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Speaker 1: The countdown is on big announcement on Monday, and we're

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Speaker 1: all very excited about it. I can't say much yet,

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Speaker 1: but I will say if you're a parent, you will

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Speaker 1: not want to miss this. We are taking a big

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Speaker 1: step forward in our mission to fight crime. If you

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Speaker 1: want to be one of the first to find out

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Speaker 1: the news, go to Nancy Grace dot com now. Sign

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Speaker 1: announcement delivered straight into your mailbox. We're giving you something

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Speaker 1: special in that email too. A said thank you for

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Speaker 1: supporting us at Crime Stories and Crime Online dot com.

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Speaker 1: Go to Nancy Grace dot com and sign up. Doesn't

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Speaker 1: cost you a thing. Believe you me and you will

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Speaker 1: be the first to hear of our announcement. Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: dot com. Please go there now. I'll be looking forward

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Speaker 1: to speaking to Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Goose Quick

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Speaker 1: police higher shot and killed his wife at their home

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Speaker 1: back in March two thousand and five. The shooting happened

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Speaker 1: a few days after the X cop failed to show

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Speaker 1: off a court on charges seem molested a tenne old

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Speaker 1: girl in Dorchester County. Neighbors reported seeing Hires leave the

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Speaker 1: house a few hours before his wife's body was found.

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Speaker 1: Hires was seeing our surveillance video with drawing hundreds of

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Speaker 1: dollars in cash at a column And County convenience store.

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Speaker 1: A t M. How can one guy elude police for

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Speaker 1: ten years, leaving behind a wake of pain, including at

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Speaker 1: least one dead body that we know of? I Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 1: this is crime Stories. Thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about none other than the evil Daniel Hires

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Speaker 1: and with me to figure it out. A panel of

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Speaker 1: all stars. Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute,

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Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, psychotherapist out of New York, and boy do

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Speaker 1: we need to shrink? Joseph Scott Morgan, death investigator, author

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Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet and professor of forensics Jacksonville

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Speaker 1: State University. High profile North Carolina lawyer Kathleen Murphy and

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Speaker 1: joining me right now from the state newspaper in Columbia,

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Speaker 1: South Carolina. Travis Bland Travis, why tell me? Do you

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Speaker 1: know what? Start at the beginning? He was born in

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Speaker 1: nineteen two, and he grew up in a town called

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Speaker 1: Hampton or Hampton County, which is just on the edge

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Speaker 1: of South Carolina's Low country. Boy, you are starting at

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Speaker 1: the beginning. Hold on, don't you want to go back

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Speaker 1: to Jest station. That would be nine months before for

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Speaker 1: Pete's like, okay, go ahead, I want to hear the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. Okay, So coming up in Hampton County, Heavy County,

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Speaker 1: the place known for its watermelon festival actually, and as

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Speaker 1: he grew up he became kind of an athletic fellow.

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Speaker 1: According to the U. S. Marshals, he was into physical fitness.

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Speaker 1: And I read one reporter's into basketball and one things

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Speaker 1: he got into was karate. Well, Travis Travis, Travis, Travis.

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Speaker 1: Hold on, you know what, we may all be experts

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Speaker 1: in our field, but we still want to hear the story.

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Speaker 1: Don't make me drink from the fire hydrant. You're going

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Speaker 1: too fast. And for another thing, right there, Cheryl McCollum.

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Speaker 1: The other day, I was at John David's soccer game

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Speaker 1: and I saw one of the coaches all bulked up.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, David Lynch, don't let me catch you five

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Speaker 1: hours in the gym. Not that there's any threat of that,

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Speaker 1: but when I see a guy all bulked up. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: why is he spending so much time in the gym

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Speaker 1: instead of his like forty minute run for his heart.

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Speaker 1: I don't like that right there, Okay, because he needs

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Speaker 1: to be at work supporting his family, not being a

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Speaker 1: gym rat. I agree completely. But Nancy, I'll tell you

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Speaker 1: that's another way they might be catch you. Those types

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Speaker 1: of habits and hobbies they will not give up. Well,

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Speaker 1: I just wonder if there's any steroid use. But I'm

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Speaker 1: far far ahead of Travis Bland, reporter for the state newspaper,

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Speaker 1: who was I believe you had just gotten out of

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Speaker 1: his gestational period in his mother's room, So go ahead. Yes, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that happens as he

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Speaker 1: grows up, as he becomes a cop in his early twenties,

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Speaker 1: he gives a career in law enforcement. Um, and he's

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Speaker 1: a cop. From the early nineties to the mid two thousand's,

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Speaker 1: he was even a school resource officer. So that's a

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Speaker 1: police officer in a school. That's what they called here

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Speaker 1: in South Carolina, I believe other places too, And and

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Speaker 1: that's in the Charleston area, and people remember him being

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Speaker 1: a school resource officer and so from all educations of

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Speaker 1: normal stand up person who wants to, you know, serve folks.

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Speaker 1: Then in two thousand and four, that's when the story

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Speaker 1: of Hires really changes. That's the year that Charleston Area

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Speaker 1: police charged him with committing a rude act on a child.

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Speaker 1: And the girl he allegedly molested was ten years old,

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Speaker 1: and she was part of a karate class that Hires

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Speaker 1: was in, and the girl's mother told the media that

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Speaker 1: at first Hired wait wait, wait, wait, Travis Travis Bland

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Speaker 1: held on, was he in the class or teaching the class?

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Speaker 1: I'm unclear on that. I believe just because of his age,

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Speaker 1: he would have to be some sort of instructor in it.

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Speaker 1: But that, okay, hold on just a moment, right there,

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Speaker 1: right there, Jessic Scott Morrigan, We've analyzed so many cases.

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Speaker 1: Why is it the karate in structure? Are the purvs?

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Speaker 1: Why is that? I mean, there's so many of them.

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Speaker 1: It's the karate instructor. Yeah. It makes me reflect back

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Speaker 1: to a case uh back in uh in South Louisiana,

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Speaker 1: which I don't know where the fellow had been extradited

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Speaker 1: from Texas. Dad was waiting by the phone book by

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Speaker 1: the phone booth in Baton Rouge and shot the guy

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Speaker 1: as soon as he got off the off the plane.

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Speaker 1: And he had been a karate instructor. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think that a lot of it. It's very it's

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Speaker 1: a very intimate kind of kind of relationship that an

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Speaker 1: individual will have with a student because they're teaching the

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Speaker 1: moves and all these sorts of things. I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: sit here and impugne to everybody that's involved in martial arts,

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Speaker 1: but there seems to be a thread there. Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'm not trying. Fact I want to. I've had the children,

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Speaker 1: both of them, John David and Lucy and karate when

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Speaker 1: we were out living in California, and I'm going to

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Speaker 1: put them back into karate. But I keep hearing about

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Speaker 1: karate instructors getting into all sorts of trouble. You're talking

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Speaker 1: about Leon Gary Pluche, who became a vigilante ist when

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Speaker 1: he shot down Jeff do Quet, the karate instructor who

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Speaker 1: allegedly molested his son. Okay, that's a whole another can

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Speaker 1: of worms. Karate instructors, forgive me everywhere, Alright, Travis, go ahead,

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Speaker 1: what happened with the ten year old girl, well according

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Speaker 1: to her mother and reporting the posting courier at the

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Speaker 1: time the girl. At first his mother thought that was

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Speaker 1: kind of odd of the girl's mother excuse me, and

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Speaker 1: befriended her. What do you mean, be friend? You know what?

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Speaker 1: Hold on, take a listen to this, Travis and I

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Speaker 1: just don't tell anyone. This is our secret. Probably like

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Speaker 1: the second week of karate class. You know, he just asked,

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Speaker 1: you know, what was what's your name? Who did you

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Speaker 1: come here with? Like, where's your mom? Dan was trusted

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Speaker 1: by the mother because he was a police officer. I

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Speaker 1: did trust him. He was brought up in the church

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Speaker 1: from a small town I mean good you know, good

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Speaker 1: Christian family. Okay, hold on, I hear a good Christian family,

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Speaker 1: a cop, a small town karate instructor. Now take a

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Speaker 1: listen to the molestation victim, Lauren Ramsey. We all got close,

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Speaker 1: and my mom felt that, you know, she can trust

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Speaker 1: him to take me to karate classes or to soccer

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Speaker 1: practice if she was working or couldn't do it. He

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Speaker 1: would pick me up in his cop car, let me

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Speaker 1: push all the lights and all the buttons and stuff.

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Speaker 1: But I did. I felt very safe because you know,

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Speaker 1: as a police officer, you're here to you know, protect

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Speaker 1: and you know served. He would sometimes try to touch

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Speaker 1: me and appropriate places, and I didn't really catch on.

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Speaker 1: I just kind of like blocked it out. I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to tell anyone. He told me that they wouldn't

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Speaker 1: believe me if I told um. He was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a police officer, They're not gonna believe. A little girl,

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Speaker 1: Leslie says her daughter met Hires in a karate class.

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Speaker 1: He showed no interest in the mother was keenly interested

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Speaker 1: in the little girl, twenty years younger than him, took

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Speaker 1: her shopping, bought her expensive gifts, drove her to karate class,

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Speaker 1: sent the little girl flowers. The mom was a single

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Speaker 1: mom and got suspicious at first, but then she grew

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Speaker 1: to trust him, even planning to designate him as the

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Speaker 1: girl's legal guardian in case of an emergency. Okay, all

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Speaker 1: that changed after she watched a video about inappropriate touching

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Speaker 1: at school and the girl told her mom Hires had

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Speaker 1: been touching her. Oh my goodness. He would take the

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Speaker 1: little girl to Walmart parking lots and similar locations to

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Speaker 1: finnel her repeatedly and make her touch him Okay, so

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Speaker 1: that's the good guy we're talking about, but it doesn't

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Speaker 1: in there now. Hires, allegedly still on the run eluding

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Speaker 1: cops for ten years, is wanted for a lot more

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Speaker 1: than that. No one in our investigation ever had a

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Speaker 1: cross word to say about Mila. She was viewed as

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Speaker 1: a hard worker, she held a job, she was trying

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Speaker 1: to get an education, and I was a good wife.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people give the impression that both Dan

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Speaker 1: and Mila were on good terms and had a happy,

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Speaker 1: loving relationship. She would state things like Dan not showing

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Speaker 1: her any attention, that she would have to initiate any

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Speaker 1: type of physical contact with him, and that his friends

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Speaker 1: would compliment her, but he would never compliment her. That's

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Speaker 1: from our friends at Crime Watch Daily. First of all,

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Speaker 1: I can tell you right now there's something way wrong

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Speaker 1: with that. Lauren Howard, new York psychotherapist. I mean, um,

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Speaker 1: you know what, if you don't feed a dog, it'll

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Speaker 1: eite next door, same thing. It's just no offense to

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Speaker 1: Travis Bland and just Scott Morgan here on the panel.

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Speaker 1: And I hope my husband is not listening, But you

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Speaker 1: know what, when your husband shows absolutely no interest in you,

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Speaker 1: whether you're interested or not at that moment. To Kathleen Murphy,

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Speaker 1: North Carolina family lawyer, I mean that's one of the

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Speaker 1: first signs of trouble. Well, Nancy, I think the real

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Speaker 1: first sign of trouble is that he met his wife

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Speaker 1: when she was fifteen and he was twenty three, and

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Speaker 1: they married two years later. That, along with the ten

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Speaker 1: year old child and some of the allegations made with

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Speaker 1: respect to his inappropriate behavior while in China, we clearly

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Speaker 1: have a sexual predator and there's something way wrong. Lauren Howard, Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, they're many marriages where there's not sexual activity

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Speaker 1: between partners, so that in and of itself is really

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Speaker 1: you know, people lie about how having sex. Um, the

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Speaker 1: fact that he didn't show any interest, it's really not

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Speaker 1: enough to be indicative of anything. But there are other

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Speaker 1: things that we've been hearing and looking at that are

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Speaker 1: so you know, doesn't matter. Um. But I would say

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Speaker 1: that ended of itself is not if it has well,

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Speaker 1: you know, Lauren, that may be the opinion of a

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Speaker 1: New York psychotherapist, but Cheryl McCollum in the real world, Um,

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Speaker 1: it's laughable. Well, not just that Nane the wife was

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Speaker 1: his victim of a homicide. But it says to me

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Speaker 1: she knew something, whether it's his computer searches, whether or

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Speaker 1: not he had child porns, whether or not she knew

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Speaker 1: of other people that allege things to her. Um, I

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Speaker 1: think she knew a lot. That to Travis Bland, reporter

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Speaker 1: for the state newspaper in Columbia, Travis, let's take it

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Speaker 1: from there. The fact that the wife actually told people

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Speaker 1: he's just out into me. Yeah, that's the reports that

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Speaker 1: I saw as well. And there was also some indications

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Speaker 1: that there was some other problems with the relationship that

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Speaker 1: her family knew about as well. Um, but I think

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Speaker 1: the bigger problems why you can't just drop a bomb

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Speaker 1: and walk away. What do you mean other problems her

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Speaker 1: family knew about? What problems well, the problems the Posting

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Speaker 1: Courier reported on them in her family said that they

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Speaker 1: knew he wasn't interested in her um physically, and that

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Speaker 1: you know, their relationship was distant. Um, that there was

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Speaker 1: issues like that, and there was some problems from the

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Speaker 1: beginning of that that her family never really wanted her

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Speaker 1: to marry Hires to begin with. The Posting Courier reported

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Speaker 1: an ex cop accused of molesting a ten year old

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Speaker 1: little girl and then murdering his wife. Has he been

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Speaker 1: arrested in China after leading the cops on a wild

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Speaker 1: goose chase. Thirteen years tim plus years on the lamb.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Daniel William Hires, Junior or former police

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Speaker 1: officer in Charleston, South Carolina, reportedly living abroad as an

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Speaker 1: English teacher. I want to go back to the murder

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Speaker 1: of his wife. Take a listen as investigators describe their murder, saying,

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Speaker 1: here's Karen Nicks from Charlotte Police and Dennis Susca from

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Speaker 1: the U. S. Marshal Service. Upon entering the bedroom, Mila

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Speaker 1: Candy seen laying in the bed um obviously dead from

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Speaker 1: a gunshot wound. It appears as if she was sleeping

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Speaker 1: and was not awake at the time when she was murdered.

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Speaker 1: A patrol officers and had already determined that there was

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Speaker 1: no firearm in the bedroom or any other part of

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Speaker 1: the residents. He visited escorts, he would frequent strip clubs,

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Speaker 1: and in fact, there are some allegations that he may

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Speaker 1: have even uh dated some other females that were in

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Speaker 1: high school age. I believe Dan Hires is a coward.

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Speaker 1: He waits until she's asleep and shoot her in the

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Speaker 1: back of the head. The bullet was of the same

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Speaker 1: caliber of a gun that Dan Hires possessed. You are

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Speaker 1: hearing from not only police, but from the U. S. Marshals.

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Speaker 1: So to me, that changes everything. Sheryl McCollum, director of

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Speaker 1: the Cold Case Research Institute. When the wife is claiming

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Speaker 1: he has no interest in hurt whatsoever, and now we

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Speaker 1: find out he's his strip clubs, ordering escorts and possibly

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Speaker 1: even dating young girls. This guy's leaving a hell of

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Speaker 1: a double life. Oh absolutely, He's not trying to hide

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Speaker 1: it because he can't. And Nancy, I guarantee you when

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Speaker 1: they start interviewing these escorts and interviewing these other folks,

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Speaker 1: he either made them dressed like a schoolgirl pretend to

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Speaker 1: be a schoolgirl. He definitely has an age range that

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Speaker 1: probably ends at about fifteen. So that's what he's If

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Speaker 1: you look at his marriage to Kathleen Murphy, family lawyer, Kathleen,

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Speaker 1: I mean he's well up in his twenties and he's

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Speaker 1: dating a fifteen year old girl right there. I mean

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Speaker 1: that waves a red flag to me. That would be

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Speaker 1: a clue. Yeah, I mean, I have a fifteen year

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Speaker 1: old daughter, as you well know. I wish somebody twenty

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Speaker 1: four would knock on my door. It would be a

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Speaker 1: different show we'd be doing. Yeah, you've been waiting to

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Speaker 1: wrack that shotgun for a long time, Cheryl McCollum. Believe me,

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Speaker 1: everybody be warned. Guys. We're talking about this guy, Daniel

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Speaker 1: William Hires. And what's so ironic is he was once

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Speaker 1: a cop, then karate instructor accused him molesting a ten

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Speaker 1: year old girl after getting the trust of her single mom.

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Speaker 1: The mom noticed he was never interested in her, but

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Speaker 1: always interested in the little girl. Then the wife ends

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Speaker 1: up dead. Travis Bland joining us special guest from the

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Speaker 1: state newspaper in Columbia. Travis, how was his wife discovered dead? Well,

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Speaker 1: his mother actually went to look for Hires after he

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Speaker 1: didn't show up to surrender and self on one station charge.

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Speaker 1: And then his mother found her shot in the head.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, so higher shoots and kills his wife.

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Speaker 1: I believe it was the actual morning he was supposed

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Speaker 1: to surrender to police on sex abuse charges. Now those

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Speaker 1: sex abuse charges, were they connected to the little girl? No?

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Speaker 1: These were different. This was a different charge from a

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Speaker 1: different police agency in the Charleston area. I believe those

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Speaker 1: charges relate to a girl who was even younger, a

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Speaker 1: nine year old girl. Opera In other reports stars Travis Bland.

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Speaker 1: Did the wife have any idea this was going on.

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Speaker 1: There's no indication that I've seen that she had any idea.

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Speaker 1: Now from what we are told, um, he goes on

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Speaker 1: the run, even though there's a reward for twenty five

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Speaker 1: tho dollars for tips leading to his capture, and according

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Speaker 1: to sources in Shanghai, a former university student in China

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Speaker 1: now in California happened to look at the U. S.

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Speaker 1: Marshal Service Most Wanted list and recognizes hires, alleging he

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Speaker 1: was an English teacher overseas that has not been verified.

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Speaker 1: That he was extremely popular, tall, handsome, not to me,

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Speaker 1: but apparently to some people, and that he tried to

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Speaker 1: court the school girls, allegedly harassing one of the girls

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Speaker 1: when she rebuffed him by sending pornographic images. Now, what's

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Speaker 1: really interesting to me, in addition to solving the crimes,

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Speaker 1: is how this guy, who is a repeat child molester

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Speaker 1: and now I believe a murderer, manages to blend in

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Speaker 1: with society, not only blend in, but gained the trust

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Speaker 1: of so many people. Take a listen to Dennis Susco

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Speaker 1: us Marshall. Dan's personality is such where he is generally

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Speaker 1: good mannered and can easily and into many different environments.

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Speaker 1: UM he comes across as being genuine and trustworthy. Dan's

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Speaker 1: double life included UH frequent trips to strip clubs, prostitutes,

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Speaker 1: escorts as well as other females that were very close

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Speaker 1: to being miners. After murdering Meal, while we believe Dan

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Speaker 1: left the residents and her red Chevy Aveo and fled

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Speaker 1: the area and then after that, the last known potential

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Speaker 1: location would have been in the state of Texas, where

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Speaker 1: his car was found abandoned in hospital parking lot. Of course,

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Speaker 1: our initial investigation UH concentrated on him possibly fleeing to Mexico.

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Speaker 1: There have been numerous leads that we have followed up

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Speaker 1: in UH, Mexico as well as other countries and to

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Speaker 1: include Canada, UH, the United Kingdom, Australia. How did Daniel

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Speaker 1: William Hires junior elude police for ten years plus around

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Speaker 1: thirteen years now listen to this. He was placed as

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Speaker 1: a social chameleon that could convince everybody he was a

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Speaker 1: straight up guy. He was put rights like putting the

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Speaker 1: fox in the hen house. At the time of his

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Speaker 1: arrest the first time before he got away, he was

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Speaker 1: a resource officer at West Ashley High School and had

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Speaker 1: been on the Charleston Police Force for six years. One

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Speaker 1: little girl he allegedly molested told the Posting Courier that

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Speaker 1: she and her daughter had met him at guess where,

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Speaker 1: a karate glass where the girl was taking classes, and

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Speaker 1: the mom thought that he was becoming a father figure

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Speaker 1: in her child's life. He even let the girl play

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Speaker 1: with the lights and sirens on his patrol car, would

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Speaker 1: give her rides all over town, and she was totally

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Speaker 1: naive giving him complete access to her daughter. But that's

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Speaker 1: the tip of the iceberg. There is a murder. To

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Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, director of the Cold Case Research Institute, give

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Speaker 1: me your expertise in analyzing the actual murder and the

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Speaker 1: murder scene. She's asleep, so she's zero threat to him.

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Speaker 1: They're not fighting, she's not trying to harm him in

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Speaker 1: any way. He needs her dad for what purpose? If

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Speaker 1: he was going to get in the car and flee

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Speaker 1: the us marshalls haven't found it. How was she gonna

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Speaker 1: find it? He killed her because of what she knew.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna take you again. The computer searches on you know,

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Speaker 1: their home computer, his phone. She knew if her family

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Speaker 1: knew that this man was not actually attracted to her,

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Speaker 1: think of what she knew. When you keep referring to

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Speaker 1: computer searches, what do you mean exactly? Straight up? He

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Speaker 1: liked young girls. He dated and married her between fifteen

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Speaker 1: and seventeen. Once she aged out of what he found

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00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:09,119
Speaker 1: sexually attractive, he was done with her. He becomes a

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Speaker 1: school resource officer so that he has controlled over these victims.

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Speaker 1: He knows their background, whether or not their dad is

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Speaker 1: in the home. He knows who's got other problems that

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Speaker 1: might need a shoulder to cry on, so to speak.

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Speaker 1: He has access to these children without anybody overseeing him.

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Speaker 1: And then what does he do when he goes to

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Speaker 1: the karate class. He immediately starts asking them, Hey, who

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Speaker 1: brought you off here? Who's gonna pick you up? Oh?

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to take her back and forth while you're

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Speaker 1: at work. That means he knows dad gumb well, mama

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Speaker 1: is nowhere around. She's at work. I've got you by myself,

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Speaker 1: and of course she's sweet and kind and wonderful. That's

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Speaker 1: the monster he is. If he weren't those things, he

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Speaker 1: couldn't get these victims to trust him and get in

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Speaker 1: the car along with him, repeated to lure Howard, renowned

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Speaker 1: New York psychotherapist, joining us today, way in on this

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Speaker 1: pattern that is emerging. This is the you know, the

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Speaker 1: I hate to be the bleeding heart person here. This

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Speaker 1: is a very sick man and that he's a sociopath,

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Speaker 1: and this is what happened. This is the behavior to

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Speaker 1: be charming, to be engaging, to be manipulative, to pick

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Speaker 1: your victims by their vulnerability. That it's clear, this is

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Speaker 1: a clear pattern of sociopathic behavior. And it's it's evidenced

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Speaker 1: by even when he split and went away and left

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Speaker 1: the country and was not able to be found, he

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Speaker 1: was doing the same behaviors. This is a compulsion, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's an irresistible behavior. And this is you know,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately not the first time we've seen or heard of

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Speaker 1: this proclivity. And it's um. You know, you could call

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Speaker 1: him a monster and yeah, but the fact is he

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Speaker 1: is deeply, deeply ill and usually unfortunately beyond being fixed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's that is the problem. You'll hear that

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Speaker 1: from child molesters. They'll say, I am aware of the

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Speaker 1: fact that I cannot be fixed. I can only not

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Speaker 1: do it, but I can't not stop wanting to do it.

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Speaker 1: You know what is the genesis of that? That's a

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Speaker 1: much longer conversation. I could give it to you. I

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00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,800
Speaker 1: could explain to you how that the sexual imprint and

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Speaker 1: that that need occurs early on in their lives, but that,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's a subject for another day. So I

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Speaker 1: would love to hear it. I would love to hear it.

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Speaker 1: But a person's sexuality is um is imprinted on them

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Speaker 1: at a certain point in their development that is usually

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Speaker 1: way pre puberty and unconscious really to adults. For instance,

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Speaker 1: I'll give you an example. UM a person UM someone

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Speaker 1: I worked with, had a fetish for fifties lingerie. He

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Speaker 1: could not be sexually aroused unless a woman was wearing

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Speaker 1: fifties lingerie and it had to be polyester and it

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00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,520
Speaker 1: it couldn't be sat and it couldn't be it had

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00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 1: to be girdles. Girdles turned him on. Now, why is that?

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00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,880
Speaker 1: Because in his early years when he had his first

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Speaker 1: sexual awakening, and again pre puberty when he was first

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Speaker 1: turned on. And we're learning people are turned on much

401
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: earlier than we think. He saw his mother putting on

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Speaker 1: her girdle and that imprinted on him. You hear about

403
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,800
Speaker 1: people with with shoe fetishes, same thing. It's there. You know,

404
00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:41,320
Speaker 1: we all know that there are things that occur in

405
00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: our history where all of a sudden it strikes up.

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Speaker 1: You know, there's a memory. It had a profound effect

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Speaker 1: on us. And it's odd because we want to go,

408
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Speaker 1: why didn't something that happened two weeks later or that

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Speaker 1: seems more important to have a profound effect on us.

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Speaker 1: There's no no way to predict what will affect us

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Speaker 1: at what time, what the cocktail of personality and character

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Speaker 1: development is that gets affected at any given time. So

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Speaker 1: with with people with this this sickness, it's usually triggered

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00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: by their first sexual awakening. It's not just that he's

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Speaker 1: a monster or a pig or a terrible man. He's

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Speaker 1: a very, very sick, sick man. And because he's a sociopath,

417
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 1: he's able to figure out how to manifest his illness

418
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: and hide and hide literally, which is what he did well.

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Speaker 1: He apparently changed his appearance, grew a beard, gained weight

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Speaker 1: on purpose hiding out in Shanghai. Or he manages to

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00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: worm his way back into a job teaching young girls,

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00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,400
Speaker 1: immediately starting to hit on them, send them porn, make

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Speaker 1: advances on them, eluding American authorities for going on thirteen years,

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Speaker 1: leaving behind a dead body. And I hear all that

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Speaker 1: that's all the more reason not to wear girl ladies.

426
00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,440
Speaker 1: I don't know who invented that, I'm sure a man.

427
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 1: But long story, same thing for control top panty host

428
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 1: forget about it, um, But long story short, the polyester,

429
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:14,040
Speaker 1: girdle and lingerie isn't a crime victim. Ten year old

430
00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:18,360
Speaker 1: girls and a dead wife are so Joe Scott Morgan,

431
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,239
Speaker 1: I'd like you, as a death investigator and author of

432
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:26,119
Speaker 1: Blood Beneath My Feet, available on Amazon. Plug plug for

433
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: Joe Scott Morgan. Joe Scott, please analyze the crime scene

434
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 1: as Cheryl McCullum did and advised me your take on

435
00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: the murder scene. Well, you know, Cheryl had painted this

436
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 1: picture of the wife in a completely vulnerable position. Uh.

437
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:49,919
Speaker 1: Police had mentioned earlier that that she appeared uh to

438
00:26:50,119 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 1: have been sleeping. Now he advanced on her and she

439
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,679
Speaker 1: This was not even made, uh to look like a suicide.

440
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: Remember what they said, Uh, there was a round a

441
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 1: bullet that was recovered at the scene that was consistent

442
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,880
Speaker 1: with one of his weapons that he owned. So it

443
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:12,400
Speaker 1: wasn't the weapon was not found in proximity to him.

444
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: But apparently they found, uh found something to compare this

445
00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: with that would put that weapon into his possession. She

446
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 1: was shot in the back of the head, So this

447
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,359
Speaker 1: is not like he attempted to make this look like

448
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,200
Speaker 1: a suicide or anything like this. She's shot. She's literally

449
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,080
Speaker 1: executed in the bed. This is my hope and and

450
00:27:31,359 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: one of the things that I teach my students at

451
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,120
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State. Look, when you were processing a scene, you

452
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 1: have no idea, you have no idea how long it's

453
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: going to take this case to come around. You have

454
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,199
Speaker 1: to do the best job that you possibly can in

455
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 1: process in the scene. In this particular case, we've got

456
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 1: a guy that is over a decade down range from

457
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: the event. My hope is that the police in this

458
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: particular community worked this case very very carefully. They collected

459
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: every bit of this evidence. So whenever this guy does

460
00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,440
Speaker 1: in fact make it back to the United States, which

461
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,720
Speaker 1: I think is gonna take a while. Um that they

462
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: are able to present this thing in court. Bring all

463
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 1: this evidence forward, because it's gonna be critical in telling

464
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 1: the story about this gentleman. Well, you may wonder did

465
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: the wife know about all the child? Month station will

466
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: take this into account. Hires met his very young teen bride,

467
00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: Lamelia Rojo, also known as Mila, during a cruise to Miami.

468
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:34,560
Speaker 1: He was twenty two, She had just turned fifteen and

469
00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: was a native of Brazil. She was shy, she was skinny.

470
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:43,000
Speaker 1: She had been on a vacation with friends. Now hires

471
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 1: brother said Hires would visit Brazil and make nightly phone

472
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,240
Speaker 1: calls to the little girl. Mila and Mila's sister, Alessandro,

473
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: says their father opposed their quote love because of the

474
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: age difference. He begged her not to do it, but

475
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 1: finally relented. She his wife, believed it was a love

476
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:11,040
Speaker 1: story and apparently died believing that did she know or

477
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: did she not know? We will never find out because

478
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: she was murdered and he took off listen. September, Live

479
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: five News got a Facebook message along with an article

480
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 1: that stated a woman recognized Highest from a wanted poster.

481
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: She said he was a former English teacher in Shanghai.

482
00:29:29,440 --> 00:29:31,760
Speaker 1: Spokesman for the U. S. Marshal Service told us the

483
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: agency is aware of the information that they are fully

484
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 1: engaged with the international partners about the highest case. Ours

485
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: was seeing our surveillance video with drawing hundreds of dollars

486
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: in cash at a Colin and County convenience store a

487
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 1: t M. His case was featured several times in the

488
00:29:45,360 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: show America's Most Wanted Hires. Carl was found in June

489
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: two thousand and five in Laredo, Texas, near the border

490
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:54,240
Speaker 1: with Mexico. That is from our friends at w c

491
00:29:54,560 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: SCTV reporter reporter Harv Jacobs joining me right now, Yearld McCullum,

492
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: Lauren Howard, Joseph Scott Morgan, Kathleen Murphy, and from the

493
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: state newspaper Travis Bland, So, Travis, how did he get

494
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: out of the country after murdering his wife and molesting

495
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 1: a string of little girls and managed to stay on

496
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:18,400
Speaker 1: the lamp this long? Well? I heard from one source

497
00:30:18,520 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: in China that told me they were familiar with Hires

498
00:30:21,080 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: that one of the odd rumors about him in China

499
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 1: was that he had a Mexican passport that that they

500
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 1: said would be unusual. That's unconfirmed, like many things, but

501
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: that is what I've heard from one source. So he

502
00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 1: had a Mexican passport. But can you track as best

503
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 1: as you can what happened after he left his home

504
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: that day after murdering his wife, coincidentally the day he

505
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 1: was supposed to report to court on child molestation. Yeah,

506
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: as best we can tell from evidence and what investor

507
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: vaders have said, he did. He was seen at the

508
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: scene his home right around the time of the murder

509
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 1: and did go to a t M and draw money.

510
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 1: Then he went on the run. From what we can tell,

511
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: there were spottings of him in states like Colorado and

512
00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: Michigan and even Toronto. But the last place that the

513
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,800
Speaker 1: investigators that put him was a town near the border

514
00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:15,200
Speaker 1: of Mexico where they found the truck that he was driving.

515
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,719
Speaker 1: So Sheryl will call him from Mexico. How does he

516
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,280
Speaker 1: end up in Shanghai? Well, Nancy, I'll tell you what

517
00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:22,440
Speaker 1: I think. There's lots of places that you know are

518
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: not going to extra like you back to the United States.

519
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,320
Speaker 1: I believe he picked Turna because of their human trafficking market.

520
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,320
Speaker 1: They will absolutely allow you to have sex with young children.

521
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,400
Speaker 1: You know what, how Cheryl does that just roll off

522
00:31:35,440 --> 00:31:38,280
Speaker 1: your tongue like that. I mean, you just say it

523
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:40,680
Speaker 1: without even pausing. But if he here's the deal. We're

524
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,280
Speaker 1: at a point with this guy. He is what he

525
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: is what he is. He is a sexual predator that

526
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: has a preference. He could have gone to believes he

527
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: could have gone to Morocco, some fabulous, beautiful places. He

528
00:31:55,840 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: chooses the place where he can get what he won't legally.

529
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 1: But I'm gonna tell you something. There's other victims there. Oh, oh, definitely.

530
00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 1: Of course, an American court will probably never hear from

531
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,160
Speaker 1: those victims because they're in another country, and to bring

532
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 1: them in a similar transactions, uh, cops would have to

533
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: go there and track them down and bring them here.

534
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: Not gonna happen. We know that Hires allegedly shoots his

535
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 1: then twenty four year old Brazilian wife in the back

536
00:32:26,360 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 1: of the head at close range that morning as she slept.

537
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: The evidence will be found in the bed and most

538
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 1: likely sear marks or burn marks from a close range

539
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: firing on her scalp. It looks like um, the skin

540
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 1: has been burned. Now hires own mother, Linda goes to

541
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:55,040
Speaker 1: their home after hires, his lawyer calls her looking for him,

542
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:58,280
Speaker 1: but she couldn't stand to open the master bedroom door

543
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 1: and ask for a neighbor's hell. She must have had

544
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: some sort of intuition. A neighbor went in and discovered

545
00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:11,120
Speaker 1: the wife, Mila dead. That was in the afternoon. We

546
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 1: know this. We know he was last seening around two

547
00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:17,640
Speaker 1: o'clock that day, driving off in Mila's read two thousand

548
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: five Chevy of Ajo. It was found three months later

549
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: in the Mexican border town of Laredo, Texas. And that

550
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: is why we believe he first went to Mexico. Now,

551
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:35,440
Speaker 1: days after he was spotted on surveillance cameras withdrawing lots

552
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:38,440
Speaker 1: of money from a T M S at a Colton

553
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 1: County convenience store about fifty miles from his home. What

554
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: happened next years pass cops chased down reports of possible

555
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 1: sightings and places like Colorado Springs, Toronto. As you heard,

556
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: he was on America's Most Wanted, clearly leading a double life. Now.

557
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: Dennis Usco with Deputy U. S. Marshal, said that he

558
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,959
Speaker 1: was in strip clubs visiting prostitutes. In fact, there are

559
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:11,760
Speaker 1: allegations he may have even dated other girls in high school.

560
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: He's six ft three, two pounds, blue eyes, blonde hair,

561
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: with eleven years of police experience. He's trained in karate

562
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: and other martial arts and is obsessed with obtaining a

563
00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 1: high level of fitness now. He speaks in a very

564
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: clearly high pitched Southern accent. He loves basketball, plays piano.

565
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: Those are some of the things we know about him.

566
00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:47,360
Speaker 1: So how will those things help us find him? Cheryl McCollum.

567
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: He won't stop his habit again. He's working out somewhere.

568
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: He's developing even more on his martial art ability um, somewhere,

569
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: he's practicing, I'm telling you. And the reason you keep

570
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 1: asking why these klady people, why was this with militation

571
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 1: or whatever. They legitimately learned to control people without a

572
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: whole lot of movements. They learn how to grab the

573
00:35:14,080 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 1: rest and hold you and subdue their victims without punching,

574
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: without much aggression. So again, he could walk down the

575
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: hall and have control with somebody, and it just looks

576
00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 1: like he's walking with someone to Travis Bland, reporter joining

577
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 1: us from the state newspaper They're are reports he has

578
00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 1: been captured, but authorities will not confirm that for us.

579
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,760
Speaker 1: What do you know, Yeah, I have sources in China

580
00:35:37,920 --> 00:35:40,879
Speaker 1: tell me that they know of him and they've heard

581
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 1: that he is captured. The U. S. Marshal Service and

582
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 1: local law enforcements here in South Carolina are not confirming that.

583
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: They're saying that they know of reports of his capture,

584
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: but that he hasn't They haven't confirmed his capture yet,

585
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 1: and of the U. S. Marshal Service says they're working

586
00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 1: with their international partners on the case. What we know

587
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: is that a spokesperson from the U. S. Martial Service

588
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:08,239
Speaker 1: says he's in custody in China, but we can't get

589
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: confirmation whether that's true or not. So, Kathleen Murphy family lawyer,

590
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:19,399
Speaker 1: If he is in custody in China, what happens now, Well,

591
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:22,239
Speaker 1: that will go through the process of potentially bringing him

592
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:25,879
Speaker 1: back to the United States to face these charges. And

593
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: I don't know what the process will be in China,

594
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,680
Speaker 1: but I do expect that he is going to answer

595
00:36:31,719 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: to these charges at some point. I've researched it and

596
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: have discovered that China does not have an extradition treaty

597
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: with the US, So this is going to be a

598
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 1: legal nightmare. It would seem to me to you, Cheryl McCollum,

599
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 1: that China can't wait to get rid of and can't

600
00:36:52,400 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: get rid of him fast enough, that he's allegedly been

601
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 1: molesting girls there. It maybe Nancy, but they also may

602
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 1: want to keep him there and force him to answer

603
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,799
Speaker 1: to those allegations and not just let him leave. Those

604
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,520
Speaker 1: victims deserve justice and for him to be sentenced there

605
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: as well. Well this I know. There aren't many families

606
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:14,240
Speaker 1: anxiously awaiting Daniel Hires return to the u S, specifically

607
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: the Brazilian family of his child bride. Take a listen

608
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: to Karen Nicks. When Mila found out that there were

609
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:27,319
Speaker 1: allegations for m ludact on a minor against him, she

610
00:37:27,440 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 1: supported her husband. She didn't want to believe it. Mila

611
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: had no idea what Dan had in store, that her

612
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,600
Speaker 1: ultimate fate would be her being murdered by her husband

613
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:42,759
Speaker 1: and his darkest hour she supported him, and in her

614
00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,080
Speaker 1: darkest hour he killed her. Daniel Hires, you can run,

615
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,120
Speaker 1: but you can't hide. The long arm of the law

616
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,320
Speaker 1: is coming after you, buddy. Nancy Grace Crime Stories, signing

617
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 1: off goodbye friend,