WEBVTT - Captain America: The First Avenger

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<v Speaker 1>On the Bechdelcast, the questions asked if movies have women

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<v Speaker 1>and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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<v Speaker 1>or do they have individualism? It's the patriarchy, Ephyn best

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<v Speaker 1>start changing it with the Bechdel Cast.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, Caitlin, yes, Jamie, do you want to go to

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<v Speaker 2>a dance?

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<v Speaker 3>Yes? I do. I've never danced with a woman before,

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<v Speaker 3>though I don't know how to do it.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe because you're Chris Evans head on Jeremy Strong's body.

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<v Speaker 2>That's kind of my things difficult. Did you see that

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<v Speaker 2>Jeremy Strong was almost the body double no for yes, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>for short King Steve Rogers. They almost composited Chris Evans

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<v Speaker 2>first of all, very large seven foot tall man head

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<v Speaker 2>onto Jeremy Strong's live body, and that would have been historic.

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<v Speaker 3>Is Jeremy Strong small? He is?

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<v Speaker 2>He's Jeremy small, I think, and by small, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>I think five to seven. Because I did. I went

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<v Speaker 2>so deep on the body double here because it looked

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<v Speaker 2>so like the most too. There's I mean, the most

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eleven thing about this to me, because the military

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<v Speaker 2>industrial complex is timeless.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, of course, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Most twenty eleven thing to me is a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>the graphics, and specifically Steve Rogers one point. Oh, I

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<v Speaker 2>could not. I could not. Every time you see him

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<v Speaker 2>from a new angle, you're like, who is this?

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<v Speaker 3>It's really bizarre to look at Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>It cracked me up. Let's see how tall Jeremy Strong

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<v Speaker 2>is and then add one inch because I think that

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<v Speaker 2>that's usually how that works with celebrity heights. Sure, sure,

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<v Speaker 2>he's five to ten, so let's say five eight five Okay, right,

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, and then and then Chris Evans is I

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<v Speaker 2>don't even god knows four hundred feet tall. No, he's

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<v Speaker 2>six feet Oh you're telling me, Chris Evans that I

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<v Speaker 2>don't understand. I know that the body double they went

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<v Speaker 2>with not immediately like talk about men's bodies for like

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<v Speaker 2>twenty minutes. We're objectifying men. I think it's we're objectifying men.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm not short shaming anyone. If you're a long

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<v Speaker 2>time listener of the show, I love a short king.

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<v Speaker 2>But the composite looks so bizarre.

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<v Speaker 3>No, it's the effects that's the problem.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's Benjamin Button gone worse. It's so weird. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>but yes, his actual shout out to his uh to

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<v Speaker 2>not Jeremy Strong who was the body double who is

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<v Speaker 2>five to seven, and Chris Evans Giant Head.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, the body double was Leander Deeny.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who plays a bartender in one of the scenes,

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<v Speaker 2>which I have a fact I tried to get excited about,

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<v Speaker 2>but unfortunately everything about this movie is so boring. Welcome

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<v Speaker 2>to the Bechtel Cast. My name's Jamie Loftus.

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<v Speaker 3>My name is Caitlin Drante. This is our podcast where

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<v Speaker 3>we examine movies through an intersectional feminist lens, using the

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<v Speaker 3>Bechdel test simply as a jumping off point. Yes, I

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<v Speaker 3>feel like, look, if you don't know what that is,

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<v Speaker 3>listen to another episode, look it up. Oh, there's just

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<v Speaker 3>so much to get into today coming in to.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, and also, I mean, let's just get it away,

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<v Speaker 2>get it done. At the top, this movie doesn't pass

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<v Speaker 2>the Bechdel test, so it's not even really that's not

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<v Speaker 2>really what our show is about. And if you came

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<v Speaker 2>here to find that out, guess what grow up. To

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<v Speaker 2>no one's surprise, it does not pass the Bechdel test,

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<v Speaker 2>and I think kind of bears through that spirit throughout

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<v Speaker 2>the film. But we are talking about Captain America. The

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<v Speaker 2>first Avenger twenty eleven. The reason we're talking about that

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<v Speaker 2>quick plug is because we polled our Patreon aka Matreon

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<v Speaker 2>audience because around this time of year, although we are

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<v Speaker 2>not Fourth of July heads ourselves, for maybe obvious reasons, Helena,

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<v Speaker 2>we tend to cover a piece of either satire on

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<v Speaker 2>America or American propaganda. So we put up a list

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<v Speaker 2>of options for our matrons. I was really hoping that

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<v Speaker 2>Doctor Strangelove would pull through, but unfortunately, and Shadow to

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<v Speaker 2>our matrons, thank you so much. Five dollars a month

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<v Speaker 2>gives you access to two new episodes a month with

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<v Speaker 2>just Caitlin and me, and a back catalog of over

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<v Speaker 2>two hundred episodes. Wow. And the amazing thing about our

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<v Speaker 2>matrons and I totally understand, is that they will often

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<v Speaker 2>vote for a movie they know we will hate and

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<v Speaker 2>have a lot to say about, which I suspect is

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<v Speaker 2>why we are today talking about Captain America the first Avenger.

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<v Speaker 3>Because I mean, this poll was chaos, second chaos, It

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<v Speaker 3>was chaos. We put up five movies, but originally we

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<v Speaker 3>were going to do an American tale, but neither of

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<v Speaker 3>us could get through it, so we were like, never mind,

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<v Speaker 3>pass maybe another time.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, we just did Land Before Time, and we're just like,

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<v Speaker 2>I think we've hit our Don Blue quota.

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<v Speaker 3>For the year. Yeah, see you next year, Don exactly.

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<v Speaker 3>So among the five movies that we posted were Captain America,

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<v Speaker 3>which obviously won the poll, which is why we're doing

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<v Speaker 3>it today. But then there was also Team America World Police,

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<v Speaker 3>and that was strange we were rooting for and that

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<v Speaker 3>I was rooting for Doctor Strangelove. I would have also

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<v Speaker 3>been very happy doing Doctor Strangelove. All three of these

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<v Speaker 3>movies came within a few votes of each other. It

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<v Speaker 3>was the closest race for first place on the Matreon

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<v Speaker 3>I think I've ever seen.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna call it for next year.

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<v Speaker 2>We're well, I mean even we could do it on

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<v Speaker 2>the Matreon if we wanted, We could just do those

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<v Speaker 2>two next year. True, but I do think unfortunately, while

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<v Speaker 2>it's the movie I was least excited about, it is. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I think the reasons that I'm not excited about it

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<v Speaker 2>are also what make it interesting for discussion. True, because

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<v Speaker 2>this is fairly early in the what would become a

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<v Speaker 2>very painful for many decade of Marvel release after Marvel

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<v Speaker 2>release that has only in the last I think like

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<v Speaker 2>three years, stopped paying dividends for the Disney Corporation. So

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<v Speaker 2>before we get into this, I mean, we're gonna be

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<v Speaker 2>talking a lot about American propaganda and American symbols. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>which is something that because it's also Hot Dog season,

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<v Speaker 2>has been heavily on my mind recently because I keep

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<v Speaker 2>getting emails about it. But the thing I just wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to make note of before we start, because we talk

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<v Speaker 2>about the show on the show often, you know that

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<v Speaker 2>things that I'm assuming most of our listeners kind of

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<v Speaker 2>share our views on, which is that America is a failed,

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<v Speaker 2>violent colonial experiment that gets kind of worse by the day,

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<v Speaker 2>and we talk about myriad reasons as to why that is.

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<v Speaker 2>But a story that has been on my mind a

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<v Speaker 2>lot this last week and is one that if you're

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<v Speaker 2>not familiar with it or you haven't seen it coming

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<v Speaker 2>up in your feed, I would highly encourage you to

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<v Speaker 2>get to know more about is the Prairie Land Defendants.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it is like a story that is starting

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<v Speaker 2>to be discussed more, but is you know, very indicative

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<v Speaker 2>of where we're at right now. So when we're talking

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<v Speaker 2>about captain America. We're talking about what does America mean

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<v Speaker 2>right now? It means this, which is protesters anti ice

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<v Speaker 2>protesters specifically who were protesting last fourth of July. A

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<v Speaker 2>handful of them have been given essentially anywhere ranging from

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years to life one hundred years in prison for

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<v Speaker 2>anything ranging from protesting and resisting police violence to literally

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<v Speaker 2>just making a leftist zine. That is so chilling to me.

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<v Speaker 2>There is a defendant, Elizabeth Sodo, who was sentenced to

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<v Speaker 2>thirty years in prison for a protest she didn't even attend,

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<v Speaker 2>for making an anarchist zine. The FBI rated her and

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<v Speaker 2>her husband's home finding finding as you can imagine, literally nothing,

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<v Speaker 2>including a zine that was like an ari Aster fan

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<v Speaker 2>zine and poetry, you know, just things that you know,

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<v Speaker 2>someone who has this literature or you do. It is

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<v Speaker 2>you know, been explicitly said in their sentencing that this

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<v Speaker 2>is being done to make an example of protesters. It

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<v Speaker 2>is an attempt to reclassify any level of resistance. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not even talking about particularly radical resistance, any level of

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<v Speaker 2>resistance as an act of terrorism, and of course you know,

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<v Speaker 2>classifying Antifa as terrorists. Bear that out if you are

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<v Speaker 2>sentencing anti fascists to life in prison. What does that

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<v Speaker 2>make you? All things that I know most of our

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<v Speaker 2>listeners are are well aware of and fairly engaged with.

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<v Speaker 2>But yes, because we're talking American propaganda today, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>is this the direct result of Captain America. No, but

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<v Speaker 2>it's asking the question what ideals is Captain America holding up?

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<v Speaker 2>And that changes with time, but I don't think it

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<v Speaker 2>necessarily gets better. So that's my little soap box for

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<v Speaker 2>this week. We'll leave a link to more information. There's

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<v Speaker 2>some great reporting from Lex mcmahnimon in The Guardian about

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<v Speaker 2>this big fan of their work, highly recommend you check

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<v Speaker 2>their work out. And yes, there's so much more I

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<v Speaker 2>could say, but I will just leave it at that. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>and well that's Captain America.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's do it. Thank you for sharing all of that. Jamie.

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<v Speaker 3>It's real bleak out there and the irony that like

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<v Speaker 3>this movie is all about. Well, we have to fight

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<v Speaker 3>the Nazis, we have to fight fascism. Forgetting that the

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<v Speaker 3>US has always been a fascist country.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean I don't think it's forgetting, omitting.

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<v Speaker 3>Omitting, refusing to acknowledge.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, I mean that's It's so tricky because it's like, yeah, hard,

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<v Speaker 2>hard to argue with a character who is you know,

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<v Speaker 2>whose original idea was what if Hitler got punched in

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<v Speaker 2>the face And you're like, Okay, I'm listening, Okay, I'm listening. Great,

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<v Speaker 2>great idea, but there's a lot going on.

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<v Speaker 3>We'll get into it, Yes, we'll get into it. But Jamie,

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<v Speaker 3>what is your relationship with Captain America? The first Avenger

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<v Speaker 3>slash boy Captain America? In general?

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<v Speaker 2>I think I saw this in theaters. I honestly am

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<v Speaker 2>not sure. I was trying to go through this with

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<v Speaker 2>Grant last night. Like my Marvel history is so all

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<v Speaker 2>over the place. Most of the movies I have seen

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<v Speaker 2>in the Marvel universe were watching them for the Bechdel cast.

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<v Speaker 2>But I do think this was early enough in the

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<v Speaker 2>Marvel run that this felt like intriguing enough to give

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<v Speaker 2>a shot, or like maybe I was just bored because

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<v Speaker 2>it came out in this summer. I vaguely remember this

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<v Speaker 2>coming out. I think I saw it, I did not

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<v Speaker 2>really retain any of it, and I certainly did not

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<v Speaker 2>return for any of the sequels. So yeah, I mean

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<v Speaker 2>this truly, like outside of even if we're like stepping

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<v Speaker 2>back from the like propaganda element of it because you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I saw Superman last year. I yeah, I will, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>if it seems interesting, I will check it out.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think that movie had some interesting things to say.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that that movie was saying something. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's like it in a blockbuster. It's only ever gonna

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<v Speaker 2>say so much. But I'm like, I'm willing to take

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<v Speaker 2>the journey. But even outside of that, I just like,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the exact kind of movie that is just

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<v Speaker 2>like for me, my eyes are just gonna absolutely glaze.

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<v Speaker 2>So I apologize if there's plot point in this movie

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm like, uh what, because I just found it

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<v Speaker 2>so hard to pay attention to. It's like, yeah, just

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<v Speaker 2>not for me. With all due respect, I know that

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of people have like nostalgia for this movie.

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<v Speaker 2>It seems like one of the I mean, it's definitely

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<v Speaker 2>less boring than the Marvel movies that were coming out

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<v Speaker 2>ten years after this, But that is like a very

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<v Speaker 2>low bar to clear. Sure, yeah I didn't Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 2>didn't like it, but but now I've seen it at

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<v Speaker 2>least once, but maybe maybe also maybe more, I will say,

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<v Speaker 2>you know what, Hugo Weaving ripping his face off. Oh

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<v Speaker 2>my gosh, that woke me back up. I kept, I kept,

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<v Speaker 2>I tried to. I truly, I've I've watched this movie

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<v Speaker 2>at night. I watched it in the morning. I tried

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<v Speaker 2>it in the afternoon. Nothing could keep me awake. But

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<v Speaker 2>Hugo Weaving taking his face off.

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<v Speaker 3>That got me.

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<v Speaker 2>That got my ass.

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<v Speaker 3>Hugo Weaving ripping his face off and turning into Hugo

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<v Speaker 3>Weaving with red skull makeup on was really shocking. I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't remember that happening. I had seen this movie before,

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<v Speaker 3>but I similarly kind of didn't remember anything about it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's also like, even if you liked this movie when

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<v Speaker 2>it came out, there were just so many movies that

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<v Speaker 2>at some point they have to start blurring. I forgot

0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:10.839
<v Speaker 2>vegas of Aastian stan.

0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:13.800
<v Speaker 3>Is in this Yeah, yeah, he's he's a guy. He's

0:13:13.840 --> 0:13:16.040
<v Speaker 3>becomes a pretty big part of the MCU.

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:18.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I knew that. I just didn't know he went

0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:21.679
<v Speaker 2>back to like the beginning. Yeah, I did not know

0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:24.400
<v Speaker 2>that Stanley Tucci was a part of the MCU for

0:13:24.440 --> 0:13:28.720
<v Speaker 2>fifteen minutes. That was news to me. I also this era,

0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm very glad Stanley Tucci moved on from this era

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:34.560
<v Speaker 2>of like I feel like in the like late twenty

0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.599
<v Speaker 2>early twenty tens, he's like, what if I looked a

0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:39.600
<v Speaker 2>little scruffy, And I'm like, that's not that's not where

0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:44.880
<v Speaker 2>he succeeds. I feel like this aesthetic for him, the

0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.840
<v Speaker 2>lovely Bones character, don't even get me started. I'm like,

0:13:49.440 --> 0:13:52.520
<v Speaker 2>Stanley Tucci, I need you to play a lovely man.

0:13:52.679 --> 0:13:56.360
<v Speaker 2>I need you to give me Julie and Julia Devilwar's prana.

0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:57.760
<v Speaker 2>That's where you live for me.

0:13:58.360 --> 0:14:02.600
<v Speaker 3>I agree, Yeah, yeah, I did not remember his presence

0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.640
<v Speaker 3>in this movie, so I guess. Yeah. My history with

0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.440
<v Speaker 3>it is I didn't see it in theaters. I would

0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:12.120
<v Speaker 3>go on to see most MCU movies in theaters, but

0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 3>because this was one of the earlier ones, and it

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.280
<v Speaker 3>was before I even realized that they were building out

0:14:18.400 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 3>a cinematic universe. Sure, I had no interest in Captain

0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:27.880
<v Speaker 3>America as a character as a superhero. I was like,

0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.640
<v Speaker 3>what the fuck is this? I don't care. I think

0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:37.320
<v Speaker 3>conceptually Captain America is the worst, most boring Marvel hero.

0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:42.440
<v Speaker 2>I yeah, I've done some I will say, light research

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.200
<v Speaker 2>on his history, and I feel like it's the same

0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 2>reason that it's like hard to make Superman a fun

0:14:49.280 --> 0:14:51.280
<v Speaker 2>character to watch, where it's like he's just.

0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 3>I agree to.

0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:56.360
<v Speaker 2>Like, he's just kind of featureless. I don't know, I'm

0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.120
<v Speaker 2>who's your favorite superhero? If you're like, even if you're

0:14:59.160 --> 0:15:01.600
<v Speaker 2>like compartmentalized your politics and blah blah blah, who's your

0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 2>I'm still I'm still missus spider Man.

0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:09.360
<v Speaker 3>I'm big on spider Man as well. I enjoy Batman

0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:12.560
<v Speaker 3>in some of the movies. Okay, I mean I have

0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:15.680
<v Speaker 3>two superhero movie tattoos. One of them is from Batman

0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:19.320
<v Speaker 3>Returns and one of them is a Spider Verse movie.

0:15:19.360 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 3>So I'm not like I like a superhero movie. I've

0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.560
<v Speaker 3>always been like a you know, big action movie head.

0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.600
<v Speaker 3>I don't have the same affinity for the MCU as

0:15:30.120 --> 0:15:33.080
<v Speaker 3>many people do, but I've seen almost all of them.

0:15:33.480 --> 0:15:36.840
<v Speaker 3>I see most of them in theaters, with a few

0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:41.480
<v Speaker 3>exceptions for boycott reasons that I'll go into later. But yeah, yeah,

0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:47.040
<v Speaker 3>I have engaged lightly with the MCU. But when this

0:15:47.160 --> 0:15:51.520
<v Speaker 3>movie came out, I was just like Captain America, who Pass?

0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.240
<v Speaker 3>So I didn't see it until I don't know, maybe

0:15:54.240 --> 0:15:57.960
<v Speaker 3>four or five years later, because by then there were

0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:01.480
<v Speaker 3>other like the MCU starting to really be built out.

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:04.080
<v Speaker 3>So I was like, Okay, I guess if I want

0:16:04.080 --> 0:16:07.720
<v Speaker 3>to remain culturally relevant, I have to see these movies.

0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.320
<v Speaker 3>So I started to go back and watch the ones

0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 3>I hadn't seen before. But anyway, that was the only

0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.920
<v Speaker 3>other time I had seen this. I had seen this movie,

0:16:16.480 --> 0:16:19.600
<v Speaker 3>So it's been about a decade or more since I've

0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:24.920
<v Speaker 3>watched it. I forgot most things about it, okay, And

0:16:26.120 --> 0:16:29.800
<v Speaker 3>there was a lot that I didn't realize would be

0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.800
<v Speaker 3>present that we would have to discuss on this episode.

0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.440
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it is. It is a pretty intense one, and

0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess for listeners that are expecting a complete, full

0:16:42.120 --> 0:16:44.840
<v Speaker 2>deep dive on Captain America, we're doing this episode on

0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:48.440
<v Speaker 2>a fairly quick turnaround due to the poll of it all,

0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.080
<v Speaker 2>so we won't get into everything. But I think that

0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.280
<v Speaker 2>for listeners of the show that sort of want our

0:16:53.760 --> 0:16:57.560
<v Speaker 2>take on how this presents America an American propaganda, we

0:16:57.640 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 2>hope you will leave satisfied. Yeah, I feel like you

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.440
<v Speaker 2>could write a whole thesis on I mean, there's so

0:17:03.680 --> 0:17:06.800
<v Speaker 2>there's so many books about Captain America. I think a

0:17:06.840 --> 0:17:09.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of like if if I thought you were more

0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.600
<v Speaker 2>interesting might be interesting to me, But I mean I

0:17:13.640 --> 0:17:17.920
<v Speaker 2>am very interested in you know whatever, like American symbolism

0:17:18.040 --> 0:17:22.800
<v Speaker 2>and selling, you know how basically the how colonial products

0:17:22.800 --> 0:17:27.439
<v Speaker 2>are are sold back to people, and Captain America is

0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:30.520
<v Speaker 2>a part of that. I just it's not one that

0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:33.959
<v Speaker 2>was ever designed to work for me, right, but but

0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:36.720
<v Speaker 2>let's let's get into it. Let's get into it because

0:17:36.760 --> 0:17:39.960
<v Speaker 2>this movie was, while not as financially successful as I

0:17:40.000 --> 0:17:44.359
<v Speaker 2>would have expected for something that became so big, definitely

0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:50.119
<v Speaker 2>has a massive cultural impact, specifically this version of the character.

0:17:50.240 --> 0:17:52.639
<v Speaker 2>Because there are many versions of the character, some of

0:17:52.680 --> 0:17:57.240
<v Speaker 2>which have more complexity than others. This one, you know,

0:17:57.440 --> 0:18:02.000
<v Speaker 2>they have the cooperation of the Pentagon, so yeah, you know,

0:18:02.160 --> 0:18:04.320
<v Speaker 2>don't well, I mean we've talked about that many times,

0:18:04.400 --> 0:18:08.000
<v Speaker 2>but very relevant to today. So let's get into it.

0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.719
<v Speaker 3>Yes, let's take a quick break first, and then we'll

0:18:10.760 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 3>come back for the recap. And we're back, Okay. Here

0:18:24.080 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 3>is the story of Captain America, the First Avenger. We

0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:35.400
<v Speaker 3>open on present day, somewhere in the Arctic question mark, sure,

0:18:35.840 --> 0:18:41.800
<v Speaker 3>a strange ship or something has been discovered. It's lodged

0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:47.960
<v Speaker 3>in the ice, and inside some guys discover Captain America's

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:53.800
<v Speaker 3>famous shield. Then we smash cut to Norway nineteen forty two.

0:18:54.520 --> 0:18:58.639
<v Speaker 3>We meet Johann Schmidt played by Hugo Weaving. He is

0:18:58.800 --> 0:19:04.920
<v Speaker 3>an SS officer and head of Hydra, the rogue science

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 3>division of the Nazi Party, and he busts into some

0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:15.639
<v Speaker 3>kind of fortress and steals the tests erect, which becomes

0:19:15.960 --> 0:19:18.399
<v Speaker 3>very relevant in other MCU movies.

0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.760
<v Speaker 2>I can't even with the test arract. I honestly like

0:19:21.800 --> 0:19:24.359
<v Speaker 2>the second he opened a box, like because at first

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:26.920
<v Speaker 2>it's it's kind of engaging, it's kind of fine, and

0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:31.760
<v Speaker 2>for me, the second the box is open and it's

0:19:31.760 --> 0:19:34.720
<v Speaker 2>a glowy blue thing, You're like, and this is where

0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:38.280
<v Speaker 2>the movie will leave me and never get me back

0:19:38.600 --> 0:19:41.280
<v Speaker 2>because I just hate it. Oh my god. I mix

0:19:41.400 --> 0:19:44.440
<v Speaker 2>up the tests eract, which I'm vaguely aware of, because

0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.560
<v Speaker 2>doesn't that remain like a thing the whole time?

0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.320
<v Speaker 3>Pretty much? They keep like losing it and needing to

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.800
<v Speaker 3>go back and find it or something I've done.

0:19:53.840 --> 0:19:57.199
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I remember that it's like relevant at least in

0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.520
<v Speaker 2>other ones that I've seen, or it's I'm pretty sure

0:20:00.520 --> 0:20:05.280
<v Speaker 2>it's in Captain Marvel maybe. Anyways, I don't know. Anyways,

0:20:05.320 --> 0:20:08.840
<v Speaker 2>I always confuse it with the avatar version of it,

0:20:08.880 --> 0:20:14.320
<v Speaker 2>which is an obtainium. Oh their secret goo. Anytime there's

0:20:14.359 --> 0:20:17.480
<v Speaker 2>like a secret goo, I'm just like, ah, yeah, yeah,

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.360
<v Speaker 2>you are reminded that ultimately, and this isn't even necessarily

0:20:21.440 --> 0:20:24.240
<v Speaker 2>like a fault of the storytelling, but it's like, ultimately,

0:20:24.280 --> 0:20:27.600
<v Speaker 2>these stories are written for children, and that's why there's

0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:30.919
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of mysterious goos, and I just cannot be

0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:32.560
<v Speaker 2>convinced to take them seriously.

0:20:33.119 --> 0:20:36.080
<v Speaker 3>Look, I don't mind a secret goo. In fact, I

0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:38.280
<v Speaker 3>might even go so far as to say I like

0:20:38.320 --> 0:20:39.160
<v Speaker 3>a secret goo.

0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm more of an ooze girl. I'm personally no, this

0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:47.600
<v Speaker 2>is yeah, the plot goo. I just I just I

0:20:47.600 --> 0:20:50.600
<v Speaker 2>can't do it. But sure, that's okay, that's okay.

0:20:50.920 --> 0:20:54.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. So John Schmidt comes in and steals the Tesseract.

0:20:55.400 --> 0:20:58.360
<v Speaker 3>We cut to the US. It's still nineteen forty two,

0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:02.080
<v Speaker 3>where the rest of the movie take place. We meet

0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:06.280
<v Speaker 3>Steve Rogers played by Chris Evans.

0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Sort of Evans like by Chris Evans head and Leander

0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Deni's body. I will not I promise, I will stop

0:21:15.960 --> 0:21:19.399
<v Speaker 2>harping on this, but I gasped I gasped. It was

0:21:19.480 --> 0:21:23.080
<v Speaker 2>so twenty eleven. I was trying to like piece together.

0:21:23.160 --> 0:21:25.200
<v Speaker 2>I didn't look up any behind the scenes footage because

0:21:25.240 --> 0:21:27.560
<v Speaker 2>I kind of liked my version better. Words how I

0:21:27.600 --> 0:21:31.760
<v Speaker 2>pictured they shot it. I picture first they shoot the

0:21:31.800 --> 0:21:35.679
<v Speaker 2>whole scene with Chris Evans balancing his head on a

0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:39.560
<v Speaker 2>pile of tennis balls, and then they shoot the whole

0:21:39.560 --> 0:21:42.639
<v Speaker 2>scene again with Leander Deny wearing like kind of a

0:21:42.680 --> 0:21:46.840
<v Speaker 2>gimp mask that is like covered in chroma key, and

0:21:46.880 --> 0:21:48.600
<v Speaker 2>then they're like, yeah, we'll figure it out.

0:21:49.359 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 3>I like it.

0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:52.439
<v Speaker 2>That's how they shoot it all twice, and then it

0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:55.440
<v Speaker 2>still looks horrible. I know that that's definitely not how

0:21:55.440 --> 0:21:57.280
<v Speaker 2>they did it, but it made me laugh so much

0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:01.399
<v Speaker 2>to think about Sebastianstan doing the scene horror twice, not

0:22:01.600 --> 0:22:02.959
<v Speaker 2>Sebastian Stan being horrible.

0:22:03.000 --> 0:22:05.560
<v Speaker 3>I like him, but he's in Itania for crying out loud.

0:22:05.720 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 2>He's literally in Itania, and no one talks about that enough.

0:22:09.000 --> 0:22:10.480
<v Speaker 2>It's an underrated performance.

0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:15.359
<v Speaker 3>Hmm, yeah, he is so. Anyways, Steve Rogers is trying

0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:19.159
<v Speaker 3>to enlist in the military because he really wants to

0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:24.080
<v Speaker 3>fight for his country in World War Two, but he's

0:22:24.760 --> 0:22:28.760
<v Speaker 3>scrawny and chronically ill and he can't fight for shit

0:22:28.840 --> 0:22:30.480
<v Speaker 3>because he gets in a fist fight with a guy

0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:32.680
<v Speaker 3>in an alley and gets absolutely pummeled.

0:22:33.000 --> 0:22:35.560
<v Speaker 2>He gets in a fight for being a fucking loser

0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:37.200
<v Speaker 2>at a movie there. I mean, I guess they're both

0:22:37.240 --> 0:22:41.720
<v Speaker 2>being losers, but he's just like, wait, man, America's awesome. Man.

0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:44.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, yeah, yeah, he should have had his ass kicked.

0:22:44.680 --> 0:22:47.639
<v Speaker 3>He should have had his ass kick I agree, yeah, yeah,

0:22:48.000 --> 0:22:51.600
<v Speaker 3>but anyway, Steve's best friend, Bucky Barnes played by Sebastian

0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:57.639
<v Speaker 3>stan comes to his rescue. Now, Bucky has successfully enlisted

0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:03.800
<v Speaker 3>and he gets shipped off tomorrow, while Steve Rogers has

0:23:03.920 --> 0:23:07.679
<v Speaker 3>tried five different times to enlist but keeps failing the

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:13.080
<v Speaker 3>medical physical exam. Stephen Bucky then go to like a

0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:17.800
<v Speaker 3>World's Fair science expo kind of thing hosted by.

0:23:17.880 --> 0:23:22.080
<v Speaker 2>More propaganda stuff and also very funny bad CGI. They

0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:24.280
<v Speaker 2>look like they like visit a screensaver.

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:29.679
<v Speaker 3>Yeah it looks really phony, but this event is hosted

0:23:29.760 --> 0:23:35.520
<v Speaker 3>by Stark Industries. We meet Howard Stark aka Tony Stark's father.

0:23:35.640 --> 0:23:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Who I was genuinely shocked. That's not Rammy Malick, you're

0:23:40.000 --> 0:23:40.880
<v Speaker 2>telling you, that's.

0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:44.600
<v Speaker 3>You don't recognize him as Dominic Cooper of Mama Mia Fame.

0:23:45.240 --> 0:23:46.919
<v Speaker 2>I had to be reminded and I was like, Okay,

0:23:47.040 --> 0:23:49.359
<v Speaker 2>I actually I do remember him as Dominic Cooper of

0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Mama Mia Fame. Now, I guess I don't really associate

0:23:51.640 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 2>Mama Mia with men who aren't stealing Scar's cart.

0:23:56.400 --> 0:23:59.639
<v Speaker 3>Well, Pierce Brosnan Firth erasure.

0:23:59.640 --> 0:24:03.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess if I'm ranking my Papa Pias, I'm

0:24:03.960 --> 0:24:09.359
<v Speaker 2>going stellin Pierce Colin, I think, But I forgot Dominic

0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:11.240
<v Speaker 2>Cooper's in it. But yeah, I just he looks I think.

0:24:11.280 --> 0:24:13.240
<v Speaker 2>It's also like the way I just he looks so

0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:15.320
<v Speaker 2>much like Ramy Mallagan to me in this movie.

0:24:15.400 --> 0:24:18.600
<v Speaker 3>But there's a resemblance, you know, it is not him. Yeah, Anyway,

0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:22.440
<v Speaker 3>he's there doing shit. The whole thing with Howard Stark

0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:26.560
<v Speaker 3>is that he's this brilliant mechanical engineer. But Steve isn't

0:24:26.560 --> 0:24:29.560
<v Speaker 3>paying attention to any of that. He's so distracted because

0:24:29.600 --> 0:24:32.360
<v Speaker 3>he wants to fight for his country so bad it's

0:24:32.440 --> 0:24:37.159
<v Speaker 3>consuming his every thought. And then Stanley Tucci enters the

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:41.879
<v Speaker 3>movie and overhears Steve telling Bucky about how much he

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:46.320
<v Speaker 3>wants to fight for his country, and then Stanley Tucci

0:24:46.480 --> 0:24:50.880
<v Speaker 3>approaches him. His character's name is doctor Erskine, and he

0:24:50.960 --> 0:24:56.320
<v Speaker 3>works for a special science division of the US military, and.

0:24:56.359 --> 0:25:01.360
<v Speaker 2>He wants to shoot Steve full of plot goo different

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:04.000
<v Speaker 2>plot gou not test erect well, because the test reactor

0:25:04.080 --> 0:25:04.680
<v Speaker 2>is a solid.

0:25:05.160 --> 0:25:06.360
<v Speaker 3>It's a cube.

0:25:06.560 --> 0:25:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Versus it's a little shy. It's a light bulb in

0:25:08.880 --> 0:25:09.320
<v Speaker 2>a box.

0:25:09.680 --> 0:25:14.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yes, yes it. Meanwhile, doctor Erskine has a serum

0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:17.600
<v Speaker 3>that is way more, way closer to plot goo. I

0:25:17.640 --> 0:25:20.080
<v Speaker 3>would say he has the go. Okay, he's got the

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:24.879
<v Speaker 3>he's got the go. And also he it's Stanley Tucci

0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:27.359
<v Speaker 3>doing an accent, which I also did not see coming.

0:25:27.480 --> 0:25:30.439
<v Speaker 3>Every everything about Stanley Tucci was a surprise to me.

0:25:30.640 --> 0:25:34.040
<v Speaker 3>In this movie. He's doing a German accent, as is

0:25:34.400 --> 0:25:38.320
<v Speaker 3>Hugo Weaving. Yes, and you love to see it.

0:25:39.040 --> 0:25:42.920
<v Speaker 2>I guess, I guess shrug, I guess I'm ambifalent towards it.

0:25:43.680 --> 0:25:49.040
<v Speaker 3>Right, Okay, So doctor Erskine is so impressed that Steve

0:25:49.440 --> 0:25:55.360
<v Speaker 3>is that dedicated to trying to enlist that he approves

0:25:55.600 --> 0:26:00.840
<v Speaker 3>Steve's enlistment form right. Then we cut to Hydra's secret

0:26:00.920 --> 0:26:05.639
<v Speaker 3>layer in the mountains, Schmidt and his associate, doctor Zola

0:26:05.800 --> 0:26:12.479
<v Speaker 3>played by Toby Jones, put the Tesseract through some machine

0:26:12.960 --> 0:26:16.439
<v Speaker 3>and are able to harness an incredible amount of energy

0:26:16.520 --> 0:26:19.879
<v Speaker 3>from it, which they can use to develop advanced weapons

0:26:19.960 --> 0:26:22.200
<v Speaker 3>and likely win the war.

0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:26.000
<v Speaker 2>Did this scene remind you of I Frankenstein. I couldn't

0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:28.800
<v Speaker 2>stop thinking about I Frankenstein during this scene.

0:26:29.280 --> 0:26:31.919
<v Speaker 3>Well, I haven't seen it nearly as many times as you,

0:26:32.160 --> 0:26:34.760
<v Speaker 3>so it's like not in my brain at all. But

0:26:34.800 --> 0:26:37.040
<v Speaker 3>it did remind me of the Spider Man two scene

0:26:37.040 --> 0:26:41.680
<v Speaker 3>where yes, doc Oc is like precious tritium blah blah blah,

0:26:41.720 --> 0:26:43.640
<v Speaker 3>and then he becomes doc.

0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Ok that's true. Yeah, I was thinking of the I

0:26:46.359 --> 0:26:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Frankenstein scene where where Bill Nyhey brings the rat back

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:53.520
<v Speaker 2>to life.

0:26:53.960 --> 0:26:54.440
<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:57.240
<v Speaker 2>Sure, real eye Frankenstein will remember.

0:26:58.320 --> 0:26:59.320
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, sorry about it.

0:26:59.600 --> 0:27:00.000
<v Speaker 2>That's okay.

0:27:00.359 --> 0:27:04.800
<v Speaker 3>I'm a fake fan, fake fan anyway. Okay, So cut

0:27:04.880 --> 0:27:10.000
<v Speaker 3>to Steve at basic training or something. Yeah, the commanding

0:27:10.040 --> 0:27:13.640
<v Speaker 3>officer is Tommy Lee Jones. I'm sure his character has

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:16.840
<v Speaker 3>a name, but I don't care about that. Yeah. He

0:27:17.320 --> 0:27:20.120
<v Speaker 3>says that at the end of the week they're going

0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:24.280
<v Speaker 3>to choose one man to turn into a super soldier.

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:25.320
<v Speaker 3>And we're like.

0:27:26.600 --> 0:27:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Right right by.

0:27:28.960 --> 0:27:34.679
<v Speaker 3>Also, Agent Peggy Carter played by Haley Atwell, is also there. Yes,

0:27:34.960 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 3>she supervises all of the operations for this science division.

0:27:41.920 --> 0:27:45.560
<v Speaker 3>What that means exactly, we don't know. It's so vague.

0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:50.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and again for comic book heads, we are just

0:27:50.160 --> 0:27:54.200
<v Speaker 2>covering the version of Peggy that appears in this film.

0:27:54.280 --> 0:27:57.159
<v Speaker 2>I know that she had like her own television show,

0:27:58.560 --> 0:28:02.080
<v Speaker 2>but we're just going to talk about Peggy and like

0:28:02.320 --> 0:28:05.040
<v Speaker 2>her comic conception versus this movie.

0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:10.080
<v Speaker 3>Yes. Then we get a montage of Steve and the

0:28:10.160 --> 0:28:13.560
<v Speaker 3>others training, and Steve is not good at all of

0:28:13.600 --> 0:28:16.280
<v Speaker 3>the physical things like running and push ups.

0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:19.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, he's getting bullied, even though the reason that he

0:28:19.520 --> 0:28:22.200
<v Speaker 2>says he wants to serve in the American military is

0:28:22.240 --> 0:28:25.960
<v Speaker 2>that he hates bullies. And you're just like, yeah, yeah,

0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:29.720
<v Speaker 2>maybe you are a good candidate. Grow up right.

0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:32.679
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, he is not good at all of the

0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:38.040
<v Speaker 3>physical strength and endurance tests. But what he lacks in

0:28:38.320 --> 0:28:43.320
<v Speaker 3>brute strength he makes up for in smarts and courage.

0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:47.760
<v Speaker 3>So he is the one who is selected to become

0:28:47.960 --> 0:28:54.120
<v Speaker 3>the aforementioned super soldier via this serum, a plot goo

0:28:54.720 --> 0:28:59.840
<v Speaker 3>that doctor Erskine had developed. The doctor also mentions that Schmidt,

0:29:00.440 --> 0:29:04.560
<v Speaker 3>the Hydra guy, had also taken the serum in the past,

0:29:04.800 --> 0:29:08.920
<v Speaker 3>but it was before the serum had been perfected. And

0:29:09.360 --> 0:29:13.800
<v Speaker 3>also Schmidt is evil and deranged, so there were some

0:29:13.960 --> 0:29:17.200
<v Speaker 3>side effects when he took the serum. And we'll put

0:29:17.200 --> 0:29:18.480
<v Speaker 3>a pin in that.

0:29:18.520 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 2>We'll put a pin in that. I will say. I

0:29:20.320 --> 0:29:24.320
<v Speaker 2>was like the the like visual representation of this sequence.

0:29:24.440 --> 0:29:28.000
<v Speaker 2>I was like, huh, that's like more visually interesting than

0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:30.000
<v Speaker 2>ninety percent of Marvel movies.

0:29:30.040 --> 0:29:30.160
<v Speaker 4>There.

0:29:30.160 --> 0:29:34.800
<v Speaker 2>It's like this weird montage oh okay, of Hugo weaving like,

0:29:35.440 --> 0:29:37.560
<v Speaker 2>you know, getting getting gooey.

0:29:37.960 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. I thought that was hideous to look at.

0:29:40.560 --> 0:29:43.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I don't think it was beautiful to look at,

0:29:43.520 --> 0:29:46.840
<v Speaker 2>but it wasn't like a blobby screensaver, which is how

0:29:46.880 --> 0:29:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I think of Marvel movies aesthetically, Just like a random

0:29:51.000 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 2>void where someone's screaming my father. That's most of them.

0:29:57.640 --> 0:30:02.479
<v Speaker 3>Sure, yeah, yeah, okay, So an agent Carter and Steve

0:30:02.840 --> 0:30:06.520
<v Speaker 3>head to a facility for him to have the super

0:30:06.520 --> 0:30:09.920
<v Speaker 3>Soldier serum injected into him, and maybe the two of

0:30:09.920 --> 0:30:13.400
<v Speaker 3>these characters are flirting a little bit along the way.

0:30:13.600 --> 0:30:14.120
<v Speaker 2>Wow.

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:18.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, And then when the procedure is over. Steve is

0:30:19.080 --> 0:30:25.000
<v Speaker 3>a foot taller, he's jacked, his cells are really good.

0:30:25.440 --> 0:30:30.040
<v Speaker 4>Now, I was I wish that in a in a

0:30:30.120 --> 0:30:33.720
<v Speaker 4>cooler world, in a more cronin burgie world, he should

0:30:33.720 --> 0:30:36.840
<v Speaker 4>have come out like covered in Now I'm being pro goo,

0:30:37.520 --> 0:30:39.400
<v Speaker 4>he should have come out covered in some sort of

0:30:39.480 --> 0:30:40.080
<v Speaker 4>birth goo.

0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:42.280
<v Speaker 2>He's too smooth when he comes out.

0:30:42.640 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and he's also wearing a shirt that fits him perfectly.

0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:50.200
<v Speaker 2>In spite of going in with Jeremy Strong's body. Like

0:30:50.280 --> 0:30:53.720
<v Speaker 2>it's just interesting, like it's yeah, I mean, I get

0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:56.840
<v Speaker 2>it's it's just a movie moment, but I was like, man,

0:30:57.280 --> 0:30:59.959
<v Speaker 2>he's too smooth. Give me something to give me, give

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:01.480
<v Speaker 2>me something to consider.

0:31:01.600 --> 0:31:04.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you want him to be covered in placenta or something.

0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I want to be reminded that this was an

0:31:07.000 --> 0:31:10.560
<v Speaker 2>extremely painful thing, which is sort of reference. But also

0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I thought that was very funny where he's screaming in pain.

0:31:13.160 --> 0:31:17.160
<v Speaker 2>He says no, no, it's a it okay, it okay,

0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:19.360
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, okay, cool.

0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:23.960
<v Speaker 3>Keep going. Yeah. Well, anyway, he emerges and he is

0:31:24.000 --> 0:31:26.880
<v Speaker 3>sexy as hell, and Agent Carter is like, oh the

0:31:27.200 --> 0:31:31.680
<v Speaker 3>oh buh. Yeah, but there are spies in their midst

0:31:32.000 --> 0:31:36.959
<v Speaker 3>clearly Hydra minions who Schmidt had sent to steal the

0:31:37.000 --> 0:31:39.440
<v Speaker 3>serum and murder doctor Erskine.

0:31:39.720 --> 0:31:42.680
<v Speaker 2>But it's important to remember that at this point in history,

0:31:42.840 --> 0:31:47.040
<v Speaker 2>at this consequential point in history, the Minions were in

0:31:47.080 --> 0:31:51.200
<v Speaker 2>the cave in the North Pole. The Minions. A lot

0:31:51.240 --> 0:31:53.520
<v Speaker 2>of people say, why aren't the minions in this movie?

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:56.160
<v Speaker 3>People keep asking that.

0:31:56.320 --> 0:32:00.040
<v Speaker 2>And it's because canonically they were in the cave, so

0:32:00.200 --> 0:32:03.680
<v Speaker 2>they were not involved in either world War that we

0:32:03.720 --> 0:32:04.000
<v Speaker 2>know of.

0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:06.520
<v Speaker 3>I wonder if that because they're in like either an

0:32:06.600 --> 0:32:10.280
<v Speaker 3>Arctic or Antarctic cave. I wonder, yeah, if it's near

0:32:10.600 --> 0:32:13.120
<v Speaker 3>wherever Steve Rogers ends up.

0:32:13.880 --> 0:32:16.880
<v Speaker 2>I want I do you know, I really hope for

0:32:16.920 --> 0:32:20.560
<v Speaker 2>the Minions that they that they do not. I mean,

0:32:20.560 --> 0:32:24.240
<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't fuck with Captain America. He's so boring and

0:32:24.320 --> 0:32:25.080
<v Speaker 2>he's too good.

0:32:25.440 --> 0:32:26.880
<v Speaker 3>The Minions only evil.

0:32:27.080 --> 0:32:30.000
<v Speaker 2>That's like, I mean, he's not even I don't know,

0:32:30.040 --> 0:32:33.120
<v Speaker 2>Captain America isn't even good, but he's definitely not like

0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:36.720
<v Speaker 2>Minion grade. Because the Minions they choose evil rulers, but

0:32:36.760 --> 0:32:41.080
<v Speaker 2>they also choose guys with like charisma and also just

0:32:41.120 --> 0:32:44.480
<v Speaker 2>people with charisma. Let's not forget scarlet overcoat.

0:32:46.600 --> 0:32:49.200
<v Speaker 3>Sure, anyway, do you don't You don't think that Chris

0:32:49.200 --> 0:32:52.720
<v Speaker 3>Evans has Riz as Captain America in this movie.

0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:56.080
<v Speaker 2>I think Chris Evans has Riz as a person. I

0:32:56.120 --> 0:32:58.400
<v Speaker 2>don't think he has Risk as Captain America. I find

0:32:58.400 --> 0:33:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Captain America is like un fixably boring.

0:33:01.960 --> 0:33:04.560
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So where we differ there, I guess is that

0:33:04.760 --> 0:33:08.480
<v Speaker 3>I find again, I find Captain America as a concept

0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:12.720
<v Speaker 3>really fucking boring. But I will say I generally enjoy

0:33:13.160 --> 0:33:15.960
<v Speaker 3>him in the movies that he's in, which is so

0:33:16.040 --> 0:33:18.360
<v Speaker 3>many of them interesting, not as much as I enjoy

0:33:18.480 --> 0:33:21.520
<v Speaker 3>other characters. Sure, and I do not enjoy these movies

0:33:21.560 --> 0:33:23.560
<v Speaker 3>from a Bechdel cast point of view. But if I'm

0:33:23.600 --> 0:33:27.880
<v Speaker 3>just watching them for entertainment value, I'm not having a

0:33:27.880 --> 0:33:29.240
<v Speaker 3>bad time, I think.

0:33:29.280 --> 0:33:32.720
<v Speaker 2>If I'm choosing, I mean, I think it's hard to

0:33:32.760 --> 0:33:37.840
<v Speaker 2>outdo Robert Downey Junior in charisma, and I definitely enjoy.

0:33:37.920 --> 0:33:39.720
<v Speaker 3>I enjoy Tom Holland Spider Man.

0:33:40.360 --> 0:33:42.080
<v Speaker 2>I've never seen Tom holland Spider Man.

0:33:42.360 --> 0:33:43.440
<v Speaker 3>They're quite good.

0:33:43.640 --> 0:33:45.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure he's good. I'm sure he's good. I just

0:33:45.760 --> 0:33:46.280
<v Speaker 2>haven't seen it.

0:33:46.600 --> 0:33:51.880
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, there are spies there are hydrospies, so Steve goes

0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:55.120
<v Speaker 3>after them, and because he's so strong and fast, now

0:33:55.400 --> 0:34:02.120
<v Speaker 3>he's able to defeat them. And now this science division

0:34:02.640 --> 0:34:07.600
<v Speaker 3>of the US military knows that Hydra is a big

0:34:07.800 --> 0:34:11.120
<v Speaker 3>threat to them, so they make plans to go after Hydra,

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.840
<v Speaker 3>and Steve wants to go with them, but they're like, no,

0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:21.680
<v Speaker 3>you can't because of reasons, right, So instead they have

0:34:22.000 --> 0:34:27.480
<v Speaker 3>Steve become Captain America, which is an Uncle Sam type

0:34:28.040 --> 0:34:32.960
<v Speaker 3>military recruitment figure doing propaganda films and live shows all

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 3>over the US to sell.

0:34:34.880 --> 0:34:38.160
<v Speaker 2>War bonds, which I could like, this is the point

0:34:38.200 --> 0:34:42.040
<v Speaker 2>where I'm like, Okay, I know, ultimately, just because of

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:45.880
<v Speaker 2>what this franchise becomes, that this movie isn't going to

0:34:46.080 --> 0:34:49.279
<v Speaker 2>comment on that. But it feels like, you know, in

0:34:49.320 --> 0:34:52.280
<v Speaker 2>a movie that is you know, only made possible because

0:34:52.280 --> 0:34:55.560
<v Speaker 2>of the American military, so therefore it cannot meaningfully critique

0:34:55.560 --> 0:34:59.160
<v Speaker 2>the American military. This was such an interesting opportunity to

0:34:59.239 --> 0:35:02.960
<v Speaker 2>comment on a arc and propaganda totally and and does

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:06.080
<v Speaker 2>seem to want you to think that, like it's sort

0:35:06.120 --> 0:35:10.640
<v Speaker 2>of goofy what's happening, even though twist what you're watching

0:35:10.960 --> 0:35:14.520
<v Speaker 2>is basically just the contemporary version of that. But I

0:35:14.560 --> 0:35:17.160
<v Speaker 2>was like, oh, man, like, if if this movie was

0:35:17.200 --> 0:35:20.600
<v Speaker 2>allowed to be interesting, which it just like isn't from

0:35:20.640 --> 0:35:25.240
<v Speaker 2>moment one because of who's bankrolling it. What a missed opportunity.

0:35:25.280 --> 0:35:30.000
<v Speaker 3>Totally, especially because the imagery that's presented during this sequence

0:35:30.239 --> 0:35:35.200
<v Speaker 3>is so heightened and cartoonish that it almost seems like

0:35:35.239 --> 0:35:38.640
<v Speaker 3>it would be in a political satire film.

0:35:39.080 --> 0:35:42.600
<v Speaker 2>I'm so curious on like, I don't know anything about

0:35:43.040 --> 0:35:46.799
<v Speaker 2>Joe Johnston that we haven't just like covered vaguely in

0:35:46.920 --> 0:35:49.080
<v Speaker 2>the other Joe Johnston movie we've covered, or the other

0:35:49.120 --> 0:35:51.720
<v Speaker 2>two Joe Johnston movies we've covered he did. He started

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:54.000
<v Speaker 2>with HONEYE Shrunk the Kids, Let's not Forget.

0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:56.240
<v Speaker 3>What, Oh my gosh, I forgot.

0:35:56.480 --> 0:35:59.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and and we've also covered Jumanji. I think those

0:35:59.600 --> 0:36:01.960
<v Speaker 2>are his. They're two really big movies. He also directed

0:36:02.000 --> 0:36:04.160
<v Speaker 2>The Page Master, which I loved as a kid, and

0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:08.680
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember. I think people think it's bad, but

0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:11.920
<v Speaker 2>I was as a child, was like that was my

0:36:12.000 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Macaulay Culkin movie. Anyway. Sure, yeah, I don't really know

0:36:16.480 --> 0:36:20.160
<v Speaker 2>what Joe Johnston's politics are or if he's trying to

0:36:20.360 --> 0:36:26.000
<v Speaker 2>sneak something in there or not, but Yeah, it feels

0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:28.319
<v Speaker 2>very intentional the way that that's filmed, and then it

0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:32.320
<v Speaker 2>proceeds to not comment on it at all whatsoever except

0:36:32.440 --> 0:36:35.200
<v Speaker 2>to say, I mean again, it's like the fact that

0:36:35.200 --> 0:36:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Captain America did that is presented as kind of an

0:36:38.080 --> 0:36:40.479
<v Speaker 2>embarrassment to him, but not because of what he's saying

0:36:40.560 --> 0:36:44.320
<v Speaker 2>or promoting, just because he'd rather be actually fighting.

0:36:44.520 --> 0:36:47.080
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because he's like not living up to his potential

0:36:47.200 --> 0:36:48.280
<v Speaker 3>as a super soldier.

0:36:48.840 --> 0:36:52.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, there's never a critique of like, you know, it

0:36:52.520 --> 0:36:55.719
<v Speaker 2>only looks silly because it's like you're saying, like it

0:36:55.760 --> 0:36:59.120
<v Speaker 2>is him squandering his potential, not because what they're saying

0:36:59.120 --> 0:37:02.960
<v Speaker 2>in the way they're saying it is like pernicious and yeah, exactly.

0:37:03.160 --> 0:37:06.919
<v Speaker 3>Yes. So to that point, Steve is like, Ugh, this

0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:11.520
<v Speaker 3>isn't satisfying work. I want to fight. And then he

0:37:11.640 --> 0:37:15.319
<v Speaker 3>learns that his best friend Bucky was among a group

0:37:15.360 --> 0:37:20.360
<v Speaker 3>of soldiers who were either captured or killed. So Agent

0:37:20.400 --> 0:37:25.600
<v Speaker 3>Carter and Howard Stark fly Steve to I think Austria

0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:30.520
<v Speaker 3>so that he can try to rescue Bucky if he's alive. Yeah,

0:37:30.560 --> 0:37:35.480
<v Speaker 3>So Steve aka Captain America because he's now also becoming

0:37:35.520 --> 0:37:40.360
<v Speaker 3>Captain America the superhero. He parachutes out of the plane

0:37:40.600 --> 0:37:44.960
<v Speaker 3>and sneaks into some facility where he finds Bucky and

0:37:45.040 --> 0:37:50.040
<v Speaker 3>a bunch of other American soldiers. Yeah, Schmidt blows up

0:37:50.360 --> 0:37:56.839
<v Speaker 3>this facility for again reasons that I definitely understood. Yes,

0:37:57.120 --> 0:38:00.720
<v Speaker 3>and then he and Captain America have a face off,

0:38:01.200 --> 0:38:06.279
<v Speaker 3>literally because pulls his face off to reveal that he

0:38:06.600 --> 0:38:07.920
<v Speaker 3>is Red Skull.

0:38:08.160 --> 0:38:10.920
<v Speaker 2>Okay, I'm a cynic, and that moment is awesome.

0:38:11.160 --> 0:38:12.480
<v Speaker 3>No, it's great. I loved it.

0:38:12.560 --> 0:38:14.560
<v Speaker 2>I love to see it. And it's like, you know

0:38:14.880 --> 0:38:18.160
<v Speaker 2>that this movie is flawed in so many ways, but yeah,

0:38:18.200 --> 0:38:21.440
<v Speaker 2>it's it's never I'm never unhappy to see a Nazi

0:38:21.440 --> 0:38:23.920
<v Speaker 2>get his ass beat, and that way you know it

0:38:23.960 --> 0:38:26.719
<v Speaker 2>is it is very effective. I don't know if you

0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:28.879
<v Speaker 2>planned to get into this. I didn't get too deep

0:38:28.920 --> 0:38:31.319
<v Speaker 2>into it, but I did feel the need to just

0:38:31.640 --> 0:38:35.640
<v Speaker 2>sidebar really quickly to say Steve, Steve Rogers and Bucky Barnes.

0:38:35.719 --> 0:38:38.640
<v Speaker 2>I think, like, even not as a fan of these movies,

0:38:38.680 --> 0:38:42.520
<v Speaker 2>I am well aware of the overwhelming shipping fan fiction

0:38:42.600 --> 0:38:48.160
<v Speaker 2>culture there is around these characters. It's called stucky duh.

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:52.920
<v Speaker 3>Okay, I'm not super aware of this specific pair being shipped.

0:38:53.360 --> 0:38:55.800
<v Speaker 2>Oh it's listeners, correct me if I'm wrong. But I

0:38:56.040 --> 0:38:58.920
<v Speaker 2>did a little bit of scanning in archive of our

0:38:58.960 --> 0:39:03.160
<v Speaker 2>own and other fan sites, and Stucky is a thing

0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:07.000
<v Speaker 2>Stucky I and I think that this movie does kind

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.160
<v Speaker 2>of and I don't mean this in a negative way.

0:39:09.200 --> 0:39:11.319
<v Speaker 2>I think that this movie really opens the door for

0:39:11.360 --> 0:39:15.040
<v Speaker 2>that because I find the relationship. You know, if I'm

0:39:15.080 --> 0:39:18.479
<v Speaker 2>just like watching this like movie brain, I'm watching Steve

0:39:18.560 --> 0:39:21.960
<v Speaker 2>and Bucky, and I'm like, they have such a loving friendship.

0:39:23.120 --> 0:39:26.040
<v Speaker 2>And I think, as with a lot of these shipping pairs,

0:39:26.440 --> 0:39:29.200
<v Speaker 2>even if they are not canonically queer characters, it's it's like,

0:39:29.280 --> 0:39:33.319
<v Speaker 2>it's so rare to see men have an affectionate friendship,

0:39:33.560 --> 0:39:34.360
<v Speaker 2>which these two do.

0:39:34.640 --> 0:39:34.879
<v Speaker 3>True.

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so just shouting out that existence because you know,

0:39:39.760 --> 0:39:43.680
<v Speaker 2>any any queer representation in this movie you will need to,

0:39:44.960 --> 0:39:48.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, do some work to get there. But the

0:39:48.040 --> 0:39:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Stucky community was holding it down in the twenty tents

0:39:51.280 --> 0:39:53.120
<v Speaker 2>and possibly still today. I don't know what they're up to.

0:39:53.600 --> 0:39:59.040
<v Speaker 3>Sure, yeah, one of them is dead. What spoiler, well,

0:39:59.040 --> 0:40:01.600
<v Speaker 3>Captain America or he either dies or he goes back

0:40:01.640 --> 0:40:02.680
<v Speaker 3>in time or something.

0:40:02.760 --> 0:40:07.160
<v Speaker 2>Oh oh the character. Oh sorry god, I was like no,

0:40:07.239 --> 0:40:07.640
<v Speaker 2>they're not.

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:09.360
<v Speaker 3>The actors are still both alive.

0:40:09.600 --> 0:40:14.160
<v Speaker 2>I was like, wait, unless this happened today, No, I will.

0:40:14.520 --> 0:40:18.080
<v Speaker 2>I had to check with Grant, because no matter how

0:40:18.160 --> 0:40:21.120
<v Speaker 2>wonderful a man is, they always do want to remind

0:40:21.120 --> 0:40:24.319
<v Speaker 2>you what happened in Marvel movies. And he told me,

0:40:24.360 --> 0:40:26.400
<v Speaker 2>and I vaguely remember this because I did see the

0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:28.880
<v Speaker 2>last of Andrew's movie. Yeah, he like travels back in

0:40:28.920 --> 0:40:31.120
<v Speaker 2>time to be with Peggy at the end, and then

0:40:31.160 --> 0:40:36.280
<v Speaker 2>he and then Anthony Mackie gets promoted to Captain America.

0:40:37.280 --> 0:40:39.880
<v Speaker 2>And that's a whole other conversation.

0:40:40.239 --> 0:40:41.040
<v Speaker 3>Yes, indeed.

0:40:41.440 --> 0:40:41.840
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:40:41.920 --> 0:40:50.760
<v Speaker 3>Anyway, so Red Skull has revealed himself Red Skull because

0:40:50.760 --> 0:40:54.400
<v Speaker 3>I guess the side effects of the early version of

0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:58.880
<v Speaker 3>doctor Erskine's serum made his face look like a skull.

0:40:59.200 --> 0:41:04.960
<v Speaker 3>That's okay, hence Red Skull. And then he makes a

0:41:04.960 --> 0:41:08.000
<v Speaker 3>little speech about something I don't know. I I was

0:41:08.000 --> 0:41:10.400
<v Speaker 3>also having a hard time paying attention in that moment,

0:41:10.719 --> 0:41:15.320
<v Speaker 3>and then he pieces out back to the Hydra secret Layer. Okay,

0:41:15.640 --> 0:41:20.120
<v Speaker 3>So then Captain America and Bucky escape and then triumphantly

0:41:20.280 --> 0:41:23.640
<v Speaker 3>returned to the US military base with all of the

0:41:24.080 --> 0:41:27.799
<v Speaker 3>captured American soldiers it's like four hundred of them, and

0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:31.680
<v Speaker 3>then there's also one French guy and one British guy there. Sure, sure,

0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:36.319
<v Speaker 3>And Tommy Lee Jones is like, what I thought you

0:41:36.360 --> 0:41:39.600
<v Speaker 3>were killed in action, Captain America. I guess you really

0:41:39.640 --> 0:41:45.080
<v Speaker 3>are a super soldier. And Peggy is like, hey, sexy boy,

0:41:45.440 --> 0:41:46.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm so glad you're back.

0:41:47.480 --> 0:41:51.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then they basically promote him to like god truly,

0:41:51.680 --> 0:41:55.759
<v Speaker 2>like they just give him carte blanche on the entire military.

0:41:56.320 --> 0:42:01.799
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he's a national hero and he is given like

0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:04.680
<v Speaker 3>general patent levels of military power.

0:42:05.280 --> 0:42:05.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:08.640
<v Speaker 3>And so he and his military buddies make a plan

0:42:09.120 --> 0:42:13.480
<v Speaker 3>to go back in and destroy Hydra weapons factories and

0:42:13.719 --> 0:42:16.360
<v Speaker 3>shit like that, and then they also still need to

0:42:16.400 --> 0:42:21.120
<v Speaker 3>find schmid Slash Red Skull and his secret base and

0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:26.200
<v Speaker 3>kill him before they leave. Captain America gets his famous shield,

0:42:26.800 --> 0:42:30.680
<v Speaker 3>and he also manages to piss off agent Peggy Carter

0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:33.799
<v Speaker 3>when she sees him kissing another woman.

0:42:34.520 --> 0:42:36.719
<v Speaker 2>Which is an interesting sequence.

0:42:36.840 --> 0:42:41.399
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we'll talk about it. Yeah, but anyway, we get

0:42:41.440 --> 0:42:45.600
<v Speaker 3>a montage of Captain America and friends blowing up a

0:42:45.600 --> 0:42:51.120
<v Speaker 3>bunch of Hydra shit. Red Skull is pissed, and then

0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:54.480
<v Speaker 3>Captain America and his friends jump onto a moving train

0:42:55.000 --> 0:43:00.480
<v Speaker 3>to capture doctor Zola, the Toby Jones scientist, fighting some

0:43:00.520 --> 0:43:03.840
<v Speaker 3>bad guys along the way, and then oh no, Bucky

0:43:03.880 --> 0:43:08.600
<v Speaker 3>falls off the train into a ravine and probably dies

0:43:08.880 --> 0:43:11.920
<v Speaker 3>or maybe he becomes the Winter Soldier in the next movie.

0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:12.880
<v Speaker 3>Who can say?

0:43:13.440 --> 0:43:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mean, it's part of why watching this movie

0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:20.040
<v Speaker 2>in the modern day gets really diminishing returns, because living

0:43:20.080 --> 0:43:23.720
<v Speaker 2>in the future, you know that, like this franchise refuses

0:43:23.760 --> 0:43:27.680
<v Speaker 2>to kill anybody. So it's like, I don't know, maybe

0:43:27.680 --> 0:43:31.200
<v Speaker 2>I did get emotional in the cinema when you're like,

0:43:31.280 --> 0:43:33.879
<v Speaker 2>oh no, Steven Peggy, when are they going to see

0:43:33.880 --> 0:43:36.040
<v Speaker 2>each other? But you're just like, they are never gonna

0:43:36.080 --> 0:43:39.319
<v Speaker 2>let these motherfuckers die. As long as there is a

0:43:39.360 --> 0:43:41.919
<v Speaker 2>dollar in the world, these characters will live.

0:43:42.560 --> 0:43:44.919
<v Speaker 3>It's true. Yeah, it's true. Yeah. There was a whole

0:43:44.960 --> 0:43:49.000
<v Speaker 3>movie about how half of the characters quote unquote die,

0:43:49.040 --> 0:43:51.600
<v Speaker 3>and then the second the next movie is about how

0:43:51.600 --> 0:43:54.440
<v Speaker 3>they do all this shit to go back in time

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:59.520
<v Speaker 3>and reverse the timeline so that they all live again.

0:43:59.520 --> 0:44:01.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't a lot of what happens.

0:44:01.520 --> 0:44:04.880
<v Speaker 2>I remember people being like the snap, the snap changes everything,

0:44:05.040 --> 0:44:06.480
<v Speaker 2>And then the next movie came out and they're like,

0:44:06.520 --> 0:44:08.399
<v Speaker 2>never mis kidding, The snap.

0:44:08.120 --> 0:44:15.080
<v Speaker 3>Did not really change anything. Yeah yeah. So anyway, Captain

0:44:15.120 --> 0:44:18.479
<v Speaker 3>America doesn't know that his best friend survived and would

0:44:18.520 --> 0:44:20.920
<v Speaker 3>go on to be in a bunch of other MCU movies,

0:44:21.280 --> 0:44:25.200
<v Speaker 3>so he's really really sad. But they were able to

0:44:25.320 --> 0:44:29.400
<v Speaker 3>capture doctor Zola on this mission and Tommy Lee Jones

0:44:29.440 --> 0:44:33.080
<v Speaker 3>interrogates him and finds out that Red Skull plans to

0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:36.680
<v Speaker 3>blow up all of the United States, so the stakes

0:44:36.680 --> 0:44:38.879
<v Speaker 3>are high and they really got to stop this guy.

0:44:39.960 --> 0:44:43.240
<v Speaker 3>So then Captain America and company head to the secret

0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:46.520
<v Speaker 3>Hydra Basse because Toby Jones told them where it is,

0:44:47.680 --> 0:44:52.120
<v Speaker 3>and Captain America is captured and brought to Red Skull,

0:44:52.239 --> 0:44:54.720
<v Speaker 3>except that maybe that was part of the plan because

0:44:54.760 --> 0:44:57.239
<v Speaker 3>his buddies come in and save him. I don't know,

0:44:57.280 --> 0:45:01.440
<v Speaker 3>but there's like a big third act fight. Agent Carter

0:45:01.680 --> 0:45:05.600
<v Speaker 3>is there. She's not mad at Captain America anymore, so

0:45:05.640 --> 0:45:08.960
<v Speaker 3>she gives him a big smooch and says, go get it.

0:45:09.280 --> 0:45:13.560
<v Speaker 2>Get which if that doesn't encapsulate an allegedly feminist character

0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:16.759
<v Speaker 2>from twenty eleven, show me what does.

0:45:16.760 --> 0:45:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Exactly, And then he jumps on a plane that's taking off,

0:45:21.840 --> 0:45:24.719
<v Speaker 3>which is full of bombs that Red Skull plans to

0:45:24.840 --> 0:45:29.360
<v Speaker 3>drop on different major cities in the US. Captain America

0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:33.200
<v Speaker 3>and Red Skull fight. At some point, the Tesseract gets

0:45:33.320 --> 0:45:39.440
<v Speaker 3>dislodged and Red Skull picks it up and disappears. And

0:45:39.440 --> 0:45:41.480
<v Speaker 3>not that we know this from this movie, but it

0:45:41.600 --> 0:45:44.880
<v Speaker 3>creates a wormhole and he's sent to some faraway planet.

0:45:44.920 --> 0:45:49.399
<v Speaker 3>Because this character shows up again in Avengers Infinity War

0:45:49.520 --> 0:45:56.240
<v Speaker 3>and Endgame, I think I believe you. Thank you so much. Anyway,

0:45:57.239 --> 0:45:59.520
<v Speaker 3>Captain America is still in the plane and he gets

0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:02.160
<v Speaker 3>in the pilot seat, but in order to save New York,

0:46:02.400 --> 0:46:06.360
<v Speaker 3>where this plane is headed, he has to sacrifice himself

0:46:06.760 --> 0:46:11.440
<v Speaker 3>and crash the ship into the ice somewhere. Wait a minute,

0:46:11.840 --> 0:46:16.360
<v Speaker 3>was that what the opening of the movie was all about? Yes,

0:46:16.400 --> 0:46:21.279
<v Speaker 3>but we're not sure. But we're not sure. But we're

0:46:21.320 --> 0:46:25.359
<v Speaker 3>not sure how he gets from being almost to New

0:46:25.440 --> 0:46:29.719
<v Speaker 3>York City to somewhere in the arctic tundra within a

0:46:29.719 --> 0:46:32.279
<v Speaker 3>few seconds. But I guess we're not supposed to think

0:46:32.320 --> 0:46:37.120
<v Speaker 3>about that. Cut to Steve waking up in a hospital room,

0:46:37.640 --> 0:46:40.120
<v Speaker 3>it seems like it's still the nineteen forties and there's

0:46:40.120 --> 0:46:43.399
<v Speaker 3>a Brooklyn Dodgers game playing on the radio. But wait,

0:46:43.520 --> 0:46:47.120
<v Speaker 3>something isn't right. This game already happened. So he's like,

0:46:47.120 --> 0:46:50.760
<v Speaker 3>where the hell am I? What's going on? He runs

0:46:50.840 --> 0:46:55.160
<v Speaker 3>out and into Times Square and surprise, it's twenty eleven

0:46:55.920 --> 0:47:00.359
<v Speaker 3>and Nick Fury played by Samuel L. Jackson famously up

0:47:00.400 --> 0:47:03.320
<v Speaker 3>to inform him that he has been asleep for almost

0:47:03.520 --> 0:47:08.200
<v Speaker 3>seventy years. I guess he was like frozen in the

0:47:08.239 --> 0:47:12.440
<v Speaker 3>ice and that preserved him. And he's like, oh shucks,

0:47:12.719 --> 0:47:15.320
<v Speaker 3>I had a date with Peggy. I was so close

0:47:15.360 --> 0:47:19.880
<v Speaker 3>to losing my virginity the end, And.

0:47:19.920 --> 0:47:24.239
<v Speaker 2>Does he ever lose his virginity? I don't remember. I

0:47:24.320 --> 0:47:27.760
<v Speaker 2>don't remember. Maybe he knows, maybe none of my business. Maybe,

0:47:28.000 --> 0:47:30.560
<v Speaker 2>And then there's a post credit sequence where Steve is

0:47:30.640 --> 0:47:33.200
<v Speaker 2>hitting a punching bag and absolutely nothing happens.

0:47:34.000 --> 0:47:34.439
<v Speaker 3>The end.

0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:36.560
<v Speaker 2>They hadn't quite they hadn't quite cracked in.

0:47:37.239 --> 0:47:37.719
<v Speaker 3>I don't know.

0:47:38.719 --> 0:47:41.200
<v Speaker 2>All right, let's take a quick break and then we'll

0:47:41.239 --> 0:47:41.839
<v Speaker 2>be right back.

0:47:51.840 --> 0:47:52.480
<v Speaker 3>And we're back.

0:47:53.120 --> 0:47:55.759
<v Speaker 2>A few things stick out to me with and and

0:47:55.840 --> 0:47:59.600
<v Speaker 2>again I am not in any manner of authority on

0:48:00.880 --> 0:48:04.160
<v Speaker 2>history surrounding World War Two, no, I, but I did

0:48:04.200 --> 0:48:06.720
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of research just to sort of flesh

0:48:06.760 --> 0:48:11.720
<v Speaker 2>out the way that this period is represented versus what they're.

0:48:11.600 --> 0:48:18.879
<v Speaker 3>Actually what actually was going on. So just roughly what

0:48:18.960 --> 0:48:21.440
<v Speaker 3>we see in this movie, and Kitlyn please correct.

0:48:21.200 --> 0:48:25.160
<v Speaker 2>Me, because I was half asleep and missed this. So

0:48:25.920 --> 0:48:29.800
<v Speaker 2>we meet Steve Rogers, who you know, is a character

0:48:30.120 --> 0:48:37.000
<v Speaker 2>who was invented by Jack Kirby and Joe Simon explicitly

0:48:37.480 --> 0:48:40.200
<v Speaker 2>to be the antithesist to Hitler. The first image of him,

0:48:40.239 --> 0:48:42.120
<v Speaker 2>he is punching Hitler in the face, which is something

0:48:42.120 --> 0:48:44.919
<v Speaker 2>that is replicated in the movie. But we meet him

0:48:44.960 --> 0:48:50.520
<v Speaker 2>as a character who really wants to enlist in the military. Right,

0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 2>did this happen in World War Two? Yes? However, two

0:48:56.200 --> 0:48:58.920
<v Speaker 2>thirds of the and I'm pulling this from the National

0:48:59.000 --> 0:49:04.120
<v Speaker 2>World War Two Museum, two thirds of Americans who served

0:49:04.120 --> 0:49:08.040
<v Speaker 2>in the military during World War Two sixteen million people.

0:49:08.320 --> 0:49:11.719
<v Speaker 2>Two thirds of those people were drafted, so only about

0:49:11.760 --> 0:49:15.600
<v Speaker 2>one in three were volunteers. There also was a far

0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:19.879
<v Speaker 2>more diverse coalition of soldiers than we see. It was

0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:23.400
<v Speaker 2>a majority white coalition, but there were over one million

0:49:23.880 --> 0:49:27.000
<v Speaker 2>black soldiers, which I don't think we see represented proportionally,

0:49:27.440 --> 0:49:31.880
<v Speaker 2>as well as hundreds of thousands of Hispanic Americans as

0:49:31.920 --> 0:49:35.560
<v Speaker 2>well as Native Asian and Filipino Americans. We see very

0:49:35.600 --> 0:49:37.960
<v Speaker 2>little diversity in this But I think that the point

0:49:37.960 --> 0:49:40.920
<v Speaker 2>that has really aggressively hit on in this movie is

0:49:40.960 --> 0:49:43.279
<v Speaker 2>that Steve Rogers wants nothing more than to fight for

0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:46.200
<v Speaker 2>his country, and we don't really see another point of

0:49:46.280 --> 0:49:50.560
<v Speaker 2>view represented, even though those other two in three you

0:49:50.600 --> 0:49:55.520
<v Speaker 2>would imagine may have more complicated feelings toward the draft.

0:49:56.800 --> 0:50:00.920
<v Speaker 2>This is something that I'm sure is handily addressed. There

0:50:01.000 --> 0:50:04.919
<v Speaker 2>is nothing, if not a trillion movies about World War Two,

0:50:05.600 --> 0:50:09.080
<v Speaker 2>but in a product this big, and I think, especially

0:50:09.160 --> 0:50:13.799
<v Speaker 2>because this is a movie that is marketed at kids,

0:50:14.680 --> 0:50:18.400
<v Speaker 2>this is a very particular, i think, very nationalistic way

0:50:18.440 --> 0:50:21.560
<v Speaker 2>to portray this period in time that I think, I mean,

0:50:21.640 --> 0:50:24.839
<v Speaker 2>I had to double check these numbers to be like,

0:50:25.120 --> 0:50:29.480
<v Speaker 2>I know that you know, unlike other wars that the

0:50:29.600 --> 0:50:33.760
<v Speaker 2>US was an aggressor in, had a far lower level

0:50:33.800 --> 0:50:37.800
<v Speaker 2>of volunteer than World War Two. Vietnam is the example

0:50:37.800 --> 0:50:41.719
<v Speaker 2>that comes directly to mind, right, But the fact that

0:50:41.880 --> 0:50:45.880
<v Speaker 2>you know two and three people were drafted versus the

0:50:46.000 --> 0:50:50.920
<v Speaker 2>only perspective we see presented here feels very playing into

0:50:51.760 --> 0:50:54.760
<v Speaker 2>the idea of the quote unquote great American hero where

0:50:55.239 --> 0:50:58.640
<v Speaker 2>we're given kind of a very vague backstory and it's

0:50:58.760 --> 0:51:01.840
<v Speaker 2>just inherently a American and this is this is not

0:51:02.520 --> 0:51:07.600
<v Speaker 2>an ideology that's exclusive to America. It's any nationalistic structure.

0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:10.319
<v Speaker 2>There's many many countries that do this, but this is

0:51:10.360 --> 0:51:13.560
<v Speaker 2>the American one. So I just thought that that was

0:51:14.120 --> 0:51:17.000
<v Speaker 2>worth pointing out that it is. You know, the perspectives

0:51:17.040 --> 0:51:22.080
<v Speaker 2>we see are very skewed in favor of the join

0:51:22.160 --> 0:51:26.839
<v Speaker 2>the Draft, which is literally what Captain America represents explicitly

0:51:26.920 --> 0:51:29.799
<v Speaker 2>at one point in the movie. And I have some

0:51:29.880 --> 0:51:31.560
<v Speaker 2>of this for later on, but there are a few

0:51:31.640 --> 0:51:35.520
<v Speaker 2>quotes given by Chris Evans and I'm like, he was

0:51:35.520 --> 0:51:37.080
<v Speaker 2>so young, and then I look at it and I'm like,

0:51:37.160 --> 0:51:42.439
<v Speaker 2>he was twenty nine. He could read. But there are

0:51:42.960 --> 0:51:47.400
<v Speaker 2>this repeated pattern I think that is reflective of how

0:51:47.520 --> 0:51:53.080
<v Speaker 2>America is perceived by itself and by and globally that

0:51:53.120 --> 0:51:56.200
<v Speaker 2>you can find in the press tours for Captain America

0:51:56.360 --> 0:52:00.000
<v Speaker 2>products that try to distance themselves from what is very

0:52:00.080 --> 0:52:03.440
<v Speaker 2>explicitly being put on screen to be like, oh, he

0:52:03.480 --> 0:52:07.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really stand for America. He stands for goodness, which

0:52:07.880 --> 0:52:10.319
<v Speaker 2>is not what we'll get into that more. But I mean,

0:52:10.920 --> 0:52:13.480
<v Speaker 2>I think that part of the reason that this is

0:52:13.560 --> 0:52:17.440
<v Speaker 2>an effective piece of propaganda is it's attempting to directly

0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:24.719
<v Speaker 2>correlate being American with being good for sure. So anyways, yeah,

0:52:24.880 --> 0:52:28.760
<v Speaker 2>astorical how they present the draft anyways.

0:52:28.640 --> 0:52:33.000
<v Speaker 3>Definitely, Yeah, I as we were talking about a little

0:52:33.000 --> 0:52:36.439
<v Speaker 3>bit earlier, because it had been so long since I've

0:52:36.480 --> 0:52:42.200
<v Speaker 3>seen this movie, I completely forgot how much pro US

0:52:42.320 --> 0:52:48.239
<v Speaker 3>military propaganda is present and presented completely earnestly without any

0:52:48.239 --> 0:52:53.120
<v Speaker 3>sort of commentary or satire or anything like that. Again,

0:52:53.200 --> 0:52:56.399
<v Speaker 3>not that a huge studio superhero movie that was made

0:52:56.440 --> 0:53:00.440
<v Speaker 3>in cooperation with the US government would do anything like that, course,

0:53:00.840 --> 0:53:02.799
<v Speaker 3>but I was still kind of shocked by how like

0:53:03.000 --> 0:53:05.480
<v Speaker 3>in your face this movie is as far as it's

0:53:05.520 --> 0:53:10.560
<v Speaker 3>like hyper pro military industrial complex rhetoric. And it got

0:53:10.640 --> 0:53:14.560
<v Speaker 3>me wondering about World War II propaganda that was circulated

0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:17.719
<v Speaker 3>around the US, since that's what we see Captain America

0:53:17.760 --> 0:53:21.680
<v Speaker 3>doing as his first job. So I did a little research.

0:53:22.360 --> 0:53:24.839
<v Speaker 3>I'm not an expert on this topic, so I might

0:53:24.880 --> 0:53:29.680
<v Speaker 3>be oversimplifying things, but basically, there was a ton of

0:53:29.880 --> 0:53:33.080
<v Speaker 3>propaganda going around the US during World War Two. This

0:53:33.120 --> 0:53:36.040
<v Speaker 3>happened in World War One as well, but it was

0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:41.320
<v Speaker 3>things like films, radio broadcasts, posters, advertisements, magazines, leaflets, cartoons,

0:53:41.360 --> 0:53:44.839
<v Speaker 3>comic books, live shows. Basically any type of media that

0:53:44.880 --> 0:53:49.360
<v Speaker 3>was available at the time was used to distribute propaganda

0:53:49.800 --> 0:53:55.520
<v Speaker 3>by the US government to promote pretty extreme American patriotism

0:53:55.640 --> 0:53:59.720
<v Speaker 3>in order to get Americans to support the war effort.

0:54:00.120 --> 0:54:02.839
<v Speaker 3>So the idea was to persuade people to be more

0:54:02.880 --> 0:54:08.400
<v Speaker 3>blindly patriotic, because that makes people easier to control and exploit.

0:54:09.360 --> 0:54:13.440
<v Speaker 3>So propaganda was used not only to kind of broadly

0:54:13.760 --> 0:54:20.400
<v Speaker 3>encourage intense American patriotism, but also more specifically to get

0:54:20.440 --> 0:54:24.440
<v Speaker 3>people to enlist in the military, to offer their labor

0:54:24.560 --> 0:54:29.680
<v Speaker 3>in factories and victory gardens and gathering scrap metal and

0:54:29.719 --> 0:54:35.440
<v Speaker 3>things like that. People were propagandized to be frugal with

0:54:35.640 --> 0:54:39.040
<v Speaker 3>their use of different materials so that those materials could

0:54:39.040 --> 0:54:43.120
<v Speaker 3>be used for the war. People were propagandized into buying

0:54:43.200 --> 0:54:45.960
<v Speaker 3>war bonds, which is what we see Captain America selling

0:54:46.520 --> 0:54:48.800
<v Speaker 3>in the movie when he's turned into this like Uncle

0:54:48.880 --> 0:54:53.560
<v Speaker 3>Sam type figure. So, yeah, I was just curious about that,

0:54:54.040 --> 0:54:56.719
<v Speaker 3>and I'm also interested to learn more about how the

0:54:57.160 --> 0:55:03.600
<v Speaker 3>pro patriotism slash arguably pro American nationalism propaganda from that era,

0:55:04.680 --> 0:55:09.439
<v Speaker 3>like how it influences modern day patriotism and nationalism in

0:55:09.480 --> 0:55:13.400
<v Speaker 3>the US, because I have a feeling that they're connected.

0:55:14.000 --> 0:55:18.040
<v Speaker 3>And it's also maybe partly why this very pro America,

0:55:18.080 --> 0:55:24.200
<v Speaker 3>pro military movie from relatively recent years is set during

0:55:24.840 --> 0:55:27.280
<v Speaker 3>this era of World War Two.

0:55:27.680 --> 0:55:30.759
<v Speaker 2>Right, That's that's really interesting. I did not go down

0:55:30.800 --> 0:55:34.600
<v Speaker 2>that line of study, but yeah, I mean that that

0:55:34.760 --> 0:55:38.200
<v Speaker 2>totally scans. I hope that I'm like afraid that the

0:55:38.280 --> 0:55:40.080
<v Speaker 2>history has been like, well, actually.

0:55:39.719 --> 0:55:43.839
<v Speaker 3>I'm like, I know, and we probably right, But this

0:55:43.880 --> 0:55:46.120
<v Speaker 3>is a movie podcast, not a history podcast.

0:55:46.520 --> 0:55:49.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, there are other sources for this, but we're trying

0:55:49.080 --> 0:55:52.160
<v Speaker 2>to just contextualize the version of history that this movie

0:55:52.200 --> 0:55:56.080
<v Speaker 2>is presenting, which is very in line with what we

0:55:56.280 --> 0:55:58.480
<v Speaker 2>learned in American public schools, or at least what we

0:55:58.640 --> 0:56:01.080
<v Speaker 2>learned in American public school at the time. That is

0:56:01.239 --> 0:56:07.520
<v Speaker 2>also very moving target. But it's interesting how much American

0:56:07.520 --> 0:56:10.040
<v Speaker 2>propaganda is referenced inside of the movie and then how

0:56:10.120 --> 0:56:13.960
<v Speaker 2>much is going on within the production, right, Because I'll

0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:16.080
<v Speaker 2>go back to that Chris Evans quote, and this was

0:56:16.080 --> 0:56:20.800
<v Speaker 2>something that came back up last year when the Anthony

0:56:20.840 --> 0:56:25.359
<v Speaker 2>Mackie Captain American movie came out, which we can talk

0:56:25.360 --> 0:56:28.160
<v Speaker 2>about because there was a boycott on that movie at

0:56:28.160 --> 0:56:30.600
<v Speaker 2>Captain America Brave New World that we should talk about

0:56:30.600 --> 0:56:34.320
<v Speaker 2>the context of. But there was a quote from Anthony

0:56:34.360 --> 0:56:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Mackie that is similar to a Chris Evans one, but

0:56:38.800 --> 0:56:41.520
<v Speaker 2>I think because Anthony Mackie is a black actor, it

0:56:41.600 --> 0:56:45.239
<v Speaker 2>was taken out of context and treated quite differently. But

0:56:45.719 --> 0:56:50.600
<v Speaker 2>I'll just share getting to that, like Captain America being

0:56:50.680 --> 0:56:55.920
<v Speaker 2>an overt representation of American propaganda and that existing during

0:56:56.160 --> 0:56:59.520
<v Speaker 2>times where America is not very popular, and how it's presented,

0:57:00.120 --> 0:57:03.439
<v Speaker 2>so Anthony Mackie says last year January twenty twenty five,

0:57:04.040 --> 0:57:06.600
<v Speaker 2>For me, Captain America represents a lot of different things,

0:57:06.600 --> 0:57:08.600
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think the term America should be one

0:57:08.640 --> 0:57:11.479
<v Speaker 2>of those representations. It's about a man who keeps his word,

0:57:11.480 --> 0:57:14.759
<v Speaker 2>who has honor, dignity and integrity, someone who is trustworthy

0:57:14.800 --> 0:57:19.800
<v Speaker 2>and dependable. And again I very much disagree with this representation.

0:57:20.680 --> 0:57:23.800
<v Speaker 2>But of course, you know this was taken up by

0:57:23.800 --> 0:57:27.439
<v Speaker 2>the right wing as like Anthony Mackie hates America, blah

0:57:27.480 --> 0:57:32.120
<v Speaker 2>blah blah, and then he to me hilariously, was clearly

0:57:32.200 --> 0:57:35.160
<v Speaker 2>forced to apologize for this in an Instagram story using

0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:37.960
<v Speaker 2>comic sands, and he's like, let me be clear, I'm

0:57:37.960 --> 0:57:40.160
<v Speaker 2>a proud American and taking on the shield blah blah blah.

0:57:40.160 --> 0:57:42.680
<v Speaker 2>So he was forced to apologize. It is very similar though,

0:57:42.680 --> 0:57:46.320
<v Speaker 2>to something that Chris Evan says way back in twenty

0:57:46.320 --> 0:57:49.320
<v Speaker 2>eleven that I also disagree with. But I think it's

0:57:49.360 --> 0:57:51.720
<v Speaker 2>interesting that this is a through line in the twenty

0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:54.520
<v Speaker 2>first century. He said, I'm not trying to get too

0:57:54.560 --> 0:57:56.800
<v Speaker 2>lost in the American side of it. This isn't a

0:57:56.840 --> 0:58:00.360
<v Speaker 2>flag waving movie. It is red, white and blue. But

0:58:01.800 --> 0:58:04.320
<v Speaker 2>it just so happens that the character was created in

0:58:04.360 --> 0:58:07.120
<v Speaker 2>America during wartime when there was a common enemy. Even

0:58:07.120 --> 0:58:10.080
<v Speaker 2>though it is Captain America. I've said it before it interviews.

0:58:10.160 --> 0:58:12.720
<v Speaker 2>I feel like he should just be called Captain Good.

0:58:14.000 --> 0:58:17.600
<v Speaker 2>You know. He actors should not be allowed to speak.

0:58:18.320 --> 0:58:20.800
<v Speaker 2>You know, he was created at a time where there

0:58:20.880 --> 0:58:23.000
<v Speaker 2>was this undeniable evil, and this guy was kind of

0:58:23.040 --> 0:58:25.600
<v Speaker 2>created to fight that evil. I think that everyone could

0:58:25.600 --> 0:58:28.240
<v Speaker 2>agree that Nazis were bad, and he cap just so

0:58:28.280 --> 0:58:31.760
<v Speaker 2>happens to wear the red, white and blue. Now the backbends,

0:58:31.920 --> 0:58:36.720
<v Speaker 2>this poor man is doing to do. This is just like,

0:58:37.000 --> 0:58:41.840
<v Speaker 2>never listen whatever. Actors are wonderful, but should they be speaking.

0:58:41.920 --> 0:58:46.640
<v Speaker 2>I don't know. Sometimes no, But it's interesting that both

0:58:46.680 --> 0:58:49.000
<v Speaker 2>of them are sort of trying to do this gymnastics

0:58:49.040 --> 0:58:53.320
<v Speaker 2>routine against acknowledging what is very clear about this character,

0:58:53.600 --> 0:58:56.760
<v Speaker 2>and in doing so sort of like hitting the nail

0:58:56.800 --> 0:58:58.439
<v Speaker 2>on the head of what we're supposed to take away

0:58:58.440 --> 0:59:02.000
<v Speaker 2>from Captain America. America good and in the case of

0:59:02.040 --> 0:59:06.120
<v Speaker 2>that Chris Evans quote, you know, presenting probably the version

0:59:06.120 --> 0:59:08.680
<v Speaker 2>of history that he learned in American schools that you

0:59:08.840 --> 0:59:12.240
<v Speaker 2>just that you just talked about. Caitlin is like, well,

0:59:12.320 --> 0:59:16.320
<v Speaker 2>we can all agree that Hitler was bad. Absolutely true.

0:59:16.960 --> 0:59:18.320
<v Speaker 3>Of course, of.

0:59:18.280 --> 0:59:24.000
<v Speaker 2>Course Hitler is famously history's greatest monster. And that does

0:59:24.040 --> 0:59:28.360
<v Speaker 2>not mean that America being opposed to Hitler means that

0:59:28.440 --> 0:59:33.520
<v Speaker 2>America is you know, uncomplicatedly good. We understand this, but

0:59:33.960 --> 0:59:36.760
<v Speaker 2>it's just like, it's so funny to me that he

0:59:36.800 --> 0:59:39.480
<v Speaker 2>said this isn't a flag waving movie when literally the

0:59:40.120 --> 0:59:44.080
<v Speaker 2>first end credit tile his uncle Sam. You're like, yeah, bro,

0:59:44.440 --> 0:59:47.200
<v Speaker 2>this is this is like one of the most flag

0:59:47.280 --> 0:59:51.760
<v Speaker 2>wavingest movies that we have. Yes, yeah, I mean I

0:59:51.760 --> 0:59:54.240
<v Speaker 2>think we're like just sort of pointing out the obvious

0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:57.440
<v Speaker 2>in all these different ways. But like the framing of

0:59:57.440 --> 1:00:00.680
<v Speaker 2>it is so interesting because it it's like you're also

1:00:00.800 --> 1:00:03.840
<v Speaker 2>sort of being gas lit by the cast across decades,

1:00:03.920 --> 1:00:07.400
<v Speaker 2>right of being like, well, this isn't an American movie. Meanwhile,

1:00:07.440 --> 1:00:09.720
<v Speaker 2>he's wearing your red wing blue shield. The movie is

1:00:09.760 --> 1:00:15.120
<v Speaker 2>sponsored by the military, and he's it's actually, this is

1:00:15.200 --> 1:00:19.440
<v Speaker 2>just a movie about being a good, awesome guy. You're like, right, right, right.

1:00:19.600 --> 1:00:23.480
<v Speaker 3>I mean, it's not unlike the propaganda that Americans were

1:00:23.520 --> 1:00:24.120
<v Speaker 3>force fed.

1:00:24.240 --> 1:00:27.160
<v Speaker 5>It's the same at the time, and it's the same too. Yeah,

1:00:27.280 --> 1:00:29.680
<v Speaker 5>it's the same shit, and it's like this it's it's

1:00:29.720 --> 1:00:33.800
<v Speaker 5>also the same character. So it's just like silly that

1:00:34.040 --> 1:00:37.440
<v Speaker 5>And I think that, you know, audiences today are kind

1:00:37.480 --> 1:00:40.080
<v Speaker 5>of wiser to it in general.

1:00:41.480 --> 1:00:47.120
<v Speaker 3>Well, I was thinking about this the subsequent Captain America movies.

1:00:47.240 --> 1:00:51.400
<v Speaker 2>Which tell me more because I kind of didn't want

1:00:51.440 --> 1:00:52.200
<v Speaker 2>to learn.

1:00:52.440 --> 1:00:54.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, I can't tell you a lot because I did

1:00:54.960 --> 1:00:57.680
<v Speaker 3>not have time to rewatch them's, but I do think

1:00:57.960 --> 1:01:00.439
<v Speaker 3>thank you so much. But I do think that they

1:01:00.600 --> 1:01:06.800
<v Speaker 3>get less and less pro American military propaganda as they go.

1:01:07.840 --> 1:01:10.800
<v Speaker 3>I have a pretty decent handle on Captain America's Civil War,

1:01:10.840 --> 1:01:13.560
<v Speaker 3>because I have watched that one multiple times, but I

1:01:13.640 --> 1:01:17.280
<v Speaker 3>don't really remember Winter Soldier at all. That's the second one,

1:01:18.080 --> 1:01:23.680
<v Speaker 3>Bucky Barnes, right, Yeah, so he survives falling into the ravine,

1:01:24.400 --> 1:01:29.760
<v Speaker 3>he gets captured, and he's given maybe like different plot

1:01:29.960 --> 1:01:33.680
<v Speaker 3>goo or something to turn him into the Winter Soldier,

1:01:33.760 --> 1:01:37.400
<v Speaker 3>which is he becomes a bad guy, but then he

1:01:37.440 --> 1:01:40.120
<v Speaker 3>becomes a good guy again eventually blah blah blah. Again,

1:01:40.120 --> 1:01:43.920
<v Speaker 3>I don't remember the specifics, so mcu heads don't come

1:01:43.960 --> 1:01:44.240
<v Speaker 3>for me.

1:01:45.400 --> 1:01:47.880
<v Speaker 2>Also, there is, just for what it's worth, there is

1:01:47.960 --> 1:01:51.080
<v Speaker 2>like a disagreement on whether just going back to like

1:01:51.080 --> 1:01:55.360
<v Speaker 2>the enlistment versus draft, there is a disagreement on whether

1:01:55.520 --> 1:01:59.240
<v Speaker 2>Bucky volunteered or drafted. It's interestingly, and maybe this is

1:01:59.240 --> 1:02:01.760
<v Speaker 2>actually relevant what we're talking about. I think that that

1:02:01.880 --> 1:02:05.280
<v Speaker 2>we're first told he was drafted, and later that's revised

1:02:05.360 --> 1:02:09.640
<v Speaker 2>to he enlisted, which feels intentional. But there's two versions

1:02:09.640 --> 1:02:11.720
<v Speaker 2>of the story. The original one was that he was drafted,

1:02:12.000 --> 1:02:16.320
<v Speaker 2>which shockingly, actually there was more nuance when this character

1:02:16.400 --> 1:02:19.400
<v Speaker 2>was created maybe than there is now.

1:02:20.640 --> 1:02:23.440
<v Speaker 3>There you go all this to say, the sequels are

1:02:23.440 --> 1:02:26.000
<v Speaker 3>a bit foggy in my brain, but I feel like

1:02:26.240 --> 1:02:29.440
<v Speaker 3>once we start getting the movies where Captain America is

1:02:29.520 --> 1:02:34.200
<v Speaker 3>in modern times, there's less of an overt pro American

1:02:34.240 --> 1:02:38.760
<v Speaker 3>military sentiment in those movies. But the main thing I

1:02:38.800 --> 1:02:41.040
<v Speaker 3>wanted to talk about regarding the sequels, which is something

1:02:41.040 --> 1:02:45.680
<v Speaker 3>we've already alluded to, is the fourth movie that came

1:02:45.720 --> 1:02:50.760
<v Speaker 3>out last year, the Anthony mackiew one called Brave New World. However,

1:02:50.800 --> 1:02:53.120
<v Speaker 3>I did not see that movie because there was a

1:02:53.120 --> 1:02:56.680
<v Speaker 3>call for a boycott because it features a character named

1:02:56.840 --> 1:03:00.000
<v Speaker 3>Sabra who is in the comics as a mosad age

1:03:00.880 --> 1:03:04.240
<v Speaker 3>who is framed as a superhero, so not a villain.

1:03:04.960 --> 1:03:05.680
<v Speaker 2>Ah.

1:03:05.840 --> 1:03:09.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So when it was announced that this character would

1:03:09.240 --> 1:03:12.400
<v Speaker 3>be included in Captain America Brave New World, I think

1:03:12.440 --> 1:03:16.960
<v Speaker 3>that announcement was made in twenty twenty two, people protested

1:03:17.800 --> 1:03:23.479
<v Speaker 3>and Marvel responded by being like, no, don't worry, We're

1:03:23.520 --> 1:03:28.560
<v Speaker 3>taking a new approach to that character. Sabra is not

1:03:28.800 --> 1:03:34.080
<v Speaker 3>Masad anymore in the movie. She works for the US government.

1:03:35.240 --> 1:03:39.120
<v Speaker 3>But that was not good enough because simply the inclusion

1:03:39.200 --> 1:03:42.480
<v Speaker 3>of this character at all, considering the history and the

1:03:42.520 --> 1:03:46.120
<v Speaker 3>context of this character and the fact that she was

1:03:46.160 --> 1:03:50.080
<v Speaker 3>played by an Israeli actor in the movie. Tells you

1:03:50.160 --> 1:03:53.600
<v Speaker 3>what you need to know about Marvel Studio's stance on.

1:03:53.720 --> 1:03:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Well and again, it's like when you consider the fact

1:03:57.360 --> 1:04:00.800
<v Speaker 2>that they work so closely, not only with with Disney,

1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:03.880
<v Speaker 2>but with I mean they're owned by Disney and they

1:04:04.360 --> 1:04:07.040
<v Speaker 2>literally work with the American military. Of course they are

1:04:07.080 --> 1:04:13.160
<v Speaker 2>not going to take any meaningful critique seriously. And there's more.

1:04:14.080 --> 1:04:20.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yay, yeah, okay. So Marvel Studios has broader ties

1:04:20.120 --> 1:04:24.560
<v Speaker 3>to Israel because it was founded by a guy named

1:04:24.680 --> 1:04:28.960
<v Speaker 3>Avi Arad, who was also the former chairman and former

1:04:29.040 --> 1:04:33.600
<v Speaker 3>CEO of Marvel Studios. Before that, he was the chief

1:04:33.640 --> 1:04:37.400
<v Speaker 3>creative officer of Marvel Entertainment, which was the predecessor to

1:04:37.680 --> 1:04:43.200
<v Speaker 3>Marvel Studios. And he is Israeli. He was born in

1:04:43.600 --> 1:04:46.040
<v Speaker 3>Israel in nineteen forty eight, which is the same year

1:04:46.280 --> 1:04:49.440
<v Speaker 3>as the Nakba. He is a former member of the

1:04:49.480 --> 1:04:54.840
<v Speaker 3>IDF and he remains deeply, deeply pro Israel. So the

1:04:55.000 --> 1:05:00.600
<v Speaker 3>founder of Marvel Studios is a raging Zionist. Well, it's

1:05:00.600 --> 1:05:02.920
<v Speaker 3>something I did not know until quite recently.

1:05:03.400 --> 1:05:08.760
<v Speaker 2>I just learned it. Well, Jesus fucking Christ, there you go,

1:05:08.920 --> 1:05:12.800
<v Speaker 2>there you go. Yeah, also worth mentioning because we're talking

1:05:12.800 --> 1:05:17.160
<v Speaker 2>about American propaganda that you know, if you haven't seen

1:05:17.240 --> 1:05:21.800
<v Speaker 2>the most recent UN report on Gaza, that is confirmed,

1:05:21.920 --> 1:05:25.920
<v Speaker 2>not that the US is going to meaningfully recognize as

1:05:26.000 --> 1:05:28.280
<v Speaker 2>the highest level, but that there have been over seventy

1:05:28.320 --> 1:05:33.600
<v Speaker 2>thousand people killed by Israel in Gaza, of course assisted

1:05:33.640 --> 1:05:37.840
<v Speaker 2>by the US, and twenty thousand children. So I mean,

1:05:37.920 --> 1:05:40.720
<v Speaker 2>protesting a Captain American movie is It's a small thing,

1:05:40.760 --> 1:05:43.160
<v Speaker 2>but it is. It is meaningful because it's like you

1:05:43.200 --> 1:05:47.960
<v Speaker 2>are protesting propaganda. Yes that I didn't realize how to

1:05:48.120 --> 1:05:51.880
<v Speaker 2>its core that propaganda is, but thank you for that

1:05:52.040 --> 1:05:59.600
<v Speaker 2>very frustrating fact. Yeah, yeah, I think that. On that note,

1:05:59.720 --> 1:06:02.720
<v Speaker 2>it's worth acknowledging, which we've talked about in a number

1:06:02.800 --> 1:06:08.160
<v Speaker 2>of episodes, the Marvel military industrial complex, which is not

1:06:08.240 --> 1:06:10.400
<v Speaker 2>limited to Marvel movies, but they are. They certainly do

1:06:10.520 --> 1:06:14.800
<v Speaker 2>stand out and something that we have talked about the

1:06:14.840 --> 1:06:19.800
<v Speaker 2>development of the military's involvement in Hollywood sort of started

1:06:20.560 --> 1:06:25.320
<v Speaker 2>with their recognizing the success of Top Gun and forming this, yeah,

1:06:26.040 --> 1:06:29.919
<v Speaker 2>forming this industry around Top Gun. So we talk about

1:06:29.920 --> 1:06:32.040
<v Speaker 2>that in our Top Gun episode. But you know, by

1:06:32.080 --> 1:06:34.640
<v Speaker 2>the time that this movie comes out, there was already

1:06:34.640 --> 1:06:37.960
<v Speaker 2>precedent for this because the American military had been involved

1:06:38.360 --> 1:06:41.040
<v Speaker 2>in Iron Man in two thousand and eight, so from

1:06:41.040 --> 1:06:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the very beginning of the MCU, the military was present.

1:06:45.640 --> 1:06:49.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm pulling here from a piece in Inkstick Media from

1:06:50.200 --> 1:06:54.600
<v Speaker 2>last year by Ashley Gate just a little bit of

1:06:55.000 --> 1:06:58.120
<v Speaker 2>reference to the movies that they single out as being

1:06:58.480 --> 1:07:01.600
<v Speaker 2>made with not just the endorse of, but financial support

1:07:01.720 --> 1:07:05.800
<v Speaker 2>from the US military. Are as follows this movie Captain

1:07:05.840 --> 1:07:10.400
<v Speaker 2>America and its sequel. I believe the first one Captain Marvel,

1:07:10.480 --> 1:07:12.320
<v Speaker 2>which I don't think we talked about on our Captain

1:07:12.320 --> 1:07:14.880
<v Speaker 2>Marvel episode, and that is one that I would like

1:07:14.920 --> 1:07:19.360
<v Speaker 2>to redo at some point, and Iron Man one and two,

1:07:20.320 --> 1:07:23.360
<v Speaker 2>so that only seems like five. Maybe they meant both

1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Captain America sequels. I'm not totally sure. In any case,

1:07:26.840 --> 1:07:29.240
<v Speaker 2>those are the Marvel movies that were made not just

1:07:29.280 --> 1:07:33.439
<v Speaker 2>with the approval but the financial support. What does that mean?

1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:36.000
<v Speaker 2>We will remind you, and I'm quoting from the piece here.

1:07:36.360 --> 1:07:40.160
<v Speaker 2>By subsidizing military hardware, allowing media conglomerates to film on

1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:43.880
<v Speaker 2>military basis, and facilitating the recruitment of off duty soldiers

1:07:43.920 --> 1:07:47.440
<v Speaker 2>as extras, the Pentagon validates the movie script and weighs

1:07:47.480 --> 1:07:51.080
<v Speaker 2>in to approve the final film with advanced viewings. So

1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:56.560
<v Speaker 2>we will probably never know. But if there was ever

1:07:56.720 --> 1:07:59.880
<v Speaker 2>a version of this script or a version of the

1:08:00.120 --> 1:08:04.640
<v Speaker 2>conception of this movie that involved a critique of American propaganda,

1:08:05.200 --> 1:08:08.400
<v Speaker 2>it was long, long, long gone before it reaches people,

1:08:08.440 --> 1:08:12.360
<v Speaker 2>because the Pentagon gets to sign off on this, which

1:08:12.440 --> 1:08:15.280
<v Speaker 2>means that we're seeing something that is explicitly shaped by

1:08:15.280 --> 1:08:20.679
<v Speaker 2>the state, and that is propaganda. Yeah, it's a really

1:08:20.840 --> 1:08:25.000
<v Speaker 2>it's a really interesting piece and we can also and

1:08:25.040 --> 1:08:28.599
<v Speaker 2>I'll just send the link. You know, it goes very deep.

1:08:28.640 --> 1:08:31.000
<v Speaker 2>I know we've talked about it in the I think

1:08:31.000 --> 1:08:34.439
<v Speaker 2>we've talked about it with Transformers movies, with Top Gun,

1:08:34.760 --> 1:08:35.960
<v Speaker 2>with Marvel.

1:08:35.640 --> 1:08:38.400
<v Speaker 3>Independence Day, question Mark.

1:08:38.600 --> 1:08:43.200
<v Speaker 2>Possibly that sounds familiar, I think so, Yeah, because Lindsay

1:08:43.240 --> 1:08:46.000
<v Speaker 2>was on for that episode. Yeah, there's there's a lot

1:08:46.040 --> 1:08:49.720
<v Speaker 2>of history with me. And that's also I think it's

1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:53.920
<v Speaker 2>important to mention a fairly recent development. Top Gun came

1:08:53.960 --> 1:08:57.880
<v Speaker 2>out in the eighties. So even though you know this

1:08:57.920 --> 1:08:59.800
<v Speaker 2>movie is poking a little bit of fun at the

1:09:00.439 --> 1:09:04.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, very prodicious and effective propaganda machine in the

1:09:04.840 --> 1:09:09.040
<v Speaker 2>US of the nineteen forties, it's only become more entrenched

1:09:09.160 --> 1:09:13.040
<v Speaker 2>in Hollywood since then. And if we're like taking an

1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:17.160
<v Speaker 2>even further step back to Disney bought Marvel, you know,

1:09:17.479 --> 1:09:20.720
<v Speaker 2>like in the early Bob Iger era, so whatever, the

1:09:20.760 --> 1:09:24.840
<v Speaker 2>two thousands, but during the forties, during this time that

1:09:24.880 --> 1:09:28.280
<v Speaker 2>this movie is taking place, in both Disney and Marvel

1:09:28.320 --> 1:09:32.920
<v Speaker 2>as separate entities were creating US propaganda. One, I mean,

1:09:33.000 --> 1:09:37.080
<v Speaker 2>Captain America debuts in nineteen forty, shortly before the US

1:09:37.240 --> 1:09:40.040
<v Speaker 2>enters the war, so almost as a like, the movie

1:09:40.120 --> 1:09:44.320
<v Speaker 2>is referencing an Uncle Sam like promotional tool to encourage enlistment,

1:09:45.200 --> 1:09:49.360
<v Speaker 2>and Disney basically put all of their production on hold

1:09:49.560 --> 1:09:52.599
<v Speaker 2>to make propaganda, you know, short propaganda films, which is

1:09:52.640 --> 1:09:57.479
<v Speaker 2>I think some of the only like frequently discussed World

1:09:57.520 --> 1:09:59.960
<v Speaker 2>War two propaganda or at least that I've learned about,

1:10:00.720 --> 1:10:03.080
<v Speaker 2>is like Donald Duck fighting Hitler and all that stuff.

1:10:03.840 --> 1:10:07.200
<v Speaker 2>All Right, So both of these entities, even before they

1:10:07.200 --> 1:10:12.960
<v Speaker 2>were like merged to create this very boring influential movie

1:10:13.720 --> 1:10:17.960
<v Speaker 2>with the US military, we're doing work for the US

1:10:18.040 --> 1:10:23.000
<v Speaker 2>military that just presents the narrative that serves the American

1:10:23.479 --> 1:10:28.040
<v Speaker 2>military machine, you know. And I'll say again, all of

1:10:28.080 --> 1:10:31.080
<v Speaker 2>this is true, and it's great to see someone punch

1:10:31.160 --> 1:10:34.559
<v Speaker 2>Hitler in the face night after night, but we have

1:10:34.640 --> 1:10:36.599
<v Speaker 2>to be able to contain multitudes here.

1:10:36.960 --> 1:10:42.600
<v Speaker 3>Yes, well, and this propaganda extends to certain plot points

1:10:42.720 --> 1:10:47.320
<v Speaker 3>or characters in the movie, And yeah, I'm sure there

1:10:47.320 --> 1:10:51.160
<v Speaker 3>are ones that I am forgetting or maybe even missed,

1:10:51.200 --> 1:10:57.760
<v Speaker 3>But two big ones that I clocked are basically the

1:10:57.760 --> 1:11:02.800
<v Speaker 3>movie presenting the idea of of technologically advanced bombs that

1:11:02.880 --> 1:11:05.879
<v Speaker 3>you drop on an entire city that can kill hundreds

1:11:05.920 --> 1:11:09.439
<v Speaker 3>of thousands of people at once. The US would never

1:11:09.560 --> 1:11:13.759
<v Speaker 3>do that. That's something that the Nazis would do. That's hi, Tricia.

1:11:13.840 --> 1:11:19.320
<v Speaker 3>And not to downplay the abject horror of what Nazis

1:11:19.479 --> 1:11:22.080
<v Speaker 3>did do, but this movie doesn't seem to want to

1:11:22.080 --> 1:11:25.640
<v Speaker 3>admit that the US what kills civilia do something like

1:11:25.720 --> 1:11:27.320
<v Speaker 3>that and did do something like that.

1:11:27.640 --> 1:11:27.960
<v Speaker 2>I e.

1:11:28.240 --> 1:11:32.400
<v Speaker 3>Hiroshima and Nagasaki killing hundreds of thousands of civilians. So

1:11:32.439 --> 1:11:36.120
<v Speaker 3>the movie just like taking atrocities committed by the US

1:11:36.600 --> 1:11:40.240
<v Speaker 3>and making that something that the enemy would do. And

1:11:40.280 --> 1:11:42.840
<v Speaker 3>then I also feel like the movie tries to kind

1:11:42.880 --> 1:11:47.759
<v Speaker 3>of rewrite history with its treatment of the Japanese American

1:11:47.840 --> 1:11:51.200
<v Speaker 3>character in the movie. The character's name is Jim Marita

1:11:51.880 --> 1:11:55.760
<v Speaker 3>played by an actor named Kenneth Choi, where in the

1:11:55.800 --> 1:11:59.559
<v Speaker 3>movie he becomes good buddies with Captain America and he

1:11:59.640 --> 1:12:04.480
<v Speaker 3>becomes a war hero, omitting the fact that Japanese Americans

1:12:04.479 --> 1:12:07.479
<v Speaker 3>were put in internment camps during World War Two.

1:12:07.760 --> 1:12:12.160
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean truly locally. I portions of Griffith Park

1:12:12.760 --> 1:12:15.759
<v Speaker 2>in like our own community, were used as Japanese internment

1:12:15.800 --> 1:12:20.400
<v Speaker 2>camps and it is still just wildly under discussed in

1:12:20.439 --> 1:12:25.000
<v Speaker 2>the US. Yeah, Like, you're totally right, Like there's all

1:12:25.040 --> 1:12:29.040
<v Speaker 2>of these things that are presented over half a century

1:12:29.120 --> 1:12:31.599
<v Speaker 2>later at the time. By the time this movie comes out,

1:12:32.120 --> 1:12:35.040
<v Speaker 2>with full knowledge of you know, the Pentagon is well

1:12:35.080 --> 1:12:38.439
<v Speaker 2>aware of the atrocities that America has wrought on other

1:12:38.840 --> 1:12:44.200
<v Speaker 2>nations and its own people. But they gave money to

1:12:44.680 --> 1:12:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Captain America so that they could use a fucking military

1:12:48.000 --> 1:12:53.240
<v Speaker 2>bunker or whatever the hell. I just it's miserable. I

1:12:53.280 --> 1:12:56.439
<v Speaker 2>wanted to touch on just really quickly, and I've done nowhere

1:12:56.479 --> 1:13:00.600
<v Speaker 2>near a deep dive to this for comic book fans

1:13:02.080 --> 1:13:05.160
<v Speaker 2>that it does seem like in the you know, over

1:13:05.240 --> 1:13:08.000
<v Speaker 2>eighty years of this character has existed, there have been

1:13:08.040 --> 1:13:12.840
<v Speaker 2>moments where there's been at least an attempt at introspection

1:13:13.479 --> 1:13:15.439
<v Speaker 2>on the part of this character. One thing that I

1:13:15.640 --> 1:13:20.000
<v Speaker 2>found interesting and didn't go very deep into, but there

1:13:20.080 --> 1:13:23.040
<v Speaker 2>was a series of Captain America comics in the seventies

1:13:23.560 --> 1:13:29.439
<v Speaker 2>in which nineteen seventies Captain America is fighting nineteen fifties

1:13:29.640 --> 1:13:34.400
<v Speaker 2>Captain America. So they're literally, yeah, like Captain America is

1:13:34.880 --> 1:13:38.920
<v Speaker 2>at war with himself and there, I mean, they're.

1:13:38.680 --> 1:13:39.840
<v Speaker 3>So war much.

1:13:41.120 --> 1:13:45.439
<v Speaker 2>I guess self war like whatever. I mean. I didn't

1:13:45.479 --> 1:13:48.120
<v Speaker 2>get too deep into it, but there have been, you know,

1:13:48.280 --> 1:13:52.320
<v Speaker 2>in the nearly century that this character has existed, writers

1:13:52.400 --> 1:13:55.320
<v Speaker 2>and people who have tried to sort of reckon with

1:13:55.760 --> 1:13:59.240
<v Speaker 2>what has this character represented versus what does this character

1:13:59.280 --> 1:14:02.920
<v Speaker 2>represent now? Because you know, characters like this and I

1:14:03.280 --> 1:14:06.360
<v Speaker 2>like whatever. Read Raw Dog if you want to know.

1:14:06.840 --> 1:14:11.720
<v Speaker 2>But like, you know, these symbols, of these nationalistic symbols,

1:14:12.000 --> 1:14:14.320
<v Speaker 2>they do have changing meanings as time goes on, and

1:14:14.360 --> 1:14:19.280
<v Speaker 2>it's interesting to see that conversation happen. I'll just leave

1:14:19.280 --> 1:14:21.759
<v Speaker 2>it at that, because clearly that is all very absent

1:14:21.800 --> 1:14:24.720
<v Speaker 2>from this movie, but I will acknowledge that it seems

1:14:24.840 --> 1:14:28.720
<v Speaker 2>as if in comic book world there have been and

1:14:28.800 --> 1:14:31.320
<v Speaker 2>it seems like this is also true for characters like Batman,

1:14:31.479 --> 1:14:34.760
<v Speaker 2>like Spider Man. You know, over in a character that's

1:14:34.760 --> 1:14:37.000
<v Speaker 2>existed for nearly one hundred years, there's going to be

1:14:37.080 --> 1:14:40.880
<v Speaker 2>some change in some conversation, sure, but I think it

1:14:41.000 --> 1:14:45.720
<v Speaker 2>is very telling that the most culturally impactful version of

1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:48.920
<v Speaker 2>this character pretty much just retains the values of the

1:14:48.960 --> 1:14:52.599
<v Speaker 2>original unquestioningly. Yeah.

1:14:52.960 --> 1:14:55.840
<v Speaker 3>Shall we talk about Agent Peggy Carter?

1:14:56.840 --> 1:14:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

1:14:59.080 --> 1:15:04.800
<v Speaker 3>Sure, Okay, So I'm more or less just kind of

1:15:05.080 --> 1:15:09.880
<v Speaker 3>recapped the main beats that she's in, so just to

1:15:09.960 --> 1:15:16.240
<v Speaker 3>kind of go through those. She's initially introduced at the

1:15:16.280 --> 1:15:21.600
<v Speaker 3>basic training camp where she's like, I'm the supervisor of

1:15:21.760 --> 1:15:27.240
<v Speaker 3>the science club or whatever. Some guy, some soldier that

1:15:27.800 --> 1:15:35.040
<v Speaker 3>is her subordinate, immediately undermines her, which is perfectly believable given.

1:15:35.000 --> 1:15:38.640
<v Speaker 2>The time and probably still now, but yes.

1:15:38.640 --> 1:15:42.679
<v Speaker 3>Right, and then she responds by punching him to show

1:15:42.920 --> 1:15:47.439
<v Speaker 3>us the audience that she is a strong, independent woman

1:15:47.960 --> 1:15:52.280
<v Speaker 3>hashtag Yeah, so that's our first impression of her. There's

1:15:52.320 --> 1:15:54.439
<v Speaker 3>a scene in the car a little bit after that

1:15:55.120 --> 1:15:57.840
<v Speaker 3>where she is taking Steve to the facility to get

1:15:57.880 --> 1:16:02.719
<v Speaker 3>his super soldier gu injected into him, and he's talking

1:16:02.760 --> 1:16:08.000
<v Speaker 3>about how because he's so small and skinny, no one

1:16:08.200 --> 1:16:12.360
<v Speaker 3>respects him or takes him seriously parentheses because he doesn't

1:16:12.560 --> 1:16:16.479
<v Speaker 3>embody traditional ideals with masculine masculine ideals y.

1:16:16.479 --> 1:16:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Right, which is also you know, at least again as

1:16:20.200 --> 1:16:25.960
<v Speaker 2>far as I understand, probably accurate to the time for sure. Also,

1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:29.639
<v Speaker 2>you know, it's the movie is not interested in Steve

1:16:29.920 --> 1:16:36.000
<v Speaker 2>Rogers until he is traditionally big and brawny and embodies

1:16:36.040 --> 1:16:39.479
<v Speaker 2>the quote unquote all American ideals. So it's like, even

1:16:39.520 --> 1:16:46.080
<v Speaker 2>though he is presented as you know, like lovable and good,

1:16:46.439 --> 1:16:49.720
<v Speaker 2>inherently good, regardless of what he physically looks like, the

1:16:49.800 --> 1:16:53.240
<v Speaker 2>version of him we celebrate very squarely matches. We don't

1:16:53.280 --> 1:16:56.000
<v Speaker 2>celebrate Chris Evan's head on Jeremy Strong's body. And I

1:16:56.040 --> 1:17:00.000
<v Speaker 2>think that's intentional for sure. And Peggy Carter isn't really

1:17:00.040 --> 1:17:03.360
<v Speaker 2>romantically interested in him until he looks like that, because

1:17:03.360 --> 1:17:05.599
<v Speaker 2>he's a head on a pile of tennis balls. Like

1:17:06.080 --> 1:17:08.760
<v Speaker 2>the scene where they're in the car, Oh my god,

1:17:09.040 --> 1:17:12.519
<v Speaker 2>the scene where they're in the car, every angle Steve

1:17:12.600 --> 1:17:15.000
<v Speaker 2>Rogers looks like he is a completely different size. I

1:17:15.080 --> 1:17:17.320
<v Speaker 2>watched that scene. It's the only scene I watched twice.

1:17:17.320 --> 1:17:20.040
<v Speaker 2>It was the only scene I found interesting every new angle.

1:17:20.479 --> 1:17:23.280
<v Speaker 2>There's one scene where he looks he just looks a

1:17:23.360 --> 1:17:27.040
<v Speaker 2>different dimension and his head changes size from angle to ankle.

1:17:27.120 --> 1:17:28.040
<v Speaker 3>It is so.

1:17:30.040 --> 1:17:34.160
<v Speaker 2>Just just really uncanny and like it's it's the Polar

1:17:34.200 --> 1:17:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Express in that car, but you're you're totally right though

1:17:37.240 --> 1:17:38.120
<v Speaker 2>with it. Anyways.

1:17:38.240 --> 1:17:42.080
<v Speaker 3>So, yeah, he's talking about how he's not respected because

1:17:42.360 --> 1:17:47.760
<v Speaker 3>of his perceived lack of masculinity. Yes, Agent Carter responds

1:17:47.960 --> 1:17:51.080
<v Speaker 3>by saying, I know what that's like to have every

1:17:51.120 --> 1:17:55.000
<v Speaker 3>door shut in your face, parentheses, no one respects me

1:17:55.479 --> 1:17:59.080
<v Speaker 3>in this field that I'm in because I'm a woman. Yeah,

1:17:59.120 --> 1:18:03.080
<v Speaker 3>And then Steve responds by being like, yeah, I guess

1:18:03.120 --> 1:18:05.719
<v Speaker 3>I just don't know why you would want to join

1:18:05.760 --> 1:18:10.759
<v Speaker 3>the army if you're such a beautiful dame or woman. Agent,

1:18:11.320 --> 1:18:15.400
<v Speaker 3>you're not a dame. And then she's like, wow, you

1:18:15.640 --> 1:18:18.040
<v Speaker 3>have you have no idea how to talk to a woman,

1:18:18.160 --> 1:18:19.360
<v Speaker 3>do you? And he's like he.

1:18:19.360 --> 1:18:24.760
<v Speaker 2>Says, no, well, no, I mean it's like I don't know.

1:18:24.880 --> 1:18:29.360
<v Speaker 2>It's like there's with Peggy. It's like if you're watching

1:18:29.400 --> 1:18:34.000
<v Speaker 2>with your brain like sort of only softly on, you

1:18:34.040 --> 1:18:37.559
<v Speaker 2>can see you can see the redeeming qualities where you know,

1:18:37.760 --> 1:18:42.160
<v Speaker 2>on its face, you know he is drawn too, and

1:18:42.520 --> 1:18:46.040
<v Speaker 2>like also seems to have a good deal of professional

1:18:46.080 --> 1:18:52.080
<v Speaker 2>respect for Peggy, who is it like hyper competent at

1:18:52.120 --> 1:18:57.519
<v Speaker 2>her job, is confident and like, you know, there, I

1:18:57.560 --> 1:19:00.840
<v Speaker 2>see the argument in any number of early twenty tens

1:19:00.880 --> 1:19:05.000
<v Speaker 2>clickbait that she is an inherently feminist character because she,

1:19:05.840 --> 1:19:07.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, has a job that she is very good at.

1:19:08.800 --> 1:19:12.479
<v Speaker 2>She is drawn to slash quote unquote rewarded with the

1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:18.400
<v Speaker 2>romantic lead of the movie without having to compromise her

1:19:18.840 --> 1:19:19.839
<v Speaker 2>professional position.

1:19:20.800 --> 1:19:26.920
<v Speaker 3>Sure, sure, I'm sure again very twenty tens. Yeah, ideals.

1:19:27.200 --> 1:19:29.439
<v Speaker 2>Sure, I mean, because it's like, ultimately, this is a

1:19:29.479 --> 1:19:32.760
<v Speaker 2>degree of feminism that the Pentagon is signed off on.

1:19:33.000 --> 1:19:35.760
<v Speaker 2>So like when you're like, what what does it mean?

1:19:36.200 --> 1:19:39.200
<v Speaker 3>Right, So just a few more examples of this like

1:19:39.600 --> 1:19:41.760
<v Speaker 3>version of feminism, I guess we'll call it.

1:19:42.160 --> 1:19:42.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

1:19:42.600 --> 1:19:45.360
<v Speaker 3>This scene in the car ends with they're they're kind

1:19:45.400 --> 1:19:48.160
<v Speaker 3>of flirty because they're talking about like, oh, finding the

1:19:48.240 --> 1:19:51.200
<v Speaker 3>right partner to dance with. And the point here is

1:19:51.240 --> 1:19:55.959
<v Speaker 3>that she is clearly being poised as Captain America's love interest.

1:19:56.280 --> 1:19:58.960
<v Speaker 2>But he's got to get big first.

1:19:59.160 --> 1:20:04.600
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Yeah, exactly following his transformation when he becomes a

1:20:04.640 --> 1:20:11.280
<v Speaker 3>super soldier. There's a chase action sequence where Peggy is

1:20:11.720 --> 1:20:15.120
<v Speaker 3>shooting some bad guys and she hits some of them.

1:20:15.160 --> 1:20:18.800
<v Speaker 2>She oh, yeah, she does that classic mixed fee's article

1:20:18.880 --> 1:20:21.320
<v Speaker 2>thing she gets to do, like she gets to do

1:20:21.439 --> 1:20:24.120
<v Speaker 2>one thing. She gets to do one thing, and it

1:20:24.240 --> 1:20:26.760
<v Speaker 2>usually is a kind of cool thing. Unfortunately, she then

1:20:26.920 --> 1:20:30.400
<v Speaker 2>is sort of immediately jettisoned from the scene afterwards, which is, yeah,

1:20:30.439 --> 1:20:31.680
<v Speaker 2>for sure what happens.

1:20:31.479 --> 1:20:34.240
<v Speaker 3>Because what happens is there's a car driving, like one

1:20:34.280 --> 1:20:36.080
<v Speaker 3>of the bad guys is driving a car toward her.

1:20:36.760 --> 1:20:40.479
<v Speaker 3>She's aiming, ready to fire. We've already seen her like

1:20:40.800 --> 1:20:43.800
<v Speaker 3>put a bullet right in a different bad guy's head,

1:20:44.200 --> 1:20:47.559
<v Speaker 3>so we're pretty confident that she can do it again. Yeah. However,

1:20:47.640 --> 1:20:50.120
<v Speaker 3>Steve pushes her out of the way to quote unquote

1:20:50.160 --> 1:20:52.640
<v Speaker 3>save her from being hit by the car, and she

1:20:52.760 --> 1:20:56.320
<v Speaker 3>angrily responds, I had him like I could have done it,

1:20:56.360 --> 1:20:59.639
<v Speaker 3>you know, and he's like sorry and then runs off

1:20:59.680 --> 1:21:04.519
<v Speaker 3>and we follow him. So he basically literally shoves her. Yeah,

1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:07.520
<v Speaker 3>he shoves her out of the story. But it's feminists

1:21:07.560 --> 1:21:09.040
<v Speaker 3>because she didn't like it.

1:21:10.560 --> 1:21:13.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't know it's like, you know, whatever in the

1:21:13.240 --> 1:21:15.519
<v Speaker 2>warped world that this movie is prothetic. I mean, like

1:21:15.760 --> 1:21:19.120
<v Speaker 2>Peggy Carter's shooting Nazis. That's cool. I like that. I

1:21:19.200 --> 1:21:22.160
<v Speaker 2>like to see that. But it's just it's so like

1:21:22.880 --> 1:21:26.080
<v Speaker 2>it is wild how it happens. I think like three

1:21:26.160 --> 1:21:30.559
<v Speaker 2>times where she is present at the like very beginning

1:21:31.080 --> 1:21:34.720
<v Speaker 2>of an action sequence and then is very intentionally removed

1:21:34.840 --> 1:21:37.800
<v Speaker 2>from said action sequence. We're often cutting back to her

1:21:38.560 --> 1:21:42.559
<v Speaker 2>in a work capacity, you know, like she is. We're

1:21:42.720 --> 1:21:44.760
<v Speaker 2>like we cut back to her and she's got like

1:21:44.960 --> 1:21:50.320
<v Speaker 2>a corkboard and she's she's doing corkboard tasks, but she

1:21:50.360 --> 1:21:52.600
<v Speaker 2>doesn't get to participate.

1:21:52.840 --> 1:21:58.040
<v Speaker 3>Right in very like she's on the periphery kind of thing. Yes, yeah, totally.

1:21:58.760 --> 1:22:01.640
<v Speaker 3>Then there's a scene where after we are starting to

1:22:01.680 --> 1:22:05.200
<v Speaker 3>get the sense that they are starting to like each other,

1:22:06.000 --> 1:22:10.720
<v Speaker 3>Captain America gets jealous because he thinks that Peggy and

1:22:10.880 --> 1:22:18.639
<v Speaker 3>Howard Stark are fricking because he doesn't know what fondue is. God,

1:22:18.920 --> 1:22:22.040
<v Speaker 3>So he's jealous, but he responds in such a way

1:22:22.080 --> 1:22:25.920
<v Speaker 3>where he's maybe he just like kind of retreats into himself.

1:22:26.120 --> 1:22:30.320
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't have an outburst. But when the same thing

1:22:30.360 --> 1:22:36.760
<v Speaker 3>happens for Peggy. She responds very irrationally and.

1:22:36.800 --> 1:22:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Hilarically because she almost like shoots him.

1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:45.360
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because what happens here is that Captain America returns

1:22:45.400 --> 1:22:49.000
<v Speaker 3>from the rescue mission where he has saved four hundred soldiers,

1:22:49.760 --> 1:22:55.600
<v Speaker 3>and this random woman who we don't know, throws herself

1:22:55.760 --> 1:22:59.599
<v Speaker 3>at him because he's a hero, and she kisses him,

1:23:00.240 --> 1:23:01.880
<v Speaker 3>which Peggy sees.

1:23:01.800 --> 1:23:04.639
<v Speaker 2>Which she says she's doing for all of the women

1:23:04.720 --> 1:23:11.120
<v Speaker 2>in America because we can't, Oh, well, all the women

1:23:11.240 --> 1:23:14.080
<v Speaker 2>in America aren't aren't here though.

1:23:14.920 --> 1:23:18.679
<v Speaker 3>I have to sexually assault you on their behalf, I.

1:23:18.560 --> 1:23:22.200
<v Speaker 2>Mean yeah, yeah, which obviously is like not how the

1:23:22.280 --> 1:23:25.000
<v Speaker 2>movie views it, but objectively that is sort of what

1:23:25.120 --> 1:23:25.600
<v Speaker 2>that is.

1:23:25.640 --> 1:23:29.400
<v Speaker 3>What's happening anyway, So Peggy sees this, he sees she

1:23:29.840 --> 1:23:34.559
<v Speaker 3>sees them kissing, and now she's jealous, and we understand

1:23:34.600 --> 1:23:37.559
<v Speaker 3>why she might be hurt, of course, but she gets

1:23:37.560 --> 1:23:40.400
<v Speaker 3>so pissed off as if they are already in a

1:23:40.720 --> 1:23:44.519
<v Speaker 3>monogamous relationship, which they are not, and that like he's

1:23:44.600 --> 1:23:48.439
<v Speaker 3>cheating on her, which he is not, because again they're

1:23:48.479 --> 1:23:51.320
<v Speaker 3>not in a relationship. But she's so mad that she

1:23:51.479 --> 1:23:55.439
<v Speaker 3>shoots at him I'm sure he's got the shield that's

1:23:55.439 --> 1:23:58.439
<v Speaker 3>made of vibranium, and she probably knew that she wasn't

1:23:58.560 --> 1:24:02.479
<v Speaker 3>going to kill him, but like her reaction is so

1:24:02.840 --> 1:24:06.960
<v Speaker 3>outsized compared to his, when basically they think the same

1:24:07.000 --> 1:24:09.760
<v Speaker 3>thing is going on with one another, that they're like

1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:14.519
<v Speaker 3>romantically interested in someone other than each other. Yeah, so

1:24:14.560 --> 1:24:17.759
<v Speaker 3>it feels like the movie is saying, well, she's a woman,

1:24:18.160 --> 1:24:22.479
<v Speaker 3>so of course she's going to behave hysterically, especially compared

1:24:22.520 --> 1:24:26.519
<v Speaker 3>to how the man reacts in the same situation. And

1:24:26.560 --> 1:24:29.479
<v Speaker 3>then what happens right after that scene is Howard Stark

1:24:29.680 --> 1:24:34.880
<v Speaker 3>saying to Steve something like us men will never understand

1:24:34.920 --> 1:24:37.240
<v Speaker 3>what's going on in a woman's head.

1:24:37.520 --> 1:24:44.519
<v Speaker 2>For sure. Whatever. Yeah, this is so as far as

1:24:44.520 --> 1:24:48.240
<v Speaker 2>Peggy goes. I mean, we're presented with a pretty like

1:24:48.520 --> 1:24:52.280
<v Speaker 2>basic version of this character in this I did a

1:24:52.360 --> 1:24:54.800
<v Speaker 2>little bit of reading about who Peggy is in the

1:24:54.920 --> 1:25:00.000
<v Speaker 2>wider Marvel world. She is not involved from the job

1:25:00.840 --> 1:25:03.960
<v Speaker 2>of Captain America. In fact, she's introduced about twenty five

1:25:04.040 --> 1:25:10.400
<v Speaker 2>years after Captain America in the sixties. She is a

1:25:10.439 --> 1:25:14.360
<v Speaker 2>member of the French Resistance as a teenager. Prior to

1:25:15.120 --> 1:25:19.880
<v Speaker 2>meeting Captain America, and then after Captain America's flocks off

1:25:19.920 --> 1:25:23.120
<v Speaker 2>to the Cave or whatever, she works with Howard Stark

1:25:23.200 --> 1:25:27.679
<v Speaker 2>and has a long history with the Shield Organization, which

1:25:27.720 --> 1:25:34.320
<v Speaker 2>is of course the Marvel espionage kind of CIA Pentagon approved. Cool.

1:25:34.400 --> 1:25:38.840
<v Speaker 2>They're definitely cool. They're not doing anything fucked up. And

1:25:39.040 --> 1:25:44.479
<v Speaker 2>Nick Fury's there, right, Nick Furies Cool. So anyways, like

1:25:44.520 --> 1:25:48.000
<v Speaker 2>she has more of a character, and I know that.

1:25:48.040 --> 1:25:50.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure there's a ton of specifics that I am

1:25:50.360 --> 1:25:52.760
<v Speaker 2>not aware of. It's also fleshed out not just in

1:25:52.760 --> 1:25:56.840
<v Speaker 2>the comic books, but in the TV series Action or

1:25:56.960 --> 1:26:03.080
<v Speaker 2>Agent Action Carter Agent Carter, which also stars Hailey Atwell

1:26:03.280 --> 1:26:08.240
<v Speaker 2>and apparently Chad Michael Murray. Oh, Chad Michael Murray is

1:26:08.280 --> 1:26:11.680
<v Speaker 2>in the MCU. Wow, did not know that.

1:26:11.720 --> 1:26:12.280
<v Speaker 3>I know that.

1:26:12.560 --> 1:26:15.439
<v Speaker 2>But she she appears all over the MCU, and I

1:26:15.439 --> 1:26:18.360
<v Speaker 2>think she is sort of presented as this, you know,

1:26:18.600 --> 1:26:22.479
<v Speaker 2>I think she's presented as a feminist ideal throughout a

1:26:22.520 --> 1:26:25.080
<v Speaker 2>few different generations. The version we get of her here

1:26:25.200 --> 1:26:29.280
<v Speaker 2>is the twenty tens version, which is you know, and

1:26:29.680 --> 1:26:33.680
<v Speaker 2>actually Haley Atwell mentions this in her conception of or

1:26:33.680 --> 1:26:37.080
<v Speaker 2>her interpretation of the character. I'm pulling this from Scholarly

1:26:37.160 --> 1:26:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Journal Wikipedia.

1:26:38.280 --> 1:26:40.600
<v Speaker 3>I copied and pasted the same quote.

1:26:40.880 --> 1:26:45.559
<v Speaker 2>The Ginger Rogers quote. You know that she can do

1:26:45.680 --> 1:26:48.200
<v Speaker 2>everything in Captain America does, but backwards and in heels,

1:26:48.240 --> 1:26:51.600
<v Speaker 2>and so that is, you know, I think again, I

1:26:51.600 --> 1:26:54.280
<v Speaker 2>don't think that that is an anti feminist statement or

1:26:54.280 --> 1:26:56.479
<v Speaker 2>anything like that, but I do think it is a

1:26:56.600 --> 1:27:00.840
<v Speaker 2>very particular way of like in some ways, there's an interpretation.

1:27:01.000 --> 1:27:03.080
<v Speaker 2>I guess that this is having your cake and eating

1:27:03.080 --> 1:27:05.880
<v Speaker 2>it too, right, where you have a character who's shaped

1:27:05.920 --> 1:27:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and conceived of as being progressive for women. I'm gonna

1:27:09.960 --> 1:27:12.240
<v Speaker 2>hold off on the word feminist. I guess its progressive

1:27:13.080 --> 1:27:17.960
<v Speaker 2>and also still is very much, you know, abiding by

1:27:18.000 --> 1:27:21.519
<v Speaker 2>the beauty ideals of both that time and our time.

1:27:22.280 --> 1:27:24.799
<v Speaker 2>And I will say that that is also very true

1:27:25.000 --> 1:27:28.840
<v Speaker 2>for Captain America. I think, sure, there's a lot of

1:27:29.479 --> 1:27:33.439
<v Speaker 2>aggressive gender conformity in this movie, and it is not

1:27:33.960 --> 1:27:37.200
<v Speaker 2>I don't even think Peggy Carter is necessarily catching it

1:27:37.640 --> 1:27:40.680
<v Speaker 2>worse than Captain America. However, Captain America is the one

1:27:40.720 --> 1:27:44.040
<v Speaker 2>that gets to execute the plot, and Peggy Carter, I

1:27:44.040 --> 1:27:46.639
<v Speaker 2>think we're told, we're led to believe she is far

1:27:46.680 --> 1:27:49.120
<v Speaker 2>more involved in the plot of the movie than you know,

1:27:49.160 --> 1:27:52.559
<v Speaker 2>screen time wise and action wise, she actually is.

1:27:53.400 --> 1:27:56.760
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly like And this is like, I feel like,

1:27:56.920 --> 1:28:00.760
<v Speaker 3>pretty specific to the early two thousand because I think

1:28:00.800 --> 1:28:03.320
<v Speaker 3>by the time we get to the late twenty tens,

1:28:03.400 --> 1:28:06.360
<v Speaker 3>this we have Captain Martin has already shifted a little bit, right,

1:28:06.439 --> 1:28:11.360
<v Speaker 3>But in twenty eleven, we're seeing we've moved past the

1:28:11.479 --> 1:28:14.960
<v Speaker 3>idea of a woman in an action movie simply just

1:28:15.040 --> 1:28:17.759
<v Speaker 3>being there to be the love interest of a man

1:28:18.240 --> 1:28:21.120
<v Speaker 3>who gets damseled and has to be saved and otherwise

1:28:21.360 --> 1:28:22.360
<v Speaker 3>does nothing.

1:28:22.320 --> 1:28:25.000
<v Speaker 2>For the most part, for the most part, because I mean,

1:28:25.479 --> 1:28:29.240
<v Speaker 2>we're still the early Nolan and Batman movies are not

1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:30.360
<v Speaker 2>too far behind.

1:28:30.120 --> 1:28:33.920
<v Speaker 3>Us, true, true, true, true, Yeah, but we are seeing

1:28:34.040 --> 1:28:36.880
<v Speaker 3>we are starting to see a shift. So yeah, maybe

1:28:36.920 --> 1:28:39.439
<v Speaker 3>we haven't fully moved past it, but we are starting

1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:42.320
<v Speaker 3>to see a shift where, oh, we can't just damsel

1:28:42.360 --> 1:28:45.720
<v Speaker 3>a woman. We have to let her participate in some

1:28:45.800 --> 1:28:49.160
<v Speaker 3>of the action. We have to let her be smart

1:28:49.240 --> 1:28:53.639
<v Speaker 3>and sassy or something like that. We can even give

1:28:53.680 --> 1:28:56.120
<v Speaker 3>her a gun, we can even let her shoot some

1:28:56.520 --> 1:29:01.760
<v Speaker 3>people and stuff, But ultimately we can't let her move

1:29:01.800 --> 1:29:04.479
<v Speaker 3>the story forward in any meaningful way. We can't really

1:29:04.479 --> 1:29:09.759
<v Speaker 3>give her any characterization outside of some very surface level stuff,

1:29:09.800 --> 1:29:14.280
<v Speaker 3>and then also being the love interest of the male hero,

1:29:15.040 --> 1:29:18.320
<v Speaker 3>we can't give her any interiority or stakes or anything

1:29:18.400 --> 1:29:23.519
<v Speaker 3>like that. So yeah, it's reflective of an interesting I

1:29:23.560 --> 1:29:29.160
<v Speaker 3>guess time in like representation of women in action movies.

1:29:29.439 --> 1:29:31.800
<v Speaker 2>It's a very in between e moment, and you're totally right,

1:29:31.800 --> 1:29:35.520
<v Speaker 2>like by the end of the decade, the goalpost has shifted.

1:29:36.240 --> 1:29:38.880
<v Speaker 2>But I mean, yeah, I just really want to So

1:29:39.240 --> 1:29:42.280
<v Speaker 2>listeners were planning on, like before the end of the year,

1:29:42.479 --> 1:29:45.160
<v Speaker 2>sort of doing this series on the main feed where

1:29:45.160 --> 1:29:49.759
<v Speaker 2>we like revisit a movie that centers on a character

1:29:49.800 --> 1:29:52.360
<v Speaker 2>of a marginalized gender from every year of the show

1:29:52.400 --> 1:29:55.840
<v Speaker 2>as a part of our ten year celebration, Sean, and

1:29:56.200 --> 1:29:58.720
<v Speaker 2>I'm like very eager as much as I know I'll

1:29:58.720 --> 1:30:02.479
<v Speaker 2>find them infuriating to go back to Wonder Woman and

1:30:02.520 --> 1:30:05.800
<v Speaker 2>Captain Marvel, because I mean, for and those are very

1:30:05.800 --> 1:30:10.000
<v Speaker 2>different discussions, but just from the framework of like what

1:30:10.080 --> 1:30:13.880
<v Speaker 2>does Pentagon approved feminism and how does that sort of

1:30:13.920 --> 1:30:20.040
<v Speaker 2>evolve over time, I think it is like very telling. Anyways, Yeah,

1:30:20.120 --> 1:30:25.080
<v Speaker 2>I think that I understand why Peggy was a well

1:30:25.120 --> 1:30:29.280
<v Speaker 2>received character at the time. Because I think that this

1:30:29.640 --> 1:30:34.320
<v Speaker 2>type of character was still considered fairly novel, like a

1:30:34.360 --> 1:30:38.479
<v Speaker 2>woman having any agency in an action movie. Not to

1:30:38.479 --> 1:30:41.240
<v Speaker 2>say it was unheard of, but it was still I

1:30:41.240 --> 1:30:47.680
<v Speaker 2>think quite rare. So I understand why look like we're

1:30:47.760 --> 1:30:52.280
<v Speaker 2>sometimes we cling to things because YadA YadA, because there's

1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:56.880
<v Speaker 2>no alternative, at least in mainstream media. But I think, yeah,

1:30:56.920 --> 1:30:59.400
<v Speaker 2>with the with the benefit of time, this is you know,

1:30:59.520 --> 1:31:02.920
<v Speaker 2>state of her feminism, So what is it really what

1:31:02.960 --> 1:31:06.320
<v Speaker 2>does it mean? What is she being feminist in service

1:31:06.520 --> 1:31:12.599
<v Speaker 2>of et cetera. But yeah, and again same with Captain Marvel.

1:31:12.720 --> 1:31:15.160
<v Speaker 2>You know, this character has been around for twenty five

1:31:15.240 --> 1:31:18.479
<v Speaker 2>years less, but that's still a really fucking long time. Yeah,

1:31:18.520 --> 1:31:20.880
<v Speaker 2>and I'm sure that if you're a big fan of

1:31:20.920 --> 1:31:23.920
<v Speaker 2>the comics there are examples that provide pushback or more

1:31:23.960 --> 1:31:26.360
<v Speaker 2>contacts that I'm just not aware of. But the Peggy

1:31:26.400 --> 1:31:29.720
<v Speaker 2>we get here. You know, I appreciate that haileyatt Well

1:31:29.800 --> 1:31:32.200
<v Speaker 2>seems to really be doing everything she can with this character,

1:31:32.280 --> 1:31:35.080
<v Speaker 2>but she's just kind of not given enough and I

1:31:35.120 --> 1:31:39.439
<v Speaker 2>don't think that her actions have enough meaningful bearing on

1:31:39.520 --> 1:31:42.479
<v Speaker 2>the plot to you know, consider her, you know, on

1:31:42.640 --> 1:31:44.960
<v Speaker 2>par with Captain America, and it totally makes sense why

1:31:44.960 --> 1:31:48.880
<v Speaker 2>people are kind of shipping Bucky and Captain America together

1:31:48.920 --> 1:31:52.839
<v Speaker 2>more their relationship has more stakes and more time to develop,

1:31:53.080 --> 1:31:53.799
<v Speaker 2>so right.

1:31:54.200 --> 1:31:57.839
<v Speaker 3>And then by the end of the movie, again Peggy

1:31:57.960 --> 1:32:01.960
<v Speaker 3>Carter is she gets over her being so furious at

1:32:02.160 --> 1:32:05.799
<v Speaker 3>Steve Rogers that she shoots at him four times because

1:32:05.800 --> 1:32:11.040
<v Speaker 3>she sees like film footage of Captain America looking at

1:32:11.040 --> 1:32:14.200
<v Speaker 3>a picture of her in his lockett or something.

1:32:14.560 --> 1:32:15.719
<v Speaker 2>I don't find I'm like, does.

1:32:15.640 --> 1:32:18.080
<v Speaker 3>Captain America have a Lockett but he's looking at a

1:32:18.080 --> 1:32:18.559
<v Speaker 3>picture of her?

1:32:18.800 --> 1:32:22.200
<v Speaker 2>No, no, I wrote, I wrote down his masculine lockett.

1:32:22.200 --> 1:32:24.439
<v Speaker 2>I think it's supposed to be like a compass that's

1:32:24.479 --> 1:32:25.559
<v Speaker 2>basically a Lockett.

1:32:25.600 --> 1:32:28.439
<v Speaker 3>Oh sure, yes, boy lockett.

1:32:28.479 --> 1:32:31.680
<v Speaker 2>It's definitely not girly lockett that he has.

1:32:32.360 --> 1:32:35.320
<v Speaker 3>Yes, So she's not mad at him anymore. She's like, Wow,

1:32:35.600 --> 1:32:38.680
<v Speaker 3>he does love me. And then at the end she

1:32:38.960 --> 1:32:41.719
<v Speaker 3>is sort of a part of the big like third

1:32:41.760 --> 1:32:43.840
<v Speaker 3>act battle more so than.

1:32:43.720 --> 1:32:46.360
<v Speaker 2>Other women in Marvel movies. I will say, but.

1:32:46.479 --> 1:32:52.599
<v Speaker 3>Like, definitely one's from around this era, aside from oh

1:32:52.640 --> 1:32:55.960
<v Speaker 3>my god, what the hell is this Scarlett Johansen character's name,

1:32:56.000 --> 1:32:56.880
<v Speaker 3>I don't black Widow.

1:32:57.000 --> 1:33:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, well black Widow. Yeah they acted like Black

1:33:00.280 --> 1:33:02.799
<v Speaker 2>Widow invented febinism in twenty twelve.

1:33:03.439 --> 1:33:07.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we're right. Yeah. But anyway, so Peggy is in

1:33:07.600 --> 1:33:10.240
<v Speaker 3>the big battle sequence at the end, but I was

1:33:10.280 --> 1:33:12.960
<v Speaker 3>also kind of confused by that because she's not really

1:33:13.040 --> 1:33:16.720
<v Speaker 3>a soldier. She's a supervisor, so I don't know why

1:33:16.760 --> 1:33:19.360
<v Speaker 3>she's in combat. But whatever, it's a movie and I

1:33:19.400 --> 1:33:22.240
<v Speaker 3>don't understand. I'm not mad that she's there, but she's

1:33:22.360 --> 1:33:25.679
<v Speaker 3>shooting her gun. She kills some people, but then gets

1:33:25.840 --> 1:33:29.840
<v Speaker 3>relegated to like strictly love interest again when she's like,

1:33:30.080 --> 1:33:30.840
<v Speaker 3>go get him.

1:33:31.000 --> 1:33:33.759
<v Speaker 2>That so annoying, and then.

1:33:33.720 --> 1:33:36.479
<v Speaker 3>Gives him a big smooch and then Tommy Lee Jones

1:33:36.560 --> 1:33:40.000
<v Speaker 3>is like, I'm not gonna kiss you parentheses, yucky, that

1:33:40.040 --> 1:33:40.679
<v Speaker 3>would be gay.

1:33:40.920 --> 1:33:42.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they have to get a no homeow moment in

1:33:42.840 --> 1:33:44.719
<v Speaker 2>because it's twenty eleven. Uh huh.

1:33:44.760 --> 1:33:47.360
<v Speaker 3>And then at the very end, she's on the radio

1:33:47.760 --> 1:33:52.679
<v Speaker 3>with Steve as he's sacrificing himself and crashing the plane

1:33:52.680 --> 1:33:56.120
<v Speaker 3>and she's crying and that's all she gets to do

1:33:56.200 --> 1:33:56.800
<v Speaker 3>with the end.

1:33:57.320 --> 1:34:01.559
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a it's a weird in between place to

1:34:01.760 --> 1:34:05.599
<v Speaker 2>find a woman in a in this genre because she's

1:34:05.680 --> 1:34:08.280
<v Speaker 2>treated like a damsel in distress at more than one point.

1:34:08.320 --> 1:34:10.960
<v Speaker 2>But I wouldn't categorize her as a damsel in distress.

1:34:11.040 --> 1:34:14.840
<v Speaker 2>It's like this bizarre gray area that she's experiencing that

1:34:14.880 --> 1:34:17.639
<v Speaker 2>it's like, I don't know what to make of it,

1:34:17.720 --> 1:34:20.439
<v Speaker 2>but but there it is. Nonetheless there is. I also

1:34:20.439 --> 1:34:24.040
<v Speaker 2>didn't know that she like her younger sister, and then

1:34:24.120 --> 1:34:29.479
<v Speaker 2>later niece becomes another Captain America love address because he's

1:34:29.520 --> 1:34:32.200
<v Speaker 2>a mortal question Mark. There's someone named Sharon Carter.

1:34:32.800 --> 1:34:37.680
<v Speaker 3>Okay, that's kind of none of my biziness. I kind

1:34:37.680 --> 1:34:41.720
<v Speaker 3>of does because he's like kind of cryogenically frozen I

1:34:41.760 --> 1:34:43.960
<v Speaker 3>guess when he crash lands in the ice, but also

1:34:44.920 --> 1:34:48.960
<v Speaker 3>his cells are improved from the goo, and so I

1:34:49.000 --> 1:34:53.599
<v Speaker 3>think he's able to like regenerate and heal and live longer.

1:34:53.680 --> 1:34:56.320
<v Speaker 3>Question Mark. Then I don't know a regular passion.

1:34:56.479 --> 1:34:59.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm just like, there's we talked about this on another

1:34:59.320 --> 1:35:03.080
<v Speaker 2>recent episode where I'm like, I reach like critical mass

1:35:03.080 --> 1:35:06.840
<v Speaker 2>on lore and I'm just like, I, you know what, Like,

1:35:07.080 --> 1:35:09.479
<v Speaker 2>I'm just dealing with the text you've put in front

1:35:09.520 --> 1:35:11.800
<v Speaker 2>of me. I'm not doing homework to watch a movie

1:35:11.840 --> 1:35:14.240
<v Speaker 2>I don't even like. But that's not true. Actually, we

1:35:14.320 --> 1:35:16.880
<v Speaker 2>did kind of a considerable amount of homework for this movie.

1:35:16.920 --> 1:35:20.599
<v Speaker 2>We don't even like, that's our job. What else?

1:35:21.320 --> 1:35:22.439
<v Speaker 3>What else? What else?

1:35:22.479 --> 1:35:24.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't really have a ton else.

1:35:24.400 --> 1:35:28.040
<v Speaker 3>I honestly don't have much else, as aside from just

1:35:28.560 --> 1:35:32.440
<v Speaker 3>pointing out that this is a very white cast.

1:35:32.560 --> 1:35:36.040
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and to speaking to your point. When there are

1:35:36.120 --> 1:35:39.880
<v Speaker 2>non white characters, it is often to make an ahistorical point.

1:35:40.520 --> 1:35:44.040
<v Speaker 3>Right yeah. With the Japanese American character yeh, Jim Rita.

1:35:44.120 --> 1:35:48.160
<v Speaker 3>And then there is a black character who also is

1:35:48.200 --> 1:35:52.679
<v Speaker 3>a part of Captain America's inner circle of soldier buddies.

1:35:53.520 --> 1:35:56.000
<v Speaker 3>We learn a couple of things about him, such as

1:35:56.040 --> 1:35:58.360
<v Speaker 3>he went to Howard University, and he knows how to

1:35:58.360 --> 1:36:02.880
<v Speaker 3>speak German and French. What his name is I don't know,

1:36:03.240 --> 1:36:06.519
<v Speaker 3>because if the movie says it, it's not enough times

1:36:06.560 --> 1:36:11.400
<v Speaker 3>for the audience to remember. And he also is just

1:36:11.479 --> 1:36:15.759
<v Speaker 3>again very much on the periphery. He is a tertiary character,

1:36:16.640 --> 1:36:20.519
<v Speaker 3>as is Jim Marita. And then we don't know anything

1:36:20.560 --> 1:36:22.040
<v Speaker 3>else about them, yay.

1:36:22.520 --> 1:36:24.439
<v Speaker 2>And then every other character is white, and every other

1:36:24.520 --> 1:36:26.240
<v Speaker 2>character is white, and it will remain that way in

1:36:26.240 --> 1:36:30.439
<v Speaker 2>the MCU for some time. And also I mean, this

1:36:30.560 --> 1:36:33.880
<v Speaker 2>is we're running out of time. And also I'm trying

1:36:33.920 --> 1:36:36.040
<v Speaker 2>to stay as focused on this single movie as we can,

1:36:36.240 --> 1:36:39.600
<v Speaker 2>because otherwise it becomes an eight hour of saga. But

1:36:40.360 --> 1:36:42.519
<v Speaker 2>just speaking to like well, I do think it is

1:36:43.120 --> 1:36:48.280
<v Speaker 2>generally positive that the diversity of Marvel movies increased as

1:36:48.360 --> 1:36:52.400
<v Speaker 2>time went on. I think that the reason at least

1:36:52.439 --> 1:36:56.280
<v Speaker 2>to be that Black Panther and the Ryan Coogler installments

1:36:56.880 --> 1:36:59.680
<v Speaker 2>of Marvel are considered to be kind of from what

1:36:59.720 --> 1:37:03.519
<v Speaker 2>I can tell, the meaningful level of inclusion of black

1:37:03.520 --> 1:37:07.320
<v Speaker 2>actors is because there is representation behind the camera as well,

1:37:07.880 --> 1:37:09.920
<v Speaker 2>which is why I think a lot of and this

1:37:10.000 --> 1:37:12.040
<v Speaker 2>isn't even exclusive to Marvel, but why a lot of

1:37:12.080 --> 1:37:15.240
<v Speaker 2>blockbuster representation. I'm also they gave Star Wars ends up

1:37:15.280 --> 1:37:19.599
<v Speaker 2>falling flat or ends up not being meaningful because there

1:37:19.720 --> 1:37:24.759
<v Speaker 2>is very little representation behind the camera, which generally leads

1:37:24.800 --> 1:37:28.200
<v Speaker 2>to people of color in front of the camera getting

1:37:28.240 --> 1:37:31.839
<v Speaker 2>a very very raw deal. Yes, and it does seem

1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:34.639
<v Speaker 2>like based on what I have done some very light

1:37:34.680 --> 1:37:39.839
<v Speaker 2>research on sort of what happens with Anthony Mackie throughout,

1:37:40.479 --> 1:37:42.840
<v Speaker 2>But again I know that there's also a TV show

1:37:42.880 --> 1:37:44.960
<v Speaker 2>that I think attempts to contend with some of the

1:37:45.479 --> 1:37:49.080
<v Speaker 2>institutional racism in America. I don't know how effectively it

1:37:49.120 --> 1:37:50.800
<v Speaker 2>does it. I will not be watching the show.

1:37:52.000 --> 1:37:56.360
<v Speaker 3>Sorry, is that the one with Red Hawkey what's his name?

1:37:56.880 --> 1:37:59.040
<v Speaker 2>No? No, it's not with your I don't think Jeremy

1:37:59.080 --> 1:38:01.799
<v Speaker 2>Renners involved. There was there was a there was a

1:38:01.960 --> 1:38:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Winter Soldier, The Winter Soldier and Captain Whatever. They had

1:38:06.000 --> 1:38:09.680
<v Speaker 2>their own series on Disney Plus got it. But unfortunately,

1:38:09.680 --> 1:38:13.040
<v Speaker 2>I think by the time that even happened, everyone was

1:38:13.040 --> 1:38:15.680
<v Speaker 2>so sick of superheroes that, like, by the time they

1:38:15.720 --> 1:38:19.160
<v Speaker 2>even attempted to say anything, for the most part, most

1:38:19.200 --> 1:38:22.759
<v Speaker 2>people had checked out because they'd watched forty five boring movies.

1:38:24.640 --> 1:38:28.559
<v Speaker 2>So anyways, uh yeah, this is still early in the

1:38:28.600 --> 1:38:33.719
<v Speaker 2>Marvel MCU. It is very white and not really asking

1:38:34.479 --> 1:38:37.280
<v Speaker 2>why that is, But it's because it's just presenting a

1:38:37.320 --> 1:38:42.600
<v Speaker 2>false version of history where everyone was white and volunteered.

1:38:42.040 --> 1:38:43.679
<v Speaker 3>To be a soldier.

1:38:44.360 --> 1:38:47.639
<v Speaker 2>Yes, all right, it does not pass the backdel task.

1:38:47.880 --> 1:38:52.360
<v Speaker 2>It just doesn't close. It just doesn't. Peggy it Miss

1:38:52.479 --> 1:38:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Peggy Smurf.

1:38:54.080 --> 1:38:56.000
<v Speaker 3>She's the only woman in the movie except for that

1:38:56.080 --> 1:38:59.080
<v Speaker 3>other woman who sexually assaults Captain America.

1:38:59.360 --> 1:39:02.400
<v Speaker 2>Yes, and she does so on behalf of all women questions.

1:39:03.160 --> 1:39:05.439
<v Speaker 2>She of course, I think she actually does have a name,

1:39:06.040 --> 1:39:11.280
<v Speaker 2>but it doesn't pass the Bechdel test no nipple scale,

1:39:11.479 --> 1:39:12.599
<v Speaker 2>What do we think?

1:39:12.920 --> 1:39:16.880
<v Speaker 3>Honestly, I can't think of a reason to give it

1:39:17.040 --> 1:39:19.000
<v Speaker 3>any more than zero nipples.

1:39:19.720 --> 1:39:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I guess I'll give it a half nipple. I'm

1:39:24.400 --> 1:39:26.880
<v Speaker 2>going to give it a half nipple because Peggy Carter

1:39:27.160 --> 1:39:33.320
<v Speaker 2>is not a completely helpless, damseled character, which I think

1:39:33.439 --> 1:39:37.400
<v Speaker 2>is meaningful enough even for the time this is released

1:39:37.439 --> 1:39:41.200
<v Speaker 2>into to give that creative decision a nod, even though

1:39:41.200 --> 1:39:44.600
<v Speaker 2>it ends up playing into a lot of erasure of

1:39:44.640 --> 1:39:47.800
<v Speaker 2>what could be more active. And it's pentagon to proof feminism.

1:39:47.920 --> 1:39:49.720
<v Speaker 2>So what does it mean? But I'll give it a

1:39:49.720 --> 1:39:51.519
<v Speaker 2>half for that. I do think that that is at

1:39:51.600 --> 1:39:54.519
<v Speaker 2>least unusual enough fair.

1:39:54.600 --> 1:39:55.559
<v Speaker 3>I will meet you there.

1:39:55.880 --> 1:40:03.320
<v Speaker 2>Okay, fine, Yes, amazing. So one nipple total for Captain America.

1:40:04.040 --> 1:40:05.599
<v Speaker 2>I'm not I don't know I'm gonna I'm not gonna

1:40:05.600 --> 1:40:07.000
<v Speaker 2>give it to anyone. I'm just gonna put it on

1:40:07.000 --> 1:40:09.160
<v Speaker 2>the floor. I'm gonna throw it into the ravine behind

1:40:09.240 --> 1:40:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Bucky Barnes.

1:40:11.320 --> 1:40:15.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. Great, I love it. Yeah, well that's our episode

1:40:15.400 --> 1:40:16.320
<v Speaker 3>on Captain America.

1:40:16.960 --> 1:40:20.719
<v Speaker 2>Everyone, and you know what, you know what you sickos

1:40:20.760 --> 1:40:23.960
<v Speaker 2>on the Matreon. That was an interesting conversation, So if

1:40:24.000 --> 1:40:27.479
<v Speaker 2>you thank you, thank you. And on that note, if

1:40:27.560 --> 1:40:30.080
<v Speaker 2>you want to have a say and what you hear

1:40:30.160 --> 1:40:33.599
<v Speaker 2>on our Matreon and sometimes on our main feed, please

1:40:34.080 --> 1:40:37.640
<v Speaker 2>head over to our patreon aka Matreon. It is the

1:40:37.680 --> 1:40:41.240
<v Speaker 2>best way to support the show is five dollars a month,

1:40:41.240 --> 1:40:44.040
<v Speaker 2>always has been, always will be, and that five dollars

1:40:44.680 --> 1:40:47.679
<v Speaker 2>gets you to bonus episodes a month on a theme

1:40:47.840 --> 1:40:51.160
<v Speaker 2>of either ours or your choosing. Usually, our our matrons

1:40:51.160 --> 1:40:53.400
<v Speaker 2>almost always have a say in either the theme or

1:40:53.439 --> 1:40:56.240
<v Speaker 2>the movies that we're choosing for the theme. We recently

1:40:56.280 --> 1:41:02.479
<v Speaker 2>did Divorce Buery and you also get exclusive updates on

1:41:02.520 --> 1:41:04.000
<v Speaker 2>when we're going on tour and a bunch of other

1:41:04.040 --> 1:41:07.599
<v Speaker 2>fun stuff, So check that out patreon dot com slash

1:41:07.680 --> 1:41:08.640
<v Speaker 2>Bechtel Cast.

1:41:08.640 --> 1:41:12.559
<v Speaker 3>Indeed, and with that should we.

1:41:13.640 --> 1:41:18.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go put my head on jermy Strong's body. Okay,

1:41:18.960 --> 1:41:27.160
<v Speaker 2>kinky okay, also bye bye. The Bechtel Cast is a

1:41:27.200 --> 1:41:31.840
<v Speaker 2>production of iHeartMedia, hosted and produced by me Jamie Loftus and.

1:41:31.880 --> 1:41:36.680
<v Speaker 3>Me Caitlyn Dorante. The podcast is also produced by Sophie Lichtermann.

1:41:36.479 --> 1:41:39.200
<v Speaker 2>And edited by Caitlyn Durrante. Ever heard of Them?

1:41:39.680 --> 1:41:43.120
<v Speaker 3>That's Me? And our logo and merch and all of

1:41:43.160 --> 1:41:46.880
<v Speaker 3>our artwork in fact are designed by Jamie Loftis, Ever

1:41:46.920 --> 1:41:48.360
<v Speaker 3>heard of her? Oh My God?

1:41:48.840 --> 1:41:51.320
<v Speaker 2>And our theme song, by the way, was composed by

1:41:51.320 --> 1:41:55.680
<v Speaker 2>Mike Kaplan with vocals by Katherine Voskrasinski Iconic and a

1:41:55.760 --> 1:41:59.480
<v Speaker 2>special thanks to the one and only Aristotle Acevedo.

1:42:00.080 --> 1:42:03.799
<v Speaker 3>For more information about the podcast, please visit Linktree Slash

1:42:03.800 --> 1:42:04.600
<v Speaker 3>Spectelcast