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Speaker 1: Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and

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Speaker 1: today we're discussing how fees will kill your retirement savings.

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Speaker 1: That's right, Joel, my Norwegian hill host. I'm Padre. We're

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Speaker 1: talking about investing fees, right, fees associated with investing. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about the different types of fees, how to

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Speaker 1: look for those, uh, and then where to go where

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Speaker 1: you can keep those fees. Loo. I think last week

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Speaker 1: on an episode, Matt, you said that I had an

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Speaker 1: interesting kind of gravelly voice because I was slightly under

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Speaker 1: the weather. Oh yeah, I do recall, all right, So

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Speaker 1: it turned out we did have sickness ravaging R ended

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Speaker 1: up being pretty rough. Yea. So my girls they both

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Speaker 1: had strap throat and then on top of it, my

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Speaker 1: three year old had the flu as well. So kind

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Speaker 1: of like double dose of terrible sickness going through and

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Speaker 1: so I'm sure I caught a touch of that and

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Speaker 1: my voice was a little bit off. Um, but I

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Speaker 1: want you guys get the flu shot. I got the

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Speaker 1: flu shot, but I because I get it for free

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Speaker 1: of work, and I don't think the rest of my

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Speaker 1: family did. And I probably should have like drugged them

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Speaker 1: into a Kroger or something like that in order to

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Speaker 1: get the flu shot. But we we just didn't. But

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Speaker 1: at least at the end of the season. And it's

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Speaker 1: too bad right now. Well, when we heard that, that

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Speaker 1: was my first thought. I was like, the freaking flu crap.

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Speaker 1: Did we get the flu shot? Because I figured they

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Speaker 1: would have already caught it, to be honest, But I

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Speaker 1: guess we nearly avoided that one because of the flu shot.

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Speaker 1: I guess it was that same strain because most of

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Speaker 1: the time, isn't it like slightly off, Like you get

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Speaker 1: the flu shot and then it ends up being a

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Speaker 1: different variety of flu that goes around. Yeah, sometimes the

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Speaker 1: flu shot is only a certain percentage effective because they

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Speaker 1: can't quite accurately predict the strains that are going to

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Speaker 1: have to guess which he is going to be the

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Speaker 1: one that yeah, the ones that's popular exactly exactly, Oh

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Speaker 1: you're the cool string this year. But I wanted to

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Speaker 1: mention to people in the case of strep throat, at

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Speaker 1: least when we went to the doctor, we were able

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Speaker 1: to you know, we got a prescription friend of my

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Speaker 1: honor to fight the strip throat, And I wanted to

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Speaker 1: let folks know about free and cheap medications, and in particular,

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Speaker 1: there are certain places that offer much cheaper basic medication

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Speaker 1: than others. And if you, uh, if you have a

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Speaker 1: Publix near you, they're kind of the Southeast Regional grocery chain.

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Speaker 1: You can get free antibiotics, which is really nice. So

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Speaker 1: both girls were able to load up on antibotics for free. Yeah, Julian,

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Speaker 1: you can get those antibotics all the time, right, It's

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Speaker 1: not like it was just a special promotion that they're running.

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Speaker 1: I mean they you can go there pretty much anytime

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Speaker 1: get the antibotics you need. And you can get pet

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Speaker 1: antibiotics there for free as well, so not just human

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Speaker 1: stuff but stuff for your your your dogs. Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that's really cool. And there are lists online and we'll

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Speaker 1: link to one of kind of where you can find

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Speaker 1: cheap and and free prescriptions, like I know, Walmart has

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Speaker 1: a four dollar list of prescriptions that they make available

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Speaker 1: for for four dollars. And then you know, there's also

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Speaker 1: a great app that you can use called good r

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Speaker 1: X and you plug in the prescription that you want

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Speaker 1: to find, and it essentially maps out your town and

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Speaker 1: it says, well, it's eight dollars here and it's thirty

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Speaker 1: two dollars here. You'll be amazed at the disparity in prices.

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Speaker 1: So if you're loyal to one place to get your

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Speaker 1: prescriptions filled, then in all likelihood you're paying too much.

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Speaker 1: The only caveat is if you're getting your prescriptions filled

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Speaker 1: at Costco, you're probably getting the lowest price almost every time.

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Speaker 1: If that's where you're getting your prescriptions filled. Nice. The

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Speaker 1: only other trick then if you're gonna do publics is

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Speaker 1: to make sure that you don't end up kind of

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Speaker 1: shopping around a little bit because your prescription is not filled.

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Speaker 1: Because they're one of like the nicer grocery stores around us, right,

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Speaker 1: they're a lot nicer than Aldi. Uh. I know that

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Speaker 1: you can't get the same deals they got, all those

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Speaker 1: buy one, get one deals, But as far as the

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Speaker 1: the general stuff that we normally get, we've got suckered

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Speaker 1: into kind of walk in the aisles a little bit

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Speaker 1: because it hadn't quite unfilled. And I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: we spent a little more money on groceries than we

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Speaker 1: would have, but hey, we got the free antibiotics, so yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're gonna pay a little more for groceries at publics.

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Speaker 1: But uh, it is truly a nice place to shop,

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Speaker 1: that's for sure. Um. All right, so let's get to

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Speaker 1: the beer that we're having on the show real quick, Matt.

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Speaker 1: Today we're drinking Mint to Guard. It's a beer to

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Speaker 1: Guard agent red Wine Barrels from Brain Dead Brewing Company. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this one was sent to us by Jared. He sent

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Speaker 1: us a several beers a couple of months ago. We

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Speaker 1: had a Jester king on that you are a huge

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Speaker 1: fan of Yeah, I fell in love with it, all right.

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Speaker 1: So we'll get into our thoughts on this beer at

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Speaker 1: the end of the show. But now, Matt, onto the

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Speaker 1: topic of hand. We're talking about why fees are a

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Speaker 1: retirement savings killer. And just a fee of like one

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Speaker 1: percent in your retirement account that doesn't sound all that bad.

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Speaker 1: One percent, right, Like that's that's almost negligible, it seems like,

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Speaker 1: But it turns out that a fee of even just

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Speaker 1: one percent could cost you, potentially depending on how much

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Speaker 1: you're investing, over half a million dollars in actual money

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Speaker 1: back to you over your investing lifetime. Fees not only

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Speaker 1: a road how much money you have to invest now,

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Speaker 1: but they've lessened the amount of money that's compounding in

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Speaker 1: your account for all of the years that you're saving

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Speaker 1: and investing. And it turns out that almost three quarters

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Speaker 1: of folks have no idea what sort of fees are

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Speaker 1: being charged inside of their investment accounts. And we have

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Speaker 1: to change that, Matt. So let's putting up the subject

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Speaker 1: of fees. Let's kind of get into it and help

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Speaker 1: people learn what sort of fees are they're paying currently

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Speaker 1: and then how to avoid them schedule. Nerd Wallet actually

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Speaker 1: has a fantastic article that we're gonna link to in

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Speaker 1: the show notes that breaks down all of this information

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Speaker 1: and they've got some very helpful charts. But we're gonna

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Speaker 1: share a quick example where as an investor, if you

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Speaker 1: put five dollars a month into a brokerage account each

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Speaker 1: year for thirty years, so that's a total of a

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Speaker 1: hundred and eighty thousand dollars right say, over your working career,

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Speaker 1: and during that time, say you're earning seven percent well

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Speaker 1: with a one percent fee, that entire time, the value

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Speaker 1: of your account will have grown to four hundred and

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Speaker 1: eighty nine thousand dollars roughly. But get this, man, you

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Speaker 1: would have lost nine eight thousand dollars to fees close

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Speaker 1: to a hundred k just because of that one percent feet,

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Speaker 1: which is massive. Yeah, that's messed up, man. And it

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Speaker 1: just goes to show you that even and if the

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Speaker 1: fees are higher, some people might be looking at like

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Speaker 1: a one and a half or two percent feet And

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Speaker 1: if that's the case, over your thirty year investing lifetime,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about almost a hundred and eighty thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: on a two percent fee. So fees matter greatly. And

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Speaker 1: it is something that I think we're becoming a little

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Speaker 1: bit more aware of, something that's talked about more and

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Speaker 1: that's partly in thanks to the bigger low cost investment

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Speaker 1: houses like Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab. But you just don't

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Speaker 1: want to end up in retirement with less money than

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Speaker 1: you could have because fees were eating away at it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The problem is too is it's just not something you

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Speaker 1: think about, right, Like you don't look down the road

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Speaker 1: and think, cool, how much less money am I gonna

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Speaker 1: have because I'm not investing maybe quite as wisely or

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Speaker 1: in the funds that I should be. I think a

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Speaker 1: lot of times folks think, oh, I'm putting a lot

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Speaker 1: of money away it's gonna be okay, right, Like I

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Speaker 1: can sort of outsafe and out invests when I'm paying

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Speaker 1: and fees, but you're still gonna lose that money if

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Speaker 1: you have high fees. And again a small fee doesn't

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Speaker 1: seem like a huge deal, but they are the biggest

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Speaker 1: problem and a huge differentiator with how much wealth you

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Speaker 1: will actually have when you do reach retirement, of course,

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Speaker 1: all other factors being equal. Yeah, Matt. So there's this

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Speaker 1: company called morning Star, and what they do is they

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Speaker 1: track and rank different funds according to their performance. And

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Speaker 1: they did a study a few years ago. They have

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Speaker 1: these morning Star, these vaunted morning Star ratings, and it's

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Speaker 1: a star system and they found out, according to their study,

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Speaker 1: that the costs associated with a fund is actually more

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Speaker 1: important than having a higher morning Star Star rating had

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Speaker 1: a larger impact on how successful that fund was and

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Speaker 1: on investor return. So, if you're looking to invest in

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Speaker 1: the stock market and you're looking at the morning Star

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Speaker 1: Star system, which you should, I mean, I think morning

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Speaker 1: Star is helpful. I think they rank funds. Well, should

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Speaker 1: you just say morning Star system? You probably should? Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I just get it out quickly. But I just thought

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Speaker 1: that was interesting that they basically said that fees are

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Speaker 1: more important than the star system that they have so

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Speaker 1: much invested in, so much tied up in. And so

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Speaker 1: I think morning Star is, you know, a great place

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Speaker 1: to research funds, but fees and those matter more than

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Speaker 1: than even the star rating. And so that's something that

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Speaker 1: many people found shocking when that study was released. And

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Speaker 1: I just think it's something that just quantifies exactly how important,

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Speaker 1: you know, fees are too individual mom and pop investors

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Speaker 1: like us and like you know, people listening to this

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Speaker 1: show that that want to just invest inside of their

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Speaker 1: four O and K I A. It only accentuates the

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Speaker 1: fact that they should be paying even more close attention

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Speaker 1: to to the fees that are inside of those investments. Yeah, Joel,

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Speaker 1: But the good news, like you're you're saying though, is

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Speaker 1: that fees are in decline as low cost brokerage firms,

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Speaker 1: they've gotten more popular, they've gained prominence, uh, and they

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Speaker 1: are wanting investors to know more and specifically it's it's

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Speaker 1: sort of like a race to the bottom as far

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Speaker 1: as like what the fees are going to be with

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Speaker 1: the different big brokera ch Hosses, I think of Vanguard

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Speaker 1: and Fidelity, they're essentially anytime they release something new, it's

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Speaker 1: to compete with a specific product. That's like rock and

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Speaker 1: socking robots constantly right now between the two of them exactly.

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Speaker 1: And most recently, I guess was last year Fidelity they

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Speaker 1: dropped the expense ratios on a certain line of funds

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Speaker 1: down to zero, like completely zero, where there is no

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Speaker 1: cost associated with maintaining those funds at all. So after

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Speaker 1: the break, we're gonna talk about the different types of

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Speaker 1: fees associated with investing, as well as how to find

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Speaker 1: those fees that are hiding in your investments. Stick around

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Speaker 1: for that, all right, Matt, we're back from the break

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Speaker 1: and let's get into the types of fees. But before

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Speaker 1: we get to that, I didn't want to just say,

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Speaker 1: just to give a little bit more of a mental picture.

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Speaker 1: When I think about fees, I think of termites. And

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Speaker 1: it turns out that termites can be eating away at

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Speaker 1: the wood in your house for years before you even

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Speaker 1: notice that they're there, before you notice that they're having

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Speaker 1: an impact, and all of a sudden, you know, your

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Speaker 1: foot goes through the floorboard and it's like boom. Instantly

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Speaker 1: you know the you have a problem and that the

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Speaker 1: termites are are eating through your house and you've got

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Speaker 1: to get an exterminator out there. And fees can be

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Speaker 1: like that. They can be kind of this silent killer

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Speaker 1: that you don't see, and that's out of sight, out

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Speaker 1: of mind, and you don't even realize that it is

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Speaker 1: ruining your retirement savings because of like the examples we

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Speaker 1: mentioned just above, it can be costing you fifty a

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand or more over the life of your investment.

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Speaker 1: So let's get into the specific types of fees that

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Speaker 1: are common and the and we'll talk about how to

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Speaker 1: look for fees inside of your retirement account so that

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Speaker 1: you can figure out how to eliminate them. Yes, Joe,

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Speaker 1: let's dive into it. Just keep in mind that this

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Speaker 1: is not going to be an exhaustive list where we

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Speaker 1: name every single fee. We're gonna kind of cover some

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Speaker 1: of the more prominent ones, some of the ones that

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Speaker 1: take the biggest bite out of your investments. So on

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Speaker 1: that note, let's start with brokerage fees. These are the

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Speaker 1: fees charged by the broker that holds your investment accounts.

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Speaker 1: We have talked about this recently, but just think of

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Speaker 1: them as the custodian of that account. To take for example,

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Speaker 1: of Vanguard, they have a twenty dollar a year fee,

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Speaker 1: which isn't huge at all unless you meet certain investing

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Speaker 1: thresholds and then they eliminate it. Yeah, or I mean,

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Speaker 1: and you can meet those thresholds as well by just

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Speaker 1: receiving your statements via email, so it's not difficult at all.

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Speaker 1: But then you've got Fidelity as well, and they've decided

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Speaker 1: that they're not going to have any fees at all. Again,

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Speaker 1: Rock and Stock and robots, they're trying to take each

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Speaker 1: other down. Yeah, it's actually interesting pouring over the fees

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Speaker 1: like brokerage fees and and the other fees that that

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Speaker 1: investment firms charge. I was looking at Vanguards and Fidelities specifically,

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Speaker 1: and honestly, Fidelity is not only doing better on some

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Speaker 1: of the specific fund fees now, but they're doing better

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Speaker 1: on pretty much every single other fee associated with investing

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Speaker 1: if you go with them. And so, yeah, Fidelity has

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Speaker 1: just really picked up the pace in the last year

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Speaker 1: and a half two years. And I love Vanguard. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you and I both are a huge trans vant guard,

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Speaker 1: but Fidelity, man, it's like winning my heart. It's uh

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Speaker 1: they're doing a really impressive thing. So those are still

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Speaker 1: both just great companies with with low fees, and we'll

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Speaker 1: talk more about that in a little bit. So other

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Speaker 1: types of fees that you might encounter when investing is

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Speaker 1: something called a load, and there can be front end loads,

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Speaker 1: there can be back end loads. These are charges or

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Speaker 1: commissions paid to the salesperson who sells you the fund

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Speaker 1: or like a broker if you're going like going through

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Speaker 1: a broker with your investments as well. Yeah, and so

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Speaker 1: these are things that you need to watch out for

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Speaker 1: because let's say you're putting in a thousand dollars, well,

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Speaker 1: they might take out a certain percentage you're right off

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Speaker 1: the front end or off the back end when you

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Speaker 1: sell that investment, and and those loads can massively impact

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Speaker 1: the returns that you see because that's just an other

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Speaker 1: fee that's hanging out. Another fee. Trade commissions. These are

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Speaker 1: the costs association with buying and selling stocks or e

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Speaker 1: t f s. So if you're with a company like

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Speaker 1: e Trade, the minimum that you're looking at spending with

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Speaker 1: a purchase or a sale is five bucks, and that's

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Speaker 1: only if you meet the threshold of something like thirty

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Speaker 1: transactions per quarter or something like that, and it could

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Speaker 1: be even more depending on who you're with. That is

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Speaker 1: not a fee that you need to be paying when

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Speaker 1: you can buy and sell for free. So just keep

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Speaker 1: in mind that the more often that you buy and sell,

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Speaker 1: that's gonna impact how much money you have to actually

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Speaker 1: invest in actual funds or stocks. So you do not

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Speaker 1: want to be buying and selling constantly, uh, and you

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Speaker 1: do not want to be with a provider who charges

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Speaker 1: you for trade commissions. And the most talked about type

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Speaker 1: of fee now, Matt, I feel like it's expense ratios

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Speaker 1: because this is where the Rockham stock on robots is

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Speaker 1: hitting like full bore, and we've just seen expense ratios

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Speaker 1: fall massively over the last few years. So typically, especially

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Speaker 1: with the low cost providers, it's that fee that you'll

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Speaker 1: see touted the most frequently, and especially with Fidelity right

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Speaker 1: now because they have those zero percent funds and will

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Speaker 1: link to those in the show notes. But there's a

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Speaker 1: few funds in particular that they offer that don't have

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Speaker 1: any expense ratio on top of not having any of

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Speaker 1: these other fees that we're talking about, So really it

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Speaker 1: is like you're investing for free. Yeah, it's Scott Clean

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Speaker 1: costing you nothing exactly, And so expense ratios are something

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Speaker 1: you want to look at. And it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: say what a good expense ratio is. Now when you

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Speaker 1: think about the fact that you can invest for free,

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Speaker 1: it kind of makes anything else look expensive, right honestly, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does. Yeah, But I think if you're interested in

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Speaker 1: funds that have an expense ratio of point to five,

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Speaker 1: maybe point three oh or or less, then those are,

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Speaker 1: in all likelihood funds that at least aren't runaway with fees.

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Speaker 1: You want to be cognizant of your fees. But it's

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Speaker 1: also okay to realize that even though fidelities offering it

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Speaker 1: for free, there are a lot of other great institutions

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Speaker 1: that you can do business with that don't have free

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Speaker 1: expense ratios, but they do provide low cost expense ratios,

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Speaker 1: and that's what you want to prioritize. And then lastly, Joe,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna touch on the management fee. And typically this

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Speaker 1: is an annual fee from an investment advisor that can

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Speaker 1: also be from a robo advisor, like if it's not

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Speaker 1: an actual human being, but if it's a person, typically

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Speaker 1: they charge by the percentage of assets under management, or

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Speaker 1: you know, sometimes there's a flat rate as well. But

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Speaker 1: think of it. Maybe it's sort of like the cost

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Speaker 1: of admission, right like just to be seen by that

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Speaker 1: advisor or just to be able to use that robo advisor,

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Speaker 1: there's a price you gotta pay. Sometimes it's an expense

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Speaker 1: or a feed that might be worth it depending on

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Speaker 1: your personal situation. Yeah, there's some great robo advisors to right,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about that in a recent Listener Question

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Speaker 1: episode that you know, robo advisors have a lot to offer,

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Speaker 1: especially for investors that just don't feel comfortable going to

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Speaker 1: d I Y route. Um. We we we like a

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Speaker 1: lot of robo investors. But the thing is you're gonna

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Speaker 1: pay a little bit higher of a fee. But I

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Speaker 1: think you're right, like a little bit higher of a

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Speaker 1: fee as long as it's not astronomical, which most robo

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Speaker 1: advisors it's point to five point three oh something like that,

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Speaker 1: which which is within the realm of normalcy, and and

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Speaker 1: it's okay. I think those are decent options for a

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Speaker 1: lot of investors. Yeah, it's just good to know that

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Speaker 1: those are being taken out right, Like you need to

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Speaker 1: be aware are these fees, and that's what we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about next, actually, is how to look for those fees.

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Speaker 1: And Joel, you're gonna kick that off. Yeah, we just

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Speaker 1: mentioned robo advisors, but then also you might have a

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Speaker 1: financial advisor down the street who who you work with,

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Speaker 1: and their fees are just going to be higher than

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Speaker 1: a robo advisor fees are. And their fees typically if

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Speaker 1: they are a fee only advisor, are going to be

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Speaker 1: a percentage of assets under management. One percent is kind

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Speaker 1: of an average amount. They might charge you a flat

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Speaker 1: rate to sit down with them every year. But then

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Speaker 1: there are other advisors who might take advantage of you

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Speaker 1: with loads and commissions and brokers fees. And so the

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Speaker 1: quickest way to look out for fees in your own

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Speaker 1: retirement account is to ask the question, especially if you're

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Speaker 1: working with an individual who manages your assets. If you

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Speaker 1: have a financial advisor, do you know how they get paid?

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Speaker 1: And if you don't ask, there was a rule called

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Speaker 1: the fiduciary rule that was supposed to go into place

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Speaker 1: last summer and then it kind of got slapped down.

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Speaker 1: So slap down by the courts. Yes, So it's a

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Speaker 1: huge bummer because that is a standard that I think

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Speaker 1: all investment professionals should be required to meet, which means

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Speaker 1: that when they have you as a client, everything they

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Speaker 1: do is in your best interest. And now they don't

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Speaker 1: have to meet that standard, certain investment professionals still hold

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Speaker 1: themselves to that fiduciary standard, and if they do, they

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Speaker 1: will typically put that wording on their website or or

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Speaker 1: let you know up front. Just make sure you ask

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Speaker 1: that question, because if they are, there's a greater chance

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Speaker 1: that the fees aren't going to be as outrageous and

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Speaker 1: they're not gonna be as hidden. But you want to

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Speaker 1: ask about the fees that you're being charged to your

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Speaker 1: investment professional if you have one. So if you aren't

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Speaker 1: sure what fees are are being taken out of your account,

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Speaker 1: it's best to ask the question of whoever you're working with,

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Speaker 1: And if you don't have a financial advisor and you

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Speaker 1: just have like a four one K or an I RA, Matt,

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Speaker 1: how can you figure out what fees are paying inside

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Speaker 1: of you know, one of those vehicles. First of all,

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Speaker 1: if you are with a big bank, or even worse,

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Speaker 1: maybe if you're with an insurance company, it's likely that

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Speaker 1: you are paying higher than average and potentially ridiculous fees

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Speaker 1: could be catastrophic, yeah, really really bad. So what you

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Speaker 1: want to do in those situations are to ask for

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Speaker 1: the disclosures. And chances are I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: don't actually know what their fees are because in those

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Speaker 1: situations where you have your retirement or you have account

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Speaker 1: set up through your work, it's it's hands off, right like,

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Speaker 1: that's sort of one of the benefits is that you've

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Speaker 1: got HR. That's something that they've done for you, and

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Speaker 1: you think, cool, I can get back. We're all in

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Speaker 1: this together, me and all the employees here. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're all investing and doing what we're supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: But what you may not realize is that you all

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Speaker 1: might be paying way too much. So ask for that disclosure.

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Speaker 1: If the fees are high, go to HR and then

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Speaker 1: ask them to shop around to other providers um or

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Speaker 1: at least to include lower cost index funds inside of

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Speaker 1: the plan that you're offered. You can also use a

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Speaker 1: site like bloom and that's actually it's spelled b l

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Speaker 1: o o oh um. There's three oh three oh oh,

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Speaker 1: and they can perform a free analysis of your four

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Speaker 1: one K in five minutes. And it's totally free. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love that. And there's another website fee x f

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Speaker 1: e x uh it's all peak. Yeah, it's also another

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Speaker 1: great spot. Until both of these companies can kind of

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Speaker 1: review your investments and they take a specific look at

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Speaker 1: the fees are inside of them. So if you're having

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Speaker 1: trouble pinpointing the fees within your own retirement plan, it's

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Speaker 1: worth checking out one of these sites and kind of

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Speaker 1: and kind of getting an analysis and seeing, like for free,

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Speaker 1: you know, how bad is the picture we're looking at

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Speaker 1: when it comes to the fees. And once you know

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Speaker 1: exactly the fees that you're paying, it gives you the

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Speaker 1: ability to make some changes and and to opt out

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Speaker 1: of being in funds or doing business with companies that

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Speaker 1: just charge outrageous fees that are ultimately going to hinder

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Speaker 1: your ability to save for the future. So, Joel, your

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Speaker 1: example earlier about the termites made me think of another example. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: like in your example, the termites are more of a

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Speaker 1: hidden fee. But I think sometimes we might even realize

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Speaker 1: that there's a fee there and people just kind of

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Speaker 1: coast along with it. So do we have another animal

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Speaker 1: reference to give? Not animal, but I'm thinking of like

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Speaker 1: taxi cabs, like taxis, they cost a good chunk of money.

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Speaker 1: Now that we have Uber and lift to people still

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Speaker 1: take taxic cab, Yes they do, but then they cost

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. And that's the thing I think.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes folks are just so used to doing what they've

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Speaker 1: always done. Or if you're in like a big city

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Speaker 1: like New York, you order a car right like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, a black car or something like that. I've

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Speaker 1: heard it said before. I've ever done that. But if

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Speaker 1: you're fancy fancy people, But why would you continue to

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Speaker 1: do that when there's technology, uh and companies that have

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Speaker 1: lowered the price and have made it easier and way

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Speaker 1: more affordable to get what you need done while saving

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Speaker 1: a lot of money. So that's what I think of.

430
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:19,879
Speaker 1: I guess when it comes to feast, like, yeah, you

431
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:24,040
Speaker 1: can continue to go to your local advisor who's going

432
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,280
Speaker 1: to charge you every time you know, he sells you

433
00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:28,280
Speaker 1: a certain fund and then on top of that, those

434
00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:30,240
Speaker 1: funds are going to have high expense ratios. Oh and

435
00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 1: by the way, there's gonna be an assets under management

436
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:35,159
Speaker 1: fee as well. That's kind of the old school model, right,

437
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:36,719
Speaker 1: It's sort of like a taxi cab you're gonna pay

438
00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 1: a little a little bit more for like the for

439
00:19:38,440 --> 00:19:41,320
Speaker 1: the yellow checkered cab. Or you can just whip out

440
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,960
Speaker 1: your phone, go to that app and hail a ride

441
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 1: and it's gonna show up. And then you're not gonna

442
00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,200
Speaker 1: waste a lot of money on fees that you didn't

443
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,920
Speaker 1: need to spend. Okay, now that you've given that, Yes,

444
00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,119
Speaker 1: there's one more that I've got and this hit me

445
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:58,679
Speaker 1: with it. This one has another animal reference. So it

446
00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:00,720
Speaker 1: makes me think too if you said doing things that

447
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,560
Speaker 1: what you've always done it, And it makes me think

448
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 1: of that that example of a bull frog in a

449
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:09,880
Speaker 1: pot of boiling water. Yes, if you start the bullfrog

450
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 1: off and he's in a pot of cold water and

451
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,160
Speaker 1: you turn up the heat gradually all the way to boiling,

452
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 1: he will stay in that pot of water and he

453
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:20,199
Speaker 1: will just die. But if a bullfrog is plopped into

454
00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,320
Speaker 1: a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out and he'll live.

455
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,560
Speaker 1: So I think, if you're someone who's been investing for

456
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:27,760
Speaker 1: years and years and years, and maybe you have an

457
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 1: investment professional that you work with, but you might feel

458
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 1: comfortable doing it on your own. You just haven't made

459
00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 1: the plunge. Well, you're like that bullfrog that is eventually

460
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: getting boiled to death because of those fees are are

461
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:41,440
Speaker 1: are crushing you and crushing your returns over time. So

462
00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 1: all right, I like it. Another good example. I think

463
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,880
Speaker 1: I think your metaphor might win in this case. That's

464
00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,760
Speaker 1: really good. But doesn't have to be a bull frog,

465
00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,480
Speaker 1: and it'll be like a tree frog. The tree frogs

466
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:51,240
Speaker 1: are the cute ones. They're like the like the neon

467
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 1: green with a little web. They got all the cool colors.

468
00:20:53,560 --> 00:20:55,159
Speaker 1: That's true. I don't know if they all have the

469
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,440
Speaker 1: same reaction. That's a good question. But but yeah, that

470
00:20:57,480 --> 00:20:59,200
Speaker 1: actually don't even know if that's true. But it's a

471
00:20:59,280 --> 00:21:01,520
Speaker 1: story that you hear and it makes sense in your minds,

472
00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:04,000
Speaker 1: and that's all that matters, exactly exactly. So if you're

473
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,199
Speaker 1: someone who has been suffering these fees and you know

474
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,040
Speaker 1: that they're there, well maybe this is kind of the

475
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:10,719
Speaker 1: kick in the pants because you realize now that fees

476
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:13,159
Speaker 1: are actually a huge drag on your returns and you

477
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:15,360
Speaker 1: don't want that to be the case any longer. That's right, man.

478
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:17,280
Speaker 1: So next we're gonna talk about where to go in

479
00:21:17,359 --> 00:21:19,680
Speaker 1: order to keep your fees and costs low. We're gonna

480
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: talk about that right after the break. All right, Matt,

481
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: we're back from the break, and now we have to

482
00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 1: talk about where you actually go in order to keep

483
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: fees and costs low. I like that, go go. That's

484
00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: perfect interesting annunciation on my part, that's for sure. So

485
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:45,879
Speaker 1: there are a few companies in particular who seem just

486
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 1: wholly dedicated to low costs investing, and of course that

487
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,520
Speaker 1: means that we're fans of them, right, So, Vanguard Fidelity

488
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 1: and in One those are our favorites, and I think

489
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,360
Speaker 1: those are the ones worth checking out in particular. And Matt,

490
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 1: you actually just switched to m one because you love

491
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,800
Speaker 1: their platform and their lack of fees so much, and

492
00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:07,960
Speaker 1: you wrote an article about it on our site. Right yeah,

493
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: Joel m One Finance, I'm a I'm a huge fan

494
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,440
Speaker 1: of them now. I mean, we've believed in them for

495
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:14,760
Speaker 1: a while now, but neither of us have actually given

496
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,720
Speaker 1: them a shot. I finally bit the bullet and switched over. Obviously,

497
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: we're talking about fees. They don't have any fees associated

498
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 1: with using their platform, associated with any trading at all.

499
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 1: They also have those pie charts that allow you to

500
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: sort of pick a like a predetermined default approach to

501
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:32,359
Speaker 1: how you want to invest. It allows you to keep

502
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:35,560
Speaker 1: your assets, you know, allocated properly like you want to.

503
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 1: And dude, you know what their app is actually really

504
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:42,119
Speaker 1: great as well. Vanguard it's pretty archaic. Yeah, it's not

505
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 1: so great. Fidelity is a little bit better. But M

506
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,680
Speaker 1: one I'm a big fan of it's it just works

507
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: really well. It does everything I wanted to do. So

508
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:50,520
Speaker 1: because of that, man, I'm a huge fan and would

509
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,919
Speaker 1: recommend it to anyone that is looking to you know,

510
00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: cut fees, but also within one you know, you have

511
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: a huge selection of funds that you can choose from.

512
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna convince you, Joel, to actually switch over

513
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:01,840
Speaker 1: pretty soon as well. All right, we'll see, we'll see

514
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: what happens. Oh, here's a wager. Well, I get you

515
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,119
Speaker 1: to switch over to M one before you get me

516
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: to switch over and join a warehouse club. That's a

517
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:12,639
Speaker 1: good question. I have a feeling that in our upcoming

518
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:15,359
Speaker 1: warehouse club debate, you're gonna make the switch. But we'll see,

519
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:17,640
Speaker 1: we'll see. I'm pretty subborn though, you know that's true.

520
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,240
Speaker 1: That's true. All right. So uh. Interestingly enough, there was

521
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,920
Speaker 1: an interview recently with the CEO of Vanguard, and he

522
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: stated that active investing, which instead of buying an index fund,

523
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 1: that means buying and selling stocks that you find valuable.

524
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: And I know most of us, like Matt and I,

525
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 1: we don't really do that, and and I know most

526
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: of the people that listen to this show don't do

527
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:38,159
Speaker 1: that either. If you are into doing the research and

528
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,439
Speaker 1: buying and selling stocks that you think makes sense for

529
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,600
Speaker 1: your portfolio, well, the CEO of Vanguard said, active investing

530
00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 1: is actually getting better and easier, and that's because fees

531
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,600
Speaker 1: are starting to lessen, and Vanguard has also been a

532
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:51,879
Speaker 1: part of the forefront of that push. So if you

533
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:54,520
Speaker 1: are kind of headed in that direction towards choosing your

534
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: own stocks as opposed to investing mostly in index funds

535
00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 1: like Matt and I do, well, that's good news too

536
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: for you that fees are lessening there, and in particular,

537
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,160
Speaker 1: when you're looking at M one or somebody like Robin

538
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:09,120
Speaker 1: Hood and your your individually trading stocks, well the fees

539
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 1: are not non existent. That means that you're getting the

540
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,640
Speaker 1: returns and not some guy in a suit on Wall

541
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,679
Speaker 1: Street which is great, okay, Joe. So we've now discussed

542
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,600
Speaker 1: the low cost investment sort of platforms and the different

543
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: brokerages that you can invest through. But now let's discuss,

544
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 1: you know, what funds you should choose to ensure that

545
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: you're getting the lowest fees. Let's do it. Yeah, e

546
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 1: t f s. They are a solid choice essentially, you know,

547
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: they're similar to index funds, but you trade them like stocks.

548
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:37,120
Speaker 1: They're kind of like little slices of mutual funds. In general,

549
00:24:37,160 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: index funds are are going to be the best choosing

550
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: a total stock market or SMPI index fund in particular

551
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000
Speaker 1: with one of the companies we mentioned. That's why you

552
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:49,960
Speaker 1: can keep costs low if non existence, and it also

553
00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 1: keeps it really easy. It's a way that you can

554
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:55,159
Speaker 1: just stay widely diversified with minimal effort. Yeah, you know,

555
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: I found it interesting as i as I did a

556
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: little research for this episode to Matt that in X

557
00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,680
Speaker 1: funds which track the same thing, even the costs associated

558
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: with an index fund through different companies can vary widely.

559
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:10,440
Speaker 1: And so let's just take for example, two of the

560
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,719
Speaker 1: top index funds that track the smp five hundred and

561
00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: one is from Spider and one is from Vanguard. They

562
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: both have in actuality pretty low fees associated with them,

563
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 1: but the one from Spider is three times the cost

564
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,720
Speaker 1: of the one from Vanguard. And when you're comparing even

565
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 1: those two really low cost funds that mirror the same index.

566
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: Take for example, what you mentioned Matt as well, Fidelities

567
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 1: total stock market index fund is is a zero fee.

568
00:25:37,560 --> 00:25:40,800
Speaker 1: So just make sure you're prioritizing fees even when it

569
00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: comes to investing in those low cost options, because the

570
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: fees can vary largely even inside of something that's already

571
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,439
Speaker 1: low cost. Yeah, Juel, you know you should make fees

572
00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: a primary reason for what you decide to invest in,

573
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: but not the entire reason. It's still a big part.

574
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: But just don't only consider your fees. You need to

575
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,360
Speaker 1: have a plan when it comes to your approach to investing.

576
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,679
Speaker 1: And if you're currently with an investment house or a

577
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: broker that charges high fees, just keep in mind that

578
00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 1: it's not that hard to switch. Just go to how

579
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,640
Speaker 1: to money dot com forward slash M one. That's where

580
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,800
Speaker 1: you can find my right up in my experience with

581
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: switching over to M one. Yeah, if you've been listening

582
00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:17,360
Speaker 1: to this episode and you're like, oh, man, I know

583
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,880
Speaker 1: I'm being charged some of those fees. I know that

584
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: I'm not in the lowest cost options, whether it means

585
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,080
Speaker 1: that you're just investing in a slightly higher cost UH

586
00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: index fund, or whether that means that you're with a

587
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: full commission stock brokerage and you know that you need

588
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: to get out in order to ensure that more of

589
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 1: your money stays working for you as opposed to, you know,

590
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: going to align the pockets of of the investment firm

591
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,720
Speaker 1: that you're with. Well, it isn't all that hard to

592
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: go away, and I know sometimes people take into account

593
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: the personal relationship they have with an investment professional that

594
00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 1: they've been working with. Most of the time, you can

595
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:52,600
Speaker 1: just contact the new platform or provider that you you

596
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: want to go with, let's say it's Vanguard or let's

597
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:56,680
Speaker 1: say it's in One, and they will help make that

598
00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 1: switch seamless for you and help you answer over to

599
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: something that's going to be way better for you over

600
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:06,160
Speaker 1: the coming years. And so you don't want to be

601
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 1: like we mentioned earlier that that frog in the boiling

602
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:12,320
Speaker 1: water that's just getting accustomed to being feed to death.

603
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: You want to take a proactive approach to the fees

604
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: that you're being charged inside of your retirement account because

605
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: it's your money, and you know what, at least now

606
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: you know how bad fees are and exactly how much

607
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 1: they're impacting the returns that you're gonna see. That's right, Joel.

608
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 1: So let's get back to the beer. This is a

609
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: beer from brain Dead Brewing and these guys are out

610
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 1: of Dallas, Texas. I don't know if we mentioned that

611
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,040
Speaker 1: earlier on but sent to us by Jared and he

612
00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:39,679
Speaker 1: actually works there. What are your thoughts on this? Sper Man? Well,

613
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 1: first side note, the best barbecue of my life that

614
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,679
Speaker 1: I've ever had came from Dallas, Texas. Yeah, and but

615
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: I need to go to more spots in Texas and

616
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,960
Speaker 1: try more barbecue. That's a goal that I have. But

617
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 1: this beer, I thought, Man, it was really really good,

618
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,679
Speaker 1: super interesting, unlike anything we've had on the show before.

619
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 1: Aged in red wine barrels, and I feel like you

620
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: totally got a little bit of of that barrel and

621
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,080
Speaker 1: a little bit of that kind of red wine flavor

622
00:28:03,119 --> 00:28:05,639
Speaker 1: shining through, because this beer is like really like a

623
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,760
Speaker 1: farmhouse beer, and I think Asian red wine barrels. It's

624
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:13,359
Speaker 1: got this really really nice, harmonious, balanced flavor that was

625
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: imparted to it, and I really enjoyed it. And man,

626
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 1: these I feel like brain Dead. I've never even heard

627
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,240
Speaker 1: of them until Jared sent us a couple of bottles,

628
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: but I really like what they're doing. Yeah, definitely a

629
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,200
Speaker 1: big fan as well. I'm with you though, like it's

630
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,760
Speaker 1: got that farmhouse flavor but without a lot of funk.

631
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,639
Speaker 1: You know, it's not like a funky farmhouse and the

632
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 1: flavors I get from like those wine barrels. It's less

633
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: of like the wine flavor. It's more of like the

634
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,040
Speaker 1: dryness that you get out of a red wine with

635
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: sort of like that oak. And I was smelling it

636
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: and it kind of smells like pineapple for whatever reason.

637
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: To me, it smells like kind of almost tropical, like

638
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 1: it's got this acidity like fruitness to it. But it

639
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 1: drinks real mellow like a barrel aged farmhouse just like

640
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 1: it is. So I don't know this. This is a

641
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,280
Speaker 1: fantastic beer. We've had a few of the others as well,

642
00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 1: and they were all really great. So, man, if you

643
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: are in Dallas, need to be checking out brain Dead brewing. Yep,

644
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: let's go to Dallas and uh it up in person.

645
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 1: I'm totally up for that, all right, so quickly, Matt,

646
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: let's get to our final thoughts. I have one final thought.

647
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,040
Speaker 1: Pay attention to the fees and your retirement Again's all

648
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: you need to do. That's all we got to say.

649
00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: Look at what you're paying to invest for your future.

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00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: If you are paying a lot, you're gonna have a

651
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 1: lot less money in the end. Wake up, pay attention,

652
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 1: make sure that you know what your fees are, how

653
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 1: you're being feed and charged, and then make sure you're

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00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: taking the steps to work towards paying less of those fees.

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00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,760
Speaker 1: And it's never been easier to pay less in fees

656
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: than it is now. So many good options and uh yeah,

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00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 1: so we'll link to those in the show notes, and

658
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: uh to find those show notes, you can check out

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00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: our website how to money dot com. And if you

660
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,920
Speaker 1: enjoy this episode and found it helpful, we would love

661
00:29:39,960 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 1: to hear from you our listeners. Head over to Apple

662
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: Podcasts and leave us a review. We'd appreciate it. Yeah.

663
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 1: If you think we've got work to do, we need

664
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,360
Speaker 1: to get better, go to how the money dot com.

665
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 1: Slash do better and drop us the line there. We

666
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,520
Speaker 1: appreciate your constructive criticism too, and so joel. Until next time,

667
00:29:56,480 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: Best friends out, best friends out, best friends out, m

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00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 1: M m