1 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:19,920 Speaker 1: Bodybacks with Joseph Scott Morgan. If you have a basement, 2 00:00:20,920 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: you know things to be looking for in your basement. 3 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:29,960 Speaker 1: Maybe tools, maybe old furniture, maybe I don't know. In 4 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:34,199 Speaker 1: my case, a man cave, never had one, always wanted one. 5 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: But the one thing you don't expect to find is 6 00:00:38,600 --> 00:00:42,879 Speaker 1: the head of your son in a bucket along with 7 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: his genitalia. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks, Dave. 8 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,080 Speaker 1: I had to reach out to you, my friend, because 9 00:00:53,159 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: I wanted to have a brief update on this trial 10 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: that is going on in Wisconsin involving Taylorship Business. 11 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: When you sent me the video of Taylorship Business in 12 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: court making her fingers into a gun and shooting it 13 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 2: at the judge and laughing, I thought, Holy moly, what 14 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: is going on? And so I'd started digging into what's 15 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:25,119 Speaker 2: happening in the courtroom with taylor'shaw business, who is standing 16 00:01:25,160 --> 00:01:29,280 Speaker 2: trial for the murder of her boyfriend, I guess is 17 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:33,640 Speaker 2: what we call him. She is accused of murdering this man, 18 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 2: cutting his head off, gutting him, and leaving his head 19 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 2: in a bucket with his private parts for his mother 20 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:45,840 Speaker 2: to find. That's where we start with this story. How 21 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 2: far do you dig the hole? 22 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 1: Joe? Yeah, you know, we knew some things the you know, 23 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: I guess it was. Was it back in June? I 24 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:58,760 Speaker 1: guess first part of June. It was that we laid 25 00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: down the original case because it was so shocking to 26 00:02:02,240 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: me at that point in time. Oh my lord, I 27 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: didn't expect to hear what I heard. We've got a 28 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 1: succession of people that have come on the stand at 29 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: this point in time, including the medical examiner there in 30 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: this county that got up and testified, and let me 31 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: give you an insight, there's one quote that has come out. 32 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: It's allegedly attributed to her. Have you ever loved something 33 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: so much that you wanted to kill it? I don't 34 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: know what to make of that. And I've had a 35 00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 1: lot of things that have come across my desk over 36 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,119 Speaker 1: the years, and certainly things I've talked about that leave 37 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 1: you kind of dumbfounded. But that in and of itself 38 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,919 Speaker 1: is quite striking and maybe insightful to a great degree. 39 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: But from a forensic standpoint, there's something about this case 40 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: that I'm very well pleased about. I've talked about previously 41 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:00,680 Speaker 1: on body bags how forensic pathologists rarely come out tones 42 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: because there's not enough of them. There are multiple deaths 43 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 1: happening all the time, and the friends of pathologists generally 44 00:03:08,639 --> 00:03:11,959 Speaker 1: is back at the morgue doing examinations while the investigators 45 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: are out processing scenes and you know, looking into cases. 46 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:21,239 Speaker 1: In this particular case, the medical examiner, the friends of 47 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 1: pathologists physically arrived at this site in Green Bay, Wisconsin 48 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: because it was just it was so fragmented. And I 49 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 1: mean that in a literal sense when it comes to 50 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: the body that from an anatomical standpoint, you have to 51 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: be able to make sense out of what you have. 52 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: It's very simple, very simple arithmetic what you have and 53 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: what you don't have. And remember, there was this cryptic statement, 54 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: and this is paraphrasing that business actually stated as she 55 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 1: was being led off in this particular case, good luck 56 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:02,880 Speaker 1: trying to find everything. And they had a devil of 57 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,120 Speaker 1: a time. And you can imagine when you walk into 58 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: a scene and you've got first off, you're starting with 59 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: the head in the bucket. And we knew at that 60 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 1: when we laid down the first episode that he had 61 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: been castrated and or at least his penis was removed. 62 00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: But now there's actually this moment in time when there's 63 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,280 Speaker 1: lead detective on the stand, Dave, and he is saying 64 00:04:29,480 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 1: that when he first observed this bucket, that keep in 65 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: mind that this poor kid's mama actually found when she 66 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: went down into this basement. She had Thyron is actually 67 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: living with his mother, and she goes down into the 68 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: basement because she had heard the door slam late at night, 69 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 1: gets up, goes down the basement, and she's looking for him. 70 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: I guess she calls out to him, and she's the 71 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,480 Speaker 1: one that actually looks into the bucket and finds this. 72 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: She he's the one that called nine to one to one. 73 00:05:02,279 --> 00:05:06,680 Speaker 2: And I'm trying to figure out if she was just 74 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 2: walking down there looking for something and saw the bucket 75 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 2: and saw the head and then covered the bucket with 76 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: a towel. 77 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 1: It's hard to make heads or tails of it at 78 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: this point in time, but I do know it was 79 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: it was almost like her own way of checking for things. 80 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 1: She was checking on the status of her adult son 81 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 1: who lives with her, and she came down the staircase. 82 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: She called out to him, and this is what she discovered. 83 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that she had manipulated the head anyway, 84 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:40,520 Speaker 1: and what I mean by that put her hands on 85 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 1: the head, you know, as you can imagine, she ran 86 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,760 Speaker 1: off in terror and called nine to one one. But 87 00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:50,159 Speaker 1: what the detective actually says is that once once this 88 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,599 Speaker 1: head was discovered and they began to kind of document it, 89 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: which is what we do at the scene, that carefully 90 00:05:55,440 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: removed the head from the bucket, and he states that 91 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,560 Speaker 1: it was at that moment time that he realized that 92 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: there were a set of male genitalia in the bucket. 93 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 1: So what we're talking about here is the penis and 94 00:06:09,960 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: the testicles, and what has also been described by the 95 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: medical examiner or the forensic pathologist at the scene, they 96 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 1: are these kind of links of torn flesh that are 97 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 1: in there as well, independent of these items, and that 98 00:06:27,440 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 1: goes to another part of this case that we had 99 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: no idea about. 100 00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: But what do you mean by torn flesh yet? 101 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: Well, oh, and let me add this as well. There 102 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 1: were also knives found as well contained therein and there 103 00:06:42,480 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: of course blood saturated and there's what appears according to them, 104 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: a certain amount of blood in the bucket as well, 105 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 1: and that comes into play in this case very significantly. 106 00:06:55,360 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: But when you begin to examine his body. And what 107 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 1: the forensic pathologists made note of is that when they 108 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: began to examine his body, once they removed everything that 109 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: they had from the scene back to the autopsy suite, 110 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 1: it looked as though this individual had attempted to filet 111 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:24,200 Speaker 1: his back. And this is something that's so over the 112 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 1: top relative to mutilation, you know, and even the you know, 113 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: aside from the dismemberment, you're talking about an individual that 114 00:07:32,480 --> 00:07:36,600 Speaker 1: took the time take a knife and literally peel the 115 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 1: skin in certain locations, primarily off the back of this 116 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:47,040 Speaker 1: young man. And then these items are all deposited all 117 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: about this area down there, including organs that had, according 118 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: to the medical examiner, had been physically removed through these 119 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: really jaggedions that she had made, uh anteriorly, which means 120 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: on the front, through the abdomen, this sort of thing. 121 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: And you know, here here's here's kind of the kicker 122 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: that was really quite striking to me, Dave, This Shad's 123 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: right foot had been removed, it had been dismembered at 124 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: the ankle, and Dave, when the forensic pathologists did their examination, 125 00:08:28,440 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: they actually found they actually found the foot in this 126 00:08:34,880 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 1: kid's chest just let that sink in just for a moment, 127 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 1: that this had been done to this kid, and it 128 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: was it was just it was beyond the pale. 129 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 2: Please tell me that there's a way to know whether 130 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 2: or not this man was dead or alive when this 131 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: started taking place, the playing, the chopping off of things. 132 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 2: Is there a way to know? 133 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, And this has brought out and you know, 134 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: that's an insightful question and something that everybody wants to know, 135 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 1: and that's important here. If there's any kind of if 136 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: there's any kind of solace that I think that maybe 137 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: family members can take in this. According to the medical examiner, 138 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: one of the things that you're looking for when you 139 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:42,720 Speaker 1: go for your examination, you'll refer to focal areas of hemorrhage. 140 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:45,960 Speaker 1: You know, if you have an incised area and a 141 00:09:46,000 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: place that's been cut, they refer to it as an 142 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:52,680 Speaker 1: insized area. You're looking for areas of hemorrhage in that tissue. 143 00:09:52,760 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: So just imagine that you take a knife and you 144 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: cut cut an apple. Friends, it's okay when you part 145 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: that apple if you don't completely you know, slice it 146 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: into and you just look at the edges of it. 147 00:10:07,000 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: That's what they do at autopsy. So when they're examining 148 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:15,719 Speaker 1: these injuries that have been generated by the perpetrator, allegedly 149 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: that those incised areas, those linear incisions that are being 150 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: made in this case that are actually curvelin here because 151 00:10:23,559 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: they're so jagged. You've got some that are straight, some 152 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:30,959 Speaker 1: that are kind of curved, but yet communicate with the 153 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:35,760 Speaker 1: straight lines. It's a very confusing case. They saw no 154 00:10:35,880 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: evidence of hemorrhage in those areas, so that means that 155 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: he was not bleeding. He was not his heart was 156 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 1: not functioning at that moment in time. So this was done. 157 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: This was what was referred to as a post mortem event, 158 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: you know, and we can sit here all day long 159 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 1: and begin to try to consider, you know, what in 160 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: the world was going through their mind when this individual 161 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: was doing all of this, you know, in the post 162 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 1: mortem state. Because it comes out to be a sexual assault, 163 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,680 Speaker 1: she's actually being charged, this business person is actually being 164 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 1: charged in this particular circumstance. But here's a big tail 165 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 1: as well. And the medical examiner brought this out today 166 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: when they examined this poor young man's head that was 167 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: removed from the bucket. They took the head to the 168 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:47,199 Speaker 1: medical examiner's office. The head was still very much uh congested, 169 00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: to the point where the head was purple in color. 170 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 1: And what that means is that's most often associated with 171 00:11:55,840 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: in aphix year old death. Many people will say, well, 172 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,920 Speaker 1: how in the world do you know that that's associated 173 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:06,520 Speaker 1: with assoxiation. Well, in this particular case, there was a 174 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: what looks like to be a chain like something you 175 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 1: would see kind of a chrome chain that's used and 176 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 1: generally associated with the animals that apparently have been used 177 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: as some type of ligature around his neck. And as 178 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 1: blood is being essentially prevented from passing through the rest 179 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: of the body, Dave, it backs up into the head 180 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 1: and the head just becomes wildly congested and there's you know, 181 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:39,200 Speaker 1: even in the post mortem state, there was evidence of 182 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: particular hemorrhages where the little blood vessels had burst, you know, 183 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: even along the gum line in his face, along around 184 00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:51,480 Speaker 1: his eyes, these sorts of areas. So there was a 185 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of force being exerted on his body as 186 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,360 Speaker 1: she is on top of him and I think probably 187 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:03,839 Speaker 1: where he is faced down as she's doing this and 188 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: choking him out with this thing, and it left such 189 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 1: a signature. Here, here's here's probably here, here's where this 190 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: becomes problematic. 191 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:19,240 Speaker 2: And now here's where it gets problem Joe, I'm having. 192 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: It's very difficult, but this is the takeaway, Dave, to 193 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: give you an idea the human body has about Okay, 194 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: the next time you go to the grocery store and 195 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,679 Speaker 1: you go buy milk, and you go to buy milk, 196 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: look at the gallon jug that's on the shelf, Okay, 197 00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,840 Speaker 1: and add one of those half gallon boxes to that 198 00:13:47,080 --> 00:13:51,800 Speaker 1: one gallon, and that's about the total amount of blood 199 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:57,200 Speaker 1: that an adult male has in their body. There was 200 00:13:57,240 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: no blood left. There was no bloo blood left in 201 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,959 Speaker 1: this young man's body. So you know, one of the 202 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:04,719 Speaker 1: things that has come into questioning. 203 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,320 Speaker 2: This trial. 204 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: Was this a drug fueled event? And what the medical 205 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: examiner was faced with and what we normally do at 206 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: autopsy is we take a large ten gauge needle and 207 00:14:20,200 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: a ten gauge needle. Remember when you're talking about gauges, 208 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,720 Speaker 1: the smaller the number, the larger the bore. Okay, So 209 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,160 Speaker 1: a ten gauge needle is very large, and that's what 210 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,800 Speaker 1: we use in the more to draw out blood out 211 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: of the order in the heart generally or to some 212 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 1: of the peripheral areas, and we get it directly out 213 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 1: of the vessels. Well, there was no blood to draw 214 00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:48,760 Speaker 1: at all in this particular case, so interestingly enough, that 215 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 1: bucket comes into play, Dave. All they had, and thank goodness, 216 00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: the medical examiner was out there. All they had was 217 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,320 Speaker 1: that bucket. They had to be very careful with it, 218 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: and there was a tremendous amount of blood in the 219 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: bottom of that bucket. So the medical examiner actually drew 220 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:11,400 Speaker 1: up a sample out of that bucket and tested it. Well, 221 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: it came back for cocaine, for cocaine metabolite, which means 222 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: that the cocaine is actually being processed in the system. 223 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,480 Speaker 1: It had been there for a while in meth, and 224 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: then you had the active ingredient from TCHC. So he 225 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: had weed on board, and then there was a nicotine. 226 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: Here's where it gets dicey, particularly from a legal standpoint. 227 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: How do you know what had previously been in that 228 00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: bucket and could it be cross contaminated with anything else? 229 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,240 Speaker 1: Because when you're looking at a red liquid substance, you 230 00:15:44,280 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: can say that that's blood if you want to, but 231 00:15:46,680 --> 00:15:48,560 Speaker 1: you're at the risk of running a fowl. With a 232 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: court and with attorneys, particularly defense attorneys, how do you 233 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: know that blood? You can't just visualize it and say, 234 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:56,720 Speaker 1: because if there's anything else in that bucket, say someone 235 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 1: else's blood, animal blood, or what if the bucket had 236 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: been used to contain cleaning solutions, you know that you're 237 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: going to mop the floor with or do anything. Could 238 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: it be cross contaminated with anything? And that's what the 239 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 1: emmy was faced with. 240 00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: But well, the cocaine looked the same if it had 241 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 2: been ingested and was in the body versus if there 242 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: was blood in the bucket and cocaine fell in there. 243 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:27,840 Speaker 1: Wow, that is an excellent question. And would there be 244 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: evidence that it could potentially if you find something like 245 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: a white powdery substance perhaps floating around on the top 246 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: that wasn't dissolved in there, which I would find highly 247 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:45,600 Speaker 1: unlikely to happen. Yeah, and from a metabolism standpoint, it 248 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: is not going to appear the same as it would 249 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 1: if it had been processed through the body. Here's another thing. 250 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 1: They did find a meth pipe in the basement, and 251 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 1: they did find myth. As a matter of fact, when 252 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: they went to collect the meth, that picked up the 253 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: bag and meth actually poured out onto the table. Just 254 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: set your mind onto that for a second. So as 255 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:14,280 Speaker 1: you can imagine, this is a very uh, disordered environment, 256 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: which is something that you see. This is a disorganized 257 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: killing and there was plenty take a long time, it 258 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: would and that's what the medical examiner pointed out in 259 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: this case. This is not something again I hate to 260 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: keep going back to this, I swear my friend, we 261 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: have talked about so many dismemberment cases, but you know 262 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: the one, the one element. Two elements that go into 263 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: dismemberment are tools. Do you have the appropriate tools to 264 00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 1: do this with? Remember not too recently, I mean not 265 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,399 Speaker 1: too long ago. Uh, you and I actually covered a 266 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:56,119 Speaker 1: case of chainsaw dismemberment, which is quick, very messy, but quick. Uh. 267 00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,760 Speaker 1: And then you know you have a case like this 268 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,280 Speaker 1: where you know you don't she doesn't have scalpels, but 269 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 1: there's evidence of cutting and sawing. And these are kitchen 270 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: knives that were being used, including something that the detectives 271 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,439 Speaker 1: are referring to as a what appears to be a 272 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: pocket knife as well. So there's multiple knives that are 273 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: found down there. But to add some order to this, environment. 274 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 1: Let me kind of tell you what the medical examiner did. 275 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:32,479 Speaker 1: They the medical examiner brought in these sterile cloths, okay, 276 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 1: and laid them out on the floor. And it's almost 277 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:40,199 Speaker 1: like if you can imagine going to a garage and 278 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: they're taking a part of transmission or a motor, and 279 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: they've got the parts kind of organized laid out before you. 280 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: That's what they had to do with this poor man's body. 281 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: He the medical examiner, being on the scene anatomically, began 282 00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: to try to organize this and could take a broad 283 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:04,639 Speaker 1: view of what he had at the scene and what 284 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: might still be missing from the young man's body. 285 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 2: I looked up what the medical examiner said on the stand, 286 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,400 Speaker 2: and he said, this is a direct quote. Now we 287 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:21,640 Speaker 2: have decapitation, we have dismemberment, we have transsection of the torso. 288 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 2: And then he said, we have entered inside the body 289 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 2: through various cuts. The victim's organs have been removed one 290 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,640 Speaker 2: by one. How can you tell that when you've got 291 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: body parts strewn everywhere, a body cut and half decapitated, 292 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,919 Speaker 2: a foot crammed into his chest cavity, and now you 293 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:44,960 Speaker 2: can put it all back together and tell us that 294 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 2: they were removed one by one. 295 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, you can. And here let me just kind of 296 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 1: give you the measure of what we do in the morgue. 297 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: There's two ways that we do what's referred to as 298 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: a pro section in the morgue or an evisceration. An 299 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:03,920 Speaker 1: in visceration is where the organs are removed from the body, 300 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: and there's two methods that are employed. You either do 301 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 1: it by each individual organ where we open up with 302 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,600 Speaker 1: a classic Y shaped incision, take the breastplate off of 303 00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: the body, and then we start with the heart and 304 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,479 Speaker 1: the lungs, you know, we remove those, We cut through 305 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: the diaphragm, take the the liver out. Then generally we'll 306 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 1: go for the spleen, then the pancreas. Sometimes we'll leave 307 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:35,080 Speaker 1: the pancreas attached to the spleen. We look for the adrenals, 308 00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 1: which sits superior to the kidneys. We take those out. 309 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: Then we take both kidneys out, generally individual and you 310 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: have to make sure that the urders are still attached, 311 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: which is what you know. Urine is going to pass 312 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: through into the bladder. And then we'll go for the 313 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 1: bowel and we'll do all of that individually. Okay, So 314 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:58,280 Speaker 1: there's very specific cuts that you make or incisions within 315 00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,800 Speaker 1: the body to take each organ out. Now, the second 316 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: methodology is what's referred to you I'm talking about in 317 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 1: a clinical sense, is what's referred to as on block 318 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: or the Rogatansky method, which is where you start all 319 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: the way up at the windpipe the trachea, and you 320 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: cut down the spine and you take everything out all 321 00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:23,800 Speaker 1: the way down, all the way down to the bladder, 322 00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:26,520 Speaker 1: and you just lay it out before you and it's 323 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: very intact, and that way you can appreciate all of 324 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: the anatomy outside of the body. You can kind of 325 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: expand it out, take a look at it. And that's 326 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 1: not what they're seeing. Apparently when the doctor did their examination, 327 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: this individual that was there at the scene and then 328 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,399 Speaker 1: back at the morgue, and it's important that you know 329 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,840 Speaker 1: that because it's the same person from beginning to end 330 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: that handles this and that's for continuity, that's what you want. 331 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,920 Speaker 1: They were able to appreciate that the organs had either 332 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:06,040 Speaker 1: been insized or excised from where they're seated in the 333 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:11,919 Speaker 1: body through cuts and probably through pulling as well, almost 334 00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:16,000 Speaker 1: a ripping out, and so her hand would have had 335 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: to go into these spaces that she had opened up 336 00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: and pull them out, and maybe she used a knife 337 00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: to do this, or maybe she just kind of yanked 338 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: them out. But you know, kind of the exclamation point 339 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:34,080 Speaker 1: on all this as you know, one final flourish, you know, 340 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: she takes his foot and stuffs it in his chest cavity. 341 00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,119 Speaker 1: The fact that she took this body though day and 342 00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 1: transsected it, which if you will, if folks that are 343 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,679 Speaker 1: listening to this will kind of think about how a 344 00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: belt wraps around your waist, okay, and it's circumferential, which 345 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: means the belt goes around the body. This means that 346 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,160 Speaker 1: you think about any decision that would follow a belt line, 347 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: and that's a transaction where the body is cut all 348 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: the way around and the body is essentially separated at 349 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:17,400 Speaker 1: that point. But in the end, my question is this, 350 00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: when it comes to taylorship business, it is being put 351 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: forth that this was drug fueled, that this was as 352 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:41,320 Speaker 1: a result of meth usage. Are are her reactions in court? 353 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:46,560 Speaker 1: Are they still myth fueled? I think that we have 354 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: to ask ourselves that you know, making a fake gun, 355 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: you know where on camera at least it appears that 356 00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:58,520 Speaker 1: she's pointing this at the judge, giggling when they begin 357 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,400 Speaker 1: to talk about finding the head and this rough dissection 358 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,960 Speaker 1: and this blood bath that has been left in her wake. 359 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:13,040 Speaker 1: In the present context, is that matth fuel still or 360 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:21,119 Speaker 1: is this something much more sinister. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, 361 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,119 Speaker 1: and this is body bags.