1 00:00:02,360 --> 00:00:07,040 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:06,840 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 2: And joining us now for more live from Capitol Hill 3 00:00:09,080 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 2: is Senator Warren, who of course is ranking member of 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: the Senate Banking Committee. Senator, welcome back to Bloomberg TV 5 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: and Radio. We do have many questions for you about 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 2: what's happening with the CFPB specifically, but we also saw 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: today as you and your colleagues pressed the chairman repeatedly 8 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:29,479 Speaker 2: about the influence this administration's policies like tariffs, are going 9 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 2: to have on monetary policy. When we are considering policies 10 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: that could potentially be inflationary, do you see justification here 11 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 2: for the Fed to even be thinking about cutting rates? 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,560 Speaker 1: So, Lord, I press the Fed to lower interest rates 13 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 1: because I want families to be able to have cheaper 14 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: mortgages and to be able to pay off their credit 15 00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: card debts. But I truly understand the hesitancy that the 16 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:01,040 Speaker 1: Fed chair expressed today because we live the world of 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: on again, off again tariffs that Donald Trump has put 18 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: in place and taken out of place. Don Trump's on again, 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 1: off again firing tens of thousands of federal workers, his 20 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:18,680 Speaker 1: on again, off again Whether or not we're going to 21 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:24,720 Speaker 1: have federal contracts honored to sell wheat and other commodities 22 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 1: to the federal government for purposes of international aid. Whether 23 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: or not the financial cops are going to stay on 24 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 1: the beat or are people just now is an open 25 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 1: season on cheating consumers. Look, Donald Trump needs to settle 26 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 1: down and focus on what he ran for president on, 27 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: and that is lowering costs for American families. That's where 28 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 1: he needs to keep his attention and that will put 29 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: the Fed in a much better place to lower interest rates. 30 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,080 Speaker 3: Well, Kayley mentioned the CFPB Senator, so let's talk about 31 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 3: consumers for a moment. This is obviously something that's very 32 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 3: important to you, and we got into it with Mick 33 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:12,840 Speaker 3: Mulvaney yesterday, former Acting White House Chief of Staff, who 34 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 3: spent some time at that agency, and what he had 35 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 3: to say about the double edged sword of how the 36 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 3: CFPB is funded. 37 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 4: Let's listen, Liz Warren created this agency when she was 38 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 4: a Harver professor. She drummed up the idea she wanted 39 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,480 Speaker 4: something in her mind that was above politics. Consumer protection 40 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 4: in her mind, was too important to trust too elected officials. 41 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,239 Speaker 4: The double edged sword of that is that when ro 42 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 4: Hitchopra's running the place and Congress wants to shut them down, 43 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,040 Speaker 4: he can sort of go and get his money without 44 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,799 Speaker 4: having to worry about what Congress thanks. But the other 45 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 4: side of the sword is if russ Vote is running 46 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 4: the place and he doesn't want to draw any money 47 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 4: down from the Fed, he doesn't have to. 48 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 3: When you consider that funding mechanism, Senator, did you trump 49 00:02:55,919 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 3: proof the CFPB enough to withstand this period of time? 50 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: So you know, I hope you had a good time 51 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: yesterday with Migmulvaney. But let's be clear. The CFPP is 52 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: funded in the largest sense, just like every other bank regulator, 53 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:15,639 Speaker 1: starting Peck in eighteen sixty three with our very first 54 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 1: bank regulator, the Office of the Controller of the Currency, 55 00:03:19,960 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: Congress said we cannot fund the banking regulators through the 56 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 1: appropriations process and expect them to still do their jobs. 57 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 1: Even in eighteen sixty three, they were so afraid that 58 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: those big financial institutions would come in and influence Congress 59 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: to cut back, for example, on the money to enforce 60 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: the legal regulations. And so all of the agencies that 61 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: are the banking regulators have been funded outside the political process. 62 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: And by the way, Midgmulvaney, the Republicans. Some of the 63 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,320 Speaker 1: giant banks have already argued all the way to the 64 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: United States Supreme Court and back again that that kind 65 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: of funding is not right, and the United States Supreme 66 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 1: Court said it's fine. Congress has done it in many 67 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: other circumstances. They can continue to do it. But you 68 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 1: know what this is really about, and where we are 69 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 1: right now, is about sidelining the cops, the financial cops. 70 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: Right now, we have no one who is enforcing the 71 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:37,839 Speaker 1: consumer financial protection laws anywhere in our federal government on 72 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 1: the big banks and the non bank financial institutions. That's 73 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: what Chair Pal said today, and that's a real problem 74 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: for every American who has a credit card, mortgage, payday loan, 75 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: car loan, student loan. Right now, Donald Trump Elon Musk 76 00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: have just declared open season on every consumer in America. 77 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,040 Speaker 2: Well, what about open season on the financial regulators? As 78 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 2: we talk about those that have similar funding structures to 79 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 2: the CFPB. Senator, where are you concerned they'll target next? 80 00:05:14,000 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: Look, if the Republicans want to change the funding mechanism 81 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: to the CFPB, they've got the majority in the House 82 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: and the Senate. Let them come over here and try 83 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: to do that. Don't make an end run that is 84 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:38,799 Speaker 1: clearly illegal by letting Elon Musk shut down the agency. Effectively, 85 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:43,280 Speaker 1: come over here to Congress. Congress created the CFPB and 86 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: the other regulators, and Congress is the only one that 87 00:05:47,400 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 1: can shut them down. You might ask yourself, though, since 88 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,200 Speaker 1: they're in control, why haven't they done that? And I'll 89 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 1: tell you the reason why. It's because the CFPV is 90 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 1: very popular, and it's not just popular among Democrats, it's 91 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: popular among Republicans and independence because nobody likes getting cheated 92 00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: by a giant bank, Nobody likes getting scammed on their 93 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:20,440 Speaker 1: car along nobody likes financial institutions taking advantage to consumers, 94 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 1: and the CFPB is the one agency on the side 95 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: of consumers. 96 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 3: I don't know if you had your eyes, Senator on 97 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: the other end of Pennsylvania Avenue a little while ago. 98 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 3: But Elon Musk himself, oh, I believe he referred to 99 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 3: as the co President in your opening remarks today in 100 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 3: the committee joined President Trump, who was sitting behind the 101 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 3: resolute desk. Elon Musk in a black overcoat, talking about 102 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 3: the effort here in the work that's being done by dose. 103 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 3: Let's listen quickly to what he. 104 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 5: Said, What meaning does democracy actually have If the people 105 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 5: cannot vote and hope they will be decided by their 106 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,719 Speaker 5: elected representatives in the form of the President and the 107 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,719 Speaker 5: s in the House, then we don't live in a democracy. 108 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 6: We live in a bureaucracy. So it's incredibly important that 109 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 6: we close that feedback we fix that feedback group, and 110 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 6: that the public, the public's elected representatives, the President of 111 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 6: the House and the Senate, decide what happens as opposed 112 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,760 Speaker 6: to a large unelected bureaucracy. 113 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 3: Senator Warren, is there any chance this could work? 114 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,200 Speaker 1: I have no idea what Elon Musk is trying to 115 00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: say here. Does he not actually understand how government works? 116 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,760 Speaker 1: Or is he just trying to blow more smoke here? Look, 117 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: if Congress wanted to shut down the CFPB, they have 118 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 1: the power to do it, just like they have the 119 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,600 Speaker 1: power to shut out any other agency in government. That 120 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:52,200 Speaker 1: is the power allocated to Congress. It is not the 121 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: power allocated to Elon Musk. Nobody voted for him, and 122 00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 1: even if they had, nobody at the other end of 123 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: Pennsylvania Avenue has the right to shut down an agency 124 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 1: and not spend the money and do the work that 125 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 1: Congress has actually empowered it to do so. 126 00:08:14,000 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 2: Is Congress and specifically your party within it, as the 127 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: minority senator, is the only real recourse you have here 128 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 2: to act against what the Department of Government efficiency in 129 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 2: this administration is doing to shut down the government next month. 130 00:08:29,440 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: You know, I listen to the premise of your question. No, 131 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 1: when people in the administration are violating the law, we 132 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,280 Speaker 1: have a lot of recourse. Starts out with a whole 133 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 1: bunch of lawsuits that are out there right now against them. 134 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: And is those lawsuits correctly determined that they are breaking 135 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: the law, they got to stop. That means they have 136 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: to restart the payments. That means they have to put 137 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: the financial copts back on the beat. That means they 138 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: have to go ahead and continue the government contracts as 139 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:08,640 Speaker 1: the law requires. This is how government works, three equal 140 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: branches of government. And right now in the courts there's 141 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:17,959 Speaker 1: litigation over what the administration, what Elon Musk has done. 142 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: When he's found to have violated the law, he's supposed 143 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: to get in compliance with the law. This is not 144 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: a problem we need to fix later. This is a 145 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: problem right now. When we have got Elon Musk and 146 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: his little band of hackers in our financial system illegally, 147 00:09:37,520 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: then we need to get him out. 148 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 3: Well, Senator, I think Kayley was maybe referring to a 149 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,120 Speaker 3: couple of senators from New Jersey who suggested that a 150 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,600 Speaker 3: government shutdown may be one of the only ways to 151 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 3: put pressure on this situation. That was a conversation on 152 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:54,319 Speaker 3: Sunday Morning television. But as we talk today on Bloomberg 153 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,520 Speaker 3: TV and radio, I wonder your thoughts on some concerns 154 00:09:57,520 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 3: that if there were in fact a shutdown, no matter 155 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: whose fault it is, some of these departments might not 156 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 3: ever reopen when there was a deal to fund the 157 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 3: government because of the efforts of dogs. Do you see 158 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 3: it that way? 159 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:13,000 Speaker 1: Look, I appreciate that you frame the question the way 160 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: you have. Let's understand, Donald Trump is already shutting the 161 00:10:18,120 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: government down by letting Elon Musk move in against us AID. 162 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: He's shutting down the government by letting them move against 163 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau and firing the financial cops. 164 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: He's shutting the government by renegging on millions of federal contracts. 165 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 1: He's shutting down part of the government shoot He's shutting 166 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,360 Speaker 1: down the government that promised to help fund childcare centers 167 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,560 Speaker 1: and places that are trying to help vents find housing. 168 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:56,800 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, through his co president Elon Musk, is in 169 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 1: the business of trying to shut down the government right 170 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: now and doing so illegally. That's why we're in the courts. 171 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 1: That's why we need to solve this problem, not weeks 172 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: from now. We need to solve it right now because 173 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,839 Speaker 1: people are getting hurt right now. 174 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 3: Well, stay close with us on this, Senator, We have 175 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,360 Speaker 3: a lot to learn still and your insights are important 176 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 3: to us. 177 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: On Bloomberg. 178 00:11:18,240 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: Democratic Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, that's the ranking member, 179 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:23,960 Speaker 3: of course, on the Senate Banking Committee. We thank you 180 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 3: for being with us.