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Speaker 1: Alson media.

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Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let

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Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode

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Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one

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Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to

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Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If

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Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,

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Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but

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Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.

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Speaker 3: All right, it could happen here.

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Speaker 4: It's me, it's Robert, and we are gathered here today

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Speaker 4: to talk about one of the most annoying things that

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Speaker 4: can happen on your telephone, which is that you can

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Speaker 4: be sent a tweet from Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 2: Which is just no one needed that.

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Speaker 4: It's already really bad. I see really bad things on

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Speaker 4: my telephone every day. I don't need to see a

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Speaker 4: tweet from Gavin Newsom. If you're not familiar with this,

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Speaker 4: you're living a better life than me.

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Speaker 3: Proud of you.

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Speaker 4: But I'm going to give you some context here for

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Speaker 4: those of you who are not familiar. Gavin Newsom is

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Speaker 4: the governor of California. He's also kind of been the

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Speaker 4: presumptive of twenty twenty eight Democratic candidate for quite a while.

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Speaker 4: He's term limited out running for California governor again, so

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Speaker 4: he won't be doing that, and his term will end

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Speaker 4: in January of twenty twenty seven. He had for a

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Speaker 4: while tried to dismiss claims that he was interested in

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Speaker 4: the presidency, but he's been a lot more of it

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Speaker 4: about it recently. Yeah, I don't believe any claims that

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Speaker 4: he was not interested in this for a long time.

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Speaker 4: He has definitely tried to cast himself this summer as

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Speaker 4: the sort of leader of the resistance type figure. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: he hasn't done that by, for instance, ordering the California

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Speaker 4: National Guard to go home, protecting people from the massmen

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Speaker 4: with guns snatching them in the street, or even standing

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Speaker 4: up for trans kids. Instead, he has focused on I

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Speaker 4: guess what you could generously call Twitter trolling, like it's well,

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Speaker 4: we're going.

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Speaker 3: To get into it. It's extremely annoying.

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Speaker 4: So about a week ago now, I think the eleventh

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Speaker 4: of August was when he began Newsom began his social

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Speaker 4: media rebrand. He did this by posting about himself in

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Speaker 4: all caps as America's favorite governor. His posts since then

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Speaker 4: have mimicked the Donald. Trump has a pretty distinctive posting.

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Speaker 3: Style, right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Newsom's are written in all caps, which Trump doesn't

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Speaker 4: tend to do. Trump tends to capitalize sporadically and as

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Speaker 4: far as I can tell, entirely randomly. But Newsom's doing

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Speaker 4: it in all caps. He uses over uses exclamation marks.

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Speaker 4: I should say this beef between the two of them

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Speaker 4: is not new right. Trumps has called him new scum

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Speaker 4: on true social and I don't think Trump can claim

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Speaker 4: the intellectual property to new scum.

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Speaker 3: I've seen that one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like it's up there with like hair Gel,

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Speaker 4: Hitler and Ussolini. Like anyway, if you if you're buying

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Speaker 4: a firearm in California, you will hear someone say one

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Speaker 4: of these things almost without fail.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: The claim the newsman's team is making is that he's

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Speaker 4: like holding up a mirror to Trump's bigot tree by

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Speaker 4: doing this Trump style posting. But I think in doing so,

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Speaker 4: he's really illustrated the difference between him is not as

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Speaker 4: profound as you'd think or hope. He in one example,

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Speaker 4: called Scott Presler Nancy Mace. It's got Presler, gay conservative

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Speaker 4: right wing figure, and then he was called out for

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Speaker 4: miss gendering presler By.

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Speaker 2: This will shock and amaze you, Tommy.

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Speaker 4: Laurn Wow yeah, which yeah, no one knows, okay, yeah,

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Speaker 4: he responded, quote, you sound woke. This really isn't funny.

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Speaker 4: It's just Bigo tree like comparing gay ment to women

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Speaker 4: is an old, worn out and lazy jab.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So when you combine.

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Speaker 4: This with him having right wing figures like Charlie Kirk

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Speaker 4: and Steve Bannon on his.

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Speaker 2: Podcast and it just for reference, folks, I don't know

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Speaker 2: how much detail we can get into legally here, but

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Speaker 2: this being our business, we are aware of the numbers

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Speaker 2: different podcasts do. And Gavin Newsom's podcast is not like

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Speaker 2: it does. Okay, but there's certain podcasts about, for example,

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Speaker 2: bad people in history that lap at several times. So

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Speaker 2: like the star power that Gavin Newsom has, I'm not

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Speaker 2: seeing it. We're not talking about a guy who has

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Speaker 2: shown evidence that he is capable of on his own,

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Speaker 2: generating like a super loyal fan base or continued interest

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Speaker 2: in his personality. Now, I'm not saying that's that on

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Speaker 2: its own isn't a bad thing. A lot of politicians

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Speaker 2: who are very competent at certain things are not competent

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Speaker 2: at that, and in fact, most of the worst politicians

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Speaker 2: we have are also the people who are the best

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Speaker 2: at that and building a fan base, so to speak.

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Speaker 2: But what I'm saying is that Gavin Newsom is obsessed

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Speaker 2: with doing something, being this Trumpian populist figure that he

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Speaker 2: has not exhibited faculty for. Right, Yes, that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, And that's what I'm saying too, is a

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Speaker 4: he's confusing engagement with actual political action.

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Speaker 2: Right, And he's confusing the kind of engagement that you

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Speaker 2: get on social media when it's someone else's algorithm, And

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Speaker 2: a lot of the engagement is like, not people who

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Speaker 2: are going to vote for you or support you, but

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Speaker 2: people who the algorithm is pushing your content to because

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Speaker 2: it knows they'll get pissed.

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Speaker 3: Off by it, right exactly.

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Speaker 2: That I'm not against you know, pissing off conservatives, but

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Speaker 2: that doesn't help you necessarily, right, Like, there's not a

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Speaker 2: clear benefit to us in this.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, good things piss off conservatives, but pissing off conservatives

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Speaker 4: are not inherently a good or useful thing.

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Speaker 3: It's just a thing.

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Speaker 2: It's not enough, right, Like, I again, it can be

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Speaker 2: I'm not sometimes that's necessary just for morale purposes alone.

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Speaker 2: But again, I don't really think Gavin Newsom is making

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Speaker 2: the right scared. I don't think he's breaking their morale.

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Speaker 2: I think he's just kind of creating content that people

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Speaker 2: on the left are sharing because it pisses them off.

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Speaker 2: People on the right are sharing because it makes them laugh.

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Speaker 2: I think they think it's sad more than anything else.

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Speaker 2: And obviously you've got a chunk of like a decent

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Speaker 2: chunk of like centrist dim types who like Newsom, and

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Speaker 2: I guess maybe it's working for some of them, But

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Speaker 2: I don't think it's broadening his support. I think there's

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Speaker 2: a single voter, especially in a fucking swing state, who

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Speaker 2: is like, I wasn't going to vote for Gavin Newsom

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Speaker 2: until I saw him mimicking Donald Trump's tweets.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, exactly, like he is doing, in a sense what

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Speaker 4: Harris did, which is this consistently failed Democrat political strategy

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Speaker 4: that they seem so addicted to that no amount of

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Speaker 4: losing will break them of it, which is moving to

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Speaker 4: the right to try and capture moderate Republicans. Right, they've

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Speaker 4: done this, everything's Trump took the Republican Party closer closer

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Speaker 4: to fascism right, Like, I want to give an example

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Speaker 4: of this. His Gavin Newsom talking to Sean Ryan about

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Speaker 4: transgender athletes.

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Speaker 5: I'll be cannon with you. I looked at that issue

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Speaker 5: and I said, boy, they're just exploiting this. It's a

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Speaker 5: handful of people. What the hell is this? It's being weaponized.

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Speaker 5: It was just another cultural issue. Intel two years ago,

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Speaker 5: there was a state track championship. We had a trans

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Speaker 5: athlete that was successful, and there was a video of

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Speaker 5: the girl that lost and she was devastated, and that

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Speaker 5: video went around everywhere and it was very emotional, it

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Speaker 5: was very real. I remember calling my team man, I said,

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Speaker 5: this is legit, and I did this podcast with Charlie Kirk. Unsurprisingly,

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Speaker 5: he brought it up and he said, tell me that's

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Speaker 5: not fair. I said, it's not fair. You're right. My

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Speaker 5: party was pissed. Lgbtqcucus furious with me because I don't

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Speaker 5: think it's fair.

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Speaker 6: It's not.

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Speaker 5: But because you oppose sports doesn't make you homophobic, and

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Speaker 5: my party needs to stop saying that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah again, I know who he thinks this is going

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Speaker 2: to help. He believes it's a religion. Effectively among a

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Speaker 2: lot of establishment dims that there's a whole huge chunk

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Speaker 2: of voters who are just itching to vote for a

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Speaker 2: Democrat if they weren't in favor of all of these

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Speaker 2: icky cultural issues that are hard to touch that the

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Speaker 2: right is, it spends so much time harping on, and

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Speaker 2: I think part of what they're seeing and where a

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Speaker 2: lot of the logical disconnect comes into effect, is that

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Speaker 2: they see how much money conservatives and time and discourse

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Speaker 2: conservatives spend talking about this and obsessing over it, and

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Speaker 2: they believe, well, oh, if we just kind of fold

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Speaker 2: on these people, then we've taken this great weapon out

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Speaker 2: of their arsenal, and they'll be helpless because they're stupid.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think these are fundamentally very smart people

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Speaker 2: in the political sense of the world. I think they

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Speaker 2: bad politicians. I think they're bad. I think they were

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Speaker 2: good politicians in terms of a competency sense at a

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Speaker 2: prior age to get to where they were, But the

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Speaker 2: ground has changed and intelligence is largely a product of adaptability,

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Speaker 2: and they have not proven adaptable. And I think what's

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Speaker 2: actually going to happen, because we've seen that, is if

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Speaker 2: they throw trans people under the bus as they're actively

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Speaker 2: talking about doing the right will grab another chunk of

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Speaker 2: their coalition and start ruthlessly trying to destroy that group

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Speaker 2: of people, and these people's suggestion will once again be Okay,

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Speaker 2: well we gotta, you know, throw those people under the bus,

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Speaker 2: because then we'll deny them that weapon, and eventually you

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Speaker 2: won't have any Democrats left.

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Speaker 4: Like yeah, right, they'll come off to same sex marriage'll

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Speaker 4: come off to fucking interracial marriage, and Newsom will try

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Speaker 4: and find the middle.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Like where he has.

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Speaker 3: Received praise for this, he's in the legacy media.

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Speaker 4: I want to quote here from a cal Matter's op ed,

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Speaker 4: which suggests that Newsome was quote someone trying to hold

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Speaker 4: space for a hard conversation in his podcast.

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Speaker 3: He's not.

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Speaker 2: You don't have conversations with Charlie Kirk. He's never had

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Speaker 2: a real one in his life.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, the conversation is not hard to have, right, trans

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Speaker 4: people deserve the same fucking rights as everyone else. It's

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Speaker 4: very easy to have. Also, he's having this conversation with

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Speaker 4: someone who agrees with him, Like, I would love to

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Speaker 4: see him tell a young trans woman that she can't

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Speaker 4: play on the fucking third s during the high school

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Speaker 4: volleyball team, because then he's going to see a kid

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Speaker 4: cry too. I don't want to go over the lake

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Speaker 4: trans people and compete sports like I've made my living

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Speaker 4: as an athlete for much of my life. This is bullshit,

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Speaker 4: and it's fundamentally disrespectful to women athletes to continue to

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Speaker 4: suggest it they're biologically inferior. But I do want to

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Speaker 4: talk more about Gavin you some slide into mean politics.

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Speaker 4: His press office claimed that after the fires in LA

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Speaker 4: claim this in New York Times in a piece of

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Speaker 4: our link, he was troubled by the misinformation that came out.

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Speaker 4: Apparently was his first fucking time in encountering misinformation on

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Speaker 4: the internet. Like oh wow, Yeah, Well, when you think

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Speaker 4: about the ease with which he lies, right, yeah, absolute

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Speaker 4: comfort he has, bullshitting it sort of makes sense until

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Speaker 4: it hits him. He doesn't care because he's too So

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Speaker 4: they decided to take the fight to the internet. I

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Speaker 4: guess they began with Star Wars memes. And then when

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Speaker 4: the redistricting debate in Texas, so we've covered extensively on

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Speaker 4: executive disorder was kind of reaching its peak, Newsom sort

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Speaker 4: of begun this sign I know you are, you said,

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Speaker 4: you are, But what am I kind of tendency In

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Speaker 4: his posting, he posted in all block capitals, I'm not

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Speaker 4: going to shout Donald Trump. If you do not stand down,

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Speaker 4: we will be forced to leave an effort to redraw

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Speaker 4: the maps in CAA to offset the rigging of maps.

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Speaker 3: In red states.

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Speaker 4: But if the other states call off their redistricting efforts,

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Speaker 4: we will do the same. Thank you for your attention

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Speaker 4: on this match. Sorry it's hard to readcause it's entirely

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Speaker 4: unpunctuated apart from at the end there. These tweets aren't

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Speaker 4: on his personal account or the official governor of California one.

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Speaker 4: They're on an account called governor use some press office,

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Speaker 4: but that count does have their little gray tick mark

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Speaker 4: that you can get in Twitter now for like government accounts.

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Speaker 4: Then he moved on to AI generated images and signed

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Speaker 4: his post with initials like Trump does, claiming Kid Rock

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Speaker 4: had endorsed him, which isn't true. Incidentally, they did this

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Speaker 4: exactly a year after Donald Trump posted an AI generated

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Speaker 4: image of Taylor Swift with the Swifties for Trump montage,

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Speaker 4: which shows how much time they spend looking at Trump's

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Speaker 4: post rather than doing anything fucking useful. Then they moved

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Speaker 4: on to mocking Greg Abbott for using a wheelchair, saying

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Speaker 4: he rolled over for Trump again, like, you do not

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Speaker 4: build a political coalition by mocking people with disabilities. There

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Speaker 4: are a million things to fucking hate Greg Abbott for.

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Speaker 4: I could spend an hour talking about the loathsome shit

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Speaker 4: he has done, but using a wheelchair is not one

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Speaker 4: of those things. If you cannot find anything else, that

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Speaker 4: really shows a paucity of democratic politics right now, let's

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Speaker 4: take a break and we'll come back.

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Speaker 2: Awesome, All right, we're back.

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Speaker 4: Unfortunately, and probably predictively, Newsom has received praise from all

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Speaker 4: over the legacy and media for these posts. The NYT quoted,

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Speaker 4: it's actually unclear of they quoted. I don't know if

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Speaker 4: this was just a mistake that they haven't corrected. But

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Speaker 4: it was phrased like she said it directly, but it

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Speaker 4: wasn't in quotation mark, so I'm a little unclear. I'm

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Speaker 4: just gonta assume they quoted this.

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Speaker 3: Lady.

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Speaker 4: Sarah Roberts, a director for the Center of Critical Internet

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Speaker 4: Inquiry UCLA, said, quote, mister Nuisan's posts are perhaps grabbing

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Speaker 4: so much attention because they stand out for the rest

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Speaker 4: of democratic party's ineffective approach of playing it safe and

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Speaker 4: proceeding as if its business as usual, and then just

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Speaker 4: to double down on this useful podcast idiot, John Favreau

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Speaker 4: tweeted quote, I mean, it's pretty clearly a parody of

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Speaker 4: Trump's absolutely insane, all caps off to nonsensical posts. Probably,

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Speaker 4: while all the people in my life who aren't political

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Speaker 4: junkies keep reaching out to say they don't know much

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Speaker 4: about Newsom but think the tweets are hilarious, humor and

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Speaker 4: mockery can be quite effective, neither of them say what

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Speaker 4: they are effective for. Right, No one seems concerned that

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Speaker 4: these make no material difference, and he is doing them

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Speaker 4: instead of doing things that make material difference. Right, I'm

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Speaker 4: going to play another clip from Chris Hayes here before you.

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Speaker 8: Governor Gavin Newsom and his team have figured out a

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Speaker 8: very entertaining way to deal with Donald Trump at his

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Speaker 8: own rhetorical level.

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Speaker 2: They've got a new social.

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Speaker 8: Media strategy that is both I got to say, pretty

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Speaker 8: damn funny and I think extremely effective, mocking the President

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Speaker 8: with a spot on impression of his very weird communication stock.

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Speaker 8: Since Newsom jumped into the ongoing redistricting fight. His official

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Speaker 8: Twitter account has been posting Trump style. Donald has finished.

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Speaker 8: He is no longer hot. First the hand so tiny,

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Speaker 8: and now me, Gavin C. Newson have taken away his step.

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Speaker 8: Many are saying, we can't even do the big stairs

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Speaker 8: on Air Force one anymore, uses the little baby stairs

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Speaker 8: now sad as all the Trump trademarks, all capital letters,

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Speaker 8: random quotation marks, little parentheticals, complete unhinged absurdity.

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Speaker 9: I thought that's a good one.

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Speaker 8: I hate kid Rock reference to Trump's infamous I hate

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Speaker 8: Taylor Swift. Another drags a vice president to it. Not

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Speaker 8: even JD just Dance Vans can save Trump from the

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Speaker 8: disastrous maps war he has started. Not even his eyeliner

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Speaker 8: lines look as pretty as California map lines.

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Speaker 9: He will fail as he always does.

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Speaker 8: Sad and I, the peacetime governor of our nation's favorite,

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Speaker 8: will save America once again. Many are now calling me

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Speaker 8: Gavin Christopher Columbus Newsom because of the maps. Thank you

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Speaker 8: for your attention to this matter. Beyond the mockery of

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Speaker 8: Trump's text post, Newsom has also been posting Trump style

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Speaker 8: AI generated images of himself, including this I think absolute

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Speaker 8: masterpiece of Newsom deep in a moment of reflection or

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Speaker 8: prayer link by three Maga icons and the laying of

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Speaker 8: hands Kid Rock who he hates, Tucker Carlson, and the

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Speaker 8: angelic spirit of the recently departed Hulk Holgan again a

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Speaker 8: spot on mockery Trump, who.

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Speaker 9: Isn't doing any of this satirically.

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Speaker 8: What has been equally hilarious has been to watch the

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Speaker 8: joke just go soaring over the heads of Trump's sick

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Speaker 8: ofphants in the media for.

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Speaker 9: The last week.

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Speaker 10: Devin Newsom, Why am I giving him advice? You had

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Speaker 10: to stop it with the Twitter thing. I don't know

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Speaker 10: where his wife is. I want his wife. I would say,

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Speaker 10: you are making a fool of yourself. Stop it, Do

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Speaker 10: not let your staff tweet. And if you're doing it yourself,

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Speaker 10: put the phone away and start over. And if you want.

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Speaker 10: He's got a big job as governor of California, but

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Speaker 10: if he wants an even bigger job, he has to

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Speaker 10: be a little bit more serious.

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Speaker 8: Yes, right, be more serious, stop posting exactly like the

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Speaker 8: President the United States does. Newsome's account responded to that

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Speaker 8: advice quote, Dana ding Dong Pirno never heard of Hegel

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Speaker 8: today is melting.

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Speaker 9: Down because of me.

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Speaker 8: God and c Newsom Fox hate that I am America's

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Speaker 8: most favorite governor ratings King saving America. Trump has lost

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Speaker 8: his step and Fox is losing it because when I'm

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Speaker 8: type American that wins. Thank you for your attention this

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Speaker 8: matter again. It is just it is a stark reminder

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Speaker 8: with someone else doing it of how truly utterly deranged

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Speaker 8: our current president sounds whenever he communicates, and also how

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Speaker 8: accustomed we've all become to this very very weird behavior.

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Speaker 3: I know, we wouldn't be talking about this serus. He

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Speaker 3: was just bad tweets.

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Speaker 4: Right, We're talking about it because I think it shows

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Speaker 4: a fundamental and ability of the DNC to meet the

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Speaker 4: moment right now. Yeah, we're talking about it because people

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Speaker 4: are dying, Yes, and more people will die as a

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Speaker 4: result of this administration's policies. Other people are being imprisoned,

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Speaker 4: and like I, you know, the damage being done you know,

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Speaker 4: to medical science, to the future of humanity, to the

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Speaker 4: future of this country is tremendous and escalating. And the

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Speaker 4: fact that like this is the best a major a

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Speaker 4: major contender for the Democratic presidential candidate in twenty twenty

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Speaker 4: eight has been able to pull out so far is

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Speaker 4: like terrifying.

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Speaker 2: Like and again, obviously no one should be reliant upon

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Speaker 2: the dims. But unfortunately, also like, what are you got

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Speaker 2: to do? What am I going to do?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 2: I don't have the resources of the Democratic Party. I

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Speaker 2: don't have a bunch of elected leaders listening to me. Like,

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Speaker 2: because of the status of our situation, individual people in

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Speaker 2: small groups in towns, and you know, we talk about

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Speaker 2: mutual aid on this show, we talk about unions. All

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Speaker 2: of these increased personal resiliency. They increase the ability of

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Speaker 2: groups and of individuals within groups to be resilient. But

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Speaker 2: none of that is going to stop the fucking DHS

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Speaker 2: from turning into the SS right Yeah, and the Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party clearly fucking isn't either. But the fact that this

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Speaker 2: is what they're doing instead of effective resistance is I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's important. I wish there was more to say than

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Speaker 2: we should know how badly they're failing us. Right, Yeah, Like.

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Speaker 4: A world where Democrat gets elected in twenty twenty eight,

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Speaker 4: it's getting less awful less quickly, and we should want them, yes, right,

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Speaker 4: Like I'm not one of these Like acceleration is.

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Speaker 2: No, I just I don't think that's going to help either, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, right now.

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Speaker 4: It is accelerating and it is bad. There are so

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Speaker 4: many obvious challenges Democrats can make. And I want to

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Speaker 4: play Robert. Have you seen this Graham plant for Senate

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Speaker 4: campaign ad?

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Speaker 9: No mane all right, I'm going to.

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Speaker 4: Play this for you, like I think it's good as

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Speaker 4: a contrast, right, But.

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Speaker 11: I love most about man of the people. I have

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Speaker 11: never met people who are more hard scrabble, even in

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Speaker 11: a place that requires you to work like two or

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Speaker 11: three different jobs. We have watched this state become essentially

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Speaker 11: unlivable for working class people, and it makes me deeply angry.

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Speaker 11: My name is Graham Plattner, and I'm running for US

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Speaker 11: Senate and Maine to defeat Susan Collins. A decade of

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Speaker 11: military service, going overseas, farming oysters to feed my community,

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Speaker 11: diving to lend a hand to other fishermen, trying to

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Speaker 11: start a family. But everywhere I've gone, it seems like

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Speaker 11: the fabric of what holds us together is being ripped

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Speaker 11: apart by billionaires and corrupt politicians profiting off of destroying

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Speaker 11: our environment, driving our families in the pop and crushing

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Speaker 11: the middle class. I did four infantry tours in the

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Speaker 11: Marine corps in the army. I'm not afraid to name

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Speaker 11: an enemy, and the enemy is the oligarchy. It's the

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Speaker 11: billionaires who pay for it and the politicians who sell

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Speaker 11: us out. And yeah, that means politicians like Susan Collins.

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Speaker 11: I'm not fooled by this fake charade of Collins deliberations

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Speaker 11: and moderation. The difference between Susan Collins and Ted Cruz

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Speaker 11: is at least Ted Cruz is honest about selling us

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Speaker 11: out and not giving a damn. People know that the

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Speaker 11: system is screwing them. They know it in their bones.

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Speaker 11: Nobody I know around here can afford a house. Healthcare

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Speaker 11: is a disaster. Hospitals are closing. We have watched all

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Speaker 11: of that get ripped away from us, and everyone just

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Speaker 11: trying to keep it all together. Why can't we have

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Speaker 11: universal health care like every other first world country. Why

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Speaker 11: can't we take care of our veterans when they come home.

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Speaker 11: Why are we funding endless wars and bombing children? Why

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Speaker 11: are CEO is more powerful than unions? We fought three

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Speaker 11: different wars since the last time we raised the minimum wage.

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Speaker 11: I'm not pretending to have all the answers, but I

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Speaker 11: know that I'm asking the ray questions. When I tell

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Speaker 11: people around here that I'm running for Senate, sometimes the

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Speaker 11: initial reaction is what. But when I tell them why,

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Speaker 11: I'm doing it because I truly do believe that we

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Speaker 11: can build a system that is going to represent working people,

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Speaker 11: the number one response has been, well, thank god, somebody's

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Speaker 11: going to do it. You're supposed to fight for the

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Speaker 11: things you love. This is our home, and I will

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Speaker 11: fight tirelessly for it for you. It's maner's first in

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Speaker 11: Maine always.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that didn't seem bad.

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Speaker 12: No, it's good.

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Speaker 2: That's that's a solid ad.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, Like the BA is reasonably low. But like

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Speaker 4: that dude hit it, I think.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, yeah, Like I would say that's just

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Speaker 2: outright good, like if I were if I were crafting

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Speaker 2: an ad to run from other than the fact that

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Speaker 2: he's lived a different life, but like how he's talking

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Speaker 2: about the oligarchy, how he's talking about the life act

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Speaker 2: of progress on things like minimum wage and how unacceptable

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Speaker 2: it is, and like how the difference between Susan Collins

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Speaker 2: and Ted Cruise is that at least Ted Cruise is honest, Like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm on board this guy. Yeah, this guy seems like.

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Speaker 3: He rips, But I would vote for that dude. Like, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 3: he might turn into a fucking fatimen, but.

437
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 2: Like, I mean, they can all get milkshake ducked. But

438
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 2: he's saying the right things at this point.

439
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,119
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's remarkably straightforward, right like yeah, and yeah, that

440
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,640
Speaker 4: seems to evade most Democrats.

441
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: He's he's got the audio of a car ad But

442
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 2: I guess if it works, it works. That's the thing.

443
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,840
Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not familiar with the Platinu race,

444
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 2: so I'm not sure where the polling showing.

445
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,880
Speaker 4: This video is like two days old, Like he's extremely fresh.

446
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 4: So yeah, I will say that visually it hangs together. Dude,

447
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,680
Speaker 4: Jesus the same open soel wetsuit. I do, Like he

448
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:49,520
Speaker 4: didn't just buy all this shit, Like didn't buy an

449
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,560
Speaker 4: axe and chopping for the first time in this video,

450
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 4: right right right, He.

451
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 2: Didn't do the normal weird democrat trying to reach out

452
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: to a rural thing of like posing awkwardly with a shotgun.

453
00:22:59,119 --> 00:22:59,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

454
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, like this is a dude, and just like physically

455
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,280
Speaker 4: he appears to have done some work with his hands.

456
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, he looks like a working class guy.

457
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's compare this to like Newsome has not done

458
00:23:11,240 --> 00:23:13,600
Speaker 4: the material things that he could be doing instead of

459
00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:16,320
Speaker 4: tweeting right. Trump didn't call it the California National guid

460
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,560
Speaker 4: under the Insurrection Act. He used Title ten, Section yeah

461
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 4: one two four zero six of the US Code. That

462
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,479
Speaker 4: section states orders for these purposes should be issued through

463
00:23:25,520 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 4: the governors of the states. It also outlines the procedures

464
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,440
Speaker 4: for DC which we don't care about here. I didn't

465
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 4: see why he could at least try to force the

466
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 4: issue in ordering the guard to go home. He's pursuing

467
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 4: a court case yet, but leg forced the crisis because we're.

468
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:40,640
Speaker 3: Already in one.

469
00:23:40,680 --> 00:23:44,639
Speaker 4: He has not taken a single meaningful action to stop

470
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,440
Speaker 4: I snatching people from our communities in California, nor has

471
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:52,280
Speaker 4: his Attorney General taken a single meaningful action to stop

472
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 4: individual sheriff's departments from violating SB fifty four. SB fifty

473
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:58,520
Speaker 4: four if you're not familiar as a California Values Act,

474
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 4: which limits which which inmates can be transferred to ice

475
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,320
Speaker 4: custody and when. It doesn't oblige anyone to transfer them,

476
00:24:06,560 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 4: but it does allow them to transfer them if certain

477
00:24:09,080 --> 00:24:12,120
Speaker 4: felonies have been committed in the last fifteen years. The

478
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 4: San Diego Sheriff has been accused of violating this are

479
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 4: linked to a KPBS article on that where they transferred

480
00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,840
Speaker 4: to someone who, according to claims in the article, had

481
00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:22,000
Speaker 4: a twenty one year old conviction. Where As I said

482
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:26,040
Speaker 4: before the cutoff fifteen years, Newsom could do something about

483
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 4: the surveillance which is being installed all over California. These

484
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 4: license plates readers at the ones at San Diego has

485
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 4: spent thousands, if not billions of dollars on these license

486
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 4: plate readers have had their information shared with federal agencies

487
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:43,720
Speaker 4: more than one hundred times in May alone.

488
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:45,560
Speaker 3: According to cal Matters.

489
00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 4: That is a violation of California law. Specifically, it's Senate

490
00:24:50,359 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 4: Bill thirty four, which limits the sharing of licensed plate data.

491
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:59,159
Speaker 4: Rob Bonto issued an advisory, but again, this is resulting

492
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 4: in our communities being harassed. Right Californian's being snatched. Newsom

493
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,960
Speaker 4: has done nothing about that. He could stand up for

494
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 4: unhouse people, but instead, alongside Todd Glory, he has led

495
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,200
Speaker 4: the charge against Todd. Glory is seemingly intent on driving

496
00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 4: our city into debt to pursue Castrow approach against thee

497
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 4: unhoused Newsome posed for a photo shoot destroying unhoused people's property.

498
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,119
Speaker 4: He hasn't done a single thing that puts him at

499
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,920
Speaker 4: any risk. Right. He's presenting himself in this Sean ram

500
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,679
Speaker 4: podcast the big risk taker because he spoke out about

501
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:39,239
Speaker 4: fucking teenage girls running, right, But he hasn't put his

502
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 4: neck on the line once for marginalized people in california're anywhere.

503
00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 2: Else, absolutely not.

504
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,000
Speaker 4: I think where I want to end is I don't

505
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 4: want you to engage with Newsom's tweets like that doesn't help.

506
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:54,200
Speaker 4: He's going to mistake that for making a difference, right,

507
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:56,919
Speaker 4: because I think for a lot of people in the

508
00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,600
Speaker 4: legacy media and probably knew some of his friends, the

509
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 4: real tragedy of what's happened in the last eight months

510
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 4: is that they have to see scary, nasty stuff on

511
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:08,520
Speaker 4: their telephones. So seeing something funny on their telephone seems

512
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 4: like an antidote because it's not their community, it's not

513
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 4: their people, and it's not people they fundamentally give a

514
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 4: shit about either. That I think is why to them

515
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:20,600
Speaker 4: this seems effective and hopefully to you, as it does

516
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 4: to me, it seems completely ineffective.

517
00:26:22,840 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. How much else to say, it's

518
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:28,439
Speaker 2: nice to see guys like Platner at least seem to

519
00:26:28,480 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 2: be figuring it out. I've been looking into it, and

520
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,320
Speaker 2: there's there's not much polling. There's not really any polling

521
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 2: because I how recently he announced his bid to show

522
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 2: how well he's doing. Other than that, the video has

523
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: got like two and a half million views something like that,

524
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,920
Speaker 2: which is good and seems to be spreading well online.

525
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 2: But that doesn't translate electorally. What we do have electorally

526
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 2: is that polls in Maine show that the Democratic Party

527
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,359
Speaker 2: is historically unpopular, including with Democrats. This is from a

528
00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,879
Speaker 2: July survey. There's a good article in PBS that's just

529
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 2: they roll right over. Many Democrats think their party is weak.

530
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 2: Ap n O RC whole finds. Oh sorry, this is

531
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 2: actually no, sorry, this is overall across US adults. Sorry.

532
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 2: The initial article I had seemed to be saying that

533
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 2: this was just in May. No, this is this is nationwide, right,

534
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: So I mean, I think that what Platner has seen,

535
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 2: the opportunity he's seen is real that there are a

536
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: lot of people who are not at all interested in

537
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 2: voting for a Republican who have not been swayed to

538
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:32,439
Speaker 2: the right, who identify as Democrats but hate the party

539
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,680
Speaker 2: and think it is weak. Right, Like about two inten Democrats,

540
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 2: according to this poll, described their party positively. One intent

541
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 2: said it was empathetic and inclusive. That's terrible, right, and

542
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 2: that is that I mean, that shows that just what

543
00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:47,640
Speaker 2: we were saying kind of based on our gut, which

544
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 2: is it's a bad idea to hang people out to

545
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 2: dry because you don't think you can defend them. You

546
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: think that it'll be beneficial politically to make the choice

547
00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 2: to you know, let them die basically. Yeah, And it's

548
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 2: it seems like Democrats largely are responding by saying, well,

549
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: this party doesn't give a shit about us, and they

550
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,959
Speaker 2: are ineffective. They can't do fuck all, right, Yeah, and

551
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: that's definitely what's happening. So, yeah, I don't know if

552
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 2: Platner is gonna win, but I'm growing more convinced every

553
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:18,719
Speaker 2: day that there is opportunity for people who are actually

554
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,320
Speaker 2: willing to fight these bastards. Yeah, and you understanding that

555
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,240
Speaker 2: fighting these bastards isn't just like, well, let's give them

556
00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 2: almost everything they want and hope that somehow lets us win.

557
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 7: Yeah.

558
00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, talking of like not leaving people out to dry,

559
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 4: for instance, talking about trans women in sports, he says

560
00:28:34,040 --> 00:28:36,880
Speaker 4: it's abstraction from the things that impact Americans materially every

561
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 4: single day. Then he said, I'm dedicated to a quality

562
00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 4: and justice for all in this country. And I think

563
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 4: the specific topic has become such a touchstone of the

564
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,360
Speaker 4: media discussion because it pulls away from the conversation that

565
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:49,680
Speaker 4: needs to be happening is getting every American affordable healthcare.

566
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,240
Speaker 4: It's not the best response, it's not the worst one either, Like,

567
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 4: and I think he is right. For most of these

568
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 4: conservative people, they don't care about women's sports, right, They're

569
00:28:57,560 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 4: not there when women are getting shit priced, women are

570
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 4: getting shit TV time.

571
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,000
Speaker 3: This for them is just a culture war issue.

572
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,000
Speaker 4: He also called the genocide and Gazara a genocide, which

573
00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:09,640
Speaker 4: is something that it's like.

574
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I enjoyed the line about where we're just killing

575
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: kids with bombs.

576
00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I think that he He didn't mince his

577
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 4: words about it. When asked by ABC, he said he's

578
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 4: following the leader of Israeli scholars on genocide on this issue.

579
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:26,680
Speaker 4: So yeah, like, it's remarkably easy, right to build a

580
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 4: coalition right now of people who are fucking mad. And

581
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 4: a lot of people voted for Donald Trump because they

582
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 4: were sick of this same smami bullshit. Some of them

583
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 4: are to vote Johnal Trump because a hateful, terrible, fucking

584
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 4: people right. Just to be super clear, Yeah, but like

585
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 4: it's so easy, and yet it seems to be evading,

586
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:48,360
Speaker 4: Like you say, the presumptive nominee, that this guy who

587
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 4: for for nearly a decade we have assumed we'll run

588
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 4: in twenty twenty eight. And I guess I know, fuck

589
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom. I hope that he does not succeed with

590
00:29:57,760 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 4: his presidential campaign missions.

591
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: Yeah all right, well that's yeah, most of what I

592
00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:03,800
Speaker 2: got to say about that son of a bit.

593
00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 13: Yep, me too. Let's roll out, Bye bye.

594
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 14: Hello everyone, I'm welcome to it can happen here. My

595
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:30,080
Speaker 14: name is Daniel Kurd, and I'm a writer, analyst, and

596
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 14: researcher of Palestinian and Arab politics. I'm an associate professor

597
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:36,760
Speaker 14: of political science and a senior non resident fellow at

598
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:40,120
Speaker 14: the Arab Center Washington. I'm also occasional co host of

599
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 14: The Fire These Times. Today, I want to talk about

600
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:48,360
Speaker 14: the attacks on American universities in American academia and what

601
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,440
Speaker 14: role Palestine plays in all of this, and maybe end

602
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 14: on what's being done to stop it. So you may

603
00:30:55,080 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 14: or may not have heard about the attacks on universities

604
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 14: in academia, but given the general onslaught of disastrous news,

605
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,760
Speaker 14: even for those of you who have noted something is

606
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 14: happening in higher education may not be keeping up with

607
00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:10,440
Speaker 14: the details. So let me give you a brief summary.

608
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 14: A number of universities, including Harvard, Brown, Columbia, and UCLA,

609
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:21,200
Speaker 14: have been investigated for campus anti semitism related to pro

610
00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:24,680
Speaker 14: Palestine protests on those campuses over the past two years.

611
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 14: From there, the Trump administration has escalated by slashing federal

612
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:34,560
Speaker 14: funding that those universities receive and forcing those universities to

613
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:39,200
Speaker 14: settle with the administration not only monetarily, but also by

614
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:43,600
Speaker 14: implementing changes to how their universities are run. So, for example,

615
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 14: Columbia University agreed to pay the Trump administration two hundred

616
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 14: and twenty million dollars punish seventy students involved in the

617
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 14: protests in a variety of ways, including by expelling them,

618
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 14: and they agreed to monitor and report their programs for

619
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,560
Speaker 14: unlawful dea goals, that's a quote. One of the ways

620
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 14: Columbia has agreed to monitor, as the Intercept reported in April,

621
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 14: is by appointing a vice provost in charge of monitoring

622
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 14: the Middle Eastern, South Asian and African Studies Department, in

623
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 14: particular for quote balanced curricula. The faculty in that department

624
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 14: will no longer run that department, and as the Middle

625
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,200
Speaker 14: East Studies Association, in a statement back in March noted, this,

626
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 14: placing the department under administrative receivership is a quote fundamental

627
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,959
Speaker 14: abrogation of the autonomy of university governance. This comes at

628
00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 14: a time when the Trump administration has also attacked the

629
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 14: National Science Foundation, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the

630
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 14: National Institutes of Health. All of these are federal funding

631
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,840
Speaker 14: sources for the majority of research that happens at universities

632
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 14: across disciplines the natural sciences, social sciences, humanities. The Trumpet

633
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 14: administration has also attacked foreign students and the processes by

634
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,200
Speaker 14: which they are able to get visa study in the

635
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 14: United States, which is just another way to get at

636
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 14: a major revenue source for many universities. But why is

637
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 14: the Trump administration doing all this. Here is Vice President JD.

638
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 14: Vance speaking to the National Conservatism Conference back in twenty

639
00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:13,240
Speaker 14: twenty one.

640
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:17,200
Speaker 6: We have to honestly and aggressively attack the universities in

641
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:17,760
Speaker 6: this country.

642
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:18,680
Speaker 9: Ladies and gentlemen.

643
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,920
Speaker 6: The universities do not pursue knowledge and truth. They pursued

644
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:25,440
Speaker 6: deceit and lies. And it's time to be honest about

645
00:33:25,480 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 6: that fact. And we subsidize, we support, and in our

646
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 6: own ways all of us reinforce the power of universities

647
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 6: to control our lives and control how we live them.

648
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 6: So much of what drives truth and knowledge as we

649
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 6: understand it in this country is fundamentally determined by, supported by,

650
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,080
Speaker 6: and reinforced by the universities in this country.

651
00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 14: So that's Vance before him and Trump won the election,

652
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 14: identifying that universities are sites of power. Therefore, he argues

653
00:33:57,960 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 14: very explicitly that conservatives must destroy these sites of power

654
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 14: or submit them to their will. Are universities truly sites

655
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 14: of power? The short answer is yes, for two reasons.

656
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:15,279
Speaker 14: Number One, as Vance themselves identifies, universities produce knowledge, and

657
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,520
Speaker 14: that knowledge produce that universities drives innovation in the private sector,

658
00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:24,960
Speaker 14: in tech, in health, and weapons, manufacturing, universities are a

659
00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 14: main engine of economic growth. In fact, universities are part

660
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 14: and parcel of American global power. They are a major

661
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:35,359
Speaker 14: source of that power for the United States, whether in

662
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 14: the students and scholars they attract, whether for their research

663
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 14: that they produce that various arms of the American government

664
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 14: can use, or whether for the legitimization that universities provide

665
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 14: for certain frameworks like the frame market liberalism, etc.

666
00:34:50,200 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 7: Etc.

667
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 14: So, really, universities largely generate power for the powers that be,

668
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 14: But sometimes universities are also sites of power that can

669
00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:05,799
Speaker 14: challenge orthodoxies. With greater inclusion of scholars and students from

670
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 14: a variety of backgrounds, we get a diversity of thought.

671
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 14: And because of how universities are supposed to run in theory,

672
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 14: as governed by faculty and as sites of free inquiry,

673
00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:23,440
Speaker 14: that means sometimes occasionally knowledge is produced that can challenge

674
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 14: power too. That sometimes occasional knowledge production is too much

675
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 14: for the jd vances of today's politics, though, so they're

676
00:35:31,560 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 14: cracking down. The number two reason why universities are sites

677
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 14: of power is because they offer a promise of social mobility.

678
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,480
Speaker 14: And that's generally true too, even the most modest regional

679
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 14: public school in America still offer some of the highest

680
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 14: quality of education you can get around the world, but

681
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 14: that shot at upward social mobility that you can get

682
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 14: with the university of education is definitely getting harder and

683
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 14: costlier and less accessible. There's this book by Mark Busque

684
00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 14: I highly recommend reading, titled How the University Works. In it,

685
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 14: the author details how as universities became more corporatized, tuition increased,

686
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 14: university workers were disempowered, and the value of a degree plummeted.

687
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:24,240
Speaker 14: And this process started way before Trump. Clifford Ando, professor

688
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 14: of Classics and History at the University of Chicago, wrote

689
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:30,400
Speaker 14: for Compact magazine recently on what's happening at the University

690
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,080
Speaker 14: of Chicago right now for those who may be unaware.

691
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 14: At the University of Chicago, the university is stopping PhD emissions,

692
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:42,360
Speaker 14: it's increasing enrollment numbers, it's slashing budgets, it's even proposing

693
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 14: to teach some courses using chat GPT. Ando argues that

694
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,760
Speaker 14: this current dismantling of University of Chicago that we're witnessing

695
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:53,840
Speaker 14: is again not Trump related, but can be traced to

696
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 14: this corporatization of the university where universities prioritized money making,

697
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:04,080
Speaker 14: technology and investments, and as he writes, quote fundamentally corroded

698
00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:10,400
Speaker 14: policymaking at universities. So to get a high quality education today,

699
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 14: at a university that isn't trying to trap you as

700
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 14: cheap labor or doesn't just use overworked adjuncts to teach

701
00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 14: courses to avoid paying faculty their worth, you need to

702
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,840
Speaker 14: either come from money, or you need to be highly

703
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,919
Speaker 14: highly exceptional, or you need to accrue exorbitant amounts of debt.

704
00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 14: And yet, and yet, marginalized people still made advances in

705
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:36,520
Speaker 14: this system. We saw, for example, more African American presidents

706
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 14: of universities, more women, We saw diversifying scholarship courses, pathways

707
00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:47,280
Speaker 14: for students as universities became more inclusive. That's what diversity,

708
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 14: equity and inclusion efforts did. Imperfect as they were, and

709
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,360
Speaker 14: even though the university as an institution continues to exploit labor,

710
00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:59,920
Speaker 14: continues to exploit their own students, often doesn't deliver enough

711
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,600
Speaker 14: on the promise of social mobility. Even delivering a little

712
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,680
Speaker 14: was too much for the Jdvanss of the world. They

713
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 14: don't want upward social mobility for some Americans, and they

714
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 14: don't want those challenges to power, even at the margins,

715
00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:19,840
Speaker 14: so they're cracking down. The attacks on Harvard, Brown, George Washington, UCLA,

716
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:24,640
Speaker 14: the list goes on, is predicated on attacking DEI Diversity,

717
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:29,240
Speaker 14: equity and inclusion. Conservatives alleged that universities taking a person's

718
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 14: background into consideration and admissions or in hiring or in scholarships, etc.

719
00:38:34,920 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 14: All of that violates anti discrimination laws. And our conservative

720
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 14: Supreme Court, in its recent ruling in the cases of

721
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:45,120
Speaker 14: Students for Fair Admissions versus University of North Carolina and

722
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,360
Speaker 14: Students for Vera Admissions versus Harvard, agreed they overturned the

723
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 14: two thousand and three Grotta versus Bollinger case that had

724
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,520
Speaker 14: allowed higher education institutions to consider race and admissions. And

725
00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,120
Speaker 14: all of this comes at a time after decades of

726
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,600
Speaker 14: the university an institution eroded itself. But I would say

727
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 14: attacking DEI wasn't effective enough, especially after the Black Lives

728
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:14,319
Speaker 14: Matter movement. Saying DEI is bad is a harder sell

729
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,479
Speaker 14: for an American public fifty one percent of which say

730
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 14: they support Black Lives Matter. And this was according to

731
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,399
Speaker 14: a twenty twenty three study by the Pere Research Center. Now,

732
00:39:23,400 --> 00:39:26,479
Speaker 14: fifty one percent isn't overwhelming, but it's not nothing either.

733
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,720
Speaker 14: So conservatives to attack the university have had to exploit

734
00:39:31,760 --> 00:39:35,399
Speaker 14: the weaknesses that already exist within the academy. That has

735
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:39,800
Speaker 14: meant exploiting the way the university's institution has become sensitive

736
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:43,919
Speaker 14: to money and endowments and donors, and that has meant

737
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 14: exploiting the way the university has not actually been a

738
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 14: site of free inquiry or expression for particular people and

739
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:55,799
Speaker 14: particular topics. And by exploiting and expanding that gap, they

740
00:39:55,840 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 14: are now trying to take those freedoms away from everybody.

741
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:12,400
Speaker 14: This is where Palestine comes in. The truth is attacks

742
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,319
Speaker 14: on student protesters for Palestine, attacks on scholars who work

743
00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:20,840
Speaker 14: on Palestine or speak on Palestine. That all started before Trump,

744
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 14: and that has become the blueprint for attacking universities and

745
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 14: academic freedom. Generally, they're using the pro Palestine protests, pro

746
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 14: Palestine programming, or just any knowledge production about Palestine as

747
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 14: an excuse to allege anti Semitism. Enter into these investigations

748
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 14: and demand the universities do what they want. After the

749
00:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 14: Hamas October seventh attacks, we saw student protesters detained like

750
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:53,399
Speaker 14: Mahmud Kriil Columbia and remaisa ouster Get Tufts and many more.

751
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 14: We have seen diplomas withheld, like what Virginia Commonwealth University

752
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 14: attempted to do to many students, including students sitting in Hadad.

753
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,239
Speaker 14: We have seen professors put on leave or fired like

754
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,600
Speaker 14: what Muhlenberg College did to Mora Finkelstein. The list goes

755
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:12,760
Speaker 14: on and on, but again, a lot of this pattern

756
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 14: started before Trump. In a November twenty twenty three poll

757
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 14: conducted by political scientists Mark Lynch and Shibley Telheme called

758
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,360
Speaker 14: the Middle East Scholar Barometer, the results show that sixty

759
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,160
Speaker 14: six percent of faculty members who study the Middle East

760
00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 14: quote self censor when speaking about the Middle East in

761
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,399
Speaker 14: an academic or professional setting, and that number goes up

762
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:40,280
Speaker 14: to seventy seven point four percent when talking about Israel Palestine.

763
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,560
Speaker 14: On the Israel Palstonin issue in particular, almost fifty two

764
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 14: percent of scholars have concerns about pressure from external advocacy groups,

765
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,399
Speaker 14: and of those who said they self censor, a full

766
00:41:52,520 --> 00:41:55,400
Speaker 14: eighty three percent said the issue they most feel the

767
00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:58,759
Speaker 14: need to censor themselves about is anything related to criticism

768
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 14: of Israel. This is a crazy number if you consider

769
00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 14: that of the same group, only one point six percent

770
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,440
Speaker 14: of respondents said they censored criticism of US policy, and

771
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:14,840
Speaker 14: a full ninety eight percent of assistant professors untenured professors

772
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 14: who work on the Middle East quote feel the need

773
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 14: to self censor when speaking about the Palestinian Israeli issue

774
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,880
Speaker 14: in an academic or professional capacity. Part of this story,

775
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 14: the censorship story, is the large scale adoption of the

776
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:35,120
Speaker 14: International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition of anti Semitism. Back during

777
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:39,520
Speaker 14: his first term, President Trump's Executive Order on Combating Anti

778
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 14: Semitism directed government bodies to take the IRA definition into

779
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,200
Speaker 14: consideration when enforcing Title six, which is a part of

780
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,960
Speaker 14: the Civil Rights Act of nineteen sixty four that prohibits

781
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:53,960
Speaker 14: discrimination based on race, color, religion, sex, and national origin.

782
00:42:54,680 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 14: The Biden administration didn't overturn any of that either. They

783
00:42:57,719 --> 00:43:02,239
Speaker 14: implemented that executive Order themselves throughout their tenure. And this

784
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 14: definition is one definition of anti semitism that critics say

785
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 14: conflates criticism of Israel with anti semitism. In fact, the

786
00:43:11,480 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 14: main drafter of the IRA definition, ken Stearn, has expressed

787
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,480
Speaker 14: concerns that this definition is being used as a quote

788
00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:23,360
Speaker 14: blunt instrument to label anyone an antisemit, and it's for

789
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 14: that reason that Human Rights Watch and one hundred and

790
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 14: four other organizations signed a letter urging the UN not

791
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,319
Speaker 14: to use this IRA definition. As a result, there are,

792
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 14: of course, a number of competing definitions of antisemitism, such

793
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:41,279
Speaker 14: as the Jerusalem Declaration on Antisemitism, that has a more

794
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:45,359
Speaker 14: nuanced understanding of one criticism of Israel becomes antisemitism. As

795
00:43:45,400 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 14: their website notes, the Jerusalem Declaration is a product of

796
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,759
Speaker 14: an initiative that originated in Jerusalem and includes in their

797
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 14: numbers international scholars working in anti Semitism studies and related

798
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 14: fields including Jewish Holocaust, Israel, Palestine, and Middle East. But

799
00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,640
Speaker 14: of course the IRA definition is the one that the

800
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,160
Speaker 14: Trump administration wants to follow and the one that universities

801
00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 14: are adopting. Maybe it goes without saying, but I'll say

802
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 14: it anyway. It's not because this administration that engages with

803
00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 14: the far right and propagates conspiracy theories like the Great Replacement,

804
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 14: It's not like they actually care about anti Semitism. It's

805
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,759
Speaker 14: just a tool. As Jewish organizations working to combat anti Semitism,

806
00:44:26,880 --> 00:44:30,400
Speaker 14: such as the Nexus Project explicitly point out it's a

807
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:34,480
Speaker 14: way to quote weaponize anti semitism by attacking free speech

808
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 14: DEI foreign students, and in this environment we can understand

809
00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 14: why there's so much fear to speak up and so

810
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,160
Speaker 14: much self censorship. You can be falsely accused of anti

811
00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 14: semitism for bringing up Palestine as a topic of discussion,

812
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 14: for trying to study what's happening, for trying to produce

813
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,399
Speaker 14: any sort of knowledge on what's going on. I also

814
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,360
Speaker 14: really want to score that this self censorship and fear

815
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 14: that already existed in a space in academia is a

816
00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 14: worsening trend today, but it definitely existed before October seventh too.

817
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,160
Speaker 14: Take it from me as someone who studies Palestine in

818
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 14: American academia. Palestinian scholars have long been under attack in

819
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 14: the American academy. But after October seventh and before Trump,

820
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 14: this of course got worse. External actors and donors got

821
00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:29,160
Speaker 14: involved in campus governance. As we saw in Harvard and

822
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:34,360
Speaker 14: many other places, University administrations cracked down on students, professors, everyone,

823
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,760
Speaker 14: often preemptively doing the work of the right wing because

824
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:40,240
Speaker 14: they thought that taking away freedoms from some groups wouldn't

825
00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:43,400
Speaker 14: come back to bite them. And this is how Palestine

826
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 14: is now one of the cudgels that Trump is using

827
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 14: to attack universities and the academy. And it's an effective

828
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,560
Speaker 14: cudgel because some liberals in universities and outside universities can

829
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,360
Speaker 14: also be persuaded to attack scholarship on Palestine and students

830
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:02,560
Speaker 14: who speak on Palestine. But those exceptions to academic freedom

831
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,759
Speaker 14: that have long existed in the academy are now being

832
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 14: used to attack everyone. A quick note here to outline

833
00:46:09,640 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 14: what academic freedom for a faculty member actually means. As

834
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 14: the American Association of University Professors the AAUP notes on

835
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,839
Speaker 14: their website, academic freedom has these main elements. Number one,

836
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 14: the freedom to discuss relevant matters in the classroom. Number two,

837
00:46:27,480 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 14: the freedom to explore all avenues of scholarship, research, and

838
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:33,200
Speaker 14: creative expression, and to publish the results of such work.

839
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 14: Number three intramural speech freedom from institutional censorship or discipline

840
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 14: when addressing matters of institutional policy or action. And number

841
00:46:42,920 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 14: four extramural speech freedom from institutional censorship or discipline when

842
00:46:47,719 --> 00:46:51,680
Speaker 14: speaking or writing. As citizens. So faculty members are allowed

843
00:46:51,880 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 14: to speak on matters as citizens. Being a faculty member

844
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,000
Speaker 14: and being a member of the university community does not

845
00:46:58,040 --> 00:47:01,120
Speaker 14: take away their right to be citizens. That last one

846
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 14: is worth emphasizing. To maintain universities as sites of free

847
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 14: inquiry and knowledge production, there has to be academic freedom,

848
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 14: and that freedom includes teaching, research, intramulo speech, and extramural speech.

849
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 14: You can't censor people you don't like or don't agree

850
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,880
Speaker 14: with and think your institution and your university will continue

851
00:47:20,920 --> 00:47:23,640
Speaker 14: to function. You certainly can't do that and think the

852
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 14: right wing won't sniff it out and use it against you.

853
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 14: So what's to be done? Things are happening, People are

854
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 14: fighting back, and just like Palestine has been the Canarian

855
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:38,160
Speaker 14: the coal mine for so many things, including the assault

856
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,360
Speaker 14: on American academia, Palestine may be one of those crucial

857
00:47:41,400 --> 00:47:44,840
Speaker 14: issues that helps academics and students and faculty to organize

858
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 14: in this moment. For example, because of the arrests of

859
00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 14: pro Palestine students and their attempted deportation, the American Association

860
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,520
Speaker 14: of University Professors, alongside the Middle Ease Studies Association and

861
00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 14: the Night First Amendment Institute, sued the Trump administration over

862
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 14: this policy of arresting and threatening deportation for a lawful

863
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 14: speech on Palestine. The AAUP is also now ap plaintive

864
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 14: in a number of cases challenging the Trump administration on

865
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,240
Speaker 14: a tax on DEI, attempting to abolish the Department of Education,

866
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 14: cuts and federal funding of research, etc. An attacks on

867
00:48:19,960 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 14: students and faculty after October seventh, which set off this

868
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:26,839
Speaker 14: whole barrage of attacks on university since then, have galvanized

869
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 14: people to demand their university administrations uphold academic freedom. In

870
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 14: twenty twenty four, nearly forty chapters of the AAUP were

871
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 14: founded or re established across the US. Even professors who

872
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,120
Speaker 14: don't teach or study the Middle East or Palestine are

873
00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:43,280
Speaker 14: starting to speak out about the dangers of these moments

874
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,760
Speaker 14: and these trends. I think people are starting to realize

875
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:50,160
Speaker 14: that American universities will have to uphold their ideals of

876
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 14: faculty governance, free inquiry, free thought for everyone, or they

877
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:59,520
Speaker 14: really will cease to exist. That's all I have for

878
00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:01,680
Speaker 14: you today. I'll be back soon to talk more about

879
00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,200
Speaker 14: the latest developments in Palestine. Stay strong, everybody, Thanks for listening.

880
00:49:20,120 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 7: Welcome to Ikadath to hear a podcast about things falling

881
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:27,279
Speaker 7: apart and also sometimes about how not to put them

882
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:30,480
Speaker 7: back together and how to fail to put them back together.

883
00:49:31,239 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 7: I am your host, Miya Wong, and today we are

884
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,840
Speaker 7: going to be talking about the place where the anti

885
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:41,920
Speaker 7: trians crusade began, North Carolina, and about the recent spade

886
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:44,279
Speaker 7: of anti trans bills that have been passed there. And

887
00:49:44,400 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 7: with me to talk about this is David Forbes, an

888
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:49,560
Speaker 7: editor and journalist with a trans news network and the

889
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 7: Asheville Blade. David, welcome to the show.

890
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 9: Thank you.

891
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:54,000
Speaker 6: So.

892
00:49:54,239 --> 00:49:57,120
Speaker 7: I think some people, if you're listening to the show,

893
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 7: you may remember that North Carolina is the state that

894
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 7: passed the first bathroom bills. But what has gotten significantly

895
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,080
Speaker 7: less attention is a everything that happened after that, and

896
00:50:07,239 --> 00:50:12,560
Speaker 7: b a series of two really sweeping and hideous anti

897
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:16,320
Speaker 7: trans bills that have been passed in the last month

898
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 7: or so. And David wrote a really really good piece

899
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 7: for Transnus network about both these bills and also how

900
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 7: democrats in the state helped pass them.

901
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 9: So I want to.

902
00:50:28,320 --> 00:50:30,440
Speaker 7: Talk about that, and I guess the place to start is,

903
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:34,319
Speaker 7: can you talk about what these two bills HB aight

904
00:50:34,360 --> 00:50:38,080
Speaker 7: oh five and SB four four to two got started.

905
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 9: Sure, So of the two, HBAH five is the more

906
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 9: sweeping broadly, at least, they're both terrible anti trans bill.

907
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 9: It affects everything from changing your birth certificate to state

908
00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 9: health plans not covering trans healthcare to really ominously like

909
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 9: what jail or prison you get put into if you're

910
00:50:59,719 --> 00:51:04,120
Speaker 9: a train person and you're arrested. That one, it's kind

911
00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,360
Speaker 9: of a laundry list of far right anti trans ideas.

912
00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 9: The other SB four forty two is one of those

913
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 9: where it takes some digging. And here I'm really thankful

914
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:15,480
Speaker 9: that TNN's policy analyst, who I think you y'all have

915
00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 9: had on your ftim's Kareem Green into the show, was

916
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,360
Speaker 9: actually there to yes, was a huge help in reviewing

917
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:25,200
Speaker 9: this bill. I've been covering with North Carolina politics and

918
00:51:25,239 --> 00:51:28,919
Speaker 9: it's various horrors for a long time. But even still,

919
00:51:28,960 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 9: it's good to have like legislative expertise on that. And

920
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,320
Speaker 9: SA four forty two changes the definition of child abuse

921
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:43,320
Speaker 9: to not include transphobic child abuse. Essentially, it was written

922
00:51:43,320 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 9: against the very fictional specter of like, oh, if you

923
00:51:47,800 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 9: have questions about this trans stuff and you get your

924
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,040
Speaker 9: kids pronouns wrong. DSS could come like snatch them overnight,

925
00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:56,560
Speaker 9: which is not a thing that has ever happened, no,

926
00:51:57,000 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 9: including them, especially North Carolina, like yeah, yeah, so, but

927
00:52:01,719 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 9: what it does is just bluntly open the way, especially

928
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:09,439
Speaker 9: in the state foster care system, for just anti trans

929
00:52:09,520 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 9: bigotry across the board. You know, at this point it's like, okay, well,

930
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:17,000
Speaker 9: placement can't be NYE based on someone's religion or their

931
00:52:17,080 --> 00:52:21,719
Speaker 9: race and being a transfer, you know, it's like that's

932
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 9: that's being added those predicted identities. It's also essentially letting

933
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,640
Speaker 9: the ground work for just even more legal sanctioning of

934
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,920
Speaker 9: conversion therapy, which is of course torture and abuse. I

935
00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:35,560
Speaker 9: think cream summed up as that if you if you

936
00:52:35,560 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 9: don't have a trans can do abuse, foster care will

937
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 9: provide one for yeah, which is it's really bleakah we chuckle,

938
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 9: but it's we chuckle and like gallows humor because he's

939
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 9: that absurd. So SB four forty two was the one

940
00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 9: that kind of went through the whole legislative process first,

941
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:56,400
Speaker 9: and in some ways it had less of a party

942
00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 9: line treatment than HB eighth five eventually did so you know,

943
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:06,040
Speaker 9: say credit where do but NC Senate Democrats, of whom

944
00:53:06,040 --> 00:53:08,719
Speaker 9: there aren't terribly many, but there are some did universally

945
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:10,840
Speaker 9: vote against this bill. They were like, no, we're not

946
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 9: approving it. However, the GOP has a two thirds majority

947
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,319
Speaker 9: in there, so it's really not as necessary. They can

948
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:19,919
Speaker 9: put in sially over right a vito and there where

949
00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:22,399
Speaker 9: things really came down to as North Carona House, and

950
00:53:22,440 --> 00:53:26,080
Speaker 9: they are nine Democrats joined with the Republicans to pass this,

951
00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:29,960
Speaker 9: and then it got to the desk of Governor Josh Stein,

952
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:34,160
Speaker 9: who won in a landslide last year like North Fromine Democrats.

953
00:53:34,160 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 9: Despite how Jerry mayor of the state is, which we'll

954
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,080
Speaker 9: talk about more in a little bit, actually did pretty well.

955
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,320
Speaker 9: The GOP no longer had a supermajority in the House,

956
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:46,160
Speaker 9: and the Democratic candid for governor, former Attorney General Josh Stein,

957
00:53:46,239 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 9: won in a route. So essentially that was supposed to

958
00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:54,239
Speaker 9: prevent bills like this from becoming law, because okay, if

959
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:56,160
Speaker 9: the Dems held the line in the North Carolina House,

960
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:59,319
Speaker 9: the Republicans on the supermajority, then the governor vetos it,

961
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,080
Speaker 9: then they can varide of the video that didn't happen

962
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:07,360
Speaker 9: so not only did non Democrats side with Republicans Stein sign.

963
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:09,799
Speaker 7: The bill, yeah, which is hideous.

964
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,640
Speaker 9: Yeah, and it was it was bleakly insulting the way

965
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:17,200
Speaker 9: he did it too, because it was just like he

966
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:19,680
Speaker 9: didn't even issue a statement or oh, like, well we

967
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,520
Speaker 9: still believe in trans rights. This is a bureaucratic thing

968
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 9: or even bother to make an excuse. It was just

969
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,799
Speaker 9: tuck in a list of bills that he signed that

970
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:31,280
Speaker 9: day alongside like some other bureaucratic stuff involving like retirement

971
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:35,560
Speaker 9: communities and recognizing driver's licenses. So it's it's definitely kind

972
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 9: of insult to injury sort of situation. Interestingly, North Carolina's

973
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 9: gay inc organizations, you're kind of like the mainline nonprofits

974
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,400
Speaker 9: and in North find there's like a quality and see

975
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:48,560
Speaker 9: there's a campaignsion the quality, which is regional is based

976
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 9: in the state here in Aashville. They actually had been

977
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,319
Speaker 9: very strongly against this bill, despite some Democrats supporting it,

978
00:54:54,719 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 9: but they stopped short as will become a theme with

979
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,959
Speaker 9: condemning or attacking any of the Democrats who did, which

980
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 9: was a giant signal that this is not an issue

981
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 9: you're really going to fight Democrats on. So the governor

982
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 9: then thinks, well, there's no political capital be lost signing

983
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:14,080
Speaker 9: this thing. On the same day, he did veto HBATO five,

984
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 9: along with a bunch of other bills targeting, you know,

985
00:55:16,320 --> 00:55:20,080
Speaker 9: in quote marks dei measures, which are basically attempts to

986
00:55:20,360 --> 00:55:24,080
Speaker 9: smash out anything that's not far right and further research

987
00:55:24,120 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 9: shape the state, and he did veto those. The language

988
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 9: you use, though, was definitely what a lot of us

989
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:33,040
Speaker 9: become used to. It's the oh, this was divisive. No

990
00:55:33,200 --> 00:55:37,320
Speaker 9: trans people mentioned, no trans healthcare mention, no trans rights mentioned,

991
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,040
Speaker 9: just vaguely, well, this is divisive and it's a distraction.

992
00:55:40,760 --> 00:55:44,960
Speaker 9: So HBAO five does actually go back to the legislature,

993
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:48,279
Speaker 9: and one Democrat had voted for HBAO five, so there

994
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:50,640
Speaker 9: was a tension turning of Okay, is this guy gonna

995
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 9: still vote for a veto override Representative Dante Pittman, because

996
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,200
Speaker 9: it's a big deal, supposedly anyway, for a Democrat to

997
00:55:58,239 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 9: defy their own governor. It's one thing when it's like

998
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:02,400
Speaker 9: you're just okay, you know the bill's going to pass.

999
00:56:02,719 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 9: It's still horrible, but it's supposedly a harder bar to

1000
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:08,520
Speaker 9: reach or at least that's what there is. You know,

1001
00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:11,600
Speaker 9: ostensibly pro Queer Democrats are telling us for them to

1002
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:13,120
Speaker 9: go on the record and be like, no, I'm joining

1003
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,520
Speaker 9: with the other party to override your veto and like

1004
00:56:15,600 --> 00:56:18,880
Speaker 9: give you the middle finger, essentially. But what happened when

1005
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 9: he got to the House, he actually did did vote

1006
00:56:20,719 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 9: to hold with the veto. But another representative we've been

1007
00:56:23,719 --> 00:56:27,439
Speaker 9: out on a pretty dubious excused absence when HBOO five

1008
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 9: was originally their Democratic rep Nasif Maajid, voted in favor

1009
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 9: and that was enough to make it law. So the

1010
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,560
Speaker 9: one thing that among Queer and transcing with Carolina, who

1011
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:42,720
Speaker 9: liked a lot of other places, voted very heavily against

1012
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 9: the Republicans, you know, for the Democratic candidates and all.

1013
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:47,920
Speaker 9: That's one reason they did fairly well last year to

1014
00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,640
Speaker 9: stop exactly the sort of legislation becoming law. It just

1015
00:56:51,760 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 9: became law, and it did so thanks to members of

1016
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,040
Speaker 9: the Democratic Party and in one bill, the Democratic governor.

1017
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 7: Both of these bills are unbelievably draconian, like these are

1018
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:16,920
Speaker 7: things that even like two years ago, like banning state

1019
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:19,560
Speaker 7: funding for like all trans healthcare.

1020
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 9: Well for the state health plan, we should specify.

1021
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, sorry, it is like the state healthcare but

1022
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,680
Speaker 7: and this is at least my understanding of it, is

1023
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:27,720
Speaker 7: that this is a ban on.

1024
00:57:27,960 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 9: All ages, yes, for anyone on the state health care plan.

1025
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,800
Speaker 9: So if someone is a state employee or a teacher, yeah,

1026
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,480
Speaker 9: or like your kids are exactly. And it's kind of

1027
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,160
Speaker 9: Actually it's close to home for me because I grew

1028
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 9: up poor in North Carolina and one of the only

1029
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 9: reasons we had healthcare growing up was so my mom,

1030
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 9: as poorly paid as she was, was a public school teacher. So,

1031
00:57:49,200 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 9: you know, it's a trans kid in where I was.

1032
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 9: Now where we know, you know, it's easier for trans

1033
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,200
Speaker 9: kids to know who they are. It's not quite as

1034
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:59,440
Speaker 9: a race as it was back in the nineties. Yeah,

1035
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 9: get health care. A trans adult who's a teacher can't

1036
00:58:03,400 --> 00:58:04,880
Speaker 9: have their health care covered anymore.

1037
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 7: And that's a thing that like two years ago, Ron

1038
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 7: DeSantis wasn't calling for this. No, right, the Daily Wire

1039
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,280
Speaker 7: at that point, like two years ago is explicitly calling

1040
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 7: for trans extorminacious things, but they're not specifically proposing adults

1041
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:23,000
Speaker 7: can't use trans healthcare. That's not a thing like, yeah,

1042
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:25,439
Speaker 7: that was that was even on the table, and now

1043
00:58:25,560 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 7: you have like, you have a Democrat overwriting their own

1044
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,439
Speaker 7: governor's veto to get this through.

1045
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 9: Yes, a Democrat in a solidly blue district. Magine's district

1046
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,080
Speaker 9: is in the middle of Charlotte, which for folks who

1047
00:58:36,080 --> 00:58:37,640
Speaker 9: may I mean, it's going to sit like Charlotte's the

1048
00:58:37,680 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 9: largest city here, and it is not known for being

1049
00:58:40,880 --> 00:58:43,520
Speaker 9: like at least on voting law, as it doesn't go

1050
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:45,040
Speaker 9: for the GOP generally.

1051
00:58:45,600 --> 00:58:48,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, and then this is the same point that I

1052
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:52,160
Speaker 7: want to make about this bill, like redefining what child

1053
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,000
Speaker 7: abuse is like even by the standards of sort of

1054
00:58:56,040 --> 00:59:00,520
Speaker 7: like far right anti trans bills, those are really weird

1055
00:59:00,640 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 7: and radical.

1056
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,120
Speaker 9: Korean said it was one of the worst that she'd

1057
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:06,480
Speaker 9: seen in the country as far as like on the

1058
00:59:06,520 --> 00:59:07,360
Speaker 9: childcare front.

1059
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,680
Speaker 7: From my covering of this too, Yeah, this is one

1060
00:59:09,720 --> 00:59:12,640
Speaker 7: of the worst things I've ever seen. And the Democratic

1061
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,200
Speaker 7: Party passed.

1062
00:59:13,880 --> 00:59:16,320
Speaker 9: It passed with nine Democrats in favor, and the governor

1063
00:59:16,400 --> 00:59:16,760
Speaker 9: signed it.

1064
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,920
Speaker 7: Yeah, that's unbelievably horrifying. Yeah, And the fact that the

1065
00:59:21,000 --> 00:59:24,600
Speaker 7: queer wargs in the state were unwilling to condemn the

1066
00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:28,600
Speaker 7: Democrats who passed this is just horrifying.

1067
00:59:28,880 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 9: It is and actually goes one further than that because

1068
00:59:31,760 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 9: afterwards they didn't even bother to put out perfunctory Oh,

1069
00:59:34,520 --> 00:59:37,720
Speaker 9: we're disappointing Governor Stein. You know, we will continue to

1070
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,280
Speaker 9: try to fight this legislation in court or something like that.

1071
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 9: They did nothing. Yeah, they just they went silent. So

1072
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 9: and you know, their combinations of SB four forty two,

1073
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:50,480
Speaker 9: especially before this bill passed, they were all correct. It

1074
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,600
Speaker 9: is horrible. It does sanction child abuse. It is horrific

1075
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,440
Speaker 9: on every single front. It is a catastrophe. It is

1076
00:59:56,520 --> 01:00:00,000
Speaker 9: draconian all that. It didn't stop being so when Democrats

1077
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 9: started supporting it. Yeah, the kids hurt by this family's

1078
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 9: hurt by this aren't going to be any less hurt

1079
01:00:05,760 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 9: because a Democrat signed on to it.

1080
01:00:08,520 --> 01:00:10,560
Speaker 7: Yeah. And before we go to break the thing I

1081
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 7: want to sort of close this section with is that, like,

1082
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:16,680
Speaker 7: you know, I think it's a very very common thing

1083
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:19,440
Speaker 7: to focus on, like, Okay, why are you focusing on

1084
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:21,840
Speaker 7: the Democrats right now when the Republicans are doing all

1085
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,920
Speaker 7: of this stuff? And this is a case where very explicitly,

1086
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:29,000
Speaker 7: and this is the dynamic I think you've seen across

1087
01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:32,240
Speaker 7: the board with for example, like Chuck Schumer like helping

1088
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:36,160
Speaker 7: to get their Republican budget through right. Yes, the stuff

1089
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:39,680
Speaker 7: the Republicans are doing, a lot of it can't be

1090
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:43,560
Speaker 7: implemented without the support of the Democrats. And the Democrats

1091
01:00:43,600 --> 01:00:47,400
Speaker 7: have been willing to support the fascist governments implementing this stuff,

1092
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:53,000
Speaker 7: and that makes them a collaborationist party, yes, in a

1093
01:00:53,040 --> 01:00:57,000
Speaker 7: lot of extremely important cases. And when that happens. In

1094
01:00:57,040 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 7: North Carolina is one of the places at the forefront.

1095
01:00:59,760 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 7: And it has been at the forefront for like a decade,

1096
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,880
Speaker 7: for nearly a decade. Yeah, for nearly a decade. It's

1097
01:01:05,960 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 7: like eight years, seven seven, eight years nine nine. As

1098
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,320
Speaker 7: of this year, it's nine years since HB two. Good

1099
01:01:12,360 --> 01:01:14,760
Speaker 7: lore along in the spring of twenty sixteen, sixteen, Yeah,

1100
01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 7: oh that is yeah. This is do not do not

1101
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,240
Speaker 7: go to sleep at five in the morning and then

1102
01:01:20,240 --> 01:01:21,920
Speaker 7: try to do math live on the area. It will

1103
01:01:21,960 --> 01:01:26,720
Speaker 7: come for you too, really truly. It was China subtract

1104
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:31,920
Speaker 7: sixteenth of twenty Okay, this is this, this, this, this

1105
01:01:31,960 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 7: is this is your one moment of levity and a

1106
01:01:33,640 --> 01:01:36,080
Speaker 7: bunch of extremely bleak shit. Isn'ta be a trying and

1107
01:01:36,120 --> 01:01:38,040
Speaker 7: failing to do math on air? Look, I can drive

1108
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,960
Speaker 7: that's I'm thinking to it. But what we were seeing

1109
01:01:43,000 --> 01:01:46,200
Speaker 7: here is the way in which like resistance to the

1110
01:01:46,200 --> 01:01:48,720
Speaker 7: GUOPN this is a place like North Carolina is a

1111
01:01:48,760 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 7: state where in the midst of a just unbelievable national

1112
01:01:53,000 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 7: right wing turn right queer people turned out to stop this. Yeah,

1113
01:01:59,560 --> 01:02:04,360
Speaker 7: and their reward for their resistance was the people that

1114
01:02:04,400 --> 01:02:07,760
Speaker 7: they had put in charge of defending them, and in

1115
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:10,800
Speaker 7: as staggering of an example of the banality of evil

1116
01:02:10,840 --> 01:02:14,520
Speaker 7: as I've ever seen, just signed this horrific piece of

1117
01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:16,960
Speaker 7: anti trans legislation that couldn't have been passed without them

1118
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:21,640
Speaker 7: into effect in the same thing as like fucking as

1119
01:02:21,680 --> 01:02:23,160
Speaker 7: a bunch of regulatory bullshit.

1120
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:25,760
Speaker 9: Yeah, and then Gaying did nothing.

1121
01:02:25,920 --> 01:02:26,120
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1122
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 9: The groups they're supposed to lobby at the football this

1123
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:31,280
Speaker 9: is the point of their existence, did nothing.

1124
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:31,800
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1125
01:02:32,120 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 9: At that point, they just they let they let it go,

1126
01:02:34,560 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 9: you know, on the next fundraising cycle, onto the next

1127
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 9: AI meme to on your page to boost you know,

1128
01:02:40,000 --> 01:02:41,720
Speaker 9: content generation or whatever.

1129
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:55,520
Speaker 15: And here we are, and we are back.

1130
01:02:55,880 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 7: Now for the brevity of this show, I am not

1131
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:01,680
Speaker 7: going to go into my giant rants about how this

1132
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:04,200
Speaker 7: is what happened with mid Rand and the French socialists

1133
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:08,120
Speaker 7: and how Midrand and the Socialist Party institute of neoliberalisab

1134
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:12,080
Speaker 7: in France. But Comma, we are instead of doing that

1135
01:03:12,320 --> 01:03:15,080
Speaker 7: or me going on another rant about the abromation of

1136
01:03:15,120 --> 01:03:18,680
Speaker 7: social movements by the NIS of Bolivia, or another rants

1137
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:23,520
Speaker 7: about the seventeen different iterations of this that we've seen

1138
01:03:23,640 --> 01:03:27,800
Speaker 7: over the year. See my episodes on Lula, see many many, many,

1139
01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,760
Speaker 7: many many things I've done. We're gonna go back and

1140
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 7: talk about this in the context of North Carolina because

1141
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:35,680
Speaker 7: I think there's a really very a very important thread

1142
01:03:36,280 --> 01:03:39,560
Speaker 7: that David you have been pulling on in this piece

1143
01:03:39,680 --> 01:03:45,160
Speaker 7: and in general that is really not well understood anywhere.

1144
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:49,200
Speaker 7: That is about the structure and function of the Democratic

1145
01:03:49,200 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 7: Party in the South and the way that North Carolina

1146
01:03:51,720 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 7: has functioned is it's sort of like the moderate human

1147
01:03:55,640 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 7: face of like the Greensboro massacre. Oh my, yeah, And

1148
01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:03,800
Speaker 7: this is one of those where to start thing.

1149
01:04:03,840 --> 01:04:06,160
Speaker 9: There's a quote that I have in the piece by

1150
01:04:06,320 --> 01:04:09,360
Speaker 9: civil rights historian Timothy Tyson that, since I read it,

1151
01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:12,560
Speaker 9: I think over a decade ago, really just kind of

1152
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,040
Speaker 9: hit me like a hammer and is kind of simple

1153
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:17,840
Speaker 9: at the experience I've seen as a you know, impoverished

1154
01:04:17,840 --> 01:04:21,960
Speaker 9: trans woman living in North Carolina and covering local state

1155
01:04:22,000 --> 01:04:24,160
Speaker 9: government and how federal government works on the ground here too,

1156
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:27,880
Speaker 9: like beneath the green ivy of civility but a stone

1157
01:04:27,920 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 9: wall of coercion. Yeah, and that is one of the

1158
01:04:32,240 --> 01:04:35,280
Speaker 9: better summaries, and it applies other circumstances too, but it

1159
01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:38,640
Speaker 9: is it just perfectly sums up kind of the historical

1160
01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 9: real the North kind of Democratic party. And when Tyson

1161
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,680
Speaker 9: was doing that, he was tracing this whole history from

1162
01:04:43,720 --> 01:04:47,600
Speaker 9: the eighteen ninety eight Wilmington Cudaeta and massacre, which is

1163
01:04:48,000 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 9: one of the most decisive events in American history. And

1164
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:52,160
Speaker 9: I'd even say in like the history of the rise

1165
01:04:52,160 --> 01:04:56,080
Speaker 9: of fascism too, to the current day. He was writing

1166
01:04:56,080 --> 01:04:59,560
Speaker 9: the late nineties, and it is part of a project

1167
01:04:59,560 --> 01:05:01,959
Speaker 9: of history. And one of the terms they were using

1168
01:05:02,080 --> 01:05:06,320
Speaker 9: was has this progressive mystique while you were having governors

1169
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:08,360
Speaker 9: on their southern states during the Civil Rights era, where

1170
01:05:08,360 --> 01:05:12,120
Speaker 9: you know, giving angry speeches from courthouses and things like that,

1171
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 9: and North Carolina was trying to be the moderate example

1172
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,360
Speaker 9: of the South. Oh, you know, we put money into

1173
01:05:19,480 --> 01:05:21,560
Speaker 9: look at all these schools and roads were building this

1174
01:05:21,720 --> 01:05:25,080
Speaker 9: college system. We're building. We just built Research Triangle Park.

1175
01:05:25,160 --> 01:05:27,720
Speaker 9: You know, we're attracting. You know, it's the too busy

1176
01:05:27,760 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 9: to hate kind of myth. And on that note, they

1177
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:35,400
Speaker 9: generally were more careful about repression, but it still happened.

1178
01:05:35,760 --> 01:05:38,080
Speaker 9: You know, North caronin doesn't make the headlines and something

1179
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:41,240
Speaker 9: of the like Selma did, for example, But there was

1180
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,800
Speaker 9: a history of riots and a brutal attempts of repression

1181
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:48,480
Speaker 9: from the forties all the way to the seventies in

1182
01:05:48,520 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 9: North Carolina, and they happened like in almost every city,

1183
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 9: major city there is here, you know, and some that

1184
01:05:53,960 --> 01:05:54,760
Speaker 9: weren't so major.

1185
01:05:55,200 --> 01:05:56,760
Speaker 7: That's the thing that we've talked about a little bit

1186
01:05:56,800 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 7: on the show with the Holy Week uprising and the

1187
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,280
Speaker 7: sort of the whole wave of riots kind of culminating

1188
01:06:03,320 --> 01:06:05,800
Speaker 7: in the assassination of Martin Luther King. But like, yeah,

1189
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,680
Speaker 7: like statistically, most of the riots that happened in that

1190
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,919
Speaker 7: entire period happened in these small and midsized cities. Yeah,

1191
01:06:12,960 --> 01:06:14,840
Speaker 7: that have just like the historical memory of which has

1192
01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,600
Speaker 7: been completely fucking buried. Yeah, and with Carolina, as you saying,

1193
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:20,480
Speaker 7: like it's one of the critical sights of this. Yeah,

1194
01:06:20,640 --> 01:06:23,600
Speaker 7: Durham was rioting in the forties. Yeah, like that, that's

1195
01:06:23,640 --> 01:06:24,760
Speaker 7: how far back it goes.

1196
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:27,840
Speaker 9: And I think a lot of time people think, oh, well,

1197
01:06:27,880 --> 01:06:29,680
Speaker 9: not much happened in this era, and I think it's

1198
01:06:29,680 --> 01:06:32,040
Speaker 9: just a lack of knowledge of history, especially radical history.

1199
01:06:32,400 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 9: Did it not happen or was it suppressed and then erased?

1200
01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, and that.

1201
01:06:36,640 --> 01:06:38,320
Speaker 9: Happened a lot of this, So you had, you know,

1202
01:06:38,520 --> 01:06:41,280
Speaker 9: and figures like Governor Terry Samer at the time, who

1203
01:06:41,320 --> 01:06:44,400
Speaker 9: was you know, famous North Carolina Democrat, And yeah, if

1204
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 9: the klan was like openly marching to murder people, he

1205
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:50,080
Speaker 9: might say like, Okay, look a massacre's bad news. We

1206
01:06:50,160 --> 01:06:52,080
Speaker 9: are going to like put the state troopers out to

1207
01:06:52,480 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 9: them from doing that. But a lot of the rights

1208
01:06:55,000 --> 01:06:57,600
Speaker 9: activist end up dead, yeah, you know, or there's still

1209
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,960
Speaker 9: like violent crackdowns, you know, the Greensboro if he was

1210
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 9: a side at both of some really well organized like

1211
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,600
Speaker 9: civil rights efforts and sit ins and more radical action too,

1212
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 9: but also have a lot of repression. You know, by

1213
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:13,440
Speaker 9: nineteen seventy nine, when the States boosters are portraying, you know,

1214
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:16,520
Speaker 9: all that upheaval is a thing of the past. This

1215
01:07:16,720 --> 01:07:20,680
Speaker 9: anti racist marched or anti clan Mark, specifically organized by

1216
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:25,320
Speaker 9: this communist group in Greensboro, was massacred. The clan and

1217
01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,360
Speaker 9: Neo Nazis came in. They just opened fire on people.

1218
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:33,200
Speaker 9: Largely they were acquitted later and in ensuing years, a

1219
01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:36,240
Speaker 9: lot of investigation has been done into this and various

1220
01:07:36,280 --> 01:07:38,920
Speaker 9: levels of local and state and aft the fact federal

1221
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:42,200
Speaker 9: law enforcement were very complicit and things ranging from just

1222
01:07:42,240 --> 01:07:44,400
Speaker 9: kind of trying to sweep it under the rug to

1223
01:07:44,720 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 9: outright especially the local level like cooperating with the clan.

1224
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,520
Speaker 9: A lot of them were either aware this is going

1225
01:07:50,560 --> 01:07:52,880
Speaker 9: on and did nothing to stop it, or even actively

1226
01:07:52,920 --> 01:07:56,919
Speaker 9: fed the clan information. There's a book recently called Morningside

1227
01:07:56,920 --> 01:07:58,680
Speaker 9: that goes into a lot of a lot of this

1228
01:07:58,760 --> 01:08:01,760
Speaker 9: detail that courage folks take a look at. But like,

1229
01:08:02,160 --> 01:08:04,600
Speaker 9: that's the reality of North Carolina, and that's the reality

1230
01:08:04,640 --> 01:08:08,439
Speaker 9: beneath the progressive mystique. And one of the historians quote

1231
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,720
Speaker 9: the piece mentioned that this is an exquisite instrument of

1232
01:08:11,760 --> 01:08:16,120
Speaker 9: social control because you've kind of already framed the discussion as, oh,

1233
01:08:16,160 --> 01:08:19,200
Speaker 9: it's just this genteel civil thing. We'll hear you out.

1234
01:08:19,320 --> 01:08:21,960
Speaker 9: Just be a little more patient. But if stuff ever

1235
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:25,960
Speaker 9: really escalates, there is the option of just flat out

1236
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:31,000
Speaker 9: smears violence and massacre, and knowing the history of North Carolina,

1237
01:08:31,080 --> 01:08:33,559
Speaker 9: you know a lot of this was directed at black

1238
01:08:33,600 --> 01:08:37,200
Speaker 9: North Carolinians, but also it was used to crush labor stuff.

1239
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:39,000
Speaker 9: A lot of the people killed in the Greensboro massacre

1240
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 9: were also organizing in the textile mills. And North Carolina

1241
01:08:42,479 --> 01:08:45,719
Speaker 9: under the Democrats under their moderate period, had and continues

1242
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 9: to have some of the most draconian anti labor laws

1243
01:08:49,160 --> 01:08:52,720
Speaker 9: in the country, which takes some work. So that's kind

1244
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 9: of the reality in North Carolina and of the Democratic

1245
01:08:55,080 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 9: Party here, and they lean on that mystique heavily, and honestly,

1246
01:08:59,040 --> 01:09:00,719
Speaker 9: I think a lot of it is they evoke because

1247
01:09:00,720 --> 01:09:03,360
Speaker 9: you know, we're we're the defenders of the sane, sensible

1248
01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:07,559
Speaker 9: civil status quo. Even sat Mustein's statements about Hbao five

1249
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,759
Speaker 9: when he did veto it, it's like, well, this is divisive,

1250
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:12,519
Speaker 9: it's making too many ways. We need to get back

1251
01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:14,880
Speaker 9: to business, which they mean not as the business garnment.

1252
01:09:14,920 --> 01:09:19,240
Speaker 9: They literally mean business. We're marketing the state and making

1253
01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 9: more money, and everything means making more money for the gentry.

1254
01:09:22,600 --> 01:09:25,360
Speaker 9: So that's kind of the reality North Carolina beneath this

1255
01:09:26,080 --> 01:09:29,240
Speaker 9: kind of you know how, how things supposedly are better

1256
01:09:29,280 --> 01:09:31,840
Speaker 9: and more progressive here in the end of the day,

1257
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 9: you can still get massacred.

1258
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:36,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I think on a sort of structural level, right,

1259
01:09:36,760 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 7: I think there's going to be people who are being like, well, Okay,

1260
01:09:38,880 --> 01:09:40,080
Speaker 7: why the fuck do I give? Do I give a

1261
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,559
Speaker 7: shit about North Carolina? And one And this is something

1262
01:09:42,560 --> 01:09:43,960
Speaker 7: that you point out in the piece, and something that's

1263
01:09:44,360 --> 01:09:48,439
Speaker 7: really obvious if you spend literally any time in the South.

1264
01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:51,040
Speaker 7: Is that what I think? It's thirty six percent of

1265
01:09:51,080 --> 01:09:54,360
Speaker 7: the South is like, what's what's the actual number? I

1266
01:09:54,360 --> 01:09:55,559
Speaker 7: should have looked this up before.

1267
01:09:56,200 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 9: So of the national population of queer and trans people,

1268
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 9: thirty six percent live in the South, which is far

1269
01:10:03,160 --> 01:10:05,679
Speaker 9: more than any other region, like by a wide march,

1270
01:10:06,560 --> 01:10:10,280
Speaker 9: I think, under the same twenty twenty three calculation. And

1271
01:10:10,439 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 9: there was another reason story they came out spifickly about

1272
01:10:12,360 --> 01:10:15,559
Speaker 9: trans people. All these have faults. It is a general

1273
01:10:15,600 --> 01:10:18,760
Speaker 9: rule that trans people, especially in areas where they are

1274
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:23,479
Speaker 9: more legally and violently marginalized, are wildly undercounted. But it

1275
01:10:23,640 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 9: maps to about the same numbers I think of trans

1276
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,519
Speaker 9: people in the country. The ESME population is about thirty

1277
01:10:28,520 --> 01:10:31,320
Speaker 9: three to thirty six percent live in the South, and

1278
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:33,800
Speaker 9: in the twenty twenty three one the next highest amount

1279
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:35,640
Speaker 9: live in the Midwest, which is kind of different from

1280
01:10:35,680 --> 01:10:38,200
Speaker 9: how you see things portrayed that you know, we're just this, ye,

1281
01:10:38,320 --> 01:10:42,200
Speaker 9: this coastal you know, elite bohemians on a few coastal cities.

1282
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:44,040
Speaker 9: As a matter of fact, there are a lot of

1283
01:10:44,080 --> 01:10:47,280
Speaker 9: trains people in the South and the Midwest. Yeah, we've

1284
01:10:47,280 --> 01:10:50,160
Speaker 9: been here for ages, We're still here. Yeah, Yeah, it's

1285
01:10:50,200 --> 01:10:53,280
Speaker 9: it's it's it's North Carolina, it's Texas, it's fucking New Orleans,

1286
01:10:53,360 --> 01:10:55,240
Speaker 9: West Virginia, Florida, you know.

1287
01:10:55,800 --> 01:10:58,559
Speaker 7: Yeah, and again like in terms of like, okay, so

1288
01:10:58,600 --> 01:11:01,840
Speaker 7: I'm not in those places, like A, but we all

1289
01:11:01,880 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 7: have a responsibility to all queer people, like as core

1290
01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:06,960
Speaker 7: people right like we have we have, we have a

1291
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,600
Speaker 7: responsibility to each other, and we should fucking fight for

1292
01:11:09,640 --> 01:11:13,840
Speaker 7: each other. And b you can look at what happened

1293
01:11:13,840 --> 01:11:16,479
Speaker 7: in North Carolina, and it was deliberately This is the

1294
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:21,080
Speaker 7: place where the right wing's anti trans strategy was born,

1295
01:11:21,160 --> 01:11:23,880
Speaker 7: and it was exported from the success that they had

1296
01:11:23,880 --> 01:11:28,559
Speaker 7: in North Carolina to the entire rest of the fucking country, Yes, right,

1297
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:30,479
Speaker 7: with the bathroom bills. And this is something we're going

1298
01:11:30,520 --> 01:11:33,120
Speaker 7: to get into a second with the way the Democratic

1299
01:11:33,120 --> 01:11:37,400
Speaker 7: Party like didn't react to those bathroom bills. The last

1300
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:38,960
Speaker 7: point that I want to make here is that this

1301
01:11:39,320 --> 01:11:43,320
Speaker 7: strategy of control is also very similar to the one

1302
01:11:43,360 --> 01:11:47,800
Speaker 7: that the Democrats use in places like San Francisco, where

1303
01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:50,200
Speaker 7: you have this sort of progressive veneer over. You know

1304
01:11:50,280 --> 01:11:52,599
Speaker 7: that the consolation well, I guess, I guess the constellation

1305
01:11:52,640 --> 01:11:57,639
Speaker 7: of class forces is getting more similar as as big

1306
01:11:57,720 --> 01:12:01,559
Speaker 7: tech moves into like that part of the South. But

1307
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:04,160
Speaker 7: you know, it's this constellation of like, oh, hey, we

1308
01:12:04,240 --> 01:12:08,160
Speaker 7: are the queer rights Party, but our actual interests are

1309
01:12:08,200 --> 01:12:13,280
Speaker 7: this combination of housing developers' landlords and tech giants, and

1310
01:12:13,400 --> 01:12:15,400
Speaker 7: so as a method of social control, we're going to

1311
01:12:15,439 --> 01:12:18,880
Speaker 7: do this like, hey, we're extremely pro trends stuff, and

1312
01:12:18,920 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 7: then we're going to throw a whole bunch of fucking

1313
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:25,360
Speaker 7: trends homeless people into concentration camps. Yeah, and that's the

1314
01:12:25,400 --> 01:12:27,600
Speaker 7: thing that like, you know, we're going to I'm going

1315
01:12:27,680 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 7: to talk more about this on the show another time.

1316
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 7: With the ways that Trump's anti homeless executive orders, some

1317
01:12:37,760 --> 01:12:40,360
Speaker 7: of the models for it are the way that sweeps

1318
01:12:40,360 --> 01:12:43,000
Speaker 7: have been working in places like Oakland's. We've talked about

1319
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 7: this on the show before, but yeah, this mechanism of

1320
01:12:47,560 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 7: social control is one that's really really widespread. And the

1321
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:55,240
Speaker 7: South operates as a laboratory for that too, in the

1322
01:12:55,240 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 7: same way that it operates as the laboratory for the right.

1323
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:00,519
Speaker 9: Yeah, and I think that's really important, because this is

1324
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:02,920
Speaker 9: the point I can't I can't hone this point enough

1325
01:13:02,960 --> 01:13:05,720
Speaker 9: and make it sharp enough. Frankly, folks need to take

1326
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,240
Speaker 9: it really seriously. Whether you cut the South or not.

1327
01:13:08,439 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 2: Fascist do.

1328
01:13:09,400 --> 01:13:12,519
Speaker 9: The var right does, and they have for a long

1329
01:13:12,800 --> 01:13:15,920
Speaker 9: long time view did not as a place to ignore,

1330
01:13:16,000 --> 01:13:18,160
Speaker 9: but as a place to consolidate power and try out

1331
01:13:18,160 --> 01:13:21,360
Speaker 9: their tactics. Too often, the left, even the queer left,

1332
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:24,479
Speaker 9: has not. We have all suffered for it. Yeah, and

1333
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:26,719
Speaker 9: this is this is the whole thing for the historical

1334
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 9: left right. Like one of the things that broke the

1335
01:13:28,800 --> 01:13:31,320
Speaker 9: American labor movement was the defeat of the CIO in

1336
01:13:31,360 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 9: the South.

1337
01:13:31,720 --> 01:13:33,760
Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean all the way back to I mean

1338
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:36,520
Speaker 7: events you were literally talking about, like the defeat of reconstruction.

1339
01:13:36,840 --> 01:13:40,000
Speaker 7: But this is, this is why this country is like this,

1340
01:13:40,160 --> 01:13:42,479
Speaker 7: And if you don't want the country to be like this,

1341
01:13:42,880 --> 01:13:46,720
Speaker 7: you have to fucking fight in the South. Yes, that's

1342
01:13:46,760 --> 01:13:50,000
Speaker 7: all we've got time for for today, but tomorrow we

1343
01:13:50,040 --> 01:13:52,559
Speaker 7: will be back talk about the long and sordid history

1344
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,960
Speaker 7: of the Democratic Party's progressive venear in North Carolina and

1345
01:13:57,000 --> 01:14:00,679
Speaker 7: what truly lies beneath it, and we will look how

1346
01:14:00,760 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 7: the original response to the twenty sixteen bathroom bills set

1347
01:14:05,360 --> 01:14:10,160
Speaker 7: the stage for both Democratic Party in North Carolina's passing

1348
01:14:10,160 --> 01:14:12,800
Speaker 7: of anti trans laws today and the future of the

1349
01:14:12,840 --> 01:14:31,400
Speaker 7: rest of the country. Welcome Dick, It Appened Here a

1350
01:14:31,479 --> 01:14:35,679
Speaker 7: podcast about things falling apart and also sometimes about how

1351
01:14:36,240 --> 01:14:38,240
Speaker 7: claiming that you were going to put things back together

1352
01:14:38,320 --> 01:14:42,040
Speaker 7: and then not doing it makes things fall apart even worse.

1353
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 7: I am your host, Mia Wong, and today we're going

1354
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,680
Speaker 7: to be continuing with part two of my interview with

1355
01:14:47,800 --> 01:14:50,760
Speaker 7: David Forbes, an editor and journalist for the Trans News

1356
01:14:50,760 --> 01:14:54,120
Speaker 7: Network in the Asheville Blade, about the history of the

1357
01:14:54,160 --> 01:14:58,920
Speaker 7: North Carolina Democratic Parties progressive veneer over their agreement with

1358
01:14:58,960 --> 01:15:05,760
Speaker 7: Republican policy, and importantly, how the Democratic Party's original response

1359
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 7: to the anti trans bathroom bills from twenty sixteen paved

1360
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:14,320
Speaker 7: the way for where we are today. So enjoy, let's

1361
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:18,519
Speaker 7: talk about the original bathroom bills, because I think there's

1362
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,679
Speaker 7: some knowledge well okay, I don't know. It's been almost

1363
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:23,919
Speaker 7: a decade. Yeah, so I think people may have forgotten

1364
01:15:23,960 --> 01:15:26,719
Speaker 7: how this all start. Is let's talk about the first

1365
01:15:26,800 --> 01:15:29,880
Speaker 7: bathroom bills, what happened, and then how the Democrats kind

1366
01:15:29,920 --> 01:15:32,360
Speaker 7: of ensured that they would stay in place.

1367
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:36,439
Speaker 9: Sure, so there is the big one everyone knows about

1368
01:15:36,520 --> 01:15:39,280
Speaker 9: is HB two because it became kind of internationally famous

1369
01:15:39,320 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 9: as the North Carolina bathroom Bill, and even I think

1370
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,400
Speaker 9: for folks who memories may have faded, it has come

1371
01:15:44,479 --> 01:15:47,439
Speaker 9: up recently as kind of a benchmark, and often a

1372
01:15:47,479 --> 01:15:50,439
Speaker 9: misinterpreted one. Is we're about to get into for how

1373
01:15:50,479 --> 01:15:54,400
Speaker 9: far things have shifted, because on paper, it looks like

1374
01:15:54,800 --> 01:15:58,599
Speaker 9: this really horribly backfired, and in some ways it did. Initially,

1375
01:15:59,160 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 9: HB two was a bill that was kind of slapped

1376
01:16:03,280 --> 01:16:08,599
Speaker 9: in last minute. It clearly drew from the larger anti

1377
01:16:08,720 --> 01:16:12,280
Speaker 9: trans far right policy circles which North Caroin Republicans are

1378
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,720
Speaker 9: highly connected to. Those kind of Dems often kind of

1379
01:16:15,800 --> 01:16:18,600
Speaker 9: view themselves their own little like institution, like where the

1380
01:16:18,640 --> 01:16:20,960
Speaker 9: Democratic moderate it's like North North carnd Democrats have always

1381
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 9: been at their best. People of that tuation we talked

1382
01:16:23,400 --> 01:16:27,559
Speaker 9: about the Republicans here were like, okay, we're now in power,

1383
01:16:27,680 --> 01:16:30,800
Speaker 9: which they were starting in twenty eleven. Let's try out

1384
01:16:30,800 --> 01:16:32,720
Speaker 9: this stuff from ALEC. Let's try out this stuff from

1385
01:16:32,760 --> 01:16:34,880
Speaker 9: some obscure right wing think tank. And that meant they

1386
01:16:34,880 --> 01:16:39,679
Speaker 9: were plugged in when in the wake of Obergefell, and

1387
01:16:39,960 --> 01:16:42,920
Speaker 9: also in North Carolina as well, the year before you'd

1388
01:16:42,920 --> 01:16:45,639
Speaker 9: had equal marriage for that whole swath of the South

1389
01:16:45,840 --> 01:16:49,400
Speaker 9: was kind of imposed by a federal court order or

1390
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:52,120
Speaker 9: recognized by federal court order. So they were like, Okay,

1391
01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:54,439
Speaker 9: this isn't working. There is not just more d there

1392
01:16:54,520 --> 01:16:57,800
Speaker 9: is more de facto on the ground popular acceptance of

1393
01:16:57,880 --> 01:17:02,080
Speaker 9: equal marriage. Now that's not the wedge was previously. So

1394
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:04,320
Speaker 9: what do we shift to wile we shift to trans people,

1395
01:17:04,960 --> 01:17:08,040
Speaker 9: And so North Caron legislators very eager to try out

1396
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:11,280
Speaker 9: far right policies. The North Caron GOP is far right

1397
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:14,360
Speaker 9: even by Southern standards, which is interesting because the state's

1398
01:17:14,640 --> 01:17:17,439
Speaker 9: very split as far as like votes and demographics go.

1399
01:17:18,280 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 9: So twenty sixteens rolled around four years earlier, the Dems

1400
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:25,000
Speaker 9: had done the usual thing they'd run a super conservative,

1401
01:17:25,040 --> 01:17:29,559
Speaker 9: super pro business, white guy Democrat. He got trounced by

1402
01:17:29,840 --> 01:17:32,160
Speaker 9: Pat McCrory, who was the former mayor of Charlotte, and

1403
01:17:32,240 --> 01:17:34,840
Speaker 9: Rain is like, Oh, I'm a moderate, sensible Republican. I'm

1404
01:17:34,880 --> 01:17:37,479
Speaker 9: going to bounce out the legislature a little bit. But

1405
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:40,880
Speaker 9: unlike too many outside the region and the state who

1406
01:17:40,920 --> 01:17:42,800
Speaker 9: kind of wrote oka in North Carolina just becoming this

1407
01:17:42,920 --> 01:17:45,720
Speaker 9: red state now like other Southern states have, they knew

1408
01:17:45,720 --> 01:17:50,160
Speaker 9: their hole was actually really precarious. Now they jerrymandered extensively,

1409
01:17:50,720 --> 01:17:54,160
Speaker 9: so extensively that like North Carolina. The same year as

1410
01:17:54,240 --> 01:17:58,000
Speaker 9: HP two pass stopped being recognized as a democracy by

1411
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:00,559
Speaker 9: the the policiers a study a matter of fact, the

1412
01:18:00,600 --> 01:18:04,280
Speaker 9: district Carolina they did a whole commentary later that year

1413
01:18:04,320 --> 01:18:07,320
Speaker 9: that these were the most rigged districts, the most area

1414
01:18:07,400 --> 01:18:09,839
Speaker 9: districts they'd seen, not just in the US but anywhere

1415
01:18:09,840 --> 01:18:12,840
Speaker 9: in the world. So that is where we live, That's

1416
01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:16,880
Speaker 9: where we lived for some time. But the governor's like

1417
01:18:16,960 --> 01:18:19,880
Speaker 9: the statewide, so he's in a more precarious position, and

1418
01:18:20,720 --> 01:18:23,960
Speaker 9: they wanted a wedge issue in their view to drive

1419
01:18:23,960 --> 01:18:26,679
Speaker 9: out conservative votes. They also hate trans people and want

1420
01:18:26,680 --> 01:18:31,240
Speaker 9: to hurt us. So this HB two said that trans

1421
01:18:31,280 --> 01:18:35,280
Speaker 9: people can't go into bathrooms unless they use the one

1422
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:38,960
Speaker 9: matching their birth certificate in any state building in North Carolina.

1423
01:18:38,960 --> 01:18:42,160
Speaker 9: And this technically also includes like local government buildings, includes

1424
01:18:42,240 --> 01:18:47,120
Speaker 9: like social services, it includes like any educational setting pretty much.

1425
01:18:47,360 --> 01:18:49,840
Speaker 9: So this was clearly a slab dash affair. They didn't

1426
01:18:49,840 --> 01:18:52,600
Speaker 9: even have like an enforcement mechanism in there. But I

1427
01:18:52,680 --> 01:18:54,759
Speaker 9: did a few other things too, I think people forget about,

1428
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:59,120
Speaker 9: which is it also stripped the ability of localities to

1429
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,040
Speaker 9: make their own minimal wage rules, So it was also

1430
01:19:02,080 --> 01:19:05,200
Speaker 9: an attack on labor because those always go together and

1431
01:19:05,760 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 9: not unrelated. Trans and quick people are only working class demographics,

1432
01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:12,960
Speaker 9: which I don't think gets set enough, and also essentially users.

1433
01:19:13,000 --> 01:19:16,920
Speaker 9: On reaction to Charlotte adding gender identity to its existing

1434
01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:21,360
Speaker 9: non discrimination ordinance, there's was a local one, but in reality,

1435
01:19:21,520 --> 01:19:23,360
Speaker 9: you know, if Chartte had never done that, they would

1436
01:19:23,400 --> 01:19:26,519
Speaker 9: have done a bill like this pretty shortly. Anyway, it

1437
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:29,759
Speaker 9: was kind of just the excuse. And they also struck

1438
01:19:29,840 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 9: down all non discrimination ordinances across the state, like local

1439
01:19:33,439 --> 01:19:37,559
Speaker 9: non discrimination ordinances. So this is a broad attack with

1440
01:19:37,720 --> 01:19:40,599
Speaker 9: trans people as kind of the point of the spear

1441
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 9: as it were, like the ones most in the front lines.

1442
01:19:43,680 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 9: It's a familiar pattern. You go after trans rights, you're

1443
01:19:46,479 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 9: also going after broad rights for any marginalized group because

1444
01:19:50,160 --> 01:19:52,320
Speaker 9: non disformation stuff is being struck down left and right.

1445
01:19:52,760 --> 01:19:56,280
Speaker 9: And also you're attacking labor yep. So you know, it

1446
01:19:56,360 --> 01:19:58,040
Speaker 9: really kind of set the model for things to come.

1447
01:19:58,560 --> 01:20:03,439
Speaker 9: HB two sparks a massive international backlash. I think the

1448
01:20:03,439 --> 01:20:06,679
Speaker 9: indestment was four hundred million. The state lost four hundred

1449
01:20:06,720 --> 01:20:09,680
Speaker 9: million as companies pulled out, events pulled out. There was

1450
01:20:09,720 --> 01:20:13,839
Speaker 9: a boycott, a fairly effective one, honestly, that was started

1451
01:20:14,240 --> 01:20:17,800
Speaker 9: as grassroots though gay inc groups and even like just

1452
01:20:18,240 --> 01:20:21,519
Speaker 9: random nonprofits and some Democratic Party officials later joined in

1453
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:25,040
Speaker 9: on it. So the money's being hemorrhage left and right.

1454
01:20:25,120 --> 01:20:28,639
Speaker 9: McCrory's being turned into a national laughing stock, if anything,

1455
01:20:28,760 --> 01:20:31,719
Speaker 9: is proving a rallying point for the other side. Because

1456
01:20:31,760 --> 01:20:35,599
Speaker 9: twenty sixteen rolls around and in a year where Trump

1457
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:38,639
Speaker 9: takes North Carolina and generally the Republicans do fairly well

1458
01:20:38,680 --> 01:20:41,240
Speaker 9: throughout the South, even in a swing states like NC,

1459
01:20:41,960 --> 01:20:45,679
Speaker 9: McCrory loses. He loses to the Attorney General Roy Cooper

1460
01:20:45,720 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 9: as a Democrat. Now, I would never say his pro

1461
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:50,400
Speaker 9: trains are about again some major betrayals he did. He

1462
01:20:50,479 --> 01:20:53,360
Speaker 9: was more willing to say, at least perfunctory statements about

1463
01:20:53,400 --> 01:20:57,240
Speaker 9: trains rights than any northbound Democratic politician as a statewide

1464
01:20:57,320 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 9: level before and honestly since, including the current governor. And yeah,

1465
01:21:01,880 --> 01:21:15,439
Speaker 9: he proceeded to win, so he gets in office. North

1466
01:21:15,479 --> 01:21:18,599
Speaker 9: Carolina gentry are historically plenty fine with big a treat,

1467
01:21:18,800 --> 01:21:20,800
Speaker 9: but the Republicans had by this point broken one of

1468
01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:23,559
Speaker 9: their cardinal rules, which is they fucked with the money. Yeah,

1469
01:21:23,600 --> 01:21:26,360
Speaker 9: because like the state was losing money, They were losing

1470
01:21:26,400 --> 01:21:29,479
Speaker 9: business deals, corporate headquarters and stuff. And this is a

1471
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,639
Speaker 9: lot of what the status quo, very antire labor says.

1472
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:35,120
Speaker 9: Quote that North kid Democrats and Republicans had generally both

1473
01:21:35,120 --> 01:21:39,519
Speaker 9: supported in varying ways was in danger and you know,

1474
01:21:39,520 --> 01:21:41,879
Speaker 9: some of them persons were losing money. So they basically

1475
01:21:41,920 --> 01:21:47,120
Speaker 9: tell the Republicans in early twenty seventeen to knock it off, like, Okay,

1476
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:49,960
Speaker 9: you've gone far enough. It didn't work, you lost the election.

1477
01:21:50,640 --> 01:21:52,360
Speaker 9: They still do the Jerry manner had a lot of

1478
01:21:52,360 --> 01:21:54,920
Speaker 9: power in the state legislature, but they didn't have the

1479
01:21:54,920 --> 01:21:59,200
Speaker 9: governor's office anymore, so you know, repeal this, like we're

1480
01:21:59,200 --> 01:22:01,640
Speaker 9: getting too much bad to see. And what really escalated

1481
01:22:01,680 --> 01:22:04,560
Speaker 9: it was basketball is kind of a religion in North Carolina,

1482
01:22:04,760 --> 01:22:07,880
Speaker 9: especially college basketball, and the NCAA said, look, we'll pull

1483
01:22:07,920 --> 01:22:09,880
Speaker 9: the tournament out of HB two is still in the books.

1484
01:22:10,360 --> 01:22:13,120
Speaker 9: And at that point there became like these back and

1485
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:17,439
Speaker 9: forth sessions. Earlier in December, there was this compromise effort

1486
01:22:17,680 --> 01:22:21,920
Speaker 9: where supposedly Charlotte would strike its non discrimination stuff on

1487
01:22:22,000 --> 01:22:24,920
Speaker 9: its end. It was currently like the source of legal challenge.

1488
01:22:24,920 --> 01:22:27,519
Speaker 9: They'd gone to court to fight to uphold it. And

1489
01:22:27,920 --> 01:22:30,960
Speaker 9: this should have been a warning sign. The governor, ELEC. Cooper,

1490
01:22:30,960 --> 01:22:34,480
Speaker 9: at that point brokeer kind of this deal where okay, Charlotte,

1491
01:22:34,600 --> 01:22:36,880
Speaker 9: you take trains people out of your non screaming short

1492
01:22:36,920 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 9: and insa of your own accord and the state will

1493
01:22:39,120 --> 01:22:42,559
Speaker 9: repeal HB two. Well that didn't happen. They did the

1494
01:22:42,560 --> 01:22:44,840
Speaker 9: first part, and then the least legislators were like, okay,

1495
01:22:44,920 --> 01:22:47,519
Speaker 9: well that's nice, we're not doing anything about this. That

1496
01:22:47,600 --> 01:22:51,439
Speaker 9: should have been a lesson about complying in advance, but

1497
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:55,400
Speaker 9: it didn't really seem to take Sadly, so HB two

1498
01:22:55,360 --> 01:22:57,400
Speaker 9: wastll in the books. By March, you know, March Madness

1499
01:22:57,520 --> 01:23:00,759
Speaker 9: is coming up and all that, And so they finally

1500
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:04,720
Speaker 9: do a repealed and this is still hailed as oh,

1501
01:23:04,800 --> 01:23:07,680
Speaker 9: look like back in the day, like even Republicans, some

1502
01:23:07,800 --> 01:23:10,479
Speaker 9: Republicans would like repeal a trans bill when it got

1503
01:23:10,479 --> 01:23:12,720
Speaker 9: this big backlash. Their federal funding was being threatened as

1504
01:23:12,760 --> 01:23:15,439
Speaker 9: well for the state. It's not like federal education funding

1505
01:23:15,479 --> 01:23:18,639
Speaker 9: and all. That's not what happened though, And what happened

1506
01:23:18,680 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 9: I think is actually was a lot more ominous and

1507
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:24,080
Speaker 9: a lot more revealing. What passed instead was honestly a

1508
01:23:24,080 --> 01:23:27,240
Speaker 9: second bathroom bill called HB one four to two or

1509
01:23:27,400 --> 01:23:30,120
Speaker 9: HB two point zero, as a lot of activists and

1510
01:23:30,240 --> 01:23:32,400
Speaker 9: queer folks in the ground Transfer the Ground dubbed it.

1511
01:23:32,840 --> 01:23:35,960
Speaker 9: And what this bill did was it technically took out

1512
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 9: the bathroom ban, but it's put in a bunch of

1513
01:23:38,320 --> 01:23:40,680
Speaker 9: byzantine provisions about who could use the bathroom wins, so

1514
01:23:40,680 --> 01:23:42,439
Speaker 9: it would still take a court case for a trans

1515
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:46,280
Speaker 9: woman to go use the women's bathroom. It kept all

1516
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:48,400
Speaker 9: the anti labor stuff, and it kept all the non

1517
01:23:48,400 --> 01:23:51,479
Speaker 9: discrimination stuff struck down for years, like you couldn't pass

1518
01:23:51,560 --> 01:23:55,760
Speaker 9: local manscration protections for years, and at this point the

1519
01:23:55,800 --> 01:23:59,840
Speaker 9: pressure is mounting the Democratic Party for the first time

1520
01:24:00,800 --> 01:24:04,200
Speaker 9: most of a decade, their votes in the legislature actually

1521
01:24:04,280 --> 01:24:07,000
Speaker 9: matter because the Republicans they're split between kind of the

1522
01:24:07,000 --> 01:24:08,840
Speaker 9: capitalists who are hate trains that were using this as

1523
01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:11,040
Speaker 9: a wedge issue and now the money's being fucked with

1524
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:13,599
Speaker 9: they're ready to repeal it, and some of the others

1525
01:24:13,640 --> 01:24:15,960
Speaker 9: who are like, no, no, we really are dedicated to

1526
01:24:16,000 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 9: hating trans people. The state can burn as long as

1527
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 9: trans people's lives are made more miserable. So they have

1528
01:24:20,280 --> 01:24:22,640
Speaker 9: the votes in their own caucus to pass this. So

1529
01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:25,040
Speaker 9: for once DEM's had a lot of power and they

1530
01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:27,759
Speaker 9: could have easily been like no floor or peel or nothing,

1531
01:24:27,880 --> 01:24:30,960
Speaker 9: and they probably would have gotten it through. They did not.

1532
01:24:31,360 --> 01:24:34,439
Speaker 9: They sided with the Republicans. They passed this mess that

1533
01:24:34,880 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 9: essentially kept the status quo. It was just barely enough

1534
01:24:38,439 --> 01:24:41,360
Speaker 9: for the NCAA, who even noted they even know their corporation.

1535
01:24:41,439 --> 01:24:44,160
Speaker 9: Basically they know it was reluctant that they were, you know,

1536
01:24:44,520 --> 01:24:47,439
Speaker 9: putting the tournament back in NC, but they did. The

1537
01:24:47,479 --> 01:24:50,920
Speaker 9: governor knew. Governor Democratic governor signed it. I probably forget

1538
01:24:50,920 --> 01:24:53,639
Speaker 9: as mentioned earlier. HB two passed with two Democratic votes.

1539
01:24:53,640 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 9: In the first place, this is like not a new

1540
01:24:56,040 --> 01:24:59,479
Speaker 9: trend of this happening. Heck, anti queer stuff even well

1541
01:24:59,479 --> 01:25:02,559
Speaker 9: before that would often pass with democratic support as well

1542
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 9: as Republican support, often be signed by democratic governors, So

1543
01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:10,120
Speaker 9: this is not an entirely new thing. And this is

1544
01:25:10,160 --> 01:25:12,519
Speaker 9: also a point where you can see gay Ink splitting

1545
01:25:12,560 --> 01:25:15,680
Speaker 9: a bit because gay Ink did actually had actually condemned

1546
01:25:16,000 --> 01:25:20,000
Speaker 9: h two point zero, but once it became passed, they

1547
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,240
Speaker 9: either offered tempted statements or they backed down, and so

1548
01:25:23,479 --> 01:25:27,559
Speaker 9: the lesson from HB two wasn't okay. Back in the day,

1549
01:25:27,800 --> 01:25:30,880
Speaker 9: you know, nine years ago, trans rights used to be

1550
01:25:30,920 --> 01:25:34,000
Speaker 9: more of a consensus, even among moderate conservatives, at least

1551
01:25:34,000 --> 01:25:37,040
Speaker 9: basic protections for it. And a good example was how

1552
01:25:37,160 --> 01:25:40,840
Speaker 9: unpopular hbtw was it was repealed under all this backlash.

1553
01:25:41,160 --> 01:25:44,400
Speaker 9: It did get a backlash, but it wasn't really repealed.

1554
01:25:44,520 --> 01:25:46,760
Speaker 9: And as a matter of fact, what the far right

1555
01:25:46,880 --> 01:25:50,439
Speaker 9: learned was that when it comes down to it, the

1556
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:54,240
Speaker 9: Democrats North Carolina, it turned out, elsewhere will fold if

1557
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:55,960
Speaker 9: trans rights has made an issue.

1558
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:59,400
Speaker 7: Yeah, and you know, and you can watch everything that

1559
01:25:59,439 --> 01:26:03,240
Speaker 7: has happened and since with trans rights has just been

1560
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:05,640
Speaker 7: the Democrats folding over and over and over again and

1561
01:26:05,680 --> 01:26:08,639
Speaker 7: getting weaker and weaker language until we're in this place now,

1562
01:26:08,840 --> 01:26:10,320
Speaker 7: you know, Like and I think the thing that is

1563
01:26:10,360 --> 01:26:13,200
Speaker 7: a little bit different is that like you used to

1564
01:26:13,280 --> 01:26:17,360
Speaker 7: have to like claim you had done something about the

1565
01:26:17,400 --> 01:26:19,640
Speaker 7: anti trans bill, and now you can just sign it

1566
01:26:19,720 --> 01:26:22,560
Speaker 7: yeh and it becomes law. And this is something that

1567
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:24,320
Speaker 7: has does played out across the country. Like there have

1568
01:26:24,439 --> 01:26:27,879
Speaker 7: been a lot of states where Democratic governors have signed

1569
01:26:27,920 --> 01:26:29,320
Speaker 7: anti trans bills, yes.

1570
01:26:29,160 --> 01:26:31,160
Speaker 9: Or vita pro trans bills like in California.

1571
01:26:31,320 --> 01:26:34,919
Speaker 7: Yeah, And you know even in states where like Pritzker,

1572
01:26:35,000 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 7: the governor of Illinois, has been being held up as

1573
01:26:36,880 --> 01:26:38,800
Speaker 7: like the big pro trans people I've seen. I see

1574
01:26:38,840 --> 01:26:41,880
Speaker 7: like even trans leftists doing this, and you know, like

1575
01:26:41,960 --> 01:26:43,400
Speaker 7: there are a lot of things in Illinois that are

1576
01:26:43,439 --> 01:26:46,679
Speaker 7: very good for trans people. Because of the weird Pritzker corruption,

1577
01:26:46,800 --> 01:26:49,879
Speaker 7: his sister is trans. And also the moment the government

1578
01:26:50,040 --> 01:26:53,000
Speaker 7: was like, oh, hey, we're gonna like sort of make

1579
01:26:53,040 --> 01:26:56,840
Speaker 7: a big show of threatening like healthcare funding, Pritsker just

1580
01:26:57,000 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 7: folded and let all these hospitals stop providing transcrir to youth,

1581
01:27:00,000 --> 01:27:02,640
Speaker 7: even though it is literally a violation of Illinois like

1582
01:27:02,680 --> 01:27:06,040
Speaker 7: of Illinois discrimination legislation. Yeah, they just back down and

1583
01:27:06,120 --> 01:27:06,760
Speaker 7: refuse to do it.

1584
01:27:06,920 --> 01:27:07,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1585
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 7: And the way that this starts that there is a

1586
01:27:09,840 --> 01:27:13,559
Speaker 7: gap between the rhetoric of someone like Pritzker being like,

1587
01:27:13,640 --> 01:27:16,000
Speaker 7: oh no, like we support trans rights. Trans rights are

1588
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,120
Speaker 7: in an important civil rights issue, and then you watch

1589
01:27:18,160 --> 01:27:21,080
Speaker 7: them like allow a bunch of hospitals in Illinois to

1590
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:23,880
Speaker 7: stop providing character trans kids. And the place where that

1591
01:27:24,040 --> 01:27:28,400
Speaker 7: ends is more and more Democrats just straight up voting

1592
01:27:28,439 --> 01:27:29,120
Speaker 7: for this stuff.

1593
01:27:29,360 --> 01:27:29,559
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1594
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 7: And it's and the Democrats, you know, as you're talking

1595
01:27:31,960 --> 01:27:35,280
Speaker 7: about with with HB two is like you know, there

1596
01:27:35,360 --> 01:27:36,960
Speaker 7: were there were Democratic votes on that one.

1597
01:27:37,160 --> 01:27:41,200
Speaker 9: Yeah, HB one four two especially yeah, the compromise, but

1598
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:42,880
Speaker 9: even h ME to itself, Yeah, there were there were

1599
01:27:42,920 --> 01:27:44,080
Speaker 9: Democrats who score that too.

1600
01:27:44,280 --> 01:27:45,920
Speaker 7: Yeah. And so this is this is I think the

1601
01:27:45,920 --> 01:27:48,880
Speaker 7: critical part of this is that like this stuff only

1602
01:27:48,960 --> 01:27:51,680
Speaker 7: can happen with the support of the Democrats. And that's

1603
01:27:51,840 --> 01:27:55,120
Speaker 7: why it's happening. It's because because like, and this is

1604
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:57,320
Speaker 7: this is something that's incredibly important. Right now, We're like

1605
01:27:57,360 --> 01:27:59,759
Speaker 7: all of the ship that is happening, all these Republicans

1606
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:03,639
Speaker 7: are doing are hideously unpopun like thirty percent approval ratings

1607
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:07,800
Speaker 7: across the board for like, all of this just hideously

1608
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:12,040
Speaker 7: hideously hated. The only way it can happen is if

1609
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:16,000
Speaker 7: the Democrats go collaborationists inside with the Republicans, and that's

1610
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:16,599
Speaker 7: what they're doing.

1611
01:28:16,800 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 9: Nazis always need Whislims.

1612
01:28:18,520 --> 01:28:21,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, and they're relying on the image of resistance to

1613
01:28:21,960 --> 01:28:24,360
Speaker 7: distract everyone from the fact that they're helping these policies

1614
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:25,960
Speaker 7: go through. And if you want to stop them, you

1615
01:28:26,040 --> 01:28:27,640
Speaker 7: have to stop them from collaborating.

1616
01:28:38,000 --> 01:28:39,360
Speaker 9: I think I also brings up the kind of the

1617
01:28:39,360 --> 01:28:41,799
Speaker 9: third element in this. You've got the are always fascist,

1618
01:28:41,800 --> 01:28:46,839
Speaker 9: increasingly fashionst Republican Party, You've got the increasing collaborations Democratic Party,

1619
01:28:47,280 --> 01:28:50,920
Speaker 9: and especially on queer and trains rights, you have gay

1620
01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:53,400
Speaker 9: inc which and I go into some examples in the piece.

1621
01:28:54,120 --> 01:28:56,799
Speaker 9: After HB two point zero they put out some prefernatory statements,

1622
01:28:56,800 --> 01:28:59,759
Speaker 9: but then they turn to gatekeeping and the ensuing years

1623
01:29:00,200 --> 01:29:05,840
Speaker 9: they very consistently tried to stifle any activism that was

1624
01:29:06,600 --> 01:29:09,160
Speaker 9: more radical or more principled to try to get this

1625
01:29:09,200 --> 01:29:11,880
Speaker 9: stuff off the books, and especially if it came to

1626
01:29:11,920 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 9: holding Democratic officials feet the fire. I literally have an

1627
01:29:14,160 --> 01:29:16,920
Speaker 9: example in the article that I was physically therefore and witnessed,

1628
01:29:17,600 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 9: where a director of the canvass and Equality sees the

1629
01:29:20,439 --> 01:29:22,960
Speaker 9: mic as it was being passed some candidates to answer

1630
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:26,599
Speaker 9: a stronger question from some transactivists and change the question

1631
01:29:26,760 --> 01:29:29,240
Speaker 9: to something that didn't actually put any pressure on them

1632
01:29:29,240 --> 01:29:32,519
Speaker 9: at all, like just kind of absurd, petty stuff like that.

1633
01:29:32,800 --> 01:29:36,599
Speaker 9: But the coom of effect has been that, you know,

1634
01:29:36,640 --> 01:29:40,360
Speaker 9: they turned to thinking about their political careers and their fundraising,

1635
01:29:40,800 --> 01:29:43,320
Speaker 9: and when push comes to shove again and again, they've

1636
01:29:43,320 --> 01:29:46,200
Speaker 9: shown they won't hold Democrats' feet to the fire. If anything,

1637
01:29:46,280 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 9: they will tell the trains people trying to hold their

1638
01:29:48,200 --> 01:29:51,120
Speaker 9: feet the fire to shut up. So if you know

1639
01:29:51,280 --> 01:29:54,200
Speaker 9: that the lobby, the official lobby that's supposed to, you know,

1640
01:29:54,760 --> 01:29:57,439
Speaker 9: ostensibly on some level stand up for some mild version

1641
01:29:57,439 --> 01:30:01,479
Speaker 9: of trains and queer rights, will never give someone any

1642
01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:04,479
Speaker 9: shit for breaking ranks, not even like we can dem

1643
01:30:04,479 --> 01:30:07,840
Speaker 9: officials so and so and they're bigotry or whatever more

1644
01:30:07,840 --> 01:30:09,880
Speaker 9: we are sorely disappointed in or anyone of the boiler

1645
01:30:09,920 --> 01:30:12,200
Speaker 9: play things. They won't even go that far. That's too

1646
01:30:12,280 --> 01:30:17,760
Speaker 9: far for them. So you have Democrats collaborating and a

1647
01:30:18,320 --> 01:30:22,439
Speaker 9: gay ink structure that has taken the energy and funding

1648
01:30:22,439 --> 01:30:26,000
Speaker 9: out of lat of other queer activism, but will absolutely

1649
01:30:26,040 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 9: will not fight when Democrats are involved. So if you're fascist,

1650
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:30,839
Speaker 9: all you have to do is get some Democrats involved.

1651
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that's that's how you give VICHI friends Like

1652
01:30:34,439 --> 01:30:35,360
Speaker 7: that's yeah.

1653
01:30:35,439 --> 01:30:37,720
Speaker 9: And honestly, this is it's a question I put to

1654
01:30:37,720 --> 01:30:40,720
Speaker 9: folks because you know, look, I'm honestly dealing with the

1655
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:42,479
Speaker 9: North Caround Democrats is one of the things that made

1656
01:30:42,479 --> 01:30:46,240
Speaker 9: be an anarchist. So so it's you know, I've not

1657
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:49,360
Speaker 9: had any faith in them for a very very long time.

1658
01:30:49,400 --> 01:30:51,479
Speaker 9: But for folks that you know, kind of do put

1659
01:30:51,680 --> 01:30:55,080
Speaker 9: a little more energie into electoral processes, I just you know,

1660
01:30:55,640 --> 01:30:57,439
Speaker 9: so questions the piece I think are worth asking them,

1661
01:30:57,439 --> 01:31:00,120
Speaker 9: Like what's the point of people who are just to

1662
01:31:00,160 --> 01:31:02,640
Speaker 9: support your enemies? Yeah, what's the point of people that

1663
01:31:02,680 --> 01:31:05,640
Speaker 9: you elect, maybe even like get out you know and

1664
01:31:06,200 --> 01:31:09,800
Speaker 9: dock doors or whatever to get elected, who then don't

1665
01:31:09,800 --> 01:31:12,760
Speaker 9: do the one thing they're elected to do? And God

1666
01:31:12,760 --> 01:31:14,640
Speaker 9: asked too for some of the folks who support some

1667
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:17,360
Speaker 9: of these gay ink ords, I was like, if they

1668
01:31:17,400 --> 01:31:20,840
Speaker 9: won't fight, now, what is the point of them, Why

1669
01:31:20,840 --> 01:31:23,839
Speaker 9: do they deserve any support from US as a community,

1670
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:27,280
Speaker 9: or is it far past time to look to other alternatives.

1671
01:31:27,320 --> 01:31:30,200
Speaker 9: There was only lesson hbto taught as well, which is

1672
01:31:30,720 --> 01:31:34,240
Speaker 9: if you want even the most die hard bigot to

1673
01:31:34,520 --> 01:31:38,759
Speaker 9: start losing their nerve to attack their money and their power,

1674
01:31:39,600 --> 01:31:43,080
Speaker 9: and then you don't stop if say, oh you have

1675
01:31:43,160 --> 01:31:45,800
Speaker 9: to compromise with a pragmatic solution, you ignore them, laugh

1676
01:31:45,840 --> 01:31:49,000
Speaker 9: in their faces, do whatever, but you keep pressing them

1677
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:51,320
Speaker 9: because that was their thing. HQ too, there was a

1678
01:31:51,439 --> 01:31:55,640
Speaker 9: really effective campaign to boycott and it did have a

1679
01:31:55,640 --> 01:31:59,400
Speaker 9: substantial effect. You know, the lovely weapon of vicious mockery

1680
01:32:00,040 --> 01:32:01,840
Speaker 9: really came in handy, and even the Hulgans didn't like

1681
01:32:01,880 --> 01:32:05,679
Speaker 9: becoming a national laughing stock. So there were less about

1682
01:32:05,720 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 9: how stuff could be fought as well. And the more

1683
01:32:08,120 --> 01:32:10,960
Speaker 9: radical history in North Carolina, you know, there are there

1684
01:32:11,000 --> 01:32:13,000
Speaker 9: are quier radicals here. You know, my city was hit

1685
01:32:13,000 --> 01:32:16,760
Speaker 9: by a massive hurricane last year, and honestly was a

1686
01:32:16,800 --> 01:32:20,000
Speaker 9: lot of US radicals getting out in the ground that

1687
01:32:20,560 --> 01:32:23,400
Speaker 9: kept things from getting even worse. And you know, and

1688
01:32:23,439 --> 01:32:26,719
Speaker 9: just folks on the ground pitching in outside of government structures,

1689
01:32:26,760 --> 01:32:29,440
Speaker 9: not waiting for the official nonprofits who were either devastated

1690
01:32:29,520 --> 01:32:33,280
Speaker 9: or had not planned for this. So there are other alternatives,

1691
01:32:33,720 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 9: you know, and or heck that the hell I have

1692
01:32:37,400 --> 01:32:41,800
Speaker 9: to remember I could curse here that the fact that

1693
01:32:42,000 --> 01:32:44,280
Speaker 9: civil rights the low Attenson has gone to sitidence, and

1694
01:32:44,439 --> 01:32:46,720
Speaker 9: there was a lot of organizing in those movements. It's

1695
01:32:46,760 --> 01:32:50,160
Speaker 9: a lot more Miltonant than folks. Remember that also went

1696
01:32:50,200 --> 01:32:53,639
Speaker 9: along three decades of riots and cities throughout the state

1697
01:32:53,960 --> 01:32:58,000
Speaker 9: before the old order even began to budge a little bite.

1698
01:32:58,320 --> 01:33:01,400
Speaker 9: And the lesson from that Democrats and North kind of

1699
01:33:01,400 --> 01:33:03,960
Speaker 9: status quo. And I see throughout the South and throughout

1700
01:33:04,000 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 9: the country it only budgets even starts to move when

1701
01:33:08,240 --> 01:33:11,320
Speaker 9: the cost of continuing the way it is become far

1702
01:33:11,360 --> 01:33:11,800
Speaker 9: too high.

1703
01:33:12,280 --> 01:33:15,679
Speaker 7: Yeah, And our job is to impose that cost. Yes,

1704
01:33:15,720 --> 01:33:17,920
Speaker 7: because if we don't impose that cost, they're going to

1705
01:33:18,000 --> 01:33:20,719
Speaker 7: keep pushing and they are going to continue to write

1706
01:33:20,800 --> 01:33:22,640
Speaker 7: us out of existence until they have the guns to

1707
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:22,880
Speaker 7: do it.

1708
01:33:23,000 --> 01:33:25,519
Speaker 9: Yeah. And honestly, that is that is a mentality I

1709
01:33:25,560 --> 01:33:29,080
Speaker 9: think a lot more people need to need to absorb.

1710
01:33:30,000 --> 01:33:32,320
Speaker 9: And I think one of the lessons from you know,

1711
01:33:32,760 --> 01:33:35,519
Speaker 9: fighting the far right at some points for my entire

1712
01:33:35,800 --> 01:33:38,439
Speaker 9: like adult life, basically even a little bit before then

1713
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:42,479
Speaker 9: in North Carolina is that the more you fight than

1714
01:33:42,479 --> 01:33:45,160
Speaker 9: the weaker they are. But also, and this is this

1715
01:33:45,200 --> 01:33:47,599
Speaker 9: is something one of the more experience transfernds the South

1716
01:33:47,640 --> 01:33:51,360
Speaker 9: I know has emphasized you won't always win, you can

1717
01:33:51,520 --> 01:33:55,200
Speaker 9: always inflict a cost. Yeah, and I think a little

1718
01:33:55,240 --> 01:33:57,439
Speaker 9: more like thinking outside of elections, a little more bloody

1719
01:33:57,439 --> 01:34:01,559
Speaker 9: minded determination can really come in hand of the sense

1720
01:34:01,640 --> 01:34:04,800
Speaker 9: of like, if our enemies are like, okay, court rules

1721
01:34:04,800 --> 01:34:08,800
Speaker 9: against us, we're still pressing the attack. Okay, election goes

1722
01:34:08,800 --> 01:34:11,599
Speaker 9: against us, We're still pressing the attack. I think we

1723
01:34:11,640 --> 01:34:13,720
Speaker 9: can do way meaner and way better than they than

1724
01:34:13,760 --> 01:34:16,559
Speaker 9: they do on that front. Yep, something goes against us,

1725
01:34:16,800 --> 01:34:20,599
Speaker 9: that's nice, We're still pressing the attack. You know, there's

1726
01:34:20,840 --> 01:34:23,519
Speaker 9: nothing in this healthscape of an empire we have to

1727
01:34:23,560 --> 01:34:25,599
Speaker 9: abide by, especially not in the South.

1728
01:34:25,920 --> 01:34:26,240
Speaker 7: Yeah.

1729
01:34:26,720 --> 01:34:29,719
Speaker 9: Yeah, So if something doesn't go our way once, okay,

1730
01:34:30,080 --> 01:34:32,840
Speaker 9: learn regroup, redouble, make sure you inflicted some costs, go

1731
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:33,880
Speaker 9: out and inflict more of them.

1732
01:34:34,320 --> 01:34:38,639
Speaker 7: They're not invincible, trust me. Yeah, another gender is possible.

1733
01:34:38,720 --> 01:34:40,360
Speaker 7: You just have to go out and fight for exactly.

1734
01:34:41,240 --> 01:34:43,040
Speaker 15: Yeah.

1735
01:34:43,080 --> 01:34:46,000
Speaker 7: So I think on that note, David, where can people

1736
01:34:46,040 --> 01:34:46,759
Speaker 7: find your work.

1737
01:34:47,040 --> 01:34:50,280
Speaker 9: You can find my stuff for trans News Network at

1738
01:34:50,640 --> 01:34:54,880
Speaker 9: Transnews dot Network, including this most recent piece. And you

1739
01:34:54,920 --> 01:34:57,519
Speaker 9: can find some of my local reporting as part of

1740
01:34:57,560 --> 01:35:01,400
Speaker 9: the Ashville Blade co op at Asheville Blade dot com.

1741
01:35:01,439 --> 01:35:04,760
Speaker 7: Awesome. And y'all at both the Transduced Network and the

1742
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:07,240
Speaker 7: actual Bladey've been doing a bunch of absolutely incredible work.

1743
01:35:07,280 --> 01:35:11,200
Speaker 7: Thank you, and I encourage everyone to support both because ideally,

1744
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:13,639
Speaker 7: the function of journalism is to be the targeting mechanism

1745
01:35:13,720 --> 01:35:18,439
Speaker 7: of the class, and these are these are two groups

1746
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:20,559
Speaker 7: of working class trans journalists to do.

1747
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:22,639
Speaker 9: It, and both organizations are worker run.

1748
01:35:22,840 --> 01:35:23,800
Speaker 3: I should add.

1749
01:35:24,000 --> 01:35:46,439
Speaker 7: Yep, this has been it could happen here, Go fight them.

1750
01:35:46,479 --> 01:35:50,759
Speaker 12: This is it could happen here. Executive Disorder our weekly

1751
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:54,040
Speaker 12: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,

1752
01:35:54,080 --> 01:35:56,799
Speaker 12: what it means for you. I'm Garrison Davis. This episode,

1753
01:35:56,840 --> 01:36:00,400
Speaker 12: I'm joined by Mia Wong and Robert Evans, working the

1754
01:36:00,439 --> 01:36:03,400
Speaker 12: week of August twenty first and August twenty seventh.

1755
01:36:04,160 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, we sure are.

1756
01:36:06,880 --> 01:36:10,640
Speaker 12: I can't believe Cracker Barrel would do that. It's outrageous.

1757
01:36:11,080 --> 01:36:13,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's clearly the biggest news.

1758
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:16,240
Speaker 12: Thankfully they switched it back. They took the cracker out

1759
01:36:16,280 --> 01:36:19,040
Speaker 12: of the barrel, and thankfully though they've.

1760
01:36:18,840 --> 01:36:20,800
Speaker 2: Reversed course put the cracker back in.

1761
01:36:21,680 --> 01:36:24,160
Speaker 12: I really don't understand how it's how it's woke. I mean,

1762
01:36:24,160 --> 01:36:26,519
Speaker 12: I do understand, because I understand how this messaging works, but.

1763
01:36:26,720 --> 01:36:29,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't matter anytime anything happens, and they can see

1764
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:32,880
Speaker 2: a backlash forming you after the fact, because people were

1765
01:36:32,920 --> 01:36:36,400
Speaker 2: starting to get pissed off about the fucking cracker barrel

1766
01:36:36,520 --> 01:36:38,519
Speaker 2: thing in the same way, like that happen with fucking

1767
01:36:38,520 --> 01:36:41,360
Speaker 2: Games Workshop earlier this year, like they redid their logo

1768
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:44,519
Speaker 2: in a shitty way. It's the same like animal bullshit. Yeah,

1769
01:36:44,520 --> 01:36:45,720
Speaker 2: it's everyone's doing it.

1770
01:36:45,720 --> 01:36:48,760
Speaker 12: It's it's it's it's not woke. Yeah, it's just incentivizing

1771
01:36:49,080 --> 01:36:51,960
Speaker 12: like capitalist conformity. This is why they've changed all of

1772
01:36:52,000 --> 01:36:54,360
Speaker 12: the buildings of like you know, McDonald's pizza Hut to

1773
01:36:54,400 --> 01:36:57,000
Speaker 12: the same structure, so you can use the property and

1774
01:36:57,040 --> 01:36:58,840
Speaker 12: resell it over and over and over again without having

1775
01:36:58,840 --> 01:37:02,080
Speaker 12: to do this big renovation. It's just all about capitalist efficiency.

1776
01:37:02,200 --> 01:37:03,479
Speaker 12: It's not about woke.

1777
01:37:03,800 --> 01:37:06,920
Speaker 2: It's got nothing to do with woke. But there's people

1778
01:37:06,920 --> 01:37:09,719
Speaker 2: whose whole like Chris Rufo, whose whole job is sitting

1779
01:37:09,720 --> 01:37:12,080
Speaker 2: around and as soon as you started to see the

1780
01:37:12,120 --> 01:37:15,160
Speaker 2: backlash forming it and realize like, oh, there's probably gonna

1781
01:37:15,160 --> 01:37:17,080
Speaker 2: be a spree of these companies coming in with these

1782
01:37:17,120 --> 01:37:21,440
Speaker 2: new minimalist logos, because it's clearly a trend in like consultancies,

1783
01:37:21,640 --> 01:37:25,000
Speaker 2: right like it started happening. This is not the first one.

1784
01:37:25,240 --> 01:37:27,400
Speaker 2: So I'm just gonna look around until I see one

1785
01:37:27,400 --> 01:37:29,559
Speaker 2: of these that feels like it's got culture war potential,

1786
01:37:30,000 --> 01:37:32,559
Speaker 2: and cracker Barrel is an obvious one, like if I'm looking,

1787
01:37:32,600 --> 01:37:34,439
Speaker 2: if I was looking out there, that's when I would

1788
01:37:34,439 --> 01:37:35,320
Speaker 2: pick right, Like.

1789
01:37:35,439 --> 01:37:38,000
Speaker 12: I think they're also responding to, like, you know, the

1790
01:37:38,439 --> 01:37:41,280
Speaker 12: past few years where we've been removing like racist caricatures

1791
01:37:41,320 --> 01:37:44,679
Speaker 12: from logos right with like like Entermima's and like Lando

1792
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:48,680
Speaker 12: Lakes and using this in a similar way, except they

1793
01:37:48,680 --> 01:37:53,160
Speaker 12: took quite the white guy leaning against the barrel. Yeah,

1794
01:37:53,200 --> 01:37:56,280
Speaker 12: so it's part part part of that whole backlash as well.

1795
01:37:56,320 --> 01:37:58,560
Speaker 12: It's funny though I have seen like I don't I

1796
01:37:58,560 --> 01:38:00,160
Speaker 12: don't know if it's from Chris Rufo, but you know,

1797
01:38:00,200 --> 01:38:03,599
Speaker 12: people similar in that orbit talking about how this thing

1798
01:38:03,640 --> 01:38:08,920
Speaker 12: actually is wokeism because minimalism is based on brutalism, which

1799
01:38:08,960 --> 01:38:13,280
Speaker 12: was invented by communists. So actually turning everything into this

1800
01:38:13,320 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 12: minimalist design is actually a plot from the Frankfurt School,

1801
01:38:18,080 --> 01:38:19,639
Speaker 12: the Communists taking over.

1802
01:38:20,200 --> 01:38:24,639
Speaker 2: I mean, look, it doesn't matter outside of the fact

1803
01:38:24,680 --> 01:38:28,559
Speaker 2: that people, whenever you buy into it, like you're you're

1804
01:38:28,560 --> 01:38:30,960
Speaker 2: helping to feed like if you like, even dunking on.

1805
01:38:31,080 --> 01:38:33,600
Speaker 2: That's part of the problem is that like, yeah, just

1806
01:38:33,640 --> 01:38:36,920
Speaker 2: talking about this shit at all fuels the feedback loop, right,

1807
01:38:36,960 --> 01:38:39,320
Speaker 2: And that's that's what this is, is a feedback loop

1808
01:38:39,320 --> 01:38:41,960
Speaker 2: that they're very good at manipulating for political purposes. And

1809
01:38:42,320 --> 01:38:44,120
Speaker 2: I'm not going to sit here and lecture you and say,

1810
01:38:44,160 --> 01:38:48,000
Speaker 2: like stop commenting on this, stop talking about this stuff,

1811
01:38:48,040 --> 01:38:52,760
Speaker 2: but we do need to understand that this is the

1812
01:38:52,800 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 2: olds in the audience will remember the old Simpsons Halloween

1813
01:38:55,640 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 2: episode where the different like mascots from different companies like

1814
01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:02,960
Speaker 2: come alive and start murdering people in town. And the

1815
01:39:02,960 --> 01:39:05,720
Speaker 2: solution that's an old ad man gives everyone is like, well,

1816
01:39:05,720 --> 01:39:07,759
Speaker 2: if you want to stop the monsters, just look away.

1817
01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:11,519
Speaker 2: Advertising feeds on attention, you know, and as every once

1818
01:39:11,560 --> 01:39:15,439
Speaker 2: everyone ignores the monsters, they go away. And unfortunately that's

1819
01:39:15,439 --> 01:39:17,680
Speaker 2: not how things actually work, because there's three hundred and

1820
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:20,160
Speaker 2: fifty million people in the country and so whatever you

1821
01:39:20,240 --> 01:39:22,280
Speaker 2: choose to do about this isn't going to matter. But

1822
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:26,360
Speaker 2: the feedback loop is going to continue unabated. That much

1823
01:39:26,400 --> 01:39:26,879
Speaker 2: I can.

1824
01:39:26,720 --> 01:39:30,360
Speaker 12: Say cracker barrel has fallen and like Christ after three days,

1825
01:39:30,400 --> 01:39:31,400
Speaker 12: has rose again.

1826
01:39:32,240 --> 01:39:40,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Great. Anyway, speaking of memes, unfortunately, we should talk

1827
01:39:40,080 --> 01:39:43,680
Speaker 2: about this horrible mass shooting that is probably going to

1828
01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:46,200
Speaker 2: be the big story this week. I mean, I hate

1829
01:39:46,240 --> 01:39:48,040
Speaker 2: to reduce it to that, but yeah.

1830
01:39:47,800 --> 01:39:51,599
Speaker 12: We're recording this on Wednesday, a few hours after the shooting.

1831
01:39:52,400 --> 01:39:53,520
Speaker 12: This is in Minneapolis.

1832
01:39:53,840 --> 01:39:57,920
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a mass shooting at a Minneapolis Catholic school,

1833
01:39:58,680 --> 01:40:04,240
Speaker 2: Annunciation School. This happened earlier the day that we're recording this,

1834
01:40:04,560 --> 01:40:08,400
Speaker 2: So that's going to be Wednesday, August twenty seventh. As

1835
01:40:08,439 --> 01:40:11,840
Speaker 2: of right now at about two eleven pm PST, two

1836
01:40:11,960 --> 01:40:16,559
Speaker 2: children are dead, Seventeen people, mostly children, are wounded. The

1837
01:40:16,680 --> 01:40:20,040
Speaker 2: shooter is also dead, and the shooter has been identified

1838
01:40:20,080 --> 01:40:24,520
Speaker 2: as Robin Westman, who graduated from the school in twenty seventeen.

1839
01:40:24,840 --> 01:40:28,160
Speaker 12: Their mom also worked at the school until very recently yeap.

1840
01:40:28,439 --> 01:40:31,680
Speaker 2: And that's not at all an unusual kind of situation.

1841
01:40:31,920 --> 01:40:34,880
Speaker 2: Mass shooters at schools often are either attending the school

1842
01:40:34,960 --> 01:40:37,599
Speaker 2: or recently graduated. There's been a couple of cases where

1843
01:40:37,600 --> 01:40:40,479
Speaker 2: a family member worked at the school. Like this stuff

1844
01:40:40,520 --> 01:40:43,880
Speaker 2: is all pretty standard for somebody shooting up a school.

1845
01:40:44,320 --> 01:40:46,680
Speaker 2: What's different is one of the things that's different is

1846
01:40:46,720 --> 01:40:50,479
Speaker 2: that the shooter basically followed in Brenton Terrant the christ

1847
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:53,560
Speaker 2: shooters footsteps by covering their firearms and the gear that

1848
01:40:53,600 --> 01:40:56,920
Speaker 2: they were wearing and draw like I guess drew or

1849
01:40:57,000 --> 01:40:59,280
Speaker 2: painted on. I'm not sure. It looks like with like

1850
01:40:59,280 --> 01:41:01,640
Speaker 2: a white paint pat like whiteout or something like that,

1851
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:04,840
Speaker 2: a white paint pin and covered it. In the names

1852
01:41:04,840 --> 01:41:09,280
Speaker 2: of other mass shooters, references to racial annihilation memes like

1853
01:41:09,320 --> 01:41:12,840
Speaker 2: the Removed Kabab meme, which is in short, a memes

1854
01:41:12,920 --> 01:41:17,400
Speaker 2: celebrating the Bosnian genocide, and it was a meme that

1855
01:41:17,479 --> 01:41:21,080
Speaker 2: was specifically Brenton Tarrant had signaled in his like manifesto

1856
01:41:21,160 --> 01:41:22,719
Speaker 2: and I think on his gun he had a remove

1857
01:41:22,800 --> 01:41:26,320
Speaker 2: Kebob reference. But it's something he signaled and it was

1858
01:41:26,360 --> 01:41:28,720
Speaker 2: on the shooter's firearm. As well as the names, I

1859
01:41:28,720 --> 01:41:32,000
Speaker 2: mean Tarrant, there's references to tarrent On there, Timothy mc

1860
01:41:32,360 --> 01:41:35,519
Speaker 2: McVeigh tem mcvay's name, just the word McVeigh is painted

1861
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:39,040
Speaker 2: on there. Ted Kazenski, the Unibomber.

1862
01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:42,960
Speaker 12: A whole bunch of other more recent mass shooters people

1863
01:41:42,960 --> 01:41:45,880
Speaker 12: who are in like the mass shooter fandom, yeah, as

1864
01:41:45,880 --> 01:41:50,280
Speaker 12: well as just a collection of memes from like old memes.

1865
01:41:49,960 --> 01:41:54,080
Speaker 2: Too utterly unrelated to shooting, Like there's a loss meme

1866
01:41:54,200 --> 01:41:56,400
Speaker 2: on there, and if you're a lot of people are going, wait,

1867
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:59,240
Speaker 2: what the fuck really? And if you're too young for

1868
01:41:59,240 --> 01:42:00,840
Speaker 2: a loss, they're used to be a wet well. I

1869
01:42:00,880 --> 01:42:03,479
Speaker 2: think there still is a web comic called Control Alt Delete.

1870
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:06,640
Speaker 2: It started in like the early two thousands. It might

1871
01:42:06,680 --> 01:42:08,160
Speaker 2: have gotten started in the late nineties, and it was

1872
01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:10,560
Speaker 2: part of like this, there's this boom in webcomics in

1873
01:42:10,560 --> 01:42:12,800
Speaker 2: the late nineties when suddenly the people are able to

1874
01:42:12,800 --> 01:42:15,680
Speaker 2: make their own comics online and make livings off of them.

1875
01:42:15,800 --> 01:42:20,360
Speaker 2: A whole bunch of guys made gaming comics after Penny Arcade,

1876
01:42:20,360 --> 01:42:22,000
Speaker 2: which is like the big one that blew up, And

1877
01:42:22,040 --> 01:42:23,639
Speaker 2: one of them was Tim Buckley, who did a comic

1878
01:42:23,680 --> 01:42:26,320
Speaker 2: called Control All Delete that was not good and he

1879
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:29,520
Speaker 2: tried to have a serious storyline where his character's girlfriend

1880
01:42:29,680 --> 01:42:32,960
Speaker 2: has a miscarriage, and the strip in which he finds

1881
01:42:33,000 --> 01:42:36,280
Speaker 2: her having a miscarriage is called loss. And it's gotten

1882
01:42:36,280 --> 01:42:39,519
Speaker 2: to the point where people are abstracting the four panels

1883
01:42:39,560 --> 01:42:43,000
Speaker 2: into like a minimalist line representation of how the blocking

1884
01:42:43,000 --> 01:42:45,559
Speaker 2: look like. It's a bit people have done everything like

1885
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:49,240
Speaker 2: put loss memes on everything, like that's the joke at

1886
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:51,240
Speaker 2: this point, more than a reference to the show is like,

1887
01:42:51,320 --> 01:42:54,160
Speaker 2: look at this new crazy place. Somebody put a loss meme,

1888
01:42:54,360 --> 01:42:56,680
Speaker 2: and so yeah, it's a game, and a lot of

1889
01:42:56,680 --> 01:42:58,240
Speaker 2: what we're seeing with the shooter is like, oh, this

1890
01:42:58,280 --> 01:43:00,320
Speaker 2: is the natural extent of a bunch of things, and

1891
01:43:00,439 --> 01:43:03,439
Speaker 2: a fucking mass shooter putting a loss meme on the

1892
01:43:03,479 --> 01:43:05,880
Speaker 2: bear or on the side of their gun before shooting

1893
01:43:05,920 --> 01:43:10,000
Speaker 2: up a school is the natural furthest craziest extent of

1894
01:43:10,160 --> 01:43:11,240
Speaker 2: the loss meme. Right.

1895
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:14,120
Speaker 12: If this is anything, it is like a mimetic shooting.

1896
01:43:14,439 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 12: It is based on a whole bunch of memes about

1897
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:20,800
Speaker 12: other mass shootings as well, specifically in the way that

1898
01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:25,000
Speaker 12: engages in like anti semitism and racism and includes slurs

1899
01:43:25,040 --> 01:43:28,080
Speaker 12: and catchphrases. It's not in the way that the shooter

1900
01:43:28,120 --> 01:43:31,759
Speaker 12: actually believes these things ideologically, it is just to gesture

1901
01:43:31,960 --> 01:43:35,160
Speaker 12: to them as they exist in the lineage of other

1902
01:43:35,240 --> 01:43:38,479
Speaker 12: mass shootings. It is like it's a perfunctory use of

1903
01:43:38,600 --> 01:43:42,599
Speaker 12: slurs and of messaging that just kind of wraps around

1904
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:47,639
Speaker 12: this whole like nihilistic fandom culture around other mass shooters,

1905
01:43:47,680 --> 01:43:50,160
Speaker 12: and like that is that's what this shooting is. I've

1906
01:43:50,439 --> 01:43:53,360
Speaker 12: watched now like seventeen minutes a video of the shooter

1907
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 12: like showing off their weapons, going through their like diaries

1908
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:59,320
Speaker 12: and journals, inspired by a whole bunch of like Eastern

1909
01:43:59,320 --> 01:44:02,680
Speaker 12: European mass shooters as well, and this shooter reminds me

1910
01:44:02,760 --> 01:44:07,800
Speaker 12: of participants of what's called the true crime community or TCC.

1911
01:44:08,600 --> 01:44:12,080
Speaker 12: Not as in like the genre of true crime podcasts

1912
01:44:12,120 --> 01:44:15,960
Speaker 12: or documentaries, but it's more of an online fandom based

1913
01:44:16,000 --> 01:44:19,560
Speaker 12: on a personal obsession with mass killers themselves and specifically

1914
01:44:19,560 --> 01:44:23,680
Speaker 12: school shooters. And this community encourages reenactments and tries to

1915
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:27,200
Speaker 12: get some people to do their own mass shootings. Yeah,

1916
01:44:27,240 --> 01:44:29,840
Speaker 12: and this is not the first one of these we've

1917
01:44:29,880 --> 01:44:32,160
Speaker 12: had in this past year. Now, the shooting in Wisconsin

1918
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:35,559
Speaker 12: last December. I spent the repnow, which we reported on

1919
01:44:35,560 --> 01:44:39,280
Speaker 12: on Nikodeppen here was also in this variant of like

1920
01:44:39,439 --> 01:44:43,040
Speaker 12: Columbiner True Crime Community Shootings. Repnow's name is on one

1921
01:44:43,040 --> 01:44:46,040
Speaker 12: of this shooter's rifles. Yes, there was a shooting in

1922
01:44:46,080 --> 01:44:49,599
Speaker 12: Tennessee a few months later which also referenced Repnow, done

1923
01:44:49,600 --> 01:44:52,960
Speaker 12: by a black white supremacist in cel whose manifesto was

1924
01:44:52,960 --> 01:44:56,960
Speaker 12: full of like plagiarized memes and other manifestos. It's about this,

1925
01:44:57,160 --> 01:45:00,200
Speaker 12: like yeah, this complete lack of meaning, Like they they

1926
01:45:00,520 --> 01:45:04,200
Speaker 12: scattershot all of these memes and references and like bits

1927
01:45:04,240 --> 01:45:07,960
Speaker 12: of manifestos and images to just to make this whole

1928
01:45:08,720 --> 01:45:11,519
Speaker 12: mess of stuff to look at. But none of it

1929
01:45:11,560 --> 01:45:12,920
Speaker 12: actually means anything.

1930
01:45:12,760 --> 01:45:15,200
Speaker 2: Well, and the draining of meaning, the flattening of meaning

1931
01:45:15,280 --> 01:45:17,280
Speaker 2: is part of the po that's the point taking is

1932
01:45:17,400 --> 01:45:20,840
Speaker 2: taking a man who shot fucking fifty people to death

1933
01:45:21,360 --> 01:45:24,080
Speaker 2: and turning that into the same thing as a twenty

1934
01:45:24,200 --> 01:45:26,200
Speaker 2: year old joke about a comic strip in terms of

1935
01:45:26,280 --> 01:45:30,000
Speaker 2: its impact and severity, Because if that's no more serious

1936
01:45:30,240 --> 01:45:33,639
Speaker 2: or meaningful or painful than fucking a joke about Tim

1937
01:45:33,720 --> 01:45:37,280
Speaker 2: Buckley's dumbass cartoon. Like once you get someone in a

1938
01:45:37,360 --> 01:45:40,960
Speaker 2: mind state where they accept that they're willing to accept

1939
01:45:41,000 --> 01:45:42,960
Speaker 2: a lot of terrible things, right, And the goal here

1940
01:45:43,320 --> 01:45:47,200
Speaker 2: is creating content in the form of mass shootings, right,

1941
01:45:47,760 --> 01:45:49,639
Speaker 2: Like that that is the goal, and that is also

1942
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:52,320
Speaker 2: what people are consciously. A lot of people want to

1943
01:45:52,400 --> 01:45:55,280
Speaker 2: be a part of themselves. You mentioned the last year's

1944
01:45:55,280 --> 01:45:58,360
Speaker 2: shooting that committed by Samantha Rupp now, but there's also

1945
01:45:58,439 --> 01:46:01,080
Speaker 2: I found a December thirtieth, twenty twenty four article in

1946
01:46:01,240 --> 01:46:06,120
Speaker 2: Wisconsin Public radiowpr dot org their website. It talks about retnow,

1947
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:08,519
Speaker 2: but it also gives the story of thirteen year old

1948
01:46:08,720 --> 01:46:12,800
Speaker 2: Jamie Sitz, who killed herself in twenty twenty four and

1949
01:46:13,120 --> 01:46:15,439
Speaker 2: was a member of the true crime community. The police

1950
01:46:15,479 --> 01:46:17,680
Speaker 2: went through her phone and they found a bunch of

1951
01:46:17,760 --> 01:46:22,040
Speaker 2: memes and reference and like her contributing to online discussions

1952
01:46:22,080 --> 01:46:25,360
Speaker 2: and telegrams and stuff for PCC. She was obsessed with

1953
01:46:25,400 --> 01:46:27,559
Speaker 2: the Columbine Kids, right, She like engaged in a lot

1954
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:30,080
Speaker 2: of those conversations, and she was posting about her plan

1955
01:46:30,200 --> 01:46:33,200
Speaker 2: to kill herself, but she was not interested in carrying

1956
01:46:33,280 --> 01:46:36,360
Speaker 2: out like a mass shooting or killing other people. And

1957
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,639
Speaker 2: that fit in fine within the discourse like people encourage

1958
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:42,680
Speaker 2: presents basically, right, Like, yeah, I think part of the

1959
01:46:42,720 --> 01:46:45,519
Speaker 2: thriller hitary is just wanting to feel like you sitting

1960
01:46:45,680 --> 01:46:48,920
Speaker 2: on your ass on the computer, you are impacting the

1961
01:46:49,040 --> 01:46:51,640
Speaker 2: world in part because like you feel like that's the

1962
01:46:51,720 --> 01:46:54,120
Speaker 2: only chunk of the world that you've got right like,

1963
01:46:55,360 --> 01:46:57,479
Speaker 2: and that's you know, tied into like the hopelessness and

1964
01:46:57,479 --> 01:47:00,519
Speaker 2: the nihilism of all of this. I found a random

1965
01:47:00,560 --> 01:47:03,320
Speaker 2: poster on Reddit in a discussion of the TCC community.

1966
01:47:03,920 --> 01:47:06,640
Speaker 2: I actually really liked this person's summary of it. And

1967
01:47:06,680 --> 01:47:09,519
Speaker 2: this is like seven years old. Interestingly enough, it's not

1968
01:47:09,560 --> 01:47:12,400
Speaker 2: a new phenomenon. It dates back to inter war period Germany.

1969
01:47:12,439 --> 01:47:14,240
Speaker 2: There were many Germans at the time who were fascinated

1970
01:47:14,280 --> 01:47:17,160
Speaker 2: with the topic of extremely grisly murder and torture, especially

1971
01:47:17,240 --> 01:47:20,519
Speaker 2: such instances where sexual arousal was involved. The German language

1972
01:47:20,520 --> 01:47:23,000
Speaker 2: even has a word for it, lust mort or lust murder.

1973
01:47:23,280 --> 01:47:24,960
Speaker 2: Serial killers were on the rise at the time, and

1974
01:47:25,000 --> 01:47:26,679
Speaker 2: many of them claimed to get extreme amounts of carnal

1975
01:47:26,720 --> 01:47:29,720
Speaker 2: pleasure from the act of killing or maiming. And there

1976
01:47:29,840 --> 01:47:33,320
Speaker 2: is this weird vein. I found another study as I

1977
01:47:33,400 --> 01:47:37,240
Speaker 2: was looking into this that uses the true crime community term.

1978
01:47:37,320 --> 01:47:40,920
Speaker 2: It's from twenty fifteen by Naomi Barnes of Utah State university,

1979
01:47:41,520 --> 01:47:44,559
Speaker 2: and it was like looking into fandoms that had grown

1980
01:47:44,640 --> 01:47:48,680
Speaker 2: up around serial killers and around spree killers online. And

1981
01:47:49,000 --> 01:47:52,120
Speaker 2: Naomi is using the word true crime community for just

1982
01:47:52,200 --> 01:47:54,439
Speaker 2: the general term of people who are interested in true crime,

1983
01:47:54,560 --> 01:47:55,920
Speaker 2: not in the way that you and I have been

1984
01:47:56,040 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 2: using it.

1985
01:47:56,479 --> 01:47:58,560
Speaker 12: Yeah, because we're using this term to refer to like

1986
01:47:58,640 --> 01:48:02,920
Speaker 12: a specific than them around like around these shootings, not

1987
01:48:03,120 --> 01:48:06,080
Speaker 12: the general milieu of like true crime podcasts and like

1988
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:08,439
Speaker 12: documentaries and people who are into that sort of content.

1989
01:48:08,760 --> 01:48:12,320
Speaker 12: We're referring to a much more niche group of people

1990
01:48:12,360 --> 01:48:16,559
Speaker 12: online who operate on like Telegram, discord, tumbler, and other

1991
01:48:16,640 --> 01:48:20,000
Speaker 12: social media accounts. Right, it's based around like specifically like

1992
01:48:20,240 --> 01:48:23,360
Speaker 12: like an obsession over actually doing these acts and like

1993
01:48:23,560 --> 01:48:26,240
Speaker 12: and and like they like cause play as these people.

1994
01:48:26,840 --> 01:48:28,760
Speaker 12: This isn't like your you know, average white woman who

1995
01:48:28,840 --> 01:48:30,600
Speaker 12: likes listening to true crime podcasts. This is this is

1996
01:48:30,640 --> 01:48:31,599
Speaker 12: something very different.

1997
01:48:31,960 --> 01:48:34,280
Speaker 2: No, and that's that's important. But it's also important to

1998
01:48:34,360 --> 01:48:36,760
Speaker 2: note that, like what you've been talking about, this this

1999
01:48:37,120 --> 01:48:40,679
Speaker 2: need to recreate and not just prior to actually carrying

2000
01:48:40,720 --> 01:48:42,640
Speaker 2: out a shooting, because most of them don't ever do that.

2001
01:48:43,280 --> 01:48:45,479
Speaker 2: There's this need, this obsession with the aesthetics to want

2002
01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:49,080
Speaker 2: to own clothing and objects and whatnot that like look

2003
01:48:49,280 --> 01:48:51,080
Speaker 2: like Eric Adyllon or whatever.

2004
01:48:51,240 --> 01:48:52,599
Speaker 12: Right the column by bandshirt.

2005
01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:57,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, that that And this does extend to the shootings,

2006
01:48:57,120 --> 01:48:59,160
Speaker 2: Like there's a number of shooters who have like worn

2007
01:48:59,240 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 2: that KMFD I'm sure because one of the columnbind guys wore.

2008
01:49:02,040 --> 01:49:05,120
Speaker 12: It cementthro up now and I believe this recent shooter

2009
01:49:05,240 --> 01:49:07,720
Speaker 12: also had had a KMDS shirt picked out.

2010
01:49:08,160 --> 01:49:10,479
Speaker 2: And what's interesting about that twenty fifteen study is that

2011
01:49:10,880 --> 01:49:14,360
Speaker 2: it is looking at the true crime community because column

2012
01:49:14,400 --> 01:49:16,080
Speaker 2: biners were already a thing. There'd been a number of

2013
01:49:16,200 --> 01:49:21,160
Speaker 2: copycat attacks, but the kind of social fandom around like

2014
01:49:21,280 --> 01:49:24,519
Speaker 2: that aspect of it had not really taken hold in

2015
01:49:24,640 --> 01:49:27,080
Speaker 2: a mass level in a way that the internet and

2016
01:49:27,160 --> 01:49:28,920
Speaker 2: virality could really make use of.

2017
01:49:29,200 --> 01:49:32,240
Speaker 12: It involved on Tumblr like in that era. Yes, it's

2018
01:49:32,280 --> 01:49:34,760
Speaker 12: more like an infant compared to like the fully grown

2019
01:49:34,880 --> 01:49:35,760
Speaker 12: version that it is now.

2020
01:49:36,200 --> 01:49:39,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's interesting to me is this this paper

2021
01:49:39,240 --> 01:49:42,360
Speaker 2: kind of catches the communities it's starting to calv off.

2022
01:49:43,000 --> 01:49:46,000
Speaker 2: And so there's a chunk of the paper where she's

2023
01:49:46,080 --> 01:49:48,519
Speaker 2: quoting from a couple of different people who went and

2024
01:49:48,720 --> 01:49:52,200
Speaker 2: visited in one case they visited like Adam Lonza's house

2025
01:49:52,600 --> 01:49:55,599
Speaker 2: and the Sandy Hook Elementary School, and it's people visiting

2026
01:49:55,640 --> 01:49:58,240
Speaker 2: places like that, sites associated with like mass shootings and

2027
01:49:58,280 --> 01:50:01,040
Speaker 2: the like. And she gives this mix of people being like, oh,

2028
01:50:01,280 --> 01:50:02,920
Speaker 2: like the first person he quotes who went to lands

2029
01:50:02,960 --> 01:50:04,800
Speaker 2: of houses, like, I was actually just really sad and

2030
01:50:04,880 --> 01:50:07,320
Speaker 2: I just wish none of it had ever taken place,

2031
01:50:07,760 --> 01:50:09,680
Speaker 2: Like it was all really horrible and it made me

2032
01:50:09,760 --> 01:50:13,280
Speaker 2: feel bad. But then a bit later she gives you

2033
01:50:13,360 --> 01:50:16,760
Speaker 2: responses from people who have the opposite reaction, Like there's

2034
01:50:16,840 --> 01:50:20,720
Speaker 2: this fella Paul, who does not specify which murder site

2035
01:50:20,960 --> 01:50:23,240
Speaker 2: they visited, but specified that it was a place where

2036
01:50:23,240 --> 01:50:27,040
Speaker 2: a murder victim's body was found. And Paul responded, Honestly,

2037
01:50:27,120 --> 01:50:28,920
Speaker 2: I felt a static, like, Wow, I'm going to a

2038
01:50:28,960 --> 01:50:31,200
Speaker 2: place someone was killed. What if there are ghosts the

2039
01:50:31,280 --> 01:50:34,000
Speaker 2: murderer him or herself? I was absolutely off. My kid.

2040
01:50:34,320 --> 01:50:35,880
Speaker 2: We dug up some dirt and we keep it in

2041
01:50:35,920 --> 01:50:36,960
Speaker 2: a little glass bottle.

2042
01:50:37,280 --> 01:50:40,960
Speaker 12: It's like a religious pilgrimage, right right, And that's the static,

2043
01:50:41,040 --> 01:50:42,679
Speaker 12: and that's what this starts to document.

2044
01:50:42,920 --> 01:50:45,759
Speaker 2: And that's where I'm like, oh, this is this study

2045
01:50:45,840 --> 01:50:48,640
Speaker 2: is mostly about an unrelated just a normal fandom. But

2046
01:50:48,760 --> 01:50:51,560
Speaker 2: you can see the bits like already popping up in

2047
01:50:51,600 --> 01:50:55,320
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen, these people who are having these astatic almost

2048
01:50:55,320 --> 01:50:58,719
Speaker 2: again like almost like psychosexual experiences being at the site

2049
01:50:58,760 --> 01:50:59,599
Speaker 2: of a mass shooting.

2050
01:51:00,080 --> 01:51:02,439
Speaker 12: Yeah, and the further centry that is then doing one yourself.

2051
01:51:02,479 --> 01:51:04,760
Speaker 12: And obviously this also is like a part of like

2052
01:51:04,800 --> 01:51:07,280
Speaker 12: a suicidal drive, a suicidal attention. A lot of people

2053
01:51:07,360 --> 01:51:10,080
Speaker 12: kill themselves in the course of the act, right, it's

2054
01:51:10,080 --> 01:51:12,920
Speaker 12: a way of making your suicide not just be about yourself.

2055
01:51:13,360 --> 01:51:16,839
Speaker 2: Right. And there's more to say about like the culture

2056
01:51:16,920 --> 01:51:21,720
Speaker 2: of fame in this country and like how how virality

2057
01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:24,840
Speaker 2: and whatnot has made it so that like these people

2058
01:51:24,960 --> 01:51:27,479
Speaker 2: tend to get what they want, or at least they

2059
01:51:27,600 --> 01:51:30,080
Speaker 2: know they've got a good chance of getting what they want, right,

2060
01:51:30,280 --> 01:51:33,280
Speaker 2: they're obviously not around to experience it. But like, as

2061
01:51:33,320 --> 01:51:36,400
Speaker 2: long as you do something sufficiently like weird and bloody,

2062
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 2: you're likely to get a good amount of attention for

2063
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:39,519
Speaker 2: a while.

2064
01:51:40,479 --> 01:51:43,880
Speaker 12: So that's the actual like background of what this shooting was.

2065
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:46,160
Speaker 12: I think now we should probably mention how the shooting's

2066
01:51:46,200 --> 01:51:50,560
Speaker 12: being talked about more broadly, Yeah, because it takes a

2067
01:51:50,840 --> 01:51:54,919
Speaker 12: very different angle from the actual like nihilistic, like TCC

2068
01:51:55,600 --> 01:51:59,240
Speaker 12: fandom aspect. It it is making this more about like

2069
01:52:00,120 --> 01:52:02,839
Speaker 12: woke contemporary politics I suppose.

2070
01:52:03,080 --> 01:52:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2071
01:52:03,760 --> 01:52:07,240
Speaker 12: Cash Betel's announced that he's investigating this as an anti

2072
01:52:07,439 --> 01:52:08,599
Speaker 12: Catholic hate crime.

2073
01:52:09,200 --> 01:52:13,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is just not true. I mean, it's almost

2074
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:16,240
Speaker 2: certainly by a Catholic, ors somebody who was raised gath Like.

2075
01:52:16,439 --> 01:52:16,639
Speaker 6: Yeah.

2076
01:52:16,920 --> 01:52:19,799
Speaker 2: All the people who hate Catholics most are often lapsed Catholics.

2077
01:52:20,560 --> 01:52:23,760
Speaker 12: Very early on, people started claiming that this shooter was

2078
01:52:23,960 --> 01:52:27,320
Speaker 12: trans Now a few years ago, they did change their

2079
01:52:27,400 --> 01:52:30,680
Speaker 12: name to Robin, and the name change petition stated that

2080
01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:33,960
Speaker 12: at the time they identified as female. At this point,

2081
01:52:34,080 --> 01:52:38,240
Speaker 12: we still know very little about the actual shooter beyond

2082
01:52:38,360 --> 01:52:40,719
Speaker 12: like the videos they posted on YouTube of their weapons

2083
01:52:40,920 --> 01:52:45,000
Speaker 12: and a journal written in cyrillic and a note that

2084
01:52:45,120 --> 01:52:47,679
Speaker 12: they left to their parents discussing their fear of dying

2085
01:52:47,880 --> 01:52:50,920
Speaker 12: of cancer due to vaping. I've not been able to

2086
01:52:50,960 --> 01:52:53,760
Speaker 12: look at their Internet presence or activities in the intervening

2087
01:52:53,840 --> 01:52:57,759
Speaker 12: years since changing their name, and their current gender identity

2088
01:52:57,880 --> 01:53:01,519
Speaker 12: is still not very clear. In a translation of their

2089
01:53:01,760 --> 01:53:06,000
Speaker 12: cyrillic journal, they discuss detransition quote, I don't want to

2090
01:53:06,120 --> 01:53:09,000
Speaker 12: dress girly all the time, but I guess sometimes I

2091
01:53:09,160 --> 01:53:11,280
Speaker 12: really like it. I know I am not a woman,

2092
01:53:11,400 --> 01:53:14,559
Speaker 12: but I definitely don't feel like a man. I regret

2093
01:53:14,760 --> 01:53:18,080
Speaker 12: being trans. I wish I was a girl. I just

2094
01:53:18,320 --> 01:53:20,800
Speaker 12: know I cannot achieve that body with the technology we

2095
01:53:20,840 --> 01:53:24,360
Speaker 12: have today. I also can't afford that I only keep

2096
01:53:24,479 --> 01:53:27,679
Speaker 12: my long hair because it is pretty much my last

2097
01:53:27,800 --> 01:53:31,240
Speaker 12: shred of being trans. I'm tired of being trans. I

2098
01:53:31,360 --> 01:53:35,720
Speaker 12: wish I never brainwashed myself. I can't cut my hair now,

2099
01:53:35,920 --> 01:53:38,920
Speaker 12: as it would be an embarrassing defeat and it might

2100
01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:42,240
Speaker 12: be a concerning change of character that could get me reported.

2101
01:53:42,680 --> 01:53:45,839
Speaker 12: It just always gets in my way. I will probably

2102
01:53:45,960 --> 01:53:48,320
Speaker 12: chop it on the day of the attack.

2103
01:53:50,000 --> 01:53:50,160
Speaker 5: Now.

2104
01:53:50,320 --> 01:53:53,680
Speaker 12: Discussion of gender takes up a very small percentage of

2105
01:53:53,960 --> 01:53:56,920
Speaker 12: the journal. Most of their writing is about admiration for

2106
01:53:57,080 --> 01:54:01,040
Speaker 12: previous mass shooters and fantasizing about killing children from a

2107
01:54:01,200 --> 01:54:04,600
Speaker 12: very young age. On the cover of their journal, alongside

2108
01:54:04,640 --> 01:54:07,360
Speaker 12: a bunch of other like gun stickers, they do have

2109
01:54:07,600 --> 01:54:11,000
Speaker 12: a defend a quality progress flag sticker with an AK

2110
01:54:11,200 --> 01:54:14,639
Speaker 12: forty seven YEP. From my perspective, this is just another

2111
01:54:15,120 --> 01:54:18,320
Speaker 12: one of those memes that they're wrapping into everything. On

2112
01:54:18,520 --> 01:54:21,719
Speaker 12: one of their magazines. They wrote, I am the wokeler,

2113
01:54:22,000 --> 01:54:25,600
Speaker 12: why so queerious? Right on the other side of the

2114
01:54:25,960 --> 01:54:30,240
Speaker 12: magazine had an antiqueer slur. So I view this type

2115
01:54:30,280 --> 01:54:32,480
Speaker 12: of stuff in the same way I view the inclusion

2116
01:54:32,520 --> 01:54:35,280
Speaker 12: of like the Lost Meme or like Ted Kaczinski or

2117
01:54:35,360 --> 01:54:37,760
Speaker 12: all this other stuff. This this like memafied version of

2118
01:54:37,800 --> 01:54:40,560
Speaker 12: trying to throw everything at the wall just to make

2119
01:54:40,680 --> 01:54:44,720
Speaker 12: everything mean nothing right. And it's it's extremely like obnoxious

2120
01:54:44,760 --> 01:54:45,640
Speaker 12: and annoying.

2121
01:54:45,680 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 2: But it it works.

2122
01:54:47,360 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 12: But yeah, it works. And I don't know what else

2123
01:54:49,720 --> 01:54:52,200
Speaker 12: I want to say on this, on like the trends angle.

2124
01:54:52,280 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 2: We don't want to deny that like this is going

2125
01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:56,720
Speaker 2: to cause a problem, that this is going to be

2126
01:54:57,000 --> 01:54:59,480
Speaker 2: used by the right, Like there will be there will

2127
01:54:59,520 --> 01:55:03,240
Speaker 2: certainly be rhetoric. And I've already seen rhetoric from you know,

2128
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:05,360
Speaker 2: Jack Posobic in that crowd around it.

2129
01:55:05,320 --> 01:55:07,040
Speaker 12: About trans people targeting Catholics.

2130
01:55:07,080 --> 01:55:09,560
Speaker 2: Well, this is why these people shouldn't have weapons or whatever,

2131
01:55:09,880 --> 01:55:11,240
Speaker 2: like this is why we should put them all in.

2132
01:55:12,080 --> 01:55:14,280
Speaker 2: And I don't I'm not going to minimize that that

2133
01:55:14,480 --> 01:55:17,400
Speaker 2: didn't start with this, that that kind of rhetoric, that

2134
01:55:17,480 --> 01:55:20,440
Speaker 2: conversation and this is useful to that crowd, and you

2135
01:55:20,520 --> 01:55:23,200
Speaker 2: know that is that is bad. I don't we don't

2136
01:55:23,200 --> 01:55:26,160
Speaker 2: know what's going to happen or to what extent this is.

2137
01:55:26,360 --> 01:55:28,680
Speaker 2: Like we're talking right now that they clearly would like

2138
01:55:28,880 --> 01:55:33,040
Speaker 2: to use this and are trying to use this. One

2139
01:55:33,160 --> 01:55:35,520
Speaker 2: thing that I would point out, and I don't know

2140
01:55:35,560 --> 01:55:38,240
Speaker 2: if this is certainly not an on balance optimistic thing,

2141
01:55:38,400 --> 01:55:42,320
Speaker 2: but making Americans focus on a mass shooting for more

2142
01:55:42,360 --> 01:55:44,640
Speaker 2: than a day or two not as easy as it

2143
01:55:44,800 --> 01:55:45,160
Speaker 2: used to be.

2144
01:55:45,680 --> 01:55:49,400
Speaker 12: No, yeah, which is really devastating. It's not good that we're.

2145
01:55:49,280 --> 01:55:52,120
Speaker 2: There, but like two people dead, I'm just saying, like

2146
01:55:52,200 --> 01:55:56,240
Speaker 2: Americans ignore way bigger numbers all the time now the right,

2147
01:55:56,560 --> 01:56:00,320
Speaker 2: You know, there's not always a media campaign like going

2148
01:56:00,360 --> 01:56:02,600
Speaker 2: to be with this beyond trying to make this huge.

2149
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:05,840
Speaker 2: But also they've done that before, right, they did that

2150
01:56:06,000 --> 01:56:08,400
Speaker 2: with the rep Now shooting, right Like, there were attempts

2151
01:56:08,440 --> 01:56:10,120
Speaker 2: to make that and it didn't.

2152
01:56:10,360 --> 01:56:12,840
Speaker 12: Every mass shooting they have tried to pain it's been

2153
01:56:12,840 --> 01:56:14,560
Speaker 12: done by a transperson, and I think in some ways

2154
01:56:14,880 --> 01:56:18,480
Speaker 12: that has depowered this rhetoric as a tactic. Yeah, by

2155
01:56:18,520 --> 01:56:21,880
Speaker 12: claiming every shooter is trans. Most Republicans already believe that

2156
01:56:21,960 --> 01:56:24,600
Speaker 12: to be the case. So whether this person either was

2157
01:56:24,760 --> 01:56:27,880
Speaker 12: trans or used to be trans, it may not matter

2158
01:56:28,040 --> 01:56:31,520
Speaker 12: that much to the right because they already think every

2159
01:56:31,640 --> 01:56:35,360
Speaker 12: shooter is trans. Trump's already targeting queer people. The right

2160
01:56:35,400 --> 01:56:38,920
Speaker 12: doesn't need an excuse to go after queer people. I

2161
01:56:39,000 --> 01:56:41,720
Speaker 12: don't think an event like this will make the hammer

2162
01:56:41,840 --> 01:56:45,920
Speaker 12: come down much harder. This could be a boy who

2163
01:56:46,040 --> 01:56:50,440
Speaker 12: cried wolf situation for the anti trans right, since their

2164
01:56:50,480 --> 01:56:53,520
Speaker 12: base already thinks that every mass shooter from the past

2165
01:56:53,600 --> 01:56:57,400
Speaker 12: three years is trans. I did a whole episode on

2166
01:56:57,520 --> 01:57:01,240
Speaker 12: this last year, called fake trans Terrorists. The Gun Violence

2167
01:57:01,320 --> 01:57:04,040
Speaker 12: Archive says that there have been two hundred and eighty

2168
01:57:04,080 --> 01:57:06,200
Speaker 12: six mass shootings in the United States so far in

2169
01:57:06,240 --> 01:57:09,880
Speaker 12: twenty twenty five. If one or two trans people do

2170
01:57:10,000 --> 01:57:12,880
Speaker 12: a mass shooting, that would still mean trans people, at

2171
01:57:12,920 --> 01:57:15,440
Speaker 12: one percent of the population, are less likely to do

2172
01:57:15,520 --> 01:57:18,680
Speaker 12: a shooting compared to CIS people. There was like one

2173
01:57:18,800 --> 01:57:22,240
Speaker 12: legitimate trans mass shooting targeting a school a few years

2174
01:57:22,280 --> 01:57:25,520
Speaker 12: ago in Nashville, and if this happens to be the second,

2175
01:57:26,120 --> 01:57:29,960
Speaker 12: I don't think that this new brain Rod Columbine true

2176
01:57:30,000 --> 01:57:33,680
Speaker 12: crime community shooting will make much of an impact on

2177
01:57:33,800 --> 01:57:37,520
Speaker 12: trans people nationwide. Think of how quick conservatives moved on

2178
01:57:37,680 --> 01:57:41,120
Speaker 12: from the Zizians, and certainly being trans is not a

2179
01:57:41,240 --> 01:57:44,280
Speaker 12: motivating factor of this shooting. If you look at their

2180
01:57:44,320 --> 01:57:46,800
Speaker 12: writing and videos posted on YouTube before they did this,

2181
01:57:47,840 --> 01:57:53,000
Speaker 12: this nihilistic meme maximalism has no trans causation. It has

2182
01:57:53,040 --> 01:57:55,720
Speaker 12: nothing to do with being trans. There's no coherent or

2183
01:57:55,800 --> 01:57:59,960
Speaker 12: ideological leftist screed, there's no pronoun pins. Their journal talk

2184
01:58:00,160 --> 01:58:04,480
Speaker 12: both about quote unquote hating fascism and inequality, while also

2185
01:58:04,920 --> 01:58:10,360
Speaker 12: hating Jews, Arabs, Mexicans, Indians, calling Somali's subhuman and criminal,

2186
01:58:10,720 --> 01:58:14,080
Speaker 12: writing that quote white people should rule the world unquote,

2187
01:58:14,360 --> 01:58:18,360
Speaker 12: but that minorities should quoe unquote have rights. While talking

2188
01:58:18,440 --> 01:58:22,640
Speaker 12: about ideological Nazi killers, they remarked, quote, I don't often

2189
01:58:22,720 --> 01:58:27,120
Speaker 12: find myself aligning with these killers specific ideologies unquote. They

2190
01:58:27,200 --> 01:58:31,440
Speaker 12: said that they disliked racism but also were racist. They

2191
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:35,800
Speaker 12: wrote about killing quote unquote fags while also calling themself

2192
01:58:35,880 --> 01:58:39,280
Speaker 12: one on one of their weapons. This shooter and all

2193
01:58:39,360 --> 01:58:42,120
Speaker 12: the memes and rhetoric they use is most similar to

2194
01:58:42,240 --> 01:58:45,120
Speaker 12: the Repnow shooting last December in Wisconsin in terms of

2195
01:58:45,200 --> 01:58:49,400
Speaker 12: the neo Columbiner school shooter obsession, as well as the

2196
01:58:49,520 --> 01:58:54,120
Speaker 12: white supremacist mimetic black in cell shooting in Anoc, Tennessee,

2197
01:58:54,680 --> 01:58:59,400
Speaker 12: last January. All these shootings are heavily referential, contradictory, and

2198
01:58:59,600 --> 01:59:06,320
Speaker 12: intentionally incoherent. Right, every single extremist political faction is represented

2199
01:59:06,360 --> 01:59:09,200
Speaker 12: there because that that is the point, is combining all

2200
01:59:09,280 --> 01:59:13,240
Speaker 12: of these references to previous mass shooting. So they're incorporating

2201
01:59:13,560 --> 01:59:15,840
Speaker 12: everything they can and things that they just think are funny,

2202
01:59:15,920 --> 01:59:19,120
Speaker 12: like just a whole bunch of like meaningless memes.

2203
01:59:19,400 --> 01:59:19,600
Speaker 2: Yep.

2204
01:59:20,000 --> 01:59:23,520
Speaker 12: And that's vastly more important than whatever gender identity the

2205
01:59:23,520 --> 01:59:26,520
Speaker 12: shooter happens to have right now at this point in

2206
01:59:26,600 --> 01:59:27,400
Speaker 12: twenty twenty five.

2207
01:59:28,080 --> 01:59:31,440
Speaker 2: All right, Well, anyway, folks, there's going to be a

2208
01:59:31,480 --> 01:59:34,760
Speaker 2: lot of people going the sky is falling over what

2209
01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:37,400
Speaker 2: this is going to mean for people and how this

2210
01:59:37,560 --> 01:59:41,640
Speaker 2: is going to be used, And obviously this is terrible.

2211
01:59:41,680 --> 01:59:43,440
Speaker 2: I'm not telling you not to feel terrible about a

2212
01:59:43,520 --> 01:59:44,040
Speaker 2: mass shooting.

2213
01:59:44,120 --> 01:59:45,880
Speaker 12: You should feel bad about the actual mass shooting.

2214
01:59:46,040 --> 01:59:48,440
Speaker 2: You should feel bad about the mass shooting. The sky

2215
01:59:49,400 --> 01:59:52,360
Speaker 2: I mean, this guy's been falling, right, Yeah, Let's give

2216
01:59:52,400 --> 01:59:54,880
Speaker 2: this one a little bit to see if it makes

2217
01:59:54,920 --> 01:59:57,160
Speaker 2: the sky fall any faster or if in a week

2218
01:59:57,200 --> 01:59:59,000
Speaker 2: We're like, no, this guy's still falling at about the

2219
01:59:59,040 --> 02:00:03,080
Speaker 2: same rate, which isn't good. It's just what happens. It's

2220
02:00:03,120 --> 02:00:17,400
Speaker 2: where we are, all right, ads, and we're back.

2221
02:00:19,360 --> 02:00:22,160
Speaker 12: We can safely leave the brain rot in the previous

2222
02:00:22,200 --> 02:00:26,240
Speaker 12: section and now talk about something totally real. The economy.

2223
02:00:26,640 --> 02:00:29,000
Speaker 2: Yes, the economy which never kills people.

2224
02:00:29,600 --> 02:00:35,200
Speaker 7: Okay, so speaking of things that have never killed any one, eye,

2225
02:00:35,320 --> 02:00:38,040
Speaker 7: that's so not true. The Volkershaw killed so many people.

2226
02:00:38,520 --> 02:00:44,640
Speaker 7: But a very very critical rubicon was crossed on Monday

2227
02:00:44,720 --> 02:00:48,200
Speaker 7: of this week when Trump attempted to fire a member

2228
02:00:48,360 --> 02:00:52,240
Speaker 7: of the Federal Reserve Board, Lisa Cook. Now, Lisa Cook

2229
02:00:52,360 --> 02:00:57,360
Speaker 7: is refusing to step down under the fairly obvious justification

2230
02:00:57,560 --> 02:00:59,680
Speaker 7: that the president does not have the power to do this.

2231
02:01:00,000 --> 02:01:04,880
Speaker 7: Trump has been cooking a very weird thing, accusing her

2232
02:01:05,320 --> 02:01:08,760
Speaker 7: of mortgage fraud as a as a way to remove

2233
02:01:08,800 --> 02:01:12,120
Speaker 7: her from the Federal Reserve Board. But Trump does not

2234
02:01:12,960 --> 02:01:15,600
Speaker 7: have the power to do this. So we are in

2235
02:01:15,640 --> 02:01:20,760
Speaker 7: the midst effectively of a confrontation over this, where Lisa

2236
02:01:20,840 --> 02:01:26,520
Speaker 7: Cook has continued to just not actually leave her position

2237
02:01:26,560 --> 02:01:29,880
Speaker 7: at the Federal Reserve and is going to court. This

2238
02:01:30,280 --> 02:01:35,600
Speaker 7: is an extremely significant escalation of what up until this

2239
02:01:35,680 --> 02:01:39,520
Speaker 7: point had largely been a series of attacks on the

2240
02:01:39,600 --> 02:01:43,920
Speaker 7: Federal Reserve's governor, Jerom Powell. There are a few factors

2241
02:01:44,000 --> 02:01:46,240
Speaker 7: here that one of the most important things is Trump's

2242
02:01:46,280 --> 02:01:49,840
Speaker 7: anger over continuing high interest rates or sort of high

2243
02:01:49,880 --> 02:01:52,080
Speaker 7: interest rates. Trump wants to slash interest rates because he

2244
02:01:52,120 --> 02:01:55,280
Speaker 7: thinks it will make the economy grow more. Now, when

2245
02:01:55,320 --> 02:01:58,400
Speaker 7: I said this was the crossing of the rubicon, what

2246
02:01:58,720 --> 02:02:01,680
Speaker 7: this is is this is the beginning of the fight

2247
02:02:01,880 --> 02:02:04,680
Speaker 7: over whether the Federal Reserve is going to be an

2248
02:02:04,760 --> 02:02:08,480
Speaker 7: independent density right. Trump has been attempting to, as we've

2249
02:02:08,480 --> 02:02:11,360
Speaker 7: talked about in the show, appoints Stephan Miran as another

2250
02:02:11,480 --> 02:02:15,680
Speaker 7: one of the governors on the Federal Reserve's board. Miran

2251
02:02:16,040 --> 02:02:19,200
Speaker 7: very explicitly wants to eliminate the independence of the Federal

2252
02:02:19,280 --> 02:02:21,520
Speaker 7: Reserve for what to talk about exactly what that means

2253
02:02:22,040 --> 02:02:24,720
Speaker 7: in a second, But I want to read this quote

2254
02:02:24,800 --> 02:02:29,200
Speaker 7: from Fortune magazine interport on it describing a JP Morgan

2255
02:02:29,360 --> 02:02:36,240
Speaker 7: analysis of the situation, because this has really spooked a

2256
02:02:36,320 --> 02:02:39,760
Speaker 7: bunch of major financial institutions for very obvious reasons. Quote

2257
02:02:40,400 --> 02:02:43,040
Speaker 7: in a note on Friday, JP Morgan analysts, led by

2258
02:02:43,120 --> 02:02:47,240
Speaker 7: chief economists Bruce Cassman highlighted key proposals such as giving

2259
02:02:47,360 --> 02:02:51,080
Speaker 7: atwill power to the President to fire FED board members

2260
02:02:51,240 --> 02:02:55,920
Speaker 7: and fedbank presidents, giving Congress control of the Fed's operating budget,

2261
02:02:56,320 --> 02:03:00,480
Speaker 7: and shifting the Fed's regulatory responsibility over banks and markets

2262
02:03:00,520 --> 02:03:04,080
Speaker 7: to the Treasury. So this is what Stefan Mihern has

2263
02:03:04,200 --> 02:03:07,680
Speaker 7: been proposing. This is what looks to be the long

2264
02:03:07,840 --> 02:03:11,400
Speaker 7: term plan of Trump and the people around him. Eliminating

2265
02:03:11,440 --> 02:03:14,320
Speaker 7: the Federal Reserve is a long, long time goal of

2266
02:03:15,560 --> 02:03:20,040
Speaker 7: the far right for an extremely convoluted variety of reasons.

2267
02:03:20,840 --> 02:03:24,280
Speaker 7: The FED in and of itself is an extremely confusing entity.

2268
02:03:25,000 --> 02:03:29,080
Speaker 7: Its creation has spawns a full century of academic arguments

2269
02:03:29,120 --> 02:03:33,520
Speaker 7: about what the States even is, and it's complicated to describe.

2270
02:03:33,920 --> 02:03:36,080
Speaker 7: Also because most of the information will not most, but

2271
02:03:36,680 --> 02:03:39,080
Speaker 7: a significant portion of the information about it is just

2272
02:03:39,120 --> 02:03:43,280
Speaker 7: anti Semitic conspiracy. Because this is eliminating the Federal Reserve.

2273
02:03:43,320 --> 02:03:45,840
Speaker 7: In the return to quote unquote sound money is one

2274
02:03:45,880 --> 02:03:50,360
Speaker 7: of the key elements of a massive network of sort

2275
02:03:50,400 --> 02:03:53,720
Speaker 7: of right wing, very old right wing conspiracy theories. But

2276
02:03:53,960 --> 02:03:56,800
Speaker 7: I think that the thing that's best understood by people

2277
02:03:57,000 --> 02:03:58,920
Speaker 7: kind of is just about the Federal Reserve is the

2278
02:03:58,960 --> 02:04:01,680
Speaker 7: FED printer meme. And the Federal Reserve is the body

2279
02:04:01,880 --> 02:04:05,720
Speaker 7: that creates money like that is, that is authorized to

2280
02:04:05,720 --> 02:04:07,360
Speaker 7: create the US dollar. That is why it's a Federal

2281
02:04:07,400 --> 02:04:12,800
Speaker 7: Reserve bank. It is critical on a level that is

2282
02:04:13,240 --> 02:04:19,040
Speaker 7: difficult to express to the entire functioning of the world economy. Now,

2283
02:04:19,160 --> 02:04:22,200
Speaker 7: the Federal Reserve Board is technically a government entity, but

2284
02:04:22,400 --> 02:04:26,320
Speaker 7: it is it was set up explicitly to be quote

2285
02:04:26,400 --> 02:04:29,320
Speaker 7: unquote non political. Now the extent to which that's true

2286
02:04:29,440 --> 02:04:34,160
Speaker 7: is fuzzy, obviously, But the point of it was so

2287
02:04:34,280 --> 02:04:36,800
Speaker 7: that there would be a large scale financial institution that

2288
02:04:36,880 --> 02:04:42,040
Speaker 7: controls like the money supply effectively, that that controls enormous

2289
02:04:42,120 --> 02:04:46,320
Speaker 7: portions of US sort of macroeconomics policy through its due

2290
02:04:46,360 --> 02:04:50,800
Speaker 7: is control of interest rates would not be able to

2291
02:04:50,920 --> 02:04:54,440
Speaker 7: be like directly interfered with by the President or Congress.

2292
02:04:55,120 --> 02:04:56,680
Speaker 7: That is that it's the whole point of this, you know.

2293
02:04:56,760 --> 02:04:59,600
Speaker 7: It is effectively a measure to instill confidence that the

2294
02:04:59,720 --> 02:05:01,800
Speaker 7: US isn't going to just like turn the printers on

2295
02:05:01,920 --> 02:05:04,600
Speaker 7: and print a bunch of money from every other capitalist

2296
02:05:04,640 --> 02:05:05,040
Speaker 7: in the world.

2297
02:05:05,840 --> 02:05:09,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like so much. When that promise goes away,

2298
02:05:09,600 --> 02:05:11,080
Speaker 2: what happens, I don't know.

2299
02:05:11,600 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 7: Yeah, Well, and this is something that I think, I

2300
02:05:14,560 --> 02:05:15,720
Speaker 7: think is not understood very well.

2301
02:05:15,800 --> 02:05:15,880
Speaker 4: Right.

2302
02:05:15,960 --> 02:05:20,040
Speaker 7: The current conflict is largely over Trump wanting to be

2303
02:05:20,080 --> 02:05:24,120
Speaker 7: able to control the Federal reserves interest rates. Right, So

2304
02:05:24,320 --> 02:05:26,120
Speaker 7: he wants he wants the lower federal interest rates to

2305
02:05:26,160 --> 02:05:28,080
Speaker 7: make it make it cheaper to borrow money because he

2306
02:05:28,120 --> 02:05:30,000
Speaker 7: thinks this will pump more money back into the economy

2307
02:05:30,000 --> 02:05:31,640
Speaker 7: and this will make the economy grow. And he thinks

2308
02:05:31,680 --> 02:05:33,760
Speaker 7: that he's being like sabotaged by the Fed. The Fed's

2309
02:05:34,640 --> 02:05:38,560
Speaker 7: worried about inflation. But I actually think that focusing just

2310
02:05:38,720 --> 02:05:43,080
Speaker 7: on that part of the Federal Reserve is significantly underestimating

2311
02:05:43,200 --> 02:05:48,040
Speaker 7: how important the Federal Reserve is to the entire structure

2312
02:05:48,480 --> 02:05:52,240
Speaker 7: of the economy. There are so many just sort of

2313
02:05:53,040 --> 02:05:57,000
Speaker 7: random things that it does that are not particularly well understood.

2314
02:05:57,000 --> 02:05:58,960
Speaker 7: I was talking about this earlier in a meeting, but

2315
02:06:00,080 --> 02:06:03,560
Speaker 7: nificant portion of the gold held by countries around the

2316
02:06:03,640 --> 02:06:05,760
Speaker 7: world is literally just kept in a vault under the

2317
02:06:05,800 --> 02:06:08,840
Speaker 7: New York Federal Reserve building. And that's just the sort

2318
02:06:08,840 --> 02:06:11,280
Speaker 7: of seemingly random thing that it does. I was reading

2319
02:06:11,320 --> 02:06:14,120
Speaker 7: about its payment system for reasons that I'll talk about

2320
02:06:14,200 --> 02:06:16,240
Speaker 7: in the episode to do about this next week. It

2321
02:06:16,400 --> 02:06:19,680
Speaker 7: just in a footnote about the payment system, there is

2322
02:06:19,840 --> 02:06:22,760
Speaker 7: a part where it says that the Federal Reserve runs

2323
02:06:22,840 --> 02:06:26,080
Speaker 7: the payment system for the World Bank. So this is

2324
02:06:26,160 --> 02:06:32,480
Speaker 7: something that is a critical, critical, an extremely complicated center

2325
02:06:32,680 --> 02:06:34,800
Speaker 7: of the entire capitalist world.

2326
02:06:35,040 --> 02:06:35,200
Speaker 5: Right.

2327
02:06:35,760 --> 02:06:38,800
Speaker 7: Its payment infrastructure has trillions of dollars a year and

2328
02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:45,720
Speaker 7: moving through it. If this infrastructure stops working or breaks

2329
02:06:45,840 --> 02:06:48,919
Speaker 7: a little bit, a lot of the very subtle management

2330
02:06:49,000 --> 02:06:52,280
Speaker 7: of the economy of the Federal Reserve does can stop working.

2331
02:06:52,440 --> 02:06:55,280
Speaker 7: And you know, again we've been talking mostly about interest

2332
02:06:55,320 --> 02:06:57,760
Speaker 7: rates and its ability to sort of print money, which

2333
02:06:57,840 --> 02:07:00,480
Speaker 7: is over simplification. But you know, for exameple the Fed

2334
02:07:00,560 --> 02:07:03,800
Speaker 7: also does these things like carries out these like massive

2335
02:07:03,960 --> 02:07:08,080
Speaker 7: overnight repo agreements, like inject liquidity into the market. There's

2336
02:07:08,160 --> 02:07:10,360
Speaker 7: all of these massive we are talking billions and billions

2337
02:07:10,400 --> 02:07:13,320
Speaker 7: of dollars of financial interventions that you basically never even

2338
02:07:13,400 --> 02:07:17,080
Speaker 7: hear about that have been stabilizing the economy since two

2339
02:07:17,080 --> 02:07:21,600
Speaker 7: thousand and eight. And this apparatus, if it is dismantled,

2340
02:07:21,680 --> 02:07:25,280
Speaker 7: if it has directly seized control of by Trump, and

2341
02:07:25,480 --> 02:07:27,160
Speaker 7: and part of what's going on with this board is

2342
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:29,720
Speaker 7: that Trump is trying to get a majority of the

2343
02:07:29,800 --> 02:07:32,120
Speaker 7: people on the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve

2344
02:07:32,480 --> 02:07:34,800
Speaker 7: to be his appointment so that he can control it directly,

2345
02:07:35,480 --> 02:07:37,480
Speaker 7: and so they can start bringing it under directly under

2346
02:07:37,480 --> 02:07:42,440
Speaker 7: the control of I mean the president effectively. Right, this

2347
02:07:43,160 --> 02:07:46,320
Speaker 7: is something where if you unleash the doge people on

2348
02:07:47,120 --> 02:07:51,480
Speaker 7: the Federal Reserve and the payment systems, the settlements and

2349
02:07:51,560 --> 02:07:56,320
Speaker 7: clearance systems stop working. We are talking about a catastrophe

2350
02:07:57,040 --> 02:07:59,640
Speaker 7: that it's unclear to me whether it's even been modeled.

2351
02:08:00,280 --> 02:08:04,000
Speaker 7: There are so many different complicated things that this institution

2352
02:08:04,160 --> 02:08:08,400
Speaker 7: does that these people do not understand particularly well at

2353
02:08:08,400 --> 02:08:11,240
Speaker 7: all and think that they can use to just sort

2354
02:08:11,280 --> 02:08:14,160
Speaker 7: of permanently create a bubble economy that they can ride.

2355
02:08:15,000 --> 02:08:17,680
Speaker 7: And this is the first sort of shot over the battle.

2356
02:08:17,680 --> 02:08:20,040
Speaker 7: Isn't even the right where this is the first engagement

2357
02:08:20,120 --> 02:08:22,360
Speaker 7: over the fight for that. There's also been a lot

2358
02:08:22,360 --> 02:08:25,240
Speaker 7: of sort of taco analysis of this, arguing that this

2359
02:08:25,360 --> 02:08:27,560
Speaker 7: is actually Trump backing down from trying to fire Jerom

2360
02:08:27,600 --> 02:08:29,720
Speaker 7: Powell to just try to fire one of the Reserve

2361
02:08:29,800 --> 02:08:33,600
Speaker 7: board members that's not backing down. There's also a chance

2362
02:08:33,640 --> 02:08:35,200
Speaker 7: to heal that if this works, he's going to try

2363
02:08:35,240 --> 02:08:37,960
Speaker 7: to fire Powell too. So we're going to We're gonna

2364
02:08:38,000 --> 02:08:39,680
Speaker 7: keep watching a situation. I'm going to talk more about

2365
02:08:39,680 --> 02:08:41,360
Speaker 7: it next week when we know more, and also talk

2366
02:08:41,400 --> 02:08:44,920
Speaker 7: about what the Federal Reserve is as an institution. And

2367
02:08:45,120 --> 02:08:47,520
Speaker 7: we're going to continue monitoring the situation because it is

2368
02:08:48,320 --> 02:08:51,960
Speaker 7: extremely important and handing the keys over to these people

2369
02:08:52,120 --> 02:08:54,360
Speaker 7: is something that is dangerous enough that it is creating

2370
02:08:54,360 --> 02:08:58,520
Speaker 7: significant pushback among the actual people in finance and in

2371
02:08:58,560 --> 02:08:59,560
Speaker 7: the banking system who matter.

2372
02:09:00,120 --> 02:09:05,520
Speaker 2: Great, Well, it's so good. I mean, we'll see if

2373
02:09:05,600 --> 02:09:09,920
Speaker 2: this means anything other than more suffering for you know people.

2374
02:09:10,440 --> 02:09:13,040
Speaker 2: I guess that's where I am as like, is there

2375
02:09:13,120 --> 02:09:14,960
Speaker 2: even a level of fucking with the money that Trump

2376
02:09:15,040 --> 02:09:18,960
Speaker 2: can do that that's enough to seriously cause consequences for him?

2377
02:09:19,120 --> 02:09:21,960
Speaker 2: And there must be, but it's just hard to imagine

2378
02:09:22,160 --> 02:09:22,880
Speaker 2: if there was.

2379
02:09:23,040 --> 02:09:23,400
Speaker 7: It's this.

2380
02:09:24,160 --> 02:09:27,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll see. I mean, that's the fun thing with

2381
02:09:28,080 --> 02:09:31,000
Speaker 2: the big stories we've got this week is they're all like, well,

2382
02:09:31,680 --> 02:09:34,080
Speaker 2: could get a lot worse, could just stay as bad

2383
02:09:34,120 --> 02:09:37,120
Speaker 2: as it is right now. Well, we'll continue to wait

2384
02:09:37,200 --> 02:09:38,720
Speaker 2: to see what's going to happen with all of that.

2385
02:09:39,120 --> 02:09:41,320
Speaker 2: Speaking of something that we don't have to just wait

2386
02:09:41,600 --> 02:09:44,840
Speaker 2: and wonder what's going to go on, because the news

2387
02:09:44,960 --> 02:09:47,720
Speaker 2: changes every single week. Here's the tariff.

2388
02:09:47,480 --> 02:10:02,760
Speaker 1: Songs Jazz Bob Rock, Jazz, bo.

2389
02:10:04,360 --> 02:10:07,720
Speaker 7: Oh boy so and yet another instance of the whole

2390
02:10:07,800 --> 02:10:13,080
Speaker 7: Trump backing down thing not happening. The tariffs on India

2391
02:10:13,160 --> 02:10:15,720
Speaker 7: that Trump had been threatening for the purchases of Russian

2392
02:10:15,800 --> 02:10:18,160
Speaker 7: oil have in fact taken effect. The terriff right on

2393
02:10:18,240 --> 02:10:23,360
Speaker 7: India is now fifty percent. This is a significant barrier

2394
02:10:23,480 --> 02:10:26,840
Speaker 7: to any trade between India and the US. It is

2395
02:10:27,440 --> 02:10:29,800
Speaker 7: again sort of unclear whether India is going to bow

2396
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:33,040
Speaker 7: to the political pressure here because as with many of

2397
02:10:33,160 --> 02:10:36,000
Speaker 7: these terriffts. We've talked about this situation with Brazil fairly

2398
02:10:36,040 --> 02:10:39,720
Speaker 7: extensively on this show. The thing about imposing tariffs on

2399
02:10:39,800 --> 02:10:44,240
Speaker 7: a country to get them to fall in line with

2400
02:10:44,360 --> 02:10:46,880
Speaker 7: the American policy is that it pisses off everyone in

2401
02:10:46,960 --> 02:10:49,320
Speaker 7: the country, regardless of whether or not they would traditionally

2402
02:10:49,360 --> 02:10:52,280
Speaker 7: be US allies. And so there's you know, it creates

2403
02:10:52,320 --> 02:10:56,600
Speaker 7: a massive countervailing pressure against the financial incentive to fall

2404
02:10:56,680 --> 02:11:01,360
Speaker 7: in line and stop buying Russian oil. I also, very

2405
02:11:01,480 --> 02:11:04,520
Speaker 7: briefly want to talk about something that I think is

2406
02:11:04,600 --> 02:11:06,800
Speaker 7: a sort of part and parcel of the tariff policy

2407
02:11:07,400 --> 02:11:09,400
Speaker 7: that Garson you mentually want to talk about, which is

2408
02:11:09,680 --> 02:11:11,720
Speaker 7: like the US purchasing ten percent of Intel.

2409
02:11:12,440 --> 02:11:14,400
Speaker 12: Yes, socialism has been achieved.

2410
02:11:14,520 --> 02:11:14,880
Speaker 2: We did it.

2411
02:11:15,360 --> 02:11:15,720
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

2412
02:11:16,360 --> 02:11:19,520
Speaker 12: Now you can finally call Trump a national socialist.

2413
02:11:20,120 --> 02:11:20,560
Speaker 2: That's right.

2414
02:11:22,000 --> 02:11:25,320
Speaker 7: Yeah, And this is sort of a intensification, I guess

2415
02:11:25,400 --> 02:11:27,200
Speaker 7: of a agree that we talked about a while back

2416
02:11:27,840 --> 02:11:31,440
Speaker 7: where Intel was talking about giving part of its profits

2417
02:11:31,480 --> 02:11:35,160
Speaker 7: to the US. This is just the US government is

2418
02:11:35,360 --> 02:11:37,680
Speaker 7: just buying a stake in these companies. And this is

2419
02:11:37,720 --> 02:11:41,720
Speaker 7: actually a very very weird maneuver by the US because

2420
02:11:41,760 --> 02:11:45,960
Speaker 7: the US has obviously bought companies before, right, this is

2421
02:11:46,000 --> 02:11:48,440
Speaker 7: how a lot of the bailout worked. But the thing

2422
02:11:48,520 --> 02:11:52,200
Speaker 7: about if you look at the bailouts from two thousand

2423
02:11:52,200 --> 02:11:53,640
Speaker 7: and eight and you look at the US like purchasing

2424
02:11:53,640 --> 02:11:57,160
Speaker 7: the automakers, the US got these really weird specific shares

2425
02:11:57,200 --> 02:12:00,240
Speaker 7: that don't give any kind of controlling interest and are

2426
02:12:00,320 --> 02:12:02,760
Speaker 7: the direct rationale for this that the US should just

2427
02:12:03,440 --> 02:12:07,160
Speaker 7: own part of the chip manufacturers because they're effectively like

2428
02:12:07,240 --> 02:12:11,040
Speaker 7: domestic national security resources. Significant portions of the market think

2429
02:12:11,160 --> 02:12:13,240
Speaker 7: that this is going to be a continuing tread and

2430
02:12:13,280 --> 02:12:16,680
Speaker 7: the US is going to continue buying stakes in these companies.

2431
02:12:16,760 --> 02:12:18,800
Speaker 7: There is a sort of symbiotic relationship here in the

2432
02:12:18,880 --> 02:12:21,400
Speaker 7: sense that, like, on the one hand, it's obviously not

2433
02:12:21,520 --> 02:12:24,800
Speaker 7: great to have sort of stakes in you bought by

2434
02:12:25,280 --> 02:12:29,040
Speaker 7: the US governments and have US government federal policy directly

2435
02:12:29,120 --> 02:12:33,480
Speaker 7: dictating what these companies do. But on the other hand,

2436
02:12:34,440 --> 02:12:37,400
Speaker 7: it creates for these actual companies themselves, It creates a

2437
02:12:37,480 --> 02:12:42,120
Speaker 7: sort of symbiosis right where these people now have effectively

2438
02:12:42,200 --> 02:12:45,680
Speaker 7: guaranteed state backing that can bail them out of all

2439
02:12:45,760 --> 02:12:50,280
Speaker 7: of their unbelievably terrible business decisions around basing all of

2440
02:12:50,320 --> 02:12:54,040
Speaker 7: their production around AI. So yeah, and this is all

2441
02:12:54,080 --> 02:12:59,600
Speaker 7: sort of part of the same hypernationalists direct national socialism,

2442
02:12:59,640 --> 02:13:06,240
Speaker 7: if you will. Yes, kind of natural sentence, but.

2443
02:13:06,360 --> 02:13:08,360
Speaker 12: The most stupid form we've ever seen.

2444
02:13:08,480 --> 02:13:08,640
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2445
02:13:08,920 --> 02:13:11,240
Speaker 7: Yeah, I don't know. There's gonna be a lot of

2446
02:13:11,320 --> 02:13:14,400
Speaker 7: hype about this being like American state capitalism or something,

2447
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:18,000
Speaker 7: and I just ignore that, just just ignore it. It's bad.

2448
02:13:18,320 --> 02:13:21,880
Speaker 7: I think it's it's in the same category as a

2449
02:13:21,960 --> 02:13:23,720
Speaker 7: lot of the things here, which is that Trump administration

2450
02:13:23,800 --> 02:13:26,919
Speaker 7: is trying to consolidate as much power over the economy

2451
02:13:26,960 --> 02:13:29,280
Speaker 7: as they can, both in Federal Reserve and through just

2452
02:13:29,440 --> 02:13:33,160
Speaker 7: straight up taking controlling parts of companies. This is a

2453
02:13:33,240 --> 02:13:35,600
Speaker 7: trend that's going to continue, and it's not good.

2454
02:13:35,920 --> 02:13:36,680
Speaker 12: Do you know what is good?

2455
02:13:36,720 --> 02:13:36,920
Speaker 5: Though?

2456
02:13:37,320 --> 02:13:41,600
Speaker 12: You beat me to that exactly, that's right. The fact

2457
02:13:41,640 --> 02:13:44,680
Speaker 12: that we get a nice ninety to to I don't know,

2458
02:13:44,680 --> 02:13:47,320
Speaker 12: one hundred and twenty second break to listen to these ads.

2459
02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:02,560
Speaker 12: All right, we are back. There has just been so

2460
02:14:02,680 --> 02:14:05,880
Speaker 12: much news this week. It's kind of outrageous. Trump is

2461
02:14:05,880 --> 02:14:11,080
Speaker 12: continuing his attacks against the Smithsonian for going woke. He's

2462
02:14:11,120 --> 02:14:14,320
Speaker 12: promised a Department of Justice lawsuit against California for their

2463
02:14:14,400 --> 02:14:18,080
Speaker 12: new redistricting map. A GOP house probe has begun to

2464
02:14:18,200 --> 02:14:21,760
Speaker 12: investigate if the DC crime stats have been faked this

2465
02:14:21,840 --> 02:14:24,320
Speaker 12: whole time, making it look like crime is low even

2466
02:14:24,360 --> 02:14:27,000
Speaker 12: though it's obviously super high as we all know. Yeah,

2467
02:14:28,080 --> 02:14:30,760
Speaker 12: as Mia said, we have socialism now with ten percent

2468
02:14:30,800 --> 02:14:34,760
Speaker 12: of intel and Trump and Hague says announced that they

2469
02:14:34,840 --> 02:14:37,320
Speaker 12: want to change the name of the Department of Defense

2470
02:14:37,640 --> 02:14:40,920
Speaker 12: back to the Department of War because it quote unquote

2471
02:14:41,160 --> 02:14:42,480
Speaker 12: sounds stronger.

2472
02:14:43,040 --> 02:14:46,160
Speaker 2: Hey, guys, this is this is the.

2473
02:14:46,240 --> 02:14:48,560
Speaker 9: Only one of those that I that I actually agree with.

2474
02:14:48,720 --> 02:14:51,760
Speaker 7: They should do this, like calling it anything other than

2475
02:14:51,840 --> 02:14:54,440
Speaker 7: the Department of war is incredibly dishonest.

2476
02:14:54,800 --> 02:14:57,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder that I'll make get a harder short

2477
02:14:57,080 --> 02:14:59,160
Speaker 2: of get people on board increasing funding.

2478
02:15:00,000 --> 02:15:02,680
Speaker 16: He used to be called the Department of War, and

2479
02:15:03,600 --> 02:15:06,480
Speaker 16: it had a stronger sound. And as you know, we

2480
02:15:06,560 --> 02:15:09,120
Speaker 16: won World War One, we won World War two, we

2481
02:15:09,200 --> 02:15:09,839
Speaker 16: won everything.

2482
02:15:10,400 --> 02:15:14,120
Speaker 17: Now we have a Department of Defense with defenders. I

2483
02:15:14,200 --> 02:15:17,080
Speaker 17: don't know if you people want to standing behind me,

2484
02:15:17,120 --> 02:15:18,520
Speaker 17: if you take a little vote, if you want to

2485
02:15:18,600 --> 02:15:20,680
Speaker 17: change it back to what it was when we used

2486
02:15:20,720 --> 02:15:21,600
Speaker 17: to win wars.

2487
02:15:21,320 --> 02:15:22,680
Speaker 9: All the time, that's okay with me.

2488
02:15:23,000 --> 02:15:24,000
Speaker 13: All right, that's coming.

2489
02:15:24,160 --> 02:15:26,040
Speaker 16: You let me know if you want to do it.

2490
02:15:26,160 --> 02:15:28,160
Speaker 16: I think Department of War. It just sounded me and

2491
02:15:28,240 --> 02:15:30,320
Speaker 16: he said, sir, behalf of the Department of Defense.

2492
02:15:30,440 --> 02:15:30,839
Speaker 7: Defense.

2493
02:15:31,760 --> 02:15:34,720
Speaker 16: I don't want to be defense only. We want defense,

2494
02:15:34,800 --> 02:15:37,440
Speaker 16: but we want offense too, If that's okay, So you'll

2495
02:15:37,520 --> 02:15:38,280
Speaker 16: make a decision.

2496
02:15:38,360 --> 02:15:42,960
Speaker 17: But you know, as Department of War, we won everything.

2497
02:15:43,800 --> 02:15:46,240
Speaker 16: We want everything, and I think we're going to have

2498
02:15:46,280 --> 02:15:47,000
Speaker 16: to go back to that.

2499
02:15:47,840 --> 02:15:50,680
Speaker 12: All right, man, cool stuff happening in the uffal office.

2500
02:15:51,120 --> 02:15:54,560
Speaker 2: I mean, I do like that when he starts that speech,

2501
02:15:54,720 --> 02:15:56,720
Speaker 2: he has to go like we won World War one,

2502
02:15:57,160 --> 02:15:58,720
Speaker 2: Like he's like, there's a question at the end there

2503
02:15:58,760 --> 02:16:04,480
Speaker 2: where he's like he's he's like, he's like, just make sure.

2504
02:16:05,400 --> 02:16:05,720
Speaker 1: I don't know.

2505
02:16:05,920 --> 02:16:07,800
Speaker 2: I don't really remember if we won that one or not,

2506
02:16:07,920 --> 02:16:10,160
Speaker 2: but we definitely won the second one and others.

2507
02:16:11,400 --> 02:16:13,760
Speaker 12: When as to how he would go about change the name,

2508
02:16:13,920 --> 02:16:16,560
Speaker 12: as it requires an Act of Congress, Trump replied to quote,

2509
02:16:17,040 --> 02:16:19,760
Speaker 12: We're just gonna do it. I'm sure Congress would go

2510
02:16:19,880 --> 02:16:22,480
Speaker 12: along if we need that. I don't think we even

2511
02:16:22,560 --> 02:16:25,360
Speaker 12: need that, But if we need that, I'm sure Congress

2512
02:16:25,440 --> 02:16:26,160
Speaker 12: will go along.

2513
02:16:26,360 --> 02:16:28,360
Speaker 2: I don't know that we do we need I don't know.

2514
02:16:28,480 --> 02:16:30,800
Speaker 2: If what you need to change the name of the

2515
02:16:30,880 --> 02:16:34,720
Speaker 2: Department of Defense, you do, Yeah, you do. That makes

2516
02:16:34,800 --> 02:16:35,520
Speaker 2: sense to do that.

2517
02:16:36,160 --> 02:16:37,160
Speaker 7: Auto macro sense.

2518
02:16:37,280 --> 02:16:37,400
Speaker 17: Right.

2519
02:16:37,480 --> 02:16:40,000
Speaker 7: What Trump is suggesting here is wouldn't wouldn't it simply

2520
02:16:40,080 --> 02:16:42,480
Speaker 7: be more efficient if there was simply a fearer, a

2521
02:16:43,080 --> 02:16:44,840
Speaker 7: single person to make all the decisions?

2522
02:16:45,200 --> 02:16:47,200
Speaker 12: He said a lot of things in that vein recently,

2523
02:16:47,360 --> 02:16:52,160
Speaker 12: is like Congress being more of a symbolic, symbolic branch

2524
02:16:52,240 --> 02:16:55,080
Speaker 12: of government that if if we need them, they'll probably

2525
02:16:55,160 --> 02:16:55,800
Speaker 12: just agree with me.

2526
02:16:55,920 --> 02:16:56,480
Speaker 7: But like we don't.

2527
02:16:56,560 --> 02:16:58,879
Speaker 2: Really that's your standard dictator stuff.

2528
02:16:59,240 --> 02:17:02,200
Speaker 12: That's how he's been talking about it recently now. Earlier

2529
02:17:02,240 --> 02:17:06,240
Speaker 12: this week, a redacted transcript of Gillaine Maxwell Gillan Jizline

2530
02:17:06,280 --> 02:17:09,720
Speaker 12: Maxwell's meeting with Trump's DOJ has been released, where she

2531
02:17:09,879 --> 02:17:14,000
Speaker 12: denied that she ever witnessed President Trump engage inappropriate behavior, saying, quote,

2532
02:17:14,320 --> 02:17:16,840
Speaker 12: I actually never saw the President in any type of

2533
02:17:16,920 --> 02:17:19,960
Speaker 12: massage setting. The President was never inappropriate with anybody, and

2534
02:17:20,160 --> 02:17:21,800
Speaker 12: the times that I was with him, he was a

2535
02:17:21,879 --> 02:17:25,920
Speaker 12: gentleman in all respects unquote. She also denied allegations that

2536
02:17:26,000 --> 02:17:28,480
Speaker 12: Prince Andrew ever had sex with a minor in her home,

2537
02:17:29,240 --> 02:17:32,000
Speaker 12: saying that a substantiating photograph is quote unquote fake.

2538
02:17:32,160 --> 02:17:34,920
Speaker 2: Well, I can't imagine why she'd lie, and.

2539
02:17:35,160 --> 02:17:37,960
Speaker 12: Also claimed that there is no Epstein quote unquote client

2540
02:17:38,120 --> 02:17:40,760
Speaker 12: lest So yeah, that all about wraps that up. I

2541
02:17:40,879 --> 02:17:44,080
Speaker 12: think we got to the bottom of the whole Epstein case.

2542
02:17:44,400 --> 02:17:45,720
Speaker 12: We don't need to worry about this anymore.

2543
02:17:46,520 --> 02:17:48,160
Speaker 2: I would say, of all of those, the one of

2544
02:17:48,200 --> 02:17:50,440
Speaker 2: those that I might have believed before she denied it

2545
02:17:50,600 --> 02:17:53,320
Speaker 2: was that there wasn't an additional client list outside of

2546
02:17:53,480 --> 02:17:55,480
Speaker 2: what we've already seen, like his black we bele O. Well, yeah,

2547
02:17:55,480 --> 02:17:58,080
Speaker 2: I wouldn't surprised if they didn't keep all of that

2548
02:17:58,280 --> 02:17:59,960
Speaker 2: many notes on a criminal conspiracy.

2549
02:18:00,480 --> 02:18:02,000
Speaker 12: Yeah, I don't think there's a list of being like,

2550
02:18:02,120 --> 02:18:04,480
Speaker 12: here's all of my pedophile friends in one place.

2551
02:18:04,560 --> 02:18:07,160
Speaker 2: Here's what does make me wonder now, and this really

2552
02:18:07,240 --> 02:18:09,360
Speaker 2: is the first time I am which is that they

2553
02:18:09,400 --> 02:18:11,160
Speaker 2: clearly came to her with a list of here is

2554
02:18:11,200 --> 02:18:14,320
Speaker 2: all of the things you need to say you didn't see, like.

2555
02:18:14,560 --> 02:18:17,440
Speaker 12: Maybe or she's just savvy enough to know what to say,

2556
02:18:17,480 --> 02:18:19,400
Speaker 12: Like I even think, yeah, we don't even need to

2557
02:18:19,440 --> 02:18:22,959
Speaker 12: an allege a larger conspiracy here. I think everyone involved

2558
02:18:23,000 --> 02:18:24,840
Speaker 12: in this is quite savvy and knows what they should

2559
02:18:24,879 --> 02:18:25,640
Speaker 12: say and shouldn't say.

2560
02:18:25,760 --> 02:18:28,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think the conspiracy is obvious, Like

2561
02:18:28,400 --> 02:18:30,240
Speaker 2: that's that's all there is. There doesn't need to be

2562
02:18:30,360 --> 02:18:32,800
Speaker 2: an explicit quid pro crow here. Yeah, I don't know.

2563
02:18:33,600 --> 02:18:35,640
Speaker 2: It's interesting to me that she brings up Prince Andrew.

2564
02:18:35,800 --> 02:18:38,720
Speaker 2: If nobody brought that up to her, she was asked

2565
02:18:38,720 --> 02:18:40,920
Speaker 2: about it. That's what I'm saying is I believe there's

2566
02:18:40,959 --> 02:18:43,640
Speaker 2: a conversation. We're not privy here too, where she got

2567
02:18:43,800 --> 02:18:47,920
Speaker 2: marching orders in exchange for getting you know, she's basically

2568
02:18:47,959 --> 02:18:49,160
Speaker 2: out on work release, right.

2569
02:18:49,560 --> 02:18:52,920
Speaker 12: I don't need to jump to such outrageous conspiratorial beliefs

2570
02:18:53,000 --> 02:18:53,480
Speaker 12: such as that.

2571
02:18:53,720 --> 02:18:57,760
Speaker 2: I'm okay with it at this point. Yeah, I don't

2572
02:18:57,800 --> 02:19:00,760
Speaker 2: know what to what extended it was, but yeah, I

2573
02:19:00,760 --> 02:19:03,960
Speaker 2: don't know this is this is pointless, Like, yeah, I

2574
02:19:04,000 --> 02:19:06,760
Speaker 2: don't know if this helps with his base. I don't

2575
02:19:06,800 --> 02:19:08,360
Speaker 2: know that his bass is going to be like, well

2576
02:19:08,400 --> 02:19:10,960
Speaker 2: if Gilan Maxwell says it, nope, yeah.

2577
02:19:11,360 --> 02:19:14,959
Speaker 12: I mean people have responded positively, like Margor Taylor Green,

2578
02:19:15,000 --> 02:19:17,160
Speaker 12: who was previously going on a slight offense that on

2579
02:19:17,160 --> 02:19:20,440
Speaker 12: the Epstein things, has now fully come around being like, well,

2580
02:19:20,480 --> 02:19:23,080
Speaker 12: there you go. It's it turns out Trumpet isn't a

2581
02:19:23,160 --> 02:19:27,200
Speaker 12: pedophile after all. Thank goodness, that was a close call there.

2582
02:19:27,360 --> 02:19:32,080
Speaker 2: I know this is being disseminated to his influencer network,

2583
02:19:32,240 --> 02:19:35,360
Speaker 2: right and to the network of people that he uses

2584
02:19:35,400 --> 02:19:37,720
Speaker 2: for stuff like this. I'm wondering about the actual like

2585
02:19:38,920 --> 02:19:42,280
Speaker 2: voter base, fan base, like time will tell, and the

2586
02:19:42,320 --> 02:19:44,760
Speaker 2: folks who are a step or two further than Marjorie

2587
02:19:44,760 --> 02:19:46,640
Speaker 2: Taylor Green, like the like the people who are more

2588
02:19:46,720 --> 02:19:48,720
Speaker 2: like on the Rogan side of things, like does this

2589
02:19:49,000 --> 02:19:50,520
Speaker 2: really move the needle for them?

2590
02:19:50,720 --> 02:19:50,920
Speaker 7: Sure?

2591
02:19:51,120 --> 02:19:53,800
Speaker 2: I hate having the cares like is Joe roganm gonna

2592
02:19:53,840 --> 02:19:57,960
Speaker 2: buy this shlot, but this does seem like, yeah, shameful

2593
02:19:58,040 --> 02:19:58,680
Speaker 2: even for him.

2594
02:19:59,080 --> 02:20:01,520
Speaker 12: I mean, I think a lot of people can see

2595
02:20:01,560 --> 02:20:05,480
Speaker 12: that there is an incentive for going to say certain things,

2596
02:20:05,920 --> 02:20:08,600
Speaker 12: and I think people people are smart enough to understand that.

2597
02:20:09,000 --> 02:20:11,240
Speaker 12: I don't think she's going to tell the Trump's own

2598
02:20:11,280 --> 02:20:15,240
Speaker 12: DOJ about like a smoking gun involving Trump. Why would

2599
02:20:15,240 --> 02:20:17,320
Speaker 12: that help her try to get a pardon from the President.

2600
02:20:17,600 --> 02:20:19,480
Speaker 7: Yeah, I think I think I think the important thing

2601
02:20:19,680 --> 02:20:22,039
Speaker 7: for this is that like, the people who are going

2602
02:20:22,080 --> 02:20:24,000
Speaker 7: to believe this are the people who just don't want

2603
02:20:24,080 --> 02:20:25,800
Speaker 7: to believe that Trump did this, and this is this

2604
02:20:25,920 --> 02:20:29,040
Speaker 7: is a reinforcing thing that you can feed them. But

2605
02:20:29,200 --> 02:20:31,680
Speaker 7: the question is what answer for everyone else? And it's

2606
02:20:31,760 --> 02:20:34,080
Speaker 7: not particularly compelling for them.

2607
02:20:34,520 --> 02:20:37,280
Speaker 12: All Right, we have four executive orders to get through

2608
02:20:37,280 --> 02:20:40,400
Speaker 12: before we close this episode, starting off with cashless bail.

2609
02:20:40,959 --> 02:20:44,160
Speaker 12: On Monday, Trump signed two executive orders targeting cashless bail,

2610
02:20:44,200 --> 02:20:46,600
Speaker 12: one specific to Washington, d C. Which directs law enforcement

2611
02:20:46,680 --> 02:20:49,279
Speaker 12: to charge people federally and hold them in federal custody,

2612
02:20:49,760 --> 02:20:53,000
Speaker 12: and to use federal funding and services as leverage to

2613
02:20:53,080 --> 02:20:57,120
Speaker 12: pressure DC to change its cash less bail policies. The

2614
02:20:57,200 --> 02:21:00,640
Speaker 12: other executive order targets cashless bail nation Why, and asks

2615
02:21:00,640 --> 02:21:03,160
Speaker 12: the Attorney General to make a list of quote states

2616
02:21:03,200 --> 02:21:05,879
Speaker 12: and local jurisdictions that have, in the Attorney General's opinion,

2617
02:21:06,160 --> 02:21:08,920
Speaker 12: substantially eliminated cash bail as a potential condition of pre

2618
02:21:09,040 --> 02:21:11,959
Speaker 12: tray release from custody for crimes that pose a clear

2619
02:21:12,120 --> 02:21:15,360
Speaker 12: threat to public safety and order, including offenses involving violent,

2620
02:21:15,520 --> 02:21:19,160
Speaker 12: sexual or indecent acts, or burglary, looting, or vandalism. The

2621
02:21:19,160 --> 02:21:21,640
Speaker 12: Attorney General shall update this list as necessary.

2622
02:21:22,440 --> 02:21:22,720
Speaker 7: Quote.

2623
02:21:22,920 --> 02:21:25,800
Speaker 12: So, using that list, Trump's cabinet will then quote identify

2624
02:21:26,000 --> 02:21:29,520
Speaker 12: federal funds, including grants and contracts currently provided to cashst

2625
02:21:29,520 --> 02:21:33,400
Speaker 12: bail jurisdictions that may be suspended or terminated unquote. So

2626
02:21:33,480 --> 02:21:37,640
Speaker 12: it's trying to bribe states and local municipalities to cease

2627
02:21:37,840 --> 02:21:41,120
Speaker 12: cash's bail policies using federal funds, the same way that

2628
02:21:41,120 --> 02:21:42,680
Speaker 12: they've tried to do for a whole bunch of other

2629
02:21:43,240 --> 02:21:46,800
Speaker 12: anti WOUE policies Trump has tried to force onto unwilling states.

2630
02:21:47,520 --> 02:21:52,400
Speaker 12: Second Executive Order from August twenty fifth, titled Prosecuting Burning

2631
02:21:52,560 --> 02:21:58,880
Speaker 12: of the American Flag. Let's start with a clip from Trump.

2632
02:21:58,959 --> 02:22:01,080
Speaker 12: I don't want to just place super long Trump clips

2633
02:22:01,120 --> 02:22:02,840
Speaker 12: because they know that can be annoying. But the way

2634
02:22:02,879 --> 02:22:05,600
Speaker 12: that he talks about disorder is kind of more interesting

2635
02:22:05,680 --> 02:22:07,840
Speaker 12: than the way the order is written. But we will

2636
02:22:08,120 --> 02:22:10,280
Speaker 12: talk about some of those smaller details included in the

2637
02:22:10,360 --> 02:22:13,800
Speaker 12: actual text. But here's a clip from c SPAN.

2638
02:22:14,440 --> 02:22:18,640
Speaker 17: Flag burning all over the country. They're burning flags all

2639
02:22:18,680 --> 02:22:21,640
Speaker 17: over the world. They burn the American flag and as

2640
02:22:21,680 --> 02:22:25,560
Speaker 17: you know, through a very sad chord. I guess it

2641
02:22:25,720 --> 02:22:28,560
Speaker 17: was a five to four decision. They called it freedom

2642
02:22:28,600 --> 02:22:31,880
Speaker 17: of speech. But there's another reason, which is perhaps much

2643
02:22:31,959 --> 02:22:35,640
Speaker 17: more important. It's called death. Because what happens when you

2644
02:22:35,720 --> 02:22:39,920
Speaker 17: burn a flag is the area goes crazy. If you

2645
02:22:40,000 --> 02:22:42,280
Speaker 17: have hundreds of people, they go crazy. You could do

2646
02:22:42,440 --> 02:22:44,760
Speaker 17: other things, you can burn this piece of paper, you could,

2647
02:22:45,560 --> 02:22:49,160
Speaker 17: and it's when you burn the American flag. It incites

2648
02:22:49,360 --> 02:22:53,040
Speaker 17: riots at levels that we've never seen before. People go

2649
02:22:53,160 --> 02:22:56,959
Speaker 17: crazy in a way. Both ways. There's some that are

2650
02:22:57,000 --> 02:22:59,039
Speaker 17: going crazy for doing it. There are others that are

2651
02:22:59,360 --> 02:23:03,680
Speaker 17: angry angry about them doing it. Do you want to

2652
02:23:03,720 --> 02:23:04,200
Speaker 17: discuss that?

2653
02:23:04,400 --> 02:23:04,600
Speaker 9: Sure?

2654
02:23:04,840 --> 02:23:07,520
Speaker 18: What the Executive Order does? Their charges your Department of

2655
02:23:07,720 --> 02:23:11,640
Speaker 18: Justice with investigating instances of flag burning and then where

2656
02:23:11,800 --> 02:23:16,320
Speaker 18: there's evidence of criminal activity, that where prosecution wouldn't fall

2657
02:23:16,360 --> 02:23:18,520
Speaker 18: afoul of the First Amendment, and instructs the Department of

2658
02:23:18,720 --> 02:23:21,920
Speaker 18: Justice to prosecute those who are engaged in these instances

2659
02:23:21,959 --> 02:23:23,920
Speaker 18: of flagburn and what.

2660
02:23:24,120 --> 02:23:25,280
Speaker 7: The penalty is going to be.

2661
02:23:25,840 --> 02:23:29,120
Speaker 17: If you burn a flag, you get one year in jail,

2662
02:23:29,840 --> 02:23:33,640
Speaker 17: No early exits, no nothing, You get one year in jail.

2663
02:23:33,680 --> 02:23:36,120
Speaker 17: If you're burn a flag, you get. And what it

2664
02:23:36,320 --> 02:23:39,080
Speaker 17: does is insight to write, I hope they use that language.

2665
02:23:39,120 --> 02:23:41,560
Speaker 17: By the way, did that insight to riot?

2666
02:23:41,840 --> 02:23:42,160
Speaker 7: I love it?

2667
02:23:42,200 --> 02:23:44,879
Speaker 12: He is to check, yeah, because God forbid him actually

2668
02:23:44,959 --> 02:23:45,879
Speaker 12: mean what he's citing?

2669
02:23:46,680 --> 02:23:48,039
Speaker 7: Trump trump auto pen.

2670
02:23:50,320 --> 02:23:53,920
Speaker 12: That's right. So included in the order, it says, quote,

2671
02:23:54,000 --> 02:23:57,320
Speaker 12: notwithstanding the Supreme Court's ruling on Fristman protections, the Court

2672
02:23:57,440 --> 02:24:00,960
Speaker 12: is never held that American flag desecration, conducted in a

2673
02:24:01,000 --> 02:24:04,480
Speaker 12: manner that is likely to incite imminent lawless action, or

2674
02:24:04,800 --> 02:24:07,640
Speaker 12: that is an action amounting to quote unquote fighting words,

2675
02:24:08,200 --> 02:24:12,760
Speaker 12: is constitutionally protected see taxes fee Johnson unquote. The order

2676
02:24:12,800 --> 02:24:15,360
Speaker 12: directs Theatory in General to enforce criminal and civil laws

2677
02:24:15,400 --> 02:24:18,600
Speaker 12: against acts of American flight discration that cause harm unrelated

2678
02:24:18,680 --> 02:24:21,600
Speaker 12: to First amendment expression, which could include charging people with

2679
02:24:21,720 --> 02:24:27,119
Speaker 12: violent crimes, hate crimes, a legal discrimination against American citizens,

2680
02:24:27,400 --> 02:24:31,800
Speaker 12: what violations of American civil rights, crimes against property and peace,

2681
02:24:31,959 --> 02:24:35,080
Speaker 12: as well as conspiracies and attempts to violate in aiding

2682
02:24:35,160 --> 02:24:38,040
Speaker 12: and abetting others to violate such laws, so it's like

2683
02:24:38,080 --> 02:24:41,000
Speaker 12: an anti rioting thing. The dj will also look for

2684
02:24:41,160 --> 02:24:44,640
Speaker 12: cases where American flag discretion could violate applicable state or

2685
02:24:44,680 --> 02:24:49,160
Speaker 12: local laws, such as open burning restrictions, disorderly conduct laws,

2686
02:24:49,440 --> 02:24:51,960
Speaker 12: or destruction of property laws, and will refer such matters

2687
02:24:52,000 --> 02:24:54,680
Speaker 12: to state and local authorities for potential action. Finally, the

2688
02:24:54,720 --> 02:24:59,320
Speaker 12: Secretary of State shall deny, prohibit, terminate, or revoke visas residents,

2689
02:24:59,360 --> 02:25:02,720
Speaker 12: permitsture realization proceedings and other immigration benefits, or seek to

2690
02:25:02,760 --> 02:25:06,080
Speaker 12: deport any foreign national that has engaged in American flag

2691
02:25:06,320 --> 02:25:09,840
Speaker 12: to secretion activity. So that's how they're going to go

2692
02:25:09,920 --> 02:25:11,800
Speaker 12: after it. Rob, Are do you anything to say on

2693
02:25:11,879 --> 02:25:13,200
Speaker 12: this flag burning thing?

2694
02:25:14,360 --> 02:25:17,960
Speaker 2: I mean they're waiting. I mean, and they didn't wind

2695
02:25:18,040 --> 02:25:20,280
Speaker 2: up waiting long. Someone did it immediately as they knew

2696
02:25:20,280 --> 02:25:22,000
Speaker 2: they would, so that they can get a case that

2697
02:25:22,080 --> 02:25:24,080
Speaker 2: they can take up to the Supreme Court. So we'll see,

2698
02:25:24,320 --> 02:25:25,960
Speaker 2: We'll see what happens. We'll see. Yeah.

2699
02:25:26,640 --> 02:25:30,040
Speaker 12: Yeah, they want to prosecute one of these things and

2700
02:25:30,160 --> 02:25:31,720
Speaker 12: appeal it all the way to the Supreme Court to

2701
02:25:31,760 --> 02:25:34,520
Speaker 12: maybe change that ruling so they can apply it more broadly. Right,

2702
02:25:34,720 --> 02:25:37,039
Speaker 12: So it's part of the same test that they've done

2703
02:25:37,080 --> 02:25:39,880
Speaker 12: with a number of other things that seems unconstitutional, It

2704
02:25:39,879 --> 02:25:43,120
Speaker 12: seems to violate Supreme Court rulings. Yeah, but the point

2705
02:25:43,160 --> 02:25:44,880
Speaker 12: is to test that and see if they can change it,

2706
02:25:45,000 --> 02:25:45,960
Speaker 12: just like they did with abortion.

2707
02:25:46,440 --> 02:25:46,640
Speaker 7: Yeah.

2708
02:25:46,920 --> 02:25:49,320
Speaker 2: Can we go further and if this works, if we

2709
02:25:49,400 --> 02:25:52,280
Speaker 2: feel like we made progress on this, can we start

2710
02:25:52,320 --> 02:25:54,480
Speaker 2: pushing and saying other things our incitement?

2711
02:25:54,680 --> 02:25:54,840
Speaker 9: Right?

2712
02:25:55,120 --> 02:25:55,280
Speaker 12: You know?

2713
02:25:55,640 --> 02:25:57,760
Speaker 2: Can we start going after people who aren't even present

2714
02:25:57,840 --> 02:26:00,800
Speaker 2: who write something that is like, well, this was incitement

2715
02:26:00,840 --> 02:26:03,120
Speaker 2: to write because they wrote about the police murdering this guy. Right,

2716
02:26:03,240 --> 02:26:05,600
Speaker 2: like a party of free speech strikes again. This is

2717
02:26:05,640 --> 02:26:08,080
Speaker 2: the kind of thing where can I wargame out? Would

2718
02:26:08,120 --> 02:26:10,520
Speaker 2: they try this? If they can get that far? Yeah

2719
02:26:10,560 --> 02:26:12,280
Speaker 2: they will. If they can get that far. Will they

2720
02:26:12,320 --> 02:26:12,959
Speaker 2: get that far?

2721
02:26:13,200 --> 02:26:13,360
Speaker 5: You know?

2722
02:26:13,680 --> 02:26:15,760
Speaker 2: Is the Supreme Court going to give them everything they

2723
02:26:15,800 --> 02:26:18,320
Speaker 2: want on this? I don't actually know, Like I really

2724
02:26:18,400 --> 02:26:20,640
Speaker 2: don't know. So I'm going to try not to doom

2725
02:26:20,720 --> 02:26:24,440
Speaker 2: spiral too much, just you know, let's see, none of

2726
02:26:24,520 --> 02:26:26,480
Speaker 2: us have any choice in the matter at this stage.

2727
02:26:27,320 --> 02:26:30,840
Speaker 12: Finally, let's address the quote additional measures to address the

2728
02:26:30,879 --> 02:26:34,920
Speaker 12: crime emergency in the District of Columbia. So it's another

2729
02:26:34,959 --> 02:26:39,600
Speaker 12: executive order from August twenty fifth. Trump wants to establish

2730
02:26:39,640 --> 02:26:43,040
Speaker 12: an online portal for Americans with law enforcement experience quote

2731
02:26:43,320 --> 02:26:46,320
Speaker 12: or other relevant backgrounds and experience to apply to join

2732
02:26:46,400 --> 02:26:49,680
Speaker 12: federal la enforcementities to support the policy goals described in

2733
02:26:49,800 --> 02:26:52,640
Speaker 12: Executive Order one four three three. That's the Making a

2734
02:26:52,760 --> 02:26:56,480
Speaker 12: DC Safe and Beautiful Order from a few weeks ago. Right,

2735
02:26:56,760 --> 02:27:01,160
Speaker 12: the Secretary of Defense is instructed to create and begin manning, hiring,

2736
02:27:01,280 --> 02:27:04,959
Speaker 12: and equipping a specialized unit within the District of Columbia

2737
02:27:05,080 --> 02:27:09,000
Speaker 12: National Guard who will be deputized to enforce federal law.

2738
02:27:09,640 --> 02:27:12,320
Speaker 12: To quote the order quote, the Secretary Defense shall immediately

2739
02:27:12,320 --> 02:27:16,000
Speaker 12: begin ensuring that each state's National Army Guard and Air

2740
02:27:16,120 --> 02:27:19,200
Speaker 12: National Guard are resource trained, organized, an available to assist federal,

2741
02:27:19,280 --> 02:27:22,280
Speaker 12: state and local law enforcement in quelling civil disturbances and

2742
02:27:22,440 --> 02:27:26,400
Speaker 12: ensuring the public safety and order whenever the circumstances necessitate,

2743
02:27:27,000 --> 02:27:31,199
Speaker 12: as appropriate under law. In coordination with respective Adjuncts General,

2744
02:27:31,440 --> 02:27:34,039
Speaker 12: the Secretary Defense style designate an appropriate number of each

2745
02:27:34,120 --> 02:27:37,320
Speaker 12: state's trained National Guard members to be reasonably available for

2746
02:27:37,480 --> 02:27:40,360
Speaker 12: rapid mobilization for such purposes. In addition, the Secretary Defense

2747
02:27:40,480 --> 02:27:43,360
Speaker 12: shall ensure the availability of a standing National Guard quick

2748
02:27:43,520 --> 02:27:47,560
Speaker 12: reaction force that shall be resource trained and available for

2749
02:27:47,879 --> 02:27:54,320
Speaker 12: rapid nationwide deployment. National Guard walking streets of DC are

2750
02:27:54,520 --> 02:27:58,040
Speaker 12: now carrying firearms after first being deployed without their service weapon,

2751
02:27:58,400 --> 02:28:01,800
Speaker 12: and since the operation in DC he began on August seventh,

2752
02:28:01,879 --> 02:28:04,560
Speaker 12: or now been over a thousand arrests, including dozens of

2753
02:28:04,680 --> 02:28:09,040
Speaker 12: undocumented immigrants. Currently, the Pentagon is planning to deploy thousands

2754
02:28:09,080 --> 02:28:14,240
Speaker 12: of National Guard to Chicago to continue Trump's alleged crime crackdown.

2755
02:28:15,000 --> 02:28:17,080
Speaker 19: I would have much more respect for Pritsko. If he'd

2756
02:28:17,120 --> 02:28:18,680
Speaker 19: call me up and say, I have a problem, can

2757
02:28:18,760 --> 02:28:21,040
Speaker 19: you help me fix it? I would be so happy

2758
02:28:21,120 --> 02:28:24,320
Speaker 19: to do it. I don't love not that I don't

2759
02:28:24,360 --> 02:28:26,480
Speaker 19: have the right to do anything I want to do.

2760
02:28:26,640 --> 02:28:28,520
Speaker 19: I'm the President of the United States. If I think

2761
02:28:28,600 --> 02:28:30,640
Speaker 19: our country is in danger, and it is in danger

2762
02:28:30,720 --> 02:28:35,199
Speaker 19: in these cities, I can do it no problem going

2763
02:28:35,280 --> 02:28:39,039
Speaker 19: in and solving you know his difficulties, but it would

2764
02:28:39,040 --> 02:28:40,840
Speaker 19: be nice if they'd call and they say, would you

2765
02:28:40,959 --> 02:28:41,160
Speaker 19: do it?

2766
02:28:41,959 --> 02:28:46,240
Speaker 2: He's hurt, poor guy. They want to ask him for help.

2767
02:28:46,520 --> 02:28:50,600
Speaker 12: His little fewings. He's gonna have to He's gonna have

2768
02:28:50,640 --> 02:28:53,680
Speaker 12: to deploy the national goal without putschool's.

2769
02:28:53,480 --> 02:28:54,640
Speaker 7: Approval, you know.

2770
02:28:54,879 --> 02:28:58,000
Speaker 2: Gang. In all of this focus on the people being

2771
02:28:58,120 --> 02:29:00,640
Speaker 2: killed and persecuted by the government, I don't think any

2772
02:29:00,680 --> 02:29:03,600
Speaker 2: of us has stopped and spent enough time thinking how

2773
02:29:03,680 --> 02:29:04,920
Speaker 2: does Donald Trump feel?

2774
02:29:05,640 --> 02:29:09,160
Speaker 12: And shame on us, you know, shame on us. But

2775
02:29:09,320 --> 02:29:13,080
Speaker 12: it's not just Chicago. On Friday, the Pentagon told Fox

2776
02:29:13,200 --> 02:29:16,400
Speaker 12: News at upwards of seventeen hundred National Guard troops will

2777
02:29:16,400 --> 02:29:18,960
Speaker 12: be mobilized in nineteen states to be deployed across the

2778
02:29:18,959 --> 02:29:22,600
Speaker 12: country to assist ice in the nationwide hunt for undocumented immigrants.

2779
02:29:23,040 --> 02:29:30,600
Speaker 12: The Guard will be activated in states like Alabama, Arkansas, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Indiana, Iowa, Louisiana, Nebraska, Nevada,

2780
02:29:30,680 --> 02:29:35,360
Speaker 12: New Mexico, Ohio, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia,

2781
02:29:35,440 --> 02:29:40,359
Speaker 12: and Wyoming, with effective status ranging from August through mid November,

2782
02:29:40,720 --> 02:29:45,400
Speaker 12: and operations expected to start in early September. Importantly, as

2783
02:29:45,440 --> 02:29:49,080
Speaker 12: we saw in DC, national guard from other states might

2784
02:29:49,200 --> 02:29:52,440
Speaker 12: deploy two other states. Specifically, in the case where Trump

2785
02:29:52,440 --> 02:29:55,800
Speaker 12: doesn't get cooperation from the governor who is in control

2786
02:29:55,840 --> 02:29:58,520
Speaker 12: of the national Guard of each state, he can deploy

2787
02:29:58,640 --> 02:30:01,080
Speaker 12: national Guard from somewhere else, like what he did in DC,

2788
02:30:01,320 --> 02:30:05,000
Speaker 12: pulling national Guard from other Red states being deployed to

2789
02:30:05,360 --> 02:30:09,520
Speaker 12: d C but mobilized in those Red states. So national

2790
02:30:09,520 --> 02:30:11,920
Speaker 12: guards from all of these states could be deployed in

2791
02:30:12,040 --> 02:30:14,800
Speaker 12: a town near you, no matter where you live. And

2792
02:30:15,040 --> 02:30:17,720
Speaker 12: this operation specifically with these like seventeen hundred National Guard

2793
02:30:17,720 --> 02:30:21,080
Speaker 12: troops is specifically to assist ice. His plan to do this,

2794
02:30:21,240 --> 02:30:26,480
Speaker 12: like anti crime deployment in Chicago, is a separate yet

2795
02:30:26,600 --> 02:30:30,039
Speaker 12: similar plan. It's also pulling from national Guard. But these

2796
02:30:30,080 --> 02:30:33,760
Speaker 12: things are two separate operations according to White House officials.

2797
02:30:34,520 --> 02:30:36,960
Speaker 7: And I think one of the important things about this

2798
02:30:37,240 --> 02:30:39,400
Speaker 7: is that, you know, obviously there's the part of this

2799
02:30:39,440 --> 02:30:41,120
Speaker 7: where it's like, yeah, they want to at the very

2800
02:30:41,240 --> 02:30:43,520
Speaker 7: least look like they're just occupying cities and they are

2801
02:30:43,680 --> 02:30:47,000
Speaker 7: arresting huge members of people, But they also just don't

2802
02:30:47,840 --> 02:30:53,200
Speaker 7: have the manpower to do this kind of stuff, which

2803
02:30:53,280 --> 02:30:56,520
Speaker 7: is why they're pulling the National Guards. Why they're trying

2804
02:30:56,560 --> 02:30:58,640
Speaker 7: to expand the number of people on ICE. This is

2805
02:30:58,680 --> 02:31:00,360
Speaker 7: why they're pulling National Guard out to do this kind

2806
02:31:00,360 --> 02:31:02,200
Speaker 7: of stuff, which that like they don't actually have the

2807
02:31:02,240 --> 02:31:06,280
Speaker 7: repressive capacity to just occupy cities and they're trying to

2808
02:31:06,360 --> 02:31:08,039
Speaker 7: find the manpower to be able.

2809
02:31:07,840 --> 02:31:08,120
Speaker 20: To do it.

2810
02:31:09,520 --> 02:31:12,360
Speaker 12: So we will keep an eye out in September for

2811
02:31:12,520 --> 02:31:17,920
Speaker 12: these possible military deployments around the country. Yep, hey everyone,

2812
02:31:18,040 --> 02:31:21,600
Speaker 12: this is Garrison recording a short update on Thursday since

2813
02:31:21,640 --> 02:31:24,040
Speaker 12: we have a little bit more information about the Minneapolis,

2814
02:31:24,120 --> 02:31:30,440
Speaker 12: Minnesota school shooting. So right after we recorded, rumors started

2815
02:31:30,600 --> 02:31:35,720
Speaker 12: circulating that this shooter was linked to neo Nazi, satanic

2816
02:31:35,879 --> 02:31:40,720
Speaker 12: pedophile groups nine A and seven to six four. Someone

2817
02:31:40,800 --> 02:31:44,760
Speaker 12: on Twitter found a neo Nazi forum account that they

2818
02:31:44,879 --> 02:31:49,480
Speaker 12: alleged belonged to the school shooter. This account used in

2819
02:31:49,879 --> 02:31:54,000
Speaker 12: nine A symbol, and an affiliated Twitter account made other

2820
02:31:54,400 --> 02:31:58,400
Speaker 12: nine A references. These claims gained a lot of traction

2821
02:31:58,640 --> 02:32:02,400
Speaker 12: from leftist accounts and armchair experts on Twitter and Blue

2822
02:32:02,440 --> 02:32:06,160
Speaker 12: sky Lots. People were very eager to talk about something

2823
02:32:06,320 --> 02:32:11,120
Speaker 12: else besides that this shooter was trans and many pinned

2824
02:32:11,200 --> 02:32:14,840
Speaker 12: the blame on seven sixty four, the child exploitation group

2825
02:32:14,959 --> 02:32:19,720
Speaker 12: that operates on discord and telegram that Blackmaile's children and

2826
02:32:19,959 --> 02:32:23,680
Speaker 12: encourages some to commit acts of violence like school shootings.

2827
02:32:24,200 --> 02:32:27,200
Speaker 12: I talked about seven sixty four on my Nihilist Violent

2828
02:32:27,280 --> 02:32:32,560
Speaker 12: Extremism episode from earlier this year. As these claims spread online,

2829
02:32:33,200 --> 02:32:36,440
Speaker 12: I remained skeptical because this shooter did not seem to

2830
02:32:36,520 --> 02:32:39,400
Speaker 12: really fit the profile of a nine A or seven

2831
02:32:39,560 --> 02:32:43,040
Speaker 12: six y four grooming victim. This shooter did not really

2832
02:32:43,080 --> 02:32:46,160
Speaker 12: seem like an O Nina acolyte. They more closely resembled

2833
02:32:46,560 --> 02:32:50,400
Speaker 12: the True Crime Community fandom. And while sometimes True Crime

2834
02:32:50,400 --> 02:32:54,800
Speaker 12: Community or TCC may use O Nina references because other

2835
02:32:54,920 --> 02:32:58,280
Speaker 12: mass shooters have or because previous mass shooters have been

2836
02:32:58,320 --> 02:33:01,440
Speaker 12: affiliated with Nina and really groups, I did not see

2837
02:33:01,520 --> 02:33:04,640
Speaker 12: much evidence linking this shooter to nine A based on

2838
02:33:04,720 --> 02:33:08,440
Speaker 12: the videos they posted to YouTube, And while some Nazi

2839
02:33:08,560 --> 02:33:12,960
Speaker 12: Satanist types have helped facilitate the Columbiner or TCC fandom,

2840
02:33:13,400 --> 02:33:17,520
Speaker 12: there was no solid evidence linking a group like seven

2841
02:33:17,560 --> 02:33:21,120
Speaker 12: to six' four to this latest. Shooting the shooter was

2842
02:33:21,240 --> 02:33:23,720
Speaker 12: in their mid. Twenties they weren't a fourteen year old

2843
02:33:24,040 --> 02:33:28,080
Speaker 12: being groomed into doing a mass, shooting and then On thursday,

2844
02:33:28,160 --> 02:33:32,520
Speaker 12: morning the forum account alleged to be The minneapolis shooter

2845
02:33:32,760 --> 02:33:35,840
Speaker 12: and the source of claims calling them a NINE a

2846
02:33:35,959 --> 02:33:39,440
Speaker 12: or sen six four grimmy victim started posting again on the.

2847
02:33:39,520 --> 02:33:42,920
Speaker 12: Forum it wasn't the shooter's. Account the shooter did not

2848
02:33:43,040 --> 02:33:46,400
Speaker 12: fit that. Profile they weren't in a Cult Nazi. Satanist

2849
02:33:46,760 --> 02:33:50,560
Speaker 12: they were obsessed with mass, killers and translations of their

2850
02:33:50,680 --> 02:33:54,400
Speaker 12: cerecict journal have helped to substantiate. THIS a journal entry

2851
02:33:54,520 --> 02:33:57,520
Speaker 12: discussed taking pleasure in dressing up as a school. Shooter

2852
02:33:57,720 --> 02:34:02,000
Speaker 12: quote TODAY i assembled a school shoot cosplay. Quote and

2853
02:34:02,160 --> 02:34:06,000
Speaker 12: in translations of their, journal they made explicit references To

2854
02:34:06,520 --> 02:34:10,480
Speaker 12: True Crime COMMUNITY, tcc saying that they might cringe if

2855
02:34:10,520 --> 02:34:14,760
Speaker 12: they joined an ONLINE tcc community and it could make

2856
02:34:14,800 --> 02:34:17,000
Speaker 12: them not want to follow through on doing an. Attack

2857
02:34:17,320 --> 02:34:22,320
Speaker 12: doing ONLINE tcc fandom as mostly full of. Posers, QUOTE

2858
02:34:22,680 --> 02:34:26,240
Speaker 12: i think joining a community would alienate my future, unquote

2859
02:34:26,760 --> 02:34:30,320
Speaker 12: and QUOTE i feel a very small portion OF tcc

2860
02:34:30,800 --> 02:34:36,200
Speaker 12: feels AS i. Do harbor's admiration of intent. Unquote one

2861
02:34:36,240 --> 02:34:39,000
Speaker 12: more update BEFORE i closed the episode earlier, today On,

2862
02:34:39,120 --> 02:34:42,040
Speaker 12: THURSDAY Rfk junior was asked if he would now be

2863
02:34:42,120 --> 02:34:47,359
Speaker 12: looking into if gender transition drugs cause. Violence he responded

2864
02:34:47,440 --> 02:34:50,840
Speaker 12: by saying that they were already doing studies looking into,

2865
02:34:50,959 --> 02:34:54,960
Speaker 12: that and then quickly pivoted to talking about quote launching

2866
02:34:55,040 --> 02:34:58,279
Speaker 12: studies on the potential contribution of some of THE ssri

2867
02:34:58,560 --> 02:35:01,600
Speaker 12: drugs and some of the other psychiatric drugs that might

2868
02:35:01,680 --> 02:35:06,440
Speaker 12: be contributing to violence. Unquote this lines up WITH Rfk

2869
02:35:06,600 --> 02:35:12,080
Speaker 12: junior's general focus on psychiatric DRUGS SSRIs depression, medication as

2870
02:35:12,240 --> 02:35:15,880
Speaker 12: he has previously. Stated that's all for us today On

2871
02:35:16,120 --> 02:35:16,640
Speaker 12: It Could Happen.

2872
02:35:16,720 --> 02:35:18,400
Speaker 2: Here we reported the.

2873
02:35:18,480 --> 02:35:20,840
Speaker 9: News we reported the.

2874
02:35:20,920 --> 02:35:28,600
Speaker 2: News, Hey we'll be Back monday with more episodes every

2875
02:35:28,640 --> 02:35:30,360
Speaker 2: week from now until the heat death of The.

2876
02:35:30,440 --> 02:35:33,760
Speaker 20: Universe it Could Happen here is a production of Cool Zone.

2877
02:35:33,840 --> 02:35:36,840
Speaker 20: Media for more podcasts from Cool Zone, media visit our

2878
02:35:36,879 --> 02:35:40,680
Speaker 20: website coolzonmedia dot, com or check us out on The iHeartRadio,

2879
02:35:40,760 --> 02:35:43,000
Speaker 20: App Apple, podcasts or wherever.

2880
02:35:42,800 --> 02:35:43,280
Speaker 15: You listen to.

2881
02:35:43,400 --> 02:35:46,320
Speaker 20: Podcasts can now find sources where it Could happen here

2882
02:35:46,360 --> 02:35:47,520
Speaker 20: listed directly in episode.

2883
02:35:47,560 --> 02:35:48,840
Speaker 7: Descriptions thanks for.

2884
02:35:48,959 --> 02:35:49,320
Speaker 9: Listening