Speaker 1: Pushkin Ballah has a brilliant new project out called as Brightness.
Speaker 1: It's bold, cinematic, and his most cohesive project since his debut.
Speaker 1: And if that one't enough, he's also just dropped Live
Speaker 1: at Glasshouse, an intimate live recording that captures the magic
Speaker 1: of his performances where the band is tight, the vocals
Speaker 1: are loose, the energy is electric, and anything can happen. Today,
Speaker 1: ball talks about the making of a Just Brightness, how
Speaker 1: he prepares for his explosive live performances, and why chasing freedom,
Speaker 1: both musically and spiritually, has always been his north star.
Speaker 1: This is broken record, real musicians, real conversations. Here's my
Speaker 1: conversation with blaw. Your high school is pretty.
Speaker 2: I went to a performing in ours high school too.
Speaker 3: We had everybody, well, boys, the men, the roots, a
Speaker 3: mill of the room, Chris McBride, yup, christmacbride, Joey d Francesco.
Speaker 1: Joey Diferen, RP Man. He was phenomenal.
Speaker 3: But yeah, we had some cats. None of them was
Speaker 3: there when I was there.
Speaker 1: But the roots and boys to men are kind of
Speaker 1: like I guess I'm not infamous, but for lack of
Speaker 1: a better word, the infamous class from your your high school.
Speaker 1: But you were, you were a good deal younger man.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I'm like, geez, I don't know what year
Speaker 3: they graduated, but I think we were like maybe almost
Speaker 3: ten years, if not ten years apart.
Speaker 1: Yeah, were you aware of them growing up?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I was aware of them just in the school. The
Speaker 3: teachers that would brag about them. Man, some of them
Speaker 3: would still come up to the school like jam with
Speaker 3: jam with us. I remember Chris mas Bride used to
Speaker 3: come up and jam with our our jazz band all
Speaker 3: the time. And at the I think that was right
Speaker 3: the year before our like big I guess mister King.
Speaker 3: He was like our big time choral teacher. So boys
Speaker 3: and men used to come all the time and just
Speaker 3: hang out with him. So we see boys and men
Speaker 3: all the time.
Speaker 1: That's insane because that means they were as big as
Speaker 1: he could get at that time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he used to always say they still used
Speaker 3: to still like he would always rag on them, but
Speaker 3: they loved it. They you know, like y'all still don't
Speaker 3: sing the harmony like I tort you. But we all
Speaker 3: hated mister King, but we loved him. No, he's passed,
Speaker 3: he passed, but you know, he was just one of
Speaker 3: those strong minded Germans, German men, German guy. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: he was so soulful and just like I learned a
Speaker 3: lot from him and just about emotions and the music
Speaker 3: and stuff.
Speaker 2: And man, he.
Speaker 3: Was just really into the music. You know, he didn't
Speaker 3: care that we were kids. He would cuss and everything,
Speaker 3: but it was music first over everything.
Speaker 2: I learned that from him. And he's passion.
Speaker 3: Like I didn't even know music could give you goose
Speaker 3: bumps or you should be in search of the goose
Speaker 3: bump effect as a musician until mister King. You know,
Speaker 3: he taught us all about that, like how to truly
Speaker 3: get emotion out of out of music or to draw
Speaker 3: an emotional reaction out of the listener.
Speaker 1: Like how would he teach that?
Speaker 3: He was just look for a certain tamper of the
Speaker 3: voice or a certain dynamic of the music, like certain dynamics,
Speaker 3: like something going from extremely loud to soft automatic light
Speaker 3: abruptly it does something emotionally to the listener, and then
Speaker 3: if it goes big again and then you know, you play,
Speaker 3: you play with volume.
Speaker 2: It kind of like it has an emotional play.
Speaker 1: That explains a lot about about your your music. And
Speaker 1: your approach to music one because I was thinking about, like,
Speaker 1: I've seen you many many times and your I mean,
Speaker 1: it might it might sound kind of tripe to sort
Speaker 1: of say that it appears to me that you treat
Speaker 1: your voice almost more like an instrument. But anytime I'm
Speaker 1: going to see you live, as opposed to any other singer,
Speaker 1: it always feels much more like an improvisational thing, in
Speaker 1: search of like a really high high or in search
Speaker 1: of a moment. And sometimes I've been to the shows
Speaker 1: where like that moment is like it's it's there, and
Speaker 1: sometimes that you could tell us that you didn't quite
Speaker 1: find it, or was it or the audience to find it,
Speaker 1: or there was some disconnect. But it's one of the
Speaker 1: things that is addicting about going to see you is
Speaker 1: just like what's it going to be tonight? It's almost
Speaker 1: like going to see you know. I just kind of
Speaker 1: got around to finally seeing The Grateful Day a few times,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, I get why people follow them, because
Speaker 1: at night to night, it's like what's it going to be?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 3: I love that. I mean, that's the whole jazz thing
Speaker 3: for me. I got that out of going to school
Speaker 3: for jazz, hanging out with all jazz cats my whole life.
Speaker 3: You know, Improvisation was just a big deal for me
Speaker 3: early on. So when I would go to write my music,
Speaker 3: I always try to leave little pockets and spaces that's
Speaker 3: like unknown and you have to like kind of make
Speaker 3: it up when you get there. So every night when
Speaker 3: we play, it's just it just so happens to be different,
Speaker 3: and I think that's a cool thing. It makes it
Speaker 3: fun for me, you know, playing these songs over and
Speaker 3: over again.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you do you have a do you have
Speaker 1: a reliable way at this point of like a routine
Speaker 1: or anything that you can do to sort of get
Speaker 1: you closer to achieving something than.
Speaker 2: Not like to start to like get ready for the show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I start to get ready for the show. Is
Speaker 1: there anything you can do that you feel like, even
Speaker 1: if it's just like you know, like an athlete might
Speaker 1: have like a like a little ritual that's like might
Speaker 1: not even be real, but like I gotta wear my
Speaker 1: green socks or whatever. It's just or it might not
Speaker 1: be that silly. But no, I don't. I don't I
Speaker 1: think I should.
Speaker 3: I think I started off having one, but then it
Speaker 3: just tanked. I used to try and have a little ritual,
Speaker 3: but I think I just keep forgetting the ritual.
Speaker 2: So my ritual is no ritual.
Speaker 1: What were you trying to implement as like.
Speaker 3: No, because I used to be like, yeah, before the show,
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do some push ups, you know what.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna just get my jump rope that I'll leave
Speaker 2: my jump rope at the hotel.
Speaker 3: We don't have enough time to do push ups or
Speaker 3: I'm like out of breath, so I'm like, I'm not
Speaker 3: doing that no more. So I'll just try to get
Speaker 3: into a little common space, like before the band goes out.
Speaker 3: Maybe I'll just sit there a little longer with my
Speaker 3: sunglasses on.
Speaker 2: Maybe I don't know.
Speaker 3: I just try to get into avoid place where I
Speaker 3: don't really care no more.
Speaker 1: You know, And what does what do you think that
Speaker 1: brings to the what you do?
Speaker 3: It just takes away from the expectations and.
Speaker 2: Trying to prove something or.
Speaker 3: Really caring to you know, and just get up there
Speaker 3: and do do what I do. I see myself as
Speaker 3: a channeler, you know. When I'm going up there, I'm
Speaker 3: kind of channeling from my higher self or like my
Speaker 3: perfect self. So I kind of like try to forget
Speaker 3: my hurtfully self, you know what I mean? Yeah, try
Speaker 3: to forget everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it helps bring you into the get rid
Speaker 1: of the expectation and bring it to the moment.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when it works, sometimes I literally forget everything and
Speaker 3: then I forget the words, and but when it's right on,
Speaker 3: you know, I forget all of the negative stuff.
Speaker 1: That's great. Is it a similar approach in the studio
Speaker 1: when you go into the studio. No.
Speaker 3: In the studio, I want to feel everything, you know,
Speaker 3: I want to be open to every everything in the room,
Speaker 3: everything that's coming to me, so I can try and
Speaker 3: make the studios where I try to make sense of everything.
Speaker 3: So I'm just overanalyzed. And sometimes I have to stop
Speaker 3: myself from overanalyzing because that's just what happens in is
Speaker 3: you can stop, think, take a break, come back to it.
Speaker 3: But on stage it's just all go, you know.
Speaker 1: Is it too many inputs live? Is that kind of
Speaker 1: why you maybe have to blunt some of that or
Speaker 1: try to block it out versus in the studio, where's
Speaker 1: a little more controlled and.
Speaker 2: A little more well.
Speaker 3: In the studio, I think that's where a lot of
Speaker 3: the input most especially if people like if I'm working
Speaker 3: with other people, because you know, it's just everybody's giving input,
Speaker 3: everybody's giving them opinions, like all in real time, just oh,
Speaker 3: maybe do that again or you you know, I might
Speaker 3: think I just nailed something like that's that's something.
Speaker 2: Like what I gotta like, I gotta battle my ego,
Speaker 2: Like all right, I'll do it again, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean? So uh, in the audience, if somebody says
Speaker 2: it sucked, I'd be.
Speaker 3: Like, great, let's let me let me stay on that
Speaker 3: note even more like it's like I'm the smartest suck
Speaker 3: shit in your face now, you know what I mean.
Speaker 3: I turned it to the villain maybe on stage, but
Speaker 3: in the studio, I'm just very analytical of everything.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm like, I sit with everything.
Speaker 1: Has that been true your entire recording career too, you think?
Speaker 1: Or is it has that changed a bit from when
Speaker 1: you first got in the studio? But the first album, Firstborn,
Speaker 1: second too, just brightness.
Speaker 3: Now I think it's changed as far as like who
Speaker 3: I bring in the studio to give me that their opinions.
Speaker 3: You know, when I first started off, like I didn't
Speaker 3: have to say who was in there, giving me their opinions.
Speaker 3: You know, everybody felt like they were there to mold me,
Speaker 3: and you know I was just too listen, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's gotta be a weird position too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It took some getting used to, especially when I first
Speaker 3: started recording, because I came straight from university college, you know,
Speaker 3: just straight artsy kind of thing, and I was I
Speaker 3: think when I first started off, I was a lot
Speaker 3: more defensive because of that, because I was just very
Speaker 3: militant on what I wanted to do, how I wanted
Speaker 3: to do it. And I was like that in school,
Speaker 3: you know, like I went to a I went to
Speaker 3: a music conservatory and all I did was argue with
Speaker 3: the teachers all day.
Speaker 2: So they were happy to see me go.
Speaker 1: You know, do you ever did you keep up with
Speaker 1: any of them or not? Was it really?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: One of my one of my like most infamous teachers,
Speaker 3: we wounded up being really close, Janet Loss, and she
Speaker 3: passed not too long ago, but we started off really
Speaker 3: rocky because she was like a vocal teacher. And my
Speaker 3: whole thing was I don't want to study with no singer.
Speaker 2: Singer suck, you know, I don't want to study with
Speaker 2: nobody that sings jazz.
Speaker 3: Like and she kind of had that same mentality. But
Speaker 3: jazz musicians it's almost like athletes. I look at jazz musicians.
Speaker 3: They have the same sensibility of athletes, you know, and
Speaker 3: they will sit there and argue with each other and
Speaker 3: just I always want to one up, or let's battle.
Speaker 3: You're not playing changes quite right. But so that's what
Speaker 3: me and her would get into the arguments of I
Speaker 3: don't like the way you sing over that, and I'm like,
Speaker 3: this is jazz. I can sing it over all ever
Speaker 3: I want. And she's like, yeah, but you're not singing
Speaker 3: the chort changes. And it's like my whole thing was
Speaker 3: I would go to jazz theory class and be like, yeah,
Speaker 3: but you do know this is theory, so you're just
Speaker 3: telling me your theory of how to do it. I
Speaker 3: don't have to do it like that, though, And that
Speaker 3: would just whoa.
Speaker 2: Kick off.
Speaker 3: That would kick off, especially for like the older jazz musicians.
Speaker 3: Oh man, it will almost be like, all right, let's
Speaker 3: in the class and go out and take this outside then,
Speaker 3: young man.
Speaker 2: But they remember me because of that.
Speaker 3: You know, a lot of times in university, the students
Speaker 3: don't really challenge the teacher, you know, and when they are,
Speaker 3: they're like shut down.
Speaker 2: So I just refused it.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: I didn't really want to do vocals anyway, you know,
Speaker 3: and I felt like I want to do I wanted
Speaker 3: to be a musician, but the musicians do want it
Speaker 3: wouldn't want to accept me. I was just like a
Speaker 3: mad villain, just walking around, this grumpy.
Speaker 1: That's painful man, Like.
Speaker 2: Hey guys, I can scat.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 3: It wasn't until I really started like, man, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: I'm gonna start learning change it, just like the cats,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Where it started to work out for me.
Speaker 3: And then I when I discovered Bobby McFerrin, it was.
Speaker 1: Over, Yo, tell me about that.
Speaker 3: Man, Like Bobby McFerrin was just he didn't even use
Speaker 3: words much and I was like, that's that's that's my
Speaker 3: stick right there, Like I don't he really turned his
Speaker 3: voice into an instrument and that really like it turned
Speaker 3: the light on in college for me.
Speaker 1: Man, I gotta I gotta digg into some Bobby.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he did a whole album that the one that
Speaker 3: really like got me. He did a whole album with
Speaker 3: Chick Area, just him and Chick Area what and it
Speaker 3: was just magic. And my friend of mine, well, Robert Glasper,
Speaker 3: we went to we went to college together and we
Speaker 3: got to see chick Corea and Bobby do duet at
Speaker 3: the Blue Note and it was boom, just like.
Speaker 1: Wow, wow, wow, when did when did you get put
Speaker 1: onto him?
Speaker 2: In college? Right?
Speaker 3: I knew I knew Bobby being fair and from the
Speaker 3: you know, don't worry, be happy. But in college I
Speaker 3: would hang out at the the Vinyl library a lot
Speaker 3: and just listen to vinyl all day.
Speaker 1: Is that that was at your square, to vinyl library
Speaker 1: at your school. That's really cool.
Speaker 3: That's another place to like really like did something to
Speaker 3: me musically?
Speaker 2: You know. It wasn't really the classes. It was like
Speaker 2: developing arguments and then going to the vital.
Speaker 1: Library to prove my theories. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so yeah, I felt that. I was like, yeah,
Speaker 3: this is it, Like he was really even the way
Speaker 3: he was getting he was like challenging chit, you know
Speaker 3: even and that's like chick Rea like wow, Biden fairness,
Speaker 3: nasty nasty.
Speaker 1: Word, that's really wild, because yeah, all I knew him
Speaker 1: for was I don't want to be happy as well,
Speaker 1: and I love that as a kid by the way, right,
Speaker 1: I mean I still love it now, but it's great.
Speaker 1: I mean even though you know, man another the number
Speaker 1: one jam you know, I mean public enemy kind of
Speaker 1: turned me off for a minute, but still still.
Speaker 3: Not only not only in the jazz world, but also
Speaker 3: even in a classical world. He's like an accomplished uh.
Speaker 2: For the you yeah really high up?
Speaker 1: Wow? Have you gotten to hang with him? No?
Speaker 3: But I know his his children, his his his daughter
Speaker 3: Maddie mc ferrence, Madison, uh Madison. I known her for
Speaker 3: a minute. I know him his tailor, Taylor for a
Speaker 3: long minute. So yeah, I'm gonna Taylor from like when
Speaker 3: I first moved to New York. Really m h no,
Speaker 3: I didn't even know that that was his dad was
Speaker 3: Bidy mcpherrins, So.
Speaker 2: That like blew my mind when I found out about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's pretty.
Speaker 3: Because he when I met Taylor, he was doing interesting
Speaker 3: stuff like that through the beat boxing and he would
Speaker 3: be boxing then be playing keys at the same time school.
Speaker 3: So it was almost like on that same kind of
Speaker 3: thing but taking it to another level.
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Speaker 1: their inviting, vibrant cafe atmosphere. And something that I've always
Speaker 1: loved about the cafe ambiance is the coffee house music
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Speaker 1: houses around the country and around Canada. Coffee houses were
Speaker 1: proving grounds, no backing band, no effects, just a guitar
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Speaker 1: strato frappuccino blended beverage is ready at Starbucks. Who else
Speaker 1: free at that time, like when you were developing, like
Speaker 1: vocally was or not even vocally, just whether it's vocal
Speaker 1: a vocalist and instrumentalist. Who was who was like pouring
Speaker 1: into at that time, like in that vinyl library? What
Speaker 1: were you? Do You think that still sticks with you
Speaker 1: even maybe too?
Speaker 3: Oh well, I got into Indian music like Robbie Shankar was.
Speaker 3: I was deep into Robbie Shankar because I started to
Speaker 3: try and try to figure out my own like special
Speaker 3: phrasings or special vowels for scatting.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: So I went down this school like uh rabbit hole
Speaker 3: of Japanese throat singing and uh and in Indian music.
Speaker 1: And that would help you change, like think about how
Speaker 1: to approach vowels.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because a lot of their the throat singing they
Speaker 3: could they had this method. The only other person I've
Speaker 3: seen that has mastered it is uh Layla Hathaway's.
Speaker 2: She can sing like three notes at once like a
Speaker 2: chord like be like a minor chord like what Yeah.
Speaker 3: She can like separate her vocal corus to play three
Speaker 3: notes at once.
Speaker 2: And she can do it.
Speaker 1: Like how you learned that?
Speaker 2: I don't I keep it. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I asked her how. She said she was born knowing
Speaker 3: how to do it. Wow mm hmmm, Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know how.
Speaker 3: I don't know how she did it, but I know
Speaker 3: there's it's a genre.
Speaker 2: It's definitely a genre.
Speaker 3: So that and Robbie Shanekarr and his daughters and dope
Speaker 3: Indian music. They they get into NBA two between notes,
Speaker 3: so our scals like eight notes or like seven notes,
Speaker 3: and then it goes into that octive note. They have
Speaker 3: this thing called ghost notes where there's like semi tones,
Speaker 3: small middle or ascending tones in between the actual tone
Speaker 3: that we claim.
Speaker 1: So between like an E and and F there's like something.
Speaker 2: Else, there's like three other tones that they know of. Wow.
Speaker 1: So yeah, can you hear those?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: And no, it depends on the setting, Like it in
Speaker 3: a drone situation where it's like.
Speaker 2: You can kind of hear the those type of things.
Speaker 3: But if it's something where the core changes is moving
Speaker 3: around a lot, you can't, well I can't you know.
Speaker 1: It's like in the B box that it would be impossible.
Speaker 2: No, but if you were to listen to.
Speaker 3: Coltrane when he would get into like a lot of
Speaker 3: his Love Supreme stuff, or you could hear those those
Speaker 3: semi tony he was doing it. Wow, he was deep
Speaker 3: into Robby Shankar and those whole He started making up
Speaker 3: all different types of scales to kind of like buying
Speaker 3: those in between notes.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I've seen some, like i've seen pictures. I
Speaker 1: haven't studied them or anything, but I've seen like copies
Speaker 1: of like journals he would write, and you see these
Speaker 1: really bugged out diagrams he would draw somehow connecting this
Speaker 1: note to that, no, to that. You know, I don't
Speaker 1: know that circle.
Speaker 2: It was like a circle of fifth thing. I think
Speaker 2: I know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it was a little different than a circle
Speaker 1: of fist maybe or something like. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: seem a little like more intense, like the basic circle
Speaker 1: of fists kind of thing. But yeah, like it seemed
Speaker 1: like he was really searching.
Speaker 3: For he unlocked something, and it was like based off
Speaker 3: of that those in between notes.
Speaker 1: We would like any of the classics that resonated with you,
Speaker 1: like you scouting, like I always think of like elphanz
Speaker 1: Gerald as a scatter, Did any of that resonate with
Speaker 1: you or less?
Speaker 2: Was dope?
Speaker 3: She I definitely started by checking out a lot of LA,
Speaker 3: a lot of serv On. Then I got into Betty Carter,
Speaker 3: and Betty Carter is like my favorite. I met Betty
Speaker 3: Carter when I was a kid. I sang for her.
Speaker 3: She told me I sucked, and that's awesome.
Speaker 1: What was the what was the context of this?
Speaker 3: Oh man, it was, uh Jazz I was a part
Speaker 3: of this like after school program and in high school,
Speaker 3: Settlement at Settlement Music School, and she would come to
Speaker 3: a lot of the school programs back in the day
Speaker 3: and jam with the kids. And we had a big
Speaker 3: assembly and uh, everybody was like, go up there.
Speaker 2: Sing for Betty, sing, sing, sing, So I was like.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah, you know, and I really thought I was
Speaker 3: like killing him on the scag game.
Speaker 2: And she she sang, that's not it, that's not it.
Speaker 2: You singing too many notes. You're not giving the people
Speaker 2: a chance to reminisce. He said, people reminisce when you
Speaker 2: when you're actually not singing. And she was singing all
Speaker 2: of this, but like she was trashing you washing because
Speaker 2: I went up there shout it up beat my.
Speaker 3: I was going in and she was like, nah, baby,
Speaker 3: it's too many notes. He's like, and I never forget that.
Speaker 3: She said, you know, you gotta watch how many notes
Speaker 3: you sing? Or where you place the notes, because you
Speaker 3: got to give the listener time to catch up and
Speaker 3: to reflect, because that's what draws people to the music,
Speaker 3: when they have something that reminds them of their own life,
Speaker 3: you know, and you got to give them an opening
Speaker 3: for that, you know. And the music is really a
Speaker 3: portal for the listener's memories to like take place.
Speaker 1: What do you what do you think about that?
Speaker 3: As a I didn't know what she was talking about
Speaker 3: as a kid, but like like now, I don't know,
Speaker 3: I never forgot that and now and as a as
Speaker 3: a writer, as a producer, that's like the main thing
Speaker 3: I'm thinking of when I'm in a studio, Like I
Speaker 3: want the listener this song to be some type of
Speaker 3: a time capsule for them, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was thinking about when you first came out,
Speaker 1: how we were kind of in an era where people
Speaker 1: didn't really respect virtuoso virtuosic talent, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: don't even know if Kendrick Lamar could have been as
Speaker 1: Populus is now then.
Speaker 2: What and not you think so hm hmm, yeah.
Speaker 1: Not in about but in the sense of and I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say this, but I love I love no limit
Speaker 1: and I love all I love all of No Limit,
Speaker 1: But it feels like that was a different a different
Speaker 1: thing happening then. No.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think it was like it's still like
Speaker 2: a counter culture from like what the Roots was doing
Speaker 2: or a slum village. There was like counter culture of
Speaker 2: of of music.
Speaker 1: It definitely feels counter it felt, That's what I guess,
Speaker 1: And that's what I mean, is it felt at that
Speaker 1: time like a counter culture, whereas now it feels like
Speaker 1: it could be of the culture same way that like
Speaker 1: a lot of the stuff like that.
Speaker 3: I guess it's biggest Kendrick is now back then, I
Speaker 3: don't know, because I look at the way kendred it's
Speaker 3: very intentional about the art and very you could tell
Speaker 3: he thinks about it.
Speaker 2: I see that.
Speaker 3: The way Outcast was dropping those records back then, you know,
Speaker 3: it was like wow, artistically like they were like stepping
Speaker 3: it up every record and it was like wow, and
Speaker 3: it was accepted and it was crossing over.
Speaker 2: You know, they were they were doing their thing.
Speaker 1: That's a good point. That's a good point. I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I'm happy to be wrong on the point. Happy to
Speaker 1: be wrong. It just felt like all the ship I
Speaker 1: like back then was more subculture more for sure, like
Speaker 1: you know, like the way like you know, like in
Speaker 1: the nineties, like alternative music had its like it crossed
Speaker 1: over finally and it was like all the ship from
Speaker 1: the Ramones through like whatever. All of a sudden, it
Speaker 1: was like it was in like Bagel bytes commercials or whatever,
Speaker 1: like wait, why didn't one and like this in like
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight, you know or not no One? But
Speaker 1: why didn't you know what I mean, Like you couldn't
Speaker 1: get this on like CBS in nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2: I don't know what.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what this era of the cool
Speaker 3: kids is, but I feel like that's because I'm older.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: But also it seems like people really at a well
Speaker 1: yes and no, maybe musically at least except like I
Speaker 1: think about like how a Thundercat has, Like it seems
Speaker 1: like the fact that a critical massive people can accept
Speaker 1: that level of talent is a good sign to me,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And so it does feel
Speaker 1: like we're in an era of people really recognizing musically
Speaker 1: at least like superb supreme talent, you know, even the
Speaker 1: back like I don't know whatever. Not to get controversial,
Speaker 1: but the backlash against Drake or whatever. You know, it's like.
Speaker 2: Music.
Speaker 1: But that's but it is also in some way a
Speaker 1: positive sign, you know, and there's not a lot of
Speaker 1: positive things, you know, there's not a lot of things
Speaker 1: pointing towards the post is the future so much necessarily always,
Speaker 1: But that feels like one of those things where you're like, oh,
Speaker 1: it's like a cool bell weather for what could could be.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is dope. You know that.
Speaker 3: For a minute there, I thought all of society could
Speaker 3: be programmed to like one thing and then that was it,
Speaker 3: you know, But that did like put in my head that, yeah, well,
Speaker 3: you know, the people can speak, you know, and the
Speaker 3: people like a variety of things, and they should have
Speaker 3: that lead way in the marketplace to like a variety
Speaker 3: of things instead of just this is what's dope and
Speaker 3: anything outside of that it's not dope, you know. I
Speaker 3: think that's I don't know if that's only in America though,
Speaker 3: you think what.
Speaker 1: Seems like outside of America people have always been a
Speaker 1: little more open, you know, I don't know, right like.
Speaker 2: And I think that's just a marketing thing.
Speaker 1: Definitely think it's the market I think people, including Americans,
Speaker 1: think Americans are stupid. So I think then we market
Speaker 1: ourselves like we're idiots, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: we can't we can't make decisions, you know, like we
Speaker 1: find boxes for things because we're fucking idiots.
Speaker 2: Because it's a marketplace. Everything is a marketplace.
Speaker 3: Everything is to be sold. You know, you just got
Speaker 3: to find the right marketing pitch. I can pick up
Speaker 3: a piece of dirt off the floor, and you know,
Speaker 3: if I got that gift of gab, I'm gonna make
Speaker 3: some money.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yes, it's funny. Like I got to put out
Speaker 1: an interview with Daryl Hall and they got a bunch
Speaker 1: of pickup because, like I asked himself. You know, it's
Speaker 1: interesting to me when I go when I listened, I
Speaker 1: wasn't around when Holland Oas was was hitting in the
Speaker 1: late seventies and eighties, or when the Dubie Brothers were
Speaker 1: But you know, I listen to that stuff now and
Speaker 1: you're like, this is clearly just white dudes that love
Speaker 1: R and B, R and B. And you know, I
Speaker 1: was like when I was talking to Michael McDonald once,
Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, like Warner Brothers didn't know what
Speaker 1: to do with us because we're white dude. So they
Speaker 1: wanted to market us to rock radio, but Rock Ray
Speaker 1: didn't want to play us because we sounded like like
Speaker 1: R and B like black dudes. But like they, Warner
Speaker 1: couldn't get it in their head to like play us
Speaker 1: on black radio. But finally some black radio promoter at
Speaker 1: Warner was like, this guy to go to black radio.
Speaker 1: Black radio started playing it. But then you know, the
Speaker 1: labels just started calling it adult contemporary or soft rock
Speaker 1: or whatever you know, AO or I oriented rock, like
Speaker 1: they would have these phrases for it. So I was asking,
Speaker 1: I was asking about that. He's like, yeah, well, fuck
Speaker 1: yacht rock like they you know, they're trying to like
Speaker 1: and You're like, I I kind of see his point.
Speaker 1: Like he's a dude. He just loves Philly dude, Philly dude.
Speaker 1: I know he can't. He kept it wrong rock, you know,
Speaker 1: he just love R and B and before a guy
Speaker 1: has to get a label yacht rock or whatever, you know.
Speaker 1: And I felt this pain, you know, like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, man, that's the way I felt about Neil Soul.
Speaker 2: What is that?
Speaker 3: Like it's just a marketing term, Like I felt like
Speaker 3: we were just cats that loved hip hop, but found
Speaker 3: those seventies uh instruments from the that were used from
Speaker 3: those records that we were sampling, and was like, well,
Speaker 3: let's just use those.
Speaker 1: Instruments, yeah, instead the sampling, let's just pull out of
Speaker 1: roads in.
Speaker 3: Right, instead of getting sued on every instead of not
Speaker 3: making no money from the track, because it's they're taking
Speaker 3: all of the publishing, Like, let's make up our own loops,
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, and use those instruments. So try to
Speaker 3: figure out how how they recorded it to get that sound.
Speaker 2: I thought that's what we were doing.
Speaker 3: But it still had it had the integrity of soul music,
Speaker 3: so it still had that soul in it. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: why say it reminds you of soul?
Speaker 1: You know, that's a good call. Yeah, it did have
Speaker 1: the to your point, it had the feeling of you know,
Speaker 1: whether it's like an send it's like a soul man.
Speaker 1: Like what it was like you felt when you when
Speaker 1: you heard the term soul man. You feel like that's
Speaker 1: a stand up brother, who's gonna you.
Speaker 2: Know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Whatever they have that like, these are these are these
Speaker 1: are these are people really serious about their what they do,
Speaker 1: Like it's no joke. So I have that, but yeah,
Speaker 1: to just call it Neil Soul and and then for
Speaker 1: that to become like a thing of you guys just
Speaker 1: making derivative music, like that's that's crazy.
Speaker 3: I think this labels on music sucks because it's just
Speaker 3: it keeps you in a box. It keeps the listener
Speaker 3: in the box, and then it forces the artists into
Speaker 3: a box because they want to still try and make
Speaker 3: money and they think that that audience wants to hear
Speaker 3: whatever is in that box.
Speaker 2: So there's they don't want to go out of that box.
Speaker 2: So it just.
Speaker 3: Everything in that box. If it gets played out, nobody
Speaker 3: wants to hear it no more. The whole box gets
Speaker 3: just thrown out.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, I don't know how we got it. But
Speaker 1: that brings me back to what I was gonna say,
Speaker 1: which is that this album is cool because it sounds
Speaker 1: in a lot of ways like almost like what would
Speaker 1: have been like the natural progression for like maybe like
Speaker 1: your third album if your second album hadn't gotten shoved.
Speaker 1: But it also is very in so many ways also
Speaker 1: like out of the box.
Speaker 4: For for what we think of as a ball record,
Speaker 4: like like this like Sunshine, which is is like I
Speaker 4: don't think I've ever heard anything like that from you,
Speaker 4: and it's incredible, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, like I said, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean when I go into the studio, I'm just
Speaker 3: making stuff that I like, that feels good, and you
Speaker 3: know that I'm challenging myself. Yeah, I call them beautiful mistakes.
Speaker 3: Especially with this album. We were just doing a bunch
Speaker 3: of accidents or in the studio, like doing something and
Speaker 3: then out of nowhere, like something will fall on the
Speaker 3: keyboard or like the guitars will be playing the kick
Speaker 3: accord and something to go. We're like, whoa, but what
Speaker 3: was that? Like erase everything, but keep that part.
Speaker 2: Let's start from there, you know, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: And from that it would turn into something else. It
Speaker 3: was like just a bunch of adventures that kind of
Speaker 3: happened by accident, just like this little inquisitive kids.
Speaker 1: You know, after this last break, we'll be back with
Speaker 1: the rest of my conversation with the law. Who are
Speaker 1: you in the studio with? On some album?
Speaker 3: On this album, I worked with you know, Robert Robert
Speaker 3: glassfer On on a track.
Speaker 1: I worked with.
Speaker 3: My core, my core people that I've been playing with
Speaker 3: in my band free years Tony Whitfield and Simon. I
Speaker 3: always forget Simon's producer's name, so he's going to smash
Speaker 3: me or Flana Flanna fly, but incredible.
Speaker 2: This is a young all young music year.
Speaker 1: He's a guitarist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're a guitarist, yeah, and guitarist, phenomenal producer. I
Speaker 3: worked with Kareem Riggins. It's amazing, uh man wonder it's
Speaker 3: also an awesome producer from Philly. I think he's out
Speaker 3: here in l A now. And Jeriy Khan who's a
Speaker 3: producer in Brooklyn. So this is just all my friends.
Speaker 3: Really forget Simon's last name, but he plays in Hyat's Coyote.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Marvin.
Speaker 2: Simon, Marvin Simon, if you watch this, dude, I love you. Man.
Speaker 2: I just don't on anybody's last names. Sorry.
Speaker 1: And was a lot of the writing done in studio
Speaker 1: or did you? Did? You have a lot going there?
Speaker 3: On some of the songs, I would write alone, but
Speaker 3: I also worked with my two writer friends, Hezekiah he's
Speaker 3: a MC from Philly and MC from Philly under the
Speaker 3: name Chemists.
Speaker 2: He's really dope. Hezekia has been uh.
Speaker 3: Working with me as far as lyrics, go for maybe
Speaker 3: since all the way back to my second my second album,
Speaker 3: air Tys Revenge from air Tys Revenge all the way
Speaker 3: up till now, and I produced and wrote a lot
Speaker 3: of that out of Philly and my old collaborator that
Speaker 3: I used to work with in the in that second album,
Speaker 3: Steve McKee Steve Steve Udo was right, Steve McKeith and
Speaker 3: Hezekia had their studios kind of in the same building.
Speaker 3: So I would just hang out at everybody's face and
Speaker 3: we would call has to come up just to hang
Speaker 3: and then you know, like I said, when I'm in
Speaker 3: the studio and everybody's in the room, I asked everybody
Speaker 3: to be involved. Yeah, if my wife came to the studio,
Speaker 3: I would ask her to be involved somehow. Like my
Speaker 3: wife has written lyrics, written lyrics to some some songs.
Speaker 3: Like I'll write some stuff and be like this sounds stupid,
Speaker 3: what would you think? And because my wife is a
Speaker 3: good writer, U but she writes, like really writes like
Speaker 3: essays and books and stuff like that. But I ask anybody,
Speaker 3: so now, if I don't have anybody to bounce stuff off,
Speaker 3: I make colachas And that's how I, uh, the latter
Speaker 3: part of the record. I just started getting really uh
Speaker 3: into these collages.
Speaker 1: How are you making these collages? How do how do
Speaker 1: they start? How do they sound?
Speaker 2: Oh? Well, it's like a word collage.
Speaker 3: So I'll write something down and if I'm not really
Speaker 3: like sure what it is, I'll i'll put it. I'll
Speaker 3: put it aside and I'll start writing something else that
Speaker 3: don't have nothing to do with it, just without the
Speaker 3: music on, and I'll just start writing writing, and then
Speaker 3: I'll I'll take the other paper that I was trying
Speaker 3: to write lyrics to.
Speaker 1: And you're writing to the music to that one.
Speaker 3: And I'll cut it up, like with some scissors, cut
Speaker 3: it up, cut up, and then I'll take the other
Speaker 3: page that I was just writing random stuff on.
Speaker 2: I'll cut that up and I'll just paste them all together.
Speaker 1: Like lines, full lines, but I'll.
Speaker 2: Cut it down and i'll just you know, pace them back.
Speaker 1: Together and just kind of move him around.
Speaker 3: Until I got that idea from Donald Fagan. Like I
Speaker 3: was reading an article. Donald Fagan said that's how he
Speaker 3: wrote his lyrics and Big Black Cow. I was like,
Speaker 3: what I'm gonna do that?
Speaker 2: And it worked.
Speaker 1: That's crazy, No wonder Steally Dan lyrics. It kind of
Speaker 1: makes sense though.
Speaker 2: The lyrics kind of make sense, but don't.
Speaker 1: Onder like I Sometimes I just feel like, I know
Speaker 1: those guys are genius, and sometimes I'm like, I'm stupid.
Speaker 1: I don't I kind of get where he's going one
Speaker 1: hundred percent.
Speaker 3: See, Yeah, man, I want to sit down with with
Speaker 3: with ghost Face and ask him because I feel.
Speaker 2: Like he's doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, ghost Face might get it. Ghost Face is
Speaker 1: on that level. He's the best man. Earlier, you were saying, like,
Speaker 1: early on in your career, you felt very much like
Speaker 1: dictated to in a sense, very much like like like
Speaker 1: you couldn't maybe you were hemmed in and unable to
Speaker 1: make a decision on decisions for yourself or maybe I'm
Speaker 1: extrapolating too far.
Speaker 2: Yes and no.
Speaker 3: You know, I felt like it started off as you know,
Speaker 3: we want you to just get in here, do something different,
Speaker 3: do something crazy. But then they were like, wow, that's
Speaker 3: too crazy. We need to figure out how to like
Speaker 3: bring it in the real it ends. You know, this
Speaker 3: is and this is like interscope as a interscope or
Speaker 3: like I wasn't designed direct to interscope, so it was
Speaker 3: like production. I was under like a production company, so
Speaker 3: it was kind of who are you under? It was
Speaker 3: a production company called more Yo Music, So it was
Speaker 3: it's like three people where they were James and Too
Speaker 3: May's sons. No Way, yeah, and so these cats that
Speaker 3: I respect their musicianship, Yeah, but it was just I
Speaker 3: don't think they were telling me like we need to
Speaker 3: dumb you down to make you pop. They were just like,
Speaker 3: this is so wild.
Speaker 2: How are we gonna sell this? Man? Know?
Speaker 1: What is there a version of your first album that
Speaker 1: is a little like are there versions of those songs
Speaker 1: or other songs that are a little more.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a there's lots of song. We did so
Speaker 3: many songs. I do so many songs for records, and
Speaker 3: then I just sit back like we what of this
Speaker 3: is a record?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: Especially for that first record, it was we did so
Speaker 3: many songs, work with so many people. Wow, Like I
Speaker 3: did like four songs with Dyla, but we only yeah,
Speaker 3: well we only chose one. So that and then when
Speaker 3: I went to do my second album, I was I
Speaker 3: came to the label to have Dyla do the whole album.
Speaker 3: So before Dyla passed, we were working like I was
Speaker 3: at it at his house it's like we did like
Speaker 3: six songs in Detroit and then he moved out to La.
Speaker 3: It was like got to be like six unfinished tunes.
Speaker 1: Wow. So the version that got leaked wasn't necessarily like.
Speaker 2: Those songs that got leaked were like the songs that
Speaker 2: I produced.
Speaker 1: So that wasn't like the album as it was gonna
Speaker 1: come out the way that it was.
Speaker 3: Just whoever was working with the people that were mixing
Speaker 3: the album, they just like some of the stuff that
Speaker 3: like the unfinished mixes of the because Dyla didn't Dyla
Speaker 3: mixed all his stuff itself. So like I said, he
Speaker 3: had started getting six So we just went in and
Speaker 3: started mixing the songs that I had produced, and those
Speaker 3: were the ones that got leaked.
Speaker 1: Sorrow, Tears and Blood. That was that you and Dilla.
Speaker 2: No, that was just me.
Speaker 1: That was just you, Okay because someone online someone said
Speaker 1: that it was Dylan and I was always.
Speaker 3: No, No I produced that, but I had I was
Speaker 3: bringing in a lot of different people like to kind
Speaker 3: of be a part of it, like Za Mama Calm
Speaker 3: and came and he wrapped on the last half of it.
Speaker 3: But it was it was for a sorrow, cheers and
Speaker 3: Blood project. They were doing a Feila Cootie project that
Speaker 3: wasn't even for my second album. Really around that time
Speaker 3: that that's what had happened. I had I convinced the
Speaker 3: label to allow me to produce six songs by myself
Speaker 3: and then let Jay Dilla come in and produce six
Speaker 3: songs and then we make an album.
Speaker 1: And they were in on that.
Speaker 2: They were in on it until they heard what I
Speaker 2: was doing.
Speaker 1: Did they hear the stuff that was leaked?
Speaker 2: That's when they leaked it.
Speaker 1: What didn't they like about it?
Speaker 3: They didn't like it, But then when it got leaked, ironically,
Speaker 3: they came back and was like, this stuff's amazing.
Speaker 2: I was like, what the yeah, this.
Speaker 1: Is amazing, like incredible cuts a. I me what was
Speaker 1: Jimmy ivying?
Speaker 3: Like, oh man, that's hilarious. Jimmy didn't know what to
Speaker 3: think about it. He was just like, this is not
Speaker 3: R and B. So then I was like, well, what's
Speaker 3: R and B? Then, Jimmy so you would be like, okay, okay,
Speaker 3: you want to play that game. Let's get doctor dre
Speaker 3: in here.
Speaker 2: So Doctor j was like, this ain't this ain't R
Speaker 2: and B.
Speaker 3: It's a hybrid. I know, exactly what it is, so
Speaker 3: signing me and I was like.
Speaker 2: Okay, how do I do this.
Speaker 3: In the midst of that, I guess somebody that I
Speaker 3: you know, I don't want to out anyone, out anyone,
Speaker 3: but when they heard the people that they thought would
Speaker 3: say it sucked, was like, actually, I could do something
Speaker 3: with this.
Speaker 2: It got the leaked.
Speaker 1: So someone blocked you from signing to DRE.
Speaker 3: I don't think somebody blocked me from signing and Dre.
Speaker 3: I just think once I started working the project with Dre,
Speaker 3: the music that I had already worked on got leaked.
Speaker 3: I guess in an effort to have me just start
Speaker 3: from scratch, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: Damn, that's the way it came to me.
Speaker 3: It was like, oh, everything's leaked, so I guess we
Speaker 3: gotta start from the top.
Speaker 1: I was like, what, but theoretically you could have started
Speaker 1: from the top, but you said fuck that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean I tried, man, but I was just I
Speaker 3: felt like I was doing a whole new album. I
Speaker 3: just kind of lost what I would wear. I was
Speaker 3: what was happening? Yeah, yeah, you know. And in the
Speaker 3: in the middle of that, like the business side just
Speaker 3: went into estellemate I think the the production label that
Speaker 3: I was under kind of changed homes. They went to
Speaker 3: another label, So it was just a bunch of label
Speaker 3: stuff started happening. And at the same time that the
Speaker 3: record was bootlegs, so it was just everything was up
Speaker 3: in the air.
Speaker 1: Drey must have loved you, though, I imagine, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I still I still talked to Dre
Speaker 3: every now and then.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so you guys made music. Still.
Speaker 2: I don't know what Dre's doing, but I know maybe
Speaker 2: one day. Still, I loved Dre.
Speaker 3: I love everything he's doing, and I think the last
Speaker 3: time I saw him, we would I went into the
Speaker 3: studio to hang out with Anderson Pack and he came
Speaker 3: through when we was just hanging Yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Were you when you went into the stew with him
Speaker 1: to do stuff? H firstborn? Second, I guess you would
Speaker 1: have in a high school when Chronic came out or
Speaker 1: close to Was that like in your or did you
Speaker 1: kind of some some of these some people on these coasts.
Speaker 1: I feel like I missed that a bit. You know.
Speaker 3: When I was in high school, I knew of the
Speaker 3: Chronic because my brother was big in hip hop. But
Speaker 3: when I was in high school, I was kind of
Speaker 3: like a jazz snob, Like I was like, nah, man,
Speaker 3: you know, only through that I really like was like, oh.
Speaker 2: THATX kind of hip is like.
Speaker 3: Tropical quest because I knew the jazz samples, you know,
Speaker 3: I was kind of approude. But by the time I
Speaker 3: got to the second Chronic, I was already in in college,
Speaker 3: you know, I was loving it.
Speaker 2: So by the time I got to the studio, I
Speaker 2: was full on like.
Speaker 3: A static yeah something there with Doctor Dre And it's crazy.
Speaker 3: You know they always say you really want something to happen,
Speaker 3: you write it down, and I literally wrote down all
Speaker 3: the people that I wanted to work with and I
Speaker 3: worked with all of them.
Speaker 2: Wow, And so that was crazy. It was in there.
Speaker 2: I was just like, this is magic, This is magic.
Speaker 3: And I felt at home because Scott Storch was there,
Speaker 3: and Scott Storch from Philly.
Speaker 1: So Philly got another Philly guy right of course.
Speaker 2: So we were just in there high five and it
Speaker 2: was just it was awesome.
Speaker 1: Damn it. Did he did he had he heard of
Speaker 1: you by that point, like Scott or what did he
Speaker 1: know you from Philly?
Speaker 2: I knew Scott from Philly.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 2: So it was it was great.
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Questlove tells a great story about how Sometimes
Speaker 1: came to be in this in the glasshouse record or
Speaker 1: live session. I don't know how you want to frame that.
Speaker 1: Which is an incredible I mean it's it's streaming. People
Speaker 1: should listen to and watch it on YouTube. It's phenomenal,
Speaker 1: so well done well, i mean, directed, well performed everything.
Speaker 1: That's an incredible piece than you. Uh, But Questum tells
Speaker 1: us a pretty pretty funny story about how Sometimes came
Speaker 1: to be. Can you tell that from your perspective?
Speaker 3: Well, by the time I had came to the studio,
Speaker 3: they were kind of like already joking around, playing playing
Speaker 3: the record in the way our mirror and James produced.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like just one big jam session. So
Speaker 3: they were just in there laughing, joking, and I came in,
Speaker 3: just got on the mic and just started freestyling over
Speaker 3: top their joke, their banter.
Speaker 1: They're poking fun at comn from missing out on the road.
Speaker 1: Maybe the most death y'all seen Bay. Yeah, And.
Speaker 3: You know, it was just a bunch of bunch of
Speaker 3: laughing and joking coming, you know, and different switch ups
Speaker 3: in the music they would do as jokes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and.
Speaker 3: You know, they'll play a ton of different shapes and
Speaker 3: then at the end they was like, all right, you
Speaker 3: picked from that and then we'll come back and make
Speaker 3: it a whole track. But when I heard them, I
Speaker 3: didn't know it was a joke. I just went in
Speaker 3: right in there and started singing along. They were like, hey,
Speaker 3: what is this this working? And some of the freestyle.
Speaker 3: I changed some of the lyrics, but most of sometimes
Speaker 3: was just right off. Sometimes I wish I was with me,
Speaker 3: sometimes I wish I was a drug free I was
Speaker 3: just I thought I was just going going in with
Speaker 3: the bands back, you know.
Speaker 1: So, Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 2: It's like a freestyle song.
Speaker 1: It's insane, says. It's at the end of the story.
Speaker 1: He says it to where he's like, y'all were mixing up.
Speaker 1: Umi says, to make fun of comment with with Bill's
Speaker 1: bills bills I think from Destiny's Child because it was
Speaker 1: the car Man movie. D just started. Yeah, so but
Speaker 1: he said then at that he says, yeah, it was
Speaker 1: one take.
Speaker 3: The core of it, most of it, and then I
Speaker 3: just went back in and uh, put backgrounds vocals on there,
Speaker 3: and then just like some of the lyrics.
Speaker 2: I changed some of the lyrics, but like I said,
Speaker 2: most of it.
Speaker 1: Was just that was it much longer and you guys
Speaker 1: had to like trim it down.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it was like, man, it was almost like
Speaker 2: eight minutes just and then going into other stuff.
Speaker 3: But it didn't have a base on it. It was
Speaker 3: just our mere playing drums and James on the keyboards.
Speaker 3: And then later on they had Pino Palladino come in
Speaker 3: and that was one tape.
Speaker 2: Pino didn't even Pino didn't even know what was going on.
Speaker 3: It was it was just like, all right in two
Speaker 3: in two more bars, we won't go It's gonna go
Speaker 3: to another.
Speaker 2: It's gonna go on another gourd rady go New York
Speaker 2: and it kept everything.
Speaker 3: I loved it, or as on the spot as it
Speaker 3: could get.
Speaker 1: As far as the music, that's an amazing story, man,
Speaker 1: that's an amazing story.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I love it like I love it when it's like that,
Speaker 3: you know, that's just the music just comes out of you.
Speaker 3: When I was working with Dla, a lot of the
Speaker 3: music happened the same way.
Speaker 1: Really.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we did a song we just I did a
Speaker 3: song with Guru on his Jazmine task album.
Speaker 1: On volume one of that, right yeah, right, And.
Speaker 3: Me and Guru went out to Detroit and Del it
Speaker 3: was just in the studio. It was quiet, just like this,
Speaker 3: and he was just like and we was like, so,
Speaker 3: where's the music. He's like, oh, I was waiting for
Speaker 3: y'all to get here. Let me, let me put something together.
Speaker 3: And he did that whole everything. He just walked around
Speaker 3: collected like twenty vinyls and just all while we're talking
Speaker 3: and he's rolling blood on the vinyl just like yeah,
Speaker 3: so we oh man seen a minute and then he
Speaker 3: would just keep like one headphone on the whole time
Speaker 3: is just quiet and we just in there.
Speaker 2: He got games, so we playing games and stuff and
Speaker 2: then he's just like.
Speaker 3: And then like literally, I think that beat took him
Speaker 3: like not even ten minutes, because he was just boom,
Speaker 3: next record ten minutes. And then he would just turned
Speaker 3: their beat up just like that, and he's like whoa,
Speaker 3: And I was like, Yo, that's a lie. You you
Speaker 3: had this beat made? This was just a performed Like
Speaker 3: come on.
Speaker 1: He was like, nah, were there beats he took longer
Speaker 1: to make?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: Were there? I know?
Speaker 3: Every time I worked with him, he made it from nothing,
Speaker 3: damn even the drum sound.
Speaker 1: He was never struggling with anything like, oh I got
Speaker 1: this thing, I don't know what to.
Speaker 2: Do with nah.
Speaker 3: Even when he was like not feeling well, it was
Speaker 3: the same. His creativity didn't go nowhere.
Speaker 2: I thought.
Speaker 3: The last time I worked with him, he messed my
Speaker 3: head up the most because we were having a problem
Speaker 3: with some of the samples. It was one of the
Speaker 3: an rs from the label had came with me that
Speaker 3: time and we were like talking about some of the
Speaker 3: stuff and like clearing the samples, and he.
Speaker 2: Was like, what, I replay all this.
Speaker 3: He programmed, he knew, programmed all of the moves in
Speaker 3: the crib, replayed everything. What And I was like, what,
Speaker 3: I don't know your play bass? What the hell is
Speaker 3: going on?
Speaker 2: And he said, I don't know how to play?
Speaker 1: So so did he actually know or did he just
Speaker 1: had he just listen enough that he knew, Like he just.
Speaker 3: He said he didn't know, but I was like, yo,
Speaker 3: you're playing that and you killing it. He was like,
Speaker 3: I just know how to find the sounds that I want.
Speaker 1: Damn, man, that's amazing.
Speaker 3: And the crazy thing was the label had flew James
Speaker 3: Boyster out the next day to kind of replay the
Speaker 3: stuff that he sampled.
Speaker 2: And me and James was in there like what is
Speaker 2: going on? Like how did you? James was like I'm out, I'm.
Speaker 1: That's crazy.
Speaker 3: It's like he because we thought James was like the
Speaker 3: man at finding programming the moves, was like, wow, got
Speaker 3: the exact sounds like from.
Speaker 2: You know on the move. It's just that one noise.
Speaker 2: He blew my mind.
Speaker 1: Jesus, that's wild and did it just as fast as
Speaker 1: he would do chopping the beat.
Speaker 2: I was done.
Speaker 1: That's really wild. I'm gonna go back to the idea.
Speaker 1: Early on you were talking about your what was your
Speaker 1: high school teacher's name, mister King, Mister King, you're talking
Speaker 1: about how he also introduced you to the idea of
Speaker 1: dynamics and music essentially, and that's so present in your music.
Speaker 1: And you do a version of Since I've Been Loving
Speaker 1: You by Zeppelin. That's like that song has always floored
Speaker 1: me because again the dynamics where they go up and
Speaker 1: down with that song is and then the version you do,
Speaker 1: and there was one you did at like a root
Speaker 1: jam something you do since I've Been Loving You into
Speaker 1: everything in this right place, some believer, I think at
Speaker 1: the Cork this morning because I was like, dude, y'all
Speaker 1: are ridiculous. Man. Oh yeah, you guys are ridiculous. Man.
Speaker 3: That's a good The cool thing about the Roots say,
Speaker 3: they encompassed so many.
Speaker 2: Styles of music.
Speaker 3: I was always inspired by them, you know, Like I said,
Speaker 3: coming up in Philly, I would search out the Amyre
Speaker 3: jam sessions, you know, because he would have these impromptu
Speaker 3: jam sessions around the city and I would just try
Speaker 3: and find them. And ironically, like that's where I met
Speaker 3: some of the cool musicians that I know to this day. Like,
Speaker 3: I was just always, uh, I think drawn to that,
Speaker 3: and I always try to keep that element. And I
Speaker 3: always saw what the Roots was doing. It's like kind
Speaker 3: of the blueprint of what I wanted to do. I
Speaker 3: felt like it was the gateway to push what I
Speaker 3: had absorbed from college and jazz and how I like
Speaker 3: fused that in to uh, you know, the the popular culture.
Speaker 3: I would say, you know what I'm saying. I felt
Speaker 3: like they really were doing it.
Speaker 2: Man. It was just inspiring to this day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, I got I gotta put in requests that
Speaker 1: you and Kurt do a project together. Man. There's also
Speaker 1: another video. I can't find it anymore, man, but I
Speaker 1: ripped it so somewhere in my having in my heart
Speaker 1: drive somewhere. You guys on Falling when it was still
Speaker 1: the Late Show doing the roots on the other side
Speaker 1: ten years or so ago. Oh yeah, with the the strings.
Speaker 1: But there's a bit of where you and and Captain
Speaker 1: Kirk just go like just trading back and forth, and
Speaker 1: I've never seen anything like it. It's like chills.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's cool when there's musicians for
Speaker 2: me that can.
Speaker 3: Set up that environment where you feel like, wow, I
Speaker 3: can jump off this cliff and I'll be fine, yes, yeah.
Speaker 2: And then nobody's going no, don't jump.
Speaker 1: You find it hard to find musicians because I mean, like,
Speaker 1: you are a guy. You just strike me as a
Speaker 1: guy just from listening to you and seeing you, like
Speaker 1: it's like I feel like you'll go further off the
Speaker 1: cliff than anybody, you know what I mean. Like, it's
Speaker 1: hard for you to find people that like, I'm like
Speaker 1: the Lenny Bruce Yeah for the yeah, yeah, for the
Speaker 1: young hands. Yeah, they won't get that reference, but yes,
Speaker 1: you're the Lenny Bruce of RB. You're getting arrested on
Speaker 1: stage for taking it too far.
Speaker 2: Man, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean that's like I said, that's the jazz thing,
Speaker 3: and then it's also the punk rock thing.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Bad Brains is like my favorite, one of my favorite
Speaker 3: groups of all time. And I mentioned my boy Chuck
Speaker 3: Trees because he used to play drums and the Bad
Speaker 3: Brains and he's like my old g I met Chuck
Speaker 3: we uh at our mere's house, but then we got
Speaker 3: really close when we were roommates Uh in d'angelo's band
Speaker 3: Wow and.
Speaker 2: For a summer. Then I got fired.
Speaker 1: But what you get fired for?
Speaker 2: I couldn't. I was just a horrible background singer, man.
Speaker 1: I seen, but I was.
Speaker 2: I was like so into what everybody else was doing.
Speaker 2: I kept missing my parts.
Speaker 3: It wasn't that I couldn't sing the parts, but it's
Speaker 3: like our mirrors on drums. H roy Hard goes on
Speaker 3: in the trumpet section. D'angelo's playing keys, and this is
Speaker 3: like me right out of high school. I'm just looking.
Speaker 2: Around at everybody, like, oh my god, this is so bad.
Speaker 3: And then I look and d'angelo's giving me the deaths
Speaker 3: there like you missed your note again, and I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, oh yo. He was like, yeah, who fires you
Speaker 1: out of Dangelo's band? Like, how does that work?
Speaker 3: D'Angelo fired me, man, But it was very friendly. He said,
Speaker 3: you need to go get a record. You too much
Speaker 3: about the music, man, he was looking at everything.
Speaker 2: Not doing your job, brother.
Speaker 1: About the music. You fucking mind you that's crazy. Did
Speaker 1: did you process it as like a blow or you're
Speaker 1: just like, nah, you're probably right man, Like no, I was.
Speaker 2: I took it as wow, you think I could get
Speaker 2: a record? Hell? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Is that? Is that? How you knew Keytar Boston Bird?
Speaker 2: I met Keytar?
Speaker 3: Yeah, from that process because I started putting together a
Speaker 3: demo with.
Speaker 1: The guy from but the drummer from the Spin Doc
Speaker 1: which I never I gotta said, I never knew that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. We went to the same college.
Speaker 1: The drummer from the Spin Doctors, Aaron Comas two Princes
Speaker 1: Spin Doctors produced on your first record and everything.
Speaker 3: Ironically, we went to the same college and we were
Speaker 3: playing in the same.
Speaker 2: Dive bar jazz band.
Speaker 3: Uh like three in the morning at this place called
Speaker 3: Sidewalk Cafe, and me and Rob were having a hard
Speaker 3: time stay and walk to make the gig. So Aaron
Speaker 3: was like, YO, just come to my house, and you know,
Speaker 3: I got some instruments there. We could kind of like
Speaker 3: jam until the gig we go there. He lives in
Speaker 3: a man like straight up like I'm like, what do
Speaker 3: you do mean?
Speaker 1: You're so rich?
Speaker 3: Because I didn't know anything about the spin doctors and
Speaker 3: then he was like, dude, I'm about He didn't even
Speaker 3: tell us until like, I don't think he ever told me.
Speaker 3: I just kind of found out about that myself.
Speaker 1: He didn't have like records on the wall.
Speaker 3: No, it's just like a regular house. But he had
Speaker 3: an ill studio. Wow, just like wow, like how you
Speaker 3: got all this stuff?
Speaker 2: And that I wrote.
Speaker 3: A lot of h like my first uh songs on
Speaker 3: on on our air, on my first album at his crib,
Speaker 3: like when you call Queen in Sanity love poems, all
Speaker 3: of those.
Speaker 1: That's that's the sequence, right, that's in sequence on the
Speaker 1: album too. That's a those are great songs man, And
Speaker 1: he's playing drums on those, yep.
Speaker 3: Except he's playing drums on all of those except for
Speaker 3: Queen Insanity. Because I mirrored I marreor did a uh
Speaker 3: a mere move. I was just like, let me try something,
Speaker 3: and I think, uh, you know, I was just like wow,
Speaker 3: we kept. We kept a lot of it, the integrity
Speaker 3: of it, but that was the only one that we
Speaker 3: kind of re recorded. But everything else it was just
Speaker 3: like it was at this spot.
Speaker 2: I think it was another tune too. We had this so,
Speaker 2: like I said, I had did a whole.
Speaker 3: Record alone at Aaron's and then we just picked some
Speaker 3: of those and shopped it too for late You.
Speaker 1: Know, you got still cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're still cool. I just haven't spoken to him
Speaker 3: in a while, but yeah, Aaron, Aaron, we had a
Speaker 3: whole album. I thought it was kind of like a
Speaker 3: rock album almost like not rock. It was like kind
Speaker 3: of rock, kind of Jameric.
Speaker 2: Why ish?
Speaker 1: But I was gonna ask, I mean, we sped past
Speaker 1: the Zeppelin, but like the way you, I mean, like
Speaker 1: the way you do a Zeppelin song, man, Like that's
Speaker 1: really it's it's really, first of all, a lot of
Speaker 1: the any cover I've really heard of yours, whether we
Speaker 1: just Sarrotares and Blood or Can't High Love or Hide
Speaker 1: and Dry or since I've been loving you, it's like
Speaker 1: you definitely bring something to I want to ask you
Speaker 1: more about just what you the way you might interpret
Speaker 1: the song, But have you ever thought about like it's
Speaker 1: it's I can't think of anyone who can do a
Speaker 1: Zeppelin song justice the way that you did on that. Like,
Speaker 1: have you thought about just forming a rock band, like
Speaker 1: putting a band like I mean, and I guess your
Speaker 1: second album is a little.
Speaker 2: Were very hard hard rock. I think the band everybody
Speaker 2: in my band thinks there rock musician anyway.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I was sort of making My kids asked
Speaker 3: me that too, you know. My son asked me, why
Speaker 3: don't you make another type of band when y'all doing
Speaker 3: But I'm just like we what I do is I
Speaker 3: try to shove everything in the world into one burrito.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but it's just so fun to hear you
Speaker 1: do that genre because it's.
Speaker 3: Like, yeah, there's a I would love to go full
Speaker 3: on into that genre, into the jazz world too.
Speaker 2: You know, like a lot of people don't even know
Speaker 2: that I sing jazz.
Speaker 1: We would like to do like a straight up like
Speaker 1: a like a I.
Speaker 2: Used to, But then I'm like, what the hell is
Speaker 2: jazz now?
Speaker 1: It's a lot of things.
Speaker 2: It's what I'm doing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's kind of what you're doing now.
Speaker 2: So I don't know rock would be cool though.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is there a party that wants to the amount
Speaker 1: of the amount of time between this record and your
Speaker 1: last records, almost the amount of time between yeah, the
Speaker 1: first and second album. Do you is there a party
Speaker 1: that is happy to just put stuff out when every
Speaker 1: so often? Do you? Is there a party that wants
Speaker 1: to it? Sounds like you have a lot of stuff too,
Speaker 1: like something you can be releasing regularly, not to I
Speaker 1: could put it.
Speaker 3: I could put out an album every two years. I could.
Speaker 3: I got so much music.
Speaker 1: Why are you depriving us?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I just wanted to be done right. You
Speaker 3: know I've been doing putting music out. You're not satisfied
Speaker 3: with the way I put it out that. I'm just like, man,
Speaker 3: I wanted.
Speaker 2: To be done the right way. You know.
Speaker 3: With this album, I put my own money into it
Speaker 3: to make sure I kind of like did it how
Speaker 3: I was envisioning it and make it kind of work.
Speaker 2: But I don't want to go bro, you know what
Speaker 2: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Definitely not. But it's a good album though.
Speaker 2: That's sure. I insisted on it.
Speaker 1: It almost feels like the most even including the one
Speaker 1: that I guess like at leads. But that's not fair
Speaker 1: because that wasn't really what it was intended to be.
Speaker 1: But it does feel like the most cohesive project in
Speaker 1: a sense, you know, where it's like it just feel
Speaker 1: like there's a through line and you could just start
Speaker 1: right back at one like like you could just loop
Speaker 1: it and it's like it feels like it's like a circle.
Speaker 1: It just doesn't stop. You know. It has that real
Speaker 1: complete feel to it, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean this record was definitely a labor of love.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: A lot of it was done in my own like
Speaker 3: personal studio, and just it wasn't a label for I'm
Speaker 3: doing this, so I can kind of because the label
Speaker 3: like signed me to do it. It was just something
Speaker 3: I was doing. And then I was like, I want
Speaker 3: this to come home. Let me go fish for somebody
Speaker 3: to help me.
Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. But I don't want to
Speaker 2: do that no more. Man. I feel like.
Speaker 3: I put together good projects and I just have to
Speaker 3: find a good home for it, you know, to so
Speaker 3: that I can just put it out. But like I said,
Speaker 3: I got mad ship, dude, mad shit.
Speaker 1: Man, we got I want out there. I mean, I
Speaker 1: hope you put it out.
Speaker 2: It just has to be it has to be right.
Speaker 2: And that's the way I feel like because I put
Speaker 2: a lot into stuff.
Speaker 1: You know, can I I won't keep you here forever?
Speaker 1: But can I ask you about Morocco? Oh yeah, I
Speaker 1: would love ask one. What's some of my number one
Speaker 1: destinations to go to? Man?
Speaker 3: I love Morocco. The people are very It's almost like
Speaker 3: a competition. Like I'll go to a woman my wife's
Speaker 3: aunt's house, and then she'll find out her sister I went,
Speaker 3: you know, her the other I know find out that
Speaker 3: I went there, and then it's like oh yeah, And
Speaker 3: then I'm in my mind. I'm like, we going there,
Speaker 3: We're going to her house, and she goes, really, so
Speaker 3: what'd you eat over there?
Speaker 2: Well, now you're gonna have this.
Speaker 3: It's like everything is great if you're a visitor, because
Speaker 3: everybody's like you, you have never had hospitality like this.
Speaker 2: He come to my house and give you the best.
Speaker 3: So I'm like raiding. Everybody's green, everybody's a mentee.
Speaker 1: It's one of those doesn't sound too different from like
Speaker 1: just like a black family that Auntie's house, Like.
Speaker 2: Okay, come and visit me.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, Like oh man, you know, like
Speaker 1: I can't visit no one you know, and.
Speaker 3: Then they feed you and feed you and feed you,
Speaker 3: and you're like, I'm none. And if you don't know
Speaker 3: how to say this one word, you have to learn
Speaker 3: this word or else you will you your stomach will
Speaker 3: bust open and you'll just die in somebody's dinner table.
Speaker 3: You have to learn this word called safi, saffi safi
Speaker 3: that means enough, okay.
Speaker 2: Enough, because they will just keep feeding you and feeding
Speaker 2: you like no, no, no.
Speaker 3: No, because I mean they don't make us spread like
Speaker 3: you've never seen.
Speaker 2: Wow and yeah, so wow.
Speaker 3: And the awesome thing about it, I didn't gain no weight,
Speaker 3: and I ate so much food. I felt like I
Speaker 3: was getting stronger. That's when I knew like there was
Speaker 3: some something, something's up with.
Speaker 2: The food here. Yeah, because.
Speaker 3: I was eating late at night. Oh man, just some
Speaker 3: of these leftovers, that's.
Speaker 1: My I might move there. I was eating later night
Speaker 1: last night. I feeling guilty, like a month, I gotta move.
Speaker 3: And the scenery, you know, I got into painting out there,
Speaker 3: like really into painting because of so much scenery.
Speaker 1: And you had never done that really before.
Speaker 3: I always kept like a sketch book, but I never
Speaker 3: like set up an easel and it was just like
Speaker 3: I'm gonna paint like I'm gonna make a painting. I
Speaker 3: always had like painter friends, so I watched them and
Speaker 3: how they put and it was always similar to me
Speaker 3: the way I put my songs together, just like a
Speaker 3: bunch of collages. And so that was like my approach
Speaker 3: to my paintings. And now I think that's kind of
Speaker 3: what changed on this last album, because I approached it
Speaker 3: just like I was doing those paintings, like just throwing
Speaker 3: shit against the wall and see what sticks, you know,
Speaker 3: or waiting around for something random that happened that we
Speaker 3: didn't know how we did it. And then now I
Speaker 3: was like, that's thetart, you know. Now let's see what
Speaker 3: we can do around that. And I think I learned
Speaker 3: that from from the painting.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Yeah, And are you living in Morocco? Morocco
Speaker 1: or like kind of.
Speaker 2: Like off and on?
Speaker 3: I still my family still has a property out there
Speaker 3: and I'm playing on. I'm actually on my way back
Speaker 3: out there in July. So the plan is to live
Speaker 3: here and and Morocco.
Speaker 1: It's really cool, man. I heard Hendricks back in the
Speaker 1: day used to go through Morocco.
Speaker 2: I swear, I swear.
Speaker 3: There's so many mountains and waterfalls. Morocco is I think
Speaker 3: the only place in Africa where they have all of
Speaker 3: the seasons.
Speaker 1: Really there's snow. There's that wind like a winter with
Speaker 1: snow out there.
Speaker 3: Well, you go up these mountains and there's snow up there.
Speaker 1: Wow, and what's the music? I out there?
Speaker 3: Incredible? I got into this. It's this transient music that
Speaker 3: they play called Ganawa.
Speaker 1: I heard of it.
Speaker 3: Ganawa music is music based off of this instrument called
Speaker 3: the gimbrii, which is they make it out.
Speaker 2: Of the actual throat of.
Speaker 3: The of a goat, like and it's a base and
Speaker 3: they make it from the the skin of the throat
Speaker 3: and they use the strings the intestines because they have
Speaker 3: this thing where if they slaughter animal, they have to
Speaker 3: you have to use the of the entirety of the animals.
Speaker 3: So they do other things with like they'll make if
Speaker 3: after they eat all of the meat, they'll use the skin,
Speaker 3: they'll use the bones. They you know, nothing goes away.
Speaker 3: So they've made this instrument in Ghanawa was basically kind
Speaker 3: of birthed out of the slave tree, the Islamic slave tree,
Speaker 3: the sub Saharan slave trade.
Speaker 2: A lot of.
Speaker 3: The slaves came together, and the way they would remember
Speaker 3: their heritage or where they came from, they would make
Speaker 3: they through these songs they would create from this gimbi.
Speaker 3: But when I tell you, it was like I was
Speaker 3: at a Pentecostal church. Dude, it was I didn't know
Speaker 3: what nobody was saying, but cats up. They're singing songs
Speaker 3: about Allah.
Speaker 2: But it's like we're at a Pentecostal church.
Speaker 3: Cats is passing out, their little cat's getting laid hands
Speaker 3: on and they sacrificed the chickens. Wow, it's like a
Speaker 3: full on Southern Baptist. And I was just in there
Speaker 3: like wow, Like I feel like a little boy again.
Speaker 3: And they start these they start these seances. I call
Speaker 3: them at like five in the afternoon and then it's
Speaker 3: over at five in the morning. And I mean, just this,
Speaker 3: it's like a trance. Like you go into this music
Speaker 3: and it's like you leave this planet. And I'm actually
Speaker 3: going out there in July to play with.
Speaker 2: A Ganawa band.
Speaker 1: That's amazing, like a band from out there, and you're
Speaker 1: gonna sing.
Speaker 3: I don't know what I'm gonna saying, but it's gonna
Speaker 3: be awesome. You know it's a live thing. Are you're
Speaker 3: gonna of course live? Yeah, at the festival. They have
Speaker 3: a Ganala Festival. They have lots of festivals, music festivals,
Speaker 3: Man and Hendricks. That's what Hendricks will be. He would
Speaker 3: go to those festivals. But it's this I really can't
Speaker 3: describe it other than it's like it feels like Delta
Speaker 3: blues Wow mixed with riggy Wow.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to check that out that part of Africa.
Speaker 1: It just seems like incredible.
Speaker 2: Like I would.
Speaker 3: I would try to record them, but they don't let you,
Speaker 3: Like if they see your phone, they'll be like, oh.
Speaker 2: Like I pulled it out at one of the everything stopped.
Speaker 3: I felt like. I was like, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Speaker 3: I just had to get some of this groove. I
Speaker 3: had to get some of this groove down the chickens.
Speaker 2: But we had them come.
Speaker 3: We had them come to my house and they I
Speaker 3: have a rooftop, built a tent on the roof and.
Speaker 2: They played the whole thing on the roof.
Speaker 1: Did you record that?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They couldn't tell me no that. I was like, y'all, no,
Speaker 2: I can record. Now you're out there.
Speaker 1: You're like like Alan Low Max and Morocco or some
Speaker 1: ship man.
Speaker 2: Oh man, they they called me the America honey black man.
Speaker 1: They're going another country. I guess I am. Goddamn yeah.
Speaker 1: But the.
Speaker 2: Really really good people, beautiful people.
Speaker 1: That's great man. Well, ship man, I'll come check you
Speaker 1: out there with these groups.
Speaker 2: That's how yeah. Man.
Speaker 1: Fortunately have to miss you in l A bock at
Speaker 1: you hey, thank you for thanks for taking all the time.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: I really appreciate having its cool conversation.
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Speaker 1: Our theme music's by Kenny Beats. I'm justin Richmond.