WEBVTT - How Sam Bankman-Fried Conned the Crypto World 0:00:02.960 --> 0:00:07.080 On February nineteen two, there was a mass shooting in Portland, Oregon. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.520 Right wing extremist opened fire at people doing traffic support 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:14.319 for a weekly racial justice march. He killed one person, 0:00:14.400 --> 0:00:16.880 he injured several others. One of the people who was injured, 0:00:17.440 --> 0:00:20.239 a young woman, is currently paralyzed from the neck down. 0:00:20.800 --> 0:00:23.760 Her friends and family are raising money, um, not for 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.599 immediate survival, stuff for for quality of life things, for 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.560 things to you know, allow her to enjoy herself out 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.160 in the world with people, given the fact that she's 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:36.880 dealt with something and is dealing with something, uh, permanently 0:00:36.920 --> 0:00:40.040 life changing. So I wanted to highlight that they're already 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.440 above their initial goal. But obviously, you know, any anything 0:00:43.440 --> 0:00:45.239 we can give will help her and her family have 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:47.479 a higher quality of life, and I think they deserve it. 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:51.160 So go to go fund me Portland mass shooting Paralyzed 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:55.480 Survivor Fund. That's go fund me Portland mass shooting Paralyzed 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:58.560 Survivor fund. If you've got some extra cash, you know, 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.200 the season being what it is, I get that everybody's 0:01:01.200 --> 0:01:03.680 got a lot of expenses coming up. But if a 0:01:03.720 --> 0:01:06.559 few folks have some extra bucks, I know it'll be appreciated. 0:01:06.680 --> 0:01:09.800 It will help her have a warmer season this year, 0:01:09.800 --> 0:01:13.160 and she certainly deserves it. So again, go fund me 0:01:13.200 --> 0:01:19.479 Portland mass shooting paralyzed survivor fund Thank you. Oh God 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.480 is dead and you, Jamie Loftus, have killed him. I 0:01:23.520 --> 0:01:26.080 did it, I did it, you did it. You did it. 0:01:26.200 --> 0:01:29.280 No God was a hymn and Jamie killed him, hammered 0:01:29.280 --> 0:01:31.760 at the back of the head. And and people are 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:33.920 going to be critical of that, but you know, you 0:01:33.959 --> 0:01:37.199 don't know my story. And in my six part mini 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:40.480 series in which I'm played by Amanda Sea Freed, You're 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:42.440 going to start to see my side of the story. 0:01:42.640 --> 0:01:45.200 And she is definitely not going to jail for what 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:50.880 I did. That's good. Unlike Founder of Their Enough Elizabeth Holmes, 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.480 who we just found out has been sentenced to eleven 0:01:53.480 --> 0:01:58.920 point to five years in in prison. I'm kind of like, yeah, 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:01.800 I have mixed I have mixed feelings because it's like 0:02:02.200 --> 0:02:06.880 people don't go First of all, the prison industrial complex 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.600 in general, it doesn't make anyone better to the extent 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.280 that there's value in the present day, and putting people 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:17.320 in prison, it's people who are like a severe ongoing danger. 0:02:17.840 --> 0:02:20.880 And I don't see this making anything better. Like at 0:02:20.919 --> 0:02:23.600 the same time, I hate her, so I don't. I'm 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:26.400 not gonna it's not it's not going to be the 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:31.640 top injustice I write route today. I do kind of 0:02:31.720 --> 0:02:38.120 like that HERU after being exposed as an unrepentant criminal, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:39.480 She's like, Oh, I think I'm just going to kind 0:02:39.480 --> 0:02:41.519 of be like a norm e girl for a while 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.480 and I'm gonna gon gomal kid. And You're like, Liz, 0:02:45.520 --> 0:02:48.520 it's too late. It's too late for that. Liz. You 0:02:48.639 --> 0:02:52.440 defrauded people with a fake medical device that led folks 0:02:52.480 --> 0:02:55.720 to to get treatment for things they didn't have and 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.560 ignore all this as they did, which is bad. That 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.639 before too many bodies at the floor, but that would 0:03:01.680 --> 0:03:05.040 have stopped you, but you didn't really care. You applied 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.360 Steve Jobs logic to something that was not just a 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:15.880 silly box to keep in your pocket. Lizzie, you know, Lizzie, uh, 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:21.000 Lizzie again. Also putting her in prison for you know, 0:03:21.080 --> 0:03:23.640 probably nine years, when you consider all the other things, 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.480 is like not gonna help anything. It'll just mean that 0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:30.640 that kid she has grows up without a mom for 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.760 nine years, and that's not going to make that It's 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.720 like it's a huge moment for many things can be 0:03:36.760 --> 0:03:39.440 true at once and having to hold all of those 0:03:39.480 --> 0:03:43.560 truths and um, still recording episode of Behind the Bastards, 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:47.240 I can tell you about this. Actually, this actually will 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.440 be relevant to the episode. But yes, please please really yes, Okay, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:53.040 this is definitely not going to be relevant. So let's 0:03:53.120 --> 0:03:56.280 let's okay. I was a legal case I was thinking 0:03:56.320 --> 0:04:01.840 about today. Um was the beanie baby is billionaire. Um. 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:04.960 When he went was taken the court in for holding 0:04:05.000 --> 0:04:08.240 money in a Swiss bank account. Um. He it was 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:12.680 like a tax a tasion, tax evasion charge. Um. So 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:17.000 he was up for as many as five years in 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:21.599 prison for tax evasion, and he got off with I mean, 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.160 he's a billionaire, he's never going to suffer a consequence, right, 0:04:24.200 --> 0:04:27.640 But like, he ended up getting a two years of 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:30.720 probation on the ground that it had been too publicly 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.880 humiliating so he didn't have to get to go to 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:36.000 jail because he was too and so farnest. It was 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.800 so embarrassing that he didn't have to go to jail. 0:04:39.360 --> 0:04:44.760 What that's absolutely fucking weird. Anyways, I'm gonna I'm gonna 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:47.520 see how far this goes by committing murder and then 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:51.119 having my pants fall down and like, well, Judge, look, 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:57.800 yes I did stab that man seven times underpants. Yeah 0:04:58.400 --> 0:05:03.279 pp myself so feel like that. Yeah we can we 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:08.359 just zero this one out. Man. I love the Beanie 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:12.680 Baby's story so much. I'm surrounded by my beans feeling safe. Wow, 0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:15.640 that's good. You do literally have one on your shoulder 0:05:15.760 --> 0:05:19.760 right now. Yeah, just just like I have this rifle 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.120 next to me. I think that we both have our 0:05:22.120 --> 0:05:28.000 comfort objects at the ready. Um so, Jamie, speaking of 0:05:28.600 --> 0:05:32.000 Elizabeth Holmes, because the person we're talking about today is 0:05:32.000 --> 0:05:34.920 going to be the next story like that. By this 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:36.880 time next year, they're probably is going to be an 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:42.039 HBO documentary about this guy. God, maybe Taylor Taylor Kitch 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.360 could probably play him. Um, actually, if he wanted to. Really, 0:05:46.680 --> 0:05:50.080 Taylor Kitch played hot David Koresh in The Waco Show, 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:54.080 walked into that. Yeah, they'd have to give him like 0:05:54.120 --> 0:05:56.599 a belly suit or something. That's not anti fantom, just 0:05:56.640 --> 0:05:59.960 being accurate, but he could do it. Maybe that is 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:02.320 I don't want to see this man ever again. No, 0:06:02.600 --> 0:06:05.600 I'm mad. You don't want to see Taylor kitchigain you 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:08.880 don't want to see those cum gutters again. Unbelievable, goddamnit. 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.760 Plenty in this town, Robert, there's a million cum gutters. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:19.240 I don't need those. Oh that that is true. But anyway, 0:06:19.360 --> 0:06:22.840 so through the street that that that is that is 0:06:22.880 --> 0:06:25.800 true of Los Angeles and no other city. Today we 0:06:25.880 --> 0:06:29.640 are talking about a guy who absolutely never comes Sam 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.120 Bankman Freed. Why do you know this guy? Do you 0:06:33.160 --> 0:06:35.440 know this guy? I don't know this guy. You don't 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.880 know this guy. You don't know this guy? Have you? 0:06:38.000 --> 0:06:41.119 Have you caught any news in the last week about 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:46.440 how like a massive cryptocurrency exchange has collapsed Plummett? This 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.680 is that guy. Oh, this is the guy with his 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:52.560 like polyamorous sex ring that was running a big crypto 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.600 bank in the Bahamas and it all fell apart. Now 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:59.200 billions of dollars are gone. You've lost me again. Oh great, Okay, well, 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.800 well I'll right. This is still breaking. Um we are 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:06.360 because this is a Thanksgiving week episode. We only do 0:07:06.440 --> 0:07:08.960 one episode on Thanksgivings. I needed a single one, so 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:10.840 I just want to give everyone background on this guy. 0:07:11.240 --> 0:07:13.360 We will we may come back to this story because 0:07:13.400 --> 0:07:16.240 there's a lot we don't fully understand about how he 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:18.120 did what he did and the degree to which. But 0:07:19.880 --> 0:07:24.120 is that this guy, this guy ran a trading service 0:07:24.200 --> 0:07:28.520 called Alameda Research and a crypto exchange, and exchange is 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:31.800 basically like a bank, right, It's a cross between a 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:35.000 bank and like a trading platform called f t X, 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:38.960 which was one of the largest cryptocurrency exchanges in the world, 0:07:39.000 --> 0:07:41.320 and was also considered by most people to be the 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.800 most stable and like ethical and legitimate, right, people who 0:07:44.840 --> 0:07:46.440 are just kind of on the outside looking at when 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:49.560 everything collapsed earlier this year, Right, you remember that we 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.760 have that I was engaged in that. It's just that 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.560 I get a lot of my news journalists on Twitter 0:07:55.600 --> 0:07:59.840 and they've been busy this week. Yes, So when when 0:07:59.840 --> 0:08:02.040 the when the when crypto like fell apart? When a 0:08:02.040 --> 0:08:04.280 lot of crypto fell apart earlier this year, and like 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.960 a bunch of places went under. F t X was 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.160 one of the ones that stayed stable. And actually we're 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.160 buying up a bunch of like failing crypto companies to 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:15.720 try to like prop up the industry. They just collapsed 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.720 and like the value of all everything has been plummeting 0:08:18.800 --> 0:08:21.760 for for the last several days. It's a big disaster. 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:27.480 It is very like yeah, in in and as in 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.080 words that will annoy me as little as possible. Can 0:08:30.120 --> 0:08:34.360 you explain why fts remained solvent and others? It is 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:39.760 not so why did it outlast? Because they lied? Um, 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:42.880 so they were they were operating the short end of 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:45.320 how to describe it, And we may there will be 0:08:45.360 --> 0:08:48.560 more details to come, but at present it seems fair 0:08:48.600 --> 0:08:51.120 to say that it was a giant Ponzi scheme where 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.120 they were they were they were taking in money, promising 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:58.400 unreasonable returns, using other investor money to gamble on stuff 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.079 to try to provide anyway. And it was like all 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:05.320 the other guys they were, they were dishonest. Yeah, it is. 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:08.079 It is very likely. What what what differentiates this is 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:11.240 the scale because this is very likely a financial crime 0:09:11.240 --> 0:09:13.200 on the level of what Bernie made off did. We 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:16.000 are talking in the ten to twenty billion dollars stolen 0:09:18.000 --> 0:09:22.480 a lot of money. This is a serious financial crime. 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.960 I'm in on this pretty cold. And so for the 0:09:27.000 --> 0:09:32.119 other the other kind of mass of um like touchstone 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:33.880 of this is that it has led to a class 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.400 action lawsuit against Larry David, Shaquille O'Neal, Tom Brady and 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.440 a number of celebrities who were all in a Super 0:09:40.480 --> 0:09:44.679 Bowl ad for f t X. I remember that ad 0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:50.920 that was so embarrassing for my man Larry. The lawsuit 0:09:51.000 --> 0:09:54.840 is basically advertise. Basic was the high dollar Ponzi scheme, 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:57.360 and you guys were using your name recognition to sell 0:09:57.440 --> 0:10:02.160 unregistered securities, which they were, which they were, which they 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:05.880 definitely were. Sorry, I just want to circle back to Shaquille. 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.640 Shaquille O'Neil will put his name on anything, to the 0:10:08.720 --> 0:10:13.560 point where to the point where I worked at a 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.680 Haunted hay Ride this year, which we don't talk about 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:24.079 because it was a bad idea, but the rival what idea? 0:10:24.440 --> 0:10:28.760 I guess what. I'm alive, bitch, bitch, I lived, I 0:10:28.800 --> 0:10:31.440 lived to tell the tale. It's very unclear who is 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:33.200 right in the side of should I work at a 0:10:33.200 --> 0:10:35.760 Haunted hay Ride or not? I still haven't really landed 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:40.160 on a name answer point being. Our closest rival Haunted 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:47.640 Hayride wise was sh Octoberfest. It was Shack themed haunted 0:10:47.679 --> 0:10:51.600 attraction in which the only Shack related thing was a 0:10:51.600 --> 0:10:55.600 gigantic inflatable Frankenstein that looked like Shack, which did sound awesome. 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.520 That sounds actually like the best time anyone's ever had 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.080 Shack put his name on an anything, including crypto and Halloween. 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:07.120 What a what a King? Um? Probably not. I'm sure 0:11:07.120 --> 0:11:09.200 there's horrible things about Shack that have come out that 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:13.560 seems almost unavoidable. Anyway, Sam Bankman Freed is the guy 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.000 behind this gigantic financial crime that is still unraveling as 0:11:17.000 --> 0:11:19.200 we do this episode. And I want to talk about 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.400 less about what happened on the exchange, because none of 0:11:22.440 --> 0:11:25.160 us want to talk about how somebody carries out the 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:27.959 nuts and bolts of a cryptocurrency scam. But I want 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.600 to talk about I want to talk about the social 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:32.600 elements of the scam. I want to talk about how 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:35.160 he conned the media, how he conned celebrities, and how 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.079 he conned regulators UM. And I just want to talk 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:41.400 about also the way some of these people talked and 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:45.280 wrote about him, because there's a lot about I don't know. 0:11:45.320 --> 0:11:47.080 A week or so ago, we did an episode on 0:11:47.080 --> 0:11:49.080 The Daily Show we do what could happen here about 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:53.920 ethical altruism, which is in brief theory that like the 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.520 instead of trying to help people just because they need help, 0:11:57.880 --> 0:12:01.280 you should only help people after you consider the way 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.080 to help people that is like the absolute most beneficial 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:07.360 way for like the least amount of you know, effort. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:09.600 The it's utilitarianism, right, what can I How can I 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:13.600 do the greatest good with the least resources? And yeah, 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:15.560 and it's it's the way a lot of these like 0:12:15.960 --> 0:12:18.000 and it's merged with this kind of thinking towards what 0:12:18.559 --> 0:12:21.200 billionaire types called long termism. And the gist of this 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.920 is like, it's not worthwhile for me to do stuff 0:12:24.960 --> 0:12:27.600 like pay taxes to have a society or guarantee like 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:31.920 universal health care. Instead, I should make Instead, the most 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:33.760 ethical thing that I should do is make as much 0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:36.040 money as I personally can and then put that money 0:12:36.120 --> 0:12:38.320 into things that I believe will save the world, like 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.199 research to stop aies from killing everyone and getting to 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:45.959 Mars and ship It's a way for billionaires, trains, It's 0:12:45.960 --> 0:12:48.960 a way for billionaires and the other mega rich to 0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:52.080 justify like continuing to do exactly what they want and 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.040 feel like they're saving in the world anyway, Sam, you 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.640 guy from Beanie you know the beanie babies billionaire did 0:12:57.640 --> 0:13:01.000 to improve the world may a lot of beanie babies, 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:03.760 and then he bought the four seasons hotel and kept 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.760 making beanie babies. He didn't do ship. That's well, you know, 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:09.960 that's I'm fine with that compared to these guys because 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:14.880 they're where they're pretending anyway. Bank Sam Bankman Freed is 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:16.520 one of these guys. We're gonna get into that. But 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.920 we did this episode on It could Happen Here where 0:13:18.960 --> 0:13:21.840 he was kind of a tangentle character in this very 0:13:21.920 --> 0:13:26.120 unsettling and insidious movement that is behind guys like Elon 0:13:26.200 --> 0:13:28.040 Musk who are claiming to be saving the world will 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.080 just sucking over people. And then like four days after 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:33.600 it came out, his entire life unraveled and his fortune 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.440 disappeared overnight because he was a giant con artist. What 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.640 a treat. It's very funny. So that's why we're talking 0:13:39.640 --> 0:13:42.960 about him right now. He's like thirty years old and 0:13:43.000 --> 0:13:46.640 looks like Mark Zuckerberg and David Dobrick's love child. He's 0:13:46.720 --> 0:13:51.280 thirty years old, was a Mark Zuckerberg and David dobricks 0:13:51.320 --> 0:13:54.480 love child. Look. I shouldn't call anyone a schlub, but 0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:57.760 he looks like a schlub. I forget what David Dobrick 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:03.840 looked like because my brain protects myself respectfully. Two villains, 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:09.520 two villains, love child. Yeah. Um anyway, so I uh yeah. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:13.120 Sam Bankmnfried was born in nineteen ninety two on the 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:16.800 campus of Stanford University, uh, continuing a long and proud 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:19.840 tradition of absolutely nothing good ever coming from that hellhole. 0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:24.760 His parents are both extremely prominent Stanford professors. His mother, Barbara, 0:14:24.880 --> 0:14:27.240 is a lawyer her clothes who clerked for the Second 0:14:27.240 --> 0:14:31.080 Circuit Court and graduated from Harvard. She founded Mind the Gap, 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.720 a somewhat shady and mysterious democratic fundraising group. I think 0:14:34.720 --> 0:14:36.960 it's shady and that people don't exactly know where all 0:14:36.960 --> 0:14:39.320 the money comes from or like what their goals are. 0:14:39.560 --> 0:14:44.160 She also yeah yeah. She also pinned an essay in 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.520 two thousand thirteen that the right wing is going nuts 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:51.560 about because she was basically arguing that like it's good 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:54.280 and evil are less a factor in in what people 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:57.440 do than environmental factors and and and all that stuff, 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:00.000 Like when people do things that are bad, it's more 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:02.200 and a product of their And it was kind of 0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.920 am oh god, what's that fucking psychologist. It was like 0:15:06.960 --> 0:15:09.240 a Skinner type argument where it's like, well, if people 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:11.400 have bad inputs in their youth and that's going to 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.720 determine anyway. Um, I think that's funny given what happens. Um, 0:15:16.000 --> 0:15:20.120 I'm gonna guess she sucks at what she's she's she sucks. Uh, 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:23.600 And so does his dad, Joseph Bankman. Joseph is also 0:15:23.640 --> 0:15:26.640 a lawyer. He is a graduate from Yale. His big 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:29.280 claim to fame was developing a proposal for an overhaul 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.760 of the California tax return system that would have filled 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:33.960 out citizens tax returns in advance. And I don't know, 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.160 I just said he sucked, But actually that sounds like 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.960 a good thing. Um, I think that that's actually a 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.400 cool thing to advocate for. The measure failed by one 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.160 vote after heavy lobbying from into It, a tax prep 0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:49.120 prep software company. Um yeah, it kind of is. It's 0:15:49.160 --> 0:15:52.760 it's total bullshit because stuff, it's the thing everybody agrees 0:15:52.840 --> 0:15:55.120 with on paper, but nobody will actually fight the tax 0:15:55.120 --> 0:15:57.440 prep companies, which is like, Hey, the I r S 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:00.680 like knows more or less what I'm ache and like 0:16:01.160 --> 0:16:03.440 knows more or less what I owe. Why don't I 0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:05.240 just get a thing from them? Why do I have 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:07.960 to go through this? Like anyway, there's no need but 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.400 it's like that's the other countries do it that way. 0:16:10.440 --> 0:16:13.680 We don't, though, because there has to be a convoluted 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.200 system that's expensive and where they can charge you if 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:18.880 you make the tiniest mistake because you can't read size 0:16:18.880 --> 0:16:21.160 one font well. And more to the point, because I 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.960 don't actually think the I R. S. Is advocating to 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:25.440 keep it a pain in the ass. I think it's 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:29.200 these tax prep companies because they have an entire industry 0:16:29.240 --> 0:16:32.560 based on charging people to do the thing that they 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:35.920 have to do to avoid going to fucking prison. Um. Anyway, 0:16:36.200 --> 0:16:38.480 I said he's an asshole, and I'm sure he is, 0:16:38.520 --> 0:16:41.400 but he was right about this, and I don't know 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:44.040 what to say about that. Like all of us. Joseph 0:16:44.080 --> 0:16:46.400 is also a podcaster. He is the host of the 0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:52.040 co host of the Stanford Legal podcast too, and he's 0:16:52.080 --> 0:16:55.600 a nerd. If it wasn't the holiday season and I 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:58.320 wasn't like getting ready for friends and family and all 0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:00.280 that that good stuff, I would have listened to his 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.360 podcast and we would probably be making fun of him. 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:06.600 But you can do that on your own goodness, I believe, 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:09.840 isn't it doesn't it feel so horrible when you think 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:13.840 of how many people do what we do, but they're 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.960 the worst person you've ever heard of. It's so sad, 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:22.320 it's embarrassing. Yeah, it's it's like, I don't know, I 0:17:22.359 --> 0:17:26.240 avoid self identifying as a podcaster as it is, it's 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:28.560 still not a stem. But then on top of that, 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.560 they're like, oh, like what, like I mean, you know, 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:32.440 you know, the only you know, the only thing that 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:35.440 I can compare it to is like when I started 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.080 making a living as a writer fifteen years ago, and 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.800 I would say that at like a at like a 0:17:41.720 --> 0:17:43.600 party or something, someone asked like, well, what do you 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.520 do And I'm like, well, I'm a writer, and like 0:17:45.560 --> 0:17:48.760 four other people would say yeah, me too. Uh and 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:51.880 then you wind up listening to everybody's pitches for their 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.600 novels that they're never going to finish. Um. So eventually 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:58.119 I just started lying and saying that I still worked 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:01.199 a special at well. I like, I mean, it's the 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.520 same thing with like if you say you're a comedian 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:07.760 in a party, you're god no, never never identify as 0:18:07.760 --> 0:18:10.040 a comedian And oh me too, do you? And I've 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:14.800 done one whole open mic and Mike was very offensive 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:18.919 and he's had a comedian's job to push boundaries and oh, 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.280 tell me your job, you know how Lenny Bruce, Let 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:23.720 read that. Let read that list of curse words. Will 0:18:23.760 --> 0:18:26.880 I just do that with slurs here? Let me show you. Yeah, 0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.720 you're like yeah, like slame. Bruce was not funny in 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:35.160 that period of his career, even a little. Anyways, Anyways, 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.880 our job, I mean, are embarrassing what I'm saying. Anyway, 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.639 our jobs are indeed embarrassing. So, as you might guess 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:45.400 from all of that, Sam was born into what amounts 0:18:45.440 --> 0:18:50.159 to America's like liberal aristocracy. He is a fucking coastal elite, right. 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:54.080 This kid grows up on the Stanford campus to Stanford professors. 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:57.480 One of his aunt's teaches at Columbia University is like 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.320 a professor there. So seems like he has close family 0:19:01.320 --> 0:19:04.840 connections to employees at Yale and at Harvard UH as 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.439 well as Stanford, like his parents both go to Harvard. 0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:10.600 I think it is Kennedy. He is a Yeah, he's 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:13.560 he's that. He is as you do not get much 0:19:13.600 --> 0:19:18.640 more of a rarefied like intellectual air. He's wearing Linen's around. 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.119 This is how I think about this. This is a 0:19:21.240 --> 0:19:23.800 child who at age eight, has strong opinions on a 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:29.280 manual kant Um, which will cheer for him at the table. No, No, 0:19:29.680 --> 0:19:32.119 we're about to get into that, Jamie loves. I just 0:19:32.160 --> 0:19:35.040 had I just had a vision of a child sitting 0:19:35.160 --> 0:19:41.160 at like a holiday dinner and saying derivative and then amazing, Wow, 0:19:41.359 --> 0:19:44.040 he is really coming along, isn't he. Yeah, this is 0:19:44.080 --> 0:19:46.159 a little kid that, when he likes sits down at 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.600 the doctor's office, pulls out a fucking I don't know, 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.800 doritta or something book just just just so you know, 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:55.359 just so you know, he knows fancy philosophers. God damn 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:59.879 it board book. So his parents and his raised him 0:19:59.880 --> 0:20:03.040 in his brother to be utilitarians. Uh one of the 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.720 articles about them into SpongeBob. Okay, yeah, yeah, I was. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:13.399 I was raised to hassle cows in our back forty Um. 0:20:13.480 --> 0:20:16.720 His parents nights. So this article notes that nights around 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:20.280 the family dinner table often focused around debates about how 0:20:20.359 --> 0:20:23.480 to do the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Um. 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:25.840 In later interviews with I'm gonna get to this guy 0:20:25.880 --> 0:20:29.040 in a second, the absolute dick writing this journalist to 0:20:29.080 --> 0:20:32.639 ever write, Dick Sam would claim that his most formative 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.200 moment came at age twelve, when he was weighing arguments 0:20:36.240 --> 0:20:46.960 around the abortion debate. So, first off, because because not 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:51.920 only no, also like in the context of like where 0:20:51.920 --> 0:20:54.840 would he have been doing this? I'm guessing at like 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:57.160 around the family table or when they have the all. 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.480 You know, everybody's got their brandy and he's drinking in 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:02.960 some sort a fucking t that's insufferable, and they're all 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:06.760 talking about people's rights as if it's like a fun 0:21:06.840 --> 0:21:09.800 intellectual problem, like how to fix it for them? It 0:21:09.960 --> 0:21:12.280 is because whenever, wherever they land, the rules aren't going 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:15.040 to apply to them anyways. Yes, yes, where does he? 0:21:15.200 --> 0:21:18.240 Where does he fall? Where does That's a great question. 0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.639 So I'm going to quote now from an article previously 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:24.600 published by Sequoia Capital and written by Adam Fisher, who 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:27.119 should never be allowed to lift this article down. When 0:21:27.160 --> 0:21:31.000 I say the dick writing ist like fucking pr flak journal, 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:37.120 it's it's it's shameful quote right. A rights based theorist 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:40.280 might argue that there aren't really any discontinuous differences, as 0:21:40.280 --> 0:21:43.040 a fetus becomes a child, and thus fetus murder is 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.400 essentially child murder. The utilitarian argument compares the consequences of each. 0:21:47.560 --> 0:21:49.600 The loss of an actual child's life, a life in 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:51.960 which a great deal of parental and societal resources have 0:21:52.000 --> 0:21:54.639 been invested, is much more consequential than the loss of 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:57.760 a potential life in utero, and thus to a utilitarian 0:21:57.920 --> 0:22:01.600 abortion looks more like birth control than murder. SPF. That's 0:22:01.640 --> 0:22:05.240 what they always call him, the kid Sam spfs application 0:22:05.280 --> 0:22:08.359 of utilitarianism helped him resolve some nagging doubts he had 0:22:08.400 --> 0:22:11.240 about the ethics of abortion. It made him feel comfortable 0:22:11.280 --> 0:22:13.960 being pro choice, as his friends, family, and peers were. 0:22:14.119 --> 0:22:17.679 He saw the essential rightness of his philosophical faith. So 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:20.800 that's very fucked up. That is, that is so deep, 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.800 Like the term choice is used at the very ind there, 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:26.080 but it's clear that like he's not thinking about this 0:22:26.160 --> 0:22:29.480 in terms of like the actual value of human bodily autonomy. 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.800 That does not weigh in the utilitarian calculus for him whatsoever. No, 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:39.359 that is, to would argue my friend Robert, no, no, no, 0:22:40.680 --> 0:22:45.920