WEBVTT - Marlo Thomas - Summer Staff Picks 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:03.680 This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:07.920 the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer and that means 0:00:07.960 --> 0:00:10.760 it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing. Will 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:14.760 the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in 0:00:14.840 --> 0:00:19.040 our summer staff picks series? Next up? As executive producer 0:00:19.120 --> 0:00:20.120 Kathy Russo. 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:26.560 Thanks Alec White, go go boots, fishnet stockings, fake eyelashes, 0:00:26.800 --> 0:00:29.800 mini dresses, and that hair with the bangs and the 0:00:29.800 --> 0:00:33.640 flip at the end. That was That Girl, the series 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.120 I watched on my black and white TV in Upstate 0:00:36.159 --> 0:00:38.560 New York when I was six years old in nineteen 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:43.360 sixty six. That was Marlo Thomas playing an independent would 0:00:43.360 --> 0:00:46.360 be actress named Anne Marie. The show is about a 0:00:46.400 --> 0:00:49.040 woman from Bruster, New York that moves to the big 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:52.040 city to chase her dreams and I couldn't wait to 0:00:52.120 --> 0:00:55.640 watch every week. Marlo Thomas is my summer pick for 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:57.000 archive episode. 0:00:57.000 --> 0:00:57.480 This week. 0:00:58.080 --> 0:01:01.880 In the interview, Alec discusses Mallo's acting career from That 0:01:01.960 --> 0:01:05.759 Girl to Friends. They also talk about her political activism, 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:09.600 her children's books, and her longtime marriage to talk show 0:01:09.600 --> 0:01:14.319 host Phil Donahue. But most importantly, they discussed her work 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:17.960 with Saint Jude's Children's Hospital, started by her father, the 0:01:18.000 --> 0:01:22.360 actor Danny Thomas. At Saint Jude's, no parent pays for 0:01:22.440 --> 0:01:26.759 medical care for their child. I loved this interview because 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:30.120 with Marlowe, what you see is what you get, a 0:01:30.240 --> 0:01:34.160 warm and loving woman who cares deeply and takes action 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:38.319 to do good in the world, all while chasing her dreams. 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:45.319 Over the course of her illustrious career, Marlo Thomas has 0:01:45.400 --> 0:01:50.200 broken barriers for women as an award winning actress. Marlowe 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:54.280 became a household name from her portrayal of Anne Marie, 0:01:54.760 --> 0:01:58.040 the lead in the television show That Girl, a woman 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.880 who in the late sixties wanted a career more than 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:17.799 a family. An outspoken feminist, Marlowe then used her fame 0:02:18.240 --> 0:02:21.040 to launch Free to Be You and Me, which was 0:02:21.080 --> 0:02:24.720 first an album, then a book, and eventually an Emmy 0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.480 and Peabody Award winning TV show for children that challenged 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:32.680 gender norms and became a touchstone for a generation of 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:47.919 feminists and Her best selling books include a memoir about 0:02:48.000 --> 0:02:52.120 growing up the adored daughter of TV star Danny Thomas, 0:02:52.520 --> 0:02:56.520 and just last year, she and her husband Phil Donahue 0:02:56.760 --> 0:03:00.760 released a book and podcast of marriage advice called from 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:06.240 interviews with other happy, long lasting couples. As a philanthropist, 0:03:06.360 --> 0:03:11.079 she's continued her family's support for Saint Jude's Children's Research 0:03:11.160 --> 0:03:15.960 Hospital in Memphis, which her father founded in nineteen sixty two. 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:20.079 All in all, quite a life for that girl. Growing 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.240 up in Beverly Hills. Marlowe says she and her siblings 0:03:23.560 --> 0:03:25.600 spent a lot of time on the set of The 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.440 Danny Thomas Show, her father's TV series, which ran for 0:03:29.560 --> 0:03:33.880 eleven seasons between nineteen fifty three to nineteen sixty four. 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:37.600 We all used to work at the studio in the summer, 0:03:38.120 --> 0:03:40.480 you know, running film back and forth, and when we 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:44.080 could drive, we'd drop off scripts. So we were kind 0:03:44.080 --> 0:03:47.080 of like interns, and my dad would pay us an 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:50.880 allowance to keep us off the street. And my dad 0:03:50.960 --> 0:03:52.440 was a kind of guy, and I have a feeling 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.119 here this way. He loved having his kids around him. 0:03:55.560 --> 0:03:59.280 He just loved it. And when we were children, we 0:03:59.280 --> 0:04:02.080 were allowed to see in on writers meetings. We'd sit 0:04:02.160 --> 0:04:04.800 on the floor and the writers would all be talking 0:04:04.800 --> 0:04:08.040 about coming up stories or my dad's act in Las Vegas, 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:10.360 and I would laugh and Dad would say, Oh, my 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:12.680 kid loves it. Why'd you like that, honey? What was 0:04:12.680 --> 0:04:13.320 funny about that? 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:15.000 To you? He was interested. 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.200 And then sometimes I'd say something and he'd say, my 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:19.479 kids are so funny. 0:04:19.560 --> 0:04:21.960 They are funnier than I am. So he gave us 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:24.600 this feeling. He kind of empowered us. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:26.680 I mean, I always thought I was brilliant, and I 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:28.400 have no idea if I am or I am not, 0:04:28.800 --> 0:04:31.120 but I think I am because he said I was right, 0:04:31.200 --> 0:04:32.520 and he did that for all of us. 0:04:32.839 --> 0:04:33.640 He gave us that. 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.160 It's like Lauren Michaels would always say that his kids 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:37.240 were like his focus group. 0:04:37.880 --> 0:04:38.120 Yeah. 0:04:38.480 --> 0:04:40.719 I used to say to Lauren, you know, you're a 0:04:40.720 --> 0:04:44.520 couple generations removed from some of the musical acts that 0:04:44.560 --> 0:04:47.039 are starring on the show. Now, his daughter Sophie is older. 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.120 Now she's graduating college. But when Sophie was a teenager, 0:04:50.120 --> 0:04:52.400 when going to school in New York, I'd say to Laurene, 0:04:52.880 --> 0:04:55.200 how do you determine who the musical acts are on 0:04:55.240 --> 0:04:58.200 the show? And he'd say, who's ever in Sophie's iPod? 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:00.680 That's right exactly. 0:05:01.080 --> 0:05:02.200 Muse extremely to see. 0:05:02.040 --> 0:05:03.560 Who she was listening to exactly. 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:07.120 But tell people how the studio. What studio was he 0:05:07.160 --> 0:05:11.160 at Desi Lou He was at Desilu, Yeah, and that 0:05:11.279 --> 0:05:13.560 was like what like Sunset Gower or somewhere in like Hollywood. 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:15.920 Yeah, it was below Sunset on Gower. 0:05:16.200 --> 0:05:18.120 But you were born in Michigan. 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:21.040 Yeah, but for five minutes, I was born in Detroit. 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:23.080 Now, why was the family in Detroit? 0:05:23.600 --> 0:05:26.520 My mom had a radio show there, the Sweet Singer 0:05:26.520 --> 0:05:29.240 of Sweet Songs, and my dad came on as her 0:05:29.279 --> 0:05:31.800 announcer and they fell in love. And then he wanted 0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:33.919 to go to Chicago, where the bigger nightclubs were. He 0:05:34.000 --> 0:05:36.880 was really a nightclub performer. So she had to make 0:05:36.880 --> 0:05:39.800 the decision in those days, give up the show and 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.120 go with the guy she loved to Chicago. She got 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:45.680 pregnant and that was the decision, and off they went 0:05:46.160 --> 0:05:49.480 to Chicago for a couple of years. And then Abe 0:05:49.560 --> 0:05:52.760 last Wogel was coming through on the whatever that was 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:57.280 that Pacific Railroad. He represented Sinatra and Danny Kay and 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.320 Judy Garland, so he was very well known. He was 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.440 told that there was a great comic he should stop 0:06:03.480 --> 0:06:05.760 and see on his way to New York, and he 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.400 saw my father and he signed him up and brought 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.760 him to Hollywood right away, and he said to my father, 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.239 you know, you're a star, you should come to come. 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:15.599 To La So that's a pattern in your family, the 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:17.720 women in your family marrying men that they meet on 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:19.320 radio shows and TV shows. 0:06:19.600 --> 0:06:19.920 Right. 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:23.200 So you're out there in the fifties, you moved to California. 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:25.000 Where did you go to school out there? Beverly Hills 0:06:25.080 --> 0:06:25.560 High School? 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:27.720 No, Marymount went to mary She went. 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:31.360 To a Catholic school. Yeah, your father's an old school Lebanese. 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:33.600 I went to Marymount. My husband went to Notre Dame. 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:37.400 So we were raised the same way. Actually, and he's 0:06:37.400 --> 0:06:39.640 from Cleveland and I'm from Beverly Hills. But we have 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:41.120 the same upbringing. 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.440 Really strict Catholic upbringing. 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:45.440 Yeah. Yeah. 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:49.080 And when the time comes for you to launch your 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:54.159 own career, you start that girl in nineteen sixty six, 0:06:54.640 --> 0:06:57.880 sixty six, and you're a young woman. You're very young, right. 0:06:57.920 --> 0:06:59.560 Well, I had done a pilot. 0:07:00.279 --> 0:07:04.880 You know, everything in this business is wonderfully progressive. I 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:09.000 had bumped around doing seventy seven Sunset Strip and Dobie 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:13.520 Gillis and all these terrible shows. Laura Badi did Adobe Gillis. 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.040 I didn't know, mister d Not that bad, but pretty bad. 0:07:16.080 --> 0:07:18.640 I did all those shows. I played a Chinese girl 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:21.360 on Bonanza. Nobody knew what to do with me. I 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.680 was a Chinese girl. I played a Hawaiian girl. I 0:07:23.720 --> 0:07:26.560 played an Arabian girl. They never saw me as the 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:27.360 girl next door. 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:30.600 You wouldn't get cast as the Chinese girl now, right, But. 0:07:30.640 --> 0:07:33.840 With my coloring, I'm out of complexion, dark hair, dark eyes, 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:36.800 so they could only They never saw me as the 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:39.679 girl next door. But I was cast in a pilot 0:07:39.760 --> 0:07:43.280 at Universal called Two's Company, which was an adorable show 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:47.280 by a young couple, and it didn't sell. But the 0:07:47.360 --> 0:07:49.840 head of the network called me, Edgar Sharrick, and he said, 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.960 Claire al almost bought the show because they think you 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.480 can be a TV star, so we'd like to talk 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:55.720 to you. 0:07:56.520 --> 0:07:57.240 So I went in. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.920 I was disappointed the show didn't sell because I loved 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:03.800 and they said we want to do a show starring you. 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.640 And they gave me a whole bunch of scripts to read. 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.040 And I called them up and I said, all the 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:11.720 shows you've given me to read, the girl is the 0:08:11.760 --> 0:08:15.680 wife of somebody, the secretary of somebody, the daughter of somebody. 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:17.680 Have you ever thought about doing a show where the 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:20.640 girl is the somebody? And he said, would anybody watch 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:22.960 a show like that? I said, I think so. When 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:25.280 I gave him a book Feminine Mystique, I said, read this. 0:08:25.440 --> 0:08:26.840 He called me up and he said, this is what's 0:08:26.840 --> 0:08:29.560 going to happen to my wife. And it did, actually, 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:32.120 So we built a show based on that. A girl 0:08:32.160 --> 0:08:34.959 like me graduated from college, didn't want to get married, 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:36.680 wanted to be an actress, wanted to move to the 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.679 big city, and everybody said it wouldn't succeed. 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:42.600 And that first night, Wow, it got a forty share 0:08:42.920 --> 0:08:43.520 on ABC. 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:45.960 Yeah, and all of a sudden, I was the ultimate 0:08:46.000 --> 0:08:48.560 girl next door, which was so funny because I could 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.080 never get cast like that. And then I became the 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:54.520 girl next door so much in people's minds that it's 0:08:54.760 --> 0:08:57.360 very hard for me to play meaner people. 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.200 The murderous. Yeah, I have a script for you where 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:00.800 you play a woman that murders people. 0:09:00.880 --> 0:09:01.560 That's what I want. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:03.840 I'm having trouble raising money for the film that would 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:04.640 attached as a. 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:06.400 Murderers and I'll do it for nothing. 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:08.600 A lot of the financiers, a lot of the investors 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:11.000 I'm talking to aren't buying you as a murderist. But 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:11.719 I'll work on it. 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:12.360 I can do it. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.360 But let me ask you this. Obviously, in the sixties, 0:09:15.800 --> 0:09:20.120 the looming cultural reality is the Vietnam War, and a 0:09:20.160 --> 0:09:22.480 lot of programming and a lot of music and things 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.400 are things that help us to forget and feminism, in 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:28.160 my mind, doesn't really get rolling till the seventies. And 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.319 your show's over by seventy one. We're going to talk 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:33.600 later on about Free to Be You and Me. But 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:36.760 at the moment that you do the show, you were 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.160 doing Barefoot in the Park in London. 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:39.040 Yeah, right. 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.880 And I often tell people that when a company is 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.960 kind of mounting up their slate, it's a relatively new company. 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:51.319 So when HBO decides it wants to do original program 0:09:51.440 --> 0:09:54.120 and they get Sarah Jessica to do Sex in the City, 0:09:54.160 --> 0:09:57.400 they get Jimmy Guandolfini and David Chase to do the Sopranos, 0:09:57.480 --> 0:09:59.560 and they pay these people a lot of money to 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:02.079 stay with the show and do the hit show for 0:10:02.120 --> 0:10:04.960 a long long time. And really, ABC was a fledgling 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:07.920 network in the sixties. I mean there was CBS that 0:10:08.040 --> 0:10:10.560 was NBC and ABC was like the red headed step 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.599 child behind the two of them, and Leonard Goldberg and 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:16.000 all those people were building the company during that time. 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:18.640 Did you feel that was a part of their faith 0:10:18.640 --> 0:10:20.720 in you and their needed you were part of building 0:10:20.720 --> 0:10:21.400 that network. 0:10:21.760 --> 0:10:22.120 Yeah. 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:26.160 Money doesn't talk, it it speaks obscenities, right, Clara was 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:28.360 willing to put up all the money for my show. 0:10:28.640 --> 0:10:32.800 They wanted a woman, a young woman, to sell shampoo, 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:35.320 and I was their girl. I mean, there wasn't another 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.320 girl they could see yet, and I'm sure there were many, 0:10:38.360 --> 0:10:41.000 but there wasn't one. They saw me as I could 0:10:41.040 --> 0:10:44.600 sell the shampoo and a conditioner and the makeup and everything, 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.480 and so they fixated on me, and that gave me 0:10:47.600 --> 0:10:50.840 tremendous power to get my show done. And so as 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.960 we embarked on how to get this show written and created, 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:57.520 I used to play charades with Bill Persky and Sam Denoff, 0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:00.600 who had won a couple of Emmy for the Dick 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:04.199 Van Dyke Show. And so I said to them ABC 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:06.839 wants to do a show with me, and we're looking 0:11:06.880 --> 0:11:09.520 for writers. Would you ever consider writing a show about 0:11:09.520 --> 0:11:12.800 a girl? Because they'd only written guy shows, And they 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:15.400 said that'd be great. We'd love to. 0:11:15.360 --> 0:11:16.000 Talk about it. 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:19.920 Mike nicholsond cast me in Barefoot in London. They came 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.880 to London to see my Opening Night and then they 0:11:23.280 --> 0:11:26.600 decided to do it, and so they wrote the pilot 0:11:27.000 --> 0:11:30.320 and when it sold, they weren't willing to sign up 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:33.400 for five years. Nobody really wants to sign a five 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.080 year contract, as you know, everybody, you know, we cringe 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:39.079 when we see a five year contract. And Danny Arnold 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:41.360 was going to be the producer. He only wanted to 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.080 sign up for two years. Billy and Sam. So the 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.839 only person who said I'll be here for five years 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:50.640 was me, So I became the producer. Otherwise, had they 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:53.400 said it, they probably would have been the producer. So 0:11:53.440 --> 0:11:56.400 not only did I become the producer, I own the negative. 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.800 I own the whole thing. And that only happened because 0:12:00.000 --> 0:12:01.760 I was the only one who said I'll do it, 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:06.079 and I had learned so much working from my father 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:09.800 at the studio. Nothing was a mystery. And you know, 0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:13.760 in every profession, whether it's show business or law or 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:18.280 interior design or whatever it is, it's mysterious. But when 0:12:18.320 --> 0:12:21.000 you know the language, it isn't. I mean, I knew 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:22.839 what a scrim was. I knew what dailies where. I 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.480 knew what the editing machine with the three heads looked like. 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:27.760 I knew what musical scoring was. I knew what a 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:28.520 red tape was. 0:12:28.559 --> 0:12:29.240 I knew it all. 0:12:29.679 --> 0:12:32.640 So because I had just been a bug on the 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.720 wall and been the one who carried the film from 0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.520 one end of the studio to the other, and been 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:42.839 interested in sat in and watched people, I was very knowledgeable. 0:12:43.400 --> 0:12:46.240 And I certainly was knowledgeable about comedy. I mean I 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.800 knew comedy. I'd done Barefoot in the Park, I'd done 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:52.120 under the ummem Tree, I had done Blotsmanagerie. I had 0:12:52.160 --> 0:12:55.520 done a million plays by then. I was only twenty 0:12:55.520 --> 0:12:58.360 five years old. But as you know, when you start out, 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.760 you're just doing stopuck, you know, or three city plays. 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.200 I did two for the Seesaw and three cities. So 0:13:05.240 --> 0:13:07.440 I was very good on the stage. I mean I 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.120 had my sea legs, so I was ready. 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:10.360 You know. 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:14.600 Whenever I speak at colleges and stuff, and people ask me, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.000 you know, how do I get started? I said, start 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.640 in a little theater. Get into little theater and do 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:22.240 as many plays as you can do. Because I believe 0:13:22.280 --> 0:13:25.880 everybody gets a shot, but not everybody gets a second shot. 0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:27.920 But if you're ready for your first shot. I was 0:13:28.400 --> 0:13:31.280 when I was cast by Mike and Barefoot. I auditioned 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:34.440 for him with about, I don't know, one hundred people. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.520 They gave me Marty Milner as my partner. We said 0:13:37.520 --> 0:13:39.400 how do you do and got up on stuff twelve 0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:43.360 see yeah, And I got the part. And Mike said 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.199 to me later, who are you? What have you done? 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.600 And I told him, for a kid, I was pretty seasoned, 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:51.040 and so I was ready. So when I came back 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.480 from Barefoot, I was really strong. I've been a year 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:57.559 there and I was very strong and so and by 0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:02.120 strong I mean not scared, knowing how to do it 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:06.480 and trusting my instincts. I love working with actors. I 0:14:06.559 --> 0:14:08.920 love being a part of a company, and we had 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:09.840 a great company. 0:14:09.880 --> 0:14:12.000 Ted Bessel was aces. 0:14:12.000 --> 0:14:14.280 Apropos of what you said about, you know, being in 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:16.480 the theater. I always tell people when they're younger, I 0:14:16.520 --> 0:14:19.200 say do anything. I said, don't have a lot of 0:14:19.200 --> 0:14:22.240 pride about what you do. Don't say no to anything. 0:14:22.280 --> 0:14:24.280 You got to put that energy out there and give 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.080 it up. You know what I mean? Now I know 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:28.480 that the world was much smaller than it is now. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:32.200 Now there's so many shows. There's too many shows. There's 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:34.040 no way we can have everything be good. I mean, 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.840 there's just too much content out there. And everybody's chasing 0:14:36.840 --> 0:14:40.200 the same actors. Everybody's chasing the same writers, right and 0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:43.440 for you back then, Perski and these famous writers, I'm 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.440 imagining that the television landscape was very finite back then. 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:48.440 So finding good writers, there weren't a. 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.000 Lot of them, were there, right, right, No, they weren't. No, 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:54.640 they were pretty stellar. The show was that good because 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:57.920 they were so good, you know, as you Danny Arnold 0:14:58.000 --> 0:15:02.000 later created Barney Miller, which is fantastic show. Sure, and 0:15:02.120 --> 0:15:03.920 Billy went on to do Kate n Ally and a 0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.640 whole lot of very good women's shows. He got to 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:10.760 become a real guru for women's shows. They were very 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:14.040 gifted people. And the thing is is they would rewrite everything. 0:15:14.440 --> 0:15:16.560 You know, We'd get a script and it would be 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.160 kind of so so, but it had a good premise, 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.240 and they'd rewrite the hell out of it and bring 0:15:21.280 --> 0:15:23.160 it back to the table and it was fantastic. 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:24.920 And then the person. 0:15:24.640 --> 0:15:26.600 Whose name was on it would win an Emmy for it, 0:15:27.040 --> 0:15:29.400 and then somebody like you would call and say, is 0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:32.120 this the same Joe blow that you had because his 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.760 script is not very good, but our guys had completely 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:36.360 redone it. 0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:45.200 Actress and activist Marlo Thomas Her push for equal rights 0:15:45.600 --> 0:15:49.200 was part of the larger conversation about gender equality in 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.440 the seventies. Feminism was also a heated topic in my 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:57.840 twenty twelve conversation with author Erica Jong and her daughter 0:15:58.080 --> 0:15:59.400 Molli jang Fast. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.600 I think that women who are fourteen fifteen are in 0:16:03.680 --> 0:16:07.960 the most difficult position they have ever been in modern society. 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:08.720 What do you think about that? 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:11.640 I mean, I agree, I think there's a lot of sexuality. 0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:15.040 I think it's not explained to young girls in. 0:16:14.960 --> 0:16:17.160 A way very confusing, Molly. 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.080 But I think that's a legacy of the feminist movement. 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:22.600 I mean, we said we want not a legacy of 0:16:22.600 --> 0:16:25.400 the feminist movement. It is a legacy, and here I 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:29.240 really feel fierce. It is the legacy of a distortion 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:32.560 of women's desire for equal rights. 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:35.440 Equal rights are not platforms shoes. 0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:38.160 You can't and naked clothes equal rights. 0:16:38.160 --> 0:16:40.160 But you can't blow up an ad Am bomb and 0:16:40.160 --> 0:16:41.440 then choose how it's going to go. 0:16:43.440 --> 0:16:46.800 Here more of my conversation with Erica Jong and Mali 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:51.760 Jang Fast and Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.160 marlow Thomas explains why she went to New York to 0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:59.640 study acting with Lee Strasberg after her success on TV. 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:15.200 I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:20.520 As executive producer and star of That Girl, Marlowe Thomas 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:24.160 worked closely with the writers to make her character Anne 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:25.760 Marie more believable. 0:17:26.440 --> 0:17:28.600 Yeah, it's a regular company. You know. 0:17:28.760 --> 0:17:31.919 You sit around and say, let's do an arc where 0:17:32.359 --> 0:17:35.240 she's looking for a job and she gets these four jobs. 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.439 Or let's do an arc where her father wants her 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.320 to move back home, you know, and so you talk 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:43.399 about the arc, and then we'd read to have a 0:17:43.440 --> 0:17:47.760 table read, and everybody would give their comments. There were 0:17:47.880 --> 0:17:52.520 very few times where, you know, there were any huge debates. 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:57.360 You know, I've always felt about story that what's right 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:58.320 always wins. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:17:59.000 You know. 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.920 The first year was a little difficult because I was 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.680 the only girl on the staff. You know, they staffed 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:06.320 the show. I didn't staff the show. I didn't know 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:06.879 any writers. 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:08.560 I was a kid. How would I know writers. 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:10.760 So they staffed the show with a lot of terrific 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.199 guy writers, in which I would say, I don't think 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:17.480 a girl would say that to her father, or I 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:19.199 don't know that's the way a girl would end an 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:22.720 argument with her boyfriend. So we'd have these debates. So 0:18:22.840 --> 0:18:25.400 finally Danny Arnold, who was one of the smartest guys 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:27.199 in the world, said, you know what we need. We 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.000 need a female story editor. You can't be the only 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:33.000 girl in the room. And so the female story editor 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.720 came on and that was heaven because she was able 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:41.359 from her expertise and her ability to write, to say, 0:18:41.440 --> 0:18:43.760 you know, let's go this way. The only real debate 0:18:43.840 --> 0:18:47.000 we ever had was they wanted to be a wedding. 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:47.600 For the last show. 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.080 Clara al wanted a wedding. ABC wanted a wedding. The 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.399 producers wanted a wedding, and I said, we can't do 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:56.919 a wedding. We can't end the show with a wedding. 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:01.280 If we end the show with a wedding, this audience, 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.480 which has followed this character for five years, she's independent, 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:08.360 she doesn't want to get married, she's not sure she 0:19:08.400 --> 0:19:11.160 wants to get married. She wants a career. We've had 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.679 so many of those conversations. To have a wedding is 0:19:14.720 --> 0:19:18.640 to betray them. I think we're saying that's the only 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:22.280 happy ending, and lots of shows end with weddings. I 0:19:22.320 --> 0:19:24.679 don't want this show to end with a wedding. And 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:27.479 that was a problem. That was the only one. And 0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.480 the interesting thing is, I mean, obviously they let me 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:33.280 have it that way, and then a couple years later 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:35.679 Billy and Sambo said to me that was such a 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.040 right idea because it had gone into syndication. 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:39.960 That way, the show is over. 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:42.800 Once you see the show run through and you see 0:19:42.840 --> 0:19:45.600 the wedding, then you know how the story ends. But 0:19:45.760 --> 0:19:48.720 I would have felt it would have been a wrong 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:52.240 message to say this is the only happy ending. And Alec, 0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:55.320 I'll tell you the mail that poured in about that. 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.879 Thank you, thank you Marlon for not coming out, thank you, 0:19:59.000 --> 0:20:01.399