1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin, and you were listening to Here's 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,920 Speaker 1: the Thing from iHeart Radio. It's summer and that means 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,760 Speaker 1: it's time for our tradition at Here's the Thing. Will 4 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: the staff share their favorite episodes from our archives in 5 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: our summer staff picks series? Next up? As executive producer 6 00:00:19,120 --> 00:00:20,120 Speaker 1: Kathy Russo. 7 00:00:21,079 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 2: Thanks Alec White, go go boots, fishnet stockings, fake eyelashes, 8 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: mini dresses, and that hair with the bangs and the 9 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: flip at the end. That was That Girl, the series 10 00:00:33,680 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 2: I watched on my black and white TV in Upstate 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:38,560 Speaker 2: New York when I was six years old in nineteen 12 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:43,360 Speaker 2: sixty six. That was Marlo Thomas playing an independent would 13 00:00:43,360 --> 00:00:46,360 Speaker 2: be actress named Anne Marie. The show is about a 14 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: woman from Bruster, New York that moves to the big 15 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: city to chase her dreams and I couldn't wait to 16 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: watch every week. Marlo Thomas is my summer pick for 17 00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 2: archive episode. 18 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 3: This week. 19 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 2: In the interview, Alec discusses Mallo's acting career from That 20 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:05,759 Speaker 2: Girl to Friends. They also talk about her political activism, 21 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: her children's books, and her longtime marriage to talk show 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 2: host Phil Donahue. But most importantly, they discussed her work 23 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:17,960 Speaker 2: with Saint Jude's Children's Hospital, started by her father, the 24 00:01:18,000 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 2: actor Danny Thomas. At Saint Jude's, no parent pays for 25 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 2: medical care for their child. I loved this interview because 26 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:30,120 Speaker 2: with Marlowe, what you see is what you get, a 27 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: warm and loving woman who cares deeply and takes action 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:38,319 Speaker 2: to do good in the world, all while chasing her dreams. 29 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:45,319 Speaker 1: Over the course of her illustrious career, Marlo Thomas has 30 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: broken barriers for women as an award winning actress. Marlowe 31 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 1: became a household name from her portrayal of Anne Marie, 32 00:01:54,760 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: the lead in the television show That Girl, a woman 33 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: who in the late sixties wanted a career more than 34 00:02:01,880 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 1: a family. An outspoken feminist, Marlowe then used her fame 35 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: to launch Free to Be You and Me, which was 36 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: first an album, then a book, and eventually an Emmy 37 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 1: and Peabody Award winning TV show for children that challenged 38 00:02:28,639 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 1: gender norms and became a touchstone for a generation of 39 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: feminists and Her best selling books include a memoir about 40 00:02:48,000 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: growing up the adored daughter of TV star Danny Thomas, 41 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: and just last year, she and her husband Phil Donahue 42 00:02:56,760 --> 00:03:00,760 Speaker 1: released a book and podcast of marriage advice called from 43 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:06,240 Speaker 1: interviews with other happy, long lasting couples. As a philanthropist, 44 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,079 Speaker 1: she's continued her family's support for Saint Jude's Children's Research 45 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: Hospital in Memphis, which her father founded in nineteen sixty two. 46 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: All in all, quite a life for that girl. Growing 47 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,240 Speaker 1: up in Beverly Hills. Marlowe says she and her siblings 48 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on the set of The 49 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: Danny Thomas Show, her father's TV series, which ran for 50 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 1: eleven seasons between nineteen fifty three to nineteen sixty four. 51 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 4: We all used to work at the studio in the summer, 52 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 4: you know, running film back and forth, and when we 53 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 4: could drive, we'd drop off scripts. So we were kind 54 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 4: of like interns, and my dad would pay us an 55 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 4: allowance to keep us off the street. And my dad 56 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 4: was a kind of guy, and I have a feeling 57 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,119 Speaker 4: here this way. He loved having his kids around him. 58 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 4: He just loved it. And when we were children, we 59 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 4: were allowed to see in on writers meetings. We'd sit 60 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 4: on the floor and the writers would all be talking 61 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 4: about coming up stories or my dad's act in Las Vegas, 62 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 4: and I would laugh and Dad would say, Oh, my 63 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 4: kid loves it. Why'd you like that, honey? What was 64 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 4: funny about that? 65 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 3: To you? He was interested. 66 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 4: And then sometimes I'd say something and he'd say, my 67 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:19,479 Speaker 4: kids are so funny. 68 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 3: They are funnier than I am. So he gave us 69 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 3: this feeling. He kind of empowered us. 70 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 4: I mean, I always thought I was brilliant, and I 71 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 4: have no idea if I am or I am not, 72 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 4: but I think I am because he said I was right, 73 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 4: and he did that for all of us. 74 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 3: He gave us that. 75 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: It's like Lauren Michaels would always say that his kids 76 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 1: were like his focus group. 77 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:38,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 78 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: I used to say to Lauren, you know, you're a 79 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: couple generations removed from some of the musical acts that 80 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,039 Speaker 1: are starring on the show. Now, his daughter Sophie is older. 81 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 1: Now she's graduating college. But when Sophie was a teenager, 82 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,400 Speaker 1: when going to school in New York, I'd say to Laurene, 83 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: how do you determine who the musical acts are on 84 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: the show? And he'd say, who's ever in Sophie's iPod? 85 00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 3: That's right exactly. 86 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: Muse extremely to see. 87 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,560 Speaker 3: Who she was listening to exactly. 88 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 1: But tell people how the studio. What studio was he 89 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:11,160 Speaker 1: at Desi Lou He was at Desilu, Yeah, and that 90 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,560 Speaker 1: was like what like Sunset Gower or somewhere in like Hollywood. 91 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was below Sunset on Gower. 92 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: But you were born in Michigan. 93 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, but for five minutes, I was born in Detroit. 94 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 1: Now, why was the family in Detroit? 95 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,520 Speaker 4: My mom had a radio show there, the Sweet Singer 96 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 4: of Sweet Songs, and my dad came on as her 97 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 4: announcer and they fell in love. And then he wanted 98 00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 4: to go to Chicago, where the bigger nightclubs were. He 99 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 4: was really a nightclub performer. So she had to make 100 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:39,800 Speaker 4: the decision in those days, give up the show and 101 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 4: go with the guy she loved to Chicago. She got 102 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 4: pregnant and that was the decision, and off they went 103 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 4: to Chicago for a couple of years. And then Abe 104 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 4: last Wogel was coming through on the whatever that was 105 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:57,280 Speaker 4: that Pacific Railroad. He represented Sinatra and Danny Kay and 106 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 4: Judy Garland, so he was very well known. He was 107 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 4: told that there was a great comic he should stop 108 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:05,760 Speaker 4: and see on his way to New York, and he 109 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 4: saw my father and he signed him up and brought 110 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 4: him to Hollywood right away, and he said to my father, 111 00:06:10,800 --> 00:06:13,239 Speaker 4: you know, you're a star, you should come to come. 112 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: To La So that's a pattern in your family, the 113 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 1: women in your family marrying men that they meet on 114 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: radio shows and TV shows. 115 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:19,920 Speaker 3: Right. 116 00:06:20,240 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: So you're out there in the fifties, you moved to California. 117 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,000 Speaker 1: Where did you go to school out there? Beverly Hills 118 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: High School? 119 00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 3: No, Marymount went to mary She went. 120 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: To a Catholic school. Yeah, your father's an old school Lebanese. 121 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 4: I went to Marymount. My husband went to Notre Dame. 122 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 4: So we were raised the same way. Actually, and he's 123 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 4: from Cleveland and I'm from Beverly Hills. But we have 124 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 4: the same upbringing. 125 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: Really strict Catholic upbringing. 126 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:45,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 127 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,080 Speaker 1: And when the time comes for you to launch your 128 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:54,159 Speaker 1: own career, you start that girl in nineteen sixty six, 129 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 1: sixty six, and you're a young woman. You're very young, right. 130 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 3: Well, I had done a pilot. 131 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 4: You know, everything in this business is wonderfully progressive. I 132 00:07:04,920 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 4: had bumped around doing seventy seven Sunset Strip and Dobie 133 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 4: Gillis and all these terrible shows. Laura Badi did Adobe Gillis. 134 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,040 Speaker 4: I didn't know, mister d Not that bad, but pretty bad. 135 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 4: I did all those shows. I played a Chinese girl 136 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 4: on Bonanza. Nobody knew what to do with me. I 137 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,680 Speaker 4: was a Chinese girl. I played a Hawaiian girl. I 138 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 4: played an Arabian girl. They never saw me as the 139 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 4: girl next door. 140 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 1: You wouldn't get cast as the Chinese girl now, right, But. 141 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 4: With my coloring, I'm out of complexion, dark hair, dark eyes, 142 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 4: so they could only They never saw me as the 143 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,679 Speaker 4: girl next door. But I was cast in a pilot 144 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:43,280 Speaker 4: at Universal called Two's Company, which was an adorable show 145 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 4: by a young couple, and it didn't sell. But the 146 00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 4: head of the network called me, Edgar Sharrick, and he said, 147 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 4: Claire al almost bought the show because they think you 148 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 4: can be a TV star, so we'd like to talk 149 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 4: to you. 150 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 3: So I went in. 151 00:07:57,720 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 4: I was disappointed the show didn't sell because I loved 152 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 4: and they said we want to do a show starring you. 153 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 4: And they gave me a whole bunch of scripts to read. 154 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:09,040 Speaker 4: And I called them up and I said, all the 155 00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 4: shows you've given me to read, the girl is the 156 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,680 Speaker 4: wife of somebody, the secretary of somebody, the daughter of somebody. 157 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:17,680 Speaker 4: Have you ever thought about doing a show where the 158 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 4: girl is the somebody? And he said, would anybody watch 159 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 4: a show like that? I said, I think so. When 160 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 4: I gave him a book Feminine Mystique, I said, read this. 161 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 4: He called me up and he said, this is what's 162 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,560 Speaker 4: going to happen to my wife. And it did, actually, 163 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 4: So we built a show based on that. A girl 164 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:34,959 Speaker 4: like me graduated from college, didn't want to get married, 165 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:36,680 Speaker 4: wanted to be an actress, wanted to move to the 166 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,679 Speaker 4: big city, and everybody said it wouldn't succeed. 167 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:42,600 Speaker 3: And that first night, Wow, it got a forty share 168 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 3: on ABC. 169 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, and all of a sudden, I was the ultimate 170 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 4: girl next door, which was so funny because I could 171 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:52,080 Speaker 4: never get cast like that. And then I became the 172 00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 4: girl next door so much in people's minds that it's 173 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 4: very hard for me to play meaner people. 174 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,200 Speaker 1: The murderous. Yeah, I have a script for you where 175 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: you play a woman that murders people. 176 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 3: That's what I want. 177 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:03,840 Speaker 1: I'm having trouble raising money for the film that would 178 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: attached as a. 179 00:09:04,679 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 3: Murderers and I'll do it for nothing. 180 00:09:06,559 --> 00:09:08,600 Speaker 1: A lot of the financiers, a lot of the investors 181 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: I'm talking to aren't buying you as a murderist. But 182 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 1: I'll work on it. 183 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 3: I can do it. 184 00:09:12,440 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 1: But let me ask you this. Obviously, in the sixties, 185 00:09:15,800 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: the looming cultural reality is the Vietnam War, and a 186 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 1: lot of programming and a lot of music and things 187 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: are things that help us to forget and feminism, in 188 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: my mind, doesn't really get rolling till the seventies. And 189 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: your show's over by seventy one. We're going to talk 190 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: later on about Free to Be You and Me. But 191 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: at the moment that you do the show, you were 192 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: doing Barefoot in the Park in London. 193 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, right. 194 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: And I often tell people that when a company is 195 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: kind of mounting up their slate, it's a relatively new company. 196 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:51,319 Speaker 1: So when HBO decides it wants to do original program 197 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 1: and they get Sarah Jessica to do Sex in the City, 198 00:09:54,160 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: they get Jimmy Guandolfini and David Chase to do the Sopranos, 199 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 1: and they pay these people a lot of money to 200 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: stay with the show and do the hit show for 201 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: a long long time. And really, ABC was a fledgling 202 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: network in the sixties. I mean there was CBS that 203 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,560 Speaker 1: was NBC and ABC was like the red headed step 204 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,599 Speaker 1: child behind the two of them, and Leonard Goldberg and 205 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 1: all those people were building the company during that time. 206 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 1: Did you feel that was a part of their faith 207 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 1: in you and their needed you were part of building 208 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: that network. 209 00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 3: Yeah. 210 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 4: Money doesn't talk, it it speaks obscenities, right, Clara was 211 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,360 Speaker 4: willing to put up all the money for my show. 212 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 4: They wanted a woman, a young woman, to sell shampoo, 213 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 4: and I was their girl. I mean, there wasn't another 214 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,320 Speaker 4: girl they could see yet, and I'm sure there were many, 215 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 4: but there wasn't one. They saw me as I could 216 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,600 Speaker 4: sell the shampoo and a conditioner and the makeup and everything, 217 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 4: and so they fixated on me, and that gave me 218 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 4: tremendous power to get my show done. And so as 219 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:53,960 Speaker 4: we embarked on how to get this show written and created, 220 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,520 Speaker 4: I used to play charades with Bill Persky and Sam Denoff, 221 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 4: who had won a couple of Emmy for the Dick 222 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 4: Van Dyke Show. And so I said to them ABC 223 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:06,839 Speaker 4: wants to do a show with me, and we're looking 224 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 4: for writers. Would you ever consider writing a show about 225 00:11:09,520 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 4: a girl? Because they'd only written guy shows, And they 226 00:11:12,840 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 4: said that'd be great. We'd love to. 227 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 3: Talk about it. 228 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,920 Speaker 4: Mike nicholsond cast me in Barefoot in London. They came 229 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 4: to London to see my Opening Night and then they 230 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 4: decided to do it, and so they wrote the pilot 231 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 4: and when it sold, they weren't willing to sign up 232 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 4: for five years. Nobody really wants to sign a five 233 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 4: year contract, as you know, everybody, you know, we cringe 234 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,079 Speaker 4: when we see a five year contract. And Danny Arnold 235 00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 4: was going to be the producer. He only wanted to 236 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 4: sign up for two years. Billy and Sam. So the 237 00:11:44,120 --> 00:11:46,839 Speaker 4: only person who said I'll be here for five years 238 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 4: was me, So I became the producer. Otherwise, had they 239 00:11:50,679 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 4: said it, they probably would have been the producer. So 240 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 4: not only did I become the producer, I own the negative. 241 00:11:56,720 --> 00:11:59,800 Speaker 4: I own the whole thing. And that only happened because 242 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:01,760 Speaker 4: I was the only one who said I'll do it, 243 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 4: and I had learned so much working from my father 244 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 4: at the studio. Nothing was a mystery. And you know, 245 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,760 Speaker 4: in every profession, whether it's show business or law or 246 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 4: interior design or whatever it is, it's mysterious. But when 247 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 4: you know the language, it isn't. I mean, I knew 248 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,839 Speaker 4: what a scrim was. I knew what dailies where. I 249 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 4: knew what the editing machine with the three heads looked like. 250 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,760 Speaker 4: I knew what musical scoring was. I knew what a 251 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 4: red tape was. 252 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 3: I knew it all. 253 00:12:29,679 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 4: So because I had just been a bug on the 254 00:12:32,679 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 4: wall and been the one who carried the film from 255 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 4: one end of the studio to the other, and been 256 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:42,839 Speaker 4: interested in sat in and watched people, I was very knowledgeable. 257 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,240 Speaker 4: And I certainly was knowledgeable about comedy. I mean I 258 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 4: knew comedy. I'd done Barefoot in the Park, I'd done 259 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 4: under the ummem Tree, I had done Blotsmanagerie. I had 260 00:12:52,160 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 4: done a million plays by then. I was only twenty 261 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:58,360 Speaker 4: five years old. But as you know, when you start out, 262 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 4: you're just doing stopuck, you know, or three city plays. 263 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 4: I did two for the Seesaw and three cities. So 264 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,440 Speaker 4: I was very good on the stage. I mean I 265 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 4: had my sea legs, so I was ready. 266 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 3: You know. 267 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 4: Whenever I speak at colleges and stuff, and people ask me, 268 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 4: you know, how do I get started? I said, start 269 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 4: in a little theater. Get into little theater and do 270 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,240 Speaker 4: as many plays as you can do. Because I believe 271 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 4: everybody gets a shot, but not everybody gets a second shot. 272 00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 4: But if you're ready for your first shot. I was 273 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,280 Speaker 4: when I was cast by Mike and Barefoot. I auditioned 274 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:34,440 Speaker 4: for him with about, I don't know, one hundred people. 275 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 4: They gave me Marty Milner as my partner. We said 276 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 4: how do you do and got up on stuff twelve 277 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,360 Speaker 4: see yeah, And I got the part. And Mike said 278 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 4: to me later, who are you? What have you done? 279 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 4: And I told him, for a kid, I was pretty seasoned, 280 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 4: and so I was ready. So when I came back 281 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 4: from Barefoot, I was really strong. I've been a year 282 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,559 Speaker 4: there and I was very strong and so and by 283 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 4: strong I mean not scared, knowing how to do it 284 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 4: and trusting my instincts. I love working with actors. I 285 00:14:06,559 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 4: love being a part of a company, and we had 286 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 4: a great company. 287 00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 3: Ted Bessel was aces. 288 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:14,280 Speaker 1: Apropos of what you said about, you know, being in 289 00:14:14,280 --> 00:14:16,480 Speaker 1: the theater. I always tell people when they're younger, I 290 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 1: say do anything. I said, don't have a lot of 291 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: pride about what you do. Don't say no to anything. 292 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 1: You got to put that energy out there and give 293 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: it up. You know what I mean? Now I know 294 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 1: that the world was much smaller than it is now. 295 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: Now there's so many shows. There's too many shows. There's 296 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,040 Speaker 1: no way we can have everything be good. I mean, 297 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,840 Speaker 1: there's just too much content out there. And everybody's chasing 298 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 1: the same actors. Everybody's chasing the same writers, right and 299 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 1: for you back then, Perski and these famous writers, I'm 300 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: imagining that the television landscape was very finite back then. 301 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: So finding good writers, there weren't a. 302 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 4: Lot of them, were there, right, right, No, they weren't. No, 303 00:14:51,120 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 4: they were pretty stellar. The show was that good because 304 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 4: they were so good, you know, as you Danny Arnold 305 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: later created Barney Miller, which is fantastic show. Sure, and 306 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 4: Billy went on to do Kate n Ally and a 307 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 4: whole lot of very good women's shows. He got to 308 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 4: become a real guru for women's shows. They were very 309 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,040 Speaker 4: gifted people. And the thing is is they would rewrite everything. 310 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 4: You know, We'd get a script and it would be 311 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:19,160 Speaker 4: kind of so so, but it had a good premise, 312 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 4: and they'd rewrite the hell out of it and bring 313 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 4: it back to the table and it was fantastic. 314 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:24,920 Speaker 3: And then the person. 315 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:26,600 Speaker 4: Whose name was on it would win an Emmy for it, 316 00:15:27,040 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 4: and then somebody like you would call and say, is 317 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 4: this the same Joe blow that you had because his 318 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 4: script is not very good, but our guys had completely 319 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 4: redone it. 320 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:45,200 Speaker 1: Actress and activist Marlo Thomas Her push for equal rights 321 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:49,200 Speaker 1: was part of the larger conversation about gender equality in 322 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 1: the seventies. Feminism was also a heated topic in my 323 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,840 Speaker 1: twenty twelve conversation with author Erica Jong and her daughter 324 00:15:58,080 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: Molli jang Fast. 325 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 5: I think that women who are fourteen fifteen are in 326 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:07,960 Speaker 5: the most difficult position they have ever been in modern society. 327 00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: What do you think about that? 328 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 4: I mean, I agree, I think there's a lot of sexuality. 329 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: I think it's not explained to young girls in. 330 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:17,160 Speaker 5: A way very confusing, Molly. 331 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 4: But I think that's a legacy of the feminist movement. 332 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 5: I mean, we said we want not a legacy of 333 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,400 Speaker 5: the feminist movement. It is a legacy, and here I 334 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 5: really feel fierce. It is the legacy of a distortion 335 00:16:29,920 --> 00:16:32,560 Speaker 5: of women's desire for equal rights. 336 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,440 Speaker 3: Equal rights are not platforms shoes. 337 00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,160 Speaker 5: You can't and naked clothes equal rights. 338 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 4: But you can't blow up an ad Am bomb and 339 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 4: then choose how it's going to go. 340 00:16:43,440 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: Here more of my conversation with Erica Jong and Mali 341 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,760 Speaker 1: Jang Fast and Here's the Thing dot Org. After the break, 342 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 1: marlow Thomas explains why she went to New York to 343 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 1: study acting with Lee Strasberg after her success on TV. 344 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,200 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing. 345 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: As executive producer and star of That Girl, Marlowe Thomas 346 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 1: worked closely with the writers to make her character Anne 347 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: Marie more believable. 348 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a regular company. You know. 349 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:31,919 Speaker 4: You sit around and say, let's do an arc where 350 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 4: she's looking for a job and she gets these four jobs. 351 00:17:35,280 --> 00:17:37,439 Speaker 4: Or let's do an arc where her father wants her 352 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 4: to move back home, you know, and so you talk 353 00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,399 Speaker 4: about the arc, and then we'd read to have a 354 00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,760 Speaker 4: table read, and everybody would give their comments. There were 355 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,520 Speaker 4: very few times where, you know, there were any huge debates. 356 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 4: You know, I've always felt about story that what's right 357 00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 4: always wins. 358 00:17:58,760 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 3: You know. 359 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 4: The first year was a little difficult because I was 360 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 4: the only girl on the staff. You know, they staffed 361 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 4: the show. I didn't staff the show. I didn't know 362 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 4: any writers. 363 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:08,560 Speaker 3: I was a kid. How would I know writers. 364 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 4: So they staffed the show with a lot of terrific 365 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:14,199 Speaker 4: guy writers, in which I would say, I don't think 366 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,480 Speaker 4: a girl would say that to her father, or I 367 00:18:17,480 --> 00:18:19,199 Speaker 4: don't know that's the way a girl would end an 368 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 4: argument with her boyfriend. So we'd have these debates. So 369 00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:25,400 Speaker 4: finally Danny Arnold, who was one of the smartest guys 370 00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:27,199 Speaker 4: in the world, said, you know what we need. We 371 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,000 Speaker 4: need a female story editor. You can't be the only 372 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 4: girl in the room. And so the female story editor 373 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 4: came on and that was heaven because she was able 374 00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:41,359 Speaker 4: from her expertise and her ability to write, to say, 375 00:18:41,440 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 4: you know, let's go this way. The only real debate 376 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,000 Speaker 4: we ever had was they wanted to be a wedding. 377 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 3: For the last show. 378 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 4: Clara al wanted a wedding. ABC wanted a wedding. The 379 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,399 Speaker 4: producers wanted a wedding, and I said, we can't do 380 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:56,919 Speaker 4: a wedding. We can't end the show with a wedding. 381 00:18:57,560 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 4: If we end the show with a wedding, this audience, 382 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 4: which has followed this character for five years, she's independent, 383 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,360 Speaker 4: she doesn't want to get married, she's not sure she 384 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,160 Speaker 4: wants to get married. She wants a career. We've had 385 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,679 Speaker 4: so many of those conversations. To have a wedding is 386 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,640 Speaker 4: to betray them. I think we're saying that's the only 387 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,280 Speaker 4: happy ending, and lots of shows end with weddings. I 388 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:24,679 Speaker 4: don't want this show to end with a wedding. And 389 00:19:24,760 --> 00:19:27,479 Speaker 4: that was a problem. That was the only one. And 390 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,480 Speaker 4: the interesting thing is, I mean, obviously they let me 391 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,280 Speaker 4: have it that way, and then a couple years later 392 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:35,679 Speaker 4: Billy and Sambo said to me that was such a 393 00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:38,040 Speaker 4: right idea because it had gone into syndication. 394 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 3: That way, the show is over. 395 00:19:40,560 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 4: Once you see the show run through and you see 396 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 4: the wedding, then you know how the story ends. But 397 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 4: I would have felt it would have been a wrong 398 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,240 Speaker 4: message to say this is the only happy ending. And Alec, 399 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 4: I'll tell you the mail that poured in about that. 400 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:58,879 Speaker 4: Thank you, thank you Marlon for not coming out, thank you, 401 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 4: thank you for ending with a wedding. I mean, they 402 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,479 Speaker 4: really they wanted to see it. They've been hanging on 403 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 4: to the fact that this is the one single girl 404 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 4: on television. Had never been a single girl before. There's 405 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,359 Speaker 4: this one single girl and she doesn't get married at 406 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 4: the end. And I always had a thing growing up, 407 00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 4: which is why I did Free to Be You and Me. 408 00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,520 Speaker 4: That every princess married the prince. That was the only 409 00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:25,120 Speaker 4: happy ending of a fairy tale. And I hope your children, 410 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 4: in fact, I'm going to send you Free to Be 411 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 4: this week. Your children should listen to Free to Be 412 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,240 Speaker 4: You and Me, because there is no one happy ending. 413 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 4: Your boys and your girls will have the happy ending 414 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 4: that they create for themselves, not one that goes along 415 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:45,200 Speaker 4: with what every other boy and every other girl has done. 416 00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: So when the show is over, when did you go 417 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: to the actors studio after that? Because you were in 418 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 1: Hollywood doing the show. So when the show's of a 419 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:53,920 Speaker 1: you moved to New York. 420 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 4: Right, Well, they wanted us to do two more years, 421 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,159 Speaker 4: and they wanted me and Chatty to get married. I 422 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:00,960 Speaker 4: didn't want to get married, but they said, well then 423 00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:03,280 Speaker 4: just two two more years because they really needed that girl. 424 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 4: I mean, there weren't a lot of hits on ABC, 425 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,879 Speaker 4: as you remember, And I said, I just can't. I 426 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 4: was a girl when we started. I'm a woman now. 427 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:12,920 Speaker 4: I can't be the same little girl running around trying 428 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 4: to get a job. I mean it's I'm too old now, 429 00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 4: you know, I'm thirty one, decided to move on and 430 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,200 Speaker 4: I got a script. It was called Crackers. It was 431 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:24,199 Speaker 4: about a woman who was a drunk, and it was 432 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 4: a very touching story. And I read it and I thought, 433 00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:31,280 Speaker 4: I don't know how to do this. Everything I had 434 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 4: done had been in this comedic vein Barefoot in the Park, 435 00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 4: and all the stuff i'd done, I mean, even Glass 436 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,719 Speaker 4: Menagerie didn't have that kind of character that you had to, 437 00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,359 Speaker 4: you know, to play a good drunk and to have 438 00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,960 Speaker 4: come out of that, and all the would come from 439 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:48,840 Speaker 4: the withdrawal to. 440 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:50,919 Speaker 1: Ring yourself out. You got to ring yourself out there. 441 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 3: I didn't know how to do it. 442 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 4: So I called Ellen Berson, who I had met a 443 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 4: few times. So she said, you got to go to 444 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 4: Lee Strasford. So I called him. He said he'd meet 445 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 4: me at FU to New York. And he said to me, 446 00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 4: you're a big star. You got a lot of awards. 447 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 4: What do you want to come to class for. I said, 448 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 4: because I only know how to do what I know 449 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,359 Speaker 4: how to do, and I've gotten by on a lot 450 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 4: of charm and comedy instinct. He said, don't look at 451 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 4: gift horse in the mouth, my dear, I said, I'm 452 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 4: not complaining. I'm just saying that's what I got. That's 453 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 4: my whole bag. So he said okay, And after that 454 00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 4: I started doing work. I mean, I want an Emmy 455 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 4: as Best Dramatic Actress playing a schizophrenic. After that that 456 00:22:37,359 --> 00:22:40,639 Speaker 4: Lee Grant cast me in it was called Nobody's Child, 457 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 4: and I don't I'm not saying this to toot my 458 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:46,080 Speaker 4: own horn, but I'm saying this to prove what acting 459 00:22:46,119 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 4: classes do for you. I was up against Vanessa Redgrave, 460 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 4: Catherine Hepburn, Jenna Rollins, and Mayor Winningham and I won 461 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:59,040 Speaker 4: that Emmy. And I would not have won that had 462 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 4: I not stop my career and worked on my work 463 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,760 Speaker 4: for three years. And I say often to people, sometimes 464 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 4: your career gets in the way. 465 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,120 Speaker 3: Of your work. You've got to stop and do your 466 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 3: work and figure out what it is you want. 467 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:14,920 Speaker 1: I've been there. 468 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 4: When I quit that girl, my father said to me, 469 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 4: you have to be crazy. You are the heir apparent 470 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 4: to Lucille Ball. I said, Daddy, I know that's a 471 00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 4: great compliment, but I don't want to be Lucille Ball. 472 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 4: I respect Lucille Ball. She's a genius. That's just not 473 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 4: where I'm headed. I want to be a lot of 474 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,240 Speaker 4: other people. 475 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:39,480 Speaker 1: Now now free to be you and me. How did 476 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:39,920 Speaker 1: that start? 477 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 3: It really happened because of my niece. 478 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:44,800 Speaker 4: As you know, and as you can hear from what 479 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 4: I'm saying, I was born a feminist. 480 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:48,119 Speaker 3: I mean I really was. 481 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:50,720 Speaker 4: My father used to call me misindependence. As a child, 482 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:53,239 Speaker 4: I always had an idea of what I wanted to do, 483 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 4: and I wanted to do a single girl on television. 484 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 4: I gave feminine mystique to the head of the network. 485 00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:02,600 Speaker 4: I was obviously always going in that to and when 486 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 4: I was doing that girl, I got a lot of 487 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,879 Speaker 4: male from young women that was shocking. I get a 488 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 4: letter from a sixteen year old girl who said, I'm pregnant. 489 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 4: I can't tell my father. Where can I go? I'm 490 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,239 Speaker 4: twenty two years old and I have two children and 491 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,560 Speaker 4: my husband beats me up. Where could I go? So 492 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,720 Speaker 4: I said to my secretaries we called them at the time, 493 00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 4: I had two of them. I said, I don't know 494 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,520 Speaker 4: where the hell is somebody going in Duluth if they're pregnant. 495 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 4: Where does somebody go in Salt Lake City if they're 496 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,920 Speaker 4: being beaten up? As I'd looked around and we looked around. 497 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 4: There wasn't any place. There were no legal advisors. There's 498 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:41,280 Speaker 4: no place for a woman or a girl to go 499 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,160 Speaker 4: for safety or counsel or anything which politicized me. That's 500 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 4: how I met Gloria Steinem and all these women and 501 00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: created the misfoundation for women. All that happened because of 502 00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 4: the male I got, because there was no place for 503 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 4: women to go. But then my sister had a baby, 504 00:24:58,280 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 4: the first grandchild in our family, and she was about 505 00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 4: four and a half or so, and I was reading 506 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 4: the books in her bedroom and they were all the 507 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 4: thing about the boys do this, and the girls do that, 508 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 4: and the Princess Mary is the prince at the end 509 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:14,040 Speaker 4: of the thing. And I said to my sister, this 510 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 4: is such rubbish. It took us thirty years to get 511 00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,679 Speaker 4: over this. You got to get her something else. So 512 00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 4: I went to the bookstore to find something else, and 513 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:23,800 Speaker 4: there wasn't anything. So I decided to do one of 514 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:25,720 Speaker 4: my own. So I created Free to Be You and 515 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 4: Me for her. I really had no intention of becoming 516 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 4: a big franchise. I just wanted to do something that 517 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 4: would have stories for boys and girls that said they 518 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 4: could be anything. They wanted to be that it'd be 519 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,159 Speaker 4: non racist and non sexist, and so I got together 520 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 4: with friends like Schelle Silverstein and Herb Gardner and Kleeband 521 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,639 Speaker 4: who had done the music and lyrics for a chorus line, 522 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 4: and Patty Chayevsky who was a friend of Herbie's, and 523 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,919 Speaker 4: a bunch of people. We sat around and said, I said, okay, 524 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,320 Speaker 4: let's rewrite our childhood. What would you have like to 525 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 4: have heard when you were a kid. And Herb Gardner said, 526 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,440 Speaker 4: I would have liked to have heard that it was 527 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 4: okay for a boy to cry and that it wasn't sissy. 528 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 4: And Carol Hall wrote that wonderful song It's all Right 529 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 4: to Cry, which has become a classic, and we got 530 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,680 Speaker 4: Rosie Grier to sing it, which was great. And then 531 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,960 Speaker 4: I and then I said, I want there to be 532 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 4: a story where the princess does not marry the prince 533 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:26,440 Speaker 4: at the end and goes on to her own life, 534 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,679 Speaker 4: and she's not a blonde, she's a brunette like me 535 00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:33,119 Speaker 4: with olive skin. We did that one. We did Atalanta 536 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:35,680 Speaker 4: where she runs in the race and chooses her own life. 537 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 4: So we rewrote all the things and the company was 538 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 4: called Bill Records at the. 539 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 3: Time, you know, I was a big shot. 540 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:45,359 Speaker 4: And so they made the record and Alan al directed 541 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,240 Speaker 4: the written pieces, got Mel Brooks to play one of 542 00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,880 Speaker 4: the babies with me. That the two Babies who don't 543 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 4: Know Who's a boy and Who's a Girl? And Mel 544 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 4: and Carl Reiner wrote it. 545 00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:55,680 Speaker 3: It was hilariously funny. 546 00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,760 Speaker 4: We did the whole thing and he said, you know, 547 00:26:57,840 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 4: you're not going to sell more than fifteen thousand. 548 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 3: I said, that's okay. 549 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 4: We're not doing this for the money. We want to 550 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:06,640 Speaker 4: change the world, one five year old at a time. Well, 551 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:08,760 Speaker 4: it went gold and it went platinum, and then we 552 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:10,760 Speaker 4: did the book and it was number one on the 553 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 4: best seller list. So we did the special one on 554 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 4: Emmy and a Peabody. I mean, it's just because there's 555 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 4: been nothing like it. And just last week it was 556 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 4: inducted into the Library of Congress with albums, along with 557 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,080 Speaker 4: Janet Jackson, Kermit the Frog, and Thomas Edison, of all people. 558 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:32,159 Speaker 4: So when an idea is right, and it wasn't, you know, 559 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,320 Speaker 4: I didn't write the pieces. I conceived the idea and 560 00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 4: assigned the pieces. But I'm not that kind of writer. 561 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 4: I couldn't write a song. But you know, Alec, I'm 562 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,560 Speaker 4: sure you feel this in your work. If something comes 563 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 4: organically from you, as that girl did, as Free to 564 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 4: Be did, it's something you really believe in, you want 565 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,679 Speaker 4: to do. It does touch other people, you know. It 566 00:27:56,760 --> 00:27:59,719 Speaker 4: isn't like, oh, I think it would be really commercial. 567 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,760 Speaker 4: If I did a show about this, that's probably not 568 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 4: going to be successful. But if it comes out of 569 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 4: your own desire to right or wrong, or change the world, 570 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 4: or express this thing that's so on fire inside of you, 571 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,280 Speaker 4: that has a very good chance, I believe of being successful. 572 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: Actress and activist Marlo Thomas. This is It's all Right 573 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,040 Speaker 1: to Cry, sung by Rosie Greer from Free to Be, 574 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 1: You and Me. That's right, Rosie Greer, the NFL defensive tackle. 575 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 6: It's alright to cry. Ry the sad out of of you. 576 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 6: It's all right cry. 577 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: It might make you feel better when we come back. Marlowe. 578 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,400 Speaker 1: Thomas talks about her forty year marriage to talk show 579 00:28:54,400 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: host Phil Donahue. If you're enjoying this conversation, tell a 580 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 1: friend and be sure to follow. Here's the thing on 581 00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 582 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 1: I'm Alec Baldwin and you were listening to Here's the Thing. 583 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 1: For much of the seventies, Marlowe Thomas was a proud 584 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: single woman with no interest in getting married, and then 585 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,480 Speaker 1: a guest appearance on a daytime talk show in nineteen 586 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: seventy seven changed everything. 587 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 4: I just never wanted to be married, you know, it 588 00:29:37,000 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 4: just wasn't for me. I had an idea of what 589 00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 4: I wanted to do. I wanted to go to London 590 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 4: and do a play. I wanted to be free to 591 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 4: take any opportunity that and I don't mean in a 592 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,480 Speaker 4: romantic way. I had a lot of fabulous boyfriends, but 593 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:56,240 Speaker 4: I just wanted to experience so much. And my husband 594 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 4: got married at twenty one, and he said to me, one, 595 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 4: how the hell did you have the guts not to 596 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 4: get married early? I said, because I'm a girl. I 597 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 4: knew damn well, if I got married, I'd be responsible 598 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 4: for the babies, for the house, for the husband, for 599 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,360 Speaker 4: the everything. I grew up with that I know. 600 00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 3: I'm of a. 601 00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 4: Lebanese family and an Italian family, and they're a lot 602 00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,440 Speaker 4: like the Irish, as you and Phil are. You know, 603 00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 4: the mother runs the roost. She takes care of the children, 604 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,800 Speaker 4: and she has a thousand of them. My father's one 605 00:30:26,800 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 4: of ten, my mother's one of five. My mother gave 606 00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 4: up her career and followed my father around the country 607 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 4: and really supported him in his career, and that was 608 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,360 Speaker 4: her choice. I looked at that choice and said, that's 609 00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 4: not for me. I wanted to be my father. I 610 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 4: wanted to be on stage. I used to see my 611 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 4: father in the Sands Hotel in Las Vegas and his 612 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,240 Speaker 4: eyes would be shining and he was having a ball, 613 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 4: and I'm so happy. 614 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:52,760 Speaker 3: And that was it. 615 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 4: I think I discovered what you say you're discovering now. 616 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 4: I discovered work made me happy, made me happy and 617 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 4: my husband. In the last about six years, I did 618 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,840 Speaker 4: a play off Broadway, in a play on Broadway. One 619 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,000 Speaker 4: was Elaine May on Broadway and one was Jojo Petro 620 00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:13,560 Speaker 4: off Broadway. And Phil said to me, you're so happy 621 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 4: when you do a play. As far as I've ben thurned, 622 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 4: you can do a play every year. I'm the happiest 623 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:22,120 Speaker 4: when I'm on stage. And so I made that decision. 624 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 4: I hadn't expected to meet Phil. It was beyond my control. 625 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,000 Speaker 4: It's like a gag. I mean, he walked in the 626 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,400 Speaker 4: green room and it was like a shampoo commercial. 627 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 3: I mean, his big blue eyes and. 628 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:39,880 Speaker 4: That shock of white hair, and I thought, oh my god. 629 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,480 Speaker 4: And I was dating like three men at the time. 630 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 4: Phil said the same thing. He said, I walked down 631 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:49,840 Speaker 4: the hall after her, and I thought, my god, she's 632 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 4: a bad thought. And then we flirted for an hour 633 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,520 Speaker 4: on his show. He asked me out the next night 634 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:58,560 Speaker 4: and that was it. 635 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:02,200 Speaker 1: But what changed, meaning you said in interviews that you 636 00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:04,760 Speaker 1: had a couple different types of boyfriends. You had the 637 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,479 Speaker 1: hunky boyfriend, you know, you had the leading man boyfriend. 638 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:09,880 Speaker 1: Then you had the smart, funny boyfriend to keep you interested. 639 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 3: Well, you're very right. 640 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 4: My comment was that I, you know, the the you know, 641 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,240 Speaker 4: the gorgeous guy, the hunk and everything. That guy was, 642 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:24,440 Speaker 4: you know, a sexy turn on. And the other guy, 643 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 4: he was so smart that he taught me things. I 644 00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:32,280 Speaker 4: was very attracted to men like that who kind of 645 00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:35,080 Speaker 4: you know, just taught me about business or taught me 646 00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 4: about life, who were just very smart, which the hunky 647 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,200 Speaker 4: guy didn't really have that right, And this was the 648 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 4: first time I met a man who had it all. 649 00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:48,360 Speaker 4: Phil was hunky and sexy and real smart, and it 650 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 4: just was. It was a great package. And so at 651 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 4: first the first thing that brings you together is the hunky, 652 00:32:54,560 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 4: sexy part. And then the more I got to know him, 653 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,080 Speaker 4: just so wise and he always does the right thing. 654 00:33:02,120 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 4: He always ends up with the right spot. And Phil 655 00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 4: moved his show, his show, his whole show, all the 656 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 4: producers and everything, to New York. I was living in LA. 657 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,600 Speaker 4: He was living in Chicago. I had a big production company. 658 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,000 Speaker 4: I had made twelve movies for television in a row. 659 00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 4: He had his own show, and he was raising four 660 00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 4: boys on his own. He was getting his boys through school. 661 00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,200 Speaker 4: His show every day at nine am. Our lives were insane, 662 00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 4: and I said to him, he said, he wanted me 663 00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:33,400 Speaker 4: to move to Chicago. And I said, look at this 664 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 4: point in my career, I really can't live in Chicago. 665 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 4: I could live in New York or LA. He said, 666 00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,040 Speaker 4: I can't live in LA. I'm not interested. He said, 667 00:33:42,040 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 4: no offense, but I'm not interested in interviewing actors. So 668 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,680 Speaker 4: we picked New York and we moved everything to New York, 669 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,920 Speaker 4: including his show. He said, let me just get my 670 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:53,240 Speaker 4: boys through high school, which was like another two three years. 671 00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 4: He got his boys whore. We bought an apartment, We 672 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,600 Speaker 4: got married, the boys, got through high school. He moved 673 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 4: his show and everything, and we made a life in 674 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,800 Speaker 4: New York, where neither of us lived. We bought an apartment, 675 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,080 Speaker 4: we bought a house in Connecticut. We invented a life. 676 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:13,680 Speaker 1: Now. Obviously, another enormous part of your family's legacy, your 677 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: Dad's legacy and your legacy, is Saint Jude's. Talk to 678 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 1: me about the genesis of that and why Memphis. 679 00:34:20,640 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 4: My father grew up very poor, an immigrant family. My 680 00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:27,279 Speaker 4: grandparents were from Lebanon. They had no money. They came 681 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:31,960 Speaker 4: here with all their belongings in cloth bags and arranged marriage. 682 00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:36,720 Speaker 4: Had ten babies, nine boys, and a girl without a doctor, 683 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,040 Speaker 4: hot water and her sister. So everybody in the neighborhood. 684 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:47,840 Speaker 4: They were everybody. They were Polish, Irish, Jewish, Chinese, Italian, Lebanese, whatever, 685 00:34:48,280 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 4: And they never went to a doctor, and they all 686 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,879 Speaker 4: had jobs on consignment. I mean, it was real, real 687 00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 4: dirt poor people. And my father had little friends who 688 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,640 Speaker 4: died of things like influenza and appendicia, this which are 689 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,759 Speaker 4: manageable situations, but they died because they never could see 690 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 4: a doctor. So he had a very first hand look 691 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,000 Speaker 4: at the inequity of health care in this country, and 692 00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,480 Speaker 4: that always was in his mind. And so when he 693 00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 4: made a promise to Saint Jude, show me a sign 694 00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:18,880 Speaker 4: that I can make it in my career, because he 695 00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:21,480 Speaker 4: was my father was terrified at being poor and not 696 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 4: being able to raise his children the way his father was. 697 00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,799 Speaker 4: So he was willing to give up show business if 698 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:29,520 Speaker 4: he knew what got assign you to something else. Anyway, 699 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 4: he got a sign, and he continued on his way, 700 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,880 Speaker 4: and when he got very successful and quite wealthy, he 701 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,760 Speaker 4: decided it was time to pay back, and he wanted 702 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 4: to build a hospital for very ill children where nobody 703 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,839 Speaker 4: would be turned away, not for race or religion, and 704 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 4: no one would pay for anything, not treatment, travel, housing, 705 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,600 Speaker 4: or food. And he picked the South because and this 706 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:58,759 Speaker 4: was a wonderful story. My father carried this little piece 707 00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:01,919 Speaker 4: of paper in his pocket for men years. He read 708 00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:05,040 Speaker 4: in the paper that a black boy eight years old 709 00:36:05,680 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 4: in Mississippi was hit by a car. A white guy 710 00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:12,680 Speaker 4: hit him on his bike. The white guy picked him 711 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:14,600 Speaker 4: up and tried to get him to a hospital, but 712 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:16,880 Speaker 4: no emergency room would take him because he was black. 713 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 3: And he died. 714 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,720 Speaker 4: So my father decided, I'm putting it in the South. 715 00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,759 Speaker 4: I want the kids from the South to be able 716 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,439 Speaker 4: to get here too, And so he did. 717 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 3: Interesting and it was the first solely integrated hospital in 718 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 3: the South. 719 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 4: And we have the largest program for sickle cell We 720 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 4: have eight hundred sickle cell patients and we have a black, white, Hispanic. 721 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:39,799 Speaker 3: They come from all over the world. We even have. 722 00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 4: Amish people, which so stunned me because here are these 723 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 4: people won't even have a zipper. But when it comes 724 00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,840 Speaker 4: to saving your kid, if your child to sick, god forbid, 725 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:53,360 Speaker 4: you'd sell your arm to get your kid. Well, these 726 00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,640 Speaker 4: parents come terrified. They're gonna have to sell their house, 727 00:36:56,680 --> 00:36:59,480 Speaker 4: that everything else. They don't have to sell anything. They 728 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:01,480 Speaker 4: just have to there. And we put them up in 729 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,000 Speaker 4: beautiful housing, which by the way, I do most of 730 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,840 Speaker 4: the decorating. We can put up four hundred families for years, 731 00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:08,960 Speaker 4: two years at a time. 732 00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 3: It's an incredible place. 733 00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: Well, let me just say this to you. I want 734 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: you to tell your husband that we'd love to have 735 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,520 Speaker 1: him on the show. I didn't want you together because 736 00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:17,840 Speaker 1: I feel like a show with Phil Donague. That's four 737 00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 1: segments we need to do four hours before down here 738 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,560 Speaker 1: because I respect him and I admire him, and he's 739 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,080 Speaker 1: got a lot to say. We'd love to have him 740 00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 1: on because I'm a huge fan of your husband's show. 741 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 1: Really tell him and what I love about your husband 742 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 1: was is that his political views, though they tilted in 743 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,600 Speaker 1: a certain way, they weren't partisan. Do you think that 744 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: you agree with that? 745 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,400 Speaker 4: Through most of his career, Yes, he got hit in 746 00:37:38,440 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 4: the head, got fired from MSNBC because he opposed the 747 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:45,799 Speaker 4: war in Iraq, and it was an interesting time for him. 748 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,480 Speaker 4: Here's a guy who'd been on the air for twenty 749 00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:51,239 Speaker 4: nine years in syndication and when I first met him, 750 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,440 Speaker 4: he said, I've got the best job in television. And 751 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:55,880 Speaker 4: I said why. He said, because I can say anything 752 00:37:55,920 --> 00:37:57,920 Speaker 4: I want to say. And if you don't want to 753 00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:01,400 Speaker 4: run it in Detroit, you don't have But I'm in 754 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:04,080 Speaker 4: two hundred and fifty cities, so don't run it. So 755 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 4: he wasn't used to any kind of censorship overview. He 756 00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:12,920 Speaker 4: just did what he wanted. He went on MSNBC and 757 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,399 Speaker 4: the war was ramping up against Iraq, so he put 758 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:20,480 Speaker 4: on fathers who had lost their sons, both from Israel 759 00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,239 Speaker 4: and Palestine to talk about what war really does. And 760 00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:28,080 Speaker 4: these are men who were opposite each other in their beliefs, 761 00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,239 Speaker 4: but they had both lost sons in these wars. And 762 00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:34,040 Speaker 4: he had on all the people that were against the war, 763 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 4: the Colin Powells and all the people, and they were 764 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:41,239 Speaker 4: all the generals who were against the war. And NBC 765 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,839 Speaker 4: told his producer, you've got to get filled to get 766 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 4: off the war thing. You know, NBC is run by 767 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 4: General Electric. General Electric makes things that go boom. So 768 00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 4: he didn't stop. He felt it was not only he 769 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,640 Speaker 4: wasn't being defiant, he was being a journalist, was saying, 770 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 4: he was showing the other side of this, and all 771 00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,839 Speaker 4: the other shows everywhere actually were for the war. 772 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 1: Yeah. I just want to say this to you, and 773 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,320 Speaker 1: that is you probably should go back on TV because 774 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: you'd still be the funniest, most sophisticated, gorgeous woman on TV. 775 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:17,799 Speaker 3: Thank you. 776 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:21,160 Speaker 1: That line from Lucy to you and Mary Tyler Moore 777 00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,239 Speaker 1: hovering around the same time onto Murphy Brown, those great, 778 00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,160 Speaker 1: great leading ladies of network television. God, I would love 779 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:28,520 Speaker 1: to work with you one day. What enjoy that. 780 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,000 Speaker 3: Thank you. We'll give me a call, Ale anytime. 781 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,759 Speaker 1: We will call you. We book. This was fun, love you, 782 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 1: thank you, my very best to you, and thank you. 783 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 784 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:42,360 Speaker 1: My thanks to Marlow Thomas. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're 785 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:47,040 Speaker 1: listening to Here's the Thing from iHeart Radio. We're produced 786 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:52,200 Speaker 1: by Kathleen Russo, Carrie Donahue and Zach McNeice. Our engineer 787 00:39:52,280 --> 00:40:14,520 Speaker 1: is Frank Imperial. Thanks for listening.