Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We returned to you with a classic
Speaker 1: episode this evening, and this one is a banger, stem
Speaker 1: to stir. When you hear the word pyramids, you probably
Speaker 1: think of Egypt, but there's much much more to the story. Yeah,
Speaker 1: turns out there's some hiding in China.
Speaker 2: Well, this is astounding. And I remember when we first
Speaker 2: started picking this this idea up, and we were you
Speaker 2: remember being we were being sent things about this. Then
Speaker 2: I think, initially, well, I don't want to speak for you, Ben,
Speaker 2: but initially I was like, eh, whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: that can't be real. Let me check it out. And
Speaker 2: then stuff gets weird in this one because I think
Speaker 2: it has to do with the way we look at
Speaker 2: certain places in China, certain slightly more rural areas in
Speaker 2: China that do appear to have other stuff going on
Speaker 2: beneath them, kind of the way we think about parts
Speaker 2: of rainforests, right, where there's hidden things beneath the folio.
Speaker 1: Right. And this episode comes out a little bit before
Speaker 1: light ar becomes super widespread and affordable. So when you
Speaker 1: tune in here, you're going to learn about light ar,
Speaker 1: You're going to learn about the speculation around why these
Speaker 1: pyramids were not maintained and did not become big tourist spots.
Speaker 1: Because those who control history control the present, and those
Speaker 1: who control the present control the future. Let's jump right in.
Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is
Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know.
Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt.
Speaker 1: They called me Ben. We are joined with our super preducer,
Speaker 1: Paul the Ace decond. Most importantly, you are you. You
Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want
Speaker 1: you to know we're going into. I was thinking about
Speaker 1: this off airmat. We're going into a bit of a
Speaker 1: pyramid scheme today, but the not the way we ordinarily do.
Speaker 2: Oh god, okay, yes we are. We're going into an
Speaker 2: actual pyramid scheme, where a scheme of pyramids, a scheme
Speaker 2: about a pyramid.
Speaker 1: Several schemes in fact.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in an earlier episode, you and I explored the
Speaker 1: stories of non Egyptian pyramids. Do you remember that one?
Speaker 2: Yeah? They were all over the world, places where you
Speaker 2: probably wouldn't expect to find pyramids.
Speaker 1: Sure, even if you are a seasoned archaeologist. Right, It's
Speaker 1: true that while most people, at least here in the
Speaker 1: West associate pyramids with the Valley of Kings in ancient Egypt,
Speaker 1: you know, the huge Pyramid of Giza and stuff, the
Speaker 1: world has tons of other smaller similar structures.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you also are you associate the pyramid with a
Speaker 2: rigid structure in a way built out of some sort
Speaker 2: of stone or block, right where it's highly defined. But
Speaker 2: then you get other things like cigarettes that you find
Speaker 2: throughout the world, especially in places like Central and South America.
Speaker 2: You got mounds in North America. You can find those
Speaker 2: all over the place. Even here in Georgia you can
Speaker 2: find some different kinds of mounds. You can find them
Speaker 2: in Europe too.
Speaker 1: Yeah. In fact, structures similar to pyramids have been found
Speaker 1: not just in Europe, not just in Mesoamerica, in North America,
Speaker 1: but in Indonesia, Peru, India, the Roman Empire, Sudan and
Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Nubia, Greece, Nigeria, all these other places
Speaker 1: that you would not normally expect to be home to pyramids.
Speaker 1: In fact, we could likely say, if there's a land
Speaker 1: mass that you think does not have pyramids on it,
Speaker 1: you're probably wrong, unless we're talking about Antarctica, which is
Speaker 1: a different episode. We've read the emails, we will get
Speaker 1: to it.
Speaker 2: I wonder this is not something that I have researched,
Speaker 2: and I don't know if you have either, But pyramids
Speaker 2: on islands, I wonder how common that is because it
Speaker 2: seems like it would be difficult to find just the
Speaker 2: raw materials to make a pyramid.
Speaker 1: True, true? And would those be more of the mound
Speaker 1: type things, given the difficulties of creating large works of
Speaker 1: stone in most islands other than the Rapanui in Easter Island, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was an enormous undertaking. They also apparently the people
Speaker 1: destroyed their economy in pursuit of these. Yeah. Such a
Speaker 1: fascinating tragic story. But it's a good point, Matt. The
Speaker 1: glib answer to that question, where the glib deflection rather is, well,
Speaker 1: isn't a continent just a large island? Oh? We don't
Speaker 1: think that flies, folks. We think there is a size
Speaker 1: limit to what should be termed an island.
Speaker 2: Well, And as we're going to find out, there are
Speaker 2: many ways to build a pyramid like structure, and one
Speaker 2: of them is just to take the earth that exists
Speaker 2: there and basically press it as hard as you can
Speaker 2: to create a.
Speaker 1: Structure, and quite a few pyramids are exactly that. They
Speaker 1: are pressed rammed earth. And for a long time, there
Speaker 1: were tons of legends about pyramids in one of the
Speaker 1: most mysterious parts of the world, at least to early Westerners,
Speaker 1: that is China. This vast continent so far to the east,
Speaker 1: so distant that legend and fact were treated equally because
Speaker 1: no one could prove one or the other.
Speaker 2: And they certainly intermingle, and it was difficult to figure
Speaker 2: out what's what.
Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah, well.
Speaker 2: I mean there were legends that China had these ancient,
Speaker 2: ancient pyramids that were around long before any other structure,
Speaker 2: that were perhaps hidden for some reason.
Speaker 1: Right hidden from the rest of the world. And this
Speaker 1: idea makes sense when we look at the historical context
Speaker 1: of trade restrictions and travel restrictions in China for Westerners,
Speaker 1: you know, like the secret of the silkworm or silk manufacturing.
Speaker 1: It seemed very reasonable to people that, of course this
Speaker 1: civilization would have more secrets, you know, that's just what
Speaker 1: they do, apparently.
Speaker 2: And the ancient secrets are some of the most fascinating,
Speaker 2: right be sure, are the ones that especially gosh ancient
Speaker 2: hidden secrets. That's just like perfect. It's the perfect thing
Speaker 2: for any mystery novel, for any anyone who's even inclined
Speaker 2: to want to ex flore those regions of their own mind.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. And I know when we say ancient hidden secrets,
Speaker 1: many people may think, well, what are you guys going
Speaker 1: to go full history channel on me here? Not really,
Speaker 1: but we do have to point out that there are
Speaker 1: so many real examples of ancient hidden secrets, often tied
Speaker 1: to religions, to history religions, right, and so it is
Speaker 1: completely reasonable if we're a person who's living in these
Speaker 1: ages past, it's completely reasonable for us to assume that
Speaker 1: this legend of pyramids is true. However, things change here,
Speaker 1: and we have to start with the folklore. So here
Speaker 1: are the facts. After these legends have been established, and
Speaker 1: they are pretty well insulated into the world of Western
Speaker 1: folklore as kind of footnotes. There's not a ton of
Speaker 1: exploration or literature about them. Things change when a modern
Speaker 1: sighting occurs. In nineteen twelve, there's a trader and a
Speaker 1: travel agent by the name of Fred Meyer Schroeder who
Speaker 1: is the first modern Westerner to record a sighting of
Speaker 1: a pyramid and the shan Shi province of the country
Speaker 1: of China. So what happens. It's nineteen twelve, which means
Speaker 1: he's probably not flying right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got one of those hats you know that
Speaker 2: you find in old movies, the large explorer.
Speaker 1: Hats the plinth.
Speaker 3: Ha.
Speaker 2: Yeah, not necessarily. But he's walking. He's got a guide
Speaker 2: with him who happened to be a Buddhist monk. And
Speaker 2: then he sees way off in the distance. He's not
Speaker 2: really sure what it is, but he kind of squints
Speaker 2: a little bit maybe and he thinks, oh, that's a pyramid,
Speaker 2: and there are all these other little structures around it.
Speaker 2: WHOA what am I looking at here?
Speaker 1: And we have a quote, Yes, he says, let's see,
Speaker 1: he's an old timey American. Yeah, it was even more
Speaker 1: on Cannae than if we had found it in the wilderness.
Speaker 1: About those pyramids well to some extent exposed to the
Speaker 1: eyes of the world, but still totally unknown in the
Speaker 1: western world.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes so. And just the remarkable thing, at least
Speaker 2: in his eyes, with this discovery is that they're just
Speaker 2: kind of sitting there. And if you happen to be
Speaker 2: walking along where he was walking along, or maybe even
Speaker 2: flying a plane in that area. Well, yeah, or you know,
Speaker 2: in the air of for some reason, in a blimp.
Speaker 1: Even, or a hot air balloon, a hot.
Speaker 2: Air balloon, you're going to see this thing and it's
Speaker 2: just sitting there and it would be very difficult to
Speaker 2: cover up the fact that it existed.
Speaker 1: Right, And by comparison, there are people in the modern
Speaker 1: day who experience a similar fascination when they attempt to
Speaker 1: observe spy satellites. Oh yeah, right, because they're publicly unacknowledged.
Speaker 1: No one's supposed to know about them, but you can't
Speaker 1: really hide them. They still blink, or you couldn't for
Speaker 1: a while, right, So it's just in verse as far
Speaker 1: as elevation and site.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sightline.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not one to one, but it's still it's
Speaker 1: it's a pretty I don't know, it's somewhere between hilarious
Speaker 1: and fascinating. But it's important to note here that fred
Speaker 1: Meyer Schroeder is an actual person. So in a lot
Speaker 1: of these early explorer stories and tales like the idea
Speaker 1: of an ancient civilization hidden in the Grand Canyon, what
Speaker 1: we find is that the person who is our reporter,
Speaker 1: our eyewitness for this stuff often turns out to be
Speaker 1: the pseudonym for a unscrupulous journalist or an editor who
Speaker 1: wants to get people excited. However, there's a great book
Speaker 1: you can read. There's an Okay book you can read
Speaker 1: called Guns, Gold and Caravans. The Extraordinary Life and Times
Speaker 1: of Fred Meyer Schroeder. It's back in.
Speaker 2: Was it written by him.
Speaker 1: No, it's written by Robert one Easton, Okay. And Robert
Speaker 1: Easton writes this biography, which is based on primary sources
Speaker 1: in first person, Oh, which is I would say that
Speaker 1: put me off a bit about it. Yeah, just just
Speaker 1: reading a first person biography is is a little weird
Speaker 1: to me. But it does go through the life and
Speaker 1: times of this guy. So we do know that he
Speaker 1: is real. We do know that in nineteen twelve he
Speaker 1: saw something.
Speaker 2: Maybe it was just pyramid, like you know, maybe it
Speaker 2: was a structure that appeared to be a pyramid from
Speaker 2: that distance from his vantage point.
Speaker 1: Right. So one of the initial questions some of the
Speaker 1: more skeptical of us in the crowd may be asking,
Speaker 1: is what's the difference between what looks like a pyramid
Speaker 1: in in a close to mid distance and a mountain.
Speaker 1: You know, given the right terrain, a mountain could look
Speaker 1: pyramid esque, just a hill maybe yeah, or just a hill.
Speaker 1: What's the difference.
Speaker 2: Be that?
Speaker 1: As it may, Schroeder goes on to have many adventures,
Speaker 1: and our story leaves him. It jumps to nineteen forty five.
Speaker 1: There's a US Air pilot named James Gosman on the
Speaker 1: return leg of a supply run from China to India.
Speaker 1: And during this run, just to imagine the cartography here,
Speaker 1: during this flight, they leave from a position China to
Speaker 1: supply arms or food other various sunderies to a spot
Speaker 1: in India, and it's a round trip thing, so they
Speaker 1: fly back to China. This can be dangerous because there's
Speaker 1: not a huge margin of error for the fuel tank.
Speaker 1: They have to go over something called the Burma bump,
Speaker 1: which may be familiar to people who have looked into
Speaker 1: this era of time in this part of the world.
Speaker 1: So the Burma bumps the problem. The guy's flying back
Speaker 1: to China after dropping off these supplies, and due to
Speaker 1: engine trouble, he has to lower his altitude, so he
Speaker 1: was much lower than he would have normally at this
Speaker 1: point in the trip and that's when things get kind
Speaker 1: of weird.
Speaker 2: Yeah. He again, very similarly, he sees what he believes
Speaker 2: to be a pyramid.
Speaker 1: And this is no ordinary pyramid to him. This thing
Speaker 1: is huge. He says, it's got to be bigger than
Speaker 1: the pyramids in Egypt, and it must be built of
Speaker 1: some sparkling white marble or polished stone. And why does
Speaker 1: it have why is that jewels encrusting the capstone? What
Speaker 1: the hell is going on? But of course he's still
Speaker 1: got a land his plane, so he makes a note
Speaker 1: of it. He flies back over and he is convinced.
Speaker 1: We do have to say, in his defense here or
Speaker 1: in defense of his account, he is a professional pilot. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so he is familiar with how things appear from the air.
Speaker 1: He gets the concept of perspective and the various factors
Speaker 1: that could influence his vision because he has to rely
Speaker 1: on this vision. It's nineteen forty five. He has to
Speaker 1: rely on this vision in order to stay alive in
Speaker 1: the air. So he is one of the most reliable
Speaker 1: witnesses possible at this point. And he's not the only
Speaker 1: person who sees this.
Speaker 2: No, So that was nineteen forty five when James Gosman
Speaker 2: saw it. Then two years later, March twenty eighth, nineteen
Speaker 2: forty seven, Colonel Maurice Sheehan, he's the Far Eastern director
Speaker 2: of the trans World Airline. He recounted a sighting that
Speaker 2: ended up in the New York Times. Actually his recounting,
Speaker 2: and we have another.
Speaker 1: Quote, would you do the honest?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I flew around a mountain, and then we came
Speaker 2: to a valley. Directly below us was a gigantic white pyramid.
Speaker 2: It looked as if it were from a fairy tale.
Speaker 2: The pyramid was draped and shimmering white. It could have
Speaker 2: been metal or some other form of stone. It was
Speaker 2: white on all sides. What was most curious about it
Speaker 2: was its capstone, a large piece of precious gem like material.
Speaker 2: I was deeply moved by the colossal size of the thing.
Speaker 1: And a few days after this, there's a photo that emerges.
Speaker 1: It's printed in the New York Sunday News. This photo
Speaker 1: is allegedly of the pyramid that they are describing, and
Speaker 1: Matt we you'd pulled up the original photograph. There it
Speaker 1: does it looks like a man made mound. It does, certainly,
Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily match the description that Sheihan and Gosman
Speaker 1: are putting on it, probably due to the quality of
Speaker 1: the photograph and the fact that it's in black and white,
Speaker 1: so you don't see the same color values.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's high contrast black and white. The angle that
Speaker 2: it's at you can see the shadow from the sun
Speaker 2: casting the pyramid shape, so you can tell that it
Speaker 2: is actually pyramid shaped. There's not much around it. It
Speaker 2: looks like there may be some structures of some sort
Speaker 2: on one of the sides. Yeah, but yeah, it's I mean,
Speaker 2: it definitely is pyramid shapes.
Speaker 1: So this and similar stories they draw a great public
Speaker 1: interest and the game of telephone begins. So now when
Speaker 1: you read about these encounters on many sites, what you'll
Speaker 1: see is that the quote from Sheehan is attributed to
Speaker 1: Gosman as well as the photo. That doesn't discredit what
Speaker 1: they're saying, But it is important for us to note
Speaker 1: that people started mudding things up pretty early on in
Speaker 1: this story. So for many people, even in twenty eighteen,
Speaker 1: that was the first time the West was aware of
Speaker 1: these structures. That's what most people believe. That's what many
Speaker 1: of us believe. It started in the nineteen forties. What's
Speaker 1: happening now we'll shed some light on this. After a
Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, we're back and we're going back
Speaker 1: in time. We're going to the first Western mention of
Speaker 1: Chinese pyramids, which is not in nineteen forty seven.
Speaker 2: No, it goes back to sixteen sixty seven when Jesuit
Speaker 2: Athanasius Kersher writes about them in his book China Monumentous Illustrata.
Speaker 2: And you can actually find this on archive dot org
Speaker 2: if you choose to go down that rabbit hole. It
Speaker 2: is really interesting looking. You can flip through some of
Speaker 2: the pages and look at it. It's got some great
Speaker 2: maps in there of China. It's got lots of writing
Speaker 2: that I cannot read. It's a cool manuscripture book. It's
Speaker 2: very very cool. Oh wow, really great illustrations in here.
Speaker 1: And in this book he conducts more of a survey
Speaker 1: of these various structures. Yeah, and as you said, doesn't
Speaker 1: spend an inordinate amount of time on any particular one,
Speaker 1: but he does mention them again sixteen sixty seven. And
Speaker 1: if we jump back to the days of Gosman and
Speaker 1: Sheihan and the various things being published in newspapers about
Speaker 1: these pyramids, we find that bless their hearts, as they
Speaker 1: say in the South, and outfit named the Science Newsletter
Speaker 1: tried to dispel some of what they saw is exaggeration.
Speaker 1: This publication exists today, by the way, they are known
Speaker 1: as Science Its News. On April twelfth of nineteen forty seven,
Speaker 1: they said, quote, the Chinese pyramids of that region are
Speaker 1: built of mud and dirt and are more like mounds
Speaker 1: than the pyramids of Egypt, and the region is little traveled.
Speaker 1: American scientists who have been in the area suggests that
Speaker 1: the height of one thousand feet or three hundred meters,
Speaker 1: more than twice as high as any of the Egyptian pyramids,
Speaker 1: may have been exaggerated because most of the Chinese mounds
Speaker 1: of that area are built relatively low. But the most
Speaker 1: important part of this story, and this quotation, comes at
Speaker 1: the end.
Speaker 2: The location reported forty miles sixty four kilometers southwest of
Speaker 2: Sean is in an area of great archaeological importance, but
Speaker 2: few of the pyramids have ever been explored.
Speaker 1: All right, so let's think about this, as so many
Speaker 1: academics want to say, let's unpack this. So the argument
Speaker 1: here is that experts are aware something exists out there,
Speaker 1: and they believe reports of the structure have either been
Speaker 1: purposefully or accidentally exaggerated, And although they gently point out
Speaker 1: that a pyramid is not automatically the Egyptian structure most
Speaker 1: people think of, they do admit that most scholars don't
Speaker 1: know what's inside these structures, or how they were built
Speaker 1: and so on.
Speaker 2: So many questions still remain right.
Speaker 1: And researchers like Chris Meyer are certain that the pyramid
Speaker 1: depicted in the nineteen forty seventh photo that we just
Speaker 1: described is actually the Mao Ling mausoleim of the Emperor.
Speaker 1: And while it is the largest tomb built during the
Speaker 1: Han dynasty, it's still only about one hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: four feet or forty seven meters high. So if you
Speaker 1: look at modern photos of the mound at this masuleim,
Speaker 1: it does bear a striking resemblance.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, I'm looking at one right now.
Speaker 1: There's a little more tree cover right as the trees
Speaker 1: have grown there, but it's still it's looks close enough
Speaker 1: for government work. This is where the mysteries remained for
Speaker 1: several decades. We knew there was something there, and the
Speaker 1: witnesses all proved to be real people rather than inventions
Speaker 1: of journalists. But we had no clue how old these
Speaker 1: structures might be, and we didn't know what might be inside,
Speaker 1: at least that is until now Here's where it gets crazy.
Speaker 2: So we may have solved that mystery of the legendary
Speaker 2: white Sparkly Pyramid. These recent investigations have revealed a lot
Speaker 2: more about ancient China than we thought they might. In
Speaker 2: August of twenty eighteen, there's an issue of Antiquity, a
Speaker 2: journal published by the Cambridge University Press archaeologists. They revealed
Speaker 2: that while excavating a ruin that historically people had thought
Speaker 2: are just scientists and archaeologists had thought it was part
Speaker 2: of the Great Wall, they actually stumbled across something completely different.
Speaker 1: Insanely different. I would say, you know how often in
Speaker 1: popular reporting, a small thing that could be maybe a
Speaker 1: possibility is turned into a height BuzzFeed y esque headline
Speaker 1: by different authors and stuff. This happens all the time
Speaker 1: in the world of experimental physics.
Speaker 2: Right pretty much any science, pretty.
Speaker 1: Much any science. This is unusual because this is the
Speaker 1: real deal. Everything we are about to tell you is
Speaker 1: absolutely true in China. What they found when they thought
Speaker 1: they were looking at this other part of the Great
Speaker 1: Wall was a four thousand, three hundred year old metropolis
Speaker 1: at least that old, a city that was lost completely
Speaker 1: to history, with a massive pyramid at its heart. This
Speaker 1: pyramid is at least two hundred and thirty feet tall
Speaker 1: or seventy meters tall, and it spans fifty nine acres
Speaker 1: or twenty three point eight hectares at its base.
Speaker 2: Now that is massive the essentially the area that it covers. Yeah,
Speaker 2: So just for a little perspective here, the Great pyramdive
Speaker 2: Pyramid of Giza, it has a height of about one
Speaker 2: hundred and thirty nine meters, so we're looking at seventy
Speaker 2: meters versus one hundred and thirty nine meters. So this,
Speaker 2: this new pyramid is significantly shorter. But the Great Pyramid
Speaker 2: of Giza, this massive thing that we all imagine when
Speaker 2: we see a pyramid, it only takes up about five
Speaker 2: and a half hectares at its base, Yeah, compared to
Speaker 2: twenty three point eight for this new pyramid.
Speaker 1: And this makes this new pyramid a much larger structure
Speaker 1: by some measures. Right, But also you know, we know
Speaker 1: this goes down to the construction methods, Yes, because one
Speaker 1: pyramid is stone, the other one we think is rammed
Speaker 1: compacted earth.
Speaker 2: We think, we think, but it makes sense because of
Speaker 2: its location that we'll get in too.
Speaker 1: Yeah here in a second, and it gets weirder. So
Speaker 1: this pyramid, which again was entirely lost to history, along
Speaker 1: with the city, which were just spoiler alert, the city
Speaker 1: was huge. The pyramid was decorated with eye symbols and
Speaker 1: anthropomorphic or part human part animal faces.
Speaker 2: The yeah, yeah, I eyes it had. It had eyes,
Speaker 2: pyramid eyes and animal human hybrids. It's very similar to
Speaker 2: Egyptian things that you will see in hieroglyphics. Just putting
Speaker 2: that out.
Speaker 1: There, and now I'm thinking of the eye of the
Speaker 1: pyramid on the dollars in our wallets. Oh boy, that's true. So,
Speaker 1: according to the scientists who conducted the dig or are
Speaker 1: conducting it, these figures may have endowed the stepped pyramid
Speaker 1: with special religious power and further strengthened the general visual
Speaker 1: impression on its large audience. It's stepped right, so it
Speaker 1: contains eleven steps. They're not the kind of steps you
Speaker 1: can easily walk up. These are the right angle kind
Speaker 1: of things like a zigguratt. Almost.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like floors in a way. It's not
Speaker 2: the same, but it feels similar to them.
Speaker 1: Each of these steps is lined with stone. On the
Speaker 1: topmost steps there were extensive palaces with wooden pillars, roofing tiles,
Speaker 1: a gigantic water reservoir, and domestic remains related to daily life.
Speaker 1: The rulers of the city lived on top of this
Speaker 1: pyramid on the eleventh step, of course they did on
Speaker 1: this pyramid carved with eyes. And also it looks like
Speaker 1: they had the artisans and the skilled crafts people living
Speaker 1: or at least working there. And they were a set
Speaker 1: of walls surrounded this enclosure. And then there was another
Speaker 1: set of walls surrounding the pyramid, which strict access by
Speaker 1: the common folk. And then there was another set of
Speaker 1: These are all stone walls, by the way, except no
Speaker 1: substitutions religious despots. There was another set of stone walls
Speaker 1: surrounding the city, so there are at least three to
Speaker 1: four degrees of protection these There are ramparts as well.
Speaker 1: It was a big deal. It was an entire city
Speaker 1: and was on lockdown. It also may be home to
Speaker 1: the oldest mural yet discovered in China.
Speaker 2: That's really cool, but it.
Speaker 1: Gets stranger still, right when should we tell them after.
Speaker 2: A word from our sponsors. So as Ben was saying,
Speaker 2: before the walls of this area, the two separate walls
Speaker 2: make this a gigantic space. And for some reason, somehow,
Speaker 2: even though it's such a large area, this place was
Speaker 2: completely lost to time right now to what it's modernly
Speaker 2: called is Shimau. We don't know what it was called,
Speaker 2: you know, when it was flourishing. We don't have any
Speaker 2: idea what what the civilization was or the people were.
Speaker 2: But for over five hundred years it flourished and grew,
Speaker 2: and eventually it reached an area of nine hundred and
Speaker 2: eighty eight acres that's the city itself, or four hundred hectares,
Speaker 2: and it made it one of the largest cities in
Speaker 2: the world at its time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the largest cities. We had no idea existed.
Speaker 1: We knew these ruins were there as part of the
Speaker 1: Great Wall, but no idea what was going on. Much
Speaker 1: less it was home to a pyramid. But what we
Speaker 1: do know now is that it was very strange place
Speaker 1: where at least it would seem alien to most modern
Speaker 1: observers today is a very very religious area, yeah, sort of,
Speaker 1: And you know, religion was a dominant political structure at
Speaker 1: the time, rights.
Speaker 2: As was in most pyramidal structures found throughout the world,
Speaker 2: there are spaces of religious importance.
Speaker 1: Right absolutely, so we have made or these teams have
Speaker 1: made some discoveries that are still baffling to some degree.
Speaker 1: So as the excavations continue. Archaeologists have already noted numerous
Speaker 1: aspects of the site, but one thing that particularly interested
Speaker 1: them is the wealth of jade artifacts that are crammed
Speaker 1: into spaces between the blocks and every structure in Chamal
Speaker 1: found so far, the archaeologist imagine this was meant to
Speaker 1: imbue the site with more religious power potency. Yeah, or
Speaker 1: the perception thereof.
Speaker 2: I'd love to know more about that. Just get like
Speaker 2: as they're finding more, As you know, a couple of
Speaker 2: years from now, maybe even a decade from now, we
Speaker 2: learn more about the significance of the jade in these structures.
Speaker 1: And why weren't they stolen?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just been sitting there.
Speaker 1: And the most grizzly part that we saved for last.
Speaker 1: There are also remains of numerous human sacrifices. How many
Speaker 1: we don't know yet. Because these excavations continue. In the
Speaker 1: outer gateway of the eastern gate on the outer rampart alone,
Speaker 1: so toward the very outside, the research team already found
Speaker 1: six pits full of human heads decapitated human skulls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and these are just pits where bodies were dumped.
Speaker 2: But in this case it's not whole bodies, it's just
Speaker 2: the heads.
Speaker 1: And some of the victims may be from another nearby
Speaker 1: archaeological site to the south of Schimau, and the people
Speaker 1: of this city may have conquered that neighboring site, and
Speaker 1: these victims are believed to have been taken to the
Speaker 1: pyramid as captives during the expansion of the city and
Speaker 1: then ritualistically killed for some religious give or take. We
Speaker 1: don't know the religious practices of the people who populated
Speaker 1: this city, yet we don't know how they influence creator China.
Speaker 1: In fact, the paper that we mentioned that was published
Speaker 1: in Antiquity is almost I mean, it's it's about how
Speaker 1: what is seen as the periphery of modern Chinese civilization
Speaker 1: today was once a center of a civilization. Now those
Speaker 1: things can shift. So it's a fairly dry paper. It's
Speaker 1: it is. It's not full of BuzzFeed y headlines, which
Speaker 1: I respect, but be aware if you find a copy.
Speaker 1: It is an academically centered work of thought.
Speaker 2: Well, it's a it's a it's a really I love
Speaker 2: thinking about it because it makes you change and question
Speaker 2: your thoughts about where civilization was developing in China at
Speaker 2: the time. Where were the and it's what you exactly
Speaker 2: what you're saying the papers about where were the centers
Speaker 2: of power? Because it feels like this place just with
Speaker 2: its size and the way it was militarily built, you know,
Speaker 2: to withstand all kinds of attack, and it was also
Speaker 2: a religious center. It makes it feel as though this
Speaker 2: perhaps played a large role in the bigger area where
Speaker 2: it's located.
Speaker 1: And here's another part of it that's strange. I mean,
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. We don't know why they disappeared or
Speaker 1: how they disappeared. We don't know what brought about the
Speaker 1: downfall of this five hundred plus year old city. Could
Speaker 1: it have been drought or famine? Those are two Those
Speaker 1: are two big factors and a lot of disappearances of
Speaker 1: ancient civilizations. Could it have been warring tribes or neighboring communities.
Speaker 1: Could it have been a disease? Could their violent religious
Speaker 1: practices have caught up with them? Is it dismissive for
Speaker 1: us to say violent religious practices. Maybe that's a good point,
Speaker 1: But here we have it. If a few years ago,
Speaker 1: if someone had told you or Matt or me that
Speaker 1: a secret empire flourished in China, powered by a religious
Speaker 1: belief in human sacrifice, probably have thought they were bonkers, right,
Speaker 1: Or you would have maybe put it in the same
Speaker 1: cognitive bucket that we reserve for allegations of ancient aliens
Speaker 1: stuff like that.
Speaker 2: Or you would have just said, I think you get
Speaker 2: the wrong area.
Speaker 1: Right, You would have said, maybe you're thinking of meso America. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: Well it just goes to show how many more discoveries
Speaker 1: await us. Our species is going to find things in
Speaker 1: the stars, in the ground, most particularly in the oceans
Speaker 1: beneath us. I'm pretty certain we're going to see more
Speaker 1: and more of this stuff as the technology to build
Speaker 1: reconstructions of things swallowed by the waves, As that technology
Speaker 1: increases in sophistication, decreases in price, we're going to see
Speaker 1: some startling things.
Speaker 2: I just want to say how much I love the
Speaker 2: phrase things swallowed by the waves.
Speaker 1: It's true, that's what happens, I know.
Speaker 2: I just enjoy that phrase everything is.
Speaker 1: Terrible and we're all gonna die.
Speaker 2: Well, that's true, I mean, that's definitely true. No, no, Ben, Ben,
Speaker 2: you're right because I agree and I'm right there with you, buddy.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Matt, thank you very thank you very much.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it is an ancient phrase that exists across
Speaker 1: many languages. I do have to crack myself. It's pith helmet,
Speaker 1: not plinth.
Speaker 2: Oh, pith helmet.
Speaker 1: Pith helmet. That's the that's the safari helmet.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the old doctor Livingston, I presume exactly.
Speaker 2: So what do you think was the significance of Schumau
Speaker 2: and this new pyramid and this new city that's been
Speaker 2: found out near the Great Wall? Have you ever been
Speaker 2: to the Great Wall and maybe seeing something near there
Speaker 2: that perhaps was this. Do you have any stories just
Speaker 2: in general from China and your travels or do you
Speaker 2: live in China and you could tell us something about
Speaker 2: any of this? Is there more? Because everything we've read
Speaker 2: so far, as academic papers and just some you know,
Speaker 2: some online journalism about what's been going on there, we'd
Speaker 2: love to hear a source from a like a primary
Speaker 2: source from the area and tell us about it. If
Speaker 2: you want to do that, you can find us on
Speaker 2: Twitter where we're Conspiracy Stuff Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram.
Speaker 2: Facebook is conspiracy Stuff and you should definitely join up
Speaker 2: with our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. All
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Speaker 1: Sure, and I'm if I'm the I'm notoriously happy to
Speaker 1: let somebody in if there's something that makes me.
Speaker 2: Laugh, Oh I do answer, don't tell cat.
Speaker 1: Sure, And that's that's kat Riley, one of our moderators.
Speaker 1: Shout out to you, Kat, Shout out to Zach and
Speaker 1: the rest of the team. Oh yeah. Additionally, we are
Speaker 1: going on tour to a city near you. You can
Speaker 1: find details about that on our website. There's probably depending
Speaker 1: on where you live, there's probably an ad playing about
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Speaker 1: there is redundancy that exists.
Speaker 2: We don't need your forgiveness. This isn't this isn't redundant.
Speaker 2: This is important, Ben.
Speaker 1: There we go. Well, you know what, Matt, You're right,
Speaker 1: because I was all a segue for me to say.
Speaker 1: If you are a Mandarin speaking or Cantonese speaking listener,
Speaker 1: please forgive us our mispronunciations. Okay, that when I am
Speaker 1: going to stick with Yeah, the tour thing was just
Speaker 1: trying to get to a get to a segue there,
Speaker 1: but speaking Oh yeah.
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Speaker 2: There you go. It'll be a great date.
Speaker 1: It actually will be as being to talk to you
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