1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: Fellow conspiracy realist. We returned to you with a classic 2 00:00:02,880 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: episode this evening, and this one is a banger, stem 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: to stir. When you hear the word pyramids, you probably 4 00:00:10,960 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: think of Egypt, but there's much much more to the story. Yeah, 5 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,600 Speaker 1: turns out there's some hiding in China. 6 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 2: Well, this is astounding. And I remember when we first 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,239 Speaker 2: started picking this this idea up, and we were you 8 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 2: remember being we were being sent things about this. Then 9 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 2: I think, initially, well, I don't want to speak for you, Ben, 10 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 2: but initially I was like, eh, whatever, yeah, yeah, yeah, 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: that can't be real. Let me check it out. And 12 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 2: then stuff gets weird in this one because I think 13 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 2: it has to do with the way we look at 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,599 Speaker 2: certain places in China, certain slightly more rural areas in 15 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 2: China that do appear to have other stuff going on 16 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:55,640 Speaker 2: beneath them, kind of the way we think about parts 17 00:00:55,640 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: of rainforests, right, where there's hidden things beneath the folio. 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 1: Right. And this episode comes out a little bit before 19 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,920 Speaker 1: light ar becomes super widespread and affordable. So when you 20 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: tune in here, you're going to learn about light ar, 21 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:16,600 Speaker 1: You're going to learn about the speculation around why these 22 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:21,800 Speaker 1: pyramids were not maintained and did not become big tourist spots. 23 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: Because those who control history control the present, and those 24 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: who control the present control the future. Let's jump right in. 25 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 3: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 26 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 3: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 27 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 3: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. 28 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. 29 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: They called me Ben. We are joined with our super preducer, 30 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,480 Speaker 1: Paul the Ace decond. Most importantly, you are you. You 31 00:02:05,640 --> 00:02:09,160 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want 32 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: you to know we're going into. I was thinking about 33 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: this off airmat. We're going into a bit of a 34 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: pyramid scheme today, but the not the way we ordinarily do. 35 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 2: Oh god, okay, yes we are. We're going into an 36 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: actual pyramid scheme, where a scheme of pyramids, a scheme 37 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 2: about a pyramid. 38 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 1: Several schemes in fact. 39 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. 40 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: So in an earlier episode, you and I explored the 41 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,679 Speaker 1: stories of non Egyptian pyramids. Do you remember that one? 42 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,400 Speaker 2: Yeah? They were all over the world, places where you 43 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 2: probably wouldn't expect to find pyramids. 44 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,119 Speaker 1: Sure, even if you are a seasoned archaeologist. Right, It's 45 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,760 Speaker 1: true that while most people, at least here in the 46 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 1: West associate pyramids with the Valley of Kings in ancient Egypt, 47 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, the huge Pyramid of Giza and stuff, the 48 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 1: world has tons of other smaller similar structures. 49 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, you also are you associate the pyramid with a 50 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:12,920 Speaker 2: rigid structure in a way built out of some sort 51 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: of stone or block, right where it's highly defined. But 52 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 2: then you get other things like cigarettes that you find 53 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,760 Speaker 2: throughout the world, especially in places like Central and South America. 54 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 2: You got mounds in North America. You can find those 55 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: all over the place. Even here in Georgia you can 56 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: find some different kinds of mounds. You can find them 57 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:33,119 Speaker 2: in Europe too. 58 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 1: Yeah. In fact, structures similar to pyramids have been found 59 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: not just in Europe, not just in Mesoamerica, in North America, 60 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:47,480 Speaker 1: but in Indonesia, Peru, India, the Roman Empire, Sudan and 61 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: the Kingdom of Nubia, Greece, Nigeria, all these other places 62 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 1: that you would not normally expect to be home to pyramids. 63 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: In fact, we could likely say, if there's a land 64 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:02,200 Speaker 1: mass that you think does not have pyramids on it, 65 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: you're probably wrong, unless we're talking about Antarctica, which is 66 00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 1: a different episode. We've read the emails, we will get 67 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: to it. 68 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: I wonder this is not something that I have researched, 69 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,040 Speaker 2: and I don't know if you have either, But pyramids 70 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 2: on islands, I wonder how common that is because it 71 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:21,800 Speaker 2: seems like it would be difficult to find just the 72 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:24,400 Speaker 2: raw materials to make a pyramid. 73 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:28,760 Speaker 1: True, true? And would those be more of the mound 74 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:34,279 Speaker 1: type things, given the difficulties of creating large works of 75 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:40,719 Speaker 1: stone in most islands other than the Rapanui in Easter Island, right, Yeah, 76 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:45,320 Speaker 1: that was an enormous undertaking. They also apparently the people 77 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: destroyed their economy in pursuit of these. Yeah. Such a 78 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 1: fascinating tragic story. But it's a good point, Matt. The 79 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:58,360 Speaker 1: glib answer to that question, where the glib deflection rather is, well, 80 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 1: isn't a continent just a large island? Oh? We don't 81 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: think that flies, folks. We think there is a size 82 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:07,920 Speaker 1: limit to what should be termed an island. 83 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:09,560 Speaker 2: Well, And as we're going to find out, there are 84 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,400 Speaker 2: many ways to build a pyramid like structure, and one 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:15,479 Speaker 2: of them is just to take the earth that exists 86 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: there and basically press it as hard as you can 87 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,960 Speaker 2: to create a. 88 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: Structure, and quite a few pyramids are exactly that. They 89 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: are pressed rammed earth. And for a long time, there 90 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: were tons of legends about pyramids in one of the 91 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: most mysterious parts of the world, at least to early Westerners, 92 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: that is China. This vast continent so far to the east, 93 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:55,040 Speaker 1: so distant that legend and fact were treated equally because 94 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,839 Speaker 1: no one could prove one or the other. 95 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 2: And they certainly intermingle, and it was difficult to figure 96 00:05:59,520 --> 00:05:59,919 Speaker 2: out what's what. 97 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 1: Oh sure, yeah, well. 98 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: I mean there were legends that China had these ancient, 99 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 2: ancient pyramids that were around long before any other structure, 100 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,159 Speaker 2: that were perhaps hidden for some reason. 101 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,279 Speaker 1: Right hidden from the rest of the world. And this 102 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: idea makes sense when we look at the historical context 103 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: of trade restrictions and travel restrictions in China for Westerners, 104 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 1: you know, like the secret of the silkworm or silk manufacturing. 105 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: It seemed very reasonable to people that, of course this 106 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:40,120 Speaker 1: civilization would have more secrets, you know, that's just what 107 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,120 Speaker 1: they do, apparently. 108 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:46,000 Speaker 2: And the ancient secrets are some of the most fascinating, 109 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,159 Speaker 2: right be sure, are the ones that especially gosh ancient 110 00:06:50,240 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 2: hidden secrets. That's just like perfect. It's the perfect thing 111 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: for any mystery novel, for any anyone who's even inclined 112 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 2: to want to ex flore those regions of their own mind. 113 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. And I know when we say ancient hidden secrets, 114 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: many people may think, well, what are you guys going 115 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: to go full history channel on me here? Not really, 116 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: but we do have to point out that there are 117 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: so many real examples of ancient hidden secrets, often tied 118 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: to religions, to history religions, right, and so it is 119 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 1: completely reasonable if we're a person who's living in these 120 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 1: ages past, it's completely reasonable for us to assume that 121 00:07:35,840 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: this legend of pyramids is true. However, things change here, 122 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: and we have to start with the folklore. So here 123 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,120 Speaker 1: are the facts. After these legends have been established, and 124 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:53,880 Speaker 1: they are pretty well insulated into the world of Western 125 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:57,800 Speaker 1: folklore as kind of footnotes. There's not a ton of 126 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: exploration or literature about them. Things change when a modern 127 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: sighting occurs. In nineteen twelve, there's a trader and a 128 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: travel agent by the name of Fred Meyer Schroeder who 129 00:08:11,320 --> 00:08:14,000 Speaker 1: is the first modern Westerner to record a sighting of 130 00:08:14,040 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: a pyramid and the shan Shi province of the country 131 00:08:17,600 --> 00:08:20,960 Speaker 1: of China. So what happens. It's nineteen twelve, which means 132 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: he's probably not flying right. 133 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's got one of those hats you know that 134 00:08:25,640 --> 00:08:31,600 Speaker 2: you find in old movies, the large explorer. 135 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:31,960 Speaker 1: Hats the plinth. 136 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 3: Ha. 137 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, not necessarily. But he's walking. He's got a guide 138 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,839 Speaker 2: with him who happened to be a Buddhist monk. And 139 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:42,200 Speaker 2: then he sees way off in the distance. He's not 140 00:08:42,240 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 2: really sure what it is, but he kind of squints 141 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,599 Speaker 2: a little bit maybe and he thinks, oh, that's a pyramid, 142 00:08:49,040 --> 00:08:51,240 Speaker 2: and there are all these other little structures around it. 143 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: WHOA what am I looking at here? 144 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 1: And we have a quote, Yes, he says, let's see, 145 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:01,199 Speaker 1: he's an old timey American. Yeah, it was even more 146 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:03,600 Speaker 1: on Cannae than if we had found it in the wilderness. 147 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: About those pyramids well to some extent exposed to the 148 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:08,880 Speaker 1: eyes of the world, but still totally unknown in the 149 00:09:08,920 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: western world. 150 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 2: Yes, yes so. And just the remarkable thing, at least 151 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,440 Speaker 2: in his eyes, with this discovery is that they're just 152 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 2: kind of sitting there. And if you happen to be 153 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,760 Speaker 2: walking along where he was walking along, or maybe even 154 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:27,560 Speaker 2: flying a plane in that area. Well, yeah, or you know, 155 00:09:28,240 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 2: in the air of for some reason, in a blimp. 156 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: Even, or a hot air balloon, a hot. 157 00:09:31,800 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 2: Air balloon, you're going to see this thing and it's 158 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 2: just sitting there and it would be very difficult to 159 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: cover up the fact that it existed. 160 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: Right, And by comparison, there are people in the modern 161 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 1: day who experience a similar fascination when they attempt to 162 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: observe spy satellites. Oh yeah, right, because they're publicly unacknowledged. 163 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 1: No one's supposed to know about them, but you can't 164 00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: really hide them. They still blink, or you couldn't for 165 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 1: a while, right, So it's just in verse as far 166 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:04,680 Speaker 1: as elevation and site. 167 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, sightline. 168 00:10:06,559 --> 00:10:08,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not one to one, but it's still it's 169 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 1: it's a pretty I don't know, it's somewhere between hilarious 170 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:17,560 Speaker 1: and fascinating. But it's important to note here that fred 171 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 1: Meyer Schroeder is an actual person. So in a lot 172 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: of these early explorer stories and tales like the idea 173 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: of an ancient civilization hidden in the Grand Canyon, what 174 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 1: we find is that the person who is our reporter, 175 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:38,840 Speaker 1: our eyewitness for this stuff often turns out to be 176 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 1: the pseudonym for a unscrupulous journalist or an editor who 177 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 1: wants to get people excited. However, there's a great book 178 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,440 Speaker 1: you can read. There's an Okay book you can read 179 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: called Guns, Gold and Caravans. The Extraordinary Life and Times 180 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: of Fred Meyer Schroeder. It's back in. 181 00:10:58,520 --> 00:10:59,559 Speaker 2: Was it written by him. 182 00:10:59,600 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: No, it's written by Robert one Easton, Okay. And Robert 183 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: Easton writes this biography, which is based on primary sources 184 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: in first person, Oh, which is I would say that 185 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: put me off a bit about it. Yeah, just just 186 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 1: reading a first person biography is is a little weird 187 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 1: to me. But it does go through the life and 188 00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:27,760 Speaker 1: times of this guy. So we do know that he 189 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:30,960 Speaker 1: is real. We do know that in nineteen twelve he 190 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:32,079 Speaker 1: saw something. 191 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 2: Maybe it was just pyramid, like you know, maybe it 192 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 2: was a structure that appeared to be a pyramid from 193 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 2: that distance from his vantage point. 194 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,000 Speaker 1: Right. So one of the initial questions some of the 195 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: more skeptical of us in the crowd may be asking, 196 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: is what's the difference between what looks like a pyramid 197 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: in in a close to mid distance and a mountain. 198 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:58,400 Speaker 1: You know, given the right terrain, a mountain could look 199 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,600 Speaker 1: pyramid esque, just a hill maybe yeah, or just a hill. 200 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: What's the difference. 201 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:06,480 Speaker 2: Be that? 202 00:12:06,600 --> 00:12:10,120 Speaker 1: As it may, Schroeder goes on to have many adventures, 203 00:12:10,160 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 1: and our story leaves him. It jumps to nineteen forty five. 204 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: There's a US Air pilot named James Gosman on the 205 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:22,360 Speaker 1: return leg of a supply run from China to India. 206 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: And during this run, just to imagine the cartography here, 207 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: during this flight, they leave from a position China to 208 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:37,400 Speaker 1: supply arms or food other various sunderies to a spot 209 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: in India, and it's a round trip thing, so they 210 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: fly back to China. This can be dangerous because there's 211 00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:49,320 Speaker 1: not a huge margin of error for the fuel tank. 212 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: They have to go over something called the Burma bump, 213 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: which may be familiar to people who have looked into 214 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,440 Speaker 1: this era of time in this part of the world. 215 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 1: So the Burma bumps the problem. The guy's flying back 216 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: to China after dropping off these supplies, and due to 217 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: engine trouble, he has to lower his altitude, so he 218 00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:13,120 Speaker 1: was much lower than he would have normally at this 219 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: point in the trip and that's when things get kind 220 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:16,200 Speaker 1: of weird. 221 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:22,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. He again, very similarly, he sees what he believes 222 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:24,040 Speaker 2: to be a pyramid. 223 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: And this is no ordinary pyramid to him. This thing 224 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: is huge. He says, it's got to be bigger than 225 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: the pyramids in Egypt, and it must be built of 226 00:13:36,160 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: some sparkling white marble or polished stone. And why does 227 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: it have why is that jewels encrusting the capstone? What 228 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,480 Speaker 1: the hell is going on? But of course he's still 229 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: got a land his plane, so he makes a note 230 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: of it. He flies back over and he is convinced. 231 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 1: We do have to say, in his defense here or 232 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: in defense of his account, he is a professional pilot. Yeah, 233 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: so he is familiar with how things appear from the air. 234 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,120 Speaker 1: He gets the concept of perspective and the various factors 235 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: that could influence his vision because he has to rely 236 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 1: on this vision. It's nineteen forty five. He has to 237 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,680 Speaker 1: rely on this vision in order to stay alive in 238 00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: the air. So he is one of the most reliable 239 00:14:27,360 --> 00:14:30,840 Speaker 1: witnesses possible at this point. And he's not the only 240 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: person who sees this. 241 00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 2: No, So that was nineteen forty five when James Gosman 242 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: saw it. Then two years later, March twenty eighth, nineteen 243 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:45,400 Speaker 2: forty seven, Colonel Maurice Sheehan, he's the Far Eastern director 244 00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: of the trans World Airline. He recounted a sighting that 245 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 2: ended up in the New York Times. Actually his recounting, 246 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 2: and we have another. 247 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: Quote, would you do the honest? 248 00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I flew around a mountain, and then we came 249 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: to a valley. Directly below us was a gigantic white pyramid. 250 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 2: It looked as if it were from a fairy tale. 251 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: The pyramid was draped and shimmering white. It could have 252 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:12,800 Speaker 2: been metal or some other form of stone. It was 253 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 2: white on all sides. What was most curious about it 254 00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 2: was its capstone, a large piece of precious gem like material. 255 00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: I was deeply moved by the colossal size of the thing. 256 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:28,800 Speaker 1: And a few days after this, there's a photo that emerges. 257 00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 1: It's printed in the New York Sunday News. This photo 258 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:38,080 Speaker 1: is allegedly of the pyramid that they are describing, and 259 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: Matt we you'd pulled up the original photograph. There it 260 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: does it looks like a man made mound. It does, certainly, 261 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:56,760 Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily match the description that Sheihan and Gosman 262 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: are putting on it, probably due to the quality of 263 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,960 Speaker 1: the photograph and the fact that it's in black and white, 264 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:04,760 Speaker 1: so you don't see the same color values. 265 00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's high contrast black and white. The angle that 266 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 2: it's at you can see the shadow from the sun 267 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: casting the pyramid shape, so you can tell that it 268 00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:22,200 Speaker 2: is actually pyramid shaped. There's not much around it. It 269 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 2: looks like there may be some structures of some sort 270 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 2: on one of the sides. Yeah, but yeah, it's I mean, 271 00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 2: it definitely is pyramid shapes. 272 00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 1: So this and similar stories they draw a great public 273 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 1: interest and the game of telephone begins. So now when 274 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,160 Speaker 1: you read about these encounters on many sites, what you'll 275 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 1: see is that the quote from Sheehan is attributed to 276 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:56,080 Speaker 1: Gosman as well as the photo. That doesn't discredit what 277 00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 1: they're saying, But it is important for us to note 278 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: that people started mudding things up pretty early on in 279 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: this story. So for many people, even in twenty eighteen, 280 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,480 Speaker 1: that was the first time the West was aware of 281 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: these structures. That's what most people believe. That's what many 282 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 1: of us believe. It started in the nineteen forties. What's 283 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 1: happening now we'll shed some light on this. After a 284 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: word from our sponsor, we're back and we're going back 285 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: in time. We're going to the first Western mention of 286 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,480 Speaker 1: Chinese pyramids, which is not in nineteen forty seven. 287 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 2: No, it goes back to sixteen sixty seven when Jesuit 288 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 2: Athanasius Kersher writes about them in his book China Monumentous Illustrata. 289 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 2: And you can actually find this on archive dot org 290 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 2: if you choose to go down that rabbit hole. It 291 00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:02,840 Speaker 2: is really interesting looking. You can flip through some of 292 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,639 Speaker 2: the pages and look at it. It's got some great 293 00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:11,080 Speaker 2: maps in there of China. It's got lots of writing 294 00:18:11,800 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 2: that I cannot read. It's a cool manuscripture book. It's 295 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,680 Speaker 2: very very cool. Oh wow, really great illustrations in here. 296 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,880 Speaker 1: And in this book he conducts more of a survey 297 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: of these various structures. Yeah, and as you said, doesn't 298 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: spend an inordinate amount of time on any particular one, 299 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:37,200 Speaker 1: but he does mention them again sixteen sixty seven. And 300 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,800 Speaker 1: if we jump back to the days of Gosman and 301 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: Sheihan and the various things being published in newspapers about 302 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,280 Speaker 1: these pyramids, we find that bless their hearts, as they 303 00:18:49,320 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: say in the South, and outfit named the Science Newsletter 304 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 1: tried to dispel some of what they saw is exaggeration. 305 00:18:56,520 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: This publication exists today, by the way, they are known 306 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: as Science Its News. On April twelfth of nineteen forty seven, 307 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 1: they said, quote, the Chinese pyramids of that region are 308 00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 1: built of mud and dirt and are more like mounds 309 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,920 Speaker 1: than the pyramids of Egypt, and the region is little traveled. 310 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,040 Speaker 1: American scientists who have been in the area suggests that 311 00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:20,159 Speaker 1: the height of one thousand feet or three hundred meters, 312 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: more than twice as high as any of the Egyptian pyramids, 313 00:19:23,320 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: may have been exaggerated because most of the Chinese mounds 314 00:19:26,320 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: of that area are built relatively low. But the most 315 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 1: important part of this story, and this quotation, comes at 316 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: the end. 317 00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 2: The location reported forty miles sixty four kilometers southwest of 318 00:19:37,520 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 2: Sean is in an area of great archaeological importance, but 319 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 2: few of the pyramids have ever been explored. 320 00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:48,920 Speaker 1: All right, so let's think about this, as so many 321 00:19:48,960 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: academics want to say, let's unpack this. So the argument 322 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: here is that experts are aware something exists out there, 323 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: and they believe reports of the structure have either been 324 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: purposefully or accidentally exaggerated, And although they gently point out 325 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 1: that a pyramid is not automatically the Egyptian structure most 326 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,840 Speaker 1: people think of, they do admit that most scholars don't 327 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:15,679 Speaker 1: know what's inside these structures, or how they were built 328 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:16,480 Speaker 1: and so on. 329 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,520 Speaker 2: So many questions still remain right. 330 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:23,120 Speaker 1: And researchers like Chris Meyer are certain that the pyramid 331 00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:26,359 Speaker 1: depicted in the nineteen forty seventh photo that we just 332 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:30,280 Speaker 1: described is actually the Mao Ling mausoleim of the Emperor. 333 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 1: And while it is the largest tomb built during the 334 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:38,000 Speaker 1: Han dynasty, it's still only about one hundred and fifty 335 00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,240 Speaker 1: four feet or forty seven meters high. So if you 336 00:20:42,320 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 1: look at modern photos of the mound at this masuleim, 337 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: it does bear a striking resemblance. 338 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:52,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, for sure, I'm looking at one right now. 339 00:20:53,880 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 1: There's a little more tree cover right as the trees 340 00:20:56,840 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 1: have grown there, but it's still it's looks close enough 341 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: for government work. This is where the mysteries remained for 342 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,000 Speaker 1: several decades. We knew there was something there, and the 343 00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:12,959 Speaker 1: witnesses all proved to be real people rather than inventions 344 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: of journalists. But we had no clue how old these 345 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,199 Speaker 1: structures might be, and we didn't know what might be inside, 346 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: at least that is until now Here's where it gets crazy. 347 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 2: So we may have solved that mystery of the legendary 348 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 2: white Sparkly Pyramid. These recent investigations have revealed a lot 349 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:38,760 Speaker 2: more about ancient China than we thought they might. In 350 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,080 Speaker 2: August of twenty eighteen, there's an issue of Antiquity, a 351 00:21:42,119 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 2: journal published by the Cambridge University Press archaeologists. They revealed 352 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 2: that while excavating a ruin that historically people had thought 353 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:53,960 Speaker 2: are just scientists and archaeologists had thought it was part 354 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: of the Great Wall, they actually stumbled across something completely different. 355 00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:03,040 Speaker 1: Insanely different. I would say, you know how often in 356 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:10,080 Speaker 1: popular reporting, a small thing that could be maybe a 357 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: possibility is turned into a height BuzzFeed y esque headline 358 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:18,440 Speaker 1: by different authors and stuff. This happens all the time 359 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: in the world of experimental physics. 360 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,119 Speaker 2: Right pretty much any science, pretty. 361 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,040 Speaker 1: Much any science. This is unusual because this is the 362 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:30,359 Speaker 1: real deal. Everything we are about to tell you is 363 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,880 Speaker 1: absolutely true in China. What they found when they thought 364 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,000 Speaker 1: they were looking at this other part of the Great 365 00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:43,960 Speaker 1: Wall was a four thousand, three hundred year old metropolis 366 00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 1: at least that old, a city that was lost completely 367 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:51,679 Speaker 1: to history, with a massive pyramid at its heart. This 368 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,160 Speaker 1: pyramid is at least two hundred and thirty feet tall 369 00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: or seventy meters tall, and it spans fifty nine acres 370 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 1: or twenty three point eight hectares at its base. 371 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: Now that is massive the essentially the area that it covers. Yeah, 372 00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 2: So just for a little perspective here, the Great pyramdive 373 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,280 Speaker 2: Pyramid of Giza, it has a height of about one 374 00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:17,240 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty nine meters, so we're looking at seventy 375 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:21,360 Speaker 2: meters versus one hundred and thirty nine meters. So this, 376 00:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,399 Speaker 2: this new pyramid is significantly shorter. But the Great Pyramid 377 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,840 Speaker 2: of Giza, this massive thing that we all imagine when 378 00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:30,400 Speaker 2: we see a pyramid, it only takes up about five 379 00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 2: and a half hectares at its base, Yeah, compared to 380 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 2: twenty three point eight for this new pyramid. 381 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: And this makes this new pyramid a much larger structure 382 00:23:41,880 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: by some measures. Right, But also you know, we know 383 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,520 Speaker 1: this goes down to the construction methods, Yes, because one 384 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: pyramid is stone, the other one we think is rammed 385 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 1: compacted earth. 386 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 2: We think, we think, but it makes sense because of 387 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: its location that we'll get in too. 388 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 1: Yeah here in a second, and it gets weirder. So 389 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 1: this pyramid, which again was entirely lost to history, along 390 00:24:07,359 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 1: with the city, which were just spoiler alert, the city 391 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:14,560 Speaker 1: was huge. The pyramid was decorated with eye symbols and 392 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: anthropomorphic or part human part animal faces. 393 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,640 Speaker 2: The yeah, yeah, I eyes it had. It had eyes, 394 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:28,919 Speaker 2: pyramid eyes and animal human hybrids. It's very similar to 395 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:33,119 Speaker 2: Egyptian things that you will see in hieroglyphics. Just putting 396 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 2: that out. 397 00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: There, and now I'm thinking of the eye of the 398 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: pyramid on the dollars in our wallets. Oh boy, that's true. So, 399 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,639 Speaker 1: according to the scientists who conducted the dig or are 400 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 1: conducting it, these figures may have endowed the stepped pyramid 401 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,880 Speaker 1: with special religious power and further strengthened the general visual 402 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,560 Speaker 1: impression on its large audience. It's stepped right, so it 403 00:24:57,680 --> 00:25:02,240 Speaker 1: contains eleven steps. They're not the kind of steps you 404 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:06,520 Speaker 1: can easily walk up. These are the right angle kind 405 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:08,040 Speaker 1: of things like a zigguratt. Almost. 406 00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:10,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's almost like floors in a way. It's not 407 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:13,320 Speaker 2: the same, but it feels similar to them. 408 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: Each of these steps is lined with stone. On the 409 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: topmost steps there were extensive palaces with wooden pillars, roofing tiles, 410 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: a gigantic water reservoir, and domestic remains related to daily life. 411 00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: The rulers of the city lived on top of this 412 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: pyramid on the eleventh step, of course they did on 413 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,280 Speaker 1: this pyramid carved with eyes. And also it looks like 414 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:45,119 Speaker 1: they had the artisans and the skilled crafts people living 415 00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: or at least working there. And they were a set 416 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,919 Speaker 1: of walls surrounded this enclosure. And then there was another 417 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,920 Speaker 1: set of walls surrounding the pyramid, which strict access by 418 00:25:56,920 --> 00:25:59,439 Speaker 1: the common folk. And then there was another set of 419 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: These are all stone walls, by the way, except no 420 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: substitutions religious despots. There was another set of stone walls 421 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,199 Speaker 1: surrounding the city, so there are at least three to 422 00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: four degrees of protection these There are ramparts as well. 423 00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: It was a big deal. It was an entire city 424 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,879 Speaker 1: and was on lockdown. It also may be home to 425 00:26:21,040 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: the oldest mural yet discovered in China. 426 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,240 Speaker 2: That's really cool, but it. 427 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 1: Gets stranger still, right when should we tell them after. 428 00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 2: A word from our sponsors. So as Ben was saying, 429 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:47,080 Speaker 2: before the walls of this area, the two separate walls 430 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 2: make this a gigantic space. And for some reason, somehow, 431 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 2: even though it's such a large area, this place was 432 00:26:56,880 --> 00:27:01,680 Speaker 2: completely lost to time right now to what it's modernly 433 00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,919 Speaker 2: called is Shimau. We don't know what it was called, 434 00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,560 Speaker 2: you know, when it was flourishing. We don't have any 435 00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:13,120 Speaker 2: idea what what the civilization was or the people were. 436 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,720 Speaker 2: But for over five hundred years it flourished and grew, 437 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,840 Speaker 2: and eventually it reached an area of nine hundred and 438 00:27:20,119 --> 00:27:24,719 Speaker 2: eighty eight acres that's the city itself, or four hundred hectares, 439 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 2: and it made it one of the largest cities in 440 00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: the world at its time. 441 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, one of the largest cities. We had no idea existed. 442 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 1: We knew these ruins were there as part of the 443 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,920 Speaker 1: Great Wall, but no idea what was going on. Much 444 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: less it was home to a pyramid. But what we 445 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 1: do know now is that it was very strange place 446 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,840 Speaker 1: where at least it would seem alien to most modern 447 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:58,159 Speaker 1: observers today is a very very religious area, yeah, sort of, 448 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 1: And you know, religion was a dominant political structure at 449 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:05,040 Speaker 1: the time, rights. 450 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:08,440 Speaker 2: As was in most pyramidal structures found throughout the world, 451 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 2: there are spaces of religious importance. 452 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:16,560 Speaker 1: Right absolutely, so we have made or these teams have 453 00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:22,199 Speaker 1: made some discoveries that are still baffling to some degree. 454 00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:26,719 Speaker 1: So as the excavations continue. Archaeologists have already noted numerous 455 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: aspects of the site, but one thing that particularly interested 456 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,880 Speaker 1: them is the wealth of jade artifacts that are crammed 457 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: into spaces between the blocks and every structure in Chamal 458 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:42,240 Speaker 1: found so far, the archaeologist imagine this was meant to 459 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: imbue the site with more religious power potency. Yeah, or 460 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: the perception thereof. 461 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 2: I'd love to know more about that. Just get like 462 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,640 Speaker 2: as they're finding more, As you know, a couple of 463 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 2: years from now, maybe even a decade from now, we 464 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 2: learn more about the significance of the jade in these structures. 465 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:01,680 Speaker 1: And why weren't they stolen? 466 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just been sitting there. 467 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,120 Speaker 1: And the most grizzly part that we saved for last. 468 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:15,000 Speaker 1: There are also remains of numerous human sacrifices. How many 469 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,840 Speaker 1: we don't know yet. Because these excavations continue. In the 470 00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: outer gateway of the eastern gate on the outer rampart alone, 471 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: so toward the very outside, the research team already found 472 00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,600 Speaker 1: six pits full of human heads decapitated human skulls. 473 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and these are just pits where bodies were dumped. 474 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:38,120 Speaker 2: But in this case it's not whole bodies, it's just 475 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:38,719 Speaker 2: the heads. 476 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: And some of the victims may be from another nearby 477 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 1: archaeological site to the south of Schimau, and the people 478 00:29:46,400 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 1: of this city may have conquered that neighboring site, and 479 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:54,480 Speaker 1: these victims are believed to have been taken to the 480 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,400 Speaker 1: pyramid as captives during the expansion of the city and 481 00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: then ritualistically killed for some religious give or take. We 482 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:09,960 Speaker 1: don't know the religious practices of the people who populated 483 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,640 Speaker 1: this city, yet we don't know how they influence creator China. 484 00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: In fact, the paper that we mentioned that was published 485 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:23,880 Speaker 1: in Antiquity is almost I mean, it's it's about how 486 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: what is seen as the periphery of modern Chinese civilization 487 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: today was once a center of a civilization. Now those 488 00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: things can shift. So it's a fairly dry paper. It's 489 00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:41,600 Speaker 1: it is. It's not full of BuzzFeed y headlines, which 490 00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: I respect, but be aware if you find a copy. 491 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 1: It is an academically centered work of thought. 492 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 2: Well, it's a it's a it's a really I love 493 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 2: thinking about it because it makes you change and question 494 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:02,800 Speaker 2: your thoughts about where civilization was developing in China at 495 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,080 Speaker 2: the time. Where were the and it's what you exactly 496 00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,080 Speaker 2: what you're saying the papers about where were the centers 497 00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:10,360 Speaker 2: of power? Because it feels like this place just with 498 00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: its size and the way it was militarily built, you know, 499 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 2: to withstand all kinds of attack, and it was also 500 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,959 Speaker 2: a religious center. It makes it feel as though this 501 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:24,040 Speaker 2: perhaps played a large role in the bigger area where 502 00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 2: it's located. 503 00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: And here's another part of it that's strange. I mean, 504 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:34,280 Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. We don't know why they disappeared or 505 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 1: how they disappeared. We don't know what brought about the 506 00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 1: downfall of this five hundred plus year old city. Could 507 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:46,680 Speaker 1: it have been drought or famine? Those are two Those 508 00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:50,440 Speaker 1: are two big factors and a lot of disappearances of 509 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: ancient civilizations. Could it have been warring tribes or neighboring communities. 510 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:03,080 Speaker 1: Could it have been a disease? Could their violent religious 511 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,520 Speaker 1: practices have caught up with them? Is it dismissive for 512 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:11,120 Speaker 1: us to say violent religious practices. Maybe that's a good point, 513 00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,720 Speaker 1: But here we have it. If a few years ago, 514 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:17,000 Speaker 1: if someone had told you or Matt or me that 515 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,520 Speaker 1: a secret empire flourished in China, powered by a religious 516 00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,880 Speaker 1: belief in human sacrifice, probably have thought they were bonkers, right, 517 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,080 Speaker 1: Or you would have maybe put it in the same 518 00:32:29,560 --> 00:32:35,040 Speaker 1: cognitive bucket that we reserve for allegations of ancient aliens 519 00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:36,280 Speaker 1: stuff like that. 520 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:37,720 Speaker 2: Or you would have just said, I think you get 521 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 2: the wrong area. 522 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,200 Speaker 1: Right, You would have said, maybe you're thinking of meso America. Yeah, right, 523 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,120 Speaker 1: Well it just goes to show how many more discoveries 524 00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,160 Speaker 1: await us. Our species is going to find things in 525 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 1: the stars, in the ground, most particularly in the oceans 526 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: beneath us. I'm pretty certain we're going to see more 527 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:01,280 Speaker 1: and more of this stuff as the technology to build 528 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,760 Speaker 1: reconstructions of things swallowed by the waves, As that technology 529 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: increases in sophistication, decreases in price, we're going to see 530 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:10,360 Speaker 1: some startling things. 531 00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:11,960 Speaker 2: I just want to say how much I love the 532 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,200 Speaker 2: phrase things swallowed by the waves. 533 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,560 Speaker 1: It's true, that's what happens, I know. 534 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 2: I just enjoy that phrase everything is. 535 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 1: Terrible and we're all gonna die. 536 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 2: Well, that's true, I mean, that's definitely true. No, no, Ben, Ben, 537 00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 2: you're right because I agree and I'm right there with you, buddy. 538 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, Matt, thank you very thank you very much. 539 00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: I'm sure it is an ancient phrase that exists across 540 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:37,280 Speaker 1: many languages. I do have to crack myself. It's pith helmet, 541 00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: not plinth. 542 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:39,560 Speaker 2: Oh, pith helmet. 543 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,160 Speaker 1: Pith helmet. That's the that's the safari helmet. 544 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's pity. 545 00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, the old doctor Livingston, I presume exactly. 546 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:53,160 Speaker 2: So what do you think was the significance of Schumau 547 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:57,640 Speaker 2: and this new pyramid and this new city that's been 548 00:33:57,680 --> 00:33:59,840 Speaker 2: found out near the Great Wall? Have you ever been 549 00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:04,000 Speaker 2: to the Great Wall and maybe seeing something near there 550 00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:07,719 Speaker 2: that perhaps was this. Do you have any stories just 551 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,400 Speaker 2: in general from China and your travels or do you 552 00:34:10,440 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 2: live in China and you could tell us something about 553 00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 2: any of this? Is there more? Because everything we've read 554 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,080 Speaker 2: so far, as academic papers and just some you know, 555 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,759 Speaker 2: some online journalism about what's been going on there, we'd 556 00:34:22,800 --> 00:34:25,360 Speaker 2: love to hear a source from a like a primary 557 00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:28,640 Speaker 2: source from the area and tell us about it. If 558 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 2: you want to do that, you can find us on 559 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,759 Speaker 2: Twitter where we're Conspiracy Stuff Conspiracy Stuff show on Instagram. 560 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 2: Facebook is conspiracy Stuff and you should definitely join up 561 00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 2: with our Facebook group. Here's where it gets crazy. All 562 00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 2: you have to do is answer a question about who 563 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:46,520 Speaker 2: hosts the show, and if you're listening to this one 564 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 2: as your first episode, you need to put Matt, Ben 565 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 2: and Nol because that is the correct answer. Although we 566 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,760 Speaker 2: will we will take bag of badgers. 567 00:34:57,640 --> 00:35:03,400 Speaker 1: Sure, and I'm if I'm the I'm notoriously happy to 568 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,600 Speaker 1: let somebody in if there's something that makes me. 569 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 2: Laugh, Oh I do answer, don't tell cat. 570 00:35:08,719 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 1: Sure, And that's that's kat Riley, one of our moderators. 571 00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,839 Speaker 1: Shout out to you, Kat, Shout out to Zach and 572 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: the rest of the team. Oh yeah. Additionally, we are 573 00:35:17,600 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 1: going on tour to a city near you. You can 574 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: find details about that on our website. There's probably depending 575 00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:27,440 Speaker 1: on where you live, there's probably an ad playing about 576 00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:31,960 Speaker 1: it too. So yeah, forgive our accident redundancy. If if 577 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,200 Speaker 1: there is redundancy that exists. 578 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,000 Speaker 2: We don't need your forgiveness. This isn't this isn't redundant. 579 00:35:37,080 --> 00:35:38,320 Speaker 2: This is important, Ben. 580 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:40,600 Speaker 1: There we go. Well, you know what, Matt, You're right, 581 00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:43,280 Speaker 1: because I was all a segue for me to say. 582 00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 1: If you are a Mandarin speaking or Cantonese speaking listener, 583 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:52,239 Speaker 1: please forgive us our mispronunciations. Okay, that when I am 584 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: going to stick with Yeah, the tour thing was just 585 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: trying to get to a get to a segue there, 586 00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:59,920 Speaker 1: but speaking Oh yeah. 587 00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 2: Go stuff. They don't want you to know. Dot com 588 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 2: and click on the live shows a little link there 589 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:06,880 Speaker 2: and you will get tickets if you. 590 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:12,400 Speaker 1: Wish, yes, yes, please buy them for your friends. By 591 00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,839 Speaker 1: you buy them for your relatives. You know, if you 592 00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:18,840 Speaker 1: have relatives that you think would find this particularly interesting, 593 00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,439 Speaker 1: then then let us know it. Let us know who's going, 594 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:24,440 Speaker 1: and maybe we can give them a shout out on air. 595 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:25,959 Speaker 2: There you go. It'll be a great date. 596 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: It actually will be as being to talk to you 597 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,239 Speaker 1: about this off air, Matt. But I think we have 598 00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:33,920 Speaker 1: a couple. Yeah, I think it will actually be a 599 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 1: good date show. But the best way to find out 600 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:40,520 Speaker 1: is to join us on tour, or you know, you 601 00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:44,279 Speaker 1: could try to ask us for spoilers. I don't know 602 00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:48,200 Speaker 1: if you'll get any. As Matt said, we're on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, 603 00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: all the good ones, all this stuff, but. 604 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 2: And that's the end of this classic episode. If you 605 00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 2: have any thoughts or questions about this episode, you can 606 00:36:57,680 --> 00:36:59,800 Speaker 2: get into contact with us in a number of different 607 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:01,719 Speaker 2: ways day. One of the best is to give us 608 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,800 Speaker 2: a call. Our number is one eight three three st 609 00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 2: d WYTK. If you don't want to do that, you 610 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 2: can send us a good old fashioned email. 611 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,359 Speaker 3: We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. 612 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production 613 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, 614 00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.