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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuffy missed in History class from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: Trac B. Wilson and I'm Holly Frying. So of our

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Speaker 1: three episodes on segregation that we're doing this month, this

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Speaker 1: is the one that's probably the most familiar to the

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Speaker 1: most people. Uh. Sometimes when we do things that are

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Speaker 1: immediately familiar to folks, people feel like we've wasted their

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Speaker 1: time somehow. But talking about Brown versus Board of Education

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Speaker 1: without talking about the aftermath of it would be seriously incomplete.

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Speaker 1: So even though a lot of this is going to

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Speaker 1: be familiar to some people from classes on American history

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Speaker 1: or the American civil rights movement, it really is necessary

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Speaker 1: to talk about this part of Brown versus Board of

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Speaker 1: Education also, So our last installment on this ended after

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Speaker 1: Brown versus Boards arguments and re arguments. The case returned

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Speaker 1: to the Supreme Court for some direct shin on how

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Speaker 1: to implement the previous decision, and Chief Justice Earl Lawren

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Speaker 1: urged school systems to end segregation quote with all deliberate speed.

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Speaker 1: So states and school boards had to find a way

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Speaker 1: for the children who were attending segregated schools, which at

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Speaker 1: this point was almost fort of the school children in

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Speaker 1: the United States to attend integrated ones instead. But that

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Speaker 1: second decision, which came to be known as Brown two,

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Speaker 1: was really really just the beginning of the struggle to

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Speaker 1: end school segregation. It was a battle that was fought

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Speaker 1: all over the United States, not just in the South,

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Speaker 1: and it went on well well after what we think

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Speaker 1: of as the end of the Civil rights movement. And UH,

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Speaker 1: just as a couple of caveats from the beginning, there

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Speaker 1: are things that happened during this period that we are

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Speaker 1: not going to talk about because this is basically thirty

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Speaker 1: years of history that we're trying to fit into one episode. Uh.

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Speaker 1: We also definitely know that segregation laws targeted population besides

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Speaker 1: just African Americans, but that's really the context of what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about today. So there there were laws that

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Speaker 1: segregated Mexican children and Japanese children and Chinese children, but

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Speaker 1: we're really talking about the ones that segregated black children today.

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Speaker 1: So here's how the opinion of the Supreme Court in

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Speaker 1: Brown two, which was issued on May thirty one, began.

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Speaker 1: The Delaware case that cited as an exception, UH involved

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Speaker 1: a lower court ruling against segregation. Just the heads up there,

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Speaker 1: racial discrimination and public education is unconstitutional, and all provisions

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Speaker 1: of federal, state, or local law requiring or permitting such

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Speaker 1: discrimination must yield to this principle. The judgments below, except

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Speaker 1: that in the Delaware case, are reversed and the cases

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Speaker 1: are remanded to the district courts to take such proceedings

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Speaker 1: and enter such orders and decrees consistent with this opinion

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Speaker 1: as are necessary and proper to admit the parties to

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Speaker 1: these cases to public schools a racially non discriminatory basis

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Speaker 1: with all deliberate speed, School authorities have the primary responsibility

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Speaker 1: for elucidating, assessing, and solving the varied school local school

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Speaker 1: problems which may require solution and fully implementing the governing

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Speaker 1: constitutional principles. Courts will have to consider whether the action

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Speaker 1: of school authorities constitutes good faith implementation of the governing

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Speaker 1: constitutional principles. Later on, Chief Justice Earl Warren talked about

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Speaker 1: using the phrase with all deliberate speed rather than something

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Speaker 1: more immediate like forthwith, because there were some very very

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Speaker 1: real obstacles to schools integrating. From a practical standpoint, they

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Speaker 1: had to consider, how would school systems redistrict and how

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Speaker 1: would they make sure that these new districts were integrated,

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Speaker 1: And what would they do if faculty or staff positions

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Speaker 1: turned out to be redundant, and what if gaps appeared

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Speaker 1: that ment systems needed to hire more people. On top

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Speaker 1: of that, the court couldn't take get for granted that

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Speaker 1: school systems would operate in good faith when it came

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Speaker 1: to integration, so integration plans had to be court approved,

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Speaker 1: and that was of course going to be a time

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Speaker 1: consuming process. There was also the fact that a lot

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Speaker 1: of the schools that black students had been attending were

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Speaker 1: frankly not fit to be used. So, for example, in

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Speaker 1: Prince Edward County, Virginia, which was where one of the

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Speaker 1: brown versus Board cases had originated, the school for black

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Speaker 1: students had no restrooms at all, and it was so

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Speaker 1: overcrowded that some students were attending classes in literal shocks

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Speaker 1: outside of the building, as well as an old school bus.

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Speaker 1: So school systems were having to figure out how to

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Speaker 1: have enough space for people and facilities that actually we're

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Speaker 1: fit to be used. So, needless to say, integration was

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Speaker 1: definitely not as simple as flipping a switch and saying okay,

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Speaker 1: everyone goes to the same school now. But this idea

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Speaker 1: of deliberate speed also meant that there wasn't really a

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Speaker 1: tough timeline to follow, and there wasn't a deadline for integration,

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Speaker 1: and that gave white communities that did not want to

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Speaker 1: integrate a whole lot of leeway and time to kind

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Speaker 1: of dig in their heels. We're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: how they dug in their heels after a brief word

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Speaker 1: from a sponsor. So as schools started integrating, there were

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Speaker 1: definitely school systems that, once they were ordered to do

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Speaker 1: so by the Supreme Court, integrated and they did so

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Speaker 1: without a lot of overt incident, and to be clear,

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Speaker 1: without a lot of overt incident kind of means that

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Speaker 1: there were not massively violent protests on the school grounds.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty much standard that the black students who

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Speaker 1: started attending majority white schools routinely faced discrimination, harassment, and violence,

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Speaker 1: and not just from their peers but also from parents

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Speaker 1: and other adults. Uh The same level of harassment was

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Speaker 1: true for leaders in those school systems who had worked

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Speaker 1: toward integration. They faced the same kind of backlash from

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Speaker 1: the greater community. But in many places, resistance to brown

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Speaker 1: Versus Board was direct and overt. White parents picketed and protested,

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Speaker 1: others pulled their children out of school rather than having

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Speaker 1: them go to an integrated school. Politicians built their campaigns

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Speaker 1: around maintaining segregation. George Wallace of Alabama famously arranged his

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Speaker 1: gubernatorial race around keeping schools segregated, and in his inaugural

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Speaker 1: address announced quote segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever. Various

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Speaker 1: state governments tried to argue that the states had the

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Speaker 1: right to protect its citizens from unconstitutional actions on the

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Speaker 1: part of the federal government, and part of this argument

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Speaker 1: was the idea that, in spite of the Supreme Court's ruling,

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Speaker 1: Brown versus Board was in fact unconstitutional. Some school systems

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Speaker 1: found ways to keep up the appearance of integrating while

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Speaker 1: simultaneously maintaining segregated schools. They made virtually unpassable exams that

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Speaker 1: black students had to pass before transferring. We've seen things

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Speaker 1: like this happened before in our total rights discussion. Or

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Speaker 1: they allowed parents to choose which school their children would attend,

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Speaker 1: banking on the idea that white parents would keep their

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Speaker 1: children in white schools, which were generally better, while black

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Speaker 1: parents would keep their children in the schools that were

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Speaker 1: intended for black children, simply because they were afraid of retaliation.

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Speaker 1: School officials presented clearly unworkable integration plans to the courts,

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Speaker 1: knowing that the courts would reject these plans and that

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Speaker 1: they would have to start all over maintaining the segregation

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Speaker 1: while they were coming up with a new plan. The

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Speaker 1: endule a CP wound up having to argue court cases

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Speaker 1: all over the country, and while the Supreme Court had

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Speaker 1: remanded cases back to lower courts, these courts did not

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Speaker 1: always work in the spirit of the Supreme Court's ruling.

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Speaker 1: So when Briggs versus Elliott, which was one of the

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Speaker 1: five Brown Versus Board cases, came back up in a

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Speaker 1: lower court, the found the Supreme Court had outlawed segregation,

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Speaker 1: but it had not mandated integration. And this kind of

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Speaker 1: underhanded pushback from the lower courts was really widespread and

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Speaker 1: it went on for years. In another segregation case, a

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Speaker 1: federal district court for the Southern District of Georgia found

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Speaker 1: that it's jur jurisdiction was outside of Brown versus Sports jurisdiction,

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Speaker 1: and that was in nineteen sixty three, almost the decade

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Speaker 1: after the thing had come out in the first place.

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Speaker 1: At the federal level, nineteen senators and seventy seven House

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Speaker 1: members issued quote the Southern Manifesto, which was read into

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Speaker 1: the Congressional record on March twelfth of nineteen fifty six.

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Speaker 1: The Southern Manifesto condemned the Supreme Court's decision on Brown

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Speaker 1: versus Board, and it read, in part, the Original Constitution

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Speaker 1: does not mention education. Neither does the Fourteenth Amendment nor

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Speaker 1: any other amendment. The debates preceding the submission of the

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Speaker 1: Fourteenth Amendment clearly showed that there was no intent that

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Speaker 1: it should affect the systems of education maintained by the states.

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Speaker 1: The very Congress which proposed the amendments subsequently provided for

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Speaker 1: segregated schools in the District of Columbia. The Southern Manifesto

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Speaker 1: also included themes that became really common in the greater

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Speaker 1: context of the Civil rights movement. Another quote from it

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Speaker 1: is quote, without regard to the consent of the governed,

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Speaker 1: outside agitators are threatening immediate and revolutionary changes in our

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Speaker 1: public school systems. If done, this is certain to destroy

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Speaker 1: the system of public education in some of the states.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen fifty seven, One of the most famous moments

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Speaker 1: of the backlash against school integration took place in Little Rock, Arkansas.

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Speaker 1: The Little Rock School Board had announced its intent to

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Speaker 1: comply with Brown Versus Board on Maw nineteen fifty four,

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Speaker 1: and the Federal Court had approved its plan to do

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Speaker 1: so about a year later. It was a phased integration plan,

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Speaker 1: with full integration to be completed by nineteen sixty three.

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Speaker 1: And September of nineteen fifty seven, nine black students were

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Speaker 1: set to enroll in Central High School in Little Rock,

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Speaker 1: but the governor, Orville Faubus, sent in Arkansas National Guard

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Speaker 1: troops to keep them from doing so. The school board

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Speaker 1: asked the court for a delay in integrating the school,

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Speaker 1: and the court refused, and this led to a battle

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Speaker 1: with the governor and the Arkansas National Guard on one

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Speaker 1: side and the federal court on the other. When the

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Speaker 1: students finally entered the school on September, it was through

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Speaker 1: an angry mob of white protesters, and then a riot

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Speaker 1: broke out that sent the students back home again. President

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Speaker 1: Eisenhower deployed federal troops to try to restore order and

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Speaker 1: to protect the students. All of this played out on

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Speaker 1: national television much like when the government had sent in

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Speaker 1: troops to protect newly freed slaves and ensured that they

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Speaker 1: were granted the right to vote after the Civil War,

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Speaker 1: this federal intervention further stoked tensions in the South. The

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Speaker 1: governor's actions in this case also became part of a

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Speaker 1: whole other Supreme Court case, Cooper versus Aaron, which upheld

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Speaker 1: Brown versus Board and condemned the governor's actions. And this

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Speaker 1: example is really just one of many high profile examples

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Speaker 1: during the journey of integrating schools. Um It happened at

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Speaker 1: public schools and colleges all over the South, with troops

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Speaker 1: having to escort black students into previously all white schools.

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Speaker 1: By nineteen sixty, so at this point, five years after

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Speaker 1: Brown two, the outlook was bleak. In spite of new laws,

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Speaker 1: federal orders, and the presence of troops, schools in many

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Speaker 1: places were still segregated, and Black children, their families, and

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Speaker 1: white supporters were facing everything from harassment to violence on

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Speaker 1: a day to day basis. There were protests all over

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Speaker 1: the place, but very little actual integration was being done

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Speaker 1: in the school systems that had resisted so far. The

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court became increasingly direct and its instructions that school

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Speaker 1: systems integrate. In Prince Edward County, Virginia was back in

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Speaker 1: front of the Court again in nineteen sixty four, having

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Speaker 1: closed its schools entirely rather than integrate them. The Court

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Speaker 1: ordered the county to reopen its schools, and Justice Hugo.

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Speaker 1: Black said, quote, there has been entirely too much deliberation

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Speaker 1: and not enough speed. Still, more segregation cases got all

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Speaker 1: the way to the Supreme Court in the late nineteen sixties,

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Speaker 1: with the Court reiterating over and over the schools had

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Speaker 1: to integrate because black children had a constitutional right to

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Speaker 1: the same education as white children. And finally, and in

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Speaker 1: the later nineteen sixties, there was gradual progress, and it

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Speaker 1: ran alongside many of the other key moments in the

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Speaker 1: civil rights movement. But progress was extremely slow, and many

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Speaker 1: school systems found that as white families had moved away

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Speaker 1: from neighborhood where black people lived, in a migration known

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Speaker 1: as white flight, logical school district lines yielded schools that

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Speaker 1: were still segregated, and this led to the advent of bussing.

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Speaker 1: In ninety one, the Supreme Court heard the case of

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Speaker 1: Swan versus Charlotte Mecklenburg Board of Education on the subject

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Speaker 1: of bussing. Charlotte City schools, which overwhelmingly had black students,

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Speaker 1: had merged with Mecklenburg County students, and the students in

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Speaker 1: Mecklenburg County were more predominantly white. The school system proposed

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Speaker 1: several plans to integrate these schools, but most of them

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Speaker 1: still wound up with many black students still in majority

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Speaker 1: black schools. So in the end, the solution that they

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Speaker 1: came up with was to bus students from majority black

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Speaker 1: neighborhoods to the white schools. There was really a lot

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Speaker 1: more going on with the Supreme Court ruling, but in short,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court upheld bussing for the purposes of school integration.

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Speaker 1: Also part of this ruling was the idea that any

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Speaker 1: school that was overwhelming only one race was suspect, not

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Speaker 1: just schools where segregation had been required by specific law.

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Speaker 1: This and other court cases meant that suddenly schools in

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Speaker 1: the North, which had not specifically passed laws requiring segregated schools,

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Speaker 1: but we're operating in a de facto segregated state, now

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Speaker 1: had to integrate as well. So I think that the

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Speaker 1: the integration struggles in the South get the most attention

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Speaker 1: and a lot of civil rights classes. But then when

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Speaker 1: you get into school systems meeting school system outside of

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Speaker 1: the South needing to integrate through bussing, there was some

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Speaker 1: really similar, similar looking protests that broke out that gets

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Speaker 1: a lot less attention. As an example, in Boston, bussing

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Speaker 1: led to a full scale crisis in nineteen seventy four.

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Speaker 1: The Court had ordered that the schools to be integrated

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Speaker 1: through bussing, and all across the city black students were harassed,

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Speaker 1: spit on, and threatened as they rode the bus to school.

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Speaker 1: And this was kind of another phased integration program. So

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Speaker 1: this went on for a long time. White school students

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Speaker 1: started boycotting schools, and white families who could afford to

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Speaker 1: moved out of Boston into suburbs that were more predominantly white. Finally,

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court heard a Detroit bussing case called Milliken

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Speaker 1: versus Bradley. Detroit's urban center was overwhelmingly black, and its suburbs,

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Speaker 1: which were a separate school system, tended to be overwhelmingly white.

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Speaker 1: In order to maintain integration, students would have had to

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Speaker 1: be bussed from one school system to another. In a

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Speaker 1: five to four decision, the court ruled that bussing children

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Speaker 1: across municipal lines, when those lines had not been specifically

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Speaker 1: created to enforce segregation in the first place, was quote

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Speaker 1: wholly impermissible and outside the bounds of what Brown versus

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Speaker 1: Board had intended and as far as integration in and

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Speaker 1: so this dismantled bussing efforts and some of the most

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Speaker 1: segregated cities in the United States, because the only way

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Speaker 1: to create a school that was integrated was to literally

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Speaker 1: move students from one community into a completely different community

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Speaker 1: to go to school. Third, Good Marshal, who we talked

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Speaker 1: about in our previous episode, had at this point become

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Speaker 1: the first African American Supreme Court justice in the United States.

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Speaker 1: In his dissenting opinion, he said, quote our nation, I

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Speaker 1: fear will be ill served by the Court's refusal to

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Speaker 1: remedy separate and unequal education. For unless our children begin

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Speaker 1: to learn together, there is little hope that our people

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Speaker 1: will ever learn to live together. The practice of bussing

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Speaker 1: did continue. I know that there was bussing in my

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Speaker 1: school system that I grew up into sort of fine

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Speaker 1: tune the balance of racial mix in one school and

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Speaker 1: the other, but it didn't continue in the more extreme

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Speaker 1: way that had been proposed in Detroit. So consequently, in

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Speaker 1: a lot of places, as white families kept moving into

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Speaker 1: more predominantly white suburbs, schools slid back into being more

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Speaker 1: and more segregated as a result, and in a lot

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Speaker 1: of ways, integration remains a struggle in the United States.

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Speaker 1: As neighborhoods become overwhelmingly one race or another, the same

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Speaker 1: thing happens to the schools. So there are school systems

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Speaker 1: all over the US in which maintaining integration would involve

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Speaker 1: bussing children long distances from different school systems altogether. As

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Speaker 1: a as a side note, I was at Fernbank, which

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Speaker 1: is a science museum in Atlanta one time, and it

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Speaker 1: was during the week because I had the day off,

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Speaker 1: and a class of students came into the to the

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Speaker 1: Imax theater who watching Imax movie and it was a

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Speaker 1: black class and the teachers were also black. And I

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Speaker 1: looked at the person next to me and I was like,

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Speaker 1: is there segregation still in Atlanta? Like I was completely

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Speaker 1: floored by this because the where I grew up was

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Speaker 1: not as nearly as large as Metro Atlanta is so

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Speaker 1: the neighborhoods were not like large enough to yield an

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Speaker 1: entire school that was largely segregated. Uh. This was like

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Speaker 1: a wake up call for me as a total grown

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Speaker 1: human being. Uh, that there are still schools that are

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Speaker 1: effectively as segregated as they were in the fifties because

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Speaker 1: of how neighborhood lines run, which is contributed to by

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Speaker 1: all kinds of other socioeconomic factors. Yeah, there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of a lot of, um, like you said, a

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Speaker 1: lot of factors in the mix. And it is a

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Speaker 1: little bit startling when you see that, uh for the

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Speaker 1: first time. Well, and similarly startling is that even in

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Speaker 1: schools that aren't overwhelmingly one race or another, a lot

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Speaker 1: of classrooms become effectively segregated because African American students are

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Speaker 1: disproportionately represented in lower level classes and upper level classes

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Speaker 1: often are overwhelmingly full of white students. And this, again

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Speaker 1: is because of a number of socioeconomic factors. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: that is definitely what I saw in my own public

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Speaker 1: school uh experience also, which you know ran from the

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Speaker 1: mid eighties until the early nineties. Yeah. And there are

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Speaker 1: also some both implicit and explicit discrimination elements happening there

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Speaker 1: that create that sort of classroom level segregation. It's it's

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Speaker 1: a very complex web to try to unravel, and you

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Speaker 1: can't point to any one specific thing, but they are

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Speaker 1: all factoring and contributing. What is not the cause, and

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Speaker 1: I want to say this clearly is an inherent lack

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Speaker 1: of worth in anyone who's attending school. And as as

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Speaker 1: as we think about that for a second, let's take

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Speaker 1: another brief moment for a word from a sponsor, so

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Speaker 1: to return to Brown versus Board and kind of circle

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Speaker 1: back around to where we started, specifically in terms of

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Speaker 1: the schools that yielded those first five cases that went

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Speaker 1: before the Supreme Court. Here is what happened. Uh in Topeka, Kansas,

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Speaker 1: which was where Brown Versus Board started. The desegregation process

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Speaker 1: did start in nineteen fifty five, but in nineteen seventy nine,

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Speaker 1: one of the original attorneys, Charles Scott Jr. Sued to

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Speaker 1: have the original case reopened because the pattern of segregation,

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Speaker 1: as we just talked about before the break had re

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Speaker 1: emerged in a lot of the schools in Somerton in

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Speaker 1: Clarendon County, South Carolina, which was the focus of the

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Speaker 1: Briggs versus Elliott case. Schools were integrated in nineteen sixty

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Speaker 1: five in Prince Edward County, Virginia, which was where Davis

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Speaker 1: versus the County school Board of Prince Edward County uh started.

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Speaker 1: As we alluded to earlier, that school system closed its

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Speaker 1: schools entirely from nineteen fifty nine until nineteen sixty four

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Speaker 1: rather than integrate. Overwhelmingly, this meant that black students in

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Speaker 1: that school system had no way to receive an education.

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Speaker 1: But on the other hand, the white students wound up

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Speaker 1: attending private schools thanks to their nations from segregationists and

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Speaker 1: other parts of the South. The state of Delaware, which

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Speaker 1: is where GiB Heart at All Versus Belton at All

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Speaker 1: and GiB Heart versus Bulah had taken place, had actually

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Speaker 1: begun desegregating schools in nineteen fifty two. However, as white

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Speaker 1: families moved into exclusively white communities, a pattern of segregation

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Speaker 1: re emerged, leading to a federal court ordered bussing program

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Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six. Another case, which was part of

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Speaker 1: all this, but which we haven't talked about so far,

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Speaker 1: was Bowling versus. Sharp, and that was a case that

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Speaker 1: started in the District of Columbia, and it made its

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Speaker 1: way all the way to the Supreme Court, separately from

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Speaker 1: Brown versus Board, and before Brown versus Board, the Supreme

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Speaker 1: Court ruled unanimously in nineteen fifty two that segregation denied

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Speaker 1: black students in the District of Columbia do process, and

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Speaker 1: that's the right that's guaranteed under the Fifth Amendment to

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Speaker 1: the Constitution. Even though it had already been decided before

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Speaker 1: Brown versus Board first reached the Supreme Court, Bowling versus

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Speaker 1: Sharp was included in the rearguments that were about how

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Speaker 1: to proceed with integrating the schools. And although the Washington

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Speaker 1: d C. Schools themselves did comply with the Supreme Court's decisions,

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Speaker 1: as we've seen in so many other cases, white families

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Speaker 1: started moving out of Washington d C. By the nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 1: there were really not very many white students left in

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Speaker 1: the Washington d C schools at all. More than of

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Speaker 1: the student body in Washington, d C. Was black. Many

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Speaker 1: of the people who had been involved in these cases

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Speaker 1: wound up having to flee the states where they lived

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Speaker 1: for their own safety. Reverend J. A. Delane, the High

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Speaker 1: School principal who helped bring the first suit in Briggs

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Speaker 1: versus Elliott, fled the state for his safety after his

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Speaker 1: house was shot into and then set on fire. Barbara

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Speaker 1: Rose John's the Prince Edward County High School student who

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Speaker 1: led the strike that launched protests about the conditions at

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Speaker 1: the school for black students before Brown Versus Board fled

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Speaker 1: the state of Virginia as well. We would really be

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Speaker 1: vermiss if we did not talk about some of the

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Speaker 1: ways that the Brown Versus Board legacy played out that

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Speaker 1: were not strictly about the issue of school segregation. Even

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Speaker 1: though it sparked a huge backlash in black communities, Brown

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Speaker 1: Versus Board was overall met with a sense of joy

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Speaker 1: and vindication. There was some debate about whether it was

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Speaker 1: a good idea to force the issue, and there were

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Speaker 1: definitely people who didn't want their children to have to

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Speaker 1: attend school somewhere that they obviously were not wanted. But overall,

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Speaker 1: the nation's highest court had, in a very public way

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Speaker 1: and in what felt too many people like the first

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Speaker 1: time ever, found in favor of African Americans equal rights,

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Speaker 1: and that was caused for celebration. Although the civil rights

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Speaker 1: movement was already under way when Brown Versus Board reached

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court. The decision really helped propel the move

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Speaker 1: meant further as people built on the Supreme Court ruling

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Speaker 1: in favor of equality to launch protests and other areas

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Speaker 1: of life, such as desegregating lunch counters and buses and

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Speaker 1: bus terminals, and in protecting people's voting rights. Other monumental

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Speaker 1: moments in the civil rights movement, including the Montgomery bus boycott,

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Speaker 1: the Greensboro lunch counter sit ins, and the Freedom Rides,

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Speaker 1: all have some roots in Brown versus Board, and so

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Speaker 1: does civil rights legislation signed by President's Dwight D. Eisenhower

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Speaker 1: in n seven and Lyndon Johnson in nineteen sixty four.

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Speaker 1: So today, overwhelmingly, if you asked a typical person whether

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Speaker 1: Brown versus Board was the right decision, overwhelmingly the answer

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Speaker 1: would be yes, because school segregation was wrong and discriminatory,

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Speaker 1: and the idea that at that point the Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: would have ruled in favor of discrimination, as it did

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Speaker 1: in Plessy versus Perguson is abhorrent to a lot of people.

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Speaker 1: But then when you look at the idea of const

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Speaker 1: stitutional law, it's a whole other matter. Ron versus Board

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Speaker 1: did look at the question of how segregation related to

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Speaker 1: the Constitution. When the case was re argued, the Fourteenth

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Speaker 1: Amendment was a major focus, but ultimately the idea of

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Speaker 1: segregation as inherently discriminatory and damaging was a major major

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Speaker 1: part of the decision, and the decision had immediate direct

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Speaker 1: applicability to the lives of an overwhelming proportion of the

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Speaker 1: US population. It materially changed the way most people lived.

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Speaker 1: This set a new precedent in the world of the

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Speaker 1: Supreme Court and civil rights. There were definitely major civil

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Speaker 1: rights rulings before this and after this, but this is

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Speaker 1: really the one that changed in a huge way and

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Speaker 1: in a way that a lot of people at the

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Speaker 1: time seriously objected to. That changed the way people lived. Um,

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Speaker 1: which is why even though the decision itself at this

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Speaker 1: point most most people are like, yes, obviously we should

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Speaker 1: we should have ended segregation. Yes. Uh. The precedent for

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Speaker 1: what that meant in terms of other court cases and

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Speaker 1: how much like how big steps the court could take. Uh,

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Speaker 1: it was a starting point for a lot of debate

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Speaker 1: about that. Do you also have a little bit of

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Speaker 1: listener mail. I knew, as with last time, our listener

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Speaker 1: mail is both brief and kind of chipper because this

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Speaker 1: episode is a little bit on the longer side, and

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Speaker 1: also the material is uh not the happiest material. So

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Speaker 1: this is from Sophie, and Sophie says, Hi, Tracy and Holly,

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Speaker 1: I love your podcast, but I wanted to share a

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Speaker 1: slightly disturbing experience I had while listening to your Six

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Speaker 1: Impossible episodes. I was listening to the podcast on my

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Speaker 1: iPod and it was during the Robert the Haunted Doll section.

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Speaker 1: You had just talked about how people often experienced technical

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Speaker 1: failures around Robert and how a lot of people write

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00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:52,960
Speaker 1: him letters of apology for taking his picture without his permission.

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00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,760
Speaker 1: I'm a fairly skeptical person, so at that point I

438
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,399
Speaker 1: was thinking that the whole story sounded like urban legend.

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00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 1: When my iPod, which had a full battery, suddenly and

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00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: inexplicably died and we started. I'm not saying I suddenly

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00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: believe in ghosts, but I would like to apologize to

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00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:14,399
Speaker 1: Robert for listening to a podcast about him without his permission. Uh, Sophie,

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00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: and then Sophie says it would be awesome if we

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00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,960
Speaker 1: did an episode on the whaling ship at Essex and

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00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,439
Speaker 1: I think I responded to Sophie to say, there is

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00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 1: one in the archive, hooray, and don't really really don't.

447
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,080
Speaker 1: As I was working on that episode, I was like,

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00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 1: I don't really believe in all this thing with the

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00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 1: doll being unlucky, but I had that tiny seed of

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00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 1: doubt in the back of my mind. I'm also a

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00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 1: skeptical person, but I was getting ready to go on

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00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,600
Speaker 1: vacation and I was like, what if my vacation is

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00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 1: ruined because of Robert the Doll? So ask his permission

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00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: to do that episode, Lady. I did not. I'm sorry, Robert,

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00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 1: we're talking about you behind your back. Uh. If you

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00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: would like to write to us about this or any

457
00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: other podcast, you can for history podcast that How Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. We're also on Facebook at facebook dot

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Speaker 1: com slash miss in history and on Twitter at miss

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Speaker 1: in History. Are tumbler is miss in History dot tumbler

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Speaker 1: dot com, and or on Pinterest at Penters dot com

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00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,159
Speaker 1: slash missed in History. We have a spreadshirt store at

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Speaker 1: missin History dot spreadshirt dot com which is full of

464
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Speaker 1: t shirts and phone cases and things like that. If

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00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 1: you would like to learn more about what we talked

466
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 1: about today, come to our parent company's website, that's how

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Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com and put the word civil Rights

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Speaker 1: movement in the search bar, and you'll find how the

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00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: civil rights movement worked. If you would like to come

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00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: to our website, you can find every episode we've ever done,

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00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: including the Whaleship Essex, and you can include You can

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00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,479
Speaker 1: find show notes for everything Holly and I have worked on. Uh.

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00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,080
Speaker 1: You can also find a blog post about how to

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00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: find old episode you're interested in in the archive so

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Speaker 1: that you don't have to wait on Holly and Me

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Speaker 1: to potentially forget to answer your email. So you can

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Speaker 1: do all that and a whole lot more at how

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Speaker 1: stuff works dot com and missed in History dot com.

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00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: For more on this and thousands of other topics, is

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Speaker 1: it how stuff works dot com. M