1
00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:08,160
Speaker 1: Hi, guys, Nancy Grace here, welcome back to Killers amongst Us,

2
00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:14,319
Speaker 1: the production of iHeart Media and Crime Online. Do you

3
00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:17,480
Speaker 1: ever pull up at a red light and look around

4
00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,599
Speaker 1: at the cars beside you also waiting and wonder who

5
00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:27,040
Speaker 1: are they? Or walk through a mall as people pass you,

6
00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:29,400
Speaker 1: you may or may not catch their eyes and you

7
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:35,000
Speaker 1: wonder who are these people? I'm Nancy Grace, thank you

8
00:00:35,040 --> 00:00:39,279
Speaker 1: for being with us and joining us Killers amongst Us?

9
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: What happened to Dawn? Thence? Beautiful, young, healthy and a fun,

10
00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:57,360
Speaker 1: exciting marriage, just starting off a brand new hot restaurant,

11
00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,279
Speaker 1: the place to be there in the California community where

12
00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:07,280
Speaker 1: they relocated. Then suddenly she disappears. Take a listen. As

13
00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,160
Speaker 1: the investigation continues, cops talk to Don's friends. Or she

14
00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 1: unhappy lately or depressed more exhausted. It's a tough business.

15
00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 1: Did she ever mentioned like want to leave or leaving

16
00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:24,160
Speaker 1: all the time? So you feel it's unusual for disappealing? Yeah,

17
00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,959
Speaker 1: unusual but understandable. Where do you think she might be?

18
00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,880
Speaker 1: I'm hoping a ski lodge with the boy's toy friends.

19
00:01:32,400 --> 00:01:36,440
Speaker 1: Basically back up what David says. They're really sure that

20
00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:39,120
Speaker 1: she took off on her own, that she's somewhere with

21
00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:43,080
Speaker 1: a margarita on hand and enjoying herself, and she'll come

22
00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:46,240
Speaker 1: back when she's ready. If Dawn really has taken a

23
00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,240
Speaker 1: trip somewhere and police should be able to track her,

24
00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,120
Speaker 1: they run her credit card, see there's any credit card history.

25
00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,880
Speaker 1: Investigators also check US customs to see if maybe Don

26
00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:57,880
Speaker 1: had taken a flight out of town. There was no

27
00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,880
Speaker 1: sign of Donna. Hearing our friend Bill Graves, I read

28
00:02:00,920 --> 00:02:04,080
Speaker 1: the perfect murder. So did she just take off for

29
00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:10,080
Speaker 1: the beach? Is she's somewhere right now enjoying an awesome margarita? Uh?

30
00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:12,720
Speaker 1: Take a listen to what we learned from a friend

31
00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,280
Speaker 1: named Monica. Finally, a friend named Monica comes to police

32
00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,799
Speaker 1: with a real clue. Hi, what can we do for you?

33
00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,560
Speaker 1: My husband and I have been friends with David and

34
00:02:21,600 --> 00:02:26,919
Speaker 1: Don since they got here. We're regulars at the restaurant. Anyway,

35
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,600
Speaker 1: you know that she's disappeared. But I actually just got

36
00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:33,280
Speaker 1: a test from her. What does it say? It says,

37
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:39,480
Speaker 1: I'm okay, I'm in Florida. I'm starting over Pixie. Pixie

38
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,919
Speaker 1: which is the nickname that David gave on that text message.

39
00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,800
Speaker 1: And of itself would explain where Don was and it

40
00:02:48,960 --> 00:02:52,680
Speaker 1: should relieve the worry from her friends. So she text

41
00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:58,000
Speaker 1: a friend that she's quote starting over. But of course

42
00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,000
Speaker 1: the first place you start with any missing person investigation

43
00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,160
Speaker 1: is talking to the spouse. Here's day Matt crime online

44
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:08,200
Speaker 1: dot com. The investigation into Don Vienne's disappearance began weeks

45
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,240
Speaker 1: after she was last seen. Her sister, Dana Pappen, and

46
00:03:11,320 --> 00:03:14,120
Speaker 1: friends went to the police on November eighteenth, two thousand

47
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,079
Speaker 1: and nine to report her missing. Police talk to Don's husband,

48
00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:21,080
Speaker 1: David Vienn's. He tells detectives that on October eighteenth, he

49
00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:24,040
Speaker 1: argued with his wife about her excessive drinking. He said

50
00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,040
Speaker 1: that earlier in the day they'd gone to eat at

51
00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:28,520
Speaker 1: California Pizza Kitchen, and that he dropped her off at

52
00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,840
Speaker 1: home and returned to work. When he got home from

53
00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:33,800
Speaker 1: work that night, Vienns tells police that Don wasn't home,

54
00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:36,720
Speaker 1: says he takes an ambient goes to bed. He also

55
00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,520
Speaker 1: says Don wasn't home the next day. Ann Vienns tells

56
00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:41,960
Speaker 1: police that he texted and called her a number of times.

57
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,640
Speaker 1: Police ask why he didn't contact police. Vienne says that

58
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:48,440
Speaker 1: maybe a week or two after he got a text

59
00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 1: message from her saying she was okay, and then she

60
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:52,800
Speaker 1: was with a friend. Vienn says that he talked to

61
00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,640
Speaker 1: Don on the phone and that she came home on

62
00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:57,880
Speaker 1: October twenty fifth, begging him to leave Lomita and run

63
00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:00,560
Speaker 1: away to the mountains. David Vienn's claims he told her

64
00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:03,440
Speaker 1: to check into rehab in the next day she was gone.

65
00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:09,280
Speaker 1: Where is Dawn Thens Joining me an all star panel,

66
00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,680
Speaker 1: first of all a crime reporter or Daily Breeze at

67
00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,960
Speaker 1: the time, now freelance journalist. Larry Altman, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville

68
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:21,479
Speaker 1: State University, author Blood Beneath My Feet, Star Poisonous Liaisons

69
00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,640
Speaker 1: on the True Crime Network. Joseph Scott Morgan, former police

70
00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,920
Speaker 1: Chief John's Creek twenty five years on the force, now

71
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:33,800
Speaker 1: PI and polygrapher Chris Buyers at Chris Buyer's Investigations and

72
00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:40,000
Speaker 1: polygraph dot com. Renowned psychologist at junct professor Columbia University At.

73
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:45,040
Speaker 1: Debbie Joffe Ellis dot com. Former prosecutor now defense attorney

74
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:49,039
Speaker 1: Joining me out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Darryl Cohen and

75
00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:54,760
Speaker 1: special guests Joining me. The Brother and sister of Dawn Vins,

76
00:04:55,600 --> 00:05:00,240
Speaker 1: David and Dana Pappen. David and Dana, especially you and

77
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,400
Speaker 1: all our guests, thank you for being with us when

78
00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 1: you learned Dana that Dawn, according to the husband, had

79
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:13,039
Speaker 1: been drinking a lot. Were you surprised? No, I wasn't surprised.

80
00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,400
Speaker 1: To David Pappen, did she have Was she having a

81
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:22,719
Speaker 1: drinking problem? I definitely think the restaurant business has something

82
00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,560
Speaker 1: to do that, you know, I think our heredity has

83
00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,520
Speaker 1: something to do with that. It was, you know, always

84
00:05:29,520 --> 00:05:34,680
Speaker 1: around growing up. She definitely had a drinking problem. Her

85
00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:40,360
Speaker 1: and I discussed a numerous times, but yeah, she definitely did.

86
00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,039
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about that. You said hereditary. Why did you

87
00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:47,680
Speaker 1: say that, David? You know, growing up, you know, growing

88
00:05:47,760 --> 00:05:50,720
Speaker 1: up in the eighties, you know our family, you know

89
00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,320
Speaker 1: we drank, you know, well, not us then, but you

90
00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:59,560
Speaker 1: know the haunts and uncles, everybody having a good time

91
00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,520
Speaker 1: at Christmas parties and Da da Da Da da. But

92
00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:07,560
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I personally, you know, had a

93
00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:12,760
Speaker 1: drinking problem in my twenties. M Fortunately, M I stopped

94
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,880
Speaker 1: in my late twenties and haven't had a drink in

95
00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,840
Speaker 1: a number of years. But I definitely feel like there's

96
00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:23,760
Speaker 1: something in the bones of the pappens that that you

97
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:27,520
Speaker 1: know that you know, we like that fun. I hear

98
00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:30,880
Speaker 1: you in the background while you in Diana. You know, David,

99
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,279
Speaker 1: Dre We have a big family and we had lots

100
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,719
Speaker 1: of get togethers growing up, and it was always a

101
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,280
Speaker 1: part of it. You know, there's numerous relatives who have

102
00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:43,360
Speaker 1: high drinking problems who no longer drink. You know, um

103
00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,559
Speaker 1: an aunt of ours. We find out later in life

104
00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,599
Speaker 1: that Don would hang out with her when she was

105
00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 1: a teenager at a local bar m So it was

106
00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:59,080
Speaker 1: just something that we were exposed to early on. And

107
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:02,200
Speaker 1: I think also for Don in the late in the

108
00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:07,239
Speaker 1: last few years, I noticed that she wasn't ever drunk,

109
00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:11,960
Speaker 1: but she was constantly drinking. So it became a way

110
00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:16,040
Speaker 1: to stay balanced and normal, not necessarily to be drunk,

111
00:07:16,680 --> 00:07:19,840
Speaker 1: if that makes sense, but it was a need that

112
00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:22,880
Speaker 1: needed to be filled. What is that called to doctor

113
00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,640
Speaker 1: Debbie Joffey Ellis Psychologists Joining me at Junk Professor Columbia

114
00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,920
Speaker 1: at Debbie Joffe Ellis dot com. Where you may not

115
00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,760
Speaker 1: be drunk, but you always have a drink in your hand,

116
00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,320
Speaker 1: You're always drinking well, it sounds like addiction to me.

117
00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:41,240
Speaker 1: You know that the body will crave what it's become

118
00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:45,600
Speaker 1: used to it, it becomes a habit, and then it

119
00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:51,400
Speaker 1: sometimes takes more of the substance to maintain the equanimity

120
00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:55,640
Speaker 1: that the person temporarily feels as the results of ingesting

121
00:07:55,680 --> 00:08:00,400
Speaker 1: whatever substance. Exactly what about it, Joe Scott Morgan jump in, Yeah,

122
00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 1: there's I think that in order to maintain kind of

123
00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,720
Speaker 1: kind of a balance in life, this dependency develops over

124
00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:13,440
Speaker 1: a period of time. And also I think that witnessing

125
00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,800
Speaker 1: generations before you engaging in the same behavior to kind

126
00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,520
Speaker 1: of cope with what's going on, particularly in times of

127
00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:23,600
Speaker 1: high stress, it's something that's that is part of a

128
00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,600
Speaker 1: learned behavior. I don't know. Some people put forth the

129
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,520
Speaker 1: idea that there's a genetic predisposition to it, maybe to

130
00:08:30,600 --> 00:08:34,679
Speaker 1: addictive behavior, but I think that you know this learning,

131
00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,000
Speaker 1: you know, you're seeing how to cope with these stresses.

132
00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:40,320
Speaker 1: And man, I've got family members that own restaurants and

133
00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 1: it is a high pressure environment to Larry Altman joining me.

134
00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:47,199
Speaker 1: Former crime reporter for The Daily Breeze at the time

135
00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:51,840
Speaker 1: of her disappearance, currently freelance journalist Larry. I just wonder

136
00:08:52,400 --> 00:08:57,400
Speaker 1: if her drinking didn't have something to do with the

137
00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 1: way the case was treated. It was almost just like

138
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:03,599
Speaker 1: a you know, a throwaway as she's out having a

139
00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 1: margarita somewhere. Well, it may have been. And I think

140
00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,160
Speaker 1: what her husband told the police that you know, he

141
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,000
Speaker 1: wanted her to go to rehab, she didn't want to go,

142
00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,880
Speaker 1: and you know, so she took off and I think

143
00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:25,560
Speaker 1: they took that face value. Guys, we were talking about

144
00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:30,200
Speaker 1: the disappearance of a beautiful young woman don Vin's with

145
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:33,560
Speaker 1: her world in front of her. They had just starting

146
00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: she and her husband David, a hot new restaurant. It

147
00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:40,079
Speaker 1: was the place to be. There's one in every town

148
00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,319
Speaker 1: that that's the place everybody seems to want to go.

149
00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:50,520
Speaker 1: But I want you to take a listen to reporting

150
00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,840
Speaker 1: on HLN, Deborah. The recent information that we got over

151
00:09:55,960 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 1: this past weekend is that after our show Friday night,

152
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,440
Speaker 1: cops have now gone out and started re interviewing people,

153
00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,120
Speaker 1: interviewing friends. We also learned about the possessions being thrown

154
00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,960
Speaker 1: in a dumpster, the jeep being towed away almost immediately

155
00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 1: after she goes missing. About a week and a half later, Nancy.

156
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:21,199
Speaker 1: After she disappeared, a friend of hers saw her husband's

157
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:26,240
Speaker 1: daughter and his new girlfriend taking her stuff. They were

158
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,600
Speaker 1: in a car. They drove to the restaurant, took stuff

159
00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,040
Speaker 1: out of the car, and started throwing things into the

160
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,959
Speaker 1: dumpster allegedly. You know, there was a few things they

161
00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:36,400
Speaker 1: decided to keep, but most of the things were just

162
00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,360
Speaker 1: thrown away. Okay, so you're telling me that they basically

163
00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:45,200
Speaker 1: went shopping and the missing woman's closet. They kept some

164
00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:49,280
Speaker 1: of her belongings for themselves. I have no idea if

165
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:52,120
Speaker 1: it was for themselves, but they certainly did keep some things.

166
00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:56,400
Speaker 1: What I mean, She's only being gone a couple of weeks,

167
00:10:56,440 --> 00:11:03,760
Speaker 1: not even two weeks, and you see Dawn Van's husband,

168
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:11,720
Speaker 1: daughter and his what new girlfriend throwing her stuff away.

169
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,240
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friends over at Perfect Murder.

170
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,400
Speaker 1: In the Missing person's case of Don Van's detectives now

171
00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:22,360
Speaker 1: suspect David's new girlfriend, Nancy, who replaced down at the restaurant.

172
00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:25,000
Speaker 1: If someone's going to go into rehab and come home,

173
00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,360
Speaker 1: you don't throw away her close you put in storage.

174
00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:30,360
Speaker 1: Dave was not ashamed of the relationship, and it was

175
00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,199
Speaker 1: just it was just part of life when they talked

176
00:11:34,240 --> 00:11:37,120
Speaker 1: to the hostess to confront her. You know he has

177
00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 1: a wife, of course, Tina, she left them. Is that

178
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:43,760
Speaker 1: why you threw her clothes in the dumpster? Helper, Let's

179
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:49,400
Speaker 1: see him a little crazy? Tennis investigators are taken aback

180
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:54,560
Speaker 1: themselves by her candor. But you can't arrest someone for

181
00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,440
Speaker 1: being the jealous type. And you can't put someone behind

182
00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:00,840
Speaker 1: bars for dating a missing woman's husband. Well they're aren't

183
00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:03,680
Speaker 1: about that, But I'm curious about so many things. To

184
00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,720
Speaker 1: Larry All, i'mand crime reporter for Daily Breeze at the time.

185
00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:13,319
Speaker 1: Now freelance journalist, Larry, You're reporting alerted me about the case.

186
00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:17,600
Speaker 1: Why did it take our reports to heat up the

187
00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,880
Speaker 1: cops investigation? Well, that's that's where I say. You know,

188
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,120
Speaker 1: I didn't believe they were doing a lot, And I

189
00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:28,120
Speaker 1: think all of the publicity that I provided initially and

190
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:32,120
Speaker 1: then then that you did, made them have to do something.

191
00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,600
Speaker 1: And there was a point along the way where I

192
00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:40,120
Speaker 1: went into the restaurant and I spoke to David, and

193
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,760
Speaker 1: I think that what she said and the way he

194
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:49,319
Speaker 1: spoke of Dawn that all led to the police realizing

195
00:12:49,400 --> 00:12:51,600
Speaker 1: they have to do something and then you did the

196
00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,959
Speaker 1: story and and that's when it all really came together. Yeah,

197
00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,319
Speaker 1: I'm thinking about the girlfriends saying that she was jealous,

198
00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:02,560
Speaker 1: Daryl Cohen, So many times have you had a case

199
00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:08,480
Speaker 1: where a jealous husband throws out the wife's stuff or

200
00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:12,040
Speaker 1: a jealous wife takes all the husband's clothes and burns

201
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,760
Speaker 1: them in the front yard. That's not that unusual. Actually,

202
00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,600
Speaker 1: it's not unusual at all. It reminds me of the

203
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,200
Speaker 1: husband who takes off and the wife is unhappy, and

204
00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 1: the husband says, please have the porch painted before I

205
00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:28,920
Speaker 1: come back, and the wife has his Porsche painted by

206
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:33,079
Speaker 1: a house painter. Yeah, vindictiveness is not at all unusual.

207
00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:36,080
Speaker 1: It's I'm shocked and that I'm going to be vindictive,

208
00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:40,240
Speaker 1: and vindictiveness means throwing out his stuff, throwing out her stuff,

209
00:13:40,640 --> 00:13:44,520
Speaker 1: destroying his life, destroying her life. And now social media

210
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,120
Speaker 1: can do the same thing. So, yeah, Nancy, it's not

211
00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,760
Speaker 1: at all unusual. It's unfortunately, very sad, but it's very commonplace. Yeah.

212
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:55,800
Speaker 1: Chief Buyers with Me, Chief Foremen, Chief of Police, John's Creek,

213
00:13:55,880 --> 00:14:00,440
Speaker 1: Chris Buyers, now PI and polygrapher Chief. I've seen it

214
00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 1: a million times. Well, not a million a thousand, where

215
00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,800
Speaker 1: jealous girlfriend, jealous boyfriend or spouse will slit somebody's tires,

216
00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:14,920
Speaker 1: will burn up their clothes, will I don't know, let

217
00:14:14,920 --> 00:14:18,160
Speaker 1: their dog go in the park and leave it, things

218
00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:20,600
Speaker 1: of that nature. I know you had to see that

219
00:14:20,680 --> 00:14:23,080
Speaker 1: on the four. Oh. Absolutely. I can remember when I

220
00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 1: was very young police officer getting called to a fire

221
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:29,000
Speaker 1: in a house in a very nice neighborhood here in

222
00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,120
Speaker 1: Metro Atlanta and got there and there was a new

223
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,240
Speaker 1: girlfriend having a bonfire with the ex wife scoff in

224
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:39,520
Speaker 1: the front yard. So yeah, it definitely happens. Well, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait,

225
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,680
Speaker 1: stop right there, I gotta hear that whole thing. Just

226
00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:44,440
Speaker 1: what happened. I got to the scene and there was

227
00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,960
Speaker 1: a pretty good fire burning in the front yard and

228
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 1: started looking for stuff, and it was a lady's clothing,

229
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:54,280
Speaker 1: purses and all type of other things. And so I

230
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,360
Speaker 1: actually wound up charging the girlfriend with arson because she

231
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: was destroying her stuff. But yeah, this happens all the time. Okay,

232
00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:08,400
Speaker 1: now you've got that against this dichotomy, y'all. Remember the

233
00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 1: name Drew Peterson, former police officer convicted of killing third

234
00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:18,240
Speaker 1: wife Kathleen Savio. Her body was found looked like she

235
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:21,880
Speaker 1: slipped in the bathtub. Oh whoops, except her whole body

236
00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:23,520
Speaker 1: was covered in bruises. She would have had to have

237
00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:28,040
Speaker 1: a fight with a soap dish. Plus, plus the bathtub

238
00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:34,920
Speaker 1: was bone dry. M Then the next wife, Stacy Peterson,

239
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:38,600
Speaker 1: she goes missing. Her body has never been found, although

240
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,240
Speaker 1: I've got a pretty good idea where I think it is. Anyway,

241
00:15:43,080 --> 00:15:49,840
Speaker 1: turns out Drew Officer Drew Peterson had gone through Stacy's

242
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:55,600
Speaker 1: closet and take it out, her fur coat, lingerie bikinis,

243
00:15:56,440 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 1: and was giving it to his new girlfriends, Like why

244
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 1: would I want to wear somebody else's underwear? I just Okay,

245
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:05,240
Speaker 1: that's a whole nother can of ORMs that we will

246
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 1: not go into right now. But the point is, you've

247
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,960
Speaker 1: got this innocent, Well, there's no innocent burning somebody's clothes

248
00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,520
Speaker 1: in the front yard, but burning someone's clothes out of

249
00:16:16,560 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 1: spite and then giving away somebody's clothes because you know

250
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: they're never coming back to get their stuff. So cops

251
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 1: are stuck here, they've got no evidence, but they see

252
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 1: the girlfriend, and they see David Van's daughter with a

253
00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:43,080
Speaker 1: girlfriend throwing out Dawn's stuff. What about that, Dana. You've

254
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:47,200
Speaker 1: got the daughter, the step daughter in on the act. Yeah,

255
00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 1: and that is something that's been very heartbreaking for me.

256
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,320
Speaker 1: When information came out later that she arrives to California

257
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,160
Speaker 1: almost immediately after my sister went missing, it was the

258
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,640
Speaker 1: heartbreaking to me. Though she participated. To Larry Altman, crime

259
00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,679
Speaker 1: reporter Daily Breeze at the time, currently freelance journalist, Larry,

260
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,800
Speaker 1: that's kind of tough to take. Not only did they

261
00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:15,119
Speaker 1: throw out don stuff, clean out her place, and I

262
00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:19,040
Speaker 1: could see the husband being angry and his daughter piling

263
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 1: on because Daddy's upset, the girlfriend piling on because she's jealous,

264
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,840
Speaker 1: but they also kept articles of clothing. Was that for themselves? Well? Yes,

265
00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:32,760
Speaker 1: but I think that if you talk about the new girlfriend,

266
00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,520
Speaker 1: Don had just left and so she was throwing out

267
00:17:37,800 --> 00:17:40,240
Speaker 1: the belongings that they didn't need anymore. Let's go to

268
00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:44,040
Speaker 1: our cut twenty seven. Guys. Take a listen. He says

269
00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:47,639
Speaker 1: he expects her to come back after ski season. I

270
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:50,679
Speaker 1: believe is what he said. But then he suddenly moves

271
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:54,480
Speaker 1: his girlfriend in and props her up as the restaurant host.

272
00:17:54,560 --> 00:18:01,040
Speaker 1: Is where your sister worked? Yeah, Yeah, how quickly did

273
00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:08,960
Speaker 1: that happen? Very quickly? Right, too quickly? A month, a week,

274
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:16,200
Speaker 1: a day. I was told it was within a week

275
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,840
Speaker 1: or two that they were seeing together and there was

276
00:18:19,880 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 1: suspicion that something was going on. Wow, something was going on,

277
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:28,320
Speaker 1: all right, he moved her in, you know, some rebound.

278
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:33,359
Speaker 1: It took him two weeks before he quote fired his wife.

279
00:18:33,359 --> 00:18:35,080
Speaker 1: I don't know how you fire your wife in the

280
00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:40,000
Speaker 1: restaurant you're running together, but he fires Dawn, tells her

281
00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:43,640
Speaker 1: to go to rehab. She takes off, and within two

282
00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,919
Speaker 1: weeks he's replaced her as the glamorous hostess at the

283
00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:53,080
Speaker 1: restaurant and moved the lover into the home. Now that's

284
00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:57,119
Speaker 1: quite the rebound, Dana Pappen, were you surprised at the

285
00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:03,159
Speaker 1: quickness that he had any girlfriend? Oh? No, unfortunately not.

286
00:19:03,680 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 1: I really, I really wasn't, David. Were you surprised that

287
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:13,920
Speaker 1: he he quote fired Dawn and already had a girlfriend? No, no, no, no,

288
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:19,399
Speaker 1: I wasn't. I wasn't surprised at all what happened to

289
00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,840
Speaker 1: Dawn Van's We now know that the husband is saying

290
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,159
Speaker 1: she took off a rehab, But then he also said

291
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:31,320
Speaker 1: Larry Altman he expected her to come back after ski season.

292
00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 1: What does rehab have to do with ski season? Well,

293
00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,719
Speaker 1: a lot of time passed and we got through the winter,

294
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,560
Speaker 1: and uh, like I said, I went into the restaurant

295
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 1: to confront him one day and I said, where is

296
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:52,199
Speaker 1: your wife? And he he blamed it her disappearance on

297
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,560
Speaker 1: the alcohol and said he had expected her to come

298
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 1: back after the ski season, that she probably had been

299
00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:04,600
Speaker 1: in the mountains, and so that was his explanation. And

300
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:08,680
Speaker 1: when I asked him if you know he was concerned

301
00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:12,000
Speaker 1: about her, he said he just wanted her to be safe.

302
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:17,320
Speaker 1: And I asked him, do you love your wife? And

303
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 1: he said, I loved my wife. You know, I want

304
00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:29,960
Speaker 1: to go to doctor Debbie Joffe Ellis. If it were

305
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,720
Speaker 1: me and my husband was missing, I'd be laying on

306
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: the front of the courthouse steps begging for help. But

307
00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,560
Speaker 1: isn't it true, Larry Altman, that v's basically kitch out

308
00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:46,080
Speaker 1: of the restaurant when you came asking questions? Yes, I

309
00:20:46,160 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 1: knew when I walked in there that you know, I

310
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,280
Speaker 1: had maybe two minutes. There was a lot of stuff

311
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: going on in there too. He was renovating the place

312
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:01,840
Speaker 1: they were expanding into the next business to make the

313
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,679
Speaker 1: restaurant larger, and there was construction going on and plumbing,

314
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,200
Speaker 1: and I walked in there, and you know, I'm only

315
00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:12,119
Speaker 1: five foot four, Nancy, and he's a bigger man than me,

316
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,879
Speaker 1: and I I'm alone, and I just I got what

317
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,639
Speaker 1: questions I could get out quickly and and went on

318
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:24,359
Speaker 1: my way. So, you know, it was I was a

319
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:27,360
Speaker 1: little nervous doing it, but I just felt that day

320
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,400
Speaker 1: like something has to happen here. Well, I mean, first

321
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,080
Speaker 1: of all, he's got to decide did she go to

322
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:35,200
Speaker 1: ski the ski season or did she go to rehab?

323
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,240
Speaker 1: But you know, I can understand if she wants out,

324
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:43,399
Speaker 1: she leaves no word left behind. But she didn't call David,

325
00:21:43,760 --> 00:21:48,159
Speaker 1: Dana or Derek to Dana pappened? Did you try to

326
00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: reach her? I did try to call. I knew it

327
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: was a feudal effort, but I did make that effort.

328
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 1: Why do you say you knew it was feudial. I

329
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:01,159
Speaker 1: was a gut feeling, I suppose was the amount of

330
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,960
Speaker 1: time that had passed by the time that I was notified.

331
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,439
Speaker 1: After speaking to other family members. You know, Mike got

332
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 1: was telling me that that's something bad had happened. What

333
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,360
Speaker 1: about it? David? Did you try to reach her? Um?

334
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: I did? I did? Um? You know, I called, I texted,

335
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,359
Speaker 1: you know, did what I could? I talked to David. Um.

336
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:26,760
Speaker 1: You know he told me, you know, she left. He's like,

337
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: she finally she finally did it. And you know he uh,

338
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,080
Speaker 1: you know, he was seeming pretty broken up about it

339
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 1: when I when I confronted David, it was in March

340
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,280
Speaker 1: of twenty ten, so about six months later. He broke

341
00:22:44,320 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: down in tears, which for me was something I'd never seen,

342
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: and he said, you know, I had nothing to do

343
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 1: with it. To dactor Debbie Joffey Ellis. Um. It has

344
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 1: been argued a million times in court and other places

345
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:04,920
Speaker 1: that there is no playbook for grief or anger or

346
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,840
Speaker 1: how people at when their wife walks out on them.

347
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,640
Speaker 1: What do you make of that? Well, I agree each

348
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:17,240
Speaker 1: one of the scrieves in different ways. And if David

349
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 1: and Dawn had been having issues in their relationship, maybe

350
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 1: he wasn't grieving at her departure. Clearly, since he had

351
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:31,760
Speaker 1: a girlfriend, he had moved on, so there's no evidence

352
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 1: he was grieving, nor that it necessarily meant that there

353
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:41,520
Speaker 1: was anything sinister going on, Well, you're right about that.

354
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:48,680
Speaker 1: The case goes dead. Listen, this case late dormant until

355
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: we reported on it, and then suddenly Corps A point

356
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,480
Speaker 1: a brand new investigative team and start reinvestigating the case.

357
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: And now suddenly they've dug out of the bottom of

358
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,560
Speaker 1: the husband's restaurant. Right, Nancy Well on October eighteenth, two

359
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 1: thousand and nine, is the last time anybody saw Don Vian's.

360
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:08,920
Speaker 1: Her husband said that he actually fired her. They gotten

361
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,960
Speaker 1: an argument. Whoa, yeah, the husband fires his wife from

362
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 1: the family restaurant. Okay, go ahead, right right. Her friends

363
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 1: claimed that he fired her that day. He says she

364
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,080
Speaker 1: just walked away, took a Louis Vatton bag with her.

365
00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 1: That was the last time he saw her. So, what

366
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,920
Speaker 1: happened to Larry Oltman? You told me that there was

367
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 1: a lot of construction going on at the restaurant. Now

368
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: I find out the cops go in and dig up

369
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:39,320
Speaker 1: the floor. What happened exactly, Well, the police suspected that

370
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,880
Speaker 1: Don's remained might be in the concrete in that restaurant.

371
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: It had gone under a lot of myself. I saw

372
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,359
Speaker 1: the new concrete, I saw workers doing things. When I

373
00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:58,679
Speaker 1: had gone in there and there was a chance that

374
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 1: she had been buried in there, and so they took

375
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:06,520
Speaker 1: jackhammers and they just destroyed that place looking for her.

376
00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:10,879
Speaker 1: But as it turns out, Dawn as not in the

377
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 1: cement in the restaurant, they found nothing. But in an

378
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,000
Speaker 1: unusual twist, Listen, Larry Altman had the big scoop last

379
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:22,119
Speaker 1: week when he reported that blood had been found in

380
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: the couple's home. The husband and his new girlfriend had

381
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: moved out. Police went in with luminol. They found blood

382
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,320
Speaker 1: spatter in the house. That was what kind of got

383
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,720
Speaker 1: this whole new bit of activity going. And as Larry explained,

384
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: there's been this massive search the past two days trying

385
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 1: to figure out if Dawn's remains were entombed in that restaurant. Okay,

386
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 1: back to Larry Altman, who broke the story about blood

387
00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: spatter being found around the family home. You know, Larry again,

388
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: you just can't put a price tag on a good

389
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 1: cleaning service. These two, the husband and the girlfriend move out,

390
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 1: Cops go in, I believe you said under the gall

391
00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: they might rent the place, and they do investigative work

392
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 1: and find blood spatter throughout the home. Microscopic blood spattered

393
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: that the husband obviously did not see. Wow, that's some

394
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: good police weren't to former police chief of John's Creek,

395
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:22,520
Speaker 1: Chris Buyers. They go in pretending as if they're going

396
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: to rent the home. Now, here's the legal aspect of that.

397
00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: Nobody was living there. It's not like they invaded a

398
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: private individual's home and start testing with luminol. The place

399
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 1: was up for rent, so they act like they're interested

400
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:43,040
Speaker 1: and they go in and test and find blood spattered

401
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 1: with luminol. That's a pretty good police work, Chris Buyers. Yeah,

402
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 1: it's great. I mean, as long as you have a

403
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: legal right to be standing where you are, any evidence

404
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: that you obtain is admissible. So yeah, that's great, great

405
00:26:55,240 --> 00:27:02,160
Speaker 1: investigative work. Hey, Nancy, this is David so. Detective Rodriguez

406
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: I believe was the detective in charge. He actually him

407
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: and his partner flew from California to Florida to meet

408
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:18,920
Speaker 1: with my father and myself and he told us all

409
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: of this, and then he said, we're going to call

410
00:27:23,359 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: the Daily Breeze and put this in a newspaper. So

411
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: he actually pre warned the family what they were doing. Wow,

412
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: you know, to you Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, jacksonvill

413
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,760
Speaker 1: State University and star of a new hit series Poisous

414
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: Liaisons on True Crime Network. Jose Scott explained how luminol works. Well,

415
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,640
Speaker 1: Luminol is what referred to as a re agent. And

416
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: so let's say, for instance, that someone has wiped away

417
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 1: a surface where we suspect there may have been bloodstack

418
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 1: that occurred. Well, what's blood loaded with. Well, the one

419
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: reactive agent that it's our element that it's loaded with

420
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: is iron. You know, think about it. How many times

421
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,199
Speaker 1: do people tell you when you're a kid, eat your

422
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:16,960
Speaker 1: vegetables you need to iron. Well, that iron is actually

423
00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:20,200
Speaker 1: a big clue because that gives us an indication that

424
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,479
Speaker 1: blood was present. So that reagent reacts with that iron.

425
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:28,359
Speaker 1: And you know, it's important what you said, because microscopically,

426
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 1: you might not be aware that, for instance, there was

427
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 1: some blood stain there. Say, for instance, you've left some

428
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: remnant behind, maybe you try to wipe it up. Listen,

429
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: you're never gonna get everything up. So when luminol is

430
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: applied and it begins to react with that blood with

431
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:52,640
Speaker 1: that iron, it luminesces. Hence the term, and what does

432
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 1: that allow us to do well. We can photographic, We

433
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: can photograph that area. It lumines is blue. It's quite

434
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: remarkable if you've never seen it. And it gives us

435
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 1: an indication as to the dynamics of the stain itself.

436
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:10,120
Speaker 1: Was it just passively dripped or was it sprayed? Wow,

437
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,720
Speaker 1: so much to determine from blood found in the home

438
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:18,680
Speaker 1: where the husband, David Vin's and the girlfriend move out.

439
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 1: But wait a minute, wait a minute, don't get too excited. Listen,

440
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 1: the excitement is short lived. Not good. What it was?

441
00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,239
Speaker 1: The lab the results for inconclusive. There wasn't enough there

442
00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: for any DNA or any analysis at all. The kid.

443
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: It means now what, let's be true to follow again,

444
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: Maybe we missed something. They start going over the cell

445
00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,880
Speaker 1: phone records again, looking at all the text messages that

446
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,240
Speaker 1: she sent out, Hey, that have a little jack dropped off?

447
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: Didn't it have a note? Here's the new thank you? Wow? What?

448
00:29:57,800 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: Thank you? Look this well? God pixie? Yes? And then

449
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: old Dawn send she spells a pixie and the text

450
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: stet Monica. Did she spells a pixy? So who sent

451
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:21,520
Speaker 1: the text message to Monica? And suddenly investigators get that

452
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:25,240
Speaker 1: break in the case they are looking for. You don't

453
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: misspell your own name, even if it's a nickname. Maybe

454
00:30:27,600 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: somebody else could send the text message wow. So the

455
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:33,440
Speaker 1: blood text is nowhere? Why is that? Joe Scott Morgan.

456
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: Usually we think we create the case when we find

457
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 1: blood spatter. Well, yeah, and that's that's one of the

458
00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 1: things we've run up against Nancy. You remember, what they're

459
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 1: saying here is that there wasn't enough for typing. There

460
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:49,560
Speaker 1: wasn't enough certainly for a DNA examination. So the blood

461
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,640
Speaker 1: sample that is left behind, there's an indication, like we

462
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 1: mentioned that the iron was there, but there's not a

463
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: what we refer to as a viable sample where you

464
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 1: can go in and you can kind of find that

465
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: genetic roadmap relative to what that information was it was

466
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: contained in the blood, because that blood has been compromised.

467
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: Maybe just maybe the individual that was attempting to clean

468
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: up Vie some kind of agent that compromised the integrity

469
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,800
Speaker 1: of the sample that had been left behind. But here

470
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:24,120
Speaker 1: is the kicker. Dana Pappen David Pappen, the brother and

471
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: sister of Dawn Van's with us. I would never spell

472
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: Nancy with an eye at the end I wouldn't make

473
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 1: that mistake in a NCI is in a nc Why

474
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:38,480
Speaker 1: what about this text that went to friend Monica. I

475
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: played it for you at the very beginning. Her nickname

476
00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:46,320
Speaker 1: was Pixie Pixie, but in the text she spelled it

477
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,840
Speaker 1: p i X. Why would she have ever done that, Dana,

478
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:55,080
Speaker 1: I don't think so. No. She was a particular kind

479
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: of person when it came to certain things, very organized,

480
00:31:58,280 --> 00:32:02,920
Speaker 1: very thorough, and it stood out to me when I

481
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,120
Speaker 1: found that out, for sure, it was weird. It wasn't

482
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: something that she would have done. Well. The blood evidence

483
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: may have taken us in nowhere, but it ain't over yet.

484
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:18,320
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace killers amongst us, signing off goodbye friend,