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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg P and L Podcast. I'm Pim Fox.

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Speaker 1: Along with my co host Lisa Abramowitz. Each day we

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Speaker 1: bring you the most important, noteworthy, and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money, whether you at the grocery store

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Speaker 1: or the trading floor. Find the Bloomberg pm L podcast

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Speaker 1: on iTunes, SoundCloud and at Bloomberg dot com. You know,

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Speaker 1: Pim Fox. We hear a lot about the A, T

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Speaker 1: and T and Time Warner merger, and we've heard Donald Trump,

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Speaker 1: president elect, talk about it and say that he opposes it.

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Speaker 1: Are we at least heard that according to sources, as

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Speaker 1: reported by Bloomberg, that he has told people he still

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Speaker 1: opposes it. So can this deal still get done? I

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Speaker 1: want to bring in Porter bib managing partner at Media

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Speaker 1: Tech Capital Partners in New York. Porter, what do you

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Speaker 1: think is going on here? I mean, Ken Ken, President

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Speaker 1: Trump even way in on this deal in any practical way.

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Speaker 1: Actually he can't, but that's not going to stop him.

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Speaker 1: And the one thing we have learned about President elect

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Speaker 1: Trump is that whatever he says is always reversible, uh,

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Speaker 1: in a millisecond, because he's been doing it every day.

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Speaker 1: He's he's got a very interesting meeting in an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half with the senior US intelligent the community leaders.

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Speaker 1: And my guess is he's going to reverse his uh

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Speaker 1: love affair that he's had with Julian Ensage when not

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Speaker 1: meeting is over. But regarding Time Warner, A T and T,

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Speaker 1: the two new UH Trump appointees to the SEC have

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Speaker 1: both come out very strongly in favor of proving the deal.

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Speaker 1: There's been no problem, uh surface that that the Obama

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Speaker 1: Justice Department, UM, and I don't that that Trump's team

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Speaker 1: is going to see this as anything but a very

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Speaker 1: positive Jeff says Zebuscus UH and Randall Stevens. And when

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Speaker 1: they came to Congress and UM testified about this deal,

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Speaker 1: really pointed out the the fact that most people in

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Speaker 1: Washington hadn't yet realized that the competition is not are

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Speaker 1: the cable or telecom companies, It's the Frightful five, It's

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Speaker 1: the Google's, the Amazon's, the Microsoft's. Uh. Those companies are

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Speaker 1: on Facebook. They're going to rule the media market going forward,

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Speaker 1: and A T and T and Time Warner are going

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Speaker 1: to be rather rather small competitors compared to the tech companies.

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Speaker 1: Porter if anyone doubts that this merger is going to happen.

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Speaker 1: You're saying, don't doubt it. It will happen, at least

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Speaker 1: not because of government interference. That's what I'm saying. And

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Speaker 1: Jeff Mucas came out last week and chief executive Time Warner. Yes,

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Speaker 1: then there he said, there is no Plan B. Plan

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Speaker 1: A is what we're planning to do, and uh, um,

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Speaker 1: it's going to go through and if it doesn't, uh,

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Speaker 1: that's it. We're going to stay standalone. But that that

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Speaker 1: had a hollow ring to it because he's as vulnerable

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Speaker 1: as the other linear media content providers. They have to

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Speaker 1: expand they have to go digital, and the huge consumer

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Speaker 1: facing aspect of a T and T UM is going

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Speaker 1: to elevate Time Warner into a very significant competitive position

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Speaker 1: against the tech giants, where you know, there are going

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of changes on in the media

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Speaker 1: landscape next year. This year. Uh, two of the biggest

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Speaker 1: moves that if it in the news recently are making

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Speaker 1: Kelly and credit on suster and moving to and B

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Speaker 1: see from Fox. Do you think that Fox is going

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Speaker 1: to suffer from this? And conversely, do you think the

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Speaker 1: NBC really will benefit well? The loss of Roger Ales

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Speaker 1: has really put the pressure on James and Rockland Murdoch,

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Speaker 1: who are who are essentially running the company right now

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Speaker 1: with with Rupert taking a much less dominant role, and

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Speaker 1: they have been both very adamant, but James and Laughlin

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Speaker 1: saying they want to keep Fox the way it is

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Speaker 1: positioned as a partisan network, partisan leading network, but emphasize

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Speaker 1: the hard news and what they call the fair and

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Speaker 1: balanced aspect. And I think having having lost Megan Kelly,

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Speaker 1: especially because she was really a departure from the heavily

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Speaker 1: partisan prime time lineup that Fox has, that that is

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Speaker 1: going to be a very interesting situation to see whether

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Speaker 1: Fox continues down the road that they have traveled for

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Speaker 1: for the last twenty years. And the most important thing, however,

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Speaker 1: that Fox is facing is the the very serious demographic situation.

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Speaker 1: Almost sixty percent of their audience is over sixty years old,

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Speaker 1: and they're very very weak and the key demographic eighteen

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Speaker 1: to forty nine, which advertisers want. And despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that they are the market leader in cable news right now,

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Speaker 1: the demographics are very poor. And if you start looking

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Speaker 1: at the ads that are running on Fox, there's more

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Speaker 1: pharmaceutical and reverse mortgage advertising. Uh than anything else. You

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Speaker 1: don't see the cars and the soft drinks and the

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Speaker 1: other major advertising categories that the other networks are caring.

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Speaker 1: So I think Fox has to do a lot of

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Speaker 1: thinking about what kind of image and format they want

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Speaker 1: to go with going forward. And losing Megan Kelly was

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Speaker 1: a very serious loss to them. She is going to

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Speaker 1: be replaced by we Gotta we gotta leave it there.

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Speaker 1: I want to thank you very much, Porter bib He

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Speaker 1: is managing partner Media Tech Capital Partners. Well more than

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Speaker 1: two hundred thousand people are at the Consumer Electronics Show

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Speaker 1: in Las Vegas, and one of them is our guest,

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Speaker 1: Dr Alex Leedo. He is the chief executive and the

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Speaker 1: co founder of Efficient Power Conversion. Dr Leado, thank you

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Speaker 1: very much for being with us. Thank you. You know,

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Speaker 1: I can't figure out whether we should start with you

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Speaker 1: telling us what it's like to be at c e

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Speaker 1: S with all of the new things and great televisions

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Speaker 1: and everything, where maybe start with something totally complicated light

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Speaker 1: light detection and ranging systems. The show you want to shake,

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Speaker 1: you know, he's the coolest thing that what's the coolest

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Speaker 1: thing that you've seen at the show did well. You know, look,

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Speaker 1: I think that the coolest things all revolve around autonomous

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Speaker 1: cars and augmented reality. There's all sorts of displays on

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Speaker 1: that right now, and uh, it's just amazing. You know,

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Speaker 1: our lives are going to change quite a bit from

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Speaker 1: both of those, uh, those developments. So how do you

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Speaker 1: envision our life being changed by some of these developments? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I think the autonomous vehicle really takes away

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Speaker 1: the need for individual car ownership. So you know, that

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Speaker 1: redefines how cities will be defined, how we'll get around.

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Speaker 1: And really, there hasn't been a major change in transportation

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Speaker 1: since the jet engine was developed sixty seventy years ago.

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Speaker 1: So this is really going to be a revolution. But

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Speaker 1: it'll take time. It'll take you five years, and everybody's

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Speaker 1: gonna expect it tomorrow. So um, dr Leader, this brings

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Speaker 1: us back to, uh, the substances that Pim was trying

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Speaker 1: to it out. Um, your company produces a substance that

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Speaker 1: you're hoping will be instrumental in this revolution in the

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Speaker 1: way that we transu we we get around, correct, that's correct. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we we make products out of the gallium nitride. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and uh, these products are really the successor to silicon,

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Speaker 1: which is the foundation of all of our computer chips

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Speaker 1: and semiconductors. And it's it's a whole lot faster and

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Speaker 1: its lower cost, so it enables things like these light

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Speaker 1: detection and ranging systems and augmented reality systems. And in

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Speaker 1: the next few years you'll start seeing power chords disappearing.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know about you, but I don't know

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Speaker 1: anybody who likes power chords. I think you've just you

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Speaker 1: just made it made a convert here. I mean honestly,

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Speaker 1: you said power chords are going away, and I almost

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Speaker 1: jumped up and down in my seat. I see how

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Speaker 1: easy it is to make people happy, you know, we were.

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Speaker 1: I want you to just describe the actual thing, because

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Speaker 1: right now it kind of looks like a hockey puck

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Speaker 1: that sits on top of an automobile and it spins

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Speaker 1: around to get that three hundred and sixty degree image.

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Speaker 1: It's a hockey puck type, it's a lighter, it's a

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Speaker 1: it's a lighter technology, and it spins around and it

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Speaker 1: creates uh almost instantaneous map of whatever it is that

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Speaker 1: you're around, and it's done with lasers. Now you've partnered

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Speaker 1: with Veladine to do something else and it's much much smaller.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about it. So you know, these lighter systems

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Speaker 1: have been around since the Google mapping cars several years ago.

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Speaker 1: They were one of the first users of it, and

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Speaker 1: they really paint an immediate picture of the you know,

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Speaker 1: all the objects and three dimensions around you in in

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Speaker 1: in and they give you three dimensions. The problem has

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Speaker 1: been they've been very expensive, so getting them less expensive

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Speaker 1: so that they can get on cars that are driven

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Speaker 1: by you and me has been the goal. So we

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Speaker 1: partnered with Veladine and we developed some uh some more

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Speaker 1: advanced integrated circuits with our gallium nitride devices that are

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Speaker 1: are allowing shrink and make these things smaller so you

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Speaker 1: can't see them, and also make them a whole lot

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Speaker 1: cheaper so we can put them on everyday cars. Dr

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Speaker 1: leto Do you expect that in the future when we're

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Speaker 1: all sort of just being driven around by our computers.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that we're going to have to update

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Speaker 1: the programs, the systems and we go to bring our

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Speaker 1: cars to sort of techys to to get them fixed.

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Speaker 1: Me I'm just trying to think about the realities of

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Speaker 1: having one of these. So first of all, you probably

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Speaker 1: won't own the car, you know somebody. It will be

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Speaker 1: a you know, transportation as a service kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: A car will arrive with no driver, you'll get in it,

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Speaker 1: you'll arrive at your destination, kind of like an Uber

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Speaker 1: without a driver, which is why Uber's experimenting with these things.

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Speaker 1: Um So in terms of service and all that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the software updates will be over the air. I think

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Speaker 1: Tesla has already pioneered that very successfully. And in terms

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Speaker 1: of service, electric vehicles are are fundamentally simpler than than

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Speaker 1: gasoline and diesel vehicle. So I think that the amount

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Speaker 1: of service has been proved to be a lot less

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Speaker 1: on an electric car. Thank you so much. Really really

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Speaker 1: fascinating to hear what you're seeing and what you're doing

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Speaker 1: over there. Dr Alex LIEDO CEO and co founder of

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Speaker 1: Efficient Power Conversion talking about the future of our lives

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Speaker 1: in cars that drive us around that we don't own,

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Speaker 1: that have all sorts of cool little gadget you know,

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Speaker 1: next week with no power courts, with no power courts,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I am converted, and to get smarter on China,

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Speaker 1: I want to focus right now on trade we have

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Speaker 1: Dan Moss. He is executive editor on Global Economics for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg News and he can be followed on Twitter at

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Speaker 1: moss underscore Eco. Seems appropriate, Dan, thanks for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Tell us the what's going on now with China and

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Speaker 1: President elected Don Trump and the back and forth of

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Speaker 1: words him. The two sides are really figuring out how

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Speaker 1: they're going to dance with each other after January. The

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Speaker 1: Chinese are probably wondering which Donald Trump walks into the

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Speaker 1: Oval Office that afternoon after the ceremony. Is it Donald

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Speaker 1: Trump the deal maker advised by Rex Tillison and Gary Cohn,

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Speaker 1: or is it Donald Trump the populist hitting all the

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Speaker 1: bases for the white working class in the manufacturing hard land.

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Speaker 1: While the Chinese appear to be unsure of that, they're thinking,

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Speaker 1: let's take out some insurance while we're at it and

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Speaker 1: say look. Earlier in the week, there was the line

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Speaker 1: that there's a great lot of flowers outside key government

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Speaker 1: ministries in Beijing, but inside there are also sticks. Now

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Speaker 1: we're learning, we'll look. American companies have a lot invested

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Speaker 1: in China. We all knew that the China his government

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Speaker 1: is reminding the incoming administration of that saying, by the way,

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Speaker 1: there are some things that we can do. We hope

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Speaker 1: it won't come to that. We don't expect it will

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Speaker 1: come to that. But hey, we're here and we're watching,

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Speaker 1: and we're waiting, and we're not necessarily going to allow

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Speaker 1: ourselves to be mulanova. You know, I was struck by

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Speaker 1: this story that was on the terminal this morning, and

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Speaker 1: I was struck in particular was talking about how China

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Speaker 1: is preparing to step up the scrutiny of its US companies,

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Speaker 1: just sort of what you were exactly talking about, dan

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Speaker 1: Uh in a sort of way to retaliate. But there

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Speaker 1: was a quote here, Um that was really crucial to me.

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Speaker 1: When you have a country with a large trade deficit

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Speaker 1: that retaliates against a country with a large trade surplus

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Speaker 1: with it, it's the country with the trade deficit, i e.

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Speaker 1: The US that wins. The country with the surplus loses

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Speaker 1: every time. And America has had this trade deficit um

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Speaker 1: with China has been narrowing somewhat um and yet you know,

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Speaker 1: there is this feeling, you know, who has more to

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Speaker 1: lose here? They both do. And let's just take a

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Speaker 1: step back. This didn't get any scrutiny at all during

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Speaker 1: the course of the campaign. But the nature of the

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Speaker 1: Chinese economy and what's driving it is changing significantly, and

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Speaker 1: the nature of the US as economic relationship with China

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Speaker 1: as a result is changing as well. This image we

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Speaker 1: all have of people going to Guangdong to set up

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Speaker 1: T shirt factories, no one does that anymore because it's

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Speaker 1: simply too expensive. That's gone elsewhere. When people think about

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Speaker 1: trade with China, they think of that sort of thing

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Speaker 1: which is completely out murdered, or they think of stuff

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Speaker 1: being loaded onto a ship and brought to Mexico for

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Speaker 1: assembly and end of the US. The Chinese economy is

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Speaker 1: increasingly driven by services. When people talk about the trade

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Speaker 1: surplus and the trade deficit, they're talking about merchandise, goods,

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Speaker 1: services exports from the United States to China growing significantly.

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Speaker 1: The Chinese current account surplus will basically disappear by twenty

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Speaker 1: According to the IMF, The most interesting US company in

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Speaker 1: China right now arguably is Starbucks. It's a services economy.

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Speaker 1: The Chinese population is getting richer. Low cost manufacturing doesn't

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Speaker 1: make sense there anymore. Services and consumption now account for

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Speaker 1: more than half of GDP. You know. So Earlier this week,

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Speaker 1: President elect Trump tweeted, China has been taking out massive

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Speaker 1: amounts of money and wealth from the US in totally

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Speaker 1: one sided trade, but won't help with North Korea. Nice

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Speaker 1: exclamation point. Um. You know, with a tweet like this,

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Speaker 1: there you have a lot of people saying, look, we

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Speaker 1: all have a lot to lose. Uh. International trade has

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Speaker 1: really helped the economy. You know, is there something to

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Speaker 1: what President elect Trump is saying? Well, look, leaving aside

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Speaker 1: the North Korea question, I don't want to get into. Um,

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Speaker 1: not a lot of FDI going on there. Look, but

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Speaker 1: they both have a lot to lose. So yeah, China

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Speaker 1: has become wealthy from the opening the economy that began

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Speaker 1: under Dung Shooping in the late seventies. By the way,

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Speaker 1: it's not just US corporations that have gone in their

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Speaker 1: Japanese corporations, European corporations. US corporations have also done well

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Speaker 1: out of China. I mean, GM makes a huge amount

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Speaker 1: of money out of China. Starbucks again, services economy, big

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Speaker 1: expansion plans within China. Hello, last time I checked, these

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Speaker 1: were US companies. So it really is a two way thing.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you could argue that they aren't really the

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Speaker 1: first and second largest economies on the planet, they are

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Speaker 1: actually one economy. Well, then I was just gonna try

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Speaker 1: to get in. Can you do fifteen seconds on them

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Speaker 1: buying US treasuries in the currency? Well, they buy US treasuries,

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Speaker 1: as do many governments. The question is really whether they're

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Speaker 1: going to keep selling them at a pretty fast clip

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Speaker 1: in order to support the u n UM And I

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Speaker 1: think that's sort of the jury is still out whether

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Speaker 1: they're going to have to do that um and whether

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Speaker 1: they're going to continue and whether they've they've even put

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Speaker 1: in certain capital controls and they've made it more difficult

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Speaker 1: for people to take money out of the country and

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Speaker 1: to even have foreign investors in the country. But it

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Speaker 1: seems like some of those measures are starting to stick

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Speaker 1: and the economy is is solidified to some degree. Dams. Unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to leave it there. We can talk

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Speaker 1: about this for the rest of the show, and I

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Speaker 1: would love to, actually, because I feel like this is

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Speaker 1: the big backdrop for a lot of what happens next.

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Speaker 1: Dan Moss, executive editor for Global Economics for Bloomer. Well,

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Speaker 1: when we want to learn more about the world economy

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Speaker 1: one place to look as the shipping industry. And here

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Speaker 1: to help us his urs dir. He is the chief

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Speaker 1: financial officer of t b S Ocean Logistics. Or maybe

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Speaker 1: just give a quick recap of your breadth of experience

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Speaker 1: and tell us what's going on in the shipping industry

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Speaker 1: right now that we can take away and use in

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Speaker 1: our understanding of the world economy. Hey Pimm, and good

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Speaker 1: morning Lisa, and thanks for having me on UM and

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Speaker 1: happy New Year. I think that this is a good

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Speaker 1: subject matter to start the year off and looking a

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Speaker 1: little bit macro and global shipping. My background just very briefly,

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Speaker 1: I was on the street for eight years as an

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Speaker 1: equity analyst prior to this role. But also I love

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Speaker 1: that people here say on the street and it doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean you know, on a corner. I was in Canon

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Speaker 1: waving my hands, hanging by the stocks all the stock

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Speaker 1: no no, working at de Lazard and Clarkson's uh and UM,

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Speaker 1: I'm proud of that. I was a lender and a

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Speaker 1: banker and working another shipping companies UM. Right now in

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Speaker 1: the in the dry bak shipping markets where we compete,

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Speaker 1: we have twenty six ships under our control we have

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Speaker 1: no debt, a good balance sheet, but the industry itself

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Speaker 1: is very much oversupplied, so there's too many ships. Overall,

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Speaker 1: demand was fairly weak in sixteen, but didn't prove in

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Speaker 1: the second half of the year significantly as a dollar stabilized,

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Speaker 1: UH and UM. They outlook for next year on the

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Speaker 1: demand side is for demand to slightly exceed fleet growth,

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Speaker 1: So we do expect freight rates to stabilize four ships, UM.

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Speaker 1: But we have high iron ore inventories I think you

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Speaker 1: mentioned in one of the breaks, UM. We also have

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Speaker 1: prices coming up. We have UM coking coal inventories in

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Speaker 1: China moving up again but also prices coming high. And

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Speaker 1: then we also have Chinese New York coming So I

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Speaker 1: expect the first quarter of this year freight weight rate

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Speaker 1: wise to be weak. I would also expect commodity prices

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Speaker 1: to stabilize and possibly soften, and the rest of the

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Speaker 1: year actually to be much better than which was a

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Speaker 1: historic worst. Gil I wanted to talk about that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I was last year a lot of people were talking

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Speaker 1: about the Baltic Dry and how it was plunging and

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Speaker 1: the problem behind that and how it sort of indicate

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Speaker 1: did that the global economy was slowing. This is what

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Speaker 1: a lot of people were looking at for edification about

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Speaker 1: their slow growth or no growth forever type of theces.

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Speaker 1: All of a sudden you are seeing a little bit

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Speaker 1: of pickup, but not really that gangbusters growth that backs

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Speaker 1: up with a lot of people are talking about now,

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Speaker 1: which is sudden global reflation. I mean, where is the

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Speaker 1: optimism coming from suddenly? Now? At the beginning of last year,

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Speaker 1: there was a couple of things that are going on

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Speaker 1: a ship against great question um there were far too

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Speaker 1: many ships. There are a lot of ships being delivered

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Speaker 1: in the first quarter as well, but you also had

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Speaker 1: a weakening dollar, and you had again a first quarter

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Speaker 1: that is typically saw for commodity demand growth. So you

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Speaker 1: have the freight rates really coming off into a deep

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Speaker 1: historic low as a dollar stabilized. Everyone noticed the particularly

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Speaker 1: in Asia, particularly in China, which is of the dry

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Speaker 1: boat demand market seaborn demand that their inventories were low

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Speaker 1: and the price was extremely attractive, much cheaper than their

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Speaker 1: domestic sources of iron ore and coal. UH imports then

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Speaker 1: improved very significantly, so year on year, Chinese iron or

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Speaker 1: import import demands seaboard imports were up nine percent. Domestic

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Speaker 1: production was off seven UM. Steel production is moving up.

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Speaker 1: There's been good stimulus in China. China has also been

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Speaker 1: rationalizing it's coal mines. Um. Part of that is clean air.

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Speaker 1: Part of that is that many of the coal mines

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Speaker 1: were losing money at those prices and they don't want

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Speaker 1: to subsidize them any longer. And there's cheap coal available,

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Speaker 1: particularly from Australia coming in, so that demand has been good.

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Speaker 1: There's been good stimulus in China. Second half of the

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Speaker 1: year was rather strong or as I just want to

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Speaker 1: put some numbers to all of this, because in the

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Speaker 1: dry bulk sector you've got maybe four groups. Right, You've

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Speaker 1: got your cape size, Panamax, super Max, handy size. I

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Speaker 1: was looking at the year to the comparisons. You're in

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Speaker 1: your comparisons a cape size twelve thousand, three hundred today, right,

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Speaker 1: That's that's how much it will cost me per day,

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Speaker 1: right all Right? Last year, same time thirty eight hundred bucks.

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Speaker 1: So from thirty eight hundred over twelve thousand, what do

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Speaker 1: we need to take away from that? Overall demand has

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Speaker 1: improved in the second half of the year. There was

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Speaker 1: very good dust scrapping of ships. Also in the early

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Speaker 1: part of last year. There has been no ordering of

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Speaker 1: dry bull ships now for two years. A year ago

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Speaker 1: was one year, right, so there's there has been a rebalancing.

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Speaker 1: But also then this is very very macro. But if

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Speaker 1: you look at the commodity prices coming off as the

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Speaker 1: dollar was collapsing, dollar stabilizing and strengthening. Um typically we

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Speaker 1: think of the dollar strengthens, then it would be the

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Speaker 1: commodities are cheaper. They are, yes for the United States,

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Speaker 1: but they're not for everyone else who buying, and they

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Speaker 1: have to buy the dollars to buy the commodities. Then

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Speaker 1: you end up having pricing in contango. People build inventories.

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Speaker 1: Now inventories are high, looks like the dollar not the dollar.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me that that's about as high as they're going

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Speaker 1: to get due to their physical constraint. Uh, they're probably

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Speaker 1: going to be some inventory eating over the course of

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Speaker 1: the first quarter, so rays come down. But year on year,

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Speaker 1: the overall conditions of the dry bull markets are are better.

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Speaker 1: Or in two thousand fifteen, I believe hedge funds that

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Speaker 1: had piled into the shipping industry in various ways got

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Speaker 1: yeah you you laugh. I mean it was like a

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Speaker 1: blood bath, right, and when they got hammered, it was, uh,

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Speaker 1: the source of a lot of pain both at hedge

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Speaker 1: funds as well as at some banks that had a

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Speaker 1: lot of shipping investments globally. Um, from an investment standpoint,

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Speaker 1: are you seeing investors coming back? Well, I don't necessarily

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Speaker 1: want to comment on other competing companies, but I think

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Speaker 1: that the interest level now in shipping remains as um

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Speaker 1: as strong as it was back then. Is that what

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Speaker 1: you basically mainly do is just make a shipping investment. No, No,

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Speaker 1: we were We own and control ships, so we're shipping company,

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Speaker 1: but we do have investors who are part of that

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Speaker 1: group that you mentioned. Um and uh, there was some

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Speaker 1: time ago, back in some time ago, but in there

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Speaker 1: was a very strong story about eco ships. So there

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Speaker 1: was a technological advantage of the new ships being built

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Speaker 1: and this was going to be a boom and make

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Speaker 1: other ships obsolete, So there was quite a bit of

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Speaker 1: ship ordering. Now their ships are delivering and is keeping

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Speaker 1: the market down right now, the interest is fundamental. The

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Speaker 1: banks are worn out from this industry that's been in

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Speaker 1: a bad shape for a solid almost decade, but it's

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Speaker 1: call it eight years. Banks are worn out traditional sources

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Speaker 1: of funding a worn out Even the public markets seem

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Speaker 1: rather weary and worn out. Uh So it's going to

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Speaker 1: take some rather creative and smart investors that come in

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Speaker 1: and buy assets at a price that that makes sense

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Speaker 1: and put them into commercial managers such as ourselves, um

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Speaker 1: that can beat the market for them. And so I

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Speaker 1: think the interest today fundamentally makes more sense than it

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Speaker 1: did even two years ago. Thank you so much. This

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Speaker 1: is definitely a fascinating sector and really important one to watch.

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Speaker 1: Often used as a bell weather for global growth. Generally,

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Speaker 1: the Baltic Dry is a classic index that a lot

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Speaker 1: of people keep an eye on. Or Sdr CFO of

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Speaker 1: BBS Ocean Logistics talking about the global bulk and shipping

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Speaker 1: industry of this year. Thank you so much for joining us.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg P and L podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at iTunes, SoundCloud,

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Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Pim Fox. I'm

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00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: out there on Twitter at pim Fox. I'm out there

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Speaker 1: on Twitter at Lisa Abramo. It's one before the podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can always catch us worldwide on Bloomberg Radio