WEBVTT - JFK - Oswald - Lincoln: Forensic Firearm Examination 0:00:01.400 --> 0:00:07.159 Quality diners with Joseph Scott More. There are certain individuals 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:14.520 throughout history who, for whatever reason, have been linked to 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:21.840 specific historic events. One such person is a gentleman that 0:00:21.960 --> 0:00:29.920 I have mentioned previously on body Backs who was the 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:38.720 chief medical examiner for Dallas. His name was doctor Earl Rose, 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:45.440 and for his time, he was highly educated, highly trained, 0:00:46.360 --> 0:00:50.080 and was one of the leading experts in the country 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:57.200 on death investigation. It just so happens that his life 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:04.760 intersected with three of the principal people involved in the 0:01:04.880 --> 0:01:15.039 JFK assassination, actually four, and three of the four had 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:21.479 something in common. They all died as a result of gunshot. 0:01:21.520 --> 0:01:27.800 Ones today on body Bags, in a continuing effort to 0:01:27.880 --> 0:01:32.319 offer our friends out there a bit of forensic education, 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.880 if you will, we're going to be talking about gunfire 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:40.880 and gunfire related deaths because let's face that, it's part 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.880 of the fabric of who we are in America. It 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:48.120 happens every single day. There are many cases out there 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.720 that are quite high profile, but there are others that 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.720 go without a whisper. But the one thing they have 0:01:56.840 --> 0:02:02.360 in common is the trauma they are subjected to at 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:06.520 the hands of someone that has fired a weapon into 0:02:06.560 --> 0:02:12.920 their body. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan, and this is body backs. 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:20.079 It's really hard to know, looking back through time, who 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:27.079 the first victim of a gunshot wound was. And I'm 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:31.600 not even talking about lethal. We know that the Chinese 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:37.000 invented gunpowder, and we know that as early as the 0:02:37.680 --> 0:02:47.400 twelve hundreds they had a firearm. This is something that 0:02:47.639 --> 0:02:51.680 they would load. It's essentially a tube packed with gunpowder. 0:02:52.840 --> 0:02:55.880 They would spark this thing off and they just put 0:02:56.000 --> 0:03:00.639 all manner of trapnel down the barrel, which he turns 0:03:00.680 --> 0:03:05.639 this into a gigantic shotgun, if you will, not very aerodynamic, 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.600 but for its time, I'm sure that it was quite 0:03:08.600 --> 0:03:12.080 frightful for those that were on the business end of 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:16.240 the weapon. If you will, to have these items flying 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:19.080 through the air at you and slamming into your body. 0:03:19.680 --> 0:03:22.720 Things that in the past maybe you wore armor for, 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:29.080 like to defeat a sword or a spear blow, were 0:03:29.080 --> 0:03:33.640 insufficient to the task. And suddenly a whole new world 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:38.280 opened up in warfare and then eventually trickles down to 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:45.280 the civilian world. But we do know that there was 0:03:45.560 --> 0:03:52.119 one gentleman that is the first recorded assassination victim by 0:03:52.200 --> 0:03:56.840 someone that had fired a weapon. And this gent's name 0:03:56.920 --> 0:03:59.160 and he's rather fashma. I'm looking at the image of 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.720 him right now. Was a guy named James Stewart, first 0:04:02.880 --> 0:04:06.800 Earl of Moray, and back in I don't know, about 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:12.840 fifteen seventy he was summoned up north to a castle 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:19.039 in Scotland and there was another gentleman who was displeased 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:25.880 with Moray, or Stewart rather, and from an open window 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:34.000 fired a matchlock weapon at him matchlock carbine as it's 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:38.839 referred to as, and struck him down and killed him. 0:04:38.839 --> 0:04:43.480 This guy's name was James Hamilton. Now, over a period 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:48.719 of tom I think much has been forgotten about that case. 0:04:48.760 --> 0:04:51.960 But every single day, Dave in the news, we hear 0:04:52.120 --> 0:04:57.320 about people that die as a result of gunfire. It's 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.520 part and parcel of who we are in America. A 0:05:00.640 --> 0:05:06.279 reality whether regardless of how you think about or feel 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:12.120 feel about weapons farms specifically, it's the reality that we 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.240 have to deal with in forensics and all the remains 0:05:15.320 --> 0:05:19.040 of individuals who have in fact been shot dead. 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:24.440 When I look at gunshow, my fear is when people 0:05:24.440 --> 0:05:31.080 don't respect them properly, and when because you see the 0:05:31.120 --> 0:05:32.839 damage that can be done when you see it up 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:37.080 close and personally, it's shocking. I look back at our history, 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:39.760 you know, and I think about you mentioned JFK, and 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.719 I think about the weapon used with that and all 0:05:42.760 --> 0:05:47.440 of the experts that came into play about that shooting 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:50.479 of JFK and what they had to say about that 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:53.120 man liquor Carcano. I don't know that's how you pronounced it. 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:57.039 I've heard it some different ways. But you've got a 0:05:57.160 --> 0:06:01.480 cheap twelve dollars mail order rife that supposedly took down 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:05.000 the leader of the Free world from the third floor 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.359 of the school at Texas school book depository, from a 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:11.440 shot that couldn't be made by experts, and he wasn't 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:14.440 even a you know, he was not a good shot. 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:17.839 And I think about those types of things, and I 0:06:17.880 --> 0:06:22.799 think about how you, as an expert, have to figure out, 0:06:23.240 --> 0:06:26.560 I mean, where did it come from, how did it happen? 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:31.360 Is it even possible that this gun fired that projectile 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:35.000 and hit this victim? You have to figure that out 0:06:35.080 --> 0:06:38.919 based on what's left. And I have trouble figuring that 0:06:38.960 --> 0:06:40.479 out when I see the whole thing on film. 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:43.520 Yeah, you do, and think about it is what's very 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:53.200 interesting about the assassination of Kennedy is that Kennedy's gunshot 0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:57.480 ones that he sustained were a typical in this sense. 0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:03.719 Most of the time in America, we don't have, like 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:08.719 on a day to day basis, farms related deaths that 0:07:09.120 --> 0:07:12.520 come about as a result of a rifled weapon being fired, 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.200 or let me rephrase that, a long arm being fired. 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.320 And when I say that, like a shoulder fired weapon. 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:23.080 Pistols are rifled, but you know the term rifle. When 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:25.800 people hear the term rifle, they think a long arm 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.600 or shoulder fired arm, and those are the exception and 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.400 not the norm. The line share of people that meet 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.480 their end in America as a result of gunplay does 0:07:38.520 --> 0:07:40.200 a result of handgun. 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:42.720 And isn't it odd that every time we have a 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:45.640 shooting of any type, the two things they want to 0:07:45.680 --> 0:07:50.040 ban assault rifles that aren't used in the crime and 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:53.240 other military style weapons that oftentimes are not used in 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:56.880 the crime. It's usually a handgun. And yet you never 0:07:56.920 --> 0:08:00.920 get a battle over handguns. That's never because it just 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:02.880 doesn't make any kind of political sense. But that's a 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:05.520 different discussion for a different let me ask you this show. Yeah, 0:08:05.520 --> 0:08:09.200 but if I if somebody were to be creating hell 0:08:09.240 --> 0:08:11.760 on Earth with a firearm taking out the leader of 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:14.520 the free world, would it better be Would it be 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:18.360 better to use a rifle that is made to shoot 0:08:18.360 --> 0:08:21.000 if you're shooting from a long distance, a hunting type 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:23.800 rifle or military type rifle. 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:30.920 Well, here's the thing. The genesis for most civilian hunting weapons, 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.480 the genesis is military military application. That's where as a 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:41.120 matter of fact, for years in my grandfather he fired. 0:08:41.240 --> 0:08:45.000 He had a thirty out six rifle. He had a 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:48.080 thirty thirty rifle, and they were lever action rifles, you know, 0:08:48.160 --> 0:08:51.040 like old cowboy, but you know, the thirty out six. Yeah, 0:08:51.080 --> 0:08:54.800 exactly like the rifleman from the sixties. Oh yeah, Chuck 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:59.920 Conners man. But baseball. Yeah. And I think you played 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:04.160 basketball too, didn't he for the sixers? I think, yeah, yeah, 0:09:04.200 --> 0:09:10.280 bless his heart. You know, with rifles in particular, our 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:15.160 troops came back from World War One, and the cartridge 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:21.000 that those soldiers and marines were familiar with when they 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.800 got back home was referred to as the thirty out six, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:27.080 and thirty out six became the gold Center. Still by 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:30.760 some measure today it is for hunting, you know, kind 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.719 of mid sized game like individuals that can go out 0:09:33.760 --> 0:09:37.560 and hunt deer and maybe wild hog or you know 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:42.319 things like this. Well, that cartridge itself had its origin 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.760 with a nineteen oh three rifle. It's a bolt action 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.520 rifle that we had that all of our troops were issued. 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:55.280 Now you talk about if someone is plotting an assassination, 0:09:56.520 --> 0:10:00.520 first off, there are examples of people that have walked 0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:06.000 up on the individuals and shot them, you know, at 0:10:06.400 --> 0:10:10.000 very close range. To presidents in particular, I can think 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:14.000 of well, actually three if you count Lincoln, but Garfield 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.800 who died and he was shot at a train station. 0:10:17.800 --> 0:10:21.360 You had Teddy Roosevelt who was shot with a pistol 0:10:21.480 --> 0:10:24.040 and the only thing that saved his life was he 0:10:24.200 --> 0:10:26.760 had a I think it was a silver cigar case 0:10:28.040 --> 0:10:31.440 that was in his pocket and it deflected the round. 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:34.600 He still caught shrapnel and still kept Hey. That's why 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:37.440 Teddy Roosevelt's one of my favorite presidents. He kept on 0:10:37.480 --> 0:10:41.480 giving the speech. Yeah that I mean, you know, I mean, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.000 you take whoever you want. I'm going with Teddy Roosevelt 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:48.320 every time. I love Teddy. And and then of course 0:10:48.320 --> 0:10:51.520 you have you have Lincoln, who was famously assassinated, you know, 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:57.880 with with a pistol an old darringer. So if but 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:01.959 if you're looking for precision, and that's what a long 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:06.760 arm gives individuals, that's generally where your mind is going 0:11:06.800 --> 0:11:09.679 to drift to. You know, somebody in a sniper's nest. 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.040 You know, our troopers that are deployed all around the world, 0:11:13.080 --> 0:11:17.079 we have people that are snipers. In fact, it's actually 0:11:17.160 --> 0:11:21.720 a term that comes from from Scotland sniper. Those were 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:26.520 people that were game wardens and hunters out there and 0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.640 they invented like the gilly suit, you know, where they're 0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:31.920 wearing all the rags all over their body and they 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:34.720 can low crawl and approach. Well, we adopted that in 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:39.640 the military, and the military uses it for military applications. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:43.040 But when you're wanting to reach out a great distance, 0:11:43.160 --> 0:11:46.640 you know, you want to use a long arm as 0:11:46.640 --> 0:11:47.240 it choose to. 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.600 You're talking about the pistols there, and I didn't realize, 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.599 I A, I had forgot about Teddy Roosevelt. 0:11:55.840 --> 0:11:56.920 Yeah, most people do. 0:11:57.080 --> 0:12:00.319 Yeah, But when I was thinking about assassination, you know, 0:12:00.360 --> 0:12:06.559 we're talking about JFK. I was thinking about how Lincoln McKinley. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:08.680 McKinley, I forgot him. 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.560 And Garfield and Garfield and Bobby Kennedy. 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:15.080 And Bobby Kennedy, we're all shot with handguns. 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:18.000 Yeah yeah, Now all right, is it a different term 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:19.400 pistol and handgun or. 0:12:19.600 --> 0:12:22.800 No, No, it's not. It's they're essentially interchangeable. 0:12:23.080 --> 0:12:26.560 But a pistol isn't necessarily a revolver, right, No, it's not. 0:12:26.760 --> 0:12:30.040 So you have let's break this down kind of logically 0:12:30.080 --> 0:12:35.040 so everybody can follow. So weapons generally fall into two categories. 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:38.880 So firearms, that is in the modern sense. So we're 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:44.880 going to have long arms, which are rifled weapons that 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:51.040 fire a projectile that spins down the barrel because the 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:54.240 grooves in the barrel. Okay, it's kind of like and 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.160 I'll tell you why. And that's actually called rifling. Now 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:59.559 i'll tell you why it was developed. It was developed 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:02.160 around about the same time as the Civil War occurred 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:10.199 in America, and before that we were firing smooth bore muskets. 0:13:10.960 --> 0:13:13.720 And that means that you've got this huge chunk of 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.040 lead that's traveling down a smooth boar barrel and it's 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:19.720 kind of bouncing along as it goes through the barrel, 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:22.880 and it's not making the most out of the energy 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:27.280 that's provided by the explosion in the rear, so its 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.840 ability to travel a great distance and bring power on 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:37.680 target drops precipitously. But if you escalate up to say, 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:44.280 for instance, the rifled round of you know, like that 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.600 fired the mini ball, You've got a fifty eight caliber round, 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:51.360 huge chunk of metal going down range in one of 0:13:51.400 --> 0:13:55.000 these in one of these civil war weapons. That thing's 0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:57.680 rifle and it's spinning. So if you think about somebody 0:13:57.720 --> 0:14:00.000 that has taken a football, for instance, you ever see 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:02.480 anybody and I've done it, You've probably done it. Throw 0:14:02.559 --> 0:14:04.160 football and it comes out of your hand as a 0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:05.959 wounded duck. You've ever seen that, and it kind of 0:14:06.000 --> 0:14:08.920 flops through the air. You don't get a tight spiral 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:10.920 on it. It's the same principle with a bullet. If 0:14:10.920 --> 0:14:15.040 you take a football and you can throw a tight spiral, 0:14:15.200 --> 0:14:18.280 it preserves energy and it gives you more distance any 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:21.480 more accurate with it. Same thing. So if you compare 0:14:21.560 --> 0:14:25.680 a wounded duck football throw with a musket, okay, smooth bore, 0:14:26.480 --> 0:14:30.320 and then you take a rifled weapon with a tight spiral, 0:14:30.840 --> 0:14:33.800 that's kind of a simplistic way of looking at it. 0:14:33.840 --> 0:14:36.080 And so we have long arms. And also following in 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:39.880 the category of long arms, many times there are shotguns. And 0:14:39.920 --> 0:14:46.360 so shotguns are smooth bore, okay, but they're meant for close, 0:14:47.000 --> 0:14:51.000 close engagements, but further away than say a pistol would 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:53.920 be usedful and they bring they put a lot of 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.240 power and a lot of energy on target. So that's 0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.080 you know, you've got those two groups of long arms. 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:06.400 So the other group of weapons that we commonly encounter, 0:15:06.640 --> 0:15:11.680 particularly in investigations out on the streets, are handguns, and 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:14.920 they break out in a modern sense. And again I'm 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:17.440 qualifying these things in the modern sense. I'm not talking 0:15:17.440 --> 0:15:23.800 about like the weapon that President Lincoln was assassinated with, 0:15:23.960 --> 0:15:29.160 which was a muzzle loading muzzle loading derringer that you 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.720 had to use a ramrod to press the you know, 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.640 to get the projectile down the barrel that had to 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.880 be primed and then it was fired. I'm talking about 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.760 now multi shot weapons that we encounter on the streets 0:15:44.920 --> 0:15:48.920 in investigations, and with handguns, those are generally going to 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:52.600 fall into two categories. So you're going to have revolvers, 0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:56.520 which old guys call them wheel guns as well, and 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:02.640 you've seen you've seen, you know, revolvers in all manner 0:16:02.680 --> 0:16:06.920 of television shows over the years, old Westerns, you know, 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:11.720 even detective programs from back in as late as the eighties, 0:16:12.920 --> 0:16:17.120 because it's what cops carried. Cops had classically, they had 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.880 the six inch Smith and Western thirty eight special revolver 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:26.160 with ann iron sight and so the cylinder that the 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.320 bullets and most of the time most revolvers hold six rounds. 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:32.520 Sometimes you'll find them a whole five, and you have 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:36.400 others that will hold more, but those are kind of outlayers. 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:42.320 The as the hammer is actuated and pulled back, you'll 0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.440 see the cylinder kind of spin and it puts it 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.880 on a fresh round and you've only got six, okay, 0:16:48.040 --> 0:16:50.640 six times to fire this thing, and then you have 0:16:50.680 --> 0:16:55.200 to reload. It's kind of cumbersome. And that's the way, 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:57.840 you know, we kind of saw this change happened back 0:16:57.880 --> 0:17:01.080 in the eighties with service weapons that police acers were carrying, 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.159 and they went from revolvers, which they had carried for 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:10.840 years and years, to semi automatic handguns. Top of the 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:13.600 list probably to begin with some of the ones you saw. 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:17.120 There were two groups that you saw being employed by 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:21.280 law enforcement agencies. To begin with, those were glocks, which 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.080 everybody's heard of now it's an Austrian made weapon. It's 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:29.359 got a polymer frame. And then there were Barrettas, which 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.560 is an Italian weapon. And the reason that Barretta was 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:40.000 very popular was because it's what our military troops carried 0:17:40.200 --> 0:17:43.000 in all branches, because they had carried the forty five 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.080 for years and years, and forty five ACP has a 0:17:47.200 --> 0:17:51.000 storied history. But again it could only hold up to 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:58.840 seven rounds, not sufficient to the task. Weapons now the 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:01.840 semi automatic weapon that police officers carry. If you're watching 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:07.200 these videos you know that are that are on YouTube 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:09.720 and these sorts of things, and you're watching them, uh, 0:18:09.840 --> 0:18:14.640 these live shooting instances, you'll see the cop fire multiple 0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.399 times and it seems like it's never going to end. 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:22.359 And that's because the magazines which hold these rounds are 0:18:23.720 --> 0:18:26.800 you know, in the double digits, these rounds and so 0:18:26.960 --> 0:18:29.240 and then they've got multiple magazines on their belts. So 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:33.920 when you see a cop wearing wearing their utility gear, 0:18:34.800 --> 0:18:38.400 you'll see, you know, magazine holders and you'll see them. 0:18:38.440 --> 0:18:40.679 And that's one of the skills you have to develop. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.400 You have to be able to drop drop a magazine, 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:45.879 reload and get back into the fight. And that's one 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:47.679 of the things that's taught in military as well. So 0:18:48.760 --> 0:18:55.440 we've got long arms, rifles and shotguns. Then we've got handguns, 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.480 which are generally gonna be revolvers. They're still revolvers that 0:18:58.520 --> 0:19:01.120 people carry. I know people that prefer for revolvers over 0:19:01.119 --> 0:19:05.000 semi automatics. And then you've got the semi automatics, your glocks, 0:19:06.119 --> 0:19:11.840 Bretta sixth hour, which I think is what the military 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:16.520 has gone to now hk's and some of these can 0:19:16.560 --> 0:19:20.679 cost into the thousands and thousands of dollars, and they 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:38.520 come in a variety of calibers as well. You know, Dave, 0:19:38.280 --> 0:19:42.720 I've made mention of the first autopsy I ever participated in, 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:45.800 which was a bludgeoning death. God had been beaten to 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:47.800 death with a baseball bat at the hand of his 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:49.760 brother something. 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.560 Yeah, I'm a horrible shot, but I'm excellent with the 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:54.480 Louisville slugger. 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:55.320 And there you go. 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.119 Tasted it all at my doors and I've all it 0:19:58.160 --> 0:20:00.880 out the barrel and put my area. If you come 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.359 into my house, you're not You're not walking out just 0:20:03.720 --> 0:20:04.200 you know. 0:20:04.560 --> 0:20:08.280 When I get to our blunt force blunt blunt force 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:11.960 drama lecture, I'm going to rely heavily upon you with 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:16.040 that because we will talk about baseball paths. Uh. The 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:22.720 first homicide or the first death I was ever involved 0:20:22.760 --> 0:20:26.439 in as an autopsy technician was actually a bludgeoning. A 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:28.280 god had been beaten to death by baseball with a 0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:31.400 baseball bat. The first scene that ever went on where 0:20:31.400 --> 0:20:35.040 I was the primary investigator was actually a gunshot wound. 0:20:36.000 --> 0:20:38.880 And that's you know, I know people might think, well, 0:20:38.960 --> 0:20:41.399 that's not unusual, Morgan. Well yet it is. Because you 0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:45.080 work for the corner. You handle all manners of death, 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:49.720 and generally firearms related deaths are the least of what 0:20:49.800 --> 0:20:52.320 you handle. You handle the fewest of those. 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:58.159 You told me that, Joe watching the news and politics, Yeah, 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:02.119 everybody in America had a gun loaded and cocked and 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:03.080 ready to take something. 0:21:02.880 --> 0:21:04.399 And that everybody's dying on a gun. Yeah, I know, 0:21:04.520 --> 0:21:05.440 Well the news. 0:21:05.320 --> 0:21:07.439 That's what we did. We got a cup of coffee, 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:08.480 shot somebody. 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:13.200 And yeah, most our will get you fished in by that. 0:21:13.480 --> 0:21:15.919 The line's share of deaths that you work as an investigator, 0:21:15.920 --> 0:21:18.040 even going out on the field. In my field, I'm 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.000 not talking about it as a homicide detective. I'm talking 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:22.920 as medical legal death investigator. Are going to be naturals, 0:21:23.200 --> 0:21:25.440 but it just so happened. The first one, the first 0:21:25.640 --> 0:21:28.879 case that ever worked by myself in the field, was 0:21:29.040 --> 0:21:31.399 a gunshot wound and it was with kind of an 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:36.879 interesting weapon. It was a twenty two magnum revolver, which 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.359 is actually a very powerful You think of a twenty two, 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.360 which is that's an imperial measurement, and we can talk 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:49.960 about calibers. Twenty two is essentially zero point two inches 0:21:50.080 --> 0:21:54.080 in circumference around the actual projectile, and that's where you 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.159 get that number. But that's an imperial measurement which was 0:21:57.200 --> 0:21:59.879 given to us by the British and we adopted that. 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.440 So anytime you hear caliber, that's what we're talking about. 0:22:03.480 --> 0:22:08.600 That's an imperial measurement. But other so called measurements for 0:22:08.680 --> 0:22:11.679 weapons are done metric. That's why you hear and you 0:22:11.760 --> 0:22:13.600 hear it in a lot of songs that are out 0:22:13.600 --> 0:22:17.399 there that popularly talking about a nine millimeter nine millimeter glock, 0:22:17.560 --> 0:22:20.560 you know, and so nine millimeter is probably the most 0:22:20.600 --> 0:22:25.679 popular round, but that measurement is done in millimeters, so 0:22:25.840 --> 0:22:32.080 and you've got ten milimeter pistols or handguns, but you know, 0:22:32.160 --> 0:22:35.640 you have rifle rounds that one of the most popular 0:22:35.680 --> 0:22:38.800 to the most popular for hunting are six millimeter and 0:22:38.840 --> 0:22:44.600 seven millimeter. So and it's hard. There's no like, there's 0:22:44.640 --> 0:22:47.520 no debt one match for these. When you compare the 0:22:47.560 --> 0:22:51.480 imperial system, which is rooted in Great Britain, to the 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.360 metric system or you know, the millimeter system, if you will, 0:22:55.400 --> 0:22:59.480 for measuring measuring rounds even you know, look, even in 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:03.520 the mill terry, you have to learn the metric measurement 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:09.159 for firearms. So you know, like the standard round for 0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:11.000 years and years in the military has been a five 0:23:11.040 --> 0:23:13.720 point five to six millimeters round. That's what goes into 0:23:13.760 --> 0:23:17.240 the rifle. And it's roughly about the size believe it 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:21.760 or not, Dave, The diameter of the circumference of the 0:23:22.320 --> 0:23:25.639 actual round itself is about roughly the size of a 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:28.320 twenty two round. It's not that big. It's just the 0:23:28.359 --> 0:23:34.240 amount of powder or propellant that's placed into that particular round, 0:23:34.280 --> 0:23:37.119 and then the weight of the bullet is it's larger. 0:23:37.160 --> 0:23:39.840 The projectile is actually larger than say even a twenty 0:23:39.840 --> 0:23:43.440 two long rifle, and so the amount of powder that's 0:23:43.480 --> 0:23:47.119 put behind it, the propellant. When that round hits something, 0:23:47.560 --> 0:23:50.199 it can rip it apart. And most of those rounds 0:23:50.200 --> 0:23:56.560 are what are called flangible frangible fragmenting rounds, so when 0:23:56.600 --> 0:23:59.320 they hit a target, they kind of come apart. And 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:03.080 so you've got these tiny, little particulate rounds that are 0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:05.960 going into a body or bits of shrapnel and they're 0:24:06.000 --> 0:24:09.200 ripping things to shreds in there as well. So there's 0:24:09.560 --> 0:24:11.600 a huge variety and it takes it takes you a 0:24:11.640 --> 0:24:13.800 while to get used to this environment, you know, to 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:16.720 try to be able to spink to lingo because it's 0:24:16.840 --> 0:24:21.120 it's certainly a it's certainly a language all and of itself. 0:24:22.200 --> 0:24:25.680 Okay, but when you're actually looking at a body on scene, yeah, 0:24:25.720 --> 0:24:31.719 are you able are you able to understand what weapon 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:35.680 or what type of weapon was used before you get 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:37.120 them back? I mean, can you look at a body 0:24:37.119 --> 0:24:39.239 and go, yeah, that's a twenty two? I mean do 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:41.520 you can you do that? Or do you what happens 0:24:41.520 --> 0:24:43.520 on scene when you're dealing with somebody who is a 0:24:43.600 --> 0:24:45.320 victim of a being shot. 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:49.640 That's an excellent question because you you will see portrayed 0:24:49.640 --> 0:24:52.320 in movies. And I've even been around colleagues that will 0:24:52.320 --> 0:24:56.560 say that looks like a twenty two or that looks 0:24:56.600 --> 0:25:00.840 like a nine, and I would I'll learned early on 0:25:00.880 --> 0:25:03.159 in my career not to say that, because I was 0:25:03.200 --> 0:25:05.320 proven wrong so many times once we got back to 0:25:05.359 --> 0:25:09.399 the Morgue. And interestingly enough, Dave when I write, or 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:12.199 wrote when I was writing, and I still teach my 0:25:12.280 --> 0:25:20.119 students this at Jack State. When you write a report, okay, 0:25:20.280 --> 0:25:25.440 I I never say in one of my reports involving gunplay, 0:25:26.200 --> 0:25:31.359 I never say that the subject has a gunshot wound 0:25:31.800 --> 0:25:35.679 to the anterior chest, or to the posterior chest, or 0:25:35.680 --> 0:25:38.199 to the hit. I'll say that the individual has a 0:25:38.240 --> 0:25:42.560 circular or irregular shaped defect. Because if I call that, 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:45.879 if I call that defect or that hole in the 0:25:45.920 --> 0:25:51.159 body a gunshot wound in the field, and then that 0:25:51.320 --> 0:25:54.360 body has to make it back to the morgue. Well, 0:25:54.359 --> 0:25:57.560 when the forends of pathologist gets that the body in 0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:03.399 a in perfect conditions for examination with the surgical lights 0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:06.760 and everything, first off, they might look at that and say, yeah, 0:26:06.760 --> 0:26:12.160 that's that's not a gunshot wound. That person was pierced 0:26:12.200 --> 0:26:15.760 by something here that might resemble a gunshot wound, or 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:21.719 this is the tail end of a laceration. It's not 0:26:21.760 --> 0:26:23.840 a gunshot wound. But yet I've gone ahead and put 0:26:23.880 --> 0:26:27.639 it in an official report. And then if the pathologist 0:26:27.720 --> 0:26:31.160 report comes out, those two things are conflicting. When they're subpoena, 0:26:31.920 --> 0:26:33.560 you know, and they can put you on the stand 0:26:33.600 --> 0:26:36.240 and say, well, look, you know, you're a pathologist here, 0:26:36.400 --> 0:26:38.240 made a statement that this is a gunshot wound. But 0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:41.919 yet you're saying or that you said that it's a 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:45.160 gunshot wound, but they're saying that it's something other than that. 0:26:45.800 --> 0:26:50.119