1 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Good morning, peepsen. Welcome to Okay f Daily with Meet 2 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,720 Speaker 1: your Girl Danielle Moody. Recording from the home Bunker, Folks, 3 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: I have a jam packed legal show for you today 4 00:00:22,840 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 1: with our friend Glenn Kirshner, host of Justice Matters and 5 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:32,400 Speaker 1: MSNBC legal analyst. Breaking news came out of Georgia with 6 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:36,360 Speaker 1: regard to Fannie Willis and the grand jury that she 7 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:42,880 Speaker 1: had called in order to review an interview roughly seventy 8 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: five people, including Senator Lindsey Graham, who, if you all remember, 9 00:00:48,760 --> 00:00:52,279 Speaker 1: tried his damnedest not to have to sit before the 10 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: grand jury and answer any type of questions from Fannie 11 00:00:55,920 --> 00:01:01,520 Speaker 1: Willis and her team. Also, we heard from Offensberger, the 12 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:05,479 Speaker 1: Secretary of State who received the call for the ken 13 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: You find Me eleven thousand, seven hundred and some odd votes, 14 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:14,399 Speaker 1: and Rudy Giuliani among other cast of characters in the 15 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 1: Trump Stopped the Steal who were trying to steal orbit. 16 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:23,200 Speaker 1: Glenn will give us the details about, you know, what 17 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: was missed in mainstream media news, but what we need 18 00:01:27,040 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: to actually be keeping our eyes on. He will also 19 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: give us some details into the latest rounds of convictions 20 00:01:37,959 --> 00:01:42,839 Speaker 1: in the Oathkeeper's trial, which is separate from the initial 21 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: Oathkeeper's trial that featured the founder, Elmer Stewart Rhodes, and so, folks, 22 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:54,360 Speaker 1: what this episode lays out for me is that there 23 00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: is still a little bit, not a lot, but a 24 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,520 Speaker 1: little bit of hope in the way of Donald Trump 25 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:12,400 Speaker 1: and the architects of the insurrection being held criminally accountable 26 00:02:12,680 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: for their crimes. Now, folks, I believe that we are 27 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,880 Speaker 1: going to see the scenario where Donald Trump is indicted 28 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: by Fannie Willis apparently the only prosecutor that has a 29 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: backbone in the whole of the United States that has 30 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,919 Speaker 1: evidence on Donald Trump that if in fact she does 31 00:02:33,480 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 1: go after and indict Donald Trump and Rudy Giuliani and others, 32 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: that we may see for the first time in America's history, 33 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: a couple of things. One a criminal indictment of a 34 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: former president of the United States, and that same former 35 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 1: president of the United States, while under indictment running for 36 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: president of the United States. If this does not spell 37 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: fucking Banana Republic, I don't know what the fuck does. 38 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: Because this is some shit, some messy ass political shit 39 00:03:11,240 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: that you would hear about in other nations and think 40 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: to yourself, Oh, that would never happen in America. America 41 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: would never stand for it. Well, because Republicans don't stand 42 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 1: for a fucking thing. Donald Trump was never impeached in 43 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: the Senate, which gives him the ability to run for 44 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:31,120 Speaker 1: office again. And apparently we have no rules on the 45 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: bucks that say that if you are currently indicted for 46 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: a crime, that you can't run for office. Lord Jesus 47 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 1: take the wheel. So coming up next my jam packed 48 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: conversation with our friend Glenn Kirshner to walk us through 49 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: where we are on the road to indictment for Donald Trump. Because, Folks, 50 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: what we have seen is that, and I love this 51 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: phrase that Glenn uses, is that the boots of the insurrection, 52 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: those people that were literally on the ground in the 53 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: Capitol building are receiving penalties. But the people and the 54 00:04:09,160 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: person that pointed to the Capitol Building and told them 55 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: to go take their country back, the person that tweeted 56 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:19,839 Speaker 1: and got them to Washington, DC in the first fucking place, 57 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: is still golfing in Mara Lago while they're in federal prison. 58 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: So something here just doesn't fucking seem right. So the 59 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: question that we continue to ask on this show and 60 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 1: everywhere is if the boots are going to be held 61 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: responsible for the insurrection? When the fuck will the suits 62 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:50,800 Speaker 1: be held responsible for their strategy, plan and conspiracy to 63 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: thwart a free and fair election. That conversation with our 64 00:04:56,080 --> 00:05:02,599 Speaker 1: friend Glenn Kirshner is coming up next. Folks who know 65 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: that whenever I have the opportunity to chat with our friend, 66 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 1: the host of Justice Matters and MSNBC legal analyst and 67 00:05:10,120 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: former federal prosecutor, Glenn Kirshner, I am always thrilled. Yet 68 00:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 1: we never come with good news, But I'm always thrilled 69 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:20,279 Speaker 1: to just speak with you, Glenn, because you know you 70 00:05:20,360 --> 00:05:24,119 Speaker 1: make me feel less crazy. A lot of news has 71 00:05:24,279 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: been circulating around in the legal sphere, and I want 72 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,880 Speaker 1: to start with Fannie Willis in Georgia. I think that 73 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 1: one of the things that still provides I don't know, 74 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:41,839 Speaker 1: that mustard seed of hope I talk about often is 75 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:47,599 Speaker 1: the possibility that Georgia, Fulton County and the find me 76 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: the eleven thousand some odd votes call that Donald Trump 77 00:05:52,720 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: made to State the Secretary of State Ravensburger the fake electors. 78 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: That gives us probably about as close as we may 79 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:11,000 Speaker 1: see to an indictment of the architects around this quote 80 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: unquote stop this steal. So I want to give you 81 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 1: an opportunity to just bring us up to speed on 82 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: the latest that has come down out of Georgia and frankly, 83 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:26,360 Speaker 1: how you are feeling with that breaking news, Danielle. What 84 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: we heard Fulton County District Attorney Fannie Willis say an 85 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:34,719 Speaker 1: open court this week is the most concrete and direct 86 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:39,880 Speaker 1: thing we have ever heard a prosecutor who's investigating Donald 87 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: Trump say about the likelihood of charges. I viewed this 88 00:06:44,800 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: as an eleven on the legal Richter scale. I don't 89 00:06:47,520 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: know that it got the play it deserves, but she 90 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: said so just to set it up, you got the 91 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 1: funky too grand jury system in Georgia. The regular grand 92 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,600 Speaker 1: jury can indict people but can't issue subpoenas. The Special 93 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: grand Jury can issue subpoenas, but it can indict people. 94 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: So Fannie Willis ran seventy five reluctant witnesses through the 95 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:16,440 Speaker 1: special grand Jury. That grand jury then authors a report. Really, 96 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,920 Speaker 1: I believe the prosecutors authored the report and presented to 97 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: the Special grand Jury for its approval, talking about here's 98 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: the evidence, here's who committed crimes. Here's you who should 99 00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: be indicted. That report then goes back to the regular 100 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: grand jury. They look at it, they absorb it, the 101 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: prosecutors make their arguments, and then the regular grand jury 102 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 1: indicts people if that's what it believes is the right 103 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,840 Speaker 1: thing to do. So the news media went into court 104 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,679 Speaker 1: and brought suit to try to get that grand jury 105 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: report released publicly. Fannie Willis herself, not one of her 106 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:57,680 Speaker 1: assistant prosecutors, went into court and said, Judge, we strongly 107 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: object to the report's release at this time because if 108 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 1: it was released, that would interfere with the defendants plural. 109 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:10,920 Speaker 1: She emphasized plural multiple times in the hearing, with the 110 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: defendant's right to a fair trial. Danielle, you don't become 111 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 1: a defendant unless you're indicted. That was Fannie Willis communicating 112 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 1: people will be indicted. My second favorite word after defendants 113 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: that Fannie Willis used was imminent. She said, Judge, and 114 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:38,400 Speaker 1: are charging decisions are imminent. Fannie Willis is no nonsense. 115 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: She probably has all of the vertebrae and the strongest 116 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: spine of all of the prosecutors who have looked at 117 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:53,319 Speaker 1: Donald Trump's crimes and when she says defendants are coming 118 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:57,000 Speaker 1: and the charging decisions are imminent, I take it to 119 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: the bank. I don't know if imminent means days or weeks. 120 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,800 Speaker 1: I am. I am convinced that Fannie Willis has the 121 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 1: goods and she's not afraid to use them, and that 122 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: we're going to see the first indictments of Trump and 123 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 1: company coming from Georgia. Okay, a couple of questions here, 124 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,920 Speaker 1: just to remind people what those what would those indictments? 125 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: What would those charges be? Glenn, because again we have 126 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: been in this web of potential legal charges for Donald 127 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: Trump what seems to be well, frankly my whole adult 128 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: life because I live in New York. But then with 129 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: regard to the stop the steal the election, the documents cases, 130 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: blah blasso, tell us, just remind folks if this indictment 131 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 1: were to come down, one, what would the charges be? 132 00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 1: And then two who do we think these defendants are? 133 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: Because there again you said there were a parade of 134 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:08,480 Speaker 1: people that came in. We know that Senator Lindsey Graham 135 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 1: had fought tooth and nail not to sit before the 136 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: grand jury. We know that Rudy Giuliani also fought tooth 137 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 1: and nail not to sit before the grand jury. So 138 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 1: tell us who the cast of potential characters and her 139 00:10:21,480 --> 00:10:26,960 Speaker 1: defendants plural would be, so you know the charges. Let 140 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 1: me take one as an example. Under Georgia's state law, 141 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:36,079 Speaker 1: it is illegal to solicit election fraud, to ask an 142 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: election official or a state government official to engage in 143 00:10:40,360 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: some form of election fraud. And all she has to 144 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: do to prove that crime beyond a reasonable doubt is 145 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: push playing on the audio we actually see. I worked 146 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: wire tap cases, Danielle, and when you caught conspirators talking 147 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,080 Speaker 1: dirty on the phone about their drug deals, I call 148 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,280 Speaker 1: that a push play trial. You push play the jurors 149 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 1: hear the crime committed on audio tape, soliciting election fraud 150 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: under the laws of Georgia as a felony that I 151 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 1: think will be one of the lead counts against Donald Trump. 152 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:18,840 Speaker 1: I urged people to read the Brookings Institute deep dive 153 00:11:19,280 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: into all of the laws that the publicly available evidence 154 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: suggests Donald Trump and others committed. They cataloged more than 155 00:11:28,760 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: a dozen felony and misdemeanors alike that were violated, arguably 156 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: by what Trumpet Company did. The other big ticket crime. 157 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 1: I think we're going to see indicted as conspiracy. Remember, 158 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: Georgia has what I'll refer to as mini Rico laws. 159 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:47,679 Speaker 1: You have the federal Rico law, and then a lot 160 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 1: of the states adopted their own versions of the Rico 161 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:55,199 Speaker 1: laws called mini Rico laws. And Fannie Willis there are 162 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: some indications in the litigation and in the grand jury 163 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:03,760 Speaker 1: proceedings as they unfolded, that she was perhaps using George's 164 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: Rico laws to go after this as a Rico crew, 165 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:11,199 Speaker 1: as a corrupt organization, as a group that was making 166 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:15,480 Speaker 1: a concerted effort to violate the Georgia's state election laws 167 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: in order to get Donald Trump falsely corruptly declared the 168 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: winner of the presidential election in Georgia. So I think 169 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,280 Speaker 1: we might seek a conspiracy charge together with the substitutive 170 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: charges of election soliciting, election fraud and others. Who is 171 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 1: likely to be indicted certainly Donald Trump, certainly, Rudy Giuliani 172 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,480 Speaker 1: and Jenna Ellis. I say that because there's a lot 173 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: of reporting about how they made false statements to Georgia's 174 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:50,400 Speaker 1: state legislators trying to gin up these false claims of 175 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:54,080 Speaker 1: election fraud to try to undermine the elections results. I 176 00:12:54,120 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: think they are likely defendants, and listen Lindsey Graham. One 177 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: of the star witnesses against Lindsey Graham is Georgia's Secretary 178 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 1: of State Brad Raffensberger, who has very publicly and openly 179 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: and I believe also to the grand jury. Though we 180 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:12,880 Speaker 1: don't know precisely what he told the grand jury, he 181 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: very openly has said Lindsey Graham called me repeatedly, and 182 00:13:18,559 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: what he was saying to me I interpreted as Lindsey 183 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: Graham urging me to toss out lawfully cast ballots. That's 184 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: a quote from a Republican secretary of state about what 185 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:40,080 Speaker 1: a sitting republic senator from another state, not even from Georgia, 186 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: was urging him to do commit election fraud, solicit election fraud. So, 187 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: if there is a justice God, and I think that 188 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:54,960 Speaker 1: remains an open question, Lindsey Graham ought to be one 189 00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: of those names on the indictment. We will have to 190 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: see if Fannie Willis is comfortable with the evidence she 191 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 1: has supporting including Lindsay Graham as a criminal defendant. I 192 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 1: hope she has the goods. Based on public reporting, it 193 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:11,040 Speaker 1: looks like she might and I hope she decides it's 194 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: the right thing to do. Now, let me ask you this, Glenn, 195 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,319 Speaker 1: because this is something that I have been curious about. 196 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: So a couple of what was late last year the 197 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:25,880 Speaker 1: Trump organization, by being prosecuted in New York was found 198 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:32,120 Speaker 1: guilty of seventeen different charges, and one of the biggest 199 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:37,320 Speaker 1: being all sorts of fraud. Right, does that type of 200 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:45,040 Speaker 1: conviction play into the character of the people that we 201 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:49,040 Speaker 1: are talking about? Meaning, I know that Fannie Willis has 202 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:54,600 Speaker 1: her own you know, slight of evidence as it pertains 203 00:14:54,680 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: to the particular crimes that took place in Georgia. But 204 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 1: Donald Trump has and the Trump or well, I should say, 205 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,440 Speaker 1: the Trump organization with his name on it, has been 206 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: in you know, has been charged and found guilty of fraud. Right, 207 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:17,000 Speaker 1: So does that play in or does that play in 208 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,600 Speaker 1: in a legal sense or just in people's minds? Yes, 209 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: that's a great question. It certainly plays in factors in 210 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 1: when it comes to common sense, our commons, right, Right, 211 00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: does the factor in, you know, in a legally exploitable way? 212 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 1: The answer is generally no, because you know, there's common 213 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: sense and then there's legal sense, and rarely do those 214 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:49,840 Speaker 1: two things meet. Unfortunately, here's where it does factor in 215 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: in a couple of ways. First of all, any information 216 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 1: or evidence developed by one prosecutor in one jurisdiction, Ken 217 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: and I'm sure will be shared with other jurisdictions that 218 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:06,480 Speaker 1: are investigating the same people for similar crimes, because I 219 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: think it's too important for the Department of Justice and 220 00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 1: the prosecutors in Georgia and the prosecutors in New York 221 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,080 Speaker 1: not to be communicating with one another about the evidence 222 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: of crime that they're finding by Trump and his criminal associates. 223 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 1: So it would be stupid, encounter productive if prosecutors weren't 224 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: coordinating with one another to use and exploit, in an 225 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: appropriately legal sense, evidence that the other jurisdiction has developed. 226 00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: But it's not like if Donald Trump personally gets charged 227 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: in both Georgia and New York, it's not like the 228 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: New York jury will be told. Oh and by the way, folks, 229 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 1: he did some crimes down in Georgia too. Even if 230 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:53,880 Speaker 1: he had already been convicted of those crimes and was 231 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: now on trial in New York, that evidence probably wouldn't 232 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:02,800 Speaker 1: come in into the new prosecution unless a judge ruled 233 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: that it was relevant somehow it wasn't what we call 234 00:17:06,800 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: uncharged misconduct that was likely to unduly prejudice the defendant's 235 00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 1: right to a fair trial. These are legal issues that 236 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: would have to be litigated and sorted out. It may 237 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,320 Speaker 1: be that a judge rules, yeah, what he did in 238 00:17:19,359 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: Georgia was so inextricably intertwined, that's a legal term. With 239 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,160 Speaker 1: the crimes he committed in New York that a judge 240 00:17:27,160 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: would rule they were relevant for certain purposes and therefore 241 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 1: admissible at his New York trial. The other place that 242 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: directly comes in is if you're convicted of a crime 243 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 1: somewhere and you go to trial after you've been convicted, 244 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: and you take the stand and testify, you can be 245 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: cross examined with the prior crime you committed. You can 246 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:52,639 Speaker 1: be it's called impeaching the witness with a conviction, And 247 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 1: the law generally says, if you take the stand in 248 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: your own defensive trial and you have criminal convictions in 249 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: your past, those you're admissible for the jury to use 250 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:05,680 Speaker 1: to decide whether you're telling the truth today, So they 251 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:09,400 Speaker 1: go to your credibility. So those are the different ways 252 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: that stuff does or doesn't factor in when it comes 253 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: to multiple jurisdictions finding crimes and trying people. So to 254 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: close the loop just on Georgia before we move on 255 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:29,919 Speaker 1: to trumping companies other crimes. So give us your hypothesis 256 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:37,600 Speaker 1: on a timeline here. Okay, So Fannie Willis says, imminently, right, 257 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: you said, we don't know if that is days or weeks. 258 00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: Let's say that it's it's weeks from the moment that 259 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: an indictment comes down. How long are we going to 260 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:59,400 Speaker 1: an actual trial? Knowing that Donald Trump's main defense has 261 00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 1: always been to tap dance and run out the clock. 262 00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 1: So there's good news and bad news. The bad news 263 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:10,239 Speaker 1: is criminal trials, once there's an indictment, once somebody's been 264 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 1: charged and hauled into court for the first time and 265 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,920 Speaker 1: a trial date has been set, criminal trials can take 266 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 1: a while. I wouldn't expect a trial date to be 267 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:23,200 Speaker 1: set after Donald Trump has been indicted for between six 268 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: months and a year out. That is just kind of 269 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: a rule of thumb how long it takes to get 270 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,480 Speaker 1: a case to trial. So the bad news is we'll 271 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: still have to wait for a little bit. The good 272 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,680 Speaker 1: news is when we see Donald Trump forever running out 273 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:42,439 Speaker 1: the clock in litigation, right, always trying to delay his 274 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: day of reckoning. That can be done in civil cases, 275 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: civil lawsuits, and that up to this point is the 276 00:19:50,680 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: only thing we've seen Donald Trump involved in because he 277 00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:57,399 Speaker 1: hasn't been charged criminally with anything, right, But it can't 278 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:02,080 Speaker 1: be done in criminal cases. Why because as judges are 279 00:20:02,119 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: making decisions, you know, on motions, on what evidence can 280 00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: be admitted, and all these decisions that have to be 281 00:20:11,000 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: made in the run up to a criminal trial, none 282 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:19,679 Speaker 1: of those are appealable. So a defendant delay his trial 283 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:23,000 Speaker 1: date by filing these appeals that go up and down 284 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: and up and down the appellate court chain the way 285 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,760 Speaker 1: you can in civil cases. The only time you can 286 00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:33,320 Speaker 1: appeal anything, with a couple of very minor exceptions, the 287 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:36,240 Speaker 1: only time a defendant can appeal anything is after you've 288 00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 1: gotten the trial, you've been convicted, you've been sentenced, your 289 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 1: case is over. Then you can file an appeal of 290 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:47,760 Speaker 1: your conviction. So Donald Trump cannot weaponize the delay in 291 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: the court system in the criminal case the way he 292 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: always has been able to do in a civil case. 293 00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:59,400 Speaker 1: Oh that is good news, Glenn. Okay, So switching gear 294 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,360 Speaker 1: is out of Jorge Jeff and and pulling back and 295 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 1: looking at where what has happened recently with the next 296 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,040 Speaker 1: slate of Oathkeepers. Right a couple of weeks ago, the 297 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,840 Speaker 1: last time that we had you on the show, we 298 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: had the convictions come down of seditious conspiracy for the 299 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: former founder of the Oath Keepers and two other people, 300 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:28,680 Speaker 1: and then they had separate trials that were set up 301 00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: for the next slate. Tell us what happened with those 302 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:38,240 Speaker 1: cases and how, if at all, it is going to 303 00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:44,160 Speaker 1: inform this sloth like Department of Justice, an Attorney General 304 00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 1: that is signaling to me and anyone who I think 305 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:51,640 Speaker 1: pays attention that he ain't doing not a goddamn thing 306 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 1: as it pertains to going after Donald Trump and the 307 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,560 Speaker 1: architects of this crime. Because frankly, what I said the 308 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,560 Speaker 1: other day on Twitter, Glenn is that I look at 309 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: who is in the House of Representatives right now and 310 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:09,680 Speaker 1: realize that Merritt Garland is to blame for why these 311 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 1: people have not been indicted for their involvement in the insurrection. 312 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,679 Speaker 1: Knowing that many of those House members were in fact 313 00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: involved in the stop to Steal rally and involved in 314 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 1: given recognisance tours to who would then become insurrectionists. Yeah, 315 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: don't let me forget to talk about the sloth like 316 00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,119 Speaker 1: pace of the Department of Justice at the end of 317 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:36,159 Speaker 1: this answer. But I want to start with the Oathkeepers trial. 318 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: So the first Oathkeeper's trial was against five Oathkeepers, kind 319 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:44,119 Speaker 1: of some of the upper echelon of the Oathkeepers organization, 320 00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: including the president, the leader, Elmer Stuart Rhodes, the guy 321 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,639 Speaker 1: with the eye patch because as a firearms instructor he 322 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 1: shot his own eye out. You can't make that up. 323 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 1: So Elmer Rhodes and his top lieutenant, Kelly Megs were 324 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 1: convicted of the lead charged seditious conspiracy, the attempted violent 325 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:06,159 Speaker 1: overthrow of the government, and all five of those defendants 326 00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:10,800 Speaker 1: were convicted of several other charges. And that was the 327 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:13,960 Speaker 1: first seditious conspiracy conviction in more than a decade in 328 00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:17,120 Speaker 1: the United States. These cases aren't often brought, and when 329 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:19,880 Speaker 1: they are, they're not always successful. So that was actually 330 00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: a really big deal. Now then, and I attended that 331 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 1: entire seven week trial, and the evidence was powerful, it 332 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: was overwhelming, proved beyond a reasonable doubt the guilt of 333 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: these five Oathkeepers. Then we went to part two of 334 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 1: the oath keeper's trial four more defendants, and I didn't 335 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:43,679 Speaker 1: attend that trial. Again, my fellow former colleagues and my 336 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 1: friends were the prosecutors and that one as well, and 337 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: the jury just hands down convicted all four of those 338 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,720 Speaker 1: oath keepers of seditious conspiracy and other charges related to 339 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:59,119 Speaker 1: the insurrection. And of course the Proud Boys are on 340 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: trial right now, and I would bet buck my betting limit. 341 00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:03,920 Speaker 1: I'm not a high roller. I would bet a buck 342 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:07,159 Speaker 1: that they are all about to be convicted of seditious 343 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,720 Speaker 1: conspiracy as well. It's almost becoming routine that the federal 344 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: prosecutors are indicting the boots of the insurrection for seditious conspiracy. Now, 345 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,480 Speaker 1: of course, the Department of Justice hasn't managed to rise 346 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: above the boots of the insurrection, the people that Donald 347 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:28,720 Speaker 1: Trump told to attack the capital and start to take 348 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: on the suits of the insurrection. The suits are out 349 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 1: there holding dinner parties and fundraisers and playing golf and 350 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 1: you committing any other number of crimes because they haven't 351 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: been held accountable for any of their crimes. With Respected 352 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 1: DJ's sloth like pace. Here's what has me so upset. 353 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: What the Department of Justice is doing by waiting now 354 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: more than two years to hold accountable bowl the suits 355 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 1: of the insurrection, the people who organized, funded, orchestrated, and 356 00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 1: incited and directed the attack on the Capitol. What they 357 00:25:09,880 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 1: have done is they've sent a powerful message that if 358 00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:19,320 Speaker 1: you in the future try to overthrow our democracy, let 359 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: me tell you what's going to happen. We're going to 360 00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:26,720 Speaker 1: give you a full two years and counting to come 361 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:30,159 Speaker 1: up with your next move, maybe to try to do 362 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:34,119 Speaker 1: it again, maybe to avoid accountability, maybe to tamper with witnesses, 363 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,160 Speaker 1: but we will give you a full two plus years 364 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: to try to come up with your next move. That 365 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:47,040 Speaker 1: is law enforcement insanity, because you're not deterring crime, you're 366 00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:53,800 Speaker 1: encouraging crime. This is something I don't understand from a 367 00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,840 Speaker 1: department that I served for more than for nearly quarter 368 00:25:56,880 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: of a century. This is not the way it worked 369 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,320 Speaker 1: when I was there, right, I understand this is an 370 00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:07,359 Speaker 1: unusual case, But frankly, there are more reasons to hold 371 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: these people accountable immediately for trying to kill our democracy, 372 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 1: not less reasons. So the sloth like pace I think 373 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,399 Speaker 1: every day works to the extreme detriment of the health 374 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: and continued viability of our democracy. You know, Glenn, I 375 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: gotta tell you, you know, I speak to so many 376 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:35,320 Speaker 1: legal folks, and you know, the other day I spoke 377 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:40,119 Speaker 1: with Ellie Mistol, who is the Justice correspondent for the nation, 378 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: and Ellie said to me, in no uncertain terms, ding, 379 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: Llen ain't happening. He's like, I knew that when Merrick 380 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 1: Garland was appointed to be Attorney General, anyone else, Doug Jones, 381 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,840 Speaker 1: Sally Yates would have been the people that had the 382 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 1: backbone and the fortitude to get this done. And we 383 00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: kept saying, oh, Merrek Garland just needs more time, but 384 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:11,600 Speaker 1: people knew, based on the cases that he has overseen, 385 00:27:11,640 --> 00:27:14,080 Speaker 1: based on the kind of person that he is, that 386 00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: if you wanted justice to be done, an accountability to 387 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 1: be delivered to the feet of Donald Trump and his minions, 388 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: Merrick Garland won the guy. And he also wouldn't have 389 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: been the guy apparently to sit on this type of 390 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:33,639 Speaker 1: vicious Supreme Court either, right. So I'm just I wonder 391 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 1: I want to get your thoughts on that assertion by 392 00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 1: other friend of the show, Ellie Misstell. Yes, the first 393 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,959 Speaker 1: of all, I love Ellie and I missed the days 394 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 1: when he and I would sit around that round table 395 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: with David up with and it was so liberating because 396 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,080 Speaker 1: we got to talk about everything for the entire hour 397 00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 1: instead of just two or three minutes at a time. 398 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,040 Speaker 1: And I was not only in formed by Ellie, but 399 00:28:01,080 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: I was always amused because the dude, he is unique 400 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:11,200 Speaker 1: in his ability to inject humor with deadly serious information 401 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:14,240 Speaker 1: and make you laugh and learn at the same time. 402 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: My hat's off to Ellie, and I can't disagree with 403 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,600 Speaker 1: his observations that because it hasn't happened yet, there is 404 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:27,359 Speaker 1: a sense that it ain't never going to happen. I 405 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: did agree. I still think it's going to happen. Justice 406 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:38,280 Speaker 1: has been delayed, Will it be entirely denied? I don't 407 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:42,480 Speaker 1: think so. And here's why Merrick Garland has obviously turned 408 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 1: out to be not the right man for the moment. 409 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 1: Right he has not risen to meet the urgency of 410 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:52,600 Speaker 1: the moment, as we just discussed, because tomorrow's aspiring dictator 411 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: will have years to plan his next move after he 412 00:28:56,080 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: tries to overthrow our democracy. That's a significant failing of 413 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 1: Merrick Arland's Department of Justice. However, I still don't believe it. 414 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:06,280 Speaker 1: I know so many of the people who work there, 415 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: I worked with so many of them. I still don't 416 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,160 Speaker 1: believe that they have reached the conclusion that we're prepared 417 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,800 Speaker 1: to give our democracy away to Donald Trump and to 418 00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:22,920 Speaker 1: whoever rises up in Donald Trump's image next, because they 419 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,000 Speaker 1: will be giving it all away if they don't hold 420 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: Trump and Jeffrey Clark and John Eastman and Rudy Giuliani 421 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:34,560 Speaker 1: and Bannon and Flynn and Stone and Jenna Ellison and 422 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,840 Speaker 1: Sidney Powell, and I could go on and on and 423 00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: on accountable for trying to unlawfully and unconstitutionally overturn our democracy, 424 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:49,680 Speaker 1: because if they decide we're not going to charge those 425 00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:53,120 Speaker 1: people for those crimes, they will in fact have given 426 00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:58,240 Speaker 1: our democracy away. I still, in my heart of hearts, 427 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: can't conceive of a scenario or a reason that they 428 00:30:03,320 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: would reach the conclusion we're giving our democracy away. We're 429 00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: done here. I just don't. I don't see a declination 430 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,400 Speaker 1: of charges. They've taken too long. They will come too late, 431 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: maybe not too late, to save our democracy for the 432 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: time being. Listen, maybe one of the best things that 433 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 1: I would love to chat with Ellie about this, maybe 434 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: one of The best things that happened is these matters 435 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,360 Speaker 1: were taken out of Merrick Garland's hands when he appointed 436 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,160 Speaker 1: Jack Smith. Now I am not prepared to sing Jack 437 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:37,480 Speaker 1: Smith's praises and call him the hero. Because we had Muller, 438 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: we had Garland, now we have Jack Smith. How many 439 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: times you would fool us? But I do think Jack Smith, 440 00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: given his credentials, his bona fidays, his body of work, 441 00:30:47,440 --> 00:30:50,440 Speaker 1: the guy goes after politicians left, right and center, brings 442 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,280 Speaker 1: the hard cases when some loses. Some has gone after 443 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,560 Speaker 1: war criminals. I mean, if ever there was a prosecutor 444 00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 1: who seems to be up to the task right and 445 00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: he has proven that he has done things moving in 446 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: one hundred miles an hour that Merrick Garland never did, 447 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: but he should have done eighteen months ago. So listen, 448 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: if that's a little bit of hope, because now it 449 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: is in Jack Smith's hands. If he gets it right, great, 450 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: If he gets it wrong, we're losing our democracy. Is 451 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:26,120 Speaker 1: their last question for you, Glenn, Is there a scenario 452 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:28,600 Speaker 1: and I, oh my god, I don't even want to 453 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:30,720 Speaker 1: say it, but I'm going to say it. Is there 454 00:31:30,720 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: a scenario where charges are brought for Joe Biden and 455 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:44,320 Speaker 1: Donald Trump to have this perception of, oh, we go 456 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: after everybody like is because again, the Justice Department, you know, 457 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:57,760 Speaker 1: Mulla report said we don't indict sitting presidents documents, documents, 458 00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:02,640 Speaker 1: because the media is not making any any distinction between 459 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 1: the crime that Donald Trump committed and the mistake that 460 00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 1: Joe Biden and now Mike Pence may have committed. First 461 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:17,920 Speaker 1: of all, as much as I disagree with the Department 462 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: of Justice policy, the OLC Office of Legal Counsel memo 463 00:32:22,840 --> 00:32:27,440 Speaker 1: that says you can't indict a sitting criminal president, you know, 464 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: that's what kept Donald Trump out of hot water, plus 465 00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:33,160 Speaker 1: a corrupt Attorney General, Bill Barr. As much as I 466 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,959 Speaker 1: disagree with that memo because I think it moves us 467 00:32:35,960 --> 00:32:39,959 Speaker 1: in the direction of being a banana Republic, Joe Biden, 468 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: based on that memo, can't be indicted, certainly not while 469 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,280 Speaker 1: he's president. I don't embrace that. I don't celebrate that. 470 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: I don't think Joe Biden committed crimes based on the 471 00:32:49,040 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: available evidence. You know, right, you know, Joe Biden and 472 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: now Mike Pence went through their stuff for whatever, prompted 473 00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 1: by what we don't know precise found things that they 474 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,800 Speaker 1: shouldn't have, and immediately both of them. I'm no fan 475 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 1: of Mike Pence, but both of these people said, Okay, 476 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,880 Speaker 1: we found stuff that shouldn't be in our papers. Please 477 00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:13,800 Speaker 1: take them national Archives. DJ. We need to let you know, 478 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:16,000 Speaker 1: come in and search, do what you need to do. 479 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: There's no criminal intent there. There may not even be 480 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:23,800 Speaker 1: a criminal act. But those are not prosecutable cases. And 481 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 1: Merrick Garland, in his zeal to be perceived as fair 482 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: and even handed to everyone, he's not gonna say, well, 483 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: I have if we're going to charge Donald Trump, then 484 00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 1: we have to charge Mike Pence and Joe Biden too, 485 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: to give the superficial appearance of fairness. That's not fairness. 486 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: If Mike Pence and Joe Biden didn't commit crimes, it's 487 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,840 Speaker 1: an abuse of power. So I am less worried about that. 488 00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: But Danielle, it feels like today we need to worry 489 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:56,760 Speaker 1: about everything. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. 490 00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:01,479 Speaker 1: So I'm like, while in a normal a society, that 491 00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 1: would seem like something we don't need to worry about. 492 00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:10,239 Speaker 1: Nothing surprises me in America today. As always, Glenn, I 493 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: appreciate your thorough, thorough look into where we are in 494 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,920 Speaker 1: the march to indictment, and it looks like once again 495 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:24,120 Speaker 1: all eyes are on Georgia. So whenever that comes been down, 496 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 1: we will want to be with you immediately, so appreciate 497 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:39,160 Speaker 1: me talking. That is it for me today, dear friends 498 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:43,280 Speaker 1: on Woke a f as always power to the people 499 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: and to all the people. Power, get woke and stay 500 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:48,239 Speaker 1: woke as fuck.