1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,680 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,080 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. Hello, and welcome back to 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: the show. My name is Nuel. Our colleague Matt is 6 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 1: on Adventures. They call me Ben. We're joined as always 7 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: with our super producer Paul Mission controlled decade. Most importantly, 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: you are you, You are here, and that makes this 9 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: the stuff they don't want you to know. Quick disclaimer 10 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 1: at the top. Today's episode contains at times graphic material 11 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,640 Speaker 1: involving coercion, brainwashing, and sexual abuse. As such, this may 12 00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 1: not be appropriate for all listeners, but we can assure 13 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 1: you this is one doozy of a story, and it's 14 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:01,319 Speaker 1: one that a lot of people in the US might 15 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: not know no other than a few articles by Broadly 16 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: and Vice. Right, Yeah, and you know precious little about it. 17 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 1: And very quickly Um entered into a deep dive that 18 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,320 Speaker 1: became kind of a nose dive down the rabbit hole 19 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: of this uh infamous, fascinating, complex and most likely diabolical 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,680 Speaker 1: dude named Odd non act. Yes, our exploration takes us 21 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: across the Atlantic all the way to Turkey. It's the 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 1: story of Occult's creationism and controversy. So let's learn a 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: little bit about the now infamous Odd non Actar. Here 24 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 1: are the facts. You may have heard of this guy 25 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 1: called Odd non Hoka, or you may have even read 26 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,640 Speaker 1: one of his many books and pamphlets written under the 27 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: pen name Haroon Yaha. Uh spoiler, We're pretty sure he 28 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: didn't write a lot of these himself. But he was 29 00:01:53,720 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: born in Ankara, Turkey, in nineteen fifty six, and he 30 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: was growing up in a pretty well to do, pretty 31 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 1: connected secular family. But he studied a lot of religious 32 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: ideology growing up. This was something that always captivated him, 33 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: even as he went to school quick secondary and far 34 00:02:14,440 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 1: less important. Disclaimer. I am now ensconced in my new 35 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:21,040 Speaker 1: house and there is some construction going on outside on 36 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: a deck situation, and so if you hear some banging 37 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: or saws or something intermittently, I please extend my my 38 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 1: deepest apologies. But back to act Uh. In nineteen seventy nine, 39 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,240 Speaker 1: he went to Istanbul and enrolled in my Mars sent 40 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 1: On Fine Arts University, where he wanted to study architecture, 41 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: specifically interior architecture, which I guess is that is that 42 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,320 Speaker 1: how far removed is that from interior design. I think 43 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of the same thing, right, I was wondering 44 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 1: the same thing. It might be specifically related to the 45 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: construction of mosque. You know, the interior of a mosque 46 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 1: is so can be so beautifully. Yeah, it might be 47 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: that it would be almost a discipline that would be 48 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: very specific to that part of the world. Yes, agreed. 49 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,079 Speaker 1: We want to give a shout out to a work 50 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: called the Mahdi. Where's our money? This is a great 51 00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: source online about this guy and his rise and fall. 52 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: So while he was in university, like you were saying, no, 53 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:24,000 Speaker 1: studying interior architecture, he also becomes involved in religious activism. 54 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: This was a really interesting time for anyone in Turkey 55 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 1: to be a religious activist because just one year later, 56 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:33,600 Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty, there was a coup and a military 57 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:39,480 Speaker 1: junta took over. Things were tense. Turkey was highly politically 58 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: culturally unstable at this time, and the like the two 59 00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:48,520 Speaker 1: overall groups that are beefing are secular forces that want, 60 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: in their opinion, they want to modernize the country by 61 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: which they may make it less religious and then there 62 00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: was a wave of Islamic fundamentalist or you could even 63 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: say militants, and they believed that that a secular Turkey 64 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: represented a turning away from God. So these people both 65 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:12,119 Speaker 1: are very short in their ideology and they're very much 66 00:04:12,160 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: playing highlander rules. There can be only one at the 67 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,599 Speaker 1: throne of government. And during this time Octar there's a 68 00:04:19,640 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: there's a mosque near his school, it's the Mala Mosque, 69 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,800 Speaker 1: and he goes there and meets with other people, other 70 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:32,600 Speaker 1: religious scholars and students and activists, and according to some 71 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:37,080 Speaker 1: of his ex colleagues, he later becomes something of a 72 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: religious zealot, but not what you're thinking of, because his 73 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 1: zealotry becomes very unique, as we'll find. Yeah, he's essentially 74 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: like UM, trying to reform in some ways Islam, specifically 75 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 1: as it pertains to women. The idea of women UH, 76 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: the way women are treated in women's place ins the 77 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 1: society UM, which is interesting on its face, right because 78 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: I mean, we know that like a big controversy surrounding 79 00:05:06,680 --> 00:05:11,680 Speaker 1: hardline fundamentalist Muslim UH culture is often that you know, 80 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 1: the treatment of women is this is very you know, retrograde. UM. 81 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: The idea that they are required to kind of cover 82 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: their bodies in order to not act as temptations to 83 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: men that they are somehow like Uh, I guess vessels 84 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 1: of sin in some ways. I mean again, please, any 85 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:32,720 Speaker 1: Muslims out there, fundamentals Muslims out there, Um, this is 86 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 1: zero shade on anyone's religious choice. I just think these 87 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: are observations that most anybody could make. But if I'm 88 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 1: getting it wrong, please call me on it. But my 89 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 1: point is, two women who live in this culture, I 90 00:05:43,839 --> 00:05:49,600 Speaker 1: could see how this type of thinking would be interesting potentially. Yeah, say, 91 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,839 Speaker 1: there's a there's a guide named edyt Uxel who will 92 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: will mention a couple of times here. Uh. And according 93 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: to him, Uh, he's the one who at the Mola Mosque, 94 00:05:59,680 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: Gay oak Tar this idea when he said, you know, 95 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: there's not a requirement where his job in the Koran 96 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: oak Tar took this and ran with it. And I 97 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: agree with your point that this could be um an 98 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 1: attractive and maybe more free seeming belief system for a 99 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: lot of a lot of younger folks who maybe felt 100 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: oppressed by society. He wasn't, by the way, preaching to 101 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,040 Speaker 1: just anyone at this time like a lot of charismatic 102 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:33,039 Speaker 1: cult leaders. He is targeting folks. He's targeting people from 103 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:37,400 Speaker 1: well connected, wealthy families in Istanbul, folks who are young 104 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 1: and impressionable and have access to money and power. Not 105 00:06:41,600 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: everybody agreed with him, especially as his beliefs got more, 106 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: let's say, idiosyncratic over time. But everybody agreed on one thing, 107 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: hot Dog. They said, this guy is charismatic. You know 108 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: what I mean. You could hang out, you could have 109 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 1: tea with him. You might not agree with him, but 110 00:06:57,680 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: he'll make you laugh. He'll give you something to think about. 111 00:07:00,440 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: You know, he's got a a public personality, you know, 112 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: larger than life. He's here, does he's he's fond of 113 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: like dancing, you kind of like techno music and uh 114 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: find suits. He has a very distinct kind of haircut 115 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: and and the way he styles his beard. I mean, 116 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: he really is this kind of almost televangelist kind of figure. 117 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: It's it's a different style than what where used toe 118 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: here with like these prosperity theology uh folks that you 119 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: might see on TV, these mega churches. But it's got 120 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:35,360 Speaker 1: a similar air to that, don't you think, Ben, Yeah, 121 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:37,800 Speaker 1: I agree, and that there are a lot of analogs 122 00:07:37,840 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: we can draw, because, as we'll find, he is extremely 123 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: interested in preaching through mass media. Right. And he starts, 124 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: you know, he starts in the eighties, which very different 125 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 1: media landscape. Sometime between night two and four, he forms 126 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 1: a solid group of followers. They cohere to a group 127 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: of about thirty and then this group starts growing because 128 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:10,080 Speaker 1: he's looking. He's recruiting. He's having his followers recruit kids 129 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: from a private high school. And just like the other ones, 130 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: they're well can they're from well connected, well to do families. 131 00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: But a bonus for Oaktar, they're also even younger. So 132 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 1: he preaches what he calls a refined and urbanized version 133 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 1: of existing teachings to the children of the privileged class. 134 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: And he says, look, we're gonna avoid all the stuffy, old, 135 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: buttoned up traditions. We're gonna remember what's really important. Here 136 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 1: are the things we fight against. We fight against left 137 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: wing ideologies like Marxism and communism. But of all the 138 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: things I hate the most as Altar, the most dangerous 139 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:56,360 Speaker 1: thing ever is evolutionary theory and Darwinism. They're the devil's 140 00:08:56,400 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: back door. Oh my goodness. Okay, And this makes sense, right, 141 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: I mean, well, okay, let me walk that back just 142 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:09,079 Speaker 1: to slightly in the context of fundamental belief in a 143 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,599 Speaker 1: singular God as a creator. Uh, Darwinism is this is 144 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,959 Speaker 1: a little bit of a sticky wicket, right, It's a 145 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,760 Speaker 1: little inconvenient. Um. Of course, we know there are plenty 146 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 1: of Christians who believe in God and believe in you know, 147 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:28,320 Speaker 1: the Bible, in whether it can complete strict constructionist version 148 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: or you know, more like comparable or like kind of 149 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: like an allegory, who also believe in evolution. There are 150 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: plenty of scientists who are devout religious people who believe 151 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,320 Speaker 1: in science just as strongly as they believe in religion. Um. 152 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,600 Speaker 1: And given that he's this guy Actar is going for 153 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: a more quote unquote progressive form of Islam, you think 154 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 1: maybe that would include science and be like, oh no, 155 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 1: we we we we allow women to be treated, uh, 156 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,320 Speaker 1: not only as equals, but that we'll get to this 157 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: as superior. But also yes, science can coexist with No, 158 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: that is not the direct and he chose. In fact, 159 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,160 Speaker 1: in fact, he's he's almost more before people thought of 160 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 1: him in the context of this group and as this 161 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: kind of de facto cult leader. He really was considered 162 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: a religious scholar of uh of creationism. Yeah, exactly, And 163 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: you know this, Uh, this is a point that I 164 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,240 Speaker 1: know will be important to many of our listeners who 165 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: are themselves of the Islamic faith. Uh. Overall, Islam is 166 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,840 Speaker 1: quite diverse, more so than I think many people outside 167 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: of Islam understand. And just like you said, no, Islamic 168 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: views on evolution have have a wide range, and he 169 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:44,599 Speaker 1: is very far on the creationism and of the spectrum. 170 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,960 Speaker 1: But people like him and they respect him as a 171 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: scholar up to a point. And at this point you 172 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 1: would say, you know, if you're an average person in 173 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: Turkey might say, so far, so good. I mean, many 174 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: people of the Islamic faith might disagree with him on 175 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 1: various points. Some people were already saying this is getting 176 00:11:04,000 --> 00:11:07,760 Speaker 1: kind of cultic. But in general, people can believe what 177 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: they want, so long as they're not hurting anyone. Uh, 178 00:11:11,280 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 1: that's the idea. Yeah, or involved in some egregious level 179 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:20,560 Speaker 1: of organized crime or criminal activity, um, which you know, 180 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:24,319 Speaker 1: you could argue has varying degrees of quote unquote hurting people. Um, 181 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: there are no victims crimes most of the time. But uh, yeah, 182 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,000 Speaker 1: it's the thing. My question for you, Ben is did 183 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:34,920 Speaker 1: he pursue any higher degrees beyond his interior architecture studies 184 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,920 Speaker 1: that would allow him to like officially be considered like 185 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: a member of like the kind of literati or was 186 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:42,240 Speaker 1: this sort of like he was like a self styled 187 00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:46,920 Speaker 1: almost like armchair uh scholar, Like you mean like when 188 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,920 Speaker 1: some preachers here in the US just start calling themselves bishops. Yes, 189 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: that yea. So he started writing a lot or publishing 190 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 1: a lot, uh, we should say, and we're talking about 191 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 1: pamphlets like the Theory of Evolution, which is his mysticism 192 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:09,680 Speaker 1: and science sounding words to kind of attack evolutionary theory. 193 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:15,479 Speaker 1: But to your question, in he enrolls at the philosophy 194 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: department of Istanbul University, which is quite prestigious, and this 195 00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:23,640 Speaker 1: gets him more news coverage, This gets him closer right 196 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: to attaining that kind of higher degree. But for him, 197 00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:32,400 Speaker 1: more important now is the goal of acquiring more followers, 198 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: particularly impressionable female followers from wealthy backgrounds. And then of 199 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 1: course he starts getting into uh some pretty wacky do 200 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories and he's got an audience for it. Yeah, yeah, 201 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: there shouldn't need an audience for it. And what he's 202 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:58,680 Speaker 1: doing is he's making some pretty hot takes, uh, in 203 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 1: the interest of of turning heads. Right. Um. He publishes 204 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: a page book titled Judaism and Freemasonry, UM, which I believe, 205 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, man had some pretty anti Semitic 206 00:13:13,960 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: bos to it. Oh yeah, and it was. It's Uh, 207 00:13:18,320 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: it's one of those books that it's not super original. 208 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:25,439 Speaker 1: It's kind of like his own take on the classics. 209 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: It's a it's sort of a cover album of the 210 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: idea that some hidden group influences the media, academia, and 211 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 1: the political structures of not just Turkey but the world 212 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,160 Speaker 1: to quote erode the spiritual, religious, and moral values of 213 00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,680 Speaker 1: the Turkish people and make them like animals. So boom, 214 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,079 Speaker 1: now we got some hate speech. And you're right, he 215 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,679 Speaker 1: is courting attention and controversy and this gets him, you know, 216 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 1: the clicks figuratively speaking, so he starts leaning into it. 217 00:13:56,480 --> 00:14:00,040 Speaker 1: And unfortunately, this kind of anti Semitism isn't all that 218 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 1: unusual in Turkey. But remember there's still that secular religious tension, 219 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: so secular authorities have their eyes on him, They have 220 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:12,480 Speaker 1: their eyes on anyone they think might um. Try to 221 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: have another coup and create a theocracy. So he gets arrested, 222 00:14:18,880 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: locked up for almost two years, nineteen months, and he 223 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,280 Speaker 1: never gets formally charged. He eventually gets let go. Uh, 224 00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: and I think the one of the tipping points actually, 225 00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:30,800 Speaker 1: just to give you a sense of how tense the 226 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:34,720 Speaker 1: country was, is oak Tar was in a newspaper interview 227 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,120 Speaker 1: and he said, I am from the Nation of Abraham 228 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:41,560 Speaker 1: and Turkish ethnicity, and that was a bridge too far. 229 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: But you know, just like just like the propagating anti 230 00:14:46,200 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 1: Semitism and telling people you've got your own take on Islam, 231 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:56,920 Speaker 1: getting arrested gave him more press. It gave him more publicity. 232 00:14:56,960 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 1: That's what this guy is all about. So his movement 233 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:02,119 Speaker 1: grows and grows those through the eighties through the nineties, 234 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: and they start to have that classic original recipe mission 235 00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:12,560 Speaker 1: creep of all cults. He becomes more and more of 236 00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:15,640 Speaker 1: a messianic figure. He's not now, he's not just some 237 00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: guy talking. He's a guy revealing these truths that only 238 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: he can reveal. And uh, maybe we talked just a 239 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: second about his books were still just in the facts. 240 00:15:27,320 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 1: We're not in the crazy part yet, because Noel, you 241 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:32,680 Speaker 1: and I were talking briefly off air, and it sounds like, 242 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: even though his name is on a ton of of pamphlets, 243 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:39,560 Speaker 1: shout out to Paul Mission Control, Paul searched for the 244 00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:43,520 Speaker 1: guy's name, and his occupation came up as Turkish pamphleteer. 245 00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 1: But even though he wrote he wrote all these books 246 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 1: and pamphlets. Uh, word on the street that we heard 247 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:54,160 Speaker 1: is that maybe his followers were the actual authors. Well 248 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,040 Speaker 1: that's the thing, right, Like, when you take on that 249 00:15:56,080 --> 00:16:00,120 Speaker 1: kind of messianic role or that like truly cult to 250 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: a kind of position, you essentially like own everything that 251 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:08,160 Speaker 1: your followers do because they're doing it all like serving 252 00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: at your pleasure, almost under the guise of like self improvement. 253 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: But at the end of the day, they're just kind 254 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: of another tool in your portfolio. Yeah, exactly. And he 255 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:21,960 Speaker 1: starts a lot of found he likes starting organizations. He 256 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:25,560 Speaker 1: starts one called the Science Research Foundation. Um, we are 257 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: not native Turkish speakers, so we're gonna mispronounce this, but 258 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 1: it's bilim aura stirma vakfi or behavi is what it 259 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:37,880 Speaker 1: stands for. And they hold all these conferences and seminars 260 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: kind of like a scientology pr push where they want 261 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,360 Speaker 1: to say, we're gonna tell you the real causes of 262 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: social and political conflicts. I mean, I love the just 263 00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 1: bare bones, basic nature of the name of this because 264 00:16:52,640 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: it's so simple that it implies like we are the 265 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: authority on science, we are the Science Research Foundation. We're 266 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: doing it so you don't have to us when we 267 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: say that evolution is bogus. Also, a lot of his 268 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 1: books contain images of like fake fossils and things like that. 269 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,119 Speaker 1: By the way, that's a that's the thing too. His 270 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: ten toes down on hading evolution. It's like the worst 271 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: thing to him. But this leads other members of the 272 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: media have had their eye on it to start openly 273 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: calling anything from a cult like organization to a secretive 274 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: Islamic sect. He starts another thing in called the Foundation 275 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,560 Speaker 1: for Protection of National Values, and this was a networking 276 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: opportunity for him to start connecting with conservative nationalist organizations 277 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:48,479 Speaker 1: and UH influencers, powerful individuals. UH. Two years later, by 278 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:51,119 Speaker 1: the way, since nothing happens in a vacuum, there is 279 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:56,399 Speaker 1: another military intervention in This is often called a bloodless coup. 280 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: And then two years after that, adding non octars arrest 281 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 1: it and charged with using threats for personal benefit and 282 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: creating an organization with an intent to commit a crime. 283 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,560 Speaker 1: He gets convicted, sentenced to three years in jail. Verdict 284 00:18:11,640 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: is appealed in it was overturned. The same year, he 285 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: is called one of the top fifty of the five 286 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,880 Speaker 1: most influential Muslims in the world by the Royal Islamic 287 00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:28,960 Speaker 1: Strategic Studies Center in Jordan's And then then year after 288 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: that he gets a TV network. Yeah, and I mean 289 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,360 Speaker 1: it is Yeah, so it's it's an it's not just 290 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:41,400 Speaker 1: an internet thing. It's actually also broadcast on Turkish cable, right, 291 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:45,199 Speaker 1: so it's called the A nine satellite channel. And it 292 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 1: really does kind of have the feel of sort of 293 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: a YouTube meets like Wayne's World, kind of cable access 294 00:18:51,400 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: type show with yeah, no reasonably constructed set, but looking 295 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,320 Speaker 1: on a little bit on the cheap side. Um, and 296 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 1: you know, with with actar kind of positioned as the 297 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: as the anchor of the host, surrounded by like iPads 298 00:19:04,440 --> 00:19:07,159 Speaker 1: and laptops and stuff, and you know, mainly acting as 299 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 1: a platform for him to espouse his own personal views. Yeah, 300 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: exactly what you could call is unique brand of televangelism. Uh, 301 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: and we'll get to that. We're going to dive into 302 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: that program in specific and just a bit. But if 303 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,920 Speaker 1: you were familiar with this story, you might be saying, Hey, 304 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 1: didn't I see that guy in the news a few 305 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: years ago? You certainly did, because on July eleven, the 306 00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 1: Turkish police Financial Crimes Unit did a raid. They detained 307 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,359 Speaker 1: oak Tar and over well over a hundred and fifty 308 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: of his associates. Uh. The charges were, among others, forming 309 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: a criminal enterprise, committing financial fraud, and widespread sexual abuse. 310 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 1: So what on earth was going on with add On 311 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: ok Tar. We're gonna pause for word from our sponsor 312 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: and then will tell you here's where it gets crazy. Yeah. So, um, 313 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,439 Speaker 1: if you didn't already kind of get thee get a 314 00:20:14,480 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 1: sense of which way the wind was blowing. Uh, this 315 00:20:17,200 --> 00:20:21,280 Speaker 1: is definitely a cult um. Okay we we allegedly, but 316 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,160 Speaker 1: not no, no, it's it's a cult. Not only yeah, 317 00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: not only the regular regular old run of the milk call. 318 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: This is a sex cult um because he Okay, we'll 319 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,360 Speaker 1: get to it. Uh. He was absolutely like a massive 320 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 1: media figure at this point his television show. He was 321 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: very popular as an author, Like we mentioned, like I mean, 322 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:46,200 Speaker 1: he was really more known by his pen name, Yeah, exactly. Uh. 323 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: And for like I think he were like put out anyway, 324 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,640 Speaker 1: dozens of books on creationism and they sold very very 325 00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: well in Turkish bookshops. Um. He also has become this 326 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 1: kind of like you know, media sensation on TV now, 327 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: so he really is kind of like a like a 328 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 1: double threat, if not a triple threat by the way, 329 00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: if you want, you can check out clips from his 330 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:10,480 Speaker 1: show and his broadcast, and it's all very self aggrandizings, 331 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 1: like documentaries about him, kind of you know, like you know, 332 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, like elevating him to the status 333 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 1: of almost like a demigod you know on Earth. Um. 334 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:26,640 Speaker 1: And it's weird. Unequivocally, it's it's odd, yeah, not only 335 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,400 Speaker 1: because of just the production value and the self aggrandizement 336 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: and stuff, and we'll get into his women, his women, 337 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: but also just like he changes his story a lot. 338 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: It all feels very like trump ist kind of rolling 339 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:43,360 Speaker 1: with it and just kind of shooting off whatever comes 340 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 1: at the top of the dome and then figuring out 341 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,640 Speaker 1: a way to explain it away if if, if ever 342 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 1: called on it, which he's not because nobody calls cult 343 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 1: leaders on it. That's why you're a cult leader, because 344 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 1: you don't want to be called on things. He's just 345 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: freestyling for a lot of it. To be honest with you, 346 00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: And yes, we're not the only one, us outsiders who 347 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,880 Speaker 1: are not ourselves Turkish. We're not the only ones who 348 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:09,200 Speaker 1: found this show weird. His views are pretty contradictory at times, 349 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,840 Speaker 1: especially if you look at everything over the span of 350 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: what he's been saying. It seems to have a lot 351 00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: of inner conflicts. Strictly fundamentalists in some ways, but he 352 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: calls himself a feminist, nearly hedonistic in others. Let's go 353 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,919 Speaker 1: ahead and say it. One of the things that freaked 354 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,119 Speaker 1: people out the most is that while he's doing these diatribes, 355 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 1: his female devotees, which he calls his kittens, are sitting 356 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: around nodding, and they've been encouraged, coerced in some cases 357 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: into looking almost exactly the same, a lot of plastic surgery, 358 00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: a lot of makeup, and the only difference for many 359 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: is the hair color. Some are not blonde, and in 360 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: between most are, most are, Most are nearly identical and blonde. 361 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 1: And in between his uh, his statements or his lectures, 362 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 1: they play pop music because like we said, he loves dancing, 363 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,159 Speaker 1: and then the kittens get up and dance. It's like 364 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: a Binny Hill song or the Heyday and Playboy, and 365 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: I don't know, we maybe have watched different episodes and 366 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: maybe they do it differently or it's evolved. But in 367 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,479 Speaker 1: the one I saw and the highly recommend checking out 368 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: the broadly Vice documentary where like an incredible correspondent goes 369 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:32,320 Speaker 1: in and actually appears on the show, um where she 370 00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,840 Speaker 1: is forced to be um slathered in like weird makeup 371 00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 1: against her will. I mean she you know it, submits 372 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 1: to it for the purposes of the you know, journalistic uh, 373 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 1: you know, curiosity. But it's like the weirdest thing. And 374 00:23:45,160 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: in this episode, in these like little segues, the women 375 00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,920 Speaker 1: are dancing, but they don't they're sitting while they're doing 376 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: it there there in their seats, just kind of pop 377 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 1: into the rhythm and like this journalist who whose name 378 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 1: I will will pull before we we finished, um, it 379 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 1: kind of starts playing along and just sort of clapping awkwardly, 380 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: like looking around. Um, it's the weirdest thing ever. He 381 00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:13,800 Speaker 1: will yeah, ok, tar will also ask one of the 382 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:16,679 Speaker 1: kittens to come up and like stand there while he 383 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 1: does a weird little dance, you know, just kind of 384 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,960 Speaker 1: like I don't know if this will translate, but he's 385 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,680 Speaker 1: just sort of moving his elbows and his hips. It's 386 00:24:25,720 --> 00:24:27,679 Speaker 1: kind of like when puff Daddy's in his all his 387 00:24:27,720 --> 00:24:30,359 Speaker 1: own artist videos, just kind of waving his hands around, 388 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,480 Speaker 1: kind of shimming it from side to side, not particularly 389 00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: adding most conversation. I told you that I can't stop. Yeah, 390 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: I told you that I can't stop. Okay, So you 391 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 1: saw that Broadly piece too, and you you mentioned the 392 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,879 Speaker 1: incredible journalist named Mayor Ahmad, But if you would you 393 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 1: tell us more about her exploration and kind of wear 394 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: red and some of the questioning that she was able 395 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:58,240 Speaker 1: to get in under duress. By the way, yeah, Maharahmad, 396 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:02,160 Speaker 1: if you were listening, we're grateful to you, and you 397 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 1: are in in my opinion, at least, you are a soldier. 398 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:12,280 Speaker 1: Because her story starts when she's trying to interview members 399 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:16,800 Speaker 1: of Oak Tars group about feminism and Islam, and she 400 00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: gets a pen pal who's one of the kittens in 401 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 1: this group and they talk over skype for like a year. 402 00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:25,680 Speaker 1: There's a lot of pre production going into this. She 403 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: travels to istanbul In to make that video we're mentioning 404 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: for for Vice, and her idea is, look, let me 405 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,199 Speaker 1: just let me try to get past what seems like 406 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 1: a facade here. Um. Everybody is being weirdly nice to me, 407 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,320 Speaker 1: like Stepford level nice to me, and the male followers 408 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: who are called the Lions, are constantly checking in and 409 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: trying to make sure, in her view that she doesn't 410 00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: get any alone time with the kittens, including her pen pal, 411 00:25:57,359 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: doesn't get to talk to them at all, and she 412 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:03,439 Speaker 1: gets this very curated experience being on the show. You 413 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: can tell it's super awkward, uh, and she, you know, 414 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 1: she powers through it, I think in a in a 415 00:26:12,200 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: later statement, she said, and I left with just way 416 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: too much makeup slathered on and this huge photoshop book 417 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:28,199 Speaker 1: of fossils, and she can't She's freaked out. And you 418 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,800 Speaker 1: can tell why in the video, because it turns out 419 00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: there's a dark side to this cult. It's not just 420 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 1: a weird kind of um turkish Hugh Hefner meets religious 421 00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:46,119 Speaker 1: movement thing. All of Okar's tremendous influences, cultural power, and 422 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 1: charisma leads to that tipping point when the tide turns 423 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 1: in the law is cracked down on his alleged financial crimes. 424 00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: But that's just the beginning. As we speak right now, 425 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: the guy was originally sentenced to more than one thousand 426 00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:07,359 Speaker 1: years in prison, one thousand, seventy five years, specifically for 427 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: crimes like sexual assault, sexual abuse of miners, fraud, attempted 428 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,280 Speaker 1: political and military espionage, and and no, I think you'll 429 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 1: have fun with this. I pulled the I pulled the 430 00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:24,360 Speaker 1: official quote of the entirety of the charges he got 431 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,919 Speaker 1: slapped with. I think you might have fun reading it. 432 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: But it's a long one, so you leaders share voice acting. Yeah, okay, Okay, 433 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 1: here we go. This is almost like the kind of 434 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,560 Speaker 1: thing you read in like, you know, pharmaceutical ad disclaimer speed, 435 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 1: just to get it all out there. But we we'll 436 00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: slow it down a little more than that so you 437 00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 1: can really have a chance to marinate in some of 438 00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: these accusations. Okay, So we got forming a criminal organization, 439 00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:52,000 Speaker 1: sexual abuse of children, sexual assault, child kidnapping, sexual harassment, blackmailing, 440 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:55,919 Speaker 1: false imprisonment, political and military espionage, fraud by exploiting religious feelings, 441 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: money laundering, violation of privacy, forgery of official documents, opposition 442 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 1: to anti terror, law, coercion, use of violence, slander a 443 00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,399 Speaker 1: leading citizens for mandatory military service. Sorry once, just insulting. 444 00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 1: It's just insulting, insulting, false incrimination, perjury, aggregated fraud, smuggling, 445 00:28:13,560 --> 00:28:16,320 Speaker 1: tax invasion, bribery, torture, I leegal, recording of personal data, 446 00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: violating the Law on the Protection of Family and women, 447 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,879 Speaker 1: and violating a citizen's right to get education, and participating politics. 448 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,560 Speaker 1: Because yeah, oh, and attempting a coup by the way, Uh, 449 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 1: this reminded me. I didn't expect this to show up. 450 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 1: But ok Tar was also found guilty of aiding a 451 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,880 Speaker 1: group led by a Muslim creature named Fula Gulan, who 452 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: we had covered in a previous episode years ago through 453 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: his school system. Yeah, with our pal sam T Garden, 454 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: who actually went to that school that was sort of 455 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:52,000 Speaker 1: the front right to the school in a way, especially 456 00:28:52,040 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: to Turkish critics will say that, and they say Gulan 457 00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 1: was attempting a coup in twenty sixteen, and that oak 458 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:02,880 Speaker 1: Tar was helping. And when the law gets to his 459 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: house they find so much weird stuff. One of the 460 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: things they find is a hidden cash of firearms, body armor, 461 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: and armored vehicles. Oak Tark, by the way, is caught 462 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: as he's trying to run away two of his I 463 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: guess higher level followers, executives park On Javis and Oaktar 464 00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: Babuna are sentenced to two d and eleven and a 465 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: hundred and eighty six years, respectively. And during this trial, 466 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:34,240 Speaker 1: which is a sensation in Turkey for months, right, it's 467 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: like the o j trial or the Epstein trial. People 468 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:40,880 Speaker 1: are paying attention to it. During this trial, the court 469 00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:50,240 Speaker 1: here's profoundly disturbing sex crimes and accounts of abuse in detail. 470 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: And oak Tar is, you know, leaning into this kind 471 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: of constructed personality he has of being like wise but 472 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: also very macho, right, and he sees himself as a 473 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: ladies man. He tells the judge in December, I have 474 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,120 Speaker 1: close to a thousand girlfriends. But it seems that, according 475 00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: to multiple members of his group, not near all of 476 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:22,320 Speaker 1: these girlfriends were consensual. The Guardian had a good recount 477 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 1: of this. Uh. There was one person at his trial, 478 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: coult survivor identified only as c c Uh, and she 479 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: told the court that OCD had not only repeatedly sexually 480 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: abused her, but he had abused other women as well. 481 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 1: And in that raid we mentioned earlier, police found sixty 482 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: nine thousand contraception pills. When asked about them, Oktar said 483 00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:52,000 Speaker 1: he they're used to treat skin disorders and what he 484 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,040 Speaker 1: called menstrual irregularities. But it turns out by multiple witnesses, 485 00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: including c c Uh, many of the women who say 486 00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:04,240 Speaker 1: he had sexually assaulted them said he also forced them 487 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: to take these pills afterwards. Cec, by the way, said 488 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,720 Speaker 1: she herself joined the cult when she was seventeen years 489 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,680 Speaker 1: old and the abuse began shortly after. And UH disclaimer 490 00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: within the disclaimer, this is the part where it gets 491 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:20,479 Speaker 1: super dark. Um. You may have noticed in the first 492 00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: of the early of the charges I rattled off there 493 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:29,320 Speaker 1: was one sexual abuse of children and this has been 494 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:36,719 Speaker 1: this has been corroborated by multiple uh former members of 495 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:40,080 Speaker 1: the group. Of course, you know, At denies all of 496 00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,200 Speaker 1: these things vehemently UH and and says that all of 497 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 1: these former members are just bitter and just trying to 498 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: bring him down or trying to sort of like stem 499 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,840 Speaker 1: his like political ambitions and things like that, that everyone's 500 00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: out to get him. It's a witch hunt, etcetera. Um. 501 00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 1: But here is is what we do know. Sita is Sildar. 502 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: It was another survivor reform. Remember told The Sunday Times 503 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,840 Speaker 1: that act Are also sexually abused her when she was sixteen. 504 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: He also forced her to undergo a nose job, she claimed, 505 00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:18,920 Speaker 1: without any anesthesia when she was twenty. The victim said 506 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,960 Speaker 1: she is still traumatized by the brutal surgery, stating, I 507 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,640 Speaker 1: can still remember the hammer. I was counting how many 508 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 1: times they were hitting the hammer and the chisel to 509 00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: my nose. Holy cow. Um. And there was a piece 510 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: that I watched on a YouTube channel called The Newsmakers. 511 00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that's a television based thing that 512 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,680 Speaker 1: has a YouTube presidence or if it's just a YouTube thing, 513 00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:43,520 Speaker 1: but it was. It felt very much like a BBC 514 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:47,240 Speaker 1: style report. Uh and it's it's it had had. This 515 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,960 Speaker 1: particular episode had a guest by the name of psilon 516 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,480 Speaker 1: Osgool who was a former follower of Edna and Altar 517 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:59,880 Speaker 1: and Uh. The host um asked her point blank about 518 00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: the allegation of of child rape. Really that's how he 519 00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: put it. He put it as child rape, no hedging 520 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 1: around that, and she said, yes, it did happen while 521 00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:13,120 Speaker 1: she was there. She didn't see it with her own eyes, 522 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 1: but that she believes that he was sexually assaulting women, 523 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 1: not when girls as young as seven years old. And 524 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,680 Speaker 1: we should also acknowledge that this woman that I'm referring 525 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,200 Speaker 1: to was also the in that Vice documentary that that 526 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: we've been talking about, and she was one of the 527 00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: more outspoken um members of of the of the group 528 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 1: that spoke. And here's the thing. She's very intelligent, like 529 00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,800 Speaker 1: she she has things to say that that are very thoughtful. 530 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 1: She she makes all these points in the Vice thing 531 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 1: about how um Darwin hated women, which there is evidence of. 532 00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: I mean, Darwin he ate every animal that he discovered. 533 00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,520 Speaker 1: He's a weird cat. And yeah, it was the time 534 00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 1: where most men were not particularly kind to women. Uh, 535 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,959 Speaker 1: And so I would imagine someone of dar Winds, you know, 536 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,560 Speaker 1: rarefied intellect, you know, probably was a bit of a 537 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,239 Speaker 1: pill to women. Um. But she points out that, you know, 538 00:34:08,280 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: there's nowhere else in the world other than this group, 539 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,600 Speaker 1: this cult, where women the best you could hope for 540 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:16,359 Speaker 1: anywhere else in the world, she says, is for women 541 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,280 Speaker 1: to be treated as equals. But here, she says, women 542 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: when they walk into the room, they're treated like rare. 543 00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:29,560 Speaker 1: You know, creatures of magic and mysticism. Um, that's the technique, 544 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:33,400 Speaker 1: one gazillion percent. We've talked about this in the episode 545 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,040 Speaker 1: where we interviewed the folks from was I an occult 546 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: Um And it's just it's just a very common technique. 547 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:44,040 Speaker 1: And now, um, this newsmaker's episode was from July. Uh. Still, 548 00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,399 Speaker 1: you know, a handful of years ago. She's out and 549 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,640 Speaker 1: and speaking openly about you know, the abuse that she 550 00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:56,080 Speaker 1: saw and suffered personally. Yeah, and she's doing this importantly, 551 00:34:56,680 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 1: she's doing this before the trial. She she she gets out early. 552 00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,040 Speaker 1: So we're starting to see how deep this goes. Uh 553 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 1: And we're gonna pause for word from our sponsor and 554 00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 1: will continue to dive deeper. So, in addition to all 555 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: these horrific things, the court also learns about the inner 556 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 1: working of the cult and oak tars aims are very 557 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:35,320 Speaker 1: clear and he is engaging in a highly targeted um 558 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: identification and turning system. We know this because several of 559 00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:44,799 Speaker 1: his former followers spoke to the court in return for 560 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: full immunity from prosecution. There was one guy who is 561 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 1: identified publicly as Sahein, who says he became oak Tar's 562 00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: follower as a teenager as an impressionable, young well to 563 00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 1: do Turkish kid. He learned about the movement from some friends, 564 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,040 Speaker 1: and of course he's a he's a teenage boy, so 565 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,959 Speaker 1: he's like super into you know. The mystique of this 566 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,920 Speaker 1: most interesting man in Turkey is always surrounded by women 567 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 1: who look like they come out of the cover of 568 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,040 Speaker 1: a fashion magazine. And he has cool stuff to say, 569 00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 1: you know, and he's he's got a different kind of Islam, 570 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: a different kind of take that might fit you better. 571 00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:29,479 Speaker 1: At least that's what Sahin thinks. And oak Tar takes 572 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:33,439 Speaker 1: him in, starts dressing him in designer clothes, starts having 573 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,319 Speaker 1: him work out, gets him stylish, but not just to 574 00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: help this kid's self esteem. Actually, that's probably one of 575 00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:44,240 Speaker 1: the last concerns. So he learns that his good looks 576 00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:48,920 Speaker 1: uh and his new persona are purpose built as bait 577 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:55,280 Speaker 1: to lure ok Tar's next goal, female followers. So he 578 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,720 Speaker 1: and the other male followers that o Tar calls his lions, 579 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,399 Speaker 1: they just hang out in malls or cafes, and there's 580 00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 1: so many cafes around Turkey, uh, and they would just 581 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 1: strike up conversations pick up artist style with women who 582 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,720 Speaker 1: happened by and then he would give them his number 583 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: and he would say, Hey, I'm a scout from modeling agency, 584 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:19,919 Speaker 1: or I am hiring salespeople, and I like the cut 585 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: of your jib, I like your vibe and shout out to. 586 00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: So many of our own listeners are fellow conspiracy realist 587 00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:30,680 Speaker 1: today who have come close to seeing these approaches. I'm sure, 588 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:35,359 Speaker 1: uh someone listening has been approached by a person who says, hey, 589 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,799 Speaker 1: I work for modeling agency. Uh. Just spoiler alert. I 590 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:43,160 Speaker 1: don't think you should believe them anyway. They especially if 591 00:37:43,160 --> 00:37:46,799 Speaker 1: they want you to pay them up. That's always that's 592 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:50,520 Speaker 1: always the biggest red flag. If an agent is like, hey, 593 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,040 Speaker 1: I'll represent you and then you got talent, I would 594 00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:54,919 Speaker 1: it take his kid? No, just go ahead and pay 595 00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,120 Speaker 1: me and then we'll get your head shots and all that. 596 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 1: So that's not how it works, true agents or truths out. 597 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:04,200 Speaker 1: They get paid when you get paid right exactly. And 598 00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:08,680 Speaker 1: they were so systematic about this that they had a 599 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 1: name for their scheme. It was called the turnstile system. 600 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:16,399 Speaker 1: And it it worked, It worked very very well. Uh 601 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,640 Speaker 1: Saheen says that he alone in his time, brought over 602 00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,560 Speaker 1: two d women into the cult, and he said oak 603 00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,879 Speaker 1: Tar brainwashed him, got into his head and had him 604 00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:29,160 Speaker 1: thinking that what he was doing was right. He was 605 00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:34,080 Speaker 1: spreading the good word. Another uh and we mentioned Sale 606 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,560 Speaker 1: on Old School. Let's talk a little bit more about her. 607 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:39,240 Speaker 1: So she joined the cult when she was twenty four, 608 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:42,840 Speaker 1: it was two thousand and six, and until she left, 609 00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:46,320 Speaker 1: she was one of the most prominent members. In these videos, 610 00:38:46,360 --> 00:38:48,239 Speaker 1: you'll see that some of the kittens kind of sit 611 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:52,520 Speaker 1: and you know, they respond by giggling or laughing, and 612 00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:57,120 Speaker 1: they danced in their seats, and then others will speak themselves, right, 613 00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,880 Speaker 1: they'll make their opinions known, or they'll say maybe a 614 00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:04,560 Speaker 1: rehearsed uh speech of some sort. Sealan was doing a 615 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,359 Speaker 1: lot of this, but after she got out, she said 616 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:11,719 Speaker 1: life in the group was a prison and UH that 617 00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:14,360 Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't take the threat of Oktar 618 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,120 Speaker 1: seriously because they thought he was an eccentric, maybe dirty 619 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 1: old man who just liked having a bunch of scantily 620 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 1: dressed women around him. But she said the abuse his 621 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: victims went through was serious and life changing. And these allegations, 622 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,800 Speaker 1: especially those of abusing children, are what led to media 623 00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: outlets like the Greek City Times called him the Turkish 624 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:41,960 Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein. And the case is still like there's still 625 00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,239 Speaker 1: developments happening in the case as of this year. It 626 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,719 Speaker 1: just just this April. As we record in two, four 627 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:54,280 Speaker 1: of his lawyers got detained on March fifto his verdict 628 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:58,680 Speaker 1: was actually overturned by the Turkish Court of Appeal due 629 00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:02,919 Speaker 1: to quote incomplete prosecution and erroneous assessment, and the court 630 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,160 Speaker 1: asked for a retrial of all the defendants. Uh. They 631 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: decided to release sixty eight defendants, but they kept sixteen, 632 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:14,719 Speaker 1: including oak Tar. He is incarcerated at the time of 633 00:40:14,719 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: this recording. And you know what, I hate to admit 634 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: because this is dark, deeply disturbing stuff, but uh, they 635 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: to admit. I chuckled when oak Tar was asked about 636 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,920 Speaker 1: his arrest. As the police are taking him from his 637 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,240 Speaker 1: house uh to a hospital for medical check, someone says, 638 00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: you know, what do you think this is all about? 639 00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: And he says, quote, this is a conspiracy by the 640 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 1: British deep state. Yeah, that's a That's the thing that's 641 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,799 Speaker 1: been thrown around is that he believes British intelligence is 642 00:40:44,840 --> 00:40:47,920 Speaker 1: setting him up in some way. Been there's a reason 643 00:40:47,960 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: for that though right, I'm not. It's it's not instantly 644 00:40:51,719 --> 00:40:54,880 Speaker 1: apparent to me, but like there is some connection. He 645 00:40:54,960 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 1: believes he's being targeted for what exactly. He believes he's 646 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:10,520 Speaker 1: being targeted by the British state to weaken the what 647 00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 1: I guess he sees as the destiny of Turkey or 648 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire, like he and his colleagues are are 649 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:23,240 Speaker 1: fighting for a better Turkey. Well, he's essentially implying that 650 00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:26,719 Speaker 1: that hidden group that runs the world, right, whether they 651 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 1: are a particular religion, or whether they're Freemasons, or whether 652 00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 1: they're British aristocracy, he's alleging that they capital t have 653 00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:39,000 Speaker 1: some stuff they don't want you to know, and they're 654 00:41:39,040 --> 00:41:43,640 Speaker 1: stopping oak Tar from getting the word out. But with 655 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:47,120 Speaker 1: this guy, you know how his statement may change as 656 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 1: the wind blows, you know what I mean. Have we 657 00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:53,160 Speaker 1: talked about the weirdness going on in Turkey right now 658 00:41:53,920 --> 00:42:01,000 Speaker 1: with their foreign minister Mevlut Cavu. He's he's changed the 659 00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 1: name of the country two two Turkey with an ome 660 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: lad over it t u r k I y e uh. 661 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,520 Speaker 1: He's rebranding the country. Wait, I I know that I 662 00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,800 Speaker 1: remember this, when no, he didn't like the Western Association 663 00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: of Turkey, the country with Turkey the food. Yeah, right, 664 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:25,000 Speaker 1: is that a lunch of means? Yeah, I think that's right. Um. 665 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:27,440 Speaker 1: But now it's like you know, he now he's he's 666 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,000 Speaker 1: you know, insisting that like everyone else fell a suit, 667 00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,719 Speaker 1: like at their own expense, like Turkish airlines and things 668 00:42:32,719 --> 00:42:35,480 Speaker 1: like that. Right. So it's uh so, it's it's it's 669 00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:36,959 Speaker 1: a lot. There's a lot of going on over there 670 00:42:37,440 --> 00:42:39,279 Speaker 1: unrelated to this particular story. But I did think that 671 00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:43,400 Speaker 1: was an interesting uh flex from a foreign leader. Um. 672 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: And this really is an ongoing story bed And again 673 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,759 Speaker 1: I can't recommend that broadly piece and nothing's really sure. 674 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,200 Speaker 1: It's only like fifteen minutes. This is really a great 675 00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: piece of journalism, um, and you get you're right there 676 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,719 Speaker 1: with her, and you really get a sense of what 677 00:42:56,760 --> 00:43:00,280 Speaker 1: it feels like. And you know, obviously innocent until proven 678 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:03,120 Speaker 1: guilty and all of that. But man, there's a lot 679 00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,120 Speaker 1: of smoke around this guy. Yeah. I'm pretty sure there's 680 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:12,440 Speaker 1: some sex abuse fire uh in there as well. Absolutely, 681 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,960 Speaker 1: I mean he was convicted of it originally. Also he 682 00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 1: has this These are just a few of his convictions, 683 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,320 Speaker 1: just the big ones. He's been arrested for other stuff 684 00:43:21,320 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 1: as well, including cocaine possession. We're just saying he's been 685 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,640 Speaker 1: on the wrong side of the law pretty often, and 686 00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:30,600 Speaker 1: he does seem to have ties to people who want 687 00:43:30,640 --> 00:43:35,080 Speaker 1: to orchestrate a coup in the Republic of Turkey at 688 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:41,680 Speaker 1: this point. Whenever we do an episode touching on cultic organizations, uh, well, 689 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,160 Speaker 1: it's important for us to end by saying that colts 690 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:49,560 Speaker 1: can be a real damaging thing. Check out our earlier episodes, 691 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,600 Speaker 1: check out our YouTube videos on how cults are created. 692 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,120 Speaker 1: And please don't hesitate to write to us if you 693 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,320 Speaker 1: have a loved one that you think has been taken 694 00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:01,040 Speaker 1: in by a cult uh and are looking for some 695 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,360 Speaker 1: resources on how to approach them about freeing their minds. 696 00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,160 Speaker 1: We've got your back. We try to be easy to 697 00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:15,160 Speaker 1: find online. The Facebook's, the instagrams, twitters most of the things. Yeah, 698 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:18,759 Speaker 1: but in those yeah, exactly on those three that you 699 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,960 Speaker 1: mentioned just now, well, no, actually, let's do this one 700 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:23,560 Speaker 1: more time. On on Facebook, on Twitter, and YouTube. You 701 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,160 Speaker 1: can find us at Conspiracy Stuff on Instagram. It's a 702 00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:30,040 Speaker 1: little difference Conspiracy Stuff show, but lots of fun changes 703 00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,719 Speaker 1: coming to all of those platforms, specifically YouTube and Instagram, 704 00:44:33,840 --> 00:44:35,720 Speaker 1: so give those a look and be on the lookout 705 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:39,240 Speaker 1: in the very near future for some exciting updates um 706 00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:41,960 Speaker 1: to that content as well. Yeah, and you know, not 707 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:46,120 Speaker 1: everybody SIPs the social meds. If you yourself, don't partake. 708 00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,080 Speaker 1: But you still have a message you want to get 709 00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,720 Speaker 1: to us, Well, then guess what. We have a phone number. Uh. 710 00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,600 Speaker 1: We love saying it and we love hearing from you 711 00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:56,839 Speaker 1: on it. That's right, it's one A three three st 712 00:44:57,080 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: d w y t K. Leave a message of the 713 00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:04,800 Speaker 1: sound of Ben's dulcet tones, inviting you into the world 714 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,920 Speaker 1: of telephonic mystery and imagination. You've got three minutes to 715 00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 1: leave your missive, or your tail or your question, whatever 716 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:13,799 Speaker 1: it might be, and you can need a little more 717 00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: time than that by all means, tell us, you know, 718 00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:18,919 Speaker 1: write a novel, but maybe do so via our good 719 00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:42,280 Speaker 1: old fashion email. We are conspiracy at iHeart radio dot com. 720 00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:44,480 Speaker 1: Stuff they don't want you to know is a production 721 00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,640 Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, 722 00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:50,799 Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you 723 00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,000 Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.