WEBVTT - Crowdfunding Satellites 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:07.200 Brought to you by Toyota. Let's go places. Welcome to 0:00:07.400 --> 0:00:14.560 Forward Thinking Tail everyone, and welcome to Forward Thinking, the 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.480 podcast that looks at the future and says a mark again, 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.640 a buck or a pound. I'm Jonathan Strickland, I'm Lauren, 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:24.599 and I'm Joe McCormick. So, guys, uh, you know you 0:00:24.640 --> 0:00:28.760 guys like science, right, yeah, big on the science. I 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:34.520 prefer mad science, right well, I mean Plaine science is okay, right, yeah. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.479 When when you can't get mad science, plane science will 0:00:37.479 --> 0:00:39.600 do in a pinch. And here's the thing about science, 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:43.159 you see, it's a it's something that requires an investment. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:46.040 It's not we haven't reached a point in the world 0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:51.280 where we can just study things for free and mankind 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:54.400 can benefit from our studies. It turns out that to 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:57.880 to conduct really good science, you often need a lot 0:00:58.200 --> 0:01:02.040 of the cold, hard cat. Yeah. Things cost money, especially 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.000 mad signs. I would say, yeah, no, that's those various 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:09.080 Tesla coils and uh and Jacob's ladders. They don't pay 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:14.559 for themselves. Yeah. Well, I mean you can sometimes get 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:18.280 test subjects at a cheaper hourly rate if you promise 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:21.679 them nightmarish hallucinations. This is true if you read any 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.000 of the signs on Marta trains for college students who 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:28.880 are desperate for money. Uh yeah, so, but but human 0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:33.360 experimentation out of the way, you still have materials costs 0:01:33.400 --> 0:01:36.360 and things like that. You uh, if you've ever done 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:39.280 a science fair as a kid, you know you had 0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:43.039 to buy that three paneled cardboard backdrop and those things 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:48.640 ain't cheap. Soda glue and yeah, yeah no, and beyond that, 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:51.160 I mean, we're making light of it, but obviously there 0:01:51.200 --> 0:01:54.600 are lots of different costs involved, everything from salaries or 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:56.840 or at least some sort of compensation for the people 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.320 doing the work because you know, they have to pay 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.559 bills and things, to paying for the labs, for paying 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.880 for all the materials, uh, and paying people to make 0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.840 sure and quality check all the research to be certain 0:02:11.919 --> 0:02:15.840 that everything was done properly so that whatever findings come 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:19.840 out as a result are logically based upon the experiment itself. 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.640 I mean, the whole process is expensive. So where does 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:27.480 that money come from? Traditionally from from three different kind 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:31.160 of branches. Yeah, yeah, you've got you've got governments. That's 0:02:31.200 --> 0:02:33.480 a big one. Well, actually, i'd back up before we 0:02:33.560 --> 0:02:38.359 hit governments. Traditionally you may have also have independent wealth. 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:42.679 So a lot of scientists throughout history, certainly not all, 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:45.679 but a lot of people who made scientific discoveries were 0:02:45.720 --> 0:02:50.080 people who had leisure who are or they had a 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:53.519 patron who was who had that kind of disposable income. 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.040 In fact, patronage was a big way of doing science 0:02:56.240 --> 0:03:00.480 before we got into the giant academy and things of 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.600 that nature. Sure, these days that would probably fall under 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:06.720 kind of the private grant kind of area, which was 0:03:06.800 --> 0:03:08.520 going to be our second topic. But we can just 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:11.079 mention now that there are lots of private foundations out 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:15.880 there that that have it within their scope to specifically 0:03:15.919 --> 0:03:18.920 fund research that's right and right. So it you know, 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:20.600 a few hundred years ago, it might have been like 0:03:20.639 --> 0:03:23.920 a duke or like the church or something like that. 0:03:24.280 --> 0:03:29.000 Now it's maybe more like some organization, a nonprofit organization. 0:03:29.160 --> 0:03:33.320 And in these cases, the the approach of getting funding 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:37.320 from a private grant a private organization is not that 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.800 different from applying for a government grant for science. How 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:48.560 government work? Well, how does government funded science work? Question? Yeah, 0:03:49.120 --> 0:03:52.600 So essentially you have pools of money that have been 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:55.600 allotted by the United States. This is within the United States. 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.080 Obviously other countries are different. But the United States you 0:03:58.080 --> 0:04:01.120 have pools of money that are allotted for specific purposes, 0:04:01.240 --> 0:04:06.000 for instance, scientific research, and that's overseen by different departments 0:04:06.000 --> 0:04:09.120 like the National Science Foundation or the National Institutes of Health, etcetera, 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:12.160 Department of Energy, etcetera. Yeah, yeah, even Department of Defense 0:04:12.200 --> 0:04:15.200 has a big one obviously, DARPA. They that whole area 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.719 has got its own budget for research. Now, all of 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:22.599 these are meant for specific types of applications. Sometimes they're 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:26.680 pretty broad, general categories like the National Science Foundations, pretty broad, 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:29.599 National Institute of Health obviously that's more health related. So 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:32.760 you have these pools of money that then are overseen 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:36.240 by committees, and so in order to get at that money, 0:04:36.600 --> 0:04:39.120 you have to submit a grand application and hope that 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:42.240 yours is chosen over all the other applications coming in 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:45.480 knowing that that pool of money is pretty limited, and 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:49.159 sometimes we see those budgets cut year over year. It 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:53.560 all depends upon what politicians feel is important from one 0:04:53.640 --> 0:04:56.000 year to the next. My guess is that the general 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.520 public believes that that money is more abundant than it 0:04:59.600 --> 0:05:02.919 actually is. It is not, and it is not easy 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:05.200 to get to but we'll cover that later on in 0:05:05.200 --> 0:05:08.840 the podcast. Okay, But so both like a private patron 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.600 or organization and the government, they they're potentially likely to 0:05:12.800 --> 0:05:16.960 fund your exploratory science just to discover things about the world. 0:05:16.960 --> 0:05:19.880 But i'd imagine there are also groups that are mainly 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:23.039 interested in how science is going to make you some money. Yeah, 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:26.280 those would be corporations. Yeah, I wrote down private companies, 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:29.080 but corporations is more accurate because it doesn't have to 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:30.800 be a private company. It could just be it could 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:35.159 be a publicly traded corporation that funds. But yes, a 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:40.080 corporation is usually funding the private sector. Yeah, funding science 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.719 for a specific they're hoping for specific outcomes, something that 0:05:44.760 --> 0:05:48.680 can be monetized down the road. Uh. And obviously that 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:52.400 comes with its own set of pros and cons, which 0:05:52.400 --> 0:05:54.599 we'll get into a little bit later. And you can 0:05:54.839 --> 0:05:58.159 devil's advocate that if you can make that phrase into 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.839 a verb, that that that that a given company might 0:06:02.000 --> 0:06:05.520 in fact be interested in promoting research for the good 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:08.559 of mankind as well. But it's also it's it's always 0:06:08.560 --> 0:06:11.719 going to be sticky territory. Thank you for advocating devilishly, Lauren. 0:06:12.720 --> 0:06:15.600 But but SpaceX would be a good example of that, right, 0:06:15.640 --> 0:06:20.160 SpaceX private company, but a lot of at least the 0:06:20.720 --> 0:06:24.000 pr coming out of SpaceX is along those lines, and 0:06:24.200 --> 0:06:27.160 I'm I'm willing to believe that there is a an 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:30.799 actual sincere spot in the heart of that company. Doesn't 0:06:30.800 --> 0:06:33.640 necessarily mean everything they do is altruistic. I don't mean 0:06:33.680 --> 0:06:36.520 to go that far, but to suggest that they are 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.719 very much interested in the pursuit of science beyond just hey, 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:43.440 here's how we can make some more cash. Now, an 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:48.719 emerging way of paying for science is crowdfunding, which, of 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:52.560 course most people think of things like Kickstarter and indiegog. 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:54.719 Those are the two big ones, right, and more for 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.359 things like like you've you've got a pebble, Jonathan, I 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.719 like like goofy gadgets, I mean or useful gadgets, pebbles, 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:05.760 not goofy gorgeous. Okay, explain what a pebble is. Well, 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:08.479 it's a little rock, or it's also a smart watch. 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:13.320 It was a popular crowd crowdfunded smart extremely now now, 0:07:13.360 --> 0:07:16.600 granted I I ordered mine after the crowdfunding I was 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:18.720 not one of the cool kids who backed it back 0:07:18.720 --> 0:07:21.040 in the kickstarter days. Even though it is a Kickstarter edition. 0:07:21.520 --> 0:07:24.720 But but many Kickstarter projects are for you know, artists 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.360 or musicians or or small technology companies who are trying 0:07:28.360 --> 0:07:31.880 to put a product to market, not not necessarily for research. 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:34.560 So so how does this research then come into the equation. 0:07:34.640 --> 0:07:37.640 It's interesting because it's one of those it's one of 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:41.080 those applications of the Kickstarter model that at least at 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:45.360 first glance, does not seem to fit the parameters of 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.040 what Kickstarter was all about. But Kickstar has been pretty 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.320 flexible with those. I mean, there are examples of projects 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:56.960 that have been approved on Kickstarter that again don't necessarily 0:07:56.960 --> 0:07:59.400 fit the terms of service that you are supposed to 0:07:59.480 --> 0:08:01.960 agree to, and you submit a project and knowing that 0:08:01.960 --> 0:08:04.720 that project could be denied. I mean, not everything that 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:08.240 gets submitted to kickstarters approved, but there have been several 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:12.800 cases of science based projects that were submitted to Kickstarter 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.960 and were approved and either funded or didn't fund um 0:08:17.080 --> 0:08:19.160 And Kickstar is not the only one. There's actually one 0:08:19.200 --> 0:08:23.559 called Experiment, which is just for scientific research and various 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:27.200 scientific projects. So there are some that are specific for that. 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:30.760 But Kickstarter, I think is the most well known of crowdfunding, 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:34.560 with maybe Indie Go Go taking second place. So um 0:08:34.640 --> 0:08:36.559 at any rate, there are a lot of different examples. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:39.960 The one I wanted to talk about specifically that made 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:44.040 the news not too long ago was kick SAT. So 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:48.160 I guess the kick is for Kickstarter and SAT for satellite, 0:08:48.760 --> 0:08:53.880 And the actual Kickstarter was launched back in two thousand eleven. 0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.840 So you muld say, well, why the heck is that 0:08:55.960 --> 0:08:59.400 news now? Well, it's news now because it went from 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:05.120 the Kickstarter project phase all the way through funding to reality. 0:09:05.360 --> 0:09:08.720 It actually became a thing that then got launched into space. 0:09:08.760 --> 0:09:11.880 But what the heck was it? So this was a 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:17.840 project to launch very very tiny satellites tiny spacecraft into 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:20.800 low Earth orbit. And when I'm talking tiny, I'm talking 0:09:20.800 --> 0:09:23.600 about like a little bitty square that's a circuit board 0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:25.520 that only has a few elements on it. I'll talk 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.520 about that in a second. The project co creator named 0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.760 Zack Manchester. He was a graduate from the Aerospace engineering 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.720 department at Cornell University. The other co creator was Michael Johnson, 0:09:37.080 --> 0:09:40.400 and together they developed this tiny spacecraft. They called it Sprite. 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:45.480 So each individual spacecraft is a sprite and they could 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:47.360 be built and launched in low Earth orbit for just 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:51.680 a few hundred dollars each. So the idea was that 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.000 by creating a whole bunch of small ones and then 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:57.880 making a delivery system where you could package hundreds of 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.720 small ones together, you could launch the equivalent of a 0:10:01.800 --> 0:10:04.960 hundred or a thousand satellites for the same price that 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.000 you would pay for a relatively small piece of equipment 0:10:08.120 --> 0:10:11.240 that's just one piece to go into space. So kind 0:10:11.240 --> 0:10:15.480 of quantity over quality in a way, because these particular 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:20.840 spacecraft are not terribly sophisticated. Um, do you guys, you 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:26.719 guys have heard about the the Soviet satellite sput Nick right, 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:31.240 the first man made satellite launched into orbit. It essentially 0:10:31.440 --> 0:10:34.600 just produced a ping that could be picked up by 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:39.120 by radio antenna and terrified the Americans. Oh, it absolutely did, 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:42.360 because not because it made a ping noise, but because 0:10:42.360 --> 0:10:45.240 it was a very sinister ping. Mostly admit that the 0:10:45.280 --> 0:10:48.240 Soviet Union had a had missile technology that could reach 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.840 all the way across the United States. There's also this 0:10:51.880 --> 0:10:54.000 whole issue with Cuba going on at the time. But anyway, 0:10:54.040 --> 0:10:59.200 so my our former co worker Chris Palette used to 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:03.200 call it the the sphere. What beat is essentially what 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:05.800 spot Nick was and that's you know again, it didn't 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.320 do much other than send out this little ping message 0:11:08.360 --> 0:11:11.240 to just say I'm here, Yeah, I'm here. It's proof 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.160 that this is a man made object in orbit. Well, 0:11:14.480 --> 0:11:18.960 the the kicks at Sprite spacecraft are pretty similar in 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.920 the sense that that's pretty much all they can do. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.559 They only have a couple of antenna, a micro controller, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.120 a radio, and some solar cells that allow it to 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.920 gather power from sunlight. And all it really does is 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:34.160 transmit its own name, which you can you know, if 0:11:34.200 --> 0:11:36.920 you were to back this project, you could actually name 0:11:37.120 --> 0:11:40.280 your sprite, so it would send out that message over 0:11:40.320 --> 0:11:42.560 and over and plus a few bits of data. So 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:45.360 not that different from spot Nick. Right, you know, there 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:47.920 wasn't It wasn't a practical application. It's more of a 0:11:47.920 --> 0:11:51.360 proof of concept, and the idea being that further more 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:55.320 sophisticated spacecraft could be developed in the future, assuming that 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.240 this one proved to be successful. Oh sure. And also, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:01.560 I mean these these are very very small, which is 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.800 impressive in terms of just circuit board technology and and 0:12:04.880 --> 0:12:07.120 the way that things have advanced since for example, spot 0:12:07.240 --> 0:12:09.920 Nick back and right, yeah, yeah, where you don't have 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:12.960 a giant silver ball going around the Earth. Yeah, I know, 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:17.840 it's pretty exciting. Um. And then the kick Sat itself 0:12:18.000 --> 0:12:21.080 was the delivery system. So it looked like a like 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:22.520 a kind of like a bread box. This is a 0:12:22.520 --> 0:12:26.400 big rectangular thing that could hold hundreds or thousands of 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:30.880 these sprites. And then at the appointed time, the the 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:35.880 various doors on this would open up and launched. Yeah, yes, 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.480 you get a cloud of sprite, actually cloud of sprites, 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:43.560 but close enough. And uh So, the whole idea was 0:12:43.640 --> 0:12:46.640 to be able to launch these then make sure you 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:50.360 could actually locate them and track them and see that 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:53.920 the project was in fact a viable one. That's that 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:55.920 would mean that they could build on it in the future. 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.720 The goal was just thirty dollars, and I say just 0:12:58.840 --> 0:13:03.160 because when we talk about space projects, thirty dollars is 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:07.040 really not that much at all. Um. It was a 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:09.920 very successful project ended up getting more than twice what 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.320 they were asking for. They got seventy four six bucks. 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:15.480 I don't know who threw in these six dollars, but 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:18.840 that was pretty cool of them. Uh And in total, 0:13:19.640 --> 0:13:23.960 in May two thou fourteen, the kicks Sat satellite, the 0:13:24.000 --> 0:13:28.480 first one ever, carried a hundred and four sprites courtesy 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.920 of a space X launch. Already mentioned them once in 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.760 this podcast, but that's the company that actually launched the 0:13:34.880 --> 0:13:37.199 rocket that carried the kicks at. It was a c 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:40.040 R S three rocket and it was actually on the 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.199 way to the I S S, the International Space Station, 0:13:42.280 --> 0:13:45.560 so it was up in. Yeah, they hit stor ride, 0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.120 they did their little uh thumb out the on the 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:52.280 side of the highway, sad Hulk music playing in the background, 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:54.760 and this rocket picked him up. Elon Musk was like, yeah, sure, 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:57.760 come along. Yeah, He's like, dude, we're totally going that way, 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:00.959 come on, hop in. So the only thing is that 0:14:01.120 --> 0:14:03.080 there's a couple of people who have said that maybe 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:06.080 this project is not the best thing in the world, 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.360 not not for this particular implementation, but because of implications 0:14:10.400 --> 0:14:13.960 down the road, being that uh yeah, like like space debris, 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:18.480 Like you're you're purposefully launching a couple of hundred useless 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:21.200 bits of technology into an already crowded air field. Yeah, 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:24.080 that would be the space that would definitely be the criticism, right. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:27.640 I mean, now we're not saying that the spacecraft are useless, 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:29.880 we're just saying that's kind of what the critics would say, 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.360 and uh, and you know, the response is that the 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:37.440 spacecraft are designed to deteriorate, their orbits deteriorate rapidly, so 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:39.840 within a week or two they would be burning up 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.920 on reentry and not be an issue in space. They're 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:46.640 not going high enough in orbit for them to stabilize 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:48.960 or to or to Yeah, that would take quite a 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.880 bit of ways, or to just become an issue like 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.280 getting in the way of other communication satellites or anything 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.560 like that. However, so while this particular implementation is not 0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:01.280 a problem in that sense, the worry is that by 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.040 proving that this is a viable option, we might see 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:08.360 lots more stuff get launched into space over time, and 0:15:08.440 --> 0:15:12.840 that an aggregate could become an issue at some point. Now, granted, 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:16.480 that's saying like we shouldn't do this thing because this 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:18.760 other thing may or may not happen, and that's that's 0:15:18.800 --> 0:15:21.600 a tough argument to make. It's very discouraging and sort 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.520 of a pessimistic view of what could happen, but it's 0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:27.320 still something to think about. It's something to consider when 0:15:27.320 --> 0:15:30.440 moving forward. Is let's at least acknowledge that that's a 0:15:30.480 --> 0:15:34.040 possibility before we hit the launch button, because then we 0:15:34.120 --> 0:15:38.080 can still be responsible while continuing research. We don't want 0:15:38.080 --> 0:15:40.200 to we don't want to discourage people from doing science. 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:41.760 We just want to do a response. But we can 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:45.880 form a plan this way and right exactly. So that's 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:50.160 not the only Kickstarter science project that's out there. There's 0:15:50.160 --> 0:15:52.640 actually a few. Well, in fact, there have been other 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:58.400 satellite projects from Kickstarter. The remember the Planetary Resources ar 0:15:58.480 --> 0:16:01.640 kid project, right y, Yeah, where they wanted to launch 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.160 small satellites and and through Kickstarter they gave people the 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.240 chance to help aim the satellites at certain funding levels 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.880 or to have their picture displayed on a on a 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:14.080 picture taken by the satellite up over the curve of 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:17.040 the Earth. Right Yeah. That was a really cool way 0:16:17.080 --> 0:16:21.680 of trying to get public support behind a project. Another 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:25.320 one that was pushed by one of the co founders 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:27.640 of kicks At, Michael Johnson, you know I mentioned him, 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.880 was called Pocket Spacecraft. Now, that was a follow up 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.680 project to kicks At, which had at its root of 0:16:34.800 --> 0:16:38.520 an even smaller spacecraft than than the little sprites, so 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:43.120 tinier form factor. It was supposed to be more um sophisticated. 0:16:43.120 --> 0:16:46.080 It was called Scout, but this one was going to 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:48.600 travel to the Moon, and they held a Kickstarter, but 0:16:48.720 --> 0:16:52.560 that one did not fund. However, the project gained the 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.800 interest of private investors, who then poured about five thousand 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.840 dollars into Were these private investors wearing long robes with 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:05.719 funny hats and carrying umbrellas, not that I know of. Sorry, 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:07.920 I'm making a little journey to the moon. Yeah, I 0:17:08.520 --> 0:17:12.120 get the joke. But as far as I know, they, 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:14.720 as far as I know, they were not um dressed 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:17.560 in such a manner. But it's possible I was not there. 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:21.760 Kickstarter doesn't really necessarily make you, you know, it doesn't 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.199 disclose the fashion of the participants all the time. And 0:17:25.240 --> 0:17:27.639 I wasn't there for the private investment, so it could 0:17:27.640 --> 0:17:30.600 be you know what, let's just say yes, yes, they 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:34.199 were in fact doing that. Another science project that appeared 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.040 like Kickstarter with Songbird, which, uh, while it was a 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.720 songbird migratory pattern Kickstarter, it was really kind of a 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:44.560 cool thing, this idea of putting tiny little geo locators 0:17:44.600 --> 0:17:49.000 on the California hermit thrush as a two thousand dollar goal, 0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.320 and it funded. And this was the whole idea was 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.880 just to find out where these birds go when they 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.480 travel in the winter because they would always return to 0:17:56.520 --> 0:17:59.600 the same spot, but no one was entirely certain exactly 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.679 where they would end up. And so by putting these 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:04.080 little gl locators on the birds, they're going to learn 0:18:04.119 --> 0:18:07.879 more about the migratory patterns of this particular species, unless, 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.480 of course, it weighs them down, in which case they'll 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.320 stop someplace closer along the way and then we'll all 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.960 think that that's where they always went. So you know, 0:18:15.080 --> 0:18:18.400 of course, the thing about science you can't observe when 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:23.080 it affected. Granted that usually applies only to the quantum world, 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.119 but go with me on this one. Another one was 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:31.040 plasma jet electric thrusters super awesome, you know, alternate alternate 0:18:31.040 --> 0:18:35.000 propulsion system. This was really just to test out a 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:39.960 propulsion system, so not something to that would be built. Yeah, 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:43.000 this is more to to try and perfect the actual 0:18:43.040 --> 0:18:45.640 technology here on Earth so that one day it could 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:49.359 be incorporated into spacecraft that would launch from some other means, 0:18:49.480 --> 0:18:51.080 you know, we would get it up into space and 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.200 then this would be its propulsion once up in space. 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:57.760 So that was really cool. That's successfully funded back in 0:18:57.760 --> 0:18:59.520 two thousand and twelve, and there are a lot of 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.880 other checks on Kickstarter. Almost all of them are space related, 0:19:03.000 --> 0:19:06.520 not not every single one, but most of them. Space 0:19:06.560 --> 0:19:08.560 tends to be one of the ones that people get 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:12.080 really excited by. It's pretty inspiring. Yeah, it's you can 0:19:12.119 --> 0:19:15.679 see how that could get someone's imagination going. You know. 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:20.440 It's it's a little harder sometimes to suggest to people, Hey, uh, 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.200 why don't you contribute to this. We're going to be 0:19:22.240 --> 0:19:27.000 studying this fungus. You know, space is the final frontier. 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.560 Threshes are not. No, but it was successful. Of course, 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:32.760 it did have a very modest goal. Two thousand dollars 0:19:32.800 --> 0:19:36.520 was not a whole lot. So as far as the 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.200 pros and cons of all these different kinds of funding 0:19:39.200 --> 0:19:42.320 strategies go, there's some that are pretty similar. Like I 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:46.479 said before, the government and private foundation grants are pretty 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:49.200 close in the way that generally you have to go 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.119 about trying to secure one. So if you're a scientist 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.439 and you need to get funding for your project, probably 0:19:55.480 --> 0:19:58.080 want to write up a grant proposal. Yeah, probably gonna 0:19:58.119 --> 0:20:01.399 write up lots of grant proposal because the first you 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:02.920 need to learn how to do that thing, because it's 0:20:02.920 --> 0:20:05.560 actually really complicated. No, it's not easy. The people who 0:20:05.720 --> 0:20:08.159 who specialize in this. I mean they can spend, you know, 0:20:08.440 --> 0:20:12.000 quite a long time just working on one let alone multiples, 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:14.639 and you'd never want to put all of your scientific 0:20:14.680 --> 0:20:17.639 eggs in one scientific basket. So you're probably applying for 0:20:17.720 --> 0:20:21.160 multiple grants. Especially if there's a limit on how much 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:24.280 can be rewarded and your project has a budget that's 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.520 greater than that limit, you're going to need multiple grants. 0:20:28.080 --> 0:20:30.439 So uh, that means that you're going to have to 0:20:31.080 --> 0:20:35.160 apply to lots of different either government programs or private foundations, 0:20:35.200 --> 0:20:38.200 or a combination of the two. And while you're doing that, 0:20:38.480 --> 0:20:41.159 you've got to keep in mind all the other scientists 0:20:41.280 --> 0:20:44.199 are doing the same thing. Everyone is competing for that 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:47.040 same pool of money that is represented either by the 0:20:47.080 --> 0:20:51.280 government or these private foundations. Now, in some cases, private 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:54.720 foundations are concentrating on specific types of science, So it 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:57.399 may be that your project falls in their purview and 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.240 you're fine, but some other project doesn't, and so you 0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.520 don't have to compete directly with them. But they're still 0:21:02.520 --> 0:21:05.040 going to be competition no matter what it is. Oh yeah, 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:08.120 and and as we mentioned earlier, the amount of money 0:21:08.160 --> 0:21:11.840 that the government has to give according to budgets is 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:16.320 not usually greater year over years. No, it's sadly our 0:21:16.400 --> 0:21:21.080 our investment in science has either for most year's plateaued 0:21:21.160 --> 0:21:24.520 or taken a dip um. There are some special initiatives 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.679 that give more money to very specific areas of research, 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:29.440 and that's really cool, right, you know, when you get 0:21:29.480 --> 0:21:32.240 to just broad exploratory science, that's where it starts to 0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:36.639 get It's hard. It's a hard sell because you're asking people, look, 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:41.280 we're specifically wanting to look into the mystery to find 0:21:41.320 --> 0:21:44.399 out what's there. We don't know what's there, and we 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:46.680 don't know that anything we find will be of any 0:21:46.680 --> 0:21:49.919 practical use. It's hard to convince people to pay for 0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:53.280 that because that's tough, especially if you're trying to convince 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:56.479 bureaucrats and politicians or for that. I mean, it's not 0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:01.320 just anybody. It's people who specifically are uh very conscious 0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.040 about the budget because they have to answer to the 0:22:04.080 --> 0:22:06.000 people for it. And then a lot of times they're 0:22:06.040 --> 0:22:10.560 not necessarily sympathetic to what you're trying to research, especially 0:22:10.600 --> 0:22:13.679 if they themselves don't have a background in science, because 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:16.880 it's harder again for them to have that sympathetic view 0:22:17.080 --> 0:22:19.960 you've heard these clips before of politicians making fun of 0:22:20.080 --> 0:22:24.000 government funded science projects that studying you know, fruit flies 0:22:24.200 --> 0:22:28.720 or studying mold. Ha ha ha ha ha. It's like 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:32.080 they just don't understand that, Oh, that's actually something worth studying. 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:34.720 We're learning very important things from doing that. Yeah, it's 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:37.160 once and again it's hard to communicate that with someone 0:22:37.200 --> 0:22:39.320 who doesn't have that same background, especially you know, and 0:22:39.400 --> 0:22:43.120 some scientists are are great scientists, but not great communicators. 0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:46.919 So that actually problem so very complex here. Also, on 0:22:47.000 --> 0:22:51.639 top of that, it requires scientists to dedicate a huge 0:22:51.640 --> 0:22:55.040