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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. Welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast. I'm

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Speaker 1: your host, Mark Kenyan, and this is episode number fifty six.

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Speaker 1: Team the show, we're discussing quality deer management co ops

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Speaker 1: and we're joined by an expert on this topic, Anna Mitterly.

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Speaker 1: All right, welcome to the Wired to Hunt podcast, brought

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Speaker 1: to you by the good people at Sick of Year.

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Speaker 1: Now today, as I mentioned a few seconds ago, we're

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Speaker 1: going to be discussing all the deer management co ops,

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Speaker 1: what they are and how they work. And joining us

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Speaker 1: is a co op specialist of sorts from Michigan. Actually,

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Speaker 1: Anna Middling. But before we get in on the phone,

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Speaker 1: damn a trusty co host, We've got some catching up

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Speaker 1: to do. Yes, we do. And before we get into

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Speaker 1: that real quick, um, you know now that we have

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Speaker 1: like a sponsor for the show, you know, Sick of Gear.

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Speaker 1: I think it's almost correct me if I'm wrong, but

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Speaker 1: I feel like the people need more flair. Do you

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Speaker 1: do you like, have any explosions or anything like or

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Speaker 1: that you can add like or maybe like lightning striking

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Speaker 1: or thunder sound effects because I've heard I've heard some

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Speaker 1: other podcasts and they got some like, you know, like

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Speaker 1: those kind of things. Are are we not those kind

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Speaker 1: kind of people? You know, the professional ones out there,

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Speaker 1: they probably have like a soundboard where they input, you know,

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Speaker 1: really professional sound effects and stuff. But if you want

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Speaker 1: sound effects, I think probably the best way to do

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Speaker 1: it is to have you literally be our sound effect man.

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Speaker 1: So you have to that's your job the rest of

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Speaker 1: the podcast, the rest of the year. I'm gonna say,

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Speaker 1: Dan is, whenever you feel fit, whenever you see fit,

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Speaker 1: I want you making d I Y sound effects. All right,

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Speaker 1: I'm just gonna give you an example right now, so

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Speaker 1: it's gonna be like, all right, welcome to the Wired

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Speaker 1: and Hot podcast, brought to you by the good people

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Speaker 1: at sick Gear, where our our gear is sick terrific. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, I I'm speechless, as as I often name.

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Speaker 1: You take that, I'll take that as a no. I'll

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Speaker 1: take that as you know. I like your creativity. I'm

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Speaker 1: just I'm spitballing a brainstorm and spitball and that's your specialty.

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Speaker 1: So other than other than brainstormy and I don't know

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Speaker 1: where you come up with the stuff. I think my

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Speaker 1: brain has problems. Yeah, well, hey, you've got a couple

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Speaker 1: of kids that can see you've got all sorts of

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Speaker 1: crazy things going on. So what's what's new with you

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Speaker 1: other than your brain stormy? I'll tell you what I

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Speaker 1: don't know about you. But you know that I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to see pictures online of Bucks and Velvet, And this

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Speaker 1: weekend I just got all my um, a majority of

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Speaker 1: my trail cameras and my mineral stations out, so they're

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Speaker 1: soaking right now. And then the next month when I

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Speaker 1: go and finally go get a chance to go check them,

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Speaker 1: you know that that Velvet rut train is starting to slowly,

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Speaker 1: you know, get into gear and and uh, I'm just

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Speaker 1: and then today it just got me flipping through old

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Speaker 1: trail camera pictures of previous years and I'm just like

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Speaker 1: starting to drool. Yeah, yeah, I'm right there with you.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it what it is, but for me,

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Speaker 1: it's like I kinda you know, we're always thinking about

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Speaker 1: white tails. We talked about this stuff all the time.

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Speaker 1: But I kind of go on in a very slight

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Speaker 1: lull in the you know, late winter, early spring, but

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Speaker 1: right about this time, like May, when it starts feeling

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Speaker 1: like summers arriving again, I all of a sudden get

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Speaker 1: those juices flowing again at an even higher rate. And

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Speaker 1: so the last few days I've been reading through all

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Speaker 1: my old North American white tails, and I've been watching

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Speaker 1: some deer hunting DVDs at night, and I'm really I'm

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Speaker 1: really getting it's just like you said to you know,

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Speaker 1: pretty soon here the antlers are gonna be showing up.

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Speaker 1: And I've been seeing some people posting pictures of bucks

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Speaker 1: with pretty decent growth so far, Um, you have good basses. Um.

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Speaker 1: I saw a picture a nice one out pass his

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Speaker 1: ears already with yeah, i'll pass his ears and nice brow.

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Speaker 1: Time's coming up. He was literally, he wasn't mistud um.

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Speaker 1: And I was out turkey hunting with a friend this

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Speaker 1: weekend and I didn't see the deer, but he did.

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Speaker 1: He saw a buck that the same thing. He said,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty close to his ears, looked like a

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Speaker 1: nice three or four year old, So awesome. Yeah, it's happening.

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Speaker 1: It's happening. I just I don't know. And then there's

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Speaker 1: nothing better than you know, So I'm gonna have my

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Speaker 1: truck cameras out for a month, right, and and I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna get like thousands of pictures on them. So you're

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Speaker 1: just sitting there and it just kind of becomes monotonous,

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Speaker 1: and all of a sudden it's boom, big mature buck.

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Speaker 1: And then you're just like and and and it's just

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Speaker 1: like that fire starts to build and and uh, I'll

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Speaker 1: be honest, I've already lost sleep thinking about like micromanaging

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Speaker 1: my tree stands, setups for this for this upcoming season.

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Speaker 1: It's it's so stupid. It's only get worse. Yep, yeah, yep, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I can't wait. See said you've got all your cameras

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Speaker 1: up last weekend, a majority of them? Um I have.

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of waiting to hear back from a farmer

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Speaker 1: closer to where I where I actually live, uh, to

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Speaker 1: see if I'm gonna have access to ncres this year.

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Speaker 1: And it's just something to do so I can hunt

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Speaker 1: closer to home and not have to drive down down

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Speaker 1: to my main farm every weekend. Maybe just like when

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Speaker 1: that loll hits, you know, instead of going down there

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Speaker 1: and wasting a weekend, I can hunt up here. Um

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Speaker 1: who knows. You know, there's also been rumors of a

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Speaker 1: two in in the area, So there's genetics. There's genetics

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Speaker 1: around here too. Yeah. I mean it's hard to go

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Speaker 1: wrong in Iowa. Yeah for sure. Yeah, I'm psucked. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if we talked about it. Did I talk

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Speaker 1: about my trip down to Ohio on the podcast yet

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Speaker 1: couple for mineral or did you do some turkey hunting?

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Speaker 1: Which both both okay? Did we talk about two or

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Speaker 1: three weeks ago me and my buddy Josh went down

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Speaker 1: to our Ohio property and did some turkey hunting. Um,

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Speaker 1: I got a bird that first morning, and we would

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Speaker 1: have had a double I called two nice. Well, I

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Speaker 1: was actually three times it came in and uh, I

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Speaker 1: don't know. My my buddy Josh just decided he wanted

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Speaker 1: to let one live another day, so it didn't quite

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Speaker 1: work out, but UM got a bird down and then

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Speaker 1: after that we hung two cameras and put out some

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Speaker 1: mineral and uh, we're excited to see you know who's

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Speaker 1: gonna be showing up this year. There's uh high hopes

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Speaker 1: for the buck. I called Glenn. You you've heard about him, Um,

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Speaker 1: he'll be This will be our third year hunting him.

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Speaker 1: And as of January second of this year. You know,

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Speaker 1: he was alive and kicking, and I got some video

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Speaker 1: of him, so hopefully he should be still around and

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Speaker 1: he'll just be unbelievable there. He'll be a five and

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Speaker 1: a half year old. He was pushing one seventy last year,

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Speaker 1: so he could be you know, who knows what he'll be.

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Speaker 1: He's just a massive, massive typical, so you know, he

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Speaker 1: could be in the seventies again, he could be in

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Speaker 1: the eighties, who knows. But either way, he'll'll just be

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Speaker 1: an amazing, mature, beautiful deer that I've got a lot

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Speaker 1: of history with and I missed him two years ago

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Speaker 1: as a three year old, so that farm was awesome. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's a great spot. So excited about him. And

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Speaker 1: there's there's two other booners that were around the end

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Speaker 1: of last year that we know we're alive in the

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Speaker 1: late seasons. They could be around. A bunch of different

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Speaker 1: bucks that were three year olds last year that we

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Speaker 1: think made it so they'll be four years four year

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Speaker 1: olds this year. So I'm stoked. My issue though, is

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Speaker 1: that I with those cameras up the beginning of May.

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Speaker 1: You know, we went down there for that trip, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna be able to get back to that

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Speaker 1: property until August, so I have to wait, you know,

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Speaker 1: three months. I think that writes early May of June,

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Speaker 1: two July, and obviously over three months. I have to

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Speaker 1: wait until I can check those pictures. And that's gonna

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Speaker 1: kill me. Why don't you have your buddy go check them? Well,

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Speaker 1: I could, I guess, but I you want to save

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Speaker 1: the glory for yourself. You know, I wouldn't if he went,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't care, but I'd say, I feel like he's

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Speaker 1: usually he'll just go down there when I go down there. Um,

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Speaker 1: but if you want to go, I'm all for that

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Speaker 1: because I'd love to see what's there and probably get

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Speaker 1: more pictures. If we could, you know, refresh the mineral

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Speaker 1: stations and clear the cards and stuff. Um, that long,

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Speaker 1: I would go crazy. Oh I know, I'm gonna be

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Speaker 1: sitting here itching, just dying. But the good thing is,

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Speaker 1: you know, last year it was sort of a similar situation.

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Speaker 1: I was planning on going down more often. I just

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Speaker 1: got busy. So we set the cameras in early May

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Speaker 1: last year and we came back mid August and the

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Speaker 1: batters were still good in the cameras that they're still

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Speaker 1: taking pictures and we just had as you know, just

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Speaker 1: amazing trail camera pull that day. So I'm hoping we'll

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Speaker 1: come back for the same thing. And uh, this property

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Speaker 1: has got beans on it this year. So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: try to get a night where I can just sit

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Speaker 1: in the field and do some filming and hopefully see

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Speaker 1: some big boys come out in the field at night

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Speaker 1: and check the cameras and otherwise pretty much all the

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Speaker 1: stands are ready to go. You know, we've we've kind

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Speaker 1: of figured the farm out over the past two years

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Speaker 1: to you know, to a decent degree. So just those

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Speaker 1: maintenance and exactly just some maintenance, some some checking pictures

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Speaker 1: and seeing who we see. And I'm excited. I Uh,

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Speaker 1: I got, you know, a couple of bucks that I

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Speaker 1: shot last year, um back yesterday from the taxidermist, so

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Speaker 1: umures on Facebook. Pretty cool seeing seeing those guys come

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Speaker 1: back to to life to some degree. Um, you can

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Speaker 1: get to think back on all those awesome memories. So

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Speaker 1: I'm excited. I'm excited. Have you got to do any

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Speaker 1: turkey on it yet? I okay, you know how me

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Speaker 1: and kind of have this, well we at first we

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Speaker 1: kind of disagreed about, you know, going out and taking

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Speaker 1: other hunters hunting. So I figured, if I'm gonna do it,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna do it during turkey hunting, all right. So

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Speaker 1: I took my wife out, who was not a new

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Speaker 1: hunter for turkey. So and at the time she was

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Speaker 1: thirty eight weeks pregnant, and uh, I took her out.

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Speaker 1: She got real close to it. Tom. He just didn't

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Speaker 1: come in front of the blind. He was actually like

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Speaker 1: thirty yards away, but to the side of us. And

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Speaker 1: then my good friend I've known him since eighth grade

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Speaker 1: and we're just you know, he was in my wedding

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Speaker 1: all that good stuff. I took him out. He bought

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Speaker 1: a brand new shotgun, and uh, we went turkey hunting

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Speaker 1: around here where I live. We I got I called

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Speaker 1: in a Tom twenty thirty yards from him, and he

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Speaker 1: got he got into position. We weren't in the ground blind,

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Speaker 1: We were just kind of walking through the woods, started

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Speaker 1: strutting behind us in this field, and he really know

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Speaker 1: how to use a shotgun. So he pulled the trigger.

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Speaker 1: Nothing happened. His action wasn't all the way forward, and

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Speaker 1: so he was The crazy part about it is he

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Speaker 1: was he was actually able to take the bullet out,

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Speaker 1: put anyone in thinking it might have been a dud,

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Speaker 1: put the action forward, but not all the way Again,

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Speaker 1: he pulled the trigger like three times and nothing happened.

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Speaker 1: Then finally I'm just like, Okay, you don't know how

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Speaker 1: to use this gun. Don't kill yourself. So now I

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Speaker 1: give him crap and I call him, you know, I

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Speaker 1: just say, man, I got you in position you are.

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Speaker 1: You are literally the worst hunter in the world if

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Speaker 1: you can't kill you know. I give him some crap

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Speaker 1: about that, But but no, man, I got set up

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Speaker 1: on a farm this year where the turkey we're just

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Speaker 1: very numerous, top tons and tons of birds, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I gave up a lot of my time for other people.

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Speaker 1: And then plus with my wife being pregnant, that limited

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Speaker 1: my time. So I kind of the season turkey hunting

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Speaker 1: wise is a wash for me. Well, at least you've

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Speaker 1: got some people out there. Yeah, for sure. I had

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Speaker 1: a hecko turkey season. I went six for seven. So

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Speaker 1: when I say that I went out on I went

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Speaker 1: turkey hunting seven times, of which twice I had a

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Speaker 1: tag and the other times I was just there helping

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Speaker 1: a friend or my dad um and there were birds

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Speaker 1: killed six out of seven times. So I killed a

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Speaker 1: nice time in Michigan. On my first more, my my

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Speaker 1: second more, I passed on a bird, three birds the

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Speaker 1: first morning, killed my bird the second morning. Next morning,

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Speaker 1: I got my buddy Josh and a bird. That evening

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Speaker 1: I got my dad a bird. And then I went

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Speaker 1: back out um in Ohio. I killed my bird the

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Speaker 1: first morning my Josh and Josh missed his, so that's

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Speaker 1: my my my seventh that didn't happen. And then I

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Speaker 1: went out this past weekend, took my buddy Corey along

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Speaker 1: with another friend Andy. We went out there and called

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Speaker 1: one in. Corey got his, so I had a lot

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Speaker 1: of dead birgency. There was a lot of fun, really fun.

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Speaker 1: Just the turkeys were cooperating and and uh and I

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Speaker 1: didn't screw up so good. And turkey hunting is awesome.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's loud, it's fast, and when it's good,

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Speaker 1: it's it can be really fun and it's something to

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Speaker 1: do when we're not white tail hunting. So it just

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Speaker 1: kind of keeps us outside and I don't know, I

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Speaker 1: just it's it's I just love sitting in the pitch

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Speaker 1: black dark and as that sun comes up, just yeah,

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Speaker 1: hearing them fire off like that just before dayly, that's

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Speaker 1: the best, just sitting there. I love. I like turkey

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Speaker 1: hunting more with like a friend or two than just

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Speaker 1: by myself because I love like I remember that first

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Speaker 1: that morning when I was out there with my dad

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Speaker 1: and Josh, and as soon as they started striking up,

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Speaker 1: it's just like we turn a look at each other,

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Speaker 1: and every time one gobbls and another and another another,

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Speaker 1: you just look at each oyl like start laughing. So

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Speaker 1: it's good stuff. But now that's done, and really there's

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Speaker 1: nothing but I mean, we've we've gone through shed season,

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Speaker 1: We've gone through turkey season. Now it's it's just the

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Speaker 1: velvet rut. We got the summer antler girl going and

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Speaker 1: then it's time to hunt again. So man, it's it's

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Speaker 1: time to it's start. It's actually time to start working.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know you got food plots. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: other people have food plots, you know. Here coming up

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Speaker 1: is when I start trimming out my tree stands. And uh,

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Speaker 1: literally before you know it, we're gonna be leaving for

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Speaker 1: Idaho for our mule deer hunt. And I gotta be

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Speaker 1: ready by then because when I come back, I have

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Speaker 1: a couple of weddings in September and uh and one

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Speaker 1: actually in October, so I got I have to be

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Speaker 1: ready to go by October for Yeah. Yeah, I'm I'm

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Speaker 1: right there with it. It's gonna be a lot of work.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna be gone June July, so I can only

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Speaker 1: do my work in August, and then you know, as

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Speaker 1: you know, it'll be Idaho mule deer hunting, Idaho elk hunting,

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Speaker 1: and then I'm actually going out for another elk hunting

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Speaker 1: trip now later in September, and then uh get home

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Speaker 1: and then it's right back to white tails in Ohio

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Speaker 1: and Michigan. And I might be coming into your home

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Speaker 1: state this year too, buddy, Just stay out of my area.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try get on your neighbors and try to

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Speaker 1: kill the market. Till I see some jacked up wired

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Speaker 1: to truck, wired to hunt truck sitting in the field

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Speaker 1: where right where I do my best day, I'd probably

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Speaker 1: slash your tires. I wouldn't blame you well on that

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Speaker 1: note on you slashing my tires. Um. Today we're talking

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Speaker 1: about co ops qtum co ops and and you know,

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Speaker 1: the power and what you can do with a group

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Speaker 1: of people managing deer together in some way. But I

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Speaker 1: don't want to talk about too much. I want to

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Speaker 1: let our guests, who's really an expert on this tell

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Speaker 1: us more about what these are and how we can

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Speaker 1: use them and how that can help our hunting um

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Speaker 1: and that's Anna middling Um And she's got a pretty

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Speaker 1: cool job here in Michigan where she's specifically working with

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Speaker 1: co ops. So I want to get her here on

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Speaker 1: the show, Dan to to talk to us about that,

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Speaker 1: talk about what she's doing, and talk about how all

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Speaker 1: of us can can maybe harness the power of qudum

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Speaker 1: co ops. So with that said, should we get her

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Speaker 1: on the line. Let's do it all right here we

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Speaker 1: go all right here with this on the line? Now,

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Speaker 1: is Anna Marling Welcome to the show? Anna, thank you. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're We're thrilled to have you on the line and

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Speaker 1: on the show. And I've been seeing your name pop

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Speaker 1: up all of our own line and in different publications

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Speaker 1: over the last few months, and I knew I wanted

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Speaker 1: to get you on the show to talk about this

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Speaker 1: topic because we haven't really talked about this at all,

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Speaker 1: but it's an important thing, and that's co ops specifically,

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Speaker 1: you know, given the fact that we're dear guys, you know,

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Speaker 1: white tail quality deer management co ops. So we're hoping

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Speaker 1: to pick your brain all about this kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: But before we do that, I want to maybe set

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Speaker 1: some context here for why you're the person we want

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Speaker 1: to talk to about this and as I understand it,

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Speaker 1: and your official job title is Wildlife Cooperative Coordinator, So

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Speaker 1: I guess, first is that correct? And then secondly, can

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Speaker 1: you tell us what that means? Yeah, that's correct. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a unique to edition by the way, I think

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Speaker 1: there's only two in the country that I know of anyway,

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Speaker 1: So but yes, that's correct. And what I do or

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Speaker 1: what that position does, is it? I mean, it's kind

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Speaker 1: of what the title is as far as coordinating cooperatives,

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Speaker 1: But my job is kind of to be a a

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Speaker 1: point person or a middle person to connect cooperatives with

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Speaker 1: resources that help them out and give them benefit. So

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Speaker 1: whether it's bringing in dn R resources, you know, whether

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Speaker 1: it's personnel, information, money, um or I don't. There's there's

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Speaker 1: so many different resources out there, so my jobs to

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Speaker 1: kind of go out and find out what different things

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Speaker 1: there are that can we have benefits to co operatives

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Speaker 1: and then bring them forward to provide them. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: I think the most natural question then that I have next.

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Speaker 1: And I know this given some experiences, but maybe some

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Speaker 1: of our listeners don't know what a cooperative is um

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Speaker 1: and I think once we figure that out, there would

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Speaker 1: be a ton of different questions. Me and Dan probably

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Speaker 1: have given a couple of things you said that, like,

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Speaker 1: I'm already curious about with these different resources are you're

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Speaker 1: talking about. But I guess for those that don't know

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Speaker 1: what is a co op when it comes to deer

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Speaker 1: on the deer side of things, what is that? What

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Speaker 1: are these groups that you're working with? Yeah, so they're

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Speaker 1: typically private landowners that come together to manage deer together.

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Speaker 1: So individuals still maintain their personal, you know, private land rights,

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Speaker 1: but it's more bringing the conversation to orient around a

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Speaker 1: larger quantity of properties and parcels than just you know,

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Speaker 1: forty acres. So if you have forty acres, you can't

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Speaker 1: do a whole lot managing wildlife, especially deer on that

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Speaker 1: and on the land. So you can get some other

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Speaker 1: landowners involved. It's pretty easy to get acreage numbers that

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Speaker 1: say two thousand for shorter term. You know early on,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the colops that I work with are

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Speaker 1: seven to ten thousand neighbors, and you can obviously account

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Speaker 1: and manage for a lot more at that scale than

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Speaker 1: you kind just by yourself. Yeah. Wow, that's incredible that

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Speaker 1: you've been able to work with some of there that

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Speaker 1: large I um. I was doing a little bit of

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Speaker 1: research before jumping on the call here, and I saw

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Speaker 1: that your position uniquely, or seems unique to me, is

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Speaker 1: funded not only by what I believe is your main

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Speaker 1: your main employer, MUCC, but also in partnership with the

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Speaker 1: Michigan DNR, the Quality Deer Management Association, and Pheasants Forever.

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Speaker 1: What how does that work? Why? Why are all these

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Speaker 1: different organizations coming together to essentially make your position a reality?

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Speaker 1: Or is that Yeah, that's completely accurate, that there are

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Speaker 1: awesome organizations that all has a very big role in

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Speaker 1: my position and that kind of I guess the background

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Speaker 1: on that is that wildlife for specifically Dear Cooperative, there's

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Speaker 1: something that came up in the Dear management planning process

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Speaker 1: that happened several years ago when the first draft came

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Speaker 1: through UM and so d and I saw a lot

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Speaker 1: of interest in that and put together a research program.

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Speaker 1: So I actually did the research in grad school and

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Speaker 1: deer cooperative and trying to understand why why they're successful,

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Speaker 1: what successful means and kind of what what are they doing? So,

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Speaker 1: what what makes them? How are they organized, what are

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Speaker 1: the different social aspects of it, um, what does their

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Speaker 1: harvest look like, and all that kind of stuff. So

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Speaker 1: DNA got really and really involved, really interested, very invested

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Speaker 1: in co ops in general. And as that research came

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Speaker 1: out and we were able to find things that indicated

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Speaker 1: huge success, especially in areas where there's higher deer densities

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Speaker 1: and reducing ant list populations a little bit and um

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Speaker 1: just working together as a group to accomplish goals and

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Speaker 1: cooperatives als will have much higher satisfactions than not in

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Speaker 1: cooperative punters do UM. So those brought in dnr UM

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Speaker 1: and they put out to find some partners to get

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Speaker 1: some additional funding. And the reason DNA was able to

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Speaker 1: put this funding together is because of the license package

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Speaker 1: that went through in Michigan. So they added a base

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Speaker 1: license and increased license fees a little bit for deer

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Speaker 1: and I think pretty much everything else had a few

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Speaker 1: dollar increase well, and QD and may became involved. Isn't

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Speaker 1: very natural aspect because dear cooperatives are primarily what most

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Speaker 1: of the groups have here in Michigan. And then peasants

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Speaker 1: forever became involved because the DNR has a peasant restoration initiative,

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Speaker 1: and so along with that there's I guess an aspect

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Speaker 1: that looks at promoting peasant cooperatives around the state to

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Speaker 1: increase connected land and making better habitat for peasants to

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Speaker 1: come back and be more successful here. And then MUCC

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Speaker 1: came along because I'm you, SEC is the perfect place

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Speaker 1: the host something that has multiple different partners involved, and

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Speaker 1: just the stakeholder presence that we have in the amount

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Speaker 1: of individuals and clubs and all the different things that

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Speaker 1: MUCC represents made it a perfect place for me to

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Speaker 1: actually be How is that and still represent different interests

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Speaker 1: of the different partners. Wow, Yo, if I took anything,

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Speaker 1: it sounds like you've got a lot of bosses. You know,

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Speaker 1: they all do really well. I I'MUC sees my boss um.

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Speaker 1: But we definitely do juggle interests that actually fit very

417
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Speaker 1: naturally together. In the other aspects, so it's it's pretty

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Speaker 1: pretty good. Gig actually sounds pretty cool. It's it's something

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Speaker 1: that's exciting to me to hear about. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: being a Michigan resident. Um, you know, me and my

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Speaker 1: friends and lots of different people I talked to you

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Speaker 1: as as a lot of us tend to sometimes get

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Speaker 1: we sometimes complain about the management of you know, the

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Speaker 1: wildlife resources in our state. Occasionally I'll me and my

425
00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,719
Speaker 1: friends will will grumble about the deer situation and different

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Speaker 1: things like that, and it's nice to see that. It

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Speaker 1: seems like the DNR and related organizations are actually listening

428
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:46,159
Speaker 1: to some of his feedback, you know that came out

429
00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: of that study you mentioned earlier, and are actually doing

430
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:51,479
Speaker 1: things like creating a position like this to address that

431
00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: to a degree, you know, promoting the idea of co

432
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 1: ops and the benefits of that. UM seems like a

433
00:22:56,720 --> 00:23:01,400
Speaker 1: really great actionable item that people that that the DNR

434
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: is moving forward on too, to address the fact that

435
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: people in Michigan want to see, you know, a better

436
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 1: quality deer hurt in some in some cases. So I'm

437
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:14,640
Speaker 1: encouraged to see that. Yeah, absolutely, I agree. The other thing,

438
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,120
Speaker 1: Um that I got to thinking about when you mentioned

439
00:23:18,160 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 1: that you had done some research on this UM in

440
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: graduate school. Is probably the coolest thing about you, which

441
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: is that you went to Michigan State University. Right, I

442
00:23:27,440 --> 00:23:30,640
Speaker 1: did go green, Go what I love it? Go Hawks.

443
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 1: You're you're outnumbered here, You're outnumbered. There's no chance you

444
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: got nothing here. I UM, I love snfellow spartan out

445
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:42,320
Speaker 1: there doing good work when it comes to deer. So

446
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,520
Speaker 1: that's cool. UM. Can you tell us about what that

447
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: research was that you did. Yeah, So primarily it was

448
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 1: a social networking and analysis social capital research. So I

449
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:57,880
Speaker 1: was just looking at how individuals utilize natural resources, UM,

450
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 1: and the social capital being the I guess how sinfiltrates

451
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:06,240
Speaker 1: in their lives and how it's captured. I don't know

452
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,280
Speaker 1: if that made any sense. I'm a little bit more

453
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 1: removed from graduate school. Essentially, the two key things that

454
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: I looked at was social networking and the influence of

455
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,560
Speaker 1: those individuals with in the co op on other people

456
00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: in the co op. And the fact that we looked

457
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,359
Speaker 1: at was doe harvest and the number of those that

458
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,760
Speaker 1: were harvested, and we saw that there were direct correlations

459
00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:32,360
Speaker 1: between UM. Say, you guys are my hunting buddies, I

460
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 1: would be much more likely to harvest more does if

461
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,320
Speaker 1: the two of you had harvested more does the previous year.

462
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: If you guys have got lestier, I'd be more likely

463
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,760
Speaker 1: to hunt lestier. That would mean that you influence my behavior. Um,

464
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 1: there's also the inverse response where if you guys harvested,

465
00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:49,720
Speaker 1: you know, three does, I might freak out and only

466
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: harvest one or maybe none because I thought you harvested

467
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,960
Speaker 1: too much. So we're able to measure and see that

468
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,600
Speaker 1: there was a distinct correlation between what the people that

469
00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:00,399
Speaker 1: you hunt went harvests as far as doe harvest goes,

470
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 1: and what you, as an individual then determined you were

471
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: going to do for your own behavior. That's pretty fascinating.

472
00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:09,159
Speaker 1: So what was the what did you end up finding?

473
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:11,680
Speaker 1: Was it that initial correlation or was it the inverse

474
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:13,880
Speaker 1: where people kind of panic and back off on the harvest.

475
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 1: It depended so pretty much that we're just looking to

476
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: see if there was influence. So there was influenced both ways.

477
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,960
Speaker 1: And some of the it studied seventeen cooperatives in particular,

478
00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: most of them are southern Michigan, so decreasing the population.

479
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 1: This is all pre e h D two. UM, decreasing

480
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 1: the population was a pretty big deal and a major

481
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 1: issue for concern and focus for d n R at

482
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: that point. And so most of them it was, you know,

483
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,120
Speaker 1: the first part where more guys were harvesting more deer

484
00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,600
Speaker 1: based on what they're you know, their colleagues were doing. UM.

485
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: There were a couple of groups that were opposite UM,

486
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,480
Speaker 1: but it just depended on the group. Essentially, there was

487
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: influence and that was what was interesting about it. Yeah,

488
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:59,320
Speaker 1: very interesting. So so I've done a pretty good amount

489
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 1: of work when it comes to UM, you know, understanding

490
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:06,560
Speaker 1: quality deer management and how co ops work. But I

491
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,960
Speaker 1: don't know if Dan is as familiar. So Dan, given

492
00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,760
Speaker 1: you know what she mentioned a few minutes ago, the

493
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: high overview of you know what a co op is,

494
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:15,639
Speaker 1: do you have any more questions for Anna, just in

495
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,080
Speaker 1: regards to what a q DM co op is or

496
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:20,480
Speaker 1: how it works. UM, you know or do you have

497
00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: a clear understanding? Yeah, I I understand what it is,

498
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 1: but I'm sure there's people out there who don't. So

499
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:28,720
Speaker 1: if you want to be I guess more specific and

500
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: elaborate a little bit on what an actual q d

501
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,680
Speaker 1: M A co op is well and might might maybe

502
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:38,960
Speaker 1: jump in a second. That's the question. I guess. I

503
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: think something you just said there is a common maybe misconception.

504
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: You said a q d M A co op Dan,

505
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: and so that's the Quality Deer Management Association. That's an organization,

506
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: and then there's just a philosophy of management, which is

507
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: the quality Deer management just philosophy or practice. And so

508
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,199
Speaker 1: my question Anna for you is can you have a

509
00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 1: co op that's not affiliated with the q d M A. Yes.

510
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: In fact, most are not directly affiliated with q d

511
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: M A UM. I would say that almost all of

512
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,000
Speaker 1: them directly disseminate information from q d M A. But

513
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: the only reason that they kind of dissociate the name

514
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,679
Speaker 1: a little bit is just simply because the misperceptions there

515
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: are about what q DMA seems form what they're about. UM.

516
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: But I think qt ME is an awesome organization regardless

517
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 1: of what I'm getting some of my paychecks and them

518
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: or not. But there's a lot of people that don't understand,

519
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:33,639
Speaker 1: you know, the true heart and breath I guess of

520
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 1: what q d may represent. So there's a very different,

521
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,359
Speaker 1: you know, a big difference between q d M and

522
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: q d m A. And I spent a lot of

523
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 1: time talking that over with my advisor in grade school,

524
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: explaining all the big, big difference. Um, yeah, there's cauldy

525
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: deer management, which is simply quality dear management and that

526
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,840
Speaker 1: is separate from q d m A. So can you

527
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: then pretend like we're your professor here that that you're

528
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:59,280
Speaker 1: having this discussion with Can you explain to us then

529
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: from your perspective, you know, and for these co opos

530
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:06,160
Speaker 1: that you're working with, how do they view quality dear

531
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: management or how they how do they define quality dear management?

532
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,399
Speaker 1: All right, now, before we get to that, I'd like

533
00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 1: to pause briefly to thank our partners at Sick of

534
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: Gear for the support of the Wired to Hunt podcast

535
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,159
Speaker 1: and starting next week, on each episode, we're going to

536
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: be featuring a series of really short q and as

537
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 1: with some employees from Sick of Gear about different types

538
00:28:26,359 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: of gear advice, frequently asked questions about SIKA and a

539
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,000
Speaker 1: whole lot more. So keep an eye out for that.

540
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,480
Speaker 1: But in the meantime, I want to give you heads

541
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: up on a pretty awesome giveaway. The CIA is running

542
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: this month and that continues the rest of May. Two

543
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: thousand and fifteen. Every day till the end of this month,

544
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: Sika is giving away prototypes of the brand new White

545
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 1: Tail line of gear. And here's how it works. Each day,

546
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 1: a new item or items is going to be given away,

547
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: but they don't tell you what the actual item is

548
00:28:54,680 --> 00:28:57,560
Speaker 1: for grabs that day. You just need to enter every day,

549
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: and then the next day they announced whoever one and

550
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,320
Speaker 1: what they want. So it's kind of a blind giveaway.

551
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: But it's cool because they're giving away an absolute ton

552
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: of things, I mean, something new or multiple items every

553
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: single day. Now what's cool is that, well, you know,

554
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 1: the average guy and girl doesn't know what's being given away.

555
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:21,080
Speaker 1: I actually have a little insider knowledge into what's going

556
00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 1: to be up for grabs on these final days of

557
00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: the month, and I'm gonna let you guys in on it.

558
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,200
Speaker 1: So here's a couple of hints. If you're listening today

559
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: May one, two thousand fifteen, make sure to enter today

560
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,120
Speaker 1: because they're going to be giving away a brand new

561
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,680
Speaker 1: Fanatic light jacket and that thing is awesome. I've been

562
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: wearing the Fanatic jacket and this is a slightly lighter,

563
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 1: lighter version of that that I think is gonna be

564
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 1: really cool, so be sure to sign up today for that,

565
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:49,719
Speaker 1: and then if you're the type who likes to make

566
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 1: a fashion statement and who's willing to try some new things,

567
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 1: make sure you enter on May because they'll be giving

568
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,400
Speaker 1: way too. Shack ITTs, Yes, it's a shacket. That's a

569
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,840
Speaker 1: T shirt jacket. It's you know, insulated like a jacket,

570
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,480
Speaker 1: but fit like a T shirt. And what it does

571
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:08,720
Speaker 1: is it keeps you warmer than a vest as it

572
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: covers your inner arms. You know, with a half sleeve,

573
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,320
Speaker 1: there where a lot of heats usually lost, but it

574
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: keeps the mobility that you'd have with a vest because

575
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: you don't have that lower sleeve. I've actually been wearing

576
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: it um this year so far. It did some early

577
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,760
Speaker 1: Turkey hunts with it and it's it's really cool. So

578
00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: make sure you go to Facebook dot com slash sick

579
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,640
Speaker 1: gear to enter that giveaway. Make sure you go to

580
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:31,800
Speaker 1: Facebook dot com slash sick of gear, where you're gonna

581
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,480
Speaker 1: see a post every single day with a link to

582
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 1: sign up for that day's giveaway. So check it out.

583
00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:38,920
Speaker 1: You've got to the end of May to sign up

584
00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,240
Speaker 1: for each day and uh, if you get some of

585
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: that stuff. I know you're gonna love it because the

586
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: new white tail gear launching in June is very cool.

587
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: Now back to the show. Yeah, well, essentially, I mean

588
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: it's how ket Ma does it. It's just taking the

589
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: a out. But it's really looking at having an overall

590
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: hard quality, so having good habits, to at having responsible harvest,

591
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: having a more balanced age structure, more balanced sex ratio,

592
00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:10,640
Speaker 1: and being able to see some more mature deer on

593
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,680
Speaker 1: the properties. Okay, so that's not sound like good things

594
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 1: like those are things I want where I hunt. Those

595
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,320
Speaker 1: are the things that Dan wants where he hunts. Um.

596
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 1: I guess my next next question then is let's say

597
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 1: Ma hunter sitting here at home than I am, and

598
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:29,200
Speaker 1: I'm wondering two things. This all sounds great and dandy. Um,

599
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: I'm wondering, First, do they work? Is this something that's

600
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 1: worth my time getting involved? And then the next thing

601
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna wonder is how do I get involved in one?

602
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: So either how do I find one or how do

603
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 1: I start one? But I'm thinking I want to start

604
00:31:42,000 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 1: here at the beginning. If I'm a skeptic, do quality

605
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: dear management co ops? Do dear co ops? Work Hannah. Yeah,

606
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: well it's a fun time who you talk to you,

607
00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 1: I mean, everyone's going to have different expectations and different experiences. UM.

608
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,959
Speaker 1: From what my research shows, yes, they absolutely work. They

609
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: were very big differences between harvests UM. So for example,

610
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 1: in Michigan, again, a lot of times we have high

611
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:11,480
Speaker 1: deer density, so we need to harvest those to manage that.

612
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: And the Buckerville harvest ratios among co ops was one

613
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 1: to two compared to the just the general Michigan deer

614
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: harvest services about one to one. So yes, there's a

615
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: difference there, you know, better management in an area where

616
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 1: we need to reduce deer populations. Yes, it works there.

617
00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: The other measure that I love to answer that question

618
00:32:32,280 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: with is satisfaction. Satisfaction is the number one indication of

619
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 1: recruitment or retention, and we need to have satisfied hunters

620
00:32:39,320 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: if we're going to have them continue hunting and if

621
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 1: they're going to bring their other buddies on board to

622
00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 1: join them in hunting. UM. And in Michigan, Southern Michigan,

623
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:50,200
Speaker 1: the deer harvest report again shows about a forty six

624
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: percent satisfaction UM. But within my co ops I found

625
00:32:53,840 --> 00:33:00,360
Speaker 1: about a seventy satisfaction around there. Some it was a

626
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: lot higher. So yes, they work. Um, it does take

627
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 1: time to see differences as far as what the harvest

628
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: looks like. I tell guys that typically takes four to

629
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 1: six years before you start seeing you know, more mature

630
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,520
Speaker 1: deer out there. Once you start passing on the younger ones.

631
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:18,800
Speaker 1: Is a collective group, um. And then once you get

632
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,600
Speaker 1: to seven to ten years, you have to start getting

633
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 1: a little bit more creative on how you maintain interactions

634
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:26,560
Speaker 1: with your co op members. So a lot of co

635
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: ops will have pre impost season meetings that will have

636
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:34,720
Speaker 1: habitat days or just different activities throughout the year to

637
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 1: keep people engaged. And you have to kind of set

638
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: the game up a little bit after a while to

639
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 1: keep it from just drying up and disseminating. Yeah, so

640
00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: what about the thing that a lot of guys initially

641
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 1: probably turned to co ops four If we're being honest

642
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,600
Speaker 1: about the situation, lots of hunters are wanting to see

643
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,720
Speaker 1: more sure, dear, and more large here right. We want

644
00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: to see big mature bucks. Most hunters that something gets

645
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: them pretty excited about do co ops? Can co ops

646
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:10,480
Speaker 1: help with that? Yes? So if you think about it.

647
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 1: A lot of times the reasons why people will say

648
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: that they don't see big boxes because everyone's shooting them

649
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,759
Speaker 1: young and no one wants to wait for you know,

650
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: you don't want to wait and let a buck pass

651
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:22,759
Speaker 1: if your neighbor is going to shoot them. And it's

652
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,560
Speaker 1: a very common perception that we have, I think a

653
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 1: lot of times with hunters that if we don't harvest

654
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: in our neighbors going to and one of the benefits

655
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: of co ops is if nothing else, that increases the conversation.

656
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: And a lot of times guys find out that you know,

657
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: the neighbor was shooting them because they thought you were

658
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: going to shoot him, and you were shooting them because

659
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: you thought your neighbor is going to shoot them. And

660
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: now that you both talked to each other, neither of

661
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 1: you are going to shoot them, and they're gonna let

662
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: them mature you that next year. UM. And so having

663
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 1: a co op and having that conversation and that communication

664
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,680
Speaker 1: open makes a big difference initially right there, just because

665
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 1: the communication is open. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

666
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:05,239
Speaker 1: I've even seen that personally where I hunt here in Michigan. UM,

667
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: I've been able to talk to some of my neighbors

668
00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: and kind of we don't have an official co op,

669
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 1: but just by talking to each other about you know,

670
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:14,160
Speaker 1: what our goals are and the possibilities. You know, we've

671
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: been able to see that, you know, talking about hey,

672
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 1: let's I'm gonna hold out for bucks of three years

673
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: or older. And if you do that too, and so

674
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 1: and so is doing it too, you know, it's a

675
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 1: pretty good chance that these deer are going to make

676
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:26,040
Speaker 1: it to that age. And I've gotten a handful of

677
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:28,359
Speaker 1: different people to jump on board with that because of it,

678
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 1: and you know, to a degree, we've been seeing some

679
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 1: success with them. So there's definitely I I personally think,

680
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: you know, you've obviously seen in a larger scale, but

681
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: I've seen it at a personal scale. There's definitely the

682
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 1: possibility to see that work. So Dan, I see you've

683
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: been taking some interesting notes here though on our little

684
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: note page. What do you what are you thinking here?

685
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:48,560
Speaker 1: What kind of questions do you have for and next?

686
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:51,560
Speaker 1: So the first question that pops into my head is,

687
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: you know, guys like me and Mark are all about

688
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: dear management and we but we may not hunt in

689
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: an area that has deer management all right, So if

690
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: if I own a piece of property and I wanted

691
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,520
Speaker 1: to talk to the neighbor who maybe Okay, for I'll

692
00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 1: just use my scenario for an example, we have party

693
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: hunters who will drive dear into a pinch point and

694
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: shoot everything that kind of walks by. How do I

695
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,120
Speaker 1: explain to those guys that maybe they shouldn't kill so

696
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: many doughs or they need to let the um the

697
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: young deer pass. How how do I approach someone who

698
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:32,040
Speaker 1: doesn't currently practice management? Yeah, well do you are you already? Like,

699
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:36,399
Speaker 1: do you have a relationship with them already? Uh? The relationship.

700
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: The relationship is I do know their name, and the

701
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:46,520
Speaker 1: only relationship I really have with them is, uh, hey,

702
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: what do you shoot last year? Okay, it sounds like

703
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:56,520
Speaker 1: a budding friendship. Yeah, that's a tough situation. And that's honestly,

704
00:36:56,520 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 1: I don't know how much of an answer other than

705
00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,960
Speaker 1: you know, maybe having a barbecue or something the property

706
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,680
Speaker 1: you hunt and invite them to come over and just

707
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: talk philosophy about hunting. I don't know. Um, but what

708
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:12,080
Speaker 1: makes the cooperative a little bit different as far as

709
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:16,480
Speaker 1: neighbors is you build a relationship and one of the things.

710
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: And I don't know if this helps the answer your

711
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: question a little bit, Um, but guys will call me

712
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:24,959
Speaker 1: up and they onlyand somewhere other than where they live,

713
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:27,160
Speaker 1: and they want to start a co operative at that

714
00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:32,239
Speaker 1: property that they purchased in the recent past. UM, I

715
00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 1: recommend that they find someone that was, you know, as

716
00:37:35,360 --> 00:37:38,440
Speaker 1: a local guy that's been there for twenty plus years

717
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: and it's part of our local community to have them

718
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 1: start up conversations. So you get someone else that's local

719
00:37:45,880 --> 00:37:47,960
Speaker 1: to buy into the concept and philosophy of what you

720
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:51,160
Speaker 1: want to accomplish and have them be the face of it. Um,

721
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,000
Speaker 1: just because a lot of guys have a hard time

722
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 1: having someone come from outside in and tell them what

723
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: to do, which is a lot of times how that

724
00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: conversation can be interpreted. So I guess my suggestion to

725
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,000
Speaker 1: you would then be to find someone that relates more

726
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: to what you know better management, maybe that can have

727
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 1: a conversation with you and those people rather than just

728
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 1: you going in right. Don't get me wrong, I mean

729
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: I know I know these people. I mean I grew

730
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,839
Speaker 1: up in the area. I just left, but I still

731
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: hunt there, so so I know these people. I guess

732
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: my question is I'm a I don't gun hunt, I'm

733
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:29,840
Speaker 1: only a bow hunter. I have very high standards. I

734
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: try to take one day a year and I tried

735
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:35,960
Speaker 1: to take a mature buck. All right. That goes from

736
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: you know, I kind of take it upon myself to

737
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:42,839
Speaker 1: not to harvest both sexes. But it's almost like there's

738
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:48,600
Speaker 1: a difference between my way of hunting and tradition, and

739
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,240
Speaker 1: I just feel that tradition is kind of hard to break.

740
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 1: Is there maybe a tip that you could provide me

741
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:57,560
Speaker 1: when I do come go to approach them, say, hey,

742
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:01,840
Speaker 1: you know, in a nicer way, layoff the mass murder.

743
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,880
Speaker 1: Can I jump in? Yeah, I've got I've got a

744
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 1: thought something that's worked for me, and maybe you've got

745
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: something totally different on your mind. Ander. But when it

746
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,560
Speaker 1: comes to that type of deal, the way I found,

747
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,200
Speaker 1: at least to to start these conversations is I think,

748
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 1: like you mentioned, and the most important thing is is

749
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: finding a way to start that relationship. And and that's

750
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:25,960
Speaker 1: where this has to start, because it's, like you mentioned,

751
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:27,799
Speaker 1: if you are, if you're an outsiderer coming in who

752
00:39:27,800 --> 00:39:29,880
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you know, knock knock, knock on

753
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: the neighbor's door and say, hey, you're shooting too many deer,

754
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 1: or you're shooting the wrong deer, or I don't like

755
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,920
Speaker 1: how you're doing it. That's not gonna work farewell. So

756
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:39,440
Speaker 1: what I've always thought the best, the best way to

757
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 1: go about it was is to just first focus on

758
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:44,600
Speaker 1: developing that relationship, just to basic hey, I hunt, you hunt,

759
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: nice to meet you, great to get to know you,

760
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,480
Speaker 1: talk about it. Just just develop those seeds of relationships,

761
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: and then the next step for me has always been

762
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:56,200
Speaker 1: trail camera pictures because that's something that people get excited about,

763
00:39:56,200 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: regardless of if they practice QTM or not. People love

764
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,359
Speaker 1: seeing pictures of so I like to show them, Hey,

765
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: you know, I've been getting some pretty good bucks on

766
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,359
Speaker 1: camera here. I've been, you know, seeing some pretty good

767
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,919
Speaker 1: deer here and show them some pictures. And sometimes you'll

768
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,800
Speaker 1: have a guy who's like, oh, man, I know that bucker.

769
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,600
Speaker 1: Oh I've I've seen some good ones too, and they'll

770
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:14,840
Speaker 1: pull out their phone and we'll start looking at pictures together,

771
00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:17,279
Speaker 1: and so there's a connection. Right now we're seeing some

772
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,440
Speaker 1: good deer and we're talking about it. And through that

773
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,240
Speaker 1: now I can start to sort of through that conversation starter,

774
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: Now I can sort of start to gauge whether or

775
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: not they do care about older age class deer, or

776
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 1: if they have any standards when it comes to what

777
00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 1: they're shooting, or if they're even aware of these different

778
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:33,760
Speaker 1: kinds of things. So then I can kind of gauge

779
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,040
Speaker 1: where they stand on things just through that part of

780
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:39,279
Speaker 1: the conversation. And then let's say, maybe they haven't been

781
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: managing to any degree. They have been shooting whatever they see.

782
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:45,759
Speaker 1: But now at least what I found is by showing them, hey,

783
00:40:45,880 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: here's a good buck I'm waiting until he gets to

784
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,280
Speaker 1: next year, or these are some bucks that I've been passing,

785
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,319
Speaker 1: and now they've gotten to this age class, they start saying, wow,

786
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 1: there are some big deer around here. So for the

787
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 1: guys maybe that are more the traditionalist dan maybe that

788
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 1: just go out there and gunhunt every once in a while,

789
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: and maybe they don't on cameras and they don't really

790
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,880
Speaker 1: pay attention to that stuff. I think in some cases,

791
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,799
Speaker 1: if you show them that, hey, they're they're look at

792
00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,799
Speaker 1: the potential, like there are some deer like this. But

793
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:12,120
Speaker 1: if we want to hunt more older, bigger deer like this,

794
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:13,880
Speaker 1: you know I've been The way I found to do

795
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,760
Speaker 1: that is to pass on the young ones, and those

796
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:19,080
Speaker 1: conversations can sometimes start. And so I've done a bunch

797
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 1: of that trail camera bouncing around with friends or with neighbors,

798
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,400
Speaker 1: talking about this pictures, sharing pictures, and over the past

799
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:25,920
Speaker 1: you know, three or four years, I've been hunting one

800
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,200
Speaker 1: of these properties. You know, more and more they're getting

801
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,440
Speaker 1: interested in it, and they're asking me some questions about, um,

802
00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:34,240
Speaker 1: you know, how I'm seeing these deer or how we're

803
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,759
Speaker 1: getting these deer to hang out on our property. And

804
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: I think that's you know, the seeds to getting those

805
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 1: coop or those QDM conversations started. UM. So I don't

806
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:45,480
Speaker 1: know that's what's worked for me. I don't know, have

807
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:47,520
Speaker 1: you seen anything different, Anna, or have anything to add

808
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,440
Speaker 1: to that. No, I think that's great. I do have

809
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:54,880
Speaker 1: some additions, UM, I have fully agree with that's an

810
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:57,960
Speaker 1: awesome way to build in a relationship and conversation. UM.

811
00:41:58,000 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 1: And the other part that I think you're legit to

812
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:01,800
Speaker 1: a little bit too, just by continuing to leave that

813
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,719
Speaker 1: example and so you know, sharing your hunting story and

814
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:09,760
Speaker 1: maybe talking about what you passed and UM, that stuff

815
00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,279
Speaker 1: as well, another thing and quality White Ties that just

816
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:15,800
Speaker 1: came out. They had a really good article and it

817
00:42:15,960 --> 00:42:18,240
Speaker 1: was talking about that neighbor and everyone has that neighbor.

818
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: And one of the things that they recommended was if

819
00:42:22,239 --> 00:42:25,959
Speaker 1: someone harvests a buck that maybe you would have passed on,

820
00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:28,440
Speaker 1: but you have trail camera pictures on and maybe from

821
00:42:28,480 --> 00:42:32,319
Speaker 1: previous years as well, taking those pictures that you've accumulated

822
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 1: over whatever period of time and giving them to the

823
00:42:35,680 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: person that harvested that deer. So it not only honors

824
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 1: the deer, but also, you know, honors the hunter, but

825
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,240
Speaker 1: it also shows that this is someone you've been watching

826
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: for a period of time that you have value for

827
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,400
Speaker 1: um and it's something that you thought about. It wasn't

828
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: just something that you would have pulled the trigger on

829
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: without thinking through and knowing what you've known about this

830
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 1: animal you've been watching for however long. That The other

831
00:43:02,960 --> 00:43:05,840
Speaker 1: thing is that you never know how things are going

832
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: to change down the road. So even if you're not

833
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: on the same page, just always being positive about where

834
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: you're at and being okay with where they are, because

835
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 1: do you want them to be able to come to

836
00:43:18,239 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: you later if they decide that they're going to start

837
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:23,759
Speaker 1: shifting their behavior and their thoughts process. And if you

838
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,520
Speaker 1: create a situation in any way that kind of makes

839
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 1: you seem like a jerk and someone that thinks what

840
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,400
Speaker 1: they're doing is totally unacceptable when a it's probably you know,

841
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: as long as it's legal and be they're satisfied with it.

842
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,359
Speaker 1: There's not really much you can do or say anyway. Um,

843
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: So you don't want to turn them off because of

844
00:43:41,239 --> 00:43:43,920
Speaker 1: something that you've said, or you put them down in

845
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 1: some way because of decisions and actions they're making that

846
00:43:46,560 --> 00:43:51,959
Speaker 1: they justify. Is fine. Yeah, so how does so let's

847
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: say we're in the we're in the starting phase of

848
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 1: this co op. All right, I've talked with my neighbor.

849
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:00,920
Speaker 1: I've talked with a couple neighbors in the area, and

850
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 1: we agree, okay, let's give this. Let's give this thing

851
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:08,400
Speaker 1: a try. That first year, my neighbor shoots a buck

852
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,600
Speaker 1: that is less than what we've kind of agreed upon

853
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 1: as a as a as a standard. You know, we're

854
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: not going to shoot any two year olds. We're gonna

855
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:21,520
Speaker 1: try to hold out for three year olds or four

856
00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:24,480
Speaker 1: year olds were you know, whatever, whatever they decide, or

857
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:26,800
Speaker 1: maybe they take a couple more dose than what was

858
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 1: agreed upon. How is how does that? Is there a

859
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,080
Speaker 1: way to police it without kind of sounding like a dictator?

860
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,280
Speaker 1: You don't want to, I mean, especially unless they're hunting

861
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:41,399
Speaker 1: in your property. If it's their property, you don't want

862
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,120
Speaker 1: to punish it. You don't want to make them the outcast, right,

863
00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:46,800
Speaker 1: So instead you put the peer pressure on by example

864
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: of sying the people that did things well. And you

865
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,680
Speaker 1: can't it a struggle to do that until a couple

866
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:53,399
Speaker 1: of years because you need to give ger a couple

867
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: of years to grow, you know. Um, But you don't

868
00:44:57,239 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 1: ever want to exile anyone or make them feel like

869
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,879
Speaker 1: what they did was horrible or degrade. Then it's more

870
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: just kind of oh nice the animal and move on,

871
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:11,080
Speaker 1: um and just not dwelling on it and really focusing

872
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:13,760
Speaker 1: on the awesome things that happened. Is there a positive

873
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: way to do that? Though? I mean to to say, hey, um,

874
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: I thought we had a discussion that we were going

875
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,359
Speaker 1: to do this or that, you know, without sounding like

876
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: a Debbie Downer. You can ask them I wouldn't do

877
00:45:24,440 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 1: it in a group setting. Yeah, so just one on

878
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: one point, Hey, I noticed this, Um, I just wondered

879
00:45:31,040 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: it didn't fit with what we had agreed to where

880
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: there's some extenuity circumstances or I mean, you can definitely

881
00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: do that, but until it becomes a repeat offense, I

882
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 1: probably want worry about it too much, especially in the

883
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: first couple of years. I think that this this topic

884
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:49,879
Speaker 1: right here, the idea of what happens when the other

885
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,760
Speaker 1: guy shoots the deer that I wish that they hadn't shot.

886
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:58,239
Speaker 1: I think this is like the overarching problem that has

887
00:45:58,320 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: led to the misconceptions that we mentioned at the very

888
00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: beginning of this that people have about the q d

889
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: m A and QDM in general. I think, you know,

890
00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:08,560
Speaker 1: you hear a lot of people talking on TV. You know,

891
00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,600
Speaker 1: I practice, you know that we we practice q DM,

892
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: But what they're doing really isn't the four main you know,

893
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:18,080
Speaker 1: uh concepts or core concepts of quality deer management. They

894
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,000
Speaker 1: might just they just shoot big deer, or they just

895
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:22,120
Speaker 1: try to shoot one fifty or whatever it might be.

896
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,319
Speaker 1: Or what you end up getting is these guys that

897
00:46:24,360 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: are trying to shoot a big deer, and then they

898
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,279
Speaker 1: they talk down to people that don't or they talk

899
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 1: down to people that aren't folloding the same standards that

900
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,560
Speaker 1: they have, or they talk down to people that have

901
00:46:34,719 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: different ideas of what constitutes a good deer hunt um.

902
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 1: And I think it's that negativity, you know, when some

903
00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,640
Speaker 1: becomes you know, being a jerk to another guy because

904
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 1: they shot a four corn or whatever. That is what

905
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: has given the idea of quality deer management a bad

906
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,440
Speaker 1: name in some people's eyes because they feel like because

907
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:54,360
Speaker 1: of a few bad apples. I think quality deer management

908
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 1: as an umbrella concept gets this black eye as being

909
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: a bunch of you know, jerks who you know, try

910
00:47:00,520 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: to tell everyone what they can shoot and what they

911
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,200
Speaker 1: can't shoot and only like big deery and they hate

912
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: on anyone who doesn't shoot big deer. And I think

913
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: that's that's a huge misconception because that's not what n

914
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: of the people who practice real quality or management are doing.

915
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:21,560
Speaker 1: Would you agree with that? Yeah? Perfect? So so then

916
00:47:21,600 --> 00:47:24,239
Speaker 1: I think that you know, to what you're asking Dan,

917
00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,319
Speaker 1: I think that's super important is like how you deal

918
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 1: with that. And I really liked your idea and of

919
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,480
Speaker 1: of not focusing on the negative and instead of you know,

920
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 1: instead of focusing on that, you know, still having a

921
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: conversation about it, maybe but really then just you know,

922
00:47:37,239 --> 00:47:39,520
Speaker 1: positive reinforcement to the people that are doing a great

923
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:44,120
Speaker 1: job and just kind of not give the positive reinforcement

924
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: to those who maybe aren't. But I think another thing

925
00:47:46,760 --> 00:47:49,960
Speaker 1: is just continue to focus on the education part of it,

926
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:52,799
Speaker 1: um because I think that's where, at least from what

927
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: I've seen them, from what I've heard, I think that's

928
00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: where these co ops can really be powerful. Is if

929
00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: you if you can get someone in the door who's,

930
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: you know, us kind of on the fence about it,

931
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: but they're intrigued enough and they like you enough, or

932
00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:06,480
Speaker 1: they like your idea enough to kind of give it

933
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:08,680
Speaker 1: a shot, if you can just get him in the

934
00:48:08,680 --> 00:48:13,879
Speaker 1: door and then provide that continuing education and talking about

935
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:15,759
Speaker 1: why we're doing what we're doing and what are the

936
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 1: results of what we've all been doing. As they see that,

937
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:20,840
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna find more and more people, you know,

938
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:23,719
Speaker 1: starting to really buy into it full, you know, whole hog,

939
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:25,719
Speaker 1: and more and more people. And maybe that first year

940
00:48:25,880 --> 00:48:27,560
Speaker 1: they end up shooting a really nice two year old

941
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: because the heck, I've never shot at idea that big,

942
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,480
Speaker 1: And if you were to knock him down and say, hey,

943
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,520
Speaker 1: you didn't you didn't follow rules, screw you, he's out.

944
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,759
Speaker 1: You know, he would have been negative, you know, had

945
00:48:36,760 --> 00:48:39,360
Speaker 1: that negative interaction and gotten out of there. But if instead, you,

946
00:48:39,640 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: like you said, had that more positive interaction with him,

947
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,480
Speaker 1: and then next year he learns a little bit more

948
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:46,000
Speaker 1: about why we're doing this, and he's like, yeah, you

949
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 1: know what, maybe I should have passed on that two

950
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 1: year old because he could have been a three or

951
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,879
Speaker 1: four year old and reached his full potential, and then

952
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,719
Speaker 1: he would have been like that deer that Dan shot

953
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: next door, which was you know, five and a half

954
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 1: year old, hundred and sixty three, you know, two d

955
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:01,520
Speaker 1: pound buck um. That could have been what happened. So

956
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 1: I think if you don't ruin it for them early on,

957
00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: you just open up the opportunities for them to see

958
00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:11,120
Speaker 1: it really come to fruition down the road. You have

959
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: to remember too, I mean, for a clop to be successful,

960
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: that has to be trust. You have to trust that

961
00:49:16,960 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: neighbors are actually going to pass like they say they're

962
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: going to pass. And so it makes sense that it's

963
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,360
Speaker 1: going to take a couple of years for that trust

964
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: to start to develop and being able to resist the

965
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: fear that if you don't shoot at your neighbors going

966
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 1: to and so you have to attribute some of it

967
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 1: to those kind of you know, thought processes as well,

968
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:38,960
Speaker 1: and not look at people so much as a rule breaker,

969
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 1: but more just someone that doesn't trust their neighbors yet

970
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,680
Speaker 1: and be a little bit accommodating and understanding that you know,

971
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: it's going to take some time for this to happen

972
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 1: on multiple levels. Yeah, so I want to take a

973
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: quick step backwards though here, um, because I think we've

974
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: talked a lot about you know, the benefits of a

975
00:49:56,680 --> 00:50:00,239
Speaker 1: co op and how maybe to manage someone's interaction within

976
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:02,719
Speaker 1: a co op. But what if I'm still at that

977
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: stage where I'm not a member of co op yet,

978
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,719
Speaker 1: but I want to be what what should someone do

979
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:10,000
Speaker 1: if they want to find a current co op or

980
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: if they want to start one themselves. How do you

981
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 1: how do you start that? Yeah? Well, if you're in Michigan,

982
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: I have a co op map that you can look

983
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:21,360
Speaker 1: at all the co ops that I'm aware of in Michigan,

984
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:25,319
Speaker 1: and there's over a d um so. I don't know

985
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:28,040
Speaker 1: if j could put the link or something on your website,

986
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:30,359
Speaker 1: but there's a link, there's a map there's a way

987
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 1: to do that in Michigan, UM if they're not in Michigan,

988
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: or another way you could do that is contact a

989
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 1: local cutie, may branch. A lot of times they're aware

990
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,280
Speaker 1: of the coopsid are in the area. UM. Another option

991
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:46,279
Speaker 1: would be to talk to like a regional biologist that

992
00:50:46,360 --> 00:50:48,200
Speaker 1: works for in the local agency. A lot of times

993
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:53,160
Speaker 1: they're involved with co operatives as well. And and then

994
00:50:53,200 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: what about if you want to start one yourself. So

995
00:50:56,880 --> 00:50:58,360
Speaker 1: if you want to start one, and again if you

996
00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:00,879
Speaker 1: live in Michigan or even Missouri for example, they also

997
00:51:00,920 --> 00:51:03,520
Speaker 1: have a wildlife colop coordinator. You can contact your coop

998
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: coordinator and find out you know what kind of resources

999
00:51:06,360 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: and the next steps there are. UM. One of the

1000
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,200
Speaker 1: first things I recommend doing though, is talking to a

1001
00:51:11,280 --> 00:51:13,760
Speaker 1: couple of your neighbors and making sure that you have interests,

1002
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: because you want to have a solid core group of

1003
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: people to start out with and to have the support of.

1004
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: And I had alluded before if you're not a local guy,

1005
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 1: you know, get someone that's local to join on and

1006
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:30,440
Speaker 1: you know, pick up the build look up with you. UM.

1007
00:51:30,520 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: So it would be your first couple of steps there. UM.

1008
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,760
Speaker 1: And then what you want to do is start strategizing

1009
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: what your personal goals for the cooper. Those it's seeing

1010
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 1: more mature, dear, Maybe it's you know, just having a

1011
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:45,440
Speaker 1: better understanding of what the population looks like on a

1012
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 1: landscape level. Maybe it's getting people together to help create

1013
00:51:49,239 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 1: better habitat. Um specifically it's just to let do you

1014
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: get to that next age class, but whatever it is,

1015
00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:58,640
Speaker 1: understand what your own personal goals would be for that cooperative,

1016
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 1: and then start talking to those other landowners that you've

1017
00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,279
Speaker 1: started connecting with and find out what some of their

1018
00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:07,400
Speaker 1: goals are as well. Um, you want things that are measurable, achievable, obtainable,

1019
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: and ways that you can look for indications that you're

1020
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:15,360
Speaker 1: taking steps in that direction as time continues on in

1021
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:21,799
Speaker 1: the future. Those are the key initial start offs there. Um.

1022
00:52:21,800 --> 00:52:23,760
Speaker 1: But you also want to have a meeting early on

1023
00:52:23,840 --> 00:52:25,960
Speaker 1: where you just invite other landowners in the area to

1024
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: come to and talk kind of about you know, so

1025
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: you want to start a co op. These are some

1026
00:52:30,040 --> 00:52:31,560
Speaker 1: of the things that we have in mind, but we

1027
00:52:31,600 --> 00:52:33,359
Speaker 1: want to hear from you guys as well. This would

1028
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,560
Speaker 1: be our cooperative that we're in on together, and it's

1029
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,920
Speaker 1: kicking off and you're part of that process. Okay that

1030
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: that seems to kind of fall in line with with

1031
00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: my assumption. That makes lost sense. Um, So damn, you're

1032
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: over there, your brain's churning. What do you what are

1033
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:55,000
Speaker 1: you wondering next in this process? Well, I don't know

1034
00:52:55,040 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 1: if it's necessarily next, but in regards to starting, um,

1035
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,640
Speaker 1: starting a co op, And maybe you can go back

1036
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,359
Speaker 1: to the research you did in southern Michigan. What kind

1037
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:12,040
Speaker 1: of roadblocks did you see when someone like myself remark

1038
00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: wanted to start a co op with with somebody? What

1039
00:53:15,760 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: what were something like? What were the excuses that others

1040
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: used or or reasons that they didn't want to join? Honestly,

1041
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 1: the biggest roadblock, and I feel like I'm going to

1042
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 1: say this a lot, but the biggest roadblock has been

1043
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: someone that's not a local guy trying to start the

1044
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 1: co op by himself. That's the biggest roadblock. The other

1045
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,919
Speaker 1: one is highly opinionated people. Um, but they were able

1046
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,720
Speaker 1: to reconcile and bring that back and you know, drop

1047
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: their tone a little bit and get some more I

1048
00:53:45,000 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: don't know, friendly smiley faces that come along until they

1049
00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,120
Speaker 1: learned how to mediate their goals a little bit better

1050
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: because you know, like you said, it's really easy to

1051
00:53:53,040 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: be really abstinent that this is what the goal was,

1052
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,799
Speaker 1: is what we agreed to. Why aren't you sticking to it? Um?

1053
00:53:58,840 --> 00:54:00,400
Speaker 1: So you need to have some people if that's your

1054
00:54:00,400 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: personality temperament type, it's important to have someone that's a

1055
00:54:03,280 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: little bit more friendly and lacks of days ago to

1056
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,319
Speaker 1: go along with the ride and keep people happy and

1057
00:54:08,360 --> 00:54:12,240
Speaker 1: excited about what you're trying to do. Yeah, what about

1058
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: what about kids? You know, when I when I talk,

1059
00:54:14,840 --> 00:54:17,440
Speaker 1: we hear a lot of people talking about quality dear management,

1060
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 1: and you know, for property or for co op, lots

1061
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:22,080
Speaker 1: of times we'll set some type you know, there'll be

1062
00:54:22,120 --> 00:54:24,080
Speaker 1: some type of standard. You know, we're gonna try to

1063
00:54:24,480 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: harvest the appropriate number of those for the habitat and

1064
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,879
Speaker 1: for the population, and we're gonna hold out for three

1065
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: and half year old bucks or four and half year

1066
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: old bucks or something like that. But then you get

1067
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,280
Speaker 1: the the wild card of what about if there's a

1068
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 1: child who hasn't killed it ere yet, or what if

1069
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: there is a new hunter, how do you recommend handling

1070
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 1: that should you should they be able to shoot whatever

1071
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,560
Speaker 1: they want or how have you seen that handle? Almost

1072
00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,680
Speaker 1: all cops will say, you know, if it's your first year,

1073
00:54:49,239 --> 00:54:51,560
Speaker 1: any any first years of trophy, you know it's a

1074
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:55,200
Speaker 1: big deal. So most of them will put aside the

1075
00:54:55,239 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: guidelines for youth, first time hunters and four seniors. Okay,

1076
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 1: I like it. Then I guess where, um, where my

1077
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:08,080
Speaker 1: mind leaves me next? And we we've talked about how

1078
00:55:08,120 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 1: to start a co op. We've talked about, you know,

1079
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:12,319
Speaker 1: how to handle some of the different roadblocks you might have,

1080
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: some of the different challenges. Is there any or I

1081
00:55:17,960 --> 00:55:19,960
Speaker 1: mean maybe from your experience right you've been you've been

1082
00:55:20,000 --> 00:55:22,600
Speaker 1: doing this now working with co ops here in Michigan.

1083
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:25,759
Speaker 1: Are there any examples you've seen, you know, personally, of

1084
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: you know, the power of a cop. I mean, we've

1085
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:31,560
Speaker 1: talked about, sure, there's there's tangible benefits where we've seen

1086
00:55:31,719 --> 00:55:34,880
Speaker 1: increased satisfaction. But can you share this story? Do you

1087
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:36,920
Speaker 1: have any stories that come to mind of a specific

1088
00:55:37,040 --> 00:55:39,600
Speaker 1: instance of a co op where they've seen this, you know,

1089
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 1: transform their hunting or their satisfaction. Have you actually had

1090
00:55:42,719 --> 00:55:47,799
Speaker 1: any personal stories like that that have come to life yet? Well? So,

1091
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:50,560
Speaker 1: I mean I think that like my research in general

1092
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 1: shows on the satisfaction increase UM. And I mean I've

1093
00:55:54,239 --> 00:55:56,799
Speaker 1: had tons and tons of conversations every single co op

1094
00:55:56,840 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 1: that I studied, I had at least most of them

1095
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,160
Speaker 1: are about a two hour long interview with every co

1096
00:56:01,239 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 1: op leadership. So whoever the leaders were that co op,

1097
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,919
Speaker 1: I sat down and talked to them for a long time.

1098
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: And even now we had some co op workshops down

1099
00:56:10,960 --> 00:56:12,879
Speaker 1: the state where we had some co op leaders come

1100
00:56:12,920 --> 00:56:16,200
Speaker 1: and share about the challenges and successes of their co ops,

1101
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,160
Speaker 1: and time and time again to hear about the relationship.

1102
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:21,400
Speaker 1: So I think my favorite story have been telling so

1103
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: far is one of the co op leaders started his

1104
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,360
Speaker 1: co op and had that neighbor that he didn't like,

1105
00:56:26,440 --> 00:56:30,360
Speaker 1: didn't get along. Um, they were definitely not friends, and

1106
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,680
Speaker 1: because of the co ops starting, they started talking and

1107
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,320
Speaker 1: getting to actually know each other, putting their differences aside

1108
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:39,280
Speaker 1: a little bit, and now they're really good friends. They

1109
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,960
Speaker 1: hunt out of state together. So you go from being

1110
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,040
Speaker 1: neighbors that can't even talk to each other because they

1111
00:56:45,080 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: just don't like each other, and now they put the

1112
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,520
Speaker 1: investment in hunting out of state together. And that's just

1113
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: one example I think that really models the potential for

1114
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:57,240
Speaker 1: relational development and conversation and communication that can take place

1115
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:01,919
Speaker 1: to just change the dynamics of relationships. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

1116
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: It's funny. As you mentioned that, it makes me think

1117
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:06,239
Speaker 1: of a story that we had um one of our

1118
00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: other podcast guests a couple of weeks weeks ago, Jim

1119
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,040
Speaker 1: Browker had mentioned in his situation where he was hunting,

1120
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: he started talking to his neighbor and he Jim was

1121
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,480
Speaker 1: the guy who was shooting every deer that went on

1122
00:57:18,520 --> 00:57:21,600
Speaker 1: their property. And his neighbor got really depressed because he

1123
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: knew that Jim and the other people hunt his property

1124
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 1: would shoot everything and he would never be able to

1125
00:57:25,840 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: get any bucks to get older. And so he actually

1126
00:57:27,560 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: thought about moving because of that. But he ended up,

1127
00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:32,360
Speaker 1: you know, just like you said, they ended up developing

1128
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: relationship and this guy helped educate Jim about the powers

1129
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:38,120
Speaker 1: of you know, of what you can do through managing deer.

1130
00:57:38,440 --> 00:57:40,800
Speaker 1: And I'll look at you know, Jim Browker now is

1131
00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:46,439
Speaker 1: a super serious white tail hunter manager habitat savant um.

1132
00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:48,120
Speaker 1: And you know, if it hadn't been for someone being

1133
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:50,520
Speaker 1: willing to start that relationship and being open to it,

1134
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: even though this guy was shooting deer he wasn't happy about.

1135
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: You know, look at where it's taking them now, So

1136
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: it's cool to see that. Yeah. Well, and even beyond that,

1137
00:57:58,920 --> 00:58:01,520
Speaker 1: I mean, he came to one of my workshops and

1138
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: presented and talked about his co op experience, and he

1139
00:58:05,720 --> 00:58:08,800
Speaker 1: had I would say, almost like a spiritual shift in

1140
00:58:08,880 --> 00:58:11,760
Speaker 1: a sense because he had, you know, jumped onto the

1141
00:58:11,760 --> 00:58:14,200
Speaker 1: whole quality dear management thing. He had been talking about

1142
00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:15,800
Speaker 1: co op for a really long time. One of the

1143
00:58:15,880 --> 00:58:18,400
Speaker 1: leaders of it um he hasn't saying a co op,

1144
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: but something happened last fall that completely changed his belief

1145
00:58:24,080 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 1: and full understanding on what a co op means and

1146
00:58:29,520 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 1: the sacrifice that it entails. So him and two other

1147
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:35,160
Speaker 1: guys on in their co op there and they all,

1148
00:58:35,480 --> 00:58:37,800
Speaker 1: I mean they have fairly small acres, so we're just talking.

1149
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: I think they all have forty to seventy acres apiece,

1150
00:58:41,120 --> 00:58:43,400
Speaker 1: so not much property there. And all three of them

1151
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 1: got a huge buck on the same day in the

1152
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:52,880
Speaker 1: same area. And he had this big realization that in

1153
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:56,360
Speaker 1: order for your neighbor like, in order for there to

1154
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,600
Speaker 1: be true benefit to the co op, that has to

1155
00:58:58,640 --> 00:59:03,320
Speaker 1: be pretty significant sacrifice by individuals and they started realizing

1156
00:59:03,360 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 1: that when they harvested these animals, it was a joint effort,

1157
00:59:05,960 --> 00:59:07,960
Speaker 1: so it wasn't just his harvest, it was a co

1158
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,200
Speaker 1: op harvest. And I'm trying to look at my note

1159
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:13,200
Speaker 1: here to find exactly what he said, because it was

1160
00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:15,840
Speaker 1: I mean, it was a huge shift for him. But

1161
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,600
Speaker 1: the best way to grow trust is to allow your

1162
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,520
Speaker 1: neighbor to take the ten point inst to yourself is

1163
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:22,240
Speaker 1: kind of where he was getting at. And that's a

1164
00:59:22,240 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 1: big deal of Michigan to pass up on a ten

1165
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: point I mean, you don't see that very often, but

1166
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 1: in order for the success of the co op and

1167
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,560
Speaker 1: to be able to see more mature deer, that means

1168
00:59:31,560 --> 00:59:33,480
Speaker 1: that sometimes you, as a co op leader or a

1169
00:59:33,480 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: co op member, have to be willing to pass up

1170
00:59:35,960 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: on this significant harvest so that your neighbor will take

1171
00:59:40,160 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: him and buy into the idea that we can really

1172
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: have an amazing dear hurt on our properties if we

1173
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:51,040
Speaker 1: just take the time they to pass up and we're patient,

1174
00:59:51,120 --> 00:59:54,439
Speaker 1: we wait to see what comes by. Yeah, that's pretty cool.

1175
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,880
Speaker 1: It's cool to see people working as a larger group

1176
00:59:58,280 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 1: to improve the situation as a whole ole, and like

1177
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,120
Speaker 1: you said sometimes that takes some sacrifice, and lots of times,

1178
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,160
Speaker 1: you know, me and Dan talked about this all the time. Um,

1179
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: you know, whether it be in regards to dear politics

1180
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: or dear management or whatever it might be, sometimes you

1181
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:14,920
Speaker 1: have to sacrifice to to see the greater good. And

1182
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: I think that's a perfect example of it. So it's

1183
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: cool to see what Jim and Jake and I think there.

1184
01:00:19,880 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 1: I can't remember their other friend's name was, but they

1185
01:00:21,680 --> 01:00:25,000
Speaker 1: had some awesome success last year in that area. And uh,

1186
01:00:25,320 --> 01:00:27,640
Speaker 1: I'm sure there's lots of other co ops in Michigan

1187
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,360
Speaker 1: and all across the country where they're seeing a similar results.

1188
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:34,200
Speaker 1: So I don't know. I feel like this is we've

1189
01:00:34,240 --> 01:00:36,080
Speaker 1: got a hard stop coming up. So I've got a

1190
01:00:36,080 --> 01:00:38,920
Speaker 1: pretty solid idea now of what's going on with co

1191
01:00:39,040 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: ops and how we can become involved in them. But Dan,

1192
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:45,040
Speaker 1: do you have any final questions for Anna before we

1193
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:49,400
Speaker 1: wrap this up? No? Um, not really. I just I'm

1194
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:54,200
Speaker 1: glad we actually talked about this topic because it's I

1195
01:00:54,240 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: think it's It's the main point is you have to

1196
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: sacrifice if you want something to to improve. You may

1197
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: have to eat a tag some year, or you know,

1198
01:01:04,400 --> 01:01:08,960
Speaker 1: let your neighbor be successful multiple years in a row, um,

1199
01:01:09,000 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: to to allow you to get where you need to be.

1200
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:14,919
Speaker 1: And I think that's something that a lot of people

1201
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:17,800
Speaker 1: just aren't willing to do, and that might be one

1202
01:01:17,840 --> 01:01:22,200
Speaker 1: of the biggest roadblocks. So yeah, I guess I got

1203
01:01:22,320 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: one final question for you, a UM, given you know

1204
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,720
Speaker 1: what Dan's mentioned here about some of his neighbors. UM,

1205
01:01:29,760 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 1: I know you are the co op coordinator for Michigan,

1206
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 1: but can we get you on a kind of side

1207
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:37,640
Speaker 1: project to just work on a co op in Iowa

1208
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 1: with Dan to help him out over there. I am

1209
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:44,640
Speaker 1: willing to have conversations with anybody. I mean, I've tacked

1210
01:01:44,680 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 1: to people in several other states that want to start

1211
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:49,200
Speaker 1: something up. So you know, if you want me to

1212
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: fly out, you're gonna have to pay for my ticket.

1213
01:01:51,480 --> 01:01:53,920
Speaker 1: I am more than willing to have conversations with anybody,

1214
01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 1: and hopefully it doesn't get too crazy. But I'm here

1215
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,919
Speaker 1: as a resource. I mean, I think I I full

1216
01:02:00,040 --> 01:02:02,000
Speaker 1: believe in co ops and I think that there's a

1217
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 1: shift in what hunting is gonna look like and I

1218
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:07,000
Speaker 1: think co ops are part of that shift. Um. So

1219
01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:09,280
Speaker 1: I'm I'm a big fan big proponent. I'm willing to

1220
01:02:09,280 --> 01:02:12,280
Speaker 1: have conversations with people about it and the answer questions.

1221
01:02:12,920 --> 01:02:17,240
Speaker 1: I think that's that's awesome. And I I look out

1222
01:02:17,240 --> 01:02:18,800
Speaker 1: for a phone call from Dan. You never know what

1223
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 1: you might get from him. But we'll just put it

1224
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:23,880
Speaker 1: and I will put your flight on the wire to

1225
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:29,200
Speaker 1: hunt tab and oh yeah, that credit card payment might

1226
01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:33,240
Speaker 1: get declined. I worry, but there's not a whole lot

1227
01:02:33,240 --> 01:02:35,920
Speaker 1: in that budget. But UM, this has been awesome and

1228
01:02:35,960 --> 01:02:38,320
Speaker 1: I'm glad we will have this conversation. And like you said,

1229
01:02:38,360 --> 01:02:40,640
Speaker 1: I think it's something that you know is going to

1230
01:02:40,640 --> 01:02:42,919
Speaker 1: be a big shift or part of the larger shift

1231
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: in deer hunting is more and more people want to

1232
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: achieve these kinds of goals, but they find that they

1233
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:49,760
Speaker 1: can't do it by themselves on their back twenty or forty.

1234
01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:53,120
Speaker 1: So there's that need to start working with your neighbors.

1235
01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:55,560
Speaker 1: And I think it's a great thing. So I'm really fortunate.

1236
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,680
Speaker 1: I'm really encouraged by the fact that you know there's

1237
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,720
Speaker 1: a role and there's a per and like you doing

1238
01:03:00,720 --> 01:03:02,720
Speaker 1: this in Michigan, and I hope this is something that

1239
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:06,200
Speaker 1: pops up in other states. To UM. My final question

1240
01:03:06,200 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 1: for you then, and it is for people out there

1241
01:03:07,800 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 1: that that are interested in this, maybe both in Michigan

1242
01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,680
Speaker 1: and then maybe just outside of Michigan. Are there any

1243
01:03:13,760 --> 01:03:17,320
Speaker 1: recommended resources where can someone go online to get more

1244
01:03:17,400 --> 01:03:20,040
Speaker 1: information about what you're doing or just about co ops

1245
01:03:20,080 --> 01:03:23,840
Speaker 1: in general. Yeah, well, one good place is we have

1246
01:03:24,000 --> 01:03:26,080
Speaker 1: deer Michigan dot com and I have a blog and

1247
01:03:26,120 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: I post a lot of stuff on there pertaining the

1248
01:03:28,480 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 1: co ops. UM. The other resource, and again I am

1249
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: not saying this is because they pay part of my tab,

1250
01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: but q d M a has hands down phenomenal resources

1251
01:03:39,040 --> 01:03:41,880
Speaker 1: for co ops. UM. They have a developing successful q

1252
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:45,200
Speaker 1: d M Cooperatives book that is just full of really

1253
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:48,600
Speaker 1: great ideas and insights um quality. White Tails has more

1254
01:03:48,600 --> 01:03:51,520
Speaker 1: and more articles every issue on cooperatives or at least

1255
01:03:51,520 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 1: two just this last issue um so between most two spots.

1256
01:03:56,160 --> 01:03:59,640
Speaker 1: And then anycc dot org has my my full blog

1257
01:03:59,720 --> 01:04:03,200
Speaker 1: that as tips and ideas and talks about my adventures

1258
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:04,920
Speaker 1: around the state and while other co ops are doing

1259
01:04:04,960 --> 01:04:08,480
Speaker 1: as well. Very cool. Well, we'll link to all that

1260
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: stuff in the show notes for this blog, which should

1261
01:04:11,280 --> 01:04:15,000
Speaker 1: be at Wired to Hunt dot com slash episode fifty six.

1262
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:18,280
Speaker 1: I think so we'll link to all that stuff and Anna,

1263
01:04:18,600 --> 01:04:21,720
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today. Oh, thank

1264
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:24,880
Speaker 1: you for having me and it's fun. Absolutely well. Good

1265
01:04:24,960 --> 01:04:27,360
Speaker 1: luck with the rest of your work this spring and summer,

1266
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,000
Speaker 1: and hopefully you'll be able to get out and do

1267
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:31,880
Speaker 1: some hunting this fall too, and we'll hear about those stories.

1268
01:04:32,840 --> 01:04:38,280
Speaker 1: I'm good, all right, have a good Manna too. All right, Well,

1269
01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: that is going to be at for us today. And

1270
01:04:41,120 --> 01:04:43,960
Speaker 1: as always, we'd like to thank our partners who helped

1271
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:46,880
Speaker 1: make the Wired to Hunt podcast possible. So big thank

1272
01:04:46,920 --> 01:04:51,200
Speaker 1: you too, Sick of Gear, Trophy, Ridge Bear Archery, Red Knick, Blinds, Hunt,

1273
01:04:51,240 --> 01:04:55,640
Speaker 1: Terra Maps, Ozonics, Carbon Express, Lacrosse Boots, and the White

1274
01:04:55,640 --> 01:04:58,880
Speaker 1: Tail Institute of North America. And just a few more

1275
01:04:58,880 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 1: things before we wrap things up. If you've been enjoying

1276
01:05:00,880 --> 01:05:03,280
Speaker 1: the podcast, you know, as we always ask, it would

1277
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 1: be incredible if you could leave us a rating or

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01:05:05,240 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 1: review on iTunes. Thank you in advance if you do that.

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01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: And also if you're not subscribed to the podcast yet

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01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:14,000
Speaker 1: on your mobile device, I'd highly recommend you do that.

1281
01:05:14,440 --> 01:05:16,960
Speaker 1: It's a lot easier than listening on the website, So

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01:05:17,080 --> 01:05:20,040
Speaker 1: if you use an Android device, I'd recommend downloading the

1283
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:23,280
Speaker 1: Stitcher app that's s T I T C H e

1284
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,200
Speaker 1: R Stitcher and if you use an Apple device, just

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01:05:26,360 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: use the podcast app. Those things will make it a

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01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,560
Speaker 1: lot easier to get the episode download automatically to your

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01:05:31,560 --> 01:05:34,040
Speaker 1: phone and you won't need to go to the website

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01:05:34,040 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: and listen to it, and then you don't have issues there,

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01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: So check that out. And then finally, thank you for

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01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:42,680
Speaker 1: joining us today. If you're looking to improve the deer

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01:05:42,680 --> 01:05:45,760
Speaker 1: herds and hunting in your area, I hope this episode

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01:05:45,760 --> 01:05:48,240
Speaker 1: helped brings some new ideas to mind for you. And

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01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: with all that said, have a great week, go enjoy

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01:05:51,920 --> 01:06:00,959
Speaker 1: that spring sunshine and stay wired to hunt. That can't

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01:06:00,960 --> 01:06:01,240
Speaker 1: be that