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Speaker 1: Hey everyone, it's Carvel and before we get into this episode,
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a favor. Throughout this series,
Speaker 1: we've talked a lot about how Fred Rogers has helped
Speaker 1: show us how to make the world a kinder place,
Speaker 1: a better place. But now we want to hear from you.
Speaker 1: We want to hear a story about when someone in
Speaker 1: your life showed you what it means to be a helper.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's someone in your family, or someone in your community,
Speaker 1: or someone that you haven't seen since you were a kid,
Speaker 1: but that you still think about something they did to
Speaker 1: help you. Whoever they are, wherever they are, however they're helping,
Speaker 1: we want to hear about it. So give us a
Speaker 1: call at three three six five one five zero five
Speaker 1: to nine. Again, that's three three six five one five
Speaker 1: zero five to nine, and tell us a story about
Speaker 1: someone who has shown you how to be a helper
Speaker 1: and we might just play it on an upcoming episode. Again,
Speaker 1: that number is three three six five one five zero
Speaker 1: five two nine, Or you can tweet your story with
Speaker 1: the hashtag finding Fred. Okay, now let's start the show
Speaker 1: with a Nasha Studio. That sounds studio. Well, that's very
Speaker 1: much like the place we make our television visits. It's
Speaker 1: and Mr Rogers is in Moscow. Here would you like
Speaker 1: to play? Of course I would. I'd love to touch
Speaker 1: a piano wherever I go by. The Soviet Union has
Speaker 1: just begun opening up dialogue with the US, and that
Speaker 1: somehow landed Mr Rogers on the set of good Night,
Speaker 1: Little Ones, the USSRS longest running children's pro graham. Back then,
Speaker 1: there was no television except for one channel that was
Speaker 1: played in Russian, which I could understand mostly the news propaganda,
Speaker 1: and then there was a childhood program that played at
Speaker 1: night that I also couldn't understand. Kristof Putzel was an
Speaker 1: American kid living in Moscow at the time. Both my
Speaker 1: parents were journalists. They were assigned to cover what ended
Speaker 1: up being the collapse of the Soviet Union. My parents
Speaker 1: job was to make sense of a place that didn't
Speaker 1: make a lot of sense, where information was controlled. Kristof's
Speaker 1: father was the bureau chief for the Associated Press. His
Speaker 1: mother was the deputy bureau chief for Time magazine. They
Speaker 1: moved to Moscow in and took seven year old Kristof
Speaker 1: and his sister along with them. My parents had told
Speaker 1: me that the biggest toy store in the entire Soviet
Speaker 1: Union was across the street from our house. This was
Speaker 1: the way they tempted me to go there and agreeeded
Speaker 1: this whole thing as a seven year old. And let
Speaker 1: me tell you, it's the first time ever gone to
Speaker 1: a toy store anyway. It's nothing I wanted to buy,
Speaker 1: because there was nothing on the shelves. Um. There was
Speaker 1: I think shoes, some clothes, and a couple of tin
Speaker 1: toy things and some really complicated models that I think
Speaker 1: we're for adults. And that was it. This is the
Speaker 1: biggest toy store seven It's nothing I wanted. I'm Carlo
Speaker 1: Wallace and this is Finding Fred, a podcast about Fred
Speaker 1: Rogers from I Heart Media and Fatherly in partnership with
Speaker 1: Transmitter Media. We often talk about how adaptable kids are,
Speaker 1: but Kristoff says, the move to Moscow was really hard. Frankly,
Speaker 1: I was pretty depressed. Um, you just have to understand
Speaker 1: just how hard Russia was in the eighties, especially for
Speaker 1: a kid, you know, at being so cold, dark, no
Speaker 1: access to stuff. Um. Sometimes friends would record like tapes
Speaker 1: that cassette tapes and then mail them and I would
Speaker 1: listen to their voices. We didn't live in an embassy.
Speaker 1: We lived in a square foot apartment my mom, my dad,
Speaker 1: and my sister, myself and our Golden retriever, only golden
Speaker 1: retriever in the entire civic Union. People thought that it
Speaker 1: was a lion. Our apartment was bugged because the KGB
Speaker 1: always kept a close eye on them, and they would
Speaker 1: follow us anytime we were going outside of the city.
Speaker 1: They would constantly try to attempt to set up my
Speaker 1: parents to see if they were actually spies, and always
Speaker 1: monitored whatever stories they're working on. There was always somebody
Speaker 1: watching and nothing to watch on TV, no familiar cultural
Speaker 1: touchstones like Sesame Street or three to one contact. So
Speaker 1: I would watch the same VHS tapes over and over
Speaker 1: and over again that people would mail from the US.
Speaker 1: They would just tape whatever was on TV and mail it.
Speaker 1: We'd get it three, four or five months later, if
Speaker 1: we got it at all. And those were like gold
Speaker 1: I like you, Yes, I do, I like you. And
Speaker 1: on a few of those precious VHS tapes were old
Speaker 1: episodes of Mr. Rogers Neighborhood. Certainly do I'm glad you
Speaker 1: were with me on my swing. So Mr Rogers in
Speaker 1: Moscow was big news, and Christoph's parents managed to get
Speaker 1: word to Fred telling him about their depressed kid. And
Speaker 1: for Fred Rogers, a note about a sad child was
Speaker 1: like the bat signal. There was one day when my
Speaker 1: parents told me to make sure I was home for dinner,
Speaker 1: which I always was, but I remember being weird. They're like,
Speaker 1: now there's a special dinner tonight. I just remember a
Speaker 1: knock on the door and I'd sort of gotten used
Speaker 1: to being let owned by surprises of them trying to
Speaker 1: like cheer us up in communist Moscow, you know. And
Speaker 1: I opened the door and there's Mr Rodgers in his
Speaker 1: card again and the blue shoes, and my jaw apparently
Speaker 1: just dropped. I remember just being awe struck. I didn't
Speaker 1: understand why Mr Rogers was at my door. I grew
Speaker 1: up watching Mr Rogers. I knew every character, I knew
Speaker 1: I'd probably had seen every episode at least for that
Speaker 1: time frame. Um, And so there I was, and he
Speaker 1: walks in the door, and he gets down to my
Speaker 1: eye level and shakes my hand and introduces himself as
Speaker 1: Fred Rogers and asked what my name was, and I
Speaker 1: don't even know if I could get the words out
Speaker 1: of my mouth because Mr Rodgers in the apartment, and um,
Speaker 1: it was just him on his own and just by himself.
Speaker 1: I think it was the first time in my life
Speaker 1: where I felt seen by an adult, like when he
Speaker 1: got down to my eye level, introduced himself and looked
Speaker 1: me in the eye. Of course, I've had adults introduced
Speaker 1: themselves to me a million times up to that point
Speaker 1: and asked me what my name was, But the way
Speaker 1: that he looked at me, I felt like you saw me.
Speaker 1: Then he came into the living room and we sat
Speaker 1: down and he opened up his suitcase. He had a
Speaker 1: suitcase with him. I feel like it was a briefcase,
Speaker 1: but it must have been bigger than that. Um. And
Speaker 1: he opens it up and they're all the puppets. I
Speaker 1: had never put together that Mr Rodgers did the voices.
Speaker 1: I didn't, And so suddenly they were talking and I
Speaker 1: had King Friday and um and actually owl in my
Speaker 1: on my couch. This is a real moment for a child,
Speaker 1: you know. And UM, I think what just really struck
Speaker 1: me about it was how normal it felt. I mean,
Speaker 1: not normal. What's the word. Um, it's while it felt surreal,
Speaker 1: it felt like I was in I was in the
Speaker 1: land of make believe. Suddenly my couch suddenly turned into
Speaker 1: that in my apartment, and um, it was just like
Speaker 1: the show. I mean, he was wearing the same stuff.
Speaker 1: This isn't a like since it set. It wasn't like
Speaker 1: backstage he was. He had the cardigan on and the
Speaker 1: blue shoes. Like I mean, first of all, I'm just
Speaker 1: really struck by the kind of person you have to be,
Speaker 1: the kind of self possession you have to have to
Speaker 1: just walk into some strangers houses and spend the evening
Speaker 1: with them, like we don't, Like, we don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't know how to do that. I'm like, like, ostensibly
Speaker 1: my job is to be charismatic in public, and I
Speaker 1: still don't. I don't know if I would know how
Speaker 1: to just go into someone's house with nothing but myself
Speaker 1: and his suitcase of puppets to spend the evening with
Speaker 1: them and their family. I have kids, and oftentimes I
Speaker 1: think about the ways in which illusions are created for
Speaker 1: them and also shattered for them. And so it's a
Speaker 1: tailor as old as time that like the kid has
Speaker 1: someone that they they have idolized, and television. Then they
Speaker 1: meet them and then the person is not who they
Speaker 1: thought they were and they're crushed. And you had the
Speaker 1: opposite experience. You you sort of thought this guy was fine,
Speaker 1: and then you meet him and you find out that
Speaker 1: he's exactly who as good as he says he is.
Speaker 1: But I wonder if you ever felt let down. Later.
Speaker 1: Mom one time took me to the set of Sesame
Speaker 1: Street because she was working on a story for Time magazine.
Speaker 1: And I went and I was horrified because Big Bird
Speaker 1: was walking around without the top, you know, just the legs,
Speaker 1: and the muppets were all like, you know, like lying
Speaker 1: there like corpses, and and they'd warned my mom, they said,
Speaker 1: you know, credit, they said, we don't usually encourage children
Speaker 1: to come here. And it was a little jarring. Um,
Speaker 1: But that wasn't the case with Mr Rodgers. More from
Speaker 1: Christoph in just a moment. Teething can be a real
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Speaker 1: otter dot Ai. Mr Rogers visit has stuck with Christoph.
Speaker 1: It's not just that Mr Rogers got down on one
Speaker 1: knee and looked him in the eye, or that he
Speaker 1: got to play with King Friday and X the Owl
Speaker 1: it's the kindness of Mr Rogers, the effort Fred made
Speaker 1: in the midst of a busy trip to help a kid,
Speaker 1: like I mean, just think about this for a second.
Speaker 1: He went all the way across town in a city
Speaker 1: he didn't know, which is a hard place to get around,
Speaker 1: to meet a family that he didn't know, just because
Speaker 1: he heard that there were some kids that were kind
Speaker 1: of having a tough time. So why do you think
Speaker 1: he did that. It's a really good question. I think
Speaker 1: that he heard that there were some kids that grew
Speaker 1: up watching the show and we're having I think a
Speaker 1: tough time. There wasn't a whole lot of stuff to
Speaker 1: look forward to, and then it would be amazing if
Speaker 1: he would meet them, And he apparently just jumped at
Speaker 1: the opportunity. And so of course, you know, um, you
Speaker 1: can imagine a number of people that might want to
Speaker 1: meet Fred Rodgers or I don't know, maybe no one
Speaker 1: asked him. Yeah, he just came and did it, and
Speaker 1: he spent real time. He like sat on the couch
Speaker 1: and did a whole puppet show and I played with them,
Speaker 1: like I got the hold. I mean that was crazy.
Speaker 1: I mean I got to old the King and the
Speaker 1: owl and the cat and like like uh. And then
Speaker 1: he had dinner with us, and then we drove him
Speaker 1: back to the American Embassy where he was staying, and
Speaker 1: so I sat in the back seat of our station wagon.
Speaker 1: It was one of the only subarus in the entire
Speaker 1: Soviet Union. And we sat in the backseat and I
Speaker 1: just sat there with Mr Rogers as we drove him
Speaker 1: across town and drove him to the front of marrin Ambazy. Oh.
Speaker 1: And he was asking questions because he didn't know anything
Speaker 1: about Moscow. So when we're driving, he was asking questions
Speaker 1: about what's this, what's this? I knew the answers like.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, that's um you know, that's the
Speaker 1: monument to your your gagar And he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Or do you like space? I was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I like space. I remember just wanting, like always fantasizing
Speaker 1: about friends coming so I could tell them about what
Speaker 1: this place was like. And I'd be like, I know
Speaker 1: this looks weird, but look at this. This is you know, look, yes,
Speaker 1: it's normal to see like an entire army going down
Speaker 1: the street, you know, like, oh yeah, we see tanks
Speaker 1: all the time. Oh yeah, they parade these missiles around constantly,
Speaker 1: like I know it looks now, but that's what life
Speaker 1: is here. And it never happened because no one ever
Speaker 1: came to visit. And I got to give that towards
Speaker 1: Mr Rodgers. He must have known that just by him
Speaker 1: being there this was had suddenly transformed Moscow, a place
Speaker 1: that I hated as a child, into the most magical
Speaker 1: place I've ever been. And then got to ride to
Speaker 1: Moscow with Mr Rogers and point out all this stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, I still look back at that, it's like
Speaker 1: it was just magical when I was a kid. As
Speaker 1: odd as it sounds, I did the exact same thing
Speaker 1: I imagined Ricky Ricardo for some reason, time traveling from
Speaker 1: the nineteen fifties to my childhood in the eighties and
Speaker 1: letting me explain everything to him Walkman and pac Man
Speaker 1: and Prince. I think now that that was a cure
Speaker 1: for a kind of loneliness that I felt. That Kristoff
Speaker 1: felt that maybe a lot of kids feel this world
Speaker 1: is so big and so many things are happening to
Speaker 1: us all the time, and we feel sometimes like we're
Speaker 1: little helpless creatures in the midst of all of it.
Speaker 1: So maybe it's just really nice to think that there's
Speaker 1: someone somewhere who cares what you like, specifically you are
Speaker 1: seeing and experiencing. That's the gift that Fred Rogers gave
Speaker 1: to christof that night, and maybe that's the gift he
Speaker 1: gave to all of us. You know. I have this really,
Speaker 1: this weird question that's been on my mind. I was thinking,
Speaker 1: I think a lot about good people and what makes
Speaker 1: a good person, and so much of what Fred Rogers
Speaker 1: was about was about ways and systems and methods for
Speaker 1: being a good person, and I I keep returning to
Speaker 1: Wise and everyone like that. I want to ask you, first,
Speaker 1: do you think of yourself as a good person? I do,
Speaker 1: but I think it's taken a lot of time and
Speaker 1: struggle and experiences with not always being the best person,
Speaker 1: interactions with not always the best people, but then also
Speaker 1: the experience of having genuine connection, uh and experiences with
Speaker 1: people that consider really good and I think that has
Speaker 1: helped me become a better person and someone I'm still
Speaker 1: trying to be um because I guess I wonder, I mean,
Speaker 1: I I have this obvious question, which is why isn't
Speaker 1: everyone like Fred Rogers? Like? Why? Why like I assume
Speaker 1: that you don't think of yourself as being capable of
Speaker 1: being what he was or doing what he does not
Speaker 1: I guess I want to know what you feel like
Speaker 1: in your own life stands in your way. It's a
Speaker 1: really good question. I don't know, you know, like why
Speaker 1: I think that I just might not have the patience
Speaker 1: that he had for people? You know, I think just
Speaker 1: the um at least not always, you know. I think
Speaker 1: I have my moments, and I've certainly been inspired by
Speaker 1: him and this memory, and I love what I do
Speaker 1: for a living. But for someone to be like that
Speaker 1: all the time, to have everyone who's ever had an
Speaker 1: interaction with you to just feel seen and heard while
Speaker 1: also like embraced and almost hugged in a way, even
Speaker 1: if he wasn't doing that physically, I doubt that the
Speaker 1: people in my life would say that I'm like that,
Speaker 1: you know, um uh, But what gets in my way?
Speaker 1: You know? I guess that I think, um, probably cynicism,
Speaker 1: you know. I think I've struggled a lot with this
Speaker 1: question of like what is like just unconditional love and
Speaker 1: how do you practice that even with everybody? Yeah, So
Speaker 1: I'm working on a podcast right now about my relationship
Speaker 1: with one of the world's most wanted terrorists. And I
Speaker 1: had a connection with this guy who was wanted by
Speaker 1: you know, everyone in the world pretty much, the CIA,
Speaker 1: the State's Department, the FBI, the African Union. He had
Speaker 1: a five million do I bound you on his head
Speaker 1: and I was the only one I knew where he was.
Speaker 1: And he would call me in the middle of the
Speaker 1: night just to chat because he just wanted to connect
Speaker 1: with another human being towards the end, and while he
Speaker 1: was hoping I could help keep him alive. When I
Speaker 1: couldn't do that, we would just talk and it started
Speaker 1: just a great scoop for me. But then came this
Speaker 1: person that I couldn't help but start caring about. And
Speaker 1: that gets really confusing, you know, especially when it's somebody
Speaker 1: that has done terrible things, you know, or supposedly done
Speaker 1: terrible things, or that's supposed to be an enemy, or
Speaker 1: somebody that you hate, or somebody that deserves to be killed. UM.
Speaker 1: And I find all human beings, um people, Everyone you
Speaker 1: know is worthy of being listened to and being and
Speaker 1: spoken to. It doesn't mean taking all their b s.
Speaker 1: It doesn't mean, like you know, set yourself up to
Speaker 1: be abused or or or taken advantage of. UM. But
Speaker 1: I think everyone, all any of us just want us
Speaker 1: to be loved and to be heard and to be
Speaker 1: seen and UM. And I think that your presence is
Speaker 1: the greatest gift you can give somebody. I just think
Speaker 1: that's what I believe. It's just actually learning how to
Speaker 1: be genuinely present, Like in that moment that he came
Speaker 1: down and sat and just like looked me in the eye,
Speaker 1: asked me a genuine question and then just don't feel
Speaker 1: like he felt he needed to be anywhere else. That's presence.
Speaker 1: And I feel like when you can give that to
Speaker 1: another human, that's the best gift you can give somebody.
Speaker 1: And I think what keeps us, and right a second,
Speaker 1: speak myself, what keeps us from doing that is it's
Speaker 1: just really hard to be present, you know. I think
Speaker 1: that we our minds are scattered with our wants of
Speaker 1: what we think we want, what our desires are, with
Speaker 1: the ways that we think we're going to get it,
Speaker 1: our relationship to the world, how we think the world
Speaker 1: perceives us. UM. We care a lot about a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff that usually isn't relevant. And I think that's
Speaker 1: what gets in the way I want to. I want
Speaker 1: to ask you, um about the world as it currently stands.
Speaker 1: And like the last thing he did on television was
Speaker 1: a public service announcement after nine eleven m that was
Speaker 1: the last time we saw him on TV. Uh and
Speaker 1: he died soon after that. And when I watched that footage,
Speaker 1: I often feel like I'm watching a person who has
Speaker 1: ultimately been outmatched by just the huge well of capacity
Speaker 1: of for badness among people. And when I look at
Speaker 1: the world today, it does seem like so much of
Speaker 1: that badness has like gained energy and momentum and focus
Speaker 1: and force and push. And I wonder, your journalist, your
Speaker 1: job is to investigate all, to investigate the human condition
Speaker 1: via our individual stories and the stories we pursue. And
Speaker 1: I wonder, how do I even frame this question? Do
Speaker 1: you think A? Do you think his impact can be felt?
Speaker 1: And B do you think it's enough? God dense questions? Um,
Speaker 1: I think that it's up to us. Two. I think
Speaker 1: it's up to us to allow his impact to be felt.
Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is, look, eventually, we
Speaker 1: can't be relying on Fred Rogers, especially after he's dead.
Speaker 1: We have to be Fred Rodgers. I mean, we're grown up,
Speaker 1: you know, like I'm about to be forty. I was
Speaker 1: watching Mr Rogers a kid. It's time for me to
Speaker 1: be Mr Rogers, you know, it's time for all of us,
Speaker 1: me Mr Rogers, especially now. It is crazy because if
Speaker 1: we don't, then we we we really are up Ship's Creek,
Speaker 1: you know, like we we are in a time right
Speaker 1: now where people are so cynical and scared and frankly
Speaker 1: acting bananas, all of us. Whether you want to blame
Speaker 1: the people that are making you bananas or your bananas
Speaker 1: or whatever it is, um uh, I think we all
Speaker 1: just need those quiet moments of reflection, and it's our
Speaker 1: job to embody it. I mean, look, we can't. That's
Speaker 1: another reason, like we can't. We can't idealize him either
Speaker 1: in a sense where like you know, he's gone. What
Speaker 1: we have to do is take his teachings and try
Speaker 1: to embody the ourselves so so you know, we can
Speaker 1: evolve and become one of our our own version of
Speaker 1: that love that he was able to embody, because that
Speaker 1: is what I think the world could really use right now.
Speaker 1: And we can't be looking for a savior or or
Speaker 1: I think be just sad over one like, hey, there
Speaker 1: was one guy that was really good at this once,
Speaker 1: Like why go and hang out with a kid you've
Speaker 1: never met her family? And you know in Russia, um
Speaker 1: who's having a tough time because because you can, because
Speaker 1: you have the he had the ability to. Christof still
Speaker 1: has a photo of that night. There's Fred on the
Speaker 1: couch with X the owl and there's Christoph beaming. When
Speaker 1: you genuinely learn how to listen and you're genuinely interested
Speaker 1: in somebody just because they're them, not because of any
Speaker 1: other reason that I think I got from just that interaction,
Speaker 1: I think that's what stayed with me. Screw Moscow next time.
Speaker 1: When Fred tells us that we are special, he meant
Speaker 1: that there's something deep down inside each of us, not
Speaker 1: to some of us, but each of us without which
Speaker 1: humanity cannot survive. Finding Fred is produced by Transmitter Media.
Speaker 1: Our team is Dan O'donald, Jordan Bailey, and Mattie Foley.
Speaker 1: Our editor is Sarah Nicks. The executive producer for Transmitter
Speaker 1: Media is Greta Cohne. Executive producers that fatherly are Simon
Speaker 1: Isaacs and Andrew Berman. Thanks to the team at I
Speaker 1: Heart Media, and also thanks to Christoph u Sol. Our
Speaker 1: show is mixed by Rick Kwan, music by Blue Dot
Speaker 1: Sessions and Alison Layton Brown. If you like what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: rate the show, review the show, and tell a friend
Speaker 1: I'm Carvel Wallace, thank you for listening. Teething can be
Speaker 1: a real nightmare for your little ones. Highlands Naturals Baby
Speaker 1: oral pain relief tablets can help ease the pain. It's gentle,
Speaker 1: natural active ingredients like camemeo and arnica soothe your baby's mouth,
Speaker 1: and gums made with ingredients derived from plant minerals and
Speaker 1: other sources free of harsh chemicals. You can count on
Speaker 1: Highlands for serious pain relief for your teething baby. Highlands
Speaker 1: is a kinder way to care for teething. Visit Highlands
Speaker 1: dot com, slash kind that's h y l A n
Speaker 1: d s dot com. Slash Kind claims based on traditional
Speaker 1: homeopath practice, not accept the medical evidence, not FT evaluated.
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