WEBVTT - This School District Did Less to Contain Covid and Their Students Thrived

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, March. I'm oscar A mirrors from the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>Dive podcast in Los Angeles, and this is reopening America.

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<v Speaker 1>One of the biggest debates of the pandemic was how

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<v Speaker 1>to proceed with school as the virus disrupted everything. Everything

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<v Speaker 1>from learning remotely or in person to wearing masks was

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<v Speaker 1>a point of contention, but at the Louis Palmer School

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<v Speaker 1>District in Colorado, they chose to keep kids in class

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<v Speaker 1>and made masks optional. What resulted were students who flourished

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<v Speaker 1>and boost some of their test scores, while other districts

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<v Speaker 1>in the state lag behind. Perry Stein, education reporter at

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<v Speaker 1>the Washington Post, joins us for how this district tried

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<v Speaker 1>to proceed as normal. Thanks for joining us, Perry. Thanks. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>we all saw a lot of different effects going on

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<v Speaker 1>because of the pandemic on schools. I mean, it was

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<v Speaker 1>just a huge disruptor closings and then openings, and then

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<v Speaker 1>arguments about mask wearing. It really played out very loudly

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<v Speaker 1>across the country. And you know, on on one hand,

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<v Speaker 1>we had parents and teachers, teachers unions saying we need

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<v Speaker 1>to have kids remote learning for fear of the virus. Spreading,

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<v Speaker 1>we need masks if we're gonna do in person learning.

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<v Speaker 1>And on the other side, we had a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>parents say, you know, we need our kids in school

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<v Speaker 1>because they're languishing at home, or you know, we don't

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<v Speaker 1>want them to wear a mask because it's just kind

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<v Speaker 1>of unnatural. They need they need to be free, and

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<v Speaker 1>kids are spared some of the worst effects of the virus.

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<v Speaker 1>So there was all these conversations going on. But you

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<v Speaker 1>wrote an article looking at the Louis Palmer School District

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<v Speaker 1>in Colorado, which kind of went the other way. I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>they said we're gonna still do in person learning and

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<v Speaker 1>not do the whole remote learning thing. They really didn't

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<v Speaker 1>do too much to contain the actual virus, and their

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<v Speaker 1>students did really well. We saw their h a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of their their school rates go up when a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the other rates in the in Colorado were going down.

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<v Speaker 1>So there's a lot to unpack here. So Perry, tell

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<v Speaker 1>us what the Lewis Palmer district did. Definitely, Yeah, I

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<v Speaker 1>just as you said, I spent a lot of my

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<v Speaker 1>pandemic covering school districts that really didn't reopen last year,

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<v Speaker 1>so I out to find one that did reopen, and

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<v Speaker 1>so I landed on Louis Palmer, which is right outside

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<v Speaker 1>of Colorado Springs, and they opened in the hall of

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<v Speaker 1>with all elementary school students in person full time, where

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<v Speaker 1>I should say all elementary students who wanted to go.

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<v Speaker 1>Families could still do virtual, but the overwhelming opted to

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<v Speaker 1>go in person five days a week. They decided they

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<v Speaker 1>based this off the study that showed at the time

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<v Speaker 1>that kids tennant under didn't spread the virus as much,

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<v Speaker 1>so they decided to go maskless UM to make masks

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<v Speaker 1>optional at the elementary school level in classrooms. UM. And

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<v Speaker 1>you know, it was at the time Louis Palmer or

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<v Speaker 1>the county that was Palmer is located in they didn't

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<v Speaker 1>have They were below national averages on um COVID rates.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a pretty wealthy school district, so a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>parents working from home, and it's pretty um, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's a sprawling nehe it's not like city. There's

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<v Speaker 1>like if there's like one or two apartment buildings that

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<v Speaker 1>I saw that, you know, and those were small buildings

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<v Speaker 1>that served as school district. So you know, people were

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<v Speaker 1>moving on top of each other. And they went to

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<v Speaker 1>reopen school and parents and teachers felt comfortable with this

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<v Speaker 1>and they did it. Yeah, and you know, we saw

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<v Speaker 1>the negative effects that happened play out because of some

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<v Speaker 1>of the closures. Obviously a lot of kids found it

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<v Speaker 1>really difficult to learn at home. It just wasn't their

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<v Speaker 1>regular thing. We saw a lot of them have mental

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<v Speaker 1>health issues that emotional maturity just from not being around

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<v Speaker 1>peers and kind of learning how things go. We've heard

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<v Speaker 1>of a lot of fights breaking out as soon as

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<v Speaker 1>kids started going back to school, you know. So we see,

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<v Speaker 1>we've seen all these negative effects, but here in this

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<v Speaker 1>school district, thankfully, a lot of that stuff didn't happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Tell me about some of the test scores that we saw,

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<v Speaker 1>because this is where I think in reading, a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of the students had an uptake. Maybe in math not

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<v Speaker 1>so much, but they were having great scores compared to

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<v Speaker 1>the overall state numbers. Yeah, I think that's true. And

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<v Speaker 1>I want to be clear. I mean hits here and

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<v Speaker 1>the school leaders will still tell you that in Lois

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<v Speaker 1>Palm where they did endure the pandemic, right, and that's

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<v Speaker 1>really stressful, the uncertainty they had, Quarantines, routines were broken.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure parents had anxiety some of their that you know,

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<v Speaker 1>kids can feel and understand, so they do still, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>they are still seeing some mental health concerns. They are

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<v Speaker 1>still having what they're what I would refer to as

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<v Speaker 1>pandemic induced challenges that they are needing to address. So

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<v Speaker 1>they weren't spared the pandemic. But yeah, I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>think you see the results coming out of there are better.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, no one argued that virtual learning for the

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<v Speaker 1>vast majority of kids is better than in personal and

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<v Speaker 1>so they benefited from getting a whole lot more of

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<v Speaker 1>in person learning. So at the elementary school early you

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<v Speaker 1>did see big gains in reading UM that outpaced UM

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<v Speaker 1>scores UM math everywhere in the country from what I

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<v Speaker 1>have seen, that was really hard to the online UM.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you'd see uh some drops there, but not

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<v Speaker 1>as big as UM the states drop. And something interesting

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<v Speaker 1>that I saw the improvements among some of the special

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<v Speaker 1>education kids that those were the kids that I think

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<v Speaker 1>largely have been you know, vulnerable kids that have been

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<v Speaker 1>UM set back the most from the pandemic because you know,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of their plans and services such as speech therapy,

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<v Speaker 1>some kids occupational therapy. One on one, so it couldn't

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<v Speaker 1>be delivered as effectively online. Um. Lewis Palmer did bring

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<v Speaker 1>back UM even their high school special education, their most UM,

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<v Speaker 1>the kids with the highest needs in high school. They

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<v Speaker 1>brought them back five days a week by November or

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<v Speaker 1>in November. So UM, so those were some of the

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<v Speaker 1>hopeful things. They still had challenges. I mean, there is

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<v Speaker 1>a big achievement gap in Lewis. There is an achievement

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<v Speaker 1>gap in b was Palmer between UM between white students

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<v Speaker 1>and students of color, and that did not UM improve

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<v Speaker 1>during the pandemic. This figures right into the conversation as

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<v Speaker 1>I mentioned earlier, right that there was this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>fight on both sides, you know, who would be right,

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<v Speaker 1>and a lot of this when you look at Louis Palmer.

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<v Speaker 1>You know a lot of people say, well, they got

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<v Speaker 1>lucky that there were no huge outbreaks. And I think

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned the article, like you know, overall like two

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<v Speaker 1>people went to the hospital and and they none of

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<v Speaker 1>them were students. You know, so a lot of people say, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>they got really lucky. Others say, you know, they did

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<v Speaker 1>it right. They followed health guidance, they kept the schools open,

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<v Speaker 1>they listened to parents, and whatnot question I have is,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, how did the teachers feel throughout all of this,

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<v Speaker 1>because that was one of the big conversations going around

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<v Speaker 1>where teachers, teachers unions are saying, well, kids could be

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<v Speaker 1>spared the worst of the virus, but the adults, the

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<v Speaker 1>instructors aren't. So that was a big conversation. How did

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<v Speaker 1>teachers feel in this district? You know, it's interesting, Um,

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<v Speaker 1>I came like I covered a lot of the teacher

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<v Speaker 1>union sights like you know, and a lot of the

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<v Speaker 1>teaching unions. I was say, we responding to what they

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<v Speaker 1>felt their communities wanted, that parents wanted, and you see,

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<v Speaker 1>cities like they see where I live. Parents didn't want

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<v Speaker 1>to go back. So it wasn't that the unions referred

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<v Speaker 1>so vastly from you know, every parent here, um, but here,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I was surprised. I tried to talk to

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<v Speaker 1>as many teachers as they could to really, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure I understood their viewpoints and most of the ones.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone I talked to and I didn't talk to all

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<v Speaker 1>the teachers obviously felt comfortable going back. They felt that

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<v Speaker 1>they they saw their kids fall behind that spring when

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<v Speaker 1>it was virtual learning and they felt they needed to

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<v Speaker 1>go back and they felt that it could be done safely.

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<v Speaker 1>You know. Some there was some teachers, you know, as

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<v Speaker 1>they the school district admitted that there were teachers that

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<v Speaker 1>felt that this that they didn't want to go back

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<v Speaker 1>and left. There were some teachers so that felt that

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<v Speaker 1>the school took too many passions. Some teachers that didn't

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to teach with masks. At least one so he

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<v Speaker 1>left the school system. So they were in the GANNET.

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<v Speaker 1>But the vast majority, I mean, they did a survey

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<v Speaker 1>ang July, it was pretty early on in the pandemic,

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<v Speaker 1>and the majority of teachers felt that school could be

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<v Speaker 1>reopened safely. Um, you know, teachers, the teachers that I

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<v Speaker 1>talked to, most of them did wear masks throughout last

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<v Speaker 1>year and wanted to wear masks if they had to

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<v Speaker 1>for mostly but they wanted to wear masks and still

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<v Speaker 1>wore masks overcomplishes. So I think the teachers were fairly

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<v Speaker 1>on board, you know. In the end, obviously, every situation

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<v Speaker 1>is different, and luckily for the school district it worked

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<v Speaker 1>out well. Their students were thriving, but they did have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of disruptions. Obviously, there weren't times where they

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<v Speaker 1>were just completely open. Because this happened in fall of

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<v Speaker 1>so this is when all school districts were going crazy

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<v Speaker 1>hybrid this full remote learning. They decided to get classes

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<v Speaker 1>going very early on in the pandemic still when we

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<v Speaker 1>were there, you know, so they did have disruptions when

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<v Speaker 1>case accounts were really going up they had to close

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<v Speaker 1>and do remote learning. But overall, even talking a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of those students, you know, they felt like it was

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<v Speaker 1>kind of a normal year and that you know, probably

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<v Speaker 1>lends itself to the argument of why they were doing

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<v Speaker 1>so good at least with their scores and whatnot. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>it's interesting. I tried to talk to him that the

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<v Speaker 1>students as possible and like, you know, you were asking

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<v Speaker 1>about something for a kid that was very normal for them.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I think they felt that, at least the

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<v Speaker 1>younger kids felt that it would felt pretty pretty well

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<v Speaker 1>for them. That you know, some of them thought that

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<v Speaker 1>the school because they were quarantined so much. And again

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<v Speaker 1>their kids are not following what's happening in every other district,

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<v Speaker 1>um right, they only know their own. Is that I

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<v Speaker 1>felt that they took too really precautions because they got

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<v Speaker 1>quarantine too much at the older grades. I mean, some

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<v Speaker 1>kids didn't get quarantined all. Some kids got quarantined multiple times.

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<v Speaker 1>Um that put them back into virtual learning. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>by and large, and again this is just a look

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<v Speaker 1>at one school district. They don't think that everything that

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<v Speaker 1>they did could be replicated in every other school district

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<v Speaker 1>or should have been. But I do think, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>where we are in the pandemic, it's important to look

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<v Speaker 1>at all different types of school districts and types of

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<v Speaker 1>decisions they made and how they may it didn't totally

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<v Speaker 1>and that's the interesting part. We're gonna be unpacking what

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<v Speaker 1>happened throughout the pandemic for years and we're gonna look

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<v Speaker 1>back to see what really worked, what didn't work, and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, hopefully we can carry that into the future.

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<v Speaker 1>But this massive disruption that we're going to have to

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<v Speaker 1>study this for some time and see where what we

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<v Speaker 1>did right and what we did wrong. Perry Stein, education

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<v Speaker 1>reporter at the Washington Post, thank you very much for

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<v Speaker 1>joining us. Yeah, thanks so much for helping me. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Oscar Ramirez and this has been reopening America. Don't forget

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<v Speaker 1>after today's big news stories, you can check me out

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<v Speaker 1>on the daily Dive podcast every Monday through Friday, so

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<v Speaker 1>follow us and I Heart Radio or wherever you get

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