1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,559 Speaker 1: Well, you might recall a November Bloomberg Business Week cover story, Tim, 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:05,520 Speaker 1: remember this, it was about the company twenty three and 3 00:00:05,559 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: me and how it's looking to use all the genetic 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: information that collects and able to make and sell its 5 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: own therapy. So, you know, the world of genetic testing 6 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 1: and using it as a diagnostic tool continues to grow 7 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,200 Speaker 1: and to really create new therapies. Yeah, far cry at 8 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: least for that company from the original premise right of 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,280 Speaker 1: helping you identify where you're from. Well, this next guest 10 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,160 Speaker 1: has spent more than two decades in healthcare. She's president 11 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: CEO of the genetic testing and genomic company. She's Katherine 12 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,800 Speaker 1: steulin Uh and, as I said, CEO of gene d X, 13 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: and she's on the phone in Bethesda, Maryland. Catherine, so 14 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: nice to have you here with Tim and myself. You know, 15 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: tell us a little bit about your company and what's 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: going on when it comes to genomics and genetic testing 17 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 1: being used to really develop therapies and improve the way 18 00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: we address healthcare. Certainly, and and I'm excited to share 19 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: with you what I think is really a new era 20 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 1: and her of delivering on the promise of the human 21 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: genome project as well as UM something that we've been 22 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: talking about quite a bit, which which is precision Medicine. 23 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: UM gen d X was fun out of the n 24 00:01:11,959 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: i H twenty years ago and really was known as 25 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: a company that was who doctors relied on to the 26 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: hardest to diagnose patients. But over time, our scientists have 27 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: been quietly pioneering the next generation of genetic testing that 28 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: looks deeply at the totality of the human genome to 29 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 1: be able to provide a faster diagnosis for patients and 30 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,240 Speaker 1: in turn be able, based on the results of our 31 00:01:41,280 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 1: genetic tests, be able to tell you what therapeutics might 32 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: be able to help you get on a healthier path sooner. Well, 33 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,600 Speaker 1: help me understand where patients use this and at what 34 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 1: point in their lives they use it, because up till now, 35 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: and you know, I don't want to give away too 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 1: much of my medical history. I'm talking on you know, 37 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: national radio here, Uh, but my only encounter with genetic 38 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: testing personally has has been when my wife got pregnant 39 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: with our son, And I think that's where a lot 40 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 1: of people first interact with it. When you know the 41 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,000 Speaker 1: person who's pregnant and in the partner get tested. But 42 00:02:17,760 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 1: that was it for me that that's true for so 43 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: many people. UM. Right now, genetic testing is being used 44 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:30,280 Speaker 1: in that setting. UM. You know, frequently when a woman 45 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 1: is thinking about having a baby or she's pregnant, and 46 00:02:33,960 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: she will still do a test, she and her partner 47 00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,200 Speaker 1: will do a test called carrier screening. UM. But then 48 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:44,120 Speaker 1: what we're able to do on the other side, once 49 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: there is hopefully a healthy baby, is be able to 50 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: ensure that when there is a symptom um that that 51 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: child may be displaying if God forbid, the babies in 52 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: the neonates neonatal intense of care unit or as a toddler, UH, 53 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: we're able to provide based on that baby's genome UM 54 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: rapid information that helps get to a diagnosis, a definitive 55 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 1: diagnosis sooner, which is critically important when you're thinking about 56 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: neurological conditions that could be impassing that child and then 57 00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 1: getting them on that treatment. UM. The other time that 58 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: people are utilizing genetic information often is when they have 59 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: a cancer diagnosis. So right now it really is being 60 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: used UM in the symptomatic setting. UM. But genetic information 61 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,880 Speaker 1: can actually be used in a preventive way UM to 62 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,920 Speaker 1: be able to get ahead of UM developing symptoms and 63 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 1: being able to keep people healthy versus diagnosi disease. It's 64 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 1: already in progress. So I think about things, you know, um, Katherine, 65 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,400 Speaker 1: that are just like diabetes, right, which is really we 66 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: talk about pandemics, right, you know, it's really becoming a 67 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: global pandemic in terms of the amount of people who 68 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,720 Speaker 1: have diet beats. How can we use genetic testing? How 69 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: are we maybe already in terms of anticipating it or 70 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: somehow getting better control of it, because it really just 71 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 1: seems like it's out of control. So genetic testing right 72 00:04:14,840 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 1: now is really best utilized UM and and setting such 73 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 1: as cardiovascular disease and oncology, and the pediatric setting for 74 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: neurological disorders or autism UM, as well as as you 75 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier, in the prenatal setting when when we're trying 76 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 1: to assess risk when it comes to a pregnancy for 77 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: for more common conditions that are metabolic in nature, like diabetes. 78 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: There's still a lot of work that needs to be 79 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: done from a technology standpoint to really help us better 80 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: understand the specific role of genetics that might predisposite predispose 81 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: somebody to to being uh, somebody who will have a 82 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 1: more so beer condition. Um. So there's a lot of 83 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:05,360 Speaker 1: work going into that. You'll hear in the future more 84 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 1: about something called polygenic risk risk scores, which is for 85 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 1: the broader um more common conditions like diabetes. UM. And 86 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: I think that that's going to be on the horizon 87 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: over the next five to ten years. We're still on 88 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,880 Speaker 1: the earlier stages for those sorts of conditions. Sit tight 89 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: for a second. We've got to do a little bit 90 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: of news, Katherine, but we'll come back and continue. Really 91 00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:30,800 Speaker 1: interesting and curious about the medical community, the health insurance company, 92 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: how they are increasingly embracing, uh, this era area when 93 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: it comes to its helpfulness in terms of figuring out 94 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: healthcare or or possibilities. What were you think, hey, And 95 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: one interesting thing is talking to friends about, you know, Matt, 96 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: that age where a lot of our friends are getting 97 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:47,359 Speaker 1: pregnant or worse, are having the second kid. Uh. We 98 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: talked to some friends who had a second kid. They 99 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,640 Speaker 1: repeated the genetic testing again, even though they had done 100 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,640 Speaker 1: it ahead of time before their first baby. And they 101 00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: did that because the company had actually identified more genes 102 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:00,280 Speaker 1: in the two or three years since they had their 103 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: previous baby. So you're it's just an acknowledgment of all 104 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: the information that continues to come out. All right, we'll 105 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:08,280 Speaker 1: continue with Katherine Steulin. She is the CEO of gene 106 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 1: d X, and we'll get to her once again in 107 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: just a moment. Let's get right back to Katherine Steulin, 108 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,280 Speaker 1: the CEO of gen d X. It's a medical genetics company. 109 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 1: It's got the largest clinical X own data set in 110 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: the world. Katherine, I want to talk more about the 111 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: business here because I think when it comes to products 112 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:27,279 Speaker 1: such as yours, the customer isn't necessarily the end patient. 113 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,840 Speaker 1: The customer is the provider who is prescribing it or 114 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 1: who is actually UM telling the patient that they should 115 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: get it. How do you how does that, how does 116 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 1: that sales process work? And how do you get your 117 00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: product more in the hands of more providers? So it's 118 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: it's a really important partnership that we have with a 119 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: provider a patient as well as with a payer UM 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,600 Speaker 1: and and we very much believe that it is the 121 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 1: most responsible approach to be working UM in that partnership 122 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: because we're delivering information that is actionable UM, meaning we're 123 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: providing a genetic report that is saying whether or not 124 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 1: somebody may have a health condition that they may need to, 125 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:17,200 Speaker 1: you know, go undergo some sort of therapy for um 126 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: or change another aspect of their life. So it's really 127 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:23,720 Speaker 1: important that we are working in partnership there. UM. The 128 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: way that we work today is we we sell our 129 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:31,840 Speaker 1: testing directly to clinicians. Mainly this has been to medical geneticists, 130 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 1: who are kind of the the experts expert when it 131 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:40,200 Speaker 1: comes to genetics, but we're seeing a broader group of clinicians. 132 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 1: As we mentioned earlier, OBEs are using it in terms 133 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: of assessing risk for pregnancy. On cologists are using it 134 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 1: to assess risk overall as well as what treatment might 135 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: be best for a patient. So we're starting to see 136 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: a shift from um the expert setting of medical geneticis 137 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: us into broader mainstream medicine. And so we educate providers 138 00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: about our services and we work with them to ensure 139 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: that they have all the tools that they need to 140 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 1: inform their patient as clearly as possible. You know, let 141 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,119 Speaker 1: me ask you something, do you think all babies should 142 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 1: get genome sequencing? And and mind you, this is your business. Um, 143 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: you know, I understand where you're coming from, but but 144 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: do you think it's a smart strategy. So I think 145 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 1: that there's a lot of nuance involved in in the 146 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,840 Speaker 1: question because ultimately, what we want to be able to 147 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: do is UM have information on hand to be able 148 00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 1: to provide a rapid diagnosis as soon as somebody is 149 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 1: showing up with the symptom UM. And I can tell 150 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: you if you look in the case of pediatric conditions 151 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: UM right now, as it's utilized today, genetic testing can 152 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,680 Speaker 1: be used too late UM, meaning that there's damage being 153 00:09:00,760 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: done to that child and they may not be eligible 154 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 1: if they get a diagnosis too late for certain therapy. 155 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 1: So one of the keys to using genetic testing is 156 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: having it on hand to be able to use it 157 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: as rapidly as possible to rule in or rule out 158 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:20,080 Speaker 1: what they're not There is UM an underlying genetic conditions, 159 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: so I think it's important that we all have access 160 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: to that information. UM. There have been some cases where 161 00:09:28,679 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: there have been studies where they've done sequencing at birth 162 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 1: and just provided the parents with an entire litany of 163 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: information that the parent doesn't need in that moment at all. 164 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: And that's not the way that we see this happening 165 00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: in the future. UM. What we see happening almost similar 166 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 1: to to cord blood but being medically actionable here, UM 167 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 1: is being able to sequence a baby at birth and 168 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: just hold that information on behalf of the parents and 169 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: the clinicians and individual and when there is information that 170 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: they need, were able to come in and provide a 171 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: definitive diagnosis or tell them there's not a genetic as 172 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 1: who you here and then they can quickly move on. Hey, 173 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: Catherine Moore on the business, Uh, you recently announced that, uh, 174 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:22,200 Speaker 1: Semaphore was buying you guys. Semaphore is an AI driven 175 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: genomic and clinical data intelligence platform company. You are going 176 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 1: to service co CEO after the acquisition is complete. Why 177 00:10:29,960 --> 00:10:31,680 Speaker 1: does this make sense? What are the you know, for 178 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:36,719 Speaker 1: lack of better term synergies here, So semaphoreg gen d 179 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 1: X are completely complementary. Um, each of us is doing 180 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 1: something distinctly different. But UM, we have technologies that are 181 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,160 Speaker 1: going to accelerate the use of one another's technology. So 182 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:51,959 Speaker 1: in the case of Semaphore, they do carrier screening. UM, 183 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 1: they have built a patient experience where they're able to 184 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: connect with a mom to be And I'm sure that 185 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: she has an understanding of what happens when she's doing 186 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:06,120 Speaker 1: her carrier springs UM. Once the child is born, that's 187 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,320 Speaker 1: where gene d x is technology comes to bear and 188 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: we're able again in the event that there is some 189 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: sort of symptom that the child is showing, to be 190 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:19,800 Speaker 1: able to then provide a diagnosis. So we're able to 191 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: essentially pick up where Semaphore leads off from the pregnate, 192 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: from the pregnant mom to be to now a mom 193 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 1: who has a child who needs an answer for her 194 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 1: her baby. UM. The other thing that we've done with 195 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: our xome and our genome that is ultimately going to 196 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,719 Speaker 1: be the backbone for UM all of the testing that 197 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:44,839 Speaker 1: Semaphore does, so we're able to get a more comprehensive 198 00:11:44,920 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: set of data that feeds their data engine called Centrellis 199 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 1: that also takes a look at e m R data 200 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: clinical note and is able to then ingest it and 201 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 1: ensure that every patient that we're testing it's the most 202 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:04,400 Speaker 1: accurate information possible. Hey, Katherine, one last question. I kind 203 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 1: of want to end with where we started UM. We 204 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: talked about a Bloomberg Business Week story that talked about 205 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,959 Speaker 1: the company twenty three and me how they are working 206 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 1: on drug developments in house. They're using the genetic material 207 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: that they're capturing from all of us. And I think 208 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: one in five Americans have done one of these, whether 209 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,760 Speaker 1: it's ancestry or twenty three and me kind of tests. 210 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 1: Do you think this is a good idea? And just 211 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: got about a minute or so about certainly, And I'm 212 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,079 Speaker 1: one of those people who have done twenty free me 213 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,360 Speaker 1: um and and and found twenty three and me kind 214 00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:39,720 Speaker 1: of scratches the surface of the genome. What we do 215 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:43,400 Speaker 1: at gen X is deep genomic sequencing, and it's the 216 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 1: totality and richness of the genetic information that we provide 217 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: that in working with pharma companies is going to actually 218 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: be the key to being able to more rapidly discover 219 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 1: new treatments, more rapidly bring new treatments to market, and 220 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: make sure that we really bring the promise of precision 221 00:13:02,160 --> 00:13:05,360 Speaker 1: medicine to life. Well, it's certainly an interesting field. Katherine, 222 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,920 Speaker 1: thanks so much for carving out so much time for us. 223 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 1: Katherine Stoutland, she is the CEO of gen d X, 224 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 1: joining us on the phone from Maryland