WEBVTT - Colin Sheehan - Part 2 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.200 Welcome back to another edition of the Friday Egg podcast. 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:08.639 Today we have part two of our actually three part 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:13.400 podcast with Yale golf coach Colin Shean. This podcast was 0:00:13.400 --> 0:00:16.560 supposed to be two parts, but then had to wrap 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.680 up the pod after I already posted part one and 0:00:20.720 --> 0:00:23.239 then Colin and I talked for like another forty minutes. 0:00:23.280 --> 0:00:24.840 So Part three. 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:29.200 Will be out on Monday night, Tuesday morning ish. 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:31.120 And hope you guys enjoyed this episode. 0:00:31.120 --> 0:00:33.120 I had a lot of fun talking with Colin, and 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.320 without further ado, here is part two of the three 0:00:36.360 --> 0:00:37.720 part podcast. 0:00:37.360 --> 0:00:38.040 I miss a green. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:40.760 For example, I'm already upset when I find my ball 0:00:40.760 --> 0:00:42.200 in the bunker, I'm really upset. 0:00:42.320 --> 0:00:42.760 And when I. 0:00:42.760 --> 0:00:45.159 Find my ball in a Frida egg Frida egg, the 0:00:45.280 --> 0:00:48.760 dreaded Frida egg Frida egg, Frida egggg Frida egg bride 0:00:48.760 --> 0:00:51.400 egg Lie, I'm about ready to run off the course. 0:01:13.880 --> 0:01:18.960 Once you graduated college, you started writing and editing golfing magazine. 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.640 Yeah, it was the golfer magazine. I got this. I was, 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:24.120 I was. 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:27.480 I originally wanted to get into architecture. I sent a 0:01:27.480 --> 0:01:31.360 few letters. I didn't In hindsight, he didn't really pursue 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:33.119 it as more aggressively. 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:34.960 I was too, I was too shy. 0:01:35.080 --> 0:01:39.039 I guess God bless ron Force at least he he replied. 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:41.759 And we we had a series of long phone calls 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:42.920 and he was trying to figure out a way to 0:01:42.959 --> 0:01:47.720 help me out, and and you know. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:49.160 I wound up. 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.440 I used to I used to help when I was 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.800 sort of out of college, looking for work, living at home. 0:01:57.440 --> 0:02:00.240 A neighbor of mine, Tom Graham, this wonderful guys like 0:02:00.240 --> 0:02:04.360 twenty time club champion and country go to Fairfield, great player. 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:09.799 You know, he's an RNA seminole national guy. He occasionally 0:02:09.840 --> 0:02:11.920 would ask me to, you know, drive him to the 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:13.919 airport or pick him up in the city or whatever. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.000 It was almost like just welfare for me. And he'd 0:02:16.040 --> 0:02:18.320 give me one hundred dollars. And one time I had 0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:19.720 to go into the city to pick him and this 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:21.560 other guy up. They were at some black tie event 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.040 at the Metropolitan Club. It was like a Robert Burns 0:02:24.120 --> 0:02:28.520 night in January, and they were having a laugh and 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:32.560 they mentioned they had served hagis and I casually said, oh, yeah, 0:02:32.560 --> 0:02:35.960 that's what Sandy Lyle served at the for his Masters 0:02:35.960 --> 0:02:39.120 for his Champions dinner in nineteen eighty nine, and. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:40.760 They were like, how did you know that. I'm like, oh, 0:02:40.800 --> 0:02:41.560 I just I don't know. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:44.520 I mentioned when I when I worked in the backroom 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:47.400 at the Patterson Club one year I worked for Brenda 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:51.480 Walsh when I was fifteen and sixteen, and I was 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:53.200 They asked me to help clean out the attic and 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.200 there was this cash of like Golf Digest from the 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.120 seventies a box. It must have been every issue from 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:02.720 like seventy two to seventy nine, and I wound up 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:07.120 reading them all. I wound up having a sort of 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:15.200 an unnecessary expertise in golf trivia and or just loving 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:15.560 the game. 0:03:15.600 --> 0:03:16.560 It's really what it was. 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:18.760 And I was very lucky to caddy the country go 0:03:18.760 --> 0:03:21.760 with Fairfield growing up, and my town had a nine 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.440 hole part three course, a public course at Jeff Cornish 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:26.120 Part three course that was a. 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:27.480 Dollar thirty five to play. 0:03:28.200 --> 0:03:30.720 So I was always really a golf and then and 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:32.800 this guy in the backseat was the publisher of the 0:03:32.800 --> 0:03:35.560 Golfer magazine, and he asked me if I wanted to 0:03:35.560 --> 0:03:36.920 come to work on Monday. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:38.480 And I was like sure. 0:03:39.760 --> 0:03:43.800 I started in early February of ninety eight, just as 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.000 an editorial intern, and by the end of that year 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.760 I was managing editor of a small magazine. 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:51.320 But it was a great time to be in New York. 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.320 It was was it was wonderful to be sort of 0:03:57.360 --> 0:04:02.480 writing and editing and traveling, still a healthy publishing circuit 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.920 of books coming in. We'd get the galleys to four 0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:08.800 or five books every week. I remember just constantly reading 0:04:08.800 --> 0:04:12.480 them all on the train. It was like a master's 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.159 degree in golf and golf architecture in those years. And 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.560 the one thing I really noticed was I was sent 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:21.719 to play a lot of new courses and they were 0:04:21.800 --> 0:04:24.720 not good. They were not and they weren't nearly as 0:04:24.800 --> 0:04:27.200 good as the old courses. It's when I really started 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:32.920 to see a sort of develop a sort of you know, 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:37.800 a sort of an opinion about modern courses and and 0:04:38.279 --> 0:04:40.560 versus new and old. And it was just, you know, 0:04:40.640 --> 0:04:43.599 it was it was. It was fascinating. It was fascinating 0:04:43.640 --> 0:04:48.120 to see golf in that sort of era and interviewing, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:54.480 interviewing architects and players, and it was I was living 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.120 paycheck to paycheck, but I was like a poverty jet 0:04:57.200 --> 0:05:00.360 set lifestyle, going on press trips and and. 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:03.799 Checking in like to hotels and stuff. 0:05:03.800 --> 0:05:06.400 It was you know, it was a good It was 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:08.120 the only time I could have done that when I 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:12.040 was sort of twenty two, twenty three, twenty four, and 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:14.560 but I still had an ambition to move beyond that. 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:16.880 As much as I enjoyed it, and I really did, 0:05:18.680 --> 0:05:22.400 I wanted to get into uh, you know, design and 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.880 development projects eventually. The and the one sort of moment 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:30.920 that really sort of helped kick that along was visiting 0:05:31.000 --> 0:05:33.599 Kingsbarnes in two thousand. I was so impressed with the 0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:36.920 course in the context of what I had seen the 0:05:36.960 --> 0:05:39.880 previous couple of years, when generally just seeing as just 0:05:39.920 --> 0:05:46.040 a string of poor and mediocre new courses, uninspired, unwalkable, artificial, 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:49.520 just a litany. 0:05:49.120 --> 0:05:51.480 Of just sort of. 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:55.559 Of demerits on every every course you went to. Kings 0:05:55.560 --> 0:05:58.080 Barnes was amazing. And I was equally impressed by the 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.159 sort of restraint on the clubhouse, sort of small scale 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:02.040 of it. 0:06:02.120 --> 0:06:02.359 And I. 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.360 Made it a point to find out who was involved 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.040 in the project, who developed it, and and I eventually 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.240 got in touch with Mark Parson, and super smart individual, 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:18.520 someone you should definitely have on your podcast, and we 0:06:18.640 --> 0:06:21.960 became friends, and I eventually tracked him down. You know, 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.880 I tracked him down and we had a series of 0:06:23.960 --> 0:06:27.640 just you know, two hour long phone calls, and he 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:29.560 told me about this. His next project was going to 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:33.240 be Castle Stewart in the Scottish Highlands, and you know, 0:06:33.240 --> 0:06:36.880 I sort of agreed to you know, two or three 0:06:36.960 --> 0:06:39.960 to be an intern on that project and move there. 0:06:39.960 --> 0:06:42.400 And eventually, with a little bit of delay in the 0:06:42.400 --> 0:06:45.599 permitting and entitlement process, it led to a moving there 0:06:45.600 --> 0:06:48.120 in two thousand and six. I was there for the 0:06:48.120 --> 0:06:49.560 majority of two that I was there for most of 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:53.279 two thousand and six and in portions of two thousand 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:56.840 and seven getting a witness a really complicated project from 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.080 the from the sort of ground up. 0:06:59.400 --> 0:07:00.400 It was really cool. 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:06.120 So so at that point you're probably thinking you want 0:07:06.160 --> 0:07:09.480 to go dive into golf architecture and that was your 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:10.000 big break? 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:11.040 What what uh? 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.800 Why didn't you get all the way into architecture. 0:07:15.840 --> 0:07:21.360 I guess I'll admit that, you know, it's in hindsight, 0:07:21.440 --> 0:07:23.880 I wasn't I wasn't willing to live the sort of. 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.680 Constant road warrior lifestyle. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:35.520 I I probably should have been doing that and first 0:07:35.800 --> 0:07:40.400 six ten years out of college, but you know. 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:41.760 I love living in New York. 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:45.920 I loved having all of my friends from from college, 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:47.240 you know, a lot of a lot of friends from 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:47.960 college there. 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:50.480 Eventually met my wife. You know. 0:07:50.560 --> 0:07:54.840 It's just being being on the road, being living out 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:58.600 of a living out of a suitcase. I guess just 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:03.080 wasn't just wasn't practical, and I understood the trade off 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:06.720 and I but really it was about seeing things from 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:08.240 the point of view of the developer, and I was 0:08:08.320 --> 0:08:11.600 I was more intrigued. I was interested by this concept 0:08:11.640 --> 0:08:15.920 of maybe being only involved in five projects in a career, 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:19.000 but having them, but having them, but being involved in 0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:21.000 the sort of on the development side of them as well, 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.080 and having them, you know, having a much longer and 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.800 relationship with those projects, sort of how I had envisioned 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:32.680 it at the time, you know. 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:34.240 And and then then. 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:37.280 That sort of fuels aspects of what I'm you know, 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:40.400 what you know, what we're what I'm trying to do now, 0:08:40.440 --> 0:08:42.719 And in some way or another, that's what led to 0:08:42.800 --> 0:08:46.680 me to sort of try to put the you know, 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:52.000 try to get the project in Cobtown going. It's sort 0:08:52.040 --> 0:08:56.560 of what interests me about Kanka Key, That's what interests 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:01.280 me about uh, you know, those types of projects, maybe 0:09:01.320 --> 0:09:05.640 having them come fewer and fewer than sort of idea 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:07.920 of coming in building something and leaving. 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:08.680 Yeah. 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.880 Yeah, it's like having a long term connection, because that's 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:15.040 one of the saddest things is you go, yeah, I 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.400 go see a ton of places, and most of the 0:09:18.480 --> 0:09:22.319 places I see that are public and once were great 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:26.840 are now at year sixty of the demise of them. 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:31.520 But I was in Philly recently and I saw Gill's 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:37.160 first project, Enniscrone, and I was walking around, and you know, 0:09:37.240 --> 0:09:40.320 for what it is right now, it's a great public option. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:44.120 But like you're walking around and I was just looking 0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.200 at it and you see bent grass, long bent grass 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:50.720 and rough, you know, in the rough, and you realize like, well, 0:09:50.880 --> 0:09:53.679 this is really this is almost more depressing because it's 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:57.160 ten years into the fifty or sixty year slide that 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:58.360 you see most courses. 0:09:58.440 --> 0:10:00.199 And yeah, yeah. 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:04.520 That's the thing is architects, once they're done with a project, 0:10:05.240 --> 0:10:07.520 it's kind of done, you know, It's it's out of 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:11.720 their hands then, and that that aspect of the business 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:16.160 is is almost the more important aspect, right. 0:10:16.200 --> 0:10:18.920 That's interesting, Like you they don't have control after the 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:24.440 fact of how it's presented or but you know, it's it's. 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:27.800 It reminds me to an extent of the helplessness I 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.760 felt when I was sort of arguing with my publisher 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:32.560 about how he was going to present the book and 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:36.559 he wanted to do you know, three three volumes and 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:39.360 a slipcase, and and you know, I in the end 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:41.560 it was he was the publisher. I didn't have a choice, 0:10:41.600 --> 0:10:44.080 even you know, in spite of the sort of you know, 0:10:44.440 --> 0:10:48.000 all the hard work I did you hear that from 0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:49.880 you definitely hear that from architects. You know, they spend 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:52.000 all that time working on stuff and then it's up 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:53.920 to the owner of the developer, or you know, the 0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:56.400 market forces take place and the next thing you know, 0:10:56.480 --> 0:10:58.719 it's right, it's been compromised. 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.000 Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's brutal. 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.480 It's I can only imagine how that feels like as 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.280 an architect, it was when you know something's going the 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:10.040 wrong way and and you can't do anything about it. 0:11:10.080 --> 0:11:13.560 I saw one of Mike Devreeese's early courses and on 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:15.600 one of the holes a center line bunkers now a 0:11:15.600 --> 0:11:20.320 center line pond. It's like, couldn't drain the bunker, so 0:11:20.400 --> 0:11:22.360 you just make it a pond. It's like it makes 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:25.720 the it turns the hole from like a spectacular hole 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:27.959 that you know you could you felt like you were 0:11:27.960 --> 0:11:30.240 on at Prairie Dunes once you get past the center 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:34.320 line pond on but instead like it's just offensive because 0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:38.640 there's a pond in the center of the fairway right, 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.920 it's like exactly, and it's just And I remember texting him, 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.360 I'm like, I'm sure the center line pond's not Originally 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.720 He's like, yeah, dot dot dot. You know, it's just 0:11:50.440 --> 0:11:54.640 you lose so much of it. So you're you're a 0:11:54.679 --> 0:11:58.760 big student of golf course architecture. If you were going 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.000 to put together a mount rush for more of architects, 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:02.160 who would it be on it? 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:10.000 I feel like, uh, I feel like when you're on 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:12.520 the best of Alice mackenzie, I feel like you're on 0:12:12.559 --> 0:12:20.120 the work of genius. I do love Ah, I do 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:24.440 love McDonald. I do and it's even with this relatively 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:30.559 small sample size. Always always loved coult I've always loved 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:31.520 his work in the UK. 0:12:31.840 --> 0:12:34.080 He was blessed with sort of sort of wonderful sites. 0:12:35.679 --> 0:12:39.280 And then I do think and I think that I 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:43.839 probably could come up with a better answer, But I 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:47.559 still think Ross is sort of somehow underrated. He gets 0:12:47.600 --> 0:12:52.120 like knocked for having so many courses. There's some in 0:12:52.240 --> 0:12:55.520 his but the sort of I think that would be 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:57.520 my quick answer that. 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:02.360 You only get four for a Rushmore comparison. 0:13:01.800 --> 0:13:05.800 Is yeah, yeah, yeah, we uh, who would be who would. 0:13:05.640 --> 0:13:11.080 Be the one that is you'd say underappreciated where you'd say, like, 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.560 you know, he's not Mount Rushmore guy, but he's a 0:13:14.600 --> 0:13:19.080 guy that everybody that the general public doesn't understand or 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:23.680 or that his you know that their work wasn't you 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.760 know it was misinterpreted or lost whatever. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:35.520 Well, I agree that I agree with you that yeah, 0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:43.640 you know, Langford, Langford and Moreau we're building, We're we're building. 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:48.240 We're ambitious in their in their projects in there, in 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:52.040 the degree of difficulty of the sort of shots around 0:13:52.120 --> 0:13:56.160 the green I put them in there, I don't know, 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.480 So you have to in the in the met section, 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:01.920 you just you can see all these debreuemic courses that 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:03.080 are just sensational. 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:04.719 Walter Travis. 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.440 I can't even get over how good everything Walter Travis 0:14:07.440 --> 0:14:10.520 ever did was fabulous, and I love his variety of bunkering. 0:14:12.480 --> 0:14:15.240 William Flynn is there. I mean, there's not a more 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:20.520 perfect golf course than Shinnecock. You know, then his best work. 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.600 Who else isn't getting you know, he's well covered. 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.960 Perry Maxwell, Harry. 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.080 Maxwell, jeez, I just took the team this fall. I 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:31.480 took it. 0:14:33.240 --> 0:14:38.360 The UH old Town had an event. For the first 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:40.760 time in the history of Wake four and in fifty years, 0:14:40.800 --> 0:14:44.640 Old Town hosted a Wake Forest tournament this past September 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.200 on a Monday Tuesday. The practice round was the Sunday 0:14:48.200 --> 0:14:51.080 that Tiger won the Tour championship. By the way, that 0:14:51.200 --> 0:14:55.440 place is sensational. That's what Augusta wants to be. The 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:59.320 width of the course was incredible, that the sort of 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.320 and yet the angles that the critical sort of preferred 0:15:02.320 --> 0:15:04.800 angles were or something my players. 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:07.200 Love figuring out. I'm blown over. 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.760 Perry Maxwell's sensational. 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:11.760 So how do you how do you go about building 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:12.200 a schedule? 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:14.320 Did you see that they were going to host an 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:17.120 old Town and immediately or like we have to go there? 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:22.560 We got invited? That was an invite? UH coach hoss Uh, 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.880 he's a friend. But maybe Dunlop White their their golf 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.560 care recommended Yale. We always bring a little you know, 0:15:29.560 --> 0:15:31.320 we bring a touch of class to an event when 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.160 when Yale Yale's there, we bring our twenty one national 0:15:35.240 --> 0:15:41.280 championships to the UH. But UH, that was just an 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:44.120 honor to get invited. And we went down on Saturday morning. 0:15:44.120 --> 0:15:45.920 It was a Monday Tuesday event and so we we 0:15:46.200 --> 0:15:48.760 flew down Saturday morning. We played an extra practice round 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:53.680 which was which was really useful. And but yeah, so 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.600 we we we we generally play in the Northeast. Were 0:15:56.640 --> 0:15:59.080 limited to sort of a certain number of degrees on 0:15:59.120 --> 0:16:01.960 the road. Days on the road, you know, dates of 0:16:01.960 --> 0:16:06.200 competition are limited, uh to an extent. We definitely have 0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:09.360 a sort of a cap on our Monday Tuesday tournaments. 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.120 We basically try to play one of those a year. 0:16:13.000 --> 0:16:14.680 But so that was a cou to get in it. 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:18.000 We played the team the boys were boys played great. 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:21.320 They played their way into the final pairing for with 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:23.760 with Wake and Louisville. On the sort of final round 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.400 on Tuesday morning, we stubbed our toe a bit and 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.720 finished sixth. But it was a fabulous experience that that 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:33.040 that there needs to be more events like that, and 0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.600 you know, and I and we're invited back, but the 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:37.800 club only gave Wake a. 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:38.720 Two year contract. 0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:43.680 They you know, yeah, there one more year than augustin 0:16:43.760 --> 0:16:44.840 National gives CBS. 0:16:44.880 --> 0:16:51.640 But hopefully that becomes a fixture because that that was a. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:55.040 Perfect example of an event where, you know, seventy five 0:16:55.120 --> 0:17:03.080 college golfers were treated to a pre World War two gem. 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.760 Those walkable, fabulous scores were low, but who cares? Best 0:17:07.880 --> 0:17:10.680 best team won, the best player the best player one. 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.800 I kind of feel that way with like great architecture. 0:17:14.040 --> 0:17:22.280 It's rendered you know, it's rendered less, you know, challenging 0:17:22.720 --> 0:17:27.080 by distance and technology, but I feel like it still 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.880 separates the class because of the green complexes and the 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:36.040 angles that they force, Like especially at really great golf courses, 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:38.879 like you still have to play them really well to 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.280 take advantage of the distance because you can be in 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.440 positions on a good you know, well designed great greens 0:17:46.440 --> 0:17:49.040 like Maxwell greens. If you're out of position, you know 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.040 you have you just have no chance. It doesn't matter 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.760 if you're fifty yards or two hundred and fifty yards. 0:17:55.200 --> 0:18:00.879 Absolutely you get the I love the sort of the 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:05.159 the scoring, the elasticity of scoring, where a player plays 0:18:05.160 --> 0:18:08.760 well shoots sixty seven and someone else plays poorly and 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:12.560 it's seventy seven. It's like you can and then you could. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.880 Those two golfers could flip roles and flip scores. 0:18:15.560 --> 0:18:16.320 The next day. You know. 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:21.200 It's I find that interesting, Like it appears easy until 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.400 it's not. Until you're out of position and you're making bogies. 0:18:24.480 --> 0:18:29.000 It's like there's something. It's it's not always apparent, like 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:30.880 why you're able to stay underneath the hole, it's because 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:32.320 you set it up with the good t ball. And 0:18:33.080 --> 0:18:36.320 I was blown away by Old Town being like probably 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:40.320 as close to what Augusta National looked like, and when 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:42.840 when Old Town opened in nineteen thirty nine, it had to. 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:45.160 Be like a twin with Augusta. 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.320 National in nineteen thirty nine, that had to be so 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:48.560 remarkably similar. 0:18:49.160 --> 0:18:51.359 It's I'm really kind of bummed out. 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.520 I always make like every start of the year, I 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:57.359 have five courses that I want to see for the year, 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:00.919 and it was like one of the five that I 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:03.480 wanted to see just because of like the way Bill 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:06.639 Krr talks about Old Town. It's like that's the place 0:19:06.680 --> 0:19:09.040 you got to go see and now you're hearing that, 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.520 hearing you say that, and I was talking to a 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:15.440 guy and he was like, Oh, they a flood washed 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.440 away one of their holes, so they have to rebuild 0:19:17.480 --> 0:19:20.880 one of the holes out there. And I'm like, he's like, yeah, 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.120 you can't, can't go down there until the next year. 0:19:23.400 --> 0:19:25.959 I'm like, ship, you know, I didn't. I didn't get 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:27.960 that one. Get that one done this year? 0:19:28.320 --> 0:19:29.439 How recently was that? 0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:32.960 Like, I think it was like a couple of weeks ago. Wow, 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:35.560 so you might must have gotten it right before. I 0:19:35.560 --> 0:19:38.439 think it was the hurricane. It was hurricane enough, it 0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:38.920 was flow. 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:43.959 Oh well, the major. It's possible they had just they 0:19:44.000 --> 0:19:46.560 had sidestepped the one that hit the hit. 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:50.600 The coast, but maybe I don't know. Yeah, you know 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:51.399 the one that came up. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:56.440 So uh you you I know you love golf in 0:19:56.480 --> 0:19:59.240 the UK. Have you been to Australia? 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:00.520 Definitely? 0:20:00.600 --> 0:20:04.399 I went on one trip in March or April of 0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.720 two thousand and three. It might have been there thirteen 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:13.119 days and played like eighteen courses. It was an aggressive visit. 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.280 Very the way it has to be, though, when you 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:17.960 don't know when you're going to go back there, you 0:20:18.040 --> 0:20:18.439 never know. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:19.800 It was beautiful. 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:25.760 Fell in love with the Seven Sisters loved New South Wales, 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:30.720 could live in Sydney, enjoyed Newcastle, did not get to 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:34.760 and then finished in Natelaide, did not get to any 0:20:34.760 --> 0:20:36.560 of the islands. At that point I sort of figured 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:37.440 out I'd have to get back. 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:41.080 You got to take a team dream trip down there. 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:43.000 I know we're allowed to do so. 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:46.400 One of the great sort of legacies of my predecessor 0:20:46.520 --> 0:20:54.080 is the international trip. I was so fortunate to go 0:20:54.160 --> 0:20:58.399 on it in tw nineteen ninety six as a junior coach. 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:03.760 Patterson began in nineteen seventy five. He took the team 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:08.240 in nineteen seventy six on the first of what must 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:13.600 have been eight quadrennial trips. So the ENNSAA allows you 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:17.320 to have an international trip to compete internationally once every 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:21.520 four years, so essentially one time in your undergraduate experience, 0:21:22.160 --> 0:21:24.320 and he takes them to England and Scotland. He took 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:26.160 them to England and Scotland for two weeks and played 0:21:26.160 --> 0:21:29.000 matches against Oxford and Cambridge and the Universities of St 0:21:29.080 --> 0:21:34.439 Andrews and Edinburgh and equally fun like club matches against 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:39.240 the Old Buffties at Mierfield and Royal Sinkport's and Royal 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.840 Liverpool and that trip to me in nineteen ninety six, 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.600 our spring break trip. We went in March, two weeks 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:50.400 a fortnite in the UK during March where we played 0:21:50.440 --> 0:21:53.320 alternate shot and played winter golf and we got snowed 0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:57.760 out at Oxford and that was the sort of most 0:21:58.480 --> 0:21:59.800 important two weeks of my time. 0:22:00.040 --> 0:22:02.240 Yeah, that's where you. 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:08.280 Know, it's like golfing diplomacy. It was just fascinating to 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:14.080 play links courses, to play Heathland courses, to just just 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.679 completely fall in love with the culture of golf, the 0:22:17.720 --> 0:22:20.800 pace of play, the way they sort of the way 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:23.920