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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

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Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election,

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Speaker 2: So we've got a number of pieces here on the

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Speaker 2: direction of the Democratic Party. So Kamala Harris has been

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Speaker 2: doing a whole book tour and taking some interviews, and

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Speaker 2: apparently she's seriously contemplating running for president again. Guys, let's

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Speaker 2: go ahead and take a listen to this.

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Speaker 4: Gen Z and Latinos in some numbers moved across to Trump.

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Speaker 4: You stayed in your comfort zone, didn't you.

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Speaker 1: That was the Democrats problem.

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Speaker 5: I received seventy five from the votes from a variety

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Speaker 5: of people in college. You were.

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Speaker 1: They're going to see a women in charge in the

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Speaker 1: White House in their lifetime for sure?

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Speaker 4: Could it be you?

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Speaker 1: Possibly?

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Speaker 6: Have you made a decision yet?

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Speaker 1: No, I have not, But you say in your book

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Speaker 1: I'm not done. That is correct. I am not done.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I don't know. I take from that

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Speaker 2: that she is intending to run again. It's crazy to me, Soger,

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Speaker 2: because I mean, number one, Okay, how did your two

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Speaker 2: presidential races go number one in the Democratic where you

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Speaker 2: didn't even.

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Speaker 4: Make it to the first votes.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that was your first time out of the

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Speaker 2: gates when voters actually got to see you in debates

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Speaker 2: and you know, like how this was going to go,

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Speaker 2: and they were like, this is not working for us.

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Speaker 4: You had to drop out.

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Speaker 2: Then you're handed the nomination after Biden has pushed on

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Speaker 2: of the race, and you lose, and you know, I'm sympathetic.

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Speaker 2: I think it was a very difficult hand she was dealt.

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Speaker 2: But she also made some really key mistakes. And it's

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Speaker 2: just incapable of being sort of like a normal person.

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Speaker 2: And you know, going out in the world, everything is

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Speaker 2: poll tested. She doesn't really believe in anything. It's just like,

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Speaker 2: let me put my finger in the wind and try

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Speaker 2: to figure out where the electrode is and people sense that.

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Speaker 2: And now, like I could have been open to you know,

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Speaker 2: some growth and some development if she was in the

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Speaker 2: fight now. But this is just let me write a

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Speaker 2: book and let me do some self aggrandizement at a

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Speaker 2: moment when and I'll you know, sort of like channeling

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Speaker 2: a democratic base here, like they feel and I feel

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Speaker 2: the country is under an imminent threat, that there's all

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Speaker 2: this horror that is being proven on all these communities

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Speaker 2: across the country, all of this crazy shit that's going

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Speaker 2: on that we're covering every day. Where have you been, Like,

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Speaker 2: if you want to be a leader, that doesn't mean

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Speaker 2: you just show out here. I am and look at

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Speaker 2: my resume and aren't I next in line? No, you

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Speaker 2: actually have to lead. People want to see you out

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Speaker 2: there fighting. They want to see you at an ICE

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Speaker 2: protest get arrested, like they want to see you at

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Speaker 2: the stop Oligarchy tour.

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Speaker 4: They want to see you rallying.

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Speaker 2: For Zorn And all you're doing is your little self

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Speaker 2: promotional book tour. I mean, I find it utterly disqualifying,

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Speaker 2: honestly that her absence and her lack of interest in

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Speaker 2: what is happening in the country and the fights that

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Speaker 2: are going on right now, and I have to think

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Speaker 2: that the Democratic base is very much going to feel

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Speaker 2: the same way. It's crazy to me how out of

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Speaker 2: touch this lady is.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I don't know though.

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Speaker 3: But at the same time, if you look at the polls,

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Speaker 3: she's always up there, she's got like four or five.

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Speaker 3: But the Democratic base, while previously you know, might be

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Speaker 3: showing some fight and all of that, they still are

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Speaker 3: deferential in some ways to previous party elites. Do they

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Speaker 3: recognize but do they recognize that the failure as Kamala's

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Speaker 3: or do they just blame Trump?

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Speaker 4: I think I think it's so. I mean, I would

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Speaker 4: like to know. I genuinely think, like.

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Speaker 2: You know, even with regard to the primary polls, already, she's.

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Speaker 4: Not number one anymore.

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Speaker 1: No, yeah, that's true, all right.

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Speaker 2: You know, one he Gavin AOC was number one in

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Speaker 2: a recent poll. And Gavin in particular, you know, I

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Speaker 2: like think Gavin socks and we.

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Speaker 4: Play the APAC like, oh, that's interesting clip.

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Speaker 2: And I think he's going to run into you know,

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Speaker 2: a few burke walls himself. But he is in the fight,

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Speaker 2: you know, And the Democratic base certainly appreciates that. But

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Speaker 2: now if you look at they're discussed with current Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party leadership, you think they're going to go back to

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Speaker 2: that well again like the person who was a proven loser.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely not.

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Speaker 2: And yet the way this work soager is like, I'm

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Speaker 2: sure she has people around her who were there just

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Speaker 2: to like glaze her and proper up and tell her

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Speaker 2: she's amazing and that everybody still loves her, and they're

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Speaker 2: just waiting for her to, you know, come out and

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Speaker 2: have her coronation or whatever, because they profit, like they're

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Speaker 2: in position, they're the consultants. They were going to do

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Speaker 2: the ad buys and place the media buys and get

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Speaker 2: the cut the.

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Speaker 4: Percentage off of that.

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Speaker 2: And you know, they know that she can raise some

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Speaker 2: money from She's got all these donor connections or whatever,

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Speaker 2: and so they have a personal financial in in telling

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Speaker 2: her that the country wants her and that there's some

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Speaker 2: interest in her running for president.

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Speaker 4: Again, it's insane to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I hope you're right. I want it to

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Speaker 3: be that way. I still am skeptical. I just think

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Speaker 3: there's a weird reverence for these types of figures. There's

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Speaker 3: a long history Unfortunately of California, Richard Nixon famously lost

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Speaker 3: the election, you know, ran for governor, lost as Kamala

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Speaker 3: apparently had thought about it and still was able to

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Speaker 3: prevail in the primary and in the general election in

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Speaker 3: nineteen sixty eight. So there is this weird thing that

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Speaker 3: we have in this country of some sort of reverence.

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Speaker 1: I would hope that you are correct.

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Speaker 3: But also there's the theory of spoiler right where she

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Speaker 3: could have enough people. Here's my thing, will enough people

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Speaker 3: speak out vehemently against her elites from which they have

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Speaker 3: some trust Obama, you know, Biden, even maybe Pete Botajeedge

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Speaker 3: others who served with her, who are like, this woman

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Speaker 3: is incompetent. She lost as the presidency. We can't go

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Speaker 3: down that direction.

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Speaker 4: I hope it's the Cuomo was Yeah, it was abandoned.

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Speaker 2: That's true. He lost the primary, you know, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 2: I mean, but yeah, that's that's the thing.

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Speaker 3: Heading into the primary. It's not like people spoke out

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Speaker 3: for z around Mambdani. Everybody just stayed silent. I mean,

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Speaker 3: I guess time.

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Speaker 4: Right, But that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: I don't know that it matters what Obama or you know,

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Speaker 2: certainly Joe Biden has to say about Kamala Harris. I

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Speaker 2: think the base is in a very very different place now,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we're like Graham Plattner is a perfect

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Speaker 2: example of this. We saw two poles that had him

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Speaker 2: way up on Jana Mills. There's another pole that came

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Speaker 2: up that had her up. But he did a town

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Speaker 2: hall last night in a town of like twenty two

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Speaker 2: hundred people and got seven hundred people there and they

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Speaker 2: were the most like normy, white hair, liberal looking Democratic

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Speaker 2: base voters that you could possibly imagine. It's just a

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Speaker 2: different moment now. You know, they tried the Biden where

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Speaker 2: they tried the kamal away and it failed, and at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, they're not going to be

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Speaker 2: you know, they're not going to listen to those folks again.

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Speaker 2: MSNBC has lost their credibility, All sorts of liberal outlets

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Speaker 2: have lost their credibility. I truly think that they are

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Speaker 2: in a very different place than they were last time around.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, these are the voters that also

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Speaker 2: at least have the good sense to reject her in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty as well, before she even got to the

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Speaker 2: you know, got to the starting line.

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Speaker 4: So you know, I look, we'll see.

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Speaker 2: But even if I just think about Gavin Newsom, like

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Speaker 2: I think Gavin would eat her lunch, and he has

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Speaker 2: the donor base.

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Speaker 3: I want them to have a fight, Like I want

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Speaker 3: them to have to come out and be like she's

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Speaker 3: an abject failure and we're not going down this path.

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Speaker 4: Ever, they're not going to do that, like the elites

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Speaker 4: in the party. They're not going to do that.

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Speaker 2: But I don't think it matters, like the voters themselves

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Speaker 2: will render the judgment. And so you know, Gavin has

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Speaker 2: the same These are these are donor creatures like her

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Speaker 2: and Gavin. These are establishment donor creatures. And he's a

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Speaker 2: much better political animal and political like.

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Speaker 4: Total than she is.

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Speaker 2: Uh And they have similar donor bases, both coming out

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Speaker 2: of California. So if I even just think about him

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Speaker 2: versus her, let alone the you know, the AOCS or

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Speaker 2: whoever is to emerge over these coming years that are

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Speaker 2: much more charismatic and much more figure on the pulse

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Speaker 2: of where the Democratic base is.

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Speaker 4: I don't think she's got a prayer, but I truly hope.

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Speaker 3: So I just remain cynical about some politics and It's

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Speaker 3: one of those where I want to see the election status.

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Speaker 3: Who knows where things are going to be in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty three. I could just it's not that I count

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Speaker 3: her out, it's I don't count out the machine. The

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Speaker 3: machine is powerful and at the very least, like they

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Speaker 3: convinced this, Like you're saying the voters will weigh and

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Speaker 3: I'm like they didn't in twenty twenty four, right, I

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Speaker 3: mean they just handed her, asked the nomination and she

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Speaker 3: literally got to run for president with no pushback. Even now,

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Speaker 3: everyone can admit KJP was a disaster. We can admit Kamala,

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Speaker 3: but there has there been like remember, oh I forgot

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Speaker 3: the DNC what is it called the retrospective the autopsy?

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Speaker 1: How they won't.

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Speaker 3: Examine Kamala, Like nobody is blaming this woman. Nobody in

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Speaker 3: the party even today can be like you were a disaster.

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Speaker 1: Nobody can say it.

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Speaker 2: Among them powerful Yeah, Bud, But I just you know,

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Speaker 2: in the way that twenty twenty went down is in

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Speaker 2: terms of like Bernie being defeated and everybody rallying around

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Speaker 2: Biden was these elite figures and the media apparatus still

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Speaker 2: had sway and when they said Biden's our guy.

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Speaker 4: The base flipped immediately. I mean it was stunning.

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Speaker 2: They do like that does not exist anymore, doesn't exist anymore.

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Speaker 4: And Planner, I mean, it was a long way to go.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not saying that he's gonna win. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what's going to happen in Maine, but you know,

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Speaker 2: they threw everything they had at him. In a twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty era, it would have been enough. He would have

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Speaker 2: had to drop out, Like you wouldn't even gotten to

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Speaker 2: this place to start with, right, Janet Mills is here,

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Speaker 2: she's the sitting governor of may. Of course we're going

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Speaker 2: to back Janet Mills, Like, who do you think you are?

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Speaker 2: And so the fact that he can even stay in

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Speaker 2: the race and is you know, at least a fifty

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Speaker 2: to fifty shot to be the nominee tells you it

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Speaker 2: is a totally different day in the Democratic Because I.

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Speaker 1: Don't know if he's gonna win either.

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Speaker 3: My moin question is a bit yeah, No, you're right,

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Speaker 3: is that in the old days he would have been

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Speaker 3: done that They would have been like, oh the people, you.

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Speaker 2: Have a Nazi tattoo, like, and you can stay in

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Speaker 2: the race now as a Democrat and people are flooding

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Speaker 2: your town halls. That's that is a very different moment

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Speaker 2: for the Democratic base. I wanted to get to get

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Speaker 2: this because I love it, so Kathy Hochel. Again, this

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Speaker 2: is another sign that the things are very much shifting

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Speaker 2: and influx in the with the Democratic base. Kathy Hochel

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Speaker 2: felt the pressure to go and rally with Zoron. At

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Speaker 2: this rally was Bernie Aoc Zoron and Brad Lander and others,

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Speaker 2: and Kathy Hochel, who had positioned herself previously as this

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Speaker 2: very like moderate centristee figure, and the crowd chants at

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Speaker 2: her aggressively tax the rich because Zoron needs the Albany'e

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Speaker 2: cooperation in order to fund things like free childcare, and

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Speaker 2: she has opposed that, and so the crowd is aware

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Speaker 2: of that, and so they're channing to tax the rich.

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Speaker 2: Zoran has to kind of like come out and save

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Speaker 2: her so she doesn't get booed off the stage.

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Speaker 4: And so she gets asked about this moment.

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Speaker 2: It's a very Kamala Harris answer that she gives here

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Speaker 2: and she pretend she didn't hear, she didn't know that

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Speaker 2: they were saying tax the rich. She thought they were

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Speaker 2: saying like, let's go bills or.

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Speaker 4: Something like that, names that let's take a listen to

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Speaker 4: D two.

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Speaker 5: I thought they were saying let's go bills. I wasn't

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Speaker 5: I wasn't sure. When you're up there, I heard some noise,

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Speaker 5: I heard a lot of tears. But later on it

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Speaker 5: became clear to me that there is a I know,

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Speaker 5: this passion for that.

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, let's go bills and Queen.

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Speaker 2: Incredible, incredible. It reminds me because remember what was it

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Speaker 2: on Medicare for All? Kamala like raised her hand saying

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Speaker 2: that we should get rid of all private insurance, and

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Speaker 2: then she thought better of that.

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Speaker 4: And then, oh, I didn't hear the question. I didn't understand.

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Speaker 3: There's also the infamous fuck Joe Biden chance that turned

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Speaker 3: into let's go Brandon. So there's been there's been a

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Speaker 3: lot of those there everyone. Anyway, Look again, I'm newer

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Speaker 3: to football, but let's go bills in Queen, come on

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Speaker 3: all right on a day when the Jets one get

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Speaker 3: the fuck out? Yeah, you know when you say.

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Speaker 2: And she even responded, she was like, I hear you.

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Speaker 2: Like the way she responded indicated she understood what the

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Speaker 2: crowd was ultimately chanting at her. This was an interesting

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Speaker 2: clip too, the morning Joe creature coming out and Joe

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Speaker 2: Scarborough is sort of like accepting the rises are on, Mom, Donnie,

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Speaker 2: this is D three listlessm.

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Speaker 7: Mom, Donnie that I did it right. And they they've

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Speaker 7: been Bernie Sanders and what do they have in common?

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Speaker 7: They have a populist message and yes people is they

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Speaker 7: are they're socialists and socialists socialists. Yeah, they said that

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Speaker 7: about Barack Obama too, and he kicked Republicans ass twice.

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Speaker 7: So it's that populist message that they're putting out there

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Speaker 7: that even there are times and even Steve Banny goes, yeah,

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Speaker 7: what AOC's saying there I agree with And a lot

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Speaker 7: of people like in the populist wing of the MAGA

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Speaker 7: Party agree with a lot of that stuff too. Same

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Speaker 7: thing with Lisa Khan and what she was doing about

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Speaker 7: breaking up monopolies. There is a lane for populist democrats

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Speaker 7: to run in and to win.

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Speaker 2: He is a big Lisa con amazing stuff. But I

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Speaker 2: mean for him to you know, give zoron any bat

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Speaker 2: Cuomo or stay neutral or what I mean. This man

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Speaker 2: hated Bernie Sanders back during both of his runs, so

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Speaker 2: again shows you he's trying to have his you know,

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Speaker 2: finger in the wind of where things are.

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Speaker 7: All.

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Speaker 3: Oh, he's a New York City resident. He wants to

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Speaker 3: stay on the good side, you know. Yeh see, I

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Speaker 3: do think it's all.

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Speaker 2: Actually, he probably lives in New Jersey. I don't know

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Speaker 2: or connect but he lives in you don't. He's a

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Speaker 2: Manhattan guy. He does give Yeah, he gives me Connecticut.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna look it, uphile you're talking.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, him and Mika are so into

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Speaker 3: the social scene. I kind of think they are. So

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Speaker 3: here's my theory, because I know that they have a

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Speaker 3: house in Florida. They are six month and one day

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Speaker 3: people in Florida and the rest of the time Manhattan penala.

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Speaker 1: Oh damn.

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Speaker 3: I would have guessed. I would I would have guessed

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Speaker 3: Manhattan penthouse for five months in whatever twenty nine days

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Speaker 3: for tax dodging strategy.

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Speaker 4: They do also have a place in Florida.

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Speaker 1: Okay, all right, see I knew that at least.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, let's stick with this though, because I think

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Speaker 3: this is fascinating. This kind of gets to the sore

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Speaker 3: on point let's put this new chart up on the screen.

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Speaker 3: This is from a new kind of centrist platform thing

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Speaker 3: called Deciding to Win, And they put out a bunch

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Speaker 3: of polling on the Democratic Party and I thought this

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Speaker 3: was absolutely fascinating. This is the change in the frequency

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Speaker 3: per one thousand words of select terms in the party

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Speaker 3: platform from twenty twelve to twenty fourteen. So the mention

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Speaker 3: of jobs from twenty twelve percentage changed twenty fourteen was

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Speaker 3: minus forty seven percent. Economic is minus forty eight percent.

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Speaker 3: Middle class was minus seventy nine percent, Economy minus fifty,

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Speaker 3: work minus nineteen, veteran minus thirty one, criminal minus thirty,

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Speaker 3: small business minus twenty three, equity plus seven hundred and

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Speaker 3: sixty six, reproductive plus seven hundred and sixty six, LGBT

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Speaker 3: plus one thousand, forty four, guns plus seven to twenty five,

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Speaker 3: climate plus one fifty and white black Latino up eleven thousand,

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Speaker 3: or eleven hundred percent in percentage change in the Democratic platform.

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Speaker 3: By the way, another thing that they note, just to

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Speaker 3: kind of the managerial, bureaucratic creep of the Democratic Party

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Speaker 3: platform is that it just became super long. It was

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Speaker 3: pages and pages and pages long. And what I thought

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Speaker 3: was so instructive. I think I borrowed this from Josh Barrow.

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Speaker 3: One of the best things Trump did for the Republican

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Speaker 3: Party platform is he made it like two pages. He

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Speaker 3: was like, We're going to make America great, safe, and

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Speaker 3: awesome again, and that's it. No policies, like really inside

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Speaker 3: of it, and it was deeply like it was short,

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Speaker 3: it was understandable. What this kind of demonstrated to me

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Speaker 3: was all of those like constituent checkmarks around land, acknowledgements

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Speaker 3: trans LGBT immigration. You could see the job all starting

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Speaker 3: to go down in there, like that was the cultural

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Speaker 3: takeover over any economic message and fundamentally, like that's what

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Speaker 3: went wrong for them. I just did that event with

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Speaker 3: Hassan Piker. Even he agrees with me, he's like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: liberals use this bullshit to get away from talking about

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Speaker 3: even the most like basic problems with Americans, and like

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Speaker 3: that's why they lost.

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Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, Tager, look at what they're trying to

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Speaker 2: do to Zoron, like right now in the New York

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Speaker 2: Prime Like, oh, he's not he doesn't care about Jewish

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Speaker 2: people enough, and you know he's not going to protect

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Speaker 2: you're right, right, you know I mean, they have never

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Speaker 2: stopped doing They're still doing it, even as they're still

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Speaker 2: blaming the let it's the left fault that the Democratic

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Speaker 2: Party went to woke.

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Speaker 4: I've seen Lis Smith talking about this online.

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Speaker 2: And now they're trying to you know, cancel Graham for

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Speaker 2: like his old Reddit posts and his tattoo and cancel

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Speaker 2: Zoron because he was insufficiently like whatever with the you know,

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Speaker 2: didn't say whatever magic words they want him to, or

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Speaker 2: condemn whatever magic freeze they want him to. This is

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Speaker 2: this is the liberal playbook. Now, I'm not going to

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Speaker 2: say so. They're the originators of this direction because they

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Speaker 2: saw that post financial collapse, coming into the later part

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Speaker 2: of Diobama years, you can see this economic discontent, you

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Speaker 2: can see the rise of this like Bernie style populist

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Speaker 2: energy in the party, and they've got to block it.

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Speaker 2: And rather than you know, saying, oh well, we're they

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Speaker 2: realize that just selling the same old centrism isn't going

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Speaker 2: to work. So Hillary in particular, of course Ryan wrote

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Speaker 2: the book on this. Literally, Hillary in particular pioneers I'm

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Speaker 2: going to sort of position myself like I'm actually to

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Speaker 2: the left of Bernie because he doesn't care enough about racism,

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Speaker 2: He doesn't care enough and talk enough about sexism, and

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Speaker 2: breaking up the big Banks isn't going to end racism.

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Speaker 2: And that is what she uses aggressively to defeat Bernie

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Speaker 2: and his movement and tag his followers as toxic Bernie bros.

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Speaker 2: Who are misogynistic and racist and sexist. So they roll

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Speaker 2: out this playbook. Now, then the Bernie Sanders wing adopts

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Speaker 2: a lot of this language as well, so.

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Speaker 4: They sort of join in this project.

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Speaker 2: So then you have a whole of party project that

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Speaker 2: is in this very you know, cultural identity direction. Of course,

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Speaker 2: Bernie always holds on to like his core populist values,

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Speaker 2: but adopts a lot more of this language.

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Speaker 4: But it really does come from liberals trying to defeat

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Speaker 4: the left.

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Speaker 2: And again we know that because there's literally still using

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Speaker 2: that playbook to this day. So I do think I

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Speaker 2: have it's a longer conversation about this whole.

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Speaker 4: Study that they did.

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Speaker 2: It's you know, it's a lot of center, it's like

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Speaker 2: Biden people and whatever that put this out. There's a

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Speaker 2: longer conversation about that. But this chart, in particular, I

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Speaker 2: think is very useful and very instructive over the reason

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Speaker 2: why people rightly felt that this party is really not

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Speaker 2: focused on economic issues, They you know, have abandoned their

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Speaker 2: commitment to delivering for the working class. And you know,

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Speaker 2: are you know, talking about things that are not core

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Speaker 2: to my life and feel disconnected from me, and that

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Speaker 2: I may, you know, really disagree with. People are not

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Speaker 2: crazy to feel that way as the bottom line one

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Speaker 2: hundred percent.

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Speaker 7: You know.

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Speaker 3: The other thing is is if you look at the

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Speaker 3: most unpopular democratic positions from the same graphic, number one

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Speaker 3: is the least the least popular position is abolished the police.

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Speaker 1: Number two is prisons.

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Speaker 3: Number three provide free healthcare to illegals, for lowering the

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Speaker 3: voting age of sixteen, five, cutting police budgets by ten, six,

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Speaker 3: getting rid of tracking in schools, increased refugee admissions ten

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Speaker 3: restore affirmative action in college admissions. Like, all of these

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Speaker 3: are cultural policies.

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Speaker 4: Do you know what I'm saying?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's one of those yeah, no shit that

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Speaker 3: the right wins. I've been trying to say this now

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Speaker 3: on the show for like five years. I'm like, if

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Speaker 3: you're not going to cling to this stuff, you just

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Speaker 3: have no idea how you're able to lose it. You know,

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Speaker 3: there's fascinating new polling as well from the Argument magazine. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I know, cringe centrist, et cetera, but polling is polling,

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Speaker 3: and we're allowed to discuss it. They even say on immigration,

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Speaker 3: the vast majority of the concerns around immigration are driven

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Speaker 3: from crime and from disorderly conduct. That's what people just like,

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Speaker 3: they don't seem to get that disorder and the fact

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Speaker 3: of like encouraging more criminal policy, the fact of lack

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Speaker 3: of control over life is a huge reason why conservatives

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Speaker 3: and right wingers win elections in this country. I have

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Speaker 3: literally been trying to hammer it home for years. Culture

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Speaker 3: is a huge part of it. Everybody says, oh, we

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Speaker 3: shouldn't talk about it, but like, if that's ultimately what

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Speaker 3: becomes probably the sole thing that kind of is really

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Speaker 3: up to people in power, then no shit, we're all

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Speaker 3: going to fight about it. And it's like one of

438
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 3: those where you know, I still don't think that the

439
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,159
Speaker 3: Democratic Party has particularly learned their less or at the

440
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,720
Speaker 3: very least now currently, Like I'm personally skeptical I could

441
00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 3: see it's still going in that direction.

442
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:30,760
Speaker 2: Well, the view I have is that you like I

443
00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,040
Speaker 2: really think that the ANALYSI is where you just Okay,

444
00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,920
Speaker 2: let's pull everybody's position and let's try to locate ourselves.

445
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:36,119
Speaker 4: In the center.

446
00:20:36,160 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 2: Like that is not how Trump went this like thing

447
00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,160
Speaker 2: that just came out, which is overall the messages like

448
00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:45,639
Speaker 2: that's why Democrats need to be more centrist. That's the takeaway,

449
00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:48,440
Speaker 2: which you know, we've get these similar analyzes million times.

450
00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,800
Speaker 2: It reminds me very much of the Autopsy post twenty

451
00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:53,520
Speaker 2: twelve when Mitt Romney lost and there's a similar Republican like,

452
00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:55,199
Speaker 2: we need to move to the center, we got to

453
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:57,880
Speaker 2: do something different on immigration, We're losing Latinos, we're never

454
00:20:57,880 --> 00:20:58,680
Speaker 2: going to win them back.

455
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,600
Speaker 4: And then Trump's comes in as like fuck.

456
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: You, I'm going to be radical on these issues actually

457
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,600
Speaker 2: and completely transforms the electorate because he has a forceful

458
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,720
Speaker 2: narrative and he's not out there polling his but he

459
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 2: takes a lot of positions that are wildly unpopular. But

460
00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,880
Speaker 2: he has a story that he is selling that made

461
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:18,359
Speaker 2: sense to a lot of people, and he sells it

462
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,639
Speaker 2: aggressively and people feel like, oh, and he's going to

463
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: fight for Like I believe that he's going to say

464
00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: the things and do the things that he needs to

465
00:21:24,320 --> 00:21:27,760
Speaker 2: do to you know, right the wrongs and allow the

466
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:30,760
Speaker 2: heroes of his particular story to succeed. You guys know

467
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 2: all the ways that I think that story is bad

468
00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,560
Speaker 2: and wrong, et cetera. But he has one Democrats don't. Instead,

469
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:39,320
Speaker 2: they do these analyzes and they look at the poll

470
00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,560
Speaker 2: and they try to situate themselves in the middle rather

471
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 2: than telling a story in demonstrated people that are going

472
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,760
Speaker 2: to actually fight for something that makes sense, that lands,

473
00:21:50,760 --> 00:21:54,479
Speaker 2: that has a logic that resonates in people's lives. So

474
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,240
Speaker 2: that's why some of these analyzes are really like, it's

475
00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,600
Speaker 2: interesting to get the information, and there's you know, I'm

476
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:02,879
Speaker 2: not saying it's like not useful at all, but I

477
00:22:02,880 --> 00:22:05,880
Speaker 2: think that way of doing politics is actually the way

478
00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 2: the Democratic Party has been trying to do politics, assuming

479
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,240
Speaker 2: the public sentiment of static, assuming this is the way

480
00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,679
Speaker 2: that people actually choose their leaders, and it's just not

481
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:14,959
Speaker 2: how politics actually were.

482
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,960
Speaker 3: Very true, absolutely right, and I'm glad you said it.

483
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:19,399
Speaker 3: I do think though, that what the graphic proves is

484
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 3: that the cultural mentions actually became the dominating thing that

485
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:22,760
Speaker 3: they became.

486
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,120
Speaker 4: Not agree, Yeah, I agree, that's all I'm.

487
00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:28,040
Speaker 3: Really just pointing out is that how much of these

488
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:30,879
Speaker 3: are at albatross around the neck, and because they still

489
00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 3: don't really stand for much, I'm personally still skeptical going

490
00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 3: into the midterm elections that that's happening because again, you know,

491
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 3: at this point, the Tea Party was an organized force.

492
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 3: There were dozens of candidates all across the country. There

493
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 3: was money behind it, and everyone says, oh, that's just

494
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 3: because like I'm sorry, you guys don't understand. Yes, there

495
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,879
Speaker 3: was money behind it. There were literally organic chapters rising

496
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 3: up across the nation, you know, in the same way

497
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 3: that No Kings was. But the problem is that No

498
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:00,200
Speaker 3: Kings doesn't have a policy platform, Like, they don't have

499
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 3: an ass they don't have anything. They're basically just anti Trump.

500
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,480
Speaker 3: And anybody could be anti Trump, from Dan Goldman to

501
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 3: Graham Platner. That doesn't mean anything. So if you don't

502
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:13,080
Speaker 3: stand particularly for something, then how does this work in

503
00:23:13,119 --> 00:23:16,520
Speaker 3: twenty twenty eight when Trump is gone or if he's

504
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,520
Speaker 3: not running or whatever. Again, how does that manifest right

505
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 3: into And that'll be the true battle. And I'm just

506
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 3: not sure even with these Tea Party candidates, like what

507
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:27,920
Speaker 3: do they really stand for you could be a Platner.

508
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 3: You could be I mean, there's going to be some

509
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,520
Speaker 3: Democrat out there that wins in an R plus twenty

510
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:35,480
Speaker 3: five district Span Burger, Right, you could argue that she

511
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 3: could be whatever.

512
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,280
Speaker 2: Like a banner performing though yeah, yeah right.

513
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 3: But it's one of those things you could really technically say.

514
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,000
Speaker 2: It CIA Democrat. Yeah, oh, they'll definitely say it. But

515
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 2: I mean, well, we'll move on. This conversation will continue.

516
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:51,639
Speaker 2: But I think Zoran is proof point number one. I

517
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 2: think the midterms will be proof point number two. We'll

518
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 2: see what happens there, what type of candidates are able

519
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 2: to come out of primaries. You know, if Graham beats

520
00:23:59,280 --> 00:23:59,919
Speaker 2: the sitting.

521
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 4: Governor, it's going to be huge.

522
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,440
Speaker 2: That would be a huge indication, you know, Abdulah Sayat

523
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 2: of course in Michigan is another one we're watching closely.

524
00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,440
Speaker 2: You know what happens with with Showycott. There's a bunch

525
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: of different candidates like this that are going to be

526
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,120
Speaker 2: very interesting to watch. So that'll be another test point.

527
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:15,880
Speaker 2: And then but the ultimate test will be of course

528
00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty eight picking Minuts leader.

529
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, part it is going to be twenty twenty eight.

530
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 3: By the way, last thing all eyes New Jersey. I'm

531
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,440
Speaker 3: very interested in New Jersey in that governor election. There's

532
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:26,680
Speaker 3: a tie for one point right now. If Republican wins

533
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 3: in the state of New Jersey, that's actually going to

534
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,560
Speaker 3: be crazy.

535
00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 2: Well, friends, we have arrived. It is time to fully

536
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,280
Speaker 2: sound the alarm about the midterm elections and whether voters

537
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,960
Speaker 2: will actually get to have their say in anything approaching

538
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,640
Speaker 2: a fair or meaningful way. So, in a recent interview,

539
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 2: Steve Bannon understandably got a lot of attention for insisting

540
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 2: Trump would be present again in twenty twenty because he

541
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:52,639
Speaker 2: is a quote vehicle of divine providence. But in that

542
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 2: same interview, Bannon also had something to say about the

543
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:58,360
Speaker 2: US Congress, which is of course directly relevant for the

544
00:24:58,400 --> 00:24:59,280
Speaker 2: midterm elections.

545
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 8: I think that to avoid actual civil conflict, which I

546
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 8: think you're seeing right now at the beginning, at the

547
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:10,840
Speaker 8: harbinger of it, if you want to stop that, you

548
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,160
Speaker 8: have to bind together tighter. We as a populist nationalist movement,

549
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,280
Speaker 8: as a mega movement, we need to do that.

550
00:25:17,400 --> 00:25:18,679
Speaker 1: Like the redistricting fights.

551
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:20,200
Speaker 8: We need to get This is why I was down

552
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 8: in Texas. We need to we need to get the

553
00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:27,239
Speaker 8: House in a situation that is permanently defendable by the

554
00:25:27,240 --> 00:25:30,720
Speaker 8: Mega movement. Right, So it's a blocking mechanism and take that.

555
00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 8: Like I said, you move a maximalist strategy with a

556
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,560
Speaker 8: sense of urgency.

557
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:38,480
Speaker 1: And you seize the institutions. And that's what we're doing

558
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: right now.

559
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 9: I don't see. I don't see how that is a

560
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,840
Speaker 9: recipe for diffusing this crisis. I think that what happens

561
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,119
Speaker 9: is when people feel shut out of power and interest

562
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 9: groups cannot get representation and cannot get an input into

563
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,879
Speaker 9: the way that policy is made. That's precisely when you

564
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 9: end up with civil war.

565
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: Disagree, because I think you'll see.

566
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 2: Seize the institutions, get the House in a situation where

567
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 2: it is permanently defendable by the MAGA movement. So those

568
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: Bannon just blowing smoke here. After all, he's not Trump.

569
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,560
Speaker 2: He's not a Trump official either. In fact, if you

570
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,919
Speaker 2: look though at everything that Trump administration is saying and doing,

571
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 2: it is undeniably clear they are in the midst of

572
00:26:15,359 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 2: executing a sophisticated plot in an attempt to rig the

573
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:22,679
Speaker 2: midterm elections in favor of Republicans. This plot has several

574
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,439
Speaker 2: different elements, and of course no guarantees of success, but

575
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 2: we need to grapple with what we are facing right now,

576
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:30,480
Speaker 2: so I'm going to take time to go through each

577
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 2: of the various elements. Top line, though, first element is personnel.

578
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:38,040
Speaker 2: Federal government divisions dealing with election, cybersecurity, and civil rights

579
00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 2: violation has been gutted and replaced with twenty twenty election

580
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 2: deniers from the Stop the Steal Fraud. Second Executive Orders,

581
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 2: Trump assigned several executive orders seeking to consolidate control of

582
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,719
Speaker 2: election mechanics, voter rules, and even election machines in his hands.

583
00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:54,600
Speaker 2: A Republican operative, by the way, now owns dominion voting.

584
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 2: Third jerrymandering. Trump is pressuring Republican states to redraw maps

585
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 2: to block out Dems, and is getting a major assist

586
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 2: from the Supreme Court.

587
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:04,880
Speaker 4: Most likely forth threats.

588
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 2: Trump is sending election monitors to California, New Jersey, deploying

589
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 2: National Guard in Blue cities, and threatening to invoke the

590
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:14,360
Speaker 2: Insurrection Act. All of this is occurring as he repeatedly

591
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 2: insists elections are rigged on documented immigrants vote illegally, and

592
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: mail in ballots are fraudulent. Taken together, you can see

593
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 2: they are serious. They are operating on a variety of fronts.

594
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,840
Speaker 2: They are unwilling to accept the verdict of voters. So

595
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 2: let's start in depth with personnel. According to The New

596
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 2: York Times, Trump has installed a number of stop the

597
00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 2: Steel wackos in key election related roles after gutting departments

598
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:40,879
Speaker 2: which previously dealt with election integrity and rights. So several

599
00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:43,119
Speaker 2: of these new officials come from the so called Election

600
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,080
Speaker 2: Integrity Network. This is a far right group at the

601
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: heart of inventing lies during Trump's effort to steal the

602
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,720
Speaker 2: election in twenty twenty. Now in the newly in the administration,

603
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 2: in the newly created election integrity position at the Department

604
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,000
Speaker 2: of Homeland Security, Trump is installed a woman by the

605
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,879
Speaker 2: name of Heather Honey. She has a stop the Steel

606
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 2: nutt who immediately jumped on official government calls when she

607
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 2: was appointed to spread wild conspiracies about rigged voting machines.

608
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 2: Prior to her appointment, she floated invoking a national emergency

609
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 2: in order to gain control over state voting. Another whack o,

610
00:28:17,240 --> 00:28:19,600
Speaker 2: a guy named Kurt Olsen, has also been brought into

611
00:28:19,600 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 2: the Trump administration to investigate these supposedly stolen twenty twenty election.

612
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 2: Just in case you were wondering if they had given

613
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: up on those old lies, Olsen helped cook up my

614
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,639
Speaker 2: Pillow CEO Mike Lindell's twenty twenty rigged election delusions. In

615
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 2: addition to them, you've got the former Dacab County Georgia

616
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,440
Speaker 2: Republican chair. Marcy McCarthy is her name. She was appointed

617
00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,320
Speaker 2: to be Director of Public Affairs at the Cybersecurity and

618
00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 2: Infrastructure Security Agency or SIZA. Marcy was at the heart

619
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 2: of spreading Georgia voting machine conspiracies back in twenty twenty,

620
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 2: but perhaps even more critically, she was involved in purging

621
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,680
Speaker 2: thousands of legitimate voters from the roles in Georgia in

622
00:28:57,720 --> 00:29:00,640
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four, in an effort that resulted in tens

623
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 2: of thousands of voters losing their ability to vote in

624
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,600
Speaker 2: what appeared to be a racially biased manner. Now that

625
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,479
Speaker 2: experience of Marci's might be particularly relevant when you consider

626
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: the election related executive orders that Trump has been signing.

627
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: So Back in March, Trump signed executive order mandating more

628
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:21,520
Speaker 2: string and nineties recertifications of voting machines under new rules

629
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: that literally none of the existing machines currently comply with,

630
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,880
Speaker 2: and perhaps most troubling, this executive order granted Elon's DOGE

631
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 2: access to voter roles for quote unquote fraud audits. Now,

632
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 2: lest you think that with Elon's departure this aspect would

633
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,920
Speaker 2: be dropped, the Trump Justice Department is demanding that states

634
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 2: provide them with their voter roles, an action that many,

635
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 2: even red states, have actually resisted. So far, the Trump

636
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 2: doj has sent demands to thirty states already, with intent

637
00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 2: to send to all fifty. What's more, they've already sued

638
00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,680
Speaker 2: eight different states for refusing to hand over their voter

639
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: roles so far. An additional executive order seeks to end

640
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,560
Speaker 2: mail in balloting, which of course is used more often

641
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 2: at this point by Democrats, and reiterates the commitment to

642
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 2: get rid of every existing voting machine. About those voting machines,

643
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 2: by the way, you remember, are all the furor around

644
00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 2: dominion voting machines supposedly rigged in twenty twenty by the

645
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,560
Speaker 2: ghost of Hugo Chavez or some such nonsense. Well, that

646
00:30:16,680 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: company has now been bought by a Trump ally. The

647
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: former Republican Elections director in Saint Louis and in the

648
00:30:24,640 --> 00:30:27,360
Speaker 2: announcement of the purchase, this guy made a point of

649
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: nodding towards that Venezuela conspiracy and of saying he was

650
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: going to prioritize complying with Trump's executive orders.

651
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 4: Dominion is being renamed Liberty Vote.

652
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 7: Now.

653
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 2: Now, perhaps this guy is just trying to rebrand, trying

654
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: to pander to the conspiracy nuts in the NAGA base,

655
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,840
Speaker 2: But half of the voting machines in the country are

656
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 2: Dominion and they are now under partisan ownership. Next, we've got,

657
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 2: of course, the mass jerry mandering push coming directly from

658
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 2: the White House. Three states Missouri, North Carolina, and Texas

659
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 2: they've already drawn new maps and more heavily favored Republicans.

660
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 2: Five more states are considering following suit, and a sign

661
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 2: of what a priority this is for the regime, Jade

662
00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 2: Vance has visited Indiana twice to pressure lawmakers to draw

663
00:31:08,080 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 2: new maps, and Trump spoke directly with Indiana Republicans earlier

664
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:15,719
Speaker 2: this month. Just yesterday, Governor Brown called an emergency session

665
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 2: to consider the President's demand. In addition, the Supreme Court

666
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: looks set to deliver a major assist on this front,

667
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 2: striking on parts of the Voting Rights Act, which would

668
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 2: plausibly allow Republicans to eliminate roughly a dozen seats currently

669
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 2: held by Democrats. Let's go ahead and put this chart

670
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 2: up on the screen. So Nate Cone did this analysis,

671
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 2: and he found that the upshot of all of this gerrymanter,

672
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: when you take into account democratic attempts to retaliate in

673
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,680
Speaker 2: places like California, is that it could take Democrats winning

674
00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: the popular vote by as much as five points or

675
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: six points in order to take back the House. Five

676
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: point popular vote wins, those are the stuff of modern

677
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,280
Speaker 2: day waves. We're talking to Obama wave in two thousand

678
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 2: and eight, the Tea Party wave in twenty ten. This

679
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 2: lanted playing field, it doesn't make a House majority impossible

680
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 2: the bull for Democrats, but it does make it very,

681
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,520
Speaker 2: very difficult. And that is, of course, before you consider

682
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 2: all the other efforts that I'm tracking here today to

683
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: shape who can vote and how. Now, the last category

684
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 2: of election rigging activities is both the most dominant and

685
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 2: the most vague, and that is the threats which are

686
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 2: emanating from this White House. Under this category, I placed

687
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: Trump's consistent rhetoric about stolen elections, his use and abuse

688
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: of the military and his promise to send election monitors

689
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:31,880
Speaker 2: into California and into New Jersey. Just yesterday, Trump posted

690
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,840
Speaker 2: this on True Social He said, what's worse the NBA

691
00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 2: players cheating at cards and probably much else, or the

692
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:42,400
Speaker 2: Democrats cheating on elections? The twenty twenty presidential election being

693
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 2: rigged and stolen is a far bigger scandal. Look what

694
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: happened to our country when a crooke and moron became

695
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 2: our president.

696
00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 4: We now know everything.

697
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 2: I hope the DOJ pursues this with as much gusto

698
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: as befitting the biggest scandal in American history. If not,

699
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 2: it will happen again, including the upcoming mid terms.

700
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 4: No mail in or early.

701
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 2: Voting, Yes to voter ID watch. How totally dishonest The

702
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 2: California prop vote is millions of ballots being shipped. Get

703
00:33:10,040 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 2: smart Republicans before it is too late. So consistent with

704
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: this baseless claim that California is rigging the ballot initiative

705
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 2: to determine whether they can redistrict, Trump is announced he

706
00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: is sending DOJ election monitors into both California and New

707
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,600
Speaker 2: Jersey as a blatant intimidation tactic, and of course as

708
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 2: you know, he has sent the National Guard into multiple

709
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 2: Blue cities and is flirting with invoking the Insurrection Act,

710
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: and Secretary of Warped Hegsath won't deny the development of

711
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 2: a rapid response military force that could be deployed in

712
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:43,360
Speaker 2: all fifty states before the midterms.

713
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:48,600
Speaker 6: Secretary hig Seth sir. A memo circulating on social media

714
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:52,760
Speaker 6: details the establishment of a National Guard response force that's

715
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 6: going to be trained in crowded control and civil unrest

716
00:33:56,400 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 6: and deployed in all fifty states by April twenty twenty six.

717
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 6: Can you verify the authenticity of that memo and do

718
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 6: you have any more information on the operations.

719
00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:08,480
Speaker 10: I'm not going to answer particulars on something that may

720
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,879
Speaker 10: be in the planning process, but we definitely do have

721
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 10: multiple layers of National Guard response forces. Whether it's in

722
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:18,880
Speaker 10: each state, whether it's regionally, whether it's Title ten active duty,

723
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,960
Speaker 10: whether it's Washington DC. We've got a lot of different

724
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 10: ways that constitutionally and legally we can employ Title ten

725
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 10: and Title thirty two forces, and we will do so

726
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 10: when necessary.

727
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 2: So again, just so we're clear, we're talking here about

728
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:33,520
Speaker 2: a fifty state rapid response force that just happens to

729
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 2: be in place in time for the midterms. Does all

730
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,479
Speaker 2: of this sound crazy, I don't know. Guys using national

731
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 2: emergencies to do wild stuff is kind of just how

732
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 2: this administration operates.

733
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 4: That's their whole shit. Not to mention, Trump is.

734
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 2: The guy who literally already tried to steal an election,

735
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:49,520
Speaker 2: and they already hired a lady who floated using a.

736
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 4: National emergency to control elections.

737
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,120
Speaker 2: By the way, they've also got a pretty powerful motive,

738
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 2: and more crimes they commit, more backlash they stoke, the

739
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,959
Speaker 2: more existential it is for them to hold onto power

740
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:03,399
Speaker 2: and never let go. You don't think Steven Miller knows

741
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 2: Democrats want them to spend the rest of his life

742
00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 2: rotting in prison. The Trump administration are engaged in an

743
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:11,800
Speaker 2: all out war against their political adversaries, an attempt to

744
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: seize long term control. That's what Bannon means when he

745
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 2: says seize the institutions and create a permanent, defendable MAGA majority.

746
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,720
Speaker 4: And what's to stop them at this point.

747
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 2: The Supreme Court, which is handed them twenty three out

748
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 2: of twenty eight decisions on the shadow docket. The media,

749
00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 2: which is like being all bought up by the Zionist

750
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,840
Speaker 2: pro Trump ellisons or threatened with lawsuits to comply. The

751
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:36,680
Speaker 2: Republican House majority. Come on, don't make me laugh. How

752
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 2: about the Democratic House minority. That'll make me cry. It

753
00:35:40,120 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 2: is ultimately on us. We need to understand what's happening.

754
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 2: We need to track it. We need to educate our

755
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 2: fellow citizens who may or may not share our political beliefs,

756
00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: but I hope are at least somewhat interested in continuing

757
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: the very imperfect experiment that we have here with democracy,

758
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,520
Speaker 2: because whatever the public is willing to accept, that is

759
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 2: exactly what we are.

760
00:35:59,320 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 4: Going to get.

761
00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 2: And so sober, lengthy and a little tedious. Thank you

762
00:36:03,520 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: for bearing with me, but I.

763
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,320
Speaker 3: Want to put all together, and if you want to

764
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 3: hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber

765
00:36:09,719 --> 00:36:15,800
Speaker 3: today at breakingpoints dot com. Joining us now is Pablo

766
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 3: Torre a. He is a journalist. He is the host

767
00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 3: of Pablo Torre Finds Out. He is taking the sports

768
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:23,560
Speaker 3: world by storm and for our purposes. He is an

769
00:36:23,560 --> 00:36:25,919
Speaker 3: expert and one of the few actually doing some deep

770
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:27,920
Speaker 3: dives in the sports world. So Pablo, thank you so

771
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 3: much for joining us. A lot of respectful of course,

772
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:31,319
Speaker 3: of course, thanks for having me.

773
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 11: I have too much to say, probably about all the

774
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 11: things they are interested in, but happy to try.

775
00:36:35,440 --> 00:36:36,960
Speaker 1: Well, we want to hear all of that.

776
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 3: I have personally just watched with amazement at the coverage

777
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,560
Speaker 3: of this NBA gambling scandal. Let's go ahead and put

778
00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,479
Speaker 3: this up here on the screen, some of your own

779
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 3: reporting that we can share with our audience. I'm sure

780
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,839
Speaker 3: they've heard a little bit here about the initial indictments

781
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 3: in the NBA Chauncey and the poker games quote. A

782
00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:59,640
Speaker 3: number of former pro athletes played at a private poker

783
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 3: games organized by those indicted by the DOJ and Operation

784
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 3: Royal Flush. One of them was Kevin Garnett in twenty nineteen.

785
00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 3: There are a number of other names who you list, Pablo.

786
00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 3: Why don't you break some of that down and also

787
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 3: just tell us how existential this is to the NBA.

788
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 11: Yeah, so big picture first, and I'll tell you about

789
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:18,959
Speaker 11: some of the names that I've been reporting that haven't

790
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 11: been in the indictment for reasons that I think makes

791
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 11: sense and are also a bit chin scratching. The story

792
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:26,319
Speaker 11: here to me is that the NBA set up an

793
00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 11: incentive structure. One of the first things that Adam Silver

794
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 11: did as commissioner of the league, and he was hailed

795
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 11: almost welcomed as a savior of the sport in part

796
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:36,200
Speaker 11: because he did two things. Number One, he orchestrated the

797
00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:40,080
Speaker 11: transfer of power from Donald Sterling about racist Band for

798
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 11: Life to Steve Balmer, another character I've been investigating in

799
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 11: a separate story which I have too much to say

800
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,520
Speaker 11: about with Aspiration and the Clippers and the salary caps

801
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 11: are convention that I've been reporting on. But the other

802
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 11: thing Adam Silver did that fall was right an op

803
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 11: ed in the New York Times in which he said

804
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,200
Speaker 11: gambling should be legalized and regulated.

805
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 1: He was the first commissioner from about that.

806
00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,000
Speaker 11: This was one of his first acts in terms of

807
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,879
Speaker 11: taking over the sport. And so that incentive structure, which

808
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:07,640
Speaker 11: we've seen happen, and you guys have covered it as

809
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 11: well as anybody infiltrating the entirety of sports and sports

810
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,279
Speaker 11: media has created these incentives in which there is a

811
00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 11: menu of almost micro bets which now carry legal markets

812
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 11: for prop bets like unders on Terry Rogier, meaning you

813
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 11: can bet on the underperformance of an obscure player like

814
00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 11: John Tay Porter, who has since been banned for life,

815
00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 11: by the way, and so all of this is fruit

816
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 11: from that tree. All of it is fruit from the

817
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,879
Speaker 11: Adam Silver op ed to Johntay Porter group chat and

818
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 11: now banned for life. Scandal into what happens when inside

819
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 11: information that could be seemingly microscopic in its scope. Will

820
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,480
Speaker 11: this player play in this game? Will this guy leave

821
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,560
Speaker 11: this game because he is in coordination with you, perhaps,

822
00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:57,840
Speaker 11: according to the indictment, trying to also profit off of

823
00:38:57,880 --> 00:39:01,959
Speaker 11: those incentives. All of this comes together in a way

824
00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 11: that feels, if not existential, I think the story of

825
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 11: the era of money in sports that we live in.

826
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 11: And so Kevin Garnett Tylou, the head coach of the Clippers,

827
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,319
Speaker 11: also a character who's been spotted at these games, one

828
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 11: game in particular April twenty nineteen where Chuncey Billups was

829
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 11: Antonio Gates, former pro football player Hall of Fame player.

830
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:26,920
Speaker 11: I'm not alleging that those guys were of the Chauncey

831
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,959
Speaker 11: Billups level in terms of what they knew or did

832
00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 11: not know, but they were used as Wales face cards.

833
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 11: The government calls them to draw in betters in the

834
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 11: poker world, which happens to be connected deeply with, of course,

835
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 11: the world of sports.

836
00:39:41,640 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 2: Betting, right, And let's talk a little bit more about

837
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 2: the specifics here, because some of the specifics are wild.

838
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 4: Do you say, maybe those guys aren't the level.

839
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 2: Of understanding potentially alleged of Chauncey Billups, who appears to

840
00:39:53,440 --> 00:39:56,359
Speaker 2: have had knowledge that the games were rigged. These games

841
00:39:56,400 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 2: were being set up by some of the sort of

842
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:02,759
Speaker 2: classic New y mafia families. So give us some of

843
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,200
Speaker 2: the details about what was going on with these games

844
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: and the way that they had them rigged so that

845
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 2: they were raking in seven million dollars in the context

846
00:40:12,680 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 2: of these rigged poker games.

847
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:17,080
Speaker 11: Yeah, so the connective tissue between these two indictments, and

848
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 11: there are terrible puns all over the story by the way, guys,

849
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,560
Speaker 11: So it's Operation Royal Flush for the poker stuff, is

850
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,799
Speaker 11: Operation nothing but Bet for the sports betting stuff. But

851
00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:29,080
Speaker 11: the reason I went back to the johntay Porter scandal

852
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:32,320
Speaker 11: is because the characters who overlap some of those names,

853
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 11: you know, and I reported on this in July because

854
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 11: they were on that group chat with John tay Porter.

855
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:40,879
Speaker 11: These are all poker guys poker associated, guys who turn

856
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 11: out in one case to be also mob associated. And

857
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 11: so in these poker games, Crystal, we're talking about X

858
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,799
Speaker 11: ray machines that are hiding under the tables. We're talking

859
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:52,479
Speaker 11: about sunglasses that can read marked cards. We're talking about

860
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:56,640
Speaker 11: rigged deck shuffling machines. That is the allegation, in particular

861
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,200
Speaker 11: to Chauncey Billups in that April twenty nineteen game in

862
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:03,120
Speaker 11: Las Vegas. We're talking about technology in which people who

863
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 11: were conspiring to rig poker games using NBA players as

864
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 11: co conspirators as wales to draw in the competition. We're also,

865
00:41:13,040 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 11: according to these and two indictments in league with Chauncey

866
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:20,000
Speaker 11: Billups identified as co conspirator number eight in the sports

867
00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:25,839
Speaker 11: betting indictment, to also get information around which players on

868
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 11: his team that he is the current head coach for

869
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 11: the Portland Trailblazers, would be playing in a game. And

870
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 11: so organized crime is an ancient story when it comes

871
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 11: to secret poker games. We've seen a zillion movies along

872
00:41:38,160 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 11: those lines. What's different is that there is now a

873
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:47,400
Speaker 11: legal sports betting market in which those same characters, maybe

874
00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,960
Speaker 11: because according to the indictment, and according to my reporting,

875
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,560
Speaker 11: you have athletes who've always loved gambling and card games.

876
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,759
Speaker 11: Also an ancient non surprise might be in debt and

877
00:42:00,200 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 11: or in cooperation with some of the unsavory characters that

878
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,319
Speaker 11: you know Cashotel referred to as LaCOSA nostra, which is

879
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,520
Speaker 11: the literal Italian model.

880
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:10,360
Speaker 2: And isn't that what happened with John Tay Porter, that

881
00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: he was in debt to these guys, And that's part

882
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 2: of how this all goes down.

883
00:42:15,520 --> 00:42:18,720
Speaker 11: Yeah, the reporting that I've been doing suggests that Johntay

884
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:22,279
Speaker 11: Porter got into debt with a man named Amar Awade,

885
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 11: who is identified in these indictments as a guy named

886
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:31,239
Speaker 11: Flapper Poker or Flappy aka a mob associate. And the

887
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 11: question of and again this is ancient, what happens when

888
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 11: you get in debt to someone like that. They don't

889
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 11: just want the repayment of the money. They say, I

890
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 11: have another way that you can help us out. And

891
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 11: Johntay Porter, a truly obscure backup that no one would

892
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 11: have known otherwise, ended up according to exhaustive group chat records,

893
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,319
Speaker 11: he ended up taking himself out of games, letting them

894
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:53,839
Speaker 11: know ahead of time Sager, and that ended up being

895
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 11: this thing that blew up the NBA last year.

896
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,360
Speaker 3: Yes, Pablo, what I want to focus on is to

897
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 3: zoom out on the system because, and let's put this

898
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 3: up here on the screen from Politico, Adam Silver is

899
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 3: now facing calls to come before Congress. By the way,

900
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 3: he should, because one of the things that you and

901
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:11,760
Speaker 3: I talked about previously, Pablo, is that the NBA cleared

902
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,560
Speaker 3: Terry Razier of all wrongdoing. They did an internal investigation,

903
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:17,839
Speaker 3: they allowed him to play, and they said, hey, we

904
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:19,400
Speaker 3: did an investigation.

905
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 1: He did nothing wrong.

906
00:43:20,200 --> 00:43:22,720
Speaker 3: When the Department of Justice now comes out and says, actually,

907
00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:26,200
Speaker 3: that's completely false, how can we ever have any faith

908
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 3: in the word of the NBA, of the NFL, of

909
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: these private sports leagues which are directly in league with

910
00:43:33,239 --> 00:43:36,080
Speaker 3: the betting companies, Like what does this tell us about

911
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:37,440
Speaker 3: Adam Silver's credibility?

912
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 1: At this point?

913
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 11: The conflict of interest here seems very obvious. And for

914
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:44,359
Speaker 11: anybody who's not a sports fan, keep that lens of

915
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:47,080
Speaker 11: what should a normal business do here if they're faced

916
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 11: with any scandal in this case in sports in the NBA,

917
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 11: it turns out, you investigate yourself and you therefore have

918
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 11: the ability to turn the dial on how big of

919
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 11: a public scandal is this, and of course the NBA

920
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 11: scene under Adam Silver, I mean, look, they have taken

921
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,719
Speaker 11: the money on the table at the expense of what

922
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 11: I would call various risks to its brand, and I'll

923
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 11: just keep it at that level because I want to

924
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,440
Speaker 11: speak the language of what these corporations and sports and

925
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 11: commissioners speak. They want to minimize the scandal and damage

926
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:21,720
Speaker 11: to their brand. The bet that Adam Silver has made

927
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 11: is that by getting into business with legalized gambling, in

928
00:44:25,680 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 11: fact advocating for it, he could make the cost benefit

929
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 11: analysis work, such as the benefits the money on the

930
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,480
Speaker 11: table are worth that roll of the dice, so to speak.

931
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:38,400
Speaker 11: And so when it comes to what did they know

932
00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 11: and when did they know it? The NBA I talked

933
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:44,640
Speaker 11: to Terry Roseier's lawyer who told us they cleared us.

934
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 11: The NBA cleared Terry rose years why who was able

935
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:49,920
Speaker 11: to play and get traded to the Miami Heat, by

936
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,640
Speaker 11: the way, and a transaction that did result in an

937
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 11: eight figure salary pay out from the Miami Heat and

938
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,760
Speaker 11: a first round pick, which is, for those not in sports,

939
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 11: a big deal.

940
00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 1: And then the question is, so why didn't.

941
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:04,479
Speaker 11: You the NBA the heater complaining why didn't you tell

942
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 11: us what you were looking into? Why didn't you keep

943
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 11: the investigation going if in fact a federal government was

944
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 11: going to continue it and according to my sources, never

945
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:17,560
Speaker 11: cleared Rogier, as is obvious based on the indictments, And

946
00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:19,959
Speaker 11: so you have in this case uniquely, I would say,

947
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 11: a body with subpoena power in the government, that has

948
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:27,280
Speaker 11: the ability to buy virtue of their interest in the story,

949
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 11: hold the NBA to account when it comes to what

950
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 11: did they want to know and when did they know it?

951
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,439
Speaker 11: In most cases in sports, Zaga, as you know, there

952
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:41,880
Speaker 11: isn't that level of check. There are journalists, right, So

953
00:45:42,080 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 11: that's what ostensibly I am trying to do. But in

954
00:45:44,920 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 11: the public perception, when you have federal indictments, it puts

955
00:45:49,719 --> 00:45:53,760
Speaker 11: with a real strong underline what is actually the conflict

956
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 11: of interest to play?

957
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so just for people who you know, maybe

958
00:45:56,840 --> 00:45:58,800
Speaker 2: don't know the incidentuts of the case, what Terry Rogier

959
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:01,800
Speaker 2: is accused of is basically like faking a foot injury

960
00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,359
Speaker 2: in the middle of a game, coming out early. And

961
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 2: then you know, people who ve bet that he would

962
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: underperform his normal statistics, and you don't know if I

963
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 2: think hundreds of thousands of dollars were able to cash

964
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 2: in because he planned to go out early and plan

965
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 2: to sort of like not throw the game, but throw

966
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: his own statistics. Which raises the question how much of

967
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 2: this how much of the problem here is with these

968
00:46:21,440 --> 00:46:23,879
Speaker 2: prop bets, right, with the ability to bet on these

969
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 2: very specific outcomes, because then a player doesn't have to

970
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:29,200
Speaker 2: throw a whole game, doesn't have to underperform a little bit,

971
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:31,279
Speaker 2: or just have to do you know, something that you like,

972
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,759
Speaker 2: whatever it is that you're able to bet on. How

973
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 2: much of the problem is is just those prop bets?

974
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:41,759
Speaker 2: And also, like, what's your sense of how widespread this is?

975
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 2: Are we talking a few bad apples or is this

976
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 2: just like you know, during the Barry Bond's era of baseball,

977
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 2: where it's just like, oh, yeah, everybody's juicing.

978
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:51,480
Speaker 4: That's just how the game is at this point.

979
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:53,959
Speaker 11: Yeah, That's why I framed it in terms of incentives,

980
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,760
Speaker 11: because what is happening is that the legal betting market

981
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 11: and the scandals that crop up have all been around

982
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:03,920
Speaker 11: prop bets hitting on unders.

983
00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:06,000
Speaker 1: So just for people who don't know how it used

984
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 1: to be.

985
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 11: If you ever watched a mob movie, right like back

986
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 11: in the day, you would need to fix a game

987
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 11: by fixing the outcome of the game, meaning you need

988
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 11: five players on one team to sort of coordinate in

989
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,520
Speaker 11: some fashion such that you actually impacted who won or lost.

990
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: That's what typically bookies.

991
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:23,360
Speaker 11: The guy on your corner in your neighborhood in a

992
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 11: dark alley, that's what they would allow you to bet

993
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 11: on in this era, because there's this exhaustive, almost like

994
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 11: cheesecake factory length menu of like, wait a minute, I

995
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 11: can bet on pretty much anything.

996
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 1: There are a zillion pages here.

997
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 4: What colored dildo gets thrown on the floor.

998
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 3: I've been sounding the alarm on this forever, Pablo, And

999
00:47:43,880 --> 00:47:45,319
Speaker 3: you know, one of the things it kind of gets

1000
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:47,799
Speaker 3: to me is you just talked about journalism. This is

1001
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:49,560
Speaker 3: a main thing I really wanted to talk to you about.

1002
00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:52,440
Speaker 3: You spent your life at Sports Illustrated and at ESPN.

1003
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 3: Now you're independent. You are more famous than ever before.

1004
00:47:56,520 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 3: I see your name dropped on every major sports podcast

1005
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 3: in the country, Pat McAfee, everybody else. But there seems

1006
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,960
Speaker 3: to always be a hesitance, and it seems to me,

1007
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:09,920
Speaker 3: you can tell me your observation that they are desperate

1008
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 3: to preserve their relationship to the league, to the NBA.

1009
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,319
Speaker 3: They're afraid of platforming or emphasizing what you're saying, even

1010
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 3: though you're one of the few doing actually revelatory journalism

1011
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 3: in sports. So I'm curious if you could talk about

1012
00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 3: that dynamic, like how difficult it is for an ESPN

1013
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:30,160
Speaker 3: or people connected fundamentally to a private organization that has

1014
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 3: no obligation to give you anything to some of the

1015
00:48:32,520 --> 00:48:34,439
Speaker 3: work that you're putting out there, and why you found

1016
00:48:34,440 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: so much success in a short.

1017
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: Period of time.

1018
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:39,680
Speaker 11: Yeah, again, I point to incentives. Right, So I worked

1019
00:48:39,719 --> 00:48:42,480
Speaker 11: at ESPN. I was familiar in that era with a

1020
00:48:42,560 --> 00:48:47,240
Speaker 11: company in which there was literal billion dollar business dealing

1021
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,920
Speaker 11: with the leagues directly, but at the same time an

1022
00:48:49,960 --> 00:48:53,000
Speaker 11: attempt to fund a newsroom that had some sort of

1023
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,480
Speaker 11: firewall in between. Right. Any media organization of a certain

1024
00:48:56,560 --> 00:48:59,360
Speaker 11: scale is familiar with that dynamic. What is so different

1025
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,960
Speaker 11: now is at the pretense of needing to support journalism.

1026
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 11: And again, I'll use brand equity as the motive for

1027
00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:10,839
Speaker 11: any company who wants to consider this, that branding priority

1028
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 11: the whole idea of we need to plausibly be a

1029
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:18,200
Speaker 11: news room, an actual news gathering operation that has sharply

1030
00:49:18,280 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 11: declined as the sources of money have shifted, in this

1031
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,640
Speaker 11: case to the legalized gambling operators. And so what I

1032
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 11: found is that I didn't set out to do investigative

1033
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 11: adversarial journalism that would take me to the stories that

1034
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:36,160
Speaker 11: are most directly in conflict with commissioners of the sports

1035
00:49:36,200 --> 00:49:39,239
Speaker 11: that I otherwise cover and love and enjoy as a fan.

1036
00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:40,520
Speaker 1: I did not set out to.

1037
00:49:40,480 --> 00:49:43,920
Speaker 11: Be the turd in some commissioner's punch bowl, frankly, but

1038
00:49:44,120 --> 00:49:47,440
Speaker 11: the race that I am apparently competing in is almost

1039
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 11: devoid of other competitors. And so what's happened is that

1040
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,840
Speaker 11: I'm the guy who's just willing to do it, and

1041
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 11: I am obsessedive about wanting to get it right. I

1042
00:49:57,080 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 11: come again from a fact checking background and a journalistic

1043
00:49:59,719 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 11: backg ground, and we request comment and everybody gets a

1044
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:05,000
Speaker 11: chance to weigh in. We provide all of those opportunities

1045
00:50:05,040 --> 00:50:09,040
Speaker 11: as a quote unquote mainstream news organization would. But the

1046
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 11: fact is, I'm willing to get on bad terms when

1047
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,120
Speaker 11: it comes to the access that otherwise gets granted and

1048
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 11: the partnerships that are in play. If you're a sports

1049
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 11: talking head and your goal in life is to be

1050
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:23,920
Speaker 11: on a set in which you talk about any of

1051
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 11: these sports, you should be aware that the people who

1052
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:31,000
Speaker 11: ultimately have to green light your inclusion at that table

1053
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:32,719
Speaker 11: sit in the league.

1054
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,720
Speaker 1: Office, which is to say, they.

1055
00:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 11: Don't want people who are going to actually jeopardize their

1056
00:50:38,200 --> 00:50:42,719
Speaker 11: business involved in their business. And likewise, if you're covering,

1057
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,000
Speaker 11: for instance, Los Angeles Clippers and your day to day

1058
00:50:46,040 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 11: livelihood is access to games, you're signing up for a

1059
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,680
Speaker 11: way harder life if you decide to stick a toe

1060
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:55,480
Speaker 11: into the stuff that I'm doing. And so I'm not naive,

1061
00:50:55,520 --> 00:50:58,879
Speaker 11: and I don't blame other journalists, reporters, whatever the term

1062
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 11: is you want to use to discretion. I have the

1063
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 11: different jobs that we do. I get the incentives again

1064
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,200
Speaker 11: at play. I just think we're living in this desert,

1065
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,240
Speaker 11: especially in sports media, but certainly broadly. You can speak

1066
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:13,160
Speaker 11: to every facet of journalism across America now, but there's

1067
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:15,880
Speaker 11: a desert when it comes to the quote unquote toy department,

1068
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 11: in which huge stories that reflect our national priorities and

1069
00:51:20,719 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 11: our national conflicts of interest are coming home to roost

1070
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 11: and they're not enough people covering it.

1071
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1072
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:28,759
Speaker 2: Well, I mean I have to think that the you know,

1073
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 2: the corporate ad dollars are an important part of that

1074
00:51:31,440 --> 00:51:34,759
Speaker 2: story too. I mean, even us being outside of the

1075
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 2: sports media sphere and many of our competitors take tons

1076
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 2: of money from these gambling povergies. They just have an

1077
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:43,719
Speaker 2: endless amount of money it seems like to throw at,

1078
00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:47,279
Speaker 2: you know, different personalities, And so I would think that

1079
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:50,920
Speaker 2: if you're going directly, if you were taking that money

1080
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:53,800
Speaker 2: and you see something untoward, you're maybe gonna you know,

1081
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,640
Speaker 2: keep it, keep it to yourself, rather than risk that

1082
00:51:57,800 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 2: cash into your operation.

1083
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:03,200
Speaker 11: Yet, look, I am somebody who believes. Again, I worked

1084
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 11: at ESPN, I work at Sports Illustrated. I'm familiar with

1085
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,000
Speaker 11: all the media companies in the world who have to

1086
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 11: make some level of internal firewall between business and news.

1087
00:52:13,960 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 11: I get that ancient attempt to do that. All I

1088
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:20,160
Speaker 11: would say is, if you are taking money from any

1089
00:52:20,239 --> 00:52:22,880
Speaker 11: of the parties that you are also covering, you do

1090
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 11: at some point need to show through journalism that holds

1091
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 11: those parties to account that the firewall is plausible. And

1092
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:33,600
Speaker 11: I think what's increasingly obvious is the implausibility.

1093
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:33,440
Speaker 1: Of that firewall.

1094
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 11: And maybe it's because, again, the public demand for this

1095
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,280
Speaker 11: stuff has been characterized in these boardrooms as so low,

1096
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,520
Speaker 11: like journalism that's not going to make you money, and

1097
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,759
Speaker 11: therefore let's just go all in on the business of

1098
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 11: favoring our partners. But I think what you guys have experienced,

1099
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,239
Speaker 11: that what I've experienced as an independent journalist, as an

1100
00:52:52,239 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 11: independent newsroom, is that there is such a demand for

1101
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,120
Speaker 11: people who actually want to know the truth, people who

1102
00:52:59,160 --> 00:53:01,840
Speaker 11: actually want to know what am I not being told

1103
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,239
Speaker 11: and why am I not being told it about these

1104
00:53:04,280 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 11: institutions that I love that I'm giving my money to.

1105
00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:10,480
Speaker 11: And so the pendulum has just swung in such a

1106
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:14,360
Speaker 11: way that I think there's actually now a business case, obviously,

1107
00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 11: to get into a real journalistic operation. I just think

1108
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 11: that they are not enough places that are actively considering

1109
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,440
Speaker 11: it along a profit motive as opposed to just a

1110
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:29,680
Speaker 11: obligation morally or otherwise.

1111
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 3: You're totally right, and I see it everywhere. I mean,

1112
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,520
Speaker 3: you know, the most successful sports journalists are basically just

1113
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 3: people who tweet press releases from the NFL and from

1114
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 3: their agent from the players agents. If a guy is

1115
00:53:40,800 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 3: really injured. You're going to be the last to know, right,

1116
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 3: and they are going to be the last to tell you.

1117
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:46,319
Speaker 3: You find things that, I mean, I found out this

1118
00:53:46,360 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 3: morning Carson Wentz has been injured like weeks ago and

1119
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 3: is going on under certain Nobody said anything about that,

1120
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,960
Speaker 3: and there's no incentive for the people who cover it

1121
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:56,560
Speaker 3: to actually tell everybody the truth. So my last thing

1122
00:53:56,640 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 3: I do want to let you expound on is that

1123
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:02,440
Speaker 3: Salary Cap story. In my opinion, yeah, massive, massive scandal

1124
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 3: with like IRS implications, league implications, player implications, same thing

1125
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:11,759
Speaker 3: touched on, very little acknowledged by much of a sports media.

1126
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:13,080
Speaker 3: I do want to let you get some of the

1127
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:14,840
Speaker 3: details out there because I want our audience to know

1128
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:16,080
Speaker 3: how crazy and corrupt this is.

1129
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:16,959
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1130
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 11: So this is a story that is also being investigated.

1131
00:54:19,719 --> 00:54:22,400
Speaker 11: Scare quotes around that I suppose by the NBA and

1132
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 11: by Walktel, the law firm that they hired as their

1133
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 11: outside council to look into this. And so it's funny

1134
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 11: as I've been covering two stories, the betting scandal and

1135
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:33,600
Speaker 11: the Aspiration Clippers Kawhi Leonard capture convention scandal that the

1136
00:54:33,719 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 11: NBA has been tracking in parallel as well, basically listening

1137
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:38,279
Speaker 11: to the pod trying to figure out, like, what is

1138
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 11: the one guy here to make our life MESSI gonna

1139
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 11: report next. And I say that not merely because I'm

1140
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:45,640
Speaker 11: proud of the work, but just because I have an

1141
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,800
Speaker 11: insight into the question of investigation, and in this story,

1142
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 11: it is the richest owner in American sports, Steve Baumer,

1143
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 11: one of the ten richest people in the world, who

1144
00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 11: we report, got into business with a guy who ended

1145
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 11: up defrauding him, which is unfortunate because that same guy,

1146
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:03,760
Speaker 11: Joe Sandberg, the co founder of a climate change company

1147
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 11: called Aspiration, he had trusted Steve Balmer had trusted, according

1148
00:55:08,320 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 11: to our reporting, to help him deceive the NBA. We're

1149
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:16,440
Speaker 11: talking about fifty million dollars into Aspiration from Steve Balmer.

1150
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 11: We're talking about forty eight million dollars guaranteed from Aspiration

1151
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 11: to Kawhi Leonard in what amounts to the most unprecedented

1152
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 11: in scope and in mess at this point, caps or

1153
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 11: convention scandal in American sports history. And the reason this

1154
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:34,680
Speaker 11: matters is because from a pure big picture perspective, let's

1155
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:38,160
Speaker 11: say you don't care about sports, just understand sports ownership

1156
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:42,760
Speaker 11: in America has never belonged more clearly to the richer

1157
00:55:42,880 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 11: and richer individuals that you might otherwise see all across

1158
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 11: Silicon Valley and now of course into the Middle East

1159
00:55:50,360 --> 00:55:53,239
Speaker 11: and private equity. Sports teams go up and up and up.

1160
00:55:53,360 --> 00:55:56,240
Speaker 11: The media economy that we spoke about is fragmented. Sports

1161
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,720
Speaker 11: teams continue to appreciate in value. It's all green arrows.

1162
00:56:00,160 --> 00:56:02,719
Speaker 11: Richest people in the world want to buy them. And

1163
00:56:02,760 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 11: when they want to buy them, it turns out, accorded

1164
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 11: by reporting, they get frustrated that there are actually some

1165
00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:11,760
Speaker 11: caps on their spending. So the things that the richest

1166
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,000
Speaker 11: people in the world want more than anything else at

1167
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 11: this phase in their lives, often an NBA title or

1168
00:56:17,719 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 11: a star player for their team, they just can't buy.

1169
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,399
Speaker 11: There are rules around fair play they need to abide by.

1170
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 11: And so that is the story of Steve Bomber trying

1171
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 11: to get money to Kawhi Leonard, and the question around

1172
00:56:31,160 --> 00:56:33,719
Speaker 11: these three thousand plus pages of documents that I acquired

1173
00:56:33,760 --> 00:56:37,880
Speaker 11: and the now nine anonymous sources who worked at Aspiration

1174
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,440
Speaker 11: who have testified to me that this was for caps

1175
00:56:40,520 --> 00:56:44,280
Speaker 11: or convention. It speaks to what the NBA once again

1176
00:56:44,719 --> 00:56:47,400
Speaker 11: is willing to find in an investigation in which the

1177
00:56:47,520 --> 00:56:50,880
Speaker 11: check is not, for now the federal government when it

1178
00:56:50,920 --> 00:56:53,360
Speaker 11: comes to Steve Bomber, but a dude with a podcast.

1179
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,759
Speaker 1: And that's sort of the other thing that I'm working on.

1180
00:56:56,719 --> 00:56:59,719
Speaker 3: To well, you know, keep it up, man, Yeah, yeah,

1181
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,160
Speaker 3: out there. If you're listening, you have something to leak,

1182
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 3: send it to PAPLO. I would love to see it.

1183
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 11: I'd appreciate it. My podcast would in fact appreciate it.

1184
00:57:08,040 --> 00:57:09,960
Speaker 1: Thank you, guys, I appreciate you too. Thanks for coming

1185
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,520
Speaker 1: on mans anytime, anytime.