WEBVTT - National Security Attorney Nicole Tisdale on Election Integrity 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:04.000 Nicole Tisdale is a national security attorney with fifteen years 0:00:04.040 --> 0:00:07.880 of experience, including roles at the White House National Security Council, 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:11.840 the US Congress's House Committee on Homeland Security, and the 0:00:11.840 --> 0:00:18.919 twenty twenty Biden Harris Transition. Her national security expertise includes cybersecurity, counterintelligence, 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:24.160 and election security. And she is our guest today. This 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:27.480 is Civic Cipher. I'm your host, ramses. 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:29.800 Jah, and I am q Ward. 0:00:30.640 --> 0:00:33.080 All Right, so Nicole Tisdale, welcome to the show. I 0:00:33.080 --> 0:00:36.480 know that we've been waiting. We had to actually wait 0:00:36.520 --> 0:00:38.080 a little longer than we wanted to get to talk 0:00:38.080 --> 0:00:39.479 to you, but I'm glad that we get to talk 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:41.120 to you today. How are you feeling this morning. 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.199 I'm feeling good. I'm so excited to be on this podcast. 0:00:45.760 --> 0:00:50.280 I'm actually a fan. Before I got outreached from you all, 0:00:50.400 --> 0:00:53.159 I listened to you all and so it was when 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:55.400 I saw in the inbox, you know, it's the formal 0:00:55.480 --> 0:00:58.560 email of like this is the podcast. I immediately responded, 0:00:58.920 --> 0:01:01.320 I said, I know who they are, and yes, whenever 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:04.160 we can figure out the timing, I'm going. So I'm 0:01:04.200 --> 0:01:05.000 happy to be here. 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.520 You you honor us, our listeners cannot see how big 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:12.200 I'm smiling right now, But thank you so much, and 0:01:12.360 --> 0:01:14.560 like like ram to say, we are honored to be 0:01:14.600 --> 0:01:16.039 able to spend some time with you today. 0:01:16.319 --> 0:01:19.760 Yeah, so so let's uh, let's get to know you 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:25.319 a little bit better for our listeners. You have a Again, 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:27.760 we start our show with a brief introduction, but you know, 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:29.920 we like to open the floor to you to kind 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:33.000 of establish a bit of rapport to our audience, or 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:35.679 with our audience, I should say, so, you know, share 0:01:35.720 --> 0:01:37.880 a couple of details about your life, the things that 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.920 make you, the things make you human. You know, where 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.560 you were born, how you grew up, what motivates you 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.200 every day, and sort of what led you to today's conversation. 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:51.240 Sure, I'm happy to give folks some additional background. I 0:01:51.280 --> 0:01:53.520 will just start off because people are going to hear 0:01:53.560 --> 0:01:56.840 my accent and wonder how I'm in Washington, DC and 0:01:56.880 --> 0:02:00.200 I sound like this. So I'm originally from a no 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:04.360 traffic light town in Mississippi. It's called Nettleton, Mississippi. It's 0:02:04.440 --> 0:02:10.959 two thousand people. It's a very uh working class town, 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:13.440 but a lot of people live under the poverty line, 0:02:13.919 --> 0:02:18.840 myself included. That's where I started. I am a first 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.280 generation everything to I always tell folks that I'm like, 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:23.920 you know, the first person in my family to go 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.440 to college. But I'm also the first attorney in my town, 0:02:28.520 --> 0:02:33.640 and so I have. My introduction to politics and civics 0:02:33.720 --> 0:02:36.320 and civic engagement is probably a little bit different from 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:38.800 some of your other listeners because I grew up in 0:02:38.840 --> 0:02:43.040 a family where sometimes they didn't vote. You know, I 0:02:43.080 --> 0:02:47.080 have cousins now who work in plants and their shift 0:02:47.120 --> 0:02:49.839 is from seven am to seven pm. And guess what, 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.160 the vote the Poland places are open from eight am 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:56.240 to seven pm. So how are you going to vote 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.240 if you have to go to work? But also, you know, 0:02:59.480 --> 0:03:01.560 because we live in a small town, most of us 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:07.080 work and commute thirty minutes away. So the idea that 0:03:07.120 --> 0:03:09.160 you're going to like take your lunch break and be 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.400 able to come back to your town vote and then 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:14.640 get back to work, not only does that cost money, 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.079 that cost time, and we don't always We didn't always 0:03:17.160 --> 0:03:22.000 have that in my family. So I've all before professionally 0:03:22.040 --> 0:03:24.560 getting involved in politics, I would say I was always 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:26.880 kind of a little bit of a distance. It just 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:28.639 didn't feel like it was something that was a part 0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:32.919 of our everyday life growing up. That being said, when 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:38.160 I was introduced to politics and really public policy, it 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:40.600 just made a lot of sense to me. At most 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:42.640 of my life, I wanted to be an attorney. I 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.280 wanted to be a lawyer. And then I went to 0:03:45.360 --> 0:03:49.880 college and I learned about public policy, and I remember thinking, oh, 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:52.200 this is so much better than being a lawyer, because 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:53.800 if I mess up, no one's going to go to 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.520 jail and no one's going to lose any money. But 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:01.240 clearly that's not how public policy work. But the idea 0:04:01.960 --> 0:04:04.120 that I could be a voice for people who didn't 0:04:04.160 --> 0:04:06.720 have a voice, and I could advocate, I could learn 0:04:06.800 --> 0:04:10.520 systems and then go advocate for people. That was very 0:04:10.520 --> 0:04:12.600 similar to being a lawyer in a courtroom to me, 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:16.320 and it was really appealing to me because I know 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:20.080 how public policy benefits had changed my life. Right like 0:04:20.200 --> 0:04:23.280 I we were on the SNAP program. I remember how 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:26.800 important that that food was for us, but those essentials 0:04:26.839 --> 0:04:30.039 were for us. My dad is a union worker. My 0:04:30.200 --> 0:04:34.720 mom was employed in various places but never had stable 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:38.960 employment after NAFTA was signed. So public policy had always 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:41.359 been around me, but it wasn't until I got to 0:04:41.400 --> 0:04:44.000 college that I really understood how it was impacted my 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.560 day to day life. And so this is turning into 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:48.760 a really long answer. 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.080 But what we want to hear. 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:55.520 So after undergrad I went to law school. In law school, 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.880 I really focused on public policy. So I always tell 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:04.800 folks when everyone else was taking bankruptcy and corporate law, 0:05:05.360 --> 0:05:09.960 I was taken criminal procedure. I was taking legislative drafting. 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.040 I was taking statutory law. I took every constitutional law 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:17.480 class you can take. I was obsessed with understanding how 0:05:17.520 --> 0:05:22.000 the Constitution was, the ideas that were behind and creating 0:05:22.000 --> 0:05:24.720 the Constitution, but then how it had evolved, and really 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.039 figuring out strategies where I could use the Constitution to 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:32.760 advance my community. And so after that I started working 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:37.599 in Congress for Chairman Benny Thompson, who most people now 0:05:37.680 --> 0:05:41.599 know because he chaired the January sixth Committee where we 0:05:41.720 --> 0:05:45.279 investigated the attacks on the capital in January sixth of 0:05:45.320 --> 0:05:48.680 twenty twenty one. But before that, he also was the 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:51.880 top Democrat and continues to be the top Democrat on 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:55.920 the House Homeland Security Committee. And a lot of your listeners, 0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.160 I always tell folks, people think they have a little 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:00.400 bit of distance on homeland security until you start talking 0:06:00.440 --> 0:06:02.640 about how it shows up in their everyday life. So 0:06:03.040 --> 0:06:05.560 it's not just when you go to the airport. It's 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.480 also when you have a natural disaster and FEMA is 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.920 there to help you and your community recover. It is 0:06:13.040 --> 0:06:15.120 TSA when you go to the airport, and I know 0:06:15.160 --> 0:06:20.400 people have strong thoughts about TSA, but it's you all 0:06:20.440 --> 0:06:23.440 are also based in Phoenix, Arizona. So it's also customs 0:06:23.440 --> 0:06:26.360 and border protection, so it is when you travel in 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.680 and out of our country, and then some of the 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.159 other things that we don't think about. It's also where 0:06:31.720 --> 0:06:36.200 our cybersecurity is. How so the idea that we want 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:39.159 to make sure that your data is protected, but also 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:41.760 we want to make sure that the water plant in Phoenix, 0:06:41.800 --> 0:06:44.599 Arizona is protected from a cyber attack. All of that 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:47.800 stuff lives at the Department of Homeland Security. And so 0:06:47.920 --> 0:06:51.640 for ten years I worked on that stuff, very focused 0:06:51.720 --> 0:06:56.560 on cyber security counterintelligence. Counter Intelligence is just a long 0:06:56.640 --> 0:07:01.440 word for espionage policy, which is spypolgy. And then I 0:07:01.480 --> 0:07:04.480 also worked though I know everyone always thinks I'm a 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:06.599 spy and then they're disappointed when I tell them that 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:11.360 my spy tool is a word document, but you know, 0:07:11.480 --> 0:07:14.560 we got to have rules and regulations around how we 0:07:14.640 --> 0:07:18.640 actually do counter intelligence and how we do espionage. So 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.280 Congress also gives money to agency so that they can 0:07:22.480 --> 0:07:24.800 conduct those activities. So you have to have someone in 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.840 Congress who also is working on those issues. And then 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:31.040 the kind of the other issue that I worked on 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.640 a lot, and I think we'll get into it a 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.600 little bit is counter terrorism. And so when I started 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.280 working on counter terrorism, that was at the height of 0:07:39.520 --> 0:07:43.840 ISIS and al Qaeda. But over time we also saw 0:07:44.480 --> 0:07:47.360 the theme that that black people have been trying to 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.160 highlight for a long time, which is, yes, there are 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:53.120 foreign terrorists, but they are also domestic terrorists. And so 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:57.840 you have the Charleston church shooting where Dylan Ruth went 0:07:57.880 --> 0:08:02.440 in and killed the black congregation member. That is the 0:08:02.520 --> 0:08:06.200 counter terrorism portfolio that I just kind of under the 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.960 direction of Chairman Thompson, we were able to expand what 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:12.800 counter terrorism is is not just isis them al Qaeda 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.800 in Iraq and Syria. It is the Kluklux Klan in 0:08:17.120 --> 0:08:22.680 New Orleans or in Louisiana. It is sovereign citizens in Phoenix, Arizona. 0:08:23.120 --> 0:08:27.280 And so it was a really great portfolio. I loved it. 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.560 After ten years and helping Democrats take back the House, 0:08:32.720 --> 0:08:34.800 happy to get into the politics of why that kind 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.600 of is important, I decided to start my own company. 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:43.000 One of the things that I saw, especially after Donald 0:08:43.040 --> 0:08:48.040 Trump was elected in twenty sixteen, we don't always our 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.439 community doesn't always know how to advocate because no one 0:08:50.440 --> 0:08:53.360 has taught us how to advocate. So I spent a 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.040 lot of time. People would come and talk to me 0:08:56.080 --> 0:09:00.560 in Congress and they were really using activist tools, which 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.680 are good tools. It's just they were trying to advocate 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.840 with activist tools instead of advocacy tools. Or they're coming 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:11.400 to us with like accountability tools, which is, well, we're 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:14.880 not gonna we voted for you, so what are you doing? 0:09:14.960 --> 0:09:17.800 And it's like, well, the advocacy is what have you 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:20.480 asked me to do, not we're going to hold you 0:09:20.520 --> 0:09:22.600 accountable for something we never asked you to do in 0:09:22.600 --> 0:09:27.000 the first place. I saw this need in this understanding 0:09:27.080 --> 0:09:29.400 that everyone is not going to be able to afford 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:32.240 a lobbyist. They're not going to be able to be 0:09:32.280 --> 0:09:35.400 a part of a trade association where you have professional 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.160 lobbyists who will go and advocate on your behalf. Once 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:43.200 Donald Trump was elected, I think I personally felt that 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:46.680 it was going to be my mission to teach our community, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.720 and I say our community, I mean any minority community 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:54.000 how to properly advocate, because I think we are our 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:59.680 best advocates, but sometimes if we if we don't structure 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:02.720 our as advocacy in the right way, we're just not 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:06.720 going to get results. And I think the first election 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.880 of Donald Trump really show people we really have to 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:13.080 spend just as much time learning how to advocate as 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:16.800 we spend learning how to mobilize and how to do activism. 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:18.920 It's the same kind of work that needs to be 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:22.760 done on the accountability side. Like we have the NAACP 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:25.400 Legal Defense Fund. It spends a lot of time and 0:10:25.440 --> 0:10:28.600 a lot of money on accountability measures that happen in 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:33.280 the courtroom. Teaching people that middle wrong, which is advocacy. 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:35.680 For me, I was like, this is going to be 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.079 the perfect place for me, and so I wrote a 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:41.760 book on how Congress works, called Right to Petition, and 0:10:42.200 --> 0:10:44.920 I just really started traveling around the country, and then 0:10:45.040 --> 0:10:48.520 once COVID hit, traveling around zooms just teaching people how 0:10:48.520 --> 0:10:51.559 to advocate. So people come to me with a problem 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.760 and really just walking them through how to build a 0:10:54.840 --> 0:10:59.079 strategy and getting people to understand sometimes what you need 0:10:59.200 --> 0:11:01.839 is not a law, right Like a lot of people 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:03.600 are like, well, we need Congress to pass a law, 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:05.680 and you talk to them and it's like, you don't 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.960 actually need a law. The issue that you're having is 0:11:09.000 --> 0:11:12.360 an oversight issue, Like you just need you need Chairman 0:11:12.440 --> 0:11:15.600 Thompson to send a letter to DHS and ask them 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:18.240 why are they collecting people's cell phones at the border? 0:11:18.800 --> 0:11:21.640 What are the privacy regulations that they're trying to enforce. 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.199 You don't need a law right now. So I did that. 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:29.679 I joined the transition. The transition was something that I 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:32.080 always worked on when I was in Congress, but I 0:11:32.120 --> 0:11:35.319 wanted to work on it with the Biden Harris administration 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:39.800 because in twenty twenty, y'all, everything was such a mess, 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.840 and I didn't you know, this is before January sixth. 0:11:43.280 --> 0:11:47.720 We knew that the transition to the Biden Harris administration 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.960 was going to be rough, because you know, I spent 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:55.199 four years dealing with the Trump administration trying to do oversight, 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.720 try to ask questions, and from the inside, we just 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.560 knew that they weren't doing a lot of things like 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:05.160 there wasn't going to be a smooth handoff of policy 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:07.800 because it had been so much chaos and turmoil the 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.320 whole time that he was in office. So it was 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.640 important for me to join the transition to do my 0:12:12.840 --> 0:12:15.640 part to really just make sure we could have as 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:19.559 peaceful and smooth of a transfer of power and policy 0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:20.360 as possible. 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:22.719 I don't want to I don't want to throw you 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:24.600 off track, but can you talk a little bit about 0:12:24.640 --> 0:12:27.240 what the turmoil and what the chaos was like or 0:12:27.320 --> 0:12:30.800 what does that mean that where you were able to 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.679 anticipate there be problems there and then and then please continue. 0:12:34.160 --> 0:12:38.199 Yeah, well, I mean very specifically, like a specific example 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.760 for DHS. One of the things that Trump administration had 0:12:41.800 --> 0:12:44.800 done is really use the Department of Homeland Security to 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.920 politicize a lot of the visceral and hate that he 0:12:49.120 --> 0:12:52.120 had for communities of color. So I don't know if 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:55.240 you all remember, but there was a time where ICE, 0:12:55.760 --> 0:13:00.000 Immigrations and Customs Enforcement, but also what we call FPS, 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:04.000 which is the Federal Protective Service, they were actually going 0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:08.679 into places like Portland, Oregon where people were protesting Black 0:13:08.679 --> 0:13:13.400 Lives Matter and they were actually rounding up people. They 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:17.200 were being used to scare people. That's not their mission, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:23.040 right Like isis mission is a immigration enforcement mission, the 0:13:23.080 --> 0:13:27.920 Federal Protective Services mission is to protect federal buildings, to 0:13:28.040 --> 0:13:31.040 politicize them and use them in a way that you 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:37.640 can really scare and target black protesters and the people 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:41.200 who support the black protesters. That is something that it 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:43.520 wasn't There were people who were writing about it. It was 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:45.520 on the press, but it was not on the front page. 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.840 And that's what I always give as an example of 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:51.720 a transition. A transition is responsible for digging through all 0:13:51.760 --> 0:13:55.400 of those all of those issues, whether big or small, 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.440 and bringing them to the forefront and saying, this is 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:01.880 what happened during the Trump administry, this is why it 0:14:02.040 --> 0:14:07.520 was unconstitutional, it was not the proper oversight wasn't there, 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:09.760 and this is what we're going to do during the 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.240 next administration. So it gets in the weeds. It's very weedy, 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.200 it's very nerdy. I'm very aware that, but it's also 0:14:16.280 --> 0:14:20.040 something that I really enjoy doing because so much of 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:22.920 what actually impacts our day to day life isn't always 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:28.160 on the front page of the newspaper. But for those protesters. 0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.480 That was a huge issue. A lot of them were arrested. 0:14:32.680 --> 0:14:37.640 Now they had charges on their criminal record. You have 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:40.880 to go in and recognize one what can we do 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.360 to fix what has happened? Repair what has happened. But 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:47.320 a good transition is also very proactive. How do we 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:50.440 make sure this never happens again? And one of the 0:14:50.440 --> 0:14:53.560 things that we proposed and the Biden Heerents administration has 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:56.800 subsequently done, is like, get really clear on what the 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:01.720 mission of FPS is, who is doing oversight on FPS? 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:05.520 And when they are doing things like rounding up protesters, 0:15:06.320 --> 0:15:10.120 Why are we still funding them? Why are we continuing 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:13.200 to allow them to have this access? It gets very niche, 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:16.160 but honestly, that's what most of the transition is. You're 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:20.760 just digging through policies of the other for this case, 0:15:20.920 --> 0:15:25.840 the Trump administration, making sure that those are priorities to 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:27.960 be addressed in the next administration. 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:35.280 First of all, Wow, Yeah, the work that you're doing 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:38.360 is so necessary, and I you know, we typically have 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:43.160 an objective with these conversations, but just listening to you now, 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.480 I am going to detour and as I say, cut 0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:52.920 across the grass here. How comes so many things? It 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:58.480 seems rather that so many laws were broken, so many 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:04.480 missions were violated, so many things were done incorrectly, seemingly 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:09.640 with impunity. With the former president. He seems to kind 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:14.040 of spit in the face of our laws, our law enforcement, 0:16:14.120 --> 0:16:19.280 our criminal justice community, and as you said, weaponize them 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:23.040 for his own means. We see now that he's already 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:28.440 preemptively sowing misinformation in doubt with regards to our election integrity. 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:34.440 His his followers are setting ballot boxes on fire. That 0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:39.320 from your position, because those of us that are on 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.880 this side of it are that are not as informed 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.280 and you know, have not done the work which I'm 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.480 signing Ramses and Eye up for your advocacy class, so 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:52.720 you can go ahead and preregister us to tickets front row, 0:16:52.760 --> 0:16:56.520 please please front row. But for the listeners who may 0:16:56.560 --> 0:17:00.800 have doubts or fears with regards to the protection of 0:17:00.840 --> 0:17:05.119 their vote, and again our former president getting his base 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:09.280 rilled up and preemptively telling them that everybody's cheating and 0:17:10.720 --> 0:17:13.359 in your position, like, how do you deal with that? 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.119 And how come again he seemed to be able to 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.040 violate in all these ways with impunity. 0:17:20.440 --> 0:17:24.479 Yeah, So two questions. I'll take the how does this 0:17:24.560 --> 0:17:27.959 happen question first, and then we'll talk specifically about election 0:17:28.000 --> 0:17:31.920 and security. So I think it's important for folks to know, one, 0:17:32.000 --> 0:17:34.560 this is my job, right Like, my job is to 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.120 go in. I'm the inside woman, I'm the inside person. 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:40.720 My job is to go in and figure out how 0:17:40.760 --> 0:17:44.160 these systems work, how to use them for the benefit 0:17:44.280 --> 0:17:47.639 of our communities, but then also hold people who are 0:17:47.680 --> 0:17:52.440 abusing these policies accountable. I think it's important to realize 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:56.600 some of the things that Trump was able to do 0:17:56.800 --> 0:17:59.919 was because he was president. So what I just told you, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:04.119 while the fps that did that wasn't there wasn't a 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:09.080 violation of law that was enforceable. Most their missions, all 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.320 of these things are really policies that are set into place, 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.240 and the same way that I am, the kind of 0:18:15.280 --> 0:18:19.000 attorney who interprets can go in and interpret their mission 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:22.280 for good. With the Trump administration also had as people 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:24.720 who were dedicated to interpret these missions for bad. 0:18:25.600 --> 0:18:26.760 And so when that. 0:18:26.840 --> 0:18:29.720 Is your goal and you are you know, he had 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:33.320 attorneys around him too. The way these policies are ridden, 0:18:33.520 --> 0:18:36.360 you want them to have a level of flexibility in them. 0:18:36.840 --> 0:18:40.640 What had not been, what we had not prepared for 0:18:41.359 --> 0:18:44.960 is to have a president like Trump who would just 0:18:45.160 --> 0:18:47.800 see all of these missions as a blank slate to 0:18:47.800 --> 0:18:50.720 do whatever he wanted to do. And so to your 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:54.760 point of how is that possible. The way the I'm 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.240 taking this a little bit into a civics lesson the 0:18:57.280 --> 0:19:00.199 way that kind of stuff happens is someone abuses the 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.440 power and then Congress needs someone in the executive branch 0:19:03.440 --> 0:19:07.080 of abuses the power. Then Congress actually does have to 0:19:07.160 --> 0:19:09.760 go beyond we'll have a policy for this and say 0:19:09.840 --> 0:19:12.679 we'll have a law or we'll attach your money to it. 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:15.400 And that's what we were able to do once Democrats 0:19:15.560 --> 0:19:19.200 took back control of the House. Because just to backtrack 0:19:19.240 --> 0:19:22.800 a little bit, so you have when Trump won, Democrats 0:19:22.840 --> 0:19:24.440 were not in charge of the House and they weren't 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:29.440 in charge of the Senate. During the midterms, the Democrats 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:31.880 took back control of the House and they took back 0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:36.040 control of the Senate. The House is responsible all spending bills, 0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:39.879 every agency, fps in this case, their money starts with 0:19:40.200 --> 0:19:43.240 the House. So it matters when Democrats control the House. 0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:45.440 Because what we were able to do with the Federal 0:19:45.440 --> 0:19:49.080 Protective Service is say this is the mission that we 0:19:49.200 --> 0:19:52.639 have given you. Money for when you go outside that mission. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:56.280 We're not giving you money for that. And that is 0:19:56.560 --> 0:19:58.920 just as that is just as much important to them 0:19:58.960 --> 0:20:01.639 as saying you will be eminalize for that. And I 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:04.640 say this with the understanding to your listeners. It may 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.960 not be the kind of justice that you want, right like, 0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:10.360 we may want them to be criminalized, and you may 0:20:10.359 --> 0:20:13.520 want them in jail, but please understand, when these agencies, 0:20:13.560 --> 0:20:15.800 when you start messing with their money, it's like anybody 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.720 else messing with your money, right like, you're trying to 0:20:17.760 --> 0:20:21.080 figure this out. And so we didn't have to pass 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.600 a law that says fps will never do this again. 0:20:24.200 --> 0:20:28.399 We were able to pass appropriations and pass laws with 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:30.439 the money that said if you do this again, you 0:20:30.480 --> 0:20:33.560 won't have any money. And that is something that is 0:20:33.680 --> 0:20:36.800 much more responsive and it doesn't really require us to 0:20:36.960 --> 0:20:39.840 go to the to the judicial branch and then have 0:20:40.000 --> 0:20:44.320 them interpret what was a law broken. Also, trying to 0:20:44.359 --> 0:20:48.240 tie missions to money is much easier than just trying 0:20:48.280 --> 0:20:51.280 to pass a blank law that says you shall not 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:55.639 do X or you shall do understand. So yeah, you 0:20:55.800 --> 0:20:57.520 just I mean, honestly, that's one of the tools in 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:02.199 the advocacy toolbox, like, yes, you can actually penalize people 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.520 with with criminal laws, but you can also mess with 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.199 people's money and that goes a really long way in 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:09.720 terms of public policy too. 0:21:10.200 --> 0:21:10.480 Sure. 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:17.680 Sure, Now, obviously you know quite a bit about I 0:21:17.720 --> 0:21:19.880 don't even want to start. You know a lot about 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:24.119 a lot, and the rest of us are learning, and 0:21:24.240 --> 0:21:28.200 so you're in a position to do some teaching. And 0:21:28.560 --> 0:21:31.760 you mentioned earlier that you know you've authored a book, 0:21:32.280 --> 0:21:36.040 if I'm not mistaken, your your original title was, uh 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:38.439 was Civic Cipher if I'm if I'm not mistake? 0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.120 Is that right? Yeah? 0:21:40.160 --> 0:21:42.840 Well I wanted to set up a newsletter called Civic SI. 0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:43.399 That was it. 0:21:43.480 --> 0:21:46.320 Yeah, okay, yes, that's actually how I found out about 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:51.160 you all. So I decided, I am I work on civics. 0:21:51.200 --> 0:21:54.320 I also work on cybersecurity, right, like that is kind 0:21:54.359 --> 0:21:58.600 of like expertise in national security. And so Civic Cipher 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:04.960 was the perfect and I got online and I'm like, 0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:07.600 somebody already owns it im And I really just thought 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:10.600 it was going to be somebody squad or better just 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:12.920 like someone. I was like, oh, I can do this better, 0:22:12.960 --> 0:22:14.960 I can do better by this name. And then I 0:22:15.000 --> 0:22:18.160 found y'all, And I was like, Okay, so not only 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:20.840 did y'all get the title before me and you have 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.480 the idea before me, y'all are doing such a good 0:22:23.600 --> 0:22:28.040 job with it. Yeah, and to the point of, like 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:32.920 my two love languages, right, like civics and cybersecurity, So 0:22:33.160 --> 0:22:34.359 I like civic cipher. 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:37.119 Okay, well, no, we'll take that. We appreciate it. 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:41.359 Yeah, it's a funny story how that name came together. 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.320 But I'm glad that there's a little bit of i know, 0:22:44.560 --> 0:22:48.080 serendipitous energy in the conversation we're having today and that 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:51.200 you can be on the show. But you know where 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.840 I was going with that was that, you know, obviously 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:57.320 being in a position to teach, uh, being in a 0:22:57.440 --> 0:23:01.120 position to write. One of the things things that we're 0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.720