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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast, the questions asked if movies have

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Speaker 1: women and them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands,

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Speaker 1: or do they have individualism?

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Speaker 2: It's the patriarchy.

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Speaker 1: Zeph and bast start changing with the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Jamie, Hey, Kaitlin, do you want to go on

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Speaker 3: a road trip with me to a beach and then

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Speaker 3: we'll kiss at the end?

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Speaker 2: Hmmm?

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Speaker 1: How old are you? Howlme?

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Speaker 3: Where you and I are the same age in this scenario?

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Speaker 1: Okay, but so we'll hook up? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, Okay, yes, yes, yes, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's go, let's go and let's uh, let's just go

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Speaker 1: just us.

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Speaker 3: Okay, that sounds great, b end wonderful story. Hello, and

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Speaker 3: welcome to the Bechdel Cast. My name is Caitlin Drante.

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Speaker 1: My name is Jamie Loftus, and this is our podcast

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Speaker 1: where we examine your favorite movies using an intersectional feminist lens,

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Speaker 1: using the Bechdel Test as a jumping off point for discussion.

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Speaker 1: But Katelyndurante, what the hell is the Bechdel Test?

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Speaker 3: Well, it's a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel,

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Speaker 3: sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace test, which first appeared in

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Speaker 3: Alison Bechdel's comic Dykes to Watch out For in the

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Speaker 3: mid eighties as a goof as just a little bit

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Speaker 3: in the comic, and it has since become a widely

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Speaker 3: used metric. And our version of it is that two

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Speaker 3: characters of a marginalized gender have to have names, they

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Speaker 3: have to speak to each other, and their conversation has

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Speaker 3: to be about something other than a man. And we

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Speaker 3: especially like it when it's a juicy meati conversation. Oh okay, yeah,

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Speaker 3: that was gross. I'm sorry, No, it's good. It's what

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Speaker 3: are they They scallops? They have some different types of seafood.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, yeah, we have to have a meadi seafood

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Speaker 1: y kind of conversation.

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Speaker 3: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: Nice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So that's what we use as a springboard to

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Speaker 3: talk about movies and the representation they're in. Today's movie

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Speaker 3: is a movie from two thousand and one directed by

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Speaker 3: Alfonso kron Ittumama Tambien, and we have an incredible guest

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Speaker 3: joining us. She is a Spanish tutor. She's a former

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Speaker 3: university professor, an educator all around. She's also a Mexican

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Speaker 3: immigrant who moved to the US four years ago, and

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Speaker 3: she's my personal Spanish tutor. It's Adriana Ortega.

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Speaker 2: Hi, I'm so excited to be here.

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Speaker 1: Well go, we're so start to have Yeah.

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Speaker 2: First of all, English is not my first language, so

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Speaker 2: this is going to be a rite.

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Speaker 3: But be patients with me, of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And I love this movie. It's very important to me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, tell us about your relationship with the movie.

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Speaker 2: Well, this movie came when I was in high school.

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Speaker 2: When I was in my last year of high school,

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Speaker 2: and I have two very good friends. One of them

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Speaker 2: I don't talk to very much, but the other one

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Speaker 2: is still my best friend. And the one that I

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Speaker 2: don't talk to anymore had like a cool mom. Everyone

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Speaker 2: has this friend who has the cool mom, so that

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Speaker 2: her mom took us to see it Mata been. My

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Speaker 2: parents would have never okay, And since she was the

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Speaker 2: cool mom, let's take the kids to see a movie

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Speaker 2: with sex.

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Speaker 1: Every parent has to at some point for some reason.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we loved it. We quoted the movie. It

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Speaker 2: was like, I don't know our American pie.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: If there's an equivalent, because we didn't have that before.

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Speaker 2: Like Mexican movies were boring, like movies about people our age,

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Speaker 2: like young people. Movies had to be American to appeal

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Speaker 2: to us. So this was like the first Mexican movie

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Speaker 2: made like for us as an audience and of course

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Speaker 2: as girls, as young teenage girls, seeing Diego and Guile was.

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Speaker 3: Like, oh, oh my god, it's sickening, unfair, attractive those

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Speaker 3: men are.

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Speaker 2: They're so beautiful and they were so young. They were

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Speaker 2: so young now that I see it, they had baby face.

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Speaker 1: Twenty years old.

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Speaker 2: Do that.

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Speaker 1: I'm always shocked at. I mean, it's like Diego Luna

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Speaker 1: is not old, but he has been famous for so long.

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Speaker 1: It's wild because he was like a teen idol before

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Speaker 1: this movie.

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Speaker 2: No, no, he was a child idol. They Diego and

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Speaker 2: Guyle have been in Mexico. They were soap opera stars

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Speaker 2: since since as children, as little kids. Yeah, there's this,

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Speaker 2: oh even younger.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: They were eleven years old when they were in a

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Speaker 2: soap opera named Ella Wueloy so grandpa and me h yeah,

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Speaker 2: and everyone had a Grussian Guile since he was eleven

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Speaker 2: years old, so they were big and Gile disappeared for

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Speaker 2: a while, Ygo kept being in soap operas. So when

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Speaker 2: we saw them in this movie, well, Gile had already

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Speaker 2: filmed a More Esperos, but Diego was still in our

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Speaker 2: minds a child soap opera actors. So they blew everyone's

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Speaker 2: minds with this movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, suddenly they're naked and they're masturbating and they're kissing

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Speaker 3: each other spoiler alert.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and acting like so good.

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Speaker 3: They're such good actor. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the way they changed the tone, it blows my mind.

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Speaker 2: So that's my story with the movie. I've been a

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Speaker 2: fan of those two since I was a kid. I've

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Speaker 2: always liked movies, and I've always been aware of director's

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Speaker 2: names and all of that. So Alfonso quarn directed Great

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Speaker 2: Expectations with When It Through and it and.

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Speaker 1: I've not seen that.

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Speaker 2: It's good. It's very good. So he was coming back

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Speaker 2: to Mexico and everyone was like, Oh, it's a famous

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Speaker 2: director who's already working in then now he's doing a

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Speaker 2: movie about Mexico, and everyone was excited about that too. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I was that annoying teenage person who knew the director's name.

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Speaker 3: He had also directed The Little Princess before this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I didn't.

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Speaker 4: I think I grew up with that movie, it's okay, look, well,

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Speaker 4: I'll be completionists one day day. I'm also a little

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Speaker 4: Princess head, but I'm not a Quarne completionist.

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Speaker 1: I have some gaps. I think it's just great expectations

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Speaker 1: and gravity. But I always confused Gravity an Interstellar because

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Speaker 1: it was like two of our most famous living directors

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Speaker 1: directed space movies so close together.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, true, Jamie, what is your relationship with

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Speaker 3: Ittomoma Dumbion?

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Speaker 1: So I'd seen this once before, but it was a

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Speaker 1: very very long time ago, and I had not retained

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Speaker 1: very much of it. I think I was far closer

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Speaker 1: to the young boys characters in this movie the first

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Speaker 1: time I saw it. Now I think I may be

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Speaker 1: the exact age of the older member of the maid cast.

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Speaker 1: So it was very different viewing experiences, and I was,

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Speaker 1: I think, watching it with friends the first time. But

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Speaker 1: I do remember to me, as a dufus American New Englander,

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Speaker 1: that I first learned of this movie when Harry Potter

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Speaker 1: three was announced and Alfonso Crone was the director, because

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Speaker 1: in my like ten year old world, they were like

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Speaker 1: and this guy has directed a Little Princess, which I

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Speaker 1: loved and also this very sexy movie that I'm not

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Speaker 1: allowed to watch because I you know, I was eight

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Speaker 1: when this movie came out, so I definitely wasn't allowed

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Speaker 1: to watch it. And I don't think that my parents

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Speaker 1: did either, because they back horny movie depth, I guess,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, this movie had like mythic status in my head.

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Speaker 1: So I watched it when I was in college. I

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Speaker 1: remember really liking it in college, and this is the

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Speaker 1: first time I have revisited it in I think at

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Speaker 1: least ten years, and I mean, holy shit, there's so

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Speaker 1: much to talk about. And also, I mean I remember

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Speaker 1: when I watched it in college, and again this is

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Speaker 1: like goofy. American kids will know that I saw Diego Luna,

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Speaker 1: and to me, I'm like, it's the guy from Dirty

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Speaker 1: Dancing Havana Knights that I had a crush on because

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Speaker 1: I was really into Dirty Dancing Havanah Knights. I don't

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Speaker 1: know how well that would do on this show, but

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Speaker 1: that was like a sleepover movie. Dirty Dancing Havana Knights

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Speaker 1: was cannon to me, and so that's where I knew

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Speaker 1: Diego Luna from at the time. And now, you know,

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Speaker 1: everyone in this movie is such a legend it's so

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Speaker 1: well acted. I think it's one of the most interesting

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Speaker 1: road trip movies I've ever scene, because I mean, there's

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Speaker 1: so many ways to do a road trip movie. I

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Speaker 1: feel like often there's goofiness. Often coming of age movies

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Speaker 1: are either like over dramatic or overly goofy.

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Speaker 3: I associate them with like gross out comedies a lot.

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Speaker 3: I feel like a lot of American road trip movies

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Speaker 3: are like gross out comedies.

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Speaker 5: I mean these movies not that this movie isn't very

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Speaker 5: gross in points, which it is, but I also think

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Speaker 5: like the alternate to that I'm thinking of, Like, I

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Speaker 5: don't know why this movie is coming to my like

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Speaker 5: a road trip that is.

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Speaker 1: Like rooted in mourning from the jump right where it's

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Speaker 1: like I'm on a road trip to go see my

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Speaker 1: sick relative, or I'm like on a road trip to

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Speaker 1: do something sad, a goofy movie goofy see and the

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Speaker 1: most serious coming of aged road trip of all. But like,

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Speaker 1: this movie is so like I don't know when movies

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Speaker 1: are trying to be profound, I feel like it rarely

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Speaker 1: hits for me. But this movie is so messy and

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Speaker 1: it's silly and it's serious and there's a lot to

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Speaker 1: talk about, but I feel like it's just like it

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Speaker 1: made me uncomfortable at times, and I wonder how I

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Speaker 1: would feel watching this at a different point of my life,

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Speaker 1: because it may be uncomfortable because it's about all of

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Speaker 1: the things that you don't say or acknowledge in the

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Speaker 1: day to day even when you're having a goofy movie experience,

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Speaker 1: and like everything that is like stewing under you that

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Speaker 1: it is just like so inherent to who you are

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Speaker 1: and how you can see characters in this movie doing

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Speaker 1: something that on its face is unkind or confusing or

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Speaker 1: bizarre or sad or funny. I don't know, like that.

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Speaker 1: This movie just I've never seen anything like it, and

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Speaker 1: it made me, I think, squirm in a good way

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Speaker 1: because you're like, ough, people are so hard. Anyways, this

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Speaker 1: is an interesting movie to revisit, Caitlin, what's your history?

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Speaker 3: I saw this movie a few years after it came out.

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Speaker 3: I think I saw it in two thousand and four

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Speaker 3: when I was a freshman in college. A friend showed

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Speaker 3: it to me and I immediately loved it. I was like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: these people are so sexy, and that was my first

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Speaker 3: introduction to both Gail Garcia Bernal and Diego Luna, and

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Speaker 3: I've loved the Gail Garcia Barnw I've mentioned this on

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Speaker 3: the show before. He is my future husband. I love

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Speaker 3: him so much. And You've been saying this for years.

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Speaker 3: I've been saying it for years. Also Now as a

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Speaker 3: huge and Or head, I think I just need to

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Speaker 3: enter a throuple with the two of them.

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen Ander yet, Audrina, have you seen it yet?

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Speaker 2: It's so good, damn it.

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Speaker 1: I was like, Okay, I'm alone and not having seen Andrew,

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Speaker 1: I do have to watch.

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Speaker 3: It's incredible.

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Speaker 2: It's the best Star Wars product that has ever come out.

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Speaker 3: I agree. So I love both of them. I do

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Speaker 3: want to make both of them my husbands. And it

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Speaker 3: all started with this movie and then just as a

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Speaker 3: piece of like storytelling, this is such an incredible movie.

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Speaker 3: I'm not big on your more like slice of life

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Speaker 3: character study type movies. I tend to prefer like big,

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Speaker 3: out of this world genre film, but this is like

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Speaker 3: such a well done, incredible movie with interesting characters, and

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Speaker 3: just like the way it examines life in Mexico and

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Speaker 3: the little snapshots you see of people who are not

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Speaker 3: like the main cast. But I like that it takes

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Speaker 3: the time to tell little narratives, little kind of vignettes

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Speaker 3: almost about different people or like historical events and things

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Speaker 3: like that. Just I think it's a really interesting way

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Speaker 3: to craft a narrative. And I love this movie. It's

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Speaker 3: one of my favorites. There's lots to talk about, and

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Speaker 3: I'm excited to get into it. So let's take a

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Speaker 3: quick break and then we'll come back for the recap.

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Speaker 3: And we are back, okay, So here's the recap of

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Speaker 3: the movie. We are in Mexico City in the late nineties,

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Speaker 3: I think it's nineteen ninety nine, and we open on

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Speaker 3: to Notch played by Diego Luna. He's having sex with

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Speaker 3: his girlfriend Anna. She's about to leave on a trip

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Speaker 3: and they're promising each other not to cheat on each other.

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Speaker 3: They're with other people while she's away. Then we meet

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Speaker 3: Julio that's Gail Garcia Bernal. He's also saying goodbye to

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Speaker 3: his girlfriend Cecilia via having sex with her because she

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Speaker 3: and Anna are going to Italy for the summer together.

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Speaker 3: They're best friends, and Tonoch and Julio are best friends,

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Speaker 3: so we see them like bidding their girlfriends farewell at

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Speaker 3: the airport, and then they're just kind of hanging out.

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Speaker 3: They're goofing around, they're enjoying their lives as like quote

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Speaker 3: unquote single guys for the summer. They're farting a lot

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Speaker 3: in front of each other as a goof.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of like triggeringly teenage boy content at

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Speaker 1: the very top of this movie, where you're like, all right,

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Speaker 1: you're lying, you're insecure, you're farting.

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Speaker 2: You're wearing a right, your whole personality is driving a

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Speaker 2: weird car.

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Speaker 1: You're like, I've seen this guy, yeah, and I've fallen

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Speaker 1: in love with this guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Of course that's when my notes I hades and

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Speaker 2: these guys, Oh.

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Speaker 1: My god, they're so unlike the other guys we think

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Speaker 1: at the time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so they're like hanging out, they go to this party,

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Speaker 3: they swim in a pool. We see their penises in

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Speaker 3: the locker room. It's a thing. Also, I did not

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Speaker 3: realize how I thought they were college age the first,

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Speaker 3: like many dozens of times I saw this movie. We

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Speaker 3: just learned that they are still in high school, so

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Speaker 3: that we'll talk about that. But anyway, I'm like, oh god,

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Speaker 3: I feel weird now. The actors were like in their

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Speaker 3: early twenties when they filmed this, but like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but they're just we talked about this for Adriana.

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Speaker 1: You said this may have been a translation thing, because, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: at the big beginning of the movie, I thought it

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Speaker 1: was the classic like summer trip after senior year kind

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Speaker 1: of thing that we've seen. The movie is a lot,

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Speaker 1: but you're totally right. At the end of the movie,

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Speaker 1: we flash forward a year and they have just gotten

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Speaker 1: out of high school, so this is the end of

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Speaker 1: their junior year of high school there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so in Mexico there are three years of high

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Speaker 2: school and they're about to start their senior year. Because

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Speaker 2: when they're in the car farting, they have This is

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Speaker 2: not in the subtitles, but Dono says that his dad

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Speaker 2: is mad at him because he doesn't want to study

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Speaker 2: Aria tres, which means so the last year of high

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Speaker 2: school in Mexico, we get to choose which area of studies.

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Speaker 2: It depends on what you're studying in university. So he

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Speaker 2: wants to be in Area four. He wants to be

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Speaker 2: a writer, and his dad is mad at him because

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Speaker 2: he doesn't want to be on Area three. So that's

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Speaker 2: how we know they're about to start their senior year.

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Speaker 1: I say, okay, got it.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, we'll dive into an age gap later on.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, god damn it.

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Speaker 2: You know some people start their senior year at eighteen

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Speaker 2: in Mexico, So okay, so they may be seventeen or eighteen,

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Speaker 2: they're not like fourteen or fifteen. There must be about

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Speaker 2: to turn eighteen.

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Speaker 3: Okay, let's pretend that that's true for the sake of

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Speaker 3: our ability to enjoy the events that transpire.

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Speaker 1: For everyone listening. I guess, yeah, full transparency, we are

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Speaker 1: not sure, and it's the movie doesn't sure. At least

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Speaker 1: the translation that I watched it was not totally clear.

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Speaker 3: Right anyway, So we see them hanging out, and we're

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Speaker 3: also getting a lot of voiceover narration about each character

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Speaker 3: we meet. So we learn, like you said, Adriana, that

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Speaker 3: Tonoch wants to be a writer. He comes from an

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Speaker 3: upper class family, his dad is a politician. Julio comes

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Speaker 3: from a lower class family. He lives with his mom

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Speaker 3: and sister. He hasn't had contact with his father in

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Speaker 3: many years, so we're learning things like that. We're also

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Speaker 3: throughout the movie getting voiceover narration like I said, with

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Speaker 3: these quick little anecdotes about different people in the community,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's like something that happened at a location that

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Speaker 3: they are at years prior. Just again these little like

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Speaker 3: snapshots about different characters or situations. Then Tonoch and Julio

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Speaker 3: go to a wedding where they meet Luisa played by

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Speaker 3: Maribel verdu. She is married to Tonoch's cousin Hano and

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Speaker 3: to know, Julio immediately take a liking to Luisa, who

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Speaker 3: tells them that she's gonna be hanging out by herself

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Speaker 3: for the next few days while her husband Hanno is away,

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Speaker 3: and she wants to go to the beach. And Julio

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Speaker 3: is like, ooh, we're going to the beach. Isn't that

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Speaker 3: right to Notch and Tonch is like, yes, yes, it

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Speaker 3: definitely is. We are going to the beach that definitely exists,

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Speaker 3: and it's definitely called La Boca de Clo, which translates

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Speaker 3: to Heaven's.

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Speaker 1: Mouth, which is a great joke.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: One of the things this movie does in a fun

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Speaker 1: way and then also goes back later to get a

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Speaker 1: little more layer, is just like how much specificity that

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Speaker 1: they make Hanno seem like a real drip and like

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Speaker 1: a real piece of shit annoying up his own ask

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Speaker 1: guy baby, right, And then you get the narration that

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Speaker 1: is like, Okay, he comes by it honestly, like which

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Speaker 1: every asshole technically comes by it honestly. But then you

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Speaker 1: get to go back and you're like, well, but also

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Speaker 1: he's an asshole.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we are not meant to sympathize with him.

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Speaker 1: No, And I like, when we get all of the

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Speaker 1: context for a character and we still don't sympathize with them,

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Speaker 1: that's like super right, rare.

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Speaker 3: It feels like yeah. So anyway, they're talking to Luisa

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Speaker 3: about this fake trip that they are going on, and

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Speaker 3: they're clearly just making all of this up, and they

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Speaker 3: invite her along, knowing that she'll probably decline, and she

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Speaker 3: does brush them off. So the next day they just

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Speaker 3: carry on with their lives. They are fantasizing about having

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Speaker 3: sex with Luisa while they are jerking off side by

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Speaker 3: side at the swimming pool. Meanwhile, Luisa gets a call

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Speaker 3: from Hanno who admits to cheating on her, and she's devastated,

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Speaker 3: and I think the next day she calls to and

350
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Speaker 3: is like, hey, you're still going to that beach? La

351
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Speaker 3: Boca de Cielo, right, and Tonocha's like, yeah, duh, we're

352
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Speaker 3: leaving this afternoon, and she's like great, I want to

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Speaker 3: come with you. So now tanoch and Julio have to

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Speaker 3: scramble to put this trip together so that they can

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Speaker 3: take Luisa with them. They borrow a car from Julio's sister,

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Speaker 3: they grab some groceries, they get confusing directions from their

357
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Speaker 3: friend Sabo, and then they pick Luisa up and start

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Speaker 3: driving toward a random beach. Basically, they're just like going

359
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Speaker 3: toward the coast. On the way, the guys get to

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Speaker 3: know Luisa and they tell her about them. How they

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00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 3: call each other Charlelastras. They have a manifesto. On their

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Speaker 3: manifesto is stuff like there's no bigger honor than being

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00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:07,399
Speaker 3: a Charles Astra. Never fuck another Charle Astra's girlfriend. Jerking

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Speaker 3: off is awesome.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god. Unlike fight club they have eleven rules,

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Speaker 1: and fight club is frustrating enough. But I'm like, there's

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Speaker 1: eleven rules and some of them contradict the other rules,

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Speaker 1: and no one follows the rules.

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Speaker 2: But two of them repeat, Yeah, they hate what is it?

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Speaker 3: The like American club football?

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Speaker 2: Like, I don't like this word but slur for gay. Globe.

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Speaker 2: America is a soccer team in Mexico that everyone either

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Speaker 2: loves or hates. There's no middle ground, no one is indifferent.

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Speaker 1: Felt that way based on Hanning yea.

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Speaker 2: But my family is they like America, so we're on

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Speaker 2: the other side.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So then that night they stop for some food

378
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Speaker 3: and drinks and Luisa admits to them that Hanno has

379
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Speaker 3: been cheating on her, and later on, when they're at

380
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Speaker 3: a hotel, they go and like try to spy on her,

381
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Speaker 3: but they see her crying, so they kind of scurry

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Speaker 3: back to their room, and the next day they set

383
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Speaker 3: off for the beach. She calls them out for spying

384
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Speaker 3: on her, and then the conversation turns to sex. She

385
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Speaker 3: wants to know how many people they've slept with. She

386
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Speaker 3: asks them how they make love to their girlfriends, and

387
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Speaker 3: at the exact moment that she mentions putting a finger

388
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Speaker 3: in someone's asshole, the car breaks down and so they

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Speaker 3: have to stop for the day. We see Luisa crying

390
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Speaker 3: in her room again. We will come to understand why

391
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Speaker 3: she keeps kind of breaking down and crying. But anyway,

392
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Speaker 3: as she's doing this to no barges in to borrow

393
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Speaker 3: some shampoo, and then she's like, hey, drop your towel

394
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Speaker 3: and come here, and he's like, TIHI what. And then

395
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Speaker 3: they start fooling around and they have sex and he

396
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 3: comes very fast, and then we pan over to Julio

397
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Speaker 3: in the doorway, who has seen the whole thing, and

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Speaker 3: now he's very jealous and he's like, by the way,

399
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 3: to Noach, I fucked your girlfriend Anna. And now to

400
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 3: Noach is super jealous and upset, and he interrogates Julio

401
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 3: all night with all these questions about this affair.

402
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Speaker 1: Basically, I have so much to say about that scene,

403
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Speaker 1: where it's like, even in these moments of true profound hurt,

404
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:04,440
Speaker 1: it's like the women are incidental and talked like as

405
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Speaker 1: if they're symbols or objects and not.

406
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Speaker 3: And they like are slut shaming their girlfriends. Yeah, like

407
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,720
Speaker 3: using really disparaging language. Yeah.

408
00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:18,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll come back to it, but yeah.

409
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: Yeah. So the next morning, in the car, while Tanoch's driving,

410
00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 3: Luisa climbs into the back seat with Julio and starts

411
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Speaker 3: kissing him to sort of like restore the balance, because

412
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Speaker 3: she can tell that there's a lot of tension between them,

413
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Speaker 3: so to not she's pissed off. He pulls over and

414
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Speaker 3: runs off while Luisa and Julio have sex in the

415
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Speaker 3: back seat.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Louis is like, there's only one way to resolve this,

417
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: having sex with a second teenager. You're like, Louisa, God,

418
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Speaker 1: damn it.

419
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Speaker 3: No, we'll come back to it. So they have sex,

420
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Speaker 3: and then he also comes very fast, and then shech

421
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: and she's like, well, this is what you wanted right, like,

422
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,359
Speaker 3: you were both trying to fuck me. That's why you

423
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 3: invited me on this beach trip. And she realizes that

424
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: she shouldn't have had sex with either of them, but

425
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,479
Speaker 3: she's like, well, too late. Now let's go. So they

426
00:27:15,560 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 3: set off again. They're driving and to Notch is like, hey, Julio,

427
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 3: me too. I also had sex with your girlfriend Cecilia,

428
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 3: and then they get in another huge fight. They're screaming

429
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:33,160
Speaker 3: at each other. Luisa is like, you guys are pigs

430
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Speaker 3: and your babies and I'm leaving. So she storms off,

431
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 3: but they convince her to get back in the car,

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Speaker 3: but only after she's like, okay, we do this my

433
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 3: way or the highway. I'm not gonna fuck you again.

434
00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 3: And you can't fight with each other or be annoying,

435
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,280
Speaker 3: and you have to leave me alone whenever I want

436
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 3: you to. And they're like, fair understood. So they're still

437
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,680
Speaker 3: trying to get to the beach, and that night they

438
00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 3: pull off somewhere and get stuck in the sand, so

439
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,480
Speaker 3: they just call it a night and pass out in

440
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,679
Speaker 3: the car. Then the next morning, Luisa wakes up and

441
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,879
Speaker 3: discovers that they are very close to this beautiful, you know,

442
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 3: secluded private beach, and so they start to enjoy the beach.

443
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 3: They meet this couple, Chewi and Maybell, who take the

444
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:29,439
Speaker 3: three of them on a tour in their boat, and

445
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,879
Speaker 3: Chewi is like, oh, up here is a good place

446
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,640
Speaker 3: to swim. This beach is called La Boca de Cielo,

447
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 3: which is the same name that to Know Sin Julio

448
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 3: made up earlier. So they're like, wow, what a coincidence.

449
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 3: So they're hanging out, and then that night to Know

450
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 3: Julio and Luisa are eating and drinking. They're talking about

451
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:58,680
Speaker 3: sex again. They're toasting to blow jobs and toasting the

452
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 3: glitterists and all this stuff, and then and Julio drunkenly

453
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:06,800
Speaker 3: confess that they have had sex with each other's girlfriends

454
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 3: multiple times, and then Julio is like, itu mama tambien,

455
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 3: meaning I had sex with your mom, also hence the

456
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:17,080
Speaker 3: name of the movie.

457
00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 1: And at this point they're like woo.

458
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, They're like yeah, dude, awesome. And then the three

459
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 3: of them start dancing and they go back to their

460
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 3: room and they have a threesome I think, one of

461
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,120
Speaker 3: the most famous threesomes committed to film. Although upon the

462
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:44,160
Speaker 3: rewatch I was like, this doesn't I mean, it's like steamy,

463
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 3: but I'm like, I remember this being way more I

464
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:51,120
Speaker 3: don't know, like pornographical most than it is.

465
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 1: Like Caitlin's like, I've seen so much hardcore porn at

466
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 1: this point that it's like, so tme came to me

467
00:29:58,480 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: and it's weird.

468
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: You're not wrong, but anyway, So the next morning, Luisa

469
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 3: tells the guys that she's going to stay with Chewi

470
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 3: and Maybell for a few more days, so she parts

471
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: ways with Tonch and Julio, who returned to Mexico City

472
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 3: and then drift apart as friends. We cut two months

473
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 3: later where they bump into each other for the first

474
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 3: time in like a year. Because it's like the following summer,

475
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 3: they decide to get coffee and catch up, and to

476
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 3: Notch reveals to Julio that Luisa passed away not long

477
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:40,560
Speaker 3: after they parted ways. She had cancer, which she found

478
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 3: out about right before she went on that road trip

479
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 3: with them, or.

480
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: That I thought that was a little unclear that it

481
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 1: was like I think that she maybe found out that

482
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,720
Speaker 1: the cancer was past the point of no return or something.

483
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: Oh maybe, yeah, I wasn't clear. And the way that

484
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 1: she talked to Hannah on the phone, like if he

485
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: knew that she had cancer but that it wasn't terminal,

486
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: or like to what degree that he knew. But I

487
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: think that maybe he didn't know, because otherwise he probably

488
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:12,239
Speaker 1: would have caught on. So like she knew that it

489
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 1: was terminal and maybe was like trying to hang in

490
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: the relationship as long as she felt it was possibly

491
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 1: treatable or I don't know, I'm not totally sure. I

492
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 1: fe like it was left pretty open. Who knew what?

493
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, I think Hannah they didn't know. And she

494
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,600
Speaker 2: finds out like right before the trip. So she finds that.

495
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 3: Because we see her at a doctor's appointment where she's

496
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 3: like picking up test results, and I feel like it's

497
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 3: at that appointment where I don't know if she learns

498
00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,320
Speaker 3: about the cancer for the first time in that moment,

499
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: or she just learns that whatever illness she had was terminal. Yeah,

500
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 3: but I think it's implied that she learns that she

501
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 3: only has very limited amount of time left prior to

502
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 3: the trip, which is sort of what motivates her to

503
00:31:58,120 --> 00:32:04,440
Speaker 3: go on. Absolutely anyway, so they discuss Luisa having passed away,

504
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:08,800
Speaker 3: and then they part ways again and that meeting is

505
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 3: the last time they will ever see each other. The end,

506
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: and then I'm crying. So that's the movie. Let's take

507
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 3: another quick break and we'll come back to discuss Where

508
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:34,440
Speaker 3: shall we start.

509
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:39,480
Speaker 2: I want to start with the cass Okay, the case

510
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:45,280
Speaker 2: between them was like a very big deal in Mexico because,

511
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,040
Speaker 2: as I told you, we knew those guys as kids,

512
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 2: as child actors. Yeah, and it was like the first

513
00:32:54,080 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 2: time I think that cultural products that I saw was

514
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 2: like criticizing toxic male friendships. Well, I don't know if

515
00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 2: it's a criticism, but it was the first time I

516
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 2: saw something that implied that these toxic, corny guys who

517
00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:24,400
Speaker 2: are like hyper masculine and hyper sexual are in the

518
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:29,280
Speaker 2: closet or something like that. It started a conversation, and

519
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:33,160
Speaker 2: I was just reading an interview with Alfonso quarn that

520
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:38,680
Speaker 2: said that some people at the cinema in Mexico started boeing,

521
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:44,600
Speaker 2: oh wow when that happened. Yeah, because it was a

522
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 2: big shock. But I loved it. I think it was

523
00:33:48,560 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 2: very bold. And I was like seventeen years old when

524
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 2: I watch it, and it made me think. It made

525
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,960
Speaker 2: me like, Wow, all these guys in my high school

526
00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 2: who are like very toxic and very muchural, secretly want

527
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 2: to kiss each other.

528
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 3: So yeah, I haven't seen an awful lot of Mexican

529
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:18,920
Speaker 3: cinema or like, depictions of queer romance or sexuality pretty rare,

530
00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:20,720
Speaker 3: or at least at this time.

531
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:25,000
Speaker 2: No, they didn't exist. Everything in Mexican cinema before this

532
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:33,759
Speaker 2: was either chadros with their big sombredos and guns and

533
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 2: stealing women singing and or there was a period in

534
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: the eighties and nineties when all the Mexican movies were

535
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: raunchy comedies and women were barely there. They were objects.

536
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,839
Speaker 2: They were wearing biginnis and having no dialogue. Or in

537
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 2: the sixties seventies, the luchador movies that were like superhero movies,

538
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 2: like our Mexican superhero movies, where the luchadors were heroes

539
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: and rescued women. Maybe there were there were not very

540
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,680
Speaker 2: popular movies that were about gay romance, but we didn't

541
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 2: see anything like that before.

542
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 3: Not in the mainstream. No, I mean, that's not dissimilar

543
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,960
Speaker 3: from American cinema.

544
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: But I think it is really I mean, I listened

545
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 1: to a few interviews that Alfonso Quaron did when this

546
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,280
Speaker 1: movie came out, and then also at the twentieth anniversary

547
00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 1: point of this movie, and it is really fascinated here.

548
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:50,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's really admirable that such an established,

549
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:55,760
Speaker 1: successful director wanted to go back and create a movie

550
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: that engaged with masculinity, engaged with the politics and class

551
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:08,520
Speaker 1: politics of his home country, and engage with queerness in

552
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,840
Speaker 1: a I think good faith way at a time where

553
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: like no one anywhere was doing that and like it

554
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: could get you booed, and it just feels I know,

555
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,600
Speaker 1: on the show, we hate to hand it to a man,

556
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: but I really do. I mean, I think, like, especially

557
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:30,480
Speaker 1: because of how established he was in Mexico, in Hollywood

558
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 1: and everywhere at this point, to go back to tell

559
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,759
Speaker 1: a story that is clearly very personally important to him

560
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 1: and also knowingly risky for the time is really cool.

561
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 1: And I don't know if like this movie engages with

562
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: ideas of masculinity and puts it in context with the

563
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: politics of the time and place without excusing the behavior

564
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: way that is, like I think better than a lot

565
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 1: of movies try to discuss masculinity.

566
00:37:06,680 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 6: Now, yes, it's yeah, I agree, And I think we've

567
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,839
Speaker 6: talked about this before in different episodes.

568
00:37:17,040 --> 00:37:23,440
Speaker 3: How there's this weird disparity between like almost every movie

569
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 3: being about men, but so few movies actually centering a

570
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 3: compelling male friendship in the way that I think this

571
00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 3: movie does. And yes, these characters are pretty toxic. They

572
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,400
Speaker 3: have a lot of love for each other, but it

573
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 3: comes unraveled because of their insecurities and you know, their

574
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 3: toxicity and their fragility, all of that stuff. But it's

575
00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 3: just interesting to see that closely examined in a way

576
00:37:55,640 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: that just feels so extremely grounded and real, Like so

577
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 3: many you know whatever, seventeen eighteen year old boys are

578
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 3: exactly this way and their friendships are exactly this way,

579
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 3: and it's just really interesting to me to see a

580
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 3: male friendship portrayed so authentically in a way that like, yes,

581
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:24,560
Speaker 3: these characters they're likable to me, but I can also

582
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,920
Speaker 3: absolutely but they're also the one recognize that they're like yeah,

583
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:28,960
Speaker 3: like they're.

584
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:34,439
Speaker 1: Because exactly like there's such a juvenile like anyone who's

585
00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 1: ever been around teenage boys with something to prove kid

586
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 1: relate with this where it's and this is something I

587
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: remember from my teenage experience in people of all genders

588
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:52,480
Speaker 1: to sort of deflect their own complicated feelings towards the

589
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:57,120
Speaker 1: people around them, because it seems like for Julio and

590
00:38:57,200 --> 00:39:02,160
Speaker 1: to not exploring their sexuality is not allowed, and like

591
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:05,399
Speaker 1: it is not just like a societal block, it's also

592
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,640
Speaker 1: a mental block where it's like you cannot allow yourself

593
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 1: to think that this is something you could explore. And

594
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: so there's like this deflectiveness that I feel like we

595
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,080
Speaker 1: probably all experience as teenagers that instead of being honest

596
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 1: with how they're feeling about themselves or about their own experiences,

597
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,640
Speaker 1: it's easier to default to what you think you're supposed

598
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: to say and how you think you're supposed to treat

599
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:33,440
Speaker 1: other people. And in the case of these teenage boys,

600
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: as I think is still common, Like, it ends up

601
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:42,840
Speaker 1: being deflective in a way that is cruel to girls

602
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,160
Speaker 1: and women that they know, in a way that is

603
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: like because they're unwilling or feel unable in ways that

604
00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: can be understandable, but it doesn't make it the fault

605
00:39:52,320 --> 00:39:54,480
Speaker 1: of the women in their lives. And it's like in

606
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: the way that it's written and the way that it's

607
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:01,120
Speaker 1: performed in this movie, it feels clear that that's what's

608
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 1: happening and that it's pretty incredible because I think sometimes

609
00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 1: when we see those narratives played out, it's presented as well,

610
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: you know, this is how guys are because dudes rocks, right,

611
00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 1: But the way that this story in this Friendship plays

612
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:23,280
Speaker 1: out demonstrates that they are not just projecting and being

613
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:27,400
Speaker 1: unkind to the people around them, they're also trapped in

614
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:32,040
Speaker 1: a like vision of themselves that they can't fully be

615
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: themselves like and it's just everyone in this movie is

616
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 1: both experiencing joy and experiencing connection but is also still

617
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: in like a prison of themselves in a way that

618
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:46,880
Speaker 1: feels like I think that was why it was like

619
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 1: hard at some points to watch because you're like, oh no,

620
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 1: that's everybody.

621
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: And the narrator those a great job of explaining to

622
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:05,200
Speaker 2: us what the inner conflicts are these characters and the

623
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,640
Speaker 2: outer conflicts, because the political climate in Mexico at that

624
00:41:10,719 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: time is so important. It seems like it's not that important,

625
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: but it is because it happens in nineteen ninety nine.

626
00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 2: Nineteen ninety nine was the last year of the PRE

627
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 2: that was the political party that governed Mexico for seventy

628
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: one years. So the Notts father is a politician from

629
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:42,000
Speaker 2: the PRE and their reign is ending.

630
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:46,720
Speaker 3: The castle is crumbling, and they.

631
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 2: Are being groomed. I hate that word nowadays, but since

632
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 2: they are kids, they are like, so you're going to

633
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,439
Speaker 2: be in office, and they're preparing them to follow the

634
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:06,439
Speaker 2: steps of their parents. I know who these guys are.

635
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,239
Speaker 2: And so the part when he says he wants to

636
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:13,040
Speaker 2: be a writer, it's very important because you know he

637
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: will not since the narator says he's the son of

638
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 2: a politician in power, and the president is at the wedding.

639
00:42:20,719 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this.

640
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,799
Speaker 3: Yeah I didn't mention it in the recap, but yeah,

641
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 3: he's there, and.

642
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,160
Speaker 2: There's a moment where the father says, Stenogia, if we're

643
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,280
Speaker 2: still at a president. Did you go to say hello

644
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:37,800
Speaker 2: to the president like you will be working for him?

645
00:42:38,239 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 2: But then the next year that political party doesn't win

646
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: the elections and it's like the start of the real

647
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,360
Speaker 2: democracy in Mexico. And it's very symbolic of the journey

648
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 2: because they because at the same time the system of

649
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,800
Speaker 2: movement in Mexico crumbles, their friendship grumbles. Is something like that,

650
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:02,400
Speaker 2: Wow symbolism.

651
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 1: I was like, I had questions about that for you, Audrianna,

652
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: because yeah, I did some reading into like what is

653
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: the political moment that we are falling into here? And

654
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: this is again like dufus American where I read scholarly

655
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: journal Wikipedia. But that's fascinating to know because it does

656
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 1: feel like there's a lot of different ways to approach

657
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:31,000
Speaker 1: the dynamics in this movie, where obviously I think we

658
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,520
Speaker 1: sort of default to looking at the gender dynamics in

659
00:43:34,719 --> 00:43:37,480
Speaker 1: the movie and the class dynamics, but we don't fully

660
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:42,720
Speaker 1: understand the cultural dynamics. And it's clear that Quorn wants

661
00:43:42,800 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 1: us to engage with all of those things at once,

662
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: which I think is like part of what makes this

663
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: movie challenging and brilliant. If you're not originally from Mexico,

664
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,760
Speaker 1: is that it just feels very clear where you hear

665
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,880
Speaker 1: how the characters talk, you some times find out what

666
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: happens to them in the future. Sometimes the narration in

667
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 1: this movie is so fucking cool because it will just

668
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:09,880
Speaker 1: stop the action of the movie and draw your attention

669
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:14,720
Speaker 1: to a character sometimes that never comes back to contextualize

670
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: where you are, and also contextualize what the main characters

671
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 1: of the movie are either ignoring or just sort of

672
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:27,640
Speaker 1: taking in stride in a way that you wouldn't question

673
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,640
Speaker 1: unless the movie is taking you out of it to

674
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: say like, hey, this is so normalized, or the privileges

675
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,040
Speaker 1: that these characters have are such that they can just

676
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 1: ignore this, right. And then sometimes it's about people. Sometimes

677
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,760
Speaker 1: it's about the history of a place that they fully

678
00:44:44,800 --> 00:44:49,399
Speaker 1: don't know or couldn't possibly intuitively know. And I think

679
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: it's really cool that I don't know. It seems like

680
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 1: Quorn has an interest in literally everything in this movie,

681
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,839
Speaker 1: and it has like in a way that I think

682
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: most road trip movies. I mean, I think of like

683
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:02,960
Speaker 1: American road trip movies where it's like, Okay, we have

684
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,920
Speaker 1: to stop somewhere in the South and we're going to

685
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,680
Speaker 1: do a really cartoonish depiction of the American South, and

686
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: then we're going to stop in Vegas and we're gonna

687
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:12,759
Speaker 1: do a really cartoonish depiction of Vegas. And they're all

688
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:18,760
Speaker 1: set pieces, but there's no intellectual interest in who lives

689
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 1: there or what the history is, right, and this movie

690
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:26,319
Speaker 1: will interrupt a silly scene about blow jobs to tell

691
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,200
Speaker 1: you something about the history of the land they're driving over.

692
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: It's really cool.

693
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 3: Almost always with an emphasis on class disparity or like

694
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 3: the little stories will be a working class person or

695
00:45:41,560 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 3: a person living in poverty dealt with this or is

696
00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,080
Speaker 3: dealing with this, or you'll see examples of like people

697
00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 3: being detained by probably corrupt cops and things like that.

698
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,320
Speaker 3: And then there's one scene in particular that really sticks

699
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 3: out to me where they're driving past this small village

700
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:12,160
Speaker 3: called Tepelmeme, where Tonoch's nanny Leo is from. We get

701
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 3: voiceover about how she immigrated to Mexico City when she

702
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:21,440
Speaker 3: was thirteen. She is the person who raised him from birth.

703
00:46:21,920 --> 00:46:26,320
Speaker 3: He called her his mom for the first four years

704
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 3: of his life. You also see a scene with her

705
00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 3: earlier in the movie where like the phone's ringing off

706
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,880
Speaker 3: the hook to Nocha's right beside it. He doesn't do

707
00:46:36,960 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 3: anything to answer it. He's like expecting her to answer it.

708
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:43,560
Speaker 3: She has brought him food, and then he also kind

709
00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 3: of like very dismissively sort of shows her away. So

710
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 3: it's just like showing the way that this rich kid

711
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: son of a politician is like so dismissive to like

712
00:46:55,239 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 3: a woman who helped raise him. Also, she's an Indigenous woman.

713
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 2: And another fun fact, he's wearing Sapatista's T shirt in

714
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:10,440
Speaker 2: that scene. His nanny brings him the sandwich. He's wearing.

715
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:13,839
Speaker 2: The Sapatistas, I don't know you've heard about them are

716
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:20,520
Speaker 2: like an indigenous rights movement in Mexico. They're very important.

717
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: And yeah, so while he's treating his nanny like garbage,

718
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: he's wearing the face of an indigenous leader in his

719
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:31,799
Speaker 2: tea shirt.

720
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,640
Speaker 3: Okay, hypocrisy, sir.

721
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:39,680
Speaker 1: That moment was a huge for class that I feel

722
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:44,680
Speaker 1: like Quarn revisits in Roma, which is a whole other

723
00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: discussion and a whole other episode, because that's a very

724
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 1: separate discussion. But Alfonso Quarn, it seems like the experiences

725
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:56,640
Speaker 1: of the teen boys are closer to what he experienced

726
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: growing up. He grew up with a lot of privilege

727
00:47:59,080 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 1: and sort of continue to explore that in roma, which

728
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,239
Speaker 1: we'll cover it down the line. And he also wrote

729
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: it with his brother, which also feels telling where it

730
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: seems like and the interviews would sort of indicate it's

731
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: not autobiographical, but there's a lot of themselves in the

732
00:48:16,280 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 1: way that the two young men are presented. And the

733
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 1: other class moment that really hit for me was in

734
00:48:24,040 --> 00:48:27,000
Speaker 1: the way that the boys relate to each other and

735
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: just even in touching on how they react to each

736
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: other's bathrooms in a very class driven way, where one,

737
00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:39,719
Speaker 1: when the working class character is in the rich character's bathroom,

738
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: he tries to erase the smell of shit, and then

739
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: when the rich character is in the working class characters bathroom,

740
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:51,839
Speaker 1: he doesn't want to touch anything because it's like, you know,

741
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: he seems to feel that it is dirty, less or whatever.

742
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:57,840
Speaker 1: And I think that that is like a complicated class

743
00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: dynamic that literally exists in the same you know, half

744
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 1: a mile in any neighborhood, and it seems like it

745
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,200
Speaker 1: does for these guys, and a way that I think

746
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:12,360
Speaker 1: it's very easy to say, like I'm a class hero

747
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: because like, sure, I have a lot of privileges, but

748
00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,800
Speaker 1: look at my friend over here where it's like these

749
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,239
Speaker 1: very intimate moments that are actually telling.

750
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:26,000
Speaker 2: And this is in my notes. Julio's his underwear, he's

751
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:28,800
Speaker 2: always wearing like tidy whities.

752
00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

753
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:34,800
Speaker 2: And then the brand, the brand he's wearing is Rambros.

754
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 2: This is not sponsor, like Rambros. Underwear is like the

755
00:49:43,360 --> 00:49:49,240
Speaker 2: cheapest underwear brand in Mexico. And it was very deliberate. Okay,

756
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,239
Speaker 2: I saw a documentary. I saw it on YouTube. I

757
00:49:53,239 --> 00:49:56,400
Speaker 2: don't know if it was like a DVV something, but

758
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:00,040
Speaker 2: Guile didn't want to use them. They didn't want to

759
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:04,520
Speaker 2: wear them because they're like the cheapest. But it was deliberate.

760
00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 2: And during the wedding scene, he's wearing like a shirt

761
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:15,839
Speaker 2: that looks like from the seventies with waves.

762
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:18,279
Speaker 1: Like those like roughly yeah.

763
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's wearing that like clearly something that was like

764
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:29,799
Speaker 2: from his father or yeah. And when they get in

765
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:33,919
Speaker 2: the fight in the second fight, when the notch says

766
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 2: that he slept with Julia's girlfriend, Julio's pits in the

767
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 2: window of the car. Do you remember that the subtitles

768
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 2: don't express what the note says, but he says something horrible.

769
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:54,600
Speaker 2: He says, like a like a very classist slur in Spanish?

770
00:50:54,719 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: Is this what translates to hill billy?

771
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 3: The version I had watched. The English translation translated it

772
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 3: to hick. So he's like, Oh, you're such a hick?

773
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 2: What's a hicks?

774
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: I think it's it's all sort of the same thing,

775
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 1: but it's not a slur. It's an insult. It's a

776
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,440
Speaker 1: class based insult, but it's not a slur necessarily.

777
00:51:15,719 --> 00:51:19,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, but in Spanish she says a slur. Oh.

778
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:24,720
Speaker 2: He says, you had to show off you being a

779
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 2: slur A class is slur. And it feels like it's

780
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: been inside of him. I don't know the way. The

781
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:34,239
Speaker 2: way he delivers this line is like.

782
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,800
Speaker 3: He's been like holding it back their whole friendship. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

783
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,399
Speaker 2: That's how it feels to me. And there's a there's

784
00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 2: another moment when Louisa is telling them that she wanted

785
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:53,000
Speaker 2: to travel but she couldn't. Julia says, yeah, yeah, traveling,

786
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:57,600
Speaker 2: traveling is cool or something like that. They're not. Says

787
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:01,319
Speaker 2: you haven't even been on a plane something, right, So

788
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:03,319
Speaker 2: they build up to this moment.

789
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 3: It's really interesting to watch like what their dynamic is

790
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,400
Speaker 3: like and what they are willing to put out in

791
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:17,840
Speaker 3: the open versus withhold because for example, like they will

792
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 3: jerk off near each other and they will eventually kiss

793
00:52:25,160 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 3: each other in it's while they're drunk. It's unclear if

794
00:52:29,520 --> 00:52:32,400
Speaker 3: they would be willing to do that if they were sober.

795
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 3: It's unclear exactly what their sexualities are. That was just

796
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,640
Speaker 3: sort of like a moment of experimentation. But there's like

797
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 3: a sexual component to what they are willing or not

798
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 3: willing to do around each other. And then there's like

799
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 3: we said, those sort of class things where they're best

800
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 3: friends and they're very close, but they are harboring these

801
00:52:56,680 --> 00:53:00,400
Speaker 3: prejudices and or insecurities about their class differ friends and

802
00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 3: in a way that again like boils to the surface.

803
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: Sorry it's my hilarious joke.

804
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 3: Oh sorry, what was it said?

805
00:53:06,680 --> 00:53:11,840
Speaker 1: Prejudices and or something and or and it makes you

806
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 1: fake it really doesn't know. I again, like this movie

807
00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 1: does so much with not just how masculinity is this

808
00:53:24,400 --> 00:53:27,719
Speaker 1: big performance and you know, femininity is a performance, and

809
00:53:28,000 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: but in this movie, it's like masculinity is a performance

810
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: that hides and obscures and avoids and deflects all of

811
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: these other things, and like you're just saying Kitlyn and Adriana,

812
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: because I also was like, how is this being translated?

813
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,560
Speaker 1: What is hillbilly in this context where it's like that

814
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 1: is what is actually being held back in someone that

815
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:57,600
Speaker 1: they very obviously love but don't have the maturity or

816
00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,359
Speaker 1: life experience to be able to like square next to

817
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:05,920
Speaker 1: how they've been conditioned to see the world. And they

818
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,440
Speaker 1: clearly love each other, but their classes are so different

819
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: that they inherently are judging each other. And they clearly

820
00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:18,759
Speaker 1: love each other, but they can't get into this conversation

821
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: without using a woman as a vessel for the conversation

822
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 1: in this weird way with their girlfriends or with Louisa

823
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:31,319
Speaker 1: or with whoever. And I wanted to ask you about

824
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:35,600
Speaker 1: how you felt about this. There was a friend that

825
00:54:35,640 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: we never see who is gay, Who is gay? Daniel Yes,

826
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: who comes up over and over, And also I thought

827
00:54:43,719 --> 00:54:45,680
Speaker 1: most telling they comes up in the final scene of

828
00:54:45,719 --> 00:54:49,919
Speaker 1: the movie that I thought was an indication that these

829
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:53,600
Speaker 1: characters we don't know and maybe they don't even know

830
00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: at this point. They're very young, but like seem to

831
00:54:57,719 --> 00:55:01,440
Speaker 1: at least think about what it would be like to

832
00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:05,440
Speaker 1: be able to identify safely as queer in some way.

833
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:10,279
Speaker 2: Because in that last scene, they're asking about people they know.

834
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,759
Speaker 2: They ask about Savah.

835
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:15,480
Speaker 3: Yeah that is the stoner friend.

836
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, the stoner friend, the.

837
00:55:17,239 --> 00:55:18,720
Speaker 1: Guy who gives them the bad map.

838
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,720
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah yeah yeah.

839
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,880
Speaker 2: And then I don't know who asked who, but they

840
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 2: ask about daniel and I think Julio says, no, his

841
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 2: his father threw him out of the house, and then says, oh,

842
00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:36,280
Speaker 2: that's bad, and Julia says, no, no, he's very happy.

843
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's happy because he has a boyfriend and you know,

844
00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 3: the romantic relationship will fix all your problems.

845
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,560
Speaker 1: He he well, no, that conversation felt I don't know, Adria,

846
00:55:48,600 --> 00:55:50,719
Speaker 1: I'm curious because it felt like that. Yeah, that conversation

847
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,279
Speaker 1: was like also politically loaded, because they were like, oh,

848
00:55:54,360 --> 00:55:58,080
Speaker 1: Danielle is really happy, and they also in the translation

849
00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,960
Speaker 1: I watched that, they're like, well, he's full queen now,

850
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:05,200
Speaker 1: so he got kicked out of his parents' house. So

851
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 1: I feel like it also like indicated there is a

852
00:56:07,800 --> 00:56:13,200
Speaker 1: level of like he had to sacrifice his family in

853
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:15,960
Speaker 1: order to live authentically, and it feels like that is

854
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:17,680
Speaker 1: like a little bit of what is at the core

855
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:21,759
Speaker 1: of the problem with Julio and is like it extends

856
00:56:21,800 --> 00:56:26,799
Speaker 1: beyond their sexuality. It's a very multi layered issue, but

857
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,640
Speaker 1: there are all of these things, some personal, some political,

858
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:36,160
Speaker 1: some both that are preventing Julio and Tonoch from living

859
00:56:36,280 --> 00:56:40,239
Speaker 1: as themselves authentically. And I feel like anytime Danielle was

860
00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,439
Speaker 1: brought up, especially because it's not a character we meet

861
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,480
Speaker 1: or know, and it feels like he's brought up more

862
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:48,960
Speaker 1: as a symbol, is like, well, we have a friend

863
00:56:49,080 --> 00:56:53,239
Speaker 1: who is out, who is living authentically, but there was

864
00:56:53,800 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 1: all of this loss and shame heaped upon this person

865
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 1: we care about as a result of them living onthentically.

866
00:57:01,360 --> 00:57:05,640
Speaker 1: And is that something that I'm prepared for? And I

867
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: think for them the answer, at least in the time

868
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,040
Speaker 1: of their life that we're seeing, that answer is no,

869
00:57:10,840 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: and it's presented non judgmentally. But I don't know. Yeah,

870
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:17,480
Speaker 1: I feel like the specter of Danielle was really interesting

871
00:57:17,560 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 1: to me.

872
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they ask each other which universities they are enrolling,

873
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 2: and they not says ITAM, which is they're not She's

874
00:57:31,120 --> 00:57:36,720
Speaker 2: going to study economy at ITAM. That is every politician

875
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:41,240
Speaker 2: in Mexico has studied economy at ITAM. So when he

876
00:57:41,320 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 2: says economia is like he's going to be a politician.

877
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,760
Speaker 2: So there we know that he's not going to be

878
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:54,280
Speaker 2: a writer. And Julio says, biology at WAM and ONAM

879
00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 2: is a public university that is free. Universities are free

880
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:01,800
Speaker 2: in Mexico.

881
00:58:01,920 --> 00:58:04,680
Speaker 3: Brad, I'm so jealous.

882
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:10,160
Speaker 2: And biology in that university is like, it's not they're

883
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:17,120
Speaker 2: not hippies that they're kind of okay, they go camping.

884
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:21,840
Speaker 2: They have this fame of going camping and living in nature.

885
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,600
Speaker 2: And yeah, so when they tell each other what they're

886
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,640
Speaker 2: going to study, that's how you know that that they will.

887
00:58:30,960 --> 00:58:34,280
Speaker 3: That they never be friends again. They they're on very

888
00:58:34,320 --> 00:58:35,120
Speaker 3: different paths.

889
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's so oh god, there's so many layers

890
00:58:42,440 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: to this damn story. It's so good. Like, I that's

891
00:58:46,920 --> 00:58:49,880
Speaker 1: so fascinating to know because it's like you can sort

892
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:51,920
Speaker 1: of get a whiff of that if you don't know that,

893
00:58:52,040 --> 00:58:53,960
Speaker 1: but if you have the knowledge, you're like, oh, yeah,

894
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,800
Speaker 1: that is exactly what he's trying to say.

895
00:58:56,600 --> 00:59:00,720
Speaker 2: And have you read about the names the character's names.

896
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:02,160
Speaker 3: No, oh no, tell us.

897
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:07,320
Speaker 2: Okay, So Alfonso and Carlos Quarren named their characters. All

898
00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:13,480
Speaker 2: of their last names are from Mexican historical figures. So

899
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:18,840
Speaker 2: Julia's last name is Sapata, Julias Sabata, and Sabata was

900
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:26,240
Speaker 2: like revolutionary leader. The not last name is it and

901
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:32,360
Speaker 2: Itorde was like another historical figure, but he was like

902
00:59:32,480 --> 00:59:38,120
Speaker 2: a rich historical figure, like another revolutionary, but like a

903
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 2: high class person.

904
00:59:40,200 --> 00:59:41,560
Speaker 1: And like the privileged.

905
00:59:41,640 --> 00:59:46,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like a rich revolutionary. I should have read

906
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:49,360
Speaker 2: more about these characters before telling you this, but.

907
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,439
Speaker 1: We know nothing. So this is great.

908
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:58,400
Speaker 2: But Louis's last name is Cortes. It is the last

909
00:59:58,440 --> 01:00:02,320
Speaker 2: name of ernand Cortez, that like the biggest conquistador.

910
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:06,080
Speaker 1: Yes, and then I mentioned that was it that was

911
01:00:06,120 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 1: almost named Ernan?

912
01:00:08,960 --> 01:00:09,360
Speaker 4: Yes? Yes.

913
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:15,120
Speaker 2: The Generator says his father came with a lot of

914
01:00:15,400 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 2: nationalism because he was just elected for office and then

915
01:00:20,520 --> 01:00:23,440
Speaker 2: he named him the notes. Yeah, so this is like

916
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:27,440
Speaker 2: another thing from Mexico. We grew up with this idea

917
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 2: that all the races are mixed and there's just only

918
01:00:31,040 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 2: one Mexican race, which is a lie, and racism exists.

919
01:00:36,840 --> 01:00:43,760
Speaker 2: So a lot of white rich people believe that they

920
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:50,920
Speaker 2: own indigenous Mexican traditions and names, and you see like

921
01:00:51,480 --> 01:00:58,360
Speaker 2: basically blonde women wearing like indigenous clothing because they they

922
01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,680
Speaker 2: believe they own it, like they have as much claim

923
01:01:02,960 --> 01:01:07,720
Speaker 2: to the culture as knows people themselves, and it's it's

924
01:01:07,760 --> 01:01:11,080
Speaker 2: a mess. Yeah, But you see these rich people naming

925
01:01:11,160 --> 01:01:12,040
Speaker 2: their kids.

926
01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:16,720
Speaker 3: The note or because that's an indigenous name, right, Yeah, it's.

927
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 2: A now name, so it's very common. So when you

928
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,320
Speaker 2: know his name is the Notch, it's like it's one

929
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:25,280
Speaker 2: of those.

930
01:01:25,680 --> 01:01:28,960
Speaker 3: Okay, That's something I actually wanted to touch on a

931
01:01:29,000 --> 01:01:32,600
Speaker 3: little bit as well, because I mean, Diego Luna and

932
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 3: Gail Garcia Bernal are white people, right. This is something

933
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 3: that I I mean, I've had a lot of confusion

934
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 3: about this throughout a large chunk of my life. I

935
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 3: think a lot of Americans in general, especially non Latin

936
01:01:50,200 --> 01:01:55,640
Speaker 3: X Americans, assume that if you're from Latin America, you

937
01:01:55,800 --> 01:01:59,960
Speaker 3: are not white. That like Latini dad is a race

938
01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:03,160
Speaker 3: and it is not white. And I think that there's

939
01:02:03,200 --> 01:02:07,160
Speaker 3: a lot of confusion about that there are white Mexicans

940
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:11,480
Speaker 3: and white people across all of Latin America. Because I've

941
01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,960
Speaker 3: like had conversations with people where they'd be like, oh, no,

942
01:02:15,000 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 3: they're not white, they're Mexican, and I'm like, well, you

943
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,920
Speaker 3: can be both, yes, But like, what I wanted to

944
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,440
Speaker 3: mention that I think is worth mentioning is that it

945
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:28,439
Speaker 3: is cool that this movie does, you know, pan over

946
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:31,919
Speaker 3: and like tell a little tiny story about characters who

947
01:02:32,160 --> 01:02:38,560
Speaker 3: are indigenous, or who are elderly, or who are struggling

948
01:02:38,720 --> 01:02:43,080
Speaker 3: with poverty, but it really just like still kind of

949
01:02:43,120 --> 01:02:46,480
Speaker 3: puts those characters in the background and still focuses on

950
01:02:47,520 --> 01:02:54,160
Speaker 3: these white characters with European features and European backgrounds, and

951
01:02:55,120 --> 01:03:01,040
Speaker 3: that is a very movie thing to do. Yeah, but yeah,

952
01:03:01,080 --> 01:03:03,479
Speaker 3: I just wanted to explore that a little bit because

953
01:03:03,480 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 3: I think there's still so much confusion about race and

954
01:03:07,280 --> 01:03:14,120
Speaker 3: ethnicity as it relates to Latin American communities and people.

955
01:03:14,240 --> 01:03:18,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, yeah, there's a lot of diversity. There's Afro

956
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:25,680
Speaker 2: Mexican people, and there are Indigenous Mexican people, and there

957
01:03:25,680 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 2: are people who are descendants of European and there are

958
01:03:29,600 --> 01:03:31,080
Speaker 2: all the mixes in between.

959
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:36,200
Speaker 3: Because you described it to me before as like in

960
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:41,000
Speaker 3: the US colonizers there was a lot of a lot

961
01:03:41,040 --> 01:03:46,439
Speaker 3: more genocide and in Latin America it was a lot

962
01:03:46,520 --> 01:03:55,680
Speaker 3: more rape, yes, right, And like forcing their like eurocentric

963
01:03:55,880 --> 01:04:01,040
Speaker 3: and like you know, Christian values onto the indigenous population.

964
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:06,640
Speaker 3: Versus in the northern part of North America, it was

965
01:04:06,760 --> 01:04:09,320
Speaker 3: more just eradication.

966
01:04:09,880 --> 01:04:14,320
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, Indigenous people here in the North don't exist. We

967
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:17,360
Speaker 2: don't want them to exist. We put them away. And

968
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:22,000
Speaker 2: in the South it was like, oh, indigenous people want

969
01:04:22,040 --> 01:04:25,840
Speaker 2: to be like us, Let's give them kids that look

970
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 2: like us. Jesus and it's yeah, it's both are horrible.

971
01:04:32,680 --> 01:04:35,600
Speaker 1: It's true. No, I mean this is like I don't know, Like,

972
01:04:35,840 --> 01:04:39,840
Speaker 1: as I was listening to your conversation, it was just like, oh, yeah,

973
01:04:39,840 --> 01:04:42,280
Speaker 1: of course that's the most American thing you'd do. Is

974
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:45,720
Speaker 1: also feel like, oh yeah, we did the main way

975
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:51,920
Speaker 1: of how to suppress an indigenous race, which is the worst, Caitlin.

976
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:53,800
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm very much in the same boat as

977
01:04:53,840 --> 01:04:57,240
Speaker 1: you where I feel like I was conditioned to view

978
01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:02,360
Speaker 1: Mexico in a very particular way. It was very homogeneous

979
01:05:03,040 --> 01:05:05,680
Speaker 1: and in a way that was I was like not

980
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: conditioned to consider gradients like race, class, gender, that I

981
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,680
Speaker 1: was not encouraged to look at here, and of course,

982
01:05:14,720 --> 01:05:18,200
Speaker 1: like everywhere is going to have their separate issues, and

983
01:05:18,240 --> 01:05:20,680
Speaker 1: that the issues of oppression are going to be unique

984
01:05:20,680 --> 01:05:25,400
Speaker 1: to where you are. And I wonder, because I haven't

985
01:05:25,400 --> 01:05:27,440
Speaker 1: seen Roma since it came out, I remember some of

986
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:31,760
Speaker 1: the criticism that it was met with, and it seems

987
01:05:31,840 --> 01:05:35,080
Speaker 1: like this is an issue that this specific director has

988
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,480
Speaker 1: an interest in and also has a lot of criticism

989
01:05:39,640 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 1: around his attempts to tackle it, because as far as

990
01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:48,840
Speaker 1: it pertains to this movie, I think that there's based

991
01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:50,720
Speaker 1: on what we were just talking about, it seems as

992
01:05:50,760 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: if he wants to acknowledge the diversity in Mexico without

993
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:04,160
Speaker 1: centering it and any way, and that's why he is

994
01:06:04,280 --> 01:06:08,360
Speaker 1: like centering these characters that sort of more closely represent

995
01:06:08,440 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 1: his experience as well as a woman from Spain who

996
01:06:14,320 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 1: is like an outsider in Mexico. And so Adriana movie,

997
01:06:19,320 --> 01:06:22,880
Speaker 1: you disagree, and I'm not fully understanding. It doesn't feel

998
01:06:23,000 --> 01:06:29,520
Speaker 1: quite like set dressing. But indigenous characters and characters that

999
01:06:29,600 --> 01:06:35,040
Speaker 1: represent any sort of diversity within race or class in

1000
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:40,680
Speaker 1: Mexico seem like it's to contextualize versus to give any

1001
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,280
Speaker 1: arc or story. It's just to tell us where we

1002
01:06:44,320 --> 01:06:47,680
Speaker 1: are versus give us a character.

1003
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:53,000
Speaker 2: And I think quar On for people like him and

1004
01:06:53,080 --> 01:06:58,280
Speaker 2: the characters and me because yeah, I grew up in Mexico,

1005
01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:02,320
Speaker 2: but I grew up with a lot of privilege, So

1006
01:07:02,560 --> 01:07:05,400
Speaker 2: you know, you live in a country with problems and

1007
01:07:05,480 --> 01:07:10,080
Speaker 2: with inequalities. And I think what quo On wanted to

1008
01:07:10,120 --> 01:07:13,720
Speaker 2: reflect in the movie is that when you're a stupid,

1009
01:07:13,800 --> 01:07:21,320
Speaker 2: privileged teenage person, you see those problems as background. Yeah,

1010
01:07:21,640 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 2: and I'm not saying it's okay, but you live in

1011
01:07:25,320 --> 01:07:32,200
Speaker 2: a country with so much problems that you just mute them.

1012
01:07:32,640 --> 01:07:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. I think that like squaring that on Qua or

1013
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:42,040
Speaker 1: anyone person is not fair. And I do feel that

1014
01:07:42,040 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: that comes across and that most movies would not even

1015
01:07:46,280 --> 01:07:50,880
Speaker 1: draw your attention to what its centered protagonists are ignoring

1016
01:07:50,960 --> 01:07:53,200
Speaker 1: or missing. And I think that there's some value in that.

1017
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:58,080
Speaker 1: And again, like doing this episode it maybe want to

1018
01:07:58,120 --> 01:08:05,120
Speaker 1: revisit Roma and see how this director's attempts to address

1019
01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:08,000
Speaker 1: diversity evolved over time.

1020
01:08:09,040 --> 01:08:12,800
Speaker 2: But with Roma, it's because in this movie, I'm not

1021
01:08:12,840 --> 01:08:16,320
Speaker 2: saying it's okay, but it feels honest. He was a

1022
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:20,920
Speaker 2: privileged kid, so he's telling a story about privileged kids

1023
01:08:21,320 --> 01:08:26,559
Speaker 2: who ignore all the problems around them. And with Roma,

1024
01:08:26,920 --> 01:08:32,639
Speaker 2: he feels like he can talk about things that are

1025
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 2: not his stories.

1026
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: To tell, right, I don't know.

1027
01:08:38,320 --> 01:08:42,759
Speaker 2: I like Rama. It's a beautiful movie, and it's beautiful

1028
01:08:42,800 --> 01:08:46,840
Speaker 2: and Jelie size amazing and she's so good in it.

1029
01:08:46,920 --> 01:08:50,360
Speaker 2: But so many people say, and I agree, that it

1030
01:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,080
Speaker 2: maybe wasn't his story to tell.

1031
01:08:53,800 --> 01:08:57,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is like so much of the criticism that

1032
01:08:57,479 --> 01:09:01,080
Speaker 1: I feel came up around this movie. And we'll get

1033
01:09:01,120 --> 01:09:04,240
Speaker 1: into Rama when we talk about Roma. But also, yeah,

1034
01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,559
Speaker 1: it was so incredible in this movie, and she has

1035
01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:12,680
Speaker 1: barely worked since, right that I think she wasn't lostocause

1036
01:09:12,800 --> 01:09:16,720
Speaker 1: one of our greatest television shows up this time. But

1037
01:09:17,280 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: it just it really it is like a personal thing

1038
01:09:20,920 --> 01:09:23,679
Speaker 1: that I think we've seen over the years in this show,

1039
01:09:23,800 --> 01:09:27,520
Speaker 1: in just in movies where an actor gives an incredible

1040
01:09:27,520 --> 01:09:32,720
Speaker 1: performance and has a huge cultural moment, but it ends

1041
01:09:32,800 --> 01:09:37,120
Speaker 1: up seeming like it's in service of the director's moment,

1042
01:09:37,360 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 1: and then they are not given the opportunities down the

1043
01:09:39,800 --> 01:09:42,439
Speaker 1: line in the way that you would think. She is

1044
01:09:42,479 --> 01:09:46,040
Speaker 1: an Oscar nominated actress. She turned in what everyone says

1045
01:09:46,240 --> 01:09:50,160
Speaker 1: is an unbelievable debut performance, and we haven't really seen

1046
01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:51,920
Speaker 1: her in the five years since, and I just find

1047
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:52,960
Speaker 1: it so frustrated and.

1048
01:09:52,920 --> 01:09:57,520
Speaker 2: What she says, is that she has to decline roles

1049
01:09:57,640 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 2: because they're super offensive.

1050
01:10:00,120 --> 01:10:00,479
Speaker 1: Yes, this.

1051
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:05,160
Speaker 2: It's not that she hasn't been offered.

1052
01:10:05,000 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 3: Work, is just that the work she has been offered

1053
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 3: is racist.

1054
01:10:10,600 --> 01:10:11,760
Speaker 2: Right, something like that.

1055
01:10:11,880 --> 01:10:14,640
Speaker 1: And you're just like, this is not an issue that

1056
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:18,640
Speaker 1: the Timothy Shallow Maze of the world are encountering. And

1057
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,400
Speaker 1: it's like, you can be a very, very gifted actor

1058
01:10:21,479 --> 01:10:24,840
Speaker 1: and perhaps and I am, I guess subtweeting, but like

1059
01:10:25,200 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 1: a better actor and struggle to find the roles that

1060
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:32,920
Speaker 1: you deserve. That's not what we're talking about with this movie.

1061
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,280
Speaker 1: But Yeah, I was just sort of brought back because

1062
01:10:35,400 --> 01:10:37,280
Speaker 1: I forgot about this from when I had seen it

1063
01:10:37,320 --> 01:10:43,400
Speaker 1: in college, how indigenous Mexicans were acknowledged within this movie

1064
01:10:43,439 --> 01:10:46,200
Speaker 1: but not centered, and how that sort of evolved throughout

1065
01:10:46,960 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: Quaman's work. However, we have not really talked about Luisa

1066
01:10:52,200 --> 01:10:56,240
Speaker 1: Louisa Let's talk about Louisa Let's.

1067
01:10:56,960 --> 01:11:00,559
Speaker 3: I really like her character, at least just from like

1068
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:05,000
Speaker 3: a superficial point of view. I think that she's more

1069
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:09,440
Speaker 3: well rounded of a female character than you would generally

1070
01:11:09,520 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 3: see in just kind of any given movie, and especially

1071
01:11:12,439 --> 01:11:16,639
Speaker 3: one from a movie that was written and directed by men,

1072
01:11:17,880 --> 01:11:21,720
Speaker 3: and I also appreciate that as the movie goes on

1073
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 3: and the more you learn about her and her circumstances,

1074
01:11:26,479 --> 01:11:32,719
Speaker 3: the more her choices and actions make sense, because again

1075
01:11:32,760 --> 01:11:36,600
Speaker 3: you learn by the end that she had a terminal

1076
01:11:36,680 --> 01:11:43,120
Speaker 3: illness that she found out about not long before she

1077
01:11:43,200 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 3: knew she was going to die. So she was basically like, Okay,

1078
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,600
Speaker 3: I need to make the most of what life I

1079
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:56,040
Speaker 3: have left, and this opportunity presents itself with these teen boys.

1080
01:11:56,280 --> 01:12:01,080
Speaker 1: Wouldn't have been my choice, but you know, nor mine.

1081
01:12:01,400 --> 01:12:04,240
Speaker 1: I would have been like, hmmm, where are my female

1082
01:12:04,320 --> 01:12:07,320
Speaker 1: friends at and can we go on a little trip?

1083
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:08,960
Speaker 1: Versus two streitch.

1084
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:12,160
Speaker 2: But on the other hand, they're the Eggo and guy.

1085
01:12:12,680 --> 01:12:15,080
Speaker 3: I know. I just wish. I wish the story had

1086
01:12:15,160 --> 01:12:20,640
Speaker 3: aged them up to I don't know, twenty one, and

1087
01:12:20,680 --> 01:12:25,400
Speaker 3: then it would not be a really gross thing.

1088
01:12:25,640 --> 01:12:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's one of the most difficult parts of

1089
01:12:28,800 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: this movie for me is the age ambiguity, because I

1090
01:12:32,360 --> 01:12:33,880
Speaker 1: think that there is a way to look at this

1091
01:12:33,920 --> 01:12:37,640
Speaker 1: where you're like Luis is even in context of what

1092
01:12:37,680 --> 01:12:42,400
Speaker 1: she's doing abusing the power dynamic between for sure and

1093
01:12:42,439 --> 01:12:44,960
Speaker 1: these questionably aged young men.

1094
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:48,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, because she knows they're willing to do whatever she wants.

1095
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:52,719
Speaker 1: Yes, that was what I was confused, Like, I don't

1096
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,800
Speaker 1: know if that was a question that the movie was

1097
01:12:55,840 --> 01:12:57,840
Speaker 1: trying to get me to grapple with, or if it

1098
01:12:57,960 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: was just like it was two thousand and one, who

1099
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,920
Speaker 1: cares about the age of consent kind of thing? Like

1100
01:13:05,000 --> 01:13:09,200
Speaker 1: I genuinely was unclear on it because it made me uncomfortable,

1101
01:13:09,280 --> 01:13:11,160
Speaker 1: and I didn't know if the movie wanted me to

1102
01:13:11,200 --> 01:13:14,120
Speaker 1: be uncomfortable about it. The way that I read the

1103
01:13:14,160 --> 01:13:17,640
Speaker 1: original reviews and the synopsis of it seemed like it

1104
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:20,800
Speaker 1: did not want me to be uncomfortable about it. And

1105
01:13:20,840 --> 01:13:26,000
Speaker 1: it's frustrating because their age and their naivete about the

1106
01:13:26,040 --> 01:13:28,800
Speaker 1: world around them is inherent to who they are. Like,

1107
01:13:28,840 --> 01:13:31,639
Speaker 1: I think if you age them up too much, their

1108
01:13:32,080 --> 01:13:36,680
Speaker 1: level of naivete doesn't make quite as much sense. But

1109
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:40,519
Speaker 1: because of the situation they're in, it's necessary for the plot, like,

1110
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:45,080
Speaker 1: and so it just kind of became a clusterfuck for me.

1111
01:13:45,200 --> 01:13:47,840
Speaker 1: And I'm like, if they are like theoretically, if we

1112
01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:51,840
Speaker 1: take out so many things we've already discussed, and they are,

1113
01:13:52,200 --> 01:13:56,559
Speaker 1: you know, twenty three, twenty two, twenty three, and they're young,

1114
01:13:56,920 --> 01:14:01,599
Speaker 1: but they're you know, consenting adults that are just dufases.

1115
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:05,160
Speaker 3: Sure, which I mean plenty of examples all over the

1116
01:14:05,200 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 3: world of.

1117
01:14:05,800 --> 01:14:09,559
Speaker 1: That it happens every day. Then I feel like there's

1118
01:14:09,600 --> 01:14:16,320
Speaker 1: a way to view Luis's actions as cathartic and as like, oh,

1119
01:14:16,400 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 1: I am pitting your assumptions about me against you to

1120
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,479
Speaker 1: just like feel good in the time I have left.

1121
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,559
Speaker 1: But because of their dynamic, it just gets it gets

1122
01:14:30,880 --> 01:14:34,120
Speaker 1: really fucking in a.

1123
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:37,040
Speaker 3: Way that it again, like I mentioned, it didn't even

1124
01:14:37,640 --> 01:14:40,879
Speaker 3: occur to me, or I didn't I wasn't even aware,

1125
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:45,840
Speaker 3: or I didn't realize what that gap was the first

1126
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:48,720
Speaker 3: several times I saw this movie. Because while the movie

1127
01:14:48,800 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 3: does call attention to the fact that she's older than

1128
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:56,200
Speaker 3: them and you know, more experienced the way that you

1129
01:14:56,360 --> 01:15:00,000
Speaker 3: experience life more when you are older, I don't think

1130
01:15:00,080 --> 01:15:03,880
Speaker 3: it's trying to make you uncomfortable about like, oh it's

1131
01:15:03,960 --> 01:15:09,840
Speaker 3: this you know, older person exploiting this power dynamic. It's

1132
01:15:09,880 --> 01:15:13,960
Speaker 3: more just like a haha, look at these young duficices

1133
01:15:14,479 --> 01:15:19,000
Speaker 3: who have this awesome opportunity to get with this sexy

1134
01:15:19,080 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 3: older woman. I feel like is how everything is framed, and.

1135
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:26,280
Speaker 1: If that is the way we're supposed to read it.

1136
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,320
Speaker 1: The ending bugs me a little more because I guess,

1137
01:15:29,360 --> 01:15:33,840
Speaker 1: like I just maybe it's a personal thing. But like

1138
01:15:33,960 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 1: once you see her at a doctor's office, I was like,

1139
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:41,360
Speaker 1: with all due respect, she's fucking toast. Like that felt

1140
01:15:41,360 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 1: clear to me. Very early in this viewing, which is

1141
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:47,160
Speaker 1: the first viewing in ten years, I didn't fully remember

1142
01:15:47,200 --> 01:15:50,800
Speaker 1: the ending, but it was like, Okay, she is just

1143
01:15:51,160 --> 01:15:56,040
Speaker 1: not operating on anything other than I want to feel

1144
01:15:56,960 --> 01:16:01,840
Speaker 1: as organically good and cathartic and connected to life as

1145
01:16:01,840 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: I can in the limited time I have left, which

1146
01:16:05,360 --> 01:16:10,040
Speaker 1: is a beautiful premise within the way, you're just like,

1147
01:16:10,160 --> 01:16:13,639
Speaker 1: oh my god, I don't know, Adrena, how do you feel?

1148
01:16:13,680 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 1: I just like she's so challenged because I love Luisa

1149
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:21,200
Speaker 1: and like, from certain viewings, I want her to have

1150
01:16:21,280 --> 01:16:25,240
Speaker 1: everything she does. I am amazed and sometimes kind of

1151
01:16:25,320 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 1: like how can she send me notes of like her

1152
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 1: capacity to forgive something? I really loved about her and

1153
01:16:33,960 --> 01:16:37,720
Speaker 1: was like, wow, this is it just felt like very

1154
01:16:37,880 --> 01:16:40,719
Speaker 1: unique and I was like, wow, men wrote this? Who

1155
01:16:40,760 --> 01:16:46,840
Speaker 1: told them? Was that? How she clearly feels it's like

1156
01:16:46,920 --> 01:16:51,960
Speaker 1: her last days and she feels the need or desire

1157
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:56,200
Speaker 1: to provide grace to people in her life, specifically Hanoh,

1158
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 1: who has cheated on her. She has known about this

1159
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 1: for a long time and she both doesn't want to

1160
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:05,400
Speaker 1: be with him and she doesn't want him to lose

1161
01:17:05,520 --> 01:17:10,280
Speaker 1: her feeling that she is angry with him, but it's

1162
01:17:10,439 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: killing her, and it's like it's so again, in a

1163
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:18,559
Speaker 1: lesser movie, it would be horrible because you would just

1164
01:17:18,640 --> 01:17:22,560
Speaker 1: be conditioned to be like, oh, and women are inherently

1165
01:17:22,640 --> 01:17:27,439
Speaker 1: graceful and women are forgiving and women are capable of

1166
01:17:27,479 --> 01:17:30,000
Speaker 1: blah blah blah blah blah. But you can see and

1167
01:17:30,360 --> 01:17:32,519
Speaker 1: I appreciate that the movie took the time to say

1168
01:17:32,560 --> 01:17:36,960
Speaker 1: that she feels it is her choice to provide this grace,

1169
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:41,360
Speaker 1: but it is also very very painful for her. Yeah,

1170
01:17:41,360 --> 01:17:45,320
Speaker 1: And that was like, I don't know, I appreciated them

1171
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:46,840
Speaker 1: showing both of those things.

1172
01:17:47,960 --> 01:17:50,120
Speaker 3: There's a lot of interesting, like you said, Jamie, like

1173
01:17:50,560 --> 01:17:56,120
Speaker 3: there's this complexity that Luisa is written with that a

1174
01:17:56,200 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 3: lot of women characters are not in a way that like, again,

1175
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:05,280
Speaker 3: in a lesser movie, if there was a female character

1176
01:18:05,320 --> 01:18:10,679
Speaker 3: who was often crying as we do see Luisa do, yes,

1177
01:18:11,040 --> 01:18:15,479
Speaker 3: you know, her pain wouldn't be contextualized, it would be

1178
01:18:16,040 --> 01:18:20,640
Speaker 3: almost made a joke of like women are so emotional

1179
01:18:20,680 --> 01:18:25,080
Speaker 3: and they're always crying over everything. But you come to

1180
01:18:25,160 --> 01:18:28,519
Speaker 3: learn like why she's in all of this emotional pain

1181
01:18:28,760 --> 01:18:34,720
Speaker 3: and this like push and pull of wanting to reclaim

1182
01:18:35,360 --> 01:18:41,120
Speaker 3: her autonomy and like her freedom in her last weeks

1183
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:46,840
Speaker 3: of her life and you know, make active choices and

1184
01:18:47,080 --> 01:18:49,880
Speaker 3: just like go on at an adventure almost while she

1185
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:54,760
Speaker 3: still can and pray. But she's also dealing with an

1186
01:18:54,840 --> 01:18:59,679
Speaker 3: active breakup. She has left her partner, and she knows

1187
01:18:59,800 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 3: what that's going to do to him, she knows how

1188
01:19:03,320 --> 01:19:06,439
Speaker 3: much it is already hurting her. You know, there's all

1189
01:19:06,479 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 3: these components.

1190
01:19:08,320 --> 01:19:10,760
Speaker 1: It's so hard because it's like I do think that

1191
01:19:11,200 --> 01:19:14,120
Speaker 1: Louis some of her actions on its face, especially the

1192
01:19:14,200 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 1: first quote unquote seduction is I think like actively coercive

1193
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:25,960
Speaker 1: at least where he comes in looking for shampoo and

1194
01:19:26,040 --> 01:19:28,600
Speaker 1: she's like, no, take your towel. And I think that

1195
01:19:29,000 --> 01:19:31,479
Speaker 1: based on our conversation, I don't think for you know,

1196
01:19:31,520 --> 01:19:34,040
Speaker 1: two thousand and one or nineteen ninety nine, where the

1197
01:19:34,080 --> 01:19:36,840
Speaker 1: movie is taking place, that we're supposed to feel like

1198
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:39,479
Speaker 1: this is a coercive situation. But I think on its face,

1199
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:42,439
Speaker 1: it is yeah, and I don't want to shy away

1200
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:47,120
Speaker 1: from that. And in the same way, we're given a full,

1201
01:19:47,320 --> 01:19:51,719
Speaker 1: complicated context for this character that I feel like really

1202
01:19:51,800 --> 01:19:54,799
Speaker 1: leaves it to the viewer to decide how they feel

1203
01:19:54,920 --> 01:19:58,760
Speaker 1: about her actions. And I think every viewer is going

1204
01:19:58,840 --> 01:20:01,840
Speaker 1: to feel some gradient about her actions based on their

1205
01:20:01,880 --> 01:20:05,000
Speaker 1: own life experience because we are given I was like

1206
01:20:05,439 --> 01:20:09,639
Speaker 1: impressed it the amount of information that we're given about Louisa.

1207
01:20:09,680 --> 01:20:13,680
Speaker 1: Where she lost her parents young, she became the caretaker

1208
01:20:15,000 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: of a sick relative who she loved very dearly, very young,

1209
01:20:19,680 --> 01:20:23,560
Speaker 1: and that influenced the compromises she made throughout her life.

1210
01:20:23,840 --> 01:20:26,960
Speaker 1: And it just doesn't seem like she has gotten to

1211
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:31,519
Speaker 1: have her big adventure and now she suddenly finds out

1212
01:20:31,560 --> 01:20:36,400
Speaker 1: that her life is ending after having one serious relationship

1213
01:20:36,439 --> 01:20:39,799
Speaker 1: that ended in a partner's death and a second serious

1214
01:20:39,800 --> 01:20:47,280
Speaker 1: relationship that ended in devastating infidelity, and so it's there's

1215
01:20:47,360 --> 01:20:51,400
Speaker 1: no like, I'm not trying to excuse her actions. And

1216
01:20:51,439 --> 01:20:54,120
Speaker 1: I also think that we are given so much information

1217
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:59,880
Speaker 1: about the context of her actions that I just I

1218
01:21:00,160 --> 01:21:04,080
Speaker 1: really love her, and it's like, in many ways, she

1219
01:21:04,200 --> 01:21:08,320
Speaker 1: didn't have a shot at what she deserved to have,

1220
01:21:09,120 --> 01:21:12,839
Speaker 1: and it seems like she knows that to an extent

1221
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:16,559
Speaker 1: and wants to end life on her own terms. And

1222
01:21:16,600 --> 01:21:22,000
Speaker 1: I also really appreciate that this section where she is

1223
01:21:22,439 --> 01:21:27,559
Speaker 1: hooking up with even if they're elder teenagers, that's objectively weird.

1224
01:21:27,720 --> 01:21:31,280
Speaker 1: No matter where you're at in your life, it's objectively weird, Like,

1225
01:21:31,960 --> 01:21:33,839
Speaker 1: at very least, it is weird.

1226
01:21:34,439 --> 01:21:38,400
Speaker 3: If you're an adult, you should not do anything with

1227
01:21:38,479 --> 01:21:42,000
Speaker 3: anyone who is still in high school. I think that's

1228
01:21:42,160 --> 01:21:46,000
Speaker 3: a rule to live by, regardless of how old they are,

1229
01:21:46,080 --> 01:21:47,080
Speaker 3: especially if you've.

1230
01:21:46,880 --> 01:21:50,440
Speaker 1: Gotten to know them and you're like, yeah, they're obviously

1231
01:21:51,080 --> 01:21:52,240
Speaker 1: kids spiritually.

1232
01:21:52,760 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 2: At some point, she says that she remembers him when

1233
01:21:56,840 --> 01:21:59,680
Speaker 2: he was a kid and he was crying because he

1234
01:21:59,720 --> 01:22:01,880
Speaker 2: wanted to the thundercut a thundercat.

1235
01:22:02,120 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, Which is I feel like we most frequently

1236
01:22:06,280 --> 01:22:13,000
Speaker 1: see that dynamic post against young girls in a sexualized way,

1237
01:22:13,040 --> 01:22:15,960
Speaker 1: where it's like, I knew you when you were a child,

1238
01:22:16,040 --> 01:22:17,519
Speaker 1: and now you are my.

1239
01:22:17,760 --> 01:22:20,880
Speaker 3: Wife grown up? How are we?

1240
01:22:22,120 --> 01:22:25,760
Speaker 2: When I think about it. It's also that back in

1241
01:22:26,120 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 2: two thousand and when this movie was filmed, we never

1242
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:36,200
Speaker 2: thought about the older women being with younger boys. Or teenager. Yes,

1243
01:22:36,240 --> 01:22:39,519
Speaker 2: spread there was a way. This is like a recent

1244
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:45,639
Speaker 2: conversation and maybe the writers weren't thinking about it that way,

1245
01:22:45,920 --> 01:22:46,879
Speaker 2: which is a problem.

1246
01:22:46,920 --> 01:22:49,080
Speaker 1: But well that's the thing that, like I wrote down

1247
01:22:49,080 --> 01:22:51,160
Speaker 1: in my notes because I watched the movie twice a

1248
01:22:51,240 --> 01:22:54,720
Speaker 1: prep and like pretty like midway through the movie and

1249
01:22:54,760 --> 01:22:59,760
Speaker 1: my first viewing as like as uncomfortable it is, I remembered,

1250
01:23:00,720 --> 01:23:03,400
Speaker 1: like at my core that Louisa as a character that

1251
01:23:03,479 --> 01:23:09,080
Speaker 1: I really liked throughout the movie. But if the gender

1252
01:23:09,200 --> 01:23:14,360
Speaker 1: dynamics of this movie were flipped, I would have a

1253
01:23:14,520 --> 01:23:19,400
Speaker 1: much harder time with this movie. And again I'm not

1254
01:23:19,800 --> 01:23:25,200
Speaker 1: pro gender like flipping movies because that is very like

1255
01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:29,519
Speaker 1: prescriptive in itself, but it was something I thought about

1256
01:23:29,520 --> 01:23:33,559
Speaker 1: where I was like, if this was a man in

1257
01:23:33,560 --> 01:23:36,920
Speaker 1: his late twenties early thirties at the end of his

1258
01:23:37,040 --> 01:23:41,439
Speaker 1: life on a road trip with two teenage girls, would

1259
01:23:41,439 --> 01:23:44,600
Speaker 1: I feel differently? And the answer was absolutely yes, I

1260
01:23:44,600 --> 01:23:47,599
Speaker 1: would feel differently, And so I wanted to acknowledge that

1261
01:23:47,920 --> 01:23:51,400
Speaker 1: in this episode because that is not the way this

1262
01:23:51,479 --> 01:23:55,040
Speaker 1: movie was written, I think, very intentionally, but I think

1263
01:23:55,080 --> 01:23:57,679
Speaker 1: it is important to consider the dynamics even.

1264
01:23:57,680 --> 01:24:01,840
Speaker 2: If it wasn't an older man with it would be weird.

1265
01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:06,200
Speaker 1: It would also be weird. Yeah, right, either.

1266
01:24:06,000 --> 01:24:08,160
Speaker 2: Way, you see it, it's weird.

1267
01:24:09,080 --> 01:24:14,240
Speaker 3: Yes, But I think you're right about the cultural climate

1268
01:24:14,320 --> 01:24:18,759
Speaker 3: of the time did not perceive relationships between older women

1269
01:24:18,840 --> 01:24:23,479
Speaker 3: and younger men are teen boys as predatory. It was

1270
01:24:23,600 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 3: always framed as.

1271
01:24:24,560 --> 01:24:26,880
Speaker 1: Like sexy, look at these.

1272
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:31,479
Speaker 3: Cool young studs, Like getting with this older woman, isn't

1273
01:24:31,479 --> 01:24:32,040
Speaker 3: that awesome.

1274
01:24:32,240 --> 01:24:36,400
Speaker 2: There was an episode of Dozn't Screak? Do you remember that? Yes?

1275
01:24:37,280 --> 01:24:39,519
Speaker 3: Yes, I didn't watch that show.

1276
01:24:41,240 --> 01:24:44,519
Speaker 1: Oh god, I'm trying to think of There's a book

1277
01:24:44,880 --> 01:24:49,120
Speaker 1: written by recent guests of the podcast Alyssa Nutting that

1278
01:24:49,280 --> 01:24:55,120
Speaker 1: sort of examines this same dynamic. It's a book called

1279
01:24:55,240 --> 01:25:00,160
Speaker 1: Tampa about an abuser, that is an adult woman who

1280
01:25:00,200 --> 01:25:04,000
Speaker 1: abuses younger men. And so I think that like, it

1281
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:08,479
Speaker 1: is something that absolutely happens and is still not really

1282
01:25:08,520 --> 01:25:12,960
Speaker 1: culturally understood because there is such a shame dynamic of like,

1283
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:16,640
Speaker 1: if you are a young man or a man in

1284
01:25:16,680 --> 01:25:22,360
Speaker 1: general that has experienced sexual abuse from a woman, that

1285
01:25:22,560 --> 01:25:27,680
Speaker 1: there is something emasculating about that versus something that is

1286
01:25:28,080 --> 01:25:29,760
Speaker 1: just abusive.

1287
01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:34,080
Speaker 3: And the expectation that if you are a man, you

1288
01:25:34,240 --> 01:25:37,320
Speaker 3: are just supposed to be so horny and so ready

1289
01:25:37,880 --> 01:25:42,559
Speaker 3: at any time to receive the you know, sexual attention

1290
01:25:43,520 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 3: of a woman because of like heteronormativity and just yeah,

1291
01:25:49,000 --> 01:25:54,000
Speaker 3: that very harmful expectation that strips men of their agency

1292
01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 3: and their ability to withhold consent and say no.

1293
01:25:58,560 --> 01:25:58,760
Speaker 1: Right.

1294
01:25:58,960 --> 01:26:03,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, My guess is the writers and the director were

1295
01:26:03,560 --> 01:26:06,439
Speaker 3: not really thinking about any of that, And I'm guessing

1296
01:26:06,439 --> 01:26:10,759
Speaker 3: they're like, well, we showed these guys as sexual beings.

1297
01:26:10,840 --> 01:26:14,320
Speaker 3: The movie literally opens with one of them having sex,

1298
01:26:14,360 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 3: and then moments later we see the other one have sex.

1299
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:21,000
Speaker 3: So I'm guessing they're like, oh, you know, this is

1300
01:26:21,000 --> 01:26:24,840
Speaker 3: not predatory or abusive. They're sexual people. And they also

1301
01:26:25,680 --> 01:26:28,400
Speaker 3: come on to her, like they approach her at the wedding,

1302
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 3: they like almost comically charge at her, they like lunge

1303
01:26:33,000 --> 01:26:35,640
Speaker 3: at her at the wedding. So they're probably like, all right,

1304
01:26:35,680 --> 01:26:39,719
Speaker 3: we did enough to suggest that this was all totally

1305
01:26:39,760 --> 01:26:42,200
Speaker 3: fine and consensual and blah blah blah.

1306
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:48,200
Speaker 2: So and Luisa is desperate also like yeah.

1307
01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:51,120
Speaker 3: Not that that excuses you know, predatory behavior, but yes,

1308
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:53,200
Speaker 3: she is acting out of desperation.

1309
01:26:53,360 --> 01:26:56,200
Speaker 2: Yes, she's like, oh, these guys are hitting on me.

1310
01:26:56,479 --> 01:26:59,439
Speaker 2: They invited me to the beach. I have nothing else.

1311
01:26:59,720 --> 01:27:02,240
Speaker 3: She's nothing to lose. I mean, she's she knows she

1312
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:05,280
Speaker 3: will die soon, right, She's like, it's not an excuse.

1313
01:27:05,520 --> 01:27:09,759
Speaker 1: It does seem like before this was a cultural concept.

1314
01:27:09,800 --> 01:27:13,040
Speaker 1: She's like, who's gonna cancel me if I'm dead? And

1315
01:27:13,400 --> 01:27:17,160
Speaker 1: that does kind of seem like her vibe and like

1316
01:27:17,600 --> 01:27:21,040
Speaker 1: and again, this is like the eternal not that we

1317
01:27:21,160 --> 01:27:23,799
Speaker 1: find ourselves in on this show and in the world

1318
01:27:24,439 --> 01:27:30,920
Speaker 1: where it is very difficult to rationalize a complex female

1319
01:27:31,040 --> 01:27:35,040
Speaker 1: character that is written by two brothers. You're like, Okay,

1320
01:27:35,080 --> 01:27:37,479
Speaker 1: this woman is not real and I love her, but

1321
01:27:37,520 --> 01:27:41,160
Speaker 1: she is not real, and so it's difficult and I

1322
01:27:41,200 --> 01:27:44,559
Speaker 1: have to keep reminding myself of that. But I guess

1323
01:27:44,560 --> 01:27:46,720
Speaker 1: I want to like take a step back from what

1324
01:27:46,840 --> 01:27:49,200
Speaker 1: the intention of the movie is because it's very hard

1325
01:27:49,240 --> 01:27:52,720
Speaker 1: to know, I think, especially for me, because like I

1326
01:27:52,760 --> 01:27:56,719
Speaker 1: am not these two gen X brothers, and I also

1327
01:27:57,439 --> 01:28:01,879
Speaker 1: am not familiar with the dynamics in Mexico at this time,

1328
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:07,599
Speaker 1: and so with Luisa, like there are moments where Luisa

1329
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:11,080
Speaker 1: is really calling them out in a way that feels

1330
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,880
Speaker 1: very telling, and depending on how you view these dynamics

1331
01:28:14,920 --> 01:28:18,679
Speaker 1: can kind of ring hollow. But I felt like Luisa

1332
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:22,800
Speaker 1: almost acts as and I'm curious if, however, feels about it,

1333
01:28:22,840 --> 01:28:30,400
Speaker 1: because she knowingly enters this dynamic with these two teenagers

1334
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:34,800
Speaker 1: who she knows are kind of full of shit, and

1335
01:28:35,520 --> 01:28:37,720
Speaker 1: I'm not convinced that she knows that they have a

1336
01:28:37,800 --> 01:28:40,320
Speaker 1: destination in mind. When she gets in. She just wants

1337
01:28:40,320 --> 01:28:43,320
Speaker 1: an adventure and that's great, and so she's like, I'm

1338
01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:44,800
Speaker 1: going to get in the car and where we end

1339
01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:47,439
Speaker 1: up is where we end up, fuck it and we'll

1340
01:28:47,439 --> 01:28:51,240
Speaker 1: just see what happens. Yeah, But because she wants to

1341
01:28:52,200 --> 01:28:54,840
Speaker 1: know about them and she wants them to know about her,

1342
01:28:55,240 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 1: I feel like she ends up teasing out all of

1343
01:28:57,560 --> 01:29:02,120
Speaker 1: these toxic qualities them and challenging them in a way

1344
01:29:02,160 --> 01:29:05,599
Speaker 1: that we don't usually see in movies, where she asked

1345
01:29:05,640 --> 01:29:08,639
Speaker 1: them like ways that I think KAPSI. It is pretty

1346
01:29:08,840 --> 01:29:14,040
Speaker 1: creepy questions about Like again, if we flip the dynamics,

1347
01:29:14,400 --> 01:29:17,839
Speaker 1: if we have a thirty something year old man asking

1348
01:29:17,880 --> 01:29:21,960
Speaker 1: two teen girls how they have sex, I would be like, blitz,

1349
01:29:23,120 --> 01:29:23,839
Speaker 1: get me out.

1350
01:29:23,640 --> 01:29:25,720
Speaker 3: Of here, not want to see it.

1351
01:29:26,200 --> 01:29:29,360
Speaker 1: But with these dynamics, it's like there's a way to

1352
01:29:29,400 --> 01:29:31,760
Speaker 1: look at it where she's having them challenge their own

1353
01:29:31,920 --> 01:29:36,759
Speaker 1: naive masculinity and trying to understand how they view women,

1354
01:29:36,880 --> 01:29:41,040
Speaker 1: because they view women horribly throughout. And I think that

1355
01:29:41,040 --> 01:29:45,920
Speaker 1: that's like one of the sad slash true things about

1356
01:29:45,920 --> 01:29:49,599
Speaker 1: this movie is that I don't necessarily know that having

1357
01:29:49,680 --> 01:29:56,280
Speaker 1: been on this journey improves to Notch and Julio's opinion

1358
01:29:56,360 --> 01:30:01,120
Speaker 1: of women. I think that they just meet one that

1359
01:30:01,160 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 1: they liked and then she died.

1360
01:30:03,840 --> 01:30:07,160
Speaker 2: No, they will be as whoso older lives.

1361
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:09,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and have.

1362
01:30:09,280 --> 01:30:11,479
Speaker 2: Proofs, but I have no doubt.

1363
01:30:12,320 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 1: We've all lived. We have theories.

1364
01:30:14,920 --> 01:30:20,439
Speaker 2: Then at the ending, the narrator says that they broke

1365
01:30:20,520 --> 01:30:22,639
Speaker 2: up with their girlfriends as soon as they came back

1366
01:30:22,640 --> 01:30:29,120
Speaker 2: from Italy, and the notes started seeing his neighbor right away,

1367
01:30:29,240 --> 01:30:34,080
Speaker 2: and to Julio, it took him nine months to date someone.

1368
01:30:34,600 --> 01:30:38,559
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there should be a sequel or just

1369
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:42,760
Speaker 3: like another movie in the Itomama Tambian cinematic universe that

1370
01:30:42,920 --> 01:30:48,960
Speaker 3: follows Anna and Cecilia while they go around Europe having

1371
01:30:49,000 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 3: fun adventures. And where's that movie? Anyway? Back to Luisa,

1372
01:30:55,439 --> 01:31:01,320
Speaker 3: I wish that this like exploitative and predator dynamic was

1373
01:31:01,360 --> 01:31:03,120
Speaker 3: absent from the movie because it would just make it

1374
01:31:03,160 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 3: so much easier to like. But also, you know, women

1375
01:31:07,800 --> 01:31:09,280
Speaker 3: are complicated too.

1376
01:31:09,560 --> 01:31:12,040
Speaker 1: But I don't even know if I want more movies

1377
01:31:12,120 --> 01:31:15,439
Speaker 1: in this universe because it is so uniquely complicated to

1378
01:31:15,560 --> 01:31:20,160
Speaker 1: this moment that you're just like, I don't know if

1379
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:25,000
Speaker 1: I want Quann to like try to course correct on

1380
01:31:25,080 --> 01:31:27,680
Speaker 1: some of the more glaring aspects of this movie, Like,

1381
01:31:27,760 --> 01:31:32,280
Speaker 1: they are what they are, and they're fucked in some ways,

1382
01:31:32,360 --> 01:31:35,479
Speaker 1: and it's interesting to talk about it because of how

1383
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:40,759
Speaker 1: the world has changed. But I don't know, Luis is dead,

1384
01:31:40,800 --> 01:31:44,000
Speaker 1: what are we gonna do? Honestly, I think normally at

1385
01:31:44,000 --> 01:31:47,320
Speaker 1: the end of a movie, if you're like and the

1386
01:31:47,400 --> 01:31:51,400
Speaker 1: woman does, you're like, well, that sucks, because that always

1387
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:54,479
Speaker 1: like the woman has served her purpose and now she

1388
01:31:54,560 --> 01:31:57,840
Speaker 1: can disappear into vapor. But in this movie, I did

1389
01:31:57,880 --> 01:32:02,559
Speaker 1: not feel that way. I felt like, independently, there are

1390
01:32:02,600 --> 01:32:06,520
Speaker 1: two really strong narratives in this movie. One is Luis's

1391
01:32:06,720 --> 01:32:11,000
Speaker 1: and one is the friendship between the two guys, and

1392
01:32:11,040 --> 01:32:16,080
Speaker 1: they're both equally impactful. And again, I feel like when

1393
01:32:16,120 --> 01:32:18,720
Speaker 1: I watched this movie for the first time, I was

1394
01:32:18,760 --> 01:32:21,240
Speaker 1: way more invested in the guys, and in this time,

1395
01:32:21,720 --> 01:32:25,040
Speaker 1: I am like Louisa coated and I'm way more invested

1396
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:26,840
Speaker 1: in Louisa.

1397
01:32:27,160 --> 01:32:27,479
Speaker 3: Sure.

1398
01:32:27,720 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 2: Same. And when I saw Way Back, I was like, oh,

1399
01:32:32,280 --> 01:32:36,160
Speaker 2: they're so fun and I love them and I was

1400
01:32:37,000 --> 01:32:41,280
Speaker 2: a teen movie, finally, a Mexican teen movie. And now

1401
01:32:41,320 --> 01:32:45,840
Speaker 2: that I saw it, it's not a teen movie, right,

1402
01:32:46,400 --> 01:32:48,479
Speaker 2: I mean it is, but it's not. It's a movie

1403
01:32:48,560 --> 01:32:50,800
Speaker 2: about bands than growing up.

1404
01:32:51,040 --> 01:32:53,040
Speaker 1: But I think it's cool that it can be seen

1405
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:56,080
Speaker 1: as a teen movie too, Like there's so many layers

1406
01:32:56,120 --> 01:32:59,920
Speaker 1: to it. It's like you can watch this movie as

1407
01:33:00,080 --> 01:33:02,519
Speaker 1: a teenager and be like, oh, yeah, that's how teen

1408
01:33:02,600 --> 01:33:08,120
Speaker 1: boys view teen girls generally based on my lived experience,

1409
01:33:08,640 --> 01:33:10,400
Speaker 1: and then you can grow up and watch it and

1410
01:33:10,439 --> 01:33:13,240
Speaker 1: be like, oh, they were trying to say something by

1411
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:18,479
Speaker 1: allowing those teen boys to talk about teen girls this way.

1412
01:33:18,600 --> 01:33:20,639
Speaker 1: And I don't think that that excuses it, because again,

1413
01:33:20,680 --> 01:33:26,759
Speaker 1: we only see what are their girlfriend's names, Anna and Cecilia. Yes,

1414
01:33:27,240 --> 01:33:29,400
Speaker 1: at the very very beginning, and that is where it

1415
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:33,960
Speaker 1: passes the back to test normal. The two girls are

1416
01:33:34,000 --> 01:33:35,680
Speaker 1: talking about like, I can't wait to be able to

1417
01:33:35,680 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 1: plane and the other one's like, I know because they

1418
01:33:39,560 --> 01:33:42,439
Speaker 1: I feel like it's implied that they're kind of also

1419
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:43,320
Speaker 1: sick of the guys.

1420
01:33:43,760 --> 01:33:44,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure.

1421
01:33:44,680 --> 01:33:49,960
Speaker 2: It passes when Louisa talks to the old woman and yes, yes,

1422
01:33:50,479 --> 01:33:54,280
Speaker 2: and when Lisa talks to my Belle, yes, and before

1423
01:33:54,439 --> 01:33:59,040
Speaker 2: the guys wake up, Louisa is having breakfast and she's

1424
01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:03,280
Speaker 2: asking Mavela and her daughter about the names of the downs.

1425
01:34:04,760 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 3: Wow, it does feminist masterpiece.

1426
01:34:08,840 --> 01:34:11,160
Speaker 1: I mean there were moments. I mean, I'm not trying

1427
01:34:11,160 --> 01:34:14,320
Speaker 1: to say that there were not moments where women connected

1428
01:34:14,400 --> 01:34:17,160
Speaker 1: in this movie, but most of them were like not

1429
01:34:18,280 --> 01:34:21,760
Speaker 1: thoroughly included on screen or like mostly told that they

1430
01:34:21,840 --> 01:34:24,639
Speaker 1: had happened by the narrator. But I feel like that's

1431
01:34:25,320 --> 01:34:29,040
Speaker 1: I think again. We most recently came across this specific

1432
01:34:29,280 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 1: issue in our Virgin Suicides episode, where often many conversations

1433
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:42,000
Speaker 1: between girls or women were very fleeting because the main

1434
01:34:42,120 --> 01:34:47,840
Speaker 1: narrator seemed to be an adult man remembering something and so,

1435
01:34:48,560 --> 01:34:52,160
Speaker 1: which is like what the Virgin Suicides is, and that's

1436
01:34:52,160 --> 01:34:55,479
Speaker 1: like part of why. And I think Louisa suffers from

1437
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:58,719
Speaker 1: this less But I do think to some degree where

1438
01:34:58,720 --> 01:35:00,840
Speaker 1: it's like we don't know who the narrator is, but

1439
01:35:00,880 --> 01:35:03,960
Speaker 1: they seem to be recalling something and they have some

1440
01:35:04,120 --> 01:35:07,719
Speaker 1: godlike knowledge of what happens to these characters down the line,

1441
01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:10,559
Speaker 1: or what has happened to anyone we encounter or any

1442
01:35:10,600 --> 01:35:14,439
Speaker 1: place we encounter before we get there. That like it

1443
01:35:14,560 --> 01:35:19,960
Speaker 1: is a man remembering or presenting something, and so sometimes

1444
01:35:20,040 --> 01:35:24,880
Speaker 1: they will present what happens between women, and then we

1445
01:35:24,960 --> 01:35:27,320
Speaker 1: only see what happens between women in kind of a

1446
01:35:27,320 --> 01:35:30,679
Speaker 1: fleeting way, which is a weird specific thing. But yeah,

1447
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:32,280
Speaker 1: that's also the virgin suicides.

1448
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:33,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, now that.

1449
01:35:33,479 --> 01:35:36,479
Speaker 2: I think about it, Anna and Cecilia weren't very good

1450
01:35:36,600 --> 01:35:39,640
Speaker 2: friends either. They fucked each other's boyfriends.

1451
01:35:39,760 --> 01:35:42,880
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, right, which I kind of like that

1452
01:35:42,960 --> 01:35:46,519
Speaker 1: they like because it's like, I do think men have

1453
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:48,920
Speaker 1: an issue with infidelity, but I do think it's also

1454
01:35:48,960 --> 01:35:50,120
Speaker 1: a human problem.

1455
01:35:50,600 --> 01:35:50,800
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1456
01:35:50,800 --> 01:35:53,160
Speaker 1: Sure, I think everyone feels different about this, but I

1457
01:35:53,280 --> 01:35:57,360
Speaker 1: like that there it was acknowledged that. It's like the

1458
01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:01,480
Speaker 1: boys were so quick to be like, our girlfriends are faithful,

1459
01:36:01,560 --> 01:36:04,799
Speaker 1: but if we are horny and want to cheat on them,

1460
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:07,800
Speaker 1: that's awesome. Like it's just like classic.

1461
01:36:07,320 --> 01:36:08,719
Speaker 3: It's a loud and it's great.

1462
01:36:08,840 --> 01:36:12,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's like classic misogyny one oh one, where

1463
01:36:12,560 --> 01:36:14,599
Speaker 1: it's like if a woman does what I do, she's

1464
01:36:14,640 --> 01:36:16,840
Speaker 1: a slut. But if I do what I do, I

1465
01:36:16,960 --> 01:36:21,080
Speaker 1: fucking rule, which is very much their like creed. It's

1466
01:36:21,120 --> 01:36:22,639
Speaker 1: like in their fucking creed.

1467
01:36:23,200 --> 01:36:26,040
Speaker 2: I was going to say that that's very Mexican, but

1468
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:27,800
Speaker 2: I think that's universal.

1469
01:36:28,840 --> 01:36:29,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally.

1470
01:36:29,880 --> 01:36:33,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, just a few other things I want to shout

1471
01:36:33,200 --> 01:36:38,360
Speaker 3: out about Luisa. I really liked the little narrative we

1472
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:42,799
Speaker 3: get mostly in voiceover that also sort of addresses her

1473
01:36:43,520 --> 01:36:48,479
Speaker 3: class and circumstances, where again we learned that she had

1474
01:36:48,520 --> 01:36:52,920
Speaker 3: to start taking care of an ill relative and she

1475
01:36:53,080 --> 01:36:57,320
Speaker 3: had to become I think, like a dental technician. Yeah,

1476
01:36:57,600 --> 01:37:00,800
Speaker 3: something like that when she was sixteen, and then she

1477
01:37:01,000 --> 01:37:04,599
Speaker 3: met Hano not long after that, and then they got married,

1478
01:37:04,760 --> 01:37:08,280
Speaker 3: so she didn't really have the opportunity to go to

1479
01:37:08,400 --> 01:37:12,720
Speaker 3: university and get the education that Hano and all of

1480
01:37:12,920 --> 01:37:18,040
Speaker 3: his friends have. Because there's the voiceover that explains how

1481
01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:21,080
Speaker 3: she would be with them and they'd be talking about

1482
01:37:21,120 --> 01:37:26,639
Speaker 3: you know, philosophy or politics, and either to earnestly try

1483
01:37:26,680 --> 01:37:32,800
Speaker 3: to include her or with mal intent try to expose her,

1484
01:37:33,280 --> 01:37:34,880
Speaker 3: they would you know, be like, oh, what do you

1485
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:39,040
Speaker 3: think about this quote unquote intellectual topic? And then she

1486
01:37:39,080 --> 01:37:41,640
Speaker 3: would always say, you know, I don't know anything. About that,

1487
01:37:42,040 --> 01:37:45,599
Speaker 3: and how she wished she could be like, well, yeah,

1488
01:37:45,800 --> 01:37:50,120
Speaker 3: you were talking about all this fancy schmancy philosophy stuff,

1489
01:37:50,120 --> 01:37:53,360
Speaker 3: but can you name all the teeth? And how just

1490
01:37:53,400 --> 01:37:58,679
Speaker 3: like again, her circumstances led her to this situation where

1491
01:37:58,720 --> 01:38:03,479
Speaker 3: she now can't help but feel insecure about the situation

1492
01:38:03,600 --> 01:38:08,000
Speaker 3: she often finds herself in. And how again, that's like

1493
01:38:08,200 --> 01:38:11,360
Speaker 3: just a relatable thing that a lot of people experience,

1494
01:38:11,479 --> 01:38:16,280
Speaker 3: and I like that her character was enriched with that detail.

1495
01:38:16,920 --> 01:38:21,599
Speaker 3: I love her monologue where she's being like, you guys

1496
01:38:21,600 --> 01:38:26,480
Speaker 3: are babies and pigs and your hypocrites, and here's my manifesto.

1497
01:38:26,560 --> 01:38:28,880
Speaker 3: If you want to keep hanging out with me, here's

1498
01:38:28,920 --> 01:38:31,719
Speaker 3: everything you have to do. And just how she rattles

1499
01:38:31,760 --> 01:38:36,559
Speaker 3: off all of these rules, I just thought was it's great.

1500
01:38:36,920 --> 01:38:40,640
Speaker 1: I loved it, and I also wasn't Maybe I'm in

1501
01:38:40,680 --> 01:38:44,240
Speaker 1: a cynical phase of life, but like, I felt very

1502
01:38:44,840 --> 01:38:49,800
Speaker 1: cathartic when she rattled off the rules, and I also

1503
01:38:49,920 --> 01:38:53,000
Speaker 1: is very unsurprised when it blew up in her face

1504
01:38:53,720 --> 01:39:02,559
Speaker 1: because men are horrible and that's a Missandra's statement that

1505
01:39:02,640 --> 01:39:06,400
Speaker 1: I just made. But I just feel like she took

1506
01:39:06,520 --> 01:39:10,160
Speaker 1: I think in a like twenty seventeen movie, it would

1507
01:39:10,160 --> 01:39:13,240
Speaker 1: be like, I'm taking control of this now, and now

1508
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:17,560
Speaker 1: I make the rules and the history of patriarchy is

1509
01:39:17,600 --> 01:39:20,320
Speaker 1: erased and everything works out in my favorite and you're

1510
01:39:20,400 --> 01:39:22,800
Speaker 1: just like, well, what if we learned in the past

1511
01:39:22,840 --> 01:39:26,160
Speaker 1: ten years. If not, it is more complicated than that,

1512
01:39:26,920 --> 01:39:29,400
Speaker 1: and we have to engage with that idea in order

1513
01:39:29,439 --> 01:39:32,200
Speaker 1: to make actual progress. I don't know, I'm bringing a

1514
01:39:32,320 --> 01:39:35,560
Speaker 1: very twenty twenty three thought process to that. But it

1515
01:39:35,680 --> 01:39:38,240
Speaker 1: was interesting that this two thousand and one movie was like,

1516
01:39:38,600 --> 01:39:42,160
Speaker 1: I'm taking control of this. Oh, you're still driving the car,

1517
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:45,240
Speaker 1: you still have the power, you still have the class

1518
01:39:45,320 --> 01:39:51,439
Speaker 1: dynamic OVERB and I can want this and still have

1519
01:39:51,520 --> 01:39:55,640
Speaker 1: to try another way to live the way that I

1520
01:39:55,680 --> 01:39:59,360
Speaker 1: want to live. Right, I hate it, but also it

1521
01:39:59,360 --> 01:40:00,720
Speaker 1: feels accurate.

1522
01:40:01,120 --> 01:40:07,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, also unpopular opinion. She takes charge just after the

1523
01:40:07,400 --> 01:40:11,599
Speaker 2: two teenage boys do what teenage boys do is like, well,

1524
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:14,800
Speaker 2: you kind of know what you were getting into.

1525
01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:17,559
Speaker 1: Well, I think again, it's like I think that if

1526
01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:21,240
Speaker 1: the gender dynamics were swapped, that would be like what

1527
01:40:21,320 --> 01:40:26,200
Speaker 1: we would automatically say. Right, It's like she is very

1528
01:40:26,280 --> 01:40:30,720
Speaker 1: much an adult woman who I don't know. Yeah, like

1529
01:40:30,800 --> 01:40:33,760
Speaker 1: in that moment, you're like, we know, well, I guess

1530
01:40:33,800 --> 01:40:37,000
Speaker 1: we don't technically know that she is going to die.

1531
01:40:37,120 --> 01:40:40,400
Speaker 1: But again, I mean, maybe I'm just using my big

1532
01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:44,920
Speaker 1: old thirty year old brain to be like, yeah, I

1533
01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:47,080
Speaker 1: knew she's gonna die, but it felt pretty clear that

1534
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:52,640
Speaker 1: like she was not acting normally in this situation. This

1535
01:40:52,720 --> 01:40:54,639
Speaker 1: is not something she would do every day.

1536
01:40:55,280 --> 01:40:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the movie wants to trick you into thinking

1537
01:40:58,120 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 2: that she's doing everything because Hano cheated on her. And

1538
01:41:03,520 --> 01:41:06,680
Speaker 2: then the yeah, the twist comes.

1539
01:41:06,680 --> 01:41:09,439
Speaker 3: M hmm, which I think is excellent screenwriting because even

1540
01:41:09,439 --> 01:41:13,280
Speaker 3: though we see this scene that foreshadows the information that

1541
01:41:13,360 --> 01:41:16,960
Speaker 3: she passes away because we see her at the doctor's

1542
01:41:17,000 --> 01:41:19,880
Speaker 3: office and the doctor kind of like ominously closes the

1543
01:41:19,960 --> 01:41:23,080
Speaker 3: door like right in the camera's face, And once you

1544
01:41:23,160 --> 01:41:26,000
Speaker 3: find out what happens to her at the end, you're like, oh, yeah,

1545
01:41:26,040 --> 01:41:29,040
Speaker 3: that was foreshadowing. But what seems to be the function

1546
01:41:29,120 --> 01:41:33,160
Speaker 3: of that scene is her taking that quiz at the

1547
01:41:33,200 --> 01:41:37,240
Speaker 3: doctor's office and like learning about how much she's a

1548
01:41:37,400 --> 01:41:40,759
Speaker 3: strong independent woman, which I think is like a brilliant

1549
01:41:40,760 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 3: piece of screenwriting because it's like all of these things

1550
01:41:43,320 --> 01:41:47,439
Speaker 3: are happening the audience is tricked into thinking that one

1551
01:41:47,520 --> 01:41:51,000
Speaker 3: function is being served, but it's also like multiple things

1552
01:41:51,000 --> 01:41:54,559
Speaker 3: are happening and being foreshadowed, and you don't realize all

1553
01:41:54,600 --> 01:41:57,880
Speaker 3: of it until the very end. And it's great writing.

1554
01:41:58,160 --> 01:42:01,400
Speaker 2: Kaitlyn, you know so much about screenwriting. Why is that?

1555
01:42:01,600 --> 01:42:04,600
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, I wonder why. Well, it wouldn't be

1556
01:42:04,720 --> 01:42:08,440
Speaker 3: because I got a master's degree in screenwriting from Boston University,

1557
01:42:08,439 --> 01:42:10,000
Speaker 3: because I would not mention that.

1558
01:42:10,160 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 1: Surely there's no way Audrianta had knowledge of this, So

1559
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:15,160
Speaker 1: that's like incredible.

1560
01:42:15,360 --> 01:42:17,160
Speaker 2: I had no idea it and.

1561
01:42:17,160 --> 01:42:18,360
Speaker 1: Now I've learned no id.

1562
01:42:19,960 --> 01:42:24,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, anyway, but yeah, I feel like all of this

1563
01:42:24,520 --> 01:42:28,360
Speaker 3: space too, Like I think that this is a movie

1564
01:42:28,400 --> 01:42:31,120
Speaker 3: that is like I want to watch it again in

1565
01:42:31,160 --> 01:42:34,599
Speaker 3: another ten years and see how I feel about it then,

1566
01:42:34,760 --> 01:42:38,320
Speaker 3: because it's again like I know, the difference between twenty

1567
01:42:38,320 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 3: and thirty is big, but it's like, my feelings about

1568
01:42:41,479 --> 01:42:45,640
Speaker 3: this movie changed drastically, not just because of like my

1569
01:42:46,000 --> 01:42:49,080
Speaker 3: stage of life, but just because of the world and

1570
01:42:49,240 --> 01:42:53,919
Speaker 3: because of the basic knowledge that I had about countries

1571
01:42:53,920 --> 01:42:55,240
Speaker 3: that were not the one I grew up in.

1572
01:42:55,840 --> 01:42:59,639
Speaker 1: And this is a really fascinating movie to come back

1573
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:02,960
Speaker 1: to and I'm looking forward to coming back to it again.

1574
01:43:03,439 --> 01:43:05,560
Speaker 1: And I also think that like we've touched on that

1575
01:43:06,160 --> 01:43:08,160
Speaker 1: multiple times, but I guess I just wanted to say

1576
01:43:08,160 --> 01:43:11,479
Speaker 1: one more time that I think that very often in

1577
01:43:12,040 --> 01:43:17,080
Speaker 1: coming of age movies about young men, that they speak

1578
01:43:17,240 --> 01:43:25,120
Speaker 1: very dismissively and objectively and horribly about young women in

1579
01:43:25,160 --> 01:43:28,840
Speaker 1: their life in a way that is deeply uncritical, and

1580
01:43:29,600 --> 01:43:32,200
Speaker 1: present it as if like, well, of course we all

1581
01:43:32,240 --> 01:43:36,000
Speaker 1: feel this way. I think that's like how movies about

1582
01:43:36,040 --> 01:43:41,280
Speaker 1: young men have been presented for generations. And I appreciate

1583
01:43:41,479 --> 01:43:45,559
Speaker 1: that while the young men in this movie do speak

1584
01:43:45,760 --> 01:43:51,479
Speaker 1: horrifically about women consistently, and I would say basically right

1585
01:43:51,520 --> 01:43:54,599
Speaker 1: to the very end of the movie, I think it

1586
01:43:54,680 --> 01:43:58,320
Speaker 1: is presented in a critical way, and it is presented

1587
01:43:58,479 --> 01:44:02,519
Speaker 1: in a way that is like, not only is the

1588
01:44:02,560 --> 01:44:06,800
Speaker 1: way that these young men view the women around them

1589
01:44:06,840 --> 01:44:11,719
Speaker 1: oppressive and horrible and offensive and insulting, it is also

1590
01:44:12,640 --> 01:44:18,360
Speaker 1: preventing them from being people. And it's like, I feel

1591
01:44:18,360 --> 01:44:20,280
Speaker 1: like it presents it in a way that because we

1592
01:44:20,439 --> 01:44:25,960
Speaker 1: do care about Tanaje and about Julio, it's like a

1593
01:44:26,000 --> 01:44:28,360
Speaker 1: far more difficult thing to grapple with where you're like

1594
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:33,040
Speaker 1: you're almost dealing with masculinity and patriarchy as a concept

1595
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:37,040
Speaker 1: as opposed to like patriarchy the guy, which we're always

1596
01:44:37,479 --> 01:44:38,320
Speaker 1: talking about.

1597
01:44:38,400 --> 01:44:42,040
Speaker 3: Right true. Also, Jamie, not to call you out, but

1598
01:44:42,120 --> 01:44:44,559
Speaker 3: you sound so tired because I know it's like late

1599
01:44:44,720 --> 01:44:45,320
Speaker 3: where you are.

1600
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:47,960
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's ten twenty two pm, and I am

1601
01:44:48,240 --> 01:44:54,720
Speaker 1: horizontal to sound horizontal because I am leave this in.

1602
01:44:55,000 --> 01:44:57,280
Speaker 1: I want people to know. You know how hard I

1603
01:44:57,680 --> 01:45:01,320
Speaker 1: work so horizontally this show.

1604
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:08,200
Speaker 3: I actively have COVID right now, I know, and look

1605
01:45:08,240 --> 01:45:12,040
Speaker 3: at us working so hard to bring people the Bechdel Castle.

1606
01:45:13,000 --> 01:45:15,759
Speaker 3: I just mentioned that because we should wrap up soon.

1607
01:45:16,000 --> 01:45:19,800
Speaker 3: But just a rapid fire list of little things I

1608
01:45:19,840 --> 01:45:23,400
Speaker 3: want to say. I love when they toast to the glitters?

1609
01:45:24,640 --> 01:45:26,719
Speaker 1: Uh that's her last supper?

1610
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:27,439
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1611
01:45:27,479 --> 01:45:30,639
Speaker 1: Oh she toasted the glitter? Is that her last supper?

1612
01:45:30,840 --> 01:45:30,920
Speaker 3: Like?

1613
01:45:30,960 --> 01:45:32,040
Speaker 1: What marked you watch?

1614
01:45:32,520 --> 01:45:36,760
Speaker 3: Damn right? I think it's hilarious that Julio named his

1615
01:45:37,160 --> 01:45:42,000
Speaker 3: dick resputant. So Jamie, that's something that's a little treat

1616
01:45:42,040 --> 01:45:42,200
Speaker 3: for you.

1617
01:45:42,240 --> 01:45:44,360
Speaker 1: I feel like I appreciate it as a respute and

1618
01:45:44,439 --> 01:45:45,360
Speaker 1: head right.

1619
01:45:46,040 --> 01:45:51,080
Speaker 3: I love that you get horny women representation because between

1620
01:45:51,320 --> 01:45:57,760
Speaker 3: Anna Cecilia and Luisa they're horny and I love to

1621
01:45:57,760 --> 01:46:00,960
Speaker 3: see it. And then I guess the final thing I

1622
01:46:01,000 --> 01:46:07,000
Speaker 3: want to touch on briefly is just comparing American movies

1623
01:46:07,800 --> 01:46:14,080
Speaker 3: representation of Mexico versus a Mexican director in his Portrait

1624
01:46:14,240 --> 01:46:18,800
Speaker 3: of Mexico, and how widely different they are, because in

1625
01:46:18,880 --> 01:46:22,720
Speaker 3: so many, like Hollywood movies, Mexico is depicted as this

1626
01:46:22,920 --> 01:46:28,160
Speaker 3: like homogeneous, dangerous, just all of these like things that

1627
01:46:28,200 --> 01:46:31,720
Speaker 3: carry all these horrible connotations. And I don't know how

1628
01:46:31,800 --> 01:46:34,479
Speaker 3: much we've dived into this in the show, but that

1629
01:46:34,560 --> 01:46:40,439
Speaker 3: like yellow filter that often is placed anytime characters go

1630
01:46:40,760 --> 01:46:44,719
Speaker 3: to anywhere in Latin America. This also happens when characters

1631
01:46:44,760 --> 01:46:49,599
Speaker 3: go to the Middle East, just to sort of suggest, like, oh,

1632
01:46:49,880 --> 01:46:53,920
Speaker 3: what a foreign land we're in, and isn't it so bizarre?

1633
01:46:54,520 --> 01:46:59,800
Speaker 3: And then when you have filmmakers who are handling their

1634
01:46:59,800 --> 01:47:04,440
Speaker 3: own stories and setting a movie in their own country,

1635
01:47:04,960 --> 01:47:08,240
Speaker 3: the difference is night and day. When you have someone

1636
01:47:08,320 --> 01:47:11,920
Speaker 3: who is taking the time to represent and paint a

1637
01:47:11,960 --> 01:47:17,320
Speaker 3: portrait of their home with respect and nuance, the way

1638
01:47:17,360 --> 01:47:20,840
Speaker 3: that again so many Hollywood movies do not bother to

1639
01:47:20,880 --> 01:47:25,760
Speaker 3: do when setting a scene or a whole movie in

1640
01:47:26,360 --> 01:47:29,760
Speaker 3: another country, so I just wanted to touch on that.

1641
01:47:30,600 --> 01:47:34,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that too. I love that there is

1642
01:47:35,000 --> 01:47:39,160
Speaker 2: a movie out there that is about high school students

1643
01:47:39,320 --> 01:47:42,400
Speaker 2: that came out when I was a high school student

1644
01:47:42,720 --> 01:47:47,000
Speaker 2: and I had these road trips. I was a nerd,

1645
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:51,080
Speaker 2: so they were more boring that this road trip. But yeah,

1646
01:47:51,160 --> 01:47:53,960
Speaker 2: I went to a couple go with friends and stay

1647
01:47:54,640 --> 01:48:00,519
Speaker 2: at these really cheap hotels, and it brings out many

1648
01:48:00,640 --> 01:48:04,599
Speaker 2: memories and that's the way I spoke, That's the way

1649
01:48:04,640 --> 01:48:07,960
Speaker 2: I lived my life. So it's a movie about people

1650
01:48:08,160 --> 01:48:13,840
Speaker 2: like me, well not me me, because I was more

1651
01:48:13,960 --> 01:48:17,760
Speaker 2: like Sicilianana, but more like people I knew. And I'm

1652
01:48:17,760 --> 01:48:21,120
Speaker 2: really grateful to go on for giving my generation a

1653
01:48:21,160 --> 01:48:24,519
Speaker 2: movie about about us and how we grew up and

1654
01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:30,040
Speaker 2: how we saw the country change from having like these

1655
01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:35,559
Speaker 2: guys dictatorship and seeing it turned into a democracy. And

1656
01:48:36,080 --> 01:48:39,559
Speaker 2: we were so hopeful when that happened. When the same

1657
01:48:39,600 --> 01:48:44,280
Speaker 2: political party lost, everyone was shocked and happy and hopeful.

1658
01:48:44,360 --> 01:48:47,559
Speaker 2: And if you want to know what came next, read

1659
01:48:47,600 --> 01:48:53,160
Speaker 2: the news. Read the book wasn't very good. So it's

1660
01:48:53,240 --> 01:48:56,280
Speaker 2: like a portrait of that moment when people like me

1661
01:48:56,400 --> 01:48:59,559
Speaker 2: were finishing high school, becoming an adult and the country

1662
01:48:59,680 --> 01:49:05,040
Speaker 2: was becoming a democracy and all that hopefulness. It's portrait

1663
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:07,519
Speaker 2: in this film, and I love it and it has

1664
01:49:07,520 --> 01:49:13,360
Speaker 2: its problems. Yeah, And also Diego and Guyle in Mexico,

1665
01:49:13,400 --> 01:49:16,800
Speaker 2: we're so proud of them. We love them so much.

1666
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:19,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think I speak for all of Mexico,

1667
01:49:19,320 --> 01:49:22,639
Speaker 2: but they've done so much for Mexican cinema because they

1668
01:49:22,880 --> 01:49:25,960
Speaker 2: all the money they earn in Hollywood, they spend in

1669
01:49:26,120 --> 01:49:31,040
Speaker 2: producing good movies in Mexico, and they have they have festivals,

1670
01:49:31,160 --> 01:49:35,559
Speaker 2: they pay for festivals, and they bring those festivals to

1671
01:49:35,840 --> 01:49:42,000
Speaker 2: all all of Mexico. And and they're like unproblematic as

1672
01:49:42,040 --> 01:49:42,760
Speaker 2: far as I know.

1673
01:49:43,560 --> 01:49:45,360
Speaker 3: We always have to say, as far as we know

1674
01:49:45,640 --> 01:49:48,680
Speaker 3: at the time of this record, they're okay to like.

1675
01:49:49,120 --> 01:49:51,519
Speaker 2: As far as I know, they're unproblematic, and they're really

1676
01:49:51,560 --> 01:49:54,400
Speaker 2: cool and they help a lot of the community and

1677
01:49:54,479 --> 01:49:59,479
Speaker 2: they have nonprofits and I love them so much both.

1678
01:50:00,160 --> 01:50:01,679
Speaker 2: It was my favorite way too.

1679
01:50:02,800 --> 01:50:06,400
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, they're the best. Yes, we already talked

1680
01:50:06,439 --> 01:50:09,719
Speaker 3: about the movie passing the Bechdel test in the specific ways,

1681
01:50:10,120 --> 01:50:14,719
Speaker 3: So shall we just move on to the Nipple scale,

1682
01:50:14,880 --> 01:50:19,400
Speaker 3: our famous Lawless scale on which we rate the movie

1683
01:50:20,160 --> 01:50:25,040
Speaker 3: based on examining it through an intersectional feminist lens zero

1684
01:50:25,120 --> 01:50:29,960
Speaker 3: to five nipples. I suppose I would kind of do

1685
01:50:30,640 --> 01:50:33,839
Speaker 3: like the Bechdel cast cheat code and sort of split

1686
01:50:34,000 --> 01:50:38,360
Speaker 3: this down the middle, because, as we've discussed, I think

1687
01:50:38,360 --> 01:50:41,479
Speaker 3: it does a lot of interesting things to examine a

1688
01:50:41,520 --> 01:50:50,120
Speaker 3: really complicated and extremely grounded and authentic male friendship and

1689
01:50:50,320 --> 01:50:56,080
Speaker 3: the way that high school boys tend to be and

1690
01:50:56,240 --> 01:50:58,960
Speaker 3: how they especially in this era of like the early

1691
01:50:59,280 --> 01:51:01,839
Speaker 3: I guess this was taking place in the late nineties,

1692
01:51:01,920 --> 01:51:09,200
Speaker 3: Like attitudes towards women. They're very casually throwing around homophobic

1693
01:51:09,560 --> 01:51:14,640
Speaker 3: slurs and calling each other homophobic slurs. They make disparaging

1694
01:51:14,920 --> 01:51:18,960
Speaker 3: remarks about sex workers and different things like that, Like

1695
01:51:19,000 --> 01:51:24,679
Speaker 3: these are classic late nineties teen boys. But the movie

1696
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:29,080
Speaker 3: is examining that in a way that feels critical, and

1697
01:51:30,000 --> 01:51:35,160
Speaker 3: often by way of Luisa calling them out for their

1698
01:51:35,200 --> 01:51:40,040
Speaker 3: behavior and their toxicity and fragility and things like that.

1699
01:51:40,640 --> 01:51:42,799
Speaker 3: I don't even want to get back into the whole

1700
01:51:44,320 --> 01:51:47,559
Speaker 3: age gap dilemma, but it is there, and it does

1701
01:51:48,120 --> 01:51:52,400
Speaker 3: cast a big nasty cloud over the movie for me.

1702
01:51:53,360 --> 01:51:56,439
Speaker 3: But yeah, if you're able to set that aside, Luisa

1703
01:51:56,479 --> 01:52:02,600
Speaker 3: as a character is a really cool, well rounded, dynamic,

1704
01:52:02,640 --> 01:52:06,360
Speaker 3: interesting character that again we don't often see afforded to

1705
01:52:07,360 --> 01:52:11,160
Speaker 3: women in movies. So there's a lot of things going on,

1706
01:52:12,280 --> 01:52:15,360
Speaker 3: some good, some bad. Again the centering of like these

1707
01:52:16,280 --> 01:52:21,000
Speaker 3: white characters, and only while it does point out and

1708
01:52:21,120 --> 01:52:27,760
Speaker 3: tell little vignettes about other characters that they encounter or

1709
01:52:28,000 --> 01:52:32,360
Speaker 3: you know, pan over to an indigenous person, the movie

1710
01:52:32,439 --> 01:52:38,760
Speaker 3: is still centering these young, privileged people. So two point

1711
01:52:38,840 --> 01:52:42,719
Speaker 3: five nipples, and I'll give one to my first husband,

1712
01:52:43,520 --> 01:52:48,240
Speaker 3: Gail Garcier Brnal, I'll give my second nipple to my

1713
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:53,920
Speaker 3: other husband, Diego Luna, and I'll give my half nipple,

1714
01:52:54,040 --> 01:52:56,160
Speaker 3: and I should just give all two and a half

1715
01:52:57,040 --> 01:53:02,240
Speaker 3: to Marbelle verdu So. Two and a half nipples and

1716
01:53:02,280 --> 01:53:04,719
Speaker 3: the cast gets them.

1717
01:53:05,400 --> 01:53:08,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go. I'll round it up to three.

1718
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:11,040
Speaker 1: For this movie, I think that the two things that

1719
01:53:11,080 --> 01:53:16,639
Speaker 1: are most challenging for me is the very ambiguous age gap,

1720
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:20,280
Speaker 1: at least in the translation that I watch, regardless of

1721
01:53:20,600 --> 01:53:25,320
Speaker 1: her life circumstance, which is dire and we know that,

1722
01:53:25,479 --> 01:53:29,360
Speaker 1: but it's like there is a very predatory way to

1723
01:53:29,439 --> 01:53:31,280
Speaker 1: look at the dynamics in this movie, and I don't

1724
01:53:31,280 --> 01:53:34,400
Speaker 1: want to shy away from that because it is a

1725
01:53:34,640 --> 01:53:36,760
Speaker 1: woman with two young men, because I feel like that

1726
01:53:36,880 --> 01:53:40,160
Speaker 1: is a very common thing that the culture at large

1727
01:53:40,680 --> 01:53:45,160
Speaker 1: is still struggling with, and I don't want to reduce that.

1728
01:53:45,240 --> 01:53:47,120
Speaker 1: And I think it is complicated by the fact that

1729
01:53:47,160 --> 01:53:50,880
Speaker 1: this is a fictional woman like and I say older women,

1730
01:53:50,960 --> 01:53:53,439
Speaker 1: but a woman who could very well be younger than

1731
01:53:53,479 --> 01:53:58,240
Speaker 1: everyone on this call, like, written by two adult men

1732
01:53:58,280 --> 01:54:02,120
Speaker 1: in their forties. And so there is the complication of

1733
01:54:02,200 --> 01:54:05,920
Speaker 1: when we have women characters written by men that you're

1734
01:54:06,000 --> 01:54:10,479
Speaker 1: just like, I cannot judge all of society by how

1735
01:54:10,560 --> 01:54:14,560
Speaker 1: these two brothers chose to write this woman who doesn't exist.

1736
01:54:15,240 --> 01:54:18,880
Speaker 1: It becomes a clusterfuck. However, that dynamic is very real,

1737
01:54:18,960 --> 01:54:22,120
Speaker 1: and especially in like one specific twenty minute chunk of

1738
01:54:22,160 --> 01:54:25,880
Speaker 1: the movie, it was uncomfortable, and I don't want to

1739
01:54:25,920 --> 01:54:28,519
Speaker 1: shy away from feeling uncomfortable about it because I feel

1740
01:54:28,520 --> 01:54:33,720
Speaker 1: like that is inherent to it. That was difficult for me.

1741
01:54:33,880 --> 01:54:35,640
Speaker 1: And then I think the other part is a little

1742
01:54:35,680 --> 01:54:40,560
Speaker 1: trickier for me because it does center white characters in

1743
01:54:40,600 --> 01:54:46,040
Speaker 1: a way that is more mindful of what these upper

1744
01:54:46,040 --> 01:54:51,800
Speaker 1: class white characters are ignoring or are you know, sort

1745
01:54:51,840 --> 01:54:56,960
Speaker 1: of empowered to ignore. It is acknowledging that in a

1746
01:54:57,000 --> 01:55:01,520
Speaker 1: way that I don't think I I've seen in a

1747
01:55:01,520 --> 01:55:06,680
Speaker 1: way that didn't feel pandering or condescending in any other

1748
01:55:07,200 --> 01:55:10,560
Speaker 1: teen movie, coming of age movie, road trip movie that

1749
01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:13,800
Speaker 1: I can think of off the top of my head.

1750
01:55:14,320 --> 01:55:16,600
Speaker 1: And so I think that it is sort of doing

1751
01:55:16,720 --> 01:55:19,000
Speaker 1: a lot of what we've seen in movies at the

1752
01:55:19,040 --> 01:55:22,520
Speaker 1: genre before, but doing it at a higher level, a

1753
01:55:22,560 --> 01:55:26,160
Speaker 1: more thoughtful level, and in a way that didn't feel

1754
01:55:27,000 --> 01:55:33,080
Speaker 1: as fucked up or totally just erasing people. And that's

1755
01:55:33,120 --> 01:55:36,720
Speaker 1: not to say that it is perfect. It definitely isn't,

1756
01:55:36,760 --> 01:55:40,080
Speaker 1: which is part of why it is losing two nipples

1757
01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:46,000
Speaker 1: in my estimation. So I'm going three nipples. Rip Luisa

1758
01:55:46,600 --> 01:55:50,240
Speaker 1: shoes a real one. She deserves better. And I too

1759
01:55:50,360 --> 01:55:53,600
Speaker 1: feel like foam ocean blah blah blah whatever. I do

1760
01:55:53,640 --> 01:55:56,480
Speaker 1: feel like this is something that I am going to

1761
01:55:56,600 --> 01:55:58,480
Speaker 1: figure out at some later point. But I feel like,

1762
01:55:58,640 --> 01:56:03,760
Speaker 1: very often I just want to like examine last words

1763
01:56:03,800 --> 01:56:07,960
Speaker 1: in cinema because I have a feeling that most of

1764
01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:12,040
Speaker 1: them mean basically nothing nothing. But it could be a

1765
01:56:12,080 --> 01:56:15,000
Speaker 1: translation issue here, but in this one, I was like,

1766
01:56:15,120 --> 01:56:17,600
Speaker 1: what the hell is she on about? And I can't

1767
01:56:17,600 --> 01:56:20,360
Speaker 1: ask her because she was never real and also she's

1768
01:56:20,400 --> 01:56:24,680
Speaker 1: fictionally dead. So anyways, I guess I'm giving one nipple

1769
01:56:25,080 --> 01:56:29,160
Speaker 1: to each member of the main cast because all of

1770
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:32,520
Speaker 1: these dynamics, aside the performances in this movie are is like,

1771
01:56:32,720 --> 01:56:36,600
Speaker 1: universally unbelievable, So one to each awesome.

1772
01:56:37,720 --> 01:56:44,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna give it three. One for Maribelle Verdo, who

1773
01:56:44,640 --> 01:56:48,920
Speaker 2: is also in Pants Labyrinth, Yes, yes, and who is

1774
01:56:49,040 --> 01:56:51,560
Speaker 2: also in Flash.

1775
01:56:51,640 --> 01:56:53,720
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, that's right, really mom?

1776
01:56:54,200 --> 01:56:55,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh I've.

1777
01:56:55,120 --> 01:56:55,760
Speaker 1: Never seen that.

1778
01:56:56,200 --> 01:56:58,520
Speaker 3: Well it's that DC movie that came out.

1779
01:56:58,680 --> 01:57:01,760
Speaker 1: Oh it was the had One. Well that's not her

1780
01:57:01,840 --> 01:57:04,840
Speaker 1: fault that Ezra Miller's a fucking evil criminal.

1781
01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:05,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1782
01:57:05,760 --> 01:57:08,480
Speaker 1: Okay, well now we know she.

1783
01:57:08,440 --> 01:57:11,000
Speaker 2: Has to hug as Remiller in the movie.

1784
01:57:11,200 --> 01:57:11,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1785
01:57:12,000 --> 01:57:16,400
Speaker 2: I hope they paid her me too. Yeah. One for

1786
01:57:16,600 --> 01:57:24,040
Speaker 2: Marievelle and one for both Chardo Lustras because in Mexico

1787
01:57:24,080 --> 01:57:27,560
Speaker 2: we still call them lost Chao Lastras we kept the

1788
01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:33,080
Speaker 2: nickname nice. And one for the pigs the pigs, yes,

1789
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:36,520
Speaker 2: the camp We leave the pigs alone.

1790
01:57:36,680 --> 01:57:38,600
Speaker 1: They did nothing wrong, they.

1791
01:57:38,400 --> 01:57:39,400
Speaker 2: Did nothing wrong.

1792
01:57:39,440 --> 01:57:40,560
Speaker 3: They're just being pigs.

1793
01:57:40,640 --> 01:57:41,960
Speaker 2: They were just being pigs.

1794
01:57:42,280 --> 01:57:44,320
Speaker 1: Leave my feral hogs alone.

1795
01:57:44,720 --> 01:57:47,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think I agree with what you say.

1796
01:57:47,680 --> 01:57:52,120
Speaker 2: I mean, there's only one woman as the main character

1797
01:57:52,400 --> 01:57:54,960
Speaker 2: in this movie, and the rest of the women come

1798
01:57:55,000 --> 01:57:58,800
Speaker 2: and go. But for two thousand and one to be

1799
01:57:58,840 --> 01:58:04,160
Speaker 2: a movie about toxic masculinity and the way it still

1800
01:58:04,280 --> 01:58:08,680
Speaker 2: holds up at least that part, the way it criticizes

1801
01:58:09,760 --> 01:58:15,320
Speaker 2: their friendship and the hypocrisy and the shallowness. Is that

1802
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:16,480
Speaker 2: a word shallowness?

1803
01:58:16,640 --> 01:58:16,840
Speaker 3: Yeah?

1804
01:58:16,960 --> 01:58:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, did I just made it up? No, shallowness, the

1805
01:58:20,720 --> 01:58:25,080
Speaker 2: shallowness of their friendship? Yeah, I think it that part

1806
01:58:25,240 --> 01:58:29,120
Speaker 2: at least holds up very well, and I hope more

1807
01:58:29,480 --> 01:58:31,400
Speaker 2: men think about it.

1808
01:58:31,520 --> 01:58:31,960
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1809
01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:36,960
Speaker 2: I wish more men learn something from that movie, because

1810
01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:39,800
Speaker 2: I still know a bunch of people who are in

1811
01:58:39,840 --> 01:58:43,440
Speaker 2: their thirties and forties whose friendship are still like that,

1812
01:58:43,720 --> 01:58:44,480
Speaker 2: and I'm like, what.

1813
01:58:44,400 --> 01:58:45,000
Speaker 3: Are you doing?

1814
01:58:46,000 --> 01:58:50,160
Speaker 1: No, we can do nothing to help them. They have

1815
01:58:50,200 --> 01:58:54,839
Speaker 1: to find out on their own. Yeah, Oh my gosh. Well, Aldrena,

1816
01:58:54,880 --> 01:58:57,680
Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming on truly to cover

1817
01:58:57,920 --> 01:59:03,320
Speaker 1: this wonderful and extremely complicated movie. Really appreciate it.

1818
01:59:04,400 --> 01:59:07,040
Speaker 2: Thank you guys for inviting me. This is a dream.

1819
01:59:07,120 --> 01:59:10,320
Speaker 2: I've been a fan of the Vecnyl cast since I

1820
01:59:10,560 --> 01:59:14,360
Speaker 2: lived in Mexico. I wish I could go back to

1821
01:59:14,480 --> 01:59:18,440
Speaker 2: the past until past Adriana driving her car to work

1822
01:59:18,880 --> 01:59:22,200
Speaker 2: listening to the vecnel cast that someday she's gonna be

1823
01:59:22,280 --> 01:59:26,600
Speaker 2: in it. This has been wonderful. Thank you. I admire

1824
01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:29,600
Speaker 2: you both so much. You guys are great.

1825
01:59:30,040 --> 01:59:31,680
Speaker 1: Likewise, thank you so much.

1826
01:59:31,840 --> 01:59:37,560
Speaker 3: Thank you, and tell us what you'd like to plug.

1827
01:59:37,680 --> 01:59:40,040
Speaker 3: And may I say before you even do that, that

1828
01:59:40,160 --> 01:59:44,160
Speaker 3: I would like to give a ringing endorsement to Adriana's

1829
01:59:44,640 --> 01:59:48,960
Speaker 3: Spanish tutoring. If you want to improve your Spanish or

1830
01:59:49,040 --> 01:59:53,680
Speaker 3: start learning Spanish or anything like that, I highly recommend

1831
01:59:54,040 --> 02:00:02,800
Speaker 3: Adriana's classes and services and she's incredible, so take them anyway. Adriana,

1832
02:00:02,920 --> 02:00:04,040
Speaker 3: what would you like to plug?

1833
02:00:04,160 --> 02:00:10,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm on Instagram at Espanol. That's E s P

1834
02:00:11,560 --> 02:00:16,240
Speaker 2: A n O L C O n A b R

1835
02:00:16,560 --> 02:00:19,800
Speaker 2: I N A A. Maybe you can put it in

1836
02:00:19,840 --> 02:00:20,920
Speaker 2: the show notes.

1837
02:00:22,360 --> 02:00:23,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't.

1838
02:00:24,360 --> 02:00:27,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can find me on Instagram and you can

1839
02:00:27,160 --> 02:00:31,720
Speaker 2: DM me if you're interested. I can teach in person

1840
02:00:32,160 --> 02:00:37,320
Speaker 2: around the LA area or through zoom wherever you are.

1841
02:00:38,000 --> 02:00:41,360
Speaker 2: I think Kaitlin has a good experience.

1842
02:00:41,840 --> 02:00:45,360
Speaker 3: See hell yeah, yeah, Well, thank you again so much

1843
02:00:45,480 --> 02:00:50,280
Speaker 3: for joining us, and come back anytime please. You can

1844
02:00:50,320 --> 02:00:54,480
Speaker 3: follow us on all of those horrible social media platforms.

1845
02:00:54,600 --> 02:00:56,800
Speaker 1: You can find us at back Podcasts.

1846
02:00:56,920 --> 02:01:00,160
Speaker 3: You'll find it there. And then we've got our our

1847
02:01:00,680 --> 02:01:05,240
Speaker 3: Matreon at patreon dot com slash spctel cast, where you,

1848
02:01:05,920 --> 02:01:09,080
Speaker 3: for five dollars a month can have access to two

1849
02:01:09,160 --> 02:01:14,280
Speaker 3: bonus episodes every month, plus the entire back catalog, and

1850
02:01:14,400 --> 02:01:20,720
Speaker 3: we always have just amazing, hilarious, awesome themes that should

1851
02:01:20,800 --> 02:01:23,720
Speaker 3: be nominated for awards, you know, and.

1852
02:01:23,760 --> 02:01:26,800
Speaker 1: You know, I think history will give us a word

1853
02:01:26,880 --> 02:01:30,920
Speaker 1: for that, but unfortunately we would be rip'd by that time.

1854
02:01:31,440 --> 02:01:34,440
Speaker 1: We will be yeah, and the cities we currently live

1855
02:01:34,440 --> 02:01:38,280
Speaker 1: in will be underwater. However, while we are above ground,

1856
02:01:38,600 --> 02:01:43,160
Speaker 1: you can get our merch at deepublic dot com slash

1857
02:01:43,480 --> 02:01:48,600
Speaker 1: bechtel cast. And with that, let's all meet up in

1858
02:01:48,720 --> 02:01:52,920
Speaker 1: a diner. But this time, let's continue to speak to

1859
02:01:52,960 --> 02:01:59,400
Speaker 1: each other. We're changing, we're changing things this time, and

1860
02:01:59,480 --> 02:02:03,520
Speaker 1: we are actually gonna get that coffee absolutely.

1861
02:02:04,360 --> 02:02:06,200
Speaker 3: Bye, Adios