Speaker 1: Wind Down with Jane Kraler and Michael Coughlin and What's
Speaker 1: Up Gang, Happy Monday, Happy Monday to everybody. Got Easton
Speaker 1: and Mark in the studio, Hi popping, popping lights, al
Speaker 1: bottles up in their hand sanitizer, Clorox wipes, We got
Speaker 1: it everywhere, just going up. We're just talking off air.
Speaker 1: We're comparing the people at lightsol like they're partying, like
Speaker 1: it's Wolf of Wall Street over there. Just those guys
Speaker 1: going nuts because so serious, they're so nervous and so
Speaker 1: anxious about this whole thing. But the people who make
Speaker 1: hand sanitized it must be having a party right now. Bonus,
Speaker 1: it's for everybody. Oh yeah, everybody gets some. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: I honestly though, I was talking to my trainer and
Speaker 1: her husband trains a doctor at Vanderbilt, and he was saying,
Speaker 1: like his wife had it, but she was totally fine.
Speaker 1: And then you know, people don't even realize they have it,
Speaker 1: but they do have it, and but it's fine. But
Speaker 1: then I think what worries me is just the old
Speaker 1: their people for sure. But but then I saw one
Speaker 1: this morning and guy was forty eight years old and
Speaker 1: nearly died. He said he was like he was inches
Speaker 1: from death and I'm forty eight years old, So I
Speaker 1: guess you just don't know how it's going to hit you.
Speaker 1: Is that how it is? How did you know him?
Speaker 1: How do you know? No? No, I saw some something
Speaker 1: on social media just pops up about they did an
Speaker 1: interview with him. That's so scary. Yeah, it's just I
Speaker 1: guess it just depends. But um, well, when everyone's listening
Speaker 1: to this, we're not there right now, but we'll be
Speaker 1: in Canada when this comes out next week. So um
Speaker 1: but I'm not like, I'm not too worried about it,
Speaker 1: and I do what wipe the seats with? You know,
Speaker 1: when we did our wind down tour, we were wet
Speaker 1: wiping everything and which, by the way, Easton are the
Speaker 1: dates got moved? Did you hear? I saw that. I
Speaker 1: saw it and I with a single tear rolled down
Speaker 1: my cheek and then I changed my calendar and my phone.
Speaker 1: The dates for Californian Sacramento are being moved to May.
Speaker 1: So yeah, so hopefully people can still know that's a
Speaker 1: that's at the Yeah, May thirty in Los Angeles Saturday
Speaker 1: and May one Sunday with a Sacramento. I just have
Speaker 1: to double check because you just never know, you know,
Speaker 1: and we're hoping everything is going to be better by
Speaker 1: that is that the idea, We're just going to keep going. Well,
Speaker 1: it got canceled because I'm doing a movie up in Canada,
Speaker 1: so that's why I got rescheduled. But yeah, I mean hopefully,
Speaker 1: I mean, are people canceling things? So, I mean I
Speaker 1: heard stagecoaches maybe gonna get you rescheduled. That's done, that's
Speaker 1: going to October. Coachella is going to October moved Like
Speaker 1: I don't because that's that. I feel sad for people's
Speaker 1: you know, everyone's jobs and everyone happening. But at least
Speaker 1: those things are getting moved. Sporting events might be being
Speaker 1: played with like no fans, like March madness, like college basketball,
Speaker 1: same with a c m S. They might have no audience.
Speaker 1: That's just the energy. Yeah. I just wish they would
Speaker 1: do this for the flu though, I really do. We'd
Speaker 1: be having it all the time, like every yeah, every
Speaker 1: every October to January. Everything. You should just be dark,
Speaker 1: dark season, every just off the grid, zombie land like
Speaker 1: the Apocalypse. No more summer break, it's flu break. What's
Speaker 1: that movie where they go around they have like twelve
Speaker 1: hours dawned to dusk where they can just like go
Speaker 1: around and it's like yaking people off. What's perch from people?
Speaker 1: Are ya? What does that means? My words? You know?
Speaker 1: I like to come up with a new words and
Speaker 1: piss michaelf yea. It's like jacking, but yeah, come off,
Speaker 1: it's funny. How you are you? I'm tired from that tour.
Speaker 1: I'm tired, but I'm I'm good. I'm just getting ready
Speaker 1: for the movie and just there's just a lot to
Speaker 1: do before we leave. But it's good. About a hundred
Speaker 1: and seventy three pages to memorize A Wow, can you
Speaker 1: tell us anything about the movie? Wow, it's filming at
Speaker 1: the Ice Hotel in Quebec City. That's so cool, so cool,
Speaker 1: stet out of ice and um, you know, it's the
Speaker 1: typical girl meets boy, boy falls in love with girl.
Speaker 1: Maybe girl might fall in love with boy. I don't know.
Speaker 1: We'll see. I mean like a not really but maybe
Speaker 1: maybe a kisser too too a PG audience. But the
Speaker 1: one of the producers emailed me today and she's like, hey,
Speaker 1: how are you with UM country or how are you
Speaker 1: with UM skiing? And I was like she's like zero
Speaker 1: to ten, and I was like ten just because I'm
Speaker 1: want to be excited, and you know, because I am excited.
Speaker 1: Never skied, but I said ten. But then I looked
Speaker 1: back at the email and she meant cross country skiing,
Speaker 1: and I like, it's just like walking, right, So I'm
Speaker 1: I'm saying I'm still a ten and I'm not going
Speaker 1: to go back on it. But I did respond and
Speaker 1: I was like, but if there's a ski lift, I'm
Speaker 1: negative one. So if we could just confirm there's no heights,
Speaker 1: the ski lifts are a challenge the element. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that's what I had a massive panic attack when
Speaker 1: I was filming an episode one Tree Hill on a
Speaker 1: ski lift. It was awful. It's harder on a snowboard, really, yes,
Speaker 1: because you have only one foot in and you have
Speaker 1: to get off and just put your other foot on
Speaker 1: the board. Last time we went, like a couple of
Speaker 1: years ago from my birthday in Park City, I took
Speaker 1: some guy out getting off, some random guy that had
Speaker 1: to be sitting next to me. I felt so bad.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. Everybody exaggerates on their resumes, you know, everyone
Speaker 1: always says they're better at things than they are, they
Speaker 1: speak more language, and than they do they hire g
Speaker 1: p A. It's funny to know that still even at
Speaker 1: your situation, you've already booked the gig and you're still
Speaker 1: lying about your personal skills. I know. Is that's something,
Speaker 1: isn't it? Because I I just think I want to
Speaker 1: just be so like Gung Ho and like yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: so sighted and like I'm a ten skier, and then
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm not. I've never skied before. I'm screwed.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing with that though. I'll actually back up
Speaker 1: jan on this because when it comes to something like
Speaker 1: athletic athletic or just really anything, Janna is one of
Speaker 1: those people like you know, we all know that guy
Speaker 1: that he's just good at everything, right, He's just you
Speaker 1: give him a baseball and he's throwing strikes. You're give
Speaker 1: him basketball, he's hitting three pointers like for the first
Speaker 1: time ever. Janna is like the same way if it's like, hey,
Speaker 1: we're gonna do this. You see me snowboard about a
Speaker 1: year and a half ago, but that you're also pregnant,
Speaker 1: so you're just kind of like standing on a board.
Speaker 1: But we just clarify that I wasn't pregnant snowboarding. I
Speaker 1: was like, I was, I was two days pregnant. That
Speaker 1: was when we had a miscarriage. Yeah, not because of snowboarding,
Speaker 1: because I see that. I was like, let's clarify that.
Speaker 1: But I was technically pregnant, like by two days. But
Speaker 1: then we lost the embryo, right, But so you you
Speaker 1: didn't really go after it, you didn't really try. So
Speaker 1: I'm just I have so much confidence in you doing
Speaker 1: something athletically that I'm like, yeah, probably by the end
Speaker 1: of this movie, she will be attend at cross country skiing.
Speaker 1: But it isn't cross country skiing, just like walking, like
Speaker 1: I did it when I was I think seven. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you'll be okay. But had you said eight,
Speaker 1: I don't think that would have been a big lie necessarily,
Speaker 1: and they maybe would have had somebody there to kind
Speaker 1: of make sure you understand how to get your boots
Speaker 1: into this better than this. You all know Janna is
Speaker 1: all or nothing cross country skiing the next few days.
Speaker 1: But no, it is a very interesting point that, like,
Speaker 1: why didn't I be more honest about my skill level?
Speaker 1: Did she ask your skill level? What did she ask?
Speaker 1: How do you feel about on a second, this is
Speaker 1: I'm going to read it to you exactly what she
Speaker 1: said one second. Let me get my password in three
Speaker 1: one once she goes okay, so she says okay. Um skiing,
Speaker 1: she says, good afternoon. Um, reaching to find out, on
Speaker 1: a scale of one to ten, how comfortable you are
Speaker 1: with cross country skiing comforts? So are you comfortable with
Speaker 1: skiing up a slight incline? And I was like ten, brilliant, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think you're okay. There, she'll be right, we'll see.
Speaker 1: Now I have a new question answer that's an iPhone. Yes,
Speaker 1: why don't you use facial recognition? I do, but my
Speaker 1: face has the headphones on, and I don't think it. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, all right, I'm just curious. But thanks dad,
Speaker 1: Why aren't you doing this stuff? Trigger? Trigger? Trigger? Well,
Speaker 1: because we were a couple of weeks ago we realized
Speaker 1: Seacrest doesn't use the face things. Well, he was like,
Speaker 1: I don't want that stuff, like it seems like he's
Speaker 1: paranoid that the camera's watching him or something. I think
Speaker 1: some people are like that. It's always watching a man.
Speaker 1: He's filmed ol day long. Yeah, of all people, I'm
Speaker 1: excited I'm excited for Canada. Yeah, I saw. I was wondering,
Speaker 1: how are you Are you pumped? I am actually really pumped.
Speaker 1: I'm really looking forward to. I'm looking forward to. Mike
Speaker 1: had no desire to come to New Iberia. When I
Speaker 1: said we're going to Quebec City, He's like, we're calming,
Speaker 1: will calm. The whole time. It was like, let's do it.
Speaker 1: Finds out that there's a ski left place like twenty
Speaker 1: minutes away. Yeah, um no, I am excited because I'm
Speaker 1: really pumped just to get the kids out and take
Speaker 1: them somewhere. We haven't really taken him anywhere this year,
Speaker 1: you know, just get him out and get him in
Speaker 1: the snow and have some fun. Um. I got the
Speaker 1: cutest snow pants for Jolly and Jay. So I'm so.
Speaker 1: I just think it's gonna be cool. You know, it's
Speaker 1: so magical for kids, it is, and I think that's
Speaker 1: why I'm so excited, because I'm still a big kid.
Speaker 1: So I'm just like, well, it's so, I'm pumped. Fine, Um, Well,
Speaker 1: I am excited because we have Jancy done Um on
Speaker 1: the show today. Her book Perfect Time title just honestly
Speaker 1: makes me just happy inside it's called How Not to
Speaker 1: Hate Your Husband After Kids Mark. So we're going to
Speaker 1: get her on the phone, but first let's take a break.
Speaker 1: It's Janina from Love and Sight, a new I Heart
Speaker 1: Radio podcast all about the TV show Love Is Blind?
Speaker 1: Are you addicted to Love is Blind? We are here
Speaker 1: to satisfy all your Love is Blind cravings and if
Speaker 1: you haven't watched yet, join us everywhere you listen to
Speaker 1: podcasts for everything you need to know. Do you want
Speaker 1: to find out how Damian and I got back together? Yep,
Speaker 1: I'm the girl that got left at the altar. The
Speaker 1: Love is Blind cast will join us, telling us things
Speaker 1: they have never revealed, and you get all the behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, all the details, all the never seen footage,
Speaker 1: and the ultimate question, can an experiment like this actually work?
Speaker 1: Is love truly blind? And I Heart Radio is bringing
Speaker 1: you every little nugget Love Insight available now everywhere you
Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. Hi, Hi, jan It's Mike and Jana. Hey. Hello,
Speaker 1: I've listened to every single episode, so I'm a super fan.
Speaker 1: I hope I won't creep both of you out. I
Speaker 1: love it, um and I love How to Not Hate
Speaker 1: your Husband After Kids? Um? I love that you wrote
Speaker 1: that book. That is so awesome. Um, how how old
Speaker 1: are your kids? Okay, I just I just have the one.
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't even have to like you guys,
Speaker 1: it was just one and cheese. Now ken and I wrote.
Speaker 1: I wrote the book for the same reason that you
Speaker 1: all talk about what can be painful subjects on the podcast,
Speaker 1: because there's so much shame around fighting when you first
Speaker 1: have a baby. I felt like no one did it,
Speaker 1: and now I know, like everyone does it. Yeah. It's
Speaker 1: so funny because I was just talking to a friend
Speaker 1: the other day and she was I'm not going to
Speaker 1: name her name, but she was like, you know, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: Their baby is like five months old, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I really don't like my husband. And I was like, girl,
Speaker 1: it's just a thing. After you have kids. It's really hard,
Speaker 1: but you guys just have to really work on your communication.
Speaker 1: And but she's like, but I didn't know it was
Speaker 1: going to be like that, and I'm like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like people should have it like a pamphlet on
Speaker 1: how to not hite your kids. How did I hate
Speaker 1: your husband after kids? And just exactly why you wrote
Speaker 1: your book because people don't really talk about it. No, no,
Speaker 1: And I have friends after I wrote the book who said,
Speaker 1: oh yeah. I didn't talk to John for two years
Speaker 1: after the twins were born. I was like, why why
Speaker 1: didn't you say anything to me? I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it's just it's this thing where when you have a
Speaker 1: boyfriend or a girlfriend, you kind of talk about them,
Speaker 1: maybe with your friends a little bit, but it's a
Speaker 1: little different when you're married. And I felt like I
Speaker 1: couldn't talk about it with my mother, who has a
Speaker 1: really long memory and would would remember twenty years from
Speaker 1: now anything that I told her. So and I just
Speaker 1: felt and I also felt embarrassed. I thought, you know,
Speaker 1: we would get in these fights and our pattern, um,
Speaker 1: this may sound familiar to a lot of people, is
Speaker 1: called pursuer distance, or where I would yell and he
Speaker 1: would retreat, and the more I would yell, the more
Speaker 1: he would sort of like turn gray and crumple into
Speaker 1: a little ball and so so, and I would be like,
Speaker 1: can you hear me now? And I would I would
Speaker 1: swear I'm from New Jersey. I'm very creative with my
Speaker 1: variations of you know, dick dick, dick head, dick bag,
Speaker 1: and so what my daughter saw I mean you all,
Speaker 1: I know, on another um wind down, you were talking
Speaker 1: about being worried about you know, oh, how much is
Speaker 1: my daughter seen in the early days and isn't going
Speaker 1: to impact her later? Is Joey going to be you know,
Speaker 1: will the show up later? I'm sure you've heard from
Speaker 1: many parents that have said they don't remember anything, you know,
Speaker 1: before the age of four, including the expensive Disney vacation
Speaker 1: we took him to. But like with with us, I
Speaker 1: started noticing Sylvie, my daughter started changing her personality at
Speaker 1: around age four. Like you already through a lot of
Speaker 1: that stuff, but with us, it was really reaching a crescendo.
Speaker 1: And so what were you seeing now? She just turned
Speaker 1: for She just turned for So she's and you you
Speaker 1: have learned how to disagree in like a healthy way.
Speaker 1: And we were in the meantime, our daughter was four,
Speaker 1: and what started happening is You're like, are you going
Speaker 1: to get a question in at any point? I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I'm like talking about this is the subject I loved
Speaker 1: talking about. We noticed that her personality was changing. She
Speaker 1: was this bubbly, happily happy girl, and she started getting
Speaker 1: kind of quiet and she started getting a little watchful
Speaker 1: and then because I was the one yelling, even though
Speaker 1: Tom admits, now that's my husband. He he was the
Speaker 1: problem with us when when we had the baby, is
Speaker 1: that he he was this evolved guy and he was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to help out. He didn't. We we fell
Speaker 1: back into these really old patterns where he didn't do much.
Speaker 1: Like my life changed a lot and I did most
Speaker 1: of the housework in the childcare, and his didn't change
Speaker 1: that much. Not only that, he took up long distance
Speaker 1: cycling the week our baby was born and training for
Speaker 1: the New York Marathon perfect time. It was, yeah, So
Speaker 1: he was literally like running away and cycling away from us.
Speaker 1: And so there was a tension. And anyway, when when
Speaker 1: I would get upset that he was like not doing
Speaker 1: anything and I was doing most of the stuff. What
Speaker 1: our daughter saw was not like gender inequality. She's not
Speaker 1: some feminist scholar. She saw me yelling and him like shrinking,
Speaker 1: and so she would jump in front of him and say,
Speaker 1: don't yell at daddy, and I thought, oh crap. And
Speaker 1: so that's the dynamic she saw and we that's what
Speaker 1: prompted me to sort of do this and to write
Speaker 1: the book and to go through intense they're up be
Speaker 1: we do intensive to is because I thought, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: changing my daughter's personality. And it makes me sort of
Speaker 1: sad now because I think, like, gee, I wasn't even
Speaker 1: concerned that our marriage was falling into the toilet. It
Speaker 1: was more about we're ruining our kid. But look whatever
Speaker 1: gets you there, you know we we we took steps
Speaker 1: to improve after that and how to fight fair? So
Speaker 1: how do you not hate your husband after kids? What
Speaker 1: are was? What are son? Like? Please give me something
Speaker 1: tangible to hold onto? Okay? What I Okay? Fighting in
Speaker 1: a healthy way number one? And you know, just one
Speaker 1: more thing about if if your children you know, see
Speaker 1: you disagree in a healthy way, as you've mentioned both
Speaker 1: of you've mentioned on the podcast, like, it is a
Speaker 1: good thing. And I just wanted to tell you before
Speaker 1: I go on that there was this great research at
Speaker 1: the University of West Virginia that I think about a lot,
Speaker 1: and they observed thirteen year olds, a bunch of them
Speaker 1: who um were watching their parents fight in both healthy
Speaker 1: and unhealthy ways. And that's where all my issues come from. Yeah,
Speaker 1: Like and then they went back and it was a
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty seven teenagers when they were sixteen. They
Speaker 1: found that those kids were more likely, the ones that
Speaker 1: saw their parents disagree in a healthy way, more likely
Speaker 1: to stand up to peer pressure when offered alcohol or drugs.
Speaker 1: So I think about that all the time. I'm like, Okay,
Speaker 1: now that we're disagreeing in mostly a healthy way, this
Speaker 1: is good modeling, behavioral modeling for her to follow. Like, so,
Speaker 1: so that makes me feel a little bit better, Like
Speaker 1: if if you know, then it isn't scary like in
Speaker 1: my family it was like simmering tension and then explosions. Well,
Speaker 1: that's not a healthy way to disagree, you know. And
Speaker 1: so she sees us we use the same therapy language
Speaker 1: that you guys used. Don't say no, say yes, and
Speaker 1: you know, talk about your feelings. So the best ways
Speaker 1: that I have found to not have that hatred. And
Speaker 1: I really should have called the book How How to
Speaker 1: Love Your Husband after Kids, but it wouldn't have sold
Speaker 1: as well. Look at it like I don't have time
Speaker 1: to love him right now. So one is, don't expect
Speaker 1: him to read your mind. And this was my classic
Speaker 1: thing that I did. I really was doing that thing
Speaker 1: that Burnet Brown calls this the story I'm making up,
Speaker 1: which is I would make up a story for him
Speaker 1: like ha ha, I'm sitting on the couch when my
Speaker 1: wife's doing all the work me. You know, he wasn't gloating,
Speaker 1: he just didn't know. And I would do this thing
Speaker 1: where I would hate prepare dinner and bang pats pots around,
Speaker 1: and it was like, what Just tell him how you feel,
Speaker 1: tell him what you need. And so one thing is
Speaker 1: just don't expect him to read your mind. Number two
Speaker 1: it's fight fairly use I describe the problem and not
Speaker 1: the person, not you're sitting on the couch, but I
Speaker 1: need some help, or there's there's crap on the floor,
Speaker 1: can you pick it up? Describe the situation. I know
Speaker 1: you know all of this, and also describe how you feel,
Speaker 1: because I have found someone can't argue with how you feel.
Speaker 1: If you say I feel depressed that you forgot to
Speaker 1: pick up diapers, well they can't argue with that you
Speaker 1: feel depressed. It's kind of concrete, you know, So that
Speaker 1: sort of heads off that like next argument. And another
Speaker 1: thing is paraphrasing, and that I learned from I I
Speaker 1: interviewed a couple of FBI crisis negotiators because I thought
Speaker 1: they would know how to calm someone down in three minutes.
Speaker 1: They do so. My friend Gary, who used to run
Speaker 1: the crisis negotiation unit of the FBI for thirty years,
Speaker 1: he said that everyone just wants to be heard, whether
Speaker 1: it's someone that's like holding up a bank or a
Speaker 1: prison riot which he had to put down. He said,
Speaker 1: people want to be heard, so you paraphrase what they're
Speaker 1: trying to say to you. I hear you. Guys do
Speaker 1: it all the time on the podcast. Is like you
Speaker 1: repeat back what the person is saying in your own words.
Speaker 1: Has if I felt like tom my husband was hearing me,
Speaker 1: it immediately called me down, like it really did, and
Speaker 1: and so that helps. And also saying thank you. There's
Speaker 1: this research from the University of Georgia that that's one
Speaker 1: of those habits that predict whether someone will stay married
Speaker 1: for a really long time is just saying thank you
Speaker 1: to each other. And it can be annoying when you're
Speaker 1: kind of in it and you're fighting or squabbling. You
Speaker 1: don't really necessarily want to say, like, oh, you know,
Speaker 1: thank you for um picking up the kid after school.
Speaker 1: But those little thank you's make a huge difference. I mean,
Speaker 1: I could go on and on. I learned so much
Speaker 1: that I put into practice every day because it is
Speaker 1: something you have to practice, isn't it. Um. Another one
Speaker 1: that someone told me is a phrase that I use
Speaker 1: a lot is what does it cost you? And that
Speaker 1: is don't would do this thing where he would come
Speaker 1: home from a soccer game on the week and then
Speaker 1: he would take a shower for twenty minutes, and for
Speaker 1: some reason, that shower annoyed the crap out of me.
Speaker 1: I would be like, you know what I mean, I
Speaker 1: take a military shower for what are you doing in there? Why?
Speaker 1: But then I thought like, but we're not giving ourselves
Speaker 1: that time. That's what I've realized too though. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know what, why can't I take a long shower, Jianna,
Speaker 1: That's exactly why, Like you default to resentment, but you
Speaker 1: could take a long shower too. Yeah, and that's and
Speaker 1: that's something Mike. You say to me, why can't because
Speaker 1: I have to do this and then the kids and whatever.
Speaker 1: He's like, that's on you, and I'm like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I was like, crap, it is on me. So now
Speaker 1: I take a really long showers because he takes really
Speaker 1: long poops and I don't resent his poops anymore because
Speaker 1: I'm taking a really long shower. Yeah, and it's okay.
Speaker 1: And the more you do that the better. And like
Speaker 1: even you know, and I would I would ask myself,
Speaker 1: what does it cost me? Like here, I'm baking. I
Speaker 1: love to bake. My child is fine, she's playing with
Speaker 1: legos or whatever. It's not costing me anything. I'm just annoyed.
Speaker 1: So I had to I have to ask myself all
Speaker 1: the time. And you're so right about the resentment, Like
Speaker 1: is it because you're jealous that you you're not giving
Speaker 1: yourself permission to do that too? Like I would do
Speaker 1: this thing where he would go out for a run
Speaker 1: or whatever, and I would think, oh, yeah, nice, and
Speaker 1: I thought I could go out for a run. I
Speaker 1: just choose not to. He's okay with the kid, he's
Speaker 1: not going to kill the kids, okay. But we put
Speaker 1: so much pressure on ourselves. So that's the same thing
Speaker 1: where it's like I get resentment. I'm like, man, I'm
Speaker 1: resentful that you can sit there and have a twenty
Speaker 1: minute poop because I'm like, do not think about what
Speaker 1: maybe Joelian Jason's right now or what we have to
Speaker 1: do or the next step or maybe fully you know,
Speaker 1: forwarding the laundry or if it's like so, then I
Speaker 1: get resentful that maybe he's not thinking about those things.
Speaker 1: But it's maybe not and he might not be thinking
Speaker 1: about those things. But that's okay, that's not how his
Speaker 1: brain works, but it's how my brain works. And so
Speaker 1: it's like, but do I really want him to think
Speaker 1: of things that I think? No, because then it would
Speaker 1: just be you know, super chaotic. We Yeah, we have
Speaker 1: a similar dynamic in that I cannot. I have a
Speaker 1: hard time with downtime, and I feel like I need to,
Speaker 1: like you, I need to beat Jenna. I need to
Speaker 1: do something productive every second of the day, which is
Speaker 1: also it's called time contamination, and it pertains to women
Speaker 1: only where you get a spare twenty minutes and instead
Speaker 1: of like sitting down in the cup of tier doing
Speaker 1: anything that's a little seft care, you're like, I gotta
Speaker 1: go buy you know, sports equipment for the kids, or
Speaker 1: got to go pick up something the grocer, Like you can't.
Speaker 1: It gives me anxiety. It gives me anxiety witnessing that,
Speaker 1: and that's my time is. Lunch has become my favorite
Speaker 1: meal of the day. He puts on his little his
Speaker 1: his his Beats headphones, he grabs his thing, brings his iPad.
Speaker 1: And for the longest time, I was so resentful of
Speaker 1: your lunch time, and I'm like, wow, a lunch time.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that just be so great to have my own
Speaker 1: time for thirty five minutes, I sit in the office,
Speaker 1: I watched whatever show I'm watching at the moment, I
Speaker 1: eat my lunch. And the thing is is breakfast is
Speaker 1: chaotic because you got the kids. Dinner is usually chaotic,
Speaker 1: and I'm usually the one cooking dinner, so we gotta
Speaker 1: feed the kids. I gotta cook dinner and and everything.
Speaker 1: So I'm like, lunch is my meal. I was like,
Speaker 1: this is my thirty or forty minutes every day. Don't
Speaker 1: bother me. And now Genna finally realizes if she comes
Speaker 1: by the office door like window and see that my
Speaker 1: friends on, She's like, oh, I'll come back. Yes, I'm
Speaker 1: finally respecting it. But in the beginning at a really
Speaker 1: hard time, because I was like, oh, he just sits
Speaker 1: down and he doesn't even know, like what has to
Speaker 1: happen in the house, and I just spew all this
Speaker 1: hatred in my head. And then I was Then I
Speaker 1: finally realized it's the same thing with the poop, Like
Speaker 1: I am entitled to have my long shower, and I
Speaker 1: sit in the shower now and I'm just like, ah,
Speaker 1: this is amazing. But I still don't drink my tea
Speaker 1: in the morning. I can do a lot like that
Speaker 1: really is restorative. Even if you grab ten minutes like
Speaker 1: of just time where you're not where your mind isn't going,
Speaker 1: it can really help throughout your day. Right, Yeah, Jancy,
Speaker 1: what do you see? So you mentioned kind of some
Speaker 1: things about you know, um asking what you need and
Speaker 1: not allowing basically telling him that so he doesn't have
Speaker 1: to read your mind. Is there anything that Tom's doing
Speaker 1: that he's changed that you've seen that's been helpful for
Speaker 1: you and y'all's marriage. Um, yes, that's a good question,
Speaker 1: and you know, he he I. There's a couple of things.
Speaker 1: One is that he would just simply ask need a hand,
Speaker 1: Like I wish that. We're still at the point where
Speaker 1: I wish he would, um just get up and do
Speaker 1: what needs to be done. He's not quite there yet,
Speaker 1: but he says, if I say to you, do you
Speaker 1: need a hand? You know, tell me what to do,
Speaker 1: and I'll do it. Does that bother you? Though? Sorry,
Speaker 1: I don't want to interject with that, because sometimes that
Speaker 1: bothers me that I have to ask. I understand that
Speaker 1: it's against the mind reading thing, but I'm like, why why? Why?
Speaker 1: Why do I have to ask? But if it's something
Speaker 1: right in front of your face, I just have such
Speaker 1: a hard time being like, why can't you see that's
Speaker 1: what I need you to do right now? And I
Speaker 1: have the hardest time with that. And I'm learning to
Speaker 1: be like, yes, I would love for you to help
Speaker 1: me while I'm carrying ten other things right now, to
Speaker 1: pick up the bag that I'm carrying. Would love that,
Speaker 1: But it's why is that so? But I understand the
Speaker 1: mind reading, but I don't understand the man's brain. Sometimes
Speaker 1: you look through a pink lens, we look through a
Speaker 1: blue lens. We're just different species. Is that truly what
Speaker 1: it is? Might because I we're not taking my sprain.
Speaker 1: I think I think it is part of what it is.
Speaker 1: It's because sometimes those things will be right under my
Speaker 1: nose and my brains just not there. Women, like you said,
Speaker 1: you guys have that time contamination that you talk about
Speaker 1: because your brains are just constantly going into doing ten
Speaker 1: million things at once. I truly think that women should
Speaker 1: be the CEOs and presidents of this world because we
Speaker 1: would probably be a much more efficient uh government and
Speaker 1: economy if that was the case. So it's just one
Speaker 1: of those things where we're just we're simplistic generally speaking,
Speaker 1: where it's I have one task at hand, to do
Speaker 1: that task, Okay, onto the next one. Where scientifically, Janna,
Speaker 1: if she had to go do something in the office,
Speaker 1: it would take her twenty minutes just to walk fifty
Speaker 1: ft because she would everything she would walk by, she
Speaker 1: would have to Oh, I gotta do this, Oh I
Speaker 1: gotta do that, I gotta do this. On her way
Speaker 1: to the office to do whatever it is that I said, Hey,
Speaker 1: we got to meet the office to do this at
Speaker 1: this time, and I still would't have Pete from that morning. Well,
Speaker 1: what what helped Tom a lot is when I explained
Speaker 1: the concept of behavioral modeling, and it's it's simply that
Speaker 1: you can say anything you want to kids, but what
Speaker 1: they what they act on, is what they see you do. See.
Speaker 1: So I was doing a lot of like Gold's rule,
Speaker 1: you know, all that like rhetoric that you do for
Speaker 1: our daughter. But what she saw was dad sitting on
Speaker 1: the couch. And so I showed him some research and
Speaker 1: I said, this is what is happening right now, is
Speaker 1: she is forming expectations of how her mate is going
Speaker 1: to treat her when she grows up. So if you
Speaker 1: want her to eventually marry some guy who sits on
Speaker 1: his butt, then keep doing what you're doing. He didn't
Speaker 1: like that people are just putting myself in his shoes.
Speaker 1: I would have been right up off the couch right,
Speaker 1: like like you're already like picturing, like putting your hands
Speaker 1: around the future husband's neck, right. And so she that
Speaker 1: worked for him like nothing else. And again it was
Speaker 1: because he's thinking of our child, not like, oh, your
Speaker 1: wife needs a hand, and again like it's kind of sad,
Speaker 1: but it did work because he was like every time
Speaker 1: he jumps up and helps me with the dishes or whatever,
Speaker 1: you know, she sees that and she forms an expectation
Speaker 1: of what she's going to have later. That was that
Speaker 1: was life changing for both of us. So he and
Speaker 1: and it was almost like he was acting in a
Speaker 1: bad community theater play at first, like honey, do you
Speaker 1: new do you can I cook a little dinner with
Speaker 1: you know. But but after a while it became natural
Speaker 1: and this is now what she thinks as her new normal.
Speaker 1: So great. You know, do you have any regrets at
Speaker 1: all with anything that you've done parenting wise that you
Speaker 1: were like, man, I wish I could go back. Is
Speaker 1: it the not yet? Is it screaming or is it
Speaker 1: you know, is there something that's really You kind of
Speaker 1: think back and you're like, oh, that kind of stings
Speaker 1: a little. Oh god, yes, I mean our fights got
Speaker 1: intense and I was so naive at the time. I
Speaker 1: hadn't done any research and I just didn't know. But
Speaker 1: you know, I write for like Oprah magazine. You think
Speaker 1: I'd know this crap, but I didn't. It was like,
Speaker 1: we're damaging her and we didn't know, and we would
Speaker 1: we would do the classic thing. We would sit and
Speaker 1: watch we all three, you would watch Tree George and
Speaker 1: we would fight over her big toddler head and I
Speaker 1: would think, you know, she doesn't know what we're doing.
Speaker 1: She has no idea, and she did know, and like
Speaker 1: you know, babies brains they're measured. Um, I know you
Speaker 1: had an expert talking about this, but like they react to.
Speaker 1: They have a stress response to the tone of your voice.
Speaker 1: Because I was thinking, our baby doesn't understand English. You know,
Speaker 1: we can fight, I could, she doesn't know the word
Speaker 1: dick head, and she was thinking I see now I
Speaker 1: am eating up with regret because that's what we do, right.
Speaker 1: We feel guilty and I'm thinking, like, why did we
Speaker 1: do it? Why didn't I treat him with respect? It's
Speaker 1: her father and another thing that I feel guilty about.
Speaker 1: As I was doing the classic thing where if you
Speaker 1: thought the night before, at lunch or breakfast the next day,
Speaker 1: I would be like a little chilly with Tom, but
Speaker 1: super sweet to Sylvie, my daughter, so it would be like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: are you taking her to school or what? Like what's
Speaker 1: the deal? And then to her I would be like medius, okay,
Speaker 1: you know well, and I that that really bothers me
Speaker 1: that I did that, you know, but what can you do? Well,
Speaker 1: here's here's the reason. Here's why I said that and
Speaker 1: asked you that is because we all wish we could
Speaker 1: maybe go back. I wish there was plenty of arguments
Speaker 1: that I wish we could go back and redo and
Speaker 1: have it in our room and not have the kids witness.
Speaker 1: But that's just the thing where Mom's we're doing our
Speaker 1: best and we're learning, and that's like the you know,
Speaker 1: that's the best we can do. So yes, and like
Speaker 1: and really they don't if if you want to, you know,
Speaker 1: I've quitted Sylvie. I've remember we got her tickets to
Speaker 1: the circus in the front row. There was practice. She
Speaker 1: was practically riding an elephant at the circus. Right. She
Speaker 1: doesn't remember it at all. And I took at a
Speaker 1: second mortgage to get those circus tickets, and like every
Speaker 1: time I asked her about stuff like this, I'm like, oh,
Speaker 1: if you don't remember like the circus, then you maybe
Speaker 1: you don't remember us fighting. And I just try to
Speaker 1: like give myself a break, which is another thing, you know,
Speaker 1: like that. That's another thing that threw a lot of therapy.
Speaker 1: You know. I remember when therapist said to me, when
Speaker 1: you're getting down on yourself, how do you talk to yourself?
Speaker 1: Like what do you call yourself? Or what do you say?
Speaker 1: And it's that self talking. I was I realized that
Speaker 1: not only was that not being nice, it wasn't being
Speaker 1: nice to me. She said like, well what do you
Speaker 1: call yourself? And again I'm from New Jersey, so I
Speaker 1: would say like, oh, I don't know. I'll say like, oh,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have done that, you you stupid bitch. And
Speaker 1: she's like, well you, uh huh, why would do that?
Speaker 1: Why would you do that? And you know, she even
Speaker 1: taught me this corny little thing that I do now
Speaker 1: when I'm feeling anxious. She said, hold your own hand,
Speaker 1: you know, remind yourself that you're on your own side.
Speaker 1: And you know I do that too. I try to
Speaker 1: not not. It's hard, though, isn't it. I mean, it's hard,
Speaker 1: don't don't you find like both of you, it's just
Speaker 1: it's hard not to look back. But but what can
Speaker 1: you do? And you do a better job going forward?
Speaker 1: I you know, it's like what Oprah says, you know better,
Speaker 1: you do better now. I do know better since I
Speaker 1: researched all this stuff in the book, So I do better,
Speaker 1: you know. I have a question about another one of
Speaker 1: your books, Jancy, the one why is my mother getting
Speaker 1: a tattoo? And other questions I wish I never had
Speaker 1: an answer. So was that an actual question you had
Speaker 1: to answer? Mike, listen to this. We're all Thanksgiving and
Speaker 1: my mother she's um Southern. She grew up in Alabama.
Speaker 1: She was a beauty queen mother and bell. She was
Speaker 1: the Azalea trail Aid of Mobile, Alabama. And she she
Speaker 1: wears pink table mit sweaters and she belongs to the
Speaker 1: Garden Club. Right, so we're all eating and she says,
Speaker 1: I have an announcement. I'm gonna get a tattoo. She
Speaker 1: was sixty eight at the time, So all of this,
Speaker 1: like did this thing where the fork is in midair
Speaker 1: when we're eating. We're like, what you just say? And
Speaker 1: and I worked at Rolling Stone for many years. I
Speaker 1: don't have a tattoo. And and so she said, I
Speaker 1: want to Raven on my wrist. She went and got.
Speaker 1: I mean I supervised it because I'm like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: I'll write about this if nothing else. You know, my
Speaker 1: dad was horrified. And we went to a big tattoo
Speaker 1: parlor and we got she got a big black tattoo
Speaker 1: of a raven. It's maybe like three inches. And I said,
Speaker 1: why a raven. She's like, I just like Ravens. I'm not,
Speaker 1: it's not about ed grow and Poe. I just like Ravens.
Speaker 1: I was like, all right, So now you know she's
Speaker 1: almost seventy eight, and she loves going to like Target
Speaker 1: and like reaching out with the credit cards so that
Speaker 1: people can see that big black raven poking out of
Speaker 1: her pink cable sweater rocking streak that I never knew about.
Speaker 1: It's still weird to me out a little bit, but um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, you never know what people are gonna do, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: And it's I'm interested. I was wondering, you know where
Speaker 1: that story was personal for you, because I mean that's
Speaker 1: something Janna and I are going to have to talk
Speaker 1: about with our kids. And it's interesting because we both
Speaker 1: have a lot of tattoos. I mean, I have a
Speaker 1: full sleeve that I've been working on, and so I
Speaker 1: know that it's inevitable the kids already noticing them. But
Speaker 1: I already feel myself not being a hypocrite, really, But
Speaker 1: so I have a brother that's fourteen years younger than
Speaker 1: me and the same parents everything. He was just a
Speaker 1: nice little surprise in addition to the family. He's a
Speaker 1: freshman in college right now. He got his first tattoo
Speaker 1: actually with Janna and I. He came out to l
Speaker 1: a last year when he was eighteen. He already got
Speaker 1: a second one and even the part of me like,
Speaker 1: because we're so far apart, I feel like another parent almost.
Speaker 1: At the same time time, I kind of want to
Speaker 1: be like, hey, man, like, why don't you slow it
Speaker 1: down a little bit? You're still young, you know. But
Speaker 1: here I am with all tatted up, and yeah, there's
Speaker 1: not much I can really say so, but I'm already
Speaker 1: anticipating that that, you know, interaction with my children where
Speaker 1: it's just like I can't really see anything. But I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna try to at least push them along to
Speaker 1: wait later on in their life so they know for sure.
Speaker 1: My goal is to get them to twenty six. Okay,
Speaker 1: twenty six. But when Mike, when did you have do
Speaker 1: your very first tattoo? How old were you? I was
Speaker 1: in college. I was probably nineteen, okay nineteen. That's kind
Speaker 1: of when you know your own mind, right, I mean,
Speaker 1: looking back, was that the right was it? Was it
Speaker 1: a design you still like or was it a good decision? Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's I don't have anything on me that I necessarily
Speaker 1: regret from that standpoint, from from the purpose or from
Speaker 1: getting them, but it's still still you grow, you you
Speaker 1: things change in your life, so to get something that's
Speaker 1: particular for one situation, especially if it's words, it's difficult
Speaker 1: to turn that into something else. So it's just one
Speaker 1: of those things that reading that title of that book
Speaker 1: just kind of brought up from me. Where you know,
Speaker 1: we all have we're all going to be hypocrites at
Speaker 1: some point as parents, right, we're gonna say, hey, don't
Speaker 1: drink and tell you're this age, don't try we eat
Speaker 1: and tell you this that you know, any of that stuff,
Speaker 1: when really we might have done it way before that.
Speaker 1: I still don't know how to frame it though. Have
Speaker 1: you Have you guys talked about how you're going to
Speaker 1: when they get older, how you're going to do something
Speaker 1: like drinking, because again, my daughter is going to be
Speaker 1: eleven in May, and I don't know how much to share.
Speaker 1: I'm now a't that like, I'm sure it seems so
Speaker 1: far off to the two of you, right, but like
Speaker 1: we have to get an alignment Tommy about what we're
Speaker 1: going to share, and I just don't know. And also,
Speaker 1: jes you ever had any drinks or drunks or any
Speaker 1: you were like totally clean in high school? Right? But yes,
Speaker 1: the only reason is I truly believe is because my
Speaker 1: parents because well my mom, my mom was like, you
Speaker 1: want a wine cooler? And when I'm fifteen, and I
Speaker 1: was like sure, like I'll have a sip of it,
Speaker 1: so I didn't feel like I had to hide it,
Speaker 1: you know. And when I'm at my friend's house where
Speaker 1: my friends came over, it was a key basket and hey,
Speaker 1: if you're going to drink, you're gonna do it here
Speaker 1: and you're not leaving, and everyone's staying. And at that
Speaker 1: time there wasn't any ubers or whatever, so everyone stayed
Speaker 1: at the house, but no one was getting drunk because
Speaker 1: it was just it was so cool with my mom,
Speaker 1: let us have a wine cooler. So for me, in
Speaker 1: my opinion, it's you know, I don't want them to
Speaker 1: fear it because then they're going to hide it. I
Speaker 1: want them. I want them to be able to be like, hey,
Speaker 1: if you're going to have a sip, you know, do
Speaker 1: it with me and you can try it. But after that,
Speaker 1: like I'm not your buddy, buddy, Like we're not gonna
Speaker 1: sit here and have a drink. You're not gonna finish it.
Speaker 1: I'll give you a sip of it if you want
Speaker 1: to taste it, but you have to be responsible about
Speaker 1: it too, and will never we will never be that
Speaker 1: house where oh we can go over to the Carson's
Speaker 1: house and when we're sixteen and week are on all
Speaker 1: the drink there because the parents don't care. That ain't
Speaker 1: never happen. No, no, no, no, But I just I still,
Speaker 1: you know, if if she wants to try a sip,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna let her have a sip and then I'm
Speaker 1: going to educate or like, hey, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: you know, she's definitely not going to have a glass
Speaker 1: of wine, you know, at the house. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, if she isn't a senior in high school,
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna let her have a glass of wine
Speaker 1: with me when she's a senior, because I know they're
Speaker 1: all probably getting they're eighteen years old. I know it's
Speaker 1: not legal. But at the same time, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: didn't really drink in high school. I mean I didn't either,
Speaker 1: But you know, if they're going to my mom, like
Speaker 1: I had, I had a margarita with my mom and
Speaker 1: when I was a senior year when I was senior,
Speaker 1: like my graduation party had a margarita. Scandalous, scandalous, But
Speaker 1: my thing is like the vaping and stuff. But I
Speaker 1: don't know what the kids are going to get into
Speaker 1: in ten years. I don't know what's going to be
Speaker 1: worse now. But right now, drugs are really big issue
Speaker 1: in middle school, which I'm like, middle school, I'm like, what,
Speaker 1: that's going to be really hard because I'm just like,
Speaker 1: don't touch it, don't do it. Don't you know that's
Speaker 1: not it's not good. I mean, either's drinking. But in
Speaker 1: that case, do you think you would be so drinking?
Speaker 1: You're right, it's so prevalent, it's in so many different
Speaker 1: it's all over the place, you know, with everyone. So
Speaker 1: you feel like to remove the taboo and make it
Speaker 1: not some secretive, alluring thing. I would want to say, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would. I think what I would want to say,
Speaker 1: And again, I have ten years to or fifty eleven,
Speaker 1: twelve years figure this out until she gets to that
Speaker 1: fifteen sixteen range. But I'll be like, you know, I
Speaker 1: I would ask that you don't drink um when you're
Speaker 1: at a friend's party, if people are drinking, I would
Speaker 1: ask that you call me um because I'd love to
Speaker 1: you know, no, And also if you want me to
Speaker 1: come pick you up, because you feel uncomfortable, and if
Speaker 1: you're wanting to try a glass of wine, I'll give
Speaker 1: you one sip and you're probably gonna hate the taste
Speaker 1: of it. But because I remember at six sean I
Speaker 1: didn't like I didn't like the taste of it. My
Speaker 1: mom gave it to me. But I'm not gonna I'm
Speaker 1: not gonna. I'm gonna tell her like you're not going
Speaker 1: to get in trouble. I want you to call me
Speaker 1: if the parties and they're drinking, but just know that
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know, I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like I'm gonna keep being a hypocrite. I have no idea.
Speaker 1: Let's just be honest with no clue what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: But I just don't want her to be scared of it,
Speaker 1: because you're gonna cross that bridge way before we do,
Speaker 1: so you tell us, And honestly, I just don't want.
Speaker 1: I'm just what I don't want to say is don't
Speaker 1: ever touch that. Don't But again with drugs, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: say that, don't ever touch that. So that's why I
Speaker 1: feel like I'm being a hypocrite, because I'm like, I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say, don't ever touch drugs and then they're going
Speaker 1: to be like terrified of it, which is good. But
Speaker 1: then isn't that the same thing with alcohol. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know what the answer. You
Speaker 1: didn't drink in high school really either? Right? Is it
Speaker 1: because you were, you know, an athlete and or just
Speaker 1: an interest to you or I just always want the
Speaker 1: secrets of everybody that didn't really do it too much?
Speaker 1: Both was well, it was a it was a triple threat.
Speaker 1: It was just wasn't that interested I it was because
Speaker 1: of sports. And then also my parents were kind of
Speaker 1: put the fear of God into me at the same time.
Speaker 1: But having said that, my parents also understood that I
Speaker 1: was a young kid and if the off chance I
Speaker 1: did drink, call us. We will pick you up wherever
Speaker 1: you're at. Just don't ever drive home. So it's like
Speaker 1: they said, very firmly, like you're not twenty one, don't drink.
Speaker 1: But at the side of their mouth, it's like, but
Speaker 1: call us, call us if you need us, you know
Speaker 1: what I mean. So, yeah, but why weren't you interested?
Speaker 1: You said you weren't that interested. How come it didn't
Speaker 1: hold an appeal for you? Um? I don't know. I
Speaker 1: really don't know. I don't know. I think it was
Speaker 1: just you see some people who act that way, and
Speaker 1: I just wasn't about that. I've always been more of
Speaker 1: a kind of calm, cool, collected type of person. Um.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just I don't know. I just never
Speaker 1: really did. But let us know when you figure out. Chancey. Um, seriously,
Speaker 1: we appreciate you so much. You've got some amazing books
Speaker 1: out there. Where can our listeners um find you? Um My,
Speaker 1: my website is just Chancey done dot net. Somebody's parked
Speaker 1: on calm so I have net Chancy done dot net
Speaker 1: and you know I'm on Instagram and so on and
Speaker 1: so forth. Okay, well you're the best, um, and everyone
Speaker 1: go get how to Not Hate your Husband after Kids.
Speaker 1: Amazing title, amazing book. Appreciate it so much, Chancey, Thanks Chancy,
Speaker 1: thanks for having me. Bye bye. Man. She was like,
Speaker 1: I love that she loved the podcast. I was gonna
Speaker 1: say she was actually a fan. That was awesome. She's
Speaker 1: actually a fan, you know. I love during that whole
Speaker 1: conversation how she made the point to be like, well,
Speaker 1: I didn't want to title the book like how to
Speaker 1: Love your Husband After Kids? Because that's boring. I was like, yes,
Speaker 1: very good point. You're right, no one would buy that.
Speaker 1: It's true though the title like you really have to
Speaker 1: like really grab you, you know, because I probably wouldn't
Speaker 1: have bought that either. But how not to hate your
Speaker 1: husband after kids? Perfect? Tell me everything. No, that was
Speaker 1: a lot of fun. I think there's a lot of
Speaker 1: good stuff in that book, and you know, looking forward
Speaker 1: to reading it and hopefully others do too. Yes, I agree,
Speaker 1: we should read it together. It is tough as a
Speaker 1: husband after kids. You do kind of feel in the
Speaker 1: way a lot of the time. We feel like You're
Speaker 1: like I don't feel like, um, I want to be helping,
Speaker 1: but I don't feel like I'm helping. I feel like
Speaker 1: I'm just causing problems. Question though for you, because this
Speaker 1: kind of came up during a tour the tour of
Speaker 1: this past weekend. One of the couples that came on
Speaker 1: stage was like it, are you asking for help? Though?
Speaker 1: Are you? I mean, are you asking to help or no?
Speaker 1: Am I asking to help? Or am I just trying
Speaker 1: to help? The difference? Huh, Yeah, probably a little of both,
Speaker 1: but asking is probably going smoother, especially if I'm there
Speaker 1: on a weekday morning, oh man, because they've got it down.
Speaker 1: They've got a science and dad's around. So it's like
Speaker 1: kids getting the weekend mode because dad's here, and so
Speaker 1: they're slower going around and I'm in the way in
Speaker 1: the kitchen. So I's got it. It's really that's when
Speaker 1: it's really ugly. But yes, I should ask more rather
Speaker 1: than just try because you don't know what is needed. Yes,
Speaker 1: I can concur to that. Okay, good, I think that's
Speaker 1: a I think that's a solid note that I also
Speaker 1: learned because it's one guy that came on stage. He
Speaker 1: you know, he would go to work with then he'd
Speaker 1: come home and cut the grass. Now in his mind
Speaker 1: he's thinking, well, I'm cutting the grass, so I'm helping
Speaker 1: her out by cutting the grass. But maybe that's not
Speaker 1: what she really needs in that moment. Maybe she needs
Speaker 1: help because she's been home all day with the kids
Speaker 1: or needs a second to p by herself. So instead
Speaker 1: of going straight out to the grass, maybe he could
Speaker 1: come in and say, hey, how can I help you.
Speaker 1: I know you've had the kids all day. I want
Speaker 1: to go cut the grass, but do you need a
Speaker 1: few minutes or can I help you do this. I
Speaker 1: don't know. I think that just goes a long way.
Speaker 1: We've gotten better at that. We didn't this morning, but no,
Speaker 1: we didn't. But everyone, I just got out in my
Speaker 1: smart food white Cheddar popcorn and I'm ready to hear this.
Speaker 1: Tell me more. Yeah, Easton's rubbing his hands. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: we didn't handle it well this morning. I don't know
Speaker 1: if we we know don't. I could have said things differently,
Speaker 1: but I did not. I did not raise my voice
Speaker 1: and get on my high horse. I tried to do
Speaker 1: the safe talk process. Men defensive, we typically accelerate things,
Speaker 1: can accelerate things because of our defensiveness or temperas or whatever.
Speaker 1: And so yes, I could have handled myself in a
Speaker 1: calmer manner, and I'm still trying. Mm hmm. I also
Speaker 1: felt like you were being passive. So here's the deal.
Speaker 1: So I already answered a question. Can I see? Yes? Okay,
Speaker 1: So let me just lay out the scene for you
Speaker 1: and we can get perspective. And it's fine either way.
Speaker 1: So last night when we were going to bed, um,
Speaker 1: we're kind of planning out the day and jas has
Speaker 1: um my gym at nine in the morning, and Jolie
Speaker 1: usually goes to school around between eight and thirty. I
Speaker 1: dropped off at eight. He's usually around eight thirty, and
Speaker 1: so I was like, okay, well, um, you know, I'll
Speaker 1: just get the kids or I'll take Jeweler to school
Speaker 1: in the morning and then I'll go to my gym
Speaker 1: with with Jason. And that was just kind of like okay,
Speaker 1: not a real big discussion, but just I did say that.
Speaker 1: So in the morning, Um, when I got up, I
Speaker 1: was just like Jolie. I was like, hey, Jolie, who
Speaker 1: do you or no, I said, I didn't say, I
Speaker 1: didn't ask her. I was like, hey, Daddy's gonna take
Speaker 1: you to school. Mommy's going to pick you up. And
Speaker 1: then then he says, actually, Jolie, mommy is gonna take
Speaker 1: you to school and Dady's gonna pick you up. And
Speaker 1: but in the because um, that's what mommy said last night,
Speaker 1: And then I said, do you mind taking her? And
Speaker 1: then I can just take Jace to um to my gym,
Speaker 1: and he was like And how I received it was
Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, that's fine, but like his response
Speaker 1: kind of made it seem like it wasn't fine. So
Speaker 1: I already know how to astricting that because there's something
Speaker 1: that I know I could have done better. Okay, let
Speaker 1: me ask you that. Let me just continue within story that.
Speaker 1: So I just felt like this really weird energy. So
Speaker 1: as I'm getting you know, Jace his blueberries, I say
Speaker 1: to him because I'm uncomfortable. In my head, I make
Speaker 1: up that he's annoyed that I asked him to take Joel.
Speaker 1: But in my head, I'm like, well, last week we
Speaker 1: split duties. You took Jolie and I took or I
Speaker 1: took Julia school. You took Jace to my gym and
Speaker 1: I And in my head I'm like, well, he doesn't
Speaker 1: have anything going on this morning, so like we'll do
Speaker 1: the same thing we did last week. So like, go,
Speaker 1: team go. So I say, in a very nice place,
Speaker 1: I say, I mean, it's it's good right that you
Speaker 1: know you're you're taking Jolia to school and I'm taking Jason.
Speaker 1: I mean, because you know you don't have anything else
Speaker 1: going on today. So I just figured, you know, teamwork. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And then I didn't get the response like ya, team
Speaker 1: work back, So I was like, did I do something
Speaker 1: wrong to upset you? And he's like then he got
Speaker 1: defensive and angry about well, yeah, like, you know, why
Speaker 1: not Originally in the moment is sometimes like you were
Speaker 1: passive and I was like, wait, how was I passive?
Speaker 1: He's like you were passive when he made the comment
Speaker 1: about I didn't have anything to do, and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh no. I was like, I'm sorry you took it
Speaker 1: that way, and I kept saying I'm sorry you took
Speaker 1: it that way. I just was uncomfortable, and that's on me.
Speaker 1: I should have said, but I did end up saying like,
Speaker 1: did I you know, did I do something wrong to
Speaker 1: upset you? And he got really upset and he still
Speaker 1: kept calling me passive, and in my mind, I'm like,
Speaker 1: there is a difference between passive and that was just
Speaker 1: I was just And then I did the whole safe
Speaker 1: talk thing that our therapist tells us to do. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry you felt like I was being passive.
Speaker 1: The story I made up in my head was that
Speaker 1: you didn't want to take Jolie, so my uncomfortable et
Speaker 1: nous made me want to be like, well, I mean
Speaker 1: you're not doing anything, so it's all good, right, like teamwork.
Speaker 1: And then when you said no, then I asked you,
Speaker 1: is everything okay? And then clearly it wasn't okay because
Speaker 1: you responded with like being angry. And then it got
Speaker 1: even worse because he kept going and I'm like, Michael,
Speaker 1: I like again, I'm not saying I wasn't trying to.
Speaker 1: I'm just blah blah blah blah blah. Well you said
Speaker 1: that you were going to take her in the morning.
Speaker 1: I'm like again, I'm so sorry. And he just kept going.
Speaker 1: And this is where sometimes I just want to like
Speaker 1: like wring your neck. But then I was like, you
Speaker 1: know what, never mind, I'll take to It's fine, I
Speaker 1: have time. And then he picks up Joeli and he goes, no, Jolie,
Speaker 1: no Jolie, mommy can't take you because she can't do
Speaker 1: uh what would you say? It was kind of crappy.
Speaker 1: I'll let you say that one. No Jolie, mommy can't
Speaker 1: take you because because Daddy wants you. And oh my god,
Speaker 1: it's not what you said. You said, no Jolie because
Speaker 1: mommy can't like do you know two things at one
Speaker 1: or something like that, like mommy can't handle taking both
Speaker 1: of you. And it was a total job, and it
Speaker 1: was there was a job, and that was wrong with me.
Speaker 1: I was really frustrated. Um, and it just yes, I
Speaker 1: could have had better control on my part for me, like,
Speaker 1: I understand, I hear you when you say the story
Speaker 1: I made of my head, and I can understand your
Speaker 1: logic behind it. It's just in that moment as soon
Speaker 1: as you after I had already agreed like yeah, I'll
Speaker 1: take Jolie, like it's not a big deal, and then
Speaker 1: you had to make another comment, you know, five ten
Speaker 1: minutes later, about well it's okay that you take your
Speaker 1: right because you don't have anything going on. It just
Speaker 1: felt passive, like you're just trying to like justify me
Speaker 1: taking her when I had already said yeah, I'll take her.
Speaker 1: And then it was just like why is she taking
Speaker 1: a job? It felt like a job because I was like,
Speaker 1: why else would she be clarifying this, Why else would
Speaker 1: you feel the need to say something other than to
Speaker 1: be passive. Well, I get I'm sorry you took it
Speaker 1: that way. I really just was uncomfortable. What was the
Speaker 1: you felt insulted by you've got nothing going on today?
Speaker 1: I felt that there's no it's more of just like,
Speaker 1: well that's how you got angry. We're like, yeah, what
Speaker 1: if I did want to do something. The more I
Speaker 1: work up it was. It was more about the fact
Speaker 1: that that felt so passive because I already agreed, like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll take her. And then it's like to make a
Speaker 1: comment that felt passive, especially when you say something like, well,
Speaker 1: it's not like you have got anything going on this morning.
Speaker 1: But that's how I receive it when you talk about
Speaker 1: nothing going on. Yes, it was what you just asked, Mark, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I get that. I think that, like and I
Speaker 1: think I'm guilty of this too, sometimes where my wife
Speaker 1: would say something like that that is totally innocuous, but
Speaker 1: I take it as a slight and also I take
Speaker 1: it as in my mind, if I have nothing going
Speaker 1: on that day, I'm scheduling things in my head. Okay
Speaker 1: today I can do this, I do this, I can
Speaker 1: do this, so that when my wife says, you've got
Speaker 1: nothing going on today, I'm like, is my stuff not important?
Speaker 1: She doesn't know any of that stuff that's in my head,
Speaker 1: you know, So like I do, I get my dander
Speaker 1: up to I get that. I see where that's coming from. Right,
Speaker 1: And I'm not saying either of you is a fault
Speaker 1: in any way. I totally just I could I would
Speaker 1: have also taken that the same way, even though Jane,
Speaker 1: I know you didn't mean anything by that. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: truly didn't, because I'm like, I know when I'm being passive,
Speaker 1: but I'm like, I can't I can keep saying I'm
Speaker 1: sorry that you felt like I was being passive. I
Speaker 1: just felt uncomfortable. And then I was just like trying
Speaker 1: to be like, we're teamwork, we got this together. And
Speaker 1: then when I still didn't feel that same excitement, I
Speaker 1: was just like, what did I do wrong? And then
Speaker 1: when I asked you what I did wrong? It was
Speaker 1: just like a war. And then I was like, wait,
Speaker 1: why couldn't we communicate from a better place? And I
Speaker 1: continue to communicate from a good place, but you were
Speaker 1: So that's what's frustrating from me because I'm like, why
Speaker 1: why does it have to go? Because I feel like
Speaker 1: lately it's been kind of like you're not communicating from
Speaker 1: a good place when we get to that part and
Speaker 1: I have to be the one to control my anger,
Speaker 1: but yet you've been able to have your anger the
Speaker 1: past few times, and it's frustrating. I hear you. Mark
Speaker 1: is like laughing right now. That was a very very pregnant. Pause. Um, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I don't really have an explanation for it.
Speaker 1: It's I mean, people, you know, you go in waves
Speaker 1: emotionally about things. Sometimes you you know things better than others.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I just it's just practice. I gotta get
Speaker 1: better consistently, you know, talking from a better place. Uh
Speaker 1: huh what. I just it's just frustrating because we've you know,
Speaker 1: went to that couple's intensive and every instant since then
Speaker 1: that has you've had an a chance to you haven't
Speaker 1: when we've gotten into that heated argument, like you've gotten
Speaker 1: super different. So it's just it's just it's honestly, like
Speaker 1: just being super honest. It's starting to like really frustrate
Speaker 1: me because it's like in my mind, I'm just like, well,
Speaker 1: this is so unfair. I you know, I'm like keeping
Speaker 1: my you know, doing what they're telling me to do,
Speaker 1: and then I keep wanting you to meet me halfway
Speaker 1: and do the same thing back. I was frustrated too,
Speaker 1: you know, and so I just it's just been the
Speaker 1: past few times that we've gotten to arguments, you haven't
Speaker 1: met me there, and then that's just I'm getting frustrated
Speaker 1: for sure. Do you any methods Mike for like for
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. Because I've found myself I've had
Speaker 1: to really focus because I will lose my temper with
Speaker 1: the kids, and I really really really wanted to stop
Speaker 1: doing that, even though one of the kids really seems
Speaker 1: to um have that be her goal sometimes is for
Speaker 1: me to lose my temper. So I really really try.
Speaker 1: And one thing I did is I put a note
Speaker 1: in my and I'm not recommending this, everybody is different,
Speaker 1: but I put a note in my phone and said
Speaker 1: November six, because I lost it on November six, and
Speaker 1: and so now whenever I feel it's starting to rage
Speaker 1: up inside of me, I think November six, I gotta
Speaker 1: keep that as the date, you know. I I don't
Speaker 1: want to start that time or over again. I've made
Speaker 1: it this far. And then I just breathe, and I
Speaker 1: just try not to give a crap, which is not
Speaker 1: easy to do when you're feeling disrespected, when you feel
Speaker 1: like a terrible parent, when you feel like your kids
Speaker 1: are just out of control. It's really hard to keep that.
Speaker 1: But I really try to focus on November six, which
Speaker 1: by the way, is now February. Because I had to
Speaker 1: restart the timer, I love that though. I think that's
Speaker 1: such a and I try to keep my manter in
Speaker 1: my head is d GAFF. That's my mantra in my head.
Speaker 1: I keep saying d dcaf dcaf DCAFF, which stands for
Speaker 1: it don't give an F. And I'd really try to
Speaker 1: focus on that. That's good for me. It's similar in
Speaker 1: the sense of just I have to get out of
Speaker 1: the conversation on the earlier end done the later. So
Speaker 1: I think, like today, you know. Yeah, her initially asking
Speaker 1: me kind of caught me off guard because kind of
Speaker 1: like you Mark, I'm in my head, I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: I'm I'm getting up early. I'm going to get the
Speaker 1: kids in the morning, you know, I told you, and
Speaker 1: I'll to get Jace, okay. But she said she's taking
Speaker 1: them to school in my gym. So in my head,
Speaker 1: it's like, all right, once a thirty hits like, I'm good,
Speaker 1: I can you know my work out, I'm gonna start laundry.
Speaker 1: We're just on the road for four days, like I
Speaker 1: started in my head, just planning things I'm probably gonna
Speaker 1: do at this time. And then so yeah, my heasit
Speaker 1: tation when she first asked me, it's just like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: sure it's something you said, but yeah, no problem. And
Speaker 1: then that when she said the thing around you know,
Speaker 1: it's not like you had anything else going on, and
Speaker 1: then the third thing of it does it doesn't matter?
Speaker 1: And then the third thing of like, what's wrong? Are
Speaker 1: you mad at me? It's like I didn't say anything
Speaker 1: at those previous moments, even though maybe the very from
Speaker 1: the very first time she asked me, I had like
Speaker 1: a small inkling inclination of a feeling. I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: I felt that, okay, I don't need to say anything
Speaker 1: about this right now. Let me just like sit on
Speaker 1: this and swall. I'm good. It's just for those reasons.
Speaker 1: And then when the next thing came up that felt passive,
Speaker 1: I had some more and I reacted a little bit,
Speaker 1: but I didn't really react react yet. And then finally
Speaker 1: it's like she doesn't let it go, then has to say, well,
Speaker 1: what's wrong with you? Like did I do something? And
Speaker 1: then I'm like, I'm trying to not react to any
Speaker 1: of this and come back to you. In my head,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'll come back to you later on. But
Speaker 1: then I just she always it seemed like she just
Speaker 1: had something else to like pull that to be like,
Speaker 1: tell me what's going on? And I wasn't ready yet.
Speaker 1: But I also wasn't ready to say, look, i'm having
Speaker 1: these feelings. I'd really like to come to you later.
Speaker 1: I was just like receiving them and letting them be
Speaker 1: at that moment, and then I just kinda once another
Speaker 1: thing was said or put or tugged at, I was
Speaker 1: just like, then I got defensive. That's interesting. I think
Speaker 1: that's interesting for anybody in a relationship. If you're getting
Speaker 1: that energy from your partner, what's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1: Is it to pursue it and say what's wrong witht's
Speaker 1: talk this out? Or is it to wait it out
Speaker 1: because it's probably stupid and it'll go away in an hour.
Speaker 1: And I'm not sure what the right answer is there,
Speaker 1: because even Gene will get on me because she'll be like, Mike,
Speaker 1: just stop because I'll keep going times And so that's
Speaker 1: how I felt beforehand. But then just tell me to stop, right,
Speaker 1: But that's all I'm saying, and I'm still trying to
Speaker 1: figure it out. It's not even it's not during it's
Speaker 1: like when you're when you're asking what's wrong or whatever
Speaker 1: I don't want to be like Janna just stop and
Speaker 1: you're like, wait, I'm just asking you questions like what,
Speaker 1: but you don't have the capacity to say, like, I
Speaker 1: don't have I have a feeling. I just let me
Speaker 1: work through it. I'm getting there. It's just hard when
Speaker 1: it's like and I think market's it depends on the
Speaker 1: relationship really. I think you know, some people were at
Speaker 1: the time you're being crap, you know, like it's just
Speaker 1: the sensitivity that day, maybe right, because there have been
Speaker 1: times that you said something I think you've read my
Speaker 1: energy and you haven't done anything and I've come to
Speaker 1: you or was like his energy says and then I
Speaker 1: walked away because I'm like I didn't care, but I
Speaker 1: felt like I hurt him and somehow, So that's why
Speaker 1: I kept kind of going like it would we cool,
Speaker 1: like teamwork were good, everything all right, like, and so
Speaker 1: because I didn't want to feel like that I like
Speaker 1: upset him or hurt him or you know, or that
Speaker 1: he was mad at me because I asked him to
Speaker 1: take Joli instead. Right, interesting, So it's just one of
Speaker 1: those things I think, at least for our relationship to
Speaker 1: keep in mind where it's you know, you start to
Speaker 1: learn your partner enough to kind of you feel their
Speaker 1: their energy. If you start to pull on that string
Speaker 1: too much, it you'll cause a bigger issue than there
Speaker 1: actually is. I mean, I think next time, you know. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the most ideal thing I could have done is, hey,
Speaker 1: I know you. I know I said last night that
Speaker 1: I would take Jolie, but do you mind taking And
Speaker 1: you know I said that, but not in that long form.
Speaker 1: I said it like, hey, do you mind taking Jolie?
Speaker 1: But I think if I acknowledge, like, hey, I said this,
Speaker 1: but do you mind, like did you have anything else planned?
Speaker 1: Like to be conscious of what he said? And so
Speaker 1: if in a perfect world I could have said that,
Speaker 1: but I still don't think it needed the like I
Speaker 1: didn't deserve the like no, And in the perfect world,
Speaker 1: I could have said, hey, uh, I'm having these feelings
Speaker 1: come up after you ask me to take Jolie. You
Speaker 1: know it's not really anything, which also in this moment though,
Speaker 1: I'll be fearful of because I feel like that would
Speaker 1: validate your fear of you bothering me with asking me
Speaker 1: to take Jolie. Would you know? I never care, That's
Speaker 1: the thing. I never care we split those duties. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I never care if I have both kids. I never
Speaker 1: care if I have one kid. I never have Like,
Speaker 1: I never complained about that. I think you can even
Speaker 1: back me up on that. I never complain about having
Speaker 1: the kids won both whatever, I just do it. So
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it would have been hard in
Speaker 1: this moment, in this morning to navigate it a little
Speaker 1: bit better. But it's a learning thing and it's one
Speaker 1: of those things. It's like, all right, this happened. Ultimately,
Speaker 1: I am sorry for escalating it more than it had
Speaker 1: to be for sure, but uh, I mean that's part
Speaker 1: of our work and my work. M hm boom boom,
Speaker 1: wind down. Well this is this is this. I think
Speaker 1: this is good. I think that I need a minute
Speaker 1: might be something in the future, although I'm not sure.
Speaker 1: Sometimes you say I need a minute, that just creates
Speaker 1: more questions. But um, but that might be something to try.
Speaker 1: I think I might try it myself. I do that
Speaker 1: I need a minute. I know that I'm a I'm
Speaker 1: a very cool, calm collected guy, but I can lose
Speaker 1: my temp uh there. You know, there's there's there's times where,
Speaker 1: uh my wife will asked me to do you know,
Speaker 1: I was thinking about the like, if you had nothing
Speaker 1: going on today, uh something my wife will do sometimes
Speaker 1: that She'll be like, hey, could you would you mind
Speaker 1: taking out the garbage? And I said yes, and then
Speaker 1: she goes so that our house doesn't just fill up
Speaker 1: with garbage and become a complete garbage And then I
Speaker 1: I interpret that is you're a You're a filthy animal person.
Speaker 1: It doesn't know how to do anything unless I tell
Speaker 1: you you. But she was just I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: she just says that stuff and I try not to react,
Speaker 1: but sometimes I have to go. I've been awake for
Speaker 1: many hours, I'm very tired. I might not react to
Speaker 1: the way a normal human should. So I'm going to
Speaker 1: take a minute on this and take out the garbage
Speaker 1: and everything will be fine. And uh and yeah, everything,
Speaker 1: everything's good. My wife is very happy at home. Well
Speaker 1: you can just tell it next time, Alison. You're really
Speaker 1: ruining my plans of creating this place as a dump
Speaker 1: and now this is messing it all up. So thanks.
Speaker 1: I have design plans for this house too. It gets
Speaker 1: shot down all the time, trash everywhere. Sorry, that's an
Speaker 1: investment that garbage can tip of the day. Take a minute, guys.
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'm going to be on the
Speaker 1: next episode, but either way, Mike has a very special guest.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna hopefully be in it, but I would be filming.
Speaker 1: So it'll be a dad day. Wow, because we had
Speaker 1: mom January and then to be you know, we have
Speaker 1: a dad day in March. You get a day. It
Speaker 1: sounds about right. But hopefully I'll be able to like
Speaker 1: say something. I think we're taking our gear with us,
Speaker 1: so maybe we can just do a little pre interview.
Speaker 1: You can with me if you want, if you know,
Speaker 1: it's just like when we get nine months, you know,
Speaker 1: to do their thing and Dad's if we get sick,
Speaker 1: we get like two hours. I don't want to talk
Speaker 1: about it, Okay, I don't want to talk about it,
Speaker 1: all right. I love you guys, See you later.