1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom Never told 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: You From housetop works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to 4 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: the podcast. This is Molly and I'm Kristin. Kristen. The 5 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Bachelorette is about to start the television show. The most 6 00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: recent bachelor found himself a lady. Thank goodness. Now they're 7 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:33,240 Speaker 1: running off into the sunset love as I mean, there's 8 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 1: no other option on reality shows. You always find internal 9 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: love must And so I mentioned the Bachelorette casually to 10 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: you in an email, and you are an etymology guru. Like, 11 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 1: if I may give you a compliment right now, Kristen, 12 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: it's that you're really good at etymology. Well, I think 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:53,400 Speaker 1: I'm more a googling things like you know, insert word etymology, Kristen, 14 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:55,440 Speaker 1: don't sell yourself short. Well, I just gotta be I 15 00:00:55,440 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: gotta be honest with my you know, with our listeners. Molling, Well, 16 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: you you took my off hand in comment about Bachelor 17 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:07,040 Speaker 1: Bachelorette and you went all etymological. Is that the wordmogical? Yeah, 18 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 1: you went all that on it. Tell us what you 19 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:11,920 Speaker 1: found out well, here, here's the thing, Molly, because I 20 00:01:11,920 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: I've I've thought about the term bachelor before because I 21 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 1: don't feel like bachelorette it's necessarily equivalent to a bachelor 22 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: because I don't know about you, but when I think 23 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:31,279 Speaker 1: of a bachelor, it implies something kind of sexy and mysterious, 24 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 1: like you don't know whether or not he you know, 25 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: a bachelor, confirmed bachelor is cool, just living on his 26 00:01:36,720 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 1: own and his sweet bachelor paths always got like a 27 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:43,000 Speaker 1: cool wet bar. Yeah, bringing some ladies home he may 28 00:01:43,080 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 1: or may not call them, I don't know, or is 29 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,720 Speaker 1: a bachelorette just sounds like well, first of all, it 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: sounds like someone who is part of an annoying bridal 31 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: party because he's already getting married. She's not single, she's 32 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: engaged exactly. And there's something kind of diminutive about out 33 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: the the bachelorette, you know, and we never think of 34 00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: like you would never refer to Jennifer Aniston stay as 35 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: a bachelorette, whereas George Clooney, on the other hand, is 36 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 1: definitely a bachelor. Right, So so yeah, you you basically 37 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: just planted a seed in my head. Well you water 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,320 Speaker 1: the seed. I should say that was already in my head. 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,359 Speaker 1: You're the gardener of my mind, Molly. Um See, I 40 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: wanted to do a little bit of digging to find 41 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: out up the seed, well, the garden metaphors falling apart, 42 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 1: Christ let's back up. So I wanted to find out 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 1: the meaning behind bachelor and where we got this, and 44 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: whether or not there really is a female equivalent to bachelor. Okay, 45 00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: So if i'm ay, Molly, share with you a little 46 00:02:48,040 --> 00:02:50,560 Speaker 1: a little history of the term bachelor. And this comes 47 00:02:50,600 --> 00:02:55,359 Speaker 1: from the online Etymological Dictionary, because unfortunately I don't have 48 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:59,200 Speaker 1: an Oxford English dictionary. And uh, you know, Molly, if 49 00:02:59,200 --> 00:03:01,360 Speaker 1: you ever want to get me a doesn't I'm saying 50 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,919 Speaker 1: it now. It's on the podcast. I really think she's 51 00:03:03,919 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: saying it now. So someone higher up in this company 52 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: will hear this. Thank her a dictionary, Yeah, I want 53 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 1: an o E ed Okay. So bachelor. The term comes 54 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:17,240 Speaker 1: around in hundreds and it means a youthful night or 55 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: a novice in arms, and it's a French term and 56 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 1: it's usually referred to as a night bachelor. It's a 57 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: young squire in training for knighthood. Um. And then we 58 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,080 Speaker 1: have it evolved in the fourteenth century from night in 59 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 1: training to junior member of a guild or university too, 60 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,920 Speaker 1: then in the late fourteenth century to an unmarried man. 61 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: And this transition to the meaning of unmarried man parallels 62 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:45,040 Speaker 1: sort of a shift in the institution of marriage when 63 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church in Europe really started to formalize and 64 00:03:49,840 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: institutionalize the rules governing marriage and make it more of 65 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:57,920 Speaker 1: a formal process, you know, dictating who can get married, 66 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: how it happens, whether or not you can divorced, have 67 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: a marriage in nold, etcetera. All right, so now bachelorette bachelor, 68 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: You would think that it would be very related to 69 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: the word, but it's not. It was from young girl 70 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: basically in French. Yes, um, they had bacallette and that 71 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: evolved into bachelor girl, in which I would assume had 72 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: a similar meaning it's bachelor. However, still we were on 73 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,760 Speaker 1: uneven footing here with bachelor versus bachelor girl. Bachelor girl 74 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: sounds like, you know, like a seventeen year old and 75 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:37,599 Speaker 1: it and it really meant student. It goes back to 76 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: that definition of bachelor that had to do with the 77 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 1: junior member of a university. It was you know, it 78 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:45,160 Speaker 1: was a girl in high school essentially, right, yeah, co ed. Um. 79 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: And then it's not until nineteen thirty five that we 80 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: have the evolution of bachelorette in the sense that we 81 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,120 Speaker 1: think of it today. And not surprisingly, that comes after 82 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,279 Speaker 1: the arrival of the term bachelor party. In so the 83 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: history of bachelorette is pretty short, pretty short, and not equivalent. Yeah, 84 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: and so that's one of the reasons why I wanted 85 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,600 Speaker 1: to do a little more digging to find out, well, 86 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: you know, we haven't been you know, women bachelorette does 87 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 1: not equal female bachelor by any stretch of the imagination. 88 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: I don't think. Um, however, my I think the term 89 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 1: that probably all of our listeners are thinking of right 90 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: now to term a single woman is spinster. Spinster, spinster. Yes, 91 00:05:30,560 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 1: it's a scary term because of all the loaded connotation 92 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 1: that it carries. So Kristen, being the etymological hard word 93 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 1: to say genius that she is, found us the origin 94 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: of the word spinster. And I actually ran across this 95 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 1: while reading Marriage a History by Stephanie Koontz, which is fascinating, 96 00:05:51,240 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: fascinating read um, and she points out that spinster used 97 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 1: to be a term of honor for a men who 98 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: spun yarn. And it's just back in the sixteen hundreds. 99 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: But then in the eighteenth century we have a big 100 00:06:07,960 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: shift in marriage from being a union of two people 101 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 1: that were more it's more of a brokered arrangement. It's 102 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 1: a financial deal. Yeah, um, father, pick someone up for 103 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: you exactly, married exactly. Because a lot of the wealth 104 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,720 Speaker 1: is property based, you need to consolidate your resources. Hence 105 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: you marry two people off and joined them together and 106 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: then you can reap the benefits. But in the eighteenth 107 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,880 Speaker 1: century there's a big shift toward industrialization away from landed property, 108 00:06:38,120 --> 00:06:42,800 Speaker 1: and with that comes a shift towards marriage for love. 109 00:06:42,839 --> 00:06:45,360 Speaker 1: And we've talked about this before in the podcast on 110 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 1: whether or not your parents should pick your marriage and 111 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: arrange marriages and things like that. So along with this, 112 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: Cause points out that there's a new sentimentalization of wives 113 00:06:55,839 --> 00:07:02,279 Speaker 1: and mothers because of this ideal eyes. Perception of marriage 114 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: is something very treasured, it's very sweet, you know, it's 115 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: it's destiny between two star cross lovers. You get to 116 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:11,680 Speaker 1: add all this romance into it that you might not 117 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: have been able to add when it was just a 118 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:17,360 Speaker 1: deal between you and the guy from the next county. 119 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: But it's it's very interesting to me that the change 120 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: that negative conotation of spencer happened so soon after the 121 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 1: marriage by fascination, right because from from spinster as an 122 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,679 Speaker 1: honorable term for you know, hard working woman spinning yarn 123 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: becomes spinster. No one wants to pick so lonely, you 124 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: just have you in your ball of yarn to keep 125 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: you warm. Right, So it's kind of like the single 126 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 1: woman moves from being just this burdensome piece of property 127 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: that a family can't utilize to um to improve their 128 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: state or their wealth or whatever, to uh, just being 129 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: kind of pitiful because it's marriage because become something more 130 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: based on individual choice, and no one wants to choose 131 00:08:06,880 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: if you will this this woman, so she just becomes 132 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 1: the sad little spinster. Yeah. It just as easily, spinster 133 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: could have been a word that implied that you didn't 134 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 1: have any property or father you know, or family behind 135 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 1: you to make this match. It could have easily just 136 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: been a term of class. And now because marriage became 137 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: so idealized, it became this this unlovable, unwanted woman. Yeah. 138 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: And if you and if you don't believe us, they'll 139 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 1: take our word for Take Bridget Hills, who wrote a 140 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: book all about this called Women Alone Spinster's in England 141 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: from sixteen sixty to eighteen fifty, which I'm sure so 142 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 1: many of you out there have read. Um, it's on 143 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: everyone's nightstand. But she says in the past, women who 144 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: didn't marry were regarded at best as failed women to 145 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: be pitied or derided, and it worst ruined women whose 146 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: presence contaminated society. Because in the eighteen hundreds, they're really 147 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: especially in England and in the United States some degree 148 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 1: there were there was a growing group of unmarried women 149 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 1: because at this point, really for the first time, women 150 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,440 Speaker 1: didn't have to get married to be secure. They had 151 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,280 Speaker 1: more of a choice in things because they had opportunities 152 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: to earn their own income. And with this growing group 153 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 1: of unwed women in the nineteenth century, it became kind 154 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 1: of this social phenomenon, you know, like, what do we 155 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: do with all these unmarried women? And at the same time, 156 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: if you've got this growing idealization of marriage, it has 157 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: so much pressure. Now you don't want to you don't 158 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: want to ruin your chance at it. You've got to 159 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: find this perfect guy who's gonna fit all your needs. 160 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: So I think we have also these women who are 161 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 1: saying single by choice just because how can you live 162 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: up to these romantic ideals that have been infused into marriage. 163 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: So while socially there's a negative connotation in the past 164 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 1: with single women, at the same time, Molly, women today 165 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 1: have a lot to thank for these women who chose 166 00:09:56,559 --> 00:09:59,040 Speaker 1: to be single, because they did a lot to open 167 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:04,120 Speaker 1: the doors for equalizing women's education, opening up universities to women, 168 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: um opening up career opportunities to women, the early suffrage movement, etcetera. 169 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 1: A lot of it has to do with the actions 170 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: of unmarried women because their responsibilities weren't tied up in 171 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,680 Speaker 1: home and child rearing. Well, not that it was all 172 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 1: making accomplishments and drinking margarita's, because the women essentially might 173 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: have been considered the indentured servant of the family if 174 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,120 Speaker 1: they didn't leave and go create their own you know, 175 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:32,319 Speaker 1: they're these tales of the women who are living, you know, 176 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 1: as sort of the unpaid domestic servants. And when you 177 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: think about you know, aging parents, a parent who might 178 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 1: get sick, it was automatically assumed that the woman who 179 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 1: didn't have the family would move back home and take 180 00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: care of them. So she assumes this caretaker role. And 181 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:49,600 Speaker 1: in some you know, like films, it's portrayed as being 182 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:51,720 Speaker 1: a choice that they're happy to make, they're happy to 183 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,000 Speaker 1: be there for for their family, And in some films 184 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,719 Speaker 1: it's more like, oh, this is such a burden. I 185 00:10:56,760 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 1: should have gotten married so I could have just flown 186 00:10:58,640 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: in on the weekends and not dealt with all this. 187 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,160 Speaker 1: And I think that one, UM, one thing that's good 188 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: to point out that might be helpful for understanding sort 189 00:11:07,679 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: of the peculiar role of um of single women married 190 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:16,200 Speaker 1: versus single women in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries are 191 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: these things called coverture laws, which for just laws by 192 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: which women's legal rights were subsumed by her husband once 193 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,440 Speaker 1: she becomes married. Now, before that, unmarried women back in 194 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:32,560 Speaker 1: the day had um had more rights to own property 195 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: and make contracts in her own name. However, if she 196 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: wasn't married a lot of times um she she would 197 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: still be under the thumb of say an older brother 198 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 1: or her parents if they were still alive. So there 199 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 1: were still all these legal restrictions UM around what single 200 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: women and married women couldn't couldn't do. But legally, single 201 00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,000 Speaker 1: women did have more independence, legal independence than married women 202 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: and under these coverture laws. But what did it matter, Christan, 203 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: because they were all alone, all alone. And you kind 204 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: of alluded to this earlier. But bachelor, I mean, he's 205 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,360 Speaker 1: got the swinging bachelor pad. As he said, he brings 206 00:12:13,400 --> 00:12:16,520 Speaker 1: the ladies home and along the way. Spinster really acquired 207 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: this this tone of withered sexuality, or never used sexuality. 208 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,840 Speaker 1: It was, you know, you can't be a spinster and 209 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: have a healthy sex life. Essentially, Yeah, a lot of 210 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 1: times there are older virgins. I mean to put it 211 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,720 Speaker 1: quite bluntly, because if you think about the portrayal of 212 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 1: spinster's um in popular culture or an art or whatever, 213 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: it's oftentimes they're clothed and very modest, high necked, long skirt, 214 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:49,080 Speaker 1: you know, glasses, perhaps hair, and a tight bun. That's 215 00:12:49,160 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: the classic spinster look. And you know, some scholars have 216 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: made the case that that has become the average spinster look, 217 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:02,800 Speaker 1: almost a frightened single women into getting married because these 218 00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:05,920 Speaker 1: you know, there were came points in in our in 219 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 1: our history where we did need women to get married 220 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: and have children. You know, that is the propagation of 221 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: the species, and so it was seen as abnormal that 222 00:13:14,520 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 1: you wouldn't want to help that along, let's say, after 223 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,160 Speaker 1: a period of war when the population have been decreased. Um, 224 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: So that was sort of, you know, as as everything 225 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: kind of painted by culture as here's the ideal, and 226 00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: here's what you can be if it doesn't happen for you, 227 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,680 Speaker 1: if you are so unlovable, you cannot enter a marriage 228 00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: of love. Whoa unto you? Whoa unto you? Now see 229 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: to me? It makes sense that this idea of single 230 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: women just felt very problematic in uh eighteenth century nineteenth 231 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: century society because it kind of was a new thing 232 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 1: and there were so many huge shifts going on with 233 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: industrialization and um, a shift in how even the domestic 234 00:13:56,679 --> 00:14:00,719 Speaker 1: politics of the day. But then and we go when 235 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: we move forward a little bit into the twentieth century. Um, 236 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: there's a book called Bachelor Girls by Betsy Israel that 237 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:14,040 Speaker 1: charts sort of the social history of single women, and 238 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:18,400 Speaker 1: there seems to be a pretty well, i'd say, kind 239 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 1: of positive shift more during the Jazz Age, where there's 240 00:14:23,320 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 1: more of a modern idea of single women being okay, 241 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,600 Speaker 1: they're striking out on their own, they're going to the 242 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,480 Speaker 1: big cities, and it's a little more glamorous than it 243 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: used to be. So in the early twentieth century, we've 244 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 1: got what Israel calls the new woman, and it's sort 245 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: of an umbrella term that covers all these these new 246 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:44,320 Speaker 1: kind of single women that are being appreciated in a 247 00:14:44,360 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: new way. You know, we've got beginning strains of feminism. 248 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:51,800 Speaker 1: So this new woman is very left intellectual, you know, 249 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 1: not going to stay at home, and it kind of 250 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: evolves as that century goes on into something that can 251 00:14:56,680 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: be really glamorous, bohemian. Um that daydream that every girl 252 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: I think has at some point another of living alone 253 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: in Paris or New York City and just and living 254 00:15:06,880 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: a romantic lifestyle. Think when you say this is sort 255 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: of the only pause we see in terms of the 256 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: single female life being an achievable, attainable, desirable thing. Yeah, 257 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 1: it seems like the beginning of a of a pretty 258 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,240 Speaker 1: big shift. And um Issuel also points out that the 259 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: media really honed in on this angle of this single 260 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 1: phenomenon of for the first time, like it's okay for 261 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 1: these these women to be independent and going to college. 262 00:15:33,840 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: And she also mentions that, um, this, this is the 263 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: first generation to really reap the benefits from the what 264 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: she calls the Civil War era blessed Spencers of the 265 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: day who were kind of hammering down, um, the barrier's 266 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,960 Speaker 1: education into career and they were really taking advantage of 267 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: all this. And then from the twenties and into the 268 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,080 Speaker 1: nineteen sixties, especially in New York and large metropolitan areas 269 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:02,000 Speaker 1: like that, we have an influx of single career girls 270 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: coming into the big city to make their way. And um, 271 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: I think one of the most quintessential single girl haven's, 272 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: if you will, of the day would have been the 273 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: Barbazon Hotel. And this was one of New York's many 274 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: women's only dormitories where girls would come a lot of times, 275 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: say would be you know, from wealthier backgrounds, or they 276 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: would come from small towns having scrimpton safe to come 277 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,840 Speaker 1: to the big city and and chase their dreams down. 278 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 1: And the Barbazon was really, I mean, it was just 279 00:16:38,680 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 1: the peak of glamour for young girls coming coming in. 280 00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 1: And by young I mean you know, like yeah, a 281 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,560 Speaker 1: lot of girls coming to find a career, sometimes in 282 00:16:49,680 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: modeling because one of the things you were grated on 283 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 1: to get into the Barbazon where your looks in your dress. Yeah, 284 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,520 Speaker 1: and no wonder because, um, some of Barbazon's alumni include 285 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: Joan Crawford, Grace Kelly, Sylvia Plath, Alan McGraw. Actually the 286 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:07,280 Speaker 1: bell Jar is based loosely on her life at the Barbazon. 287 00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:10,480 Speaker 1: So I think that takes us up through the sixties, 288 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: this glamor of the Barbazon, a young woman setting out 289 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: on our own. But I think that that's the last time, 290 00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: as I said, that we see the female single life 291 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: really celebrated like that, because I mean what they say 292 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:23,320 Speaker 1: in this article and Banty Fair that we're taking this 293 00:17:23,440 --> 00:17:25,440 Speaker 1: from is that what a lot of girls were on 294 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: the hunt for instead of a career was a husband. 295 00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: So in the back of the mind, there's always going 296 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: to be that, uh, you're gonna settle down someday. Now, 297 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: I think we do have to point out, Molly, that 298 00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:39,200 Speaker 1: in the early nineties seventies there was a brief resurgence 299 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 1: and appreciation of this joy of being a single woman. Um, 300 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: there was a paper that we found by researcher Deborah J. Mustard, 301 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,760 Speaker 1: and she really examined spinsters in film and in her 302 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:53,480 Speaker 1: in her paper. She points out the Newsreek ran a 303 00:17:53,520 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: cover story in the early seventies, um, you know, really 304 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: celebrating the rediscovered independence of single women. And kind of 305 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 1: what that brings to mind, I guess is following close 306 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: in the heels of that is the rise of you know, 307 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:09,679 Speaker 1: the career girl in the late seventies and eighties and 308 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,280 Speaker 1: the you know, the women's power suits, the big shoulders. 309 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,200 Speaker 1: You know, women are really starting to break through those 310 00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,879 Speaker 1: glass ceilings and make really large strides. But I would 311 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: argue that that kind of single celebration is a different 312 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: tone from you know, the single career girls in the twenties, thirties, forties, 313 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: because it's a lot more um, I guess, focused on 314 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: climbing the career ladder and striking it out on their own. 315 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: There's just a different tone to it. There's a different tone. 316 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,760 Speaker 1: And I also think that in you know, in this 317 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 1: paper about the films, it indicates that there could be 318 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,040 Speaker 1: a possible backlash. She talks about the movie Fatal Attraction, 319 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,960 Speaker 1: where you've got an older woman who was single, I 320 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: had the affair and then went crazy because she didn't 321 00:18:56,880 --> 00:19:00,199 Speaker 1: get the settle down happy ending. Yeah, these on well, 322 00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,439 Speaker 1: they can have everything, but a bachelor has Okay, to 323 00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: put this back in bachelor terms, they can have the 324 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:09,280 Speaker 1: high power job and this like apartment and the nice 325 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 1: clothes and plenty of dates. But unlike the bachelor who's 326 00:19:13,160 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: fine going to bed alone and you know, just serially 327 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:20,280 Speaker 1: dating the you know, single white female, at some point, 328 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: she's gonna boil your money, She's gonna boil your bunny. 329 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 1: You know, there's there's that element of danger still. I mean, 330 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: despite all those you know, career just to think about 331 00:19:29,760 --> 00:19:32,160 Speaker 1: it movie terms, like, yeah, you can have like the 332 00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: working girl Melanie Griffith head off and saved the day. 333 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,399 Speaker 1: But you know, in the same era, we've got Fatal 334 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,639 Speaker 1: Attraction and and all these movies where the woman is 335 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:44,479 Speaker 1: just like I am okay until I realized I'm alone. 336 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,440 Speaker 1: And that's I mean, that continues on. You see that 337 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:48,840 Speaker 1: in the romantic communies even today. Sure, I mean, like 338 00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 1: going back to you know, the Jennifer Anderson versus George 339 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: Clooney reference. I mean, come on, like, think about how 340 00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:56,679 Speaker 1: the tabloids, I mean, the tabloids have given her a 341 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 1: narrative of single lady who is sad. Yeah, all she 342 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:02,480 Speaker 1: wants is a baby and someone to raise it with. 343 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,960 Speaker 1: And um so, I think at this point in our conversation, 344 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,280 Speaker 1: we can we can now have a list of of 345 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: terms that are not just not equivalent, don't have the same, 346 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 1: all encompassing I guess power as bachelor because you know 347 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: we've got you know, Spencer obviously not bachelorette. No, career 348 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,479 Speaker 1: woman no, because they're still like when you wake up 349 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 1: and you're sad, right, career woman doesn't have it all necessarily. 350 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: Um So let's keep moving forward, Molly, because I think 351 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 1: one offshoot of the Spencer that we haven't talked about 352 00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,120 Speaker 1: are these philon related terms. A trio of feline really 353 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: had terms which let's not even spend too much time 354 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,359 Speaker 1: on them because I don't even know that they deserve 355 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,679 Speaker 1: that much more, the first one being the cat Lady. Now, 356 00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,040 Speaker 1: so here's the thing that really bothers me. I really 357 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: love cats. I really don't like dogs. I'm not a 358 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 1: dog person, But by virtue of having a cat versus 359 00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: owning a dog, I'm somehow painting myself as single and sad. 360 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: Don't don't you agree that's the case. Yeah, yeah, there 361 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: was a There was a blog post that we found 362 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 1: from Forbes magazine that um, you know, I was talking 363 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:15,920 Speaker 1: about like the danger of you know, older women. Why 364 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: shouldn't say older women, I guess women our age UM 365 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: owning cats because it's like, if you bring a guy 366 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 1: home in your single and in your mid twenties, mid thirties, 367 00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: it's gonna freak guy out because you're gonna look like 368 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,119 Speaker 1: a cat lady, which is just it's just silly, you know, 369 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,320 Speaker 1: it really is silly. And it was kind of funny though, 370 00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,520 Speaker 1: because they did, um, they did a survey to find 371 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: out like, look at the biggest, like the cat friendliest 372 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,480 Speaker 1: cities in the US, and then breakdown number of single 373 00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: males versus single females, and actually and then all of 374 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,040 Speaker 1: the cat friendliest cities in the US there were more 375 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: single males than females, which I say statistically debunks the 376 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 1: cat lady erie. Also we shared this on our Twitter 377 00:21:56,720 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: last week, the blog keep Boys with Cats. I mean, 378 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,959 Speaker 1: the thing is, if the guy owns a cat, it's adorable. 379 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: It shows like some nurturing side and cats are so 380 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:07,560 Speaker 1: funny and playful. But if a girl owns a cat, 381 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 1: it's sad. It's typical because we've got this term cat 382 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,440 Speaker 1: lady which again is not a good equivalent to bachelor. 383 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,199 Speaker 1: And how do we become associated with cats? While it 384 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:20,199 Speaker 1: goes back to the early days of domestication when cats 385 00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: were kept around the house because they were skillful hunters, 386 00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,560 Speaker 1: eating the rats and then got onto the flower and 387 00:22:25,560 --> 00:22:27,640 Speaker 1: the dogs would go out to hunt with the men. 388 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:31,199 Speaker 1: So cats therefore became more associated with the home and 389 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 1: with women. And now we have cat ladies, And of 390 00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:36,920 Speaker 1: course cat lady leads us to what you've all been 391 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:43,639 Speaker 1: waiting for, folks, cougar, the cougar, Mollie, I'm city. You 392 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: and I are a little too young to be cougars. 393 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,679 Speaker 1: Don't think we would be considered cougars unless we're cruise 394 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,919 Speaker 1: in high schools. I believe the source you sent me 395 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: said thirty plus thirty plus yeah plus. The cougar for 396 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 1: any of you who um are completely out of the 397 00:23:00,640 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: pop culture loop is the slang term for an older 398 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 1: woman who likes to day to the younger man de 399 00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: me Moore Ashton Kusher kind of relationships. She's usually pretty attractive, 400 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: well kept, and she wants some younger meat. To put 401 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 1: it in cougar animalistic terms, now, I would say that 402 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 1: if you listen to our podcasts. You know that we 403 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: love our Canadian fans. We know we have a lot 404 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,560 Speaker 1: of them out there. We try and get props to 405 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,479 Speaker 1: Canada whenever we can. But Canada, you are to blame 406 00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:36,120 Speaker 1: for this cougar phenomenon. Yes. According to the grammar Phobia 407 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 1: blog um, cougar is thought to have originated with the 408 00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: Vancouver Canucks hockey team in the late nineteen eighties, when 409 00:23:47,200 --> 00:23:51,600 Speaker 1: the NHL players supposedly use the term to describe groupies 410 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: female groupies who are a tad older. Now, there isn't 411 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:00,800 Speaker 1: solid evidence to support that, but some was sub tracked 412 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: the use of cougar to Western Canada in the early 413 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: nineteen nineties, when the term pretty much went the same thing, 414 00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,840 Speaker 1: and then in two thousand one when Canadians Elizabeth Vanderzog 415 00:24:13,160 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: and else Stage launched a tongue in cheek website named 416 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: cougar Date dot com. It was specifically meant for women 417 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: uh in their mid thirties looking to date, and they 418 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: say that they got the idea for cougar date when 419 00:24:29,400 --> 00:24:32,640 Speaker 1: a nephew of theirs, who was a hockey player, referred 420 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,399 Speaker 1: to the two women as cougars. Hockey players hockey players 421 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 1: who knew Molly. If you had asked me to guess 422 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 1: the origin of cougar, I would not have said Canadian 423 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: hockey players. And then in two thousand one, we've got 424 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: dating columnists for the Toronto Sun who writes the book Cougar, 425 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: A Guide for Older Women Dating Younger Men. And you know, 426 00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: christ I was trying to remember the first time I 427 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,120 Speaker 1: heard the word cougar, and I think it was probably 428 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,080 Speaker 1: probably television like shows like How I Met Your Mother 429 00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:01,440 Speaker 1: they did a big cougar episode. O um. So it's 430 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: hard to say, like exactly where on the timeline, like 431 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 1: all of these cougar things got really popular. But it's 432 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: cougars everywhere now. But it's cougars everywhere except did you 433 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:14,480 Speaker 1: see that last week a Google band cougar date dot 434 00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: Com from advertising on their site. I did see that. 435 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:21,159 Speaker 1: But backlash, Yes, there's a cougar backlash, but it's not 436 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,240 Speaker 1: because they don't like the word. It's just they think 437 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: that it's inappropriate. Because I think that it's another one 438 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: of those things where we want our spinsters to be 439 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: old women who don't have sex, and cougar date gives 440 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: that sexuality back to the women nom only sounds like 441 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,280 Speaker 1: you are applauding the jerem cougar. I'm not applauding the 442 00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:43,400 Speaker 1: top the term cougar, but I think it's a double 443 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,639 Speaker 1: standard because Google didn't ban any of the sites that 444 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: are geared towards older men, older bachelor's looking for younger women. 445 00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:53,199 Speaker 1: So I do think that's a double standard. And I 446 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:55,480 Speaker 1: do think, yeah, I do think that if there's a 447 00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,320 Speaker 1: term that gives the women back the sexuality that spinster 448 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:00,840 Speaker 1: totally takes away from them, then that can be a 449 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:04,399 Speaker 1: good thing. Okay, but let me let me give you 450 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 1: a caveat. I do not like this new term cheetah. 451 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:09,159 Speaker 1: Now'm like, I don't even know that we need to 452 00:26:09,160 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 1: spend much time on cheetah, because, first of all, it 453 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: is a concoction of a man named Spencer Morgan, who's 454 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: a writer for the New York Observer, who's obviously just 455 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,120 Speaker 1: looking to start an internet meme. And um, I don't 456 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 1: really know how to say this except that Morgan's definition 457 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:30,399 Speaker 1: of cheetah is nothing more than bull strong words. And 458 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,800 Speaker 1: I can support that, Christian because when you sent me 459 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,360 Speaker 1: this article, I thought it was a joke, Like that's 460 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:39,400 Speaker 1: how ridiculous. I think this cheetah thing is. Yes, according 461 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:43,200 Speaker 1: to Spencer Morgan, a cheetah is quote a cougar's younger 462 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,800 Speaker 1: cousin who's generally a young woman fresh out of a 463 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,919 Speaker 1: relationship on the prowl to take advantage of helpless, drunk 464 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 1: men who are out of her league. Basically, it's a 465 00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,520 Speaker 1: woman who has been dumped and she has somehow lost 466 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: her looks in the process of dating some guy, and 467 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: the only way that she can possibly have relations with 468 00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: another man who might be a little more attractive than 469 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: she is is to wait until around two am when 470 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:09,800 Speaker 1: they all have their drunk goggles on, and she's gonna 471 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: swoop and take advantage of him and then leave the 472 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: next day, essentially date raping him. I don't know. I 473 00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:18,960 Speaker 1: think that that's what he that's the assumption he makes. Yeah, 474 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 1: Morgan makes some some pretty off the wall claims about this, uh, 475 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 1: this cheetah thing, which makes me wonder where he got 476 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,639 Speaker 1: the idea for it in the first place. I have 477 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,679 Speaker 1: I have an idea on that, crystal, Okay, I mean, 478 00:27:32,840 --> 00:27:35,399 Speaker 1: think about what we've just talked about about these this 479 00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: history of demonizing as spinster. I think it's the same thing. 480 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,439 Speaker 1: I think that, um, there's some danger still in our 481 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 1: society where people don't know what to do with unmarried women, 482 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 1: and so the fact that they are out there living 483 00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,920 Speaker 1: what could be considered the bachelor lifestyle scares people. And 484 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,199 Speaker 1: so I think it's the same negative connotations applied to 485 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,800 Speaker 1: a woman who was unmarried as were applied back in 486 00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:02,000 Speaker 1: you know, a teenth century England when they were idealizing 487 00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: mothers and wives. And maybe that's why even today, even 488 00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:09,919 Speaker 1: in two thousand and ten, we don't have a good 489 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: term I would argue for an unmarried woman. Now, some 490 00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,960 Speaker 1: feminists have tried to reclaim the term spencer. So you 491 00:28:16,960 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: know what back in the day was this was a 492 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,800 Speaker 1: term of honor for women who worked hard spinning wool, 493 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: and it was just co opted by you know, the 494 00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 1: marital industrial complex, cetera. Let's reclaim it positive but I 495 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,960 Speaker 1: just don't I don't necessarily buy it. I don't think 496 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 1: that you can. You don't want that one back. Uh, 497 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,120 Speaker 1: Let's see what else, Kristen Well, and then we have 498 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: things like Gibson Girl, Barbazon Girl, working Girl, all of 499 00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:48,760 Speaker 1: these you know, kind of bachelor equivalents, but they all 500 00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,080 Speaker 1: have girl attached to them, which implies the maturity. Molly, 501 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: what are we gonna do? I think we're gonna ask 502 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,480 Speaker 1: our listeners. I think we're going to ask god listeners. 503 00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: What term should we fabulous single ladies try to reclaim 504 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: as our own? I mean, it doesn't even matter, Like, 505 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,200 Speaker 1: are we thinking too much about this? Like? Am I 506 00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:11,240 Speaker 1: just too hard pressed on having some kind of bachelor? 507 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: Because some people have also said, well, why don't we 508 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 1: just use bachelor? You don't like bachelor? You don't because 509 00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: I think it sounds masculine, because I've been fed heteronormative 510 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: ideas all my life. Help us out, listeners, what should 511 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: get and and get creative? You know, we're Molly Molly 512 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: and I are open to all sorts of ideas. Is 513 00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 1: there a good bachelor equivalent for single women? Mom? Stuff 514 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:39,520 Speaker 1: has suffolks dot com sending your ideas? Please or post 515 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,040 Speaker 1: it to our Twitter or Facebook any any way, shape 516 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: or form. Just get us your suggestions. And in the meantime, 517 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,600 Speaker 1: here a couple of listener emails, Well, Molly about a 518 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:55,400 Speaker 1: reading list here to kick things offices from Amy in Ireland. 519 00:29:56,120 --> 00:30:00,840 Speaker 1: And she is reading. She's reading a lot of George 520 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,480 Speaker 1: Orwell's reading Coming Up for Air and a Clergyman's Daughter, 521 00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:10,320 Speaker 1: all by George Orwell. She is also reading Catch twenty 522 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,280 Speaker 1: two by Joseph Heller and Catch Her in the Ride 523 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 1: by Salingers. She's got some classics up there from Classic 524 00:30:15,120 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: as a fan of crossing off the classics on you know, 525 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: during the during the summer, good time to do it. 526 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,600 Speaker 1: Feel accomplished. Yes, I'm got an email from Sarah and 527 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: this is about the bikini podcast. She you know, we 528 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: we kind of gave Sports Illustrated a hard time. She 529 00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,040 Speaker 1: writes that she works as an artist for the design 530 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: from that handles the s I swimsuit calendars. She does 531 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 1: not specifically work with that calendar, by the way, but 532 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,000 Speaker 1: she sees the raw photos that are sent to us 533 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 1: by s I. In our color proofing room. The artists 534 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: here removed moles, cellulite, stretch marks, tattoos, body hair, accentuate curves, 535 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,600 Speaker 1: even the skin tone, et cetera, to make that picture 536 00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,479 Speaker 1: perfect each look. I think the rise of bikini has 537 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 1: led to the rise of many other services and professions 538 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,960 Speaker 1: like personal trainers, stylists, tanning salons and the like, and 539 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: of course, professional photo retouch artist this might be a 540 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:01,600 Speaker 1: mixed bag of blessing that keeps people like me employed. 541 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: In the end, I'd like to mind novel listeners out 542 00:31:03,920 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 1: there that if you ever feel insecure about not looking 543 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: like a model in the photo, that even the model 544 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: doesn't look like the photo, that look is made by 545 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,160 Speaker 1: artists on computers. We all have flaws and imperfections, so 546 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 1: unless you have a professional retouching, you embrace your looks 547 00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,080 Speaker 1: from every somewhere makes you happy and enjoy your summer excellent. 548 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 1: So thanks so much for the emails, guys. Keep them 549 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,280 Speaker 1: coming at mom stuff at how stuff works dot com. 550 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 1: Follow me and Molly on Twitter and Facebook as well, 551 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: and as always, you can check out our blog during 552 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: the weeks see what we're writing about. It's the stuff 553 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 1: Mom Never Told You blog. Is that how stuff works 554 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: dot com. Want more how stuff works, check out our 555 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 1: blogs on the house stuff works dot com home page. 556 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,240 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 557 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:00,600 Speaker 1: It's right me, are you