1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,800 Speaker 2: This week bitcoin hit an all time high. You know 3 00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 2: what is at a record? 4 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:13,600 Speaker 1: No bitcoin? 5 00:00:13,680 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 2: Oh? I heard? 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. 7 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: Every time I look at croyp Go on the Bloomberg terminal, 8 00:00:17,079 --> 00:00:18,280 Speaker 2: I just see a sea of green. 9 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: I think the scientific term is a melt up, which 10 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: is to say, if there is a record that can 11 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: be broken, the prices are beating the records. 12 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: Stacey Marie Schmael oversees Bloomberg's coverage of crypto and she 13 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:34,920 Speaker 2: says Bitcoin and other crypto assets have been on a tear. 14 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:36,960 Speaker 1: We've also seen as in some things that are called 15 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,559 Speaker 1: old coins, i e. Alternatives that are not Bitcoin, with 16 00:00:40,720 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: names like Dogecoin, Solana, and even the second largest crypto Ethereum. 17 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 2: So what explains the so called melt up? Stacy Marie 18 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 2: says the twenty twenty four election, even beyond Donald Trump's win, 19 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:56,440 Speaker 2: has meant not just good things for crypto prices, but 20 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: also for the crypto industry more broadly. And it wasn't 21 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 2: by accident. Companies and trade groups spent more than one 22 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty million dollars on crypto friendly candidates the 23 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 2: cycle and Stacey Marie says that paid off. 24 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: They mostly want right. This was one of the highest 25 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: ROI bets that the digital asset industry has placed, and 26 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: they've had some very big successes. 27 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 2: It's a turning point for how much influence the crypto 28 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: industry has in Washington. 29 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,360 Speaker 1: Various folks, including Brian Armstrong, the CU of Coinbase, have 30 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:36,399 Speaker 1: made it clear that this was not their last election. Right. 31 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 1: They're going to be around for the foreseeable future, and 32 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: they intend to continue to play a significant rule in 33 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: trying to shape whatever the future holds for the industry. 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 2: I'm David Gurra, and this is the big take from 35 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: Bloomberg News today on the show. Bitcoin prices are surging, 36 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: but we've seen this before. What may be different this 37 00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: time around? And is the US presidential election ushering in 38 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: a new era in crypto Crypto prices started to climb 39 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 2: in the run up to the US presidential election, but 40 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,839 Speaker 2: they really took off when it became clear who won. 41 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,960 Speaker 2: I asked Bloomberg Stacey Marie Ishmael, what's driving these gains? 42 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: There are a few different ways aunds to that question. 43 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: I would say one there is a bit of narrative, 44 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 1: which is nothing can stop us now we have the 45 00:02:31,040 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: crypto friendliest president that has ever been in the US, 46 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: or at least president elect. We have the promise from 47 00:02:39,240 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: said president elect that he will fire crypto's biggest enemy 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 1: or who's perceived as crypto's biggest enemy. Do you know 49 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: Gary Gensler, who's the current chair of the U S 50 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: Securities and Exchange Commission. We have a number of people 51 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,639 Speaker 1: in Congress or recently elected into Congress who have been 52 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 1: perceived as much crypto friendlier than people in other positions. 53 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: You know, Bernie Moreno in Ohio who defeated Shared Brown 54 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,960 Speaker 1: is himself a blockchain and crypto entrepreneur that's like a 55 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: big get or perceived as a big get. 56 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: Stacy Marie's public perception of the market is in a 57 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: very different place from where it was four years ago 58 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 2: when Joe Biden was elected. 59 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: It was really around the time that coinbase went public, 60 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: that ftx started gaining traction that you know, non fungible 61 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: tokens remember board apes, you know, started to become popular 62 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: with various celebrities, which to be clear, was a very like, 63 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 1: very clever influence campaign that was you know, a lot 64 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 1: of bought and paid for marketing, but that so called 65 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:45,920 Speaker 1: cryptos super Bowl, when you had ads for coinbase, et cetera. 66 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: Was both like the first time that a lot of 67 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: people who had never before encountered bitcoin in the wild 68 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 1: did so, and also kind of the top of that particular. 69 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: Cycle, crypto hit record highs and then then came the fall. 70 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 1: In the months after that, you had FTX filing for bankruptcy, 71 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 1: Like just around two years ago, you had you know, 72 00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: not long after Binance being fined four billion dollars by 73 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: the Department of Justice, you had multiple people going to jail. 74 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 2: Ftx's bankruptcy happened as the Biden administration was taking a 75 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 2: more aggressive tack toward crypto, and those prosecutions exemplified a 76 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,640 Speaker 2: harder line from law enforcement. 77 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 1: So I think that the Biden administration was in some 78 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: ways reacting to this this hype, this froth, this enthusiasm, 79 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: and a lot of the criticism that they received initially 80 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: was that they had taken too long to start regulating 81 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: this market, and that's where this kind of phrase regulation 82 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 1: by enforcement started to become popular in crypto. They were like, well, 83 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: what you should have done is given us legislation that 84 00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: we can follow, but instead you're like, you all are 85 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: breaking rules and here's what's going to happen as a consequence. 86 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: But I wouldn't say that the other narrative that the 87 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,240 Speaker 1: Biden administration was overwhelmingly hostile to crypto was necessarily true either, 88 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: because you know that administration, the Biden White House was 89 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: the one that said to every single major federal agency, hey, 90 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 1: study this thing, figure it out. What's going on. We 91 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 1: want to understand this. 92 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: A big moment for crypto was in January when the 93 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:30,000 Speaker 2: SEC approved spot bitcoin ETFs regulators had rejected applications from 94 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,440 Speaker 2: asset managers for those exchange traded funds before, so this 95 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,120 Speaker 2: wasn't something that happened overnight, and Stacy Marie says that 96 00:05:37,160 --> 00:05:40,040 Speaker 2: decision laid the groundwork for what we're seeing today. 97 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: One thing I would note about the SEC approval it 98 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: was that the statement that accompanied it was the most 99 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: like grudging Here you go, I guess, but we're only 100 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:51,600 Speaker 1: giving you this because the courts told us we have 101 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: to type thing, which I think is very reflective of 102 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 1: a couple of views that Gensler and others have expressed 103 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,160 Speaker 1: over time, which is their perception is that these are 104 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 1: high risk, highly volatile assets. That should really only be 105 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: part of portfolios run by people who have either a 106 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of experience or an extremely high ability to 107 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 1: recover from everything going to zero. 108 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 2: Stacy Marie says that the SEC's decision, grudging as it was, 109 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: to allow spot bitcoin ETFs, democratized crypto even more. It 110 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 2: made bitcoin appealing to people and institutions managing more conservative portfolios. 111 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,880 Speaker 1: You're starting to see different pension funds saying, hey, maybe 112 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: it would be good if we have you know, a 113 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,719 Speaker 1: little bit of exposure to this high beta, high risk 114 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: part of the market. Yes, the risk of downturns are great, 115 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,719 Speaker 1: but so is the upside if we can play that correctly. 116 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,240 Speaker 2: And there's a belief that under President Trump, the SEC 117 00:06:51,320 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: may approve more investment products tied to other cryptocurrencies. 118 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: You are starting to see people advocating for you know, 119 00:07:00,080 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: ETFs attached to other, even less well established tokens like Solano, 120 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: which is much newer. You're starting to see people say, well, Okay, 121 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:13,840 Speaker 1: maybe I don't want to buy an ETF, but is 122 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:16,240 Speaker 1: there another way for me to get exposure? And the 123 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: answer is yes, absolutely. There are various publicly traded companies 124 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: that are say bitcoin miners. There is Coinbase, but there 125 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,559 Speaker 1: is also this supposed software services firm called MicroStrategy, which 126 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 1: really is a bitcoin hedge fund in just in terms 127 00:07:31,120 --> 00:07:33,480 Speaker 1: of the fact that it has such an enormous amounts 128 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: of bitcoin on its balance sheet and is therefore perceived 129 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 1: as another way to get exposure to this asset class. 130 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: The President elect says he wants to make crypto even 131 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: more mainstream, and one way he's proposed doing that is 132 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 2: through a regulatory overhaul. On day one, I will fire 133 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 2: Gary Gensler and appoint a new sect. A crypto friendly 134 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,320 Speaker 2: candidate is heading to the White House. What's he likely 135 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:03,080 Speaker 2: to do to support crypto when he gets there? Are 136 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 2: we on the cusp of a paradigm shift, whereas the 137 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 2: narrative getting ahead of the facts. That's next. With Bitcoin's 138 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:20,160 Speaker 2: price up more than ninety percent year to date and 139 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: crypto price is setting new records after Donald Trump's reelection, 140 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 2: I asked Bloomberg Stacy Marie Ishmael if those gains are 141 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 2: being fueled by vibes or something more concrete. 142 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: I do think that in crypto, so much of this 143 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: is tied up in like people's belief and optimism vibes. 144 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 1: It's an extremely vibes based asset class. And four years 145 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: ago there were fewer positive fundamentals than there are now, 146 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:51,760 Speaker 1: but the vibes were just as strong, if you know, 147 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 1: I don't think they were stronger, but they were at 148 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 1: least just as strong. 149 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 2: And Donald Trump's reelection is feeding those vibes, which is 150 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,319 Speaker 2: a little surprising because of what he said about crypto 151 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:04,600 Speaker 2: in the past. So the bet here is that Donald 152 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:09,239 Speaker 2: Trump is going to be supportive of digital assets, including cryptocurrency. 153 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: He's going to embrace it more. I'm old enough to 154 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,560 Speaker 2: remember when he called it a scam. Yes, how much 155 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: has his outlook on crypto evolved in just a few years. 156 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: What I would say is that Donald Trump's original view 157 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 1: of crypto was this is a scam and this is 158 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: a threat to the US dollar. But we've seen explicit 159 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: changes in at least his approach to monetizing crypto over time. 160 00:09:35,760 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: So you know, both Donald Trump and Millennia and Trump 161 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,160 Speaker 1: have issued their own non fungible tokens. Trump at least 162 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:45,959 Speaker 1: has disclosed making several millions of dollars on selling those 163 00:09:46,080 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 1: NFTs to fans and admirers. He has supported at least 164 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 1: a name a project run largely by his sons called 165 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: World Liberty Financial. Still unclear exactly what that's going to 166 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: turn out to be, but it is. You know, it's 167 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: got all of the trappings of what's called the decentralized 168 00:10:04,840 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: financial product. There's a token associated with it. They've had 169 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 1: multiple spaces on x There's a lot of people who 170 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: have some experience in digital assets who are. 171 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,439 Speaker 2: Working tweets about it, he posts about it, he truths it. 172 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: You know, it's part of Trump Inc. At this point. 173 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: And then you have the fact, as anybody in crypto 174 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: will tell you, that the crypto constituency became a really 175 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: meaningful source of donations and fundraising during the electoral campaign. 176 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 1: And so, you know, he famously appeared at the Big 177 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: Bitcoin Conference in Nashville this year. That's where he said, 178 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: you know, he wants to make the US the crypto 179 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 1: capital of the world. 180 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:44,640 Speaker 2: What has he promised to do aside from being supportive 181 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: of it. I know he's raised the spectrum of a 182 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:51,880 Speaker 2: strategic bitcoin reserve reserver stockpile. What concrete things has he 183 00:10:51,960 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 2: presented as crypto related initiatives he would support? 184 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: Gunna fire Guary Gensler going to make it easier for 185 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,360 Speaker 1: bit coin miners, and that if you don't know are 186 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:07,239 Speaker 1: you know, think of them like really really big powerful 187 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 1: computers solving problems all day long. And when you have 188 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: really big powerful computers, what do you need energy? And 189 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:15,840 Speaker 1: so a big part of his promise to like, you know, 190 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: the bitcoin mining industry is we are going to give 191 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,560 Speaker 1: you lots of cheap energy and you're not gonna have 192 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,920 Speaker 1: to worry about those pesky environmentalists saying things like why 193 00:11:25,960 --> 00:11:28,640 Speaker 1: are you polluting my water or whatever that might be, 194 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:31,640 Speaker 1: which is a very powerful message to people who in 195 00:11:31,679 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: some cases, you know, left the US because they thought 196 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: that energy prices were too high or they couldn't get 197 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 1: around certain environmental regulations. And then, as you mentioned, you 198 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: have this strategic bitcoin reserve, which right now not particularly 199 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,880 Speaker 1: well fleshed out. But the idea is that the US 200 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,119 Speaker 1: would have, much like it has you know, oil reserves 201 00:11:53,240 --> 00:11:58,199 Speaker 1: or wheat or vaccines, would have a stockpile of bitcoin 202 00:11:58,720 --> 00:12:02,400 Speaker 1: that it could decide to deploy strategically if ever it 203 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 1: were called upon to do so. So, Like, what does 204 00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 1: it mean in practice to be crypto friendly? Does that 205 00:12:09,880 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: mean come January, any existing or outstanding lawsuits filed by 206 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 1: the SEC or other agencies would go away. Does it 207 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,040 Speaker 1: mean that Congress will be much more in favor of 208 00:12:22,280 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: passing certain types of legislation that do provide the phrase 209 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: the crypto industry likes to use regulatory clarity about what 210 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: is and is not a security, Who will regulate it, 211 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 1: how will they regulate it? Does it mean that banks 212 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,880 Speaker 1: will have less onerous capital requirements on things to do 213 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 1: with digital assets? I mean, there's a slew of different 214 00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 1: ways that you could foreseeably have a so called crypto 215 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: friendly administration, but we have none of those details because 216 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,080 Speaker 1: none of the people who will make those decisions are 217 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: yet in place. 218 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,080 Speaker 2: So it's about how the regulatory landscape stands to change, 219 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:58,760 Speaker 2: but also what the attitude toward crypto is in Congress. 220 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 2: What does it mean for the crypto industry to have 221 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,000 Speaker 2: more friends in Congress? What does that lead to or 222 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 2: what would they like to see that lead to. 223 00:13:05,480 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: Crypto has a notoriously short attention span, and I think 224 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: in previous years there was this idea of we gave 225 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:15,280 Speaker 1: you money, it's two days later. Why has nothing happened yet? 226 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: And what I think has to evolve and is evolving, 227 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: and this you know campaign cycle has shown is you 228 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: now have more people on the crypto end with a 229 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,760 Speaker 1: more sophisticated understanding of how business gets done in DC 230 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: and how long a game you have to be playing 231 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: and what you have to be you know, advocating for 232 00:13:34,640 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 1: in addition to the things that you might want immediately 233 00:13:37,240 --> 00:13:39,760 Speaker 1: and where those concessions have to be. And we're certainly 234 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,520 Speaker 1: going to see that in the hiring, right. I suspect 235 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: that one of the areas of you know, job listing 236 00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: profusion will be in people who know how to negotiate 237 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: with law makers and their staffs. 238 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 2: You have lived through crypto booms and busts before these 239 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,320 Speaker 2: many cycles. Does this one feel different to you in 240 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 2: any way? 241 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: I think it's certainly the first one in which you 242 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 1: have a government that's not like El Salvador that is 243 00:14:10,040 --> 00:14:14,960 Speaker 1: specifically saying this is going to be a part of 244 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:19,400 Speaker 1: our policy in one way or another. Right Like this 245 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,720 Speaker 1: is the first major sorry to be emerging markets, but 246 00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,360 Speaker 1: this is like the first major sovereign test of what 247 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:30,640 Speaker 1: does it mean to have you know, kind of an 248 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: administration come in partly on the back of saying digital 249 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: assets are something that we're going to take really seriously, 250 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: and not just digital assets in the form of like 251 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: a central bank back digital currency or stable coins, Like 252 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,760 Speaker 1: we're really going to go, you know, true believer and 253 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: talk about bitcoin a lot, and like they're looking at 254 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,920 Speaker 1: this from a very different set of levels, not from 255 00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: like retail adoption, but like a systemic change to how 256 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: the US government does business in a very broad way, 257 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:03,040 Speaker 1: and that will have consequences whatever happens. 258 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gura. 259 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: This episode was produced by David Fox and Alex Sagura, 260 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:16,360 Speaker 2: who also mixed it. Adriana Tapia fact checked it. Our 261 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:20,320 Speaker 2: senior producer is Naomi Shaven. Our senior editor is Elizabeth Ponso. 262 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 2: They both edited this episode. Our executive producer is Nicole 263 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 2: Beemster Boor. Sage Bauman is Bloomberg's head of podcasts. If 264 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,120 Speaker 2: you liked this episode, make sure to subscribe and review 265 00:15:31,160 --> 00:15:33,800 Speaker 2: The Big Take wherever you listen to podcasts. It helps 266 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 2: people find the show. Thanks for listening. We'll be back tomorrow.