WEBVTT - How Ukraine Is Winning The War Against Russia | A Conversation with Ken Harbaugh

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<v Speaker 1>You're described in the Atlantic piece that Russian soldier he

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<v Speaker 1>was stalked by the Ukrainian drone cruise and taken out,

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<v Speaker 1>was assigned a point value, and that the crews and

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<v Speaker 1>at this point in the war, that this is at

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<v Speaker 1>some level a video game war, in that there are

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<v Speaker 1>points assigned for various targets and the drone operators are

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<v Speaker 1>competing with one another to collect points. Talk about that, well.

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<v Speaker 2>First of all, this is probably the first generation that

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<v Speaker 2>could actually wage war this way because they were brought

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<v Speaker 2>up with these with video games, right. And don't get

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<v Speaker 2>me wrong, the team I was with was deadly serious

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<v Speaker 2>about what they were doing. They knew they they were

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<v Speaker 2>defending their country against a country Russia that wanted to

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<v Speaker 2>do horrible things. And during the last trip to Ukraine,

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<v Speaker 2>I was in Hirson and the Russians still have half

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<v Speaker 2>of her son and occasionally they still hear from family

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<v Speaker 2>members on the other side about what the Russians are doing.

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<v Speaker 2>And make no mistake, their survival is at state, so

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<v Speaker 2>they're serious about what they're doing. But they're also relatively young.

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<v Speaker 2>Most of these drone pilots are in their twenties, some

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<v Speaker 2>even younger than that, and they are incredibly skilled, they

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<v Speaker 2>have quick reflexes. They have to be that close to

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<v Speaker 2>the front. I get this question from Americans all the time.

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<v Speaker 2>Why don't they operate their drones from another country? Like

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<v Speaker 2>people might know that when we fly a Predator, the

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<v Speaker 2>pilot's in Vegas, right he's back home in Nevada. They

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<v Speaker 2>have to be that close to the front because the

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<v Speaker 2>reaction time when you're chasing a soldier through the rubble

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<v Speaker 2>of a bombed out city, the fraction time is the

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<v Speaker 2>reaction time has to be in milliseconds. You can't wait

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<v Speaker 2>for that lag between the satellite uplink and the command

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<v Speaker 2>and the recommand. So they have to be right up

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<v Speaker 2>there at the front, and they have to react quickly,

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<v Speaker 2>and they have to approach the gamification with a degree

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<v Speaker 2>of seriousness that I just cannot imagine having as a

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<v Speaker 2>twenty two year old. But to your question about the

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<v Speaker 2>point system, that is another innovation that America, our war planners,

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<v Speaker 2>our Department of War. I'm going to put it in air

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<v Speaker 2>quote Steve, I think we're very slow to understand just

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<v Speaker 2>how adaptive the Ukrainians have been and they're able to

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<v Speaker 2>change the prioritization of targets at the front in an

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<v Speaker 2>instant It would take the American command structure, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe weeks to actually change how their soldiers engage targets

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<v Speaker 2>because it would have to be, you know, an official order,

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<v Speaker 2>it'd have to be written up, it would have the

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<v Speaker 2>culture of that behavior, the habits would have to cascade down.

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<v Speaker 2>And in Ukraine instead, they've created, for all intensive purposes,

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<v Speaker 2>a game. They've created a point system to value different

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<v Speaker 2>kinds of different targets based on what the commanders need

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<v Speaker 2>hit that day. So if they see infantry massing for

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<v Speaker 2>a potential assault, suddenly infantrymen go to the top of

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<v Speaker 2>the point stack if they know that, you know, a

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<v Speaker 2>new shipment of rocket launchers has arrived. On making this up,

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<v Speaker 2>of course, but you get the point. Based on the

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<v Speaker 2>intel they're receiving and the threats that they're perceiving, they

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<v Speaker 2>change the value of the targets. It updates a website

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<v Speaker 2>portal that the drone units check every morning and they

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<v Speaker 2>decide what they're going to hit that day. On the

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<v Speaker 2>day I was embedded with them. Special operators Ukrainian equivalent, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>the Russian equivalent of seals, commandos and infantry or at

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<v Speaker 2>the top of that point list, there were a couple

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<v Speaker 2>of Russian special operators special forces that crossed the river

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<v Speaker 2>on jet skis to try to get at our position.

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<v Speaker 2>That was a very valuable target that day. And the

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<v Speaker 2>interesting thing about this point system is it's not just

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<v Speaker 2>for vanity, although they're very proud of their and forgive me,

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<v Speaker 2>this is gruesome, but it's war, right, and I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>going to sugarcoat it. They're proud of their kills, as

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<v Speaker 2>they should be. If I get in trouble for that,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to apologize. They are proud of what

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<v Speaker 2>they're doing, and I'm proud to be alongside them as

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<v Speaker 2>they defend their homeland. As they rack up these points.

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<v Speaker 2>Once they get enough, they can literally cash them in

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<v Speaker 2>for for things that will make life in the trench

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<v Speaker 2>or life in the bunker just a little easier. They're

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<v Speaker 2>not cashing them in for explosives or drones, but they

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<v Speaker 2>can cash them in for a coffee pot, right, they

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<v Speaker 2>can cash them in for a new pair of combat boots.

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<v Speaker 2>And trying to imagine the American military approaching something that way,

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<v Speaker 2>it's inconceivable. Ukrainians are adapting in every way. They can

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<v Speaker 2>to win this war, and it is humbling to behold.

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<v Speaker 1>Who's winning the war can as you see it from

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<v Speaker 1>the front.

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<v Speaker 2>There's no doubt in my mind Ukraine is winning this war,

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<v Speaker 2>and I can put metrics to that. But let me

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<v Speaker 2>just start with the gut reaction I have in spending

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<v Speaker 2>time with Ukrainians, who, as exhausted as they are, are

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<v Speaker 2>determined to fight every day for their families and for

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<v Speaker 2>their homeland, as compared to the Russians who are only

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<v Speaker 2>in it for the money, who don't follow warders, where

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<v Speaker 2>desertion is a massive problem, and where their infantry are

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<v Speaker 2>treated like animals or worse, I bet the Russians don't

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<v Speaker 2>treat their farm animals the way Russian infantry get treated

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<v Speaker 2>as human radar. I know I made that point already,

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<v Speaker 2>but I want to drive it home. They literally use

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<v Speaker 2>people to find Ukrainian gun positions and where the bodies

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<v Speaker 2>pile up, that's where the Ukrainians are. It's appalling and

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<v Speaker 2>it is a It's a culture of death. At the

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<v Speaker 2>end of the day. Russia ascribes to this meaningless view

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<v Speaker 2>of life. It is a country that exists to serve power,

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<v Speaker 2>that people exist to serve the government and Ukraine. The

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<v Speaker 2>government exists to serve the people, and you see that

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<v Speaker 2>in the lengths they go to to try to protect

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<v Speaker 2>human life, whether it's in a premie ward in Kiev

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<v Speaker 2>or at the front Ukraine. Well they'll where they will

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<v Speaker 2>give a kilometer of territory to shave Ukrainian lives and

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<v Speaker 2>killed ten thousand Russians in the process.

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<v Speaker 1>Ken, of course, you are unable to tell us where

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<v Speaker 1>you are. For everyone joined. Ken is at the front,

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<v Speaker 1>in harm's way this evening in Ukraine, where it's seven

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<v Speaker 1>forty seven pm. Last question I have for you is

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<v Speaker 1>if you would just take us inside your journey to

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<v Speaker 1>the front from entering Ukraine from the cities, the degree

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<v Speaker 1>of normalcy that exists, or maybe better yet, what exists

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<v Speaker 1>in Ukraine as normal or far from the front, in

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<v Speaker 1>this adjusted reality in wartime. But take us through the

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<v Speaker 1>journey to the to the front, in the change in demeanor,

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<v Speaker 1>in weariness, in resolve, in defiance. What take us take

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<v Speaker 1>us inside that that journey across Ukraine to the spot

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<v Speaker 1>you're in right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a great question and one no one has

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<v Speaker 2>asked me before. And I will describe my last trip

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<v Speaker 2>to the Front. But I'll actually relate something from from

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<v Speaker 2>earlier this trip because I think it. I think it

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<v Speaker 2>helps set the atmosphere. I had to go when I

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<v Speaker 2>first got to Kiev on this trip, I had to

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<v Speaker 2>go to the military supply store to get plates. They're

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<v Speaker 2>tough to travel with, they're heavy, uh, and my my

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<v Speaker 2>usual set of plates was borrowed by somebody else, so

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<v Speaker 2>I had to get new plates for the vest. Right

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<v Speaker 2>behind me, I think, yep, and these. While I was

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<v Speaker 2>at this military store getting those level three plates for

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<v Speaker 2>the VEST, I would guess half a dozen Ukrainian soldiers

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<v Speaker 2>with either one or both legs missing or an amputated

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<v Speaker 2>arm came in to get supplies for their next tour

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<v Speaker 2>at the front, and all of them have an exception.

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<v Speaker 2>If you are hurt that way in Ukraine, you have

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<v Speaker 2>a get out of jail free card. You have a

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<v Speaker 2>pass to spend the rest of your days with your

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<v Speaker 2>family doing whatever you want. And so many of these

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<v Speaker 2>guys choose to go back to fight because they know

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<v Speaker 2>that their family survival depends on what happens at the front.

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<v Speaker 2>In terms of getting to the front, it is kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a surreal experience. I mean, the first moment that

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<v Speaker 2>most people realize that there is something serious going on

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<v Speaker 2>in Ukraine is when you get to Poland and it

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<v Speaker 2>is reinforced that you cannot fly into Ukraine. The only

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<v Speaker 2>planes flying over Ukraine are Russian and Ukrainian helicopters and jets.

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<v Speaker 2>You do not want to fly in a commercial aircraft

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<v Speaker 2>over Ukraine, so you either have to walk, drive, or

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<v Speaker 2>take a train. And I've done all three. The last

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<v Speaker 2>time was on a train crossing the border to Kiev,

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<v Speaker 2>and then you on the last trip, I drove down

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<v Speaker 2>south and the checkpoints get progressively denser and closer together, denser,

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<v Speaker 2>meeting more serious, more soldiers there. And when I finally

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<v Speaker 2>joined up with the drone unit, we did it outside

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<v Speaker 2>within artillery range, but outside of FPV range or effective

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<v Speaker 2>FPV range. But that's it's not far before you get

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<v Speaker 2>within FPV range. And while we were brief.

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<v Speaker 1>For the for the people listening, ken FPV, you yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>FPV are those first person few drones that are the

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<v Speaker 2>most effective killers at the front now responsible for the

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<v Speaker 2>vast majority of casualties. Those are the drones that are

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<v Speaker 2>piloted remotely and that actually feed a drone's eye view

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<v Speaker 2>to the pilot, so they see what the Dronese is

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<v Speaker 2>and they are Kamikazi drones, suicide drones. So they fly

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<v Speaker 2>into the target and you were literally looking through that

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<v Speaker 2>drone camera seeing your target, which might be a human

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<v Speaker 2>being's face. Get closer and closer and closer into the screen.

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<v Speaker 2>Got static. We linked up with this drone crew under

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<v Speaker 2>the awning of a bombed out gas station, brief the

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<v Speaker 2>mission with nothing but a red pen light to illuminate

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<v Speaker 2>the map, and then drove through blacked out and ruined

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<v Speaker 2>city streets at a speed I wouldn't feel comfortable, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>driving on I ninety five, taking curves on two wheels,

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<v Speaker 2>because that's when you're most vulnerable. The Russians are doing

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<v Speaker 2>what the Ukrainians are doing as well, looking for any

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<v Speaker 2>movement in that area, and they see that vehicle moving.

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<v Speaker 2>And then you get to the warren of bombed out

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<v Speaker 2>buildings and overgrowth and you know, in some cases tunnels,

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<v Speaker 2>and you have seconds to get out of the vehicle,

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<v Speaker 2>get in the hole and hide. And I remember the

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<v Speaker 2>commander of the Ukrainian crew saying when we pull up,

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<v Speaker 2>don't grab anything, don't grab your bag, don't just get

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<v Speaker 2>inside will take care of the rest. And it literally

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<v Speaker 2>took them a few seconds to unload their gear and

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<v Speaker 2>get in the hole. And that actually wasn't the tensest

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<v Speaker 2>moment of that twenty hour mission. It was the X

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<v Speaker 2>fill thet when you're leaving after you've done your shift,

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<v Speaker 2>because the assumption is that that entire time, the Russian

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<v Speaker 2>drone pilots are trying to pinpoint your location and waiting

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<v Speaker 2>to see movement, waiting to see you emerge. And that

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<v Speaker 2>was the first time I really thought the guys were scared.

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<v Speaker 2>Even when the Russians camera panned over our position and

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<v Speaker 2>we saw it because we had tapped into their drone feed,

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<v Speaker 2>they didn't stop their usual banter. But for that X Phil,

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<v Speaker 2>you can just feel it. There's something in the air,

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<v Speaker 2>like all joking stopped. We made it from the hide

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<v Speaker 2>into the truck in a matter of seconds, and sure enough,

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<v Speaker 2>within probably five or ten seconds of speeding away, the

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<v Speaker 2>drone detector went off. It starts screaming that there is

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<v Speaker 2>a Russian attack drone approaching. And we passed a smoking

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<v Speaker 2>wreck of a vehicle on our way out that had

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<v Speaker 2>been hit recently, but that you know, really drove home

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<v Speaker 2>the point that we were in a war zone.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you

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<v Speaker 1>to join this community, where I promise to be honest,

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<v Speaker 1>blunt and direct about what is happening in this country.

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<v Speaker 1>America is in crisis. Follow and subscribe to this channel

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<v Speaker 1>and on substack. Thank you.