Speaker 1: You're described in the Atlantic piece that Russian soldier he
Speaker 1: was stalked by the Ukrainian drone cruise and taken out,
Speaker 1: was assigned a point value, and that the crews and
Speaker 1: at this point in the war, that this is at
Speaker 1: some level a video game war, in that there are
Speaker 1: points assigned for various targets and the drone operators are
Speaker 1: competing with one another to collect points. Talk about that, well.
Speaker 2: First of all, this is probably the first generation that
Speaker 2: could actually wage war this way because they were brought
Speaker 2: up with these with video games, right. And don't get
Speaker 2: me wrong, the team I was with was deadly serious
Speaker 2: about what they were doing. They knew they they were
Speaker 2: defending their country against a country Russia that wanted to
Speaker 2: do horrible things. And during the last trip to Ukraine,
Speaker 2: I was in Hirson and the Russians still have half
Speaker 2: of her son and occasionally they still hear from family
Speaker 2: members on the other side about what the Russians are doing.
Speaker 2: And make no mistake, their survival is at state, so
Speaker 2: they're serious about what they're doing. But they're also relatively young.
Speaker 2: Most of these drone pilots are in their twenties, some
Speaker 2: even younger than that, and they are incredibly skilled, they
Speaker 2: have quick reflexes. They have to be that close to
Speaker 2: the front. I get this question from Americans all the time.
Speaker 2: Why don't they operate their drones from another country? Like
Speaker 2: people might know that when we fly a Predator, the
Speaker 2: pilot's in Vegas, right he's back home in Nevada. They
Speaker 2: have to be that close to the front because the
Speaker 2: reaction time when you're chasing a soldier through the rubble
Speaker 2: of a bombed out city, the fraction time is the
Speaker 2: reaction time has to be in milliseconds. You can't wait
Speaker 2: for that lag between the satellite uplink and the command
Speaker 2: and the recommand. So they have to be right up
Speaker 2: there at the front, and they have to react quickly,
Speaker 2: and they have to approach the gamification with a degree
Speaker 2: of seriousness that I just cannot imagine having as a
Speaker 2: twenty two year old. But to your question about the
Speaker 2: point system, that is another innovation that America, our war planners,
Speaker 2: our Department of War. I'm going to put it in air
Speaker 2: quote Steve, I think we're very slow to understand just
Speaker 2: how adaptive the Ukrainians have been and they're able to
Speaker 2: change the prioritization of targets at the front in an
Speaker 2: instant It would take the American command structure, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe weeks to actually change how their soldiers engage targets
Speaker 2: because it would have to be, you know, an official order,
Speaker 2: it'd have to be written up, it would have the
Speaker 2: culture of that behavior, the habits would have to cascade down.
Speaker 2: And in Ukraine instead, they've created, for all intensive purposes,
Speaker 2: a game. They've created a point system to value different
Speaker 2: kinds of different targets based on what the commanders need
Speaker 2: hit that day. So if they see infantry massing for
Speaker 2: a potential assault, suddenly infantrymen go to the top of
Speaker 2: the point stack if they know that, you know, a
Speaker 2: new shipment of rocket launchers has arrived. On making this up,
Speaker 2: of course, but you get the point. Based on the
Speaker 2: intel they're receiving and the threats that they're perceiving, they
Speaker 2: change the value of the targets. It updates a website
Speaker 2: portal that the drone units check every morning and they
Speaker 2: decide what they're going to hit that day. On the
Speaker 2: day I was embedded with them. Special operators Ukrainian equivalent, sorry,
Speaker 2: the Russian equivalent of seals, commandos and infantry or at
Speaker 2: the top of that point list, there were a couple
Speaker 2: of Russian special operators special forces that crossed the river
Speaker 2: on jet skis to try to get at our position.
Speaker 2: That was a very valuable target that day. And the
Speaker 2: interesting thing about this point system is it's not just
Speaker 2: for vanity, although they're very proud of their and forgive me,
Speaker 2: this is gruesome, but it's war, right, and I'm not
Speaker 2: going to sugarcoat it. They're proud of their kills, as
Speaker 2: they should be. If I get in trouble for that,
Speaker 2: I'm not going to apologize. They are proud of what
Speaker 2: they're doing, and I'm proud to be alongside them as
Speaker 2: they defend their homeland. As they rack up these points.
Speaker 2: Once they get enough, they can literally cash them in
Speaker 2: for for things that will make life in the trench
Speaker 2: or life in the bunker just a little easier. They're
Speaker 2: not cashing them in for explosives or drones, but they
Speaker 2: can cash them in for a coffee pot, right, they
Speaker 2: can cash them in for a new pair of combat boots.
Speaker 2: And trying to imagine the American military approaching something that way,
Speaker 2: it's inconceivable. Ukrainians are adapting in every way. They can
Speaker 2: to win this war, and it is humbling to behold.
Speaker 1: Who's winning the war can as you see it from
Speaker 1: the front.
Speaker 2: There's no doubt in my mind Ukraine is winning this war,
Speaker 2: and I can put metrics to that. But let me
Speaker 2: just start with the gut reaction I have in spending
Speaker 2: time with Ukrainians, who, as exhausted as they are, are
Speaker 2: determined to fight every day for their families and for
Speaker 2: their homeland, as compared to the Russians who are only
Speaker 2: in it for the money, who don't follow warders, where
Speaker 2: desertion is a massive problem, and where their infantry are
Speaker 2: treated like animals or worse, I bet the Russians don't
Speaker 2: treat their farm animals the way Russian infantry get treated
Speaker 2: as human radar. I know I made that point already,
Speaker 2: but I want to drive it home. They literally use
Speaker 2: people to find Ukrainian gun positions and where the bodies
Speaker 2: pile up, that's where the Ukrainians are. It's appalling and
Speaker 2: it is a It's a culture of death. At the
Speaker 2: end of the day. Russia ascribes to this meaningless view
Speaker 2: of life. It is a country that exists to serve power,
Speaker 2: that people exist to serve the government and Ukraine. The
Speaker 2: government exists to serve the people, and you see that
Speaker 2: in the lengths they go to to try to protect
Speaker 2: human life, whether it's in a premie ward in Kiev
Speaker 2: or at the front Ukraine. Well they'll where they will
Speaker 2: give a kilometer of territory to shave Ukrainian lives and
Speaker 2: killed ten thousand Russians in the process.
Speaker 1: Ken, of course, you are unable to tell us where
Speaker 1: you are. For everyone joined. Ken is at the front,
Speaker 1: in harm's way this evening in Ukraine, where it's seven
Speaker 1: forty seven pm. Last question I have for you is
Speaker 1: if you would just take us inside your journey to
Speaker 1: the front from entering Ukraine from the cities, the degree
Speaker 1: of normalcy that exists, or maybe better yet, what exists
Speaker 1: in Ukraine as normal or far from the front, in
Speaker 1: this adjusted reality in wartime. But take us through the
Speaker 1: journey to the to the front, in the change in demeanor,
Speaker 1: in weariness, in resolve, in defiance. What take us take
Speaker 1: us inside that that journey across Ukraine to the spot
Speaker 1: you're in right now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great question and one no one has
Speaker 2: asked me before. And I will describe my last trip
Speaker 2: to the Front. But I'll actually relate something from from
Speaker 2: earlier this trip because I think it. I think it
Speaker 2: helps set the atmosphere. I had to go when I
Speaker 2: first got to Kiev on this trip, I had to
Speaker 2: go to the military supply store to get plates. They're
Speaker 2: tough to travel with, they're heavy, uh, and my my
Speaker 2: usual set of plates was borrowed by somebody else, so
Speaker 2: I had to get new plates for the vest. Right
Speaker 2: behind me, I think, yep, and these. While I was
Speaker 2: at this military store getting those level three plates for
Speaker 2: the VEST, I would guess half a dozen Ukrainian soldiers
Speaker 2: with either one or both legs missing or an amputated
Speaker 2: arm came in to get supplies for their next tour
Speaker 2: at the front, and all of them have an exception.
Speaker 2: If you are hurt that way in Ukraine, you have
Speaker 2: a get out of jail free card. You have a
Speaker 2: pass to spend the rest of your days with your
Speaker 2: family doing whatever you want. And so many of these
Speaker 2: guys choose to go back to fight because they know
Speaker 2: that their family survival depends on what happens at the front.
Speaker 2: In terms of getting to the front, it is kind
Speaker 2: of a surreal experience. I mean, the first moment that
Speaker 2: most people realize that there is something serious going on
Speaker 2: in Ukraine is when you get to Poland and it
Speaker 2: is reinforced that you cannot fly into Ukraine. The only
Speaker 2: planes flying over Ukraine are Russian and Ukrainian helicopters and jets.
Speaker 2: You do not want to fly in a commercial aircraft
Speaker 2: over Ukraine, so you either have to walk, drive, or
Speaker 2: take a train. And I've done all three. The last
Speaker 2: time was on a train crossing the border to Kiev,
Speaker 2: and then you on the last trip, I drove down
Speaker 2: south and the checkpoints get progressively denser and closer together, denser,
Speaker 2: meeting more serious, more soldiers there. And when I finally
Speaker 2: joined up with the drone unit, we did it outside
Speaker 2: within artillery range, but outside of FPV range or effective
Speaker 2: FPV range. But that's it's not far before you get
Speaker 2: within FPV range. And while we were brief.
Speaker 1: For the for the people listening, ken FPV, you yeah.
Speaker 2: FPV are those first person few drones that are the
Speaker 2: most effective killers at the front now responsible for the
Speaker 2: vast majority of casualties. Those are the drones that are
Speaker 2: piloted remotely and that actually feed a drone's eye view
Speaker 2: to the pilot, so they see what the Dronese is
Speaker 2: and they are Kamikazi drones, suicide drones. So they fly
Speaker 2: into the target and you were literally looking through that
Speaker 2: drone camera seeing your target, which might be a human
Speaker 2: being's face. Get closer and closer and closer into the screen.
Speaker 2: Got static. We linked up with this drone crew under
Speaker 2: the awning of a bombed out gas station, brief the
Speaker 2: mission with nothing but a red pen light to illuminate
Speaker 2: the map, and then drove through blacked out and ruined
Speaker 2: city streets at a speed I wouldn't feel comfortable, you know,
Speaker 2: driving on I ninety five, taking curves on two wheels,
Speaker 2: because that's when you're most vulnerable. The Russians are doing
Speaker 2: what the Ukrainians are doing as well, looking for any
Speaker 2: movement in that area, and they see that vehicle moving.
Speaker 2: And then you get to the warren of bombed out
Speaker 2: buildings and overgrowth and you know, in some cases tunnels,
Speaker 2: and you have seconds to get out of the vehicle,
Speaker 2: get in the hole and hide. And I remember the
Speaker 2: commander of the Ukrainian crew saying when we pull up,
Speaker 2: don't grab anything, don't grab your bag, don't just get
Speaker 2: inside will take care of the rest. And it literally
Speaker 2: took them a few seconds to unload their gear and
Speaker 2: get in the hole. And that actually wasn't the tensest
Speaker 2: moment of that twenty hour mission. It was the X
Speaker 2: fill thet when you're leaving after you've done your shift,
Speaker 2: because the assumption is that that entire time, the Russian
Speaker 2: drone pilots are trying to pinpoint your location and waiting
Speaker 2: to see movement, waiting to see you emerge. And that
Speaker 2: was the first time I really thought the guys were scared.
Speaker 2: Even when the Russians camera panned over our position and
Speaker 2: we saw it because we had tapped into their drone feed,
Speaker 2: they didn't stop their usual banter. But for that X Phil,
Speaker 2: you can just feel it. There's something in the air,
Speaker 2: like all joking stopped. We made it from the hide
Speaker 2: into the truck in a matter of seconds, and sure enough,
Speaker 2: within probably five or ten seconds of speeding away, the
Speaker 2: drone detector went off. It starts screaming that there is
Speaker 2: a Russian attack drone approaching. And we passed a smoking
Speaker 2: wreck of a vehicle on our way out that had
Speaker 2: been hit recently, but that you know, really drove home
Speaker 2: the point that we were in a war zone.
Speaker 1: I'm Steve Schmidt. This is the warning. I invite you
Speaker 1: to join this community, where I promise to be honest,
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