WEBVTT - "Rethinking Work with Rishad Tobaccowala" 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:04.920 The whole focus at emphasis on return to the office 0:00:05.040 --> 0:00:07.120 is a total lack of him. It's got nothing to 0:00:07.120 --> 0:00:09.880 do with the future of work, nothing, And that's what 0:00:10.039 --> 0:00:12.119 Business Insider and all these people are writing about it, 0:00:12.440 --> 0:00:15.720 like who in the world even understands where this is going? 0:00:15.720 --> 0:00:17.599 Which is why I hope my book is going to 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:19.880 basically either wake people up or they got to think 0:00:19.920 --> 0:00:23.319 I'm coming I've become totally demented and delusional, which is 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:24.079 also very likely. 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:27.120 Well, welcome to this episode of Taking a Walk on Buzznight. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:30.320 And if you like this podcast or you like our 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.040 companion podcast which is called Music Save Me, one of 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:36.360 the best things you can do is tell your friends 0:00:36.400 --> 0:00:41.720 about it. And I so appreciate your support. Today I 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:46.519 welcome one of the supreme best human beings on the planet, 0:00:46.680 --> 0:00:55.160 Rashad Tobakawala. He is a teacher, advisor, author, Buddha in 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.520 my opinion, named by BusinessWeek, is one of the top 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:04.080 pioneering in the business world. Time magazine also has dubbed 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:09.960 him one of the US marketing innovators. Two books Restoring 0:01:10.000 --> 0:01:13.000 the Soul of Business and a new book that we're 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:16.199 going to be talking about as well, called Rethinking work. 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:19.959 He's a returning guest on taking a walk. So welcome back, 0:01:20.080 --> 0:01:21.440 Rishad to Bakawalla. 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:24.360 Thank you very much, Buzz, and thank you for your 0:01:24.400 --> 0:01:26.200 kind words and for inviting me back. 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:30.480 It's always great to see you. So you recently, like 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:36.120 I attended the Consumer Electronics Show and other than some 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:40.600 sore feet from fifteen to twenty thousand steps a day, 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:44.880 are there any particular takeaways that you can bring to 0:01:44.920 --> 0:01:49.040 this conversation from your visit to CEES twenty twenty five. 0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:56.200 Yes, so I would say that there are three big takeaways. 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:03.480 The first one clearly is not surprisingly, everything had AI 0:02:03.760 --> 0:02:07.320 in it on it and even if it wasn't, uh, 0:02:07.400 --> 0:02:09.519 it was going to be AI. So you know, very 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.280 much like you know your bus your website will now 0:02:13.320 --> 0:02:16.560 be called Busnight dot ai. So everything was going to 0:02:16.600 --> 0:02:20.919 basically be AI. But this AI was actually increasingly real. 0:02:21.720 --> 0:02:24.160 And the first thing really is that AI continues to 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:27.600 spread everywhere, and we're actually now moving from generative AI, 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:32.000 which obviously continues to exist, which is used obviously in 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:35.360 the creative and other forms, whether it's chagpt et cetera, 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.480 to two different kinds of AI, one which you're beginning 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:41.960 to see, which is agentic AI, where AI does some 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:44.960 work for you. Was to just provide you know, some writing. 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.520 And then what we beginning to see is physical AI 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:52.679 with robots and other kinds of things. So one was 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.960 the spread of AI. The second one, I think is 0:02:56.720 --> 0:03:03.000 it'll continued to basically see every industry is now increasingly 0:03:04.000 --> 0:03:07.519 starting to become a technology industry, and you have everything 0:03:07.639 --> 0:03:11.280 from I believe it was one of the Japanese I 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:15.120 don't know whether Burbsecurity or Saporo that actually had a 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:20.400 product that used electric used some form of technology to 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.200 make you feel that you were eating salt when you 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:27.480 were not eating salt, you know, across the board. My 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:32.279 sense what's beginning to happen is and these are forwards 0:03:32.280 --> 0:03:35.760 that I use which are not my own, but it's 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:42.640 basically from Brian Cooley who works at CNAD, that technology 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:46.640 is that is really good is in't technology. It's increasingly 0:03:46.760 --> 0:03:53.280 just what works, and what works is something that is one. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:57.560 It is intensely transparent, where you don't think about the technology, 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.040 you just get the benefits of it. It's very intimate, 0:04:01.120 --> 0:04:03.680 so it knows you. It's a better way of seeing personalized, 0:04:04.400 --> 0:04:06.880 it's very intuitive, so you know how to use it, 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:13.800 and it is constant, so it's always there, and more 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:18.000 and more it's becoming like that, you know, everything from 0:04:18.560 --> 0:04:24.000 bearable objects to obviously the phone. That's the second thing, 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:27.840 And the third, which is also happening is our entire 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:33.640 industry has been built increasingly on two ways of interfacing 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.080 with people. One is through search, so increasingly you know 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:41.599 whether it's search and including you know, chatchipts search. And 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.200 then the other one is through streams, so we see 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:49.240 streams when know it's TikTok streams, Facebook, streams, et cetera. 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:52.000 I think we're going to have a third one which 0:04:52.040 --> 0:04:56.080 we began to see, which is conversation. And so we're 0:04:56.120 --> 0:05:00.040 going to increasingly converse very much like Scarlett you and 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.320 as her doesn't the movie her in a sort of 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:09.400 a voice, so it's a conversation. So your media of podcasting, 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:13.080 right is actually going to be the next way people 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:15.240 are sort of interacting. So you're going to search with 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.760 the stuff stuff is going to be streamed, and then 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.520 the stuff that's going to be conversational, and I think 0:05:20.640 --> 0:05:23.000 AI and a lot of modern technology is going to 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:30.080 be conversational because I can't think of something more intimate, intuitive, transparent, 0:05:30.400 --> 0:05:32.080 and constant than conversation. 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:37.600 When you think of the content creators who all over 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:43.960 the place, no matter what the business, whether it's the media, entertainment, 0:05:44.839 --> 0:05:51.240 are fearful of artificial intelligence, what would you say to 0:05:51.440 --> 0:05:57.039 them as sort of a baseline opportunity for them to 0:05:57.240 --> 0:06:00.560 embrace change rather than be so fear full of it. 0:06:01.880 --> 0:06:05.000 I think there are a couple. One is there is 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:09.760 a reason to be I would say worried. And the 0:06:09.839 --> 0:06:15.200 reason to be worried, obviously is all these machines are 0:06:15.240 --> 0:06:20.640 training on our intellectual capital without in many cases paying 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:25.719 for it. Now, some people are making negotiations, things like 0:06:25.760 --> 0:06:29.360 the Financial Times and Access Sprinker have made negotiations, and 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.840 others have decided to go to court, like the New 0:06:31.920 --> 0:06:36.520 York Times. But there are new technologies and new companies. 0:06:36.760 --> 0:06:39.280 Like a gentleman called Bill Gross, who started an ideal lab, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:43.800 has started something called called pro Rata, and he basically said, hey, Rishard, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.640 can I get all your content? And if I make money, 0:06:46.680 --> 0:06:51.080 we'll share it half half? Okay. So the first part 0:06:51.080 --> 0:06:54.599 of it is this is a new world order. And 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.320 if I am a creative I would think of the 0:06:56.440 --> 0:07:01.240 following three tactics. Tactic number one is how do I 0:07:01.360 --> 0:07:04.640 monetize as much as possible what people are eating from 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:09.720 me they are going to eat. The second one is 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.840 try to figure out a way to put as much 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:17.040 of your stuff out there, because, in effect, in the 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.800 future of conversation, if people basically go today and ask chat, 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:27.480 gipt vocally tell me about brashon tobacco Alla, the answer 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:29.720 that will come back will actually make me feel pretty 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:34.200 good because I'll let them eat my website, not my book. 0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:36.640 They will let them meet my website by a free 0:07:36.680 --> 0:07:38.640 sub stack. So I put out a lot of free 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:42.240 stuff that they can eat on, and that allows me 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:44.640 to appear proper. So the whole idea is how are 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:47.360 you represented? If you're a brand. You know, there's a 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.200 friend of mine, Pete black Shaw, who has a company 0:07:49.240 --> 0:07:52.520 called brand ranked dowt Ai, how does your brand show 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:58.640 up over the in these seven different engines chat, ChiPT, etc. Lord. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:03.200 So second is one is monetize what you can. Second 0:08:03.320 --> 0:08:06.000 is try to understand that this is the new interface 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:07.880 of discovery where people are going to figure out what 0:08:08.000 --> 0:08:11.120 your brand and discovery is and feed it. And the 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.720 third one is think that if you came out of 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:16.880 school today and you have these technologies, what would your 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:21.160 career look like? So reinvent and your career because the 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.160 reality of it is, every time there's been a new 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:28.560 enhancement of technology, the really good creative people have honed 0:08:28.600 --> 0:08:33.640 and practiced aircraft, whether it was you know, the birth 0:08:34.360 --> 0:08:40.679 of radio and then television and then Adobe, Photoshop and 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.560 everything else. So the idea is you can't be frozen 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:47.920 in time. The world's worst thing is to basically a 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:52.079 not accept that this is real, be not adapt, embrace 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:57.599 and complement these new technologies. And three is not to 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:00.480 spend some time at least to reimagine what you career 0:09:00.679 --> 0:09:03.880 and what you do looks like. Because what I basically 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:06.840 told people is there are three key things to this. 0:09:07.960 --> 0:09:10.679 AI in many cases is going to save money. It's 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:12.880 going to be efficiency. But the efficiency doesn't have to 0:09:12.920 --> 0:09:15.880 only be that the person who hires you gets you 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:19.000 for less. It's you can do more for less. Also 0:09:19.000 --> 0:09:23.559 think about that, So there's efficiency, there's obviously effectiveness, which 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.240 is you can be more impactful. But the third one 0:09:28.280 --> 0:09:31.760 is existential risk or existential opportunities. How do you re 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:36.000 imagine your business? And a big part of my new book, 0:09:36.080 --> 0:09:39.000 or Rethinking Work, is we keep thinking about work. The 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.680 weight was in twenty nineteen, but the weight was in 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.559 twenty nineteen was bullshit. It shouldn't have been that way 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:46.440 in twenty nineteen. So why do you want to go 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:49.280 back to twenty nineteen? Because the future doesn't fit in 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:54.080 the containers of the past, and twenty nineteen is the past. 0:09:53.920 --> 0:09:56.320 And you just highlight Like one of certainly one of 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:59.480 my favorite reasons for going to cees, it's really too 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:02.840 look at the future and not be frightened by it, 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.160 to be aware and then to then be prepared on 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:10.080 how to react and adapt and learn. 0:10:11.080 --> 0:10:14.080 Absolutely, And as someone who has been fortunate when I 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:17.360 was working in my full time job and therefore I 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.720 both had access and the budgets, I am somebody who's 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:26.640 had the opportunity of going to everything from ted CS 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:31.880 T Davos to just about everything. There is nothing like 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:35.920 CS because it's one hundred and fifty thousand people from 0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.240 all over the world, small companies to large companies. People 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.199 should be there and people should not be there in 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.839 midst of alcohol, drinks and gambling taking a risk on 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:50.640 the future. And I find that's really cool. And in fact, 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:53.280 I had the opportunity to speak to one hundred and 0:10:53.280 --> 0:10:56.080 forty people from a company called Novartists, whose president had 0:10:56.080 --> 0:11:01.199 brought one hundred and forty doctors and medical practitioners and 0:11:01.280 --> 0:11:07.440 pharmacists and marketers to the Consumer Electronics Show. And his 0:11:07.679 --> 0:11:10.000 thing is here is where the future is taking place, 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:15.319 and the companies that are most valuable were born here, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:17.839 and we should be here because we want to be 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.320 among the most valuable companies. And if healthcare is changing, 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.880 we need to be where healthcare is changing. And health 0:11:24.880 --> 0:11:27.600 care is more likely to change outside our industry than 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:30.320 just inside the healthcare industry. It's interesting way of thinking 0:11:30.320 --> 0:11:34.679 about it, and that is I think what a lot 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.960 of people don't recognize is we cling onto the past 0:11:39.640 --> 0:11:43.000 though we want to thrive in the future. And my 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.520 basic belief is the past is pretty good parts of it. 0:11:46.840 --> 0:11:48.480 So I call it the roots. Figure out where the 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:51.640 roots are, drop the rest, and then take wing. 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:56.680 Well, we all have to dream. And the beautiful part 0:11:56.720 --> 0:11:59.520 about CEES is the dreaming part for so many people 0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:02.880 who are there who are trying to find it in 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.679 their own individual businesses, and for so many who are 0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:11.960 dreamers who have created just that walk in Eureka Park 0:12:12.160 --> 0:12:15.560 is full of dreamers. So I think the absence of 0:12:15.640 --> 0:12:21.839 dreamers more regularly in our society and our businesses, it 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:25.760 makes cees even more critical for the dreaming aspect. Would 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:26.559 you agree with that? 0:12:27.600 --> 0:12:32.280 Yeah? Absolutely, absolutely, And I think that is you know, 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:38.359 something buzz you've done really well. You sort off this podcast, 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.880 you dreamt about it, right. We chatted and I was 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:45.520 fortunate to be one of your first guests, and it 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:47.760 was you know, people could have talked to you and 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:51.240 said what's wrong with you? Right, and now you've got 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.319 two of them, you know, partnering with our Heart Radio 0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.000 and stuff like that, and you dream now. Sometimes dreams 0:12:58.040 --> 0:13:02.680 are visions that take you in the right place. Sometimes 0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:08.319 dreams are nightmmares that take you backwards. Sometimes dreams are delusions, 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.200 but you know you have to start somewhere, and sometimes 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:15.640 dreams become reality and make a better future, which has 0:13:15.640 --> 0:13:19.040 happened for you, and it happens for a lot of people. 0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:23.439 But if you don't dream, then then you get stuck, right, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:27.040 And the reality of it is you do need to 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:30.000 take these chances. And that's what I find about CS 0:13:30.040 --> 0:13:32.840 and Growking to a lot of people is you get 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:38.400 inspired to take chances and to me the future, and 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:40.520 I'm going to write about this. I began to realize 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:44.800 that almost everything that we end up doing is about chance, 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.160 change and choice. We need to take chances. People give 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:51.640 us chances, sometimes good chances, bad chances. We're living in 0:13:51.679 --> 0:13:55.360 a world of change, and we've got to decide what 0:13:55.440 --> 0:13:57.640 choice are we going to make about change and what 0:13:57.760 --> 0:14:01.320 choices we select? So change, chance and choice and everything 0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:05.640 else is not part of living, as I basically say. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.360 You know, the day we stop changing is the day 0:14:08.400 --> 0:14:11.600 we die. And even then we sort of decay, but 0:14:11.679 --> 0:14:15.480 now inside a grave or inside you know, crematorial, but 0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:18.440 when we're as long as you're living. Right, to me, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.840 living is an act of change and an act of 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:22.680 creativity and an act of chance. 0:14:24.120 --> 0:14:28.680 I'm so grateful for your touch on things that has 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:33.800 been so instrumental in helping me see things differently, certainly 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.640 for these podcasts and the way I think about them. 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.720 I want to ask you, though, going back in your career, 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:46.120 you have this gentle touch that is so welcoming and 0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:53.360 collaborative and engaging and kind. Were you ever a cattle 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:59.360 prod push at an earlier point in your career. 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.120 I wasn't, but I did have bosses who were cattle 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:08.080 at push, I had clients who were cattle product push. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.400 And I began to understand both the benefits of cattle 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:16.560 product push and there are some benefits of those and 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.840 I also began to say, hey, can we get those 0:15:19.880 --> 0:15:24.560 benefits without some of the the bad downsides, which is 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.680 leaving people feeling bad about themselves, feeling sometimes bullied, feeling 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:33.280 sometimes inadequate. Right, And I turned it around and I 0:15:33.360 --> 0:15:38.360 basically said, what's good about them is they want a 0:15:38.400 --> 0:15:43.120 goal and they have a set of urgency, and they 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:44.880 believe to get to their goal in a set of 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:48.880 urgency that they have to basically do it with a threat. Right. 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.040 And my belief is urgency is important, having a goal 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:58.600 is important, but could you do it with a instead 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:02.920 of a thread, with instead some form of a attraction 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.720 that you are not running away from something, but you're 0:16:07.760 --> 0:16:13.920 running to something. And that to me basically meant and 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:16.720 I wrote about this is a having clarity and telling 0:16:16.760 --> 0:16:20.160 people where we're going, but at the same time giving 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:23.120 people a sense of energy that they can actually do it, 0:16:24.360 --> 0:16:28.600 if that makes sense. And then third is being generous 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:31.960 at providing them with resources, including training, so they can 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.520 go do it. And what I found is when you 0:16:35.600 --> 0:16:39.880 are when you give people clarity or you work with 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.920 them for clarity, and you give them energy, slash and 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.400 then belief in generosity, two out of three people will 0:16:46.440 --> 0:16:49.560 take it, and one out of three people won't. It 0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:53.080 simply means that other one out of three people are 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:55.920 not right for your company or for the job. Not 0:16:56.000 --> 0:16:58.040 that they're not right people, they're just not right for 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.320 the company of the job. And you can discuss that 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:04.199 without yelling and screaming at them, okay, because if you 0:17:04.280 --> 0:17:07.080 yell and scream, what might happen is one out of 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.679 the three that are not that good might continue to 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.080 do what they have to do because they're scared they're 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.640 not that good, and one of the three who are 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.480 really good are so good they don't have to take 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.960 this shit and they leave right. What I've always basically 0:17:21.000 --> 0:17:26.920 told people is I've never ever, ever believed that we're 0:17:26.920 --> 0:17:30.680 in a world where companies hire talent. I've always basically 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.400 believed we live in a world where talent chooses companies. 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:37.120 And people say, you're mad, And I guess I realized 0:17:37.160 --> 0:17:40.359 why I was mad because I was thinking about talent 0:17:40.400 --> 0:17:43.960 that's very good, and I've always believed the talent that's 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:48.520 very good has choices, and talent that isn't very good 0:17:48.640 --> 0:17:51.840 sometimes does not have choices. You can yell at those 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:56.280 people and they'll stay because they are cattle. But the 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:59.200 other people basically say, we're not a cow. Where if 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.439 I've argue, be if we can basically sell ourselves for 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.560 more and do less and make more money and be 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:10.760 treated specially and be massaged while these clowns yell and 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.439 scream and prod. And that's my whole basic belief is 0:18:14.480 --> 0:18:17.160 if you're world class, why do you have to yell 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:19.240 and scream a proad. You should be able to just 0:18:19.280 --> 0:18:23.639 speak and people should understand. And as importantly, you should 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.879 be very open when you're yelling and screaming. That then 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:28.640 people don't yell back and scream back at you, which 0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.920 they want because they're so scared of you. And actually 0:18:30.920 --> 0:18:33.240 the most you learn is when people actually don't yell 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:36.080 and scream back at you. But when people come to you, 0:18:36.080 --> 0:18:37.919 you know, buzz, You might come to me and say, Richard, 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:41.119 I think you're wrong on the following four things. And 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:43.560 because we haven't manage conversation all the time. You feel 0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:45.800 very free to come around and say, hey, I'm not 0:18:45.840 --> 0:18:49.600 sure these things are right right, which allows me to 0:18:49.640 --> 0:18:51.800 actually grow. But if all I'm doing is the yelling 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:54.359 at you, one you're scared to tell me that. The 0:18:54.400 --> 0:18:57.480 other is I hope he dies and fails, I'm not 0:18:57.480 --> 0:19:00.960 going to tell him anything. That's what I always say. 0:19:01.480 --> 0:19:05.679 People who yell at scream often have not been trained well. 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:08.000 Now that they're bad people, they've not been trained well, 0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:13.080 and in many cases they're deeply insecure. So I basically say, 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:17.760 when someone screams, you're hearing the roar of emptiness and insecurity. 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:21.119 That's all you're hearing. You're not hearing leadership. 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:23.760 We'll be right back with more of the Taking a 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:32.000 Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk Podcast. 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:39.400 You know you believe in a multifaceted, multi media, immersive 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:44.280 approach to things with experiences. The way you write your 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:49.600 weekly blog is an example of that. And on display 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:55.440 at ces and then outside of CEES is this little 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.560 place called the Sphere in Las Vegas. 0:19:58.680 --> 0:19:59.400 Yeah. 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:01.520 I don't know if you've made it over there, but 0:20:01.920 --> 0:20:05.800 what's your take on the future of immersive experiences that 0:20:06.440 --> 0:20:09.560 our show so on display at the Sphere. 0:20:11.000 --> 0:20:15.520 So I've had the opportunity to be at the Sphere twice, 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.880 once at this CS and once within the first three 0:20:20.920 --> 0:20:23.479 four weeks that it opened. I have not been like 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.920 for like a YouTube concert or an Eagles concert. Both 0:20:27.960 --> 0:20:31.159 times I saw post Cards from the Earth, which is 0:20:31.160 --> 0:20:35.480 the current show that's going on. And the first time 0:20:35.520 --> 0:20:37.679 I went is because I heard about it, so I 0:20:37.760 --> 0:20:40.680 bought tickets for my wife and daughters and we did it. 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.399 And the second time I went is because I'm on 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:49.480 the board of the company that helps created and they 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.520 had some prospects and clients there. They invited me as 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.320 a board director and I got a behind the scenes 0:20:56.480 --> 0:21:01.800 look at it. And I always believe enough in experiences 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.040 to be on the board of a company that has 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:06.919 created that and a lot of other things. So let 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:10.280 me tell you a little bit about experiences. I think, 0:21:10.760 --> 0:21:15.040 you know we talk about omni channel. I think the 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.720 world of marketing is moving from omnichannel to multi dimensional. 0:21:19.840 --> 0:21:24.240 We are starting to move from technology stacks to experience 0:21:24.359 --> 0:21:28.760 tax and there are all kinds of experiences of which 0:21:28.800 --> 0:21:33.280 there are four potential dimensions of experiences. One form of 0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:38.960 experience is the virtual experience. The other form of experience 0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:43.720 is a twin experience, where you think you're there and 0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:47.959 feels more real than virtual. A third form of experience 0:21:48.520 --> 0:21:51.560 is the real world. And a fourth form of experience 0:21:51.800 --> 0:21:56.959 is an immersive complete experience, as happens with unreal engine 0:21:56.960 --> 0:21:58.800 and a whole bunch of other things. You put those 0:21:58.800 --> 0:22:02.680 together and you see some of those happening at the sphere, 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.960 which is a great physical experience. It's a form of 0:22:06.000 --> 0:22:11.359 an immersive experience, and it's a real world experience too. 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:17.479 But a lot of people have, for instance, used another 0:22:17.520 --> 0:22:20.240 example and they say these things. I was at a 0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:23.679 presentation recently and someone said this stuff is for the 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:28.080 one percent. It is in some ways and not in 0:22:28.119 --> 0:22:31.680 other ways. So if you look at the sphere where 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:35.400 the cheapest you can get a ticket is eighty six dollars, right, 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:39.320 this is not cheap for one ticket, And if you 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:41.760 start doing VIP tickets and as stuff, it goes up 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:46.040 to about two hundred dollars right next to me, and 0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:48.879 I use it a lot, so I'm clearly one of 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.640 the minority. I have a Apple Vision pro which everybody 0:22:52.680 --> 0:22:56.040 basically believes is dead on arrival. It's not dead un arrival. 0:22:56.760 --> 0:23:01.440 The Apple Vision Pro is amazing because I believe it's 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:03.680 where the future of work in the future of television 0:23:03.720 --> 0:23:08.760 is going to occur. Ah, And I use it more 0:23:08.880 --> 0:23:11.760 like the future of television, and it's a very expensive. 0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:15.600 Future of television is three thousand dollars. Actually, by the 0:23:15.600 --> 0:23:18.000 time you're done ensuring it and paying the tax is 0:23:18.040 --> 0:23:20.199 four thousand dollars. We have to ensure for twenty nine 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.760 dollars a month. Because so expensive. But I use it 0:23:25.080 --> 0:23:30.760 everywhere in my travels as my form of television. It's incredible. 0:23:31.560 --> 0:23:35.280 In fact, sometimes at home and I have the luck 0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:38.800 of having an amazing eighty five inch television, sometimes I 0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:41.880 want to watch it on that versus that, which is one. 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:44.600 But everywhere I travel and I want planes it's period. 0:23:45.400 --> 0:23:48.760 But the other thing that I do is when i'm 0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:52.480 again working and I'm on a plane or I'm outside 0:23:52.680 --> 0:23:55.960 home at home, I have you know, as I talk 0:23:56.000 --> 0:23:59.680 to you, I've an XDR displayed these amazing beautiful displays 0:23:59.840 --> 0:24:02.720 no book. But on the road I have also a 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:05.000 great display. I have a back Pro, the top of 0:24:05.040 --> 0:24:07.320 the line back Pro with the retire display. But I 0:24:07.359 --> 0:24:10.560 put out this little fake and when I begin to 0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:13.840 have is multiple screens in front of me, it allows 0:24:13.840 --> 0:24:15.520 me to take that screen and be kind a huge 0:24:15.520 --> 0:24:18.800 screen in front of me, right, and I could do 0:24:18.840 --> 0:24:20.639 a lot of river things. I could also do this 0:24:20.640 --> 0:24:22.359 thing where I could have the multiple screeded sort of 0:24:22.400 --> 0:24:26.680 me while I have a video running, you know, watch 0:24:26.760 --> 0:24:29.320 it like CNN. So just like I'm doing today, can 0:24:29.359 --> 0:24:31.520 I basically doing this I'm talking to you. I've got, 0:24:32.000 --> 0:24:35.440 you know, the precedent thing the CNN at the back. 0:24:36.320 --> 0:24:39.120 I could do the exactly same thing. But that's part 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:40.840 of the future of work. But the real future of 0:24:40.840 --> 0:24:43.320 work at the future of television, especially the future of work. 0:24:43.760 --> 0:24:46.280 If people don't understand it, I mentioned it in my 0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.000 book is I tell everybody here listen, this is expensive. 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:52.480 It sounds very elitist. The price will come down, just 0:24:52.520 --> 0:24:54.280 like it has come down for phones and a bunch 0:24:54.320 --> 0:24:58.359 of other things. Go to an Apple store, ask for 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:01.159 a thirty minute demo of Vision Pro. Just ask for 0:25:01.160 --> 0:25:03.399 a thirty bitter demo Vision Pro. And when you have 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:08.040 that demo, ask them to show you the Alicia Keys 0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:13.080