Speaker 1: It's a crapshoot getting out there on this tour. I
Speaker 1: mean it's tough. And again people say, well, if you're
Speaker 1: good enough, you'll get there. And and I'll just add
Speaker 1: one thing, if you're good enough and have enough money,
Speaker 1: you'll get there. Put another log on the fire everybody
Speaker 1: hears get the time. Hello. This is Alan chip Knuck
Speaker 1: back for another Fire Drill podcast from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Delighted
Speaker 1: to be joined by Michael Bamberger, who just dropped his
Speaker 1: first big story on fire Pick like the dot com
Speaker 1: and everyone's talking about it and it's just a taste
Speaker 1: of what's to come. We're super excited about that. Michael,
Speaker 1: say hello, so they know your voice. Thank you very much. Indeed,
Speaker 1: and we have with us another wingman, the Jerry McGuire
Speaker 1: of the golf agenting business. Mac barne Art straight out
Speaker 1: of Sea Island. Mac, thanks for being hey. Thanks a
Speaker 1: great to be here. Hey, Michael, So we wanted to
Speaker 1: talk about the business of professional golf at this very
Speaker 1: chaotic moment, and Michael, I have touched on a little bit,
Speaker 1: but we really value your insight Matt because you've you've
Speaker 1: been in the boardrooms and the back rooms and you
Speaker 1: know where a lot of the bodies are buried, mostly metaphorically,
Speaker 1: but maybe not. And uh, how would you describe where
Speaker 1: the game is right now with the battle between the tour,
Speaker 1: the Saudias and everything else that's swirling around. Well, I mean, obviously,
Speaker 1: we've never seen anything like this. We've never seen a
Speaker 1: player polarizes, you know, as phil Um losing sponsors over comments.
Speaker 1: We we haven't seen that. We've seen you know, some
Speaker 1: guys lose sponsorships over things, So we haven't seen any
Speaker 1: thing like that yet. We're we've never seen where a
Speaker 1: decision a guy can make, the worry he's gonna play,
Speaker 1: could affect his off course endorsement, earning opportunities, and so
Speaker 1: all that stuff to be weighed in. Um, but nobody knows, right,
Speaker 1: And you know I've said all along that at the
Speaker 1: PGA Tour, at the first announcement of the Live Golf
Speaker 1: or you know, the premier had said, look, guys, we're
Speaker 1: we've been doing us a long time. We've give billions
Speaker 1: and charity, we've we've provided a great opportunity to make
Speaker 1: a living with a great retirement plan. You know, we'd
Speaker 1: really like you to play with us. We've done it,
Speaker 1: you know, we provide great courses and all these things,
Speaker 1: and left it at that. I would have said, hey, bravo,
Speaker 1: here we go. Um. The minute that they kind of
Speaker 1: started finding money, just kind of try to compete with money. UM,
Speaker 1: open my eyes that Wait a minute. You know, I
Speaker 1: thought they'd probably be doing everything that they should have done.
Speaker 1: And did they think that? And all of a sudden
Speaker 1: did they think they weren't? Um? And that's the first
Speaker 1: time that I went like that kind of made me think.
Speaker 1: I've always thought the tour been great. I was representing
Speaker 1: golfers to where if you were if you made a
Speaker 1: million dollars in a year old course. I mean, I
Speaker 1: think Curtis Strange did it right and it was an
Speaker 1: amazing thing. And now guys you've never heard of and
Speaker 1: couldn't spot if they were signed make more than a million,
Speaker 1: so credible opportunity. Mat kind of just get you at
Speaker 1: one point real quick, because I want to make sure
Speaker 1: that our listeners understood it. Are you saying that are
Speaker 1: in your view based on what you just said, did
Speaker 1: Monaghan miscalculate by raising the stakes and trying to match
Speaker 1: the Saudis with money as an opening salvo. If you
Speaker 1: had been his concicularity, would you have not recommended that?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have recommended it. And again, I don't want
Speaker 1: to just I don't want to question. Jay's a great
Speaker 1: friend and really good at what he does. But now
Speaker 1: I just I just always thought the tour is doing
Speaker 1: a great job. I've watched the purses rise amazing levels.
Speaker 1: And I know what other things they provide, you know,
Speaker 1: little things you don't know about courtesy cars, stake care.
Speaker 1: The retirement plan is off the charts. Um. The golf
Speaker 1: course is the set up in the golf course, of
Speaker 1: the rules officials. All of things that done has gotten
Speaker 1: better since I've busines business. Uh, it's every year. Um.
Speaker 1: If they had not flinched, I don't I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: thought twice about it. I just said, well, you know,
Speaker 1: competition people got to do what they gotta do. The
Speaker 1: minute they said, wait a minute, and here's what we're
Speaker 1: gonna do. We're gonna do this, it kind of made
Speaker 1: me think that they were unsure if they were doing everything.
Speaker 1: And that's our criticism, and just that's the way I
Speaker 1: took it. Well, and even just to put a finer point,
Speaker 1: on that. I mean, basically, the players are getting a
Speaker 1: hundred million dollars more this year than they were last
Speaker 1: year that they bumped up the p I P the
Speaker 1: players Championship purs they institute a couple of new bonus programs. Uh,
Speaker 1: they're twenty million dollars. Overall, purses went up substantially. So
Speaker 1: it's true you would think the players would have been overjoyed.
Speaker 1: Look at all this money. They turn the spigot on,
Speaker 1: But then, well, why were they not giving it to
Speaker 1: us in the first place? And that's been a bedrock
Speaker 1: complaint from a lot of the players, is there's not
Speaker 1: the transparency. They want to know where is the money
Speaker 1: going and why are we not getting more of it?
Speaker 1: And so, so it's your point, mag because like I'm
Speaker 1: sure Jay moonha thought one was going to be ecstatic, like,
Speaker 1: here's a hundred million dollars for you guys to play for.
Speaker 1: But it did in some ways support the case of
Speaker 1: Phil and others who have been saying, listen, where is
Speaker 1: the money going? Opening the books? We need to see
Speaker 1: the books and so but in that scenario, it feels
Speaker 1: like like the commissioner was kind of damned if if
Speaker 1: he does and damn age, he does it because he's
Speaker 1: got to He's got to compete somehow, right. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the PGA Tour is doing a great job competing.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen anything that they have to change, you know.
Speaker 1: I I would have looked at I mean this again
Speaker 1: and go back to my personal opinion. I represent golfers
Speaker 1: that you know, we're just coming out of college all
Speaker 1: way up to guys that are on the Champions Tour.
Speaker 1: And the biggest concern I have now is when the
Speaker 1: Hogan Tour came out in the late eighties or early nineties, UM,
Speaker 1: and the last storty some years, the amount of competitive
Speaker 1: golfers in the world now compared to them is playing opportunities.
Speaker 1: I would rather have that extra money placed onto maybe
Speaker 1: make the corner for a little more viable financially. And
Speaker 1: then I would have even said, kind of like baseball,
Speaker 1: I would have come up with a you know, a
Speaker 1: double a another league. UM, rushing kids, I guess I
Speaker 1: get the PGA Tour. You rushing kids out of college
Speaker 1: on the tour, UM giving them opportunities based on what
Speaker 1: they do an amateur golf. UM. I would rather Why
Speaker 1: wouldn't you just have a rookie league. Why wouldn't you
Speaker 1: just have another twenty series instead of a cute school twenty.
Speaker 1: You know, if you've got the money to do that
Speaker 1: then and then provide all the news stars a chance
Speaker 1: to come out people. I don't think people realize the
Speaker 1: expense of playing for professional golf. I mean it's a
Speaker 1: it's an eight hundred thousand dollar year right out of
Speaker 1: the bat um. You know, the you know the travel.
Speaker 1: And I'll give an example. You know, a kid comes
Speaker 1: out of college in June and he can't do anything.
Speaker 1: I mean, he can get some spots or maybe, but
Speaker 1: essentially he's got to go to HU school and I
Speaker 1: think that's fifty. Um. You've got to go play three
Speaker 1: stages of Q school at different times, hoping you don't
Speaker 1: get a stomach bug at the wrong time, hoping that
Speaker 1: you know, things go well. And you do that, and
Speaker 1: now you can get on the corn Ferry Tour and
Speaker 1: now you're not gonna make money. I mean you're gonna
Speaker 1: spend a lot of money and then you can you
Speaker 1: can work your way onto the PGA Tour. And you know,
Speaker 1: these kids have been spending money since they're ten years old.
Speaker 1: Tigers old investing money, um, and how many good players
Speaker 1: run out of money before they can have a chance
Speaker 1: to compete. That's the big thing for my my position,
Speaker 1: and so you know, to live golf. There's playing opportunities
Speaker 1: for young people. Hey, I'm fine if there's playing opportunities
Speaker 1: on Asian Tour, European Tour. I'm looking for the young
Speaker 1: guys coming up. And I would be the same if
Speaker 1: I was a tour I would be looking at my
Speaker 1: future stars along with my current stars. Mac. You you've
Speaker 1: told us all of me both. I'm sure when we've
Speaker 1: gotten together that your job often is holding the hand
Speaker 1: of the father of the of the young player who
Speaker 1: is about to turn pro. And the question is always
Speaker 1: the same. You know, they're talking to you, and they're
Speaker 1: talking to this guy and that guy. What can you
Speaker 1: guarantee my son? And the short answer is nothing. But
Speaker 1: let's say let's say some kid is the runner up
Speaker 1: in the in the US a M. Now he's a name,
Speaker 1: he's gonna play, he's just played his way into the Masters,
Speaker 1: and that kids getting recruited by liv Golf. Here's a
Speaker 1: guaranteed million your first year playing professional, and probably a
Speaker 1: lot more than that. Versus the crapshoot of what you
Speaker 1: just described. What are you going to advise to that kid?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, um, I mean, I'm you know, I have
Speaker 1: to provide opportunities. That's my job is to provide opportunities.
Speaker 1: I don't make decisions for players, but i'd have to
Speaker 1: lay it out. I said, here's a point a Um,
Speaker 1: being a runner up in US Amateur, you're probably going
Speaker 1: to get a few starts on the PGA Tour. Okay um.
Speaker 1: And and then you know you've got to get ready
Speaker 1: to perform. So you're gonna be playing in some you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna use the word g Pro, which is a
Speaker 1: nice little mini tour series and a friend of mine runs,
Speaker 1: and you know you're gonna be playing some pretty rough
Speaker 1: golf courses, stand some pretty rough neighborhoods. And then we're
Speaker 1: gonna go to Q school for three three year of
Speaker 1: her sections to go play the corner farry for another year. Um,
Speaker 1: if you finished last in this event, in every event,
Speaker 1: you're gonna make a million dollars. I mean, whether I
Speaker 1: give them advice or not, I know what they're gonna do.
Speaker 1: There's not one person that's gonna knock go um and
Speaker 1: you could. I don't know how you could blame them. Um.
Speaker 1: I mean, really, people don't realize how many more good
Speaker 1: players there are there. It used to be. I mean
Speaker 1: I went and watch the SEC's at Island here. They
Speaker 1: used to be there'd be one or two players on
Speaker 1: a college team, but you would look at and say, man,
Speaker 1: that guy's got it. And now every guy on that range,
Speaker 1: all five look like they can play the tour, swings, power,
Speaker 1: all these things and there, and you just multiply that
Speaker 1: by the world. Where are these guys playing golf? Um?
Speaker 1: So I don't know, I know, I just I do
Speaker 1: you know you? I use baseball analogies a lot. The
Speaker 1: major leagues don't sign a kid out of college and say, hey,
Speaker 1: you're not ready for Triple A and you're not ready
Speaker 1: for the majors, so go find you kind of a
Speaker 1: sandlot league to go play in and get prepared. Maybe
Speaker 1: come back next year. I mean they send them the
Speaker 1: rookie ball and then they send them to single A,
Speaker 1: Double A. I mean, you take that talent and you
Speaker 1: let it mature. But I mean it is a it's
Speaker 1: it's a crapshoot getting out there. On this tour. I
Speaker 1: mean it's tough. And again people say, well, if you're
Speaker 1: good enough, you'll get there. And and I'll just add
Speaker 1: one thing, if you're good enough and have enough money,
Speaker 1: you'll get there. But everybody doesn't have two or three
Speaker 1: or four dollars to sustain that livelihood. And so that's
Speaker 1: that's what I would love. I would if you said, hey,
Speaker 1: what would rob Golf do for me? Hey? Man, if
Speaker 1: they're going to build a you know, a tour for
Speaker 1: people to play until they can, you know, build their
Speaker 1: way up to the PGA Tour, how could I argue
Speaker 1: with that? Well? I was just gonna ask, I mean,
Speaker 1: what is the role of say, the PGA Tour or
Speaker 1: any or the European Tour or any of these these
Speaker 1: established big league circuits. Do they have an obligation and
Speaker 1: a duty to to create a system for the young players? Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't think it's an obligation. I would think it
Speaker 1: would be a necessity in order to have future stars. Um,
Speaker 1: I mean you would want to. I mean three weeks
Speaker 1: ACU school certainly doesn't prove anything. I represented Bratt Senecker.
Speaker 1: I don't think he made it through a second stage
Speaker 1: he worked his way through Monday qualifiers, got through you know,
Speaker 1: I think it was the web dot com at the time,
Speaker 1: and moved his way up. Um, if the current system
Speaker 1: was in state when Ricky Fowler turned pro, his first
Speaker 1: year would have been on the corner for you lost
Speaker 1: a whole year Ricky Fowler, and who would have want
Speaker 1: I mean, he was on the Ryder Cup. I think
Speaker 1: kind of like as a rookie. UM. So, I don't
Speaker 1: think they have a responsibility to do anything except put
Speaker 1: on their events and say, you know, whoever qualifies gets
Speaker 1: in here. But I would think from their their point,
Speaker 1: it would be a necessity to do it to make
Speaker 1: sure that we capture all the young talent. And that's
Speaker 1: always been my thought process on you know, the Live
Speaker 1: Golf Tour. You know, I looked at it as like,
Speaker 1: I mean, if they take the older guys, and I
Speaker 1: mean they choose to play, it's great, But what if
Speaker 1: they decided to go after the top twenty kids coming
Speaker 1: out of college everything. I mean not you know, if
Speaker 1: they built a tour underneath Live Tour. I'm not saying,
Speaker 1: but that would that would be alarming to me if
Speaker 1: I was running an organization. Yeah, that's interesting. Uh. You know,
Speaker 1: Michael and I have spent a lot of time talking
Speaker 1: and thinking and writing about some some of the complicated
Speaker 1: issues around this emergence of of of the Saudi Tour,
Speaker 1: and um, you know, Michael just dropped a huge story
Speaker 1: that they got that brings in everyone from Donald Trump
Speaker 1: to Greg Norman to Phil Nicholson and Jack Nicholas and
Speaker 1: everyone's had to to wrestle with us on some level.
Speaker 1: But you you talked to a lot of players. I mean,
Speaker 1: I feel like that maybe the players aren't as tortured
Speaker 1: about this like their professional golfers. By definition, they played
Speaker 1: golf for money and they're gonna go where the money
Speaker 1: is and where the opportunity is. And am I right
Speaker 1: about that? That that maybe taking the broad stroke of
Speaker 1: professional golf. They just they don't really see what what
Speaker 1: all the controversies about it. I mean, we you know,
Speaker 1: if they call it the salary Tour, I mean that's
Speaker 1: kind of been highlighted a lot. I know, I've never
Speaker 1: had a golfer asked me, I'm going to do this,
Speaker 1: but where is the money coming from? I don't know
Speaker 1: if I've ever I'm not going to be responsible for
Speaker 1: this money's coming from wherever. I mean, if you you know,
Speaker 1: if you're certain, people may say I don't like gambling,
Speaker 1: but you know, casino offers enough money they'll go. Now
Speaker 1: they grow up playing looking to play for money. And
Speaker 1: you know, and and this so Mady sound bad. But
Speaker 1: most people kids sitting around in the pudding Green that
Speaker 1: are pretending to win a tournament. It's probably the Masters,
Speaker 1: maybe the US Open, maybe the British, maybe the PGA.
Speaker 1: They're not sitting around saying I'm gonna win the whatever,
Speaker 1: Just name a tournament, right, yeah, St Jude. Now, do
Speaker 1: they want to get wealthy playing golf, Yes, But I
Speaker 1: think everybody's perspective of the guys that I talked to,
Speaker 1: the perspective all changes with how much money they have
Speaker 1: in the bank. I mean, if the guy's got fifty
Speaker 1: million in the bank, he can afford to say, you know,
Speaker 1: I'm doing this. And if a guy's got you know,
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand in the bank, he's thirty six years old,
Speaker 1: his putting strokes going a little bit, he's got enough
Speaker 1: name power to maybe do something, He's going to go
Speaker 1: the other way. It's going to be driven by financials
Speaker 1: um and I hate it in the sense that it's
Speaker 1: going to look at look, they would be looked at
Speaker 1: or ostracized and maybe lose corporate endorsements. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: a little supprised to hear you say that, Mac, because
Speaker 1: I think that the kid, the kid gets into golf
Speaker 1: because you know, like the kid runs for a student
Speaker 1: government in high school. They want the stature, They want,
Speaker 1: you know, the better date. Uh, they want people to
Speaker 1: look at It's like you know your client and and uh,
Speaker 1: you know golfer that we all love, Lucas Clever. What
Speaker 1: was the greatest moment about winning the US Open? It
Speaker 1: was Wednesday of Hartford. Everybody on the practice he is
Speaker 1: looking at him different. Um. So I would have thought
Speaker 1: that that may be as a as a manager in
Speaker 1: an agent, someone who's developing young talent, you can say
Speaker 1: to the kid, what do you really want your life?
Speaker 1: Do you want to show that you can be the
Speaker 1: field of a hundred forty four other guys or do
Speaker 1: you want to just or you just want to grab money?
Speaker 1: And knowing you as I do, Mac, I know where
Speaker 1: I know where your own uh enthuism enthusism with life.
Speaker 1: But I imagine in some sense it's in conflict right now.
Speaker 1: It's changed over the years. Yeah, I want to sound
Speaker 1: justin Leonard out of Texas and money four. I mean,
Speaker 1: I can tell you I don't think he ever mentioned money.
Speaker 1: He wanted to beat people. Um, get me in tournaments.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go beat people, and he did did a
Speaker 1: great job of it. Uh. In the last several years,
Speaker 1: money has turned into the only thing guys. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's how they describe people. Now. Have you met so
Speaker 1: and so, Man, he's loaded, he's a billionaire. I hear
Speaker 1: it all the time and and I always look at
Speaker 1: him like, yeah, but I know that guy and he's
Speaker 1: not happy. You know. The happiest people I know are
Speaker 1: what people doing what they love to do and to
Speaker 1: keep doing it. I mean, why do you see these
Speaker 1: golfers I'm on the Champions Tour. Bernard Longer can't need money,
Speaker 1: means he can't mean money and he can where he
Speaker 1: spend it too much. But I mean he likes to
Speaker 1: beat people. And you go out and watch the guy's
Speaker 1: Dicky Pritt or I mean, just look at these guys
Speaker 1: are they're aging, but they have that fire and you know,
Speaker 1: I I watched Daviss Love hit balls on the reins
Speaker 1: the other day, trying to trying to be able to
Speaker 1: go to the p G. A uh, I mean it's
Speaker 1: still there. That's what. That's what's great about golf. It
Speaker 1: never ends. And so no, it's changed in the younger
Speaker 1: The younger folks now come out. How much money can
Speaker 1: I get? How many endorsements can I get? Um, you
Speaker 1: know they see these private Jeck commercials, you know they
Speaker 1: want to fly private. I mean, it's it's changed a
Speaker 1: ton and again, I it's not my job to judge them,
Speaker 1: but I just you know, I've seen the rise and
Speaker 1: fall of golf. Um. You know, this is not forever
Speaker 1: career for everybody. This isn't it's a there's a short
Speaker 1: window to go make your money. Everybody thinks. Everybody thinks
Speaker 1: everyone's a Jim Furric or Fred. You know, there's there's
Speaker 1: a lot of names we could just start popping off
Speaker 1: and you'll go, gosh, what happened to him? What happened
Speaker 1: to him? Whether it was through injury or you know ability.
Speaker 1: You know, Justin Leonard is a great story. You know
Speaker 1: they didn't tiger proof golf courses in early two thousands,
Speaker 1: say Justin Leonard proof them. Um, I mean that, you know,
Speaker 1: Justin Leonard would be the best players ever play if
Speaker 1: he hit it thirty yards for him. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: how good a golfery was. And since distance became, you know,
Speaker 1: like it's kind of like the Tour I mean trying
Speaker 1: to when they tried to keep Tiger from winning golf terments,
Speaker 1: and that was what they were saying. By lengthening golf courses,
Speaker 1: they were really taking a lot of people that could
Speaker 1: play golf out of the game. Um, you don't you
Speaker 1: know so? Um yeah, I look, money is not gonna
Speaker 1: make you happy. We all know it. I try to.
Speaker 1: You know, you can tell a kid that. But I
Speaker 1: also have a kid that says, you know, I you know,
Speaker 1: I want to make I want to make money. I
Speaker 1: want to fly on that jets Mac. When you when
Speaker 1: you look at amateur talent and everybody looks good on
Speaker 1: the range, and everyone can pitch the ball and put
Speaker 1: the ball. They often shoot sixties six on any given day,
Speaker 1: how do you decide who to go after? O God?
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, I mean after you meet with
Speaker 1: them and stuff and you watch them play, you can
Speaker 1: start seeing little differences and how they react to the game, Um,
Speaker 1: how calm they are within the game, and UM, I
Speaker 1: always look you know, I always listen to the golf
Speaker 1: ball first, you know, the sound that makes, because there's
Speaker 1: some people can fake it. Um. But then you kind
Speaker 1: of you know, I've had to change over time because
Speaker 1: you've gotta look at power. You've gotta look at guys
Speaker 1: that hit at three yards. You can't just look at
Speaker 1: you know, guy that can chip and put um. And
Speaker 1: then after that it's more about the relationship with the
Speaker 1: guy because you know you're gonna be close to him
Speaker 1: for a long time and so you know, there's no
Speaker 1: factors that you you can't look inside their heart and
Speaker 1: say can they handle golf at a professional level. I
Speaker 1: used to say there's a difference between playing God professionally
Speaker 1: and being a God professional. You know, it's being a
Speaker 1: God professional means you're gonna travel a lot. Know, it's
Speaker 1: not glamorous. You're gonna tee off at seven in the
Speaker 1: morning in your first PGA Tour event and no one
Speaker 1: accept your parents and grandparents are watching me. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be just like a junior event. You know, it's not
Speaker 1: gonna be crowds and and the hotels are not that
Speaker 1: great and you're not and you're gonna be alone a lot.
Speaker 1: You know, it's almost solitary confinement at times. Um and
Speaker 1: there's those moments of exhilaration of winning an event, but
Speaker 1: you know, after a few days it's gone, you know.
Speaker 1: And and they've never played this college players, never played
Speaker 1: the amount of golf to the tour player place, and
Speaker 1: can they handle that? You just don't know. So you know,
Speaker 1: everybody can say, well, I can tell you this guy
Speaker 1: is gonna win. Obviously you got to look at the
Speaker 1: earlier records. But for every guy that's won a lot
Speaker 1: of tournaments that comes out with all the fanfare, there's
Speaker 1: a David Gossip and uh and Hank Kenney. There's people
Speaker 1: just don't remember those guys that had all the promise
Speaker 1: in the records. So there's no way of knowing. And
Speaker 1: I've always said that a lot of it has to
Speaker 1: do lunch, stayed, term, pro how they're managed and people,
Speaker 1: you know, people say that's not true, but I think
Speaker 1: you know, it takes a lot to get them up
Speaker 1: and going to get out there. So how do I
Speaker 1: pick them? I mean, you can't. You can't say. It's like,
Speaker 1: how do you, judge Sunset, I covered David Gosset's US
Speaker 1: amateur victory at Pebble Beach and half the gallery where
Speaker 1: people in the agenting business. And and then years later
Speaker 1: when when he fell into the abyss, I went to,
Speaker 1: you know, try to unravel this mystery. The saddest thing
Speaker 1: I've seen in golf was David Gossipy washed out at
Speaker 1: Q schools like second stage, and as you know, those
Speaker 1: are such tents rounds. You finally get to the end,
Speaker 1: and whether you make or you don't, everybody's cutting loose
Speaker 1: and the beer is flowing. People are crying, people are hugging,
Speaker 1: and gossip went to the range to hit balls and
Speaker 1: he was alone out there. They've already taken the flags
Speaker 1: out of the rains. They couldn't even find the balls,
Speaker 1: like no one ever hits golf balls after the last
Speaker 1: round at school. But that he was on such a
Speaker 1: quest and he never did find it. And if I'll
Speaker 1: never forget that, the scramble to find a box of
Speaker 1: you know, a bucket of balls was was wild. But
Speaker 1: it's tough out there. It's tough, no, but it's tough
Speaker 1: out there. I mean, like I said, everybody can say
Speaker 1: you can pick talent and looking backwards, I can tell
Speaker 1: you I did a good job of this and that
Speaker 1: the hell, but now you can't. You can't. You just
Speaker 1: can't find out who can handle all the stuff that's
Speaker 1: not progole. It's just and that's where a lot of
Speaker 1: success comes. And sometimes, you know, even the kids that
Speaker 1: come out and sign these huge contracts and they get
Speaker 1: a bunch of money, sometimes money can drown out their
Speaker 1: talent as much as not having enough money. You know,
Speaker 1: they can they all they ever wanted was money, and
Speaker 1: they get a million dollars in a bank and they
Speaker 1: think they've got money for life. And there twenty three
Speaker 1: years old, and we all know that's not gonna last
Speaker 1: that long, right, Um So yeah, it's it's it's difficult,
Speaker 1: you know, everybody. I tell every kid, I say, look
Speaker 1: at I've said, if you can't do anything else but
Speaker 1: play pro golfer living, go do it. But why would
Speaker 1: you want to be a great amateur and go in
Speaker 1: US amateurs and playing Walker Cup teams and playing the Masters?
Speaker 1: And I say that joke only because I know they're
Speaker 1: going to go try to chase the best competition in
Speaker 1: the world. Um, I don't know, when the last time
Speaker 1: someone was really really good at state amateur, I mean
Speaker 1: that it just immediately jumped in. But and that's the
Speaker 1: other thing. These kids when they're great, man, I mean,
Speaker 1: there are slew of these agents out following them around
Speaker 1: and you know, wooing them and getting them to come
Speaker 1: and and and that's and while they're on top, they're
Speaker 1: talked to a lot. But when when they go when
Speaker 1: they're not playing well, they don't. They don't hear much anymore. Unfortunately.
Speaker 1: I kind of want to go back to the live
Speaker 1: of golf stuff because your perspective is interesting if you
Speaker 1: think of it in the context of it's just more opportunities,
Speaker 1: it's more feeder systems. It just creates. It helps to
Speaker 1: alleviate this this this bottleneck we have at professional golf
Speaker 1: where there's all these guys who are fighting for us spot.
Speaker 1: And uh, I don't know that there's been so much
Speaker 1: talk about what's our moral qualms and and the other issues.
Speaker 1: But is it is it a good thing? Like if
Speaker 1: if we can, if we can just set aside the money,
Speaker 1: let's pretend that live golf is being funded by you know,
Speaker 1: Australian interests or something, and whatever it might be, like,
Speaker 1: how could this benefit the ecosystem professional golf? I mean
Speaker 1: it's more chances to play. I mean it's it's quite simple.
Speaker 1: It's opportunities. You. I can never get into a fight
Speaker 1: about money. I mean where the money came from. I
Speaker 1: could never pull that off. I mean it's just I
Speaker 1: think it's futile to do it. But any if I have,
Speaker 1: I had a client that any olgatory, one of the
Speaker 1: US amateur and he's a conditional status player on the
Speaker 1: Corn Farry Tour. And you know, he goes and money qualifies.
Speaker 1: People realized, realize that's a fifteen or two thousand dollar endeavor.
Speaker 1: You don't make it. I think there's eight spots or
Speaker 1: maybe two people playing, and I mean two hundred people
Speaker 1: that can play, and and so it doesn't get through.
Speaker 1: And now he's got to go play many Tour event.
Speaker 1: G pro is kind of problem around here. And um
Speaker 1: so now he's got to go play the g Tour
Speaker 1: event to stay competitive, keep his edge. Um there's another
Speaker 1: thousand dollar entry fee to win fifteen thousand. And I
Speaker 1: always urge people go watch a g pro event. You
Speaker 1: want to go see see some things. I mean, they
Speaker 1: got there's fifty people in that field that can play
Speaker 1: on tour and they're out there and carts with nobody watching,
Speaker 1: with two rules officials for the whole event, and how
Speaker 1: difficult it is to get in the lineup, to get
Speaker 1: there right, and to get to this tour. And if if,
Speaker 1: if there was this g Pro event, they pay a
Speaker 1: thousand a week to play and not a very great
Speaker 1: golf course as a usual. And so if you're telling
Speaker 1: me there was another tour, I don't care. I didn't ask.
Speaker 1: I don't know where the g Pro money comes from.
Speaker 1: I don't know where any of these many. But I
Speaker 1: need places for the guys to play in games. You
Speaker 1: just can only get so many balls, and and playing
Speaker 1: money games for your friends won't do it. You need
Speaker 1: him in competitive golf. And so if there were nine
Speaker 1: more tours that opened up in America that they could
Speaker 1: go play golf competitively, you know, professionally, I wouldn't ask
Speaker 1: where the money come from. I'm just like, let's get
Speaker 1: them there and start playing. Mac. You're sort of a
Speaker 1: golfing joy interrupt you, Uh, go home? I mean I
Speaker 1: am really curious for Max. Take if if you how
Speaker 1: are you thinks it's going to play out with the
Speaker 1: tour releases and if he thinks any players are going
Speaker 1: to defy the tour and go over to that first
Speaker 1: London event. I mean that's a big question and professional
Speaker 1: golf right now. Yeah, man, I don't know. I haven't.
Speaker 1: I don't have anybody involved in it. Um, I don't.
Speaker 1: I didn't have a player asked for release. I think
Speaker 1: there's gonna be something that I really do. I think
Speaker 1: there's gonna be some guys that go ahead and play. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I I don't know. Again, I'm not an attorney,
Speaker 1: so I can't tell you how this is gonna Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do know if the lawsuit happens, that the lawyers
Speaker 1: are gonna win. I know that. Um, but I don't
Speaker 1: I think people. I think there's gonna be some players
Speaker 1: are gonna go. I really do, And UM, I don't
Speaker 1: know what the rights are. You know. I've always known
Speaker 1: that the PGA Tour, you play fifteen events and if
Speaker 1: you want to play somewhere else, you right for a release.
Speaker 1: I've never had in my past. I've never had the
Speaker 1: tour turned down release for a player to go play
Speaker 1: Chinici Crowns in Japan They've always been accommodating. And sometimes
Speaker 1: they'll say, well, you know, we needed to play this
Speaker 1: event in the next sewn years, and you go, okay, great,
Speaker 1: that's fine. That's all I mean to me. That's always
Speaker 1: been fair and they've always been good about it. I
Speaker 1: don't know that they've ever expected thirty two people to
Speaker 1: send in a release to go play in Saudi Arabia,
Speaker 1: and I was I mean, honestly, I was shocked that
Speaker 1: they let them do that. Um. Now they're not giving
Speaker 1: anybody one to play in London, So I'm assuming they're
Speaker 1: taking essentially a firm stand. They must feel like their
Speaker 1: position is great. And but I do think some guys
Speaker 1: are going I really do, and I'm going there. Well,
Speaker 1: we were on the same page there and Mac, I
Speaker 1: think one of your great skills is, uh, you're sort
Speaker 1: of a golfing futurist. Year one is probably gonna be
Speaker 1: kind of rougher live. Um, but where do you see
Speaker 1: it going? In other words, in year two and year three?
Speaker 1: Can it become a real competing tour? Can I get
Speaker 1: a network deal? Is it something that's going to catch
Speaker 1: on not just the United States but in other parts
Speaker 1: of the world. Do you think it's gonna ultimately thrive? Wow,
Speaker 1: I'm I don't know. I'm split on it. I think
Speaker 1: if they're committed and they can fund it for long enough,
Speaker 1: if they can stay in the game. UM yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean there's been players coming off of you know, the
Speaker 1: South African Tour. There's been players come off I mean yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean they they just formed another tour. I think
Speaker 1: it can thrive. When you say compare editive, I mean
Speaker 1: the PGA Tour is the most competitive tour and I
Speaker 1: don't think it will. I don't think that will change regardless.
Speaker 1: But the different format, the shotgun start, the fifty four holes,
Speaker 1: the team play. Um, I mean is there a sect?
Speaker 1: I mean, I I people that watch golf where I am,
Speaker 1: we will watch any golf. I mean, I will watch anything.
Speaker 1: I won't watch football players play golf. I won't watch.
Speaker 1: But if you golfers, I you know, I love the LPG.
Speaker 1: I love the one because I can relate more of
Speaker 1: the distances. I can relate more, you know, to what
Speaker 1: they're doing, probably than I can do these guys. You know,
Speaker 1: somebody asked me, I was like, why are you trying
Speaker 1: to hit so far? You don't watch a basketball game,
Speaker 1: try to go dunk. I mean, what is this? I
Speaker 1: mean golfers chasing distance amateurs. I mean, just try to
Speaker 1: find the ball. And it's a good start. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I think you could put golf on that that. I mean,
Speaker 1: let's face it, not every tournament the tour puts on
Speaker 1: is super competitive. I mean there's a there's tournaments that
Speaker 1: you might not recognize but ten people in the field
Speaker 1: because you know it's some small, short field or opposite
Speaker 1: field event. But you know, at the British Open, I've
Speaker 1: always been watching I don't know, I can't remember with
Speaker 1: the opposite one with the barber saw. You know, I
Speaker 1: watched it from the British Open. I would watch that
Speaker 1: tournament because we're golfers. We want to watch golf. And
Speaker 1: I love a great story. Who's this kid? Where did
Speaker 1: he come from? He's gonna win his first event, his
Speaker 1: wife said in the gallery. So I think I think
Speaker 1: if they stick with it and they keep producing tournaments
Speaker 1: and they I think, I think, like every other tour,
Speaker 1: they'll survived if they have the funding. They have the funding,
Speaker 1: and you know, imagine Robert Garry is yeah, imagine Robert
Speaker 1: Gris gets on a heater, or he wins two events
Speaker 1: and has a couple of their top tens, he's made
Speaker 1: fifteen or twenty million dollars, And if I'm you know,
Speaker 1: a mid level tour player, I'm gonna be like, what
Speaker 1: the hell Like? I think the insidious thing about sports
Speaker 1: watching is that it works. And a year two, I
Speaker 1: think you'll get more play airs, and year three you'll
Speaker 1: get even more players because we can only we can
Speaker 1: only express our moral outrage so many times. I think
Speaker 1: it's tedious that he just everyone just kind of moves on.
Speaker 1: And that's that's how you buy acceptance in these things,
Speaker 1: and that's just the reality of situations. So I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, if they're if they're committed to five years,
Speaker 1: and I don't know why they wouldn't be at this point,
Speaker 1: I think they'll get the wind up with a lot
Speaker 1: of good players. I mean, look, there's I look, I
Speaker 1: can say I could go out, I could go find
Speaker 1: them forty eight guys right now that don't have any
Speaker 1: status that are really good golfers, I mean really good
Speaker 1: golfers to go play. I could be easy and and
Speaker 1: and then what happens. I don't know if in the
Speaker 1: sense that a lot of your right, A lot of
Speaker 1: the stuff is being talked about is just continuing about
Speaker 1: the sport watching or the human rights and you know
Speaker 1: that's I mean, it just it kind of blends in
Speaker 1: with all the things going on in US in life
Speaker 1: and we have you know, daily we have mass shootings
Speaker 1: in America. I mean daily we have things. I mean
Speaker 1: we have America has the death penalty. I mean, or
Speaker 1: you know, are you arguing about all these executing people?
Speaker 1: I mean, we execute people. So it just it finally
Speaker 1: gets into what what are we really argued about. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you want to talk about you know, you know,
Speaker 1: Native Americans would probably tell you and I talked to
Speaker 1: Michael about this, and the Native Americans would probably tell
Speaker 1: you that the US at one point didn't have a great,
Speaker 1: great record on human rights. Um My dad used to
Speaker 1: use this statement. He said, you know, every every center
Speaker 1: has a future and everything has a past. I don't know,
Speaker 1: just it just comes a time when I think what
Speaker 1: we all to focus on is there's an opportunity to
Speaker 1: play golf. If that the tour by their billows say
Speaker 1: you can't play both, then that's something that they have
Speaker 1: to figure out. But I think for a golfer to be,
Speaker 1: you know, just killed for going over and playing golf,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know why they would want
Speaker 1: to push somebody at that level. And again, as I
Speaker 1: go back to there's corporate endorsements. How the corporations handle
Speaker 1: you know, how the corporations handle this? Do they? You know,
Speaker 1: did Phil lose those deals because of what he said
Speaker 1: or because he was going to go play to live
Speaker 1: golf to her? I don't know, but you know, you
Speaker 1: have to play into that suth so um and added up.
Speaker 1: But I got a feeling that if they're smart, these
Speaker 1: guys that are going, if they're going and getting paid
Speaker 1: to do it, they're probably already added that kind of
Speaker 1: in their in their thinking and their financial thinking. You
Speaker 1: have to yeah, And I don't know if I'm lucky
Speaker 1: or not. I don't have anybody that asked for least
Speaker 1: to play. It would have kind of been fun to
Speaker 1: know that, But um, I just I wonder, you know,
Speaker 1: like I said, I haven't talked to many people about
Speaker 1: it in my business. I don't, but I think that
Speaker 1: in two I think they're gonna let a few people
Speaker 1: rush the bunker, and once they find out what the
Speaker 1: results of that are. Then I think you're gonna see
Speaker 1: some guys drifting over Maximi. It's been lost here because
Speaker 1: there's such animosity towards not Phil as a person necessarily,
Speaker 1: but what Field represents, which I think is like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're biting the hand that feeds you, and people don't
Speaker 1: like that. Let's leave that aside for a minute and
Speaker 1: just think about some of the ideas that he's suggesting.
Speaker 1: Broadly speaking, not enough freedom for the players. But let's
Speaker 1: be even more specific than that. Some of the inventive
Speaker 1: concepts that that Live is talking about, Like you just said,
Speaker 1: fifty four holes, team play, shorter season. Could they be
Speaker 1: incorporating the PHA Tour? If you're if you were an
Speaker 1: advisor to the PHA Tour, what would you say? What
Speaker 1: would you say about some of these alternative forms of
Speaker 1: playing competitive golf? Man, I would love for him to
Speaker 1: mix it up. I would love not every Thursday through Friday,
Speaker 1: Thursday through Sunday be an eighteen hole stroke event. You know,
Speaker 1: it's it's same golf, different place, and there's only so
Speaker 1: much an announcer can say about it, you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: what if you had a four man team event for
Speaker 1: a week, and what if you did you know, I
Speaker 1: would love the match. I'd love the p G A
Speaker 1: this will this week. ILD have loved it to stay
Speaker 1: max play. I've always said that that would to keep
Speaker 1: in the holding of a game. I thought that would
Speaker 1: be that would really set the pg apart. And I
Speaker 1: know why they didn't, UM, And I know why they
Speaker 1: don't UM. But you know again, so let me ask
Speaker 1: this question. So the match play, and if I'm getting
Speaker 1: all track, tell me. But you know the WGC match
Speaker 1: play it used to be. You know, you show up
Speaker 1: in Tucson, there'd be sixty four players, and the next
Speaker 1: day you come and there'll be thirty two players, and
Speaker 1: the next day you come there be sixteen. Why did
Speaker 1: they Why did they change that format? Because Tiger kept
Speaker 1: getting beat in the first round? So why did they
Speaker 1: do that? Was it? It wasn't no other reason, I
Speaker 1: think to create more revenue dollars question. Okay, well that's fair,
Speaker 1: but that was the economic decision. Did I like it? No?
Speaker 1: I love the fact that you came in back on
Speaker 1: your plane, get out of here. I mean, you're gonna
Speaker 1: make some money. UM. But yes, go back to your question. Yes,
Speaker 1: could they incorporate. I mean, it would be wonderful. I
Speaker 1: love the tournament in New Orleans too. I never see
Speaker 1: guys laugh and have so much fun playing off. I
Speaker 1: mean you really, I mean everyone once in a while
Speaker 1: four ball is great or yes, why not? I mean what,
Speaker 1: why does it have to be? I mean it, I
Speaker 1: mean it's I mean, it goes a tour, season goes
Speaker 1: January one two. I don't know how long time used
Speaker 1: to be an off season. You know, I used to
Speaker 1: love you know, I remember when you know where you're
Speaker 1: gonna remember it was cold North Carolina where I lived.
Speaker 1: But Thanksgiving Day to watch the Skins game was one
Speaker 1: of the best days of my life. I hadn't seen
Speaker 1: gold playing, I hadn't seen warm weather. And here's the
Speaker 1: stars going at it. And I mean, you know, of course,
Speaker 1: I mean, Nicholas, you know they played, They're going to
Speaker 1: compete like they don't have a dime. I mean, they
Speaker 1: like to be each other. So absolutely, Michael, I think
Speaker 1: it would be wonderful at this resulting in some change
Speaker 1: of formats and different things. Well, why don't why don't
Speaker 1: we each give mac are our last best question here
Speaker 1: before we send them off? And I'll this will be
Speaker 1: mine at because actually my daughter has a friend who's
Speaker 1: a freshman in college, young guy who loves sports, and
Speaker 1: he's trying to figure out his life, and he decided
Speaker 1: he wants to be a sports agent. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: it's not as glamorous as it looks, you know, like
Speaker 1: you see them hugging behind on the eighteenth greene and
Speaker 1: when the victor walks off, or you know, they're in
Speaker 1: the locker room against favorite champagne. If you're an NBA
Speaker 1: agent and you're on the cover sports illustrator like Rich
Speaker 1: Paul and all that, Daidy Goodell, but what would you
Speaker 1: what would you say to a young person out there
Speaker 1: who dreams of of of the life that you've you've lived.
Speaker 1: I speak to sports marketing classes and stuff, and I
Speaker 1: always put on the board that everybody wants the job
Speaker 1: they think I have. Um, there's a little bit of
Speaker 1: glamor every once in a while. Um. But you know,
Speaker 1: I got in the business as a manager. You know,
Speaker 1: Vinny Giles hired me in in the early early nineties
Speaker 1: and he was a great golfering and we managed golfers.
Speaker 1: You know, they're not baseball players. They don't have a manager.
Speaker 1: They don't. They're the CEO of five and six employees.
Speaker 1: So I managed golf is it was never about money
Speaker 1: and it wasn't much money in the early nights in
Speaker 1: this game. I mean you know, um, but you you
Speaker 1: dealt with everything the player dealt with, you know, the
Speaker 1: travels and all these things, and and and you don't
Speaker 1: hear from these players when they're playing great. Usually what
Speaker 1: you hear from them is when something's wrong. And it's
Speaker 1: usually not between eight and five a day. It's it
Speaker 1: could be at ten o'clock on a Friday night at
Speaker 1: msticut you're on the West coast, you're out the dinner
Speaker 1: with your wife, and an hour phone call trying to
Speaker 1: figure out, all right, what's going wrong doing? You know?
Speaker 1: Is a caddy not doing his job? I mean so yeah,
Speaker 1: So what I tell you, if you love a twenty
Speaker 1: four hour, seven day a week job, if you love
Speaker 1: only talking to people that are probably not at the best, um,
Speaker 1: if you if you if you don't mind, my dad
Speaker 1: was a minister. So if you, if you don't mind
Speaker 1: that lifestyle, do it because I and I love it.
Speaker 1: I have young guys, the young kids. I love morning anything,
Speaker 1: working with Um. When yeah, those one a few times
Speaker 1: you get to be in the writer cuple him a
Speaker 1: celebratory thing. You know, it's kind of fun, but you
Speaker 1: know it's you. It's a service business. It's a service job.
Speaker 1: It's not you're not in the big board rooms negotiating
Speaker 1: billion dollar deals. I can tell you that. Uh, that
Speaker 1: was a good one. Alan Um mac young player comes
Speaker 1: to you. He looks like he's the whole package. But
Speaker 1: everybody that you're talking about like the whole package. And
Speaker 1: kid says you or the father says yea, what do
Speaker 1: I gotta do to get better? What do you say? Oh? Gosh? Um,
Speaker 1: I mean everybody's got a little difference. I mean most
Speaker 1: of these guys now, by the time they get out
Speaker 1: of college, they're physically fit. Um, they've got the clubs,
Speaker 1: they've got the UM. I think they're gonna have to
Speaker 1: learn how to play a lot of golf. Um, they're
Speaker 1: gonna have to learn to practice smarter than they've ever practiced,
Speaker 1: and they're gonna have to learn to rest, um, and
Speaker 1: to get better. It's just like anything else that we do. Um,
Speaker 1: you've got to do it a lot, and you've got
Speaker 1: to do it in a lot of different situations. And
Speaker 1: you know, when you realize the player, it's played seven
Speaker 1: hundreds sometimes on tour and he's won twenty one. He's
Speaker 1: in the Hall of Fame. He lost seven fifty times,
Speaker 1: So he better get used to losing. Um, and he's
Speaker 1: playing against some you know, going to be to get better,
Speaker 1: he's just gonna have to learn, Like under fire, that
Speaker 1: is really well said. Uh, that is really the whole thing,
Speaker 1: because like the whole Mountain glad wolfing of the temp
Speaker 1: that ten thousand hours they had the temp as you
Speaker 1: just said earlier, they got the tempt that I was
Speaker 1: ten thousand hours of college golf. But that tempt that
Speaker 1: I was a college golf that's worth about thirty minutes
Speaker 1: on corn Ferry golf. You gotta and if you can't
Speaker 1: play Cornferry golf, you better play in the New Mexico
Speaker 1: Open or any other state Open you can get into it.
Speaker 1: We send them crazy, and Mike and Neill realize, I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of these college teams when they show
Speaker 1: up for the SEC's, they're private jets are sitting over
Speaker 1: here on the runway. Um, they're they're sprinter vans are
Speaker 1: rolling up in the thing I mean these and they've
Speaker 1: got a coach. You know, these coaches they're doing my job.
Speaker 1: I mean they're managing them. I mean they're just with
Speaker 1: them every minute, and they're just you know, they're doing
Speaker 1: all this stuff. And then they release them, and I
Speaker 1: mean it's like there's no one standing there. I mean
Speaker 1: it's tough. Alan, can ask you a question? Yes? Please? Well,
Speaker 1: mac is obviously we can see, has had maybe the
Speaker 1: listeners cannot, but he seems to have an endorsement deal
Speaker 1: with Peacemakers for golf for golfers, golfers for pieces make
Speaker 1: war more after Pether than ever. Now right, who's paying
Speaker 1: our bills? Alan? Wow? Michael comes in the door at
Speaker 1: the collective and always thinking about is keeping the lights on?
Speaker 1: What a team player? Yes, I actually have a paper
Speaker 1: here to remind me I wasn't gonna give a little
Speaker 1: shot out to our friends at part points Golf. It's
Speaker 1: an ingenious little scoring app that we've all had fun
Speaker 1: experimenting with, and it's just a different way to to
Speaker 1: play the game as all other layer of strategy that
Speaker 1: I have to say, I don't I never get bored
Speaker 1: to playing golf, But if you're playing the same courses
Speaker 1: with the same guys every now and you just want
Speaker 1: to mix it up. And I would definitely encourage the
Speaker 1: listeners to check out Part Points. It's it's a really
Speaker 1: fun way to think your way around a golf course
Speaker 1: where you can almost invent your own tea boxes and
Speaker 1: how you can play the same holes over and over
Speaker 1: but in totally different ways and with different things at stake.
Speaker 1: So uh, it's it's really uh, it's it's a clever
Speaker 1: idea And the best thing about it is that Michael,
Speaker 1: you're you're so invested now in the success of our
Speaker 1: sponsor par Points because you're a well I think it's
Speaker 1: cool and you know, Mac, have you been to Sweden
Speaker 1: Scove I have not. I don't think you have. But
Speaker 1: the thing about Sweden scope is just nine holes and
Speaker 1: you can and you're and you're there all day, but
Speaker 1: you wind up doing what these far Points people are
Speaker 1: talking about. I think, in other words, you play the holes,
Speaker 1: you know what they do, But now playing from a
Speaker 1: different tier, I think maybe you're playing in the multiple
Speaker 1: holes on greens. I can't remember right now for some reason, um,
Speaker 1: but they've got some massive greens. But just invent this
Speaker 1: stuff for yourself. I think it's neat. I agree, well
Speaker 1: it's cool, Yeah, it really is. So this was another
Speaker 1: fire Drill podcast since this is the pg Championship, you know,
Speaker 1: this is the one week all year where the golf
Speaker 1: was kind of celebrates the club pro and and you
Speaker 1: can get a little more granular on the business side
Speaker 1: of golf. And so Mac Barnhardt, we appreciate your counsel
Speaker 1: and your your insight. You're gonna Mac were you Were
Speaker 1: you ever a clip pro? Mac? No, No, I got offered,
Speaker 1: but I thought, I think I got offered fourteen thousand
Speaker 1: dollars and I don't only have to work maybe seventy
Speaker 1: hours a week, and so I turned it down. That's
Speaker 1: for another podcast, I think definitely well. And and we
Speaker 1: should say for people who are tuning into like all
Speaker 1: these new offerings on the Firepit Collective, is that Mac,
Speaker 1: you are going to have a regular podcast presence with
Speaker 1: Coulton others gonna be the host and Michael Simms, who
Speaker 1: people know from the Bermuda Open and other cameos the
Speaker 1: PGA Tours now transitioning into kind of a life coach
Speaker 1: and a grew to help young players that you can
Speaker 1: learn from the things he's been through. So uh, you're
Speaker 1: gonna be You're gonna be a regular here. So uh anyway,
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me out. Yah's great. Alan, I've been we we've
Speaker 1: you know, Alan's meeting Mac has met Mac in the
Speaker 1: last few years and Mac and I go way back.
Speaker 1: And Mac is absolutely one of the most thoughtful, interesting,
Speaker 1: insightful people in the game. And as I mean, this
Speaker 1: is the tip of the iceberg because that we don't
Speaker 1: have the time for more. But uh, I know Mac
Speaker 1: has thought about the way the game and ways that
Speaker 1: very very few, if anybody has. So yeah, it's a
Speaker 1: pleasure to be on your team, Mac, and have you
Speaker 1: thank you for that meant thank you word to be
Speaker 1: on with YouTube guys, So thank you. Thanks Mac. All Right,
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it for this Fire Drill podcast. I'm
Speaker 1: coming in hot from Tulsa, Oklahoma side of the PG Championship.
Speaker 1: Michael and I will be uh, we'll be doing these
Speaker 1: all week long. Jeff Ogilvie is gonna make some cameos.
Speaker 1: We have we have a Lazarsias and Ryan French Monday
Speaker 1: Q Info coming in so A lot of different voices
Speaker 1: talking about what's gonna be one hell of a week
Speaker 1: here at the p g A. So thanks for listening
Speaker 1: and we'll do it again soon. Put another log on
Speaker 1: the fire. Nobody here is getting time