WEBVTT - Fire Drill 010: Show Me The Money 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:05.600 It's a crapshoot getting out there on this tour. I 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:07.760 mean it's tough. And again people say, well, if you're 0:00:07.800 --> 0:00:11.320 good enough, you'll get there. And and I'll just add 0:00:11.360 --> 0:00:13.520 one thing, if you're good enough and have enough money, 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:24.880 you'll get there. Put another log on the fire everybody 0:00:24.960 --> 0:00:32.960 hears get the time. Hello. This is Alan chip Knuck 0:00:33.120 --> 0:00:37.800 back for another Fire Drill podcast from Tulsa, Oklahoma. Delighted 0:00:37.840 --> 0:00:41.120 to be joined by Michael Bamberger, who just dropped his 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:43.200 first big story on fire Pick like the dot com 0:00:43.200 --> 0:00:45.640 and everyone's talking about it and it's just a taste 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:48.280 of what's to come. We're super excited about that. Michael, 0:00:48.360 --> 0:00:51.559 say hello, so they know your voice. Thank you very much. Indeed, 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:57.040 and we have with us another wingman, the Jerry McGuire 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.600 of the golf agenting business. Mac barne Art straight out 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.760 of Sea Island. Mac, thanks for being hey. Thanks a 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:07.720 great to be here. Hey, Michael, So we wanted to 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:11.400 talk about the business of professional golf at this very 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.000 chaotic moment, and Michael, I have touched on a little bit, 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:17.440 but we really value your insight Matt because you've you've 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.240 been in the boardrooms and the back rooms and you 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:22.880 know where a lot of the bodies are buried, mostly metaphorically, 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.800 but maybe not. And uh, how would you describe where 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.920 the game is right now with the battle between the tour, 0:01:30.080 --> 0:01:35.840 the Saudias and everything else that's swirling around. Well, I mean, obviously, 0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:38.600 we've never seen anything like this. We've never seen a 0:01:38.640 --> 0:01:44.160 player polarizes, you know, as phil Um losing sponsors over comments. 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:46.319 We we haven't seen that. We've seen you know, some 0:01:46.400 --> 0:01:49.840 guys lose sponsorships over things, So we haven't seen any 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:52.640 thing like that yet. We're we've never seen where a 0:01:52.760 --> 0:01:54.840 decision a guy can make, the worry he's gonna play, 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:59.000 could affect his off course endorsement, earning opportunities, and so 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:03.040 all that stuff to be weighed in. Um, but nobody knows, right, 0:02:03.280 --> 0:02:06.160 And you know I've said all along that at the 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:09.040 PGA Tour, at the first announcement of the Live Golf 0:02:09.120 --> 0:02:12.800 or you know, the premier had said, look, guys, we're 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:14.880 we've been doing us a long time. We've give billions 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:17.560 and charity, we've we've provided a great opportunity to make 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.600 a living with a great retirement plan. You know, we'd 0:02:20.680 --> 0:02:22.320 really like you to play with us. We've done it, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:24.680 you know, we provide great courses and all these things, 0:02:25.720 --> 0:02:28.800 and left it at that. I would have said, hey, bravo, 0:02:28.919 --> 0:02:32.360 here we go. Um. The minute that they kind of 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:39.000 started finding money, just kind of try to compete with money. UM, 0:02:39.240 --> 0:02:41.519 open my eyes that Wait a minute. You know, I 0:02:42.080 --> 0:02:44.760 thought they'd probably be doing everything that they should have done. 0:02:45.600 --> 0:02:47.519 And did they think that? And all of a sudden 0:02:47.560 --> 0:02:50.600 did they think they weren't? Um? And that's the first 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:52.600 time that I went like that kind of made me think. 0:02:52.720 --> 0:02:55.800 I've always thought the tour been great. I was representing 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.320 golfers to where if you were if you made a 0:02:58.320 --> 0:03:01.040 million dollars in a year old course. I mean, I 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:04.280 think Curtis Strange did it right and it was an 0:03:04.280 --> 0:03:06.440 amazing thing. And now guys you've never heard of and 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.639 couldn't spot if they were signed make more than a million, 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.840 so credible opportunity. Mat kind of just get you at 0:03:12.840 --> 0:03:14.480 one point real quick, because I want to make sure 0:03:14.520 --> 0:03:17.840 that our listeners understood it. Are you saying that are 0:03:17.840 --> 0:03:21.079 in your view based on what you just said, did 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.600 Monaghan miscalculate by raising the stakes and trying to match 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.960 the Saudis with money as an opening salvo. If you 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:32.640 had been his concicularity, would you have not recommended that? 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:36.680 I wouldn't have recommended it. And again, I don't want 0:03:36.680 --> 0:03:38.520 to just I don't want to question. Jay's a great 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:40.760 friend and really good at what he does. But now 0:03:40.840 --> 0:03:42.840 I just I just always thought the tour is doing 0:03:42.840 --> 0:03:46.920 a great job. I've watched the purses rise amazing levels. 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:49.800 And I know what other things they provide, you know, 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:52.360 little things you don't know about courtesy cars, stake care. 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.640 The retirement plan is off the charts. Um. The golf 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.800 course is the set up in the golf course, of 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.320 the rules officials. All of things that done has gotten 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.400 better since I've busines business. Uh, it's every year. Um. 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:07.680 If they had not flinched, I don't I wouldn't have 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:09.720 thought twice about it. I just said, well, you know, 0:04:09.880 --> 0:04:12.360 competition people got to do what they gotta do. The 0:04:12.440 --> 0:04:16.200 minute they said, wait a minute, and here's what we're 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:18.200 gonna do. We're gonna do this, it kind of made 0:04:18.200 --> 0:04:21.000 me think that they were unsure if they were doing everything. 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.080 And that's our criticism, and just that's the way I 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:26.680 took it. Well, and even just to put a finer point, 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:28.320 on that. I mean, basically, the players are getting a 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:30.640 hundred million dollars more this year than they were last 0:04:30.720 --> 0:04:33.280 year that they bumped up the p I P the 0:04:33.320 --> 0:04:37.960 players Championship purs they institute a couple of new bonus programs. Uh, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:42.440 they're twenty million dollars. Overall, purses went up substantially. So 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.560 it's true you would think the players would have been overjoyed. 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:48.400 Look at all this money. They turn the spigot on, 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:50.279 But then, well, why were they not giving it to 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:52.240 us in the first place? And that's been a bedrock 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:54.960 complaint from a lot of the players, is there's not 0:04:55.000 --> 0:04:57.520 the transparency. They want to know where is the money 0:04:57.560 --> 0:04:59.360 going and why are we not getting more of it? 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:01.720 And so, so it's your point, mag because like I'm 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:04.039 sure Jay moonha thought one was going to be ecstatic, like, 0:05:04.160 --> 0:05:06.039 here's a hundred million dollars for you guys to play for. 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:08.719 But it did in some ways support the case of 0:05:08.760 --> 0:05:11.320 Phil and others who have been saying, listen, where is 0:05:11.360 --> 0:05:14.039 the money going? Opening the books? We need to see 0:05:14.080 --> 0:05:18.080 the books and so but in that scenario, it feels 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:19.960 like like the commissioner was kind of damned if if 0:05:20.000 --> 0:05:21.520 he does and damn age, he does it because he's 0:05:21.520 --> 0:05:24.920 got to He's got to compete somehow, right. I mean, 0:05:24.960 --> 0:05:27.239 I think the PGA Tour is doing a great job competing. 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.880 I haven't seen anything that they have to change, you know. 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.520 I I would have looked at I mean this again 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.360 and go back to my personal opinion. I represent golfers 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.400 that you know, we're just coming out of college all 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.880 way up to guys that are on the Champions Tour. 0:05:40.200 --> 0:05:44.159 And the biggest concern I have now is when the 0:05:44.160 --> 0:05:47.680 Hogan Tour came out in the late eighties or early nineties, UM, 0:05:47.680 --> 0:05:50.440 and the last storty some years, the amount of competitive 0:05:50.440 --> 0:05:55.000 golfers in the world now compared to them is playing opportunities. 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:59.160 I would rather have that extra money placed onto maybe 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:03.120 make the corner for a little more viable financially. And 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.160 then I would have even said, kind of like baseball, 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:06.600 I would have come up with a you know, a 0:06:06.640 --> 0:06:10.520 double a another league. UM, rushing kids, I guess I 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.240 get the PGA Tour. You rushing kids out of college 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:16.719 on the tour, UM giving them opportunities based on what 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:20.080 they do an amateur golf. UM. I would rather Why 0:06:20.080 --> 0:06:22.080 wouldn't you just have a rookie league. Why wouldn't you 0:06:22.120 --> 0:06:26.120 just have another twenty series instead of a cute school twenty. 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:27.400 You know, if you've got the money to do that 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.080 then and then provide all the news stars a chance 0:06:31.120 --> 0:06:34.000 to come out people. I don't think people realize the 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.840 expense of playing for professional golf. I mean it's a 0:06:37.920 --> 0:06:40.040 it's an eight hundred thousand dollar year right out of 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.400 the bat um. You know, the you know the travel. 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:46.000 And I'll give an example. You know, a kid comes 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:49.880 out of college in June and he can't do anything. 0:06:49.960 --> 0:06:51.760 I mean, he can get some spots or maybe, but 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:53.800 essentially he's got to go to HU school and I 0:06:53.800 --> 0:06:57.200 think that's fifty. Um. You've got to go play three 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.960 stages of Q school at different times, hoping you don't 0:07:00.000 --> 0:07:01.919 get a stomach bug at the wrong time, hoping that 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.480 you know, things go well. And you do that, and 0:07:04.520 --> 0:07:07.920 now you can get on the corn Ferry Tour and 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:09.760 now you're not gonna make money. I mean you're gonna 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:13.080 spend a lot of money and then you can you 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:17.000 can work your way onto the PGA Tour. And you know, 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:19.160 these kids have been spending money since they're ten years old. 0:07:19.240 --> 0:07:24.200 Tigers old investing money, um, and how many good players 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:26.360 run out of money before they can have a chance 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:29.440 to compete. That's the big thing for my my position, 0:07:29.440 --> 0:07:32.720 and so you know, to live golf. There's playing opportunities 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.040 for young people. Hey, I'm fine if there's playing opportunities 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.040 on Asian Tour, European Tour. I'm looking for the young 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:40.840 guys coming up. And I would be the same if 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:42.560 I was a tour I would be looking at my 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:47.840 future stars along with my current stars. Mac. You you've 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:52.120 told us all of me both. I'm sure when we've 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:56.000 gotten together that your job often is holding the hand 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.320 of the father of the of the young player who 0:07:58.400 --> 0:08:00.760 is about to turn pro. And the question is always 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:02.400 the same. You know, they're talking to you, and they're 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.280 talking to this guy and that guy. What can you 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:07.800 guarantee my son? And the short answer is nothing. But 0:08:07.920 --> 0:08:10.280 let's say let's say some kid is the runner up 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.120 in the in the US a M. Now he's a name, 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.440 he's gonna play, he's just played his way into the Masters, 0:08:14.960 --> 0:08:17.880 and that kids getting recruited by liv Golf. Here's a 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:20.840 guaranteed million your first year playing professional, and probably a 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:23.440 lot more than that. Versus the crapshoot of what you 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:25.920 just described. What are you going to advise to that kid? 0:08:27.080 --> 0:08:30.120 Oh gosh, um, I mean, I'm you know, I have 0:08:30.200 --> 0:08:33.000 to provide opportunities. That's my job is to provide opportunities. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:35.319 I don't make decisions for players, but i'd have to 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.480 lay it out. I said, here's a point a Um, 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:41.840 being a runner up in US Amateur, you're probably going 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:45.360 to get a few starts on the PGA Tour. Okay um. 0:08:45.520 --> 0:08:47.960 And and then you know you've got to get ready 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:50.320 to perform. So you're gonna be playing in some you know, 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.079 I'm gonna use the word g Pro, which is a 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.839 nice little mini tour series and a friend of mine runs, 0:08:54.880 --> 0:08:57.440 and you know you're gonna be playing some pretty rough 0:08:57.480 --> 0:09:00.520 golf courses, stand some pretty rough neighborhoods. And then we're 0:09:00.520 --> 0:09:03.079 gonna go to Q school for three three year of 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.600 her sections to go play the corner farry for another year. Um, 0:09:06.640 --> 0:09:09.360 if you finished last in this event, in every event, 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:13.040 you're gonna make a million dollars. I mean, whether I 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:14.960 give them advice or not, I know what they're gonna do. 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:18.200 There's not one person that's gonna knock go um and 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:20.960 you could. I don't know how you could blame them. Um. 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:23.440 I mean, really, people don't realize how many more good 0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:25.320 players there are there. It used to be. I mean 0:09:25.600 --> 0:09:28.120 I went and watch the SEC's at Island here. They 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:29.679 used to be there'd be one or two players on 0:09:29.720 --> 0:09:31.480 a college team, but you would look at and say, man, 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:35.280 that guy's got it. And now every guy on that range, 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:38.760 all five look like they can play the tour, swings, power, 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:41.440 all these things and there, and you just multiply that 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:45.000 by the world. Where are these guys playing golf? Um? 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:49.040 So I don't know, I know, I just I do 0:09:49.240 --> 0:09:51.680 you know you? I use baseball analogies a lot. The 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:55.080 major leagues don't sign a kid out of college and say, hey, 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:57.040 you're not ready for Triple A and you're not ready 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.080 for the majors, so go find you kind of a 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.360 sandlot league to go play in and get prepared. Maybe 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.880 come back next year. I mean they send them the 0:10:03.960 --> 0:10:05.800 rookie ball and then they send them to single A, 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.520 Double A. I mean, you take that talent and you 0:10:08.600 --> 0:10:11.240 let it mature. But I mean it is a it's 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.560 it's a crapshoot getting out there. On this tour. I 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.719 mean it's tough. And again people say, well, if you're 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:19.240 good enough, you'll get there. And and I'll just add 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.480 one thing, if you're good enough and have enough money, 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:25.160 you'll get there. But everybody doesn't have two or three 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:30.160 or four dollars to sustain that livelihood. And so that's 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.200 that's what I would love. I would if you said, hey, 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.000 what would rob Golf do for me? Hey? Man, if 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.840 they're going to build a you know, a tour for 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.720 people to play until they can, you know, build their 0:10:40.760 --> 0:10:43.679 way up to the PGA Tour, how could I argue 0:10:43.679 --> 0:10:45.839 with that? Well? I was just gonna ask, I mean, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:49.440 what is the role of say, the PGA Tour or 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:51.560 any or the European Tour or any of these these 0:10:51.679 --> 0:10:55.040 established big league circuits. Do they have an obligation and 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:59.920 a duty to to create a system for the young players? Okay, 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.199 I don't think it's an obligation. I would think it 0:11:03.200 --> 0:11:07.400 would be a necessity in order to have future stars. Um, 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.040 I mean you would want to. I mean three weeks 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:13.959 ACU school certainly doesn't prove anything. I represented Bratt Senecker. 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:15.720 I don't think he made it through a second stage 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.880 he worked his way through Monday qualifiers, got through you know, 0:11:18.960 --> 0:11:20.480 I think it was the web dot com at the time, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:24.720 and moved his way up. Um, if the current system 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.160 was in state when Ricky Fowler turned pro, his first 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:30.120 year would have been on the corner for you lost 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.679 a whole year Ricky Fowler, and who would have want 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:34.080 I mean, he was on the Ryder Cup. I think 0:11:34.280 --> 0:11:36.880 kind of like as a rookie. UM. So, I don't 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:39.360 think they have a responsibility to do anything except put 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:41.720 on their events and say, you know, whoever qualifies gets 0:11:41.760 --> 0:11:44.520 in here. But I would think from their their point, 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:47.160 it would be a necessity to do it to make 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.880 sure that we capture all the young talent. And that's 0:11:49.920 --> 0:11:52.719 always been my thought process on you know, the Live 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:54.720 Golf Tour. You know, I looked at it as like, 0:11:55.440 --> 0:11:57.120 I mean, if they take the older guys, and I 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:59.440 mean they choose to play, it's great, But what if 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:03.320 they decided to go after the top twenty kids coming 0:12:03.320 --> 0:12:06.600 out of college everything. I mean not you know, if 0:12:06.600 --> 0:12:08.720 they built a tour underneath Live Tour. I'm not saying, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:11.440 but that would that would be alarming to me if 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:16.880 I was running an organization. Yeah, that's interesting. Uh. You know, 0:12:17.240 --> 0:12:19.079 Michael and I have spent a lot of time talking 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:23.400 and thinking and writing about some some of the complicated 0:12:23.440 --> 0:12:26.840 issues around this emergence of of of the Saudi Tour, 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.640 and um, you know, Michael just dropped a huge story 0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.480 that they got that brings in everyone from Donald Trump 0:12:32.520 --> 0:12:35.040 to Greg Norman to Phil Nicholson and Jack Nicholas and 0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.800 everyone's had to to wrestle with us on some level. 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:40.719 But you you talked to a lot of players. I mean, 0:12:41.040 --> 0:12:42.880 I feel like that maybe the players aren't as tortured 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:45.720 about this like their professional golfers. By definition, they played 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:48.160 golf for money and they're gonna go where the money 0:12:48.200 --> 0:12:50.280 is and where the opportunity is. And am I right 0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:53.120 about that? That that maybe taking the broad stroke of 0:12:53.240 --> 0:12:56.120 professional golf. They just they don't really see what what 0:12:56.200 --> 0:13:01.280 all the controversies about it. I mean, we you know, 0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:03.360 if they call it the salary Tour, I mean that's 0:13:03.400 --> 0:13:07.120 kind of been highlighted a lot. I know, I've never 0:13:07.160 --> 0:13:08.680 had a golfer asked me, I'm going to do this, 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:10.640 but where is the money coming from? I don't know 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.040 if I've ever I'm not going to be responsible for 0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:16.360 this money's coming from wherever. I mean, if you you know, 0:13:16.400 --> 0:13:18.600 if you're certain, people may say I don't like gambling, 0:13:18.679 --> 0:13:21.679 but you know, casino offers enough money they'll go. Now 0:13:22.559 --> 0:13:25.839 they grow up playing looking to play for money. And 0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:29.280 you know, and and this so Mady sound bad. But 0:13:29.360 --> 0:13:31.760 most people kids sitting around in the pudding Green that 0:13:31.800 --> 0:13:35.040 are pretending to win a tournament. It's probably the Masters, 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:38.400 maybe the US Open, maybe the British, maybe the PGA. 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.800 They're not sitting around saying I'm gonna win the whatever, 0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:46.679 Just name a tournament, right, yeah, St Jude. Now, do 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:49.360 they want to get wealthy playing golf, Yes, But I 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:53.240 think everybody's perspective of the guys that I talked to, 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:56.320 the perspective all changes with how much money they have 0:13:56.360 --> 0:13:58.319 in the bank. I mean, if the guy's got fifty 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.040 million in the bank, he can afford to say, you know, 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:02.640 I'm doing this. And if a guy's got you know, 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:05.240 three hundred thousand in the bank, he's thirty six years old, 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:08.280 his putting strokes going a little bit, he's got enough 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:10.760 name power to maybe do something, He's going to go 0:14:10.840 --> 0:14:13.520 the other way. It's going to be driven by financials 0:14:13.720 --> 0:14:17.000 um and I hate it in the sense that it's 0:14:17.040 --> 0:14:18.760 going to look at look, they would be looked at 0:14:18.880 --> 0:14:25.560 or ostracized and maybe lose corporate endorsements. I mean, I'm 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:27.520 a little supprised to hear you say that, Mac, because 0:14:27.880 --> 0:14:30.600 I think that the kid, the kid gets into golf 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.440 because you know, like the kid runs for a student 0:14:33.480 --> 0:14:36.200 government in high school. They want the stature, They want, 0:14:36.560 --> 0:14:40.960 you know, the better date. Uh, they want people to 0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:44.400 look at It's like you know your client and and uh, 0:14:44.960 --> 0:14:47.520 you know golfer that we all love, Lucas Clever. What 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.040 was the greatest moment about winning the US Open? It 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.800 was Wednesday of Hartford. Everybody on the practice he is 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:55.600 looking at him different. Um. So I would have thought 0:14:55.640 --> 0:14:57.640 that that may be as a as a manager in 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.560 an agent, someone who's developing young talent, you can say 0:15:00.560 --> 0:15:03.640 to the kid, what do you really want your life? 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.080 Do you want to show that you can be the 0:15:05.200 --> 0:15:07.520 field of a hundred forty four other guys or do 0:15:07.560 --> 0:15:09.440 you want to just or you just want to grab money? 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.560 And knowing you as I do, Mac, I know where 0:15:11.680 --> 0:15:15.160 I know where your own uh enthuism enthusism with life. 0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:17.800 But I imagine in some sense it's in conflict right now. 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:21.160 It's changed over the years. Yeah, I want to sound 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:23.560 justin Leonard out of Texas and money four. I mean, 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:25.800 I can tell you I don't think he ever mentioned money. 0:15:25.880 --> 0:15:29.000 He wanted to beat people. Um, get me in tournaments. 0:15:29.040 --> 0:15:30.920 I'm gonna go beat people, and he did did a 0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:34.920 great job of it. Uh. In the last several years, 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.480 money has turned into the only thing guys. I mean, 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.840 that's how they describe people. Now. Have you met so 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:43.280 and so, Man, he's loaded, he's a billionaire. I hear 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:45.200 it all the time and and I always look at 0:15:45.240 --> 0:15:46.680 him like, yeah, but I know that guy and he's 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.720 not happy. You know. The happiest people I know are 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:51.600 what people doing what they love to do and to 0:15:51.760 --> 0:15:54.120 keep doing it. I mean, why do you see these 0:15:54.120 --> 0:15:58.920 golfers I'm on the Champions Tour. Bernard Longer can't need money, 0:16:00.080 --> 0:16:03.320 means he can't mean money and he can where he 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.720 spend it too much. But I mean he likes to 0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:07.640 beat people. And you go out and watch the guy's 0:16:07.720 --> 0:16:09.960 Dicky Pritt or I mean, just look at these guys 0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:13.200 are they're aging, but they have that fire and you know, 0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:16.360 I I watched Daviss Love hit balls on the reins 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.240 the other day, trying to trying to be able to 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:22.080 go to the p G. A uh, I mean it's 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:24.520 still there. That's what. That's what's great about golf. It 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:28.440 never ends. And so no, it's changed in the younger 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.600 The younger folks now come out. How much money can 0:16:31.640 --> 0:16:35.280 I get? How many endorsements can I get? Um, you 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:38.120 know they see these private Jeck commercials, you know they 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:40.960 want to fly private. I mean, it's it's changed a 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.680 ton and again, I it's not my job to judge them, 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:47.200 but I just you know, I've seen the rise and 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.880 fall of golf. Um. You know, this is not forever 0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.360 career for everybody. This isn't it's a there's a short 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:58.080 window to go make your money. Everybody thinks. Everybody thinks 0:16:58.120 --> 0:17:01.680 everyone's a Jim Furric or Fred. You know, there's there's 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:03.560 a lot of names we could just start popping off 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:05.760 and you'll go, gosh, what happened to him? What happened 0:17:05.760 --> 0:17:09.520 to him? Whether it was through injury or you know ability. 0:17:10.000 --> 0:17:11.879 You know, Justin Leonard is a great story. You know 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:15.280 they didn't tiger proof golf courses in early two thousands, 0:17:15.280 --> 0:17:19.439 say Justin Leonard proof them. Um, I mean that, you know, 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.119 Justin Leonard would be the best players ever play if 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:23.840 he hit it thirty yards for him. I mean, that's 0:17:23.880 --> 0:17:27.520 how good a golfery was. And since distance became, you know, 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.919 like it's kind of like the Tour I mean trying 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.520 to when they tried to keep Tiger from winning golf terments, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.800 and that was what they were saying. By lengthening golf courses, 0:17:36.200 --> 0:17:37.840 they were really taking a lot of people that could 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:41.080 play golf out of the game. Um, you don't you 0:17:41.119 --> 0:17:44.879 know so? Um yeah, I look, money is not gonna 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:46.919 make you happy. We all know it. I try to. 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:48.399 You know, you can tell a kid that. But I 0:17:48.440 --> 0:17:51.280 also have a kid that says, you know, I you know, 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:53.000 I want to make I want to make money. I 0:17:53.000 --> 0:17:55.680 want to fly on that jets Mac. When you when 0:17:55.720 --> 0:17:58.080 you look at amateur talent and everybody looks good on 0:17:58.119 --> 0:17:59.880 the range, and everyone can pitch the ball and put 0:17:59.920 --> 0:18:03.879 the ball. They often shoot sixties six on any given day, 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:07.000 how do you decide who to go after? O God? 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:11.919 I mean, I mean, I mean after you meet with 0:18:12.000 --> 0:18:13.960 them and stuff and you watch them play, you can 0:18:14.000 --> 0:18:18.359 start seeing little differences and how they react to the game, Um, 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.560 how calm they are within the game, and UM, I 0:18:21.600 --> 0:18:23.480 always look you know, I always listen to the golf 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:25.600 ball first, you know, the sound that makes, because there's 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:28.920 some people can fake it. Um. But then you kind 0:18:28.920 --> 0:18:30.760 of you know, I've had to change over time because 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:32.680 you've gotta look at power. You've gotta look at guys 0:18:32.680 --> 0:18:34.919 that hit at three yards. You can't just look at 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:37.919 you know, guy that can chip and put um. And 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.520 then after that it's more about the relationship with the 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:42.320 guy because you know you're gonna be close to him 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.640 for a long time and so you know, there's no 0:18:45.119 --> 0:18:47.800 factors that you you can't look inside their heart and 0:18:47.840 --> 0:18:51.800 say can they handle golf at a professional level. I 0:18:51.840 --> 0:18:54.760 used to say there's a difference between playing God professionally 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:57.720 and being a God professional. You know, it's being a 0:18:57.720 --> 0:19:00.480 God professional means you're gonna travel a lot. Know, it's 0:19:00.520 --> 0:19:02.439 not glamorous. You're gonna tee off at seven in the 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.160 morning in your first PGA Tour event and no one 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.600 accept your parents and grandparents are watching me. It's gonna 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:09.600 be just like a junior event. You know, it's not 0:19:09.600 --> 0:19:12.199 gonna be crowds and and the hotels are not that 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.800 great and you're not and you're gonna be alone a lot. 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.639 You know, it's almost solitary confinement at times. Um and 0:19:18.880 --> 0:19:23.200 there's those moments of exhilaration of winning an event, but 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:27.280 you know, after a few days it's gone, you know. 0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:31.680 And and they've never played this college players, never played 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:34.480 the amount of golf to the tour player place, and 0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:37.159 can they handle that? You just don't know. So you know, 0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:39.080 everybody can say, well, I can tell you this guy 0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:40.639 is gonna win. Obviously you got to look at the 0:19:40.720 --> 0:19:44.200 earlier records. But for every guy that's won a lot 0:19:44.200 --> 0:19:47.000