1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to the NFL Legends Podcast, an NFL podcast for 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: the players, by the players. Here is your host, four 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:16,240 Speaker 1: team year NFL veteran and Hall of Famer Anius Williams. 4 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to another podcast. Is uh NFL Legends communicating just 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 1: regular dialogue. It's really a conversation, and that's what we've 6 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: always wanted to create an environment where players, all of 7 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: us will eventually transition, some of us sooner than later. 8 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 1: And and one of the things we want. The uniqueness 9 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,400 Speaker 1: about this particular podcast is all of us have had 10 00:00:44,600 --> 00:00:49,919 Speaker 1: similar emotions and experiences different how we transition, but make 11 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:53,599 Speaker 1: no mistake about it, We've all transitioned. So I have 12 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: Steven boying with me today, also Kevin Booth as well 13 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: as Roman Open. You're not from Louisville probably no, No, 14 00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: I grew up in d C. If you say my 15 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:11,680 Speaker 1: name ten times, rolling over, rolling over. That's probably one 16 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:13,759 Speaker 1: of the biggest parts about what we're gonna talk about 17 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: to this is finding your path. And ironically all of 18 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 1: these guys were at the league office and they were 19 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 1: able to continue along the path of professional football just 20 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: in another capacity. I guess we were called repurposing because 21 00:01:29,280 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: much of our identity has been I started playing football 22 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: when I was four, and a lot of us have 23 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 1: been playing this game for a long time. So now 24 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: as we talk about this path that we're going after 25 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,119 Speaker 1: transitioning Roman, why don't you talk to us about that? What? 26 00:01:42,120 --> 00:01:44,959 Speaker 1: What's that? How do you repurpose yourself? And what has 27 00:01:45,040 --> 00:01:49,280 Speaker 1: that path been post you're playing career? Well, um, I 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: got done playing in two thousand and eight, and that's 29 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:53,880 Speaker 1: probably the worst time ever in the history of the 30 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:56,640 Speaker 1: transition from two jobs. And that's when the you know, 31 00:01:56,680 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: the recession started. The economy was bad, and you know, 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: every body was losing their shirts basically around the country, 33 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: and so I think there was a lot less sensitivity 34 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: to a former twelve year offensive tackle who's who was 35 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,680 Speaker 1: going to a new career based on where the country 36 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: was at the time. I got my master's degree in 37 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: publican men in off season. Uh. It took me my 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 1: first four years in league, so like I was the 39 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:18,720 Speaker 1: fifth year senior, So I was in graduate school that 40 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:23,000 Speaker 1: spring and then I did a m a few internships 41 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: and fellowships on Capitol Hill. I did one at PEPSI. 42 00:02:27,040 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 1: So you know, one thing I learned it was actually 43 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,400 Speaker 1: Stacy Robinson was the guy that that he was a 44 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:36,920 Speaker 1: big mentor mind. He was deceased, he passing. Um he 45 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:38,960 Speaker 1: was the equivalent of the player development guy at the 46 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: p A. I'm Stacy always said, you know, don't be 47 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:45,000 Speaker 1: afraid to take that job or doing internship, or go 48 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 1: make forty grand or just learned something about maybe what 49 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: you don't want to do because you're not always gonna 50 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:53,920 Speaker 1: make the right decisions. And so right now you're the 51 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:56,240 Speaker 1: equivalent And when football is already goes, you're the equivalent 52 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: of a seventh grader who's got about five years before 53 00:02:59,240 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: you graduate somebody school. He said, right now, you're the 54 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: equivalent of about a seventh grader who won't graduate from 55 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: high school for about five years. So doing that process, 56 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna have to, you know, he said, go back home, 57 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 1: maybe try to coach for a year, you know, volunteer 58 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:15,799 Speaker 1: at your high school, like do all the things that 59 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:18,520 Speaker 1: you weren't able to do because of you playing football, 60 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: and then that will lead you to the next opportunity. 61 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:23,919 Speaker 1: So um, so I did that because I had a match. 62 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: I'm able to be an adjunct. I taught sports and 63 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: men um at Fairlie Dickinson in New Jersey where I 64 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:31,959 Speaker 1: got my master's degree, and and I think I think, 65 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: you know, playing for an organization like the Giants, um 66 00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: that a lot of guys. You had guys who are 67 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,600 Speaker 1: getting their master's degree, like Ryan Keel I was one 68 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: of my teammates who was a Giants player. Um, I 69 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: mean Tiki was doing Fox News internships. I mean we 70 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 1: had like half our team was doing stuff. So I'm 71 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: glad that I played in the market where that stuff 72 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: was celebrated because I think sometimes, you know, the the 73 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: identity piece of it is, uh, you know, you sit 74 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 1: on a plane with a guy who's like a medical 75 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 1: sales guy and he's got it on his little golf 76 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: shirt and so like that's always their identity. But we 77 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: like denounce our identity when we're playing because it's always 78 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: inherently negative, and especially your alignment. Oh big dude, I 79 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: know you played for somebody or who do you play 80 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 1: for any Like you're on the plane with your family, 81 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 1: you got sweats on, you know, these guys got suits 82 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,280 Speaker 1: and so but when football is over, it's really the now. 83 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 1: You're almost tapped back into the identity that you denounced. 84 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 1: And so that for me. It was about just saying 85 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: that it was okay to like, yeah, I played in 86 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: the league and I'm proud of that. And I did 87 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: and maybe I didn't start off as an intern and 88 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: become a coordinator and do all that stuff and and 89 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,240 Speaker 1: and grow that way. But like my twelve years is 90 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 1: being a profession for twelve years, it didn't really hold 91 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 1: me back. So I think sometimes we need to just 92 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,480 Speaker 1: rechange how we think about what transition really means. One, 93 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: you're always transitioning, right, your kids are gonna get older, 94 00:04:49,040 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: you might you know, just you might lose a parent 95 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,680 Speaker 1: or fine, something like. Those things happen and that's just 96 00:04:53,720 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 1: a part of life as a whole, and so we 97 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 1: have to just embrace that and not look at it. 98 00:04:57,720 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 1: It's just this negative thing like we're lost and we 99 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 1: don't know to do because football is over. So I 100 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: just I just I just changed the way I thought 101 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 1: about it. So it's it's really just dealing with the mindset. 102 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: It's almost like, because I'm thinking Kevin Um and Steven 103 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 1: that it's the psychology part of it. Just the psychology, man, 104 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 1: Because just as you said, it really came back to 105 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: me again. People try to attempt to get us to 106 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 1: really downplay our our careers and like, okay, forget about that. 107 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,159 Speaker 1: Now you gotta go out to real life. And I 108 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: like sharing with people because I've had people said that 109 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,840 Speaker 1: maybe you have as well. Okay, nice time to get 110 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: back to real life. No, this was real life for us. 111 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 1: This was the first reality TV. Right. You didn't get 112 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,000 Speaker 1: a chance to rehearse this. So I like to encourage 113 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:44,679 Speaker 1: and thank you for saying Roman that if we first 114 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:47,159 Speaker 1: get the mindset to understand if you can do this game. 115 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: Football was never a dumb man sport. If you google 116 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: it up, you're fine. I started in the Ivy League 117 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,920 Speaker 1: schools as as a strategy and how to prepare people 118 00:05:56,920 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: for war and things like that. So when when you 119 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 1: Kevin and you hear Roman talking about the transition, talking 120 00:06:03,600 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: about how he redefined it, the other thing I heard 121 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: is you seem to have a path of thinking about 122 00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,360 Speaker 1: the other part of your life even while playing. And 123 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,360 Speaker 1: that's why I like when some current players are going 124 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: to hear this because some believe it's taboo. Even some coaches, 125 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: I think believe that it is taboo. If you get 126 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 1: a player while he's playing thinking about a second career, 127 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,120 Speaker 1: he's gonna lose something. I believe you actually get a 128 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,000 Speaker 1: player who would be even better because it's that player 129 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 1: will have a balanced life. Let's say you Kevin Well. 130 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: You know, uh, similar to Roman, I was able to 131 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: spend a good chunk of my career with the New 132 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 1: York Giants. And you know, I can't speak for many 133 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:47,480 Speaker 1: other organizations, but I know over there it wasn't foreign 134 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: to have the upstairs people and the football players mix. 135 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: You know, I think that oftentimes you hear of a 136 00:06:55,520 --> 00:07:00,279 Speaker 1: clear distinction between management and players, or the front office 137 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: and players. But with the Giants, it seems as though 138 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: we were able to get exposed to a lot of 139 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: those business people. And that's actually how I got my 140 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: start um in preparing for my post football career. You know, 141 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 1: I think, like you said, oftentimes you're you're almost taught 142 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: or program to play football and have blinders on to 143 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 1: not think about anything else. You know, you're focused on 144 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,520 Speaker 1: making the team, You're focused on being around next year, 145 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 1: being around long term, and to stretch his career as 146 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:31,560 Speaker 1: long as possible. But uh, you know, as you get 147 00:07:31,560 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: older and you get a little wiser, you start to see, um, 148 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: I guess you get older. Is that automatic or I 149 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,800 Speaker 1: think so. I think it's that you, uh, you experience 150 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 1: a lot of different things, and you see a lot 151 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: of different things and you realize that, hey, this game 152 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 1: it's not gonna last long. You know, I was fortunate 153 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: enough to play nine years, but I was thirty one 154 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: years old when my career was over. So throughout my 155 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: playing career, as I uh rest, I started to think 156 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:04,920 Speaker 1: about what I wanted to do, uh post football. And 157 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: I've always loved the game of football, whether it was 158 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: the NFL or college or high school, and um, I 159 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: love sports. So I figured, hey, you know what would 160 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:17,040 Speaker 1: be great is to somehow stay involved with football, hopefully 161 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: post playing. And I was able to build a lot 162 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 1: of relationships internally with the front office people with the Giants, 163 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 1: and specifically Doug Smoyer, who at the time was our 164 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 1: vice president of sales sponsorship sales with the Giants. He 165 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 1: actually helped with naming rights for the practice facility and 166 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,320 Speaker 1: naming rights for the stadium, things of that nature, and uh, 167 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: you know, I'd always kept in touch with him, and 168 00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 1: you know, coincidentally, he ends up taking a similar role 169 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: at the League office in New York. And throughout my 170 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,680 Speaker 1: playing career, I kept in touch with him and mentioned 171 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 1: to him that I would love to come in and 172 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: just job shadow. I'd love to see the business side 173 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: of the NFL, you know, um, because I thought, Wow, 174 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: that'd be the best of both worlds, to be able 175 00:08:57,559 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 1: to build my skills into learn learned how to be 176 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 1: a businessman, but also stay close enough to the game, 177 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 1: the game that I love so much. So, you know, 178 00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: it's fortunate enough to come in shadow him for a 179 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: couple of days, and I wanted to do something maybe 180 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: long term, and he said, actually, through the Legends Development Program, 181 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: through the Legends community, there's an internship possibility there. So 182 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: I was able to apply for that and UH was 183 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:26,800 Speaker 1: accepted and actually worked in sponsorship at the NFL for 184 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 1: an extended period of time. That ultimately led to a 185 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: full time job in UH football Operations Strategy, which is 186 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,719 Speaker 1: where I am now. Wow, So Stephen, as you hear 187 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,040 Speaker 1: Roman and now we've heard Kevin, It's only these guys 188 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:41,959 Speaker 1: were pretty much on that path the whole time they 189 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,360 Speaker 1: we're playing was is that your story as well? Originally 190 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: it wasn't. Um. I feel like when I when I 191 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: got to Washington, I was still young. I just got 192 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 1: a big deal. I thought I had all the answers. Honestly, 193 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: you know what I need to go back to school for. 194 00:09:59,480 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 1: I got my me you know, really, you don't tell me. 195 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: Tell me about that, because one of the things I 196 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,080 Speaker 1: was thinking about before I came in here. I was 197 00:10:07,120 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 1: thinking about, man, Uh, I think Einstein said, what youth 198 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,920 Speaker 1: is wasted on the young? And we have this success 199 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: in a career in the spotlight that we have it, 200 00:10:17,840 --> 00:10:21,319 Speaker 1: you start thinking, man, I got it. Just so elaborated 201 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:23,240 Speaker 1: just a little bit, because I also want the current 202 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 1: players who may not realize the vulnerability that while we 203 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: think we have it, we're really most vulnerable, right right, Um, 204 00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: you think you know that you're invincible, you know that 205 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:35,080 Speaker 1: that That was the feeling that I had that you know, 206 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: I'm on top of my game. I'm never gonna get hurt. 207 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: I'm just I just feel like I'm super human at 208 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,600 Speaker 1: this point. And uh, I was wrong. I was dead 209 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: wrong man. You know. But my wife she asked me, 210 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:52,680 Speaker 1: you ever thought about going back to schooling you in 211 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,680 Speaker 1: your masters? And I was going back to school, like, 212 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: I'm not going back to school, right? And then I 213 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,959 Speaker 1: just are thinking about, like, man, maybe I need to 214 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: go back to school, because what do I even like 215 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,439 Speaker 1: besides football? Like, I don't even know what I'm gonna 216 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,640 Speaker 1: do when this thing is done. So what year was 217 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 1: this when you was twenty twelve? I mean, what year 218 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: where you in? What year in the league? How many 219 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:28,480 Speaker 1: six seven around there? And had you been married? I've 220 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: been married at that point about five years or five years. 221 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: So I started really thinking about it. I was like, man, 222 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: maybe I need to just see what this is about, 223 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 1: you know. And it's funny when I when I sign 224 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: up for the program, the program that I'm in, Kevin 225 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,480 Speaker 1: Booth was already in it first year. And what program 226 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 1: was that. It was a program called star Ember Program 227 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,480 Speaker 1: at George Washington University in d C. And how did 228 00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:57,559 Speaker 1: that come about? What was that through the league or 229 00:11:57,960 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 1: you know? It was I think it was a little 230 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 1: bit of both. It was this program that was started UM. 231 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: I think it was a joint effort between UH startup 232 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:10,599 Speaker 1: guy and UH and the university, so it's almost like 233 00:12:10,640 --> 00:12:13,720 Speaker 1: a partnership. And they kind of got in with agents 234 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: and things like that just to kind of spread word 235 00:12:15,640 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 1: that hey, we have this program that's kind of built 236 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: around an NFL offseason calendar, and um, you know, we 237 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 1: were fortunate if I was a part of the first 238 00:12:24,240 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 1: class there at George Washington. And I think it's kind 239 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: of rebranded itself now. I think the last time I checked, 240 00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:33,920 Speaker 1: there was a class at the University of Miami. UM. 241 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: So it's it offered a unique experience to be able 242 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: to do this but not have it effect your off 243 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 1: season training. So it was done over a couple off seasons, 244 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 1: so you know, it's funny. You know, Stephen and I 245 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,640 Speaker 1: literally played against each other literally like I was a 246 00:12:51,679 --> 00:12:54,800 Speaker 1: left guard for the Giants and he's my division rival 247 00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: at three or four defensive end. Like literally we played 248 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 1: against each other. And uh, I'll never forget it. I 249 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,559 Speaker 1: think it was late in the season one year, because 250 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: the two thousands twelve seasons, so I've already been through 251 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 1: a year and it's after the game, and you know, 252 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: you're saying high and best wishes to everybody, and he's like, hey, 253 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: I'll see you next month in class. You know, I mean, 254 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: opponents can really be partners of the current players. Fighting 255 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:24,200 Speaker 1: just reminded him. Eventually, when it's all said and done, 256 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: I realized that we're all in the same ship. So 257 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,720 Speaker 1: you yeah, ask yourself, what do I even like and 258 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:33,920 Speaker 1: what were the feelings now that you're taking this step, 259 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:38,439 Speaker 1: because you're still not sure what you know this program. Honestly, 260 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: I felt lost for for a little bit. You know, 261 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: I just felt like, you know, even though I love football, 262 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: you know, I dedicated my life to football, but it 263 00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:53,000 Speaker 1: consume all of me. You know, I had to give 264 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: my all to the game to to to be where 265 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,479 Speaker 1: I was at that I really didn't get to explore 266 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: one of the things that I I may even be good at, 267 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: you know. So going back to school, Uh, it made 268 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,680 Speaker 1: me realize that, you know, there's a lot of things 269 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:13,440 Speaker 1: that I may want to dip moon dabble into, and 270 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: just helped me to think about life in a different way, 271 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: you know, not living for today, thinking about the future, 272 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: thinking about what's the future for my kids, um, their kids, 273 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: you know. So um well, ultimately, you know, it came 274 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 1: back around it. Man. I really love football. Man. You know, 275 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 1: there's other things that uh could interest me, but I 276 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: really just love being around the game. And Uh, while 277 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:48,560 Speaker 1: I was still in class and the next season was 278 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:51,360 Speaker 1: about to start, I reached out to the player development 279 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: guy for the Redskins Malcolm Blacken, and I asked them like, hey, man, 280 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 1: do you know anybody at UH at the League office, 281 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:00,920 Speaker 1: you know, in front of York. I would love to 282 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: build a relationship with a league And he said, yeah, 283 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:10,960 Speaker 1: I know Troy Vincent. So say, like, during that whole season, 284 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: me and Troy would email each other back and forth. 285 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: I would stay in contact with him, and in the 286 00:15:17,680 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: off season when I came back up to New York, 287 00:15:20,360 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 1: he invited me to come to the office. And you know, 288 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,360 Speaker 1: I told him about my my passion for the game. 289 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,520 Speaker 1: I love this game, and you know, I just want 290 00:15:28,560 --> 00:15:32,880 Speaker 1: to be a part of, you know, protecting the integrity 291 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 1: of this game when it's all said and done for me, 292 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:39,800 Speaker 1: And you know, he really I thought I was passionate 293 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,960 Speaker 1: about the game. And I kept in contact with him 294 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: for another two or three years, and I would take 295 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 1: business up here, just to people to familiarize them with myself. 296 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: So when it was all said and done, you know, 297 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 1: for me, I transitioned right from playing into the league office. 298 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: It's ah as we transition, I think of adversity when 299 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: it come down and setbacks. So I decided that with 300 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: the resources that I had amassed in the league. I 301 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:19,640 Speaker 1: wanted to find a way to facilitate other people having 302 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: opportunities that would ordinarily not have them. What did that 303 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,840 Speaker 1: look like for me? It looked like buying six car dealerships. 304 00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: And I acquired the dealerships while still playing something that 305 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend anyone to do, right. So that was 306 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,160 Speaker 1: the first mistake. The second one is I bought six 307 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: at one time. There's a Bible verse that says be 308 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: fruitful and didn't multiply. So all of a sudden, I'm 309 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 1: thrust in the middle of something that's one not my passion. 310 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: So it wasn't that I loved the car business. I 311 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:54,040 Speaker 1: attempted to have ownership where I could raise up other people, 312 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,560 Speaker 1: family friends, who would put the hard work in the business, 313 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: and then eventually allow them to own their on them. 314 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 1: And I understand the mistake of And here's the other 315 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: thing that sometimes we do as players, and Roman mentioned it, 316 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: uh be okay with making thirty grand too, Uh, in 317 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: order to get to where you want to go because 318 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: no one's gonna pay you all that money and having 319 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 1: the humility to do it. Sometimes is us transitioning and 320 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: want to go into something else and be at that 321 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,720 Speaker 1: that pinnacle, right, he sounds sounds pretty cool man, and 322 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,119 Speaker 1: Niz Williams on six card dealership. Yeah, but I'm like 323 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:34,080 Speaker 1: that duck that looks smooth on water, but my feet 324 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 1: moving like crazy, right because I'm over my head. So adversity, 325 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: did you guys experience? So I experienced that versity. I'll 326 00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:43,120 Speaker 1: never forget playing in the playoff game. This is when 327 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: I realized the major reason people fail is broken focus, 328 00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,199 Speaker 1: and I'm dynamic at being focused. I never forget. I 329 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: was getting ready to playing my playoff game against the 330 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: Carolina Panthers, and the week leading up to that game, 331 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: I got a call from G M. A. C. Who 332 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,399 Speaker 1: was my finance source for my dealerships, calling me saying, 333 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: you have a short fall in your dealerships and we 334 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 1: need you to wire over immediately close to grand So 335 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: can you imagine being prepared, trying to prepare for a 336 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: playoff game and having and when you own stuff. Guess what, 337 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: They don't talk to anybody else. They called the person 338 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: and that's what that's what ended up happening. So I 339 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,199 Speaker 1: like sharing that so players, current players can know they 340 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 1: men take your time number one, And I would be 341 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,760 Speaker 1: careful in terms of ownership while you're still playing. The 342 00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:39,280 Speaker 1: second thing is overcoming it. It's now once I realized 343 00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,320 Speaker 1: the mess, is now being able to own it. That's 344 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: another key thing football, out of all things, should teach 345 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: all of us right own it. Yeah, when I think 346 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:52,719 Speaker 1: about adversity, I think it's that point when you realize 347 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,200 Speaker 1: that you're playing career is over. And Uh, my situation, 348 00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 1: I think is like the majority of those uh whose 349 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,200 Speaker 1: career ends. It's it's not you know, the nice Peyton 350 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: Manning Super Bowl championship and then you have your nice 351 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 1: press conference and then right off into the sunset. Uh. 352 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:17,240 Speaker 1: Mine was. I was released immediately after the draft by 353 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: the Oakland Raiders. I think it was May of two 354 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,040 Speaker 1: thousand fifteen. So I'm still in football mode, you know, 355 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,160 Speaker 1: I'm I think I can still play. And um, it 356 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: wasn't until about mid season that two thousand fifteen season. 357 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: It was probably around this time November or so, where 358 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 1: I was like, well, you know what, it's it's over. 359 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 1: It's over. What am I chasing right now? I've played 360 00:19:39,119 --> 00:19:42,400 Speaker 1: nine years, uh, stayed relatively healthy. It was a part 361 00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,720 Speaker 1: of two Super Bowl championship teams. You know, you gotta 362 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: come to grips, said, hey, maybe maybe this is it. 363 00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: And uh, I think that that was probably the toughest 364 00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 1: moment in terms of turning the page because you're watching 365 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,920 Speaker 1: football and you're thinking I could do that. I'm seeing 366 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: these guys on the field and you wonder why am 367 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,199 Speaker 1: I not getting a call? And uh, you know, I 368 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: think that that was probably the biggest moment of adversity. 369 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: And then ultimately it's how quickly can you turn the 370 00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:12,239 Speaker 1: page and turn that into a positive? And for me 371 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 1: it was starting this new life as a professional as 372 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,440 Speaker 1: a businessperson at the NFL. Here I am now I'm 373 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,800 Speaker 1: starting up. How can I improve to show that I'm 374 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:29,440 Speaker 1: worthy to continue to play, so to speak, at a 375 00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 1: higher level, and to keep going from there. You know 376 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:34,639 Speaker 1: what I hear is that I like the communicating terms 377 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:39,240 Speaker 1: where it sounds like process right, and sound like each 378 00:20:39,280 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: of us began to understand that there was a process. 379 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: In other words, like you said twenty and you you shared, uh, 380 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 1: Kevin and reference to building a new career. It's like 381 00:20:49,600 --> 00:20:53,000 Speaker 1: starting at zero again. But it's still a process, right, 382 00:20:53,119 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 1: It's still And I want to encourage guys. Number one 383 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: is whatever you decided to do attempt because I hear 384 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 1: you guys, you okay with the process. It didn't mean, 385 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 1: as you said, Stephen, you didn't have some some feelings 386 00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: about this twenty dolls our paycheck. But I noticed you 387 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 1: didn't stop. How how were you but not to stop? 388 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: Or did you ever have the thought at any point 389 00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: during this process? I really didn't, because I just loved 390 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,600 Speaker 1: I love the environment here, I love just coming and 391 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,800 Speaker 1: learn about the other different aspects of football, what's happening 392 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: behind the scenes. So every day I came here, I 393 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:37,320 Speaker 1: really truly enjoyed being here, you know. So for me, 394 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: it wasn't it wasn't hard at all. I think this 395 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 1: is uh, you know, basically we pressed pause on you know, 396 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: the real world, so to speak, while we're playing. And 397 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: now I think of this as a learning experience. I'm 398 00:21:49,560 --> 00:21:52,520 Speaker 1: I feel as though every day I'm picking up something new, 399 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:54,240 Speaker 1: and it doesn't have to be in the NFL office, 400 00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: It could be anywhere wherever your passion is, uh, you know, 401 00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: just continue to learn as much as possible and to 402 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,480 Speaker 1: attack it the same way you attack your playing career. 403 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:05,440 Speaker 1: And that's been my approach, is that I'm trying to 404 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:08,240 Speaker 1: learn learn from the vets. You know, as a young player, 405 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: as a rookie, you try to gain as much knowledge 406 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: as you can. And I think of it here. You know, 407 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,399 Speaker 1: you try to find those people that you can build 408 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:18,919 Speaker 1: those relationships who've been successful and who've been around and 409 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:22,280 Speaker 1: know what it's like to start at an entry level 410 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,000 Speaker 1: and then work their way up and to learn the 411 00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: best practices and and to build off of that. I 412 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:30,399 Speaker 1: think back to my college days, you know, the great 413 00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: uh Hostra and Carnell, all these great universities, and I 414 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,400 Speaker 1: called the Southern University. I remember my coach, you got 415 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 1: me a job back in New Orleans schools in Baton Rouge, 416 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,879 Speaker 1: back in New Orleans in the prison and um, and 417 00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: it was twelve hour days. And then they forget that 418 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 1: said it was really the first time I really had 419 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,880 Speaker 1: a job like that. It was with the sheriff Department, 420 00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: working in the prisons, in the courts, and man, I 421 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: found myself for the first time. On Fridays like you 422 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: get the check, you excited, and then Sunday evening, I'm 423 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,840 Speaker 1: like depressed. I'm like, man, I gotta go back to this. 424 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 1: And I'm experiencing this in college. And the reason why 425 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,360 Speaker 1: I brought this up during transition because I've heard each 426 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,640 Speaker 1: of you guys talk about finding your passion, right is. 427 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: I said to myself, Man, I don't want to live 428 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: like this. So once I finally divested of the dealerships, 429 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:23,560 Speaker 1: I was very fortunate to be able to sell them 430 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: before the market crash, and two thousand and eight, two 431 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,320 Speaker 1: thousand seven, I found my passion. Man. I love the gospel. 432 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,600 Speaker 1: I love. I'm a pastor. My wife and I passed 433 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: a church in Ferguson and then I speak all over 434 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: the country and then just doing this with you guys, 435 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,119 Speaker 1: this is what I love. Like I tell people, I 436 00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: can't wait to get up in the morning, and that's 437 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,359 Speaker 1: what I want to encourage players. Man, don't don't go 438 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,879 Speaker 1: to something that just seems sexy or this is something 439 00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: that it sounds good to other people. But find your passion. 440 00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: Because when you find your passion, like when we're playing football, 441 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: I didn't need motivation and man, just tell me where 442 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:05,479 Speaker 1: we need to go, work out where we're going. It 443 00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,520 Speaker 1: didn't matter how how rigorous it wasn't I didn't care 444 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 1: how difficult. I don't care how it was. Why I 445 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:13,880 Speaker 1: was in my passion the same thing now with pastoring. 446 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 1: I don't need motivation. I'm already inspired. So that's why 447 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 1: I want to encourage players. And even if you've had 448 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: a setback, it understands just like in football, man, man, 449 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:27,280 Speaker 1: we had bad plays, right, And so to to get 450 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,840 Speaker 1: players that are listening, legends that are listening to this 451 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:34,840 Speaker 1: to understand that you may have some setbacks, but don't 452 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: don't don't live in a setback a treaty like we've 453 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:42,200 Speaker 1: been taught. As players are treated, they're going to uh 454 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: to the next play. Is there anything else that comes 455 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: to mind thinking about can you tell me the feelings 456 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:54,480 Speaker 1: like were you ever afraid? Where you ever nervous in 457 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,320 Speaker 1: this transition? I guess for me, you know, I was 458 00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,600 Speaker 1: just hope it that I do prove myself. What if 459 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: I don't? What if at the end of this temp 460 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:09,479 Speaker 1: contract they said, all right, there's a nice knowing you 461 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 1: you know, so, uh, what if this doesn't work out? 462 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: What what's the next move? So that that was scary 463 00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: for me, you know, I just to kind of piggyback 464 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: off of that, I think it's uh, it's definitely a 465 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,160 Speaker 1: fear of the fact that a lot of these people 466 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: wherever it might be, a lot of your new coworkers 467 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: or your new peers have been doing this for an 468 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,680 Speaker 1: extended period of time, So there's that fear of wow, 469 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 1: you know, how do I catch up to where they are? 470 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: You know, it could be something simple, but how do 471 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,159 Speaker 1: I get to where they are? You know? And you 472 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:46,159 Speaker 1: always hear well, the more you do it, the you know, 473 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: the quicker it will come to you, and things like that. 474 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: But there's always that inherent fear that you're never gonna 475 00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,600 Speaker 1: be able to close that gap between those people who 476 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,880 Speaker 1: have been working in this field while you were out 477 00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,600 Speaker 1: on the practice field. But at the same time, I 478 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: think just to go back to what you said originally, 479 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 1: and is is that, uh, you know, give yourself credit 480 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,439 Speaker 1: for what the skills that we've acquired while playing football. 481 00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:14,280 Speaker 1: You know, you'd be surprised by how much it transfers 482 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 1: to the real world. You know, whether it's working with 483 00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:21,560 Speaker 1: someone um, hard work, battling through adversity. These are things 484 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,960 Speaker 1: that you know, we've dealt with at such a high 485 00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:28,119 Speaker 1: level that quite frankly, a lot a lot of people 486 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: in the normal business world haven't had to deal with. 487 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,400 Speaker 1: You know. The final thing I want to say, Stephen, 488 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 1: is I got my degree while in school and and 489 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 1: to graduate school while still in school. And I think 490 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:44,480 Speaker 1: sounds like you did as well. Not my master is 491 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: my master. And then you had sounding like you Stephen 492 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,880 Speaker 1: had not gotten your degree while at Hostra. No I did. 493 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:58,479 Speaker 1: I under I got my undergrad under But after that, 494 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:03,359 Speaker 1: that's when once I my second deal and my wife 495 00:27:03,359 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 1: told me maybe you should go back to school. It 496 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: was like to me, it just like this mind by 497 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: going want me to go back to school. But it 498 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,760 Speaker 1: was the best choice I've ever made. Man. And here's 499 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 1: what I was asking it. Well, sounding all of us 500 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: got our undergrad sound like Roman did as well. That 501 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,840 Speaker 1: player that really was at that three year and done player, right, 502 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: that's that's contemplating that because that's why I wanted the 503 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,399 Speaker 1: feelings emotions about how did it felt? How did it feel? 504 00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 1: And you articulated a good I don't know if you 505 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:36,080 Speaker 1: can add anymore because we got that that three year player. 506 00:27:36,560 --> 00:27:38,840 Speaker 1: All I'm doing is going to school for three years 507 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: that I'm going to the league. So we have that 508 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:44,840 Speaker 1: legend who's already transitioned and the current player who have 509 00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,480 Speaker 1: not gotten their degree. Is there anything you would share 510 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,360 Speaker 1: with them to encourage them go after that degree. Man. 511 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: They degree is big. Man. Uh, you're gonna feel on 512 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,679 Speaker 1: top when when when when you're playing, you know, but 513 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: when it's so said and done and you don't have 514 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,840 Speaker 1: anything to to show besides the money that you made, 515 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,199 Speaker 1: what are you gonna do? What can you do in 516 00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: this world with a degree? You want to do some 517 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,880 Speaker 1: manual labor. You're gonna be construction worker. I mean, that's 518 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 1: okay if that's what you want to do. But you 519 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:22,520 Speaker 1: gotta get that paper. Man. But what about the guy 520 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 1: that said, man I got cash stacked up. Man, I 521 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: didn't think about that. Man I got enough. I'm I'm good. 522 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,600 Speaker 1: How do I want you give me? Give me a 523 00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:34,440 Speaker 1: one sentence is something that would close this out for 524 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 1: for that that legend that's thinking that because they're young, 525 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: they don't realize it. Man, I'm I'll turn fifty in January, 526 00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:43,920 Speaker 1: So you know, I think it's it's more of an opportunity. 527 00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:47,920 Speaker 1: You know, it opens up different avenues for you that 528 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 1: you might not necessarily need now. It could be later 529 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,320 Speaker 1: down the road you might need it, you might not, 530 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 1: But at the very least you can also set a 531 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,400 Speaker 1: positive example, for your kids or for other people who 532 00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:02,800 Speaker 1: are your with. So I think getting that college degree 533 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: and showing that you're willing to complete something, um, you know, 534 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: it ultimately shows that you're willing to do what's necessary. 535 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: Why you actually went to school is to ultimately get 536 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 1: that degree. You know, I think of football is just 537 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: being a bonus at this point, but to set that 538 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,400 Speaker 1: clear example that hey, I went to school, I completed 539 00:29:22,440 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 1: my degree. I might need it, I might not, but 540 00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 1: it's very important to do this. You know. The initial 541 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,640 Speaker 1: reason why I wanted to go to school was because 542 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,760 Speaker 1: I have these financial visors showing me these numbers. I 543 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: don't know what the hell they're talking about. Wow, what's 544 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,600 Speaker 1: really going on with my money? I want to really 545 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,440 Speaker 1: know what's going on. And I was one of the 546 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: real reason why I want I went to school. And 547 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 1: that's one thing I encouraged to go to school, man, 548 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,560 Speaker 1: because that knowledge is power. Man. Nobody can't ever take 549 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: that knowledge away from you. Man. You know, as we 550 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:02,960 Speaker 1: close out, I think of a proverb that says a 551 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: man of knowledge increases his strength, And that's what you 552 00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 1: just said. And that's one of the reasons to encourage 553 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: guys to become aware, to become educated, even if it's 554 00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,920 Speaker 1: in an entrepreneur, whatever you do, just become knowledgeable of it. 555 00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,800 Speaker 1: And that's one of the things we want to close with. Man, 556 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: thank you Stephen, thank you, Kevin, so glad you guys, 557 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: and thank you Roman so glad, Thank you guys. I 558 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 1: know you get somebody's enjoyed this, Legends and current players. 559 00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 1: The best is yet to come. This has been the 560 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: NFL Legends podcast. To provide feedback or request a topic 561 00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:58,800 Speaker 1: for discussion, email us at NFL Legends at nfl dot com.