1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Greece. My mom goes missing, then 2 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: sends a bizarre text to her grown daughter, stating they're 3 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: not gonna let me go. I love you and the 4 00:00:29,200 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 1: key to the house is under the flower pot. Her 5 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:38,680 Speaker 1: body discovered about sixty miles away from home, naked down 6 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: the side of a ravine, clutching a tree burned. What 7 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: happened to Deborah Collier aka Debbie I mean it? See Grace, 8 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us 9 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,639 Speaker 1: here at Fox Nay in series XM one eleven. Take 10 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at w XIA eleven. This morning, 11 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:10,200 Speaker 1: eleven Alive obtained a police report offering new details showing 12 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: Athens Cork County police working with Habersham County investigators on 13 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,039 Speaker 1: September eleventh to find colliers rented minivan which had been 14 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 1: pinned using satellite radio. The report says the vehicle was 15 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: unlocked and no one was inside. A police officer stated 16 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:25,600 Speaker 1: that he saw the same vehicle there the day before 17 00:01:25,640 --> 00:01:28,560 Speaker 1: around five pm. I've got an all star panel to 18 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: introduce to you, but first let me go to special 19 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 1: guest Cody Alcorn, Reporter eleven Alive w XIA. He's been 20 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: on the scene from the beginning. Now, we just heard 21 00:01:39,680 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: your colleague Joe Ripley state that a cop stated he 22 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 1: saw the rental vehicle. I believe it was a black 23 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: Chrysler PACIFICA there before five pm the next day. I've 24 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:55,400 Speaker 1: been losing around three seventeen. It was first spotted the 25 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: next day. I'm only asking because I want to narrow 26 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: the timeline. That's right, yeah, Gep. But he said that 27 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 1: he saw that same vehicle apart right there in that 28 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:09,280 Speaker 1: rural area of northeast Georgia the day before September tenth, 29 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: the same day she's reported missing. He saw that vehicle 30 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,080 Speaker 1: there about five pm. And he also noted though he 31 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 1: didn't be that was suspicious at the time because he 32 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:19,760 Speaker 1: says a lot of people in that area do pull off. 33 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: This is a rural areas to Luva Falls in that area, right, 34 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:29,679 Speaker 1: it's a pull off for a logging road. Sidney didn't 35 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 1: one of the cops or another witness state they saw 36 00:02:33,240 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: the vehicle there September ten, the day she was reported missing, 37 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,840 Speaker 1: at three seventeen pm. Okay, that's when the text message 38 00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 1: come through. You're both right, So spotted around five o'clock 39 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: September ten, So that is the end of my timeline 40 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: that we knew off for sure, although I believe when 41 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 1: she's sitting that bizarre text message, she was already kidnapped 42 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 1: or dead, because I don't think she sent that text message. Guys, 43 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 1: we're talking about mother Debbie Collier. Her body found charred 44 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: but not totally down the side of a ravine, along 45 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:13,839 Speaker 1: with a black blue tarp, a red tooteback, and near 46 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,480 Speaker 1: her rented vehicle. But where did it really all start? 47 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: Take a list to our friend Dave mac at crime 48 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:24,640 Speaker 1: online dot com. On Saturday, September tenth, at three seventeen pm, 49 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 1: Amanda beard And got an unexpected surprise from her mother, 50 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:33,000 Speaker 1: Debbie Callier. Without any warning, Debbie used Benmo and digitally 51 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: transferred two thousand, three hundred and eighty five dollars to 52 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: her daughter Amanda. Amanda wasn't expecting any money from her 53 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: mother and it wasn't something she normally did, but it 54 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,720 Speaker 1: was the text message that accompanied the money that shocked 55 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: and frightened Amanda. In the text with the money, Debbie 56 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,560 Speaker 1: call Your wrote, they are not going to let me go. 57 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 1: Love you. Joining me is a high profile criminal defense 58 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: attorney Renee Rockwell. You can find her on Facebook at 59 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:08,640 Speaker 1: Renee with two ease Renee dot Rockwell joining us out 60 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 1: of the Atlanta jurisdiction. No stranger to a courtroom. She 61 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: has tried well over one hundred jury trials and literally 62 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: thousands of Please, Renee, thank you for being with us. 63 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 1: This smells you know when you smell old fish, you 64 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: know immediately don't eat it. I'm not buying this. Something's wrong. 65 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: Who facing death rights? Oh, by the way, the key 66 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: of the house is under the flower pot. Nobody you 67 00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:45,000 Speaker 1: remember Gabby Petito? Renee Rockwell, Remember Gabby Petito and her 68 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 1: fiance Brian Laundry, who murdered her, was sending fake texts 69 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: to family members and they knew because she referred to 70 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: her grandfather or uncle by his name. That would be 71 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: like me calling my father Walter Malcolm Gray Senior instead 72 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: of saying daddy yny. Right then that was fake. Who 73 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: Renee would write a text? It says they're not gonna 74 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 1: let me go. I'm gonna die. Ps the flower pot 75 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 1: on the front porch while the keys under it. No, Nancy. 76 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: What's interesting is that she says they are not going 77 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:29,159 Speaker 1: to let me go Toma love you not I love you? 78 00:05:30,040 --> 00:05:33,559 Speaker 1: The money is interesting? Did she really send the money? 79 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 1: Did somebody else that knew how to get into her 80 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:40,400 Speaker 1: phone send the money? Here's the question, Nancy, where's the telephone? 81 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: Where's the cellphone? Yeah? I've been wondering that too. I 82 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: keep saying that the phone needs to be triangulated and tracked, 83 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,160 Speaker 1: and not only to find the cell phone Renee Rockwell, 84 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: but to also find out if anyone close to Debrah 85 00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 1: Collier's phone was traveling with her. Now, why would she 86 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,480 Speaker 1: leave the house with nothing but a driver's license in 87 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: a debit card and not her cell phone? That doesn't 88 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 1: make sense. Is a cell phone back at the house 89 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:09,800 Speaker 1: hasn't been found? But you're facing death and you think 90 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: to send a venmo and the amount? Karen start and 91 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:17,839 Speaker 1: joining me renowned psychologists joining us out of Manhattan. You 92 00:06:17,880 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 1: can find her on Twitter at Karen's psych and at 93 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: Karen Stark dot com. That's Karen When to see Karen. 94 00:06:25,600 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 1: The amount is bizarre, wasn't it, Cody Alcorn? Wasn't it? 95 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,480 Speaker 1: Twenty eight thirty five two eight hundred and thirty five 96 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,200 Speaker 1: dollars two thousand, three hundred and eighty five dollars. You 97 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 1: know you've better quick correcting me, young man. Okay, what 98 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:44,800 Speaker 1: was it? Two thousand, three hundred, two three hundred eighty five. Okay, 99 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: ondd number of Karen Stark. You know what it reminds 100 00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:53,160 Speaker 1: me of. It reminds me of the ransom letter. They 101 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: excuse me. Second ransom letter in the jam and a 102 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: Ramsey case. The first there was something ransom letter. I 103 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 1: guess it's a kidnapper just kicked back in the living 104 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: room of the Ramsey home. I'm afraid of detection in 105 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: the middle of the night. The second ransom letter stated 106 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:21,200 Speaker 1: the kidnapper killer wanted one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars. 107 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: Where do you get that number? Where? Okay, Cody, go 108 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,040 Speaker 1: ahead and tell me. Was that not the right number? 109 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: On the missing person's report, it says she sent the 110 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: TEXTA three seventeen for two thousand, three hundred eighty five 111 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 1: dollars through bend right the number the number, Cody, Why 112 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 1: two thousand, three hundred and eighty five dollars? Why not 113 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,239 Speaker 1: twenty five hundred? Why not three thousand? Why two three 114 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 1: eight five? Karen start in her moment of death, She's 115 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:53,920 Speaker 1: sending punctuated sentences. They're not gonna let me go Comma, 116 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 1: I love you. The key to the house is under 117 00:07:56,600 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 1: the flower pot, and here's twenty three hundred eighty five dollars. 118 00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:03,680 Speaker 1: That doesn't bother anybody. That's not a weird fact. I 119 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 1: keep looking over at you, Jackie, but you're showing no emotion. What. 120 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: I would not put you on a jerry with that 121 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 1: poker face. What about it, Karen Stark, There's nothing about 122 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: this that makes any sense, really, none of it, Karen Stark. No, 123 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna let you get away with a generalism today. No, 124 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:23,640 Speaker 1: there is no history between the two where this mother 125 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: has sent her daughter anything to them, though, and then 126 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:33,079 Speaker 1: suddenly she sends her this strange amounted bunny, and she 127 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: adds love you like I'll see you soon. And by 128 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: the way, the key is under the flower pot. That's 129 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: not the last thing, God help me, that I would 130 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,120 Speaker 1: say to my son her daughter, Key's under the flower pot. 131 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: I hope I don't go out like that. Renee Rockwell, 132 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 1: you and I have seen a lot of murder cases, 133 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: but I don't believe those would be my last words 134 00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: to the loves of my life. Key's under the flower pot, 135 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: like she didn't know where the key was. Nancy, she 136 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 1: knew where the key. I'm not worried about the twenty 137 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: three eighty five that might have been all she had 138 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:11,360 Speaker 1: in the account. You're right, You're absolutely all right. The 139 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: way you keep saying that she said they're not going 140 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: to let me go, Comma, I love you. She didn't 141 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,720 Speaker 1: even say I love you. She says love you. That's 142 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: she didn't send that. Nancy. I agree that whoever knew 143 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,559 Speaker 1: who had to hit on her phone at that. Okay, 144 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,920 Speaker 1: let's take a listen to our friend Dave Mackett Crime Online. 145 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: Listen to what he says about this mysterious text message. 146 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,920 Speaker 1: Amanda Bearden was so shocked when her mother used Venmo 147 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: to send nearly twenty four hundred dollars with the cryptic 148 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: text message, they said, they are not going to let 149 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: me go. Love you. There's a key to the house 150 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: in the blue flower pond by the door. Amanda immediately 151 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 1: called her mother's cell phone and went to voicemail. She 152 00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,560 Speaker 1: tried it again and again with the same result. Reaching 153 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:57,280 Speaker 1: out to Debbie's husband of nine years, Steve, he said 154 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,320 Speaker 1: he hadn't seen Debbie since he went to bed the 155 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: night before. Frustrated and scared, Amanda and Steve reported Debbie 156 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: missing around six pm. Less than three hours have passed 157 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:25,920 Speaker 1: since the cryptic message. I don't like that either. Time 158 00:10:25,960 --> 00:10:31,920 Speaker 1: Stories with Nancy Grace, Cody Alcorn special guests joining us 159 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:37,079 Speaker 1: for Investigative Reporter with eleven Alive. Wxia Atlanta, who's been 160 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:39,480 Speaker 1: on this case from the very beginning, has been knocking 161 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: on the doors of the neighbors. Would anybody talk to you, Cody. 162 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,520 Speaker 1: No one's talked to anybody that's went out to that neighborhood, 163 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,280 Speaker 1: and the only neighbors that have talked have been more 164 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: to the paper journalists who produce papers, saying that you know, 165 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: they see them, and they really didn't go out and 166 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: talk to anybody. They kind of just reclused into that home. 167 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 1: Tody Alicorn. I don't know if you've seen this before yet, 168 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 1: but there is a picture of her, Deborah Debbie Collier 169 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:18,920 Speaker 1: really beaten up, and the picture is from September twenty twenty, 170 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:21,800 Speaker 1: as I recall, the picture was twenty twenty September yep, 171 00:11:22,679 --> 00:11:26,960 Speaker 1: and she is really beaten up. Now. She says that 172 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:35,520 Speaker 1: she fell on pavement and hurt her face, which is 173 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: entirely possible. It's just something to percolate to just think about. 174 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 1: It was on her Facebook, thank you. It was on 175 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: her Facebook. That's right, That's where we found it on 176 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: her Facebook. No question that it's her. Did you know 177 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,160 Speaker 1: about that? I actually saw that this morning and someone 178 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:56,000 Speaker 1: sent that to me on Facebook after we did our 179 00:11:56,040 --> 00:11:58,720 Speaker 1: report last night. And again, you know, that's where people 180 00:11:58,760 --> 00:12:01,439 Speaker 1: are sending me seeing it is questionable, you know, her 181 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: posting this thing that you know, she planted her face 182 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: on a concrete sidewalk, So I think, you know a 183 00:12:06,920 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: lot of people are questioning that as well. And the 184 00:12:08,760 --> 00:12:11,679 Speaker 1: other thing too. A lot of people a question and 185 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,120 Speaker 1: we did as well, is if you send your daughter 186 00:12:15,200 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 1: a text seeing you've been kidnapped at three typically most 187 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 1: I know if my mom said me that, I would 188 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: call nine one immediately, but it was until three hours 189 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,200 Speaker 1: later they found a missing person's report. Yeah, well, let's 190 00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:34,320 Speaker 1: examine that. So the text came in three seventeen pm Saturday, 191 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:39,520 Speaker 1: September ten, I understand what actually take a listen to 192 00:12:39,760 --> 00:12:42,679 Speaker 1: our forensic crime online dot com family last heard from 193 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: Debbie call You're at three seventeen pm. Saturday, September tenth. 194 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: Less than three hours later, Debbie's husband, Steven, daughter Amanda 195 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: report Debbie missing. Steve tells police he last saw Debbie 196 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: the night before when he went to bed. Police are 197 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: skeptical until they hear that Steve and Debbie sleep in 198 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: separate rooms due to Steve snoring. Steve says Debbie's rented 199 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 1: Chrysler SUV within the driveway when he left for work 200 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:07,719 Speaker 1: that morning. Amanda tells police Debbie left the house with 201 00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:11,240 Speaker 1: nothing except her driver's license in debit guard Renee Rockwell, 202 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: and they sleep in separate rooms because he snores. Renee Rockwell, 203 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: is there a man on this planet that does not 204 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:22,760 Speaker 1: store Nancy, that does not bother me at all? The 205 00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:27,719 Speaker 1: sleeping in the separate bedroom, what's disturbing? Apparently nothing bothers you. 206 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:32,200 Speaker 1: What's taking so long to call the cop? When she 207 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,520 Speaker 1: sends the message that says they're not going to let 208 00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: me go? I agree. Unless there's some there's some there's 209 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: some monsters in her head that are rolling around that 210 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,960 Speaker 1: the daughter is not concerned about. No, the daughter has 211 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:49,000 Speaker 1: made it very clear that mother had no Debbie had 212 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:54,760 Speaker 1: no mental or emotional defects or instabilities. There is no 213 00:13:54,880 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 1: way that this is suicide due to the way the 214 00:13:58,200 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: body is found. I'm going to tell you about that. 215 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 1: I'm and I'll let Cody Alcorn tell you about that. 216 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 1: But this is a curiosity, Joe Scott, I'm getting to you. 217 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: Hold on, man, Joey Alcorn joining us w XIA eleven alive. 218 00:14:11,840 --> 00:14:17,000 Speaker 1: September eleven is a Sunday, right, okay? So where does 219 00:14:17,040 --> 00:14:19,960 Speaker 1: the husband work that he gets up on the morning 220 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 1: he sits, says he sees her at nine pm the 221 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: night before, which will be Friday night, September ninth. He 222 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 1: goes to bed at nine o'clock. My goodness, he must 223 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 1: be an early riser to go to bed at nine o'clock, 224 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: he says. It. Next morning he wakes up, he goes 225 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,840 Speaker 1: to work on Saturday morning, and he sees her car 226 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: or her rental car. She's been in a fender bender 227 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,200 Speaker 1: as a black pacifica in the driveway, which indicates that 228 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,840 Speaker 1: she's there. He didn't see her, he says, and he 229 00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:55,680 Speaker 1: went to work. Then nowhere from her until she sends 230 00:14:55,680 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: his mysterious bizarre text to her daughter and transfers her 231 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: twenty three eighty five via Venmo Where does he work 232 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,560 Speaker 1: on a Saturday morning? What does he do for a living? 233 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: Cody Alcorn. That's what we've been trying to figure out, 234 00:15:08,160 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: and I have not been able to figure that out. Firstly, 235 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: and I have not seen anyone with details. Got one 236 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,640 Speaker 1: thing for you that we found on LinkedIn someone with 237 00:15:17,720 --> 00:15:20,359 Speaker 1: his name in his area, and it's a very small population. 238 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: It's a loan specialist at a bank. We saw that, 239 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 1: but a photos not attached to it, so I'm not 240 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,880 Speaker 1: totally sure that's him. And I can tell you this. 241 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,960 Speaker 1: Banks are not open on Saturday. They're barely open at 242 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: three pm on Friday, all right, so I know they're 243 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 1: not open on Saturdays. Forget that. So where is he 244 00:15:42,080 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: going on Saturday morning? And he doesn't talk to his 245 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: wife all day long? I mean, maybe it's just me, 246 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,520 Speaker 1: you're a rockwell, but I'm constantly just for the fun 247 00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: of it, of course, looking up David, my husband, one life, 248 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: three sixty. You know he says he isn't work, is 249 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: he actually yes, He's always where he says he's going 250 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: to be, and he's always doing what he says he's doing. 251 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: So far, I've caught him many times being good. So 252 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: where did he go Cody Man think he could have 253 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:19,120 Speaker 1: gone to work on Saturday? You're Renee Rockwell piping in 254 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 1: go ahead, Yeah, he could have. I guess not illegals 255 00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: to go to work on Saturday. I think he worked 256 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,160 Speaker 1: every Saturday and every Sunday when you were a prosecutor. Well, 257 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:31,600 Speaker 1: you're right about that. Hey, you know what these are 258 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: in my notes? And Sidney is waving a sign at me. 259 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 1: I just want credit that I thought of this first, 260 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:39,000 Speaker 1: because it's in my type notes that I made this morning. 261 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: About her cell phone, I'm curious if she didn't take 262 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,360 Speaker 1: her cell phone with her from where did she send 263 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: the VENMO and send the text at three seventeen pm? 264 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,560 Speaker 1: Where was she? Do we have any evidence she was 265 00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: forcibly taken from the home. But you know what, I'm 266 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,239 Speaker 1: burying the lead. Let's do this. Take a listen to 267 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: Joe Ripley eleven alive. The reports stayed. Soon after the 268 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: van was found, A Collier's daughter later showed up to 269 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,400 Speaker 1: the scene emotional begging for answers in her mother's disappearance. 270 00:17:18,720 --> 00:17:21,680 Speaker 1: According to the report, she told the investigators her mother 271 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,560 Speaker 1: did not have any history of mental health issues and 272 00:17:24,680 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 1: denied any suicidal tendencies. She also stated that her mom 273 00:17:28,320 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: had a bad back and couldn't have walked far. Bad back, 274 00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: couldn't walk far and get this to this mom, this 275 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: loving mother and more from Joe Ripley Listen for. Report 276 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: indicates investigators saw a red tote bag near an uprooted 277 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 1: tree in the woods off Georgia Highway fifteen, along with 278 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: what they believe were the remains of a fire. They 279 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: also discovered a burnt blue tarp and a naked woman's body. 280 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: She was lying on her back and her abdomen appeared 281 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,320 Speaker 1: to be charred. That woman was later identified. It is 282 00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 1: collier to jose Goot Morgan, professor forensic Jacksonville State University, 283 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, host of 284 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:12,560 Speaker 1: a new hit series on iHeart, and at crime online 285 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 1: dot Com Body Bags with Joseph Scott Morgan. You know, 286 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,919 Speaker 1: the more you stage is seeing, the easier it is 287 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:25,639 Speaker 1: to get caught. Here's my theory, obviously, where her body 288 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: was found partially charred near a fire, near a partially 289 00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:35,159 Speaker 1: burned blue tarp and a red tote bag, where she 290 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: was grasping at a little sapling on the side of 291 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:46,359 Speaker 1: that ravine. That is not the primary crime scene. That's 292 00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: where she was dumped. It could be the secondary or 293 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:53,920 Speaker 1: tertiary crime scene. She was not killed there, So where 294 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 1: was she when she sent that text? And I think 295 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:01,360 Speaker 1: she was wrapped in that blue tart and transported there. 296 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:09,399 Speaker 1: Somebody tried to burn the evidence, and in their amateurish attempt, 297 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,919 Speaker 1: they did not realize it's hard to burn a body 298 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:18,080 Speaker 1: to the point where it's just ashes. Yeah, you're right 299 00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,160 Speaker 1: it What occurs here is that you have to literally 300 00:19:22,680 --> 00:19:25,719 Speaker 1: tend the fire for a protracted period of time, like 301 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,600 Speaker 1: Stephen Avery kil Teresa Halbake and making a murderer him. Yeah, 302 00:19:31,640 --> 00:19:35,600 Speaker 1: and you have to you have to go on firewatch 303 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 1: is essentially what it comes down to, and sit there 304 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:41,879 Speaker 1: and turn the fire, turn the coals, and continue to 305 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 1: add fuel. You make it sound like a barbecue and 306 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: I like it. Well, that's the reality of it, and 307 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,760 Speaker 1: that's what you You got to be fully committed. This 308 00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: to say the very least, is a half hearted attempt 309 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: to get rid of a body. Remember what they're saying 310 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: here is that she had severe burns on her abdomen. 311 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: You know, when you say that, you're not talking about 312 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:05,879 Speaker 1: something that involves the entire remain And I'm glad you 313 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: brought up the word ravine, Nancy, And this is why, 314 00:20:09,560 --> 00:20:12,640 Speaker 1: because that I think is kind of being lost here. 315 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: That's a big indicator to me. That means that whoever 316 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: went to this location had familiarity with this area, I 317 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: think personally, and they went down into this ravine with 318 00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:29,000 Speaker 1: the body to hide it, essentially, and a very half 319 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: hearted attempt. They want to get it out of sight, 320 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:33,719 Speaker 1: you know, the cars up on the road. But wait 321 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:35,159 Speaker 1: a minute, Wait a minute. I'm with you, and I 322 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: agree with everything that you just said, But how did 323 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 1: she get to that sapling and pull it if she 324 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,439 Speaker 1: were already dead when her body was disposed in the 325 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: blue tart. Yeah, I'm not buying that she actively pulled 326 00:20:51,240 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: it because lots of times when you and remember, it 327 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:56,639 Speaker 1: sounds as though, and they haven't released a lot of information, 328 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,560 Speaker 1: it sounds as though the tarp was down there, the 329 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: body may have rolled out in lots of times, you 330 00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 1: can't predict what a body is going to do when 331 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: you're rolling it down. Fire was there too, right, Cody Alcorn. 332 00:21:08,359 --> 00:21:11,600 Speaker 1: Wasn't the fire there and was a fresh fire? You 333 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:15,880 Speaker 1: could tell it had been recently probably put out. Yeah. 334 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:19,439 Speaker 1: In the police report from those responding to Louis Falls 335 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 1: Police officers and the Habersham County Deputies, the officer makes 336 00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 1: the know in his remarks that it was a fresh fire. 337 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,080 Speaker 1: It appeared that the fire was fresh. So if somebody 338 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: didn't just dump her down the ravine, did you hear 339 00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: that just got morgan what Cody Alcorn said? Nobody just 340 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: threw her down the ravine. Somebody went down there, started 341 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 1: a fire, tried to burn her. The tart was partially burned. 342 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:47,560 Speaker 1: There was a tote bag there. I would be about 343 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: three inches every tailpipe of Lowe's home, depot, Walmart, kmart, 344 00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: feed and seed landscape, you name it. Get video or 345 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 1: recollection of who bought a blue tark and gas cans. 346 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:09,639 Speaker 1: And that's another thing you have to think about because she, 347 00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:12,879 Speaker 1: whoever did this, would have had to have applied some 348 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of acceller in order just to initiate. Bodies don't 349 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:22,000 Speaker 1: just spontaneously the mate. They didn't rub two six together. No, 350 00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:27,119 Speaker 1: any weren't on that, Cody Alcorn or there was Could 351 00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: you detect the smell of gasoline because if gasolene or 352 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,120 Speaker 1: some other excellents used, you would most likely be able 353 00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,479 Speaker 1: to still smell it if they did. They did not 354 00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 1: write it in the incident report. But I also wanted 355 00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,920 Speaker 1: to point out too about the distance into this wooded area, 356 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: because again, the vehicle was parked right off Highway fifteen 357 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 1: and very rural area where people go. But they've took it, 358 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: walked in about fifty yards and then the Habersham County 359 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 1: deputy didn't anything, so we called in a canine. They 360 00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 1: went another fourth of a mile into the wood so 361 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,639 Speaker 1: it was really back in the woods. Yeah, yeah, they 362 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: waited about and wait, didn't she have a back probling? Yes, 363 00:23:07,119 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: good point, Karen start. I guarantee you she didn't walk 364 00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,879 Speaker 1: back there on a nature hype. All of her clothes 365 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:16,200 Speaker 1: are missing. No remnant of her clothing is found in 366 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 1: the fire pit that we know of, nor in her car. 367 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: I was distracted by a very odd question. Could you 368 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:25,080 Speaker 1: put that up? Sidney? Okay? Who should I blame that 369 00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 1: question on? Jackie or Sydney? What could you? What's the question? Again? 370 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 1: The sapling that was on her chest wasn't being held 371 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:35,399 Speaker 1: like death flowers. Okay, I hate to even repeat that, 372 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,719 Speaker 1: but just for the sake of you, know you trying? 373 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 1: Was the sapling held on her chest like death flowers? 374 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: I thought she was gripping a sapling, Jody Alcorn. So on. 375 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:50,879 Speaker 1: All of these reports are three reports from those officers, 376 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:55,119 Speaker 1: and they are quoted seeing grasping a small tree with 377 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:58,920 Speaker 1: her right hand, right hand, and the other one says 378 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: grasping a small with her right hand. So all three 379 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,919 Speaker 1: officers say grasping with her right hand. I don't know 380 00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: where you got a wreath on her chest like death flowers. 381 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,159 Speaker 1: I've never even heard the phrase death flowers. That's something 382 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: you came up with. No, because I'm going to see 383 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,400 Speaker 1: that over your head every time I look at her. 384 00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: Look at you, Cody Alcorn joining us from eleven Alive, Jesscott, 385 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,280 Speaker 1: you were jumping in hey, jes Scott, take a listen 386 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 1: to this our cut eleven. Why would Debbie Collier have 387 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: left her home in Athens? Why would she have gone 388 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:34,280 Speaker 1: to Habersham County, sixty miles from home? Debbie Collier had 389 00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: worked for years for a realty business in Athens, Clark County. 390 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,440 Speaker 1: She was the front office manager. No one there was 391 00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,760 Speaker 1: available to speak about her so far. Debbie Collier's family 392 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,680 Speaker 1: members have declined to respond to interview requests about her 393 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: as investigators worked to uncover who might have been threatening her, 394 00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: why she ended up here, and who killed her, and 395 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: why who was threatening her. She's a front office receptionist. 396 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,680 Speaker 1: I don't think she has any mob or gang ties. 397 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:05,680 Speaker 1: What are the what threat coming anything? Okay, Karen jump in. 398 00:25:05,960 --> 00:25:09,200 Speaker 1: I have a question for Joe Scott. I don't understand 399 00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 1: if she were already dead, how she could clash into 400 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: her right hand exactly. Yeah, I'm right here. I don't. 401 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:21,320 Speaker 1: I don't know that that she could. That's one That's 402 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 1: one of my points. If if people are in a 403 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,800 Speaker 1: fevered pitch, in order to get rid of a body, 404 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,159 Speaker 1: put as much distance as they can, they're going to 405 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,760 Speaker 1: dump the body wherever they possibly can, and sometimes they 406 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:35,520 Speaker 1: will roll them. You'll have bodies that will get hung 407 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 1: up in brush. Maybe they started the fire right there. 408 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 1: The problem is this, at this point in time, we 409 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,440 Speaker 1: don't know where this burnmark is on the ground in 410 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 1: relation to the body and also in relation to the 411 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 1: tarp itself. There's a spatial relationship that's going on here. 412 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,720 Speaker 1: I think what he's trying to say in regular people 413 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,119 Speaker 1: talk as where was the dead body in relation to 414 00:25:57,200 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: the fire in relationship everything. Yeah, but we know the 415 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:04,480 Speaker 1: tarp and the body were partially burned. Here's another thing, 416 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,240 Speaker 1: Renee Rockwell joining me, high profile defense attorney in the 417 00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: Atlanta jurisdiction. Renee, Clearly, this was not just a dump site, 418 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:17,600 Speaker 1: because somebody took her all the way there. You know, 419 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: she couldn't walk that far because of a back element. 420 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: All her clothes are missing. But we have no indication 421 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: of a rape, which means somebody stripped her but didn't 422 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,359 Speaker 1: rape her. We don't know that yet unless they're keeping 423 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: that to their vest exactly. We don't know that yet. 424 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,160 Speaker 1: But somebody took her all the way back. How far 425 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: back in the woods was it, Cody Alcorn more than 426 00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,880 Speaker 1: a fourth of a mile. That's a long way to 427 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: drag a body with a body all the way back 428 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: there to burn her. They weren't just gonna dump her. 429 00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: They were gonna get rid of the evidence. Renee. I 430 00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:56,040 Speaker 1: don't think that it was just a dump It looks 431 00:26:56,080 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 1: to me like the scene was staged. If they put 432 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:04,800 Speaker 1: up sappling in her hand. Good job on one other 433 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 1: thing about this area where she is in Habersham County, 434 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:12,160 Speaker 1: This Saint flat Land. This is rolling you're you're talking 435 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:16,200 Speaker 1: to You're literally in the foothills of Appalachia right there. Well, 436 00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,080 Speaker 1: that's the beginning of the Appalachian Trail. Yeah, they talk 437 00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: about this area in the Georgia State Anthem up in 438 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: the hills of Habersham down to the valleys of Glen 439 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: Habersham and the State Poem. Habersham is where the Appalachian 440 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 1: Mountains begin. So you're right, and your point is My 441 00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,920 Speaker 1: point is is that whoever did this is strong and robust. 442 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: You're not going to have some kind of diminutive person 443 00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:45,560 Speaker 1: that's going to take this woman out. And I don't 444 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: care about her size, all right, because you've also got 445 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: to take all of the other items out there to 446 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,280 Speaker 1: this location as well. You're talking about tarps, all these 447 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: other things, and we're supposing that there is some type 448 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 1: of accelerant that's being toted along this trail as well. 449 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: Had to be at night, don't you agree it had 450 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: to be at night? I would think. So Van's going 451 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,679 Speaker 1: to make multiple trips back and forth to the suv, 452 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,320 Speaker 1: which is pristine. By the way, nothing in the car 453 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:13,639 Speaker 1: pro but evlens. We're going to get something from the 454 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: processing of the scene. Some of them have to go 455 00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: back and forth with the body, the gas, everything they 456 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: need to make a fire, the tote bag, the tarp. 457 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I would not risk hauling that out of 458 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,160 Speaker 1: the back of an suv, would you know. And that's 459 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,280 Speaker 1: that brings me to my next point. There's probably obviously 460 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: more than one vehicle involved in this as well. Well, 461 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,560 Speaker 1: I don't think that that's that well, you know, if 462 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: they don't have any other kind of evidence that they're 463 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,560 Speaker 1: I don't think they're giving us everything. At this point. 464 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: There's going to be trace evidence in that van, and 465 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,760 Speaker 1: it's going to be linked back to somebody. Was somebody 466 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:54,280 Speaker 1: wearing gloves in the van, Was somebody apps in any 467 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of touch DNA that they might have dropped off 468 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,800 Speaker 1: of the body relative skin cells. I don't think that 469 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: they fully processed it at this point. There's there were 470 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: either two occupants in that vand possible even three, or 471 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: there was an additional vehicle going out there. Now, okay, 472 00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: so you want me to thank Joe Scott that up 473 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 1: to three people kid out the slightly from her home 474 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: kill her for what and there's no burglary, there's no 475 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,959 Speaker 1: robbery so far we know of no rate, take her body, 476 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: strip her down. I wonder if they stripped her down 477 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: because they didn't want her clothing to identify her, and 478 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,040 Speaker 1: then try to burn her body and fail miserably. All 479 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,080 Speaker 1: she's got as a char mark on her abdomen. That's 480 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: a really bad job. Time stories with Nancy Grace, Not 481 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,240 Speaker 1: to Cody Alicorn joining us, Let's throw another wrench in 482 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:07,040 Speaker 1: the works. Jodi Alcorn eleven alive. The husband says he 483 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: saw her the night before at nine pm when he 484 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:14,000 Speaker 1: goes to sleep her suv rented suv was in the 485 00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,080 Speaker 1: driveway the next morning when he went to work on Saturday, 486 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 1: but he didn't see her. Doesn't that directly conflict with 487 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: what the neighbors say about hearing an argument that's true? 488 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:29,959 Speaker 1: There is a New York Post article that says that 489 00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:36,400 Speaker 1: they heard that night yelling from that home a female voice. Right, Yes, correct. 490 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:39,239 Speaker 1: They also said that they heard yelling on weekends and 491 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: on evenings when visitors would be there, and that it 492 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 1: was a young woman's voice. I don't know how they 493 00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: could differentiate between that, but that's what they're saying. In 494 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: any event, we have no reason to suspect the neighbors 495 00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: of lying. So that doesn't really jibe with what the 496 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,800 Speaker 1: husband is saying. Is that correct, Cody, according to this 497 00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,200 Speaker 1: missing person's report, I mean those are conflicting because it 498 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,320 Speaker 1: does say that, you know, he went to vote around nine. 499 00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,040 Speaker 1: They slept in different bedrooms at the last time he 500 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: saw her, and he didn't check on her the next day. Okay, guys, 501 00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: we know that the location of the vehicle was found 502 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:21,120 Speaker 1: because the serious x N and the rental car can 503 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,960 Speaker 1: be traced a little know. In fact, take a listen 504 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,760 Speaker 1: to our cut eight our friend Jennifer Bellamy. Right now, 505 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 1: investigators are trying to figure out what happened after a 506 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 1: woman was found dead near Tallulah Falls in North Georgia 507 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: on Sunday. A Serious x AND representative called Habersham County 508 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:40,440 Speaker 1: authorities about a vehicle belonging to a missing person, pining 509 00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,719 Speaker 1: its location in Clarksville. Habersham County deputies and canine started 510 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: searching for the driver. They found a red tote bag 511 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 1: and a partially burned blue tarp before finding the woman's 512 00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:53,720 Speaker 1: body down in embankment and the last couple of hours, 513 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 1: authorities have confirmed the victim is Deborah Collier from Athens. 514 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: Anyone with information is asked to please contact police. I 515 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,320 Speaker 1: want to talk about the fact that the husband didn't 516 00:32:05,320 --> 00:32:10,719 Speaker 1: see her the morning he left, and more important, the 517 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: fact that police and sheriffs in that jurisdiction are saying 518 00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: that they do not suspect a kidnap or a suicide. Well, 519 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: obviously he's not a suicide, but they don't suspect a kidnap. 520 00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,959 Speaker 1: Do I have that right, Cody Alcorn. That's corrected. They 521 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,640 Speaker 1: came out late yesterday afternoon and the chief deputy who 522 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: was over this case put that in black and white 523 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,200 Speaker 1: writing and said that they do not believe this is related. 524 00:32:40,240 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 1: There's no evidence supporting it was a kidnapping or that 525 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:48,040 Speaker 1: this was a suicide. That tells me a lot. If 526 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,840 Speaker 1: the sheriff is stating that in the legal sense of 527 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:54,520 Speaker 1: the word Renee Rockwell, that means she was not taken 528 00:32:54,600 --> 00:33:00,200 Speaker 1: from her home forcibly right, they're saying that they believe 529 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,920 Speaker 1: that it did not happen there, obviously, and they're saying 530 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,920 Speaker 1: that they don't think that you've had anything to do 531 00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: with somebody transporting her before her death. So where does 532 00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 1: that tell you It happened at the home. I agree 533 00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: or disagree? Well, that's what he's looking like. But you 534 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:21,920 Speaker 1: know he's given statement. Her husband has given statement. So 535 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: the minute that they find any conflicting information that he's 536 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: gonna you know, he's gonna have a one on it. 537 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: And you know what else is interesting, Nancy, there's two 538 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 1: separate spots of this case can be prosecuted in Habersham 539 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: and in her own home county. What about it? Way 540 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:44,640 Speaker 1: in just got Morgan the sheriff is saying it wasn't 541 00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:48,440 Speaker 1: a kidnap. Does that mean she left voluntarily and just 542 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,840 Speaker 1: what fell down the ravine and rolled into a fire. Yeah, 543 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,440 Speaker 1: I ain't happening. And you know, when you when you 544 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:58,840 Speaker 1: start to when an official like this begins to exclude possibilities, 545 00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: that indication they're kind of showing their cards a little 546 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,479 Speaker 1: bit that they have some kind of information relative to 547 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 1: what they're thinking happened at that particular time. Because listen, 548 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:14,440 Speaker 1: she wasn't kidnapped, and that means you're transporting a dead body. 549 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,839 Speaker 1: That's only that I don't know for me logically, that's 550 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,800 Speaker 1: that's really the only point you can come to. You 551 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,320 Speaker 1: So you have to determine at what location? And also 552 00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:26,360 Speaker 1: very important here and I'd ask Cody to kind of 553 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,879 Speaker 1: verify this as well. They haven't release the cause of death. 554 00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,480 Speaker 1: Only trauma that we've really heard about thus far as 555 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 1: is burning. We don't know cause of death. What about it, 556 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,799 Speaker 1: Cody Alcorn. That's going an issue with us in the 557 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 1: news room trying to get that detail. But in the 558 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,799 Speaker 1: same sense that they released the details yesterday, they also 559 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: said the coroner's office did take possession, transported her body 560 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,719 Speaker 1: to the GBI Crime Lab, which is our state Bureau 561 00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:52,520 Speaker 1: of Investigation, and as of the yesterday, ten days later, 562 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,279 Speaker 1: no report regarding findings of the autopsy. So I think 563 00:34:55,280 --> 00:34:57,799 Speaker 1: they're just withholding that information. I think they know, they're 564 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 1: just not giving it to us. Definitely a little more information. 565 00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,120 Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Zach Summer CBS forty six. 566 00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:09,440 Speaker 1: He may take my world from me. Debbie's daughter Amanda 567 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 1: and her stepfather Stephen, reported her mother missing on the 568 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,440 Speaker 1: evening of September tenth. Stephen said he'd seen his wife 569 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:17,600 Speaker 1: the night before and that her rental was still in 570 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,279 Speaker 1: the driveway when he loved for work that morning. I 571 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:24,000 Speaker 1: started going to all the different places that I thought 572 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,399 Speaker 1: she would go like Walmart, Alta. I mean, I drove 573 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,160 Speaker 1: around for at least two hours. That tells me, Cody Alcorn, 574 00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 1: that the daughter went looking for the mother and couldn't 575 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: find her. That's what That's what that appears to be. 576 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: And again, you know, a lot of people who have 577 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,600 Speaker 1: reached out to us have said, if someone said, hey, 578 00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:49,920 Speaker 1: mom's been kidnapped, you immediately go to police. I did 579 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:51,640 Speaker 1: reach out to her this morning for a came on 580 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:55,400 Speaker 1: this show, and I've got her back from her because again, 581 00:35:55,480 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 1: there's a lot of questions about that timeline. Guys, we're 582 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:04,240 Speaker 1: hearing more about the evening before that the daughter had 583 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,080 Speaker 1: dinner with the mother that they left in separate cars. 584 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:15,279 Speaker 1: You heard our cut twelve, Let's take another. Listen to 585 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:20,800 Speaker 1: our cut fourteen. She was a beautiful, time giving woman, 586 00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: and Amanda says the last time she saw her mom 587 00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: was Friday night. They ate dinner, handsome errands and went 588 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: home separately. She had this message for her mother's killer. 589 00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: I just wanted them to rite in hill I do, sir. 590 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,640 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not going to paint my pain away. 591 00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,560 Speaker 1: I know it's not, but I want justice from my mom. 592 00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: In my mind, that explains the delay that we were 593 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,440 Speaker 1: discussing earlier. I believe it was you, Karen Start, why 594 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:57,520 Speaker 1: the daughter waited three hours and Cody Alcorn was at 595 00:36:57,520 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 1: the daughter or the husband her step father that reported 596 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: Devor missing. On the missing person's report for Matham's Clark 597 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,600 Speaker 1: County Police, it lists Stephen as the reporting person and 598 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 1: Amanda plicit his other so it appears he is the 599 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,640 Speaker 1: one being there. Yes, okay, so she goes looking, Karen 600 00:37:15,719 --> 00:37:18,440 Speaker 1: Start for her mother. She goes looking from her mother. 601 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 1: That you know, when I think about it, I think 602 00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 1: you can relate to this Nancy. If you get such 603 00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:29,360 Speaker 1: a strange text message like that, you'd go looking for 604 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,400 Speaker 1: your mother. You would immediately called the police. I agree. 605 00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: I agree with you, Karen Start when I quickly too early. 606 00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,440 Speaker 1: We've got to see all the phones, we've got to 607 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,439 Speaker 1: pay all the phone and we've got to see if 608 00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:44,320 Speaker 1: he's committed to any kind of position I mean in 609 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: the husband. Just Scott final thought, Oh yeah, absolutely. Electronics 610 00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: are going to be the key in this Nancy that 611 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:52,880 Speaker 1: Venmo deposits. That's going to play really big in that. 612 00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,239 Speaker 1: I want to know where she was. Was that cell 613 00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,200 Speaker 1: phone in the home? When that text was sent, Cody 614 00:37:58,239 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 1: Alcorn with US keeping us updated on the very lightest 615 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 1: goodbye friend M.