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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Bridget and this is Annie, and you're

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Speaker 1: listening to stuff Mom never told you. Um quick trigger warning,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about Louis c K. If that's a trigger

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Speaker 1: for you, I can imagine why it would be. Just

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Speaker 1: know that we're talking about today. So we wanted to

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Speaker 1: revisit this episode that we did about Louis c K

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Speaker 1: and his apology and me too, because Louis c K

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Speaker 1: has decided it is a good time to be back

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Speaker 1: in the spotlight. In late August, Louis c K made

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Speaker 1: his first comedy appearance since admitting to exposing himselves and

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Speaker 1: masturbating at a handful of women over his career. He

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Speaker 1: did a surprise set at the Comedy Seller in New York. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and as you can imagine, this was an uncomfortable experience

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Speaker 1: for some audience members. Two women who sat through cks

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Speaker 1: set told Vulture that though the small venues audience was

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Speaker 1: overwhelmingly supportive of the comedian, one joke about rape whistles

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Speaker 1: was uncomfortable, and that there seemed to be a divide

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Speaker 1: between how men and women reacted to c k's presence.

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Speaker 1: One woman said it felt like he was being thrust

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Speaker 1: upon the audience without telling them. The audience was very

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Speaker 1: loud and c K walked in. They were clearly supportive

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Speaker 1: and surprised, and he showed up. But there were a

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Speaker 1: number of women sitting in the front row. According to Vulture,

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Speaker 1: from her seat to the left of the stage, she

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Speaker 1: could see a pair of women sitting stone faced. Her friend,

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Speaker 1: who asked not to be identified, noticed the same reaction.

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Speaker 1: She said, there at least four or five females that

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Speaker 1: I could see, and three or four of them were

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Speaker 1: not having it. They were just looking at him, deadpan, straight,

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Speaker 1: not having it. She went on and said that the

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Speaker 1: audience was mostly white, with lots of couples. Both women

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Speaker 1: say the set was awkward, but the first woman was

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Speaker 1: particularly upset by it. Quote it was an all male

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Speaker 1: set to begin with, then sort of exacerbated by c

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Speaker 1: ks presents. If someone had heckled him, I think they

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Speaker 1: would have been heckled out. It felt like there were

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Speaker 1: a lot of aggressive men in the audience and very

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Speaker 1: quiet women. Is the kind of vibe that doesn't allow

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Speaker 1: for dissenting voice. You're just expected to be a good

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Speaker 1: audience member. You're considered a bad sport if you speak out.

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Speaker 1: Here's my thing. If I hire a baby center, spend

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Speaker 1: money for a ticket, take the train all the way

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Speaker 1: into the comedy seller, you know, buy a drink, all

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Speaker 1: of that. If I go through all of those steps

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Speaker 1: and Luis c K makes a surprise appearance, my night

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Speaker 1: is ruined. My night is ruined. And so I just

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Speaker 1: think it's so telling the kind of person Lubis c

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Speaker 1: K is that he felt it was appropriate to spring

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Speaker 1: a surprise comedy set on people who didn't know he

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Speaker 1: was going to be there. I think I think that really,

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Speaker 1: for me, tells you all you need to know. Like

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Speaker 1: if he really was about, you know, making a comeback,

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Speaker 1: then put your name on a god marquee and sell

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Speaker 1: tickets at say Louis c K, and people can decide

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Speaker 1: whether they're going to go or not. But to have

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Speaker 1: it be a surprise set at a place where he knows,

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Speaker 1: like he he kind of got his start and was

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Speaker 1: a big part of his career, where no one is

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Speaker 1: going to boo him, or if you get up and

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Speaker 1: make a scene, people are going to, you know, scream

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Speaker 1: at you. I think putting that on unsuspecting people who

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Speaker 1: are just like trying to have a nice night is

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Speaker 1: so awful. And so I think it's so telling the

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Speaker 1: kind of person he is. By the way, on Twitter,

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Speaker 1: I saw a lot of people being like, oh, well

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Speaker 1: he's you know, he served his time, blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Excuse me. I mean, he basically went away for a

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Speaker 1: couple of months, and as far as I know, what

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Speaker 1: did he do to sort of make amends? And he

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Speaker 1: donate lots of money? Like what like, what did he

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Speaker 1: what did he do? Like? What actionable steps did he

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Speaker 1: take other than just be a rich guy who was

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Speaker 1: not on Twitter for a few months. Yeah. I can

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Speaker 1: only just thinking about how you you go in to

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Speaker 1: an experience like this and you think, oh, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: have a good time to night, we're gonna laugh and

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Speaker 1: maybe get some relief from like me too, or from

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Speaker 1: the constant deluge of news, and then to be confronted

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Speaker 1: unsuspecting with that is awful, just an awful thing. And again,

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Speaker 1: maybe you don't want to think about your sexual assault

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Speaker 1: when you're trying to watch comedy, So maybe not. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't want to. Maybe you don't want to be

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Speaker 1: in the in the room with an admitted sex criminal.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe that doesn't in like a safe situation. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you don't want to pay money to be in the

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Speaker 1: room with us admitted sex criminal. That's that's a reasonable

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Speaker 1: a reasonable position. Oh and by the way, in case

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Speaker 1: you're thinking, oh, like, maybe he's just testing the waters,

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Speaker 1: His stand up material included a joke about rape whistles.

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Speaker 1: According to the two women that Vulture spoke to, his

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Speaker 1: set included a joke about the phrase clean as a whistle,

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Speaker 1: which built up to a joke about how rape whistles

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Speaker 1: are not clean. One of the women said, when he

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Speaker 1: said rape whistle, people were laughing, and I was just

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Speaker 1: sitting there like, oh my, this is so uncomfortable and

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Speaker 1: so disgusting. Everybody around me was laughing. That was depressing.

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Speaker 1: Let me tell you something. If I go to a

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Speaker 1: comedy a comedy act and Louisy, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: thee'll do, but it will not be pretty like it

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Speaker 1: will be bridget Todd come up podcaster removed from Louis

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Speaker 1: from said, because I will make the biggest scene in

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Speaker 1: the If you think you've seen a scene, I would

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Speaker 1: make the biggest scene. And I don't blame these women

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Speaker 1: for not wanting to make a scene because you weren't

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Speaker 1: suspecting you weren't expecting to have to deal with this

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Speaker 1: kind of thing going to a comedy show, So you're thinking,

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Speaker 1: you know, do I get up and leave? Like I

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Speaker 1: could not in good faith sit and watch a Louisy

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Speaker 1: Caset without getting up, or I would have been It

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Speaker 1: would have been an uncomfortable situation. So I don't blame

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Speaker 1: these ladies for not, you know, throwing tomatoes at him

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Speaker 1: or whatever. But I guess what I'm saying is that

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Speaker 1: nobody should be putting that situation without prior warning, and

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Speaker 1: I think it's shitty that that's how he chose to

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Speaker 1: stage his comeback. Agreed, So we hope that you find

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Speaker 1: this episode, I guess, not enjoyable, but informative and it

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Speaker 1: maybe gives some more some more context to this whole situation. Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is Bridget and this is Emily, and you're listening

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Speaker 1: to stuff mom never told you, and today I have

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Speaker 1: to give a trigger warning. Not super thrilled to be

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Speaker 1: coming back to this topic again so soon, but here

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Speaker 1: we are. Men continue to be terrible in the Hollywood

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Speaker 1: media landscape. So we're back at it again. And me

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Speaker 1: to part two, the louise E k Edition. Now several

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Speaker 1: of y'all tweeted at us after Louise K released his

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Speaker 1: apology for apology in air quotes, I'm actually gonna just

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Speaker 1: call it a statement because he makes more sense. There

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Speaker 1: was no apology his statement regarding allegations that he had

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Speaker 1: been non consensually masturbating in uput of women in writer's

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Speaker 1: rooms and in the comedy world for a very long time.

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Speaker 1: Those allegations, as we all now know, turned out to

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Speaker 1: be very true. Several of you wrote in asking what

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Speaker 1: we thought about this situation, his statement and whether or

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Speaker 1: not it was authentic and genuine. So today we're really

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Speaker 1: going to unpack what led up to this moment, how

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Speaker 1: rumors in the comedy and Hollywood and media landscape really

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Speaker 1: kind of we're all accurate in this case, and what

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Speaker 1: it means for Hollywood and women going forward. Now. The

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Speaker 1: last time, at the end of our me Too episode,

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Speaker 1: which we by the way, we're not intending to make

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Speaker 1: a series, but it's starting to feel like it might

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Speaker 1: become one, we had wrapped that conversation up by talking

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Speaker 1: about this so called witch hunt. First of all, I'm

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Speaker 1: still excited and motivated by this so called witch hunt.

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Speaker 1: I think this is like the witch hunt rolling out. However,

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Speaker 1: there was some concern around due process and like, is

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Speaker 1: this going to become, uh, you know, the rumor mill

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Speaker 1: run amuck. And I think we are starting to see

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Speaker 1: real accusations being put forth and actually resulting in serious

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Speaker 1: ramifications for every sexual predator, accept our president apparently Trump alert.

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Speaker 1: But one of you brilliant listeners actually tweeted at us

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Speaker 1: this really interesting component of the witch hunt which is

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Speaker 1: now gleefully underway, that I thought was so on point.

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Speaker 1: So thanks to Coyote Meal who tweeted at us, women

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Speaker 1: call men out on their bad behavior. Men wine and

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Speaker 1: cry quote, it's a witch hunt, no, boys. Witch Hunts

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Speaker 1: were when powerful men imprisoned and killed independent women. And

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Speaker 1: that's not your term to borrow hashtag take back, witch hunt,

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Speaker 1: hashtag history. And then she treated at mom Stone podcast

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Speaker 1: and full frontal sam b and I just thought that

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Speaker 1: is such a good point. This idea that this is

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Speaker 1: a witch hunt that they can wine and freak out

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Speaker 1: and complain about is ironic considering women were persecuted for

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Speaker 1: nothing other than I don't know, intelligence or independence, independence,

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Speaker 1: maybe having pockets when that wasn't when that was caused

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Speaker 1: for suspicion and this is the witch hunt edition, like

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Speaker 1: this is actually holding people accountable. Unfortunately, this is leading

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Speaker 1: to serious ramifications for folks like Louis Ka. It really is.

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Speaker 1: And even when we first recorded our last episode on

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Speaker 1: Me Too, which wasn't even that long, agough, a handful more,

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Speaker 1: you know, powerful people in Hollywood have gone down because

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Speaker 1: of allegations similar to those that Louis k found himself with.

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Speaker 1: In no way is this a complete list. There are

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Speaker 1: so many more. If we were to list them all,

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Speaker 1: we'd beat her all day because that's how gross this is. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So far, we have Bret Radner, very powerful Hollywood director,

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Speaker 1: who was accused by a handful of actresses for sexual

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Speaker 1: misconduct and allegations. We mentioned Kevin Spacey's allegations in an

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Speaker 1: earlier version of our Me Too podcast. Well, now Netflix

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Speaker 1: has canceled House of Cards, and really we've seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of swift movement for getting justice for his victims,

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Speaker 1: which is interesting to me because part of me wonders

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Speaker 1: if it's because he's a man and his victims were

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Speaker 1: male that it was so swift. Even with Harvey Weinstein,

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Speaker 1: it seemed like there was a couple of days where

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Speaker 1: it was like, Oh, what's gonna happen? Is he going

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Speaker 1: to get the boot? Blah blah blah. Would we believe

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Speaker 1: women exactly? Kevin Spacey, It seems very very quick. Another

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Speaker 1: instance that I found really telling and kind of fascinating

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Speaker 1: is this case with Biju Phillips. Basically, when Biju Phillips

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Speaker 1: is in this movie Bully back in the early two thousand's,

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Speaker 1: one of her co stars, Daniel Frenzies, you might know

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Speaker 1: as Damien from the movie Mean Girls, which of course

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Speaker 1: is a classic, He came out with allegations that when

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Speaker 1: they were filming the movie Bully way back when b

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Speaker 1: Phillips is pretty terrible to him. Now he's a gay man,

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Speaker 1: she's a woman. But that just goes to show you

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Speaker 1: that sexual harassment in the workplace isn't just man to woman.

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Speaker 1: It can be anyone to anyone, because it's really about power.

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Speaker 1: So he alleges that she made fun of his body

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Speaker 1: when he had to take his clothes off for different scenes,

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Speaker 1: that she would often make fun of him for being

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Speaker 1: gay in front of the other co stars. I mean,

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Speaker 1: she was harassing. That's harassing to harass, and it really

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Speaker 1: goes to show that these cases can often be about

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Speaker 1: power and making the other person feel powerless and exploiting

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Speaker 1: these power dynamics. And so again, this isn't something that

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Speaker 1: just happens men to women, although that tends to be

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Speaker 1: the conversation that we're having in Hollywood. It can happen

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Speaker 1: or men to men, It can happen to anyone, right.

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Speaker 1: Michael Risky's from NPR is the latest whose name is

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Speaker 1: in the headlines. NPR has been doing its own reporting

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Speaker 1: on it and an investigation into the allegations coming from

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Speaker 1: a lot of female producers at NPR. Matthew Weener, the

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Speaker 1: creator of Admin, is making headlines for allegations of sexual assaults. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: What I found so heartbreaking about the allegations of surrounding

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Speaker 1: Matthew Leaner is that this happened to a writer on

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Speaker 1: the show, Cater Gordon, and basically she her career was

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Speaker 1: on an upswing, right. She won an Emmy for her

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Speaker 1: work on Mad Men. She went from being an assistant

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Speaker 1: to a writer, and these allegations really had a big

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Speaker 1: impact on her career. She says, I had the Emmy,

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Speaker 1: but instead of being able to use that as a launchpad,

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Speaker 1: for the rest of my career. It became an anchor

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Speaker 1: because I felt I had to answer to the speculative

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Speaker 1: stories in the press. I eventually walked away instead of

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Speaker 1: fighting back. So she's someone whose career really never bounced back,

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Speaker 1: and that her career success actually became a burden because

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Speaker 1: of her association with this guy who she rasped her God.

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Speaker 1: And then we would be remiss to not mentioned Roy Moore,

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Speaker 1: the Alabama Senate nominee who is being asked now to

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Speaker 1: step aside by an unusual suspect, Mitch McConnell, who says,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I believe the women. I thought that

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Speaker 1: was an interesting Mitch McConnell quote after allegations of child

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Speaker 1: molestation in response to allegations that he was basically hitting

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Speaker 1: on and assaulting fourteen year old girl. Yeah, watching our

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Speaker 1: elected leaders and lawmakers say things like, well, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: non consensual because she was into it, or it was

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Speaker 1: actually romantic. He didn't have sex with her, it was

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Speaker 1: very romantic. He would play guitar and be really sweet

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Speaker 1: to her, as if that's not disgusting. And also, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and he was victim blaming in his statements about it. Saying,

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Speaker 1: you think it's a coincidence she waited all this time

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Speaker 1: to make these allegations right before my election, right before

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Speaker 1: this critical point in my career, and I'm thinking, dude,

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Speaker 1: this is the time, this is the time to take

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Speaker 1: people down. Like she's got the whole zeitgeist behind her.

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Speaker 1: Of course she's going to do this right now. I

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Speaker 1: don't blame her for exactly staying silent or not publicly

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Speaker 1: getting attention that she deserves to call you out on

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Speaker 1: this BS exact place. So it definitely seems like we're

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Speaker 1: in a cultural moment where people who have been silent

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Speaker 1: for a long time feel like they are empowered to

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Speaker 1: be silent no more. And that's something I'm really happy

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Speaker 1: to see. I'm happy that people all along the spectrum

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Speaker 1: are calling out inappropriate workplace and sexual harassment because it's

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Speaker 1: you know, it's high time, and it's it seems like

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Speaker 1: do process is still do process, but now people are

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Speaker 1: maybe more likely to believe victims for the first time ever.

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Speaker 1: You know, maybe this is a great time to make

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Speaker 1: your voice heard if you are a victim, because the

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Speaker 1: likelihood of being believed, I don't think it's ever been higher,

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Speaker 1: totally so taking it back to Louis c K for

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Speaker 1: a minute, if you listen to our earlier episode about

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Speaker 1: the me to campaign, one of the things that came

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Speaker 1: up a lot is this idea of gossip and rumors

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Speaker 1: and how even though I think that we're conditioned to

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Speaker 1: just dismiss gossip and dismiss rumors and say, oh, do

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Speaker 1: you have any proof? Oh, you know, is there any

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Speaker 1: hard evidence, a lot of times when it comes to

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Speaker 1: things like harassment and sexual assault, gossip and rumors can

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Speaker 1: kind of function as a way to warn other and

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Speaker 1: to spread the truth about what's actually happening. And so

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Speaker 1: these Louis k rumors have been around on the Internet

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Speaker 1: and in comedy scenes for a very long time. Right,

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Speaker 1: if you're all read into the comments section of certain

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Speaker 1: feminist blogs or what's going on in comedy scenes, you've

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Speaker 1: no doubt heard these rumors. And the longest time, people

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Speaker 1: would often say, this is just rumors, this is just

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Speaker 1: one person, this is just one story, you know, dismissing them,

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Speaker 1: and actually it turned out to be very true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's interesting if you look all

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Speaker 1: the way back to twelve, Gawker made this really interesting

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Speaker 1: editorial choice to run a piece titled which beloved comedian

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Speaker 1: likes to force female comics to watch him jerk off,

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Speaker 1: which was positive as a question and really describe what

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Speaker 1: was happening with Louis c K. But they made the

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Speaker 1: choice to not name the suspect. I remember reading that

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Speaker 1: article when it was published back in twelve and as

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Speaker 1: soon as I read it, I was like, I think

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Speaker 1: it's Louis King because he talks about masturbation, he does

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Speaker 1: a lot, and he just seemed I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: didn't have any proof. I didn't have any evidence. I

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Speaker 1: just had a feeling. I just had a feeling it

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Speaker 1: was him. It's like the rumor mill was fully functional.

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Speaker 1: And later in April, comedian Jen Kirkman talks about a

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Speaker 1: quote known PERV on her podcast without naming any names.

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Speaker 1: Once again, she said, and I quote, I had another

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Speaker 1: guy who's a very famous comic. He's probably at Cosby

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Speaker 1: level at this point. He is lauded as a genius.

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Speaker 1: He's basically a French filmmaker. At this point, you know,

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Speaker 1: new material every year. He's a known PERV, and there's

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Speaker 1: a lockdown on talking about him. His guy friends are

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Speaker 1: standing by him and you can't say a bad thing

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Speaker 1: about him. And I've been told by people, well say it,

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Speaker 1: then say it if it's true. If I say it,

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Speaker 1: my career is over. My manager and my agent have

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Speaker 1: told me that they didn't threaten it. They just said

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Speaker 1: it to me. They just said to me, you know what, Jen,

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Speaker 1: it's not worth it because then you'll be torn apart.

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Speaker 1: Look at the Cosby women. Something I find so telling

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Speaker 1: about her statement is that she doesn't think it was

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Speaker 1: a threat. It was just a fact. If you talk

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Speaker 1: about this, if you're done, yeah, it's I mean, that's

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Speaker 1: what's so scary about people at the peak of their

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Speaker 1: career success like Louis Kay. I mean, he was kicking it,

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Speaker 1: and so to be the wet blanket right to be

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Speaker 1: the the naysayer about the beloved comedian. It just comes

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Speaker 1: with so much personal risk. No one wanted to do

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Speaker 1: it alone. And furthermore, his manager, Dave Becky, was arguably

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Speaker 1: even more powerful than Louis himself was He managed some

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Speaker 1: of the biggest names in comedy. We're talking Amy Poehler

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Speaker 1: as Ziza Snari, people that you think of as you know, progressive,

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Speaker 1: funny people. And if you're a comedian who's up and coming.

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Speaker 1: You might really be afraid to cross someone that powerful,

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Speaker 1: who has a direct line with so many powerful comedians.

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Speaker 1: And once again, the entertainment industry is such a how

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Speaker 1: usual relationship driven industry, you know, Like I'd say, all

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Speaker 1: industries are pretty relationship driven. But there's no HR department

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Speaker 1: in the comedian stand up circuit, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 1: There's no hierarchy, there's no real authority. There's just power

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Speaker 1: as derived from popularity and influence, and so there's no

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Speaker 1: it's like such a wild wild West. Yeah. In our

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Speaker 1: last ME two episode, we talked about how because Hollywood

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Speaker 1: really functions on you know, sexual desire and looks as

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Speaker 1: a currency, and how it really allows abusers to fester.

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Speaker 1: I think comedy kind of presents another interesting way of

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Speaker 1: framing that, where it is relationships, it is personal connection,

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Speaker 1: It is having fond feelings about someone or thinking, oh

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Speaker 1: this guy is really funny. This guy's a truth teller

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Speaker 1: that I think allows people who are doing bad things

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Speaker 1: to really get away with it unchecked. Yeah, exactly, So

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Speaker 1: what was he getting away with? So? Basically, he admitted

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Speaker 1: to asturbating in front of at least five women, who

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Speaker 1: were also either writers or comedians are involved in the

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Speaker 1: comedy scene. Um. Sometimes he would barricade them and kind

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Speaker 1: of not let them, not let them leave a room

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Speaker 1: until he was finished. Um. One woman says that they

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Speaker 1: talked on the phone and then she realized through what

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Speaker 1: he was saying and how he was breathing, that he

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Speaker 1: was masturbating. Um. Yeah, it just really sounds. I don't

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Speaker 1: even have the words for it. It's just such a

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Speaker 1: I would be so shocked. And in one of the anecdotes,

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Speaker 1: the two women that he masturbates in front of, they

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Speaker 1: described not even having the time to take off their

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Speaker 1: winter coats, right exactly. This is the part of the

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Speaker 1: story I found so interesting and I'm glad the New

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Speaker 1: York Times decided to lead the story with this. Basically,

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Speaker 1: these two comedians, Daneman Goodman and Julia Woloff had landed

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Speaker 1: their big break, a chance to open the Comedy Arts

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Speaker 1: Festival in Aspen, Colorado, where Louis c k was also performing. So,

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Speaker 1: of course, when he invited them to hang out in

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Speaker 1: his hotel room for a nightcap afterwards, they took him

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Speaker 1: up on the offer, thinking like, of course, this is

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Speaker 1: a good opportunity to network, which is true and should

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Speaker 1: be a thing that women can do. And they said,

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Speaker 1: as soon as they sat down in his room, still

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Speaker 1: wrapped in their winter jackets and hats, Louis c K

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Speaker 1: asked if he could take out his penis. I'm sure

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Speaker 1: he didn't say it like that, though, like do you

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Speaker 1: mind if I whip out my Like that's the kind

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Speaker 1: of opening line that Louis went with. And they said,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a joke and laughed it off,

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Speaker 1: which is a normal reaction to something like that, that

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Speaker 1: Louis c. K is a dirty comedian, like he would

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Speaker 1: joke about something like that. He jokes about masturbation on

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Speaker 1: the show frequently. So then he did it and they

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Speaker 1: were like, he proceeded to take all of his clothes off,

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Speaker 1: get completely naked, and start masturbating and they're like, still

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in their jackets, paralyzed. They were like, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know what to do, and I don't blame them,

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Speaker 1: because what the hell kind of a move was that?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I can't even fathom a grown man think

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Speaker 1: you that that isn't all a consensual encounter when the

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Speaker 1: people that you're doing that. In fin they just got

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Speaker 1: there I mean, what is that. Well, it's it's so

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Speaker 1: clearly not a sexual it's not sexually initiating something. It's

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Speaker 1: clearly an assault, you know what I mean. It's like

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Speaker 1: a power move your I don't know. It's so disrespectful

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Speaker 1: at its core, it's not about a sexually mutual exchange

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Speaker 1: of anything. It's like, this is what I'm gonna do

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Speaker 1: over you, Like, I don't really care about your thoughts

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Speaker 1: or feelings about it. This is what I'm gonna do. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I would love for the like sex therapists out there

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Speaker 1: to weigh in on the psychology of why men would,

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Speaker 1: why men do that? And men do men do? And

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Speaker 1: Laura knows, I don't understand men. If you if you

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Speaker 1: know anything about my romantic life, Laura knows, I don't

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Speaker 1: know crap about men. But this is something that I

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Speaker 1: just can't wrap my head around. But there's also this

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Speaker 1: narrative I've heard that's like, oh, he's sexually damaged, like

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Speaker 1: he's got problems. That's the thing that jumped out at

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Speaker 1: me in a lot of the encounters, and described that

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Speaker 1: in The New York Times when the women said, after

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Speaker 1: he asked, can I take out my penis and started

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Speaker 1: masturbating that she said no, and that his response was, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have problems, And so it does seem like whether

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Speaker 1: or not that's an actual thing, it does seem like

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Speaker 1: c K fell back on this idea of like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I have problems, I have sexual hangups whatever, as an

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Speaker 1: explanation for behavior that really just can't be excused. I

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Speaker 1: imagine if you walked into your boss's room or your

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Speaker 1: colleague's office and that happened. See I think because it's

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Speaker 1: the entertainment industry, because it was a late night in

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Speaker 1: a hotel room, the barriers seem a little wishier and washier,

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Speaker 1: a little more fluid. But compare this to your office, like,

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Speaker 1: compare this to your professional domain. The women who were

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Speaker 1: in that hotel room had just finished working with a

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Speaker 1: professional colleague. Just because it was in a hotel room

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Speaker 1: does not lower the bar of like decency. And a

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Speaker 1: lot of people on Twitter started saying, like, Wow, that's

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Speaker 1: weird and messed up and gross. But is it assault?

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Speaker 1: Is this against the law? You can't whip out? I mean,

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Speaker 1: there was real tension around people getting on board immediately

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Speaker 1: with that being an assault. Definitely, I definitely saw that,

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Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, the only spectrum we have

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Speaker 1: these days to talk about sexual misconduct is is it

428
00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:27,080
Speaker 1: a legal sexual assault or no? Then our whole conversation

429
00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: is kind of well, it's it just goes back to consent.

430
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 1: We've got to train all people of all genders what

431
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 1: it looks like to have consensual sex, because that is

432
00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: not a consensual exchange, and that is at its core

433
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 1: and aggressive one way move. It's like, I really don't

434
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: care if you say yes or no, this is going

435
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: to happen. I'm going to do this. This is me

436
00:23:49,320 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 1: wielding power over you and fundamentally disrespecting you. Absolutely, and

437
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 1: I think you really saw that in c k statement

438
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,080
Speaker 1: about what happened. So one thing I will say about

439
00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: this statement is that he did flat out say these

440
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:06,560
Speaker 1: allegations are true. I did these things. And so having

441
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 1: that for me, having that be sort of the opening line,

442
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: I thought, well, at least he's not going through this

443
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:16,400
Speaker 1: whole rigamarole of their lying. At least he's saying this happened,

444
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:19,520
Speaker 1: which is commendable. We can we can say this is

445
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,240
Speaker 1: disgusting and terrible. And also he owned up to it,

446
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: and that's commendable because I think in this date and age,

447
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,800
Speaker 1: the what we expect from powerful men who are accused

448
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,199
Speaker 1: of sexual assault or sexual harassment or sexual misconduct is right.

449
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:35,679
Speaker 1: It's like a script right away. These allegations are false.

450
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: I have a daughter, I have a wife, Like there's

451
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:44,400
Speaker 1: a playbook that usually happens. Women are there so low though,

452
00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,120
Speaker 1: That's what I realized. We were chatting a lot when

453
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,040
Speaker 1: this stuff was breaking, and I was talking with a

454
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 1: lot of people in my life about it, and I

455
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: frankly realized that I was too easily impressed. Is the

456
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: bar so low for me? That just owning up to it,

457
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,640
Speaker 1: even though he does not apologize and says something being pathetic,

458
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,080
Speaker 1: like I never showed a woman my without asking first,

459
00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 1: And I thought that's why it was okay, Like I

460
00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,119
Speaker 1: was playcated for all of five seconds before I started

461
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: talking about it with everyone around me, and I read

462
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: the New York Times piece out loud when I was

463
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: reading it and Brad was around, and I read the

464
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:21,879
Speaker 1: statement and he just said, I'm not impressed. And I realized, like, damn,

465
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,280
Speaker 1: I've been coming up in a world where this kind

466
00:25:25,280 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 1: of a statement was like playcated me, and I felt

467
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,840
Speaker 1: sort of horrified by myself in that moment. Well, if

468
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:35,679
Speaker 1: you checked out social media, you're far from alone. I

469
00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,800
Speaker 1: saw many people on Twitter applauding his statement, saying this

470
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: is a good model for how men can own when

471
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,280
Speaker 1: they do something wrong and how they can publicly own it.

472
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: But here's and and here's the thing. Lubis c K's

473
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,080
Speaker 1: whole stick is sort of calculated vulnerability and sort of

474
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:53,600
Speaker 1: making you feel like he's being honest and authentic. That's

475
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:55,879
Speaker 1: why his show was so good. That's what resonates with

476
00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:59,040
Speaker 1: his stand up. And so he is shameful. He's Saul

477
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 1: ashamed of himself correct, which reminded me of all the

478
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: people I've ever dated in my life except for Brad

479
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:09,400
Speaker 1: the Boo. So I think I was like, I got

480
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: the psychological victimhood that he was playing. But do you

481
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: think it was authentic? I even think he was authentically ashamed? Yeah?

482
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: I do. So here's why I disagree. I definitely think

483
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 1: this is like your mileage made very thing. And I

484
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: saw people that I immensely respect saying this is like,

485
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: he does seem like he's owning this and that he understands.

486
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: But just two months ago he was on TV promoting

487
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: his gross movie, which We're gonna get you in a second,

488
00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: saying these are rumors. I've done nothing wrong. I'm not

489
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,520
Speaker 1: answer for this. And so even while that statement reads

490
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 1: to me as someone who is ashamed and feels bad

491
00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: and gets it, gets why they've done something wrong, I

492
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: don't feel like you can go from I don't I

493
00:26:48,080 --> 00:26:50,600
Speaker 1: don't have to apologize for anything. I don't do anything wrong.

494
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: In fact, you're the one who's wrong for spreading rumors

495
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,400
Speaker 1: that made me. I don't think he could go from

496
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: there too, genuinely apologetic and getting it in a series

497
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,840
Speaker 1: of months. And I guess that's actually what Brad pointed

498
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,400
Speaker 1: out to me, which was I bet so many men

499
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 1: out there have these statements ready to go, but they're

500
00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: not going to own it until they absolutely have to.

501
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:11,679
Speaker 1: That's the thing. And so I want to see the

502
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: guy who says, you know what, I'm volunteering, I did

503
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: something wrong, and they're probably all coming for me anyway,

504
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:20,640
Speaker 1: So let's just get this out of the way now. Yeah,

505
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:22,760
Speaker 1: I want to see that guy. Yeah. I don't feel

506
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: like Luis c k can. He has made a big show.

507
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:29,399
Speaker 1: He went on Mark Marin's podcast and essentially lied. He

508
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,639
Speaker 1: lied and said this never happened. It's a rumor. It

509
00:27:31,720 --> 00:27:34,960
Speaker 1: was a rumor about one night, and Mark Marin was like, yeah,

510
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: he lied to me on my own show. He came

511
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: into my garage but on my headphones, talked into my

512
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,639
Speaker 1: microphone and lied. And so I just feel like, you know,

513
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:46,320
Speaker 1: it's a note from me. It's a note from me. Yeah. Yeah,

514
00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: that's very compelling. I'm convinced. And it actually really jarred

515
00:27:50,760 --> 00:27:54,400
Speaker 1: me in the same way that problematic fave Taylor Swift addition,

516
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: jarred me into realizing, Oh, I forgive a lot of

517
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 1: racism for people that I adore, and that's pretty messed

518
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 1: up when it comes to Taylor Swift, and when it

519
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 1: comes to Louis c K. Because I loved his comedy.

520
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 1: I was so easily placated by his book. But that's

521
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: the thing, that's how he gets you, like, his comedy

522
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: sucks you in that way, and I think it's a

523
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,840
Speaker 1: it's a nature of comedy. The stand up comedy is

524
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: about making people feel like you're telling the truth that

525
00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:24,840
Speaker 1: you're that you're winning them over to how you see

526
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,080
Speaker 1: the world, and Louis is great at that. That's why

527
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,080
Speaker 1: his comedy is so good. And so when I saw

528
00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: that statement, initially I was like, that was a good statement.

529
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: I had to take a step back and say, wait

530
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: a minute. He doesn't even say he's sorry, And as

531
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,120
Speaker 1: Christina Cattarucci points out over at Slate in his own

532
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,760
Speaker 1: statement about his misconduct, he really messes up the concept

533
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: of consent in a way that I think folks aren't

534
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,680
Speaker 1: really talking about enough. She says. Even so, nestled in

535
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 1: a CK's admission effect quote these stories are true, are

536
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: several deliberate lies. C K's phrasing is cunning and specific.

537
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,920
Speaker 1: Perhaps he did ask each women if he could take

538
00:28:57,960 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: out his penis before he showed it to them, but

539
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 1: he doesn't say if they said yes, because many didn't. Here,

540
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: c K is squeezing his history of harassment into the

541
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: narrative of misunderstood consent. He's claiming that, as an adult man,

542
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: he believed that repeatedly asking a woman in his workplace

543
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: to watch him masterm it in his office was appropriate.

544
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 1: The Times article says he proposed his favorite sex act

545
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: to the pair of women he didn't know but who

546
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: admired him. As soon as they sat down in a

547
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: room wrapped in their winter jackets and hats. When they

548
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,120
Speaker 1: quote lacked it off, he did it anyway. C K

549
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,040
Speaker 1: would have his fans believe that he honestly thought this

550
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,960
Speaker 1: would be erotically pleasing for the two bundled up women,

551
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: that he truly believed that he had their consers exactly

552
00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 1: because it has nothing to do with their interests or desires.

553
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: He's totally disrespectful and ignorant of and not interested in

554
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: understanding what they want and desire in that moment, because

555
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: it's sure as hell wasn't going to be to watch

556
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: him masturbate. Yes, duh, absolutely accurate. We're gonna get into

557
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: a little bit more about why c k's allegations seemed

558
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: a little bit different from the others after this quick

559
00:29:55,760 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 1: break and we're back and we were just talking about

560
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:10,840
Speaker 1: Luis Ka and really why it was so tempting to

561
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: maybe give him a pass to say, oh this his

562
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 1: statement was good. And I really do think it's because

563
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 1: of how he functions in the comedy world. First of all,

564
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,160
Speaker 1: as The New York Times points out, the man is

565
00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,479
Speaker 1: a comedy legend. He's so successful he sold out Medisine

566
00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:26,240
Speaker 1: Square Garden his show is huge. He's really sort of

567
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 1: known as kind of a tastemaker and the comedy in Hollywood.

568
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: So I wonder if that played into why these allegations

569
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: went unaddressed for so long. Yeah, you know, it's ironic

570
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 1: and now very horrifying. Is that Louis K built a

571
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 1: reputation as the unlikely conscience of a comedy scene. As

572
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: written in The New York Times, they go on to say,

573
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:52,400
Speaker 1: he made audiences laugh about hypocrisy, especially male hypocrisy. And

574
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,920
Speaker 1: I think that's exactly why men like c K can

575
00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:58,760
Speaker 1: be so insidious, because they make you believe that they're

576
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,960
Speaker 1: these woke programs. A feminist. They get it, they get

577
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 1: what the women are going through, they get their own

578
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,000
Speaker 1: role in it. But just saying the right stuff about

579
00:31:07,080 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: gender doesn't actually make you a feminist exactly. His work

580
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: really underscored and played up the grossness of men, which

581
00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: made him kind of endearing. For instance, take his classic

582
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: joke about how dating men is dangerous. He says, how

583
00:31:22,200 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: do women still go out with guys? When you consider

584
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 1: that there is no greater threat to women than men?

585
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: Were the number one threat to women globally and historically

586
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,840
Speaker 1: we are the number one cause of injury and mayhem

587
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:36,600
Speaker 1: to women, which, by the way, I never thought was

588
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:39,040
Speaker 1: that funny because it's so freaking true, you know what

589
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: I mean. That was like a scary, real joke. But

590
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 1: he got people laughing because he's the oh, like, we're

591
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 1: so bad, like terrible men like oh self deprecation on

592
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: steroids totally. And I have such a hard time seeing

593
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,520
Speaker 1: through this when it's happening and like the guy is

594
00:31:57,560 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 1: in my good graces. But after that that, it's so

595
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: easy to call this out for what it is exactly.

596
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 1: And you know who did that beautifully is Francesca Ramsey,

597
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 1: who really articulated this in the perfect way on stage

598
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 1: just earlier this week. I think what really is the

599
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 1: worst is like looking back on his material and realizing

600
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: that he was doing all of this stuff to get

601
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,960
Speaker 1: like head pats for being like a woke white guy

602
00:32:23,200 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 1: who like understands that's hard to be a woman, like you, dude.

603
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: He was telling jokes about himself. He was going up

604
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: and telling jokes about how hard it was to be

605
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 1: a woman because guys are coles, and he was talking

606
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,479
Speaker 1: about himself, and he was getting millions of dollars for it,

607
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: and it's just honestly, I could out of put it

608
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 1: better myself. Um, I think it's I think she's absolutely

609
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: spot on right. We all kind of bought into this

610
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:50,360
Speaker 1: idea of Luis c K as this feminist truth teller.

611
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:53,360
Speaker 1: There's actually a Salon article about all about how he's

612
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 1: a male feminist comedian and it's this new thing, and

613
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: I just think we bought it, and he was making

614
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 1: millions doing it. Underscores to me just how enraged we

615
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,240
Speaker 1: all should be about it. Absolutely, And I think the

616
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: fact that we gave him money for telling jokes about

617
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 1: his own gross disturbing behavior really say something about us.

618
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,479
Speaker 1: Over at g Q, they write c K two had

619
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 1: a rep for being painfully honest, particularly in regard to

620
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 1: his own shortcomings as a husband, father, and man in general.

621
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,080
Speaker 1: Looking back, it feels like c K's entire uvra was

622
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: less a deployment of harsh truths than a deft way

623
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,760
Speaker 1: of laundering them, masking his truly unforgivable behavior. He was

624
00:33:29,800 --> 00:33:33,280
Speaker 1: strategically vulnerable, always in control of his own narrative. He

625
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: almost certainly got more cadarsis out of his act than

626
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: his audience did. C K also had a habit of

627
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:42,760
Speaker 1: presuming his own personal flaws, his inner racism, his sexual hangouts, etcetera,

628
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,000
Speaker 1: were universal aspects of the human condition. I know that

629
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 1: playbook well, and it's often used by a white dude

630
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: who thinks everyone else also thinks like a white dude,

631
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: which I'm sure many white dudes do, but like it doesn't.

632
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: It's not exactly inclusive comedy like that. That's why that

633
00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: joke about men being the number one deadliest threat to

634
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,960
Speaker 1: women was not funny to me. Right, But again, I

635
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 1: think a certain kind of man see C. K And says,

636
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: if I think like him, I'm a good guy. I'm

637
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: a progressive. I can be gross, I can do all

638
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,400
Speaker 1: these gross things. I mean. He had an episode of

639
00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 1: his show Louie where he basically tries to rape Pamula

640
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: Alden's character, and it's sort of framed as, Oh, he's

641
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: just this bumbling guy who doesn't know how to how

642
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:29,040
Speaker 1: to be with women, and looking back, it's like, why

643
00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: did we entertain that? Why did we allow that to

644
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: be wrapped up and kind of a you know, a

645
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 1: fluffy bow. Another episode that I actually had forgotten about

646
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 1: until just now is Louis. You know, he's this sort

647
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 1: of chronically single, can't get a date, hapless guy who

648
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 1: doesn't understand women, and it's supposed to be lovable on

649
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:49,600
Speaker 1: the show. He goes to a supermarket and there's a

650
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 1: black woman behind the checkout counter and he buys like

651
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: a dozen roses and he says, these are for you,

652
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: and she's like, I can't accept these roses. I don't

653
00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,480
Speaker 1: want them. And he's like, no, I'm I bought them

654
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,359
Speaker 1: for you. I bought them for you. She's like, no,

655
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm not interested. He then waits until she gets off

656
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 1: of her job. He follows her back to her apartment

657
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: and this is New York, so she lives in like

658
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,120
Speaker 1: Harlem its and it's involves, you know. He gets on

659
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:14,040
Speaker 1: the subway with her and he goes back to her

660
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 1: apartment and it's like trying to woo her after she's

661
00:35:16,920 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 1: made it very very clear that she's not interested, and

662
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: the episode is played for sort of. He's this romantic

663
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: guy who's trying his best to woo this girl who

664
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: could not have made it any more clear that she's

665
00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: not into it. And what's worse is that the girl

666
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: actually gives this very pointed kind of monologue about what's

667
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:38,839
Speaker 1: happening and why it's messed up? She says, you think

668
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,279
Speaker 1: this is going to be something where you come to

669
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 1: the hood and like come to Harlem and like make

670
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: my day and like buy me flowers, and it's supposed

671
00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:48,760
Speaker 1: to be so nice. I'm not into it. It's not romantic,

672
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: it's not cool, and you're thinking, oh, maybe he gets it.

673
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: But then here's the kicker. It's played for laughs because

674
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: as he's leaving her apartment, he sees another black woman

675
00:35:58,760 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: and they have like what is supposed to be humorous sex.

676
00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:07,359
Speaker 1: So basically essentially stalks a woman all the way through

677
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: her work day on the subway back to her home.

678
00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 1: After she's like you need to leave her. I'm basically

679
00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 1: called him the cops. He sleeps with another woman and

680
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:18,240
Speaker 1: it's supposed to be funny and charming. And I wonder

681
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 1: where we all just caught up in that and exactly

682
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,839
Speaker 1: what Fancesca was saying, this sort of bumbling white guy

683
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: progressivism that we kind of got dupe into thinking that

684
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:32,359
Speaker 1: was cool. I think he is playing up the very

685
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 1: real problem that our society has on understanding consent. I

686
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: think the confusion around consent is honest clearly he doesn't

687
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:43,080
Speaker 1: understand that whipping your get out in the workplace, even

688
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,720
Speaker 1: if it is a hotel room after a comedy show

689
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 1: in front of two women who could not have looked

690
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,879
Speaker 1: or seemed less interested, is not okay. So I think

691
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 1: this like hapless learning what consent means, Like clearly he

692
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,640
Speaker 1: needs to understand what eighteen year olds are hopefully getting

693
00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: through their heads a little more. Then it's like a

694
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 1: generational thing. Not that that's a pass, but I think

695
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:14,080
Speaker 1: his comedy resonated because there is real confusion in this

696
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,319
Speaker 1: country about what consent actually means. And once you add

697
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,640
Speaker 1: power in a sense of entitlement to it, which white

698
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: men in our country seem to have an oversized amount

699
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,400
Speaker 1: of right now and historically, then that's a that's a

700
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: pretty dangerous combination. A lack of respect around consent, an

701
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: outsized estimation of your own awesomeness right about your own

702
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:39,480
Speaker 1: sex appeal perhaps or your entitlement and your power, and

703
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,640
Speaker 1: an actual outsized amount of power in this country. I

704
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:45,520
Speaker 1: would also go further and say an outsized estimation of

705
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,879
Speaker 1: your own feminism, right, because I do think him being

706
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:53,400
Speaker 1: sort of appointed as quote feminist dude perhaps did give

707
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: him a lot of leeway to make art that we

708
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,160
Speaker 1: weren't super critical about in addition to getting away with

709
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 1: things that were really in apropriate. That's why I love

710
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 1: this piece that Sarah Ditman put out at the New Statement.

711
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: She says, it's typical of the low standards men benefit

712
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: from that Simply describing how men are bad for women

713
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: could be enough to get c K lauded as a

714
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,759
Speaker 1: hero of the women's movement, in the same way that

715
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 1: a male primary school teacher who simply shows up for

716
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 1: work long enough can find himself glass elevator to the

717
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: head of leadership. Just dropping some about sex and power

718
00:38:22,719 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 1: can be enough to have a man seen appointed to

719
00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 1: top feminist. And if, like c K, he seems to

720
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: be admitting to personal foibles as he goes, then he

721
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: can be praised all the more for his honesty. Yeah,

722
00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: the bar is so low. The bar is so low

723
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,000
Speaker 1: for male feminists is in the public eye and the

724
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: entertainment industry, And isn't interesting how a lot of times

725
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: these notable male feminists find themselves kind of dealing with

726
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,000
Speaker 1: this kind of thing. I'm thinking of folks like Jamie Kilsten,

727
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,000
Speaker 1: Josh Sweden, all of these men that sort of appoint

728
00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: themselves as these feminist heroes, sometimes they end up being

729
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,960
Speaker 1: kind of gross and kind of sleazy and using their

730
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: feminist street cred to prey on women. Yeah. I can

731
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: almost hear the guy listening though, saying, like, what am

732
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 1: I too much of a feminist now? It's like kind

733
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,479
Speaker 1: of how Matt McGorry got a lot of shade after

734
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: he was like a little too front and center. I

735
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:16,919
Speaker 1: almost wonder if it's one of those Malcolm Gladwell style

736
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,560
Speaker 1: slipping points where when you're you're like woke, and then

737
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: you get to a point where it's like it's too woke,

738
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:23,359
Speaker 1: and then you're like something's about to turn it down. Yeah,

739
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 1: something's about to It's like something something has to give, right.

740
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 1: It's the it's the idea of like um past the

741
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 1: mic exactly. Just as a personal thing, when a man

742
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 1: vocally and loudly calls himself a feminist, I'm always a

743
00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: little skeptical. I'm like, I just feel as though if

744
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: you actually are truly down with the cause, you're not

745
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: just talking about it and tweeting about it, you're actually

746
00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:49,440
Speaker 1: out there being a good guy or actually out there passing,

747
00:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: passing the mic, and elevating women's vaces. You're actually out

748
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: there checking your bros when they do something inappropriate to

749
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:57,960
Speaker 1: a woman, when they can't call a woman. You're actually

750
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 1: out there walking the walk, not just walking the talk. Yes,

751
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:05,920
Speaker 1: you know. I actually heard Wade Davis speak at Mobilizing

752
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,239
Speaker 1: the Power of Women the Elevate Networks conference in New

753
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: York earlier this year, and when he got up as

754
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 1: one of the handful of keynote speakers in the morning

755
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,200
Speaker 1: of the conference, the first thing he said was, listen,

756
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,480
Speaker 1: I'm not here to get brownie points. I think there's

757
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: a lot of things wrong with the men who get

758
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,960
Speaker 1: up at these conferences to just get brownie points. So like,

759
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:29,759
Speaker 1: this is not about me, and I come to you

760
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:33,080
Speaker 1: humbly and like I'm here to learn and listen. And

761
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:35,920
Speaker 1: I was just like, damn, you don't get that kind

762
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: of a message from a lot of speakers period, but

763
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,319
Speaker 1: especially as an expert in diversity and inclusion, which he

764
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 1: is a former NFL player, an educator, and a diversitating

765
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 1: and inclusion consultant. You know, he was incredibly tactful and

766
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,320
Speaker 1: how he walked the walk, which it definitely your actions

767
00:40:56,320 --> 00:40:58,440
Speaker 1: speak louder than your words when it comes to this

768
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:00,760
Speaker 1: kind of thing. Well, I think the is kind of big.

769
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,920
Speaker 1: Public moments like that can really be models for how

770
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,360
Speaker 1: men can get it right and men can get it wrong.

771
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,680
Speaker 1: And I gotta say I was a little disappointed by

772
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,800
Speaker 1: one of our faves, John Stewart, looking back at footage

773
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 1: of him being asked about these allegations, it's mortifying. Basically,

774
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: he just misses it as quote some internet thing, right.

775
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,399
Speaker 1: He doesn't even really take the rumor seriously, and he's

776
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,360
Speaker 1: kind of just brushes them off. And that video today,

777
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: you know, it's a few years old. Watching it in

778
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,240
Speaker 1: light of the recent allegations coming out to be true,

779
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: it really doesn't play well. But conversely, I thought it

780
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 1: was interesting that thirty Rocks Judy Friedlander really showed a

781
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,200
Speaker 1: different model for how c ks comedy colleagues could really

782
00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,840
Speaker 1: hold them accountable and support the women who were coming forward.

783
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:46,160
Speaker 1: When Freedlander was asked about sexual assault in the comedy world,

784
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:48,600
Speaker 1: he said, there's a big rumor. I think you know

785
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: who I'm talking about. I've only ever read things on Gawker.

786
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: I got alarded to it a year ago when it

787
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:55,879
Speaker 1: was online I don't generally deal with him. He's been

788
00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: to me, so I know nothing about it. But if

789
00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:00,880
Speaker 1: anyone in the comedy community has been be used by anyone,

790
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 1: I support them a hundred percent. Whoever's doing it, no

791
00:42:03,560 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: matter how big or small, I hope they do time

792
00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: for the crime. And you know, I bet that wasn't

793
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: an easy thing to do. I bet that did have

794
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: consequences for him. But there's a right way to be

795
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,439
Speaker 1: an ally when you're a man, and there's a wrong

796
00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:17,880
Speaker 1: way to be an ally when you're a man. And

797
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: I think moments like this really show us how folks

798
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,759
Speaker 1: can get it right or get it wrong. Yeah, and

799
00:42:23,800 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: it it involves taking risks to your own personal professional

800
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:33,040
Speaker 1: credibility or potential, you know, like calling out like the

801
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,839
Speaker 1: big fish in the scene does not come without consequences.

802
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely absolutely. Let's take a quick break and talk a

803
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,560
Speaker 1: bit more about what this means for c KS movies

804
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 1: and for the media landscape going forward. And we're back.

805
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:56,680
Speaker 1: We were just talking about Louis c K and sort

806
00:42:56,680 --> 00:42:58,880
Speaker 1: of how he was able to function as a creep

807
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,240
Speaker 1: in Hollywood for so long. And I would be remiss

808
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,600
Speaker 1: to talk about Louis c K without mentioning that creepy,

809
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,719
Speaker 1: creepy movie I Love You Daddy. To me, there is

810
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: no better evidence of how secure c K felt in

811
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,560
Speaker 1: his status and in his standing in Hollywood and in

812
00:43:18,680 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: the New York comedy scene, and the fact that he

813
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: felt it was appropriate and a good idea to write, direct,

814
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: and self finance a movie called I Love You Daddy

815
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:33,360
Speaker 1: that deals heavily with a seventeen year old high school

816
00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,400
Speaker 1: student possibly having sexual relations with a much older man,

817
00:43:38,000 --> 00:43:42,800
Speaker 1: mind you, in the style of other potentially noted creep

818
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:46,640
Speaker 1: Woody Allen. Yeah, basically is a film whose plotline plays

819
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: homage to the Woody Allen era, in which like this creative, fumbling,

820
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 1: bumbling older man finds an inspiration in a muse who

821
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 1: is like basically barely like or in this case not legal. Yeah,

822
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 1: if you've ever seen Manhattan, I Love You Daddy, basically

823
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 1: it's an homage to Manhattan, wherein I think it's Brookshields

824
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,760
Speaker 1: with fifteen is the love interest for very adult Woody Allen,

825
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,279
Speaker 1: and it's just seen as a thing. And I think

826
00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: the fact that Louis c K decided to pay homage

827
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,439
Speaker 1: to Woody Allen, in my mind, it just makes me think, like, wow,

828
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,160
Speaker 1: you really were Like this is like a this is

829
00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:30,439
Speaker 1: not subtle, right, Actually, I'm a Madison had a great

830
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: tweet about something else, but it reminded me so much

831
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:34,560
Speaker 1: of this. This is like a movie where in the

832
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: serial killer sends taunting letters to the police. It's like,

833
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: we get it, dude, you're a creep, Like how many

834
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: other ways could you try to tell us that you're

835
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: a creep? It's so insane and you're right, like the

836
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 1: hootspa on this guy to think that he could get

837
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:52,399
Speaker 1: away with that while he's busy doing this kind of

838
00:44:52,560 --> 00:44:57,400
Speaker 1: jerk off, you know, assault type strategy, Like why would

839
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 1: you do that? Because you no longer for your consequences

840
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 1: because you're very powerful and you're untouchable or so he thought,

841
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:06,880
Speaker 1: and your powerful friends will all fall in line to

842
00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: protect you because you're a great comedian like that. Like,

843
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 1: it's no question to me that he very clearly felt secure,

844
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,680
Speaker 1: secure enough to make what I feel like it's such

845
00:45:14,680 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: an obvious, horrible idea of a movie, particularly in this

846
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:22,719
Speaker 1: cultural climate, like even if these allegations about him never

847
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 1: came to light, even if they never came to be true,

848
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,360
Speaker 1: making a movie about your seventeen year old daughter having

849
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,680
Speaker 1: sex with a grown man, and you're sort of a

850
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:37,000
Speaker 1: moral ambiguity around that is weird. Regardless, it takes a

851
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,000
Speaker 1: lot of like you said, Huspa, to make a movie

852
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:40,759
Speaker 1: like that in this climate and think it will just

853
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 1: be fine, yeah, and will. To be clear, we have

854
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:47,520
Speaker 1: not seen this film ourselves. Alexander Schwartz and The New

855
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 1: Yorker sums it up in really what she describes as

856
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 1: the only generous way to read I Love You, Daddy,

857
00:45:55,440 --> 00:45:58,839
Speaker 1: which she says is as a portrait of male cowardice.

858
00:45:59,200 --> 00:46:01,560
Speaker 1: What kind of man would be so shamefully pathetic as

859
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 1: to avoid confronting the famous geezer who may or may

860
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:08,879
Speaker 1: not be screwing his underage daughter because that geezer has

861
00:46:08,920 --> 00:46:12,799
Speaker 1: offered to read his latest script, the same man presumably

862
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 1: who winces but doesn't intervene, as his Dumbo comedian buddy

863
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: Charlie Day describes at gleeful length all the ways that

864
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: the man's daughter has probably been done spring Break. As

865
00:46:24,880 --> 00:46:26,879
Speaker 1: is often the case with the roles that Louis writes

866
00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: for himself, there is a strong note of masochistic pleasure

867
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: in this extreme passivity. Louis famously obsessive and controlling of

868
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 1: his work. He writes, he directs, he edits, he acts,

869
00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 1: he produces, he distributes, he does it all. Likes to

870
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:47,320
Speaker 1: play losers who are at the mercy of others. Often

871
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 1: those others are women. It's hard not to wonder, in

872
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:53,759
Speaker 1: the wake of Thursday's revelations, to what extent Louis has

873
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: used this persona to shield his reputation. But cowardice is

874
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 1: not just an avoidance of a moral stance. It is

875
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: a moral stance too, and not a flattering one. So basically,

876
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: in the movie, he's got this powerful older filmmaker who

877
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,600
Speaker 1: he really admires, who he doesn't necessarily want to confront

878
00:47:13,640 --> 00:47:15,800
Speaker 1: about whether or not he's sleeping with his teenage daughter.

879
00:47:16,280 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: And like we're supposed to empathize with that kind of ambiguity, right,

880
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:22,360
Speaker 1: And just like you were talking about before, how his

881
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 1: comedy and his show kind of served to launder his

882
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 1: own behavior and sort of put this sort of mask

883
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,759
Speaker 1: of what does it all mean? Let's ask quote tough

884
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 1: questions about bad behavior of men and just asking questions, right, Like,

885
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: I feel like the film really sort of puts a

886
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:45,400
Speaker 1: veneer of this is these are smart alreadie people having

887
00:47:45,800 --> 00:47:50,120
Speaker 1: smart already conversations about whether it's cool to have sex

888
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: with a fourteen year old. It almost sounds like he's

889
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,520
Speaker 1: using his art or the this character that he seems

890
00:47:58,560 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: to play over and over again as a way of

891
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: denying his own responsibility in his own life. Absolutely at

892
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: maybe I'm not doing this. Maybe it's all just happening

893
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: to me, that infinite victimhood that honestly, I dated people

894
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,839
Speaker 1: every every like dude I've dated, is like, I'm just

895
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: the victim here, And a lot of the controlling and

896
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:23,399
Speaker 1: abuse of men that I've encountered in my life, whether

897
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:25,480
Speaker 1: I was in a relationship with them or not, are

898
00:48:25,640 --> 00:48:29,680
Speaker 1: constantly feeling like victims, like hapless SAPs that just you know,

899
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:32,280
Speaker 1: just want to love and be loved. I think Louis

900
00:48:32,560 --> 00:48:34,400
Speaker 1: plays that up so much, and I think it's no

901
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,200
Speaker 1: coincidence that you see that in men who can come

902
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,160
Speaker 1: off a little controlling in toxic. Is that constant shirking

903
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,399
Speaker 1: of responsibility by seeing you as the victim of your

904
00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 1: own life instead of having any agency or power or

905
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: responsibility over your actions so common place. It's so common. Yeah,

906
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: And I think kind of back to the movie, even

907
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,160
Speaker 1: though I think I've talked at length about how gross

908
00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:59,279
Speaker 1: I think this movie is. Even beyond that. Something that

909
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 1: really troubles is that we give men like LOUII the

910
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:08,319
Speaker 1: space to tell these stories. I'm in general sick of

911
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: the overcrowding of our media landscape with stories like this,

912
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: stories about men grappling with you know, wanting younger women

913
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:21,160
Speaker 1: and all of that. Like, I just I'm done with that, right.

914
00:49:21,560 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 1: Something that I often say that people give me a

915
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: lot of heat for is I don't actually read books

916
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 1: by men. I'm just sick of it something against men.

917
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,319
Speaker 1: I just I get it. I feel like we have

918
00:49:31,480 --> 00:49:35,560
Speaker 1: heard these stories so often. What new thing could Louis

919
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: c K tell us about, you know, the human experience? Right?

920
00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 1: And I just feel like, for so long we have

921
00:49:42,120 --> 00:49:45,920
Speaker 1: given men this past to make whatever kind of stories

922
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,759
Speaker 1: they make, and people just take it seriously. Well, that's

923
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: why Tigna Taro's One Mississippi is so refreshing. Which, by

924
00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: the way, did you hear her interview that chucked in

925
00:49:55,239 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 1: on It's It's a It's a amazing I love Ti

926
00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: Tario again. She was one of the earliest people to

927
00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:04,360
Speaker 1: really call c K out and That's another thing that

928
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 1: really pissed me off about the situation. How many women,

929
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,719
Speaker 1: how many women showrunners, women front runners, are going to

930
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,920
Speaker 1: go down because of c KS. Pamula Auden's better things.

931
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:20,040
Speaker 1: She's out there, like doing her own show about complicated women,

932
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,120
Speaker 1: made a certain age stories that you don't see. Is

933
00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: his situation going to like taint her project? Is his

934
00:50:27,320 --> 00:50:30,439
Speaker 1: situation going to taint tak Nataro's project because he sort

935
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:32,839
Speaker 1: of like helped her get famous. Because when you look

936
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: at allegations of wrongdoing by men, so often we expect

937
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:40,240
Speaker 1: the women in their orbit to answer for their wrong doings.

938
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 1: Look at Hillary Clinton, look at Huma ab Deen? Right,

939
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,880
Speaker 1: how often do we expect women who are in the

940
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,759
Speaker 1: orbit of powerful men, who who mess up, who mess up?

941
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: How often do we look at them and say, like,

942
00:50:53,239 --> 00:50:56,560
Speaker 1: where was she? What did she do? It was a relationship?

943
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,359
Speaker 1: Stand by your man or not kind of song get

944
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: played over over again, But hopefully, because Luis E. K

945
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:04,640
Speaker 1: is not romantically attached to any of these women, that

946
00:51:04,680 --> 00:51:07,600
Speaker 1: won't happen. But when I think about Pamuela Alden, I

947
00:51:07,719 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: only think about her in relation to c K, and

948
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,200
Speaker 1: I think that there was a creatively correct. I was

949
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:16,280
Speaker 1: just reading earlier today about how in comedy for women,

950
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: so often women aren't taken seriously as creators until they're

951
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:24,200
Speaker 1: attached to a powerful man. I love Ray's Insecure, but

952
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:26,520
Speaker 1: it was really Larry Wilmore kind of putting a stamp

953
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:28,439
Speaker 1: on that that got her where she is and got

954
00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:31,480
Speaker 1: her that recognition and saying, Okay, we'll give her some

955
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 1: legitimacy as a content creator. Yeah. And I feel like

956
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:37,160
Speaker 1: ether Ray is such a good example, like tig Natara

957
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:41,640
Speaker 1: of like maybe we should give women comedians more money

958
00:51:41,719 --> 00:51:45,200
Speaker 1: to make more creative stuff. There are so many more

959
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:48,520
Speaker 1: stories to be told than this. Woody Allen bs rerun

960
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,720
Speaker 1: absolutely absolutely correct. And again I'm hoping that this moment

961
00:51:52,960 --> 00:51:56,040
Speaker 1: will really be a sea change, not just around the

962
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 1: fact that we're sick of powerful men getting away with

963
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:01,800
Speaker 1: sex crimes, but also so we're sick of the stories

964
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:04,879
Speaker 1: of men dominating our media landscape. I hope this moment

965
00:52:04,960 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 1: is a galvanizing one for women content creators and women comedians,

966
00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:13,400
Speaker 1: women writers and directors, and every aspect from agents and

967
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:16,200
Speaker 1: managers to people who are behind the camera. I want

968
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: this to be a moment that says Listen, men have

969
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: had their run in Hollywood. It's our turn. Clearly you're

970
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:24,600
Speaker 1: messing everything up. Clearly you can't keep it in your pants.

971
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:27,200
Speaker 1: Clearly we're all sick of it. Anyone else, We're sick

972
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:29,879
Speaker 1: of your stories because they're whack and tired. Sit down

973
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: and let us have a chance at the helm. Yes.

974
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:36,000
Speaker 1: Also did to that for politics, Yes, and all the things.

975
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 1: Really like everything. I know, people chafe at that idea

976
00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 1: of like, you've had your turn, give us a shot.

977
00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 1: But that is valid. That is valid, and I think

978
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: I couldn't have said it better myself. The good news

979
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:50,799
Speaker 1: is that you don't have to look very far for

980
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,480
Speaker 1: evidence that the market is hungry for more stories, not

981
00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: the Woody Allen rerun. Even this past weekend, women lead

982
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 1: films were crushing it at the box office. The new

983
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,920
Speaker 1: Francis McDorman movie called Three Billboards Outside Ebbing, Missouri, open

984
00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,880
Speaker 1: to the third highest purse screen average for any movie

985
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: this year, with a stellar three thousand dollar take from

986
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: just four screens. It played alongside the movie with the

987
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:23,640
Speaker 1: highest purse screen opening of that year, The Greta Gerwig

988
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:28,200
Speaker 1: written and directed and Sores Ronan starring Ladybird which earned

989
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:32,760
Speaker 1: per screen in its debut and widened in its second

990
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:36,759
Speaker 1: weekend to become a bona fide specialty cinema smash hit,

991
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:39,320
Speaker 1: which f y. I. I saw Ladybird over the weekend,

992
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: and honestly, it doesn't surprise me that a movie that

993
00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 1: treats young women as actual thinking beings who have desires

994
00:53:46,719 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: and needs and all of that, as fully authentic people

995
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:52,520
Speaker 1: was a smash hit this past weekend. And it can

996
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: really be seen in tandem with Luis c K's I

997
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: Love You Daddy. We're in his seventeen year old daughter.

998
00:53:58,160 --> 00:54:02,759
Speaker 1: It's just this object of desire right exactly exactly that,

999
00:54:02,840 --> 00:54:04,439
Speaker 1: And so I don't think it's a coincidence at all

1000
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:08,680
Speaker 1: that these authentic women fronted movies with these strong female

1001
00:54:08,760 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: protagonists have been doing dang busters in light of all

1002
00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:14,680
Speaker 1: these horrible allegations against powerful men in Hollywood. I also

1003
00:54:14,719 --> 00:54:16,799
Speaker 1: see this playing out on the small screen, by the way,

1004
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: how I am hungry for women led dramas. I think

1005
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:24,239
Speaker 1: The Crown was doing incredibly well. We've already discussed how

1006
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,479
Speaker 1: Reese Weatherspoon's production studio is changing the game with things

1007
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:30,680
Speaker 1: like Big Little Lies. I think as a TV fiend

1008
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 1: who doesn't really actually get to the movies very often.

1009
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,760
Speaker 1: I don't know why. I'm not really a movie person,

1010
00:54:35,239 --> 00:54:40,080
Speaker 1: but I am a TV series binge watcher extraordina um.

1011
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,280
Speaker 1: I see this playing out in my Netflix account as well,

1012
00:54:43,360 --> 00:54:45,200
Speaker 1: and I want more of it. It's kind of like

1013
00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,960
Speaker 1: music too. I give my dad and a lot of

1014
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,080
Speaker 1: the guy friends in my life a lot of credit

1015
00:54:51,160 --> 00:54:54,920
Speaker 1: for introducing me to some of the most iconic bands

1016
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,960
Speaker 1: that I've ever loved, a lot of classic rock, And

1017
00:54:56,960 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: then I realized, in the past decade, you don't listen

1018
00:55:00,200 --> 00:55:03,600
Speaker 1: any women led bands, Like what is wrong with you?

1019
00:55:03,760 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 1: Let me introduce you to some bands that you've been

1020
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: missing out on as a musical artist, who you've been

1021
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: missing out on. Although, to his credit, my dad did

1022
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: introduce me to Janelle Mone Oh what yeah? Get it? Dad? Dad?

1023
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:21,600
Speaker 1: Areas Dad Aries? My Jewish white father went to a

1024
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 1: Jenelle Money concert solo in Hartford, Connecticut, twenty minutes from

1025
00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:29,359
Speaker 1: our house in the pouring rain, stayed to like meet

1026
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: her backstage, pretty sure he was the only white Jewish

1027
00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: suburban father in the whole place, by the way, and

1028
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:39,160
Speaker 1: got her signed. I'm sure she was like, where's your

1029
00:55:39,200 --> 00:55:44,200
Speaker 1: adopted black daughter. Oh he was so proud. I love it.

1030
00:55:44,320 --> 00:55:47,000
Speaker 1: I love it well. Sminty listeners, we want to hear

1031
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 1: from you. What was your take on Louie's statement about

1032
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: these allegations? Did it seem genuine to you? Why am

1033
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: I not? What's your take on why men masturbade in

1034
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:58,320
Speaker 1: front of women who are non consenting? And did anybody

1035
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: else sort of catch themselves me being too easily placated

1036
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,440
Speaker 1: and then thankfully getting enraged all over again? The more

1037
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:08,040
Speaker 1: I read about this and is that problematic? Like? Do

1038
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:11,360
Speaker 1: you find yourself too easily placated by the celebrities you

1039
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 1: formerly admired? Um in a statement of quote unquote apology

1040
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: like this one, It's easy to do, totally understandable. So

1041
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: hit us up on social media. You can find us

1042
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:24,920
Speaker 1: on Instagram at stuff Mom Never Told You, on Twitter

1043
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: at mom Stuff Podcast, and as always on email at

1044
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:41,400
Speaker 1: mom Stuff at how stuff works dot com