1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: Body does. But Joseph's gotten more. There's no other feeling 2 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:13,520 Speaker 1: in the world like being young and being with your friends. 3 00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: And I'm talking about that group of friends that you 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: hang out with, that group of friends like you get 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,880 Speaker 1: excited if you're going to see them, you're going to 6 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: spend a protracted period of time together. And look, I 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: got to confess partying, all right. And look, man, there's 8 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: nothing wrong with partying, particularly when you're young, because I 9 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 1: can tell you when you get old, you ain't gonna 10 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 1: do it. You're gonna be in bed by eight. 11 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,120 Speaker 2: But there was a. 12 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: Young man who did go and hang out with friends 13 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,839 Speaker 1: to enjoy I don't know, a long weekend over a 14 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: labor day. He went into it, probably full of excitement, 15 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: enthusiastic about seeing his buddies, fasten a bottle around, riding 16 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: on atv out in the country where the only illumination 17 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 1: is starlight. The only problem is is at the end 18 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: of that weekend, after all the partying had been done, 19 00:01:20,240 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 1: he had wound up dead on the side of a 20 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: road with more trauma than anyone can possibly imagine. I'm 21 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags. 22 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: Brother Dave, we have got an update. We've got an 23 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:50,000 Speaker 2: update today relatively to Yeah it is No Press Grove. 24 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:52,760 Speaker 1: I didn't look at you know, it's one of these 25 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: things that kind of you know, we cover these cases 26 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:59,320 Speaker 1: and I'd probably say that other people have the same 27 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: and this is God, this is going to sound so bad, 28 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,360 Speaker 1: and I mean no disrespect, but such a volume of 29 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 1: data comes into you and I on a regular basis, 30 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: these cases that otherwise would just pound you in the 31 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 1: face like a sledgehammer because other stuff trumps that data 32 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: along the way. These cases are forgotten and day. No 33 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: Press Grove's case is the stuff of horror movies. I mean, 34 00:02:29,000 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: it is an absolute terror show. 35 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:32,680 Speaker 3: It is. 36 00:02:32,760 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 4: It's every parent's worst nightmare for your young adult. You know, 37 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 4: it's one of those things when our kids are young, 38 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 4: before they start driving, we worry about them, their friends, 39 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:46,880 Speaker 4: who they're playing with, who they're hanging out with. Once 40 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 4: they start driving, though, it becomes a different kind of fear, 41 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 4: a different kind of concern that you have for your 42 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 4: children when they're out. After they graduate school from high school, 43 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:00,799 Speaker 4: there's another level. It's a different kind of worry now 44 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 4: because you know they're going to do things that young adults. 45 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 3: Do you mentioned partying? Look, I did it. 46 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 4: I encouraged my children when they became young adults to 47 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,120 Speaker 4: be wise. I think with my kids is I've already 48 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,840 Speaker 4: done it. You guys don't have to. I'll tell you what. 49 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,000 Speaker 4: The end result of all of it is. You end 50 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 4: up in handcuffs and jail wondering where you know, where 51 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 4: is my shirt? 52 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 3: And you know, well, you. 53 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: Know, Dave. 54 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: The problem is is that most kids don't believe us, 55 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: and they're going to want their own empirical proof of this. 56 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: The speculation. You know, they see the speculation. They don't 57 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: see it because none of them ever imagine us as 58 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,280 Speaker 1: young and partying. All right, So they have to go 59 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: out and you sit there and you're shaking your heads 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 1: like I wouldn't do that if I was you. I've 61 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 1: already told you. But you know, it's part of the 62 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:53,880 Speaker 1: carelessness of youth. I think a lot of that. There's 63 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 1: growth that comes out of it. I think there's also 64 00:03:56,880 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: a lesson to be learned about what to do and 65 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: what not to do. Any toms when you experience that. 66 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 4: In the noahpress Grove story, yeah, we actually have both 67 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 4: what to do and what not to do. And the 68 00:04:07,640 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 4: reason we're doing this is because there has been some movement. 69 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 4: You know, back in June, a lawsuit was filed by 70 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 4: the family of Noah press Grove. It was filed without 71 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 4: a lot of fanfare, mainly because you mentioned it right 72 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 4: at the beginning. We're hit with so many different stories. 73 00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 4: Unless there's something that really moves that rock up the hill, 74 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 4: it's not going to gain the attraction it needs. But 75 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 4: after it was filed, you and I did an update, 76 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 4: and now we've got that. We actually have an update 77 00:04:35,480 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 4: to go along with that lawsuit. But before we do that, Joe, 78 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,080 Speaker 4: you and I took a really good look at the injuries. 79 00:04:42,120 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 4: I actually, no, you took a really good look at them. 80 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 4: I was so shocked at what we found out when 81 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 4: this story came to us from one of y'all, a 82 00:04:52,480 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 4: listener of the show who actually reached out and said, hey, 83 00:04:55,360 --> 00:04:57,720 Speaker 4: have you guys covered this yet, And we're like, no, 84 00:04:58,160 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 4: let me find out more. 85 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 1: And yeah, that's oh my goodness. I just remembered that 86 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 1: that did come to us this way. 87 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. 88 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 4: And the thing is it goes back to again, out 89 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 4: of one hundred stories that deserve coverage, to get it 90 00:05:13,480 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 4: and there is no rhyme or reason to it. 91 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: There really isn't. 92 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 4: And this is one of those stories that I think 93 00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 4: the shock value of the what this young man had 94 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 4: to have endured is not easily explained as saying he 95 00:05:27,120 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 4: was walking down the road and it was a hit 96 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 4: and run, because that's the explanation we've heard of a 97 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 4: possible way that he could have ended up dead in 98 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 4: this particular way. 99 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:39,240 Speaker 3: But Joe. 100 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 4: I looked at this list of injuries, and there are 101 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:48,800 Speaker 4: certain things that happened to Noah press Grove and his 102 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:53,760 Speaker 4: body that even after looking down this list and reading 103 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 4: reports and everything else, I still cannot, for the life 104 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,920 Speaker 4: of me, think of any way this could happen other 105 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 4: then what appears to me a gang beating, teaching somebody 106 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:06,839 Speaker 4: a lesson. 107 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know this list, Okay, let me, let 108 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: me let me kind of add a caveat here with 109 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: with motor vehicle, and that's what has been alleged, okay, 110 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: along that it was a motor vehicle related event, perhaps 111 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,719 Speaker 1: struck by a vehicle. We know that they're in the 112 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,920 Speaker 1: story woven throughout. There is an ATV, an all train 113 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 1: all terrain vehicle that has been wrecked okay, But I 114 00:06:41,839 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 1: think the main thing that was put forward is that. 115 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:47,040 Speaker 2: You've got a. 116 00:06:46,960 --> 00:06:52,600 Speaker 1: Young man that's found deceased adjacent are on the roadway. Uh, 117 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 1: and he has got a laundry list of injuries that 118 00:06:57,600 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 1: you would think might be related to a motor vehicle 119 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:07,159 Speaker 1: accent day. But the problem is is that the motor 120 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: vehicle accident that he would have been involved in to 121 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 1: generate this kind of trauma, I think would have been 122 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: he would be seated in the cabin of a car 123 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: and pushed off a three story building and impacted nose 124 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 1: dived into the and even that, you're still not going 125 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: to get some of this stuff. 126 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, I hadn't thought about it that way. 127 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 4: I've just tried to look at it from Okay, if 128 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,440 Speaker 4: you were hit by a car, he knows certain things 129 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 4: that happen. 130 00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, because it does happen. People do get hit by 131 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 3: a car, Oh. 132 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, all the time. 133 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 4: Very rarely do you get hit and then rolled under 134 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 4: hitting and going under all four tires. 135 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 3: Usually you bounce off a little bit, you know. 136 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 2: Well you do, but we do. 137 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 1: But there's a category for what's referred to as rollover injuries. 138 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: And you know, the circumstances. Actually, dave have to be 139 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:03,440 Speaker 1: just right for that to happen. First Off, many times 140 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 1: with a okay, let's just say we have a pedestri 141 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 1: it's called pedestrian versus vehicle. Let's just say we do 142 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: have a pedestrian and you've got a vehicle operator. There's 143 00:08:16,600 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: so many things that come into play. First off, the 144 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 1: height of the vehicle, the total wheelbase of the vehicle, 145 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: how you know kind of wide the vehicle is from 146 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: tire to tire, the speed, reaction time on the part 147 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 1: of the driver. I guess you could also factor in 148 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: there an awareness or lack of awareness on the part 149 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:43,280 Speaker 1: of maybe the victim. Many times, if you have a 150 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: braking event where you've got a pedestrian that's in the roadway, 151 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: you'll see a response on the part of a driver 152 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 1: that has awareness that when they press on the brakes. 153 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: First off, you've got deceleration, but also the nose of 154 00:09:03,040 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 1: the vehicle will slightly drop down. Okay, and when that 155 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,400 Speaker 1: nose of the vehicle drops down, if it strikes someone 156 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 1: in the legs or in the thigh the hip, it 157 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: can deflect them. I've had these cases where people go 158 00:09:23,000 --> 00:09:26,080 Speaker 1: over the top of the car into the windshield. Actually, Dave, 159 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 1: I actually had a case one time where a guy 160 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 1: came through a windshield and was decapitated and the head 161 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 1: wound up in the seat of the vehicle adjacent to 162 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:40,719 Speaker 1: the operator of the vehicle. And the guy that this 163 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:44,760 Speaker 1: happened to that was I just had this memory. This 164 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: was actually on Ien down in New Orleans. The guy 165 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,000 Speaker 1: that was driving the vehicle, he was headed to the 166 00:09:52,040 --> 00:09:55,600 Speaker 1: New Orleans Airport, and he was Cabby, and he didn't 167 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 1: speak very good, very good English. He came, the guy 168 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: came through his windshield, decapitated him, and the guy's head, 169 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:05,560 Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, either wound up in the Cabby's 170 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: lap or in the seat adjacent to him in the 171 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: torso was still in the vehicle kind of hanging off 172 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: to the side when we got there. It was absolutely horrific. 173 00:10:15,960 --> 00:10:21,640 Speaker 1: But it's almost unpredictable as to what's going to happen 174 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,920 Speaker 1: with a body when they're struck by a vehicle. But 175 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 1: with Noah's Noah's injuries, Dave there, I was looking at 176 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: the list. By the way, y'all, Dave does this incredible 177 00:10:35,800 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 1: job of backing me up, and I truly need a 178 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,240 Speaker 1: lot of backing up the list, Dave, I did not remember. 179 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: I did not remember how extensive and exhaustive this list 180 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: of insults were to Noah's body until they were represented 181 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:56,640 Speaker 1: to me again. 182 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 4: Oh, you had time, because we've actually had time now 183 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 4: that we heard a number of different stories, and some 184 00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:05,160 Speaker 4: of them have kind of washed whitewashed it a little bit, 185 00:11:05,360 --> 00:11:07,839 Speaker 4: you know, as to what may have happened to know 186 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:10,559 Speaker 4: Ah Press Grove. But when you get right down to it, 187 00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,920 Speaker 4: this is what happened to his body. This is this 188 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:17,200 Speaker 4: is when he was found. Okay, all of this was 189 00:11:17,240 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 4: done when he was found just before six am after 190 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 4: a weekend of partying with friends. All Right, he has 191 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:30,320 Speaker 4: a conversation argument three point fifteen two hours later, two 192 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 4: and a half hours later. 193 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:32,880 Speaker 3: This is the condition of his body. 194 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,439 Speaker 4: Joe found on the road about a mile and a half, 195 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 4: two miles from the house where they've been partying. 196 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:43,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is I'm not saying that you can 197 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: see the end of the world from the locale, but 198 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 1: it's it's out. You got to pump in sunshine out here. 199 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: I mean, it's terrible. Oklahoma's case. Folks aren't aware of it. 200 00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:06,800 Speaker 1: It's not far away as crow flies actually from from 201 00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:12,280 Speaker 1: the Dallas area. And you know it's all relative in 202 00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,800 Speaker 1: Texas and Oklahoma because things are so big out there. 203 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 1: But it literally sits right on the Oklahoma Oklahoma Texas border, 204 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 1: and it's it's kind of north west of Dallas. And 205 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:29,920 Speaker 1: let's face it, I mean it's a it's an agricultural area. 206 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:31,640 Speaker 1: You know, you're going to have a lot of farmers 207 00:12:31,679 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 1: around there and that sort of thing. You're gonna have 208 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:38,080 Speaker 1: a lot of a lot of wide open spaces for kids, 209 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: particularly you know, young teenagers, I mean older teenagers and 210 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:45,640 Speaker 1: young adults that can rip and roaring out there and 211 00:12:45,679 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: they can have all the fun they want. But I've 212 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: got to tell you, when I dropped this list on 213 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:56,360 Speaker 1: you guys, I don't know, but I predict, just like me, 214 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna be shocked. They've these these injuries that that 215 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: no Press Grove sustained are not merely limited to his head. 216 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 3: Uh. 217 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 2: We've got injuries. 218 00:13:30,400 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: That that range from literally the soles of his feet 219 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,000 Speaker 1: to the top of his head. Let that sink in 220 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,319 Speaker 1: just for a second, now, that's one of the reasons 221 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: I was previously talking about, and just indulge me for 222 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,319 Speaker 1: just a second. But when people are struck by a 223 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,600 Speaker 1: motor vehicle, let's just say pedestrian struck by a motor 224 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: vehicle and they're upright, we look for things called bumper 225 00:13:58,760 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: marks on the body, and that means that's the point 226 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,679 Speaker 1: of impact, if you're struck in the leg or the hip, 227 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,160 Speaker 1: and it generally most of the time it's very definitive 228 00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: you'll see a contusion because obviously when when they're alive, 229 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: you're going to brewse right, and then the body is 230 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: pitched over to one side or the body is rolled 231 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:23,160 Speaker 1: over and the vehicle run continues on down the road. Dave, 232 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:27,840 Speaker 1: in a case like this, and when we consider the 233 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: extent the extent of the injuries, I would not be 234 00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,680 Speaker 1: as inclined to believe that this is a standard rollover. 235 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: I'm not saying he wasn't rolled over. I guess the 236 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:40,840 Speaker 1: question I would have to ask is how many damn 237 00:14:40,880 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 1: times was he rolled over? All right, it's not like 238 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 1: a it's not like you're going to get this in 239 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 1: one fail swoop, because Dave, we've got we've got ribs, 240 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 1: we've got cervicle, vertebra, we've got skull, we've got tissue 241 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: being peeled away with his young men. And if you'll 242 00:15:03,440 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 1: indulge me, I'll I'll go ahead and run this down 243 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: if you know, and we can. I just want everyone 244 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 1: to kind of understand, you know what we're what we're 245 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:16,160 Speaker 1: talking about, you know, when when his remains were finally 246 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: finally come across and here we go, we've got so 247 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 1: Noah had ten broken ribs, He's got a fractured skull, 248 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:37,680 Speaker 1: next spine fractures, internal bleeding. So I mentioned the damaged skull. 249 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:44,520 Speaker 1: He's got internally, he's got brain brain hemorrhage. And Dave, 250 00:15:44,560 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: there's something that's kind of kind of interesting here. When 251 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,200 Speaker 1: they did the examination and they kind of dissected out, 252 00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: you know, through his brain and down his spinal cavity, 253 00:15:54,520 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: they actually found air and inside of these areas, which 254 00:16:00,360 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: is something Well, it tells me that these bones were 255 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: fractured so extensively that they they were open, they were 256 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: open to the environment. Do you reil us how hard 257 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: it is to crack open? I mean, skulls are hard 258 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,480 Speaker 1: to crack open. Do you realize how difficult it is 259 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: to crack open a cervical vertebra and not just one? 260 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:26,480 Speaker 1: Hang on, let me refer back to my notes, I 261 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 1: feel like I'm a trial. Now We've got C one, 262 00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 1: which is actually referred to as your atlas if you'll, 263 00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 1: if you'll imagine the image of the Titan. I think 264 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: he was a Titan, the Greek Titan Atlas holding up 265 00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,120 Speaker 1: the earth on his shoulders. That's where the term C 266 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,240 Speaker 1: one or the atlas vertebra comes from. It drops down 267 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,560 Speaker 1: to C two, C three is apparently C three. 268 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:57,240 Speaker 2: C four. 269 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: And C five are not damaged. But then it jumps 270 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,199 Speaker 1: to C six and seven. So you've got this this 271 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:11,760 Speaker 1: area in his neck which is the most proximal to 272 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,680 Speaker 1: the base of the skull C one and C two, 273 00:17:14,600 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 1: and then you're going to jump over three other vertebral 274 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:24,360 Speaker 1: bodies and landing on six, C six and C seven, 275 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: and those are all fractured. So that almost maybe it 276 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:37,440 Speaker 1: maybe it doesn't, but that almost smacks of two separate impacts, okay, 277 00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: just simply based on the cerebral on the curfable vertebra. 278 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 2: Rather. 279 00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: The other thing too, that I remember now making note 280 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:53,919 Speaker 1: of is that the C one not only is it fractured, 281 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: David C one was displaced, which means it's kind of 282 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 1: if you think about the spine if you're just if 283 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 1: you were looking at a skeleton running from north to south. Okay, 284 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:08,719 Speaker 1: in the vertical plane at the very top. You know, 285 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: the the reason people go to go to chiropractice many 286 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,160 Speaker 1: times is because the spinal alignment and all that sort 287 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: of thing. Well, there's a particular spinal alignment in the 288 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: vertical plane and Dave, the very top, the very top 289 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: vertebra again atlas that supports the skull is knocked over 290 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:31,440 Speaker 1: to one side. How does that even happen? 291 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 2: Dave? 292 00:18:31,720 --> 00:18:35,919 Speaker 1: We you know when when people see that, when it 293 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 1: has been seen and documented over the years. Judicial hangings, 294 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: Oh wow, yeah, judicial hangings where you get that kind 295 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: of displacement like that, and you get the fracturing, you know, 296 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,760 Speaker 1: the old fracturing at the neck. By the way, we're 297 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 1: still going to do an episode on judicial hangings at 298 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: some point in time that I've talked about doing for 299 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: a long time. 300 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,200 Speaker 4: I've tried to look at these injuries and think, Okay, 301 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,119 Speaker 4: how could any one of these happen? And realize that 302 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 4: when you start thinking about again geography, where was he found? 303 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 4: It was found just off of a road early morning 304 00:19:12,359 --> 00:19:16,719 Speaker 4: before six am. And we know that his clothes. By 305 00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,119 Speaker 4: the way, haven't mentioned this yet, Noah press Grove with 306 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 4: all these injuries, Joseph Scott Morgan was found naked. His 307 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 4: clothes were sitting by him folded. Now what you know, 308 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,399 Speaker 4: what is he flying through the air. The clothes are 309 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,560 Speaker 4: coming off before the next tire rolls back over his 310 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 4: head to peel some skin, and his shirt falls off 311 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 4: and it folds itself like a Genie in the night 312 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:46,399 Speaker 4: pants to and then I guess when he's back up 313 00:19:46,440 --> 00:19:48,399 Speaker 4: in the air, he decides to brush his teeth. 314 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,439 Speaker 3: But oh, they're all knocked out. We didn't get to 315 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:51,920 Speaker 3: that yet. 316 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 4: But let's get right to the rest of the injuries, 317 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:58,920 Speaker 4: because again you're talking about pre six am side of 318 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 4: the road country rode code. He's got these injuries ten 319 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 4: broken ribs, serious gold neck and spine fractures, internal bleeding, 320 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:11,480 Speaker 4: brain and organ damage, cuts and grazes all over his body. 321 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:14,399 Speaker 4: And you pointed out he had about twenty mili liters 322 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:18,760 Speaker 4: of blood pulled inside his head from a brain bleed. 323 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 3: How much is said, Joe, oh. 324 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: Twenty MILLI leaders, let's see if I could do the 325 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: math on that very carefully. It's more than should be 326 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 1: there okay, all right, And so there's an indwelling hemorrhage 327 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: in there. So you've got this impact that has affected 328 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 1: these little vessels, which there are many of within the brain. 329 00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 1: And we've talked about this on bodybacks before, Dave that 330 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,479 Speaker 1: the brain and probably secondarily to that. I know we'll 331 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,600 Speaker 1: probably get gigged on this by one of our friends, 332 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: but the brain and the liver are two of the 333 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:59,840 Speaker 1: most vascular organs in the body, probably the brain hands down, 334 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,960 Speaker 1: but liver is very vascular as well. That's why if 335 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:07,200 Speaker 1: you have liver damage traumatic, you know, you got to 336 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:09,320 Speaker 1: get you have to get that repaired. You're going to 337 00:21:09,359 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 1: bleed out into your gut brain same way. But the 338 00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,680 Speaker 1: problem is with the brain is that not only are 339 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:20,639 Speaker 1: you experiencing this extensive hemorrhage and this pressure that's building 340 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: up inside of there. It's not just the blood loss, 341 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: it's also the pressure within the cranial vault. It's kind 342 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,360 Speaker 1: of squeezing down on the brain. That's why there has 343 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,680 Speaker 1: to be surgical intervention. But David, I got to tell you, brother, 344 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: I think you could have had an entire staff of 345 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: neurosurgeons standing there adjacent to that roadway. He wouldn't have 346 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 1: had two hoots and hell's chance of surviving this because 347 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 1: these injuries are so over the top with this kid. 348 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,600 Speaker 1: And again, I got to tell you, this smacks to 349 00:21:55,680 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: me of not just a single instant, you know, because 350 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,600 Speaker 1: of this the extent of the injuries we've got. And 351 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 1: just let me just bear with me, because he's got 352 00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 1: he's got road rash, which most of the time you're 353 00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 1: going to get road rash injuries from you can be 354 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: rolled over and just imagine a barrel rolling down the road. 355 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: That's what happens with your body, all right, if you're 356 00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: caught beneath the undercarriage of the car car rolls over you. 357 00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:31,639 Speaker 1: And there are very specific injuries you look for with 358 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,359 Speaker 1: that that translate from the undercarriage of the car also 359 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:37,000 Speaker 1: the tires of the car onto the body. And then 360 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 1: you've got the underlying road surface or if you have 361 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: been dragged by a car as well. So you have 362 00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 1: to try to understand the orientation of these of this 363 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:54,800 Speaker 1: road rash. Is it like linear, you know, like does 364 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 1: the road rash A way to interpret this, Okay, if 365 00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: you're looking at a all over type of event, if 366 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,359 Speaker 1: the body is log rolling down the road. That means 367 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,359 Speaker 1: like rolling like a log underneath a car. You're going 368 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 1: to have these kind of parallel markings on the body. 369 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:17,200 Speaker 1: You'll have them on the upper body and lower body, however, 370 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: and those will translate into road rash. If you have 371 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:26,399 Speaker 1: someone who is dragged behind a car, they're going to 372 00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,399 Speaker 1: be very linear and they'll be insane. Plane. Let's just 373 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: say someone is being drugged by the bumper of a vehicle. 374 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: You might have these abrasions and dave, they're going to 375 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 1: look strided. Shrided means like streaked, and they'll generally be 376 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,719 Speaker 1: about as wide as your hand, all right, because it's 377 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 1: a point of contact, and you'll have multiple surfaces and 378 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: the body is being drug down the road, and they're 379 00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 1: all gonna be linear and kind of parallel to one another. 380 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:59,760 Speaker 1: So when you're thinking about orientation of the body to 381 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:04,600 Speaker 1: the vehicle and to the road surface, what pattern were 382 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,199 Speaker 1: these in Because we haven't necessarily heard that yet, you know, 383 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:12,399 Speaker 1: we do know that road rash exists or what the 384 00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: forensic pathologist is talking about. And by the way, the 385 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:22,760 Speaker 1: State Medical Examiner's Office in Oklahoma, it's one of the 386 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: finest in the country. First Off, it's a state Medical 387 00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:30,480 Speaker 1: Examiner's office. It's a standalone, separate entity from any law 388 00:24:30,520 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: enforcement agency. It's not like governed by the state police 389 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: or anything. It's a standalone agency. And they're renowned. They're 390 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:41,720 Speaker 1: renowned for their work and the quality of work that 391 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:42,120 Speaker 1: they do. 392 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 2: So I have no doubt. 393 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 1: He's got this abrasion, Dave. That's on multiple surfaces. So 394 00:24:49,359 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: he's got road rash on his upper back. He's got 395 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:59,120 Speaker 1: abrasions and grazes on his left shoulder, left arm, left 396 00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: side of the tors and both of his butt. Okay, 397 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: so he's kind of twisting and turning. 398 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 2: Again. 399 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,840 Speaker 1: We don't know if it's in necessarily the horizontal plane 400 00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 1: or the vertical plane that these things are running relative 401 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 1: to the torso itself, and that's just that's the external vision. 402 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:23,880 Speaker 2: That you have. He's also got healed. 403 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 1: Abrasions that they found on and scabs on his nose, 404 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 1: both of his hands, his knuckles, left foot, and heel. 405 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: He's got an ulcerated healing or ulcer on his right thigh. 406 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,760 Speaker 1: All of these, according to the Medical Examiner, these other injuries, 407 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:49,440 Speaker 1: which is fascinating to me, predate the night of this event, Dave, 408 00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 1: and they referred to as healed abrasions and scabs on 409 00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:56,639 Speaker 1: his nose and David, you know what, it's not just 410 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: that they're on his on his nose, they're on both 411 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:09,400 Speaker 1: hands as well, and the knuckles. Dave, when I see abrasions, 412 00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 1: when I hear about abrasions on hands and knuckles, you 413 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: know what, I think, you know, I think that there's 414 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:18,679 Speaker 1: physical altercation involved. But yet these things are healing. I 415 00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: think the one thing to try to understand is at. 416 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 2: What level of resolve are these injuries? 417 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: Is this something that because you could, I guess over 418 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 1: a thirty six hour period, you'll have enough of a change. 419 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,160 Speaker 1: And I think that we can all relate to this. 420 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: I mean we all can. You and I both can. 421 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:41,440 Speaker 1: If we scrape our hand. Let's say that right now, 422 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,080 Speaker 1: you and I scraped our hand. Thirty six to forty 423 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,760 Speaker 1: eight hours from now, that insult is going to look 424 00:26:49,760 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: completely different than it does right now. Yeah, you would 425 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 1: have a scab, you would have some a bit of 426 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: resolving that's going on with the injury. Certainly, you know, 427 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,760 Speaker 1: if you had a contusion there, the contusion is not 428 00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: going to be the same color as it was forty 429 00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:09,600 Speaker 1: eight hours earlier. Thirty six hours earlier, So I think 430 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: that within this timeframe, I mean, one of the questions 431 00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:17,119 Speaker 1: is what was going on, what had he been involved in? 432 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,840 Speaker 1: We do know this that those injuries were still there. 433 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 1: They hadn't gone anywhere, so they're not like ancient ancient injuries. 434 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,960 Speaker 1: I think that we can probably speculate on that a bit. 435 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 1: With with these injuries though, you're kind of over there's 436 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:44,000 Speaker 1: an overlay of of the of the fresh injuries and 437 00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: these old injuries. The problem is, like many times with 438 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: these with these issues, there's you know, sequencing that goes on. 439 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,560 Speaker 1: What was kind of fascinating about all this. You've got 440 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 1: this this guy that does Stuart Fisher, who's an internist, 441 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: and he had given he's a physician, he's like an 442 00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: internal uh internal medicine guy that has, according to the 443 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: Daily Mail, had worked you know extensively in emergency you know, medicine. 444 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:23,040 Speaker 1: They asked him to review the report, and the physician 445 00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 1: had actually stated that this this kid has suffered so 446 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: many catastrophic injuries, Dave, that any number of these insults 447 00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: could have killed him just like a stand alone UH. 448 00:28:40,480 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: I think probably the most significant one that the that 449 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 1: the uh that the doctor you know, pointed out was 450 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: the extensive, uh, the extensive skull fraction. As a matter 451 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: of fact, their you know, their comments relative to this, 452 00:28:55,920 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 1: and this comes from the police investigators that they described 453 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,760 Speaker 1: as head Dave is being caved in. Now, how can 454 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 1: you have a cave in? And that would be what's 455 00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:12,080 Speaker 1: referred to as a depressed skull fracture where you have 456 00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: to have energy transfer from an object to that underlying surface, 457 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,080 Speaker 1: the external table of the skull, so that that direct 458 00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 1: energy is coming from I don't know. 459 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,560 Speaker 2: A tire. 460 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:32,240 Speaker 1: Or a foot, or an object like a bat or 461 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:38,320 Speaker 1: a pipe. And you know, going back to the physition, 462 00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: he said, you know, Dave, there's five, maybe up to 463 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: ten life threatening injuries just in stand alone by itself. 464 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:51,160 Speaker 1: And that's again you have to ask yourself this question 465 00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,800 Speaker 1: a reasonable question here, could know Press Grove have sustained 466 00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: all of the totality of these injuries simply being struck 467 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,479 Speaker 1: by a motor vehicle with a single strike. I just 468 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,680 Speaker 1: I have a real hard time swallowing. 469 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:09,760 Speaker 3: Joe, what about. 470 00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:17,400 Speaker 4: What about the clumps of hair? What about the skin 471 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:21,840 Speaker 4: on the left side of his scalp that was torn 472 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 4: to the bone. I mean, I know there are thinner 473 00:30:25,760 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 4: parts of skin and things like that, But when you 474 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:32,560 Speaker 4: start talking about skin being torn to the bone, that's 475 00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 4: just animalistic behavior to me. It's something that unless you're 476 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 4: again now back to unless you are hit by something mechanical, 477 00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 4: if another human being did this, how enraged are you 478 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 4: that you can cause hair to be pulled out, ripping 479 00:30:50,520 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 4: skin to the skull. A clump of hair, A clump 480 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 4: of hair was observed on his right butt cheek without 481 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,440 Speaker 4: blood or tissue on it. Joe, have you ever seen 482 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 4: a car truck hit somebody and I guess the truck 483 00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 4: fairy goes back and finds some hair that's undamaged and 484 00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,040 Speaker 4: laid on the person like as a wreath. 485 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:12,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it all depends. 486 00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:16,480 Speaker 1: Well again we're back to folded clothes, right right. How 487 00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: how do you get head hair that is deposited on 488 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: the buttock? Well, it's a real dynamic situation. I'll give 489 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: you that if it is a rollover. But you know, 490 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,360 Speaker 1: when you couple that also with what was that you 491 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: had mentioned Off of the aspect of the face, we 492 00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,160 Speaker 1: had skin that was feeled back, David, this is a 493 00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: phenomenon that's known as degloving. Wow, degloving yeah, we. 494 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 3: Do gloving for everything we do. 495 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 1: Well you give a yeah, you really do because in 496 00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 1: some things are so and look, not all of it 497 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 1: comes directly from forensics because you have, you know, people 498 00:31:55,920 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: in standard medical practice, you know, deal with individuals that 499 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: have their skin has been degloved. You know, it does, 500 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:05,960 Speaker 1: it does happen. It's horrible, it's horrible, and you know 501 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: people wind up having skin grafts and all those sorts 502 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,320 Speaker 1: of things. But yeah, degloving for us, you know, it 503 00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,719 Speaker 1: has a couple of connotations. First off, you can have 504 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:19,959 Speaker 1: traumatic degloving and uh you get degloving with skin in 505 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: regards to decomposition, you know, like the hands de glove 506 00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:28,120 Speaker 1: we you know, and the more will actually take the 507 00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,760 Speaker 1: dermal level of the skin and peel it off the 508 00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 1: hands of a off of a decomposing body. Put a 509 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: latex glove over your own hand and insert your hand 510 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,640 Speaker 1: into the skin, the degloved skin of the deceased, and 511 00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,200 Speaker 1: we can roll fingerprints that way. I've done that many times. 512 00:32:46,680 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: It's kind of a creepy thing to do. I know, uh, 513 00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I know what you're thinking right now, No kidding, just got. 514 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 3: Actually think if it doesn't fit, you must have quite. 515 00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:00,680 Speaker 1: Well yeah, yeah, and that's again that's an other problem 516 00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,360 Speaker 1: because skin is so stretched. But I'm digressing. We could 517 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: do an entire episode on things that we have to 518 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:09,920 Speaker 1: do about decomposing bodies, like. 519 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 3: From the hair and the skin. What about the teeth, Joe? 520 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: Okay, The teeth are fascinating to me because you've got 521 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 1: this array of teeth that are lying about on the 522 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:27,880 Speaker 1: roadway well in order. The reason there is a term 523 00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: that people say they got their teeth knocked out is 524 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,320 Speaker 1: because it's a big deal day you're aize how hard 525 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:41,440 Speaker 1: it is to unroot a tooth traumatically, and that's a 526 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: single tooth, all right. I think one of the big 527 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,440 Speaker 1: questions I have and is was there was there any 528 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: kind of maxillary which means your maxilla is essentially the 529 00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,960 Speaker 1: roof of your mouth. Just give me a little rope here, 530 00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: but it's it's the roof of the mouth. So your 531 00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:08,000 Speaker 1: maxillary teeth, the upper teeth are seated in there. Then 532 00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: you have the mangellary teeth and those are indemandible, which 533 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:14,719 Speaker 1: is your jaw, all right, and they're deeply rooted. You know, 534 00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,560 Speaker 1: I think that most people can identify with this. You 535 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:19,760 Speaker 1: know what your teeth are like you ever had tooth pulled. 536 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: We're not just talking about one or two teeth. We're 537 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:25,040 Speaker 1: talking about multiple teeth that are scattered around on the 538 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: surface of the roadway. Well, most of time it's going 539 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:30,800 Speaker 1: to inquire. That's going to require a very forceful impact. 540 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,920 Speaker 1: I want to know what the underlying diagnosis were was 541 00:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: for the bony structure supporting the area. Was there extensive 542 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,000 Speaker 1: jaw fracturing or maxillary fracturing, because we know that his 543 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,799 Speaker 1: skull was fractured. Say what do they say earlier his 544 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: skull was caved in, Well, the upper skull if you're 545 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: talking about say the right or the left paridal area, 546 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,720 Speaker 1: which is that area that's if you'll find your temple 547 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: and kind of go above into the rear, that's the 548 00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,759 Speaker 1: parietal area, a sprietal bone right there, and then you 549 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:04,879 Speaker 1: have occipital bones in the back. They're kind of non 550 00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:11,560 Speaker 1: specific about that. I'd like to know what specifically what 551 00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 1: the teeth are, and I'm talking about anatomical orientation. 552 00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:17,359 Speaker 2: Uh, you know. 553 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 1: What what was left where the teeth Okay, where the 554 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:25,279 Speaker 1: teeth actually knocked out of his head or Dave, where 555 00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:29,920 Speaker 1: the teeth actually fractured and the root was still in 556 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,359 Speaker 1: place in the in the in the socket of the 557 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:39,160 Speaker 1: of the teeth. Totally two different things here. Okay, there's 558 00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:44,879 Speaker 1: there's so much trauma in in Noah's case, Dave, this 559 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:47,920 Speaker 1: this autopsy alone, just let me kind of run this 560 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:54,040 Speaker 1: down to you. The autopsy alone. When they got into 561 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: this thing, I would imagine it took them a couple 562 00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: of hours, and you know what, the line share of 563 00:36:00,520 --> 00:36:03,960 Speaker 1: their time would have been spent doing here, doing the 564 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:10,360 Speaker 1: external exam, because there's so much externally relative to his body. 565 00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,959 Speaker 1: Before you ever break out the cold steel, as we say, 566 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 1: and open his remains up, it would be a grand 567 00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 1: undertaking in order to examine him and try to assess 568 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,200 Speaker 1: everything measured appropriately. And I hadn't even talked about what 569 00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,440 Speaker 1: had happened in his chest cavity because we've got a 570 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,799 Speaker 1: closed head injury, or I guess you could say it's 571 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 1: kind of open if they're talking about a depressed skull fracture. 572 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:44,320 Speaker 1: But Dave, for Noah, both of his lungs were punctured, 573 00:36:45,880 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 1: so that means that puncturing of lungs comes about as 574 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,239 Speaker 1: a result of fractured ribs. Will refer to it many 575 00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:57,000 Speaker 1: times as a flail chess where you've got multiple ribs 576 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,200 Speaker 1: on both sides and you get what's referred to as 577 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,279 Speaker 1: like a floating cast. A lot of blood associated with this. 578 00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:08,040 Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, I think that they recovered 579 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: roughly about three point two pints of blood. It's about 580 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:23,040 Speaker 1: fifteen hundred millimeters of blood. He's got a contusion to 581 00:37:23,120 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 1: his heart, his spleen, and his stomach. So this kid 582 00:37:29,160 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 1: has just been obliterated, pounded, and it's not just external, 583 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:43,799 Speaker 1: it's what has happened to him internally. There were at 584 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:47,040 Speaker 1: the scene. The big thing about it is is that 585 00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,439 Speaker 1: with all of these injuries day, with the one thing 586 00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,759 Speaker 1: that really really catches your eye other than if you 587 00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:58,640 Speaker 1: didn't need anything else, Dave, there's no pools of blood. 588 00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 1: There's nools of blood out there. And how do you 589 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: generate all of these injuries and you don't have. 590 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 2: Like a large. 591 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:11,920 Speaker 1: Puddling of blood that's immediately adjacent to the body or 592 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:12,600 Speaker 1: the body. 593 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,120 Speaker 2: Is overlying it? Does? 594 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:32,160 Speaker 1: It just doesn't. It doesn't make sense that. Look, I'm 595 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm not going to sit here and say that you know, Noah, 596 00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:41,840 Speaker 1: some innocent little lamb that was you know, uh, just 597 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,960 Speaker 1: brought in that he hadn't been participating in partying and 598 00:38:45,040 --> 00:38:49,840 Speaker 1: all this sort of thing, But it still doesn't excuse 599 00:38:49,920 --> 00:38:53,839 Speaker 1: the idea of how much trauma he has had. I'll 600 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: tell you this for folks that are not aware. His 601 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:03,400 Speaker 1: blood alcohol is zero point one four, and that's that 602 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: exceeds the legal limit, okay, for intoxication, but that means 603 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 1: to operate a vehicle. Now he's under age. He's underage drinking. 604 00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:18,600 Speaker 1: So at point one four, you will be slurring your words, 605 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 1: You're going to have your motor activity and response time 606 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:26,280 Speaker 1: is going to be slowed down significantly. You know, legal drinking, 607 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: the legal limit for drinking or being drunk, according to 608 00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,360 Speaker 1: state law pretty much around the country, it's going to 609 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:40,520 Speaker 1: vary is generally point zero eight. His is point one four. 610 00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: So he's he's got you know, he's got a significant 611 00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:50,240 Speaker 1: amount of alcohol on board. It's not twice the amount 612 00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: quite yet of legal limit, but it's it's up there. 613 00:39:53,719 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 1: So he would have been impaired. But again, you know 614 00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:02,319 Speaker 1: somebody that's impaired, Dave is is the easily pounced upon 615 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:03,040 Speaker 1: by somebody. 616 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:05,480 Speaker 4: Well, let me give you the other part of this 617 00:40:05,560 --> 00:40:07,920 Speaker 4: shoe that I really wanted to make sure we understand 618 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 4: because we've covered most we didn't even cover all of 619 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:12,680 Speaker 4: his injuries. You have friends, just so you know what 620 00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,840 Speaker 4: you heard is a partial list. There's still more. But 621 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 4: when he was found in that state, with all those injuries, 622 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 4: he was naked. He wore only mismatched shoes. One was 623 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 4: in n Adidas and the other was a Hey dude's. 624 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,920 Speaker 4: There was debris and grass stuck in the laces of 625 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 4: each and more of them. On the left shoe, a 626 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:43,360 Speaker 4: silver plated chain necklace from Noah's grandmother was scattered in pieces. 627 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,640 Speaker 3: Not far away from a remnants of a tooth, not 628 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,600 Speaker 3: a whole tooth, remnants of. 629 00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:51,040 Speaker 2: A tooth, a fracture tooth. 630 00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:59,360 Speaker 4: Yes, his undamaged shores. We're seeing about thirty yards away. Jack, 631 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,320 Speaker 4: this goes back several months ago. Was Noah's best friend 632 00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:10,200 Speaker 4: said that the shorts were actually borrowed. This goes back 633 00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:13,240 Speaker 4: to that rollover incident with the vehicle. Yeah, they were dirty, 634 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,040 Speaker 4: They just grab clothes. You know, there were people spending 635 00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 4: the night and staying they were grabbing that. That does 636 00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,840 Speaker 4: not surprise me nearly as much, you know as a 637 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:23,640 Speaker 4: lot of the things that have happened. You know, the clothing. 638 00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,120 Speaker 4: What bothers me about the clothing is that he was 639 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 4: found naked with all those injuries, and his clothing was 640 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:34,719 Speaker 4: not on him near him torn. I mean it's you know, 641 00:41:34,840 --> 00:41:36,920 Speaker 4: does that make sense, Joe. That really bothers me that 642 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 4: he's left in a state of destruction and you're not 643 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 4: finding ripped clothes, torning clothes, bloody clothes. 644 00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:46,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 645 00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,200 Speaker 1: And I think this goes to an element. I think 646 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:54,080 Speaker 1: in legal terms, it's referred to as due care. You know, 647 00:41:54,520 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: we were Nancy recently and she was talking about that 648 00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 1: public doesn't have an obligation necessarily to tend to somebody 649 00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,040 Speaker 1: that's not directly in uh you know, like if you're 650 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:08,359 Speaker 1: a caregiver, if you're a parent, that sort of thing, 651 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: you do have a legal obligation you know, to take 652 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:13,319 Speaker 1: care of you know, infirmed people and children and all 653 00:42:13,360 --> 00:42:17,799 Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But it would seem to me, 654 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:20,759 Speaker 1: and there have been lawsuits that have been brought in 655 00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: regards to this sort of thing when somebody comes to 656 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:27,920 Speaker 1: a domicile and they're applied with alcohol and this is 657 00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:30,319 Speaker 1: I mean, bars have gotten sued over this. I know, 658 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:34,360 Speaker 1: you know that day where people will get get hammered 659 00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:38,319 Speaker 1: you know, at a local bar, and the the you know, 660 00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: the bar didn't use due care and allowed the individual 661 00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:42,840 Speaker 1: to leave, and they wind up either getting killed or 662 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,000 Speaker 1: killing somebody, that sort of thing. So how do you 663 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:52,279 Speaker 1: how do you allow someone to leave your domicile or 664 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,279 Speaker 1: in your and you know that they're they're drunk, and 665 00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,319 Speaker 1: they're they're naked, and they're wearing mismatched shoes. It's such 666 00:43:00,320 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: a bizarre set of circumstances. And then finally, you know, 667 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:11,279 Speaker 1: a little while later, he's found he's found dead a 668 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,919 Speaker 1: distance from the house, out on the road, Dave. 669 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:17,640 Speaker 4: And with conflicting stories from those who are at the party. Yeah, 670 00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:20,160 Speaker 4: that's the biggest issue. You got friends from Look, man, 671 00:43:20,719 --> 00:43:22,600 Speaker 4: you guys all grow up together. Yes, you were having 672 00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,280 Speaker 4: a party. Sett all that to the side, where kles, 673 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 4: we got a dead guy? What happened? We can't get 674 00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:31,320 Speaker 4: the same story from everybody the minute somebody's lying, somebody's lying, 675 00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:32,279 Speaker 4: you know. 676 00:43:32,719 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 3: And if you can't get if you've. 677 00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 4: Got five people telling five different stories, they could all 678 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 4: be talking about from their perspective of what they saw, 679 00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 4: but when you put it all together, they all make 680 00:43:43,000 --> 00:43:45,680 Speaker 4: sense that isn't happening here. So that's what let him 681 00:43:45,680 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 4: know his family finally, after not getting anywhere with any 682 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,000 Speaker 4: you know, by the way, I want to be very 683 00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:56,399 Speaker 4: the police have done the best job they can at 684 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,439 Speaker 4: this point. They've involved others, you know, they've done their investigation. 685 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,080 Speaker 4: But at a certain point in time, you know, you 686 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 4: you really have to know what happened, and they have 687 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:05,640 Speaker 4: yet to figure that out. 688 00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:09,920 Speaker 1: So no, and I don't know, I don't know that 689 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,480 Speaker 1: they have enough enough probable cause to move forward from 690 00:44:15,480 --> 00:44:20,560 Speaker 1: a legal standpoint in order to intensify the investigation. They 691 00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,760 Speaker 1: have said that they're not investigating this as a hom side. 692 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:28,200 Speaker 1: That was one. But I got to tell you, just 693 00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,080 Speaker 1: because you say you're not, they leave them. 694 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:33,480 Speaker 2: I've been down this road before. 695 00:44:34,040 --> 00:44:37,080 Speaker 1: Just because they say they're not doesn't mean I'm doing 696 00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:42,600 Speaker 1: air quotes right here. Doesn't mean that new information might develop. Yeah, okay, 697 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,960 Speaker 1: and not stupid. No, they're not and they're not going 698 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:50,200 Speaker 1: to show their hand. But they've just kind of this 699 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,879 Speaker 1: is really your strong suit here, just kind of lay 700 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:55,439 Speaker 1: out this lawsuit because it's well, they. 701 00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:58,160 Speaker 4: File a wrongful death lawsuit. They filed it and they 702 00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:00,719 Speaker 4: name names the family. This is the family of Noah 703 00:45:00,800 --> 00:45:03,160 Speaker 4: Press Grove. And by the way, when you file a 704 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:08,240 Speaker 4: civil lawsuit, it's always monetary, right, But in this case, 705 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,400 Speaker 4: they're not asking for enough money, like they're asking for 706 00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:12,520 Speaker 4: seventy five thousand dollars. 707 00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,000 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, hey, I got it. 708 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:15,719 Speaker 1: I'm glad you said this, because when I saw it, 709 00:45:15,719 --> 00:45:20,480 Speaker 1: I was thinking, yeah, if this was my kid, you know, 710 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:24,520 Speaker 1: there's going to be a one at minimum with six 711 00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: digits after that. And I saw seventy five. Boy, the 712 00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: smacks of just trying to elicit information, and to me 713 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:34,000 Speaker 1: it does at least. Yeah, I want to know. I 714 00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:36,200 Speaker 1: got to tell you this is the one thing about it. 715 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:39,280 Speaker 1: I know that that this is putting the onus on 716 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:43,719 Speaker 1: Noah here attorney. As we say, attorneys are going to attorney, 717 00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: that's what they do. But the fact that the Press 718 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: Groves filed this lawsuit, Dave, I tell you what they're 719 00:45:54,120 --> 00:45:56,359 Speaker 1: what we're staring down the barrel of here. We're going 720 00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:59,839 Speaker 1: to be getting some depositions and they will be under 721 00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,560 Speaker 1: a they will be so ordered by the court and 722 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,400 Speaker 1: somebody is going to have to go into a big 723 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,000 Speaker 1: oak paneled office somewhere with lots of fancy books in 724 00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 1: a room. They're going to sit at a big table, 725 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:16,120 Speaker 1: and there's going to be a court reporter sitting right there. 726 00:46:16,160 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 1: There's gonna be a microphone in front of them, and 727 00:46:19,520 --> 00:46:22,840 Speaker 1: the plaintiff will ask questions, and if they have an attorney, 728 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:27,239 Speaker 1: their attorney will try to deflect or reframe the thing, 729 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:32,880 Speaker 1: and there will be questions ask but the big question 730 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:39,440 Speaker 1: is will we actually get any answers. I'm Joseph Scott 731 00:46:39,480 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: Morgan and this is body Backs