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Speaker 1: Welcome to Daily Variety, your daily dose of news and

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Speaker 1: analysis for entertainment industry insiders. It's Monday, November seventeenth, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. I'm your host, Cynthia Lyttleton. I am co

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Speaker 1: editor in chief of Variety alongside Remins Setuda. I'm in

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Speaker 1: LA He's in New York, and Bridy has reporters around

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Speaker 1: the world covering the business of entertainment. In today's episode,

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Speaker 1: we'll talk with Farridy's Brent Lang about the magic conjured

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Speaker 1: at the box office by now you see me, now

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Speaker 1: you don't. And we'll hear from Focus Features chairman Peter Kojowski.

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Speaker 1: He spoke with me last week about moviegoing, fandom, and

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Speaker 1: other things pertinent to the film business. But before we

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Speaker 1: get to that, here are a few headlines just in

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Speaker 1: this morning that you need to know. At the Motion

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Speaker 1: Picture Academy's Governor's Awards on Sunday night, the emotion was

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Speaker 1: flowing as hard as the rain was earlier in the weekend.

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Speaker 1: Tom Cruise gave a great speech about movie making being

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Speaker 1: the definition of who he is as he accepted his

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Speaker 1: honorary Oscar Debbie Allen and production desire Wyatt Thomas also

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Speaker 1: made buzzing speeches about the state of the business as

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Speaker 1: they received honorary oscars at the One and Only. Dolly

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Speaker 1: Parton received the Gene Herscholdt Award for her humanitarian work,

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Speaker 1: which is immense. She accepted her honor via video from Nashville.

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Speaker 1: It was a great night all around. Sinclair Broadcast Group

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Speaker 1: has been in rough shape now for a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: There's even been talk of the company flirting with bankruptcy,

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Speaker 1: but now they're going full speed in the other direction

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Speaker 1: and trying to buy scripts TV stations. This is in

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Speaker 1: response to Next Star going after Tegna. All of these

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Speaker 1: deals are banking on rule changes at the FCC because

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Speaker 1: at present these transactions would not be legal under the

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Speaker 1: current law that limits the number of stations that a

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Speaker 1: single entity can own. AI is a threat to the

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Speaker 1: future of documentary films. This is the big theme coming

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Speaker 1: out of the IDFAD Documentary Film Festival in Amsterdam this week.

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Speaker 1: There's huge concerns among filmmakers that the rise of AI

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Speaker 1: created imagery is going to make it harder to document,

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Speaker 1: investigative reporting, and many many other issues. Variety correspondent Rafas

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Speaker 1: sales Ross has a chilling report. All of these stories

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Speaker 1: and so much more can be found on Variety dot

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Speaker 1: com Right now. Now it's time for conversations with Variety

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Speaker 1: journalists about news and trends in show business. If it's Monday,

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Speaker 1: we're talking box office. Brent Lang, Variety's executive editor, walks

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Speaker 1: us through the stumble of Running Man for Paramount Pictures

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Speaker 1: and the surprise conjured by Now You See Me, Now

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Speaker 1: You Don't for Lionsgate. Brent Lang, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for joining me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: Well, just like in baseball, it's why the sports writers

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Speaker 1: go to every game. This weekend, the box office was

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Speaker 1: very unpredictable. Brent, tell me what surprised you about this weekend.

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Speaker 3: The big surprise is Now You See Me, Now You Don't,

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Speaker 3: which had a very solid domestic opening, made twenty one

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Speaker 3: point three million over the weekend, and it did really

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Speaker 3: well internationally. It picked up fifty four point two million

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Speaker 3: dollars to bring its worldwide total to seventy five point five.

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Speaker 3: And I think heading into the weekend people felt that

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Speaker 3: The Running Man with Glenn Powell It's an Edgar Wright film,

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Speaker 3: had a little more heat behind it, and that film

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Speaker 3: ended up really underperforming. They had expected to do between

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Speaker 3: twenty to twenty five million. It ended up doing seventeen

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Speaker 3: million domestically. But the really catastrophic part is that The

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Speaker 3: Running Man did not perform well internationally. A Running Man

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Speaker 3: earned eleven point two million dolls which brings its global

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Speaker 3: haul to twenty eight point two million dollars.

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Speaker 1: And that weakness internationally is concerning because Edgar Wright, the director,

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Speaker 1: who really does have a following, this is a big

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Speaker 1: swing for.

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Speaker 3: Him, and I think the other thing that people were

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Speaker 3: thinking was that Glenn Powell would be able to bring

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Speaker 3: in a bigger audience because he has been something of

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Speaker 3: a box office draw.

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Speaker 2: In recent year.

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Speaker 3: He was in Anyone But You, this rom com with

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Speaker 3: Sidney Sweeney that way overperformed expectations, and then he also

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Speaker 3: really had a very prominent role in Top Gun Maverick,

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Speaker 3: and he led the cast of Twisters, which was a

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Speaker 3: big summer hit. So it seemed like this was another

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Speaker 3: a lister and this is a little bit of a

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Speaker 3: dent in his ambitions to be a true above the

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Speaker 3: title attraction.

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Speaker 1: I'm just looking deep in your story, boy. Jeff Bock

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Speaker 1: top Analysts for Exhibitor Relations. He does not mince words quote,

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Speaker 1: this thing is dead in the water end quote. It

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Speaker 1: seems to me from talking to you and talking to

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Speaker 1: Rebecca Rubin, that more than ever, these opening weekends, whether

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Speaker 1: it's the AI or the data, they can really extrapolate

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Speaker 1: how it's going to perform, hence giving somebody like Jeff Bock,

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Speaker 1: who's a professional, the confidence to write off The Running

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Speaker 1: Man at least as far as its box office potential.

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Speaker 2: Do you buy that? Yeah? I do.

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Speaker 3: I mean I also think that when you look even

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Speaker 3: at like Predator bad Lands, which had on very well

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Speaker 3: in its opening weekend, got good reviews at pretty good

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Speaker 3: cinema scores, that film just dropped sixty eight percent in

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Speaker 3: its second weekend. That's a pretty steep drop. I don't

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Speaker 3: think movies are sticking around as long as they did.

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Speaker 3: And frankly, I think, you know, Hollywood is to blame

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Speaker 3: for this because they wanted to shrink the windows. They

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Speaker 3: were obsessed with shrinking the windows, and they used COVID

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Speaker 3: to effectively do that. But what they ended up doing

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Speaker 3: was training people to wait and tell something became available

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Speaker 3: on demand and you're just not seeing the kind of

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Speaker 3: word of mouth endurance hits that you used to have

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Speaker 3: five ten years ago, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: that is because people have been preconditioned to wait until

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Speaker 3: something comes onstreaming.

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Speaker 1: So it was a good weekend for Lionsgate and for

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Speaker 1: Jesse Eisenberg with Now.

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Speaker 2: You See Me. Yes.

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Speaker 3: It was a very good weekend for Lionsgate, and frankly,

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Speaker 3: Lionsgate needed it. Lionsgate has had a really rough period

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Speaker 3: at the box office for the past two years or so.

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Speaker 3: They've had a number of films that just did not

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Speaker 3: connect with audiences, like Ball Arena and Good Fortune, and

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Speaker 3: they've really struggled to figure out where they fit in

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Speaker 3: this new landscape. They make mid budget movies, and those

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Speaker 3: are the exact type of movies that are having a

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Speaker 3: lot of trouble drawing crowds right now. So I think

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Speaker 3: the hope is that this kicks off something of a

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Speaker 3: comeback for Lionsgate. And if you look ahead, the studio

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Speaker 3: has its best slate in a long time. It has

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Speaker 3: The Housemaid, which is an adaptation of a best selling

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Speaker 3: novel a hitting theaters in December, and then it has

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Speaker 3: a Michael Jackson biopic called Michael coming in twenty twenty six,

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Speaker 3: and of course a new Hunger Games movie. So if

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Speaker 3: Lionskate could get a more consistent run of hits, that

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Speaker 3: can really help the studio. There's always a lot of

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Speaker 3: suspicion that Lionsgate is looking to do something in the

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Speaker 3: M and A space, and if it gets a few

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Speaker 3: more kind of commercial performers, maybe there will be a little.

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Speaker 2: More heat on it.

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Speaker 1: Another thing that stood out to me in your report

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Speaker 1: a new title from director Osgood Perkins, who was certainly

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Speaker 1: buzzy ls last year, with the movie Long Legs being

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Speaker 1: a real surprise. His latest effort a horror pick keeper.

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Speaker 1: You describe it as earning a paltry two point five million.

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Speaker 3: It surprised me that it was that bad, and the

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Speaker 3: audience score of a D plus says that nobody liked

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Speaker 3: this thing.

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Speaker 2: Our fans rejected it.

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Speaker 3: This only cost six millions, but it is a dent

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Speaker 3: and Perkins luster here because he really was like a

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Speaker 3: consistent hitmaker with Long Legs and the Monkey. He's got

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Speaker 3: another movie coming out with Nicole Kimmon, called The Young People,

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Speaker 3: so he'll have a chance rebound. But it just shows

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Speaker 3: that people are discerning and you can't just throw a

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Speaker 3: horror movie out into the marketplace and expected to do

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Speaker 3: big business like it has to be of some quality.

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Speaker 2: Yep.

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Speaker 1: Well, I know next weekend will be a much more

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Speaker 1: active frame at the box office. Some big guns are

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Speaker 1: coming with the bigger titles that are coming in the

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Speaker 1: next six weeks. What are you personally most looking forward

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Speaker 1: to as a movie Guar as.

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Speaker 3: A movie Geir, I'm most looking forward to a movie

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Speaker 3: that will not save the box office, but Mart Supreme,

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Speaker 3: which I haven't seen yet with Timothy Shallomet, but really

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Speaker 3: hopeful that it does do well because these adult oriented movies,

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Speaker 3: which are what I as a moviegoer like the most,

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Speaker 3: have really struggled in terms of ticket sales, and I

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Speaker 3: worry that if they aren't financially viable, studios will stop

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Speaker 3: supporting them. And I think sometimes on film Twitter you read,

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Speaker 3: you know, criticism and feedback of people saying, why are

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Speaker 3: you so tough on this movie failing? And the reality

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Speaker 3: is that we're not looking at them films if they

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Speaker 3: are good or not. We're looking at them purely from

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Speaker 3: a box office perspective. And these movies do need to

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Speaker 3: make money because it is a business, and if they

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Speaker 3: are no longer financially viable, then studios will stop making them.

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Speaker 1: That is absolutely true. After our conversation, Brent, we're going

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Speaker 1: to hear from Peter Kajowski, chairman of Focused Features, who

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Speaker 1: was kind enough to take part in Variety's Business Manager's

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Speaker 1: Breakfast last week, and he has some really strong thoughts

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Speaker 1: about moviegoing. Focus really does make those adult dramas. So

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Speaker 1: we're going to keep hope a lot, Brent, and so

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Speaker 1: appreciate your taking the time to talk through the box

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Speaker 1: office numbers.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for having me.

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Speaker 1: As promised. Here's Peter Kajowski, chairman of Focus Features. He's

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Speaker 1: in his busy fall and winter season with Bogonia now

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Speaker 1: in theaters and Hamnet and Song Sung Blue on the way.

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Speaker 1: Kajowski took time to be our featured guest. You are

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Speaker 1: on November thirteenth at Variety's annual Business Manager's Breakfast event

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Speaker 1: in West Hollywood. Kojowski is a movie evangelist, and here

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Speaker 1: he offers up his thoughts about the state of movie going.

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Speaker 1: This is an interesting time for you because you have

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Speaker 1: three big movies coming out. Bogonia has just been released

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Speaker 1: formerly in theaters, and you have two big ones coming

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Speaker 1: Song Sung Blue and Hamnet twenty twenty five has been

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Speaker 1: a rocky year for the box office. What as you're

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Speaker 1: planning for twenty twenty six, how are you feeling about

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Speaker 1: the momentum and where the film business is.

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Speaker 4: The communal act of coming together to watch movies in

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Speaker 4: theaters and digesting a story as a collective is in

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Speaker 4: who we are right as a people, right as a civilization.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's always going to be strong.

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Speaker 4: It's going to be ups and downs, and for sure

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Speaker 4: we're seeing a moment at the box office this year

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Speaker 4: where it's a little tricky, but at the same time,

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Speaker 4: you know, look at the world, right, you know, it's like,

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Speaker 4: look at the.

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Speaker 2: Cost of moving.

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Speaker 4: So of course in that moment you're going to have

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Speaker 4: a little bit of a challenge of movie going and

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Speaker 4: things like that, But that's never permanent. These are six

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Speaker 4: cycles that we always, you know, go through and face

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Speaker 4: and within the context of what people's options are for entertainment,

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Speaker 4: what people's options are for engaging in a dialogue, movies

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Speaker 4: are always a great option. And I truly believe you know,

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Speaker 4: we're all talking about the October that the movie Businiss had.

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Speaker 2: By the end of November, I think we're going.

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Speaker 4: To be telling a very different story by the time

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Speaker 4: you see Wicked to come out, by the time we've

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Speaker 4: got Hamlett in theaters, by the time we see the

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Speaker 4: legs that we're seeing on Begonia right now, and all

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Speaker 4: those things. I think it really is just one of

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Speaker 4: these moments where you have people having to make choices

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Speaker 4: about where they're going and how they're spending their money.

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Speaker 1: And here Kojowski talks about Universal's general approach to making

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Speaker 1: the numbers work with the kind of adult dramas that

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Speaker 1: Brent Lang mentioned earlier. Kojewski also discusses the film business

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Speaker 1: shift from thinking strictly and four quadrants to the wider

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Speaker 1: world of movie fans psychographics. His enthusiasm is infectious.

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Speaker 4: I say it truly, hand on heart. We as focused

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Speaker 4: Universal make more revenue for every dollar of box office

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Speaker 4: that we get in than anywhere else, right, and that

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Speaker 4: allows us to then go and say to filmmakers like

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Speaker 4: your Bustlanthem, most to filmmakers like Chloe Jow, let's fuel

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Speaker 4: this movie. So let's really give this movie what it needs,

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Speaker 4: Like if Chloe Joe needs to build the Globe Theater

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Speaker 4: from scratch to tell the story of Hamnet as well

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Speaker 4: as she told it, then let's go and do that.

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Speaker 5: Would you say that Hamnet, Song, Sung Blue, and Bogonia

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Speaker 5: are they basically going for an adult drama audience or

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Speaker 5: do you see those three films as going for very

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Speaker 5: distinct slices of the adult movie going audience.

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Speaker 4: I think we probably we all still have a knee

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Speaker 4: jerk reaction to think about audience or quads or whatever.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 4: That's long but out the window. Well, of course there's

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Speaker 4: things you do that you have to pay attention to

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Speaker 4: clods because of certain marketing tools and things like that.

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Speaker 4: But the much more effective tools that we use are

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Speaker 4: the sort of psychographics. Right, There's groups that are taste makers,

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Speaker 4: there's groups that are creators themselves.

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Speaker 2: There's groups that are like.

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Speaker 4: The edgy, dark world of materials, whether it's like in

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Speaker 4: the worlds of gaming or movies or TV or whatever.

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Speaker 4: So within that framework, yes, each of those films has

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Speaker 4: very distinct and different audiences, which again is how we

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Speaker 4: can do three films like that so rapidly on our

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Speaker 4: schedule and really feel like we give them each their lane.

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Speaker 2: Where Begonia very much, you know.

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Speaker 4: It's got edge, it's about issues of today. Hamnet is

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Speaker 4: very much the journey of the emotional depths of just

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Speaker 4: what it means to feel and have family and lose

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Speaker 4: and love and all.

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Speaker 2: Of those things.

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Speaker 4: And then Song Sung Blue is this complete rap of

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Speaker 4: this joy bomb of a true story of real people

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Speaker 4: falling in love with each other who really had very little,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean, Like tip Jar, musicians find

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Speaker 4: each other fall in love, and that love story then

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Speaker 4: expands their ability to go and do their art in

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Speaker 4: a way that lets them dream the biggest dreams that

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Speaker 4: they could and live this huge life that they did,

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Speaker 4: even when there is tragedy at the center of it.

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Speaker 4: And those are all different audiences for different psychographics in

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Speaker 4: a way, but that includes all ages. There's with each

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Speaker 4: of these movies letterbox crowd, the young cool cinophile teens,

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Speaker 4: twenties crowd, and truly for all these movies, there is

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Speaker 4: also a ton of people in their fifties sixties showing

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Speaker 4: up who just like have grown up knowing that movies

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Speaker 4: matter and can tell these great stories and be compelling.

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Speaker 4: So I think you've got a lot of overlap and

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Speaker 4: the ven diagram between those psychographics, But the way you

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Speaker 4: talk to them about these movies is different and activates

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Speaker 4: a different part of those personalities who might be into

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Speaker 4: all three.

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Speaker 2: Of this film.

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Speaker 1: And nowadays you have no shortage of venues to talk

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Speaker 1: to people. Okay, my last question. You did something I

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Speaker 1: know was important to you focus Fest. You brought your

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Speaker 1: hardcore art house lover adult drama. Give us a couple

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Speaker 1: of things that you left focus Fest knowing about your

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Speaker 1: audience that you didn't know when it started.

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Speaker 2: It was actually really a math.

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Speaker 4: We did this experiential event on the Universal lot where

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Speaker 4: we screened four movies, two from the Back, Cattle even

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Speaker 4: two No.

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Speaker 2: One.

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Speaker 4: So we started with The Big Lebowski, then we screened

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Speaker 4: Promising Young Woman, Then we screened Bogonia, and then almost

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Speaker 4: midnight screening of Obsession, the horror movie we bought at

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Speaker 4: Toronto this year. And there was a real question of like, okay,

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Speaker 4: focus Fest, it's a long day. Oh are we going

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Speaker 4: to have people just show up for the two new

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Speaker 4: ones and smaller crowd for the library titles?

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Speaker 2: And I showed up right at noon when it began,

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Speaker 2: and it was packed already, and you sold tickets to

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Speaker 2: the pub. We sold tickets exactly, and it was packed with.

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Speaker 4: People who genuinely wanted all of those movies to the

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Speaker 4: point of there's an audience that just wants to engage

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Speaker 4: across the spectrum of what these movies can be.

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Speaker 2: And I think you look at Focus and go like, oh.

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Speaker 4: It's probably like an older audience. He was like a

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Speaker 4: little more sophisticated, genteel. It's like, no, these are folks

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Speaker 4: who are like, hell, yes, I'm gonna wait in that line,

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Speaker 4: and I want my big Lebowski bowling shirt pressed. And

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Speaker 4: then I want like I want to go to the

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Speaker 4: Promising Young Woman cafe and get my coffee with Cassie's spit,

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Speaker 4: which was just pumps of flavor or whatever.

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Speaker 2: But it was like they wanted.

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Speaker 4: To engage these movies that way, and again just feel

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Speaker 4: like the experience of the movie could be extended into

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Speaker 4: life in that way of owning it and feeling really

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Speaker 4: a part of it. On through being the tastemakers who

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Speaker 4: were among the very first to see then Bagonian obsession,

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Speaker 4: I think like there was a real passion. We had

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Speaker 4: people fly in from different parts of the country for

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Speaker 4: Focus Fest, which we did got to collect.

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Speaker 2: It was great.

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Speaker 1: As we close out today's episode, here's a few things

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Speaker 1: we're watching for keep your eye on Variety dot com.

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Speaker 1: This evening, we are doing a live stream with Mark

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Speaker 1: Malcolm from Universal's gala premiere of Wicked for Good at Lincoln.

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Speaker 1: The long awaited Part two hits theaters on Friday. Season

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Speaker 1: two of A Man on the Inside arrives Thursday on Netflix.

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Speaker 1: Ted Danson and Michael Scherr are a potent combination. Before

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Speaker 1: we go, Congrats to the half dozen CIA trainees who

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Speaker 1: were promoted to agent last week. Remember these names, Jos Abrams,

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Speaker 1: Stefano Priante, Will Purslow, Sidney Schiffman, Serena Silver, and Morgan Southwick.

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Speaker 1: Go get them. Thanks for listening. This episode was written

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Speaker 1: and reported by me Cynthia Littleton, with contributions from Brent

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Speaker 1: lang Stick Snake's hick Picks. Please leave us a review

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Speaker 1: at the podcast platform of your choice, and please tune

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Speaker 1: in tomorrow for another episode of Daily Variety