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Speaker 1: Body dimes, but Joseph's gotten more, you know. Down in

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Speaker 1: New Orleans. One of the things that New Orleanians have

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Speaker 1: pride themselves on is holding on to the past. And

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Speaker 1: holding on to the past is really played out down

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Speaker 1: there in the sense that there are so many old

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Speaker 1: homes that have survived all of these years, these decades.

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Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, things that you can't imagine

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Speaker 1: would still be standing, you know. And it's not just termites.

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Speaker 1: It's hurricanes, fires, cholera, outbreaks, yellow fever. But yet the

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Speaker 1: structures remain. And the thing about structures is that they

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Speaker 1: have a story to tell. Over the years, people have

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Speaker 1: asked me on any number of occasions, do you ever

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Speaker 1: see ghost because of what I did for a living?

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Speaker 1: And I have to be honest with you, I never have.

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Speaker 1: I never have. I've never seen any kind of spiritual

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Speaker 1: manifestation in my presence or anything like that. However, there

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Speaker 1: is something within me that believes that places are haunted.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what it is. There are just certain

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Speaker 1: locations you can go to and you kind of get

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Speaker 1: a chill. Well, one such place exists in Louisville, Kentucky,

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Speaker 1: and we're going to talk about that place today because

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Speaker 1: this particular location, which is an old Victorian house, is

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Speaker 1: actually on the Haunted Tour of the City of Louisville.

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Speaker 1: I think you might enjoy it. Let's dig in. I'm

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Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body Backs. I saw

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Speaker 1: Dave laughing when I said dig in, because this case

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Speaker 1: in particular involves a bit of digging. But let me

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Speaker 1: back up. I have to say that I am doing

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Speaker 1: this episode because my wife asked me to Kimmy. You know,

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Speaker 1: I always talk about Kimmy, and how can I say

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Speaker 1: no to her? And the reason I did is she

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Speaker 1: was doing some reading and actually, I have to full

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Speaker 1: full disclosure, she was actually doing some research for me

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Speaker 1: on buried bodies, and she said, you gotta do this case.

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Speaker 1: Case is fascinating. It's got so many twists and turns,

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Speaker 1: and look a lot of other people have done this.

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Speaker 1: All right, you can just go online and kind of

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Speaker 1: check it out. But the reason she wanted me to

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Speaker 1: do this is because it reminded her of a case

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Speaker 1: that I worked when I was in Atlanta. And before

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Speaker 1: I tell you about today's case, let me tell you

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Speaker 1: about that case. There were three men that had come

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Speaker 1: to Atlanta, and they were staying in one of the

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Speaker 1: high Rose hotels in downtown in Atlanta, and there's several

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Speaker 1: of them down there. I'm not going to name the hotel,

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Speaker 1: but for three days they had stayed in a room

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Speaker 1: doing crystal meth and having unbridled sex with one another

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Speaker 1: for three days and many times, what you will have

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Speaker 1: is that, particularly when a number of different types of drugs,

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Speaker 1: but crystal meth in particularly, I think that there is

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Speaker 1: a drug induced psychosis that takes place many times with

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Speaker 1: folks that you know, imbibe if you will. And in

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Speaker 1: this particular case, they were on the twenty second floor.

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Speaker 1: This individual came running past the bank of elevators there

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Speaker 1: a lady was getting on with her child. He's completely nude,

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Speaker 1: he's screaming, and he runs to the end of the

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Speaker 1: hallway and jumped through a window, a floor to ceiling

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Speaker 1: plate glass window. Plummets. Are you ready for this? Plummets

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Speaker 1: all these floors down. It's in the summertime. He hits

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Speaker 1: when he impacts the object below, which is actually the

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Speaker 1: top of the pool house adjacent to this big fancy pool,

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Speaker 1: his head splits open and a large portion of his

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Speaker 1: brain flies out of his head and lands in the

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Speaker 1: hot tub, and there's kids, families, you know, that are

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Speaker 1: swimming in the big pool. Thankfully there was no one

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Speaker 1: in the hot tub at the time. That case, as

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Speaker 1: you can imagine, kind of stuck with me all these

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Speaker 1: many years, and I remember distinctly coming home and telling

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Speaker 1: my wife about it, and you know, it's like one

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Speaker 1: of those moments, you can't make this stuff up. And

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Speaker 1: as a matter of fact, if I tried to take

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Speaker 1: that story probably to Hollywood and into a producer's office,

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Speaker 1: they laughed me out because it just seem like it's

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Speaker 1: completely implausible. But it's amazing to me, Dave the circumstances

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Speaker 1: that humans put themselves in many times, and our story

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Speaker 1: today involves involves three individuals that had put themselves into

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Speaker 1: some interesting positions.

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Speaker 2: A brain in the hot tub. Yeah, I'm not eating

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Speaker 2: one time soup anymore. That's done with that.

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Speaker 3: It was horrible.

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Speaker 1: You know. The bad thing about it is as ghastly

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Speaker 1: as this is, we had to use the skimmer neet

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Speaker 1: to get the to get that remnant of brain. And

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Speaker 1: the other thing about it is is that there was

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Speaker 1: and I felt so sorry for these family members that

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Speaker 1: were subjected to this. They were the uh there was

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Speaker 1: blood like leaking down the front of the pool house

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Speaker 1: and he was laying there and you know, his head

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Speaker 1: is completely shattered. You could see him from that perspective.

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Speaker 1: I remember trying to take photos from where I was standing.

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Speaker 1: You couldn't really appreciate it because it's so many floors up.

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Speaker 1: And let me tell you something. This is This is

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Speaker 1: one of those moments, Dave, when I was terrified because

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Speaker 1: I was on the it was above twenty floors. It

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Speaker 1: seemed that the number twenty two stands out to me,

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Speaker 1: and I remember getting vertigo. I was standing there looking

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Speaker 1: out of that window. And you know when you're if

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Speaker 1: you've never been into a big city, folks, and you're

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Speaker 1: on top of one of these buildings, and I've been

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Speaker 1: on several because I've had to work jumpers. Those buildings

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Speaker 1: create a canyon, and so win just like it. It

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Speaker 1: might it might be completely steady on the ground, but

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Speaker 1: you get up at that elevation and the wind whips

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Speaker 1: through those those those streets and the avenues and everything,

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Speaker 1: and it kind of it literally swirls up there. It's

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Speaker 1: really dangerous. I mean, it's terrifying. I remember thinking I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get swept out of this thing. I went

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Speaker 1: so far as to lay on the floor and crawl

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Speaker 1: toward the opening and the glass and started taking pictures.

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Speaker 1: And of course nothing I took really turned out. We

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Speaker 1: had a crime scene tech at that particular time that

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Speaker 1: was working for Atlanta Police Department, and they happened to

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Speaker 1: have a telephoto lens and they needed it anyway. They

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Speaker 1: had to take their own care, and I wound up

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Speaker 1: getting some of their images and it beat all I'd

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Speaker 1: ever seen. I'd never seen anything happen like this. It's

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Speaker 1: like a It's like a cerebral of visceration, you know,

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Speaker 1: by uh, well, let me tell you how doctors define

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Speaker 1: this and this is this is kind of funny. Pathologist

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Speaker 1: will actually list a cause of death and get that.

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Speaker 1: You're going to love this. I can see it coming.

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Speaker 1: One of the one of the things they talk about

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Speaker 1: with motor vehicle accents and fall. The beauty of this

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Speaker 1: the logic they say death as a result of rapid deceleration, right,

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Speaker 1: and this is that was the ultimate in a rapid

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Speaker 1: deceleration death. Okay, and you see it in motor vehicle accents,

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Speaker 1: but that you know, you're gonna fall. I don't know

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Speaker 1: that at twenty twenty two stories, if it was that,

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Speaker 1: if you could actually heat hit terminal velocity, I don't

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Speaker 1: think that you could. But you're you're cooking when you

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Speaker 1: and it's not like being in a car. It's just you, man,

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Speaker 1: it's just you against mother Earth at that point in time,

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Speaker 1: and that that pool house and he just impacted. I

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Speaker 1: mean it was dead center. Man, it was dead center.

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Speaker 2: Mom's everywhere. Yeh, kids going come on mom.

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Speaker 1: Oh. I felt so sorry. Man. There were little kids

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Speaker 1: down there too. It was horrible. It was horrible. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what it was about. And I know other

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Speaker 1: medical legal death investigators around the country that if there's

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Speaker 1: any out there, I know that many of them have

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Speaker 1: jumper stories because they're not they're not things that happen regularly,

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Speaker 1: but you do get enough of them, particularly if you

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Speaker 1: work in obviously large rural I mean, excuse me, large

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Speaker 1: urban areas, you'll get them. And I've had bridge jumpers,

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Speaker 1: building jumpers, what else. I've had a guy that fell

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Speaker 1: through an open an open hatch on a supertanker, and

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't believe what the inside of an empty supertanker

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Speaker 1: looks like because it had been emptied of oil and

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Speaker 1: I had to go down the internal ladder. I was

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Speaker 1: terrified there too, and he hit the eyebeam down there again.

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Speaker 1: Rapid deceleration injuries. So yeah, just because they're dead doesn't

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Speaker 1: mean that you're not in danger as a death investigator.

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Speaker 1: But hey, Dave, this this case today.

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Speaker 2: I think it's case back to the one you already started.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about look kind of transfer this particular case though.

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Speaker 2: We're not talking about a hotel, but we're talking about

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Speaker 2: a building that is so old, a house that is

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Speaker 2: sold that the actual police that show up think it

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Speaker 2: could be multiple apartments. They don't even know exactly where

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Speaker 2: to go because it's such a beautiful, beautiful place.

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Speaker 1: It's gorgeous merge.

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Speaker 2: And that's why when a nine one one call comes in,

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Speaker 2: just give your heads up here. First of all, you

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Speaker 2: already know we're going to be telling a story about

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Speaker 2: three men. Yeah, because you kind of let the cat

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Speaker 2: out of the bag when you told us the gay

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Speaker 2: story in the hotel. And rapid deceleration, which is not

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Speaker 2: going to leave my brain now for a long time.

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Speaker 1: Don't say to leave your brain, please, don't. Let's not

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Speaker 1: talk about that.

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Speaker 2: I could have done without them, but at any rate.

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Speaker 2: Jamie Carroll is a hairstylist and he also is gay,

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Speaker 2: and he decides to leave his small town upbringing to

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Speaker 2: go to an area where he can find more acceptance.

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Speaker 2: So he goes to the big city and things don't

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Speaker 2: work out real really as.

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Speaker 3: Fast as they need to.

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Speaker 2: He's having trouble making bills, and like many people do,

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Speaker 2: he's starts dealing drugs a little bit on the side

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Speaker 2: to try to make ends meet. Usually when you start

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Speaker 2: doing that, it's because you actually are using drugs too,

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Speaker 2: and in that party lifestyle, and you use the drug

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Speaker 2: selling to add to your purchasing in anyway, you ended

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Speaker 2: up becoming a drug dealer, you know. And so Jamie

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Speaker 2: Carroll was a hairstylist who ended up down a very

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Speaker 2: bad path for himself because he seemed like a very

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Speaker 2: nice man. Jeffrey Mount is an incredibly well educated guy.

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Speaker 2: He's a top official at Northwestern University. He actually was

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Speaker 2: doing a technology overhaul for the university. Imagine that. Imagine

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Speaker 2: what it would be like to be a charge of

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Speaker 2: doing a technology overhaul for a top ten college. Yes,

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Speaker 2: Northwestern's up there.

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Speaker 3: I mean, oh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, it's certainly in the top twenty now

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Speaker 1: one of the most expensive colleges in the exactly as

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Speaker 1: well in Chicago.

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey Munt very well paid. And by the way, is

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Speaker 2: he's very loud about his alternative lifestyle. Right, he is

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Speaker 2: not in the closet. There's not a closet in his house.

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Speaker 2: And everyone he works with knows this about him. He

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Speaker 2: doesn't want this to be something that is you know,

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Speaker 2: comes back and gets him. So he's very outward. He's

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Speaker 2: gay anyway. Well, he also has another friend, and this

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Speaker 2: guy is Joey Bayness. Now Joey comes from a very

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Speaker 2: well to do family. His dad's a surgeon. I think,

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Speaker 2: big money, lots of connections. But for whatever reason, Joey

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Speaker 2: is the He's the black chep of the family. If

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Speaker 2: he's an only child, he's still the black cheap of

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Speaker 2: the family. And he's just that kid that he grew

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Speaker 2: up with all of the possible opportunities and advantages that

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Speaker 2: anyone person can have and turned his back on him

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Speaker 2: and got tatted up and ran down a fellony highway.

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Speaker 2: So and also gay, also into drugs as a matter

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Speaker 2: of fact, Joey and Jamie were close as druggies drug pals. Well,

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Speaker 2: Joey is dating Jeffrey month and they have I'm trying

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Speaker 2: to find the right way to put this a lover's quarrel. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And Jeffrey calls nine to one one. He's scared to

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Speaker 2: death that Joey is going to kill him. His boyfriend's

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Speaker 2: going to kill him, right, And so the police arrive.

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Speaker 2: Now here you have this incredible home that again I say,

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Speaker 2: the police couldn't even find it right off because they

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Speaker 2: show up that building, but it looks like it's a

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Speaker 2: it's an apartment complex. It does not look like one home.

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Speaker 2: And can I can't imagine that, Joe. I mean you've been.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned how New Orleans and even certain areas of

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Speaker 2: Atlanta have these kinds of homes that are so big

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Speaker 2: that you just look at it and go, that's it's

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Speaker 2: not the Clampet's going who lives upstairs?

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Speaker 1: Noose?

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Speaker 3: They're big homes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I've been, and you know, I got to

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Speaker 1: tell you in case anyone's ever wondered about this, And

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Speaker 1: I hate to say this, but when you show up

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Speaker 1: on a scene where you're dealing with individuals that have

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Speaker 1: power and money and they live this kind of ostentatious

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Speaker 1: kind of lifestyle where you first off, you know the

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Speaker 1: value of the properties in there, and everything is perfectly

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Speaker 1: manicured when you show up there and listen. Bad things

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Speaker 1: happen in those neighborhoods as well. People doesn't happen as

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Speaker 1: with greater frequency as it does if you're out with

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Speaker 1: you know, people that are just struggling day to day

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Speaker 1: and they don't have a lot of money, but things

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Speaker 1: still and sometimes things get really dark in those environments.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I think that many people have too much money

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Speaker 1: and too much time on their hands, is the way

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Speaker 1: it plays out. They're not they're not putting forth in

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Speaker 1: life to go down a good path, to try to

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Speaker 1: I don't know, to try to benefit themselves and other folks,

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Speaker 1: and they get distracted and they wind up in drugs

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Speaker 1: and you know, and in this particular case, if I

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Speaker 1: had been the investigator that would showed up, would have

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Speaker 1: shown up, I probably think the same thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: what unit is this in?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 1: It ain't in a unit. It's in the house.

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Speaker 3: It is the house. It is the house.

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Speaker 1: And I you know, and I've been and listen, I've been.

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Speaker 1: I've been in homes before. I've been like in Creole

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Speaker 1: where for its Creole mansions in New Orleans, everything's leaded class.

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Speaker 1: They've still got the original medallions on the ceiling where

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Speaker 1: the chandeliers are hanging down from and you walk through it,

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Speaker 1: and as you know, a kid that grew up really poor, i'd,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'd i'd look around, you know, in these places,

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Speaker 1: and I'd say, you know, why am I here? And

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Speaker 1: then I have to tell myself, I'm a death investigator.

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Speaker 1: That's why I'm here. And I've got somebody that's dead,

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Speaker 1: and you have to fourth and do the job.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's I was going to ask you about this

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Speaker 2: because this one started off with a domestic violence call,

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Speaker 2: and most of us know that police hate a domestic

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Speaker 2: violence call. They're horrible because they can go so bad,

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Speaker 2: so fast. And I don't think there's any difference between

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Speaker 2: boy girl boy boy girl girl. Domestic violence is domestic violence,

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Speaker 2: you know, and they're just as risky no matter who

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Speaker 2: it is. And in this case, Jeffrey Munt, the super

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Speaker 2: educated rich guy, is on nine one, is on the

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Speaker 2: phone telling them that his boyfriend Joey bane is his

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Speaker 2: beating is he's going to kill him. And so when

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Speaker 2: the police get there, they find Joey. He's tatted up

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Speaker 2: and he Joey tells them a story. They cuff him

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Speaker 2: and take him downtown. Now Joey knows he's got a

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Speaker 2: lot of legal issues, he's had a history with law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey mont meanwhile, not so much. And so they take

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Speaker 2: Joey downtown. They believe Jeffrey Munt is the victim him

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Speaker 2: and on the way there, Joey says, hey, man, I

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Speaker 2: got a story for you. Basically, you guys are taking

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Speaker 2: me to jail for this. I got you sure you're yeah,

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Speaker 2: you think that guy's all that, Well, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I got a much better story to tell you. It

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Speaker 2: ain't just about boy boy fight. How about a dead body.

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Speaker 2: And we're not talking the movie where the kids are

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Speaker 2: trying to find that the kid. This is yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: not stand by me. This is a murder and it

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Speaker 2: happened at that house you just left. As a matter

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Speaker 2: of fact, there's a dead body in that house. It's

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Speaker 2: in the basement used to be the wine cellar. I think,

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Speaker 2: I mean, he lays it all out there for him Joe.

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Speaker 2: Now you've already pointed out that these are pretty impressive homes.

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Speaker 2: This type of a home is already a legendary home.

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Speaker 2: And police, you know, cops as much as I do,

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Speaker 2: probably better when you're getting a story from a guy

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Speaker 2: who's got a fell in a rap sheet, Yeah, do

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Speaker 2: you believe him or do you kind of go, yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's just trying to get out of his latest rap.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to believe probably about two thirds of what

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Speaker 1: they say, because yeah, and that's you always feel like

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Speaker 1: you're being leveraged for something else, right, because many times

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Speaker 1: guys that have been in the system, they know how

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Speaker 1: to work the system. And it all depends, it all

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Speaker 1: depends on uh, you know, if you think about the

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Speaker 1: spinning wheel of fate, it all depends on which officer

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Speaker 1: that arrow comes to rest on. And sometimes it comes

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Speaker 1: to rest on somebody that begins to believe the story,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to follow up, and when they do

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Speaker 1: follow up, they're not going to believe what they see. Drugs.

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Speaker 1: I think it goes without saying ruin everything, and it's

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Speaker 1: not just necessarily illicit drugs that are out there. Be

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Speaker 1: honest with you, there are certain things that are. I

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Speaker 1: don't want to mention any names that are illegal that

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Speaker 1: might not should be. But you know, you can have

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Speaker 1: even people that are addicted to prescription drugs that are

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Speaker 1: out there and it destroys lives. And in this case,

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Speaker 1: these individuals, Dave had developed such a hunger. And I

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Speaker 1: don't I don't necessarily think that our victim in this

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Speaker 1: case was the first supplier that they've ever had. I

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Speaker 1: think that he was probably a means to an end

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Speaker 1: and that there had been dabbling going on all the while.

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Speaker 1: But Dave, you've got to kind of lay us out

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Speaker 1: for me, because you know, if you're if you're a

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Speaker 1: police officer, you know, and you're hurt, you hear that

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Speaker 1: you have a body in the basement of the house

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Speaker 1: he just came from. How'd the body get there? Because

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Speaker 1: this guy's got to leave the story out. You got

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Speaker 1: me on the hook now, I want to hear it,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I'm thinking as a cop.

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Speaker 3: I was looking at it from the stand.

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Speaker 2: When I was going back over this, I was trying

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Speaker 2: to figure out at what point do police actually go.

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Speaker 3: He's giving too many details. We need to take this seriously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it happened pretty quick, because you've got

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Speaker 2: to realize that you have a situation of domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: You've got one guy in cuffs headed downtown and he's

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Speaker 2: offering up something that is a murder, and he's saying

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Speaker 2: that my partner is the one that did it, and

345
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Speaker 2: he's laying it out there and explaining everything that took place.

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Speaker 2: And this was where the three way comes into play.

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Speaker 2: You know, we mentioned the victim right off the bat

348
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Speaker 2: is a guy named Jamie Carroll. He is a hairstylist

349
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Speaker 2: who also dabbles in drug selling. Well, Jamie, Jeffrey Munt,

350
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Speaker 2: and Joey bain Is get together for a party at

351
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Speaker 2: Jeffrey's house and they are partying hard and they run

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Speaker 2: out of drugs and Jamie says, no worries, guys, I'll

353
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Speaker 2: go get some more drugs. And so while Jamie leaves

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Speaker 2: the party to go get the drugs, the meth they're

355
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 2: snorting myth. And most of us know that meth amphetamine

356
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Speaker 2: is one of these drugs that keeps you up for

357
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Speaker 2: days day, keep it for a long time, and depending

358
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Speaker 2: on the type and it is, it can do a

359
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:37,640
Speaker 2: lot of things. But they were using myth. Jamie goes

360
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Speaker 2: to get the meth while he's gone, Joey and Jeffrey,

361
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Speaker 2: now depending on who you listened to, came up with

362
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Speaker 2: a plan to let's kill j Let's kill Jamie when

363
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Speaker 2: it gets back. We'll take his drugs and his money.

364
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Speaker 1: Oh so this is pillow talk then, right, yeah?

365
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Speaker 3: Apparently yeah apparently so yeah.

366
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Speaker 1: So they're in the post codal bliss now at this

367
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Speaker 1: point in tom and they've run out of drugs because

368
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 1: you cannot continue on in this fueled passion. And so,

369
00:22:05,480 --> 00:22:09,680
Speaker 1: you know, I think about this, this guy, this kid

370
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Speaker 1: has come to town right just so that he can

371
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Speaker 1: kind of fit in. He's got a job cutting hair,

372
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Speaker 1: he can't make ends meet, and was you know, you

373
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Speaker 1: have to look back and think, was this even on

374
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Speaker 1: this kid's radar? You know, like that this could happen

375
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Speaker 1: to him. And it just goes from bad to worse

376
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Speaker 1: at this point in time, Dave, please get it.

377
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Speaker 3: It was. It was just as bad.

378
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Speaker 2: The biggest problem they had da being the police is

379
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Speaker 2: that they're being told a story by a convicted felon,

380
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 2: by Joey Bainis, and he tells them that when Jamie

381
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 2: comes back, that he said, Joey said, Joey tells police, well,

382
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Speaker 2: I was tired and I needed to take a break,

383
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 2: so I went into Now again, you're having a gay

384
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 2: sex party weekend. And Joey says, I'm tired, and he

385
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 2: goes into a different room where he watches pornography while

386
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:09,920
Speaker 2: the other two guys are still going at it, and

387
00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:14,480
Speaker 2: then he hears something bad happening there. He claims that

388
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:20,520
Speaker 2: Jeffrey Munt shot Jamie Carroll in the face, strangled him,

389
00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,199
Speaker 2: or beat him. I mean, any number of things going on.

390
00:23:24,160 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 3: And when.

391
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,800
Speaker 2: Joey is telling the police this, imagine what they're thinking,

392
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: Joe because you've got somebody who is saying, there is

393
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Speaker 2: a body stabbed and shot in this beautiful home and

394
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: we just left there and didn't see any bloody scins. Well,

395
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 2: this happened several months ago. It didn't just happen.

396
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: I think it was like seven months.

397
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 3: It was seven months earlier. Yes, And that's the whole point.

398
00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:58,760
Speaker 2: He's going, this happened months ago, and they're like, well,

399
00:23:58,760 --> 00:24:03,159
Speaker 2: where's the body. Then, well, we went downstairs and I

400
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:06,639
Speaker 2: helped him. Now I didn't help him kill him. Jeffrey

401
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 2: Munn did the killing, but I helped him. We went

402
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 2: into the store and got a fifty gallon tub, rubber

403
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 2: made tub yep, and we got back. We were going

404
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 2: to put him in the tub, dig a hole and

405
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 2: bury him, and we dug the hole. They dug the

406
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: whole five feet deep. Joe. Now, I don't know about you,

407
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,960
Speaker 2: but I have dug a few holes in my life,

408
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:32,960
Speaker 2: and I will tell you when you're dealing when you're

409
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: digging a hole by hand, when you start looking at

410
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,639
Speaker 2: two feet deep by hand, is tough. When they were

411
00:24:39,680 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 2: at the bottom of this beautiful old home, they were

412
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:44,600
Speaker 2: at bedrock man.

413
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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't let me interject here because I've had

414
00:24:47,520 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: like several cases, one in particular that stands out mind

415
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,680
Speaker 1: a by a guy that he beat his grandmother to

416
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 1: death who was living with his grandmother, and she lived

417
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: in an equally old ho home probably about this age.

418
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,359
Speaker 1: It was more of a craftsman style home. It wasn't

419
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,199
Speaker 1: like a Victorian mansion, but it had an external cellar

420
00:25:09,280 --> 00:25:13,800
Speaker 1: door where it was a It was a packed floor,

421
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:17,080
Speaker 1: but it wasn't It wasn't like a concrete base or anything.

422
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,119
Speaker 1: But you could walk in. You had headroom, is what

423
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 1: I'm saying. And the grandson in the case that I'm

424
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:27,639
Speaker 1: talking about right now ran into the same problem that

425
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 1: this pair ran into, and that is they're in because

426
00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: the grandson in my case, this was in Atlanta, did

427
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 1: a horrible job, all right, of trying to conceal it.

428
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: It was. It was ghastly and all those sorts of things.

429
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,960
Speaker 1: But when you're talking about digging that at that depth,

430
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:50,440
Speaker 1: they had to use pick axes. And you know, most

431
00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:52,040
Speaker 1: of time we think about, well, I'm going to go

432
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,400
Speaker 1: in the backyard and do some gardening. Perhaps, well I'm

433
00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,640
Speaker 1: going to take a shovel with me, and well, when

434
00:25:57,680 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: you go into the backyard, most of the time you're

435
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:05,080
Speaker 1: digging through a layer of sedtlement top soil, that sort

436
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:07,440
Speaker 1: of thing. It can you might think that it's a struggle,

437
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,920
Speaker 1: but it loosens up. You go down to a basement

438
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,120
Speaker 1: of a home that's over one hundred years old, okay,

439
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: and you try to stick a shovel in a packed

440
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,280
Speaker 1: clay floor. Because the one thing that we know about

441
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: old homes is that we've always heard the tie where

442
00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 1: they settle, and you'll hear them creaking and cracking and

443
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: all that sort of things. I guess it's one of

444
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:34,680
Speaker 1: the charms of an old house. I've had a couple

445
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,200
Speaker 1: of old houses. But it's also terrifying too. But as

446
00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:43,159
Speaker 1: it's settling quote unquote settling, it's going it's dropping. You know,

447
00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 1: the entire time and the entire environment around it is

448
00:26:46,440 --> 00:26:52,480
Speaker 1: either rising or it is shifting with the settling of

449
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: the home, depending upon how the house was originally constructed.

450
00:26:56,240 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: And that settled home in the basement, is that dirt

451
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,720
Speaker 1: down there is getting tighter and tighter and tighter. Just

452
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 1: imagine over one hundred years of this happening. It's almost

453
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,200
Speaker 1: like somebody turning a screw to where it's not sufficient

454
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 1: just to turn the screw to get something locked in

455
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: with it. You're going to go beneath the surface of

456
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: that you're screwing the screw into and it's going deeper

457
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: and deeper, and all of a sudden you realize, my god,

458
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:27,000
Speaker 1: this is going to take forever. Are we ever going

459
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,720
Speaker 1: to get through down to the bottom depths here? Well,

460
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: they finally did.

461
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,800
Speaker 3: Lots of men later. Yeah, there's the Jamie's math. Yeah.

462
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: Yeah. And you know the thing about it is they

463
00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,399
Speaker 1: took this poor poor man and he came back and

464
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: I'll use the term in good faith. He came back

465
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: in good faith. He's the supplier. Yeah, all right, the

466
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,480
Speaker 1: party going and he's got the money. And keep in mind,

467
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: money is really what he wanted, you know, you talked

468
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,920
Speaker 1: about that from the top, Dave. Money is what he wanted,

469
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: just to survive. And here it is that thing that

470
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 1: he had desired so much to get away from small

471
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,239
Speaker 1: town USA, to come to the big city. He may

472
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: have had his pockets full when he arrived back. He

473
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:33,160
Speaker 1: had to dope with him and for that he was butchered. Well, brother, debut. Now,

474
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,119
Speaker 1: let me get this straight. He didn't go down to

475
00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:38,080
Speaker 1: the funeral home, and by they didn't go down to

476
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: the funeral home and buy the I don't know, the

477
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:48,280
Speaker 1: super duper twenty thousand dollars lead lined titanium casket.

478
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:50,360
Speaker 3: They didn't do that.

479
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: They ran down the street to whoever it was, and yeah,

480
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:57,160
Speaker 1: and they picked up the rubber maid. Right. I think

481
00:28:57,680 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 1: there's nobody. I bet there's nobody within the sound of

482
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 1: a voice right now that can't identify with one of

483
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: these containers. My lord, My life is a series of

484
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: these ruber mad containers putting Christmas decorations in it, and

485
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:12,680
Speaker 1: baby pictures and school books and everything else and putting

486
00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: them out in the shit. Right, everybody can identify with this.

487
00:29:15,880 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: The problem is, unlike a coffin or casket, bodies generally

488
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: fit in those. In this particular case, that ain't what happened, Dave.

489
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 2: They're dealing with a couple of things, Joe. Because they're high.

490
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,200
Speaker 2: They've been up for a long time, so they're not

491
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 2: in their right mind anyway when they decide to go

492
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 2: and get this fifty gallon tub. But when they get back,

493
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,880
Speaker 2: now I'm a little I'm not sure exactly when they

494
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 2: dug the hole. I don't know that because they say

495
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: they went to the store and when By the time

496
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: they got back with the fifty gallon rubber made as

497
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 2: well as a rubber foam to seal it up with

498
00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:02,480
Speaker 2: that rigor mortis had set in. Yeah, and mortis, and

499
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,640
Speaker 2: they did not fit the body in the tub that way.

500
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 2: And in their best way of thinking, this super intelligent,

501
00:30:11,880 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 2: highly educated, overpaid Northwestern University cat and his convicted fellon boyfriend,

502
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 2: the best plan they could come up with to get

503
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:25,479
Speaker 2: this body into the rubber made tub was to use

504
00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:27,080
Speaker 2: a sledgehammer and break it up.

505
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 1: The country mouse that came to the city, right, Yeah,

506
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,040
Speaker 1: the breaking up Jamie. Yeah, here's the thing about it.

507
00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,760
Speaker 1: And let's talk about rigor riger however you want to

508
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: pronounce it, anything's okay with me. The thing about rigor

509
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: mortis is that once it sets in, you can manually

510
00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: break it. You don't have to use a sledgehammer to

511
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: do it. But if you're if you're not familiar with

512
00:30:57,360 --> 00:31:00,400
Speaker 1: the dead, a lot of people walk around out there

513
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 1: thinking that once rigidity sets in and the body it

514
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: is for there forever and ever. Amen, Listen, After about

515
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 1: thirty six hours, and a lot of it depends on

516
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: upon the environment, bodies start to become flaccid again. The

517
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 1: stiffness that lactic acid begins to dissipate, and suddenly the

518
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: body becomes flaccid once more. You can generally kind of

519
00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 1: fold the body up as best you can, but Dave,

520
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: they and even if you're in full rigidity, And I've

521
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,600
Speaker 1: had this happen because I've had to break Breake Rider

522
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 1: on the table before. And when I say break, don't

523
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: misconstrue that I'm not breaking something like, you know, taking

524
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 1: a sledgehammer and cracking the dead over their knees. That's

525
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: not what we do. It will set in in the arms,

526
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: it sets in the legs, the hips, the head, the neck.

527
00:31:55,960 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 1: So all it requires is manipulation. And you can actually

528
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: bend at the knee. Now, if you're going to try

529
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:08,040
Speaker 1: to put him into this this plastic container, that can

530
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: be accomplished without having to do something. I mean, look,

531
00:32:11,400 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 1: they've already gone down the road of being ghastly here.

532
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: I mean, let's just let's face it, all right, I guess,

533
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: look what more can we do. Let's get the sledgehammer,

534
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: you know, and and assault the dead the dead here,

535
00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: and that's what they chose to do. But you could

536
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:31,480
Speaker 1: easily manipulate a body just by manual manipulation. You can

537
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: work it out of the joints. And because just think

538
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,479
Speaker 1: about all of the bodies, think about this, I'll tell

539
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 1: you why we have to do in the more. If

540
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: you've got somebody that dies, say seated in a chair, okay,

541
00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: and their their arms are resting resting on the arm rest.

542
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,959
Speaker 1: All right, Let's say they've committed suicide and they die

543
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: in the chair, their arms on the on the on

544
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: the arm rest. Well, when we take them out of

545
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: that chair, guess what, when I was in the army.

546
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: They used to put us in what's called the dying

547
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: cockroach position. And what that meant as for punishment, we'd

548
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,600
Speaker 1: lay on our back, we'd have to hold our arms

549
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: up and our legs up. It looked like a dying cockroach.

550
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: You had to stay there in that position. It looks

551
00:33:12,640 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: like the dying cockroach position. If anybody's been in the military,

552
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,160
Speaker 1: you're familiar with that. So we would in the morgue.

553
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,000
Speaker 1: We would actually have to break riger in the shoulders

554
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:24,920
Speaker 1: and in the elbows, because if you didn't, when you

555
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: go to make the initial incision and in visperation of

556
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: the body, you're fighting with the dead person's arm because

557
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: they're in the way, so you want the arms at

558
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: their side. And yeah, it takes a little bit of work,

559
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 1: but to go to this degree which they did, adds

560
00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: another level of just a real disgusting situation, goes to

561
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: horrific at this point.

562
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,320
Speaker 2: To jump to the end here, they buried him in

563
00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 2: five feet deep. They were able to get in with

564
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,800
Speaker 2: the sledgehammer. They paun Jamie's body into this little fifty

565
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,720
Speaker 2: yelling rubber maid tub and they said the police said

566
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:07,160
Speaker 2: it was five feet down. These guys doug by hand

567
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: five feet deep in this basement, and then they covered

568
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 2: the body with lime I'm guessing inside the rubber maid thing. Yeah,

569
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 2: and buried it and it was there for seven months.

570
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,399
Speaker 2: Seven months go by, and that's when the domestic phone

571
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: call comes into nine one one, where Joey Bainis actually

572
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,879
Speaker 2: tells police there's a body in the basement and it

573
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 2: was right where he described it pretty much, and so

574
00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 2: they were able to dig it up.

575
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: But investigators actually referred to this Dave as let's see,

576
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 1: I saw one headline relative to this, how to screw

577
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 1: up a perfect murder. Yep, because if you just kept

578
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: your mouth shut, yep, no one probably would have been

579
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: the wiser at all. Who else is going to go

580
00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 1: into maybe the next homeowner, you know, whenever you pass on,

581
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:58,640
Speaker 1: you'd still have to do something in the body if

582
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 1: you sell it though, I'm sorry, go ahead, No.

583
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 2: Dude, he was just trying to get out of a

584
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: DV charge. Either that or because these guys were they

585
00:35:05,680 --> 00:35:07,880
Speaker 2: were a couple. That's the one thing I want to

586
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 2: be because I I was looking at this as a

587
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: little bit differently, kind of as a three way hookup,

588
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: just guys party in and got together. Even though Joey

589
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: Bainis and Jeffrey Munt hadn't been years long together. They'd

590
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:23,240
Speaker 2: met on a dating site and they were a couple.

591
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:26,360
Speaker 2: They invited their drug dealer friend to join the party.

592
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:30,800
Speaker 2: He was friends with Joey, so it was it really

593
00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,320
Speaker 2: was worse than what I thought to start with, if

594
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 2: you can be worse. But you know what, Joe, they

595
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 2: kill this guy for his drugs and his money and

596
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: bury his body in the basement. But then a month

597
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,280
Speaker 2: later they actually get arrested.

598
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 3: Again.

599
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,120
Speaker 2: You got a dead body in your basement and you

600
00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:54,439
Speaker 2: go to Chicago, stay in a really expensive hotel and

601
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:56,280
Speaker 2: they're trying to pass fake money.

602
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,959
Speaker 1: Yeah, this is oh my gosh, I completely forgot about

603
00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,440
Speaker 1: this element. I think it was month that was actually

604
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 1: involved in counterfeiting. Yeah, and.

605
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 3: I could I could talk all.

606
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:14,920
Speaker 1: Day about you know, uh, counterfeiting and that sort of thing.

607
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,560
Speaker 1: From a forensics perspective and as a death investigators, you know,

608
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 1: I've only had one case that involved somebody that was

609
00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:28,920
Speaker 1: involved in counterfeiting and it turned out to be like

610
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: one of the most renowned in the country. This guy

611
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:38,439
Speaker 1: did and he died in Atlanta in a walk up

612
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:41,280
Speaker 1: kind of. It's not really a flophouse he was renting.

613
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:45,680
Speaker 1: It was like a two room and the two room

614
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: didn't have a bath. You had a shared bath down

615
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: the hallway. But David I went he died in the bed.

616
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: It was a natural death. But David I went into

617
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,920
Speaker 1: his room and he had money hanging from clothesline or

618
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,680
Speaker 1: string in there, like it was drying. I'd never seen anything,

619
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,440
Speaker 1: you know, you see stuff like that in the movies,

620
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: and I'd never never thought about and it takes a

621
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,359
Speaker 1: certain level of skill. But they were they when they

622
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 1: were arrested, Dave and again, they were trying to pass

623
00:37:15,680 --> 00:37:21,600
Speaker 1: funny money to a merchant and they picked up on

624
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:24,400
Speaker 1: it immediately, you know, so I g you know, the

625
00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: quality was probably not that good. And I go back

626
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:31,919
Speaker 1: to mont with this. You know, you mentioned you would

627
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,880
Speaker 1: think that he would be giving his academic background and

628
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: his status at Northwestern, he would be a bit more

629
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 1: sophisticated than all of this, like he would rise above it.

630
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: But you know he's he's really loud, boisterous and oh,

631
00:37:47,200 --> 00:37:51,040
Speaker 1: by the way, yeah, he loves meth and he loves

632
00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: counterfeit money. You know. You know, look, we can go

633
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: on and on about this this kid that owned the

634
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 1: house and his run ins with the law, and you know,

635
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: he's you know, he's been on a dark path. But

636
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 1: the darkest path of all to me is Mont you know,

637
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 1: because it's it's just people that seem, in my experience

638
00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,240
Speaker 1: at least, to seem to have it all of course,

639
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,160
Speaker 1: and then when you kind of peel back those layers, Uh,

640
00:38:19,760 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: it's it's so incredibly dark. You wonder what else they've

641
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: been involved in in their life.

642
00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:25,600
Speaker 3: Buddy.

643
00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: Well, you know the reason I added that is that

644
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,760
Speaker 2: that was like four weeks after they killed Jamie Carroll

645
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 2: and buried him in the basement. They're together, party in

646
00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:36,440
Speaker 2: and they try to pass the fundy money and you

647
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,399
Speaker 2: know who tipped him off, the doorman, the guy at

648
00:38:39,440 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 2: the hotel. You know this, right, But when they do,

649
00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: when the cops show up, they have him. He's got months,

650
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,160
Speaker 2: got a gun and your gun. Now, at the time

651
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 2: they didn't know anything about the gun. But now that

652
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: they found a dead body in the basement, you've got

653
00:38:57,520 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 2: to tell me the condition Because the gun that Jeffrey

654
00:39:00,280 --> 00:39:03,000
Speaker 2: got caught with him and Joey, and that's the gun

655
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 2: that was used to shoot Jamie Carroll. But what kind

656
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: of condition after seven months is Jamie Carroll's body going

657
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,520
Speaker 2: to be in after being sealed up in a rubber

658
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,840
Speaker 2: made fifty gallon tub, buried five feet deep in the

659
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,200
Speaker 2: basement of a home in Chicago.

660
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 1: Imagine imagine Louisville, Chicago. Yeah, Louisville. Imagine the nastiest human

661
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: soup that you can imagine after that period of time.

662
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: So in the bottom of this tub, which by the way,

663
00:39:36,520 --> 00:39:41,560
Speaker 1: it's plastic, so it is going to be sweating internally, Okay,

664
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,279
Speaker 1: inside of this thing, it's it's got it's kind of

665
00:39:45,320 --> 00:39:48,279
Speaker 1: because as the body is breaking down, and again we've

666
00:39:48,280 --> 00:39:54,600
Speaker 1: talked about autolytic changes, which is auto meaning self, So

667
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:59,279
Speaker 1: it's like self digestion of the body a cellular level

668
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: that's going to leach out, and so as it leaches

669
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,319
Speaker 1: out through the cells, the body produces again the file

670
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 1: substance known a man, which is decomp fluid. Got a

671
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 1: great story about that sometimes we have another time to

672
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:14,640
Speaker 1: talk about that. It actually involves a good friend of

673
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: mine and his brand new pair of lace up a

674
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 1: white buck buck low first that he had. But that's

675
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: the story for another day. Stay tuned and that you're

676
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 1: you're not going to have necessarily the same insect activity. Now,

677
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:38,160
Speaker 1: trust me, five feet of earth is still going to

678
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: ring the dinner bell for flies. They're going to show up.

679
00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,279
Speaker 1: I'd like to know, for instance, let's just start at

680
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:45,919
Speaker 1: the top. I'd like to know if they had hung

681
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,960
Speaker 1: like pest trips in the basement, because flies are going

682
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 1: to show up even with that much distance between them.

683
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:56,879
Speaker 1: I've found that flies, if there is a way they're

684
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 1: going to they're going to find a way. I mean,

685
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,759
Speaker 1: just think about common house slaves. You think that your

686
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: house is all sealed up, maybe it's when you bring

687
00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: the grocers in from out of the car. They're going

688
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: to slip through your door. They're going to wind up

689
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 1: in the house with you. And there's even a type

690
00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: of fly that you find in caskets that come up

691
00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: as a result of us dysentering a body, and they're

692
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: called coffin flies, and they have the ability to burrow

693
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 1: down through the earth and get inside of a casket.

694
00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,080
Speaker 1: So you find those in a lot of caskets that

695
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,640
Speaker 1: are out there and in dwelling bodies. So it's just

696
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:37,319
Speaker 1: it's a natural thing that occurs. But back to the

697
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 1: soup inside of this plastic container. You're going to have

698
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: a You're going to have probably about an inch of

699
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: fluid just on the bottom. I'd say after seven months

700
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,480
Speaker 1: like this, the skin is going to be greatly softened.

701
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: It'll have kind of it won't have a pinked up

702
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 1: appearance to it. It will have begun to turn black

703
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 1: and green. You would have by seven months, you're going

704
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: to probably have protrusion, particularly at the joint areas. If

705
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: he's bent, you're going to have elements of the skeleton

706
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,799
Speaker 1: that are poking through at that point in time. And

707
00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:19,920
Speaker 1: since this is not a dry this is what's referred

708
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:24,480
Speaker 1: to as a as a wet t comp Since it's

709
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,759
Speaker 1: not dry like laying dow on the ground where you

710
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,279
Speaker 1: have exposure to sunlight, the skin is going to be

711
00:42:33,400 --> 00:42:35,840
Speaker 1: or the tissue rather, it's going to be very very spongy,

712
00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 1: like I've actually removed bodies at this far down the

713
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:44,400
Speaker 1: line and further and when you and even with a

714
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:46,399
Speaker 1: gloved hand, Dave, and this is one of the more

715
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: disgusting things I've ever had to do as a death investigating,

716
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 1: and it happened to me all the time. I think

717
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:52,399
Speaker 1: those things that you hate so much, they either stand

718
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: in your mind that happen to you with more frequency,

719
00:42:54,400 --> 00:42:56,200
Speaker 1: the more you dread them.

720
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:57,840
Speaker 3: Where you would grab.

721
00:42:57,600 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 1: A body and it was in such a state of decay,

722
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 1: the body doesn't pull apart, but your hands, your fingertips

723
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:06,480
Speaker 1: actually sink through the tissue as you're removing the body,

724
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,480
Speaker 1: and you can feel your fingertips going into the body

725
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,240
Speaker 1: to a certain depth. That's what they would have experienced.

726
00:43:13,239 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: But my thought is more than likely hopefully they did

727
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:22,920
Speaker 1: this when they were able to understand down in that basement,

728
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: which would have been a horrible area to have had

729
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: to have worked in if you were the corner investigator

730
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 1: or the emmy investigator. Certainly the crime scene people that

731
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: were down there, and of course the homeside detective once

732
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,080
Speaker 1: they saw this body in this contained plastic thing that

733
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,760
Speaker 1: they had purchased. I'm hoping they didn't take the body

734
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,919
Speaker 1: out of the container at the scene, and this would

735
00:43:47,920 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 1: have been a yeoman's task to get this thing up

736
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: out of the ground and then move it probably up

737
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:02,320
Speaker 1: a staircase. Imagine this and a think slashing around inside

738
00:44:02,320 --> 00:44:04,799
Speaker 1: of there, just slashing back and forth, and you can

739
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 1: hear it and the more you move out into the

740
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: open air. Guess who really does show up now, it's

741
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:13,239
Speaker 1: going to be the flies. And I don't care if

742
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 1: it's in the dead of winter, they're going to show

743
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: up and they're going to be lighting on you to

744
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:19,840
Speaker 1: get to that body. If you're still wearing the same gloves,

745
00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 1: you look down at your gloves and you've got flies

746
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:24,399
Speaker 1: all over your hands, it's because they smell it. It's

747
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: like ringing the dinner bell for them. But on the

748
00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:30,520
Speaker 1: other hand, if they kept the body inside of that

749
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:34,120
Speaker 1: container and they take it back to the morgue, I'm

750
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 1: a big I'm a big fan of X rays. If

751
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:40,400
Speaker 1: you can X ray that body in place, and this

752
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:43,760
Speaker 1: goes to the fact that got caught with this weapon,

753
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 1: if the projectile is still in the body. If you

754
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:52,800
Speaker 1: do X rays of the entire tub with the body

755
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,200
Speaker 1: still in place, and that lead core projectile is still

756
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: in the body, as decaying as the body might appear,

757
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: you can still see that radio opaque image of the

758
00:45:07,280 --> 00:45:13,520
Speaker 1: bullet within the body. And one of the interesting things

759
00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: that you see I've never talked about this. I'm going

760
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: to mention here one of the interesting things that you

761
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:23,759
Speaker 1: see on post warm X rays with decomposing bodies. Did

762
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:29,640
Speaker 1: you know that? Internally you begin to see these systems

763
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,239
Speaker 1: that are breaking down, and within the body itself you

764
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 1: can see the little gas pockets inside the body and

765
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: you have to do a double take at it because

766
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:41,160
Speaker 1: they're kind of outlined. You can kind of see an

767
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,839
Speaker 1: outline of them, and they like a normal X ray,

768
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: if you have a fresh dead it's going to look

769
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: pretty much like like someone's xtually that was taken in life.

770
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: But if you get a decomp and you X ray them,

771
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 1: the interior of the body is going to look completely

772
00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:00,759
Speaker 1: different than if you have the fresh deet that you're

773
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:03,760
Speaker 1: working with, or like a living patient. But the key

774
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:06,879
Speaker 1: is to try to locate that bullet or that projectile,

775
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 1: and hopefully they did and they have this weapon, and

776
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,640
Speaker 1: lo and behold, this idiot is still carrying the weapon.

777
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 1: So let me get this straight. You go to all

778
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,000
Speaker 1: this trouble to dig through packed clay with a pick

779
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:26,680
Speaker 1: axe and a shovel. You buy a container, you stuff

780
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,319
Speaker 1: him in it, you dig it five feet deep by

781
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: the way, you stick him into the bottom of it,

782
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 1: and then you cover the thing up and now you're

783
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,360
Speaker 1: going to run buck wild up in Chicago passing funny money.

784
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, carrying the same weapon that

785
00:46:45,400 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 1: you murdered a guy with. Yeah, I don't know. I

786
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,400
Speaker 1: don't know really what they're hiring practices are at Northwestern.

787
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: I got questions, I got questions. I'd like to know.

788
00:46:56,840 --> 00:46:58,839
Speaker 1: I'd like to know, you know, what is it that

789
00:46:58,920 --> 00:47:02,359
Speaker 1: was so special about this guy? But Dave, I just

790
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: I think that everyone would like to know what actually

791
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: became of these two desperadoes.

792
00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: Well, as I mentioned earlier, you know, Joey Banis had

793
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 2: a track record of convictions. He is the one whose

794
00:47:15,719 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 2: dad was a surgeon, grew up in a very privileged lifestyle.

795
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:21,960
Speaker 2: Actually had owned a couple of clubs in downtown Louisville,

796
00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: but he also had a drug problem and he'd been

797
00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: in a jail because of it. So when Joey Banis

798
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:32,080
Speaker 2: and Jeffrey Munt basically tell the same story about the

799
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 2: murder of Jamie Carroll, but they both change who did it.

800
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:39,759
Speaker 2: When you hear Joey Jeffrey is the one I was

801
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:41,960
Speaker 2: in the room watching, gave porn while they were in there,

802
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: and Jeffrey killed him. Meanwhile, when Jeffrey tells the story

803
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,840
Speaker 2: it's Joey who did the killing. But they both admitted

804
00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 2: to putting him in the fifty gallon tub and getting

805
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:52,719
Speaker 2: rid of the body, digging the hole and all that.

806
00:47:53,120 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 2: So it comes down to a trial. Joey went to

807
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:00,800
Speaker 2: trial first, and to keep the death penal off the table.

808
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 2: And pay attention to this because this is something that's

809
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:05,439
Speaker 2: going to be going on with Coburger. Okay, okay, right

810
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 2: now they're trying ways to keep the death penal, get

811
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:09,960
Speaker 2: the death penalty off the table in his case. Well,

812
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 2: here's what Joey Bainis did to get the death penalty off.

813
00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: He agreed that he would testify against Jeffrey Mount in

814
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 2: Jeffrey's trial. Now, Joey's trial was coming first, and so

815
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 2: he's saying I didn't do it. He did it, and

816
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:31,759
Speaker 2: I after I'm I will testify. And by the way,

817
00:48:31,880 --> 00:48:34,279
Speaker 2: I will not take the death penalty off the table.

818
00:48:34,320 --> 00:48:37,719
Speaker 2: And I will what was oh, I will not challenge.

819
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 2: I will not appeal any conviction if it happens. Okay,

820
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 2: you got me. I will not appeal if I'm convicted. Well,

821
00:48:45,360 --> 00:48:49,680
Speaker 2: Joey Banis was convicted and he did testify at the

822
00:48:49,719 --> 00:48:53,600
Speaker 2: trial of Jeffrey Mount. Several months later, Well, Jeffrey Mount,

823
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: remember Joey Bainis convicted fellon with a lot of drug

824
00:48:56,440 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 2: pro and here's Jeffrey Mont. He's a gay guy who

825
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 2: likes to party. He had told everybody that no big

826
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 2: surprise here, but I'm not a killer. I own this

827
00:49:06,040 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: beautiful home. He's the bad guy, right, and the jury

828
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,960
Speaker 2: bought it. So Jeffrey Munt actually was not judge not guilty.

829
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,880
Speaker 2: He was acquitted of the murder charge. But Jeffrey Munt

830
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 2: was convicted of bearing getting rid of the corpse, of

831
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:26,920
Speaker 2: being involved with that, so Jeffrey Munt acquitted a murder.

832
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:31,520
Speaker 2: Joey bain Is convicted of murder. Jeffreymont was sentenced to

833
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,440
Speaker 2: eight years in prison for what he did with the

834
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,279
Speaker 2: body of Jamie Carroll, but because he had spent time

835
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:40,080
Speaker 2: in jail leading up to the actual trial taking place

836
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 2: the day he was convicted and sent or the day

837
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 2: that he was sentenced, he was eligible for parole, so

838
00:49:47,560 --> 00:49:50,600
Speaker 2: he was pretty much released within a matter of no time.

839
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 2: Joey Bainis convicted remains in prison for the rest of

840
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 2: his life, even though he did try to appeal the decision.

841
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 2: By the way, and that didn't work. He's still in jail,

842
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:00,600
Speaker 2: so they have.

843
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 3: It Joe Wow.

844
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, gee, thanks to my wife for

845
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:08,880
Speaker 1: putting this on the oh my lord. Yeah. And you

846
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:11,840
Speaker 1: know the other thing is is she uh again she

847
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:14,279
Speaker 1: you know, she was thinking back all those years that,

848
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:17,000
Speaker 1: all those years ago when I had that drug field

849
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: uh case that I worked in Atlanta where they got

850
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:22,520
Speaker 1: jumped through the playglass wind and it also, I think

851
00:50:22,560 --> 00:50:25,760
Speaker 1: because of the old home, it doesn't this case doesn't

852
00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,600
Speaker 1: necessarily have the same Southern charm to it, but it

853
00:50:28,920 --> 00:50:32,120
Speaker 1: reminded her of Midnight in the Garden of Evil as well,

854
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: you know where you've got this fine home. Uh, that's

855
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,840
Speaker 1: a real prize. And so that was one of the

856
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:40,239
Speaker 1: things that she that drew drew her eye to this.

857
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: So she was quite fascinated by it. But this case

858
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:51,160
Speaker 1: in and of itself is something that is truly a tragedy. Uh.

859
00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 1: This young man had left, uh left a life that

860
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,480
Speaker 1: you know, one one level, I'm sure that he found

861
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: quite boring, that it wasn't everything that he thought that

862
00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 1: it could be. But unfortunately, in the end, what he

863
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:12,520
Speaker 1: wound up with was a complete and total horror show.

864
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,520
Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybacks.