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Speaker 1: My name is Eva Longoria and I am Mate Remezracon

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Speaker 1: and welcome to Hungry for History, a podcast that explores

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Speaker 1: our past and present through food.

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Speaker 2: On every episode, we'll talk about the history of some

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Speaker 2: of our favorite dishes, ingredients, and beverages from our culture.

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Speaker 1: So make yourself at home.

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Speaker 2: I wen Broche Part three, Part three of our three part.

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Speaker 1: Series The Mexican Revolution. And you know, I love food

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Speaker 1: because it tells you so much about history, and our

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Speaker 1: last two episodes did just that. Mike and I are

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Speaker 1: history geeks and foodies, so we combined the two together.

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Speaker 2: We are the perfect match for this. And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: I'm so excited to talk about the Mexican Revolution today.

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Speaker 1: Because Miva MEXI call Meva Meal almost Mechi.

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Speaker 2: Mexicans, and I love that we'll explore it through the

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Speaker 2: lens of social history with a focus on, of course food.

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Speaker 1: I know a lot about the Mexican Revolution historically, I

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Speaker 1: don't know about the food impact, so this is exciting

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Speaker 1: for me.

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Speaker 2: The food impact is really kind of extraordinary. But just

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Speaker 2: to backtrack a little bit, so the Mexican Revolution happened

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Speaker 2: over a century after the French and American ones, right

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Speaker 2: the Mexican independence was in eighteen ten. The revolution started

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Speaker 2: in nineteen ten, but they were both a part of

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Speaker 2: this larger global legacy of the French Revolution.

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Speaker 1: If you can state again about Mexican independent the difference

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Speaker 1: between Mexican independence and the revolution, because I actually always

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Speaker 1: get it confused because it's eighteen ten, nineteen ten.

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Speaker 2: So Mexican independence was a war of independence, and this

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Speaker 2: was when Mexico, Mexican became independent from Spain. This happened

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Speaker 2: right around the time of the French and American revolutions.

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Speaker 2: So the Mexican Revolution was an internal revolt that was

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Speaker 2: caused or that was shaped because of centuries of colonial oppression. Basically,

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Speaker 2: so this happened in nineteen ten, so one hundred years

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Speaker 2: after the others.

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Speaker 1: I have a question why if Mexican independence from Spain

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Speaker 1: happened in eighteen ten, which was the same time as

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Speaker 1: all the revolution, American Revolution, the French Revolution, why didn't

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Speaker 1: they call it the Mexican revolution back then? Because it

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Speaker 1: was against colonialism, and it.

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Speaker 2: Was against colonialism, but usually you know, revolutions are more internal.

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Speaker 1: Eighteen ten was against the colonialism, nineteen ten was against

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Speaker 1: a dictator, right.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, so yeah, eighteen ten was a separation from

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Speaker 2: Spain to become independent from Spain, right, and then those

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Speaker 2: one hundred years between the War of Independence from Spain

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Speaker 2: and the Revolution, the Mexican Revolution, it was one hundred

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Speaker 2: years of instability and oppression and just really a lack

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Speaker 2: of consistent leadership. It was just all really kind of

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Speaker 2: a mess, and that led to the revolution. And ultimately

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Speaker 2: it was because of Porfdio Das. He was a misthiso

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Speaker 2: from Waga. He was a Francophile. He served as president

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Speaker 2: of Mexico for over three decades. Basically he was a

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Speaker 2: dictator and his long rule was known as the Portfitiato.

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Speaker 2: And so that was sort of like the straw that

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Speaker 2: broke the camel's back on these just hundred years of

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Speaker 2: colonial oppression.

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Speaker 1: So is a Francophile somebody obsessed with France. Yes, he

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Speaker 1: was upsessed with France. But the revolution was against him.

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Speaker 2: The revolution was against everything that he stood for and

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Speaker 2: everything that his regime his regime exactly because I used.

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Speaker 1: To get them confused. I used to think, you know,

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Speaker 1: because all the revolutions happened at a similar time, even

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Speaker 1: eighteen ten, that Mexican independence was a bit of a

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Speaker 1: revolution because it was against colonialism. It was against you know,

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Speaker 1: Spain having control over them from so far away, much

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Speaker 1: like the American Revolution of like, dude, you're not even here,

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Speaker 1: why are you telling me what to do? People think

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Speaker 1: that single DeMaio is our Mexican Fourth of July, and

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Speaker 1: I am constantly correcting people. It is not.

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Speaker 2: It is absolutely not. It was a battle of Bueerblain

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Speaker 2: and he Parfdias was a hero of this battle, and

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Speaker 2: that's what kind of put him on the map essentially.

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Speaker 1: Once he was like this hero of this Battle of Puebla,

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Speaker 1: which was by the way, against France. Mexico beat the

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Speaker 1: French in Puebla. He remained in power for decades, but

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Speaker 1: he used like re elections and he changed the constitution

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Speaker 1: to stay in power. So he's celebrated by a lot

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Speaker 1: of people because he brought a lot of economic growth

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Speaker 1: to Mexico. But he was definitely a dictator. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he had a lot of inequality, which then led to

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Speaker 1: the revolution, which was a nineteen ten correct.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely started in nineteen ten. But like you said,

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Speaker 2: he is celebrated by a lot of people because he

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Speaker 2: brought a lot of modernization, like railroads and industries, and

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Speaker 2: this European style architecture, like especially in the big cities.

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Speaker 2: If you go to Mexico City, these buildings like the

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Speaker 2: Mayasata is a fine arts palace. It's this gorgeous, you

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Speaker 2: know building, and you know, Juanajuato has the theater. Like

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Speaker 2: there's just so much European style architecture that he brought,

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Speaker 2: so you know, this is why he's celebrated by a

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Speaker 2: lot of people. But of course with all of this

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Speaker 2: European style architecture, brought European style food. So let's talk

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Speaker 2: about food and dining during the Buffadeto.

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Speaker 1: Like the other revolutions, food and dining really reflected the

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Speaker 1: deep economic divide, right, like the way French cuisine became

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Speaker 1: a symbol of sophistication and was like embraced by upper class,

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Speaker 1: I think the elites in Mexico also, you know, copied

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Speaker 1: this kind of symbol of sophistication right with the upper class.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And there were all of these specialty shops

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Speaker 2: in Mexico City that sold gourmet petats and imported wine

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Speaker 2: and brandies. And his whole thing was this europeanization of

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Speaker 2: food culture in Mexico was part of the s's vision

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Speaker 2: of Mexico as a quote unquote civilized nation, and so

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Speaker 2: this of course only reinforced these class and racial hierarchies.

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Speaker 1: He also really it was this is what I find

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Speaker 1: interesting is he was Wahaka and he rejected like he

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Speaker 1: was indigenous himself. Right, he was a mesthy so he

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Speaker 1: was dark, but yeah, he rejected indigenous traditions and he

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Speaker 1: you know, he viewed Maisa as a symbol of oppression,

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Speaker 1: and he promoted all of this European culture almost like

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Speaker 1: it feels self hating to me.

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Speaker 2: I know, it's so weird. And he saw corn as

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Speaker 2: a symbol of oppression. But everybody's eating coffilla's in their house.

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Speaker 1: There's well, there's a whole thing about the haciendas, right,

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Speaker 1: and this was a big part of the revolution, was

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Speaker 1: the way hausciendas were run and how you know, people

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Speaker 1: were indebted as servants who worked on the husciendas, Like

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Speaker 1: it was a whole cast system in Mexico. And then

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Speaker 1: the haciendas began producing cash crops like sugar and coffee

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Speaker 1: and cotton to export to the US into Europe. And

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Speaker 1: these these cash crops ended up replacing food crops like

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Speaker 1: beans and corn, and so that made less available for

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Speaker 1: the locals, So the food prices went up, but also

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Speaker 1: malnutrition and food insecurity worsened because of this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And of course foreign companies and local elites

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Speaker 2: were getting really rich while most Mexicans were poor and hungry.

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Speaker 2: And we learned, of course from the French Revolution, that

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Speaker 2: when people are hungry, they will revolt. He ran his

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Speaker 2: rule by the phrase ban so reflecting this idea of

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Speaker 2: obey and you will be rewarded. Disobey and you will

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Speaker 2: be punished.

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Speaker 1: Right, obey and you'll get bread, or disobey and you'll

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Speaker 1: get the stick. Is really how it literally translates not

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Speaker 1: a good strategy that he was operating or not a

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Speaker 1: good strategy, and how he asserted his dominance and enslaved people,

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Speaker 1: because then that's really how they became rebellious.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and he famously said after you know Mattelos and Galliente,

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Speaker 2: so kill them, like do it fast or do it

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Speaker 2: with passion, like about rebels and Veracruz, who he wanted

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Speaker 2: who wanted to overthrow him in eighteen seventy nine. So

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Speaker 2: I know, it's crazy to seeing these like these parallels

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Speaker 2: of bano palo today in different ways.

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Speaker 1: Well, I feel like we're going through a bano polo

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Speaker 1: strategy today. You know, in in certain parts of the world,

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it's bano pallo right now, and it's

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Speaker 1: so disheartening and also surprising that we're back to kind

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Speaker 1: of this not only rhetoric, but like this style of leadership.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, it's like, if you cooperate, you're enriched,

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Speaker 2: If you resist, you're silenced or imprisoned.

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Speaker 1: Or killed exactly.

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Speaker 2: Just it's awful. I always think, you know, when you

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Speaker 2: look back at history, if I were that person, like,

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Speaker 2: I would be out there fighting, and I want to

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Speaker 2: think that my family was out there. My maternal great

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Speaker 2: grandfather was actually Porfidio the S's dentist, and he was

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Speaker 2: the founder of the Dental Society in Mexico. And in

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Speaker 2: nineteen hundred the s sent my great grandfather to the

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Speaker 2: Paris Exposition and there's this newspaper clipping about it. He

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Speaker 2: was part of all of these banquets. And his wife,

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Speaker 2: my great grandmother, she was French Basque and she had

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Speaker 2: her closed ship from France. So you think, oh, yes,

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Speaker 2: my my descendants are revolutionaries. Maybe maybe not mine, maybe

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Speaker 2: not on that side of that of the family.

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Speaker 1: There's so many similarities with what was happening in France

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Speaker 1: before the French Revolution, but that most Mexicans continue to

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Speaker 1: eat traditional and misdiso based diets because it's it's what

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Speaker 1: their indigenous servants prepare. They prepared tomales, atoles, guisabos. So

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Speaker 1: this is why our food was never lost, because everybody

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Speaker 1: continued to eat the diet that they always knew. But

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Speaker 1: let's talk about sold as. Who or were they and

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Speaker 1: why were they so important? I've read many books about them.

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Speaker 2: Oh, my gods, were so badass. I mean, they were

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Speaker 2: the og chingo nats, right, they were just so bad ass.

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Speaker 2: So these were these women that traveled with revolutionary armies

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Speaker 2: and they really played an essential role on and off

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Speaker 2: the battlefield. Some of them were soldiers. Some of them

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Speaker 2: fought alongside soldiers and those were called adelitas. And some

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Speaker 2: of them, you know, were wives, mothers, widows, rebels like.

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Speaker 2: Some of them were serving as cooks and nurses and caretakers,

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Speaker 2: ensuring that soldiers were fed and informed. And they sometimes

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Speaker 2: they carried messages, they gathered intelligence. They used the fact

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Speaker 2: that there were women, and they wouldn't attract suspicion, and

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Speaker 2: so they kind of moved around and were serving, you know,

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Speaker 2: serving the soldiers with intelligence. But their food, their cooking

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Speaker 2: was central to their work and to their legacy. I

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Speaker 2: mean they fed entire armies. They cooked over open flames,

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Speaker 2: they foraged, they treated ingredients so by doing, and they

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Speaker 2: were traveling around the country, so they preserved and shared

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Speaker 2: regional recipes and they really laid the groundwork for a

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Speaker 2: more unified Mexican national quill.

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Speaker 1: They because they were like making wahaka and mullis and

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Speaker 1: Yucatan skocinita and Veracruz's seafood, which is pretty amazing in

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Speaker 1: this era. To unify a nation by the diversity of food.

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Speaker 1: How crazy is that?

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Speaker 2: It is? Totally and foods like the malees and bortolain

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Speaker 2: that was they became symbols of national pride and tortillas emerged.

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Speaker 2: It's these emblems of patriotism and resilience and cultural continuity.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't like theas and the portfidiata were saying that

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Speaker 2: it was oppression. No, this is who we are and

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Speaker 2: they are always women, right, they are ensuring that these

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Speaker 2: traditions remain alive, and they are taking things like Juahaca

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Speaker 2: mole to different parts of the country. So they're beginning

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Speaker 2: to unify the country through food.

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Speaker 1: And using food as symbols of strength and resilience and patriotism.

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Speaker 1: I think it's beautiful.

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Speaker 2: It is, It is so beautiful with the soleted As

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Speaker 2: are doing this, and you know, after the revolution, Mexico

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Speaker 2: is still trying to figure out what their identity was.

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Speaker 2: So they were, you know, they were indigenous Mexico. They

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Speaker 2: were the hundreds of years of colonies and they were

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Speaker 2: all of it, right, So they're trying to build a

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Speaker 2: national identity, and food became a way to bring the

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Speaker 2: country together. The food that the Soleas prepared and the

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Speaker 2: techniques that they used influenced cookbooks of the period. So

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Speaker 2: of course I'm obsessed with cookbooks, so I just want

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Speaker 2: to mention a couple of them.

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Speaker 1: They're so gay.

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Speaker 2: So there's one called moern Ross Cocina Mexican. It's nineteen

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Speaker 2: twenty nine modern recipe for Mexican cooking by a woman

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Speaker 2: named Maria Juarola des Salcea, and she starts the book

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Speaker 2: saying that Mexican food might be less substantial. The Spanish

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Speaker 2: food is non as complicated or elegant as French food,

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Speaker 2: but it is more diverse than any other and should

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Speaker 2: be an element of pride. And so there's another one.

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Speaker 2: Anna Marier Nandez, she was a teacher, a writer, and activist.

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Speaker 2: She published a book in nineteen thirty four called Comejo

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Speaker 2: lament the Lobrero Campesino, like how to Better the food

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Speaker 2: of the of the of the worker and the Farmer.

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Speaker 2: And she dedicated the book to then President elect las Aarrgarvanez,

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Speaker 2: and he calls him a socialist and great friend of

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Speaker 2: revolutionary women. She writes that there's no Mexican woman that

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Speaker 2: does not show pride in making it the fanciest woman

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Speaker 2: in the capitol and the humblest table and so. And

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Speaker 2: she has recipes for anchilas and tamalez, and then she

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Speaker 2: has recipes for chicken with hollandaise saws and volovont gosh.

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Speaker 2: So it's all of these. It demonstrates the layers of

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Speaker 2: Mexican cuisine. And through these layers of cuisine we could

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Speaker 2: see the layers of history.

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Speaker 1: You know, a lot of people don't know how the

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Speaker 1: revolution ended, and you know, eventually Granza emerged as a

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Speaker 1: leader and they drafted the Mexican Constitution of nineteen seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and it was the first constitution in the world to

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Speaker 1: include social rights. Like that was it blows me away

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Speaker 1: how progressive Mexico was in this in this moment. They

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Speaker 1: had land reform, they had labor rights, they had education

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Speaker 1: rights guaranteed free secular public education. They removed religion from

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Speaker 1: public education. They had cultural and national rights protections for

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Speaker 1: marginalized communities. They recognized the right to cultural identity by

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Speaker 1: limiting the power of foreign entities. Like these social rights

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Speaker 1: were so revolutionary at the time, and they influenced future

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Speaker 1: constitutions and labor laws in Latin America and beyond. And

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Speaker 1: so not all was enforced, but they really set a

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Speaker 1: powerful legal framework for reform and justice in a post

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Speaker 1: revolutionary Mexico. So the you know, the fight for rights

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Speaker 1: always continues, Like I remember people talking about Roby Wade

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Speaker 1: about that, Like, you know, the fight to keep our

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Speaker 1: rights is almost as hard as the fight to get

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Speaker 1: to receive and get those rights.

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Speaker 2: But the framework is there. I mean these labor rights,

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Speaker 2: but some of them they established protections for workers, including

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Speaker 2: eight hour work days, one day of rest per week,

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Speaker 2: the right to strike, the word to unionize, a minimum weight,

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Speaker 2: equal pay for work, protections for women and children, including maternity.

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Speaker 1: Eternity leave. We don't today, I know this.

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Speaker 2: Is nineteen seventy prohibition of child labor, safe working conditions.

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Speaker 1: It's like, what was the what was the impact of

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Speaker 1: the revolution, do you think? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So this struggle right so, and the way the country

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Speaker 2: embarked on this bold project of reinvention. Right, the struggle

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Speaker 2: for land and justice and equality reshaped the social landscape,

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Speaker 2: but sparked this search for a new national identity rooted

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Speaker 2: in its own people. And this idea became known as Mexikania.

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Speaker 2: It's like, okay, who are we?

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Speaker 1: Were?

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Speaker 2: This?

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Speaker 1: Were that?

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Speaker 2: Or everything? So this concept of okay, rather than looking

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Speaker 2: to Europe for inspiration, these post revolutionary leaders and artists

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Speaker 2: and intellectuals, they turned in words and they celebrated the

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Speaker 2: indigenous and Mestizo heritage and rejected this colonial legacy of elitism.

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Speaker 2: And so we see this in murals, right, like they

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Speaker 2: got to bed and cicatos and all of these. We

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Speaker 2: see them in murals and dance and in cinema and

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Speaker 2: clothing and dress. You know, and of course you had.

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Speaker 1: Food if of course food, but it feels like the

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Speaker 1: revolution the biggest impact that it had on people was

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Speaker 1: a cultural renaissance, you know, like it was this like

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Speaker 1: identity more than you know, we're now we have you know,

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Speaker 1: a better legal structure or anything like that. Like they

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Speaker 1: were like, this is who we want to be and

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Speaker 1: it is definitely nothing of colonialism.

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Speaker 2: They called it the Mexican Renaissance. There was a really

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Speaker 2: influential figure at this time, Josevasconcelos. He was Mexico's first

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Speaker 2: Secretary of Public Education, and he launched campaigns to promote

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Speaker 2: literacy and support public art and published works that celebrated

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Speaker 2: indigenous traditions. You know, we have the artists Deriveda and

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Speaker 2: all of them. You're doing public murals that glorified Mexico's

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Speaker 2: indigenous past and revolutionary war, you know, heroes and working

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Speaker 2: class struggles and cinema, the rise the golden age of cinema,

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Speaker 2: Maria Felix and all of these great actors of this

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Speaker 2: golden age, and they began to popularize symbols like the

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Speaker 2: charro and the China polana, and they turned these into

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Speaker 2: icons of national pride.

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Speaker 1: And because our food and the diet was so preserved

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Speaker 1: throughout this entire time. I mean from the conquest, by

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Speaker 1: the way, from the fifteen hundreds up until now we're

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Speaker 1: in the post revolutionary era. Food became central to this

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Speaker 1: cultural revival, and it's recognized today by UNESCO as having deep,

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Speaker 1: deep roots historically, you know, native ingredients, traditional cooking, and

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Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, the soldadera has emerged as

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Speaker 1: you know, these guardians of the culinary and cultural knowledge.

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Speaker 1: And I find that to be to be beautiful.

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Speaker 2: And if we look at some of that imagery from

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Speaker 2: a modern perspective, not the food, but the charro, the

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Speaker 2: sharp dressed horsemen in an embroidered suit, and the chinapaulana,

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Speaker 2: the woman in a beaded blouse and flowing skirt. They're

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Speaker 2: really beautiful and instantly recognizable, but they come from very

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Speaker 2: specific regions and histories, and over the last century have

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Speaker 2: been presented as one true face of the nation, really

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Speaker 2: sidelining or erasing hundreds of other cultures and styles. So

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Speaker 2: they also lack men and women in to these old

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Speaker 2: school roles as like the macho protector and the demure

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Speaker 2: decorative beauty. So it's heritage, yes, but it's also a

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Speaker 2: very curated snapshot of what it means to be Mexican,

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Speaker 2: and so yeah, through art, education, film, and food, this

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Speaker 2: post revolutionary era defined or redefined what it meant to

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Speaker 2: be Mexican and Mixikani. Dad was a cultural revolution, I mean,

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Speaker 2: and this is the image of Mexico, the flavor of

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Speaker 2: Mexico that was also just transported to the world.

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Speaker 1: To sum it up as a Mexican Revolution was one

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Speaker 1: of the most significant political upheavals in Latin American history.

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Speaker 1: I mean, so many other countries obviously have their run

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Speaker 1: ins with dictators still by the way to this day,

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Speaker 1: but this civil war is what transformed Mexico's society, government,

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Speaker 1: land ownership, or national identity, and it involved peasants to workers,

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Speaker 1: to intellectuals, to landowners, to indigenous communities, and each with

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Speaker 1: different goals. You know, some wanted a new democracy, some

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Speaker 1: wanted land reform, some people wanted labor rights. And I

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Speaker 1: think a lot of good came out of the Mexican Revolution,

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Speaker 1: including most importantly safeguarding the cuisine.

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Speaker 2: And I really think it's so interesting that we talked

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Speaker 2: about the Enlightenment, the Age of Enlightenment last time. These

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Speaker 2: thinkers leaders that of the revolution. They were still following

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Speaker 2: those ideals from one hundred years prior, so, these ideas

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Speaker 2: of we could do better, we could do better, and

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Speaker 2: we could still do better. Right, but Viva Mexico.

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Speaker 1: Miva Mexico, Iviva latilla. I'm glad they did it. I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that was not lost.

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Speaker 2: Never, it will never be lost.

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Speaker 1: It will never be lost, never be lost. Well, I

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Speaker 1: hope you guys enjoyed our three part series French Revolution,

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Speaker 1: Revolution and the Mexican Revolution. Be sure to subscribe to

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Speaker 1: our show and we'll see you next week.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for listening.

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Speaker 1: Hungary for History is a hyphen It Media production in

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Speaker 1: partnership with Iheart'smichael Tura podcast network.

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Speaker 2: For more of your favorite shows, visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 2: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.