1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:04,000 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Tutor Dixon Podcast in the Clay 2 00:00:04,040 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: and Book podcast Network. Welcome to the Tutor Dixon Podcast. 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: I'm Tutor Dixon, and I'm so happy to have you 4 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: joining me. My guest today is a genius when it 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: comes to dissecting the message and helping people understand what 6 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,600 Speaker 1: opportunities are available to them and how those same opportunities 7 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: may be threatened by progressive ideology. When we first met, 8 00:00:27,080 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: I had one of those moments where I thought, I 9 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,080 Speaker 1: this guy knows so many things. I just want to 10 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: dissect his brain and learn everything I can. And so 11 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: that's what I want to do today. And since then 12 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: you probably have all gotten to know him a little bit. 13 00:00:41,120 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: Vivek Ramaswami has announced his run for President of the 14 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: United States, and you've likely had the pleasure of hearing 15 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: some of the stories of his ideas. But today we're 16 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: going to dig deep into those ideas. Vivek is the 17 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 1: author of two books, Woke Inc. Inside Corporate America's Social 18 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:01,880 Speaker 1: Justice Scam and Nation of Victim's Identity Politics, The Death 19 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: of Merit and the Path Back to Excellence, very controversial topics. 20 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: Right now, the progressive media is attacking conservatives using the 21 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: word woke, claiming they can't define it. And since we 22 00:01:12,720 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 1: have the nation's expert right here, I want him to 23 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,279 Speaker 1: help us define it. Republican presidential candidate Ramaswami Vivek, Welcome 24 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:23,560 Speaker 1: to the podcast. Good to talk to you, dude. It's 25 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: a too flattering of an introduction, but thank you for that. 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 1: I appreciate it. Well, no, it's really true because when 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: I was running for governor, I met you and you 28 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: were talking to me about messaging and how to talk 29 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 1: about these things, and they really are hard to talk about. 30 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 1: And so you know that the progressive media attacks anybody 31 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 1: that talks about woke, But you've looked at it from 32 00:01:44,000 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: a different angle, and so I want your perspective, especially 33 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 1: as someone who is a part of the minority community. 34 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: But oftentimes folks that are in the minority community that 35 00:01:54,760 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 1: are Indian are not seen as somebody that is necessarily discriminated. 36 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:02,760 Speaker 1: But you say, you know, you look different than other 37 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: folks when you were growing up, and your dad said, 38 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 1: take advantage of that, and you certainly have, so tell 39 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 1: us woke from your perspective. Yeah, I mean, I think 40 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 1: it's important that we got to define something before we 41 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 1: tear it down. So let's actually define it in neutral terms, 42 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 1: and then we'll get to criticizing it, you know, shortly thereafter. 43 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: Being woke, even amongst its proponents, refers to waking up 44 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 1: to invisible societal injustices, generally based on genetically inherited characteristics 45 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: like race, gender, sexual orientation, and then acting to correct 46 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 1: those injustices, be it through the market or any other 47 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: means whatever it takes to close those injustices. That's what 48 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:45,680 Speaker 1: proponents of this new secular cult would say. But it 49 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:48,600 Speaker 1: has a religiosity about it which says that we have 50 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: to use any means necessary. And so I've got two 51 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: issues with it. One is it's inherently divisive because it 52 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: causes us to see one another on the basis of 53 00:02:56,080 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 1: our genetically inherited attributes, forgetting the few things that actually 54 00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,800 Speaker 1: bind us together across our different shades of melanin. I mean, 55 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:04,679 Speaker 1: tudor you and I are two different genders. We have 56 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,600 Speaker 1: two different shades of melanin. So what to me, it's 57 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: meaningless if there's nothing greater that actually binds us together 58 00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 1: across those differences. So that's my first issue with it, 59 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: and the second issue is that workness doesn't believe in 60 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 1: just using politics as a solution. It actually believes in 61 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: settling disagreements, not through free speech and open debate in 62 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 1: the political process, but actually through other means, including through 63 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: the market, including through the economy. And what that does 64 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,200 Speaker 1: is it politicizes every other sphere of our lives, not 65 00:03:34,320 --> 00:03:38,440 Speaker 1: just politics, but even say capitalism becomes politicized too. And 66 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: so those are the two issues that I have with it. 67 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: But I don't think it's important to be able to 68 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: see what the other side proposes as even their definition 69 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,119 Speaker 1: of work before we take it down. So I love 70 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: that you're describing this because when I said that we 71 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: were going to have you on the podcast, one of 72 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:56,360 Speaker 1: the young folks in our office said, I really like him. 73 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 1: And what I like about him is that he is 74 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 1: willing to explain everything. Just go through and explain it, 75 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: and it makes sense to me. And I think that's 76 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: something that we don't necessarily get from politicians today. But 77 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: this is new for you. You're going from tech mogul 78 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: to presidents, So explain how you come to that decision 79 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 1: and how do you fight back, because sometimes when you're 80 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: in the position of becoming a political person, and you 81 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 1: do explain that's easy to attack as well. So it's tough. 82 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 1: It's a new world for you. It is a new world. 83 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 1: I don't think of myself as a politician, at least 84 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,679 Speaker 1: not yet hopefully days that way. Part of what draws 85 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 1: me in is, you know what, I actually think the 86 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: Republican Party would benefit from a new tradition for the presidency, 87 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:44,960 Speaker 1: which is that we nominate the outsider period. I actually 88 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 1: think that if you want to be a senator or 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: congressman or whatever, there's a lot of benefit to having 90 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:52,560 Speaker 1: experience in understanding the lawmaking process and how the sauceage 91 00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: gets made, in understanding how to play the political craft. 92 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: I actually think it's probably the other way around if 93 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 1: you're actually a chief executive. The chief executive before I've 94 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: built and run companies, multibillion dollar business I built from scratch. 95 00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:07,480 Speaker 1: But I think that some of those lessons actually are 96 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 1: the lessons that I intend to bring to the executive office. 97 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: Not to say that because I've built a business, then 98 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: I'm entitled to run the country. A lot of self 99 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: funders have made that mistake before. But I have a 100 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,000 Speaker 1: vision for our country that the people who we elect 101 00:05:19,080 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: to run the government to be the people who actually 102 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 1: run the government. That's not the case in the federal 103 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 1: government today. And you know what, I bring a private 104 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: sector of view to this to say that if I'm 105 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: running the federal government and you work for me and 106 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: I can't fire you, that means that you don't work 107 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,600 Speaker 1: for me. It means that I work for you, and 108 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:40,359 Speaker 1: I refuse to service President United States captive to a 109 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: federal bureaucracy that views the president as its employee. And 110 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: I don't think you're going to get that type of 111 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 1: change from an insider from a career politician. I think 112 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:50,520 Speaker 1: you get to be an outsider once we see that 113 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,400 Speaker 1: right now. Right we see a career politician in that 114 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:57,360 Speaker 1: position right now, and you can also see how handcuffed 115 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 1: he is by the fact that he's a career politician. 116 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:02,360 Speaker 1: To be honest, I love what you're saying because obviously 117 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: that's the same reason I ran for governor. And I 118 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: think it's important that the American people hear what you're 119 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,280 Speaker 1: saying in this way, because you know how to put 120 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: the right people around you. It's not about whether or 121 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,279 Speaker 1: not you know exactly how these laws came to be 122 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:21,800 Speaker 1: passed over years and years. It's because you know what 123 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 1: the vision is, you know how to cast the vision, 124 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:26,760 Speaker 1: and you know how to bring the people together. Explain 125 00:06:26,839 --> 00:06:29,760 Speaker 1: that to the American people so they totally get why 126 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 1: you think that works. Yeah, And I think especially true 127 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 1: at this moment in our history. We're in the middle 128 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,280 Speaker 1: of this national identity crisis where you ask most people 129 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 1: our age, younger, whatever, what does it mean to be 130 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 1: an American today? You get a blank stare in response. 131 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:50,600 Speaker 1: And I think an opportunity for the next US president 132 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:54,200 Speaker 1: is to deliver an answer to that question. Revive the 133 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 1: ideals that define what it means to be American, from 134 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,720 Speaker 1: merit to free speech, an open debate, to sell governance 135 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,839 Speaker 1: over aristocracy. Let's revive those ideals and then you set 136 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: a policy vision for how to implement it, but actually 137 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: get that done without an intermediating managerial class and administrative 138 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: bureaucracy that stands in the way and in between. And 139 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 1: you made a great point about Joe Biden. I mean, 140 00:07:16,920 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: I think in some ways, I think that we Republicans 141 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 1: criticize Joe Biden too much because that almost gives him 142 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:25,640 Speaker 1: too much credit, as though he is the one running 143 00:07:25,640 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 1: the government he's not. In fact, I think that if 144 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: he continues to persist in running for a reelection, we'll 145 00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: see what the National Archives does of him. It's the 146 00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 1: administrative state that views the elected officials, even in the 147 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: Democratic Party for that matter, as an inconvenience. And I 148 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 1: think you need somebody who is not going to apologize 149 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: for that vision all the way through. And I think 150 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: that there's a good chance that if you're grown up 151 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: through that very system, you're exactly the kind of person 152 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 1: that is susceptible to capture by that same administrative bureaucracy. 153 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: And so I think that's that's what we really need, 154 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: is somebody who has an uncompromising vision at a moment 155 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: where most Americans are actually hungry for it, hungry for 156 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: this missing American national identity that's the black hole that 157 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: woke ism and climate religion and gender ideology prey on. 158 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: I think if we can fill that void with the 159 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,720 Speaker 1: vision of American national identity kind of like you know, 160 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:14,520 Speaker 1: the way Reagan did that in nineteen eighty in the 161 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: back of a national identity crisis in the late seventies, 162 00:08:17,080 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 1: that's the kind of moment I think we're in now 163 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:21,240 Speaker 1: and That's a big part of what drew me into this. 164 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: If you ask me, you know, even a year ago, 165 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: was I going to run this race? Wasn't even on 166 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:27,680 Speaker 1: my mind. But I think as of you know, last December, 167 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: watching the way this will shaping up, I said, look, 168 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: this is an opportunity for the country. That's why I 169 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 1: decided to step into the void. So let me talk 170 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: to you a little bit about the things that came 171 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 1: to me when I was running and the things that 172 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: I think will be questions the American people have for you. 173 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: Because the woke issues are concerning, but the everyday kitchen 174 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 1: table issues are the ones that I hear the most. 175 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: And honestly, I will tell you that when you talk 176 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 1: about some of these woke issues, that's the left stream 177 00:08:59,160 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: because they have the best narrative to fight you on that. 178 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: But what they don't have a good narrative on is 179 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 1: how they're going to fight Fentnyl, how they're going to 180 00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:10,360 Speaker 1: secure the border, how they're going to make sure kids 181 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 1: get back on track. Those are issues that I keep hearing, 182 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:17,040 Speaker 1: But honestly, Fentnyl and the open border, what is the 183 00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,199 Speaker 1: answer there. So these I mean, these cultural issues are 184 00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: deeply linked to the issues that affect us in the 185 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 1: daily life. Let's talk about fenyl, and let's talk about 186 00:09:24,280 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: the economy. So my view is, and I'm glad this 187 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: is becoming more popular in the Republican Party. I've been 188 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:30,839 Speaker 1: saying this for the better part of the last year. 189 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 1: If you're going to use the US military to secure 190 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: someone else's border, it is a perfectly legitimate use of 191 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: the US military to secure our own border. It's not 192 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,480 Speaker 1: just build the wall. Let's build them all now and 193 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: use a military to actually secure it. That is a 194 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: legitimate use of the US military. If you actually want 195 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:49,320 Speaker 1: to solve the fentyl crisis, well, you know what you 196 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: can do to what we did inn isis if we 197 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 1: could do that in places like Syrian Iroq, we can 198 00:09:53,440 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 1: do it to the drug cartels south of the border 199 00:09:55,360 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: in Mexico. Use the military to annihilate the cartels. Now, 200 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: that's easier said than the NSA, for the longest time, 201 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,080 Speaker 1: has actually used its intelligence capacities on the other side 202 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:07,920 Speaker 1: of the world in more challenging terrain. Very little usage 203 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: of NSA resources to even light up any intelligence south 204 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: of our own border here in Mexico, even though there's 205 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,319 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand deaths per year end growing due to 206 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: fentanyl that crosses the southern border of the United States 207 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: with Mexico. So that's a solvable problem, but it takes resolve. 208 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,960 Speaker 1: It takes cutting through the defense establishment's traditional view that 209 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 1: you can only use the military to solve problems that 210 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 1: are far away from the United States. And I'm not 211 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: saying the sarcastically tutor. Actually, many people in defense establishments 212 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:37,440 Speaker 1: say that the difficulty of using the military in Mexico 213 00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:38,959 Speaker 1: is the fact that Mexico is so close to us 214 00:10:39,120 --> 00:10:41,240 Speaker 1: and that we share a border that is back. I'm sure, 215 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,320 Speaker 1: I know that's actually crazy, and so I think that 216 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,280 Speaker 1: the willingness to cut through and use logic and reason 217 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 1: to solve a problem. I mean, that's really what's at 218 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 1: stake in the wokeness debate. It's not about some cultural 219 00:10:51,760 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 1: war about what somebody was taught in general ideology and 220 00:10:53,880 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: high school. It's a symptom of a deeper abandonment of 221 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 1: basic logic and basic principles of reason and truth itself. 222 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:03,520 Speaker 1: And I think the same thing goes for the economy. 223 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you talk about kitchen tableges. I agree with you, 224 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: there's an anti growth agenda in the United States. You know, 225 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: Republicans the Democrats will debate spending cuts versus tax increases, 226 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: as though we forgot that GDP growth itself is a possibility. 227 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: In fact, it's the best way to lift us out 228 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:21,840 Speaker 1: of most of our problems. But part of the reason 229 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 1: that we have the trouble of adopting a pro growth 230 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: agenda in this country is that there's an anti growth 231 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,280 Speaker 1: agenda that stands in the way. I mean, the climate 232 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: cult is a big part of that is fundamentally anti growth. 233 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: The opposition, you know, I talked about this the first 234 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,760 Speaker 1: time we met, to nuclear energy is really hostility to 235 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,480 Speaker 1: growth itself. It's not carbon emissions because nuclear energy doesn't 236 00:11:40,520 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 1: entail carbon emissions. Nuclear energy empowers growth. What we actually 237 00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: have in this country as strain of this country, so 238 00:11:46,559 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: about twenty percent of the country or less, is fundamentally 239 00:11:49,000 --> 00:11:51,080 Speaker 1: opposed to GDP growth. They say that we should actually 240 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: live with less and that that's a different worldview and philosophy. Well, 241 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: I respect diverse views, but sorry, that's a small enough 242 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: minority of the country that it's not going to affect 243 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: my policies. We want to pro growth agenda in the country. 244 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 1: You call that woken. This is just a symptom of 245 00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 1: the same self hatred and apologism in our country. And 246 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: so that's why I think these themes of national identity 247 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 1: go hand and glove with what you call kitchen table issues, 248 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 1: which are really important. But they're not separate. They're deeply linked, 249 00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 1: I would say, at their core. Well, and when you 250 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: talk about self hate and that kind of stuff, I 251 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,120 Speaker 1: mean you really see that when you see the fact 252 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:26,360 Speaker 1: that we lost our energy independence. You talk about nuclear energy. 253 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,280 Speaker 1: We just closed a power plant in Michigan last year. 254 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 1: You see what's happening. I mean, obviously I'm very close 255 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,040 Speaker 1: to the issues in Michigan, But look at Michigan. You 256 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: see this Chinese company coming in building a battery plant. 257 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 1: You see Forward now aligning with a Chinese company. You've 258 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:44,080 Speaker 1: got Virginia saying no way, you're not coming here. Michigan 259 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: is welcoming them in. This is also part of the 260 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: climate cults, as you say, because you have these are 261 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:55,840 Speaker 1: both companies that are supposedly making these electric batteries for 262 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:58,319 Speaker 1: cars that are going to be so much more efficient, 263 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 1: even though we have no ability to power them because 264 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: we are getting fewer and fewer power plants. And we 265 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: also know that the way they are making these there's 266 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:11,000 Speaker 1: human rights abuses all across these countries that are making 267 00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,640 Speaker 1: these batteries. But also, why are we giving this power 268 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: to China? Don't you think that China is a massive 269 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,959 Speaker 1: danger to the United States. It is the number one 270 00:13:19,040 --> 00:13:20,760 Speaker 1: danger to the United States, and I think we need 271 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,839 Speaker 1: a foreign policy that wakes up to that reality. But 272 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:25,760 Speaker 1: one of the things that makes it really difficult for 273 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:28,959 Speaker 1: us to take on China is that, unlike the Soviet 274 00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: Union in the last century, they never provided Soviet which 275 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 1: never provided the shoes on our feet and the phones 276 00:13:34,480 --> 00:13:38,000 Speaker 1: in our pockets, China supplies our modern way of life. Okay, 277 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 1: that's what makes it very difficult to take on China. 278 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,560 Speaker 1: If that had been a Russian spy balloon flying over 279 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:46,319 Speaker 1: half the United States, we would have shot it down 280 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,800 Speaker 1: in an instant and we would have ratcheted up sanctions 281 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 1: on Russia. The reason we didn't do it with China 282 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: is that we're fundamentally frightened. We're frightened because we know 283 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,680 Speaker 1: we economically depend on them. That is a solvable problem. 284 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: It's been actually a lot of details. One of my 285 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,040 Speaker 1: briefings earlier this week with the supply chain expert going 286 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: through the details of how there are redundancies in the 287 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: rest of the world, from India to Brazil, to Western 288 00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: Europe to Japan. But we fall prey to this fear 289 00:14:09,760 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: that we've gun grown so addicted to China in so 290 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,680 Speaker 1: many ways, you know, actual fentanyl, financial fentanyl in the 291 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: form of national digital fentanyl in the form of TikTok, 292 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: but the broader addiction to buy and cheap stuff through 293 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,880 Speaker 1: this game of so called international trade opened up bilateral relations. 294 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: By Kissinger, this is a worst version of what was 295 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: supposed to be a dream. It's actually become a nightmare 296 00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,760 Speaker 1: where they're using our own companies as sort of a 297 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 1: sort of damocles to say that you guys are so 298 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:37,920 Speaker 1: reliant on us, that we can do whatever we want, 299 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,000 Speaker 1: even militarily or geopolitically, that you're going to stand by 300 00:14:41,120 --> 00:14:42,760 Speaker 1: and not do a thing about it. And I think 301 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: we have to call that bluff and prove them wrong. 302 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: But again, Tuor that takes the leadership, and it's not 303 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: going to come from the bipartisan consensus of the last 304 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:52,400 Speaker 1: thirty years. One of the things that we heard in 305 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:55,720 Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen campaign was manufacturing was coming back. A 306 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,400 Speaker 1: lot of that manufacturing did come back. But to your point, 307 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: there are so many many facturing companies that are now 308 00:15:01,400 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 1: intertwined with China. I come from the steel foundry industry. 309 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:09,120 Speaker 1: When I was heavily involved in steel foundries ten years ago, 310 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: steel foundries were going out of business left and right 311 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: and going to China. How do you convince companies to 312 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: start these types of corporations back up in the United 313 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 1: States because we do not have iPhone City. I mean, 314 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: when you look at iPhone City in China, you're talking 315 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: about hundreds of thousands of people that stay there. They 316 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 1: live there, they work their day in and day out, 317 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: and they go home for holidays. That's it. How do 318 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 1: we replace that other places? So I think it's a 319 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 1: combination of carrots and sticks. I mean, I think that 320 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: it's a good thing when the companies move their supply chains, 321 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,080 Speaker 1: either to the United States or even other countries outside 322 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: of China, realize the benefits of doing so, it's not 323 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 1: as hard as they think. You know, human beings companies 324 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:51,680 Speaker 1: like them, or creatures of habit, right, it's not all 325 00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: about economics. Economics and psychology go hand in glove. Once 326 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,600 Speaker 1: they realize it's not that hard, they start doing more 327 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,080 Speaker 1: of it. Once they're peers demonstrate it's not that hard, 328 00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 1: they start doing the same thing. Because China is a 329 00:16:01,320 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: risk for everyone. But I think we've got to be 330 00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: willing to use the stick too, And this is controversial 331 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 1: even in our party, but I think we have to 332 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 1: be in a position at least if we willing to 333 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,680 Speaker 1: ban most US businesses from doing business in China until 334 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: the CCP radically reforms its behaviors, and maybe that means 335 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: even the CCP until the CCP falls now. I actually 336 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 1: think I'm an optimist that that can happen because Xiji 337 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,600 Speaker 1: and Ping shot China in the foot last October is 338 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: part of his gambit to keep a third term holding 339 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 1: onto an unprecedented third term of power. Well, now is 340 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: a moment where China is actually vulnerable, and if we 341 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: pull the economic rug out from under them, I think 342 00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:40,160 Speaker 1: we can defeat them economically now so that we never 343 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: have to militarily later, and we should never want or 344 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: take steps towards a hot war with China if we 345 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: can avoid it. I think we have a window to 346 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: avoid it and I think it's my understanding of these issues. 347 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: First personally, deeply, I've been an exchange student in China, 348 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 1: done business in China. It gives me conviction that this 349 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: is actually achievable. But it's going to take some measure 350 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 1: of short term sacrifice, maybe not even sacrifice, but willingness 351 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: to make one, because in geopolitics is when you're willing 352 00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,840 Speaker 1: to make a sacrifice that actually it's most likely you 353 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: never actually have to make it. A little bit more Churchill, 354 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:13,240 Speaker 1: a little less Chamberlain. Our foreign policy would do well 355 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: with that. That's what I'm planning to deliver. Well. I 356 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: think you're right. I think there is a lot that 357 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:21,639 Speaker 1: can be done that is pro America, even if you 358 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,879 Speaker 1: are not moving your company into the United States, but 359 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: moving your company to an allied country instead of having 360 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,080 Speaker 1: them with one of our adversaries. So just quickly, lastly, 361 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:34,920 Speaker 1: I will say you're from Ohio. Many people say, as 362 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: Ohio goes goes the nation, do you win Ohio. I'd 363 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: like to think that. I think that's something we're I 364 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: would say very optimistic about. Iowa. New Hampshire are the 365 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:47,320 Speaker 1: core focus right now. I'd say this, if we're doing 366 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: what we do in rooms of one hundred or two 367 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: hundred in places like Iowa New Hampshire. I'm very optimistic 368 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: about not just the primary, but the general election. I 369 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,119 Speaker 1: think twenty twenty four has the opportunity to be a 370 00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 1: landslide election. If this about rediscovering a missing national identity 371 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 1: and an economic revival to go along with it. Now, 372 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: the key question is can we do what we're doing 373 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,640 Speaker 1: with rooms of one hundred two hundred people in Iowa 374 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 1: New Hampshire. Can we take that across the country. I 375 00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,880 Speaker 1: believe we can. We're going to do some unconventional things 376 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,000 Speaker 1: in this campaign. You know, high is my home state, 377 00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:19,359 Speaker 1: so I hope and expect to win Ohio both in 378 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:21,679 Speaker 1: the primary and in the general. But you know, I 379 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: think that the proof is going to be in the pudding. 380 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,680 Speaker 1: We're just three weeks into this and it's going well 381 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:27,679 Speaker 1: so far. But we have a long hill to climb. 382 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 1: But we're ready, ready to climb Mount Everest if Mount 383 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: Everest if we have to, and I'm excited for the journey. Well, 384 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 1: I like I'm conventional because I think Republicans have to 385 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,960 Speaker 1: start doing unconventional things because we're struggling across the nation. 386 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:44,600 Speaker 1: So I'm anxious to see what unconventional means. But I'm 387 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: really excited for you. I think that you are a 388 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: fascinating guy. I know that people across the country are 389 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 1: perking their ears up and listening to what you're saying, 390 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,880 Speaker 1: and you are definitely getting a lot of tension. So 391 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,199 Speaker 1: thank you so much for doing this. Thank you for 392 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: I know what it is to run and I can't 393 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: imagine what it is to run nationwide, So I think 394 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: that is just amazing, and I am so excited that 395 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: you are a presidential candidate. Vivek Ramaswami. Thank you for 396 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: coming on today. Thank you, and I'm excited to watch 397 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:13,320 Speaker 1: your next steps. To keep up the great work and 398 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 1: keep your voice active. Tutor, I'm incredibly proud to watch 399 00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,159 Speaker 1: you as well, So keep it up. Thanks a lot. Well, 400 00:19:18,440 --> 00:19:20,400 Speaker 1: it's fun calling you a friend. Thank you so much, 401 00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 1: and thank you all for joining me on the Tutor 402 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: Dixon Podcast. For this episode and others, go to Tutor 403 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:28,359 Speaker 1: Dixon podcast dot com. You can subscribe right there and 404 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: join us next time on the Tutor Dixon Podcast. Have 405 00:19:31,119 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 1: a great day.