Speaker 1: Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
Speaker 1: and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Speaker 1: I've got some stories to tell you. Each one of
Speaker 1: these is an individual account. After awaking at one am
Speaker 1: to use the bathroom, I settled back in our bed
Speaker 1: and was nearly asleep when I felt someone sit on
Speaker 1: the edge of the bed next to me. My eyes
Speaker 1: flew open and I was unable to speak or move
Speaker 1: my arms. I kicked my husband awake, and he held
Speaker 1: me until I was calm once again. I'm Megan. I'm
Speaker 1: eleven years old. My mom and I stayed in this room,
Speaker 1: and we both watched her hair brush fly off the
Speaker 1: desk when no one was near it. During the night,
Speaker 1: I was awakened by a bell, not like a church
Speaker 1: bell or a small tinkling bell, but more like the
Speaker 1: sound of a bell at a store counter. The next day,
Speaker 1: I woke up to the desk chair across the room
Speaker 1: and pushed against the wall. My wife and I turned
Speaker 1: the thermostat to seventy degrees before falling asleep. We both
Speaker 1: awoke in the middle of the night to find the
Speaker 1: room blazing hot. We threw off the covers and went
Speaker 1: back to sleep. A few hours later, at four am,
Speaker 1: I woke to find a small, blue eyed, blondhaired child
Speaker 1: staring at me from my side of the bed. He disappeared,
Speaker 1: and a few seconds later I heard a small child's
Speaker 1: voice speaking from my wife's side of the bed. I
Speaker 1: woke up in the middle of the night to see
Speaker 1: the bathroom light on. I like to sleep in darkness,
Speaker 1: so I got out of bed, walked across the room,
Speaker 1: and turned the light off. After getting back in bed,
Speaker 1: I rolled over to see the light was on again.
Speaker 1: This time I stood up, and as I walked over,
Speaker 1: I said, I'm trying to sleep, leave the light off, please.
Speaker 1: I went back to bed, and then heard the soft
Speaker 1: click of what sounded like my door opening and closing,
Speaker 1: as though someone left because I clearly wasn't much fun.
Speaker 1: That last story was mine, by the way, and every
Speaker 1: one of these stories was taken from the bedside journals
Speaker 1: kept at the Belvoir Winery and in in Liberty, Missouri,
Speaker 1: a haunted winery. You ask, well, when it's a former
Speaker 1: orphanage next door to a former nursing home, hospital, cemetery
Speaker 1: and morgue that ups the anti unweather your winery is haunted,
Speaker 1: so let's head to the Odd Fellows Complex. I'm Amy
Speaker 1: Brunei and welcome to Haunted Road. Visit the sick, relieve
Speaker 1: the distressed, bury the dead, and educate the orphan. That
Speaker 1: was the official purpose of the Independent Order of the
Speaker 1: Odd Fellows, which was founded by tom Us Wildy of
Speaker 1: Baltimore in eighteen nineteen. The I O o F stemmed
Speaker 1: from the eighteenth century Odd Fellows of English creation. Being
Speaker 1: of fraternal order, Odd Fellowship is also known for their
Speaker 1: mysterious and secretive rituals, including rites of initiation, a secret grip,
Speaker 1: and secret passwords. The officers and members of the lodge
Speaker 1: where regalia during closed ritual meetings. Most famously, each lodge
Speaker 1: has an actual skeleton named George, used to symbolize members mortality.
Speaker 1: The Fraternal Order first came to Missouri in eighteen thirty five,
Speaker 1: and by the end of the century they built the
Speaker 1: Odd Fellows Home, a two hundred forty acre complex. It
Speaker 1: was a form of health and life insurance, and as
Speaker 1: long as members had a good record, they could depend
Speaker 1: on the Odd Fellows for help. The complex had its
Speaker 1: own farm and expected those who could to work. It
Speaker 1: also eventually had its own hospital, an orphanage school, nursing home,
Speaker 1: and cemetery. Eighteen eighty seven was a great year for
Speaker 1: Clay County, called the Great Boom. The community benefited from
Speaker 1: the influx of real estate investment and construction. That year,
Speaker 1: the Winner Hotel was built, but the plans didn't stop
Speaker 1: with it. In eight eight the land was plotted to
Speaker 1: be the home of Red Springs, a complex intended to
Speaker 1: take advantage of nearby springs thought to be healing waters.
Speaker 1: But by eighteen nine the plans hadn't borne much fruit
Speaker 1: Besides the hotel and the owners finances were struggling. In
Speaker 1: the midst of the healing waters interest in America, they
Speaker 1: renamed the hotel the Read Springs Hotel in an attempt
Speaker 1: to attract more visitors. One of those visitors was a
Speaker 1: young Fellow who later became the Grand Master of the
Speaker 1: Odd Fellows, Dr F. H. Matthews. In poor health, he
Speaker 1: had gone to Read Springs Hotel for its healing waters.
Speaker 1: His health restored, he married a young Liberty woman and
Speaker 1: remained in Liberty to practice medicine. He later was physician
Speaker 1: at the Odd Fellows Home for twenty three years. In
Speaker 1: eighteen ninety seven, the real estate boom ended, but the
Speaker 1: Odd Fellows had purchased the hotel in Acreage. In February
Speaker 1: of nineteen hundred, the former Red Springs Hotel was then
Speaker 1: being used as an Odd Fellows home, and in an
Speaker 1: attempt to unthaw frozen pipes, the building caught fire and
Speaker 1: burned to the ground. There were allegedly three hundred residents
Speaker 1: on the property at the time, but miraculously all escaped.
Speaker 1: Although the fire set the Odd Fellows back money and labor,
Speaker 1: they took control of nearly two hundred fifty acres of farmland.
Speaker 1: Adults and children, aided by the Odd Fellows, worked this
Speaker 1: land and more or less made the home self sustaining.
Speaker 1: What stands now as the Odd Fellows District was constructed
Speaker 1: between nineteen hundred and nineteen thirty five. The establishment of
Speaker 1: statewide homes as the Missouri Odd Fellows in Liberty was
Speaker 1: viewed as a form of health and life insurance. As
Speaker 1: long as members were in good standing, they could count
Speaker 1: on the Odd Fellows taking care of them or their
Speaker 1: family if misfortunes should arise. It seemed like a bold
Speaker 1: and noble purpose, except eventually the Odd Fellows Home district
Speaker 1: became outdated and the conditions people were kept in deteriorated. Originally,
Speaker 1: the home was intended to represent modernity, cleanliness, and caretaking
Speaker 1: until social programs took over in the nineteen thirties. Now
Speaker 1: a little history on the buildings at the Odd Fellows Home.
Speaker 1: The administration building was originally built in nineteen hundred house
Speaker 1: all the inmates, employees, and functions of the complex. Now,
Speaker 1: when I say inmate, I am using an old school
Speaker 1: term to refer to the then current residence. The original
Speaker 1: school building, now gone and replaced by the modern nursing
Speaker 1: home in nineteen fifty five, was built in nineteen o four.
Speaker 1: After that, the rooms in the administration building were reduced
Speaker 1: in size to function as residences for elderly folks throughout
Speaker 1: nineteen o seven and the following year. The Old Folks
Speaker 1: Home was built in nineteen In twenty three, the old
Speaker 1: hospital was added to the grounds. By the time it arrived,
Speaker 1: there had been a need for its singular purpose since
Speaker 1: nineteen o five. Because the Grand Lodge made it impossible
Speaker 1: for the home to reject an applicant based on a
Speaker 1: physical disability, many residents required hospital care beyond that provided
Speaker 1: by the staff, nurse and doctor. The hospital was the
Speaker 1: only medical facility in Liberty for quite some time, and
Speaker 1: even had its own laboratory, but over time it too
Speaker 1: became outdated, as the halls and doorways were not wide
Speaker 1: enough for movement of hospital beds and equipment. As for residents,
Speaker 1: the early years were marked by a greater number of
Speaker 1: children versus adults. Around the time of the Great Depression, though,
Speaker 1: adults began to outnumber the children. But along with the depression,
Speaker 1: national efforts to start up social welfare programs marked the
Speaker 1: beginning of the end for the home, at least as
Speaker 1: it served the Odd Fellows. Also during the Depression, a
Speaker 1: large number of non orphan children were admitted their families
Speaker 1: were unable to care for them. In addition to education,
Speaker 1: activities for the children included music, literature, radios, religious services,
Speaker 1: holiday parties, and movie nights. To this day, people who
Speaker 1: spent time at the Orphanage come back to visit, and
Speaker 1: most recall having fond memories there. This may explain why
Speaker 1: most every encounter with the ghosts of children here involves
Speaker 1: playful activity and laughter. Now, as in life, so too
Speaker 1: and death did the Odd Fellows aid their members a
Speaker 1: cemetery plot, headstone and burial where yet another benefit provided
Speaker 1: to their members. There is an on site cemetery at
Speaker 1: the complex. Originally it began its tenure near the admin building,
Speaker 1: but was moved to higher ground in nineteen eleven. The
Speaker 1: cemetery contains the remains of nearly six hundred people. Over
Speaker 1: the decades the Odd Fellows Home was an operation, it
Speaker 1: is estimated as many as ten thousand people died there.
Speaker 1: While many were expected as people were taken care of
Speaker 1: in their later years, it's many were due to the
Speaker 1: lack of adequate medical facilities in the early years and
Speaker 1: then outdated facilities in its later years. There are also
Speaker 1: newspaper records of at least a few suicides and accidents,
Speaker 1: and a number of children are buried in the cemetery,
Speaker 1: most likely victims of pneumonia or tuberculosis and with no
Speaker 1: family or means to be buried elsewhere. In n the
Speaker 1: Odd Fellows sold the property to the current owners. At
Speaker 1: that time, every building had long been closed and out
Speaker 1: of commission, other than the nursing home, which still had
Speaker 1: a few remaining residents. Eventually, that too was shuttered, and
Speaker 1: the new owners then turned the campus into a winery.
Speaker 1: The district now totals thirty six acres. It is a dark,
Speaker 1: looming set of buildings. The original orphanage is now operating
Speaker 1: as the inn and winery, and as fate would have it,
Speaker 1: is a popular wedding venue. Also in this building is
Speaker 1: a large collection of antique Odd Fellows artifacts, including masks, robes,
Speaker 1: and of course, their very own George. This skeleton dates
Speaker 1: back to the eighties and belonged to an Odd Fellow
Speaker 1: who bequeathed his remains first to science and then to
Speaker 1: the I O O F for ritual use. Now, in
Speaker 1: addition to educating folks on the history of the Odd Fellows,
Speaker 1: he's a popular stop for selfies. Just next door sits
Speaker 1: the dormant and quiet nursing home Basement Morgue still included,
Speaker 1: and beyond that the old Folks Home and hospital. All
Speaker 1: these buildings are wide open to the elements, as nature
Speaker 1: is slowly taking over in some places, but it's not
Speaker 1: hard to imagine what the complex look like in its heyday.
Speaker 1: One thing is for sure, the Odd Fellows complex has
Speaker 1: been rumored to be haunted for decades. Many locals have
Speaker 1: stories of being dared to enter the buildings in their
Speaker 1: teenaged years and having strange encounters. Former staff of the
Speaker 1: nursing home, which remained open long after the other buildings
Speaker 1: had closed, reports strange going on, especially on the night shift,
Speaker 1: and of course the current employees have no shortage of
Speaker 1: tales to tell visitors and guests. I should add the
Speaker 1: place is now patrolled by security, so no more breaking
Speaker 1: and entering, please. Even Jesse lime Killer, who I should
Speaker 1: explain as a dear friend and CEO of the winery.
Speaker 1: His wife, Melissa's father is the one who originally took
Speaker 1: on the task of buying the complex, doesn't shy from
Speaker 1: telling his ghost stories. Will be interviewing him in a bit,
Speaker 1: but he has seen the apparition of a small child,
Speaker 1: a woman, and a shadowed silhouette. He's also personally told
Speaker 1: me numerous stories of voices and footsteps in the building
Speaker 1: when he has been all alone. It's not unusual for
Speaker 1: guests to report footsteps or to hear the pianos playing
Speaker 1: on their own, have lights turn on and off, or
Speaker 1: see doors slam. So now that you're an expert on
Speaker 1: all things odd Fellows Home, let's have a chat with Jesse.
Speaker 1: I actually met Jesse and his wife Melissa when we
Speaker 1: filmed Ghost Hunters at the home so many years ago,
Speaker 1: and we hit it off, Daly, I mean, of course
Speaker 1: we did. A family who loves to travel and owns
Speaker 1: a haunted winery. Let's just say we were fast friends.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show, Jesse, thank you for having me,
Speaker 1: of course. So can you kind of explain how you
Speaker 1: came into owning and running a haunted winery in sure? Yeah,
Speaker 1: so my wife's parents, they originally acquired the property directly
Speaker 1: from the odd Fellows, the odd Fellows that had the
Speaker 1: property for about a hundred years, and we acquired it
Speaker 1: in My in law's dream was to turn the winery property,
Speaker 1: which it was actually just a nursing home, and at
Speaker 1: that time they wanted to turn the proper me into
Speaker 1: a winery and then a bed and breakfast as well,
Speaker 1: and so we started making making those changes and renovating
Speaker 1: just to make the winery and then eventually we've fulfilled
Speaker 1: what they wanted and about the last five years we
Speaker 1: completed the in as well, and now they have it
Speaker 1: all m So can you just kind of explain who
Speaker 1: the odd Fellows were? Yeah? So the odd Fellows is
Speaker 1: a fraternal order and charitable order, much like the Mason, Shriners,
Speaker 1: Knights of Columbus. Those type of groups, the lodges would
Speaker 1: be located in each individual city, um they would be
Speaker 1: everywhere the height of the organization, which was in the
Speaker 1: thirties and the forties, and so they would have the
Speaker 1: meetings in those lodges, and they would also hold the
Speaker 1: rituals in those lodges, and the ritual was based on
Speaker 1: Old and New Testament teachings, mainly the parable that goods
Speaker 1: the Briton. And then in addition, they would also have
Speaker 1: what they called Odd Fellows homes, and they were one
Speaker 1: or two in each state, and their purpose was strictly charitable.
Speaker 1: They were looking to take care of the orphans, take
Speaker 1: care of the poor, how's retired people. And then also
Speaker 1: in some cases they would have a hospital there as well. Okay,
Speaker 1: so were these buildings where they open to just members
Speaker 1: of the Odd Fellows or were these places that anyone
Speaker 1: in the community could make use of, so a mixture
Speaker 1: of both. They had the orphanage which could be open
Speaker 1: to the public, and they were just there to take
Speaker 1: care of anybody who needed help in that regard. Usually
Speaker 1: it wasn't necessarily that the family was giving up the
Speaker 1: orphan It was more a situation where, for example, in
Speaker 1: the twenties thirties fourries, they couldn't always feed their family members,
Speaker 1: all of them in some cases, and so they would
Speaker 1: drop off, usually the younger members of the family. The
Speaker 1: older families they would keep on the farm because they
Speaker 1: were able to work, whereas the younger kids, they would
Speaker 1: take them to these orphanages where they be fed and
Speaker 1: taking care of and clothes, and then eventually when the
Speaker 1: family got back on their feet, they would come back
Speaker 1: and get the orphans. Hopefully. I didn't. I was not
Speaker 1: aware of that. I just I feel like everybody assumes
Speaker 1: orphans means no parents or no family. Yeah, yeah, in
Speaker 1: some cases, I mean. And and it was kind of
Speaker 1: weird too, because in the case of the orphanage, the
Speaker 1: families would actually come visit them periodically in many cases,
Speaker 1: um and so we have a lot of stories where,
Speaker 1: for example, a family might have six kids and three
Speaker 1: of them were at the orphanage, and then three of
Speaker 1: them were at home working on the farm on the property,
Speaker 1: and every two to three weeks the family would usually
Speaker 1: come on a Sunday after church, they would come and
Speaker 1: visit the other kids. They would hang out, they would
Speaker 1: have a picnic, just do family things like everything was normal.
Speaker 1: And then at the end of the afternoon, the family
Speaker 1: would head back with the older kids back to the farm,
Speaker 1: and then the younger kids would be left there for
Speaker 1: another two to three weeks before they saw their family again.
Speaker 1: It's it's so poor into what we think about now,
Speaker 1: you know, as as as how things run. But at
Speaker 1: the time that was that was very normal. That was
Speaker 1: just a way that the private organizations helped people. But
Speaker 1: it was just a way of life, and that was
Speaker 1: how they survived during that time. So why Liberty, Like,
Speaker 1: I know, when I when I get to the winery,
Speaker 1: when will you arrive? It's really set away from everything,
Speaker 1: you know. Is there a reason why they picked Liberty
Speaker 1: in particular? So generally speaking, they obviously turned to try
Speaker 1: to be relatively close to bigger cities, which obviously Kansas
Speaker 1: City is only about oh fifteen minute drive twenty minute
Speaker 1: drive tops. So what they would try to do is
Speaker 1: get towards those big population centers where there was the
Speaker 1: most need. In the case of Liberty, Liberty actually originally
Speaker 1: was going to house a Mason's home there, and what
Speaker 1: happened was is that deal fell through, and so then
Speaker 1: the city of Liberty offered the odd Fellows seventeen thousand
Speaker 1: dollars and that would have been which is a lot
Speaker 1: of money back then. But they offered that money to
Speaker 1: them and said, hey, will you come and take what
Speaker 1: the building, which was basically a bankrupt hotel. And so
Speaker 1: they had this large hotel on the edge of their
Speaker 1: town and they wanted to do something with it, so
Speaker 1: they offered them this money to come in and set
Speaker 1: something up, and that's how they came to be at
Speaker 1: the property. It was also really close to the river
Speaker 1: and a major road which was nice as well, so
Speaker 1: that's originally how they came to that property. Did you
Speaker 1: ever have any connection to the Winter Hotel or the
Speaker 1: Red Springs Hotel or anything like that. Yes, So that
Speaker 1: was the hotel that I just spoke of that was bankrupt.
Speaker 1: So it originally the original building was a wood structure
Speaker 1: on the site and it was built in eighteen eighty.
Speaker 1: It was called the Winter Hotel initially um and that
Speaker 1: was the person that actually built it, and then later
Speaker 1: it became the Red Springs Hotel as well. But there
Speaker 1: was actually a full plan for the entire property. Originally
Speaker 1: it was supposed to be a community with lots of
Speaker 1: houses and businesses, and there was actually a horse racing
Speaker 1: track out in front of the property that they did
Speaker 1: actually build and was used for a period of time.
Speaker 1: But all that was supposed to happen this giant community
Speaker 1: just outside of Liberty, and then basically they built a hotel.
Speaker 1: It did all right for about a decade, and then
Speaker 1: there was a real estate crash early in the eighteen
Speaker 1: nineties and the Mr Winner who owned the place, he
Speaker 1: basically lost all his properties, and so that's how it
Speaker 1: became a bankrupt hotel and became for sale, and that's
Speaker 1: how the odd Fellows ended up with it. I see, now,
Speaker 1: did that building burn down or is that one of
Speaker 1: the structures that's still there? Correct? So the odd Fellows
Speaker 1: got the property with the original hotel in and turned
Speaker 1: that into an orphanage. And then on Valentine's Day nineteen hundred,
Speaker 1: in that building, the cook who was there, they had
Speaker 1: a frozen pipe and he wasn't able to do what
Speaker 1: he needed to do to cook the meals, and so
Speaker 1: he actually went down in the basement and was using
Speaker 1: a blowtorch to heat the pipe, and part of the
Speaker 1: blowtorch evidently caught part of that wood section on fire.
Speaker 1: He didn't know it initially, that's what happened, and of
Speaker 1: course it went up flames in a hurry because it
Speaker 1: was a wood structure. And that's actually one of the
Speaker 1: main reasons that the current building is built with, you know,
Speaker 1: eighteen inch brick walls, because the odd fillo is to
Speaker 1: not want that to happen again, and so they built
Speaker 1: one of the most fire resistant structures in the United
Speaker 1: States at that time because they didn't want to have
Speaker 1: another wood truck that might go up again. Yes, so
Speaker 1: we're the other buildings present when that Orphanage building was rebuilt.
Speaker 1: The Orphanage building was the original building it was built
Speaker 1: in that's also the current winery building. And then the
Speaker 1: second building that was built was the schoolhouse next door.
Speaker 1: It was built in nineteen o two. Then the old
Speaker 1: Folks Home was built in nineteen o five, and then
Speaker 1: finally the medical hospital at the far end it was
Speaker 1: built in the early twenties. Okay, I just I noticed,
Speaker 1: like when you when you go there, the Orphanage which
Speaker 1: is now the winery is just it is in Obviously
Speaker 1: it's in great shape because you guys did a lot
Speaker 1: of renovating on it and things. But I feel like
Speaker 1: that building has just kind of stood the test of
Speaker 1: time better than some of the others because the other
Speaker 1: ones are they're just wide open to the elements and
Speaker 1: they it's so surreal because you roll up there and
Speaker 1: you see this big, you know, structure, and then you
Speaker 1: see these other structures around it that are covered in
Speaker 1: vines and are wide open, and just it looks like
Speaker 1: it should be haunted. And you would never expect to
Speaker 1: walk into to the winery building and find this like
Speaker 1: beautifully restored you know, obviously the winery and the bar,
Speaker 1: and then upstairs this beautiful in I don't know, I
Speaker 1: always feel like it's just such a contrast between that
Speaker 1: building and the other buildings and how they have kind
Speaker 1: of fared over the years. Yeah, and it's a it's
Speaker 1: a lesson obviously and kind of choose your poison as
Speaker 1: far as you know, when you're dealing with these properties.
Speaker 1: You know, we've spent a few million on the building
Speaker 1: that we do have, you know, but it literally if
Speaker 1: we want to do all the buildings, it literally costs
Speaker 1: like tens of millions of dollars, and a lot of
Speaker 1: people are wondering, you know, well, why don't you restore
Speaker 1: them all? It's like, well, they cost a lot of
Speaker 1: money to make to make history happen in those cases,
Speaker 1: and so you know, as much as we'd like to
Speaker 1: just blow right through them and do them all, you
Speaker 1: kind of have to stagger it so that you're able
Speaker 1: to afford it and not go you know, like Mr
Speaker 1: Winner go bankrupt in the process. Exactly, exactly. Now, let's
Speaker 1: talk about just you know, why it's haunted over the
Speaker 1: years throughout those buildings. How many people do you think
Speaker 1: passed away on that property? The off Fellows have just
Speaker 1: over ten thou recorded deaths on site. Most of those
Speaker 1: are obviously in the nursing home, the old folks home,
Speaker 1: in the hospital. You know, I mean the hospital for
Speaker 1: the first half of the last century. It wasn't always
Speaker 1: a place that you were cured. Sometimes in some cases
Speaker 1: it was a place where you were just brought to
Speaker 1: be comfortable. You know, they didn't have things like antibiotics
Speaker 1: and stuff like that for a long period of time,
Speaker 1: and so stuff that you know, we cure easily, they
Speaker 1: it wasn't cured easily back then. And then in addition,
Speaker 1: there were lots of residents. I mean, between the nursing
Speaker 1: home and the old Folks Home, there's about two rooms
Speaker 1: in those two buildings, so you can imagine how many
Speaker 1: people were going in and out. And it wasn't a
Speaker 1: situation where they had a lot of long term residents. Necessarily,
Speaker 1: they were coming in out relatively quickly. And in fact,
Speaker 1: we have the cemetery on site which acts about six
Speaker 1: hundred graves. And it's easy to see too if you
Speaker 1: go up there that most of the graves that are
Speaker 1: up there, I think there's only about five orphans or
Speaker 1: something like that. Most of the graves up there are
Speaker 1: people who lived into their eighties and nineties, and we
Speaker 1: don't always think about that because so many times, you know,
Speaker 1: they tell people, oh, well, they didn't live as long
Speaker 1: back then, but there was a lot of people that
Speaker 1: did still live that long, and so a lot of
Speaker 1: those people up there have lived a long life and
Speaker 1: and passed away on the property. Yeah, and it sounds
Speaker 1: like when it was built, it was it was state
Speaker 1: of the art, but then at some point it kind
Speaker 1: of started falling behind, you know, was there kind of
Speaker 1: a shift or turn as far as the conditions there
Speaker 1: at some point. Yeah, the first shift, the major shift
Speaker 1: that happened was, you know, when you have federal government
Speaker 1: takes over things like well fair and child protective services.
Speaker 1: For many years, these kind of places provided those kind
Speaker 1: of services, and the ones that that change took place
Speaker 1: in the federal government started covering some of those kind
Speaker 1: of things, there was no need for those things there.
Speaker 1: As a result, there was a situation where something that
Speaker 1: was a stream of revenue that was providing maintenance in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases suddenly wasn't there anymore, and your
Speaker 1: left basically with a nursing home at that point. And
Speaker 1: while you know, theoretically you could do that, it's much
Speaker 1: more difficult to run that kind of a property with
Speaker 1: that size where it's only a nursing home in a
Speaker 1: lot of cases. To the odd fellows, they would pay
Speaker 1: a stipend throughout their life as an odd Fellow, and
Speaker 1: then if they paid for a certain number of years,
Speaker 1: they would get free retirement at the site. While that
Speaker 1: was a great idea in principle, what happened was as
Speaker 1: you go along, they didn't get as many new members
Speaker 1: coming in and so as a result, there was less
Speaker 1: of a revenue stream coming in to support all these
Speaker 1: people being taken care of at the nursing home, and
Speaker 1: as a result, you know, then they suddenly had these
Speaker 1: behemoth properties with not enough revenue coming in to support them.
Speaker 1: And so it seems like probably the closures were sort
Speaker 1: of staggers, and then, like you said before, by the
Speaker 1: time your wife's family purchased at it was just the
Speaker 1: nursing home and operation. Correct. Yeah, correct, there's only one
Speaker 1: building in operation at that time, and I think there
Speaker 1: was only about fifteen residents there, so it's not very many.
Speaker 1: And in fact, the building where the winery is it
Speaker 1: was actually closed for no I'd say, about five to
Speaker 1: eight years before we even got it as well, so
Speaker 1: it was already in somewhat of a stated decay and
Speaker 1: we were we got it in and restarted from the
Speaker 1: studs basically. So why why do you think Why do
Speaker 1: you think it's haunted? Um? I think it's a mixture
Speaker 1: of things. UM. In the winery building, I don't think.
Speaker 1: I don't feel like it's a situation where it's a
Speaker 1: threatening thing in any way. It's more playful usually, which
Speaker 1: makes sense. I mean, there's mostly kids there in some cases.
Speaker 1: I mean, most of the residents that were there that
Speaker 1: we've met who used to be orphans, they said it
Speaker 1: was actually a nice place to stay. They were well
Speaker 1: taken care of, and they didn't really have any issues
Speaker 1: with staying there other than the fact they would have
Speaker 1: rather been home with their families obviously. But you know,
Speaker 1: I think I think some of them actually had some
Speaker 1: good times with some good friends there and and still
Speaker 1: enjoy it. And there were a few that passed away there.
Speaker 1: I mean, it does happened. As far as the other buildings,
Speaker 1: you know, it's more old age and those kind of things.
Speaker 1: A lot of those buildings, it's more of a vibe
Speaker 1: like they don't want you there. It's kind of like
Speaker 1: grumpy old people kind of thing where you don't feel
Speaker 1: welcome there necessarily just because they'd rather not have you there.
Speaker 1: It's one of those things where I don't know that
Speaker 1: those people necessarily enjoyed their stay as much as maybe
Speaker 1: the orphans did. So I think it's why there's a
Speaker 1: totally different vibe there. And of course just the simple
Speaker 1: fact that so many people passed away there. We've come
Speaker 1: across a few other situations. There's a one week in
Speaker 1: the mid thirties the summer where they had like seven
Speaker 1: residents pass away from a heat wave. It just literally
Speaker 1: got up to like a hundred nine degrees for several
Speaker 1: days in a row, and those residents were in the
Speaker 1: building and they literally just you know, overheated to death.
Speaker 1: And there there was a suicide on site one that
Speaker 1: we know of. UM, some other situations, but you know,
Speaker 1: there's plenty of life events that happened in those buildings,
Speaker 1: so I don't think it should be all that surprising.
Speaker 1: What would you say is the most common occurrences that
Speaker 1: people report, either in the in in winery or just
Speaker 1: in the buildings. UM. I think the two main things
Speaker 1: are voices. It seems like there's a lot of situations
Speaker 1: where you feel like you'll be in the building all
Speaker 1: alone and you'll hear conversations down the hallways. It will
Speaker 1: be more than one person. As you walk toward, it
Speaker 1: just kind of goes away. The other thing is very
Speaker 1: prevalent is footsteps in the other buildings. A lot of
Speaker 1: times you can actually hear them. In some cases. It's
Speaker 1: kind of weird because even though all the breed that's
Speaker 1: on the floor wasn't there at the time those people
Speaker 1: were there. In most cases, you can actually hear the floor,
Speaker 1: you can hear the crunching, you can hear the noises,
Speaker 1: which is probably unique. I don't know if that's common
Speaker 1: or not, but I feel like that's something that doesn't
Speaker 1: always happen. I feel like sometimes you'll have a normal
Speaker 1: footstep if I despite the fact that there's kind of
Speaker 1: free on the floor, that should be making a different town.
Speaker 1: H It's such an interesting, um influx of visitors that
Speaker 1: you have because you know, having visited many times, you
Speaker 1: have people who are definitely there just to kind of
Speaker 1: enjoy the winery and in the sceneries. It's beautiful, you know,
Speaker 1: the land and everything in the views, and then you
Speaker 1: definitely have the people that are there just to look
Speaker 1: for ghosts. And how is that received in the community. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I think it's something they've grown accustomed to.
Speaker 1: Even before we open the property, you know, there are
Speaker 1: rumors of paranormal activity. I can say we didn't really
Speaker 1: experience that much before. Um, you know, we were out
Speaker 1: there more often, which would have been around two thousand
Speaker 1: eight somewhere in that range. We didn't really experience that
Speaker 1: much out there. To be honest with you, Once we
Speaker 1: were out there more often, I think it became more obvious,
Speaker 1: and it was a situation where, you know, we couldn't
Speaker 1: really hide from it. There was so much talk in
Speaker 1: the community. In a lot of cases, it's an institution
Speaker 1: that a lot of people in the community were involved in.
Speaker 1: I mean, people come in, you know, when they're tasting
Speaker 1: tasting wine and things like that, and they'll tell stories
Speaker 1: about you know, when I was a kid fifty years ago,
Speaker 1: I used to come out and sing for the old
Speaker 1: folks home for caroling, you know, or the boy Scouts
Speaker 1: used to paint some kind of pesticide on the bottom
Speaker 1: three feet of all the trees. You have painted trees
Speaker 1: throughout the property, or all those kind of things, and
Speaker 1: all those people came out, and so it's been such
Speaker 1: an integral part of the community for so long. I
Speaker 1: think at this point people are just glad that they're
Speaker 1: able to come visit it again and and see the
Speaker 1: history and all that kind of stuff. And and in
Speaker 1: a lot of cases we have people who come multiple times,
Speaker 1: and they keep bringing different people, and in some cases
Speaker 1: they're just you know, they'll go out and do their
Speaker 1: own tour and tell the history and we don't even
Speaker 1: have to do the work for them. That is nice
Speaker 1: to have. It is interesting because so many times when
Speaker 1: we investigate places like that, you know, we don't ever
Speaker 1: really get to talk to people who truly spent time there.
Speaker 1: But that is one difference there that it was such
Speaker 1: a huge part of the community for so long, Like
Speaker 1: you have generations of people who either knew someone who
Speaker 1: spent time there or who worked there. Because I know,
Speaker 1: when we were filming Kindred, we kind of put a
Speaker 1: call out at the last minute because we wanted to
Speaker 1: kind of do this experiment and bring out people who
Speaker 1: had some sort of attachment to the building, and we
Speaker 1: got a huge response, Like it was not hard to
Speaker 1: find people who had, you know, actually spend time in
Speaker 1: those walls when it was functioning. Yeah, absolutely, so real talk.
Speaker 1: How many times have your in guests left in the
Speaker 1: middle of the night. We actually we actually keep a
Speaker 1: running count and the current count is seventeen rooms I've
Speaker 1: left in the middle of the night so far. So
Speaker 1: and that's in four years time. So you know, about
Speaker 1: every two to three months we get somebody who just
Speaker 1: flat out all the building is done for the nights,
Speaker 1: I don't want to stay here. There are other nights
Speaker 1: or other situations where we do have you know, they
Speaker 1: get freaked out, but maybe they don't leave. We had
Speaker 1: one where there was a couple that was staying and
Speaker 1: they woke up in the middle of the night and
Speaker 1: had voices and one of the people felt somebody sitting
Speaker 1: down on the bed next to where they were sleeping.
Speaker 1: I said, they were done, and they went out to
Speaker 1: the car, and the spouse was like, I'm all right
Speaker 1: with that, and so the spouse actually stayed in the
Speaker 1: room while the other person went out and slept in
Speaker 1: the car for the last four hours. Oh my goodness.
Speaker 1: They're lucky their marriage survived that, you know. And it's
Speaker 1: funny because I started, uh, I started this podcast kind
Speaker 1: of reading off some experiences because you have journals in
Speaker 1: every room for people to you know, just you know,
Speaker 1: write their experiences down, which is really great because we
Speaker 1: always recommend that to people when they're researching their hauntings,
Speaker 1: is to keep kind of a running log, and so
Speaker 1: you have people doing that for you. But yeah, one
Speaker 1: of them act she wasn't experience just like that. A
Speaker 1: lot of people seem to feel someone sitting down on
Speaker 1: their beds. You know, I know me personally, I always
Speaker 1: stay in the bridal suite, of course, and that I've
Speaker 1: had the bathroom light turned on and off in their
Speaker 1: multiple times. And I've also had the door open and
Speaker 1: clothes in there, and I've heard so many sounds. Like
Speaker 1: I know, when I stay there, I'm not frightened in
Speaker 1: the slightest, but I do usually wear ear plugs or
Speaker 1: have a fan going so I don't have to hear
Speaker 1: all the sounds that are happening around me, because I
Speaker 1: swear I've heard footsteps there a few times too. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they have. UM. There was one couple that was in
Speaker 1: there that um. As you know, our rooms are next
Speaker 1: each other, our standard rooms are next to each other,
Speaker 1: and so they were staying in room nine, which is
Speaker 1: right next room seven. And in the morning they came
Speaker 1: out and I said hi and greeted them and asked
Speaker 1: asked them how their night was, and they said, well,
Speaker 1: it was fine until their neighbors started making a bunch
Speaker 1: of noise and said, oh, that's terrible what happened. So
Speaker 1: they talked about it. I think it was like four
Speaker 1: in the morning they heard footsteps next door and a
Speaker 1: bunch of talking, and they were annoyed, and I even
Speaker 1: got the impression that maybe they were going to ask
Speaker 1: for some money back or something like that, because they
Speaker 1: were so frustrated with the situation. And I said, well,
Speaker 1: let me check, and so I went over to the
Speaker 1: computer and pulled it up. There was nobody staying in
Speaker 1: Room seven the entire night. We didn't have a key
Speaker 1: out for that. And I said, I don't have anybody
Speaker 1: in that room. I said, there's literally nobody there, and
Speaker 1: and I said, I feel free to take a peek.
Speaker 1: And they came around and looked and realized that there
Speaker 1: was nobody in that room, and they actually apologized to
Speaker 1: me on the spot and said, I am so sorry.
Speaker 1: Apparently we got what we're looking for and we just
Speaker 1: didn't know. It's I think that hotels sometimes worry about
Speaker 1: having that reputation, and I'm constantly explaining to them that
Speaker 1: it's very rare that that is going to stop from
Speaker 1: someone from staying in a hotel. It might make them
Speaker 1: leave in the middle of the night, but even that's
Speaker 1: pretty rare. Yes, yes, absolutely, we have. Generally speaking, it's
Speaker 1: been a very positive experience as far as that goes. Now,
Speaker 1: I feel as though the Morgue to me in the
Speaker 1: nursing home, and then I would say probably out. I
Speaker 1: can't even pick which spot is the most active paranormally
Speaker 1: speaking to me, Um, I do know the morgue has
Speaker 1: notoriously been a spot where I've had a male voice
Speaker 1: down there talk to me. I've had something grabbed my
Speaker 1: arm down there. Chip Coffee famously had his arm grabbed
Speaker 1: in the morgue. What spot do you think has kind
Speaker 1: of the most extreme activity, um, I would say that
Speaker 1: morgue as well, actually, and some of it I would
Speaker 1: attribute to when I go down there, I just don't
Speaker 1: feel comfortable in any way, shape or form. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's a situation where it's cold, it's clammy. There's literally
Speaker 1: like doors all around you. You know, there's kind of
Speaker 1: that central area where there's you know, everywhere you look
Speaker 1: there's a door staring at you. It's a it's total darkness.
Speaker 1: You know, even one of the doors that has nurses
Speaker 1: locker room where you know they're still closed in there
Speaker 1: from forty years ago. And let the left there like
Speaker 1: just happened yesterday almost and you know, all that just
Speaker 1: kind of there's a big vibe down there, and you
Speaker 1: can just feel it almost feels like a buzz. I
Speaker 1: just don't I don't like it much. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: happy to go in most the areas, and I'll go
Speaker 1: into the morgue as well, but you know, I won't
Speaker 1: go down there unless I have. Yeah, there's times where
Speaker 1: we're doing events. They are a group investigations, and you know,
Speaker 1: I've had to move from like point A to point
Speaker 1: B by myself. And you know, I have this thing
Speaker 1: I do when I'm in a really haunted space and
Speaker 1: I'm nervous, which I get nervous. I can't help it,
Speaker 1: especially when you've been grabbed in the dark by something
Speaker 1: you can't see. But I tend to whistle or hum
Speaker 1: because I feel like nothing bad can happen. And so
Speaker 1: if I'm whistling or humming in a cheerful way, because
Speaker 1: it's quicker sometimes to go through the morgue to get
Speaker 1: to the you know, because sometimes there's people up on
Speaker 1: the upper level or that door's locked, and so whenever
Speaker 1: I have to do that, I'm like humming and whistling
Speaker 1: and rushing through there as quick as I can. And
Speaker 1: that's the one spot that I do that, so, you know,
Speaker 1: and I think that, having investigated there so many times,
Speaker 1: I do think that there is something to the idea,
Speaker 1: like we explored on the episode of Kindred we did there,
Speaker 1: that people start kind of bringing that energy with them,
Speaker 1: and people investigate there so often that certain areas that
Speaker 1: get that reputation they almost kind of perpetuate that energy
Speaker 1: and it stays there. And and the morgue and the
Speaker 1: nursing home in particular, I think are perfect examples of that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I get a heavy feeling of in that In
Speaker 1: that building as well, I'm always looking over my shoulder
Speaker 1: and it's not a it's not a situation where you're like,
Speaker 1: you know, a little freaked out kind of thing. I mean,
Speaker 1: I've been there for almost three decades now, that seems
Speaker 1: like forever. But I don't get freaked out easily. It doesn't.
Speaker 1: It takes a lot for me to get freaked out.
Speaker 1: But when you're in that building, it just really feels
Speaker 1: like something's just standing over your shoulder. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: I don't know how to explain it. That sounds weird
Speaker 1: and ridiculous, but it's true. I Mean, it just totally
Speaker 1: feels like something's watching you. Yeah, I mean, I can't
Speaker 1: even begin to imagine who it could be. There's any
Speaker 1: number of people it could be. We've we've done so
Speaker 1: much digging, we've done so much historical research, We've gotten
Speaker 1: so many names. We've actually had spirits there identify themselves
Speaker 1: to us before. We we've had a spirit correct the
Speaker 1: pronunciation of their name to us before. But whoever that
Speaker 1: is in the nursing home and the morgue, they remain anonymous.
Speaker 1: They won't tell us really much of anything, and they
Speaker 1: seem to just kind of exists there, and they tend
Speaker 1: to scare people a lot. Well, I think that that's
Speaker 1: it for now, unless there's anything you want anyone to
Speaker 1: know about investigating there, any activity that happens there, Like
Speaker 1: if there's any message you want to get across to
Speaker 1: people who plan on visiting, this is a good time
Speaker 1: to do that. No, not really. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: most people realize it's really tough to investigate the wider
Speaker 1: in the most part because our tours that we have
Speaker 1: they sell out really quickly. You know, hopefully everyone gets
Speaker 1: the opportunity that wants to eventually, But I mean it's
Speaker 1: a it's a wonderful place to visit. It. It's a
Speaker 1: wonderful place to learn about a lot of history that
Speaker 1: you wouldn't normally learn about um And I always tell people,
Speaker 1: you know, paranormal activity is a great way to teach
Speaker 1: people about history without them necessarily knowing that you're teaching
Speaker 1: them something. I mean, if we just had buildings and
Speaker 1: we were telling them about the Odd Fellows, they wouldn't
Speaker 1: pay attention. But when we talk about the Odd Fellows
Speaker 1: and their paranormal activity behind, it's suddenly everybody's very interesting
Speaker 1: what's going on. So that's a great part of the
Speaker 1: property and a great part of the learning experience. You
Speaker 1: know that people enjoy when they come to the winery,
Speaker 1: So I think that's fantastic. Well, thank you for your time.
Speaker 1: I appreciate it everyone. I do encourage you to visit
Speaker 1: the winery and in if you're in the area, or
Speaker 1: make a special trip for it, because it's worth it.
Speaker 1: There's so much to see and do nearby as well.
Speaker 1: And you know, like I said in the beginning of
Speaker 1: the interview, Jesse and his family and the winery all
Speaker 1: have a very special place in my heart. It's place
Speaker 1: unlike any other, so um highly recommend very haunted, lots
Speaker 1: of great stories, lots of great history. So Jesse, thank
Speaker 1: you so much. I super appreciate your time. I love
Speaker 1: the evolution of the Odd Fellows complex, and I love
Speaker 1: the acceptance of the owners in embracing their ghosts. But
Speaker 1: over the years things have gotten a little darker in
Speaker 1: certain corners of those crumbling buildings. Well, I don't think
Speaker 1: the place is infested with demons or anything. I don't
Speaker 1: think you can have a space like that with paranormal
Speaker 1: investigators going in and out constantly, some terrified, some nervous,
Speaker 1: some rehashing and discussing every tragedy or death that has
Speaker 1: happened there without affecting the energy and the walls. It's
Speaker 1: something we've seen time and time again with some of
Speaker 1: these more well known locations. And while those thoughts are inevitable,
Speaker 1: it also lends to a valuable lesson. If you believe
Speaker 1: in the power of paul positive thought, then you should
Speaker 1: also entertain the power of negative thought and what that
Speaker 1: means when you walk the dark house of an old
Speaker 1: hospital thinking about every bad thing that happened there. Let's
Speaker 1: turn that around, shall we. I'm going to focus on
Speaker 1: those cozy beds in the inn and of course the
Speaker 1: great wine. Though I do recommend traveling with a good
Speaker 1: pair of ear plugs should you stay at the end.
Speaker 1: So until next time on Haunted Road, cheers. Haunted Road
Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Speaker 1: Mild from Aaron Mankey. The podcast is written and hosted
Speaker 1: by Amy Bruney. Executive producers include Aaron Manky, Alex Williams,
Speaker 1: and Matt Frederick. The show is produced by rema Ill
Speaker 1: Kali and Trevor Young. Taylor Haggerdorn is the show's researcher.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from I Heart Radio, visit the I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.