Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, the show that
Speaker 1: just got even louder, prouder, boulder and braver, more charismatic,
Speaker 1: more charming, more hilarious. We're sassy, sexy, and always searching
Speaker 1: for a spotlight because it's Leo season, babe.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: On today's show, we're going to give you a scouting
Speaker 1: report for the Zambia Copper Queens ahead of Team usay's
Speaker 1: Olympic soccer opener. Talk to US soccer icon Abby Wambach
Speaker 1: about her confidence in the US team headed into the games,
Speaker 1: plus Jill Ellis and soccer's culture problems, and so much more.
Speaker 1: But first, here's what you need to know today. The
Speaker 1: US women's national team plays its first soccer match of
Speaker 1: the Olympic Tournament tomorrow against Zambia. More on that game
Speaker 1: coming up later in the show. The viewership numbers for
Speaker 1: the twenty twenty four WNBA All Star Game were incredible.
Speaker 1: Per the Athletics Richard Deitsch, the game had a record
Speaker 1: three point four to four million viewers. The previous record
Speaker 1: was one point four million. Women's soops, y'all, like a
Speaker 1: mother rocket ship, we've got another female athlete cover star
Speaker 1: this time. It's Team USA gymnast Jordan Childs, who Grace
Speaker 1: is the cover of teen Vogues July August edition. We
Speaker 1: cannot wait to watch her in Paris. Christina Williams new
Speaker 1: women's basketball podcast, In Case You Missed It with Christina Williams,
Speaker 1: launches today. Every week, she's going to break down the
Speaker 1: biggest headlines and women's soups and sit down with some
Speaker 1: of the biggest names in the game. You can listen
Speaker 1: on the iHeartRadio app and wherever podcasts are streamed. We're
Speaker 1: all very pumped to watch the US women's soccer team
Speaker 1: open up their Olympic campaign tomorrow, July twenty fifth against
Speaker 1: Zambia in Group B play at staud Denise in Nice, France.
Speaker 1: You can watch the game at three pm Eastern on
Speaker 1: USA Network, Universo and Peacock. Here's what you need to
Speaker 1: know about the Zambian team. We're going to start with
Speaker 1: the unsettling and ongoing investigation into their coach. Head coach
Speaker 1: Bruce Moape will not be allowed to have any private
Speaker 1: contact with his players at the games, and yet he's
Speaker 1: still been granted a visa to lead the team despite
Speaker 1: an ongoing investigation into allegations of sexual misconduct against him.
Speaker 1: FIFA is still investigating claims that Wape rubbed his hands
Speaker 1: over the chest of a player after a training session
Speaker 1: at last year's World Cup. The Guardian also revealed in
Speaker 1: May that he was accused of intentionally touching a FIFA
Speaker 1: contractor's breast at the same tournament. Before last year's World Cup,
Speaker 1: Wape was the subject of an investigation into allegations of
Speaker 1: sexual misconduct by a number of players. He has previously
Speaker 1: denied the accusations. It feels like every single international tournament
Speaker 1: we're having a conversation about a team who is expected
Speaker 1: to play despite toxic environment created by their coach, their federation,
Speaker 1: or some other combination of people. And Zambia is the
Speaker 1: latest example of players who are going to be expected
Speaker 1: to compete at the highest level despite all of that.
Speaker 2: Going on on and off the pitch.
Speaker 1: Sort of hard to believe that a coach would be
Speaker 1: allowed to coach a team while still not being allowed
Speaker 1: to have private contact with any of them, the players.
Speaker 1: But here we are speaking of the players. Let's get
Speaker 1: to these incredible Zambian players known as the Copper Queens,
Speaker 1: and where else can we start? But Barbara Banda with
Speaker 1: fifty three goals in sixty international games and twelve goals
Speaker 1: in twelve games in the NWSL this season. The Orlando
Speaker 1: Pride striker is one of the best forwards in the world,
Speaker 1: and we already know she can go off on a
Speaker 1: big stage. In the Tokyo Games, she had two hat tricks.
Speaker 1: In fact, Banda is the first and only player of
Speaker 1: any gender to score three goals in back to back
Speaker 1: games in Olympic history. Forward Rachel Kundananji, who represented Zambia
Speaker 1: both in Tokyo and at the twenty twenty three World Cup,
Speaker 1: is an NWSL player as well. She suits up for
Speaker 1: expansion side BAFC, and midfielder Grace Chanda is set to
Speaker 1: join Banda in Orlando following the Olympics. Also, this Olympic
Speaker 1: opener will be the first meeting all time between the
Speaker 1: US women's national team and Zambia. Bottom line is Zambia
Speaker 1: didn't advance out of their group in either the last
Speaker 1: Olympics or the World Cup.
Speaker 2: But if Barbara Banda is on.
Speaker 1: The field, absolutely no team is safe, especially since this
Speaker 1: US team has struggled to score, putting up just four
Speaker 1: goals in four games. At last year's World Cup and
Speaker 1: again going scoreless in their final friendly with Costa Rica.
Speaker 2: Will the US change course in France? I don't know.
Speaker 1: Old habits die screaming. While I'm optimistic about this killer
Speaker 1: trio of Trinity Rodman, Sophia Smith and a very healthy
Speaker 1: mouse Swanson, they still got to prove it. The US
Speaker 1: scorers better finish where this is going to be a
Speaker 1: very short vacance in France. Finally, a Zambia fun fact.
Speaker 1: Their national symbol, the African fish eagle, looks a lot
Speaker 1: like America's bald eagle, So in true American fashion, I
Speaker 1: had to find out whether our eagle was better than
Speaker 1: their eagle. And based on the highly respected and definitely
Speaker 1: fully vetted website animalmatchup dot com and using the infallible
Speaker 1: truthiness of AI to create a simulated battle the bald Eagle,
Speaker 1: our bald eagle, bigger and faster, wins quote. In a
Speaker 1: thrilling display of strength and skilled the bald eagle emerges
Speaker 1: as the victor in the epic battle against the African
Speaker 1: fish eagle. With its powerful beacon sharp talents, the baald
Speaker 1: eagle has proven itself as the ultimate predator.
Speaker 2: Of the Skies, Take that, Zambia.
Speaker 1: When we come back, Abby Wambach and I ruin one
Speaker 1: of your favorite books from childhood by analyzing it through
Speaker 1: the lens of feminism and climate change.
Speaker 2: Come on back.
Speaker 1: Abby Wambach is a two time Olympic gold medalist, a
Speaker 1: World Cup champion, a six time winner of the US
Speaker 1: Soccer Athlete of the Year award, and a member of
Speaker 1: the National Soccer Hall of Fame. She is still the
Speaker 1: highest all time goal scorer for the US national team,
Speaker 1: and her one hundred and eighty four international goals are
Speaker 1: second all time for both female and male players. She's
Speaker 1: part of the ownership group for Angel City FC of
Speaker 1: the National Women's Soccer League, one of three co hosts
Speaker 1: of the wildly successful podcast We Can Do Hard Things.
Speaker 1: She's responsible for one of my all time favorite sporting
Speaker 1: moments just her head was her header in one hundred
Speaker 1: and twenty second minute of the twenty eleven World Cup
Speaker 1: against Brazil. And according to the Internet, Abby and I
Speaker 1: share the same favorite book. But do you cry every
Speaker 1: single time you read it, Abby, or.
Speaker 2: Is that just me?
Speaker 3: Okay? What's the book?
Speaker 2: According to the Internet, It's The Giving Tree.
Speaker 3: Okay, Sarah, This is a good place to start, because
Speaker 3: I have been in therapy for the last like I
Speaker 3: don't know, a year or so, and I was just
Speaker 3: talking about this with my therapist the other day. I
Speaker 3: think that maybe I have to revise this answer of
Speaker 3: it being my favorite book. And I think you will
Speaker 3: track with me here the idea, the whole idea of
Speaker 3: just giving, of just giving and expecting nothing in return,
Speaker 3: and giving and expecting nothing in return. For me, as
Speaker 3: a people pleaser, somebody who really likes to avoid conflict,
Speaker 3: this book fit fit my parts really well, fair and
Speaker 3: it has made it very difficult for me in a
Speaker 3: lot of ways. And we don't need to keep talking
Speaker 3: about this, but I have to say that I think
Speaker 3: that maybe I'm appalled with this book. I get the intention,
Speaker 3: but it feels very not feminist. It feels very like
Speaker 3: wife in the kitchen just to accept the little crumbs
Speaker 3: that she gets in her family systems.
Speaker 1: So I don't know, not only not favorite, but fully
Speaker 1: anti the giving tree at this point. So I guess
Speaker 1: my thing is, first of all, I've never had trouble
Speaker 1: being too giving. I'm a very generous person, but I've
Speaker 1: always had very set boundaries on how much I'm willing
Speaker 1: to give versus what I should be demanding. But also
Speaker 1: the book to me was more of a warning than
Speaker 1: it was happy. That's why I ball at the end,
Speaker 1: because I don't think you're supposed to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: the tree, that's a great example.
Speaker 2: It was like that kid, yes, and this is the world.
Speaker 1: The world keeps taking and taking and taking, and the
Speaker 1: tree is trying to show us what life looks like
Speaker 1: if you're generous, but when you don't get it in return,
Speaker 1: And that, to me is also about nature, the tree
Speaker 1: of nature.
Speaker 2: And the boy was man. And that's why I'm.
Speaker 3: Like, why you went to Ivy League school and I
Speaker 3: did not?
Speaker 2: You got it well? Either way.
Speaker 1: I still cry every time I think about it, and
Speaker 1: it makes me angry, and yet it's still my favorite,
Speaker 1: which is maybe something I should go to therapy for.
Speaker 1: We're going to get back to therapy and your podcasts
Speaker 1: and how it is my personal therapy. But I want
Speaker 1: to talk Olympics just to start, because we are one
Speaker 1: day away. Tomorrow, the US women open their competition against Zambia.
Speaker 1: It's their first big tournament under their new head coach,
Speaker 1: Emma Hayes. A legend in England, a cheeky babe who
Speaker 1: comes in and we are expecting her to turn this
Speaker 1: team into the magic that we used to see on
Speaker 1: the regular. What do you think the biggest difference we're
Speaker 1: going to see with Emma at the Helm versus the
Speaker 1: four years under save lad Gwandanowski.
Speaker 3: Good question, difficult answer. First of all, I had the
Speaker 3: pleasure of working with Emma a long long time ago,
Speaker 3: back with the Washington Freedom, back in like the WUSA days,
Speaker 3: And she's wonderful. She's smart, she's funny, she's tough. She
Speaker 3: has the kind of personality I think to get the
Speaker 3: most out of the players. And you know, it's tough
Speaker 3: because these Olympics, it's eighteen players. To go from a
Speaker 3: World Cup roster down to eighteen, that's five or you know,
Speaker 3: depending on alternates, that's a lot of bodies that you've
Speaker 3: got to decide who your team is going to be,
Speaker 3: and in many ways, for her, who she's setting up
Speaker 3: to begin her tenure at US Soccer. So I when
Speaker 3: I was a player, we went through rebuilding years, We
Speaker 3: had difficult times that we had to kind of start
Speaker 3: fresh and and and you know, I think that Emma
Speaker 3: is going to have a challenge ahead of her because
Speaker 3: the rest of the world is getting so much more competitive,
Speaker 3: and also in some ways, clearly when we saw the
Speaker 3: last World Cup, they're getting better, you know, they're getting
Speaker 3: They're they're not just catching up anymore. They're they're in
Speaker 3: many ways better than Yeah, they're better. And I feel
Speaker 3: I feel excited and also a little nervous, just because
Speaker 3: it's a new coach. How are the players going to
Speaker 3: respond to her? How is she going to turn the
Speaker 3: tide so that we can become what we all kind
Speaker 3: of hope, love and expect about watching our team play.
Speaker 1: The The.
Speaker 3: Talent is there, the players are good enough. It's the
Speaker 3: thing about some of the coaches that have been so profound,
Speaker 3: so profoundly helpful at managing how to bring all of
Speaker 3: that extraordinary talent together. And it's not an easy thing.
Speaker 3: It's not you just got to do this one thing
Speaker 3: right and you'll make it work. It's all of these little,
Speaker 3: teeny minuscule details that have to kind of these puzzle
Speaker 3: pieces have to actually link up and come together right
Speaker 3: before world events for those world events to actually come
Speaker 3: and go our way. We're going to compete. I'm excited.
Speaker 3: I love watching World Championships. I love the Olympics, especially
Speaker 3: because it's you know, there's all the other players, all
Speaker 3: the other athletes, all the other sports they're competing, and
Speaker 3: so we just get this little like fraction of the
Speaker 3: Olympic Games. But it's I'm excited to see what she
Speaker 3: can do. I'm a little bit nervous around the age
Speaker 3: of this team. It's very young, and like, on the
Speaker 3: same note, it's like, okay, like, how if I were her,
Speaker 3: what would I do? Would I want to start fresh?
Speaker 3: Would want to would I want to build my own
Speaker 3: group of players so that we could be good for
Speaker 3: the next and dominant for the next ten years. I
Speaker 3: don't know. Good luck, Emma, good luck to the girls.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good luck, Emma. You know you mentioned this.
Speaker 1: We talk a lot about other teams catching up or
Speaker 1: even passing by the US, and particularly with other countries
Speaker 1: having distinct style differences, skill focus, different tactics in sort
Speaker 1: of lay person's terms. When we're watching this Olympics, will
Speaker 1: we be able to see how the US uses a
Speaker 1: different tactics or approach than other countries that are having
Speaker 1: success or do you expect us to notice even from
Speaker 1: what we watch at the World Cup to this new
Speaker 1: Emma Hayes led team.
Speaker 2: Oh they're doing something real different.
Speaker 3: Now, great question. I'm excited to learn that myself. I
Speaker 3: haven't had too much time to watch her, her be there,
Speaker 3: you know, her be at the helm leading this team.
Speaker 3: Only a couple of games they've done, and well, I've
Speaker 3: heard good things. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: when you get into a World Championship, the stakes are
Speaker 3: so much higher and the players have to bring a
Speaker 3: kind of outsized confidence to themselves and to each other.
Speaker 3: And a lot of times, in my experience leadership, the
Speaker 3: older players who have been there before often gave the
Speaker 3: younger players in some ways kind of the sense of confidence.
Speaker 3: I mean, the amount of huddles that I would be
Speaker 3: in and I'd be like, look, if you're worried, if
Speaker 3: you're freaking out, I get it. I know what it's
Speaker 3: like to be here. Just look at me, Just look
Speaker 3: at me in the way that I'm playing. And I
Speaker 3: don't know if we have that kind of leadership in
Speaker 3: terms of veteran age wise. You know, I know, Lindsay
Speaker 3: Hernn is going to be doing her best wearing the
Speaker 3: captain's band and a listen there, my gosh, she's done
Speaker 3: so well for us over the last many years, and
Speaker 3: I hope that they can bring that kind of confidence
Speaker 3: in themselves, because when you're out there and you're nervous
Speaker 3: and you don't know necessarily how to deal with all
Speaker 3: this pressure, what are you going to do?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: You got to look to your left and look to
Speaker 3: your right and get that confidence from your teammates. And
Speaker 3: I just hope that they can bring that sense of
Speaker 3: confidence with them throughout this first group stage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that leadership guidance thing from the Vets. We've talked
Speaker 1: about it a lot, in part because of Alex Morgan
Speaker 1: not making the cut, and it's made us sort of
Speaker 1: look around to the other veterans on that team that
Speaker 1: might step up. Do you remember any specific language guidance
Speaker 1: leadership from a VET that stuck with you when you
Speaker 1: were new to the national team, any one particular person
Speaker 1: or maybe quote that you held onto.
Speaker 3: Good question. Honestly, I got onto the team right after
Speaker 3: the ninety nine World Cup, and these players became worldwide
Speaker 3: like phenoms, you know, Mia Hamm and Julie Foudy and
Speaker 3: Christine Lilly, like these women who really like built women's
Speaker 3: soccer in this country, and so I didn't It wasn't
Speaker 3: necessarily what they said, it was how they played. It
Speaker 3: was like how they treated each other. And I just
Speaker 3: I remember being super young, just promising myself to be
Speaker 3: a sponge, just to learn everything that I possibly could
Speaker 3: and do whatever they wanted me to do. Early on
Speaker 3: as a young player, you know, I was one of
Speaker 3: the best on most of the teams that I played on,
Speaker 3: and then here I find myself on the best team
Speaker 3: in the world, becoming the worst player on the team.
Speaker 3: And so I just remember finding myself feeling like it
Speaker 3: was the game was too fast and I couldn't catch
Speaker 3: up to the play or their thought process or anything.
Speaker 3: And so just promising myself not to check out, to
Speaker 3: stay in it, to be challenged, to confront my own
Speaker 3: my own sense of self right, and to be like
Speaker 3: am I good enough? And so there were days, I
Speaker 3: swear to God, there were days that I came off
Speaker 3: the field and I went back into my hotel room
Speaker 3: and I was like, I am actually the worst player here.
Speaker 3: And the question that I had to keep asking myself was, Okay,
Speaker 3: you just need to make small games. You just need
Speaker 3: to make a small bit of difference day after day
Speaker 3: after day, and then slowly lo and behold, a little
Speaker 3: sense of confidence will spark. I'll score a goal, I'll
Speaker 3: make an assist. A player after a game will come
Speaker 3: up to me and be like, yo, that was really great.
Speaker 3: But one thing I promised myself to do was I
Speaker 3: wasn't going to ever let somebody else work harder than me.
Speaker 3: That was the only thing I could control. My confidence
Speaker 3: was going to go up and down, my statistics would
Speaker 3: go up, up and down, but my ability to put
Speaker 3: in the work and the effort, and that was, honestly
Speaker 3: something I struggled with in college. Was just like work
Speaker 3: ethic and hard work and consistency, and.
Speaker 2: That's shocking to me. That's shocking.
Speaker 1: But then I also, if I remember correctly, in youth soccer,
Speaker 1: you had like thirty goals in a game once. So
Speaker 1: I feel like maybe it came a little too easy
Speaker 1: to you at the beginning. I mean, you really did
Speaker 1: peak at like eight.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately I just came five five.
Speaker 1: It came a little too easy too, And then eventually
Speaker 1: you needed to get enough of a challenge to decide, Oh,
Speaker 1: I guess I have to work at this.
Speaker 3: That's right, that's right.
Speaker 2: Would would that we all had that problem.
Speaker 1: It's just too easy, you know, chemistry with coach, chemistry
Speaker 1: with team. I feel like sometimes my favorite teams I've
Speaker 1: watched from the beginning of the season and not known
Speaker 1: that they were going to go on to win it all,
Speaker 1: but seen something special. They felt super tight, they felt
Speaker 1: super connected in a way that you know, you're playing
Speaker 1: the backwards game of like, oh, you could see this coming.
Speaker 1: But I wonder how important you think that is and
Speaker 1: can enough talent overcome either a lack of chemistry with
Speaker 1: team or coach. I mean, we certainly saw in the
Speaker 1: World Cup with Spain that those women managed to blow
Speaker 1: past every obstacle that the Spanish Soccer Federation put in
Speaker 1: front of them, including their coach, and win the whole
Speaker 1: damn thing. That's not ideal, that's not what we want
Speaker 1: players to go through. But is that some sort of
Speaker 1: proof that, like it doesn't you don't need all that
Speaker 1: chemistry with coach, or maybe that you just need it
Speaker 1: with team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, good question. I think I think as it relates
Speaker 3: to I've played on teams before that we all kind
Speaker 3: of banded together in spite of a coach that we've
Speaker 3: won World championships. I also have played under coaches that
Speaker 3: we loved and won. I know it's a lot easier,
Speaker 3: a lot more fun when you like and you respect
Speaker 3: that coach, right, And I also know that it's just
Speaker 3: a lot more difficult, but it's still possible, right, So yes,
Speaker 3: the coach matters because they're the ones that are deciding
Speaker 3: who's on the field, when they're on the field, what tactic,
Speaker 3: all of that. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 3: it's eleven players out there. Right. We had a coach
Speaker 3: at one point who tried to change the formation at
Speaker 3: the end of the game of a gold medal medal match,
Speaker 3: and our captain was like no, She was like no,
Speaker 3: that like, we are gonna We're going to stay the course.
Speaker 3: We're going to do what we do, and we ended
Speaker 3: up winning that gold medal that year. And I think
Speaker 3: that I think that there is always a moment that
Speaker 3: all the World Championships, I was able to be a
Speaker 3: part of that. I could draw back a couple of
Speaker 3: months prior to the World Championship starting, and I could
Speaker 3: I could remember like a single practice where everything just
Speaker 3: like kind of clicked it, like it was like the
Speaker 3: perfect moment, like the perfect gelling, the perfect environment. Everybody
Speaker 3: was like flying, playing hard at their peak. You could
Speaker 3: tell everybody was as committed as the other. And I
Speaker 3: hope that I hope that for our team that this
Speaker 3: summer in Paris, I hope that they can look around
Speaker 3: and get the sense that this is a team that
Speaker 3: could win, because in the end, there's so many factors, right, Like,
Speaker 3: you can have the right team, you can even have
Speaker 3: the right coach, but then you could have a referee
Speaker 3: that makes a mistake, or you could have a moment
Speaker 3: where another team steps up and just has the game
Speaker 3: of their lives, right Like, there's it.
Speaker 1: Could be a deflection, Yeah, something as simple as a deflection.
Speaker 3: Exactly, And so you just never know. And so there
Speaker 3: is this element of like luck or what I call
Speaker 3: the soccer gods. They just kind of need to be
Speaker 3: on your side in those knockout round games in order
Speaker 3: for you to be standing on that top podium come
Speaker 3: the end of the Olympics.
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of people use meditation, visualization, self talk,
Speaker 1: their favorite music, get those nerves handled right before big
Speaker 1: tournaments like this. Did you have a trick and or
Speaker 1: did one of your teammates have something extremely quirky that
Speaker 1: you were like, I don't know what's going on over there,
Speaker 1: but if it works, like go for it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I think about this a
Speaker 3: lot now because I am kind of baffled at my
Speaker 3: own self. I'm on a self love journey and I
Speaker 3: cannot believe the person that I am now in this
Speaker 3: body today, almost ten years since I played. I cannot
Speaker 3: believe that I did the things that I did. And
Speaker 3: so I think a lot about like kind of the
Speaker 3: psychology and the and for lack of a better word,
Speaker 3: like kind of the spirituality that goes into and the
Speaker 3: energy that goes into playing on a team full of
Speaker 3: women that go out into the field and play a
Speaker 3: game and try to try to triumph over their opponents.
Speaker 3: And yes, I did have some weird things that I
Speaker 3: did prior to the game. But what I want to
Speaker 3: talk about, which I think the average person listening ps,
Speaker 3: I'm an average person now, So I put myself backus
Speaker 3: average us, average folks listening.
Speaker 2: We're not buying it, but carry on.
Speaker 3: We have this capacity within us that I think prevents
Speaker 3: us from achieving some of the things we want in
Speaker 3: our lives. And it's this ability to plant a flag
Speaker 3: in the ground, and the flag says I care the most,
Speaker 3: and I think our vulnerability, our fear of vulnerability, prevents
Speaker 3: us from doing it, our fear of embarrassment, just like
Speaker 3: our fear in general. I wanted my teammates to always
Speaker 3: know that I cared, like the most what this outcome was. Right.
Speaker 3: If we won, I was going to celebrate the most.
Speaker 3: If we lost, I was going to take the most
Speaker 3: responsibility for that loss. I knew that my team's uh
Speaker 3: success relied a lot on whether I scored goals for us.
Speaker 3: Now that doesn't mean that I was the only one
Speaker 3: that that created wins and losses for our team. There
Speaker 3: was a lot of elements that went into it. But
Speaker 3: I do know that this energy and this this fearlessness
Speaker 3: to looking at each other being like we care about
Speaker 3: this a lot like our own, like almost as if
Speaker 3: our life depends on it. And honestly though that this
Speaker 3: is not a healthy way. I actually believed in my
Speaker 3: cells that my life depended on winning games. In some ways,
Speaker 3: it did because you know, my money, endorsements and all
Speaker 3: that stuff mattered so that I could like have the
Speaker 3: things in my life that I had, but also like
Speaker 3: on an energetic level. Like I think that that is
Speaker 3: one of the things that draws people into our women's
Speaker 3: national team so much, is because we don't fear planting
Speaker 3: that flag and saying I care the most, I give
Speaker 3: the most hits about this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, You've talked about this on your podcast, even talking
Speaker 1: about watching your kids play and Glennon not being your wife,
Speaker 1: Glennon Doyle not being an athlete necessarily herself watching and
Speaker 1: being amazed and impressed that people are earnestly giving their
Speaker 1: best and putting it all out there and being vulnerable
Speaker 1: in wanting so badly to win. And I think as
Speaker 1: athletes we take that so for granted. And you know,
Speaker 1: looking back as an athlete myself, same as you, it's like,
Speaker 1: I sometimes I am amazed that I just was willing
Speaker 1: to go out there and be like, I'm trying my
Speaker 1: very hardest at something and if I fail, You're going
Speaker 1: to know that I tried really hard and I still
Speaker 1: couldn't do it.
Speaker 2: And I think that's a lot for some people.
Speaker 3: And I think, honestly, this is why when we have
Speaker 3: watched some of the greatest athletes in the world of
Speaker 3: all time, when we watch them play there's something about
Speaker 3: them that draws us in. And yes, of course it's
Speaker 3: because we assume that they're going to score that point,
Speaker 3: score that goal, you know, throw the ball, well whatever,
Speaker 3: But it also is in the way that they respond
Speaker 3: to the moment. So the big moment against Brazil where
Speaker 3: I score with my head, right, I deeply believe that
Speaker 3: this moment only happens because there is this this first
Speaker 3: of all, my fearlessness, heinos fearlessness in the moment of
Speaker 3: going I don't care what happens. I care the most though,
Speaker 3: that we're going to try, right. And so yeah, it's
Speaker 3: like when you're a viewer of this and you're watching this,
Speaker 3: you're like, yes, so much is on the line. But
Speaker 3: watching people go, I'm going to give me the ball.
Speaker 3: I can do it the last moment, the last second
Speaker 3: play Michael Jordan, whoever? Yeah, and then and then and
Speaker 3: then all of the other people in the world watching
Speaker 3: this moment energetically willing this moment to happen. Like to me,
Speaker 3: I just I find it's so fascinating. There's going to
Speaker 3: I'm sure there's gonna be more science proving me correct
Speaker 3: around that the energy of these moments matter. So watch
Speaker 3: the team play, like send them good vibes, like positive
Speaker 3: thinking this thing, that this moment could be the one
Speaker 3: moment that changes the game.
Speaker 2: So cool chills just thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Every time I think about that goal and everything that
Speaker 1: had to happen right in an exact moment. You know,
Speaker 1: we're hearing a lot about gender parody at this Olympics,
Speaker 1: and we of course love the increased numbers of women
Speaker 1: competitors in the US has more women than men this
Speaker 1: year as well, But there's only twelve women's soccer teams
Speaker 1: and there's sixteen men's that ain't parody. Do you want
Speaker 1: to see the women's tournament get up to sixteen too?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I would love. I would love a bigger tournament for
Speaker 3: a lot of reasons. I think that logistics play a
Speaker 3: difficult role in this, and the length from opening ceremonies
Speaker 3: to closing ceremonies, I think is much shorter than like
Speaker 3: a World Cup length of a tournament. HI producer Alex
Speaker 3: asi here noted, Olympic expert hate to nitpick, but it's
Speaker 3: actually opening ceremony singular. Same goes for the closing ceremony,
Speaker 3: So people don't really know this very often or even
Speaker 3: are conscious of this. But the women's soccer teams, and
Speaker 3: I think all the soccer games start before the opening Olympics,
Speaker 3: before the ceremonies, so they can fit in the group
Speaker 3: stage and then the knockout around stage games because otherwise
Speaker 3: the games are just too close together and it's really different.
Speaker 1: Well, already two days is crazy for a turnover for
Speaker 1: a soccer athlete.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the fact that the men have a bigger
Speaker 3: pool of teams, to me, it's just you know, FIFA
Speaker 3: and the IOFC, this is like kind of they're just
Speaker 3: very slow to jump on board with the way of
Speaker 3: at least American world right. Yeah, I would love to
Speaker 3: see them.
Speaker 2: I think it's coming though.
Speaker 1: I think we're seeing enough other countries that are improving
Speaker 1: their federations that we're going to almost have to expand
Speaker 1: that field. In your final World Cup, you played under
Speaker 1: head coach Jill Ellis. She's now the president of the
Speaker 1: San Diego Wave in the NWSL. She's been the subject
Speaker 1: of recent criticism from former employees. Your former national team
Speaker 1: teammate Sidney LaRue told the podcast a few years ago, quote,
Speaker 1: we won in spite of her. She's not good for
Speaker 1: people's mental health, that's for sure. The best thing was
Speaker 1: for her to go unquote. There's still a lot of
Speaker 1: reporting to be done about what happened with the wave
Speaker 1: in general. But I wonder, you know why you think
Speaker 1: women's soccer is still struggling with so many instances of
Speaker 1: complaints about toxic workplaces. We saw a massive investigation in
Speaker 1: the NWSL a couple of years ago that forced a
Speaker 1: lot of coaches and owners out. And is there something
Speaker 1: about the subjectivity of soccer where you can really convince
Speaker 1: people that person isn't playing because we're in a different
Speaker 1: format or you know, we're doing a different strategy and
Speaker 1: that's why, and that subjectivity allows for mind games and
Speaker 1: the bullshit that we see. Or why is soccer struggling
Speaker 1: with this not just in Dan Diebussel, but the global level?
Speaker 3: That question I have been asking also, Sarah. I don't
Speaker 3: have an answer for this. I think probably what's happened
Speaker 3: is the popularity of women's soccer grew faster than the
Speaker 3: small town, small business owner mentality of some of the clubs,
Speaker 3: the owners, the the understanding of you know, old school
Speaker 3: versus modern ways of thinking, and there's a there's been
Speaker 3: a transition period, right that has I think kind of
Speaker 3: been difficult for some of the older coachings, you know,
Speaker 3: the players and that became coaches. We were all raised
Speaker 3: playing under coaches in certain ways, with certain cultures, with
Speaker 3: certain mindsets. Uh. And now this younger generation has come
Speaker 3: in and there's just like a different vibe, rightfully. So
Speaker 3: of course, like every new generation that comes in, they
Speaker 3: think differently because they've experienced the world differently. And I
Speaker 3: don't think that the two have caught up. I don't
Speaker 3: think that they're they're like seeing eye to eye. I
Speaker 3: don't know that answer. I really don't. And and and
Speaker 3: it makes me sad in so many ways because I
Speaker 3: don't think that one side is all right and the
Speaker 3: other side is all wrong. I really don't. I do
Speaker 3: think that there are, like, you know, obvious bad actors
Speaker 3: that need to be on the outside of these teams,
Speaker 3: that need to not be working in women's sports ever. Again,
Speaker 3: I think that I think that, you know, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know much about the Jill Ellis situation, and
Speaker 3: I can't really speak to it, but I do know
Speaker 3: my experience with Jill, and it has always been positive.
Speaker 3: She's always had the like the team's best interest at heart. Uh.
Speaker 3: And I understand that, like when players don't get minutes
Speaker 3: and don't and aren't given what they think that they deserve.
Speaker 3: I also understand that that it's hard to be objective
Speaker 3: in those moments. It really is. It's hard to know. Now,
Speaker 3: I'm not talking about sexual assault here. I'm not talking
Speaker 3: about some of the coaching the coaches that have have
Speaker 3: really violated the players and their and their rights. But
Speaker 3: being in a coaching position is really difficult because you
Speaker 3: have to make hard decisions that really affect players' lives.
Speaker 3: But I just think that it's like a young, a
Speaker 3: young industry that is also being seen by a lot
Speaker 3: more people now popularity wise, and the expectation of of
Speaker 3: you know, NFL level professionalism is there, but it's just
Speaker 3: not we haven't had that many years in existence to
Speaker 3: have that level of professionalism or even like a way
Speaker 3: of operating. I mean, listen, it's like a brand new business,
Speaker 3: like we've got to figure out more, you know. And
Speaker 3: I bet if we were to go back at at
Speaker 3: the beginning of all these huge, you know, major league
Speaker 3: sports that we now watch and love, I bet that
Speaker 3: they had a ton of issues you know that we
Speaker 3: don't remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and a lot of them still do. Exactly a
Speaker 1: lot of them still do. And I do think you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's an unfair question in part because it's like
Speaker 1: basically asking why are there issues anytime women are involved
Speaker 1: in anything in the world.
Speaker 2: Exactly, It's like, well, let's.
Speaker 1: Start with, like, you know, the patriarchy and all the
Speaker 1: other things that trickle down into the literally everything we do.
Speaker 1: I love your podcast so much. It has literally changed
Speaker 1: my life. And I know you've heard that from so
Speaker 1: many people, millions of people. I listen to every episode.
Speaker 1: I take so much away from it, including the episodes
Speaker 1: that I start and I think this isn't going to
Speaker 1: be for me, and by the end, I go, gosh,
Speaker 1: I learned so much and it makes me see people
Speaker 1: who have this or do that or feel this way differently.
Speaker 1: Just has made me a better human being. I wonder
Speaker 1: what you're digging into right now. Are you reading a book,
Speaker 1: are you circling a topic, are you like honed on
Speaker 1: something that you're thinking you want to bring to the pot.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the my update on my brother passing away
Speaker 3: is coming out pretty soon, So I am I am
Speaker 3: pretty deep in the grief game right now, and it is.
Speaker 3: It has been hard and terrifying and beautiful and difficult
Speaker 3: and probably one of the most illuminating things that's ever
Speaker 3: happened in my life as a person on this planet.
Speaker 3: And so yeah, I'm definitely in the I'm kind of
Speaker 3: in this weird like mortality place where I'm accepting that
Speaker 3: I'm going to die because I think that I avoided it,
Speaker 3: like like the plague my whole life.
Speaker 2: Like a lot of us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I am also coming to terms with like
Speaker 3: I'm trying like the thing that I'm trying on right now,
Speaker 3: like as a as a way of thinking or like
Speaker 3: a philosophy is like equal parts. Everything matters, all the
Speaker 3: things matter, and then also nothing matters. Yeah, Like I
Speaker 3: can't wrap my mind around how everything is everything and
Speaker 3: nothing is also and everything is also nothing? Yeah, Like
Speaker 3: how it can it can end just like that? And
Speaker 3: then how can I how can I rationalize or or
Speaker 3: choose to participate in my life in a way that
Speaker 3: brings me meaning? And then I go down the rabbit
Speaker 3: hole like well then what like what is meaning making?
Speaker 3: And why am I actually doing it? Is it just
Speaker 3: to pass the time? Is it to make myself feel
Speaker 3: good while I pass the time while I'm here, And
Speaker 3: so I'm just like in this weird like existential and
Speaker 3: I don't want to say mid life crisis because I
Speaker 3: think we get that. I think that it's wrong to stay.
Speaker 3: I think it's like mid life questioning where I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 3: I just like awakening crisis. It makes me feel like
Speaker 3: I'm pulling my hair out and like going to buy
Speaker 3: like a red Porsche or something like. No, I'm just
Speaker 3: like I'm like sitting with like real questions and I'm
Speaker 3: really trying to understand. I don't know ram Das. He
Speaker 3: has this awesome documentary called Becoming Nobody, and essentially this
Speaker 3: really rings true to me. Essentially, like the idea of
Speaker 3: human's life is like, we spend so much of our time,
Speaker 3: especially the first half of our life, becoming somebody. And
Speaker 3: this documentary is like and it's Buddhist and meditative and
Speaker 3: trying to be hitting, you know, trying to find nirvana
Speaker 3: and enlightenment. And I think the the idea of becoming
Speaker 3: nobody is something that I think that that might be
Speaker 3: the journey that I'm going to be going on for
Speaker 3: the rest of my life.
Speaker 2: This is going to help a lot of people.
Speaker 1: Talking about grief and talking about this point in your
Speaker 1: life is going to help a lot of people.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I was an a void for a long time and
Speaker 1: then had my friend and her mother who had a
Speaker 1: terminal illness on my podcast, and listening to her perspective
Speaker 1: on knowing what was coming and her daughter's perspective on
Speaker 1: knowing she was going to lose her mom and having
Speaker 1: to really face that conversation with them was actually incredibly freeing.
Speaker 1: And so I look forward to hearing that and for
Speaker 1: all your listeners to get to hear it. I'm also
Speaker 1: really looking forward to you and glennon breaking down the soccer.
Speaker 1: I'm some of my favorite times are just watching you
Speaker 1: guys film watching the soccer and glennon explaining things like
Speaker 1: offsides and bringing all these people in with your orange
Speaker 1: slice mentality of you know, whatever you know or don't
Speaker 1: know about it, let's all watch it together.
Speaker 2: So that's going to be super fun. Abby, You're the best.
Speaker 1: Thanks as always for coming on having a soccer insight,
Speaker 1: life insight, and everybody listened to we can do hard things.
Speaker 3: It's the best, awesome. Thank you so much. Sarah.
Speaker 1: After the break, we'll tell you what to put in
Speaker 1: your ear holes stick around.
Speaker 2: Oh hi again.
Speaker 1: As always, we do love that you're listening, but we
Speaker 1: want you to get in the game every day as well.
Speaker 2: So here's our good Game play of the day.
Speaker 1: And it's another easy one just subscribe to in case
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Speaker 1: go listen and go get them Christina and another great
Speaker 1: listen the recap show Soccer Greats and Power couple Tobin
Speaker 1: Heath and Kristen Press talk about all things soccer, and
Speaker 1: in the latest episode, they get into how soccer match
Speaker 1: is happening before the opening ceremony and in cities outside
Speaker 1: of the main host city kind of make soccer players
Speaker 1: feel like outsiders at the Olympics. In fact, in a
Speaker 1: previous episode, Kristen talked about how she was in the
Speaker 1: Rio Olympics and has never been to Rio.
Speaker 2: Great Conversations on that podcast. Check out the recap show.
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Speaker 2: I just got that. I just I just got that.
Speaker 2: Panteen Minus. Props to you.
Speaker 1: Panting minus wrote yay and finally a podcast solely about
Speaker 1: women's sports.
Speaker 2: Yes, and it's brilliantly written, hosted, and produced.
Speaker 1: Beyond thrill to have Sarah Spain back in the daily
Speaker 1: podcast rotation.
Speaker 2: Thank you panteen Minus. See rating and reviewing is so easy?
Speaker 2: How about another? Fireflies rating five out of five stars.
Speaker 2: Review they don't buy, they don't.
Speaker 1: Carry diseases, Nature's Nightlight, no notes, don't forget. You can
Speaker 1: always hit us up on our email good game at
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Speaker 1: or you can even leave us a voicemail message eight
Speaker 1: seven two two four fifty seventy Thanks for listening.
Speaker 2: See you tomorrow. Good Game, Jordan Chiles, Good.
Speaker 1: Game, Bald Eagle, you whoever hacked my Twitter account? Good
Speaker 1: Game with Sarah Spain is an iheartwomen's sports production in
Speaker 1: partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find
Speaker 1: us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or.
Speaker 2: Wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 1: Production by Wonder Media Network, our producers are Alex Azzi
Speaker 1: and Misha Jones. Our executive producers are Christina Everett, Jesse Katz,
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan.
Speaker 2: And Emily Rudder.
Speaker 1: Our editors are Jenny Kaplan, Emily Rudder, Bretney Martinez and
Speaker 1: Grace Lynch. Production assistants from Lucy Jones and I'm Your
Speaker 1: Host Sarah Spain