WEBVTT - Kurt Andersen & Josh Turek 0:00:00.640 --> 0:00:04.160 Hi, I'm Molly John Fast and this is Fast Politics, 0:00:04.360 --> 0:00:07.120 where we discussed the top political headlines with some of 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:13.240 today's best minds, and the US economy added nine hundred 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:17.279 and eleven thousand fewer jobs than previously reported in the 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:20.439 largest ever revision. We have such a great show for 0:00:20.520 --> 0:00:24.200 you today. Evil Genius' author Kurt Anderson stops by to 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:26.439 talk to us about how the nineties brought us the 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:30.120 deranged Republican nightmare we live through today. Then we'll talk 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.839 to Josh Touric about his run for the open Iowa 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:36.640 Senate seat. But first we have the stories the media 0:00:36.720 --> 0:00:37.240 is missing. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:41.000 My oh boy, it's a day. So I thought this 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:43.360 was really interesting. We've talked a lot about this character, 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.880 Bill Polti, who we haven't said much about before until 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.239 recent weeks. But the House is going to probe him. 0:00:49.280 --> 0:00:51.960 And I mean just yesterday there was reports that Scott 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.160 Bessett was going to well, he was going to be 0:00:54.200 --> 0:00:57.120 the sixth person that Scott besson threatened to punch. What 0:00:57.160 --> 0:00:58.720 do you see in here? This is wild? 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.800 Yeah, So I think we can all agree that as 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:06.880 much as a lot of us don't agree with Scott Bessant, 0:01:07.040 --> 0:01:11.119 Treasury secretary. We all respect his ability to get into 0:01:11.319 --> 0:01:16.399 physical violence. We certainly saw Scott Bessen had an altercation 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.600 with the Elon Musk. Now he has threatened to punch 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:25.840 Bill Pulty in the face. And Poulty is mostly famous 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:31.560 for running this very sleepy branch of government, the Trump administration. 0:01:31.840 --> 0:01:35.120 He's a housing official. But what I think is really 0:01:35.160 --> 0:01:38.840 interesting about him is that he's basically found all this 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:42.880 mortgage stuff. How he's found it, we don't know. So 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.560 he uses it against the president's enemies. So he used 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:51.760 it against Lisa Cook. He has used it against New 0:01:51.880 --> 0:01:56.360 York ag Tish James, so he basically trots us out. 0:01:56.440 --> 0:02:00.640 Now we have found that his parents use this using 0:02:00.720 --> 0:02:04.760 two houses. So basically Poulty had accused Cook of listing 0:02:04.760 --> 0:02:07.080 both a house in Michigan and a condo and Atlanta 0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:11.360 as a primary resident. Poultice's parents did this, And I 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.800 think the bigger question is why is he using this 0:02:15.960 --> 0:02:20.240 federal agency to investigate Donald Trump's enemies. I don't think 0:02:20.320 --> 0:02:23.440 any of this is legal. So let's see what happens here. 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:28.640 We got democrats. Raskin sent Pulty a letter. He demands 0:02:28.639 --> 0:02:33.280 that Pulty produce all records related to selective investigations. I 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:36.920 think this is really the way forward for Democrats that 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.520 the only way that anyone is ever going to take 0:02:40.560 --> 0:02:44.800 them seriously is if they do stuff like this, like 0:02:45.000 --> 0:02:48.839 they just push and push and push and hold these 0:02:48.840 --> 0:02:52.280 people accountable. So I think this is really good again, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.520 like we're seeing members of the House do this, We're 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.600 just not seeing it from leadership. And I wish we were. 0:03:00.560 --> 0:03:03.840 After the drawing of what we thought was going to 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:07.120 be a woman's body and now many interpretations say is 0:03:07.160 --> 0:03:11.359 a girl's body. On Trump's birthday letter to Epstein, we're 0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:14.400 thinking that this discharge petition might actually go through that 0:03:14.440 --> 0:03:16.440 Thomas Massey's pushing what do you see him? 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:19.160 So basically this is what they told me this whole 0:03:19.240 --> 0:03:22.600 time there comms people had said that there are two 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:25.600 Democratic seats that are going to be filled. One is 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:30.639 the seat in Virginia. That was Jerry Connolly's seat. You'll 0:03:30.680 --> 0:03:33.959 remember they put him as the head of Oversight instead 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:38.040 of AOC and then he died. But Democrats wanted because 0:03:38.080 --> 0:03:41.040 he had seniority, even though he had throw cancer, he 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.880 got the job even though he was in treatment, and 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:46.520 then he died. So that seat is now being filled, 0:03:46.600 --> 0:03:49.040 and then there's another seat that Democrats are going to get. 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:53.280 So even if Republicans don't do the right thing here 0:03:53.560 --> 0:03:56.520 and sign this discharge petition, they will get to the 0:03:56.640 --> 0:04:01.400 number in these special elections. So Johnson has already so 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:04.960 embarrassed himself with this story. He said that Donald Trump 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:07.960 was an FBI in format. There is no evidence to 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:11.880 support this that he was trying to shut down Epstein 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:15.480 from the inside. Mike Johnson walked it back. Always a 0:04:15.520 --> 0:04:18.400 great sign and always a little bit shocking when someone 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:22.960 from Trump World actually walks something back like amazing. But yeah, 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:24.040 walked it back. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.200 Yeah, I think it's pretty interesting. There's a lot of 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:28.159 Milton down there. 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:28.560 Yeah. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.200 Trump is still goetting to sue Rupert Murdoch for ten 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:36.080 trillion dollars because numbers, what do they mean? 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.159 Trump has never met a lawsuit he'll potentially lose that 0:04:39.200 --> 0:04:41.320 he doesn't like, so it really doesn't matter. 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:44.800 And also since numbers no longer have any meanings, Since 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:48.280 Trump is getting ten trillion dollars in tariffs, why not 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.080 sue Rubert Murdoch ten zillion dollars. 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:51.600 Yeah. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:54.479 People always say the thing is like Bennon's theory that 0:04:54.600 --> 0:04:56.320 you throw six things at the wall. 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:56.880 Esjra. 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.760 Trump had some really interesting comments about domess violence that 0:05:00.839 --> 0:05:03.800 really disturbed a lot of people, including me yesterday, A 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.800 level fight with the wife is a saying that you 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:09.400 don't want to see belittled in language. 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.600 Ever, this was actually pretty shocking when I saw it. 0:05:12.960 --> 0:05:17.039 Yet another moment where I was like, that can't be real. This, 0:05:17.040 --> 0:05:21.599 this is me, my sad gen X situation. That can't 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:24.800 be real, young gen X, I might add. Donald Trump 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:27.560 went to the Museum of the Bible, which I've actually 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:29.640 been to because one of my kids wanted to go. 0:05:29.839 --> 0:05:36.120 It was funded by the hobby lobby crew. Oh yes, yes, yeah, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:39.800 and it includes lots of artwork that some of which 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:43.919 is fake, some of which is looted antiquities, some of 0:05:43.960 --> 0:05:47.479 which is repurposed to be nonsense. But it's a very 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.720 interesting museum and everyone should go there. It's also free 0:05:50.760 --> 0:05:54.360 because they feel it is aligned with their mission. But anyway, 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.200 so Trump is in this museum giving a talk about 0:05:58.360 --> 0:06:01.320 religious tolerance. These are like he's trying to hit the 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:05.080 notes that get the base excited. So evangelicals are being 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:07.920 discriminated against is a big one, and he gets in 0:06:08.000 --> 0:06:12.000 it and he just starts musing and macking about domestic 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.560 violence and he calls it a little fight with the wife. 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:17.839 Real who amongst us energy. 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:20.800 Yeah, really does. And he says a little fight with 0:06:20.880 --> 0:06:24.280 the wife, and then he sort of goes into you know, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.799 why should the police be involved if you're just beating 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.400 up your wife. What I think is so interesting about 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.600 this moment that we're in is that Donald Trump is, 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.000 while he has captured all these institutions and we're such 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:43.640 a weak and soft country that we've sort of let 0:06:43.720 --> 0:06:46.440 him do whatever he wants to does, he's really still 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:49.760 got a sort of Shakespearean thing where he can't stop 0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.120 telling on himself, he can't stop sort of self destructing. 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:56.159 You know, there's a real lesson here about people getting 0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:58.480 what they want. I think this kind of stuff is 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:06.000 pretty interesting. I mean it's obviously quite disturbing. Kurt Anderson 0:07:06.080 --> 0:07:10.080 is the author of Evil Geniuses and Fantasy Land. Welcome 0:07:10.120 --> 0:07:12.280 to Fast Politics, Kurt Anderson. 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:14.480 Happy to be in Fast Politics once again. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:19.720 Every day is a greater descent into fantasy Land. I mean, 0:07:19.920 --> 0:07:25.080 it is the myths, the and also everything is nineteen 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.960 ninety four, forever and ever until we die. 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.239 Discuss I would give anything for it to be nineteen 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:31.920 ninety four again. 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:36.520 But you know, it certainly is the beginnings of ging 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:40.640 Rich and the descent of the Republican Party into that 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:43.040 the morass of the last thirty years. 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:46.200 Yeah, it is. It is. I mean in fantasy land. 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:48.440 And as long as we're talking about titles in my 0:07:48.520 --> 0:07:52.000 books Evil Guiniusness, which came afterwards, I really thought of 0:07:52.040 --> 0:07:56.400 them both as a double volume, the first one being Yes, 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:02.400 this longstanding American weakness for the excitingly untrue right. And 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.880 Donald Trump has embodied that. He came along just as 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.640 I was finishing that book, and it was like, you know, 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:11.400 I felt some guilt, like, oh, I have my poster 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.840 boy here for this, but he is so that and 0:08:15.800 --> 0:08:18.760 you know it was published in his first year, and 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:22.760 you know, the week after it was published, QAnon started. 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:26.160 And then there's Donald Trump lying about everything and building 0:08:26.440 --> 0:08:28.800 this movement, this true movement. You can unders states that 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:33.480 of people who who share, you know, not a coherent ideality. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.520 That's the thing, right, It's interesting they share all kinds 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:40.600 of fantasies and conspiracy theories in the Bobby Kennedy flavor 0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.200 and the government's taking over this or that, you know, 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:45.760 and and and just the inconsistency and incoherence of it 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:49.000 all is phenomenal. And you know, people keep saying, oh, 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:51.360 you should update it, right anew and well, no, it's 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.520 just there, it is. I mean, you know, I could 0:08:53.559 --> 0:08:57.800 devote my entire life to doing a daily thing about it. No, 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:01.679 it's it's nuts. And and I don't know what to say, 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.600 you know, and I keep waiting for enough people to 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.080 have since slapped into them. And I think, as I 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.680 talk about in fantasy land, when the economics go wrong 0:09:09.760 --> 0:09:12.320 as they did in two thousand and eight, right, you 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:16.000 can't pretend there's not a giant, great recession. You can't 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.959 pretend prices aren't going up, you can't pretend the economy 0:09:20.120 --> 0:09:23.120 is now starting to go into recession, so that there 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:28.240 is the reality slap of economic reality, which at this point, 0:09:28.320 --> 0:09:32.480 you know, I guess I'm depending on because in political terms, 0:09:32.679 --> 0:09:35.600 because he can't wish that away. They can't wish that away. 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.319 And just as you know, not to compare it to 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:42.640 Joe Biden, but just as we the Biden and Democrats 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:44.839 can say, oh no, the inflation is really yeah, it's 0:09:44.840 --> 0:09:47.560 going away. It's Okay, shit, you know you're not feeling it. Well, 0:09:47.720 --> 0:09:50.040 people didn't buy hat and they're not going to buy this. 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.600 And more than more than ever again my hope, I 0:09:53.640 --> 0:09:57.800 always find the glimmers of hope and green shoes. You know, 0:09:58.080 --> 0:10:01.599 this is so clearly and so undern mily his he 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.800 still occasionally tries as, oh, no, it's Biden. I'm I 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:08.440 heerd Biden. You didn't. Terrorists are years, you know, all 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:11.600 all of its years, the the the you know, this 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:15.640 radical change in the labor market, apart from the grotesque 0:10:15.880 --> 0:10:20.280 street thug fascism of the master importations, you know, all 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:21.839 of it is going to is going to be his 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:25.120 and and uh you know, I mean I was already 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.920 hopeful about the midterms, and and the timing of the 0:10:28.200 --> 0:10:33.280 of the economic wreckage looks just great for politically speaking, 0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:37.559 you know, a year from now it's going to be terrible. 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:41.120 So that's my failing. But as you said that, you're 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:44.800 framing the descent into fantasy land and the degree to 0:10:44.840 --> 0:10:47.960 which the evil geniuses, which is to say, rich people 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:52.640 and corporate ba by and large and the elected Republicans 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:56.080 in Washington have all all you know, as we know 0:10:56.720 --> 0:11:02.080 ninety six percent of them absolutely bought in and hope 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:04.600 there will be a price to pay, because and I 0:11:04.600 --> 0:11:06.000 think there will be. And I think this is not 0:11:06.040 --> 0:11:08.600 going to last forever anymore. I say to myself, not 0:11:08.640 --> 0:11:10.600 off in a public anymore than it did in Germany. 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:12.560 We just got to keep as nearly as we can 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:16.560 shouting the truth in you know, non hair on fire. 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:21.040 But it's extreme and it's not normal. And what it's 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:22.800 going to take all kinds of new things, whether it's 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:25.319 letting the government shut down in a couple of weeks 0:11:25.400 --> 0:11:28.040 or or whatever it is to it's a new ball game. 0:11:28.200 --> 0:11:29.080 It's a new ball game. 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:30.080 Yeah. 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:31.120 That's where I have to say. 0:11:31.200 --> 0:11:33.480 I'd love you to talk about the Birthday Book, because 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:37.480 the Birthday Book feels like something that I mean, it can't. 0:11:37.559 --> 0:11:41.200 You know, it was put together in the nineties, early 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:46.680 two thousands, right before Epstein's first arrest, right when he 0:11:46.760 --> 0:11:49.280 gets this got the Sweetheart deal, which was two thousand 0:11:49.280 --> 0:11:52.720 and four. But it exists in this time. I mean, 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:55.280 what I think is so interesting about what I've seen 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.120 of it so far is that you know, there's stuff 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.800 from Trump, there's stuff from Less Wexler, there's stuff from 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:07.439 dersh weed. There's you know, it feels like another world. 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:12.040 You know it does. And I said to my wife, 0:12:12.120 --> 0:12:16.440 yesterd boy, there there was this parallel, dirty, rich universe 0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:20.280 going on in our midst and we're just you know, 0:12:20.920 --> 0:12:23.760 Pollyanna innocence. Yes, it does feel like you know the world. 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:25.400 But I don't think it is another world. I think 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.679 that world exists in different form right now, and it's 0:12:29.080 --> 0:12:32.600 tooner layer it will be exposed too. No, I don't 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:35.559 you know it is. It is of another time because 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:38.800 of the names and less West and Alan Dershowitz and 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:44.000 all the rest are everybody except Donald Trump are gone 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:48.960 more or less. The entitlement is still absolutely there. And 0:12:49.000 --> 0:12:51.320 I see I still see that. I mean, and and 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.840 I would say, I mean obviously the great wealth and 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.720 I can do anything because I'm rich. Thing is here 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:02.359 more than ever. And I see not Epstein, sex trafficking, 0:13:02.640 --> 0:13:05.000 examples of it all over all the time, but but 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:09.079 similar things. It's just as grotesque. The thing about that too, 0:13:09.240 --> 0:13:11.200 I mean again in terms of in terms of just 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:16.480 the delusional or welly and fantasy. The denial yesterday by 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:19.600 the the you know, Deputy White House Chiefs and Staff 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.440 in charge of comms and by the Press Secretary of like, no, no, no, 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:26.440 look these things obviously aren't his. Well, they look just 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:28.920 like the ones you were showing. And they look just 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:33.120 like the ones I have in my personal files. First 0:13:33.160 --> 0:13:35.760 of all, and and and then the Wall Street Journal, 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:36.760 which in it's. 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:41.400 By the famous liberal famous. 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:48.800 Are analyzing why the signature looks is the same, Why, yes, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.120 he looked at all these drawings he's done. Yes, look 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:52.800 at all the times he's used enigmental. 0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:55.440 You know, it's just like boom boom boom, like this 0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:59.959 forensic spy magazine, like tickdown that is fantastic, you know, 0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.400 good for in his ya last days alive. 0:14:03.679 --> 0:14:06.600 Yeah, as he's he ruined the country, but he's getting 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:08.640 his last licks and at Donald Trump. 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:12.240 So anyway something and again you know, and and and 0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:15.280 what's her name? Carolyne Lovett said no, and the Wall 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.360 Street Journal story proves this has all been false. Uh no, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:22.880 it proves the opposite. So anyway it is. It is remarkable, 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.120 and it's you know, I remember, you know, speaking of 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.120 the nineties. I don't know, you may be too young, 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:29.720 remember bag Dad Bob during the war. 0:14:30.040 --> 0:14:31.080 But that's what this is. 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:36.880 The embodiment of like, no, no, they're not. The Americans 0:14:36.880 --> 0:14:41.920 are nowhere in there. We're fine, We're good. That's all right, 0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:44.960 we'll see. I mean, and and and again that you 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:47.920 can't make it up daily thing like oh, we're gonna 0:14:47.920 --> 0:14:51.320 make We're gonna make Eric Adams, Mayor of New York, 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:55.120 get out of the way for Andrew Cuomo by making 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.040 him the ambassador to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. 0:14:58.640 --> 0:15:02.440 I mean, I amazing, amaze, and. 0:15:02.400 --> 0:15:05.240 Man, that would be a great reality show, yes, but 0:15:05.400 --> 0:15:08.960 it's just it is astonishing. And you know, and as 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.240 I said, so let's well the mom Donnie thing, is 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:11.600 it glimo? 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:15.640 Yeah, but let's I want to stay on this idea 0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.040 that the world that we're living in right now is 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:23.200 created in the nineties, because I actually think it was 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:27.520 a lot of the people who are funding this presidency 0:15:27.880 --> 0:15:32.080 or running this White House are creatures of that world. 0:15:32.200 --> 0:15:35.360 And I think of like Susie Wild who came up 0:15:35.440 --> 0:15:40.120 under Bush too. You know, Donald Trump obviously most of 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.800 his friends and the people around him, And I just 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.520 wonder if you know the the thing that made Trump 0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:49.720 and the thing you know, I was talking to someone 0:15:49.760 --> 0:15:53.400 who knew him and had talked to him pretty recently 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.040 and said that one of the things he spends the 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:58.800 most time worrying about is is this breaking through? Like 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.480 are people watching? Are people seeing me? Are people right? 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.840 Am I getting the airtime? Is it being shown now? 0:16:06.040 --> 0:16:11.360 Because he's right, he's still thinking about like traditional linear 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:15.280 television and not necessarily where a lot of people are. 0:16:15.680 --> 0:16:19.000 But I think that you know, he was at the 0:16:19.200 --> 0:16:23.520 US Open yesterday, He is at He is trying to 0:16:23.520 --> 0:16:26.640 be at every sporting event. He wants to have USC 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:31.640 fighters on the on the lawn of the White House. 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.880 And I just wonder if you could talk about this 0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:40.360 idea of being downstream of culture and how Donald Trump 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.760 learned that and how that equates the nineties. 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:47.760 Well, he is was and is a show business person. 0:16:48.000 --> 0:16:51.320 Right when he was somebody in real estate, he said, oh, 0:16:51.400 --> 0:16:54.520 I'm I'm you know, sixty years ago, more than six 0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:56.840 years ago, he said, I was thinking about getting into 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.440 show business and producing Broadway plays and stuff. But I'm 0:16:59.440 --> 0:17:01.040 going to do I went to be in real estate 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:05.119 and make that show business too. And as I've written about, 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:10.840 you know, it was in this long, perfectly calibrated timed 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.479 way to do what has always been done in America, 0:17:13.520 --> 0:17:16.280 which is everything is show business, you know, I mean, 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.119 religion was show business in the United States, or in 0:17:19.200 --> 0:17:22.440 America before it's the United States unlike anywhere else, and 0:17:22.520 --> 0:17:26.720 everything and every you know, Buffalo Bill, all of it 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:31.320 was show business. And you know, presidential politics had started 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:33.879 that becoming how with television and then Robt Reagan and 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:38.200 then up to Donald Trump. And he was perfectly positioned 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:42.760 to do that. And so being a WWE famous guy 0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.720 before he was you know, I mean, that was as 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:49.560 important a part of his fame in the nineteen nineties 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.760 as anything else. You know, then came apprentice orything and 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.280 playing the character that this character against that rival evil 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:00.520 character and just doing whatever it took to make people 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:03.480 watch and cheer and like, Okay, they know it's a fake, 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:07.280 but but like, well, we still like it, right, And 0:18:07.640 --> 0:18:09.840 to bring that to make our politics, at least our 0:18:09.880 --> 0:18:14.080 Republican politics, at least his unique and singular version of 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:18.880 politics that was, you know, I mean, it's like a 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:24.000 wild movie, a piece of satire, might judge idiocracy thing 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.720 that a novel I wrote in nineteen ninety nine about 0:18:27.920 --> 0:18:31.520 the murder of reality and and and and television and 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.359 it's it's it's just come true. So yes, the seeds 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.360 robbed too laid there. And of course all of these 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:39.160 people too, just because of their age, because they're you know, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:41.720 the nineties, people were still young enough to now be 0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:44.560 compositions of power. But so many of these people, of course, 0:18:44.560 --> 0:18:47.119 were not in politics at all. I mean, Bobby Kennedy 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:49.520 of the nineties was still you know, a drug addict 0:18:49.600 --> 0:18:52.520 and a failed and a failed district attorney who had 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:58.359 then become apparently a legit environmental lawyer and stuff. But yeah, 0:18:58.440 --> 0:19:01.080 I mean, but again there the why is he there 0:19:01.280 --> 0:19:05.640 because his last name is Kennedy? Period and destroyed? Why 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:09.199 is our public health system being destroyed? And and and 0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.040 years and years of important all kinds of medical and 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.720 other scientific work being destroyed because this kid, my cocaine 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:21.800 dealer's name is Kennedy. And again it's this crazy you know, 0:19:21.960 --> 0:19:25.320 celebrity tale wagging the dog of the republic in a 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:30.199 way that yes, it begs all understanding. 0:19:30.680 --> 0:19:34.760 Right there, There is an attention to brands, an attention 0:19:35.000 --> 0:19:39.560 to names that is very Trumpian, right. I also think 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.320 that RFK, that was the way he appealed to women voters, 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:47.840 was that he saw that they were Trump friendly women 0:19:48.000 --> 0:19:53.240 voters who liked Maha and who thought Maha was somehow 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:57.240 something that would solve their problems. And I think there 0:19:57.359 --> 0:20:03.959 is also a sort of post COVID emotional meltdown that 0:20:04.000 --> 0:20:05.560 has happened in our country that. 0:20:07.400 --> 0:20:11.720 More the COVID, I think the effects obvious and less 0:20:11.720 --> 0:20:14.840 of this of COVID are still with us and messing 0:20:14.880 --> 0:20:16.760 with all kinds of in them. 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.320 Have Maha without COVID. 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:23.800 Absolutely, And you know, speaking of Maha, and you know, 0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.320 almost everyone I know says, well, there are a lot 0:20:26.359 --> 0:20:28.399 of things about Earth. There are some things aboubby Kennedy. 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:31.119 Yes he's a nut, yes he's yes, yes he's destroying science. 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:34.040 But there's things he says that if you just did those, 0:20:34.400 --> 0:20:37.199 you know whatever, taking chemicals out of food, you know, 0:20:37.320 --> 0:20:41.640 taking pharmaceutical prescription, pharmaceutical lives off television, all on there. 0:20:41.640 --> 0:20:44.200 There are things like yeah, sure, if that's Maha, I'm 0:20:44.200 --> 0:20:48.840 down with it, until you get into no, all vaccines 0:20:48.880 --> 0:20:51.280 are bad and and I should be able to not 0:20:51.320 --> 0:20:53.399 take vaccines if I want all that and tell you 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:57.480 into the craziness that there's there's you know, saying Maha 0:20:57.600 --> 0:21:03.800 and and simply like California, you know, healthiness and and 0:21:03.800 --> 0:21:07.879 and then there's insanity and and you know you I 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:10.320 think it's important to distinguish those and and make make 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:14.760 the people who were attracted to the right reasonable part 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:18.080 of it. Like I understand like this guy is uh, 0:21:18.560 --> 0:21:20.239 you know is I mean, you're going to make your 0:21:20.280 --> 0:21:23.280 kids die and make us make make your parents die. 0:21:23.840 --> 0:21:26.919 I mean the best example of them how craziness is 0:21:26.960 --> 0:21:31.720 Florida where they're where they're no longer making kids get vaccinated. 0:21:31.920 --> 0:21:33.960 I mean that is an intense. 0:21:33.760 --> 0:21:36.840 And again it takes a while. You know, the herd, 0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.840 the immune herd has protected everybody for so long they 0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:44.040 they forget if they ever knew or ever understood that 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:49.080 that's what That's why people didn't get these horrible, deadly child. 0:21:49.040 --> 0:21:52.440 We're going to see bad, bad stuff happen real soon, 0:21:52.560 --> 0:21:55.600 do you think. Like one of the things that I 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.600 often think to myself is like, we are actually hurtling 0:21:58.640 --> 0:22:01.920 towards disaster pretty and the question. 0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:04.840 Is which disaster or disasters are we hurtling toward. Yeah, 0:22:04.880 --> 0:22:07.480 and I don't know how quickly, but and I don't 0:22:07.520 --> 0:22:09.880 like it. You know, it's like one of these numbers 0:22:09.920 --> 0:22:14.840 is going to come up, and whether it's unnecessarily uncontrolled epidemics, well, 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:16.120 god knows, I don't need. 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.600 To, right, it doesn't matter. But you can see that 0:22:18.680 --> 0:22:22.320 we're hurtling towards something bad. The lack of regulation when 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:27.760 it comes to stable coin, the disassembling our security. I mean, like, 0:22:28.160 --> 0:22:32.200 clearly something catastrophic is we're hurdling towards. 0:22:32.600 --> 0:22:35.959 Well, it's a reasonable bet. Unfortunately, I think it is. 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:40.040 Lenin famously said, and is you know, the worse the better, 0:22:40.080 --> 0:22:42.360 you know, you get things terrible, and then the revolution 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:46.119 will come. I've never been there. Yeah, but this is 0:22:46.160 --> 0:22:48.840 not going to end well, it just is not going 0:22:48.880 --> 0:22:52.320 to end well. I hope you know, whatever disaster comes, 0:22:52.960 --> 0:22:56.600 it's it's not so existential that it can't be recovered. 0:22:56.200 --> 0:22:59.159 From the thing that I am stressedtruck by is like 0:22:59.280 --> 0:23:04.400 we have government. Government is good and does things for people, 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:08.320