WEBVTT - Classic Replay | Music Saved Me with Sam Hollander 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:02.880 Music Saved Me. I tell kids all the time whenever 0:00:02.880 --> 0:00:05.840 I meete a kid, you know, and it's how do 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:07.960 I get into this business? Bud, I say the same thing. 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:09.560 It's like the look if you ever wake up one 0:00:09.600 --> 0:00:13.320 morning and you have a strange fascination with, you know, arugula, 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:15.560 and you think to yourself, God, I could market the 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.079 world's greatest arugula. I can make a strain that's like 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:21.400 hybrid arugular or something, and every Whole Foods and Trader 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.040 Joe's will be all over it. Go make your damn arugula, 0:00:24.079 --> 0:00:25.640 because this is brutal. 0:00:25.760 --> 0:00:29.240 I'm Lynn Hoffman, and welcome to the Music Saved Me Podcast, 0:00:29.440 --> 0:00:32.519 the podcast where we explore the power of music to 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:37.040 heal and help anyone in need. On this episode, a 0:00:37.240 --> 0:00:40.960 brilliant songwriter, producer, and musician who has worked with an 0:00:41.040 --> 0:00:45.800 incredible dare I say almost unbelievable roster of stars from 0:00:45.840 --> 0:00:49.400 just about every musical genre, ranging from Panic at the Disco, 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:55.840 One Direction, Katie Perry, Billy Idel, Weezer, Blues Traveler, Macklemore, 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.279 Train ringo Star. I could probably keep going and then 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.080 the podcast would be over and he wouldn't even be 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:05.160 able to talk. He's also a massive supporter of the 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:08.760 incredible organization known as Musicians on Call, which we are 0:01:09.000 --> 0:01:12.759 as well. Welcome Sam Hollander, Welcome to music. 0:01:12.840 --> 0:01:18.560 See hey, apologize and advance for any barking dogs or sneezing. 0:01:18.680 --> 0:01:21.480 But that's okay. Pollen count, the pollen count is not 0:01:21.480 --> 0:01:23.360 working my favorite this hour. But I do believe in 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:24.920 the potential of zertech. 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:27.680 So let's go aga and greatness, which you are? All right, Well, 0:01:27.720 --> 0:01:31.080 let's just jump right in, okay, Sam. Do you believe 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:37.000 music and songs have supernatural healing powers for those with mental, physical, 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:39.000 or say emotional problems? 0:01:39.880 --> 0:01:40.080 Oh? 0:01:40.120 --> 0:01:43.720 Absolutely. You know I've always, uh, I've always used music 0:01:43.760 --> 0:01:46.200 as a form of catharsist for myself, both my own 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:49.760 art and also you know, as a fan growing up. 0:01:49.840 --> 0:01:54.000 I mean, you know, as a child, I always felt misunderstood, 0:01:54.000 --> 0:01:57.200 as we all do in those years, and so music 0:01:57.360 --> 0:01:59.800 was this sort of the soundtrack to the unrequited for me. 0:02:00.280 --> 0:02:03.640 So whatever I was spiraling in my psyche, up and 0:02:03.680 --> 0:02:06.160 down and up and down, music was the one thing 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:10.480 that elevated me. And you know, I think one of 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.480 the what really attracts me to music as a songwriter. 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.720 One thing that really dig is the notion that I 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:20.040 can provide sort of uplifting, sort of aspirational stuff that 0:02:20.440 --> 0:02:23.720 I really write for myself because I'm just trying to 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:26.480 stitch any broken mechanisms inside of myself, you know. But 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.680 at the same time, I do think that if it 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.160 reacts and I've you know, maybe altered someone's day the 0:02:33.240 --> 0:02:35.760 slightest bit, it's a great job in the world, you know. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:43.360 Absolutely. Is there a specific litmus test or for example, 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.600 when you're writing or producing a song and you're arranging 0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.320 the music, is there a place where you can tell 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.360 that you're going to evoke a certain emotion in someone? 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:55.200 Is that is that the secret sauce? Is there a 0:02:55.240 --> 0:02:55.919 secret sauce? 0:02:56.080 --> 0:02:59.200 Yeah, I think there's some sort of galvanic response that happens. 0:02:59.320 --> 0:03:01.520 Right the songs that I think, at least in my 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:04.639 in my life that have h have raised their hands 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:06.880 and sort of done something and maybe actualized in a 0:03:07.000 --> 0:03:10.600 shape or form, I would say I always I always 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:12.880 knew that there was something there. I don't think I've 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:16.320 ever really been surprised, And it's sort of hard to 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.640 articulate what the what the special sauce is. You're just 0:03:20.280 --> 0:03:23.120 there's a feeling in the room when the melody and 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.240 the lyric sort of twists their way around a chord 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:29.600 and it just hits and you feel that a motive moment. 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.680 I remember this song, this Kidna in banners from London 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:37.040 via Canada or Canada via London. There we go and 0:03:37.600 --> 0:03:39.720 you know, he came to the studio and we wrote 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:43.680 a song called someone to You. It's Me. This is 0:03:43.720 --> 0:03:47.720 Michael's Me, Michael and Grant. Michael's strange. But what was 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.360 so interesting about it is I knew by the time 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:53.080 we landed the chorus that the song was special and 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:55.440 it had the deck stack against it was one of 0:03:55.440 --> 0:03:56.840 those songs. This was not gonna be a lay up 0:03:56.920 --> 0:04:00.000 new artists, no real backstory to date, blah blah blah. 0:04:00.080 --> 0:04:03.000 But there was something about it that just you could 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.400 just feel emotively that this was going to just, you know, 0:04:06.240 --> 0:04:09.840 elevate someone's daily experience. And that's what we do. You know, 0:04:10.200 --> 0:04:13.320 I don't write a lot of dark stuff because truthfully, 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:16.000 the world is as complex and messy as it is. 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.680 I don't think I need to be another voice sort 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.280 of harping on that. I'd rather just try to, you know, 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.680 up put a little bit of a little bit of 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.279 positive energy out there. Even I like the sweet and sour, 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:29.520 and sometimes I get my little jabs and my little 0:04:29.800 --> 0:04:31.719 you know, steely dan guy. Right. So I grew up 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.880 listening to doll Fagan with all the yah, with all 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:37.680 the you know, with all the the little you know, 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:39.880 the little jabs that he was able to work into 0:04:39.880 --> 0:04:42.039 songs that were jazzy, but yet the core were so 0:04:42.240 --> 0:04:45.040 dark and sort of interesting and funny. I like humor 0:04:45.040 --> 0:04:47.479 in my music, but at the same time, it's gotta 0:04:47.600 --> 0:04:49.280 you know, I wanted to at the end of the day, 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.680 I wanted to, you know, stay somewhat aspirational or something 0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:53.279 to that effect. 0:04:53.680 --> 0:04:56.040 Well, you know, interesting, speaking of that, what what would 0:04:56.080 --> 0:04:59.800 go through your mind during those moments when something that 0:04:59.839 --> 0:05:04.320 you were involved with so intimately to create impact someone 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:07.840 in in such a in a positive way or an 0:05:07.839 --> 0:05:08.599 emotional way. 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:13.480 Well, when like people, uh slide into my dms, the 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:19.480 youth says, and they dip into my dams. It's invariably 0:05:19.520 --> 0:05:22.560 a really beautiful note and it's very sweet, and it's 0:05:22.600 --> 0:05:25.960 somebody who was affected and they sort of tell that, 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:27.680 you know, the given narrative, and they tell me how 0:05:27.680 --> 0:05:30.760 it affected them, and it's it's incredible, Like you know what, 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:33.479 there there are many jobs that you know, they're they're 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:36.480 all these there are all these incredible jobs and vocations 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:40.320 that bring tons of joy to people, and it's just 0:05:40.440 --> 0:05:42.279 nice to know that music can be one of them. 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:46.000 You know, the music can sort of affect the psyche 0:05:46.040 --> 0:05:48.520 in that way. And you know, so I'm always very 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.679 moved to be upset, honest with you, it's very uh, 0:05:51.120 --> 0:05:53.400 it's it's humbling, and it's you know, it just it 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:54.960 makes me want to get up and write in another one. 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.279 You know, in what way do you do you feel 0:05:57.320 --> 0:06:00.680 that music gives people hope? And have you ever personally 0:06:01.320 --> 0:06:05.559 used music to help yourself through? Say it difficult, Lina? 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:07.640 Did you see what I look like? Right? So? It 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.599 was an a handsome guy. No, I was uphill battle 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:13.039 from birth. And I will tell you and you know, 0:06:13.560 --> 0:06:18.400 in the Canadian days, in these in my formative years, 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.480 I uh, you know, I think I modeled myself ester 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:25.120 sort of a slightly more muscle bound version of John 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:27.320 Cryer as Ducky, you know. And I had the pork 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.040 pie hats, and I had vadoras and I had all 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.520 these things, and I was a strange character, you know, 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.600 who was so lost. And I think the if I 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:38.080 were to find myself through four years of high school 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:43.159 beyond uh, you know, academically challenged, I would say, you know, 0:06:43.400 --> 0:06:47.600 it was just one unrequited relationship after another, and you know, 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.320 music got me through it. Like I said, music was 0:06:50.400 --> 0:06:54.200 that it answered the questions. I felt like every lyricist 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:58.719 before me sort of paved a path. And you know, 0:06:58.720 --> 0:07:01.240 I would listen to the torture of or Robert Smith, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:04.640 or I would listen to, you know, the playfulness of 0:07:04.680 --> 0:07:08.440 Tropical Quester Dea La Soul and r Em was my 0:07:08.440 --> 0:07:09.920 favorite band of all, and I didn't even know what 0:07:09.960 --> 0:07:12.760 he was saying, but it just I liked the word 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.360 play and it sounded interesting. But I would play almost 0:07:15.960 --> 0:07:18.640 it was almost like Jenga lyrically, right, so it is 0:07:18.680 --> 0:07:21.200 where you what's the one where you mad lips, mad lips. 0:07:21.200 --> 0:07:23.239 It's almost like madlips right where. I would take types 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:24.640 of lyrics I had no idea was saying, so I 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.920 would just figure out and just guess them. To me, 0:07:27.000 --> 0:07:30.400 they were all torture. Bob Mould Hohoscredoo was probably my 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.800 favorite lyricist in high school was probably between Fagan and 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:37.600 Mold and I think both they were great. They were great. 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.720 They were great at chronicling the teen experience and sort 0:07:40.720 --> 0:07:43.080 of growing up and coming of age and cities and 0:07:43.120 --> 0:07:47.280 things like that, and you know it, so I would say, 0:07:47.600 --> 0:07:50.640 you know, that got me through and I whenever I 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:54.520 meet somebody who was sort of is so embedded in 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:57.960 my mental playlist. I fanboy at such a level because 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.720 I just can't believe that these pay the way and 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:04.120 I'm just lucky to have hitched on the bandwagon. It's awesome, 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:04.800 the best. 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:07.680 So what do you think the world would look like 0:08:08.120 --> 0:08:11.760 without music? I know that's a well big question. 0:08:12.960 --> 0:08:16.760 What do the kids call them NPCs? You know, not 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:19.760 like non playing character or whatever. It's a video game 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:22.680 term about being very basic. The world would be very basic. 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:25.840 It's like it's the color and it's the colorful characters 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:29.400 and you know, look, music to me was the original 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.920 short form content, right. It was just three minutes of perfection. 0:08:33.000 --> 0:08:34.960 I was never a prog guy, right because prog came 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:36.920 along and with these songs are twenty five minutes long. 0:08:37.120 --> 0:08:38.800 You know, I wanted to do anything to do with 0:08:38.840 --> 0:08:40.840 this let's let's whack it down and make it you know, 0:08:41.040 --> 0:08:44.480 two minutes and forty seconds of July. But I don't. 0:08:44.600 --> 0:08:49.040 I just I can't envision it because it's been embedded 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.560 in my DNA since I was three. When I, you know, 0:08:51.600 --> 0:08:55.840 I was listening to Blossom Deary records with my mom. 0:08:55.920 --> 0:08:58.560 She was a big Blossom Deary fan, and we would 0:08:58.559 --> 0:09:00.480 sit and listen to these like vocal jazz records. That 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:01.959 was three or four, and I just loved what was 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:05.400 going on melodically, Gateway to Magic by Pilot, you know, 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.640 better known as the Ozembic song. No, it's obviously that's 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:13.199 where people really it's really caught on a magical single. 0:09:13.240 --> 0:09:14.679 But that was the first single I ever dug, and 0:09:14.720 --> 0:09:16.760 I grew up on all this k Tel stuff and 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:20.240 then that morphed into all these genres and they're all, 0:09:20.360 --> 0:09:22.680 you know, I just can't imagine life without them. I mean, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:24.880 you know, the first thing I do when I get 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.679 in the car is turn on Serious. The first thing 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:30.120 I do, you know or Z one hundred? My man 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:34.800 Maxwell like that? Shat uh, my man Maxwell. He gave 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.360 me a hug. It's very sweet guy, very sweet. 0:09:37.720 --> 0:09:39.240 When you were younger or older? 0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.439 Oh, no, like four days ago. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:45.280 Are you sure you're not also a comedian on the side. 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:45.559 Oh? 0:09:46.720 --> 0:09:48.120 Is that a part of writing is that you have 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:49.000 really good timing? 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:53.400 No matter what, it's not me, it's the decongestent. 0:09:52.880 --> 0:09:57.680 All right, that's rights zertech. How did you first become 0:09:57.760 --> 0:10:01.360 associated with the fine folks at Musicians on Call? And 0:10:02.080 --> 0:10:05.800 if you wouldn't mind indulging us on what it was 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.240 like witnessing firsthand being involved. 0:10:08.840 --> 0:10:13.000 With Well, it's funny. I go back to the early 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.600 days of the organization because I was started by Victuari 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.680 and Michael Solomon, who were people unknown socially since we 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.800 were all in our twenties together, mid twenties. I remember 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:28.280 when they launched, and you know, it's a very kooky story. 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.679 I loved their mission. I support it completely, but I 0:10:31.760 --> 0:10:35.400 wasn't necessarily involved boots on on the ground. And then 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:37.439 when my father was in his last days, he was 0:10:37.440 --> 0:10:43.200 at Mount sign I in the cancer word, and I 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:45.320 went to visit him one day and I heard an 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:48.559 acoustic guitar in the next room, and I peeked around 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.000 the corner and there was a man who was easily 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.160 and octagenarian to put it mildly strumming acoustic, and it 0:10:54.160 --> 0:10:56.079 looked like one of these old Greenwich village folkcats that 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.400 you see in documentaries, you know. And he was playing 0:10:58.400 --> 0:11:00.280 for a woman who had to be nine the thing. 0:11:01.240 --> 0:11:03.080 And when he finished, he walked down the hall and 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:04.760 I said, you know, I'm so sorry to bother you, 0:11:04.800 --> 0:11:08.000 but uh, what's your story? Are you related or whatever? 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:09.760 And he said no, he said, I'm with the charity 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:12.880 musicians on call. And I had chills because I really 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:17.160 felt that that moment had just been completely placed there 0:11:17.240 --> 0:11:19.400 from some weird divine spirit. It just didn't make it. 0:11:19.720 --> 0:11:21.480 It just was so one. It was. It was a 0:11:21.559 --> 0:11:24.599 one in a million moments. So I instantly got involved, 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:26.559 and I got on the advisory board and I'm on 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:29.720 the board of directors. And look, you know, uh, we 0:11:29.840 --> 0:11:32.840 visited patients with my Christmas band, the Band of Merrymakers, 0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:35.240 and we performed at hospitals on both coasts. We wrote 0:11:35.280 --> 0:11:40.640 original songs with kids and it's it's the heaviest work 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.880 I've ever done. Nothing competes with it. It's uh, it's a 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:47.280 labor of love. And there, you know, when you talk 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.959 about how music impacts people, it's the most powerful thing 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.720 in the world. You can see it just manages stress 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:55.880 and alleviating pain and improving blood pressure and all these 0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.840 it's just scientific information. You just know it. It's true. Music, 0:11:59.280 --> 0:12:02.600 you know, is therapeutic, and so to play a role 0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:07.800 in that is it's incredible, absolutely incredible. I absolutely adore 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:11.480 the organization and top to bottom also probably the nicest 0:12:11.520 --> 0:12:14.040 people I've ever worked with an a capacity. If Record 0:12:14.120 --> 0:12:17.640 Labels had the energy of MOC, we'd be in to 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:18.480 be a better world. 0:12:19.000 --> 0:12:22.400 So it's there there. We love them and we're so 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:27.160 grateful that they're a part of our world because it 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:29.200 just makes me feel like, although I can't do what 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.360 you do, at least I can talk about it and 0:12:32.400 --> 0:12:33.000 spread the word. 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.240 Look, then the truth is, no one really needs to 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:39.160 see me perform, right, It's like my charm is behind 0:12:39.160 --> 0:12:43.480 a curtain. But if my words and you know, we 0:12:43.520 --> 0:12:45.760 can sing Christmas songs and do things like that, and 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:47.880 if I can help with awareness and I can get 0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:51.319 my friends to play at Christmas show, et cetera, it's really, uh, 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.000 I don't know. I feel like I feel like I'm 0:12:54.080 --> 0:12:58.280 doing I'm doing the right thing. Yeah, you want, I'm 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:02.079 paying something forward. That, you know, I'm proud. It's great. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.880 Besides the fact learning that you were babysat for a 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.800 short amount of time by Andy Warhol, which obviously is 0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:11.840 a story for another time. I also read that your 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:16.880 uncle was a famous American poet and literary critic named 0:13:17.000 --> 0:13:19.600 John Hollander, and I read that you once said that 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.760 you didn't often connect with him when you were growing up. 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.520 And it seems strange to me, because you would think 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:28.560 writing would be hereditary and that everyone would just automatically 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.600 know having an uncle like that, Did you ever connect 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:34.760 with him? And if so, was music the connector eventually? 0:13:35.320 --> 0:13:37.640 Uh? No, it was Yankee baseball? 0:13:37.760 --> 0:13:42.480 But uh oh interesting, Yeah, you know, John was a 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:44.920 you know, I came from a very strange family pictures 0:13:44.960 --> 0:13:48.160 sort of the royal tantembaumbs or something to that effect, 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:51.760 where you know, my dad was an incredible modern dancer 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:54.240 with those Ala Loane professional at eighteen and then went 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:56.760 back to school architect with Philip Johnson, did all this 0:13:56.840 --> 0:13:58.839 mid century modern stuff, and then a professor for the 0:13:58.880 --> 0:13:59.640 rest of his life. 0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.199 Mom working with Warhol and writing for Interview magazine. She's 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.040 the home first and I believe only female sports writer 0:14:07.240 --> 0:14:10.080 ever for Interview magazine because in the midst of some 0:14:10.120 --> 0:14:12.319 sort of psychotic breakdown, she said, I want to write 0:14:12.360 --> 0:14:15.199 about sports and the psychology behind sports because I just 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.440 don't get this. And I think Gandy was puzzled, but 0:14:17.800 --> 0:14:19.440 let her run with it. So that was neat. And 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.680 you know, everyone in my family had a realer We 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.320 all had artistic bents of different sorts, you know, And 0:14:26.040 --> 0:14:28.240 you know with John, I mean John was you know, 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.760 my parents were so heady, my uncle was so hetty, 0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:33.160 and it was sometimes hard to connect with him because, 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.600 like I said, I was so massively adhd in a 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.680 time of the eighties when we didn't know what that was. 0:14:38.320 --> 0:14:41.320 It was so you were just deemed a colossal screw up. 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:43.120 And what happens with that, of course, it's a self 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:46.000 defeating prophecy, right you start to believe I become it, 0:14:46.040 --> 0:14:47.800 I manifested. You want to screw up, I'll be as 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:49.920 screw up. So graduate at the bottom of my high 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.120 school three colleges and two semesters, which I still believe 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:55.680 is very hard to pull off. Yeah, that's a flex 0:14:55.840 --> 0:15:00.240 you know, and I just, uh, it was, uh so 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.440 it would be it was very hard to connect on 0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.760 any aesthetic level with these people who were just so 0:15:05.880 --> 0:15:07.920 beyond me at that age. But as time went on, 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.400 I think, you know, I I really I like to 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:12.240 I think I earned some real respect in my family, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.360 and you know, I think the number one thing was 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:18.160 my tenacity. You know, I just I wanted it so bad. 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:22.120 I wanted to write songs that that entered some semblance 0:15:22.120 --> 0:15:24.000 of a zeitgeist. Right. I just wanted to hear a 0:15:24.040 --> 0:15:27.040 song in a movie, or hear it in a stadium, 0:15:27.360 --> 0:15:29.400 or hear it on the radio, because I was completely 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:33.040 raised on radios one, so I just wanted to hear 0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:36.040 these uh. I wanted to hear these songs. And I 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.160 that that was I think the I think the one 0:15:39.320 --> 0:15:43.560 redeeming character trait that I have because some stink, but 0:15:43.720 --> 0:15:46.680 one I would say was I'm really Uh, I do 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.160 put the work in and I'm very passionate about my art, 0:15:49.240 --> 0:15:51.920 and I think in my family, I think that's pretty respected. 0:15:52.000 --> 0:15:53.720 So it was neat and didn't. 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.240 Didn't so much in the Eagles call him up and 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.000 he needed to consult with you about it. 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.120 Yeah, in the last years of my life, my own 0:16:00.760 --> 0:16:03.800 got an email from Don Henley and Don Henley had 0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:06.640 set one of his poems to music, and they put 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.920 it on the hell Freeze Over record. I believe, oh 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:12.720 that little record, Yeah, yeah, is that whatever? Whatever? The 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:15.640 Walmart was in two thousand and seven, and you know, 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:18.200 the record did two three million copies. Whatever. I had 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.400 never I was just about to have my first hit 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:23.680 with the Gym Class Heroes, and I'm finally like feeling 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.680 like I've done it. And my uncle, who at that 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:28.200 time was in his eighties, is on a bigger record 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:31.520 and never written, not a record before, so you know, 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:38.880 it's you know, I equate the music business with waking 0:16:39.000 --> 0:16:42.280 up every single morning walking outside picture you're on you know, 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.520 Seventh Avenue South, any downtown, you walk outside of your building, 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.560 you get hit by a cab every single day for 0:16:49.160 --> 0:16:51.200 thirty years, and every single day you have to wake 0:16:51.280 --> 0:16:55.160 up and dust yourself off and go create art. Because 0:16:55.160 --> 0:16:57.280 that's what it's like. I just say, you know, the 0:16:57.640 --> 0:16:59.360 fear I have when I wake up in the morning 0:16:59.400 --> 0:17:02.480 of just looking at you for something falling through or 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:07.600 something being rejected, et cetera. It can really do a 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:12.080 damage to your morale. So I would say, yeah, I'm 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:14.720 proudest of the fact that I can still get up 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:18.679 every single day. And now you know I'm geriatric, but 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:20.720 I still got it. 0:17:20.800 --> 0:17:28.200 Let's not go that far. We're born in the nine Well, 0:17:28.240 --> 0:17:30.800 you've put together a book called I Love the title 0:17:30.840 --> 0:17:34.200 of your book twenty one hit wonder, Flopping my way 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:37.200 to the top of the charts, adventures and songwriting. Can 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:40.200 you explain a little bit about what one would read 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:42.200 when they open the pages of the book? 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:47.280 I can, I can. You know, I wrote this book 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:53.200 because first of all, it was completing what I felt 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.000 at the beginning on the onset, I felt like I 0:17:55.040 --> 0:17:58.360 was competing, completing my dad's journey. There was a part 0:17:58.400 --> 0:18:00.400 there was there was a hole in his life where 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.000 he to me at least, which then I resolved towards 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:05.359 the end of the book. But you know, he began 0:18:05.440 --> 0:18:07.320 writing a book when I was seven, and he never 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:11.040 finished it. Forty years later he passed and he would 0:18:11.080 --> 0:18:12.720 just come back to it and then put it down. 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.840 And you know, it was it was nothing that I 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:17.720 could ever stitch together. And it gutted me, to be 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:20.479 honest with you, I was absolutely crushed, because you know, 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:23.560 he was this brilliant man. I felt like I felt 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:25.760 like the world never really got to know, you know, 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:30.000 the extent of his genius. And so that's why I started, 0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:31.520 because I felt for my daughter. You know, I have 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.000 one kid, and you know, she's musical, and I felt, 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.199 you know, she should really understand a little bit of 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:41.679 the family backstory and also what what hard work is 0:18:41.720 --> 0:18:47.240 and more appropriately, what failure is, because you know, I 0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:49.520 when you read the names of the people I've collaborated with, 0:18:49.560 --> 0:18:51.960 there's some of these songs. It's very moving for me. 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:56.000 But it all happened after the age of thirty five, 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:01.359 and up to thirty five, I'm bang grupting every label 0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.000 in the business. We went flop after flop after flop, 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:06.480 and that gets lost. And what happens is what I've 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.080 learned about in entertainment. You know, it's funny come tight 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:14.240 with Chuck D and great great guy, Public Enemy and 0:19:14.320 --> 0:19:19.119 Chuck D. You know he knows more daybuddy. You know, 0:19:19.200 --> 0:19:24.480 the industry just buries carcasses of failure. Right. We don't 0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:27.080 talk about these things. Right, So whenever I read a 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:30.800 puff piece, and like Chuck, Chuck really reads entertainment books, 0:19:30.800 --> 0:19:32.600 which I thought was fascinating because I do too. And 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:35.560 I've always felt like maybe I'm living myself. But you know, 0:19:35.600 --> 0:19:40.960 there's nothing about you know, eighteen seventies, you know Prague 0:19:40.960 --> 0:19:45.040 that I can get through my adhd is that's severe, Lenn. 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.720 So I have to get through these entertainment homes. And 0:19:47.760 --> 0:19:49.720 one thing I'd say is they're all a humble brag. 0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:51.800 Every book I read is a humble brag that tends 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.080 to be like a couple of moments of duress and failure. 0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.040 Maybe one you overcame one thing and then suddenly it's like, oh, 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.359 in surprise, and then well, let's spike the ball the 0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.159 next two hundred fifty pages. And what I wanted to 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:06.240 do was really harp on all these records that I made. 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:09.560 I mean, the first six albums that I produced for 0:20:09.840 --> 0:20:15.479 artists didn't get released. One came out, the six came 0:20:15.480 --> 0:20:17.840 out in September eleventh, two thousand and one, and ended 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:21.440 a career right there. But I ruined so many people's careers. 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.280 And the truth is I really played a massive role 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.600 in it in terms of just and what I excavate 0:20:27.680 --> 0:20:30.080