1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you as always 3 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: so much fortuning in This is part two of our 4 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,279 Speaker 1: not Entirely Safe for the Kids exploration of the theories 5 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 1: behind witches and broomsticks. Get ye to a nunnery, for 6 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: you have been corrupted by the filth put forth in 7 00:00:49,400 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: these uh these episodes. No, it's not filth, but it 8 00:00:52,479 --> 00:00:54,960 Speaker 1: gets a little blue. Um, but it's a lot of 9 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: fun and it's really pretty educational and super Halloween. He's 10 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 1: let's hop right in, let's go. Despite the great work 11 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 1: that researchers have done in investigating this theory, we have 12 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: to be completely honest. Not everyone agrees with it. There's 13 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: still a lot of debate. No, it's true, man, there's 14 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: some holes in this story. And we've talked about it too, 15 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:23,240 Speaker 1: Like the timing is a little off in order for 16 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 1: it to really work quite right. Um, basically, let's just 17 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: boil it down to this. There are a lot of 18 00:01:30,640 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: social psychologists that think that much more to blame than 19 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: some kind of trip or some kind of you know, 20 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:42,200 Speaker 1: psychedelic experience. Was the kind of stuff that you see 21 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 1: play out in the movie The Witch, which is again phenomenal. 22 00:01:45,680 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: The idea of this isolation, this social and political unrest, 23 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 1: and this sense of these young women felt powerless and 24 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,559 Speaker 1: then needed to exercise some power of their own and 25 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:03,360 Speaker 1: and lack shout against this very oppressive, you know, highly 26 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: evangelical religious culture that was sort of keeping them down. 27 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: That's my hot take. I don't think that's a hot 28 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: take at all. I think more people would agree with that. 29 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 1: You know, urgetism is truthfully considered a fringe theory in 30 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:23,160 Speaker 1: most circles. You know, most historians don't agree with it. Uh. 31 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: A lot of sociologists, as you said, point to other 32 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: more compelling factors that could lead to the same result, 33 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,320 Speaker 1: which is again the death of all those people accused 34 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,320 Speaker 1: of witchcraft. And a lot of people in the sciences 35 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 1: have cited, uh, this landmark paper, the first one arguing urgotism. 36 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: But there are a lot of people who still say 37 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 1: that she's not even onto anything, she's just playing wrong. 38 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 1: And uh, it goes back to what you said earlier. 39 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: A lot of these symptoms, while they may appear to 40 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: match in part the problems of ergotism or St. Anthony's Fire, 41 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,440 Speaker 1: they don't match it close enough for that to be 42 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 1: a definitive answer. So when we get down to like 43 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: the brass tacks or the brass rye of it, we 44 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:17,640 Speaker 1: don't have any way to do a forensic examination of 45 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,680 Speaker 1: the bread people were consuming. We don't know one saved 46 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: a three hundred year old piece of bread. It's it's God. 47 00:03:24,600 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 1: And that's why we still don't know what's set off 48 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:33,799 Speaker 1: those witch trials in Salem. But we know ergotism is 49 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 1: not restricted to the Salem case of witchcraft, or I 50 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: should say the ergotism theory. Uh. This is where we 51 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: get into a little bit of socio cultural examination of 52 00:03:46,960 --> 00:03:51,840 Speaker 1: the infamous which is broomstick right, Uh, I don't know, 53 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: It's one of those things. It's weird what we accept 54 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,520 Speaker 1: more children growing up, because if none of us had 55 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 1: ever heard about which is in brew sticks until we 56 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: were like in our twenties, we would have thought it 57 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,680 Speaker 1: was weird and ridiculous, you know, Like I didn't hear 58 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 1: about Bobba Yaga until later in life, and I was like, yeah, 59 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,160 Speaker 1: it's weird to have a house on chicken legs, But 60 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: when you're a kid, it's just which is due, you know, 61 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:21,240 Speaker 1: And uh, according to again that Atlas Obscure article we 62 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 1: referenced earlier. According to that article, uh, the broom has 63 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:31,720 Speaker 1: a lot of sexual symbolism to it, right. Oh yeah, 64 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: and let's not forget too like in the way that 65 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: history is often kind of bastardized and manipulated. Um, the 66 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 1: true image of a witch riding a broomstick not the 67 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: one we think of with the which black clad and 68 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: some kind of robe with a peaked hat and riding 69 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,160 Speaker 1: the broomstick with the bristles facing backwards. Uh, and we're 70 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: in some pointy shoes or something. That's not really the 71 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,720 Speaker 1: image that we would have been associating with this at 72 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: the time. It would have been a usually young, kind 73 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 1: of bucksom nude woman riding the broomstick backwards what we 74 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,120 Speaker 1: would think of the bristols facing forward backwards of what 75 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: we would typically think. And the idea that these hallucinogenic 76 00:05:18,400 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: compounds were ingested as some sort of flying uh potion 77 00:05:25,320 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: was a thing, right yeah. Yeah, So the broom was 78 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 1: sort of seen as a symbol of domesticity, uh, specifically 79 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 1: what they would call female domesticity. But it was also phallic, 80 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: which means it calls to mind a penis so writing 81 00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 1: on a broom was a symbol of female sexuality. Uh. 82 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 1: And then it meant, or it implied, in a weird 83 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:55,080 Speaker 1: symbolic way, that femininity and domesticity, which are fun to 84 00:05:55,080 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: say quickly, had gone wild. Which has gone wild? Cheapest 85 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 1: oak we're gonna make today? Uh? And it's weird because 86 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 1: I didn't know this. Gabe actually hipped me into this. 87 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:12,440 Speaker 1: The first known reference to which is flying on broomsticks 88 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: at all, was confessed by a suspected warlock mail which 89 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 1: one gay um Edeline of an area near Paris. He 90 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: was being tortured in fourteen fifty three, and he was like, 91 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 1: we you know, it's true. I fly in the air. 92 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: And we're like, but how how does the devil help 93 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: you fly in there? And he's like, I don't know 94 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: a broom Stop burning me. That's a paraphrase. Uh, but 95 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 1: you are right. Uh. People were drawing this idea of 96 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: flying and brooms out of rich historical folkloric soil, because 97 00:06:49,760 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 1: there used to be these pagan fertility rituals people would 98 00:06:52,760 --> 00:06:57,719 Speaker 1: celebrate where you would use pitchforks, brooms, anything phallic really, 99 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: any old pole would do, and then you would pilot 100 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: these kind of through the fields, and people would jump 101 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:07,360 Speaker 1: as high as they could while this was happening, because 102 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: they were trying to get the crops to grow as 103 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 1: high as they could jump. Right. Uh. And this is 104 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: depicted in a book published in fifteen eighty four by 105 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: a guy named Reginald Scott called The Discovery of Witchcraft 106 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,600 Speaker 1: as these magical assemblies. The witches never failed to dance, 107 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:34,600 Speaker 1: and in't there dance they sing these words, ha ha, devil, devil, 108 00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: dance here, dance here, plale here, plale here, Sabbath, Sabbath, 109 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:46,679 Speaker 1: and wiles they sing and dance. Everone hath the broom 110 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: in her hand and holdeth it aloft sort of my 111 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,560 Speaker 1: German like scholar voice from four, not that he was 112 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: necessarily German. I did my best. Wait a minute, I'm sorry, 113 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: there's a wordy. What is flail played? It's p l A. 114 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: I yes, it is, of course it is. I missed that. Okay, 115 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: well I'm gonna leave it in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, leave 116 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,640 Speaker 1: it in, leave it in. So this, this, uh, this 117 00:08:12,680 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: gives us a lot in one little quote to unpack. Here, Ben, 118 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 1: what are some of the themes that we've got represented 119 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 1: here in this quote? Oh? My gosh, phallic fertility symbols 120 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: first off, then you got the brooms, then you got 121 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: the pagans, right the non Christian religions, and you got 122 00:08:29,600 --> 00:08:32,840 Speaker 1: jumping into the air. Uh no, casey, I would say 123 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: all the pieces are there for a cohesive story about 124 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:44,200 Speaker 1: a flying which that's the traditional like folklore symbolism kind 125 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: of argument of how symbols agreed to a glamory throughout time. 126 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:53,920 Speaker 1: But now we now we're getting into the really racy part, 127 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:57,840 Speaker 1: which I think we've already set up pretty well racier 128 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: than putting drugs up your butt with a room stick. 129 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: Well that's the that's the racy part. That's where we're going. 130 00:09:04,120 --> 00:09:06,440 Speaker 1: We're going to get to revisit that because that's my 131 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: favorite part so far. But yeah, that this idea of 132 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: of of this hallucinogenic a salve being a flying potion, 133 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 1: right yeah, because you'll see descriptions of which is through 134 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:26,880 Speaker 1: our cane occult means creating a flying ointsments or which 135 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 1: is brew and this is as this is like the 136 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 1: magical part of the ritual or the process, right uh. 137 00:09:36,360 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 1: And this this is so weird because we don't think 138 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 1: about it this way, but the use of hallucinogenic substances 139 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: by people in religious contexts or spiritual context predates written history. 140 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:52,559 Speaker 1: It's not crazy to say that somewhere across the millennia 141 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,280 Speaker 1: someone figured out how to do this. Uh, you know, 142 00:09:56,320 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 1: you'll see experts point out that there are other readily 143 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 1: available hallucin genic plants in Europe at this time Henbane nightshade, 144 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: man Drake, and even as far back as fifteen sixty 145 00:10:11,960 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: three there are authors saying these are all hallucin genic plants. 146 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: They are all part of a witches flying ointment, which 147 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense if you think about it, because that's 148 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 1: kind of like saying if someone does one drug, they 149 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: do them all. You know what I mean? Like I 150 00:10:28,040 --> 00:10:33,719 Speaker 1: only snort cocaine heroin. Uh, what are ether all all 151 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 1: kind of mixed together? What's? What's that really gross? When 152 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:40,360 Speaker 1: you were obsessed with for a while, fascinated by Jen Jencob, 153 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:46,360 Speaker 1: you were obsessed with Jencob, I'm obsessed, would like you you. 154 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 1: I learned about it from you. Crocodiles, crocodile's probably crococodle 155 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 1: is I was, Okay, maybe obsessed isn't really the right 156 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: the right word, but crocodile is this improvised opioid that 157 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: like street kids in like Russia take and and it's 158 00:11:03,000 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: so it's made of like really nasty stuff, Like it's 159 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,480 Speaker 1: got an acidic quality to it that eventually, if you 160 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 1: shoot it up enough, it uh starts to turn you 161 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: into a living zombie type situation. And Jacob's made with 162 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: like poop and stuff. If I'm not mistaken it Casey 163 00:11:20,679 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: on the Case on the Case. Oh, that's our Law 164 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 1: and Orders spin off. So please don't dick wolf if 165 00:11:30,880 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: you're listening, we have way better ideas. Just just hit 166 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:40,640 Speaker 1: us up online. Well, speaking of dick wolves, though, I 167 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: gotta say, um, there's another interesting book that speaks to 168 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: some of this stuff called uh the Malleus Maleficarum by 169 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: Heinrich Kramer, and it it came out in fourteen six 170 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 1: and it's actually considered a manual for a hunting witches. 171 00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: And it talks about how which just had this like 172 00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: need for like just stealing dudes penises, and they could 173 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 1: uh make them invisible, or they could just straight up 174 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 1: abscond with them without the dude being any wiser, and 175 00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:16,280 Speaker 1: they would keep them, they would shrink them and keep 176 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: them in tiny in jars as like pets, So they 177 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 1: would have these familiars that were literally disembodied penises. Um. 178 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: So this whole phallic fertility thing kind of matriarchy vibe 179 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,720 Speaker 1: is very is a through line and a lot of 180 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: this lore. Yeah. Yeah, And we do have accounts from 181 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: this time where you see people under torture most of 182 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: the time uh, confessing to using an ointment. Uh. There 183 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:51,880 Speaker 1: are multiple iterations of this. Uh. One of the most 184 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: explicit comes from fourteen seventy seven when one Antoine Rose, 185 00:12:56,280 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 1: who was called the Witch of Savoy uh, confessed under 186 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: torture that the devil, whose name was Robinette, was a 187 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: dark man who spoke in a hoarse voice, kissing Robinette's 188 00:13:07,720 --> 00:13:11,920 Speaker 1: foot in homage, she would renounce God and the Christian faith, 189 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: and then he the devil, would put his mark on 190 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,400 Speaker 1: her on the little finger of her left hand, and 191 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,080 Speaker 1: then he gave her stick eighteen inches long and a 192 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 1: pot of ointment. She would smear the ointment on the stick, 193 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: put it between her legs, and say, go, in the 194 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: name of the devil, go. This is like, this is juicy, 195 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 1: sealacious stuff to read. If you're someone learning about this 196 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:35,880 Speaker 1: in the late fourteen hundreds. You know what I mean? Oh, 197 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,480 Speaker 1: I sure do. Um. Yeah. And there's a pretty great 198 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,040 Speaker 1: quote from that Malleus Maleficarum book that I was referencing 199 00:13:44,320 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: that sort of sums up a lot of the stuff 200 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:49,040 Speaker 1: about witchcraft, or at least in the mind of more 201 00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: of a puritanical lens quote, all richcraft comes from carnal luss, 202 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 1: which in women is insatiable God talking about victim blaming. 203 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: H Frerah is wondering. Uh. There's an episode of stuff 204 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know about Grimoires that talks, uh, 205 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: talks a little more in depth about the malice Malificarum. Uh. 206 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: It's I think the translation is the Hammer of Witches. 207 00:14:12,559 --> 00:14:18,040 Speaker 1: Is that right? It's it's a book for inquisitors, yes, 208 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 1: and it's written seriously. It's it's meant to be a 209 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: non fiction depiction of what these uh, what these witches 210 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 1: as they were called, are actually doing, How to find them, 211 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,920 Speaker 1: how to I mean, how to persecute them basically. Uh So, 212 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: one other question you have to have is, uh, why 213 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: a broomstick, why not some other household object? Why not 214 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,680 Speaker 1: a rake? Why aren't which is flying around on rakes 215 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 1: or on scythes or you know, uh, plows plows have 216 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:56,560 Speaker 1: handles right that are like broomsticks. Uh. It turns out 217 00:14:57,520 --> 00:15:00,480 Speaker 1: that there are some explanations. One is that the herbs 218 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,040 Speaker 1: used in the preparation of these ointments would have been 219 00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,320 Speaker 1: kept in a little broom like bundle, something called a whisk, 220 00:15:09,880 --> 00:15:12,440 Speaker 1: and it might have been boiled in oil that would 221 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: release the active ingredients, almost like a satchet of tea 222 00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: or herbs, you know what I mean. Yeah, in a 223 00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,240 Speaker 1: little piece of cheese cloth bound with the tiny little 224 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,600 Speaker 1: piece of string and it just filters it through there 225 00:15:23,640 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: and keeps you from getting big pieces of the stuff 226 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 1: you might you know, choke on it. But why were 227 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: they naked? There's so many images of the early images 228 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:40,800 Speaker 1: of witches that were almost exclusively depicted as like I said, 229 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: often quite beautiful naked women writing these boom broomsticks. Um, 230 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,359 Speaker 1: it's an interesting quine. I mean, you know, we also 231 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: there is something in The Witch, the vivivich Um, the 232 00:15:54,400 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: Egger's film that these women appear naked as well all 233 00:16:00,560 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: and are often covering their bodies in this salve. Uh, 234 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: you're gonna trip a lot harder if you put it 235 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: all over or you know, bigger dose, so you know, 236 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: and it's certainly got these kind of like empowerment themes 237 00:16:16,320 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 1: and pagan kind of ritualistic themes. Uh, and so that 238 00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: would account for that. But it's interesting how the image 239 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: of the witch has been kind of sanitized and turned 240 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: into sort of like a spooky Halloween thing. But if 241 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: you want to see what a real witch is like, 242 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: check out the Witch. Well, I would say, if you 243 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 1: want to see a horror film version of a real witch, 244 00:16:36,920 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 1: because real quote unquote, real witches were probably just people 245 00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: practicing longstanding, pre existing non Christian traditions, of course, so 246 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: I don't I don't think they were monsters. Of course, 247 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 1: my ex wife considers herself a witch. She actually just 248 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: joined the coven and uh does uh kind of incantation 249 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 1: a e crystal type stuff and and chance and things, 250 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 1: and it's very much a way of life and of 251 00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:07,199 Speaker 1: of community, and it's you know, I don't look down 252 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: upon it at all. I think it's great. There's is 253 00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: she wickan or it's that that that angle more and 254 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: more and more, that angle more, the white magic kind 255 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: of side of it. It's about positivity and it's about 256 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:21,560 Speaker 1: you know, um, they they do some things that would 257 00:17:21,600 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: allow them to kind of you know, use astrology and such. 258 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: But yeah, it is more than it. Yeah, I love it. 259 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: You're not hurting anybody. It's hating to have spiritual beliefs. 260 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 1: For a lot of people, it's powerful thing. And when 261 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: we look back at these events, uh, through the lens 262 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,000 Speaker 1: of modernity, it can seem kind of weird, you know, 263 00:17:43,119 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 1: because we'd be like, well, what is this? Really? Is 264 00:17:46,080 --> 00:17:49,879 Speaker 1: the argument here? That is it? Something like how dare 265 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 1: these people do drugs for fun and then pleasure themselves? 266 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: I mean, like on the list of terrible things humans do, 267 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: recreational hallucinogen use, uh, self administered and then self pleasured. 268 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, I mean, am I a bad person? 269 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 1: They don't seem like terrible things to me. Uh. Maybe 270 00:18:13,520 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: they were just seen as to empowering to the patriarchal 271 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:21,600 Speaker 1: power structure at the time, because it is kind of 272 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,679 Speaker 1: a case of you you could phrase it as an 273 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: oppressed demographic uh, having empowerment over their own bodies to 274 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,520 Speaker 1: do with what, you know, what they wished at a 275 00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: time when women were really had very few rights. But 276 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: regardless of how you feel about this, the fact of 277 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: the matter is that many people were tortured and killed 278 00:18:45,359 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 1: because they did stuff like this, which is just so 279 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: incredibly unfair. But I do like the pharmacological angle here, 280 00:18:56,359 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: and we don't know if that can explain everything, you 281 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:01,919 Speaker 1: know what I mean. It's kind of like saying, what 282 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:09,760 Speaker 1: is the exact moment that the trident became associated with 283 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: the Christian devil? Uh? In place of like ancient you know, 284 00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:18,160 Speaker 1: Greco Roman gods and stuff. Uh, well, there there may 285 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: be an exact point for that. We need to find 286 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: that in a future episode Dare you have It Man, 287 00:19:29,000 --> 00:19:34,119 Speaker 1: which is brooms, drugs and of course yeah, caveat, caveat, 288 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: cavalcade of asterisks. Not everyone agrees. Experts are still debating this. 289 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 1: But the seeds of this idea, the morning glory seeds 290 00:19:43,480 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: of this idea drug joke, Uh, those remain with us 291 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: in fiction and folklore today. And and Casey Off Mike, Uh, 292 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:57,160 Speaker 1: you you teased and tantalized us just a little bit 293 00:19:57,560 --> 00:20:02,239 Speaker 1: when we pause for something. And then uh you you 294 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: said there's a Harry Potter angle to this. Yes, So, 295 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,919 Speaker 1: around about the year two thousand, Mattel, who manufactures all 296 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,520 Speaker 1: kinds of kids toys of course they had a Harry 297 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: Potter tie end deal for a broomstick toy for kids. 298 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 1: You know, millions of these toys have probably been manufactured 299 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,439 Speaker 1: over over the years, but the one that made this 300 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:24,080 Speaker 1: one distinct is that it vibrates when it's between your 301 00:20:24,119 --> 00:20:28,080 Speaker 1: legs to simulate flying. But you can kind of see 302 00:20:28,119 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: where I'm going with this, right, like tauchy wand kind 303 00:20:31,280 --> 00:20:37,360 Speaker 1: of stitution exa, yes, oh back massager. So the reviews 304 00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: on Amazon from the period. They've since taken the page down, 305 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,640 Speaker 1: but you can find it archived on various blogs are 306 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,119 Speaker 1: really funny, like some some are from legit parents and 307 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 1: some are clearly people just having fun. But the one 308 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 1: I see here is like in all bold keep the 309 00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: batteries out and then and then also you know, there's 310 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,600 Speaker 1: there's ones that are like obviously someone trying to be 311 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: pretend to be like an a loof parent that's like, 312 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:02,679 Speaker 1: my daughter loves this toy. She just plays within her 313 00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:05,359 Speaker 1: room like hours and hours and hours and until the 314 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,320 Speaker 1: batteries run out and all this stuff. Um so I 315 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 1: think I think I don't know what ended up happening 316 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: with the toy, if they recalled it or what happened. 317 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: But yeah, it's just it's interesting to me because I 318 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 1: remember that story when it happened, and I just thought 319 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: it was kind of a funny accident, like the vibrating broomstick. 320 00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 1: They didn't really think it through. But if you think 321 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:26,159 Speaker 1: about like the history of witchcraft and how it was 322 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: perceived and how it always had this kind of sexual 323 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: angle to it, it's fascinating that that tension kind of 324 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 1: played out in like a contemporary way someone new. I'm 325 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: pretty sure that that's this. That's the very reason that 326 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 1: Tickled Miama is so damn popular too, just put maybe not, 327 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:43,480 Speaker 1: I don't know. That's great, Casey. I love the Amazon 328 00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,760 Speaker 1: reviews especially, And so you had you had one more 329 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 1: more ingredient to throw into the cauldron of this episode 330 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 1: before we call it an all hallows eve. Right, Oh, 331 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: I just you know, you just you just kind of 332 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,399 Speaker 1: rattled off lines and tigers and bear a style with 333 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: the episode was about. And I was just gonna add 334 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:07,120 Speaker 1: butts and penises and jars. Yes, yes, they're the real 335 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 1: v I p s. I think we can agree. In 336 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 1: today's episode, I feel like we learned a lot like 337 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: this touches on so many strange, strange things like a 338 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 1: social oppression, belief in witchcraft, magic, neurochemistry. Weirdly enough, like 339 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: this is this is kind of a I was gonna 340 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:34,000 Speaker 1: say Whitman's sampler, But what about this is a Halloween 341 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: trigger treat bag of weird knowledge nuggets. That sounds terrible? 342 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: Help me out here? Well, how about that? About this 343 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,919 Speaker 1: the real quick let's go around the room, favorite and 344 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: least favorite Halloween candy ben oh um. Well, as you 345 00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,919 Speaker 1: guys know, I don't really practice favorites. I do. I 346 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 1: do think there are some insulting Halloween candies, like the 347 00:22:58,480 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: wax or in and black taffy stuff or the u 348 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 1: wax lips. It's like you're going out of your way 349 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 1: to be rude. Just turn off your lights, watch go 350 00:23:09,880 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: watch the Witch, and don't give me this insulting candy. 351 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: Giving people that candy is like giving someone a partially 352 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 1: used gift certificate for their birthday. Here's the twenty five 353 00:23:22,359 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: dollar gift certificate for bed, Bath and Beyond. I think 354 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: it's got seven bucks maybe eight on their happy birthday. Bro. Yeah, alright, 355 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 1: I will accept that. That's great absolutely well. I I 356 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 1: am the arbiter of this this Q and A your patriarchal, 357 00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:47,920 Speaker 1: your pa. If not like that, I'm gonna go something 358 00:23:47,960 --> 00:23:51,560 Speaker 1: real basic. I'm just gonna say Tutsi rolls, like, Oh 359 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,720 Speaker 1: I like a Tutsie roll. They're plentiful and uh I 360 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,239 Speaker 1: used to just gorge myself on them and be very 361 00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: very sick afterwards. You don't find they get stuck up 362 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 1: in all kinds of nether regions of your teeth. Nah, 363 00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: I mean not not back when I was a kid. 364 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 1: What's your casey? What's your stance on the the alternative 365 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:13,879 Speaker 1: flavor twitsi rolls? Which is very interested? They're okay, but 366 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: you know there's no substitute for the original. Prefer just 367 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: the normal chocolate and as far as least favorite, just 368 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,359 Speaker 1: anything healthy, like people given out apples or whatever without 369 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 1: even having razor blades in them. Just like what holiday 370 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: do you think? This is? Apple Day? Anyway? No? Sorry? 371 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: Wait what are yours? Man? Oh my gosh. My my 372 00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,119 Speaker 1: favorite is sort of a controversial pick. It is almond 373 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: Joy and I know for a lot of people that 374 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,720 Speaker 1: is on people's trash candy list, but I just love it. 375 00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,920 Speaker 1: I don't know why. How do you feel you made 376 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 1: a face Casey, sometimes you feel like a nut that's 377 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 1: the almond mounds is the one with no nut. I 378 00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:56,040 Speaker 1: like the nutted one. I got really into I can't 379 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,199 Speaker 1: remember why, but I got really into reading about the 380 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 1: history of candy bars a couple of weeks ago, and 381 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: I think we should do an episode on it, especially 382 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: if you really call it, if you feel like really 383 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,439 Speaker 1: called to the almond joy. I think we could have 384 00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,879 Speaker 1: a lot of fun with that one. Oh yeah, I 385 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,200 Speaker 1: can agree with that. My least favorite is easily anything 386 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 1: candy corn related or those horrible little waxy pumpkin things. Good. Yeah, 387 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 1: what do you know again? I feel like there's this 388 00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: entire industry of candy that's made specifically for whatever the 389 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 1: Halloween version of the Grinches that people want to become, 390 00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: and they're out ruining, Like these kids work hard on 391 00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 1: these costumes, their parents are walking around. Everybody's trying to 392 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: have a good time. Man, don't that wax that that 393 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: you guys know what I'm talking about? That's happy actively 394 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:51,199 Speaker 1: unpleasant taffy? You mean, like a laffy taffy situation or 395 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:54,920 Speaker 1: something even inferior to that. It's like peanut butter or 396 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:58,800 Speaker 1: some kind of it's it's abomination flavored. I guess. I 397 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:02,159 Speaker 1: mean it just tastes like weird chemicals or something. It's very, 398 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 1: very just unpleasant. Got it, got it? All right? All right? 399 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: I think we've all learned a little bit about about 400 00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: each other today that we didn't know before. And uh, 401 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 1: this concludes our our two part exploration on the the 402 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 1: theoretical science behind the idea of which is on brooms. 403 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: Uh and and a million of other things. Alm enjoys, 404 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:37,080 Speaker 1: twitsy rolls, Abomination flavored candy, Abomination flavor can imperialistic, pedantic quisitry. 405 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: I didn't say pedantic an imperialistic. I mean I added, 406 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,440 Speaker 1: you know, I can add my own flavor here, totally. Yeah, 407 00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:45,879 Speaker 1: we all have free wheels here, despite what the witches 408 00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 1: might want or despite what the witch hunters might wantch So, 409 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: uh with that, I think I don't know about you, guys, 410 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,840 Speaker 1: but I'm really vibing on this Halloween related historical trend. 411 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: Do you guys want to keep doing this for a 412 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: few more episodes? I'm really vibing on this Harry Potter broomstick, 413 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: but absolutely do I want to do that thing? In 414 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: the meantime, huge thanks to super producer Casey Pegro as 415 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:19,400 Speaker 1: always for his uh ones and twosman ship. Um. Big 416 00:27:19,400 --> 00:27:22,479 Speaker 1: thanks to Alex Williams who composed our theme. Christopher Haston 417 00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,360 Speaker 1: is here in spirit. Jonathan Strickland, notorious Quister Halloween every 418 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: day when he's around. Big big thanks of course do 419 00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:34,560 Speaker 1: gave our research north Star and uh Fellow Halloween or 420 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,359 Speaker 1: which is a weird word. Uh, thanks as well to 421 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:43,399 Speaker 1: Eve's Jeff Coat. Thanks to all those great folks of 422 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 1: Halloween's past for giving out candy to two kids and 423 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 1: complimenting them on their costumes. Halloween's gonna be a little 424 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,240 Speaker 1: bit different uh this year, but let's let's keep the 425 00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:57,960 Speaker 1: spirit the same. Spooky and fun and wonderful. We got 426 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: this folks. We'll see you next time. M For more 427 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:09,960 Speaker 1: podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, 428 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,080 Speaker 1: Apple Podcast, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.