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Speaker 1: Bold, reverence, and occasionally random. The Sunday Hang with Clay

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Speaker 1: and Buck podcast.

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Speaker 2: It starts now, first, I gotta tell you guys breaking

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Speaker 2: news here.

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Speaker 3: Clay Travis he We're gonna put this up at clayanbuck

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Speaker 3: dot com and I'm just gonna give you a little context.

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Speaker 3: Clay said, you know, yeah, I think I do like

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Speaker 3: one hundred push ups. And I was like, Clay, I

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Speaker 3: know people who could do one hundred push ups and

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Speaker 3: they are massive mounds of muscle, notu nenecessarily massive, but

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Speaker 3: they're super super strong.

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Speaker 2: And Clay's like, no, no, you don't understand. I definitely like rocked.

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Speaker 3: Like we'll call it like fifty ish, which is still

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Speaker 3: fifty strict push ups is solid.

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Speaker 2: I know what.

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Speaker 4: I'm pretty good at push ups. It's my only real

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Speaker 4: athletic ability.

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Speaker 3: Fifty is very respect mean fifty at one. You know,

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Speaker 3: this isn't like twenty and then twenty and then ten.

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Speaker 3: This is like going straight.

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, Clay, fifty is solid, Like that's not

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Speaker 2: that's not bad. So he produces. I'm gonna give him credit.

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Speaker 2: He produces tape.

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Speaker 3: He went on, you gotta tell first of all, what

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Speaker 3: year was the we'll put this up on clanbuck dot com.

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Speaker 2: What show was this? That's my show.

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Speaker 4: So I did for people out there who don't know,

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Speaker 4: I did four years of sports gambling. I love to

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Speaker 4: gamble on sports. People know I like sports. We did

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Speaker 4: a sports gambling show. We had a lot of fun.

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Speaker 4: You had to make picks and like anybody out there

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Speaker 4: who gambles on sports, it's the tough business to get in.

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Speaker 4: And I bet Joel Klatt, who a lot of people

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Speaker 4: out there. If you're Big ten football fans, Joel is

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Speaker 4: the lead college football voice for Fox Sports.

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Speaker 2: Awesome dude.

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Speaker 4: He and Gus Johnson do the biggest Big Ten game

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Speaker 4: most weeks and the big noon kickoff game for Fox.

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Speaker 4: And so I bet Joel Klatt one thousand dollars. The

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Speaker 4: money went to the Mission Project. I think the guys

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Speaker 4: for former Soldiers right, and I want to get that

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Speaker 4: right because it's a great organization. If somebody will look

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Speaker 4: it up and make sure I give them the right

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Speaker 4: shout out. But we bet a thousand dollars on whether

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Speaker 4: I could do fifty push ups, and I believe that

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Speaker 4: was is that the fall of twenty nineteen. I think

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Speaker 4: that was the second year of our television show.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I yeah, I mean you tell me I didn't.

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Speaker 3: I've never watched the Sports Gambling Show before.

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Speaker 2: I didn't.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think the date is on it on the tweet,

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Speaker 4: like you can go look at the uh if.

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Speaker 3: I yeah, yeah, it's October of twenty nineteen. Now, they

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Speaker 3: do give you a hard time. They say that some

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Speaker 3: of those towards the end, you know, you were getting

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Speaker 3: a little a little loose on the strict push ups.

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Speaker 3: But I saw, I'm gonna be honest with you folks,

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Speaker 3: and I I was a little I'm not gonna say,

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Speaker 3: I'm surprised, not a thirty shade Clay's way.

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Speaker 2: It was solid, though. It was pretty impressed.

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Speaker 3: He did, like you got to thirty five with no problem,

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Speaker 3: no sweat, and totally legit, So I can't. I was

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Speaker 3: hoping that I was going to see a lot of

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Speaker 3: you know, knee touch the ground stuff and everything else.

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Speaker 3: But no, he got to thirty five without breaking a

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Speaker 3: well I mean, well maybe breaking a sweat, but with

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Speaker 3: no problem. We got into the forties and things started

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Speaker 3: to loose it up a little bit, but it was real,

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Speaker 3: real close to fifty. Look, I think that for a

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Speaker 3: guy in his four Oh, we're gonna have so many.

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Speaker 2: We have actual bodybuilders who listen to this show too,

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Speaker 2: so they like laugh.

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Speaker 4: And they laugh at anything we say up every time,

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Speaker 4: every time we say anything about it working out, they're.

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Speaker 2: Like, you got to get anyway, Yes, it's amazing.

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Speaker 3: How many I'll be like, you know, what's harder as

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Speaker 3: you get older and testos from levels drop, and then

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Speaker 3: we'll have someone who write like Megadiddo's eighty five years old.

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Speaker 2: Check out my six pack.

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Speaker 3: You know, We'll get the email right away totally, and

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Speaker 3: I'm like, wow, Bob and omaha with the six pack

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Speaker 3: and eighty five you know, so look, I know you're

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Speaker 3: out there.

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Speaker 2: We're just saying, but this is on Clay.

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Speaker 3: We're gonna have to come up with like a really

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Speaker 3: worthy charitable cause at some point, and we'll have to

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Speaker 3: do like the Clay Travis Push Up Challenge.

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Speaker 2: You know, we got to get this going because.

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Speaker 4: I'll need to get back in push up shape. I

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Speaker 4: was like, that's my favorite workout right because there's no

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Speaker 4: excuse not to be able to do push ups. This

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Speaker 4: is the one thing that I have one hundred percent

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Speaker 4: agree with on Andrew Tate like, quit whining, do more

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Speaker 4: push ups. I think if you're like, there's no reason

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Speaker 4: and you can't do push ups that you know initially

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Speaker 4: Herschel Walker, do you know how he would work out blocked.

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Speaker 4: He would do a thousand push ups and a thousand

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Speaker 4: sit ups every day. That's how that was his workout regimen.

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Speaker 4: And I mean if you and a while back, I

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Speaker 4: was like, I'm gonna try to do the half Herschel

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Speaker 4: for a while where I was trying to do five

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Speaker 4: hundred push ups and five hundred sit ups in a day.

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Speaker 4: There's no excuse. You don't need a fancy gym, right,

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Speaker 4: you just need a floor basically, and that's almost as

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Speaker 4: good of a workout as you can get.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look, the military bases a lot of what

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Speaker 3: they do, right, it's push ups, pull ups, runs, you know,

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Speaker 3: run slash.

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Speaker 4: Squats, a lot of squatting, just stand there and do

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Speaker 4: like squats.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, Sunday hang with Clay and Buck.

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Speaker 2: He is very buff though he has that going for him.

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Speaker 2: Super ripped.

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna get super ripped one day, Buck, And like

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Speaker 4: I've said for a long time, just claim push up,

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Speaker 4: sit ups.

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Speaker 2: That's what I did. I will tell you this, and

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Speaker 2: I know about this.

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Speaker 3: I have some I have some friends who where and

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Speaker 3: I'm obviously not one of them. In the fitness industry,

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Speaker 3: you know, and the number of people who make, especially

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Speaker 3: later in life, radical transformations. I'm talking about forty or

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Speaker 3: fifty plus when they get in the best shape of

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Speaker 3: their life ever and they claim it's just from you know,

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Speaker 3: intermittent fasting, eating chicken breast and like doing enough deadlifts. No,

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Speaker 3: that's not the only thing that's happening. I'm just putting

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Speaker 3: it out there.

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Speaker 4: You're more in the gym circuit than I am. Like

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Speaker 4: you're down in Miami and like these fancy gyms and stuff.

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Speaker 4: I can't get over the number of videos that people

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Speaker 4: take of themselves working out solo.

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Speaker 3: Now there is something called tripod squad and at the

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Speaker 3: gym where I go, where I wear a baggy T

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Speaker 3: shirt and try to mind my own business instead of

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Speaker 3: everyone's way, just so I'm as like unobtrusive and you know,

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Speaker 3: out of the way as possible. There are women who

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Speaker 3: put tripods down to film themselves working out because they

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Speaker 3: have millions of followers on social media.

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Speaker 2: This is crazy to me. Yeah, yeah, I mean I mean,

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Speaker 2: you know it's a thing, so yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I I don't know when this all started.

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Speaker 4: It seems crazy to me that I understand if you,

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Speaker 4: you know, are involved in a sport, or you're working

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Speaker 4: out in a group, or even if you're doing like, hey,

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Speaker 4: I want to see if I can jump up, you

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Speaker 4: know on this new you know, new height or something

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Speaker 4: like that. You've got a friend like holding it. But

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Speaker 4: the idea that you would like film your workouts and

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Speaker 4: like your squats and your bench presses, it's crazy to me.

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Speaker 3: It's a constant down here. I can say in Miami

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Speaker 3: for a lot of other players. I've never seen it

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Speaker 3: in New York before, to be fair.

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Speaker 2: But I see it on Instagram all the time.

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Speaker 4: When I scroll through, it's just like mostly women, less

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Speaker 4: than I mean, what do you think ninety percent women

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Speaker 4: doing this.

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Speaker 2: And they have millions of followers. Truly, how weird is that?

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Speaker 4: To be a dude watching a chick work out like

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Speaker 4: that seems super weird to me. I can't believe this

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Speaker 4: is real, that this is happening everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Some people find ways to monetize it too.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we are going to tell I mean, hey, look

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Speaker 3: at all the look at all the media play RFK

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Speaker 3: got for doing like nine push ups. Clay, I'm just

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Speaker 3: going to throw this out there. We're not seventy, but

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Speaker 3: you and I could both do nine push ups. I

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Speaker 3: don't think it would get millions of views.

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Speaker 4: I did it live on television. Buck tried to do Uh.

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Speaker 4: I think it was fifty unbroken?

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Speaker 2: How'd that go? Strict? Not that well?

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Speaker 1: Sundays with Clay and Buck?

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Speaker 4: This is funny. Buck it with Friday. So let's have

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Speaker 4: a little bit of fun VIPs. The criticisms, you never

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Speaker 4: know where they're gonna come from. Stan Clay, do you

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Speaker 4: know what a stud is? It's a male horse, a stallion.

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Speaker 4: You keep calling Carrie Lake a stud, and for ranchers

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Speaker 4: like me, it's gross. Please find another word. I think

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Speaker 4: of it as a compliment, is it not? Can you

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Speaker 4: not call a woman a stud? Is that unacceptable?

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Speaker 2: What do you think? Buck? Stan? The rancher is like,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna tell you.

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Speaker 3: I'm gonna tell you, I've never heard a guy before

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Speaker 3: you refer to a female that they liked as a stud.

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Speaker 2: That is a first. I just tell her, you and Stan,

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Speaker 2: you're just like coming after me over. I was gonna

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Speaker 2: let it go just off the top of ropes here,

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Speaker 2: I get she's a stud.

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Speaker 4: You can't call a woman a stud?

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Speaker 2: Ally, can she pull her mic up? Ali? What do

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Speaker 2: you think? Can I call her a studd? And is

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Speaker 2: that like?

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Speaker 4: Do you think that's a like it's a super compliment

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Speaker 4: that I'm making here. I think a lot of sports.

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Speaker 4: I think in sports that it's not uncommon to call

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Speaker 4: a really talented person, Like if I coached little League,

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Speaker 4: I'd be like, Yeah, she's a stud on this team.

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Speaker 4: I think stand's wrong, and I think you're wrong. Buck,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna I'm gonna continue to just give Carrie Lake props.

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Speaker 4: She's a stud.

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Speaker 3: We're having a conversation that we'll get back into here

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Speaker 3: maybe in the second about Clay's whole calling women a

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Speaker 3: stud thing and the and the accuracy start is Shannon there,

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Speaker 3: let's just start with this before we got into the

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Speaker 3: Supreme Court. We have Shannon Bream, esteemed Supreme Court and

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Speaker 3: judicial reporter for Fox News and Fox News talent for

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Speaker 3: many years. Shannon Clay has we will ask for your

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Speaker 3: legitimate and deep expertise on the Supreme Court. In a moment,

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Speaker 3: he has another question. He wants to ask you though,

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Speaker 3: this important question. We just had a vip wrote in.

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Speaker 4: I said that I thought Carrie Lake was a stud

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Speaker 4: as a politician, right, And the writer wrote in and said, like,

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Speaker 4: that's like it makes him think about horses and like

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Speaker 4: that those are typically men. If I said Shannon Bream,

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Speaker 4: she is a stud on hosting Fox News Sunday, to me,

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Speaker 4: that would be just like the badass, right, Like you're

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Speaker 4: really good at it. It's a positive do you if

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Speaker 4: you hear that phrase? Have you, first of all, have

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Speaker 4: you ever heard a woman described as a stud before?

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Speaker 4: And maybe you can also ask your husband because my

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Speaker 4: thought is now that I've done it a lot and

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Speaker 4: it comes from sports, because you would be like, oh,

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Speaker 4: that girl's the best, she's the stud on the team.

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Speaker 4: It's actually a pretty common phrase from sports. But Buck's

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Speaker 4: looking at me like I'm crazy when I use it?

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Speaker 5: What you?

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Speaker 2: How's you? How do you react?

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Speaker 6: Clear that no one has ever called me a stud

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Speaker 6: for anything, so I can't land perfectly, but I think

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Speaker 6: about Okay, you know, I married into a super athletic family.

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Speaker 6: There are professionals the whole thing. My sister in law

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Speaker 6: is referred to as the best athlete in the family.

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Speaker 6: She's had her college basketball and her college volleyball numbers

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Speaker 6: both retired. She is somebody I would call a stud.

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Speaker 2: There you go.

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Speaker 4: I would definitely describe her as the stud of the

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Speaker 4: Bream family. If people who don't know, Yah sid Bream,

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Speaker 4: who is the legendary Atlanta Braves player. One of the

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Speaker 4: most iconic plays. In fact, I was just at the

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Speaker 4: Major League Baseball Hall of Fame and your I guess

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Speaker 4: would be your brother in law sliding into home plate

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Speaker 4: to win the NLCS for the Braves is one of

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Speaker 4: the videos that they play on the exhibit that my

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Speaker 4: son enjoyed seeing. So that's the Bream connection there, right.

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Speaker 6: And listen, everybody in the family agrees that my sister

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Speaker 6: now Teresa is actually the better athlete. I mean, she

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Speaker 6: was invited to be Olympic Trials and all this other

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Speaker 6: kind of stuff. I mean, like I, in my mind,

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Speaker 6: Teresa is a stud. I think she would wear that proudly.

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Speaker 6: You could go with stud at I don't know. I

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Speaker 6: sometimes call my husband a stud muffin. There are there

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Speaker 6: are variables, there are options.

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Speaker 2: There Have you ever been called a stud muffin? But

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Speaker 2: I'm going to bring this up with Laura.

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Speaker 4: She has never referred to me Shannon as a stud muffin,

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Speaker 4: and I feel like that would really it's very well deserved.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why she wouldn't do that.

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Speaker 6: I'm shirt Buck, I'm getting you one too.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. I've been referred to as curmudgeonly by women.

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Speaker 2: Well that's accurate for sure. Yeah, I don't think that

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Speaker 2: we've been talking off air.

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Speaker 4: I was trying to think, you know, this is the

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Speaker 4: use of the term stud there intended to be a compliment,

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Speaker 4: is there?

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Speaker 2: And Buck, I don't was it you who came up

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Speaker 2: with this?

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Speaker 4: That there used to be like you would say to

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Speaker 4: a pretty girl back in like I think the nineteen

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Speaker 4: twenties of the nineteen thirties, you'd call them like a

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Speaker 4: doll face.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you got to say it like this though, Hey, Dolph,

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Speaker 3: and you gotta wear a fedora.

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Speaker 2: That's how you gotta do it.

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Speaker 4: But if I said to someone that we had on

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Speaker 4: as a guest, like as we went to break, you know,

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Speaker 4: like we just finished with Shannon Bream, if I had

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Speaker 4: said to her, thanks, dollpface, it would be everywhere right

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Speaker 4: like it would it would be headlines everywhere people a

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Speaker 4: Travias misogyny running.

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Speaker 3: It's like, if you happen to be a private eye

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Speaker 3: operating out of Los Angeles and it's always raining outside,

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Speaker 3: you get to call any woman you like a dame.

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Speaker 4: But if you are not a doll face too, if

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Speaker 4: you're not, is Carrie listening right now?

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Speaker 2: No, she's running errand's all.

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Speaker 4: Right, Laura is definitely not listening because she's doing the

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Speaker 4: studying for the bar. I'm gonna test this tonight. I'm

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Speaker 4: gonna give her a compliment. I'm gonna I'm just curious

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Speaker 4: to see what Carrie would react to if you can

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Speaker 4: keep a straight face and you just say thanks, dollface.

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Speaker 4: I would like for the men out there listening to

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Speaker 4: us right now, your wives aren't listening, I would like

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Speaker 4: you also to do this experiment and see what the

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Speaker 4: reaction is, because it was like, it is a compliment, right,

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Speaker 4: I'm assuming it's like calling somebody pretty right, like maybe

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Speaker 4: a little bit creepy, because the whole concept of a

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Speaker 4: doll face, Like I'm thinking also, it's about context.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you're like, thanks for helping me save

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Speaker 3: the day, sweetheart, you know that's okay. But if You're

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Speaker 3: sitting in like a corporate boardroom in twenty twenty three,

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Speaker 3: and you're like, sweetheart, can you let like us handle

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Speaker 3: this one.

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Speaker 2: She's not gonna like that, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: So it's all about context.

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Speaker 4: I'm just thinking of all the words that used to

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Speaker 4: be considered positive that now if you use them like

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Speaker 4: you might get fired for using them. In the wake

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Speaker 4: of our discussion about stud which I think I'm now

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Speaker 4: making democratizing and applying it for men and women.

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Speaker 1: Sunday Drap with Clay and Buck, we got.

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Speaker 3: A VIP email from Gabe Clay. He writes, Hey, guys,

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Speaker 3: Gabe from the Spicy Shark. Hey, we are a hot

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Speaker 3: sauce company. Oh wow, I like this live plug. Well done.

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Speaker 3: We are a hot sauce company, but we work in

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Speaker 3: shark conservation. I've ran with sharks many times, including bulls

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Speaker 3: and lemons. No shark deserves the disrespect of being the

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Speaker 3: bud light of sharks. But yes, it would be talking

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Speaker 3: like death by Chihuahua for a lemon. Sharks stay spicy,

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Speaker 3: so I'm not gonna try this guy's spicy.

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Speaker 2: Are you a hot sauce guy? In general, I do

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Speaker 2: do the hot sauce regularly.

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Speaker 4: Not really, but you know, they've done so many of

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Speaker 4: these spice spicy challenges on YouTube that my boys are

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Speaker 4: obsessed with it. And obviously here in Nashville we have

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Speaker 4: hot chicken, which is now spread everywhere, and so they

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Speaker 4: have different flavors of hot chicken, so that is kind

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Speaker 4: of a local delicate. Have you ever tried the Nashville

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Speaker 4: hot chicken? I can't because it's breaded. Ah, that's sad.

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Speaker 4: That's pretty good. So but the boy they have all

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Speaker 4: these like ghost pepper challenges and all this different stuff

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Speaker 4: and they love it on YouTube. So we have done

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Speaker 4: some of that just because the boys have gotten so

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Speaker 4: into it because those YouTube clips go viral.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's see. We've got Bill in Long Island, New York,

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Speaker 3: place I love and have spent tons of time Bill.

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Speaker 5: What's going on, Hey, guys, great show as always listen,

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Speaker 5: Buck and Trey. First of all, about the beer. I

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Speaker 5: switched from Nicolabaltra to Yinglang, which is the oldest beer

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Speaker 5: in the country. It's absolutely great beer. And this thing

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Speaker 5: has been bothering me and a lot of people I know,

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Speaker 5: and it's about Joe Biden. Do you think because Trey.

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Speaker 5: You're a lawyer, and Buck you work for the CIA.

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Speaker 5: Do you think the president committed treason? I mean, he

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Speaker 5: left all these classified information stuff all over four states.

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Speaker 5: And the one that bothers me the most is because

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Speaker 5: I'm a New York City fireman, I've worked down in Chinatown.

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Speaker 5: He left some of this stuff in Chinatown, which is

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Speaker 5: the craziest thing I ever heard in my life. Why

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Speaker 5: would he leave all this classified information all over the states?

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Speaker 3: So Bill, we've first of all, thank you for calling

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Speaker 3: her from Long Island, and thank you for what you

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Speaker 3: do making sure if you need a fireman, you need

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Speaker 3: them when you need him. But I'd say this the

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Speaker 3: treason issue. Clay and I talked about this on the

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Speaker 3: show as a legal definite. The legal definition of treason

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Speaker 3: is very specific and it's a very high bar, and

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Speaker 3: that would not the espionage ac stuff has to do

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Speaker 3: with handling, mishandling and missharing if you will, of information.

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Speaker 3: But it's not actually espionage that Biden is being accused of,

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Speaker 3: which is an important distinction. It falls under the Espionage Act,

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Speaker 3: which is a big umbrella law. Like when I was

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Speaker 3: in the CIA, we Clay always we were always worried like,

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Speaker 3: oh my god, I don't want to get, you know,

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Speaker 3: jammed up under the Espionage Act. That could happen even

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Speaker 3: if you say, you know, if you shared information with

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Speaker 3: a reporter that was classified. Now that reporter is a

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Speaker 3: U let's say it's assuming it's a US citizen, you're

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Speaker 3: not helping a foreign power. But if there's that disclosure,

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Speaker 3: even if the reporter didn't further disclose it publicly, you

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Speaker 3: could be nailed under the Espionage Act. So it's not

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Speaker 3: committing espionage necessarily, it's mishandling of classified but treason is

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Speaker 3: aid and comfort to the enemy during a time of war.

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Speaker 2: So that's a very high bar to hit.

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Speaker 4: I think you could hit Hunter with conspiracy charges relating

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Speaker 4: to a variety of different attempts to conceal his income

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Speaker 4: from foreign sources, certainly for all sorts of tax evasion.

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Speaker 4: I also think that there is, if you had a

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Speaker 4: really thorough investigation, the potential that some of that money

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Speaker 4: was being funneled to Joe Biden and he did not

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Speaker 4: report it on his taxes. I also think, again, the

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Speaker 4: biggest story now associated with Hunter, to me buck we've

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Speaker 4: known that he did the tax of aasion for a

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Speaker 4: long time. I think you could really hit him with

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Speaker 4: the lobbying for foreign government based on what he was

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Speaker 4: sending in these WhatsApp messages and the money that he

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Speaker 4: was getting. And I also think that the obstruction by

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Speaker 4: Merrick Garland and other elements of the Department of Justice

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Speaker 4: is a huge mess for the entire Biden administration going forward,

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Speaker 4: up to and including, in my opinion, Joe Biden, who

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Speaker 4: was willing to do whatever it took to protect his

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Speaker 4: son from any sort of consequential treatment.

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Speaker 5: There.

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Speaker 3: Let's see who else we got on the lines here,

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Speaker 3: Walt in Panama City, Florida. Walt, what do you got

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Speaker 3: for us?

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Speaker 7: Hey, good afternoon, and appreciate you having me on here.

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Speaker 7: I was in this is off topic because I was

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Speaker 7: in a hotel in Charleston a couple of weeks ago.

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Speaker 7: They have a gated parking lot adjoining their hotel, and

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Speaker 7: as we were pulling in, there was a big sign

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Speaker 7: that said electric vehicles are not allowed in this parking

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Speaker 7: lot due to fire hazards. And I just thought that

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Speaker 7: was humorous, the way that the lives are pushing electric

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Speaker 7: vehicles on everybody. But they've got all these.

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Speaker 6: Issues with them.

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Speaker 3: Well, also the electricity that thank you for calling in,

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Speaker 3: the electricity that they use tends to come from coal.

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Speaker 2: Plants, So there's.

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Speaker 3: That with the whole we're saving the planet, Clay, big

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Speaker 3: lemon shark kind of like big tobacco is weighing in

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Speaker 3: feverishly in our vip inbox here at clanbuck dot com.

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Speaker 3: Subscribe today, Stan writes Buck wrong again. When I was

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Speaker 3: a Navy diver, lemon sharks were a species of concern,

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Speaker 3: more dangerous than a white tip, but between a black

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Speaker 3: tip and a tiger, especially in murky waters.

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Speaker 2: Cheers from our I'm just going to tell you right now. Look,

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Speaker 2: if you're gonna be the.

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Speaker 3: Worry, if you're gonna be worried about somebody's Pomeranian biting you,

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Speaker 3: that's up to you, folks. I'm the lemon sharks are

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Speaker 3: the Pomeranians, the Chihuahuas of the sea. They're just technically

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Speaker 3: you could get bit. But let's not be whimps.

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Speaker 4: I do not know if I would be picking sharks

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Speaker 4: as my enemy of choice from an irony person. If

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Speaker 4: I were you living in Miami, I would I would

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Speaker 4: have my head on a swivel.

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Speaker 2: Next time I go in the water, you know.

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Speaker 4: What, because all these clips will get pulled if you

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Speaker 4: get attacked by a shark, and they're gonna be everywhere.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna go viral because you've you've attacked the shark

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Speaker 4: community to such an asquatch.

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Speaker 3: Now I'm gonna stick to swimming pools and a gator

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Speaker 3: is gonna take my hand one day in the greatest

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Speaker 3: irony of all time.

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Speaker 2: Don't mess with the animal kingdom, folks, you'll be like

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Speaker 2: tubbs and have to go more