Speaker 1: One of the most controversial powers the President of the
Speaker 1: United States holds is their ability to pardon or grant
Speaker 1: clemency to virtually whomever they choose. There are parameters, of course,
Speaker 1: pardons only applied to federal crimes. A pardon can't prevent
Speaker 1: an officeholder from being a peach nor can it expunge
Speaker 1: a conviction. In any event, it's a pretty awesome power,
Speaker 1: one that's been exercised freely. There was George Washington's pardon
Speaker 1: of the leaders of the Whiskey Rebellion, President Nixon's commutation
Speaker 1: of Jimmy Hoffa's prison sentence, and of course President Ford's
Speaker 1: pardon of President Nixon. The reason I gave the pardon
Speaker 1: was not as to Mr Nixon himself. Presidents have pardoned
Speaker 1: draft dodgers and drug dealers. Their actions have been praised
Speaker 1: and criticized. It should be able to be done in
Speaker 1: federal courts across the country. There is actually already wide
Speaker 1: consensus that certain kinds of pardons could be considered criminal acts.
Speaker 1: It does not convey any sense of guild or any
Speaker 1: correction to that. It is an old, old power given
Speaker 1: for the purpose of correcting injustice. Former President Bill Clinton
Speaker 1: was no exception. In August eleven, Clinton offered clemency to
Speaker 1: more than a dozen Puerto Rican nationalists, including members of
Speaker 1: the f A l En and several of the Macha
Speaker 1: Terro's connected to the Wells Fargo heist. It came with conditions, however.
Speaker 1: The recipients were required to sign a statement renouncing terrorism.
Speaker 1: Some had to serve the remainder of a shortened prison sentence,
Speaker 1: but still the message was clear. The President believed that
Speaker 1: while the insurgency group's methods at the time may have
Speaker 1: been flawed, their fight was just and freedom, or at
Speaker 1: least a version of it, was hovering right around the
Speaker 1: corner previously on White Eagle, the Taro's committing the Wills
Speaker 1: far gldhist was one of the biggest mistakes they were made. Fundamentally,
Speaker 1: the Wells Fargo case was an attempt to criminalize the
Speaker 1: Porto Rican Arms Struggle independence movement, but to do so
Speaker 1: in a place where there would not be so many
Speaker 1: sympathizers to that movement. For some foods they were like
Speaker 1: but the men. For others they were heroes and you know, celebrated.
Speaker 1: My name is Zem William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalists
Speaker 1: and author of more than forty true crime books. What
Speaker 1: you were about to hear is the true story of
Speaker 1: a heist, one that funded an international independence movement and
Speaker 1: sparked an investigation spanning nearly four decades. This is white eagle.
Speaker 1: Presidential pardons and clemency decisions typically lead behind a rumble
Speaker 1: of discontent. President Clinton's decision to grant clemency to twelve
Speaker 1: members of the f A l N and four members
Speaker 1: of the macha Ros left nothing short of an earthquake.
Speaker 1: For years, powerful voices on the left, including Coretta Scott King,
Speaker 1: former President Jimmy Carter, and Archbishop Desmond Tutu, had been
Speaker 1: pushing for the move and yet everywhere you look someone
Speaker 1: was angry. I believe strongly that the decision the President
Speaker 1: made was the wrong one and may well have some
Speaker 1: terrible impacts down the line. Should we consider the freedom
Speaker 1: of Charles Manson. He wasn't there at the time that
Speaker 1: the Lobianco's were stabbed to death, oren Sharon Tate was killed.
Speaker 1: They're not granting murderers and bombers of other kinds clemency.
Speaker 1: It's only days who claim they're doing something political Unlike
Speaker 1: a pardon, which essentially erases a conviction, clemency reduces a
Speaker 1: penalty without clearing the person's criminal history. In this case,
Speaker 1: the Macho Terros who had been given a conditional offer
Speaker 1: had already served time behind bars. Even with that, Clinton's
Speaker 1: move was unpopular. For one many questioned the timing, which
Speaker 1: was seen as suspicious. I can't tell you who told
Speaker 1: me this, but the story goes like this, Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: is going to run for state. Here's Hartford current reporter
Speaker 1: Ed Mahoney, and she knows she's gonna lose upstate New York,
Speaker 1: but if she gets New York City she can win.
Speaker 1: She sets up a bunch of meetings with the power
Speaker 1: brokers in New York, and she goes to see this
Speaker 1: guy named Hermann Badillo, who's the Puerto Rican guy who's
Speaker 1: a Democratic Party boss. So she goes over and she
Speaker 1: meets and goes, well, you know, Mrs Clinton, very nice
Speaker 1: to see if I'm looking new for it, because I'm
Speaker 1: gonna run for the Senate and I want to know
Speaker 1: what I can do to get your support this And well,
Speaker 1: we needed a new subway stop at Yankee Stadium, and
Speaker 1: we need this, and we need that and we need
Speaker 1: the Bruckner Boulevard repaved. And she's taken in notes and said, okay,
Speaker 1: well that's good. Well I think we can handle all this.
Speaker 1: And finally some guy who's sitting in the back of
Speaker 1: the room goes, and they want the political prisoners free,
Speaker 1: and she goes, what do you who are you? What?
Speaker 1: What do you mean? Political prisoners? And but you know,
Speaker 1: the rest of doo't listen to him. He's nuts. He's
Speaker 1: always look with political prisoners, you know. So who are
Speaker 1: the political prisoners? She says, well, these are the freedom fighters,
Speaker 1: you know. But they'll listen to that. There's no way
Speaker 1: anybody's gonna get them out of g Also, don't even
Speaker 1: concern yourself with it. Republicans in particular claim the clemency
Speaker 1: offer was an attempt to boost Hillary clinton Senate run
Speaker 1: in New York, which has a large Puerto Rican population.
Speaker 1: In fact, it became such a hot button issue that
Speaker 1: she event truly came out against the move, despite initial
Speaker 1: reports claiming she had supported it. The first Lady herself
Speaker 1: complicated matters over the weekend when she said that the
Speaker 1: offer should be rescinded after initially supporting it. That drew
Speaker 1: fire both from Democratic Hispanics, who said that they felt
Speaker 1: that she had abandoned them, and from Republicans who claimed
Speaker 1: the First Lady was using her position to manipulate New
Speaker 1: York politics. In her statement condemning the move, Hillary Clinton
Speaker 1: criticized the prisoners for taking too long to formally renounce
Speaker 1: violence in exchange for clemency, saying their silence quote speaks volumes.
Speaker 1: The House and Senate voted overwhelmingly to condemn the clemency offers,
Speaker 1: as did the FBI, the U S. Attorney's Office in
Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Prisons. A series of hearings in
Speaker 1: the House and Senate were held on the matter, including
Speaker 1: one on September one, led by House Oversight Committee Chairman
Speaker 1: Indiana congress Sman Dan Burton. What we want to know
Speaker 1: is why did the President make this decision? What is
Speaker 1: the public benefit? Who advised him on this issue? Was
Speaker 1: the FBI consulted the Bureau of Prisons. That's why we're
Speaker 1: holding us hearing today. Over the course of five hours,
Speaker 1: dozens of people spoke, including victims and family members of
Speaker 1: victims of the f a l n's attacks in New
Speaker 1: York and Chicago. The next. Indiscriminate bombing in this country
Speaker 1: will probably not kill me or anyone else in my family,
Speaker 1: but it may harm someone that you all know or love.
Speaker 1: Members of the FBI, not only by their name or
Speaker 1: by their actions, by the crimes they committed. I think
Speaker 1: you could clearly associate the Los Macha Teros with violence
Speaker 1: and crime and congressional leadership, including Democratic Congressman Henry Waxman,
Speaker 1: who read from a letter he received from President Clinton,
Speaker 1: who didn't appear at any of the hearings. The question
Speaker 1: of clemency for these prisoners was a very difficult one.
Speaker 1: I did what I believe equity and fairness dictated. I
Speaker 1: certainly understand, however, that other people could review the same
Speaker 1: facts I did and arrive at a different decision. President
Speaker 1: Clinton refused to comply with the subpoena for documents related
Speaker 1: to his decision, though he did share more than a
Speaker 1: thousand letters written on behalf of the prisoners, including some
Speaker 1: dating back. He also spoke about it with members of
Speaker 1: the White House Press pool. My judgment was that, uh,
Speaker 1: these people should be offered a conditional of clemency for
Speaker 1: two reasons. One, none of them, even though they belonged
Speaker 1: to an organization which had espoused violent means. None of
Speaker 1: them were convicted of doing any bodily harm to anyone,
Speaker 1: and two they had all served sentences that were considerably
Speaker 1: longer than they would serve under the sentencing guidelines which
Speaker 1: control federal sentencing. Now. Of the sixteen offered clemency, fourteen
Speaker 1: eventually accepted, and eleven were released within a matter of weeks.
Speaker 1: Juan Zara accepted the clemency offer. He spoke about it
Speaker 1: in the Last American Colony documentary that am I sorry
Speaker 1: that I decided to fight fight for my country? No,
Speaker 1: I'm not. I mean could have done things differently? Yes?
Speaker 1: Absolutely do I now think that violence is not the
Speaker 1: means to achieve anything. Absolutely. Yeah, That's a lesson learned
Speaker 1: in life for me. In President Clinton's letter that was
Speaker 1: read by Congressman Waxman during the hearing, jan Cigara's commutation
Speaker 1: was fully explained. I commuted the sentence of one and
Speaker 1: Riki Cigara Palmer so that he would be eligible for
Speaker 1: parole after serving nineteen years in prison, consistent at the
Speaker 1: time served by the Chicago petitioners. The timing of my
Speaker 1: decision was dictated by the fact that my former Council
Speaker 1: Charles Ruff, committed to many of those interested in this
Speaker 1: issue that he would console with the Department of Justice
Speaker 1: and make a recommendation to me before he left the
Speaker 1: council position. Political considerations played no role in the process.
Speaker 1: President Clinton has always disputed the notion that the commutations
Speaker 1: were tied to any type of political bid. He noted
Speaker 1: that a number of high ranking people asked for the
Speaker 1: move well before he made it, including members of Congress,
Speaker 1: Puerto Rican and US church leaders, as well as seventy
Speaker 1: five thousand signatures from citizens demanding the prisoner's freedom. As
Speaker 1: for his wife's Senate campaign, which he'd go on to win,
Speaker 1: President Clinton was firm with reporters she had no idea
Speaker 1: and the decision to grant clemency was a stun merritt
Speaker 1: nothing else. She didn't know anything about it until, as
Speaker 1: far as I know, until someone from her her office
Speaker 1: called and asked her for a comment. Because I did
Speaker 1: not discuss it with her. I haven't discussed other clemency
Speaker 1: issues with or I didn't think I should discuss this one.
Speaker 1: So it was up to her and entirely appropriate for
Speaker 1: her to say whatever she wanted to about it. But
Speaker 1: I did what I thought was right, and that's what
Speaker 1: I'll continue to do. Wanzagara was released from prison in
Speaker 1: two thousand four after serving the remainder of his commuted sentence.
Speaker 1: He returned to Puerto Rico, where he lives today. Outcomes
Speaker 1: different for other members of the Macha Teros. Of the
Speaker 1: seventeen people indicted in the Wells Fargo case, only ten
Speaker 1: ended up serving time in prison. Three were arrested after
Speaker 1: years on the run, including Norberto Gonzalez Claudio, a senior
Speaker 1: Macheterros leader who the FBI viewed as the group's public
Speaker 1: relations are. After twenty five years, police finally caught up
Speaker 1: with Norberto and Puerto Rico, where he'd been living under
Speaker 1: a fake name. Then, of course there's Philiberto Ojeda Rios,
Speaker 1: the leader of Los Macheteros. He'd spend the next fourteen
Speaker 1: years on the run, popping up every now and then
Speaker 1: for interviews and to lend his name to communicates. That
Speaker 1: all changed in two thousand five. Civil rights lawyer round Kubi,
Speaker 1: who you heard in the last episode, was part of
Speaker 1: the Macheteros legal team. He doesn't believe for one minute
Speaker 1: the FBI wasn't aware of where Philiberto had disappeared to
Speaker 1: after cutting off his ankle monitor. They insisted that they
Speaker 1: had no idea until they came upon his safe house
Speaker 1: through a lot of good luck. But when I would
Speaker 1: go down there, I knew who could give a message
Speaker 1: to to get to Philiberto. So I figured that if
Speaker 1: Frank Koby knows to give a message to Blank and
Speaker 1: it will get to Philiberto, really can the FBI really
Speaker 1: not know? On September two thousand five, FBI agents approached
Speaker 1: a farmhouse on a rural hillside in western Puerto Rico.
Speaker 1: Inside was the mandate sought for more than a decade,
Speaker 1: Filiberto Ojeda Rios. What happened on that day is detailed
Speaker 1: in an FBI after action report, though I should note
Speaker 1: some of the folks I spoke with questioned its accuracy.
Speaker 1: According to the report, FBI agents attempted to arrest Philiberto
Speaker 1: just before four pm local time. What followed was quote
Speaker 1: a brief but intense exchange of gunfire between the Macha
Speaker 1: terrorist leader and three federal agents, one of whom was
Speaker 1: seriously in in the ninety minutes standoff that followed, Philiberto's
Speaker 1: wife surrendered and was arrested without further incident. The Bureau
Speaker 1: said it then engaged in a brief dialogue with Philiberto,
Speaker 1: during which he requested that a member of the press
Speaker 1: be made available to him. Shortly after communications ended, then
Speaker 1: at six or eight pm, a refrigerator door inside the
Speaker 1: house was opened and a federal agent spotted Philiberto through
Speaker 1: a window, crouched down with a weapon in one hand.
Speaker 1: The agent then fired three shots, one of which hit
Speaker 1: above Philiberto's bulletproof vest. Several people at the scene admitted
Speaker 1: to hearing a loud cry in the sound of a
Speaker 1: person hitting the floor. After that, the agents waited for
Speaker 1: eighteen hours, then they moved in. I spent the whole
Speaker 1: night hoping that he had some tunnel and had been
Speaker 1: able to take an know, you know. They kept saying
Speaker 1: that the place was surrounded, and then he hadn't come
Speaker 1: out and said it was only later that we learned
Speaker 1: that they had shot him and just refused to provide
Speaker 1: any kind of medical attention until after he was dead.
Speaker 1: De Liberto Ojeda Rios was declared dead at two pm
Speaker 1: on September He was seventy two years old, and autopsy
Speaker 1: report revealed he'd actually bled to death the night before,
Speaker 1: a slow and painful process that would have taken anywhere
Speaker 1: from thirty minutes to two hours, meaning if he had
Speaker 1: gotten immediate medical care, Filiberto would have survived. Here's retired
Speaker 1: FBI agent Bob Hybel. It was not an execution. I
Speaker 1: guarantee you it was not not the where the bureau works.
Speaker 1: Similar to debates over the life Philiberto lived, there was
Speaker 1: discourse over the way he died, and general tells what
Speaker 1: happened was extra usial kill. The FBI knew that he
Speaker 1: was living there for at least five years, and they
Speaker 1: choose September twenty three, which is the day of the
Speaker 1: Lattice Uprising, which is commemorated by Poo. Independence movement is
Speaker 1: important in Puerto Rico, and so the manpower and the
Speaker 1: gunpower use against Hiliberto was extraordinary and I think it
Speaker 1: wasn't required. In two thousand six, Puerto Rico's Department of
Speaker 1: Justice sued the FBI for information about the raid and
Speaker 1: the bureau's various rates of Macha Tero safe houses. The
Speaker 1: case eventually made its way to the Supreme Court, which
Speaker 1: refused to hear it. A United Nations Committee on Decolonization
Speaker 1: also called for an independent investigation into the quote assassination
Speaker 1: of Philiberto o Hey the re es that resolution we
Speaker 1: should know was sponsored by Cuba. The Department of Justice's
Speaker 1: Office of the Inspector General did eventually release the results
Speaker 1: of its own investigation, which cleared the FBI of any wrongdoing.
Speaker 1: It states that agents were in imminent danger, that Philiberto
Speaker 1: had readily engaged in a shootout with FBI agents in
Speaker 1: the past, and that there was concerned he'd booby trapped
Speaker 1: his house to prevent entry. I knew that Philiberto managed
Speaker 1: to do something that almost no one managed to do,
Speaker 1: which was to survive a shootout with the FBI. One shootout.
Speaker 1: But I might know if anybody who survives to shootouts
Speaker 1: with the FBI. And while I know the popular narrative
Speaker 1: is that he was assassinated I just as a personal matter,
Speaker 1: out a political matter, or anything else, I disagree with
Speaker 1: that a little bit. He was armed and he was
Speaker 1: shooting back. But this was a shootout, in my view,
Speaker 1: between two different groups of soldiers, one of them representing
Speaker 1: the occupying colonial authorities treading on occupied soil, and the
Speaker 1: other by a patriot and a freedom fighter who was
Speaker 1: resisting the occupation. Do I think that he wanted to
Speaker 1: die with a hole in his lung slowly bleeding out
Speaker 1: because the FBI was too terrified to go into the
Speaker 1: safe house. No, I don't think he wanted to die
Speaker 1: precisely that way, but I do think, to quote phil Oakes,
Speaker 1: it was the life of a rebel. He lived in
Speaker 1: a rebel's life. He died. Philiberto was considered many things.
Speaker 1: To some he was a hero, a rebel, an artist,
Speaker 1: and a patriot. To others, he was a terrorist and
Speaker 1: a foreign agent. During the course of my research, I've
Speaker 1: seen him compared to the likes of Dr Martin Luther
Speaker 1: King Jr. Fred Hampton, Malcolm X, and of course the
Speaker 1: del Castro. He was a truly, truly dedicated person. He
Speaker 1: was a patriot in his own view. He was single minded.
Speaker 1: He wasn't allowed to have a family, he couldn't live
Speaker 1: with his children. He sacrificed his entire life for a cause.
Speaker 1: It's kind of a remarkable thing. Feliverto remembered as a fighter,
Speaker 1: also a musician, a lover of Puerto Rico, a lover
Speaker 1: of also the land of agriculture, you know, the memory
Speaker 1: of him finding refuge, you know, in the Puerto Rican
Speaker 1: countryside and of being violently killed unnecessarily. One of the
Speaker 1: only narratives that Philiberto objected to that Philiberto was a
Speaker 1: Cuban agent, and he hated that, you know, he he
Speaker 1: had few objections as to how he's portrayed by the
Speaker 1: colonialist media. But Philiberto was not an agent of anybody.
Speaker 1: Philiberto was a Puerto Rican patriot and was subordinate to
Speaker 1: know foreign power, be a Cuban or American or Soviet
Speaker 1: or anything else. I think we can't think about Los
Speaker 1: Marcetos as part of a historical process University of Illinois
Speaker 1: professor Dr. Jose Attilus. But they were part of a
Speaker 1: struggle for independent self determination and antic colonialism that it's
Speaker 1: really important so much as did some things that they
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have done, but they were relevant in the
Speaker 1: transformation of Puerto Rico and also kind of maintaining Puerto
Speaker 1: Rico as a different nation to the US. And as
Speaker 1: every political movement, they have their good teens under bad teens,
Speaker 1: which brings us to the final pieces of this story.
Speaker 1: What's left of the struggle and why Puerto Rico was
Speaker 1: still to this day seen as America's last true colony,
Speaker 1: and where in the hell is Victor Herrena. At the
Speaker 1: start of every episode, I refer to this story as
Speaker 1: one about a robbery that would go on to fund
Speaker 1: an international independence movement. What the robbery didn't do was
Speaker 1: funded revolution. And while Philiberto is seen by many Puerto
Speaker 1: Ricans as a hero and patriot, the complete and total
Speaker 1: independence he advocated for never got the support he wanted.
Speaker 1: Here's Dr Yarimar Bonia Ramos, an expert in Caribbean politics.
Speaker 1: I think that there is a solid block of Puerto
Speaker 1: Rican's that want statehood, that consistently vote for statehood, and
Speaker 1: that number is increasing. What the rest of the population
Speaker 1: wants is hard to explain, hard to define. For some
Speaker 1: of them, it depends on what's on offer, and you know,
Speaker 1: it's not clear to them what the possibilities are. In November,
Speaker 1: of voters participating in a non binding referendum said they
Speaker 1: were in favor of statehood, though I should note just
Speaker 1: over half of the island's population took part in that boat.
Speaker 1: Jennifer Gonzalez Cologne is Puerto Rico's non voting representative in Congress.
Speaker 1: We cannot vote for our commander in chief. We do
Speaker 1: not have four members of Congress, yet Congress has all
Speaker 1: power overalls. For now. Puerto Ricans living on the island
Speaker 1: exists in a state of limbo. They are US citizens
Speaker 1: and can move freely to and from the mainland, but
Speaker 1: they can't vote in presidential elections, generally, don't pay federal
Speaker 1: income tax, and have no voting member in Congress. Unlike
Speaker 1: Alaska and Hawaii, which became states after existing as territories,
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico has remained an unincorporated US territory, a commonwealth
Speaker 1: in charge of its internal affairs, but at the mercy
Speaker 1: of the US government when it comes to a number
Speaker 1: of things, including trade, the location and use of its
Speaker 1: military basis, foreign relations, telecommunications. The list goes on as
Speaker 1: the legal tax day. We belong to but are not
Speaker 1: a part of the United States. We are a property
Speaker 1: or a possession, and indeed, the former president asked if
Speaker 1: he could sell us, so it left kind of no
Speaker 1: doubt about the relationship that we have. And then when
Speaker 1: Hurricane Maria came and federal aid was so slow to arrive,
Speaker 1: and we got paper towels instead of housing assistance. I think,
Speaker 1: you know, all of that cemented the idea that no,
Speaker 1: we are not part of the fabric of the United States.
Speaker 1: Puerto Rico has been in the dark since Hurricane Maria
Speaker 1: slammed the island last week. Of the power lines have
Speaker 1: been knocked out and it may be months before they're repaired.
Speaker 1: It texted in a Brada. We get an A plus
Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what, I think We've done just
Speaker 1: as good in Puerto Rico, and it's actually a much
Speaker 1: comfort situation. Many people feel very bad about everything that
Speaker 1: happened with Trump, but there there are ways in which
Speaker 1: the policies that he enacted were just the application of
Speaker 1: the political relationship that we have. And in many ways
Speaker 1: he just made clear what other politicians have just covered
Speaker 1: up with facades and pretty language and obscure rules and procedures.
Speaker 1: And in fact, it was under Obama that you know,
Speaker 1: this revelation of our lack of sovereignty began to become
Speaker 1: apparent with the imposition of the from Law, the Federal
Speaker 1: Oversight Board, our inability to declare bankruptcy or renegotiate our
Speaker 1: own debt. All of that happened you know, under a
Speaker 1: different president. So I think it's important to not pin
Speaker 1: it all on one president, and in some ways he
Speaker 1: did as a favor in saying the quiet parts out loud.
Speaker 1: Efforts for Puerto Rican statehood on Capitol Hill if move
Speaker 1: forward and stops and Starts, and two thousand twenty one,
Speaker 1: lawmakers introduced two bills aimed at changing Puerto Rico status
Speaker 1: as a commonwealth, the Puerto Rico Self Determination Act and
Speaker 1: the bipartisan Puerto Rico Statehood Admission Act. As for Puerto
Speaker 1: Rico's future, Dr Bonilla says she's optimistic. I think Puerto
Speaker 1: Rico in the past decade and certainly in the decade
Speaker 1: to come, has been going through the most rapid historical
Speaker 1: transformation in its history. The way in which they imagine
Speaker 1: our political possibilities, I mean the fact that we topple
Speaker 1: the governor and for the first time came together across
Speaker 1: political divisions and have been coming together to protest austerity,
Speaker 1: to demand increase in salary for public workers, to also
Speaker 1: demand the end of gender violence and demand greater inclusivity.
Speaker 1: I see a Puerto Rico that is under great threat,
Speaker 1: including the threat of climate change, but I also see
Speaker 1: a Puerto Rico that is very much invested in dealing
Speaker 1: with those threats in new ways, and while independence is
Speaker 1: an option, many of the experts I spoke with, including
Speaker 1: Dr Bonia and Dr Jose Attila's, say the armed independence
Speaker 1: movements of the past have taken a back seat to
Speaker 1: the island's main political parties. After the assassination of Filiberto
Speaker 1: Trios in two thousand five kind of disappear. There have
Speaker 1: been some communityis by some branches of the Matos, but
Speaker 1: I think we can say that they are no longer
Speaker 1: present nor alive. There certainly is not armed struggle to
Speaker 1: the extent that there was in a previous era, but
Speaker 1: there are still groups that operate in the tradition of
Speaker 1: clandestine movements, who sometimes do things without necessarily, you know,
Speaker 1: identifying themselves. As for the man who started this whole story,
Speaker 1: Victor Harrina is the last fugitive from the Wells Fargo
Speaker 1: robbery case who was still at large. He remained on
Speaker 1: the FBI's ten most Wanted Fugitives lists until two thousand sixteen.
Speaker 1: That's thirty two years longer than any other fugitive in history.
Speaker 1: I've asked everyone where they think Victor is and if
Speaker 1: he's still alive. In my interviews with members of the
Speaker 1: much of that is I tried to kind of us,
Speaker 1: but they never told me. I think he pretty well
Speaker 1: could be alive. I think there was a little about
Speaker 1: anybody's mind he was in Cuba. I remember hearing he
Speaker 1: was probably down there, you know, in Cuba with the money,
Speaker 1: and became a uld for the clause. I mean, you
Speaker 1: think there could be at Hartford right now. I mean,
Speaker 1: who knows where it is. He could be anywhere. Oh,
Speaker 1: I think everything he knows where Victor is, or at
Speaker 1: least I think everybody is firmly convinced that Victor is
Speaker 1: in Cuba. I mean, he was a young man at
Speaker 1: the time, so I don't have any reason to think
Speaker 1: he's shuffled off this mortal coil. I asked my mache
Speaker 1: terre source of Victor is still alive? Quote, well, he's
Speaker 1: like ten years younger than me, so I do not
Speaker 1: see why he wouldn't be end. Quote. Victor is the
Speaker 1: only one I know of who carried out a seven
Speaker 1: million dollar robbery. You have to be trained in finance
Speaker 1: by the Cuban government, so maybe was treated different. And
Speaker 1: if the health gods have been good to him. Victor
Speaker 1: is still alive around sixty four and living a life
Speaker 1: of solitude. For the most part. I do believe the
Speaker 1: US government, meaning the FBI and CIA, know where he is,
Speaker 1: keep an eye on him, and feel at this point
Speaker 1: it would be too big a political hot button to
Speaker 1: push if they grabbed him. There's still a warrant out
Speaker 1: for Victor's arrest, as well as a one million dollar
Speaker 1: reward in the case. Maybe one day authorities will catch
Speaker 1: up to him. My best guess is that he's still
Speaker 1: alive and living in Cuba. My hope that he managed
Speaker 1: to listen and he reaches out someday to tell me
Speaker 1: his side of the story. White Eagle is written and
Speaker 1: executive produced by me Em William Phelps and I Heart
Speaker 1: executive producer Christina Everett. Additional writing by our supervising producer
Speaker 1: Julia Weaver. Our associate producer and script supervisor is Darby Masters.
Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by a Christian Bowman. Our series
Speaker 1: theme forms Regal or grand As written by Aaron Kaufman.
Speaker 1: Thanks to Arlene Santana and Will Pearson at I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: and a very special thank you to Northern Light Productions,
Speaker 1: and Bester Cram for allowing us to use clips from
Speaker 1: the documentary The Last American Colony, which is available to
Speaker 1: stream on demand. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows to bol