1 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: One of the most controversial powers the President of the 2 00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:11,000 Speaker 1: United States holds is their ability to pardon or grant 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: clemency to virtually whomever they choose. There are parameters, of course, 4 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,080 Speaker 1: pardons only applied to federal crimes. A pardon can't prevent 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: an officeholder from being a peach nor can it expunge 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: a conviction. In any event, it's a pretty awesome power, 7 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:35,320 Speaker 1: one that's been exercised freely. There was George Washington's pardon 8 00:00:35,479 --> 00:00:39,480 Speaker 1: of the leaders of the Whiskey Rebellion, President Nixon's commutation 9 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,720 Speaker 1: of Jimmy Hoffa's prison sentence, and of course President Ford's 10 00:00:42,800 --> 00:00:48,440 Speaker 1: pardon of President Nixon. The reason I gave the pardon 11 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 1: was not as to Mr Nixon himself. Presidents have pardoned 12 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 1: draft dodgers and drug dealers. Their actions have been praised 13 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 1: and criticized. It should be able to be done in 14 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: federal courts across the country. There is actually already wide 15 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:09,240 Speaker 1: consensus that certain kinds of pardons could be considered criminal acts. 16 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:11,759 Speaker 1: It does not convey any sense of guild or any 17 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: correction to that. It is an old, old power given 18 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 1: for the purpose of correcting injustice. Former President Bill Clinton 19 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 1: was no exception. In August eleven, Clinton offered clemency to 20 00:01:24,240 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: more than a dozen Puerto Rican nationalists, including members of 21 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 1: the f A l En and several of the Macha 22 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: Terro's connected to the Wells Fargo heist. It came with conditions, however. 23 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: The recipients were required to sign a statement renouncing terrorism. 24 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: Some had to serve the remainder of a shortened prison sentence, 25 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: but still the message was clear. The President believed that 26 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 1: while the insurgency group's methods at the time may have 27 00:01:54,840 --> 00:02:00,080 Speaker 1: been flawed, their fight was just and freedom, or at 28 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: least a version of it, was hovering right around the 29 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:10,640 Speaker 1: corner previously on White Eagle, the Taro's committing the Wills 30 00:02:10,720 --> 00:02:15,480 Speaker 1: far gldhist was one of the biggest mistakes they were made. Fundamentally, 31 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:20,280 Speaker 1: the Wells Fargo case was an attempt to criminalize the 32 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 1: Porto Rican Arms Struggle independence movement, but to do so 33 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: in a place where there would not be so many 34 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: sympathizers to that movement. For some foods they were like 35 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,799 Speaker 1: but the men. For others they were heroes and you know, celebrated. 36 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: My name is Zem William Phelps. I'm an investigative journalists 37 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: and author of more than forty true crime books. What 38 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,360 Speaker 1: you were about to hear is the true story of 39 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: a heist, one that funded an international independence movement and 40 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: sparked an investigation spanning nearly four decades. This is white eagle. 41 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:11,440 Speaker 1: Presidential pardons and clemency decisions typically lead behind a rumble 42 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 1: of discontent. President Clinton's decision to grant clemency to twelve 43 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: members of the f A l N and four members 44 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: of the macha Ros left nothing short of an earthquake. 45 00:03:23,560 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 1: For years, powerful voices on the left, including Coretta Scott King, 46 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: former President Jimmy Carter, and Archbishop Desmond Tutu, had been 47 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: pushing for the move and yet everywhere you look someone 48 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: was angry. I believe strongly that the decision the President 49 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: made was the wrong one and may well have some 50 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: terrible impacts down the line. Should we consider the freedom 51 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: of Charles Manson. He wasn't there at the time that 52 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: the Lobianco's were stabbed to death, oren Sharon Tate was killed. 53 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 1: They're not granting murderers and bombers of other kinds clemency. 54 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 1: It's only days who claim they're doing something political Unlike 55 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: a pardon, which essentially erases a conviction, clemency reduces a 56 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,560 Speaker 1: penalty without clearing the person's criminal history. In this case, 57 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: the Macho Terros who had been given a conditional offer 58 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 1: had already served time behind bars. Even with that, Clinton's 59 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: move was unpopular. For one many questioned the timing, which 60 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,520 Speaker 1: was seen as suspicious. I can't tell you who told 61 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: me this, but the story goes like this, Hillary Clinton 62 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 1: is going to run for state. Here's Hartford current reporter 63 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: Ed Mahoney, and she knows she's gonna lose upstate New York, 64 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 1: but if she gets New York City she can win. 65 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 1: She sets up a bunch of meetings with the power 66 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:50,719 Speaker 1: brokers in New York, and she goes to see this 67 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 1: guy named Hermann Badillo, who's the Puerto Rican guy who's 68 00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:59,200 Speaker 1: a Democratic Party boss. So she goes over and she 69 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: meets and goes, well, you know, Mrs Clinton, very nice 70 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 1: to see if I'm looking new for it, because I'm 71 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: gonna run for the Senate and I want to know 72 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:11,360 Speaker 1: what I can do to get your support this And well, 73 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 1: we needed a new subway stop at Yankee Stadium, and 74 00:05:14,920 --> 00:05:17,039 Speaker 1: we need this, and we need that and we need 75 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 1: the Bruckner Boulevard repaved. And she's taken in notes and said, okay, 76 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 1: well that's good. Well I think we can handle all this. 77 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,200 Speaker 1: And finally some guy who's sitting in the back of 78 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:28,479 Speaker 1: the room goes, and they want the political prisoners free, 79 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:30,839 Speaker 1: and she goes, what do you who are you? What? 80 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,120 Speaker 1: What do you mean? Political prisoners? And but you know, 81 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,279 Speaker 1: the rest of doo't listen to him. He's nuts. He's 82 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 1: always look with political prisoners, you know. So who are 83 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 1: the political prisoners? She says, well, these are the freedom fighters, 84 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: you know. But they'll listen to that. There's no way 85 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 1: anybody's gonna get them out of g Also, don't even 86 00:05:45,520 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: concern yourself with it. Republicans in particular claim the clemency 87 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: offer was an attempt to boost Hillary clinton Senate run 88 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: in New York, which has a large Puerto Rican population. 89 00:05:56,560 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 1: In fact, it became such a hot button issue that 90 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 1: she event truly came out against the move, despite initial 91 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 1: reports claiming she had supported it. The first Lady herself 92 00:06:07,400 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: complicated matters over the weekend when she said that the 93 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,280 Speaker 1: offer should be rescinded after initially supporting it. That drew 94 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 1: fire both from Democratic Hispanics, who said that they felt 95 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: that she had abandoned them, and from Republicans who claimed 96 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 1: the First Lady was using her position to manipulate New 97 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:28,920 Speaker 1: York politics. In her statement condemning the move, Hillary Clinton 98 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:32,839 Speaker 1: criticized the prisoners for taking too long to formally renounce 99 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:38,200 Speaker 1: violence in exchange for clemency, saying their silence quote speaks volumes. 100 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 1: The House and Senate voted overwhelmingly to condemn the clemency offers, 101 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,640 Speaker 1: as did the FBI, the U S. Attorney's Office in 102 00:06:46,680 --> 00:06:50,320 Speaker 1: the Federal Bureau of Prisons. A series of hearings in 103 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: the House and Senate were held on the matter, including 104 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: one on September one, led by House Oversight Committee Chairman 105 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: Indiana congress Sman Dan Burton. What we want to know 106 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,160 Speaker 1: is why did the President make this decision? What is 107 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: the public benefit? Who advised him on this issue? Was 108 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: the FBI consulted the Bureau of Prisons. That's why we're 109 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,560 Speaker 1: holding us hearing today. Over the course of five hours, 110 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: dozens of people spoke, including victims and family members of 111 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: victims of the f a l n's attacks in New 112 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: York and Chicago. The next. Indiscriminate bombing in this country 113 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,200 Speaker 1: will probably not kill me or anyone else in my family, 114 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: but it may harm someone that you all know or love. 115 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,960 Speaker 1: Members of the FBI, not only by their name or 116 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:44,760 Speaker 1: by their actions, by the crimes they committed. I think 117 00:07:44,840 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: you could clearly associate the Los Macha Teros with violence 118 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 1: and crime and congressional leadership, including Democratic Congressman Henry Waxman, 119 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,239 Speaker 1: who read from a letter he received from President Clinton, 120 00:07:58,560 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: who didn't appear at any of the hearings. The question 121 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,200 Speaker 1: of clemency for these prisoners was a very difficult one. 122 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 1: I did what I believe equity and fairness dictated. I 123 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: certainly understand, however, that other people could review the same 124 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: facts I did and arrive at a different decision. President 125 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: Clinton refused to comply with the subpoena for documents related 126 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: to his decision, though he did share more than a 127 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,360 Speaker 1: thousand letters written on behalf of the prisoners, including some 128 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: dating back. He also spoke about it with members of 129 00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: the White House Press pool. My judgment was that, uh, 130 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: these people should be offered a conditional of clemency for 131 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: two reasons. One, none of them, even though they belonged 132 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: to an organization which had espoused violent means. None of 133 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:59,719 Speaker 1: them were convicted of doing any bodily harm to anyone, 134 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:05,239 Speaker 1: and two they had all served sentences that were considerably 135 00:09:05,240 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: longer than they would serve under the sentencing guidelines which 136 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:13,239 Speaker 1: control federal sentencing. Now. Of the sixteen offered clemency, fourteen 137 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:17,080 Speaker 1: eventually accepted, and eleven were released within a matter of weeks. 138 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 1: Juan Zara accepted the clemency offer. He spoke about it 139 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: in the Last American Colony documentary that am I sorry 140 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: that I decided to fight fight for my country? No, 141 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: I'm not. I mean could have done things differently? Yes? 142 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:36,959 Speaker 1: Absolutely do I now think that violence is not the 143 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,839 Speaker 1: means to achieve anything. Absolutely. Yeah, That's a lesson learned 144 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:45,200 Speaker 1: in life for me. In President Clinton's letter that was 145 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:49,719 Speaker 1: read by Congressman Waxman during the hearing, jan Cigara's commutation 146 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: was fully explained. I commuted the sentence of one and 147 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: Riki Cigara Palmer so that he would be eligible for 148 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 1: parole after serving nineteen years in prison, consistent at the 149 00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:04,560 Speaker 1: time served by the Chicago petitioners. The timing of my 150 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: decision was dictated by the fact that my former Council 151 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: Charles Ruff, committed to many of those interested in this 152 00:10:11,240 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: issue that he would console with the Department of Justice 153 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:17,760 Speaker 1: and make a recommendation to me before he left the 154 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 1: council position. Political considerations played no role in the process. 155 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: President Clinton has always disputed the notion that the commutations 156 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:32,000 Speaker 1: were tied to any type of political bid. He noted 157 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 1: that a number of high ranking people asked for the 158 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,960 Speaker 1: move well before he made it, including members of Congress, 159 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 1: Puerto Rican and US church leaders, as well as seventy 160 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: five thousand signatures from citizens demanding the prisoner's freedom. As 161 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:51,640 Speaker 1: for his wife's Senate campaign, which he'd go on to win, 162 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: President Clinton was firm with reporters she had no idea 163 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:00,840 Speaker 1: and the decision to grant clemency was a stun merritt 164 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,079 Speaker 1: nothing else. She didn't know anything about it until, as 165 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 1: far as I know, until someone from her her office 166 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:11,400 Speaker 1: called and asked her for a comment. Because I did 167 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: not discuss it with her. I haven't discussed other clemency 168 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,439 Speaker 1: issues with or I didn't think I should discuss this one. 169 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: So it was up to her and entirely appropriate for 170 00:11:20,880 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: her to say whatever she wanted to about it. But 171 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:24,280 Speaker 1: I did what I thought was right, and that's what 172 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:38,320 Speaker 1: I'll continue to do. Wanzagara was released from prison in 173 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: two thousand four after serving the remainder of his commuted sentence. 174 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: He returned to Puerto Rico, where he lives today. Outcomes 175 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 1: different for other members of the Macha Teros. Of the 176 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 1: seventeen people indicted in the Wells Fargo case, only ten 177 00:11:54,760 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: ended up serving time in prison. Three were arrested after 178 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:03,320 Speaker 1: years on the run, including Norberto Gonzalez Claudio, a senior 179 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: Macheterros leader who the FBI viewed as the group's public 180 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: relations are. After twenty five years, police finally caught up 181 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 1: with Norberto and Puerto Rico, where he'd been living under 182 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: a fake name. Then, of course there's Philiberto Ojeda Rios, 183 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:24,720 Speaker 1: the leader of Los Macheteros. He'd spend the next fourteen 184 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: years on the run, popping up every now and then 185 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,680 Speaker 1: for interviews and to lend his name to communicates. That 186 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: all changed in two thousand five. Civil rights lawyer round Kubi, 187 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 1: who you heard in the last episode, was part of 188 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,600 Speaker 1: the Macheteros legal team. He doesn't believe for one minute 189 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:46,480 Speaker 1: the FBI wasn't aware of where Philiberto had disappeared to 190 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,480 Speaker 1: after cutting off his ankle monitor. They insisted that they 191 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:55,280 Speaker 1: had no idea until they came upon his safe house 192 00:12:55,440 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: through a lot of good luck. But when I would 193 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,040 Speaker 1: go down there, I knew who could give a message 194 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,839 Speaker 1: to to get to Philiberto. So I figured that if 195 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: Frank Koby knows to give a message to Blank and 196 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: it will get to Philiberto, really can the FBI really 197 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:19,520 Speaker 1: not know? On September two thousand five, FBI agents approached 198 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: a farmhouse on a rural hillside in western Puerto Rico. 199 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: Inside was the mandate sought for more than a decade, 200 00:13:27,960 --> 00:13:33,319 Speaker 1: Filiberto Ojeda Rios. What happened on that day is detailed 201 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: in an FBI after action report, though I should note 202 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: some of the folks I spoke with questioned its accuracy. 203 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: According to the report, FBI agents attempted to arrest Philiberto 204 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 1: just before four pm local time. What followed was quote 205 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: a brief but intense exchange of gunfire between the Macha 206 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: terrorist leader and three federal agents, one of whom was 207 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: seriously in in the ninety minutes standoff that followed, Philiberto's 208 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: wife surrendered and was arrested without further incident. The Bureau 209 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: said it then engaged in a brief dialogue with Philiberto, 210 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 1: during which he requested that a member of the press 211 00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: be made available to him. Shortly after communications ended, then 212 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: at six or eight pm, a refrigerator door inside the 213 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 1: house was opened and a federal agent spotted Philiberto through 214 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: a window, crouched down with a weapon in one hand. 215 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,640 Speaker 1: The agent then fired three shots, one of which hit 216 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: above Philiberto's bulletproof vest. Several people at the scene admitted 217 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: to hearing a loud cry in the sound of a 218 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: person hitting the floor. After that, the agents waited for 219 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:54,240 Speaker 1: eighteen hours, then they moved in. I spent the whole 220 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: night hoping that he had some tunnel and had been 221 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,240 Speaker 1: able to take an know, you know. They kept saying 222 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:04,200 Speaker 1: that the place was surrounded, and then he hadn't come 223 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: out and said it was only later that we learned 224 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,400 Speaker 1: that they had shot him and just refused to provide 225 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 1: any kind of medical attention until after he was dead. 226 00:15:14,680 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: De Liberto Ojeda Rios was declared dead at two pm 227 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:25,200 Speaker 1: on September He was seventy two years old, and autopsy 228 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,560 Speaker 1: report revealed he'd actually bled to death the night before, 229 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,400 Speaker 1: a slow and painful process that would have taken anywhere 230 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: from thirty minutes to two hours, meaning if he had 231 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: gotten immediate medical care, Filiberto would have survived. Here's retired 232 00:15:42,840 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: FBI agent Bob Hybel. It was not an execution. I 233 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: guarantee you it was not not the where the bureau works. 234 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 1: Similar to debates over the life Philiberto lived, there was 235 00:15:54,360 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: discourse over the way he died, and general tells what 236 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:02,560 Speaker 1: happened was extra usial kill. The FBI knew that he 237 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: was living there for at least five years, and they 238 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:12,280 Speaker 1: choose September twenty three, which is the day of the 239 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,480 Speaker 1: Lattice Uprising, which is commemorated by Poo. Independence movement is 240 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:22,720 Speaker 1: important in Puerto Rico, and so the manpower and the 241 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: gunpower use against Hiliberto was extraordinary and I think it 242 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: wasn't required. In two thousand six, Puerto Rico's Department of 243 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: Justice sued the FBI for information about the raid and 244 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 1: the bureau's various rates of Macha Tero safe houses. The 245 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,560 Speaker 1: case eventually made its way to the Supreme Court, which 246 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: refused to hear it. A United Nations Committee on Decolonization 247 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:57,800 Speaker 1: also called for an independent investigation into the quote assassination 248 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: of Philiberto o Hey the re es that resolution we 249 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: should know was sponsored by Cuba. The Department of Justice's 250 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: Office of the Inspector General did eventually release the results 251 00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: of its own investigation, which cleared the FBI of any wrongdoing. 252 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: It states that agents were in imminent danger, that Philiberto 253 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: had readily engaged in a shootout with FBI agents in 254 00:17:23,840 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 1: the past, and that there was concerned he'd booby trapped 255 00:17:27,640 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 1: his house to prevent entry. I knew that Philiberto managed 256 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:35,719 Speaker 1: to do something that almost no one managed to do, 257 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,320 Speaker 1: which was to survive a shootout with the FBI. One shootout. 258 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,880 Speaker 1: But I might know if anybody who survives to shootouts 259 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: with the FBI. And while I know the popular narrative 260 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: is that he was assassinated I just as a personal matter, 261 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 1: out a political matter, or anything else, I disagree with 262 00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:08,359 Speaker 1: that a little bit. He was armed and he was 263 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:13,639 Speaker 1: shooting back. But this was a shootout, in my view, 264 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: between two different groups of soldiers, one of them representing 265 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 1: the occupying colonial authorities treading on occupied soil, and the 266 00:18:25,320 --> 00:18:29,159 Speaker 1: other by a patriot and a freedom fighter who was 267 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 1: resisting the occupation. Do I think that he wanted to 268 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: die with a hole in his lung slowly bleeding out 269 00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 1: because the FBI was too terrified to go into the 270 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 1: safe house. No, I don't think he wanted to die 271 00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:49,680 Speaker 1: precisely that way, but I do think, to quote phil Oakes, 272 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,440 Speaker 1: it was the life of a rebel. He lived in 273 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:58,439 Speaker 1: a rebel's life. He died. Philiberto was considered many things. 274 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: To some he was a hero, a rebel, an artist, 275 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:07,199 Speaker 1: and a patriot. To others, he was a terrorist and 276 00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,600 Speaker 1: a foreign agent. During the course of my research, I've 277 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: seen him compared to the likes of Dr Martin Luther 278 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,919 Speaker 1: King Jr. Fred Hampton, Malcolm X, and of course the 279 00:19:17,960 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: del Castro. He was a truly, truly dedicated person. He 280 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: was a patriot in his own view. He was single minded. 281 00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 1: He wasn't allowed to have a family, he couldn't live 282 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: with his children. He sacrificed his entire life for a cause. 283 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:39,199 Speaker 1: It's kind of a remarkable thing. Feliverto remembered as a fighter, 284 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,560 Speaker 1: also a musician, a lover of Puerto Rico, a lover 285 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:48,440 Speaker 1: of also the land of agriculture, you know, the memory 286 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: of him finding refuge, you know, in the Puerto Rican 287 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:57,919 Speaker 1: countryside and of being violently killed unnecessarily. One of the 288 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,959 Speaker 1: only narratives that Philiberto objected to that Philiberto was a 289 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:05,480 Speaker 1: Cuban agent, and he hated that, you know, he he 290 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:08,640 Speaker 1: had few objections as to how he's portrayed by the 291 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 1: colonialist media. But Philiberto was not an agent of anybody. 292 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:21,879 Speaker 1: Philiberto was a Puerto Rican patriot and was subordinate to 293 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: know foreign power, be a Cuban or American or Soviet 294 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: or anything else. I think we can't think about Los 295 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: Marcetos as part of a historical process University of Illinois 296 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: professor Dr. Jose Attilus. But they were part of a 297 00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:44,680 Speaker 1: struggle for independent self determination and antic colonialism that it's 298 00:20:44,680 --> 00:20:48,160 Speaker 1: really important so much as did some things that they 299 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: probably shouldn't have done, but they were relevant in the 300 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: transformation of Puerto Rico and also kind of maintaining Puerto 301 00:20:55,800 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: Rico as a different nation to the US. And as 302 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: every political movement, they have their good teens under bad teens, 303 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 1: which brings us to the final pieces of this story. 304 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: What's left of the struggle and why Puerto Rico was 305 00:21:13,160 --> 00:21:16,960 Speaker 1: still to this day seen as America's last true colony, 306 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: and where in the hell is Victor Herrena. At the 307 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,160 Speaker 1: start of every episode, I refer to this story as 308 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: one about a robbery that would go on to fund 309 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 1: an international independence movement. What the robbery didn't do was 310 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:43,280 Speaker 1: funded revolution. And while Philiberto is seen by many Puerto 311 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 1: Ricans as a hero and patriot, the complete and total 312 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: independence he advocated for never got the support he wanted. 313 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: Here's Dr Yarimar Bonia Ramos, an expert in Caribbean politics. 314 00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 1: I think that there is a solid block of Puerto 315 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: Rican's that want statehood, that consistently vote for statehood, and 316 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: that number is increasing. What the rest of the population 317 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:11,679 Speaker 1: wants is hard to explain, hard to define. For some 318 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,679 Speaker 1: of them, it depends on what's on offer, and you know, 319 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,080 Speaker 1: it's not clear to them what the possibilities are. In November, 320 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:24,720 Speaker 1: of voters participating in a non binding referendum said they 321 00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 1: were in favor of statehood, though I should note just 322 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:32,280 Speaker 1: over half of the island's population took part in that boat. 323 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: Jennifer Gonzalez Cologne is Puerto Rico's non voting representative in Congress. 324 00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,000 Speaker 1: We cannot vote for our commander in chief. We do 325 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:47,080 Speaker 1: not have four members of Congress, yet Congress has all 326 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: power overalls. For now. Puerto Ricans living on the island 327 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: exists in a state of limbo. They are US citizens 328 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 1: and can move freely to and from the mainland, but 329 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: they can't vote in presidential elections, generally, don't pay federal 330 00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:10,240 Speaker 1: income tax, and have no voting member in Congress. Unlike 331 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:14,679 Speaker 1: Alaska and Hawaii, which became states after existing as territories, 332 00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico has remained an unincorporated US territory, a commonwealth 333 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:23,720 Speaker 1: in charge of its internal affairs, but at the mercy 334 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: of the US government when it comes to a number 335 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 1: of things, including trade, the location and use of its 336 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:35,640 Speaker 1: military basis, foreign relations, telecommunications. The list goes on as 337 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: the legal tax day. We belong to but are not 338 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: a part of the United States. We are a property 339 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 1: or a possession, and indeed, the former president asked if 340 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:48,479 Speaker 1: he could sell us, so it left kind of no 341 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,520 Speaker 1: doubt about the relationship that we have. And then when 342 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,439 Speaker 1: Hurricane Maria came and federal aid was so slow to arrive, 343 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: and we got paper towels instead of housing assistance. I think, 344 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,800 Speaker 1: you know, all of that cemented the idea that no, 345 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 1: we are not part of the fabric of the United States. 346 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:11,520 Speaker 1: Puerto Rico has been in the dark since Hurricane Maria 347 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: slammed the island last week. Of the power lines have 348 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,520 Speaker 1: been knocked out and it may be months before they're repaired. 349 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: It texted in a Brada. We get an A plus 350 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:23,320 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you what, I think We've done just 351 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:26,120 Speaker 1: as good in Puerto Rico, and it's actually a much 352 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: comfort situation. Many people feel very bad about everything that 353 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 1: happened with Trump, but there there are ways in which 354 00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:38,640 Speaker 1: the policies that he enacted were just the application of 355 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 1: the political relationship that we have. And in many ways 356 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 1: he just made clear what other politicians have just covered 357 00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: up with facades and pretty language and obscure rules and procedures. 358 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: And in fact, it was under Obama that you know, 359 00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: this revelation of our lack of sovereignty began to become 360 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: apparent with the imposition of the from Law, the Federal 361 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:09,160 Speaker 1: Oversight Board, our inability to declare bankruptcy or renegotiate our 362 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:12,000 Speaker 1: own debt. All of that happened you know, under a 363 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,200 Speaker 1: different president. So I think it's important to not pin 364 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,280 Speaker 1: it all on one president, and in some ways he 365 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: did as a favor in saying the quiet parts out loud. 366 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: Efforts for Puerto Rican statehood on Capitol Hill if move 367 00:25:28,280 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: forward and stops and Starts, and two thousand twenty one, 368 00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,920 Speaker 1: lawmakers introduced two bills aimed at changing Puerto Rico status 369 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: as a commonwealth, the Puerto Rico Self Determination Act and 370 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,280 Speaker 1: the bipartisan Puerto Rico Statehood Admission Act. As for Puerto 371 00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:50,760 Speaker 1: Rico's future, Dr Bonilla says she's optimistic. I think Puerto 372 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,000 Speaker 1: Rico in the past decade and certainly in the decade 373 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: to come, has been going through the most rapid historical 374 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: transformation in its history. The way in which they imagine 375 00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:06,520 Speaker 1: our political possibilities, I mean the fact that we topple 376 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 1: the governor and for the first time came together across 377 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 1: political divisions and have been coming together to protest austerity, 378 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: to demand increase in salary for public workers, to also 379 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 1: demand the end of gender violence and demand greater inclusivity. 380 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,960 Speaker 1: I see a Puerto Rico that is under great threat, 381 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:30,520 Speaker 1: including the threat of climate change, but I also see 382 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: a Puerto Rico that is very much invested in dealing 383 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: with those threats in new ways, and while independence is 384 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: an option, many of the experts I spoke with, including 385 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:46,240 Speaker 1: Dr Bonia and Dr Jose Attila's, say the armed independence 386 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: movements of the past have taken a back seat to 387 00:26:49,520 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: the island's main political parties. After the assassination of Filiberto 388 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: Trios in two thousand five kind of disappear. There have 389 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,000 Speaker 1: been some communityis by some branches of the Matos, but 390 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: I think we can say that they are no longer 391 00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: present nor alive. There certainly is not armed struggle to 392 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: the extent that there was in a previous era, but 393 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:22,760 Speaker 1: there are still groups that operate in the tradition of 394 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:28,159 Speaker 1: clandestine movements, who sometimes do things without necessarily, you know, 395 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,520 Speaker 1: identifying themselves. As for the man who started this whole story, 396 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: Victor Harrina is the last fugitive from the Wells Fargo 397 00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:42,240 Speaker 1: robbery case who was still at large. He remained on 398 00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:47,480 Speaker 1: the FBI's ten most Wanted Fugitives lists until two thousand sixteen. 399 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: That's thirty two years longer than any other fugitive in history. 400 00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:56,600 Speaker 1: I've asked everyone where they think Victor is and if 401 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,320 Speaker 1: he's still alive. In my interviews with members of the 402 00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:04,480 Speaker 1: much of that is I tried to kind of us, 403 00:28:04,760 --> 00:28:08,040 Speaker 1: but they never told me. I think he pretty well 404 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: could be alive. I think there was a little about 405 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:13,119 Speaker 1: anybody's mind he was in Cuba. I remember hearing he 406 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: was probably down there, you know, in Cuba with the money, 407 00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: and became a uld for the clause. I mean, you 408 00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: think there could be at Hartford right now. I mean, 409 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,840 Speaker 1: who knows where it is. He could be anywhere. Oh, 410 00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,679 Speaker 1: I think everything he knows where Victor is, or at 411 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: least I think everybody is firmly convinced that Victor is 412 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:31,840 Speaker 1: in Cuba. I mean, he was a young man at 413 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,760 Speaker 1: the time, so I don't have any reason to think 414 00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:41,000 Speaker 1: he's shuffled off this mortal coil. I asked my mache 415 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: terre source of Victor is still alive? Quote, well, he's 416 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: like ten years younger than me, so I do not 417 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 1: see why he wouldn't be end. Quote. Victor is the 418 00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,200 Speaker 1: only one I know of who carried out a seven 419 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,560 Speaker 1: million dollar robbery. You have to be trained in finance 420 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: by the Cuban government, so maybe was treated different. And 421 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,320 Speaker 1: if the health gods have been good to him. Victor 422 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 1: is still alive around sixty four and living a life 423 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: of solitude. For the most part. I do believe the 424 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,800 Speaker 1: US government, meaning the FBI and CIA, know where he is, 425 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 1: keep an eye on him, and feel at this point 426 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: it would be too big a political hot button to 427 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,520 Speaker 1: push if they grabbed him. There's still a warrant out 428 00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:27,960 Speaker 1: for Victor's arrest, as well as a one million dollar 429 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:31,800 Speaker 1: reward in the case. Maybe one day authorities will catch 430 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 1: up to him. My best guess is that he's still 431 00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: alive and living in Cuba. My hope that he managed 432 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:45,040 Speaker 1: to listen and he reaches out someday to tell me 433 00:29:45,520 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 1: his side of the story. White Eagle is written and 434 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:05,360 Speaker 1: executive produced by me Em William Phelps and I Heart 435 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 1: executive producer Christina Everett. Additional writing by our supervising producer 436 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: Julia Weaver. Our associate producer and script supervisor is Darby Masters. 437 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: Audio editing and mixing by a Christian Bowman. Our series 438 00:30:19,960 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: theme forms Regal or grand As written by Aaron Kaufman. 439 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 1: Thanks to Arlene Santana and Will Pearson at I Heart Radio, 440 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 1: and a very special thank you to Northern Light Productions, 441 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,719 Speaker 1: and Bester Cram for allowing us to use clips from 442 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,120 Speaker 1: the documentary The Last American Colony, which is available to 443 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:45,120 Speaker 1: stream on demand. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, 444 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever 445 00:30:49,200 --> 00:31:01,880 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows to bol