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Speaker 2: to I here at the volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody. I
Speaker 2: hope all of you guys are having an incredible week.
Speaker 2: As you guys know. On Monday, we sat down with
Speaker 2: Sam Vssini to do our contender rankings and we went
Speaker 2: all over the place. We ended up talking for almost
Speaker 2: three hours. We hit like seventeen different teams. Yesterday we
Speaker 2: ran part one of that list, which included a contender's
Speaker 2: one through five on my list as well as Sam's
Speaker 2: agreements and disagreements, and then I went through the four
Speaker 2: teams with thirty one plus wins that I don't think
Speaker 2: have a chance to win the title. So if you
Speaker 2: missed that, that's on our feed from yesterday. In today's show,
Speaker 2: we're running part two of that show with Samassini. We're
Speaker 2: gonna be hitting my number six through number thirteen on
Speaker 2: my contender's list, as well as Sam's agreements and disagreements.
Speaker 2: So we also got into some tactical stuff, some stuff
Speaker 2: that we would potentially see in matchups should these teams
Speaker 2: make deep playoff runs. A lot of good Hoops talk
Speaker 2: in there for you. You guys know the joke before
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Speaker 2: All right, without any further ado, let's get to part
Speaker 2: two with Sam Vessini of our contender rankings number six
Speaker 2: the Phoenix Suns for me, sure, yeah, the I you know,
Speaker 2: it's funny. I am lower on the MAVs uh trade
Speaker 2: deadline moves than you are in the sense that like
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily I guess you haven't actually said anything
Speaker 2: about their deadline moves. But I thought Phoenix's deadline moves
Speaker 2: were smart because they actually brought players into the equation
Speaker 2: that I could see playing significant roles. For instance, like
Speaker 2: I think there's a k one player. Well, so I
Speaker 2: think I think there's a universe where a Kadi at
Speaker 2: center lineup could have Royce O'Neil and Daddy is young
Speaker 2: although he was more of a buyout. He was a buyout,
Speaker 2: but like but still like I could see, like to me,
Speaker 2: Royce O'Neil is probably in their closing five, which is
Speaker 2: what makes it like, whereas with the MAVs, it's like
Speaker 2: I would probably rather have I'm we'll talk about the
Speaker 2: mass it gets a little bit tougher, so like I
Speaker 2: you know, it's interesting because they were the two teams
Speaker 2: that I thought behaved most desperately at the deadline in
Speaker 2: terms of like going to to like to make these
Speaker 2: like moves on the margins.
Speaker 3: And behind the scenes. Phoenix was like really impressive, trying
Speaker 3: to find a lot of options.
Speaker 2: For four hundred and forty minutes of Bradley Beal, Devin
Speaker 2: Booker and Kevin Durant this year. One twenty five offensive rating,
Speaker 2: one thirteen defensive rating. They've held up well enough on
Speaker 2: the glass for it not to be a problem. I
Speaker 2: like the KD at center look for specific kind of
Speaker 2: like like a curveball for a short stretch. I actually
Speaker 2: thought I was smart for them to go away from
Speaker 2: it against Sacramento when they won last week. I like
Speaker 2: what I'm seeing from Phoenix overall. I do get concerned, though,
Speaker 2: not to bring up the injury thing, but like they
Speaker 2: Beal and Booker are both susceptible to these like soft
Speaker 2: tissue injuries, which always freaked me out a little bit because, like,
Speaker 2: I think they need to be really humming on offense
Speaker 2: when they get to the postseason for this to work,
Speaker 2: and rhythm is going to be a huge part of that.
Speaker 2: And like Beale just went down with another hammy, and
Speaker 2: so I do get concerned about him getting back and
Speaker 2: actually getting into rhythm and time for it to matter.
Speaker 2: Because things really took off for the Suns this year
Speaker 2: when Beial was consistently in the lineup, and so I
Speaker 2: do believe in that group. I actually think they're just
Speaker 2: a much better version of last year's Suns team. It's
Speaker 2: just I'm concerned about whether or not they'll be in
Speaker 2: rhythm at the right time. Where do you have Phoenix set?
Speaker 3: I had Phoenix at eight, largely because of the injury question.
Speaker 3: Feels continued health is concerning Kevin Durant has a history
Speaker 3: of soft soft tissue injuries at this point that needs
Speaker 3: to be accounted for on some level and use of
Speaker 3: Nurkic has played at most fifty six games in the
Speaker 3: previous four seasons. He is currently at fifty two. We
Speaker 3: will see if he can stay healthy for the whole way.
Speaker 3: I think Nurkic has been an utterly like he has
Speaker 3: to be out there for thirty minutes plus for them
Speaker 3: or else it gets really really hard for them. I
Speaker 3: agree with you in terms of the Katie closing at
Speaker 3: the five lineups. Sometimes time can be really valuable. But
Speaker 3: in the Western Conference, where you have to deal with
Speaker 3: Carl Town's Rudy Gobert combination in the front court, you
Speaker 3: have to deal with Nikola Jokic in the front court,
Speaker 3: I think that it's going to be very difficult for
Speaker 3: them to not have Nurkic on the court. I mean,
Speaker 3: how would you even feel about a Lakers series against
Speaker 3: the Suns if they tried to go small with KD
Speaker 3: against like Anthony Davis at the five. Like, I think
Speaker 3: that's probably a bad idea for the Suns because I
Speaker 3: think it would be putting too much onto Kd's shoulders
Speaker 3: just physically in terms of wear and tear over the
Speaker 3: course of a full series in my opinion, So I
Speaker 3: really think Nurkic is essential, and I worry about his
Speaker 3: health a little bit. Biale as you mentioned, continues to
Speaker 3: go down here and there with injuries. I've only played
Speaker 3: four hundred and forty minutes together this season, and yet
Speaker 3: when they have been playing together, they have been phenomenal
Speaker 3: this year. Like, those lineups are fantastic. Grayson Allen this year.
Speaker 3: Grayson Allen is shooting fifty one forty eight eighty nine
Speaker 3: this season. Grayson Allen is going to get so much
Speaker 3: money this offseason that, uh, he's the guy that people
Speaker 3: keep not bringing up in free agency as like an
Speaker 3: option for some of these teams. Grayson Allen is having
Speaker 3: like the best like walk year marginally compared to like
Speaker 3: where everybody else was entering the season, compared to where
Speaker 3: they are now in the NBA, Like he's averaging thirteen
Speaker 3: points a game on fifty one eighty nine in a
Speaker 3: role where they desperately need him night after night after
Speaker 3: night to perform and succeed. Okay, let's talk about the
Speaker 3: questions here, Like their closing lineup, it sounds like you
Speaker 3: think is Booker, Katie Beal, Grayson Allen, and Royce O'Neil
Speaker 3: or Nurkic depending on the matchup for Royce or Grayson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think I'd go with Royce instead
Speaker 2: of Eric Gordon in their in their small ball lineups.
Speaker 2: I think that when they I think they will have
Speaker 2: bigger looks where they go Royce instead of Grayson too.
Speaker 2: Like Yusuf Nurkic, For as much as he gets criticized
Speaker 2: for his defense, like he's had some moments this year,
Speaker 2: Like I thought he was awesome down the stretch against
Speaker 2: Sacramento the other night. That's like several huge plays down
Speaker 2: He's one of those guys kind of like Jokic, where
Speaker 2: like when he's really active with his hands, especially like
Speaker 2: on the ball handler, like when he's not sitting back
Speaker 2: passively but rather more aggressive, he can actually be pretty
Speaker 2: impactful because he's a smart player. I actually get more
Speaker 2: concerned about him against Like you know why I think
Speaker 2: he's such a bad matchup against the Lakers is like
Speaker 2: Lebron can run pick and roll against him, whereas so
Speaker 2: many other teams can switch, Like he can get downhill
Speaker 2: against him, he.
Speaker 3: Can't play against the Thunder like point blank, like the
Speaker 3: Thunder would just like completely cause all sorts of issues
Speaker 3: for him in space over the course of a seven
Speaker 3: game series. But you know, do you think that the
Speaker 3: KD Booker Beale combination is just good enough to beat
Speaker 3: the Thunder?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: I think that's a completely reasonable opinion because they actually
Speaker 3: can go to the KD at the five lineup against
Speaker 3: the Thunder and not get blitzed on the defensive class.
Speaker 3: So it's The Sons are interesting. The Sons are a
Speaker 3: team that I've really come to enjoy when they've been
Speaker 3: fully healthy this season. I had the Sons below the
Speaker 3: MAVs in the Timberlves at this point.
Speaker 2: And then also the Thunder.
Speaker 3: I'm assuming, right, I I'm realizing I have the Thunder,
Speaker 3: or I have the Sons at seven, Sons at seven, Okay, gotcha?
Speaker 2: All right? My number seven is a team that I'm
Speaker 2: actually kind of sneaky high on. And I had to
Speaker 2: really temper myself because there was a there was a
Speaker 2: version of this list where they were higher, and it's
Speaker 2: the New York Knicks. And here's my reasoning. I think
Speaker 2: if a couple of things go right for them, and
Speaker 2: that's Mitchell Robinson coming back from his ankle injury, which
Speaker 2: apparently there's some optimism coming out of his camp that
Speaker 2: it's a possibility if Mitchell Robinson can come back from
Speaker 2: his injury, if Julius Randall can come back and get
Speaker 2: in rhythm in time for the playoffs. I think they're
Speaker 2: one of the most physically imposing teams in the league.
Speaker 2: The numbers coming out of their core three are insane
Speaker 2: two hundred and eighty five minutes of Randall, Brunson, and
Speaker 2: Anonoby one twenty nine offensive rating, one oh four defensive rating,
Speaker 2: and a fifty six percent rebound percentage. And before anybody
Speaker 2: brings up the talent stuff, I think personally, Jalen Brunson
Speaker 2: is a fringe superstar type of guard. Like I think
Speaker 2: he is so so, so good. I think he's let
Speaker 2: me put it this way, I think he's closer to
Speaker 2: like what people think Dame is than like the Donovan
Speaker 2: Mitchell tier. In my opinion, like I think he is.
Speaker 2: I think Jalen Brunson is freaking awesome, and I think
Speaker 2: if you give him a truly physically imposing team that
Speaker 2: can defend at an elite level, that can rebound at
Speaker 2: an elite level, and as long as Julius Randall doesn't
Speaker 2: piss down his leg when he gets to the playoffs,
Speaker 2: I think they have that type of potential. Am I
Speaker 2: too high on the Knicks? What do you feel about
Speaker 2: the Knicks?
Speaker 3: The Knicks were my clear third team in the East,
Speaker 3: for sure. I had them a little bit lower in
Speaker 3: the grand scheme of the league. I had them ninth.
Speaker 3: I have a couple of teams in the West ahead
Speaker 3: of them still, but we're not too far off in
Speaker 3: terms of where we are. If you have them seven,
Speaker 3: I have them ninth. I am generally with you that
Speaker 3: this construction of this roster really extends wits Jalen Brunson
Speaker 3: and makes him to the point where, look, I would
Speaker 3: have Donovan Mitchell in this year. But I don't mind
Speaker 3: your take there that like he is within that Lillard
Speaker 3: Mitchell grouping of players at this point, he really just
Speaker 3: kind of is. He is a fantastic, fantastic player in
Speaker 3: terms of being able to get through his spots. He
Speaker 3: decelerates exceptionally well, He's constantly on balance, he has elite,
Speaker 3: elite elite touch. He's a genuine three level scorer. In
Speaker 3: a way that you need three level scorers to consistently
Speaker 3: keep defenders off of their toes. Now, how much do
Speaker 3: you trust him in isolation versus without a ball screen.
Speaker 3: The only reason I say that is because I don't
Speaker 3: know if they have another guy on this team that
Speaker 3: can score without a ball screen. Right now, that's my
Speaker 3: one concern about this. Everything is so tied to what
Speaker 3: Jalen can do offensively, being able to create separation, being
Speaker 3: able to make the offense work. What do they do
Speaker 3: if an opposing team, you know, I'm trying to think
Speaker 3: of like in the West for instance, right like, if
Speaker 3: an opposing team is just like fuck it, We're gonna
Speaker 3: throw Kawai on him and like just go okay, like
Speaker 3: let's make this work. Or the Nuggets throw KCP on
Speaker 3: him and say let's go crazy and like completely shut
Speaker 3: it down. On top of it, teams are going to
Speaker 3: attack him on defense. That's the reality. The Calves last
Speaker 3: year had an easy spot to hide Jalen Brunson on
Speaker 3: and TIBs did that immaculately well. They spent time using
Speaker 3: the lavert Acoro et cetera grouping at the three, where
Speaker 3: they'd space that guy into the corner, use it like
Speaker 3: an attacking help defender, and they spent time with Brunson
Speaker 3: using him as like a rest defender basically to get
Speaker 3: him a blow, to be able to get some like
Speaker 3: active rest on the court. Basically. The heat also really
Speaker 3: gave him a lot of options to be able to
Speaker 3: hide on in a real way. If they run into
Speaker 3: the Celtics, there isn't a place to hide. If they
Speaker 3: run into the Bucks, there are probably places to hide.
Speaker 3: I would say, like you could hide him on Patrick
Speaker 3: Beverley and be fine. You could hide him on Andre Jackson,
Speaker 3: on Jay Crowd or whoever. But in the West, I
Speaker 3: think there are much there are many fewer places to
Speaker 3: hide on Jalen Brunson. So I agree with you. On offense.
Speaker 3: I think Brunson's a bit worse defensively than what Donovan
Speaker 3: Mitchell is and that causes a few issues for them. Schematically,
Speaker 3: they are total ass kickers if they're fully healthy. Oj
Speaker 3: A Nanobi is a stud playoff potential player. Hasn't really
Speaker 3: shown it yet in the playoffs, but like I think
Speaker 3: that that will come. I think it will happen at
Speaker 3: the highest level. Like you said, Mitchell, Robinson is kind
Speaker 3: of the key for me. I love Isaiah Hartenstein. I
Speaker 3: think he is again another one of the most like
Speaker 3: underrated impactful players across the entire league. But they need
Speaker 3: forty eight minutes of just being like total last kickers
Speaker 3: on the glass, not just twenty four, I think to
Speaker 3: be able to make a run. Honestly, if they got
Speaker 3: placed into a Bucks series right now, I really might
Speaker 3: take that.
Speaker 2: Man. Yeah, well, to put it clearly, if they if
Speaker 2: they started tomorrow, the Bucks aren't sharp enough. But for
Speaker 2: the record, they start once we get to the play.
Speaker 2: It's tricky. But like I look, man, like, I literally
Speaker 2: sit there and I think, okay, Like, if they're healthy,
Speaker 2: they have such a clear top five in the sense
Speaker 2: that it's like like like literally Dante Devincenzo has been
Speaker 2: one of the best spot up players in the league
Speaker 2: this year, and he's a good point of attack defender
Speaker 2: who brings physical ball pressure like like that Brunson, Devincenzo,
Speaker 2: og Julius, Mitchell Robinson. That's just a really good basketball team.
Speaker 2: I I that's an that's an interesting thing to put
Speaker 2: him against Milwaukee because Milwaukee is like one of those
Speaker 2: teams that's just so far from their potential at this point.
Speaker 2: But that to me is the case. It is like
Speaker 2: the case. You know, we talked about the Suns a
Speaker 2: minute ago. If the Suns started their playoff run tomorrow,
Speaker 2: they would have to beat Denver four times out of seven,
Speaker 2: and then after that they would have to turn around
Speaker 2: and beat Minnesota four times after out of seven. And
Speaker 2: then after that they'd have to turn around and beat
Speaker 2: what Oklahoma City probably four times out of seven, and
Speaker 2: then after that Clippers or the Clippers or the Clippers, yeah,
Speaker 2: most likely the Clippers. And then if they won that,
Speaker 2: they'd have to turn around and most likely beat Boston
Speaker 2: or somebody like that four times out of seven. There's
Speaker 2: just in the Eastern Conference. To your point, they're third,
Speaker 2: like in all likelihood if you're ranking the team so
Speaker 2: so like, it's really like if the Bucks don't materialize,
Speaker 2: you physically bully the Bucks, you get it done. Then
Speaker 2: you go on and it's like all we have to
Speaker 2: do is beat Boston and now we're in the finals.
Speaker 2: You know, just it just seems like a more achieva.
Speaker 3: They have a lot of ways, They have a lot
Speaker 3: of ways to cause problems schematically from Milwaukee in that series,
Speaker 3: you could throw og Nanobi onto Jannis. You could use
Speaker 3: Julius Randall to guard Brook Lopez shooting in the corner.
Speaker 3: Whatever you want to do, get late contests, et cetera.
Speaker 3: You can also then use your big Isaiah Hartenstein, Mitchell
Speaker 3: Robinson onto whoever the help defender you know, player is.
Speaker 3: You know you can't do it if it's Malik Beasley
Speaker 3: out on the court. So they probably have played Beasley
Speaker 3: in those circumstances. But if you're playing Beasley, then you
Speaker 3: have a real schematic offensive advantage on the court. So
Speaker 3: let's say it's Beasley, you put honestly, like I would,
Speaker 3: I don't know if I would put Randall on them.
Speaker 3: They run Beasley off of a lot of actions. There
Speaker 3: are different ways chematically, like you can really cause problems
Speaker 3: for them in terms of light up constructions, in terms
Speaker 3: of different things, because you have the n Andobe factor. Now,
Speaker 3: who can throw thirty minutes onto Jannis and he won't
Speaker 3: stop Jannis, but he's strong enough, physical enough to at
Speaker 3: least slightly reduce Jannis's you know, effectiveness over the course
Speaker 3: to series, especially when you have a help defender at
Speaker 3: the center position. They're waiting as well. You can just
Speaker 3: get late contests on brook Lopez Three's at that point,
Speaker 3: and you'd be pretty comfortable. I think if you're the Knicks.
Speaker 3: The more I talk about this, the more I think
Speaker 3: I would take the Knicks in a series specifically against
Speaker 3: the Bucks. Right now, I.
Speaker 2: Think I would too, But it's only because of the
Speaker 2: fact that, like there's still so much theoretical with the Bucks.
Speaker 2: But then I feel bad saying that because like, like
Speaker 2: literally the entire Knicks front court is injured right now,
Speaker 2: like all three guys, so I.
Speaker 3: Know, like it's all theoretical, like everything about this exercise.
Speaker 2: I do think you can run out of bodies, though,
Speaker 2: I think there could be a point where it's like, Okay,
Speaker 2: we have somebody that's way too small to guard o
Speaker 2: Giannanobi on him right now. Like I think they present,
Speaker 2: I think they're a difficult team to match up with physically.
Speaker 2: And by the way, Mitchell Robinson we talked about the
Speaker 2: Evan Mobley stuff, Mitchell Robinson also just kicked their ass
Speaker 2: on the offensive glass in that series. Like Mitchell Robinson
Speaker 2: is a real playoff mismatch problem for a lot of
Speaker 2: frontlines in the league. I'm just really high. I'm just
Speaker 2: really high on the Knicks.
Speaker 3: No, I'm one hundred percent with you. And by the way,
Speaker 3: that could create a real just like possession issue because
Speaker 3: the Bucks never hit the offensive class like that's your
Speaker 3: whole thing. Like they would really have to. They've been
Speaker 3: a good defensive rebounding team this year. They have been
Speaker 3: a great defensive rebounding team this year. Uh, they would
Speaker 3: really have to control the defensive glass in that series
Speaker 3: in order to win that series.
Speaker 2: And and if they're in rotation non st think like
Speaker 2: if they're like as if they can't contain at the
Speaker 2: point of attack and Jannison brook are always in help,
Speaker 2: then no one's matched up on the back line.
Speaker 3: So like thinking about it, like offensively, there you put
Speaker 3: Giannis on Julius Randall assuredly, and then you have Brooke
Speaker 3: be the help man. And then what you're then throwing
Speaker 3: like Andre Jackson, Malik Beasley, Damian Lillard on Jalen Brunts.
Speaker 2: And middle and Middleton's on Og and Og is bigger
Speaker 2: and stronger than Middleton.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they have a real look Like again, the Bucks
Speaker 3: have the two best players in that series in my opinion, Uh,
Speaker 3: that might be enough, but the Knicks have real schematic
Speaker 3: advantages against the Bucks in a series that are also let's.
Speaker 2: Just let's just call it what it is. I think
Speaker 2: Jalen Brunson's been a substantially better player this season than Dame.
Speaker 3: I agree, I agree with that whole heart.
Speaker 2: But yeah, at least two of the top three. But yeah,
Speaker 2: at the Nicks are interesting to me. I just I
Speaker 2: think they're dangerous. My number eight is the Los Angeles Lakers,
Speaker 2: and this is my last team on the tier of
Speaker 2: teams that are missing traditional championship benchmarks. But you can
Speaker 2: see the pathway for them. The case for the Lakers
Speaker 2: is pretty simple. Like I mentioned earlier, they're one of
Speaker 2: only five teams in the league that definitively have two
Speaker 2: of the top twenty players in the NBA. They are
Speaker 2: top ten in both half court offense and defense. Of
Speaker 2: something that I'm sure a lot of people are not
Speaker 2: aware of with the Lakers, they are also the third
Speaker 2: best clutch team in the league this year. They've been
Speaker 2: really good on both ends of the floor there. They
Speaker 2: have been like four different teams this year because like
Speaker 2: when they won the nd season Tournament, they were like
Speaker 2: this grinded out, defensive minded team that just like strangled
Speaker 2: games into the mud and ran everything out of the post.
Speaker 2: And then all of a sudden, like now they're like
Speaker 2: this like beautiful ball movement, player movement, five five out offense.
Speaker 2: They're like the best assisted turnover team in the league
Speaker 2: over the last fifteen games and fifth in offensive rating.
Speaker 2: But they can't guard anybody to save their lives, and
Speaker 2: they have now with Jared Vanderbilt out, they literally don't
Speaker 2: even have a single healthy point of attack defender on
Speaker 2: the roster. So but like the case for the Lakers
Speaker 2: is simple, Jared vander Jared Vanderbilt comes back, he gets healthy,
Speaker 2: he takes primary point of attack assignments the five out approach,
Speaker 2: which involves Jared Vanderbilt not standing in the corner but
Speaker 2: rather constantly moving as a screener and as a drouble
Speaker 2: handoff guy and cutting to the basket. And basically, the
Speaker 2: Lakers had turned Jared Vanderbilt into a useful offensive player
Speaker 2: right before he got hurt. He actually had like a
Speaker 2: bunch of double figure scoring games in a row. And
Speaker 2: then the case would be is that the five out
Speaker 2: offense just achieves a transcendent you know, you know, like
Speaker 2: just Lebron Anthony Davis hutting and moving without the basketball,
Speaker 2: and Austin and Di Loo just making great decisions. That's
Speaker 2: the case for it. But I do think it's a
Speaker 2: long shot, and I thought that their inability to bring
Speaker 2: in a legitimate two way athlete on the perimeter at
Speaker 2: the deadline was kind of the death knell of their season.
Speaker 2: But I still think they have an outside shot and
Speaker 2: you can kind of see it, and that's why I
Speaker 2: have them at number eight, or do you have the Lakers?
Speaker 3: I have the Lakers right now at number eleven. It
Speaker 3: looks like which is still top half of the league.
Speaker 3: Given the way their season is gone, and they are
Speaker 3: thirty and twenty six, like pretty high up. I think
Speaker 3: is reasonable to say they're what ninth in the West
Speaker 3: right now, So you know, to have them eleventh in
Speaker 3: the league is saying a lot you It sounds like
Speaker 3: you think their closing lineup right now is re Russell,
Speaker 3: Vanderbilt Lebron.
Speaker 2: Is what you would go with when healthy.
Speaker 3: I think you can get away with a lot of
Speaker 3: the like Vanderbilt, like cutting, moving, constantly, screening, rolling, everything
Speaker 3: like that a lot easier in the regular season than
Speaker 3: you can in the playoffs, when teams will essentially just
Speaker 3: play off of him. They will put the center on
Speaker 3: him and play off of him in the playoffs if
Speaker 3: you are if you have a second body to be
Speaker 3: able to do so, Like the Nuggets will just use
Speaker 3: Nicola Jokic like in the middle of the court and
Speaker 3: play off of him, right, the Clippers would just use
Speaker 3: I think I would bet you the Clippers would put
Speaker 3: Kawhi on ad and just use a Vitza Zubats like
Speaker 3: in the middle of the court as the help defender
Speaker 3: and just say, okay, Jared, run around, do your thing,
Speaker 3: like move around, that's fine. We'll just be here waiting
Speaker 3: for you at the rim, and we'll be here waiting
Speaker 3: for everybody else at the rim as well. I don't
Speaker 3: think you can close with Vanderbilt. I think Vanderbilt's a
Speaker 3: valuable player for twenty minutes a game in the playoffs,
Speaker 3: like you've shown that before. I just don't think you
Speaker 3: can close with them. I wonder if their best closing
Speaker 3: lineup is actually the three guards including Spencer Dinwitty.
Speaker 2: The case would be the fact that like, like you're
Speaker 2: just getting more just in as just a better basketball player, right,
Speaker 2: So like whatever you're giving up in terms of Jared's
Speaker 2: fight and speed and perimeter defense. You're just getting back elsewhere, Right,
Speaker 2: that's the case or Ruey?
Speaker 3: Like, maybe it's Ruey if teams, you know, if Ruey
Speaker 3: continues to knock down shots from the perimeter and you know,
Speaker 3: teams feel like they have to guard him and Ruey
Speaker 3: can match up, you know, physically with somebody, it might
Speaker 3: be Ruey. Actually, Like this is a wild thing to say,
Speaker 3: but like I kind of think their best line up
Speaker 3: is going to be Reeves, Russell, Reui starter and that's
Speaker 3: not yeah, something that I'm like wildly enthused about necessarily.
Speaker 3: Either can they guard anybody at the point of attack
Speaker 3: if they run into the MAVs? Like, can they defend
Speaker 3: either of Luca or Kyrie?
Speaker 2: No, I mean they can't. Like for the record, Like
Speaker 2: what bothers me the most about it from a management
Speaker 2: perspective is this was abundantly clear as a fall as
Speaker 2: a flaw in the Nuggets series last year, Like they
Speaker 2: just they didn't have it was like, oh, we don't
Speaker 2: have anybody at the one, two or three that has
Speaker 2: good size, good athleticism and is a and is a
Speaker 2: plus player on both ends. Of the floor, like they
Speaker 2: did not have a single player. They had all off
Speaker 2: season to figure it out, They had all season to
Speaker 2: figure it out, and they just literally did not even
Speaker 2: come up with a single option. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: they ditched Dennis Schroeder, which in my opinion, like if
Speaker 2: the alternative was Gabe Vincent, I'd rather have Dennis Schroeder.
Speaker 2: So like, like it just it. I don't understand why
Speaker 2: they never addressed it. But I mean that said, like,
Speaker 2: here's the thing, why is it such a big deal
Speaker 2: for the Lakers and not for the Bucks? And I
Speaker 2: understand that the Bucks have a better record, but the
Speaker 2: Bucks have also played a substantially easier schedule and are
Speaker 2: playing in a conference with a lot of teams at
Speaker 2: the bottom where you can pile up some easier wins.
Speaker 2: I actually think in bigger games this year, the Lakers
Speaker 2: have actually fared about as well as Milwaukee has. So
Speaker 2: like that's that would be My counter to that case
Speaker 2: is like why are we giving Milwaukee that leeway but
Speaker 2: not the Laker? Like why is it that we go like, oh,
Speaker 2: Damon Giannis, what don't they just figure it out? But
Speaker 2: we can't just say Lebron James and Anthony Davis and
Speaker 2: a bunch of offensive skill can't figure it out, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 3: Because the Bucks have brook Lopez as an interior defender,
Speaker 3: you know, mixed with their ad defensive in Yannis, as
Speaker 3: opposed to the Lakers, who have you know, throw the
Speaker 3: hands up and just like question marks like across the
Speaker 3: board on the interior as a secondary defender. Vanderbilt is
Speaker 3: a fantastic, fantastic defender. I don't mean to like completely
Speaker 3: disparage him. He's a better point of attack like aggressive
Speaker 3: defender than he is, Like he can scramble around and move,
Speaker 3: but like he tends to be like pretty over aggressive
Speaker 3: I think in scramble situations and in help situations and
Speaker 3: like kind of gets lost a little bit. So like
Speaker 3: to me, that's actually the difference. It's like the backing
Speaker 3: of having brook Lopez there in addition to their you know,
Speaker 3: ad in Yannis. I think that they can It's hard
Speaker 3: to say the Bucks can stand on defense when they
Speaker 3: haven't stood on defense this year for a single second
Speaker 3: of the season, but like I do think that schematically
Speaker 3: it makes a little bit more sense for them to
Speaker 3: be able to do so, and they're just more physical.
Speaker 3: You know. One of the reasons that like I think
Speaker 3: think it's like absolutely insane DEVI the Lakers ahead of
Speaker 3: the Thunder at this point is the way to beat
Speaker 3: the Thunder is to like be an absolute ass kicker
Speaker 3: going toward the ram uh finishing at the basket, but
Speaker 3: also like crashing the offensive last being aggressive that way.
Speaker 3: Do you know the worst offensive rebounding team is in
Speaker 3: the NBA right now, the Lakers, the Los Angeles Lakers.
Speaker 2: Transition and they had a bad transition defense. They had
Speaker 2: to stop crashing.
Speaker 3: And they have to like that's the thing against That's
Speaker 3: actually like a big piece of why I think that
Speaker 3: the Thunder people bring up the defensive rebounding side of it,
Speaker 3: and maybe we should. I assume you have the Thunder next.
Speaker 2: I have them at ten actually, but to me, like,
Speaker 2: to me, there the tears are all kind of like
Speaker 2: jammed up.
Speaker 3: But okay, we'll talk about the Thunder when we get
Speaker 3: to the Thunder. But I'll kind of give my case
Speaker 3: on why the like defensive rebounding thing is worrisome, but
Speaker 3: not like potential death now might worry is just purely
Speaker 3: point of attack defense with the Lakers and being able
Speaker 3: to construct two way lineups like it's actually quite similar
Speaker 3: to the Pelicans in a lot of ways. The advantage
Speaker 3: that the Lakers have and why they should be ahead
Speaker 3: of the Pelicans in my opinion, is that they have
Speaker 3: Anthony Davis. He is arguably the best two way player
Speaker 3: in the league this season, and Anthony Davis should be
Speaker 3: top three in defensive Player of the Year on equivocally,
Speaker 3: so far, I think he has been fantastic on that end.
Speaker 3: Beyond that, Lebron has not been awesome on defense this year.
Speaker 3: He's I think that, like there have been moments where
Speaker 3: he's brought it, but like he's not been great. The
Speaker 3: advanced numbers because he pairs a lot of his minutes
Speaker 3: with a D are like pretty okay, and like forgiving
Speaker 3: to Lebron on that end, but like generally so I
Speaker 3: think he has not been great and like attentive on
Speaker 3: that end. Austin Reeves has not been very good on defense.
Speaker 3: The Angela Russell has not been very good on defense.
Speaker 3: Ruey is you know still space CANETI off the ball
Speaker 3: in a way that is concerning that they just don't have,
Speaker 3: you know, Cam Reddish Camp offense at a level that
Speaker 3: you need to in the playoffs. Spencer Dinwitty sneakily. I
Speaker 3: know that it hasn't been a great offensive season for him.
Speaker 3: I actually thought that, like he took on a lot
Speaker 3: of difficult assignments for Brooklyn this season, Like nobody paid
Speaker 3: attention to Brooklyn because they were like the most milk
Speaker 3: toasted basketball team on planet Earth prior to the deadline.
Speaker 3: But like Spencer, for like people who said like Spencer
Speaker 3: was like quiet quitting the nets, he were like he
Speaker 3: had to fight every night against like an opposing team's
Speaker 3: good offensive player when they were running out Cam Thomas.
Speaker 3: Like he had to do more than what I think
Speaker 3: people gave him credit for. Now, he hasn't had a
Speaker 3: great offensive season. I'm not gonna sit here and like
Speaker 3: defend Spencer dinwitdi. I do wonder if you know, six
Speaker 3: foot six can at least like hold up in those
Speaker 3: matchups a little bit better certainly than Reeves than Russell have.
Speaker 3: I mean, like it's like damning with faint praise, but
Speaker 3: like I think Spencer might actually be really helpful for them.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love the people. Yeah, I loved I loved
Speaker 2: Spencer the Lakers just because he like at the very
Speaker 2: least for nothing, he brought in a much much better
Speaker 2: athlete to the guard position than what the Lakers had.
Speaker 2: And Lakers fans are all like Max Christie and Cam Reddish,
Speaker 2: They're all high on them. I think I think Cam
Speaker 2: Reddish is bad and I think that Max Christie is
Speaker 2: too young, so like, I'm not as high on them.
Speaker 2: I will say this, like, because you know, I know
Speaker 2: that you have both the Thunder and the MAVs over
Speaker 2: the Lakers in large part because they don't have guys
Speaker 2: to throw at those two perimeter options for both teams,
Speaker 2: I am not as worried about that for one very
Speaker 2: simple reason. I think Lebron James and Anthony Davis would
Speaker 2: rip through the MAVs in Thunder front lines for Evans
Speaker 2: straight games. I think they would just obliterate their front lines. Like,
Speaker 2: I think it would be an utter physical ass kicking
Speaker 2: in the front lines in the same way that Shay
Speaker 2: and Jalen and Luca and Kyrie would kick the ass
Speaker 2: of the Laker perimeter players and so like to me,
Speaker 2: I think it's I think I think people are a
Speaker 2: little low on the Lebron ad front line as a
Speaker 2: playoff duo. Just In general, I think again. You pointed
Speaker 2: it out. Lebron James in the N Season Tournament was
Speaker 2: the that was the only time he tried on defense
Speaker 2: this year. I can state that as someone who's watched
Speaker 2: the team very closely, like the Lakers are a lot
Speaker 2: better than their record would indicate. As a matter of fact,
Speaker 2: they went three and ten in the first thirteen games
Speaker 2: after the N Season Tournament and blew a bunch of
Speaker 2: games against atrocious teams, like truly bad teams that they
Speaker 2: just went out, didn't play hard and lost to. So
Speaker 2: like I my thing is like any case for the Lakers,
Speaker 2: for me falls apart when they run into teams that
Speaker 2: are big and have the advantages on the on the perimeter.
Speaker 2: So like for me, the Lakers, I get scared about Minnesota,
Speaker 2: I get scared about Denver. I even get scared about
Speaker 2: the Clippers a little bit because of the fact that
Speaker 2: Kauhi can bang with Lebron, and because of the fact
Speaker 2: that Zubac has always given ad issues just in terms
Speaker 2: of like shoving him under the basket, getting offensive rebounds,
Speaker 2: just hold like he just physically overwhelms a d sometimes.
Speaker 2: So like to me, I'm way more worried about the
Speaker 2: Lakers against the big teams like you and I argued
Speaker 2: about this on the phone. I would pick the Lakers
Speaker 2: over the Thunder and the MAVs in a playoff series.
Speaker 2: I just think they'd obliterate them on the front line.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we'll talk about that when we get to the MAVs.
Speaker 3: I think the MAVs, I think the mass front line
Speaker 3: is a little bit better than what people think. So
Speaker 3: with the with the addition with one particular edition. But look,
Speaker 3: I agree with you that, like people are way underrating
Speaker 3: the idea of Anthony Davis and Lebron James together. There's
Speaker 3: a reason that they were as successful as they were
Speaker 3: in the Ncason Tournament, right, Like they can really play.
Speaker 3: When they decide to turn it up for like a real,
Speaker 3: you know, set of games, it's gonna be hard. Like
Speaker 3: dealing with those two is a handful. They can really
Speaker 3: really defend when they want to defend, and they are
Speaker 3: great offensively. Having to do it from where they're gonna
Speaker 3: have to come from is my issue kind of similar
Speaker 3: to what you said with was it was It Phoenix.
Speaker 3: I believe you know, we're talking about the Knicks in
Speaker 3: terms of like third seed or whatever. Right like, they're
Speaker 3: gonna have to do it against the timber Wolves and
Speaker 3: the Gobert a D or the Gobert Towns front line.
Speaker 3: Then they're probably gonna have to do it against you know,
Speaker 3: whoever the hell finishes four or five. It could honestly
Speaker 3: be Denver in the four or five matchups, So you
Speaker 3: might have to do it against Denver again, and they
Speaker 3: have no shot against Denver in my opinion, And then
Speaker 3: you might have to do it against the Clippers where
Speaker 3: zoobots is gonna go against them. Right Like, coming from
Speaker 3: the eight seed the seventh seed is a substantial, substantial
Speaker 3: problem I think for the Lakers again and again and again,
Speaker 3: just having to get up for Lebron for two months
Speaker 3: straight of playoff basketball against teams where they don't have
Speaker 3: a schematic advantage because of how bad their perimeter point
Speaker 3: of attack defense is totally fair.
Speaker 2: And by the way, like I was as soon as
Speaker 2: they couldn't address that d like you know what's funny,
Speaker 2: I was actually way higher on them going after Bruce
Speaker 2: Brown the Dejonte Murray this deadline, Like had they gotten
Speaker 2: Bruce Brown, I would have been all over the Lakers
Speaker 2: because I just think that that I'm a big believer too.
Speaker 2: This is one of my overarching basketball philosophies. Like we
Speaker 2: talked about this earlier with Jamal Murray and like winning impact.
Speaker 2: I'm a big believer in like even a limited player
Speaker 2: that is great at a thing you're bad at as
Speaker 2: a team can be monumentally important for your basketball team.
Speaker 2: It's just something I've seen time and time again. It's
Speaker 2: something that I believe very strongly. And so number nine
Speaker 2: and this is my last tier of teams. These are
Speaker 2: all law shots to me. So these are all teams
Speaker 2: where like I just I would be really surprised if
Speaker 2: they won. But they have just like specific things each
Speaker 2: of them have, like that one big thing for me
Speaker 2: that's like, yeah, you can't write them off because of this.
Speaker 2: And Number nine for me is the Golden State Warriors.
Speaker 2: The reason is simple, you can't write them off because
Speaker 2: of Steph Curry. He's playing incredible as of late. The
Speaker 2: Steph Curry, Draymond Green, Andrew Wiggins, John I Thin kaminga
Speaker 2: foursome in two hundred and forty six minutes this year.
Speaker 2: It has a one to twenty offensive rating and a
Speaker 2: one oh four defensive rating. They have been bad at rebounding,
Speaker 2: but that's been kind of an issue regardless of their
Speaker 2: lineups as of late. Their main concerns they're late in games.
Speaker 2: Their offense just goes from being this like beautiful ballplayer
Speaker 2: movement to just Steph Curry running around chasing his own shot,
Speaker 2: which I think I think is as much as I
Speaker 2: love Stephan as much as I love Steve Curry, I
Speaker 2: think it's bad process. I think they I think that
Speaker 2: has actually led to diminishing turns in a lot of ways,
Speaker 2: and I think they have more options than what they've demonstrated. Also,
Speaker 2: I'm higher on their defensive issues that they've had as
Speaker 2: of late, Like their crunch time defense has been really
Speaker 2: bad and it's cost them in a lot of these games.
Speaker 2: But I think it's schematic, not personnel based, Like they're
Speaker 2: really overhelping a lot right now. It's a major thing
Speaker 2: that I'm noticing, where like if a guy has a defender,
Speaker 2: or if a guy has an offensive player on his
Speaker 2: hip and he's like tracking him and driving with him
Speaker 2: to the basket and instead of just letting him force
Speaker 2: him into a tough contested layup at the rim or
Speaker 2: anything other than an easy kickout. They're just all converging
Speaker 2: on the basketball and giving up these wide open shots. So, like,
Speaker 2: I think they can be a lot better than what
Speaker 2: they have been. It's an extreme long shot because they
Speaker 2: just don't have any offensive production outside of Steph Curry
Speaker 2: that's consistent, especially within a playoff lens. But like you
Speaker 2: can kind of see it's like Steph Curry's top five
Speaker 2: player in the world. They have a ton of athleticism
Speaker 2: now that they've been going to Kamena and Wiggins in
Speaker 2: the front line. Like that's the long shot. Where are
Speaker 2: you at with the Warriors?
Speaker 3: Pad The Warriors at number nine, so we're not far
Speaker 3: off on that. Over the last month, the team with
Speaker 3: the fourth best net rating in the NBA seven point seven,
Speaker 3: the Golden State Warriors. They've really found something with this
Speaker 3: Jonathan kaminga Draymond Green front court. I think that has
Speaker 3: really really been impactful for them. Basically removing Kevon Looney
Speaker 3: from the lineup has been valuable. But the problem for
Speaker 3: them is that they're going to run into teams that
Speaker 3: have real bigs where they have to play Kevon Looney
Speaker 3: and they have to play Draymond Green with Kevon Looney
Speaker 3: in all likelihood, Like, you can't just run out. I
Speaker 3: think that where they have found success is in situations
Speaker 3: that probably aren't that applicable to the teams that they're
Speaker 3: going to have to play in the playoffs. If they
Speaker 3: play the Nuggets as the seventh seed, they have to
Speaker 3: play Kevon Looney thirty minutes a night or else, Like,
Speaker 3: what are you gonna put Draymond Green on Nikola Jokic? Like,
Speaker 3: I love, love, love Draymond Green, but I don't feel
Speaker 3: great about that matchup. I just don't. I'm sorry. It's
Speaker 3: really hard to play five out against the Nuggets because
Speaker 3: the Nuggets are better than you at playing five out.
Speaker 3: If they play the Timberwolves, you have to play Kevon Looney,
Speaker 3: I think, Like, at the end of the day, I
Speaker 3: think that you're gonna have to do that. So I
Speaker 3: worry about what the playoff schematics look like as much
Speaker 3: as anything. Like, the Warriors have been great with this
Speaker 3: smaller lineup. But do you think, and this is a
Speaker 3: real question for you, do you think that this smaller
Speaker 3: lineup can find success in the playoffs consistently? Because if
Speaker 3: you look at the teams that they've beat recently, it's
Speaker 3: like seventy six ers if I remember correctly, that was
Speaker 3: the game where Joellen be got hurt. Right, So, like
Speaker 3: they blew the doors off of them, beat the Nets,
Speaker 3: beat the Hawks, beat the Grizzlies, you know, beat the
Speaker 3: Pacers with like a reduced Tyres Halliburton, beat the Jazz twice,
Speaker 3: beat the or lost of the Clippers, right or no,
Speaker 3: they lost to the Hawks, I'm sorry, but then like
Speaker 3: lost to the Lakers, lost of the Kings. Like the
Speaker 3: good teams they've played over the course of this month,
Speaker 3: for the most part, they have struggled to beat them.
Speaker 3: And I wonder if it's like a schematic thing where
Speaker 3: teams with real size they forced them away from the
Speaker 3: Kaminga Draymond look can cause them real issues, and that
Speaker 3: those actual problems haven't been addressed and been fitted.
Speaker 2: I have a feeling that some of this is regular
Speaker 2: season you know success as well, stemming from like just
Speaker 2: lessons that we've learned over the years. Like to me,
Speaker 2: Jonathan Kaminga, I've been so impressed by Jonathan Kaminga as
Speaker 2: like a long term prospect and like he's won me
Speaker 2: over this year in a lot of ways. Like I
Speaker 2: really think defenders struggled to handle him one on one,
Speaker 2: which is like a which is a which is like
Speaker 2: a legitimate thing that you can build a career off of,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. But his jump shot after
Speaker 2: being red hot during that hot streak has gone way
Speaker 2: way way down and he does struggle that now Now
Speaker 2: teams are starting to throw multiple bodies at him, And
Speaker 2: this is what I've been saying over that whole stretch.
Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, John Kamina is playing really really well.
Speaker 2: But you get to the postseason, everything is about exposing
Speaker 2: your weaknesses. They're going to find a way to. Like
Speaker 2: the big one with Kaminga is like if you throw
Speaker 2: late help after he puts the ball on the floor,
Speaker 2: he is turnover prone, and so that's a big one.
Speaker 2: And then the other one too is just in off
Speaker 2: ball situations you can just straight up play off of him,
Speaker 2: like he's not a guy that you necessarily have to
Speaker 2: worry about out there, and so that puts you in
Speaker 2: a situation where you basically don't have a reliable secondary
Speaker 2: shot creator. I'm less worried about the I'm less worried
Speaker 2: about the defensive configuration as a pertin to Looney because
Speaker 2: I think the I think Looney has been so bad
Speaker 2: this year that whatever athletic advantages you gain in rotation
Speaker 2: by just being faster are are more important than whatever
Speaker 2: size you get from Kevon Looney. I think Kevon Looney,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know if it's because he's
Speaker 2: still kind of young, like he's not that old, Like
Speaker 2: I don't understand what it is with him, but he
Speaker 2: just has not been as useful this year as he
Speaker 2: as he was in previous years. Like I I would
Speaker 2: lean more on speed and be like, we just got
Speaker 2: to be a team that's excellent in rotation against these
Speaker 2: teams that are too big for Draymond to handle one
Speaker 2: on one in the front line. But like, here's the
Speaker 2: bottom line, though, as you put it, like there's a
Speaker 2: reason why I have them in my long shot tier,
Speaker 2: why you have them at number nine is like there's
Speaker 2: just teams that are way better than them at the
Speaker 2: things that they do, And it's really that simple.
Speaker 3: The more we talk through this, the more I think that,
Speaker 3: like I should probably have the A eleven, not nine.
Speaker 3: Like the fact that they haven't beaten anybody during this stretch.
Speaker 3: I kind of like thought about it a little bit
Speaker 3: more toward like they've been successful. I've really liked this group,
Speaker 3: but like in terms of playoff success, I actually truly
Speaker 3: really think that you need SI, Like you need somebody
Speaker 3: to match up with Nikole Jokich, you need somebody to
Speaker 3: match up Carl Towns, you need somebody to match up
Speaker 3: with like anybody else that Like, even I think they
Speaker 3: deal well with the Pelicans, like I think they deal
Speaker 3: well with Zion, but like like Yonah's would cause them
Speaker 3: some problems. I think on the front line, the Yonahs
Speaker 3: Zion combination would cause them some problems. I think in
Speaker 3: the front line, I just I don't think they've solved it.
Speaker 3: I really don't. In terms of when teams they have
Speaker 3: too many gaps that you can attack. I really respect
Speaker 3: how hard you know, Brandon Pajemski plays on the ball,
Speaker 3: and like I really are off the ball, and I
Speaker 3: really respect his basketball IQ Like he's like kind of
Speaker 3: a necessity for them as a secondary creator a lot
Speaker 3: of the time, and teams are gonna attack him on
Speaker 3: the ball, like pretty regularly. On defense, I don't think
Speaker 3: that they're gonna find an answer defensively for this at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, And if they do find
Speaker 3: an answer for it defensively, like if Kevon can figure
Speaker 3: out whatever's going on there, and if Andrew Wiggins can
Speaker 3: come back to like this world which he hasn't benep it,
Speaker 3: yeah in recent weeks. Yeah, I still think that they
Speaker 3: have too many mismatch issues on the defensive end to
Speaker 3: where teams are gonna be able to take advantage of them. Like, Okay,
Speaker 3: like what you would like to do against Minnesota is
Speaker 3: you'd like to play a big against Carl Towns and
Speaker 3: then have Draymond guard Rudy Gobert and then help off
Speaker 3: of Draymond like on the or use Draymond as the
Speaker 3: help defender on Towns, drives on Town's post ups, force
Speaker 3: him into tough decisions and be able to attack that way.
Speaker 3: You can't really do that with like Jonathan Kaminga. You
Speaker 3: can't put him on Carl Towns. Towns will bury him
Speaker 3: on the block, which means you then have to put
Speaker 3: Draymond on Towns, and I think Draymond would annoy the
Speaker 3: shit out of Carl Town's But like then you're putting
Speaker 3: Rudy Gobert on You're putting Jonathan Kaminga on Rdy Gobert,
Speaker 3: and they'll just spam one five ball screens with Mike
Speaker 3: Conley and Gobert, and for his athletic as Kaminga is,
Speaker 3: he can't out high point Gobert. And then if you
Speaker 3: do that, you're then helping off of towns, probably with
Speaker 3: the tag defender in Draymond, in order to try and
Speaker 3: shut that down. And then you're leaving towns open, and
Speaker 3: then you're in scramble situations where you have Anthony Edwards
Speaker 3: setting up in a scramble situation right where he can
Speaker 3: attack a scramble bent defense. I think they're coming from
Speaker 3: too far away, is where I'm at right now. I
Speaker 3: think the Warriors are coming from too far away from
Speaker 3: where they are to be able to really truly contend.
Speaker 2: Right, and Kaminga and Gobert opens up even more defensive
Speaker 2: rebounding issues, which has been just a huge problem as
Speaker 2: even that dominant lineup that Wiggans, Kminga, Draymond Curry, for
Speaker 2: some they have not rebounded well. They've been a bad
Speaker 2: defensive rebounding team. It's like you watch the Jazz game
Speaker 2: and it's like they keep getting stops, but just guys
Speaker 2: are flying in and getting rebounds over them, and then
Speaker 2: it's like they finally get a stop at the end
Speaker 2: of the Clippers game and no one boxes out Russell
Speaker 2: Westbrook and they he comes flying in and he like
Speaker 2: they just that that to me. Like I actually, again,
Speaker 2: I'm higher on their defensive potential than you are. But like,
Speaker 2: like the defense, the rebounding piece, I don't know that
Speaker 2: that can be fixed. All Right, we're gonna do We're
Speaker 2: gonna do one more in depth and then we're gonna
Speaker 2: move quick through the end. So number ten, I have
Speaker 2: the Oklahoma City Thunder. So my my, my Thunder pessimism.
Speaker 2: And I've said this a million times, and I have
Speaker 2: to say it as a disclaimer just because of the
Speaker 2: way that sometimes people act in the way that the
Speaker 2: internet is. Yes, uh, I love everything about this Thunder team.
Speaker 2: I love Shay. I've been super high on him for
Speaker 2: a long time. Jalen Williams was talking about him this morning.
Speaker 2: He had a couple of nasty step back threes the
Speaker 2: other night against god who was it, I can't even remember,
Speaker 2: but I was. I was watching him, you know. You know,
Speaker 2: he's actually been the second best pull up jump shooter
Speaker 2: in the league this year, Like minimum two hundred attempts.
Speaker 2: There's like forty four guys. James Harden's number one, Jalen
Speaker 2: Williams is number two. He's getting like one point one
Speaker 2: point eight points per pull up jump shot. It's completely
Speaker 2: outrageous and like and he's like just got that in
Speaker 2: combination with real downhill force. I love Chet. I love
Speaker 2: not just how good he is now, but what his
Speaker 2: potential is and what his demeanor is like and his competitiveness.
Speaker 2: Lou Dort's one of my favorite three and D players
Speaker 2: in the league. Huge thunderfan. This is just simply based
Speaker 2: on my overarching basketball opinions, which is our book philosophies,
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it. In my opinion, if
Speaker 2: you are small and young, you're not gonna win in
Speaker 2: the late phases of the NBA playoffs, specifically, last year's
Speaker 2: conference finalists final four teams all four, we're top eleven
Speaker 2: in defensive rebounding at twenty twenty two. The MAVs, Warriors,
Speaker 2: and Heat were all top ten. The Celtics were fifteenth
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one. All four conference finalists we're all in
Speaker 2: the top eleven in defensive rebounding percentage. I think a
Speaker 2: big part of it is when you get into that phase,
Speaker 2: kind of like we saw in the Cavs Nicks series
Speaker 2: last year, those physical advantages actually just get over emphasized
Speaker 2: when you get to that point. There's a reason why
Speaker 2: no rebounds, no rings is a saying. It's actually a big,
Speaker 2: big version of why I have some skepticism surrounding the Clippers.
Speaker 2: In my opinion, the Clippers are just a better version
Speaker 2: of the Thunder. I know they don't play schematically the
Speaker 2: exact same way, but in terms of the way that
Speaker 2: they're constructed as like these kind of two way perimeter players,
Speaker 2: I just think Kawhi and Paul George are better versions
Speaker 2: of that than Shay and Jalen are, especially at this
Speaker 2: phase in their careers. So like I really like Oklahoma City,
Speaker 2: I would be as Barrings, some sort of weird thing
Speaker 2: where like Shaye decides he doesn't want to be in
Speaker 2: the Thunder anymore and demands a trade. I don't think
Speaker 2: that the Thunder are going to go through this era
Speaker 2: without winning a title. I think they're going to. I
Speaker 2: think they're too good, not too I just to me
Speaker 2: in a field this stacked, I would just be so
Speaker 2: surprised if this super young, super small team somehow ended
Speaker 2: up with the trophy at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: tell me why I'm wrong, Sam.
Speaker 3: Okay, So look, I say this as somebody who had
Speaker 3: the Thunder at like seven or eight or something like that, right,
Speaker 3: So I am not drastically higher on the Thunder than
Speaker 3: where you are for this season's playoffs. The highest I
Speaker 3: think you can reasonably get them right now is probably
Speaker 3: fifth or so. I think they are a total ass
Speaker 3: kicking team on offense and on defense. They bring some
Speaker 3: real schematic point of attack issues that cause also problems
Speaker 3: in terms of half court execution. On top of that,
Speaker 3: they are the best transition team in the NBA. Now,
Speaker 3: I typically don't love transition basketball in the playoffs. I
Speaker 3: think it is much more difficult to execute than just
Speaker 3: being an elite level half court execution offense. Having said that,
Speaker 3: with the Thunder, where the transition adeptness helps is if
Speaker 3: you decide that you want to try and attack the
Speaker 3: offensive glass against the Thunder and you want to go
Speaker 3: for that, they're going to kill you in transition even
Speaker 3: in the playoffs. Like if you decide, hey, we're the Lakers,
Speaker 3: we want to crash with ad we want to crash
Speaker 3: with really just ad I guess Lebron as well, would
Speaker 3: be your idea. If I'm the Thunder, I'm saying, be
Speaker 3: my guests, we're still gonna get probably sixty five percent
Speaker 3: of those, like, even if we're the worst defensive rebounding
Speaker 3: team in the league. Will probably like, even if we
Speaker 3: like go even worse than the worst defensive rebounding team
Speaker 3: in the league and we get sixty five percent of
Speaker 3: the offensive or the defensive rebounds and you're crashing multiple guys,
Speaker 3: we're gonna beat you in transition more than you're gonna
Speaker 3: beat us on the offensive class. So I would invite
Speaker 3: that if I'm them. Now, the question with the Lakers,
Speaker 3: the question with teams that like can really get downhill
Speaker 3: rim pressure is what will Chet look like in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: I think Chet is an outstanding competitor. I think Chet
Speaker 3: is somebody whose mentality is going to translate exceedingly well
Speaker 3: toward the playoffs. I worry a little bit in terms
Speaker 3: of foul trouble in the playoffs for Chet. If he
Speaker 3: gets into foul trouble, what is their combo breaker? What
Speaker 3: is their counter? They don't really have one question mark Uh,
Speaker 3: it's going to be entirely reliant on Chet being able
Speaker 3: to play thirty five minutes a night in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: And I say that thinking Chet is their third best player,
Speaker 3: but he is probably their second most important player in
Speaker 3: terms of playoff success, behind Shay. Now part of my
Speaker 3: thunder optimism compared to your being a thunder hater, which
Speaker 3: is what I will be referred to you as from
Speaker 3: now on, Jason Uh, I think Shay is an absolute dude,
Speaker 3: and I think he is going to be able to
Speaker 3: wreak havoc on opposing teams, and in part the reason
Speaker 3: for that is you have to guard them. Now, five
Speaker 3: out the big underrated unsung trade edition that a team
Speaker 3: made at the deadline if he can be healthy, is
Speaker 3: Gordon Hayward. Because previously, what teams have done to kind
Speaker 3: of gum up the works for Oklahoma City on offense
Speaker 3: is play your center on Josh Giddy and then be
Speaker 3: able to try and filter toward the help in the
Speaker 3: middle and then leave Josh Giddy literally wide open from three.
Speaker 3: That's the way that teams have had success against them
Speaker 3: this season. With Gordon Hayward, you cannot do that. He
Speaker 3: will kill you from three. He will beat you as
Speaker 3: a shooter from distance, and he's bigger than Isaiah Joe,
Speaker 3: which was their other like combo breaker counter whatever you
Speaker 3: want to call it. Isaiah I think is a smart defender,
Speaker 3: but he's somebody that you can attack a little bit
Speaker 3: too often on defense. With Hayward, I think that you're
Speaker 3: not going to be able to attack him as much,
Speaker 3: which leads to a circumstance where they can play genuine
Speaker 3: five out offense, force all sorts of issues as you're
Speaker 3: trying to stay in front of Shay Gilges Alexander, who
Speaker 3: is the best paint touch guy in the NBA right now.
Speaker 3: I think you would probably agree with you.
Speaker 2: He can beat people off the dribble.
Speaker 3: He can beat anybody in the NBA off the dribble.
Speaker 3: Then on top of it, you have Jalen Williams, who
Speaker 3: I think is still underrated league now. I don't think
Speaker 3: people understand what Oklahoma City has in Jalen Williams. This
Speaker 3: is not like your run of the mill like potential
Speaker 3: second star. At some point he is going to be
Speaker 3: an all NBA.
Speaker 2: Right, it was you that gave me that, right, Yes,
Speaker 2: I'm going to.
Speaker 3: Yet he is like Jimmy Butler for this coming era.
Speaker 3: He is in huge, he is physical, He's six foot
Speaker 3: six with seven foot two wingspan. The biggest thing, though,
Speaker 3: is he's a genuine three level scorer. How many teams
Speaker 3: right now can you point to that have too legitimate
Speaker 3: elite and I would say Jalen is in maybe not
Speaker 3: like elite of the elite, but he's damn clos three
Speaker 3: level scorers right now. I would not say Yiannis is
Speaker 3: a three level scorer. I would not say Anthony Davis
Speaker 3: is a three level scorer. I would say that the
Speaker 3: Nuggets certainly have multiple three level scorers. I would say
Speaker 3: the Clippers have three.
Speaker 2: Levels even and Paul George don't get to the rim
Speaker 2: the way that Shane Jalen do.
Speaker 3: One hundred percent. That ability to constantly pressure the defense
Speaker 3: from multiple angles, I think is enormous. You can constantly
Speaker 3: pressure the defense from multiple angles on the court from
Speaker 3: all three levels while having three other additional guys on
Speaker 3: the court that are spacing the court. I think they're
Speaker 3: actually an impossible guard in the playoffs if they don't
Speaker 3: have to play Josh Giddy.
Speaker 2: It's totally reasonable. I loved the Gordon Hayward Edition. If
Speaker 2: for nothing else, I'm just excited to watch Gordon Hayward
Speaker 2: play in big playoff games. I don't know about you,
Speaker 2: but I feel like we haven't gotten nearly enough of that,
Speaker 2: especially after what he was like in college, specifically with Shay.
Speaker 2: You and I had an argument on the phone the
Speaker 2: other day, and I want I wanted to kind of
Speaker 2: get that on the record here. So basically what I
Speaker 2: said to Sam on the phone.
Speaker 1: And you think he's James No, So I use James
Speaker 1: Harden as a cop at to make an example about
Speaker 1: playoff defense, but I'll accept it.
Speaker 2: So basically, this is this is what I said to Sam.
Speaker 2: For the record, I do not think Shae is going
Speaker 2: to be James Harden. But one of the things that
Speaker 2: happened to James Harden is he was a guy that
Speaker 2: had the basketball in his hands a lot and did
Speaker 2: a lot of attacking, specifically from the same angles on
Speaker 2: the floor out of ball screens and an isolation. And
Speaker 2: one of the things I noticed with James Harden is
Speaker 2: he was a guy that was gifted at beating people
Speaker 2: off the dribble, but was not a supreme athlete at
Speaker 2: his position, which is what I would describe Shay to
Speaker 2: me is a very good athlete, but he is not
Speaker 2: Anthony Edwards. Okay, he doesn't bring like incredible force to
Speaker 2: the position. He is shifty with the way that he
Speaker 2: beats people off the dribble, amazing with change of pace
Speaker 2: and footwork and all the like kind of week. He's
Speaker 2: got kind of like a weird old fashion game in
Speaker 2: a lot of ways with his ability to beat people
Speaker 2: off the dribble with hesitations in and outs, and he's
Speaker 2: really good at protecting the basketball while making aggressive moves.
Speaker 2: But what happened with James Harden is by game five,
Speaker 2: by game six, by game seven of a series, an
Speaker 2: elite perimeter defender would see his dribble package and see
Speaker 2: his hesitation moves dozens and dozens and dozens and dozens
Speaker 2: of times, and he just wouldn't be able to get
Speaker 2: as much separation as the series progressed. All I'm saying
Speaker 2: is I am curious to see Shay in his first
Speaker 2: playoff series as a number one option, simply because he
Speaker 2: is a guy that relies a lot on change of pace,
Speaker 2: hesitation type of stuff to beat people off the dribble.
Speaker 2: I'm cure to see if we see an elite perimeter
Speaker 2: defender not solve him, but figure out a way to
Speaker 2: kind of slow him down a little bit. I'm just
Speaker 2: curious to see it. I personally think that Shay will
Speaker 2: eventually solve that himself in his career. Even if he
Speaker 2: does encounter that problem, I just think he's way better then.
Speaker 2: I think he will be way better than James Harden
Speaker 2: ever was. But I just think, and that almost feels
Speaker 2: mean to say, with how good James Harden was at
Speaker 2: his prime, but I want to say I believe in
Speaker 2: Shae long term. I'm just curious to see if there
Speaker 2: will be an adjustment period with him as it pertains
Speaker 2: to playoff basketball.
Speaker 3: Here's my counter to that. James Harden never had a
Speaker 3: mid range game that was nearly the level that Shay's
Speaker 3: mid range game is. Shay is shooting something like fifty
Speaker 3: two to fifty three percent from between ten and twenty
Speaker 3: three feet right now. So even if you do stay
Speaker 3: in front of him, were Harden struggled was deciding Okay,
Speaker 3: I'm just going to step back in the mid range
Speaker 3: and find a way into that shot. He had to
Speaker 3: get all the way to the rim, he had to
Speaker 3: rely on fouls right, Shae has the body mechanics and
Speaker 3: that shiftiness to be able to stop and pop in
Speaker 3: the mid range and be able to just shoot over
Speaker 3: the top of its tough He can create high yish
Speaker 3: not super high, but like high ish efficiency looks from
Speaker 3: the mid range in a way that James Harden really
Speaker 3: couldn't at the end of the day. And I think
Speaker 3: that it's much harder to sit on Shay's moves in
Speaker 3: that way, particularly knowing that with Harden it was okay,
Speaker 3: I either need to sit on the step back or
Speaker 3: I need to be ready to stop him at the rim,
Speaker 3: and we need to have second body coming over. With Shae,
Speaker 3: it's I have to be available for the step back. Three.
Speaker 3: I have to be available basically at every single step
Speaker 3: along the line toward him driving to the rim. I
Speaker 3: have to be ready that he he's going to stop
Speaker 3: and pop ahead of me. And I think that that
Speaker 3: makes it a lot more difficult to guard him than
Speaker 3: what it was to guard James in the playoffs at
Speaker 3: the end of the day, when you had seven games
Speaker 3: to adjust, throw different looks at him, throw different counters
Speaker 3: at him, and on top of it, seriously, like Jayalen
Speaker 3: Williams is waiting on the second side once the defense
Speaker 3: is bent, and he can score from all three levels too.
Speaker 3: He's a fifty. I think he's shooting like fifty four,
Speaker 3: forty five, eighty two or something right now, So like
Speaker 3: he's a one eighty shooter on the other side, just
Speaker 3: in a different, you know, mechanical way that he's going
Speaker 3: about it in terms of the numbers. So, man, I
Speaker 3: think this is a really good team, dude, I think
Speaker 3: that it really does. I think your points are entirely
Speaker 3: valid about what do they look like in terms of
Speaker 3: the physicality. If Check can't stay on the floor, they
Speaker 3: have a real chance to lose in the first round.
Speaker 3: That is a fact of the matter. If he proves
Speaker 3: that he can stay on the floor, I think they
Speaker 3: can make finals. Like, to me, the swing is all him,
Speaker 3: and I don't know the answer to that yet. I
Speaker 3: don't think anybody does. In terms of the way that
Speaker 3: like his game will be officiated as much as anything, like,
Speaker 3: I trust the person, like the human being to bring it.
Speaker 3: I'm just really interested to see the way he's officiated
Speaker 3: in the play.
Speaker 2: I'm excited to see what happens. To be clear, I'm
Speaker 2: rooting for them. This is not this is not a
Speaker 2: negative like thunder type of take. It's just it's just
Speaker 2: I am I think this kind of work to my
Speaker 2: detriment sometimes, but I lean heavily out my basketball philosophies
Speaker 2: and they just kind of it layed into some of
Speaker 2: those boxes. So I I do want to do a
Speaker 2: little bit of a deeper dive on this particular team,
Speaker 2: my number eleven, which is the Dallas Mavericks. So I'm
Speaker 2: assuming the front court player you're really high on is
Speaker 2: Daniel Gafford. I like Daniel Gafford. I think he falls
Speaker 2: a little bit into the the like I think he's
Speaker 2: better than this player for the record, but I I
Speaker 2: to me falls a little bit into the Montreze Harald
Speaker 2: type of tear, where like, he's an incredible role man
Speaker 2: who finishes on a catching rolling to the rim really well,
Speaker 2: but I get concerned about him as a pick and
Speaker 2: roll defender in particular.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that I think is reasonable And.
Speaker 2: To the point that I was trying to make about
Speaker 2: the Suns earlier, like there's a case to be made
Speaker 2: that Derek Lively is actually their best option at center.
Speaker 2: There's a case to be made that Josh Green is
Speaker 2: actually a better, you know, option for them to use
Speaker 2: as kind of like a perimeter versatile forward than a
Speaker 2: you know, than a PJ. Washington, even though he's undersized.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a case to be made that some
Speaker 2: of the guys they brought back in the deadline aren't
Speaker 2: necessarily even in their closing five. I am curious. I
Speaker 2: I you know, I hate that our only film I
Speaker 2: wanted to watch film and it's like the only film
Speaker 2: we get is the damn Spurs game, which just they're
Speaker 2: so easy to guard because because of their lack of
Speaker 2: legitimate ball handling. But I have them as my long
Speaker 2: shots for one very simple reason. And actually had a
Speaker 2: question earlier. Someone gave me three teams, and I want
Speaker 2: to say it was like the Helicans, the MAVs, and
Speaker 2: then I can't remember their last team was, But I
Speaker 2: said the MAVs had the best chance to win out
Speaker 2: of that group because to me, Kyrie Irving and Luka
Speaker 2: Doncic are just two of the best half court shot
Speaker 2: creators in the playoffs that you could have, and so
Speaker 2: if they can find a way to defend and compete
Speaker 2: on the glass, well enough and they've been a bad
Speaker 2: defensive rebounding team this year as well. But if they
Speaker 2: can find a way to contend in those areas, I
Speaker 2: just think it's foolish to count those guys out, and
Speaker 2: that's why I have them as long shots. But you're
Speaker 2: way higher on the MAVs, so make the case.
Speaker 3: They will enter every series with a reasonable case that
Speaker 3: they have the best player in the series outside of Denver.
Speaker 3: I think I would take Nikola Jokic over all of
Speaker 3: these guys. But like if you were drafting playoff games
Speaker 3: and playoff lineups, I might take Luca third, like I
Speaker 3: really might, given what he has been able to do
Speaker 3: in the playoffs. He has been unstoppable every time that
Speaker 3: he has hit the highest level of NBA caliber competition.
Speaker 3: Now you look at the schematics around it, I actually
Speaker 3: really like the way that this roster is built. From
Speaker 3: that perspective, I wouldn't have given up a first round
Speaker 3: pick for PJ. Washington, but he does create some flexibility
Speaker 3: for them lineup wise that I think is intriguing for
Speaker 3: what I'll talk about momentarily, they now just have a
Speaker 3: lot of different bodies that they can throw out there.
Speaker 3: They have Tim Hardaway junior. If you want like the
Speaker 3: high volume three point scorer. They have Josh Green, who
Speaker 3: I think is a really interesting body that they can
Speaker 3: throw out there athletically on defense, who I don't know
Speaker 3: if you can leave him open from three anymore. That
Speaker 3: was kind of what I thought you would do in
Speaker 3: a place for years ago, like he's yeah, he's been
Speaker 3: consistent the last like a year and a half to
Speaker 3: where like I kind of think you might not be
Speaker 3: able to leave him totally open. I really loved the
Speaker 3: minutes that Dante exem gave them. We'll see what happens
Speaker 3: with Dante. He has the knee injury. He hasn't played
Speaker 3: in what like three or four weeks. It feels like
Speaker 3: now if he's there, I think that he gives them
Speaker 3: another option then in the front court. I agree with
Speaker 3: you that in the playoffs that Derek Lively I think
Speaker 3: is probably their best option, right because you can do
Speaker 3: multiple things with him in ball screens at the end
Speaker 3: of the day, whereas with Gafford, you really have to
Speaker 3: play drop, you really have to fight over the top,
Speaker 3: and their guards Luca and Kyrie are not necessarily built
Speaker 3: to fight over the top. If you are a team
Speaker 3: that has two creators that you can trust. You'll have
Speaker 3: you know, Josh Green, whoever reguarded the point of attack right,
Speaker 3: Dante Exam as well, Derek Jones Junior potentially for minutes
Speaker 3: as well. Like, but if you have the second creator
Speaker 3: that you trust to be able to get real opportunities,
Speaker 3: that's where you make Luca and Kyrie fight over the
Speaker 3: top in gafferd screens, and that's probably gonna lead to
Speaker 3: open opportunities and looks. So I'm with you. I think
Speaker 3: it's probably Lively that's gonna have to play. But they
Speaker 3: have forty eight minutes now if they want it of
Speaker 3: elite level rim protection and Lively in Gafford, that's the
Speaker 3: difference between Gafford in Tres In my opinion, Gafford is
Speaker 3: at least like a very good rim. He's got more length,
Speaker 3: he contests, He has more length, and he contests everything
Speaker 3: like he off into his detriment in terms of defensive rebounding,
Speaker 3: like he chases everything in terms of contesting at the basket,
Speaker 3: So teams are gonna miss against them. And I think
Speaker 3: it's actually a little bit easier for him to chase
Speaker 3: everything when you have Luca crashing in to clean up
Speaker 3: on the defensive glass because of how good of a
Speaker 3: defensive rebounder Luca is. Now, Like you still need to
Speaker 3: get a body on guys, you still need to be
Speaker 3: able to create things that way, but Luca is so
Speaker 3: good in the playoffs. Kyrie is also incredible in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: And I think that his season is really gone under
Speaker 3: the radar because he's missed so many games already to
Speaker 3: where he's not going to be eligible for all NBA.
Speaker 3: Kyrie right now is averaging twenty six on forty nine
Speaker 3: forty one A so good and nobody is talking so good.
Speaker 3: He has like a four and a half to one.
Speaker 3: He's like a four to one a sis turnover ratio
Speaker 3: right now. Like Kyrie has been unbelievable this season, like
Speaker 3: to a ridiculous, ridiculous degree. I think there's like almost
Speaker 3: a case where if you're the Suns, would you rather
Speaker 3: have Luca and Kyrie or Devin Booker and Kevin Durant
Speaker 3: given how good Luca has been this season.
Speaker 2: Man, that's a tough question. I uh I. I've it's
Speaker 2: always annoyed me with all the conversations surrounding Kyrie, irving
Speaker 2: that like he's awesome at basketball, isn't brought up more
Speaker 2: like like because he is incredible. He's incredible, And like
Speaker 2: I do think a lot of people Galaxy brained that
Speaker 2: situation in the sense that, like like the COVID stuff.
Speaker 2: Totally understand why everyone was frustrated that was super annoying
Speaker 2: the year before when he just left his family or
Speaker 2: left the team to go be with his family or
Speaker 2: whatever the hell he was doing. Totally understand what he
Speaker 2: did to Cleveland, Totally understand what he did to Boston,
Speaker 2: Totally understand what happened at the end of Brooklyn was
Speaker 2: super obvious. He had a falling out with the front
Speaker 2: office and he wanted a new deal. That was what
Speaker 2: he was trying to do. So like, I was pretty
Speaker 2: pretty certain that he would be focused when he was
Speaker 2: in Dallas for that specific reason, and when he's in
Speaker 2: a situation where the contract isn't hanging over his head,
Speaker 2: and you know, I have a feeling that, at least
Speaker 2: within the context of this season, that that was never
Speaker 2: going to be an issue. And he's been awesome, I do.
Speaker 2: What's I get a little worried about Dallas with who
Speaker 2: their best five is, So like if I'm if I'm Dallas. Obviously,
Speaker 2: we talked about Derek Lively as the five. To me,
Speaker 2: I kind of lean Josh Green for more physical matchups,
Speaker 2: maybe at Tim Hardaway Junior against teams where you really
Speaker 2: need more shoot, But that four spot is the interesting
Speaker 2: one to me. Would you would you rather go with
Speaker 2: like a guy like Derek Jones Junior who's like a
Speaker 2: really solid perimeter defender who's actually been a decent kind
Speaker 2: of like weak side kind of slasher off the wing
Speaker 2: and has done some good stuff for them offensively, or
Speaker 2: would you go with PJ Washington at the four.
Speaker 3: There it's matchup dependent, and it's dependent on how serious
Speaker 3: PJ like takes defensive attention to detail, because that's always
Speaker 3: been the issue with him and Charlotte. It's just like
Speaker 3: the attention to detail, the transition defense, the willingness to
Speaker 3: like consistently fight like gaming Gabriel, He's a very skill
Speaker 3: he The answer should be PJ like.
Speaker 2: Very what the team wants. I'm assuming, right'.
Speaker 3: It's what the team wants, and it's what I would want.
Speaker 3: It's what I think everybody in the league should want.
Speaker 3: PJ needs to prove that it can be PJ. In
Speaker 3: my opinion, if he really it's it's up to PJ
Speaker 3: Washington if he is there closing four or Frankly, another
Speaker 3: situation that was very useful for Charlotte in the past
Speaker 3: when PJ was in his second season and was like
Speaker 3: a little bit more engaged, was playing PJ at the five.
Speaker 3: This is kind of the other thing that I think
Speaker 3: is a little bit interesting about Dallas what their moves
Speaker 3: did at the deadline, is it allowed them to play
Speaker 3: big with Lively and Gafford for forty eight minutes at
Speaker 3: the five spot, or it allowed them to go small.
Speaker 3: You can downsize and you can go like Maxi Kleba,
Speaker 3: PJ Washington at the four or five, and you can
Speaker 3: still have like requisite size intelligence out there with Maxi.
Speaker 3: Hopefully Maxie knocks down threes and hopefully Maxi like stays healthy.
Speaker 3: He's had issues with that of obviously over the course
Speaker 3: of the last couple of years. But you have a
Speaker 3: lot of different front court lineup variations to where if
Speaker 3: you need to shut down, if you need to switch
Speaker 3: ball screens and shut down things, you can go PJ
Speaker 3: and Maxie at the four and the if you want
Speaker 3: to play drop or something like that. PJ is not
Speaker 3: going to be good at drop, but you can have
Speaker 3: Maxi rotating over from the weak side and at least
Speaker 3: be like a presence there as a good, intelligent, tall,
Speaker 3: high end defender, and then you go five out around Luca.
Speaker 3: Luca likes having the lob threat. He likes having the
Speaker 3: downhill body that can also like gortat screen for him
Speaker 3: as he's like navigating the paint and everything. But like
Speaker 3: their optionality in the front court, like some of these
Speaker 3: other teams, I think they don't have enough options, Like
Speaker 3: Phoenix does not have enough options around their stars to
Speaker 3: be able to get the most out of their stars
Speaker 3: if something goes on a wire right Oklahoma City, to
Speaker 3: an extent, they fixed it with Hayward a little bit,
Speaker 3: but largely they don't have enough optionality behind Chet if
Speaker 3: something was to go wrong, or like if they were
Speaker 3: counting on Josh Giddy to play like twenty five minutes
Speaker 3: a game the playoffs. Right Dallas to me actually has
Speaker 3: optionality because they have two way players. PJ is an
Speaker 3: entirely theoretical two way player in my opinion, but there's
Speaker 3: a chance that he could be that he's shown the
Speaker 3: wherewithal to do it, especially in on ball settings in
Speaker 3: the past, Josh Green can be a two way player.
Speaker 3: If you get a hot shooting night from Derek Jones Junior,
Speaker 3: he could be a two way player for a night.
Speaker 3: Dante exem has been like a pretty solid two way
Speaker 3: player throughout the course of the season. And then you
Speaker 3: have Gafford and Lively, both of whom are two way
Speaker 3: players in the context of what Dallas asks them to
Speaker 3: do within their offense, being a screen role rim run guy,
Speaker 3: being screen role rim run guys. Whereas these other teams
Speaker 3: I think are inflexible. I actually think Dallas is a
Speaker 3: little bit more flexible in how they can surround their
Speaker 3: stars with talent and let those guys be great.
Speaker 2: I wonder if you could run some like Josh Green
Speaker 2: PJ Washington liba front court looks where you do more
Speaker 2: switching to like that's always been a big one for me,
Speaker 2: that defensive versatility piece. And I will say I will
Speaker 2: say I have been really impressed by the job that
Speaker 2: front office has done since last year massively increasing the
Speaker 2: athletic profile of the team, because like they were not
Speaker 2: athletic last year and now it's like between Derek Jones junior,
Speaker 2: Josh Green I think is a really good athlete at
Speaker 2: the position. But even Jim Hardaway, for all of his flaws,
Speaker 2: he can move, you know, like he maxically but is
Speaker 2: a is a very mobile big guy. PJ. Washington very mobile,
Speaker 2: Derek Lively very mobile, Daniel Gafford very mobile. Like they
Speaker 2: all of a sudden have a lot of to your point,
Speaker 2: it's a lot of guys who theoretically could be good defensively,
Speaker 2: and that's what kind of gets you to the situation
Speaker 2: where you can kind of see a path, which is like,
Speaker 2: as long as Jason Kidd kind of touched the right
Speaker 2: notes about who those other three guys are depending on
Speaker 2: the matchup, as long as Luca and Kyrie bring the
Speaker 2: requisite superstar shot creation, you have a chance to beat
Speaker 2: really anybody. You've You've definitely raised my opinion of the
Speaker 2: MAVs through this conversation, but I'm not surprised you've done
Speaker 2: that before. Let's go quickly through these last bits of our.
Speaker 3: Hold on real quick to finish Dallas. Where do you
Speaker 3: think I have Dallas ranked right now in this thing?
Speaker 2: I'm gonna guess that you have them at six behind Milwaukee.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have them five five five, I have them.
Speaker 3: I have them ahead of Minnesota.
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow.
Speaker 3: I think that they cause real schematic problems for Minnesota
Speaker 3: in terms of yeah, you throw Jaden McDaniels on Luca,
Speaker 3: probably that's your goal, But okay, then you're going to
Speaker 3: force Anthony Edwards to guard Kyrie for minutes upon minutes
Speaker 3: upon minutes in that series, and that feels like a
Speaker 3: real issue. And then they can throw multiple big bodies
Speaker 3: out there at Carltown's and Rudy Gobert if they want to.
Speaker 2: Next two weeks Phoenix, Indy, Cleveland, and Boston on Dallas's schedule,
Speaker 2: So we're we're going alearn a lot. One other thing
Speaker 2: with Dallas, it's made them impossible for me to evaluate.
Speaker 2: They've had sixteen different guys start games from this year
Speaker 2: they've had They've had eleven different guys start at least
Speaker 2: five games for them this year. So like, it's been
Speaker 2: really difficult for me to get a read on the
Speaker 2: team just because they've had constant guys in and out
Speaker 2: of the lineup. You make some really good points about
Speaker 2: the matchup with Minnesota in particular. You know what's interesting too,
Speaker 2: Last thing I'll say about it. You had talked about
Speaker 2: like the Lakers coming from the seven seed, and I
Speaker 2: in general don't think there's an easy matchup anywhere in
Speaker 2: the West. From the same point of like, like let's
Speaker 2: say you're the one seed. Yeah, if you're the one seed.
Speaker 2: If you're let's say that the Timberwolves run away with it,
Speaker 2: they get the one seed, Like, you're probably gonna have
Speaker 2: to face Golden State or the Lake in the first round.
Speaker 2: Like that's not an easy matchup, you know, Like you're
Speaker 2: not going it's not easy, but you're not going into
Speaker 2: that matchup saying like you're not going into that matchup
Speaker 2: like it's easy. Okay, So you win, you you play
Speaker 2: the winner of Denver Phoenix, you know, and then like
Speaker 2: if you win that, you play the winner of Okay,
Speaker 2: see the Clippers. So like, I don't really look at
Speaker 2: seating as as as as important. It's more just the
Speaker 2: home court advantage piece I think is a big differentiator.
Speaker 2: But yeah, like I agree with you, like, like the
Speaker 2: maps are going to present some real matchup problems for
Speaker 2: teams just just with the sheer amount of looks that
Speaker 2: they can go with. That's a really interesting take. I
Speaker 2: at number twelve had the Miami Heat. I love the
Speaker 2: Miami Heat, But once again, I think they're a great
Speaker 2: upset candidate for teams that are flawed. I think they're
Speaker 2: a good championship like security station, where like, if you
Speaker 2: don't get through Miami, you're clearly not a championship contender anyway,
Speaker 2: because like they'll just expose you for the sh you're
Speaker 2: bad at. I love the Delon Wright pick up. I
Speaker 2: think that's a guy that can help them. I do
Speaker 2: think they'll get more out of Terry Roseier god willing,
Speaker 2: if hell his knee can get right, I do think
Speaker 2: they'll get more out of him than what they've gotten.
Speaker 2: But I do think there's a little bit of a
Speaker 2: good status bad team thing going on with Terry Rozier,
Speaker 2: at least as an offensive shot creator, which which I
Speaker 2: think you've seen some of the early returns of this
Speaker 2: year with Miami. I just again just don't think they
Speaker 2: have the firepower. But I do think they've got the
Speaker 2: capability of upsetting anybody just simply on the strength of Spolstra,
Speaker 2: Jimmy Bam and some of the backcourt athleticism that they've added.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I also have the heat and am ready
Speaker 3: for people to come back to this in two months
Speaker 3: and just be like.
Speaker 2: What they did it again?
Speaker 3: They did it again. Uh, Like, look, if they play
Speaker 3: the Bucks in a two seven matter or like they're
Speaker 3: not going to finish seventh, but like if they finish,
Speaker 3: you know, if the Bucks fall to the four seed
Speaker 3: and they're the five seed or something like that, if
Speaker 3: they play the Bucks in the first round and that's
Speaker 3: Spulture against Doc Rivers in that like MESSI Bucks team,
Speaker 3: that would be the best outcome.
Speaker 2: That would be the peak outcome for this season.
Speaker 3: I really like kind of want it to happen, if
Speaker 3: I'm being honest. And look, I know they're in seventh
Speaker 3: in the East right now, so like I should say
Speaker 3: that they could finish seventh in the East, I guess,
Speaker 3: but like I think they finish ahead of man Indiana
Speaker 3: could get healthy and like go on a bit of
Speaker 3: a run. They're only you know, two and a half
Speaker 3: games back of Philadelphia right now. We'll see what Philadelphia
Speaker 3: ends up being coming down the stretch here. If they
Speaker 3: get to the six and Milwaukee ends up the three
Speaker 3: or something like that, that could be just like really
Speaker 3: really fun.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, it'ld be amazing. Number thirteen I had
Speaker 2: the Philadelphia seventy six ers, and it's just it's all
Speaker 2: theoretical based on like what if Embiid comes back and
Speaker 2: just kicks everyone's ass, Like that's always like an outcome
Speaker 2: that you have to write rank them.
Speaker 3: Where would you rank them if Joel was healthy?
Speaker 2: I think if I remember correctly, after right around the
Speaker 2: time that the Denver game went down, I think I
Speaker 2: had them like fifth if I remember correctly. Again, my
Speaker 2: take on Embiid is really simple. I think if he
Speaker 2: stays healthy, and I mean in the long run, that
Speaker 2: he will have a breakthrough playoff run. I think he's
Speaker 2: too talented, not too Yeah, it's just a question of
Speaker 2: when he could figure those things out. And I do
Speaker 2: think health has played a role. I think it's been
Speaker 2: a combination of him leaning a little bit too much
Speaker 2: on the jump shot in postseason settings and then two
Speaker 2: in him not being able to hit it when he
Speaker 2: gets there, and then the health I think has been
Speaker 2: a legitimate issue for him. But in terms of the
Speaker 2: six Ers overall, I look at it like I do
Speaker 2: think that Tyres Masey it's a lot to ask for
Speaker 2: him to be the second best player on a championship
Speaker 2: team in this phase of his career, and I run
Speaker 2: into a little bit of like a do they having
Speaker 2: a firepower type of discussion? Would they be able to
Speaker 2: weather a Joel embiide clunker, you know, in a big
Speaker 2: moment that you know is something that he's has the
Speaker 2: potential to kind of deal with. And really, ever since
Speaker 2: Jimmy Butler has been out of the equation, I haven't
Speaker 2: felt like they've had that type of guy, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean. And so I'm high on the Sixers
Speaker 2: in the long run. I thought that Daryl Moray did
Speaker 2: a really nice job with the James Harden trade. I
Speaker 2: was actually surprised with how much he got back, not
Speaker 2: just in usable players, but also in just draft compensation.
Speaker 2: And I thought Daryl Mory did a really good job there.
Speaker 2: I think they're poised for another big move to kind
Speaker 2: of address some of their firepower issues in the long run.
Speaker 2: But like to me, even if they were fully healthy,
Speaker 2: I would have had him pretty far down on this list.
Speaker 2: But under the circumstances, the idea of Embi coming back
Speaker 2: for the end of the year, just getting in rhythm
Speaker 2: and time to kick everybody's but just felt like a
Speaker 2: long shot to me.
Speaker 3: How many playoff games do you think Tyre s Maxi
Speaker 3: has played so far career?
Speaker 2: Gosh, I'm gonna guess. Was he even in the rotation
Speaker 2: two years ago? He was? Okay, I'm gonna say twenty five.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's played thirty five playoff games already, So he's
Speaker 3: played like half a season in the playoffs. Like I
Speaker 3: wonder if we might be under looking and underrating like
Speaker 3: his comfort level in the playoffs already. Obviously, like up
Speaker 3: until last season, it was a different role. But you
Speaker 3: know what, each of the last two seasons where he's
Speaker 3: played forty minutes a night, he's averaged twenty one points
Speaker 3: a game in the playoffs. And his like that second year,
Speaker 3: that twenty twenty two year, he shot forty eight thirty
Speaker 3: eight ninety four on twenty one points a night in
Speaker 3: the playoffs. I think ty Rees might be fine in
Speaker 3: the playoffs. Is where what I'm getting at here. If
Speaker 3: he's able to not be the number one, if he's
Speaker 3: able to be the number two behind Joell. I love
Speaker 3: the Buddy Heeled edition for them. If Joe else healthy,
Speaker 3: it creates so many problems for opposing teams on the
Speaker 3: backside of those empty side pick and roll actions they
Speaker 3: like to run with ty Reese. If you just put
Speaker 3: Buddy in the corner of those actions, most teams like
Speaker 3: to pre rotate from the corner in order to help
Speaker 3: those in order to help on the empty side roll.
Speaker 3: If you put him in the corner, your team can't
Speaker 3: pre rotate. That means you're pre rotating from the wing,
Speaker 3: which means that then you're able to kick to the
Speaker 3: wing in all likelihood, and then you have either the
Speaker 3: corner man lifting, which is Buddy's guy, or you have
Speaker 3: top of the key that's helping, which is just an
Speaker 3: easy reversal, and then you're basically back into the action
Speaker 3: again with one more pass. Right, So like it flows
Speaker 3: into itself really well. And that's even just like not
Speaker 3: accounting for you could do some fucking wild stuff with
Speaker 3: like Joel and Buddy and like five two ballscreen like
Speaker 3: slip actions. Right, you could do some crazy stuff with
Speaker 3: like Maxi healed speed action, like you could run some
Speaker 3: like twenty one actions where like Buddy is you know,
Speaker 3: you're running like empty side with Buddy like ghosting in
Speaker 3: just like the wing, Like you could just do so
Speaker 3: so much, you could do exactly right, you could do
Speaker 3: so so much with them. I think that Buddy is
Speaker 3: a real schematic addition for them in a playoff setting,
Speaker 3: in my opinion, even with the defensive liabilities that he
Speaker 3: brings to the table, I just don't trust that Joelle
Speaker 3: is going to be healthy enough to see any of it.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately. I'm really high on Tyres Maxy. I think he's
Speaker 2: the probably the best combination of speed in shooting ability
Speaker 2: that we have in the league right now. I'm a
Speaker 2: huge I'm a huge believer in him in the long run.
Speaker 2: His efficiency did tank quite a bit last year. That
Speaker 2: was the one thing that kind of got me a
Speaker 2: little bit worried about him, and like we've seen even
Speaker 2: just for stretches this year where he can go cold.
Speaker 2: I am a big believer in Tyree. I just think
Speaker 2: I think it's a lot to ask for a guy
Speaker 2: in his first year being the number one and by
Speaker 2: the way, to me, number two option doesn't mean as
Speaker 2: much when you factor in the fact that he's gonna
Speaker 2: get the number one perimeter defender, like he's going to
Speaker 2: get the best perimeter defender that the other team has
Speaker 2: to offer. I am, I again, just huge believer in
Speaker 2: Tyres Maxie long run. But like, guys, just think of
Speaker 2: it like this, he's Tyler Harrow's age, He's Jordan Poole's age.
Speaker 2: Like he's young, he's got there's there, there's there's something
Speaker 2: to be said about about like if there's if there's
Speaker 2: been a theme that you guys have picked up for
Speaker 2: me on this today's show. It's like Jason hates the youth.
Speaker 2: But I I am a believer in Tyree's long run.
Speaker 2: In the long run, I am a believer that Joel
Speaker 2: Embiide will eventually break through. Just doesn't feel like this
Speaker 2: is going to be the year. So is there anybody
Speaker 2: that's the end of my list? Is there any team
Speaker 2: that you had on your list that I didn't have?
Speaker 3: No, the end of my list too.
Speaker 2: I just the teams we discussed earlier.
Speaker 3: Talked about the cas. Yeah, we've talked to everybody yet. Cool.
Speaker 2: All right, Well two and a half hours later, is
Speaker 2: gonna have to He's gonna have to cut this into
Speaker 2: multiple episodes for sure, multiple episodes. It's fine, but I appreciate. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we shouldn't even thank each other for this. We should
Speaker 2: just thank Paul for listening to us for the last
Speaker 2: two and a half hours. Thank you guys so much
Speaker 2: for supporting the show. Sam. Can you please shout out
Speaker 2: your work. Sam does amazing work for the Athletic.
Speaker 3: Go to the Game Theory podcast over on YouTube. Go
Speaker 3: to the Athletic Keep Me Employed over there. That's you
Speaker 3: know all we got nothing too crazy.
Speaker 2: Let's how about you and I plan on doing a
Speaker 2: playoff preview at some point when we get closer. Is
Speaker 2: that something? Because I love talking matchups with you. I
Speaker 2: think that'd be fun.
Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, man, anytime.
Speaker 2: All right, guys, As always, we appreciate you for supporting
Speaker 2: the show. I am taking every minute off until Warriors
Speaker 2: Lakers on Thursday night. I will see you guys for
Speaker 2: an instant reaction. Then we appreciate you guys. Will see
Speaker 2: then
Speaker 1: The volume